Mitch Albom (3:49)

Yeah.

Chelsea Handler (3:49)

Oh, seriously. Like one of those hats that basically, like, hides your head from the sun. But then I realized, like, I look so much better with sun. I might as well just get some sun and then laser it off when I get back. But I don't really have a lot of downtime. When I got back. I mean, I've been sleeping so much in Mallorca. I drove 45 minutes. I was like, okay, I've got to take Doug to a real beach, because the beach in front of my house is great, but there's no dogs allowed on it until October 31st. Until October 31st. Oh, it's like, while people are swimming, there's no dogs. I get it. Yeah. Until October 31st. Like, past October 31st. And I'm like, what? That's the day I leave. But so I go in the mornings and I go at night. But I was like, oh, let me take him to a really nice dog beach. So I drove 45 minutes to Palma to some shithole beach where there were dogs running. And I see this big German shepherd. I'm like, oh, that looks scary. And Doug is like, you know, he's playful. He wants to play with everyone. He goes up and he bothers them, like, until they play with him, the puppy. And this dog was like. She said into me in Spanish. Is that immature? Like, an older dog or a younger dog? I'm like, younger. And she's like, no. And then the dog just launched. Launched onto Doug and, like, grabbed him. Luckily, Doug is so furry that he didn't break his skin because he was holding onto him. And I was, like, ripping him. It was such a dramatic scene. Oh, my God. I'm so sorry. It's okay. He was fine. He forgot about it. Two seconds later, we went to a different part of the beach, and he was, like, submerged in sand and water. So he has a short memory. But so then we get home, and he's covered in sand because he went in this really low, sandy beach, and I don't want the sand in the house, Right? So they got him a little kiddie pool to put him in. He Hates that. He hates being hosed. So I bring him upstairs to the pool pool. And there's like, we have a little mini pool, as you know, upstairs America. I bring him up to the pool pool, I put on his life preserver and I just pick him up and.

Mitch Albom (5:39)

Throw him in the pool.

Chelsea Handler (5:41)

And it was ridiculous. His reaction. I mean, he is such a pussy.

Mitch Albom (5:46)

So.

Chelsea Handler (5:47)

And then when, after I traumatize him, he comes running to me for comfort. So I feel like a man who abuses his wife. I feel terrible, but I can't take the sand. I'm like, doug, you have to agree to one form of rinse off. Right, right. It's the hose, the kiddie pool, or the big people pool. I know. He's got so much hair. It gets, like, in all the nooks and crannies. So if you didn't wash him off afterward, it'd be coming out for days and days and days. No, I mean, there's so much sand in my bed. I've given up caring about that. I just am like, take another Xanax. Just like a nice exfoliant, I suppose.

Mitch Albom (6:17)

Yeah.

Chelsea Handler (6:18)

Yeah, I'm going to need a nice exfoliant. Yeah, Doug's going to need a real nice exfoliant, actually, anyway, so that's nice. It's going to be really n. Being alone and not having people here and just being with me and my dog. Yeah, usually you have a big crowd. I've made hard boiled eggs about 13 times. I know how to do. You're coming around. I've made egg whites about four times. I've made. What else? What else? Oh, I make y. Well, I don't make yogurt, but I mix the yogurt. She didn't say she was going to.

Mitch Albom (6:48)

Bring those eggs in the airplane.

Chelsea Handler (6:49)

Catherine, don't get ahead of yourself. No, I did not say that. I. Get rid of it. Thank you for chiming in. Exactly. Good timing, Brad. However, we have a great episode this week. One of my favorite authors, he wrote the Little Liar, he wrote Tuesdays with Maury, and he wrote my new favorite book twice. Mitch Albom is here, so say hello to him. Hi, Mitch.

Mitch Albom (7:11)

Yeah. Hello.

Chelsea Handler (7:12)

Hi. So nice to meet you. How are you?

Mitch Albom (7:15)

I'm fine, thank you. My pleasure. Nice to meet you, too.

Chelsea Handler (7:17)

Nice to meet you. I'm a huge Mitch Albom fan. Huge.

Mitch Albom (7:21)

Is that right?

