Outta My House with Martha Plimpton

Summary

Dear Chelsea – "Outta My House with Martha Plimpton" (October 16, 2025)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Dear Chelsea, Chelsea Handler and co-host Catherine Law are joined by acclaimed actor and activist Martha Plimpton. The show follows its classic advice format, fielding listener questions about relationships, boundaries, reproductive rights, and family. The episode’s core theme explores personal autonomy—whether in romantic relationships, family dynamics, or politics—with Martha Plimpton sharing frank insights about her career, her commitment to being "self-coupled," her activism, and her take on navigating life’s challenges.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Catching Up, Personal Updates, and Boycotting Big Business

[03:32 – 08:28]

• Chelsea checks in with Catherine, who shares an anecdote about her dog in Spain and reflects on civil disobedience regarding dogs on the beaches.
• Discussion on recent protests, especially the "No Kings" movement (Chelsea mentions a link will be in episode notes).
• Catherine announces a personal boycott of Home Depot and Lowe’s for collaborating with ICE and for privacy concerns.
  • "No one that lives in my house is going to be purchasing anything from Home Depot." (Guest/Caller, 05:45)
  • Both hosts emphasize buying locally and shrinking reliance on big corporations, referencing Neil Young’s call to action.

2. Welcoming Martha Plimpton: Acting, Relocation & Life Changes

[08:28 – 15:44]

• Chelsea likens Martha’s energy to her own: "You kind of remind me of myself. ... Ever since I saw you, that’s my personality right there." (Chelsea, 08:38)
• Martha discusses her role in HBO’s "Task":
  • Praises working with Mark Ruffalo: "He’s the loveliest, funniest, most dear guy. ... Just a great, great human being." (Martha, 09:57)
  • On her approach to roles: "It’s all in the writing, really. ... When you’re working with a guy like Mark or any of these terrific actors, it just feels very, very natural." (Martha, 11:02)
• Chelsea confides about being stuck in LA’s real estate limbo—echoed by Martha preparing to leave New York, her lifelong home:
  • "I’m selling my house in Brooklyn. ... It’s very heavy to know that you’re disconnecting from your hometown. It’s very jarring." (Martha, 13:13)
  • Martha is moving to London for a change of pace, craving kindness and civility she feels has vanished from NYC.

3. Reflections on Independence, Aging & Relationships

[19:08 – 21:43]

• Martha describes herself as "self-coupled":
  • "I’m in a committed relationship with myself." (Martha, 19:22)
  • Celebrates her single life, cherishing solitude and autonomy:
    • "I’m really happy. I don’t want anyone in my house farting, taking up space..." (Martha, 19:28)
    • On female independence after 50: "Anyone who gets divorced or isn’t in a relationship at this age is almost so turned off by the idea of it." (Chelsea, 20:02)
• Candid conversation on women’s sexuality, self-sufficiency, and the pleasure of embracing one’s own company.

4. Martha’s Past Relationships, First Love & Coping With Loss

[21:43 – 23:06]

• Martha recounts her young relationship with River Phoenix:
  • "You just love the person that you’re with. And, you know, I still love him. I miss him every day." (Martha, 22:21)
  • Emphasizes cherishing the experience rather than focusing on tragedy.

5. Upcoming Projects: "East of Eden" & Reimagining Classics

[23:06 – 26:57]

• Martha stars in a new "East of Eden" limited series alongside Florence Pugh and a star-studded cast.
  • Lauds Zoe Kazan’s adaptation: "She’s just done an incredible job adapting this thing...focusing really, on the whole entire life of Kathy." (Martha, 23:21)
  • Shares awe at discovering the novel’s depth: "It’s gotta be...my favorite American novel." (Martha, 23:25)
  • Filming took place in New Zealand.

6. Good and Evil, Forgiveness, and Setting Boundaries

[26:57 – 28:39]

• Philosophizing about whether people are "born evil," referencing public figures and parental influence.
  • "Are you good at forgiving people who have wronged you?" – "I’m good at forgiving people up to a point...But then when that line gets crossed...I say sayonara." (Martha, 27:43)
• Both Martha and Chelsea stress the importance of personal boundaries in friendships and relationships.

7. Bodily Autonomy: Abortion & Trans Rights

[28:40 – 34:19]

• Martha on the intertwined fight for abortion and trans rights:
  • "They’re completely intertwined...They always come in pairs." (Martha, 28:49)
  • "It's a core hatred of women...what they hate so much about a trans person is that person making their own choice..." (Martha, 29:27)
  • Urges listeners to recognize that abortion is still legally accessible in many states—and stresses community responsibility in ensuring reproductive freedom.
• Chelsea underscores the importance of helping women in states with restrictive abortion laws.

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Listener Advice Segment – Notable Calls & Responses

1. Fear of Sex After Abortion

[38:57 – 42:33]

• Megan, happily married, fears sex after an abortion and political attacks on reproductive rights.
  • Chelsea: "It’s called birth control, Megan. Hello. Get some. ... Go and get the proper...birth control for you. Period. End of story." (Chelsea, 40:00)
  • Catherine suggests somatic therapy and meditation.
  • Martha: "Maybe it’s your husband’s fault, right? Maybe he’s not communicating...Don’t try not to blame yourself for all this. Blame it on somebody else. Blame it on a man. They never get any blame." (Martha, 40:48)
  • The trio encourages proactive steps—contraception, communication, possibly medical procedures, and emphasizes destigmatizing these conversations.

2. Surviving Living With Mother-in-Law

[42:39 – 52:33]

• Teagan, "resentment-swamp" confession after years of having her mother-in-law live with her family during a failed cottage renovation.
  • Chelsea recognizes her survival and advises: "Now is a great opportunity for you guys to even understand each other better by sitting down together...to give each other the right amount of space." (Chelsea, 47:15)
  • Suggests writing out the desired relationship dynamic, and jointly setting respectful boundaries—"pleasant boundaries."
  • Martha commends Teagan’s fortitude: "I'm over here applauding your fortitude, your strength...You're doing great." (Martha, 49:57)
  • Reframes the upcoming move into the cottage as a fresh start for the whole family.

3. Dating Patterns and Narcissists

[52:43 – 61:48]

• Dev, 25, repeatedly cheated on, struggles with attracting narcissists.
  • Chelsea recommends reading Attached and "It’s Called A Breakup Because It’s Broken," self-awareness, and a break from dating: "Write [red flags] down and put them on your refrigerator and on your mirror...the first red flag is the last red flag." (Chelsea, 54:41)
  • Martha ties attraction to narcissists to early wounds and affirms: "You're looking for something that is exciting and interesting and makes you feel loved...they're the ones who are disappointing, not you." (Martha, 59:26)
  • Emphasizes giving oneself grace and celebrating growth: "Don't bring yourself down...They're the assholes." (Martha, 59:24)
  • Dev demonstrates self-recognition: "I already had the epiphany that I was the common denominator in this pattern. ... And working on that." (Dev, 59:03)

4. Setting Boundaries With a Difficult Parent

[66:03 – 71:20]

• Ali, 30, feels her father’s needy, intrusive, misogynistic tendencies are sabotaging their relationship post-therapy and motherhood.
  • Chelsea’s advice: Send the exact letter to her father in writing: "It’s much more effective...to put something in writing, because saying it out loud, it can be obfuscated...He can reflect and look back on it." (Chelsea, 68:27)
  • Martha: "Once you’ve said it, you can go ‘OK, this is what I was talking about in that letter...goodbye.’ It's very cut and dried...especially with men—you give men an inch and they take a mile." (Martha, 69:40)
  • Both favor clear, unapologetic communication and refusing to argue or negotiate repeatedly.

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Notable Quotes by Timestamp

• On self-coupling:
  • "I’m in a committed relationship with myself." – Martha Plimpton [19:22]
• On NYC’s changing vibe:
  • "It’s just mean...I don't want to walk down the street and have people like, shove me. I'm just over it." – Martha Plimpton [16:00]
• On acting and writing:
  • "It’s all in the writing, really...things just sort of fall into place." – Martha Plimpton [11:02]
• On bodily autonomy:
  • "They’re both based in a core hatred of women...They don't like anybody being able to have full self-determination and autonomy." – Martha Plimpton [29:27]
• On women not needing romantic relationships:
  • "Anyone who gets divorced or isn't in a relationship at this age is almost so turned off by the idea of it." – Chelsea Handler [20:02]
• On identifying narcissists:
  • "The first red flag is the last red flag. You don't need to go through this again, because life is about patterns." – Chelsea Handler [54:41]
• On boundaries with men:
  • "With men, I just feel like it’s very important not to leave them an inch. Not an inch, because they will take it...You give men an inch and they take a mile." – Martha Plimpton [69:40]
• On personal growth:
  • "I have not to toot my own horn, but such a bright light that I can share...it's their loss. Boss. Fully, completely, hard stop. He is such a loser." – Dev [61:10]

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Other Memorable Moments

• Plenty of characteristic Chelsea sarcasm and humor, e.g., joking about alternative birth control (“melatonin (…) metamucil”) [40:01].
• Candid admissions about how even accomplished, independent women can get “stuck” (physically, emotionally) and the ongoing struggle for boundaries and forgiveness.
• Open discussion about the reality of aging, independence, and finding happiness solo.

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Closing Thoughts

Dear Chelsea maintains its fiercely honest, humorous, and compassionate tone in this episode. With Martha Plimpton as a kindred spirit guest, the show underscores the importance of personal boundaries, bodily autonomy, and the power—and peace—of embracing one's single life. Deep advice is balanced with wit, and listeners are left with tools to address sexism, family tension, heartbreak, and self-care.

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Segment Timestamps

• [03:32] – Chelsea and Catherine on Spain, activism, and boycotts
• [08:28] – Martha Plimpton’s entrance, reflections on acting and moving
• [19:08] – Self-coupling and solo contentment
• [21:43] – Martha on River Phoenix and first love
• [23:06] – "East of Eden" limited series discussion
• [26:57] – Forgiveness and boundary setting
• [28:40] – Abortion, trans rights, and activism
• [38:57] – Listener email: fear of sex after abortion
• [42:39] – Listener email: living with mother-in-law
• [52:43] – Listener email: repeated narcissists in dating
• [66:03] – Listener email: setting boundaries with a difficult parent

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For advice, questions, or to hear more, visit [e-mail].

Transcript

[Chelsea Handler]

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[Asma Khalid]

Iheart America is changing and so is the world.

[Martha Plimpton]

But what's happening in America is isn't just a cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington, DC.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm Tristan Redman in London and this is the Global Story.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Martha Plimpton]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

I just announced all my tour dates. They just went on sale. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be starting debuting my new material in February of next year, so I'm coming to Washington, D.C. norfolk, Virginia Madison, Wisconsin Milwaukee, Wisconsin Detroit, Michigan Cleveland, Columbus and Cincinnati, Ohio Denver, Colorado Portland, Maine Providence, Rhode Island Springfield, Massachusetts Chicago, of course, Indianapolis, Indiana Louisville, Kentucky Albuquerque Mesa, Arizona Kansas City, Missouri St. Louis, Missouri Minneapolis, Minnesota Nashville, Tennessee Charlotte, North Carolina Durham, North Carolina Saratoga, California Monterey, California Modesto, California and Port Chester, New York Boston, Massachusetts Portland, Oregon and Seattle, Washington. I will be touring from February through June. Those are the cities that I'm in. Pre sale started last week, so tickets are flying. I haven't added second shows yet, but we probably will be to some of these. So go get your tickets now. If you want good seats and you wanna come see me, I will be on the High and Mighty tour. Hi, Katherine.

Hi, Chelsea. How's Spain?

Spain is relaxing and reinvigorating and rejuvenating and regenerative with an R. I am.

So glad to hear that. What are you spending your time doing?

Well, Doug got arrested. I brought Doug.

He is.

[Guest/Caller]

Apparently they're not allowed on the beaches dogs, but that's bullshit. So I'm just ignoring every person that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Says that to me and pretending that I don't understand what they're saying.

This is where no hablo espanol comes in real handy.

I'm like, no hablo espanol right now. All ram Ismo.

[Guest/Caller]

But he is wiped out every day.

[Chelsea Handler]

He is he. First of all, he goes in the.

[Guest/Caller]

Water and he drinks the salt water.

[Chelsea Handler]

So he hasn't gotten sick yet.

[Guest/Caller]

So I guess.

[Chelsea Handler]

But I think it puts him to.

[Guest/Caller]

Sleep or he's still jet lagged, I can't tell.

[Chelsea Handler]

But he loves it.

[Guest/Caller]

We have a. We had a vest for him, but he doesn't really go far enough in for the vest. So anyway, he loves the beaches. Somebody told me I have to get up at before the lifeguards are out at seven to take him on. He said that's when everyone goes out with their dogs. I'm like seven. I'm on fucking vacation, buddy. You come in to get my dog at seven? It's not even light out at seven.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right, right.

[Guest/Caller]

But yes, it's been a joy. Everywhere Doug goes, he's treated like a li. The Lion King especially. I've noticed though that it's discriminatory because when he's dry people respect him more because he's fluffier and more imposing. And when he's wet he looks meek like a pussy.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, he is just a sweet boy. So I'm not surprised that he's getting a lot of gaining a lot of fans in your Neighborhood.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah. Oh, so that's happening. I know there's a lot happening in America that I'm going to miss this weekend. Like that no Kings protest. So let's remind our listeners that you can find one in your [e-mail] and.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'll put a link to that in the description.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes, and I also want to let our listeners know that I am going to boycott Home Depot since they cooperate with ICE and they have these, like, scanning systems. What is it called? Flock. I think it's called Flock. Anyway, they basically surveil you when you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Go there and they could share that information.

[Guest/Caller]

They surveil your license plates and they can share that information with ICE or.

[Chelsea Handler]

The police, whoever they feel like.

[Guest/Caller]

And, like, that's not American. And with everything that's happening with ice, I looking for companies to boycott that are profiting from ice. And Home Depot is also backed by Peter Thiel, who runs Palantir, who profits off of detention centers and putting people in cages. So I am going to boycott that store. No one that lives in my house is going to be purchasing anything from Home Depot.

[Chelsea Handler]

We're a Lowe's family from now on.

[Guest/Caller]

Lowe's is no good either.

[Chelsea Handler]

Damn.

[Guest/Caller]

Lowe's has some. Yeah. Associations with ICE as well. So. Okay, well, not going. You're going to Ace Hardware now, I guess.

[Martha Plimpton]

Okay.

[Guest/Caller]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

I can get down with an Ace Hardware. Yeah. I know. Home Depot at least is also, like, one of the major Trump donors. Yeah.

Out there.

So.

[Guest/Caller]

So. And it's not about boycotting until they, like, meet this, like, you know, requirements of not cooperating with ice. It's literally about, like, why we're in this situation and this corporate cattle, you know, like capitalism and that would. They. They own us. And we have to start doing things without all of these major corporations, which is going to. For people to do, myself included. I mean, I'm relying on all of this stuff.

[Chelsea Handler]

But we have to.

[Guest/Caller]

Neil Young had a post saying, like, we need to buy locally. I know you don't think we can, but we can. This is enough with corporate America. They are, you know, they're handing over our democracy. I didn't. He didn't say that verbatim, but that's what I took away. And I agree.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, since we've been boycotting Target since the beginning of the year, like, I am just sort of like, what was I spending? However many hundred dollars a month. Sarah, you know what I mean?

[Guest/Caller]

What.

[Chelsea Handler]

Why was I going there? It's been Right. So easy to switch over to Companies that actually are doing good things that pay their workers a living wage, like Costco is one. That's kind of where we've started going for bulk stuff. And there's others as well, but also just like for gifts for different things, like shopping local wherever you can. Like, I know at least in our neighborhood, like, there are so many empty shop windows, like, just because these smaller companies, like, can't or, you know, mom and pop places can't stay in business. So whenever you can try and patronize smaller businesses.

[Guest/Caller]

Absolutely, Absolutely. I'm reading Malala's book right now because she's on an upcoming podcast, so I'm enjoying that. Her newest book.

[Chelsea Handler]

I can't wait to have her.

[Guest/Caller]

And then I just finished watching the show who we have one of the stars on of Task. If you guys are watching Task on hbo, then you know how good it is.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's so good.

[Guest/Caller]

It's so good.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think we're on the season finale. I ended up going all the way.

[Guest/Caller]

So I won't say any spoiler alerts because we had that little access thing and I finally got. I realized how to use it. But anyway, I first met her in the Goonies and her name is Martha Plimpton. And that's our guest today. So please welcome her.

[Chelsea Handler]

Oh, yay. Here we are. Hi. Oh, hi, Martha Plimpton. And I'm so happy to see you.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm happy to see you. How have you been?

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, I don't say this to many people, but you kind of remind me of myself. I don't know if a lot of people. Whether or not that's a compliment or not. I don't know if a lot of people come up to you and say, everyone tells me that I remind them of you.

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, that's nice. I find that. I think that's nice. I think it's a compliment.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, that's a question, actually. Do people say that?

[Martha Plimpton]

Do they say it to me that I remind them of? No.

[Chelsea Handler]

No, they don't.

[Martha Plimpton]

No.

[Chelsea Handler]

Because I feel like you remind me of me.

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, I'm very flattered. What can I say?

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, there's nothing to really say. I just feel like ever since I saw you, when I first laid eyes on, you must have been the Goonies. And I was like, that's my personality right there. And I've loved watching you through all of your work over the years and most recently in Task, which is a HBO limited series with Mark Ruffalo where you play a real shit kicking boss who is fucking awesome. Another great role for you.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

How has it been working with Mark?

[Martha Plimpton]

Oh, he's, you know, it would be fine if he was, you know, a nice guy.

[Chelsea Handler]

I know. I know. It's ridiculous how nice he is.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's too bad that he's such an asshole. You know what I mean?

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes.

[Martha Plimpton]

No, he's just. He's the loveliest, funniest, most dear guy. He's just a great family man. Loves his wife, loves his kids, loves. You know. He's just great. He's just a great, great human being.

[Chelsea Handler]

So it's been a pleasurable experience working on that show.

[Martha Plimpton]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Chelsea Handler]

You know, Katherine said something in the opening, which I thought you should repeat yourself. So I don't take credit for.

I told my husband, like, after just the first scene that you're in in that show, I'm like, she is playing chess where everybody else is playing checkers. Like, there are so many specific things you're doing as an actor, even just in that first scene. And some of it's your character, but some of it's. I mean, it's just. I was so blown away by the nuances that you used. Just fantastic.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you. That's very, very kind. I appreciate that. Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, you really jump off the screen when you're on camera. It's very obvious that you're. Now, I don't want to say taking over the scene because there are other actors involved, but you really add to the flavor of it every time you're on camera.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm so glad. That's lovely to hear. I really thank you. It's all in the writing, really. I mean, Brad Inglesby did all the heavy lifting for me, you know, and, you know. And when you're working with a guy like Mark or any of these terrific actors, it's just really. It just is very easy. It just feels very, very natural. And, you know, things just sort of fall into place really nicely. So.

[Chelsea Handler]

And how did this role come to you? Did they just offer it to you? Is that how it works for you?

[Martha Plimpton]

I wanna say they did, although I don't know. You don't remember? I don't remember. I know I got the. I know I got the script when I was working on the regime with Kate Winslet, who, of course, did Brad's earlier show, Mare of Easttown, which all.

[Chelsea Handler]

Requires that Philadelphia accent, which is very, very hard to do. It's quite an annoying accent, to be honest.

[Asma Khalid]

Yes.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's not an easy one. It's not an easy. Which is why I Opted to. To just avoid it altogether. I don't. I'm not even. I'm not even trying, really.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, you don't really have to, though, because it's like, you guys are all detectives.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's not necessary. You don't really know. You don't have. I don't. You don't have to know where I'm from. You know, I could be from anywhere. I could be from Ohio. I could be from New Jersey. I could be from D.C. i could be from anywhere.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. Unless you're ordering a water ice, you're off the hook. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kate did a great job of it. Mayor of Easttown. There was also. I had a roommate in my early 20s in LA. She was from the most southerly part of New Jersey. So she had that. Because I was from New Jersey and I had the Jersey accent, but not that accent. And she would say, like. She would say, panty hoes and moist, like the hose too long. And I was like, stop talking like that. I'm like that. You're from New Jersey. You're acting like that's what we sound like. Don't talk like that. It's already bad enough with my. My Jersey accent comes out when I have a cocktail, you know, Then I'm like. I start slurring a little bit. Okay, so are you sort of homeless right now, or you just moved? Are you kind of.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm selling my house in Brooklyn. You know, deciding to do it right now when the world is in such a state of chaos and nobody knows if we're gonna have a massive stock market crash.

[Chelsea Handler]

Not a great time for real estate.

Not a great time.

[Martha Plimpton]

The main thing is that I'm leaving New York, which is where I'm from. I'm born and raised there. And it's very heavy to know that you're disconnecting from your hometown and you're not gonna have a there anymore. It's very jarring. It's disconcerting. But, you know, I sort of feel like it's time. I feel like me and New York are kind of on the. On the outs right now.

[Chelsea Handler]

I can relate to this. I feel like I'm a little bit on the outs. Not a little bit. A lot on the outs with Los Angeles. I'm over Los Angeles, and I'm kind of stuck here for a while until I finish this stupid fucking house that I've been building for four years. And it's been the biggest nightmare so far in my adult life. So I can't wait to have it done and then get out of here. Like, either sell it, rent it, I don't know yet, but. And I'm thinking about going to New York because that's. I've never lived in New York. I'm from New Jersey. I feel like I wanna stay active. LA is a very sleepy, inactive place. But I also know that you're going to London, which is pretty much on par with New York in terms of activity.

[Martha Plimpton]

Well, I mean, I think it is, but it's also. There's just a. Generally, there's. It's a less kind of agit. And I don't know if it's because it's novelty for me, because I'm not from there or what, but I just feel like there's a more of a sense of sort of common decency there, you know, a sense of politeness, a sense of sort of anticipating your fellow man's humanity, you know, recognizing it. Like people actually wait to board the train before, you know, so people can get off, you know, And New York is just for me, you know, I've lived there my whole life. Like I said, I'm born and raised there. And right now I just. If I want my city jones taken care of, I think London is the place that's more sort of my speed right now. I am getting to the place where, you know, I'm almost 55. And I just want, you know, I just want some peace and quiet, for Christ's sake. You know, I just want to just take a chill. I want to be around nature as much as I can. I want to ride horses. I want to, you know.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

All that stuff and feed my birds and my bird feeders and the hummingbirds, you know what I mean? I'm into just taking a little breather.

[Chelsea Handler]

So you feel like New York has become a bit too hectic, is what I'm gathering.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's too hectic and it's too hostile. And, you know, I mean, it's just, you know, I want some warmth. I want some common decency.

[Chelsea Handler]

Do you think that's because of the political aspect of things or just because New York has been.

[Martha Plimpton]

I think New York is kind of. Well, first of all, nobody who can afford to live there is like. They're all wealthy or children, you know what I mean? St. Mark's Place is not the sort of rollicking Lower east side place it used to be. It's now, like, covered in, you know, outdoor cafes with people drinking Aperol spritzes and influencers, you know, walking around with their beach, waves, hair, and you know what I mean? It just doesn't feel like New York to me anymore, you know? And on top of that, it's just mean. It's just, you know, when I walk down the street, I want to say hello to people. I want to go, hi, how you doing? I like your shirt. Or I like, you know, hey, you look great. I don't want to walk down the street and have people, like, shove me, or I'm just over it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I hear you.

[Martha Plimpton]

I think it's a political thing. You know, Eric Adams is a disaster.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

You know, we keep. New Yorkers keep electing these schmucks, and I just, you know, I'm hoping for a momdani.

[Chelsea Handler]

Why does New York always elect such idiots? What is the deal?

[Guest/Caller]

I don't know.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's like, I don't know. Smart group of people, ostensibly. Like, you would think that New Yorkers would have their shit together above and beyond almost all cities in this country.

[Martha Plimpton]

I know, I know. And I can't even believe that Cuomo is still, like, contender. I mean, I'm just like, what is going on? Where is everybody's head at? I don't know. I just, I'm really hopeful for Mamdani. I hope that he pulls through and I hope he wins, but if he doesn't, I mean, it's even more reason to just get the hell out.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, Andrew Cuomo is like the death cough of American politics. I mean, and he's not even the worst one. I mean, he's bad, but there are so many worse ones. But it's such a representation of how old and out of touch the Democratic Party is, is to be holding onto Cuomo and putting him up against Mandani. Like, and every, you know, all the Jews are like, cuz I'm a Jew. All the Jews are like, no, no, no, he's an anti Semite. I'm like, listen, he's walked all these things back. There is a new, like, there is new blood coming through. Like, he understands. You can't say that. He understands. There's tons of Jewish people in New York City and that kind of line of thinking is inappropriate. And you have to give people room to make, like, make amends, make apologies, and change the goalposts in terms of understanding who's electing you and who is gonna be living in the city that you're gonna be in charge of. So I don't look at that from, like a Jewish standpoint. Like, I'm not, I'm not gonna Vote for. I mean I don't live in New York anyway. But if I did, I probably would vote for Maudani. I mean not probably, I would.

[Martha Plimpton]

I think it's gonna be my last election as a New Yorker and I think I'm going Mamdani.

[Guest/Caller]

Uh huh.

[Chelsea Handler]

And so what? So you obviously love London.

[Martha Plimpton]

I love it.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

You've spent a lot of time there.

[Martha Plimpton]

I love working there and I get work there, you know, unlike here where it's a little bit harder for older women particularly, you know, older women with a mouth, you know. But yeah, they tend to respect women there a little bit more. Older actresses. It's shocking, it's disconcerting.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

But I like it. I like it.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's nice to know. That's nice to know. I know that you refer to yourself as self coupled. Tell me what that is. I mean it's pretty self explanatory, but I would love for you to opine about it.

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm in a committed relationship with myself.

[Chelsea Handler]

Love it.

[Martha Plimpton]

And I'm really, really enjoying it. I'm really happy. I'm not interested in relationships, I'm not interested in dating. I like doing what I want to do when I want to do it, going where I want to go, when I want to go. I don't want anyone in my house farting, taking up space, taking up oxygen, you know what I mean? I like a dinner party, but then go home, you know what I mean? I love my single life. I love having my space, my solitude. It's really just, you know, I'm very happy.

[Chelsea Handler]

It's so interesting. Women our age. I'm 50, you're 55. It's just women our age are just like. Anyone who gets divorced or isn't in a relationship at this age is almost so turned off by the idea of it. It's just not even, it's not even something I spend a moment of my day thinking about. My friend said to me the other day, you gotta, you know, I was telling my friend, she goes, I don't want to get old and dry. And I'm like, dry? What do you mean? Are you talking about your vagina? And she's like, yeah. I go, you masturbate all the time. That's all you have to do to keep the juices flowing. Like that's scientific. And she's like, that's ridiculous. I go, it's actually not ridiculous. If you use your vagina, you don't have to use it with another person, you can use it with yourself and it will Remain. And she was like, I just store.

[Martha Plimpton]

Things in there, you know, give it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Chores, Use it as a cubicle. Absolutely, yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

Give it things to do around the house.

[Chelsea Handler]

And she was like, yeah, I went through this phase thinking, like, oh, I have to keep having sex in order to keep my vagina operable. And I was like, no, no, that's not actually true. And then she's like. And then in the last couple of months, I've come to this place where I'm just like, I don't think about men at all. And I'm like, I know. It's like a coming of age. There's a time in your life where, like, Katherine, you're married. So that's a different situation. Happily married. But, like, there is once a woman either, like, gets divorced, like, we don't feel the need at a certain age to shack up again because, you know, we realize how beautiful being independent and untethered is.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yes, it is absolutely beautiful. And also, you know, let's face it, I mean, I haven't had the best track record anyway, usually most of the time. So I'm fine with just giving myself a little. A little hiatus, a little break.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah, I know. Yeah. You dated River Phoenix when you were really young, didn't you?

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, but that was 40 years ago.

[Chelsea Handler]

Well, yeah, but you were dealing with. That stands out in my brain because you were dealing with such adult issues at such a young age, dealing with his addiction, dealing with fame, dealing with all of the things that you had to deal with as a little girl, basically. So how does a teenage girl. Because you were essentially a teenager right when you started dating. I think.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

How did you. How do you handle those big issues as a small. Like a younger person?

[Martha Plimpton]

I don't know. I don't think you really think about it. When you're in the middle of it, you don't think about it. You just love the person that you're with. And, you know, I still love him. I miss him every day. You're not really thinking about all that. You're just kind of going with, you know, what, you know, which is, you know, love, kindness, you know, attachment, you know, a little bit of fear, a little bit of nervousness, all the normal things that go along with having a first love. You know what I mean? Family. You know, I love his family. I love. You know, I loved all of that. I love and I loved him greatly. But I don't think I was like, you know, sure, there were difficulties, and there were hard things about it. I just think of it as a wonderful experience. Beautiful time in my life. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And a connection. Right. Yeah, Yeah, I know. You're doing the movie east of Eden. You're adapting the movie east of Eden, which is really exciting. That was one of the very.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's another limited series. Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

I'm so excited. And who else is in that?

[Martha Plimpton]

That's Florence Pugh.

[Chelsea Handler]

Great.

[Martha Plimpton]

And Mike Faist and Kieran Hines and Tracy Letts and Zoe Kazan adapted it and created. You know, she sort of created this limited series. And it's so. Such an incredible book. I'm ashamed to say I didn't read it until I knew I was gonna do the series. And when I finally read it, I was just. It's gotta be. I think it's my favorite American novel. It's just so, so beautiful. And Zoe, who, of course, is the granddaughter of Elia Kazan, who's the director of the first film with James Dean. She's just done an incredible job adapting this thing and focusing really, on the whole entire life of Kathy. You know, this central female character who's so. Oh, man. She is a dark, dark soul, that one. Real dark.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

East of Eden is one of the first books that my father forced me to read when I was 8 years old. It was Anna Karenina. Oh, my gosh. Anna Karenina. Eight, yeah. Cause he had to keep me busy. Cause he knew I was gonna be trouble or he thought I was gonna be. He wasn't wrong. I read Anna Karenina. I read east of Eden by John Steinbeck, which was, at 8 years old, all I remember. I mean, I've reread it since then. But the descriptiveness of John Steinbeck, like the descriptive writing, but also very beautiful, but also quite annoying when you're eight years old. You know what I mean? I mean, now I can appreciate the beauty in descriptive writing. But at that time, I was like, if I hear one more thing about the leaves on the trees and the color, like, I got it. There are fucking trees and there are fucking leaves everywhere you look. But what an amazing and iconic American author.

[Martha Plimpton]

You know, just completely. And I don't know why. I mean, you know, I sort of. I was afraid. Cause my grandfather was in the movie the Grapes of Wrath. John Carradine's my grandfather, and he plays the preacher in Grapes of Wrath. And I don't know, I just. For some reason, I was afraid to read it because I thought maybe he'd be a little bit like Hemingway, who I can't stand. I mean, just as a writer, I just don't like him. And also he seems like he was kind of a horrible person. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

But I was so wrong. I was so wrong. It's one of the most beautiful. And you really feel like you can smell that California air, that mountain desert, dry, you know, scrub oak, you know, and the soil and the dirt. You really feel like you can just. You're just in it. And I love that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, it's very Americana, like, for. There's certain authors that just represent, like, American.

[Martha Plimpton]

And it's, like, biblical. It's a biblical story, basically. What? He's right.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like Cain and Abel sort of situation.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yes, it's a Cain and Abel thing, but it's also a good and evil thing. And the inherent. Whether or not you're born evil or if it's beat into you. And it's just this wonderful, all these themes of redemption and salvation and forgiveness. I mean, it's just a gorgeous book. And I think that. That the series is really. It's gonna be really good, I have a feeling.

[Chelsea Handler]

Where are you guys shooting about it?

[Martha Plimpton]

We shot it already in New Zealand, which is shockingly very similar to early California, early 1800s California, because it wasn't settled until the 1800s. So the architecture all really looks like the Old West. It's really kind of wild. In the northern island of. Of New Zealand, Auckland area. So that's where we shot it. It was incredible.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. New Zealand is so nice to be in New Zealand. What do you think about that? Do you think people are born evil?

[Martha Plimpton]

You know, that's a good question. And I don't know if we ever know the answer. There's certainly people who seem like they were born evil.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Like Stephen Miller seems like he was born evil.

[Martha Plimpton]

It seems like. Yeah, it seems like he might have been born that way, but.

[Chelsea Handler]

But it also makes sense that you could be so traumatized, you know, at something that happens so early on in your life and be so kind of ignored, neglected, that you could become evil.

[Martha Plimpton]

I have horrible parents who are horrible, horrible, awful people, too. I mean, you know, I don't know. But then again, you have people who are perfectly nice, and then they, you know, they have a Jeffrey Dahmer. So I don't know. Who knows? You know? I don't know. It's a good question.

[Chelsea Handler]

Are you good at forgiving people who have wronged you?

[Martha Plimpton]

I'm good at forgiving people up to a point. And then when a line gets crossed, then I'm done. So I'll give a person many, many chances. But then when that line Gets crossed when there's like a betrayal or like a, you know, if someone really, really doesn't have my back in a moment when it's necessary, or if someone really, really seems to be just serving themselves at my expense, then I say sayonara.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I have the same thing. I take on a lot and then.

[Martha Plimpton]

It hits critical mass and I go, you know what? I'm done now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Out of my face. And when I'm done, I'm really, really done. Yeah, I don't like to go. I don't like recidivism, especially in relationships, sexually and friendships. Like, once it's over, it's a wrap.

[Martha Plimpton]

That's it.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

So talk to us about the relationship with abortion and trans rights. I think you made a comment and I thought that was interesting to illuminate for this conversation.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that they fall under the umbrella of bodily autonomy and doing what you feel and know is right for you and your body and not letting the state control what you do with your own body and what you want to be in your own body and what you are in your own body. I think they're both incredibly. They're completely intertwined and you often don't see one restriction of one group without the other. They always come in pairs or whatever formulation you want to use. And they're both based in a core hatred of women and women's difference and women's complexity and women's. I don't know the breadth of women's experience. Americans, a large number of them just really, really hate us. They really hate women and they don't care if we die or if we suffer. And what I think they don't especially like about trans people. And of course, I'm speaking to this as someone who is not trans, so I don't have the direct experience, but my, my guess is that what they hate so much about a trans person is that person making their own choice, living their own destiny, truthfully, freely, honestly, openly. They just cannot stand that something that they are unable to do, someone else is able to do. They just don't like anybody being able to have full self determination and autonomy because they believe in control and silence.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's exactly what's happening. And it's not just an American issue, it's a global issue.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

People don't want women to succeed in the way that women are succeeding or to be as independent as women have become. You co founded a women's health care called A is for.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, it's basically I'M not a member of the organization anymore, although I wish them well. It just was time for me to move on. But yeah, I co founded this about 13 or 14 years ago and it was basically an effort to take the stigma away from the whole subject because abortion is healthcare. And we noticed, you know, it was happening during this whole Sandra Fluke thing in the ACA Obamacare and Sandra Fluke was suing Notre Dame for not covering her contraceptives when she was in university there. And you know, she was being called all sorts of horrible names and women were being told to keep their legs closed or put an aspirin between your knees or what all these ridiculous things people were saying. And you know, it just struck us that the core of what was happening at that time, of course has changed a bit. It's mutated, it's grown like hideous limbs and spread in various ways. But at that time we felt that the core issue was stigma and we wanted to fight back. And so that's kind of what the basis of AS4 was to begin with. And now they do great work in supporting on the ground abortion funds, independent clinics, legal aid organizations and things like this.

[Chelsea Handler]

What is your advice to women listening like about fighting back in the current moment we're living in, you know, in America?

[Martha Plimpton]

First of all, it's very important to remember that abortion is still available in this country. That mifepristone and misoprostol here, by the way, here are two rings I have. There's a mifepristone and that's the misoprostol.

[Chelsea Handler]

Ring that you take every morning when you wake up.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, they're very safe and they're very available. And obviously you should check out what the laws are in your state. And there are several doctors now being chased down who are working in shield law states who are being attacked. A doctor from New York who's Louisiana's going after him. I think there's a doctor in the Bay Area who's Louisiana's going after her or him, attempting to sue them for wrongful death. I mean, it's just insane what these people are willing to do. But it's important for women to know that and for anyone with a uterus to know that abortion is available.

[Chelsea Handler]

That's right.

[Martha Plimpton]

And you can avail yourself of the tools to self manage your own abortion. And anyone who tells you that you can't or that you shouldn't or that it's reversible is lying to you. So that's the most important thing to know. I think and to remember that abortion is a community responsibility. As my friend Amelia Bono at Shout yout Abortion says, you know, abortion is, it's everyone's job to make sure that every single person in their community is able to make their own decisions about their own life. It's everyone's job to stand up up for them and to support them and to protect them. Yeah. So I think those are just two things that I would say.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. And especially to states that like Texas where abortion has become illegal. And I mean, I know a woman who had to fly to San Francisco to get her abortion. You know, that is costly. So like, if you are listening to this podcast and you live in one of those places where abortion has been criminalized, please make sure that you are helping your friends and helping women and thinking about their healthcare as an issue of health. Like this is, every woman has the right to decide what to do with her body. Not the state, not the government. So if there is someone in your area that needs help, that needs help financing or you know, getting out of that state, please make sure that you are thinking of others and not just of your own community. You know, try and find organizations that help support that and help finance people's abortions in other states.

Yeah, I'll put a few of those organizations. If you're somebody who finds yourself in need, some organizations you can reach out to in the description here.

[Martha Plimpton]

So fantastic.

[Chelsea Handler]

Great.

We're going to take a break. We're going to be right back with Martha Plimpton and we're going to take some callers.

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[Chelsea Handler]

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[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, I hope. Oh, man. I mean, with the state of my life, I'm not sure I'm qualified. But let's.

[Chelsea Handler]

Qualified.

[Martha Plimpton]

Let's go for it.

[Chelsea Handler]

All you need is somebody who's not involved in your situation to give you objective advice. Yes.

[Martha Plimpton]

Okay.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes.

That's the thesis benchmark.

[Martha Plimpton]

Great. Let's do it.

[Chelsea Handler]

All right, well, this first one is just an email, but it's continuing on with our theme of abortion. So Megan says. Dear Chelsea, in 2019, right before the pandemic, I had an abortion. It went as well as an abortion could go and I was ultimately happy with my decision. However, since then, I have developed a fear around having sex. I've been happily married for five years and I still think my husband is sexy as hell. But every time we have sex or even think about having sex, the only thing I can think is, what if I get pregnant again? Major buzz kill. With everything happening in our country right now around reproductive rights, I'm terrified that I could find myself in a position where I'm forced to go through with an unwanted or non viable pregnancy. Thankfully, I live in a blue state where things seem to be chill on the abortion front for now. But if the last few years have taught me anything, it's that anything can happen. All this political upheaval, the pandemic, plus day to day stressors have taken a serious toll on my libido too. I'd love to get back into enjoying sex. It's such a great way to relax and get out of my head and into my body, plus connect with my husband. But I'm not sure what steps I need to take to get there. Any advice, Megan?

It's called birth control.

[Guest/Caller]

Megan.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hello. Get some. What kind of questions are these? Birth control, iud. You can take a pill, you can get the melifestoprone, mefistoprone, mepristone, mestone and misoprostone. Municiprine, you can get that. Metamucil.

Get the melatonin.

Melatonin also great. No, you can get birth control and you're in a blue state. First of all, you're safe. You should definitely start enjoying your sexual life. You know, be happy that you have someone you're attracted to. That is a victory in and of itself.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Doing some meditation just to actually get into your body totally outside of the Sex stuff could help you learn to sink into your body when you guys are having sex. And then my other big piece of advice is, like, if that's not working, like, find a somatic therapist.

[Martha Plimpton]

Like, I also think that, you know, women put so much pressure on themselves. You know, maybe it's your husband's fault, right? Maybe he's not communicating. Maybe it, you know, I mean, it might not be you. It might be him. It might be, you know, she says he's sexy and everything, but that ain't enough. You know, you gotta be a good communicator. You've gotta be empathic, and you've gotta. You know, you didn't say really much about what it was like when you went through your abortion, if you went through it with your husband, if he was supportive, if he was distant, or if you felt lonely. So that's also, you know, don't try not to blame yourself for all this. Blame it on somebody else. Blame it on a man. They never get any blame. There you go.

[Chelsea Handler]

Blame it on him.

There's some sound advice, but also, if your issue is. I love it. If your issue is that you're worried about getting pregnant, that is so simple to fix, like you. So go and get the proper. Go to your OB GYN and figure out what the best birth control for you is. Period, End of story. And then.

[Martha Plimpton]

Or have your husband wear a condom.

[Chelsea Handler]

Or has your husband. Yeah. Get a new personality or. Yeah. Wearing a condom. For men who are married at the. I love that idea. Men are like, what? Excuse me? Also, you know what you can do? I mean, if you're so worried about getting pregnant, I got an ablation, and those are available. They don't advertise those, but that's where they go in. And they scorch your uterine lining so that you don't get a period anymore and I don't get a period anymore, and you can't get pregnant after that. I mean, you're 99%, you know, safe from getting pregnant. So that's another option.

[Martha Plimpton]

Or you could. Yeah, just get your tubes tied, too. You can do that, too.

[Chelsea Handler]

My friend, this weekend. I was away in Tofino this weekend, and she said, I like getting my period. It makes me feel womanly. And we just all looked at her like, what the fuck are you talking about? Who likes getting their period?

Oh, my gosh. She must not have very many cramps, but. Well, our next question comes from Tegan. It's a little bit of a long one, but it's a really well written email, so she says. Dear Chelsea, first thank you for being the kind of person strangers like me feel safe spilling their guts to. A few years ago, my father in law passed away suddenly and my mother in law, after talking it through with her kids, sold her house. My husband and I live on a large property and generously offered her the option to build a small cottage in our backyard. The idea was she'd spend less, be closer to her grandkids and have her own private space. Until the cottage was built, she'd temporarily live upstairs in our house with her terrible spiteful cat. Sorry. Not sorry.

Uh oh, here we go.

She has a bedroom, bathroom, living room and kitchenette. The plan Six months while our own two toddlers, then ages 2 and 3, continued sleeping in her room to make space for her. We share a kitchen, a life, a ceiling. All temporary, right? Well, we started the cottage without permits, naively thinking it would be simple, and three months in, the town shut it down. Since then the permitting process has been a soul sucking, hope killing multi year nightmare. Do you know anything about that, Chelsea? Here we are in 2025 and her cottage is just now almost done. That means she's still upstairs. And my kids, now 5 and 7, still share a bedroom with me and my husband.

Oh my God.

Let me say this. She's not a monster in law. She's kind. She's helped us financially, she loves us, but she's always been a lot. Even when I was a teenager dating her son, she was already the kind of person I felt mildly allergic to. Chatty to a level that feels like psychological warfare. Socially unaware, messy, kind of lazy and completely incapable of reading a room. She talks through every silence. She lingers in doorways when I'm just trying to mother my children in peace. Being around her 247 has turned all those little quirks into rage triggers for me. I twitch at the sound of her footsteps. I get angry when she breathes too loud. And I know that makes me sound unkind, but it is the truth. So after three years of this, I've grown deeply resentful. Early motherhood was supposed to be sacred for me, and instead I've been in this constant state of stress. Meanwhile, my husband and I have tiptoed around our intimacy, spending three years as a family of four crammed into one bedroom. I know she didn't ask for this tragedy either. She lost her husband, she's retired, she's lonely. She probably means well. But just because I know all that doesn't mean I know how to stop Feeling the way I do. My husband's on the same page. I'm not proud of the tone I take with her or how I avoid her like a sulky teenager or how I let her mere presence ruin my day. I don't want credit. I don't want pity. I want tools to stop mentally living in this resentment swamp. I want to be kind, especially because she's not going anywhere. She'll be 50ft from my back door for the rest of our lives. How do I get there? Sincerely, Teagan.

Hi, this is our special guest. Martha Plimpton is here today.

[Martha Plimpton]

Hi.

[Asma Khalid]

Hi.

[Martha Plimpton]

Wow, What a conundrum.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes.

You're a survivor. You've survived, first of all. So you've survived this. I mean, I cannot believe you've been sharing a bedroom with your children. I can relate. I can relate to at first. I mean, I can relate to a lot of it, but I can relate to the real estate fiasco of it all and is soul crushing to constantly be told and to taken advantage of over and over again and be told. Something is gonna come. Be ready, and it not be ready. It's just, like, the emotional toll that that takes. I totally get it. But here's the great news. She's moving into the cottage. So 50ft away is gonna be exactly the amount of space you need. That might not sound like a lot, but she's going to be out of your. You know, like, inside your house. And even though she's gonna be loitering around and lingering, it's going to change the dynamic, like, exponentially just by having your own room back and giving your kids their own room, you know? And so, first of all, I would. If I were in your situation, I would have started taking Wellbutrin or something. Like, I would take a mood lifter, Honestly, I would go to my doctor and be like, listen, something is really irritating me, and I need something to take the edge off. I do that in times in my life when I really need it, when I'm very, very irritable. And I don't do it long term, but I do ask my doctor, like, what's something that will take the edge off? Another way to go is to actually just write down the kind of relationship that you want to have with her. Write down that, now you can even do this together with her. You can even bring her into this and go, hey, listen, we just went through something that most families don't survive. We survived it. Let's figure out how we can move forward with giving us each other the Right amount of space. She couldn't have loved living inside your house as much either. Like, she didn't. She probably was irritated by that whole situation.

[Asma Khalid]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's definitely been hard on all of us, and we're very much aligned in that, you know, we decided to do this together. We're gonna get it. Get through it all together. And every step of the way, you know, we've. I've made sure to say to her, you know, nobody asked for this. We didn't know what we didn't know. So I think I can definitely agree to that.

[Chelsea Handler]

Good for you. Good for you for, like, for even, you know, doing this and going through it. But now is a great opportunity for you guys to even understand each other better by sitting down together, whether you want to do this and include your husband. I mean, men are pretty useless, so you might as well just do it without him. You and her sit down together and go, okay, what are some rules we can follow for each other to give each other some space now that we have it? Like, what's going to make you comfortable? What's going to make me comfortable? So that you're doing it together and kind of like. Like developing a roadmap in. In concert with each other out of respect for women. You know what I mean? Like, like, you come at it like, I wanna respect you, and I want you to respect me. And I don't want any weird feelings. So let's talk about these last four years. You don't have to, like, get into the. All of it, but, like, what do we want to be different, moving forward so that we all have our own space? I know you must want your own space. I want my own space. I can't wait to have my bedroom back and. And then kind of talk through it with her. Do you think she would be open to something like that?

[Asma Khalid]

She would, yeah. A lot of it is resentment. Right. At least on my end. So I wouldn't want to go into it having to bring up things that I didn't like to then kind of prove a point of what I do want. So I guess it would just be navigating that, if that makes sense.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah. It's not useful to go, you did this, and this annoyed me. That's not the right tone. But just, you know, moving forward, like, we have a huge opportunity. Let's make this. Since the last few years have been kind of stressful and we've all been on top of each other, let's use this as an opportunity to figure out the Best ways to help each other.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And what the dynamic is gonna be moving. It's like a perfect sort of flexion point where, like, things are already changing and you can set new boundaries even if you don't call them that.

[Asma Khalid]

Right. I was just gonna say this reminds me of, like, a pleasant boundary.

[Chelsea Handler]

Two weeks heavy.

Yeah. And that way she can invoke her desires and wishes. You know what I mean? She can also say, oh, you know, from six to nine, I would like for the kids not to come over. Like, you know, use that as a starting point. I know you don't want the kids probably running over to. All day long. Is there a time of day that you'd prefer to be left alone? And then that opens the door for the times of days you want to be left alone.

[Martha Plimpton]

Right.

[Chelsea Handler]

And, like, how you're going to communicate, coming back and forth, or if it's just going to be casual or if there are certain nights that you want some privacy, you know, all of these things can come up very organically. I think you've handled yourself with such a plum thus far. Like, way to fucking go. Way to be a team player. And, you know.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, I'm over here. I'm over here applauding your fortitude, your strength and your For. I can tell you it's not. It's not been easy, but I admire your strength. You're doing great.

[Asma Khalid]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I definitely don't like to feel like I'm this, like, not so kind person, because most people I have great relationships with, it's just. It was a difficult situation, and it just kept going and going and think we would see the light at the end of the tunnel, and then it was. It was push back some more. So the light is very, very close, I do have to say, probably, you know, within the next couple weeks.

[Guest/Caller]

Right.

[Asma Khalid]

Perfect and close.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah.

[Asma Khalid]

Thank goodness for that.

[Caller Dev]

Right?

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

And. And celebrate yourself for. For putting up with that and dealing with it and being so accommodating. Like, that is a lot. That's a lot to take on. And you're gonna have privacy now with your husband. You can have sex with your husband if you're still attracted to him after all of this, that would be a victory, you know, and it's gonna be like a nice new beginning for the whole family, because the kids are gonna benefit from this too. And they're also gonna benefit from having their grandmother so close.

[Asma Khalid]

I remind myself of that a lot. And she, you know, has all great intentions as far as the kids and I know it's going to be really, really good for them. And they're, they love it and they've. For little kids, they really understand the situation and they know, okay, we're gonna get our ed rooms soon. We're gonna go pick out the paint colors. Like, they're on board with it too. So we're definitely all. And I think what you said would be a great idea to kind of start almost afresh what we should have done when she originally moved in. Been like, okay, let's figure out how we can make this work seamlessly. But we didn't know. We just were winging it. Like, okay, it'll be a couple months. Okay, a couple more months. And then here we are.

[Chelsea Handler]

And okay. Bonus that you can set up when you sit down and have this conversation is figuring out babysitting nights. Like, hey, we'd love if, like Tuesdays and Saturdays, you take the kids for three hours each night and then you can have sex with your husband also or go out or do it. But that way you have days where, you know, you get some private time. So this is even a bonus. That way the kids are outta the house too.

[Asma Khalid]

Yep, exactly. I think that's a great idea too.

[Chelsea Handler]

Definitely take advantage and don't beat yourself up for like having thoughts that you're a bad person. That's just women. That's just female guilt. That is us just wrestling with all of our responsibilities and feeling bad about having negative feelings. It's totally normal to be annoyed that somebody's in your house for that long, long. It doesn't matter. And especially your mother in law. Like, that is completely normal. You're not a bad person.

Yeah.

[Asma Khalid]

All right, I appreciate you saying that. Thank you.

[Chelsea Handler]

Keep us updated. All right, Tegan, I will.

[Asma Khalid]

Thank you. Thank you ladies so much. Thanks for your time for hearing me out.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, thanks, Tegan.

All right, well, our next caller is Dev. Dev says, Dear Chelsea, I'm 25 and from the Midwest. I'm currently experiencing the worst betrayal of my life. I've been cheated on in almost every one of my relationships. And when I got to this most recent one, I felt I finally healed and was ready to trust. We had so many what I thought were honest conversations about our past and how we could be good partners for each other. I found out after posting the first time, my first post with him after about five months of dating that he had been having a full blown affair under my nose. And now I can see basically rubbing it into my face. The girl DMed me and he Denied it until I was reading him the damning message messages he sent to her. In hindsight, I had a few moments of questioning. I always chose to trust him to avoid the toxic patterns of relationships I've been in in the past. He was never going to tell me or end it. And his reaction to me finding out truly makes me believe he's not even sorry. Logically, I know all I can do is move forward. That the best revenge is looking, feeling and doing my best. I have hobbies, friends, and I'm outgoing, I'm a catch and this is the last thing I deserved for the purpose of brevity. That's all I could just stand to hear. Any wisdom you could offer, any laughs or light hearted spins on the situation and the support from this community. Community you've created. Love, Dev.

Hi, Dev.

[Caller Dev]

Hi, Chelsea.

[Chelsea Handler]

Hi. This is our special guest, Martha Plimpton here today.

[Martha Plimpton]

Hey, how you doing?

[Chelsea Handler]

So this pattern of behavior you speak of, do you pick men that are cheating, is that the same pattern that you're referring to?

[Caller Dev]

I think the pattern is that I'm attracted to narcissists because I confuse their confidence as an attractive trait and I need to get better at discerning when it crosses a line.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, yeah, you do, because there's a lot of narcissists out there and you need to protect your mental health and you need to protect yourself because if you have a lot to offer, you want to be able to give that to somebody who deserves it. Have you read the book Attached?

[Caller Dev]

I actually am in the process of reading it. It's on my nightstand.

[Chelsea Handler]

Great. Well, that's gonna help you a lot because that's gonna make you understand which kind of version you are. Anxious, attached, you know, and you're gonna understand why you keep going after the same kind of person. It's called A Breakup Because It's Broken is a decent book about breaking up. It sounds pretty kind of silly, but it actually has some good stuff in there about not repeating patterns. But are you in therapy right now? I am, yeah. Well, then you really wanna really make sure that you are cementing the signs of narcissism. Write them fucking down and put them on your refrigerator and on your mirror so that when you are dating somebody, the first red flag is the last red flag. You don't need to go through this again because life is about patterns and behavior and the minute you break a cycle, you're able to elevate and get onto the next version of you and that's what you wanna do. You don't wanna keep running around with the same losers. It's an unfortunate byproduct of our society that there are so many narcissists. But you can combat that, you know what I mean, with your own education and your own self reliance. And also maybe take a break from dating anybody for a while until you have a real handle on how to identify somebody who is out for themselves versus somebody who's actually really caring and interested in a relationship. And also, don't confuse confidence, you know, narcissism for confidence. Does that sound right? Martha, do you wanna add anything to this?

[Martha Plimpton]

Listen, I could not agree more. I've gone through similar situations to what you're going through, and for a long time it was the bane of my existence. I was with one narcissist after another. A lot of time it's about, you know, we're attracted to something that sort of reflects back our initial wound or, you know, a childhood wound, maybe something in your family or something in a parent that you see as sort of hard to get in a way that confidence can seem like sort of you want to attain it so you can, I don't know, communicate with that part of you, that little kid in you. And I know I'm sounding kind of ridiculous right now, but that's kind of what I've done. I've sort of looked back in therapy with my shrink and my reading and gone. Okay, what am I trying to correct from my youth or my little girlhood that is feeling so left behind or so in need of approval and love from somebody who's really just about kind of themselves, you know, I think everything Chelsea said is exactly right and you're gonna be fine. And she's right. You know, maybe taking a little break is okay. I certainly am and I'm loving it. You know, you don't have to wait till you're 50 to take a break from dating and getting to know yourself better. But, you know, listen, I'm terrible for this because I've been through the same thing so many times, it's ridiculous. So, you know, all I can say is you're way ahead of where I was at your age.

[Chelsea Handler]

And you also have to remember that you set the tone for, like, who's in your life. You set the standard. Like a personal story for me. Recently, somebody tried to set me up. This was a few months ago, somebody tried to set me up. This person was rich, famous, gorgeous, all of the, like, you know, very attractive qualities. And then I sat, I had a couple of conversations with him before, you know, I decided to go out with him. I was like, let me just, just talk to this guy. Because I don't really want to waste my time. I'm in a place in my life that's not dissimilar from where Martha is, where I enjoy my own company. I like to be alone. I like my time alone. I'm happy alone. I mean, I'm not very self sufficient. So that's where I have a conflict because I need people to help me all the time. But so this guy was all of these things. I talked to this guy three times and I was like, definitely not. This guy talked about himself. Like he didn't ask me any questions about myself. He talked about himself nonstop. Everything was about him and his schedule and his what, his work, and when he was shooting this and when he would be available to meet based on his openings. And I was like, oh, this is a huge red flag. Like, this is not a relationship. This is not somebody I want to be in a relationship with. And the biggest narcissist that I ever dated, and I've dated a couple, but I don't have a repeated pattern of dating narcissists, but one I did like. It's very obvious when someone is out for themselves and their own best interests supersede yours. Like that is a very obvious thing to identify. So now that you've had exposure to that, you should have no problem identifying it.

[Caller Dev]

Yeah, and I already had the epiphany that I was the common denominator in this pattern. And so the call's coming from inside the house and, and working on that.

[Martha Plimpton]

But also, just remember, a common theme today is don't get down on yourself. You know, these guys, they're the problem.

[Asma Khalid]

Absolutely.

[Martha Plimpton]

You're looking for something that is exciting and interesting and makes you feel loved and appreciated and they're the ones who are disappointing, not you. So it's okay to not be down on yourself and to go, you know what? But sure, there are obviously, or maybe there are things about your childhood or where you come from that make you seek out a thing that you wanna repair from your past. But that's not a fault, that's not a flaw. That's a normal human thing that all human beings do. It's a question of whether or not the person that you seek out is able to see that and respect it and meet you where you are. That's what it's about. Yeah, don't bring yourself down. Don't talk yourself down. You know, talk them down, they're the assholes.

[Chelsea Handler]

And talk yourself up for, you know, knowing that there's a problem. You change. If you change your behavior, you're gonna change the outcome. You know what I mean? That's as simple as it gets. So as long as you start making better decisions and identifying patterns of behavior, which you're doing by calling in, by admitting all of this, you're going to change and you're gonna. And the men you're gonna date are gonna change as well.

[Caller Dev]

I do feel like I've already had a change from feeling like so wounded in my ego to realizing that I am not my ego. And the fact that someone else wasn't able to value me and everything I have to offer doesn't diminish my value.

[Chelsea Handler]

Great.

[Guest/Caller]

Yes.

[Caller Dev]

And like, I have not to toot my own horn, but such a bright light that I can share and touch in so many people's lives that it's their loss. Boss. Fully, completely hard. Stop. He is such a loser.

[Guest/Caller]

Love it.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love your self talk. That's good for all of our listeners.

Focus more on that. Yes, focus more on that. And you know what? You're in your 20s and dating, dating sucks in your 20s. You know, maybe that's part of the common denominator that, you know, dating always sucks. It does always suck.

[Caller Dev]

Thank you so much and it's been really good to talk to you. Nice to meet you, Martha. Chelsea, I've listened to your podcast for a long time and I applied some of the advice. I heard your voice in my head and I was writing in in the middle of my crash. Out time has already kind of done its thing. But talking to you here today, I feel rejuvenated and that I'm going in the right direction.

[Chelsea Handler]

I love it. You are going in the right direction. Thanks for calling in, Deb.

[Caller Dev]

Yeah, thank you.

[Asma Khalid]

Bye.

[Guest/Caller]

Bye.

[Martha Plimpton]

Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is where 25 year olds are at with their mental health and their personal growth. Like they're talking about, like, moving toward the light and their attachment styles and, you know, nothing. And their ego. I think it's great.

[Asma Khalid]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

I didn't find out about my ego until I was about 35 years old. So it seems people seem to be way ahead of the game. Boys too young. Boys too, for the most part, they seem to be with it a little bit more than guys our age. I feel like there's an expiration date. Like Everybody who's above 50 as a white male needs to be updated. Like an iPhone update.

[Martha Plimpton]

They need a software update.

[Chelsea Handler]

Exactly. Okay, we're gonna be right back with Martha Plimpton. To wrap up today's episode with one last question. Do we have one last question?

We do have one last question.

[Guest/Caller]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

We'll be right back.

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We do this is another like parent behaving badly, but it's sort of a different situation. So Ali says. Dear Chelsea, I'm a 30 year old woman with a husband and daughter and my dad is driving me fucking nuts. My parents had me when they were young and were never married and separated when I was too little to even remember them being together. But my dad was always very involved in my life. My parents co parented fantastically and had a close friendship. He contributed greatly to paying for my college, never missed a child support payment and was the furthest thing from a deadbeat dad. We got along great during my childhood. He was like the Disneyland dad type of parent. And then in 2019 I started therapy and I have started consuming a lot of what I call therapy podcasts like yours. Being in therapy, becoming a mom, and learning about attachment styles, mindfulness and boundary setting has been a huge transformation for me. Without sounding too patronizing, I'm now hyper aware of everyone's emotional maturity around me and this has led to my dad driving me fucking nuts. I think he has undiagnosed adhd, anxious attachment and he's very paranoid of other people. Since my daughter was born, he's very needy of my attention, sometimes calling me multiple times a day. He's disrespectful of boundaries and will frequently say things like, I need to come over this week or I'm running errands, but I'm gonna call you soon, so make sure you pick up or you better stop breastfeeding soon. He calls me all the time, but will only talk about himself and has a lot of dish. Difficulty paying attention to what I'm saying. Or he just wants to sit on the phone and has nothing to really say. He's an ass to his girlfriend. He constantly interrupts her and tells her what to do. He owns his own company, is very bossy to everyone around him. I've noticed a lot of patterns of misogyny where he pretty aggressively complains about the women in his life and judges mothers. Every time I try to set a boundary, he pushes back. If he's on a paranoid rant about someone who's bothering him and I try to offer other perspectives, he gets annoyed and defensive. It's becoming intolerable to spend time with him, and I feel myself being short and more confrontational with him. My question is, how do you cope with maintaining a positive relationship with a loved one who drives you up the wall? Am I being the asshole? After going through therapy, do I now just require everyone around me to also be in therapy in order for me to stand them? Thanks for reading this very long email and I apologize for any typos, as I am dyslexic. I got that from him, too.

Allie, I would send that letter to your father. Seriously?

[Martha Plimpton]

Why not?

[Chelsea Handler]

I mean, he's not gonna fucking listen. I would send exactly that letter and go, I had to write into a podcast because of how much time you're taking up out of my life. Because it's right there.

In that way, yeah.

It's much more effective, in my opinion, to put something in writing, because saying it out loud, it can be obfuscated and it could be turned around and it can be manipulated. And if you put it there, he can reflect and look back on it. And while it's harsh, some people really need to be treated harshly so that they can actually get their shit together. And yet I would demand that he has to go to therapy in order to be around you.

Yeah.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah.

[Chelsea Handler]

Martha, thoughts?

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah, I agree. I agree. So I say, even just send the letter that you wrote into the podcast, like, verbatim. However he's gonna respond, at least you've gotten it off your chest and you've said it. And then once you've said it, then you can go, okay, this is what I was talking about. In that letter. Yeah. So I gotta go, right? Or this is what I was talking about in that letter. And I'm gonna end this conversation now or I'm gonna hang up now. You know what I mean? And you don'. Say it meanly and you don't have to get angry. You don't even have to raise your voice. You have to go. See, this is what I was talking about. So if you want to take note and maybe change it, that would be great. Otherwise, I got to go now.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, I love that because pointing it out in the moment of like, did you hear how you just talked to your girlfriend? Or did you hear how you just bossed that person around? Or like, what would you know about breastfeeding? And when it's time to stop, you know, pointing those out. Exactly.

[Martha Plimpton]

When I feel like asking questions about. Of these people is usually a road to ruin for me. It's not about asking questions. It's about, okay, this is what I was talking about. And this is what bothers me. And if you wanna change it, that's great. If you don't, goodbye. It's very cut and dried with me, particularly with men. I just feel like it's very important not to leave them an inch. Not an inch, because they will take it. They will take it and they will run and they will take. Literally. I mean, it's the oldest expression in the book because it's true. You know, you give men an inch and they take a mile. Laying down those boundaries and also knowing that you're right, you don't have to argue. You don't have to argue with him. You don't have to tell him, you know, anything other than what it is. You just say, look, this behavior is just not okay with me. And I'm not gonna get into it. I'm not gonna fight with you. I don't have time for that. So you can change it and that will be great. And we'll have a lovely afternoon or a great conversation. Or I can get off the phone and not talk to you today.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yeah, exactly.

[Martha Plimpton]

It's that simple.

[Chelsea Handler]

I think you should really be firm in your response and, you know, in your act of telling him. That's a very firm way of telling him.

[Martha Plimpton]

And show him the letter first. Then he has the reference points. That's his reference point.

[Chelsea Handler]

Right.

[Martha Plimpton]

And then. And you don't have. It's not a discussion. Discussion. We're not talking about this. This is the way it is from now on. Because I think men, they want to have a discussion. So they can talk you out of it or, you know, make it seem like this is all your fault or whatever. No, don't. No. Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then if all else fails, give them a software upgrade.

Yeah, good luck with that. Okay, well, I hope you are enjoying Martha Plimpton on Task, which is on hbo, right?

[Asma Khalid]

Hbo.

[Martha Plimpton]

Yeah. Sunday nights.

[Chelsea Handler]

Yes, Sunday nights. And then I think the season, by the time this airs, I think we're gonna be on the season finale.

[Caller Dev]

Yes.

[Chelsea Handler]

And then we'll be looking forward to you on east of Eden. I cannot fucking wait for that. Thank you, Martha, for sharing your wonderful wisdom about men.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you so much. This was really fun. I really appreciate it.

[Chelsea Handler]

Love it. And have a great time in London.

[Martha Plimpton]

Thank you. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

Bye.

[Martha Plimpton]

Bye.

[Chelsea Handler]

I just announced all my tour dates. They just went on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be starting in February of next year, so I will be touring from February through June. I haven't added second shows yet, but we probably will be to some of these. So go get your tickets now if you want good seats and you want to come see me perform. I will be on the high and most mighty chore.

Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write into dearchelseapodcastmail.com Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching earchelseapod. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Kathryn Law. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

You know that feeling when you come home late from work and those puppy dog eyes just pierce right through your soul? Yeah. Yep, we've all been there. Pet parent guilt is real and completely normal. That's exactly why Hill's Pet Nutrition exists. They understand that being a pet parent means being human. Hill's Science led nutrition helps you give more love than humanly possible. Whether it's those long work days or trying to balance the tension between multiple pets, Hill's Pet Nutrition gets it because you're only human. There's Hills. Science does more. Ready to let go of the guilt? Find the right [e-mail] iheart that's hillspet.com.

[Guest/Caller]

Iheart America is changing and so is the world.

[Martha Plimpton]

But what's happening in America isn't just the cause of global upheaval. It's also a symptom of disruption that's happening everywhere.

[Asma Khalid]

I'm Asma Khalid in Washington D.C. i'm.

[Martha Plimpton]

Tristan Redman in London, and this is the Global Storm.

[Asma Khalid]

Every weekday we'll bring you a story from this intersection where the world and America meet.

[Martha Plimpton]

Listen on BBC.com or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores. That means no small talk. Crazy weather we're having. No, it's not. It's just weather. It is an introvert's dream. Give it a [e-mail] Switch upfront payment.

[Commercial Voice]

Of $45 for three month plan.

[Chelsea Handler]

$15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, Taxes and fees extra.

[Bowen Yang]

See mintmobile.com this is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And guess what? I'm Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And guess what? What? I'm stressed. I got invited to a friendsgiving and now there's the big question of what to bring. Well, just bring a bottle of Casamigos. Oh, Casamigos.

[Asma Khalid]

Of course.

[Bowen Yang]

Nothing brings people together like a batch of Casamigos margaritas. A Casamigos margarita really is the perfect cocktail. Plus, Casamigos goes with everything. Turkey, stuffing, Mac and cheese. Oh, I was thinking more cranberry juice or ginger beer, but that works too. Well. You know the iconic rule of culture number 743. Anything goes with my Casamigos. This friendsgiving. You know what everyone will be grateful for?

[Chelsea Handler]

Cosamigos.

[Bowen Yang]

I was going to say you and Cosmigos. Oh, let's keep it in that order. Please Drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila, 40% alcohol by volume.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is an I heart podcast.