Chelsea Handler (7:22)

Oh, yes. The Little Liar is. I've given that book to so many people. It is one of my favorite books. It takes such a dark subject matter and I don't know if this was your intention, but the way that I read it was. It was almost like a fable, like you were talking about something that really happened but managed to make it more digestible. And it was beautiful and everything. I mean, this book is so beautiful too. This book. His new book is called Twice. It comes out on October 7th. And this is a very interesting subject matter. Mitch Albom has written, I think, eight number one New York Times bestsellers. I'm right behind you, Mitch, by the way. I have six number one New York Times bestsellers, but mine are more memoirs.

Mitch Albom (8:03)

And yours, I'm sure you'll pass me very quickly.

Chelsea Handler (8:06)

I don't know, 42 million copies. I don't think I'm anywhere close to that. I mean, I have a very specific personality type and appeal. And yours is much vaster. So we're going to get into this book, but you tend to write some. Like Tuesdays with Maury, which was one of the most, or maybe the most successful book of all time. Wasn't necessarily. I mean, it was memoir. Ish. Whereas Twice and the Little Liar, the five people you meet in heaven. Right. That book I actually haven't read yet. I'm gonna read that on my flight to New York this week. That's one of your books that I need to read. How do you decide what you're gonna do? I mean, I know the story with Tuesdays with Maury. Right. You were kind of doing that for Maury. Yeah.

Mitch Albom (8:45)

Tuesdays of Maury was an accident. I was just going to visit an old professor of mine who was dying from Lou Gehrig's disease. And one visit turned into another and another, and we ended up doing kind of a last class together. And what's important in life once you know you're going to die? But there was never supposed to be a book. It was just a series of visits. And then at one point during these visits, he told me that his biggest fear was that when he died, his family was going to go broke and they were going to have to sell the house and, you know, because they didn't have the money to pay for his bills. So I got the idea to, you know, try to put a book together and see if I could raise enough money for him to pay his bills. And everywhere I went, everybody turned me down. Everybody. They. They said it was a stupid idea that I was a sports writer, that I was. It would be depressing that I didn't know how to write a book like that. And I probably would have given up on It. Except that, you know, I was trying to do something for somebody else, which is kind of one of the points of the book. And so I kept pushing. I found one publisher who was willing to do it three weeks before Maury died and gave us just enough money to pay his bills. And I gave Maury all the money and said, here, you don't have to worry about when you die. And that was kind of, for me, that was sort of the end of the, you know, journey. You know, I had finally kind of grown up a little bit at age 37 and had done something nice for somebody else instead of just my own career. And I was going to go back to sports writing. And I just wrote this very small little book that wasn't supposed to sell. They printed 20,000 total copies, I think, for the world. Then, you know, the world had different ideas, and people took to that book, and it grew into something that I never could have imagined. And it kind of pinballed my career, particularly in writing, in a whole different direction. And so then from that point, you know, it was, well, what am I going to do next? And, you know, it led to a lot of other things.

Chelsea Handler (10:41)

So talk to me a little bit about the impact of that book and about how you received all of that.

Mitch Albom (10:48)

You know, it wasn't expected. And I'd never written a book like that. You know, I was in sports. And so I sent it to a friend of mine, Amy Tan, who's the writer of the Joy Luck Club, who I'd known before, before that. And I said, listen, you write books like this. I don't, you know, is this any good? And she read it, and she wrote me back. She said, all right, I'm going to tell you two things. One, it's a good book, and I think a lot of people are going to read it. And number two, you're about to become everybody's rabbi. And I did not know what she meant, but I do now. And so you say, how did I receive? You know, I mean, I went from being the guy that people would stop in airports because I was on espn, and they would say, hey, sports guy, who's going to win the Super Bowl? And you could just say Patriots and get in the escalator and go up. And then all of a sudden, I became the guy that people would say, hey, my mother died of cancer. And the last thing we did was read Tuesdays with Maury together. And can I talk to you about her? And can I show you a picture? And you can't just go Patriots and go up the escalator, you have to stop and you have to talk. And. And that's been my life ever since. And I'm not complaining about it. Quite the contrary. It's sensitized me in a way to people that I never would have had otherwise. And it's made me realize what's really going on in people's minds, even if they're strangers passing you by in an airport. And my concerns became kind of different, you know, and my interests became different. And so when it came time to write another book, I wasn't interested really in sports books anymore. And I took to novel writing, mostly because I was too scared to write anything after Tuesdays with Maury and nonfiction, because I thought everybody would just keep saying, well, where's Maury? How come Maury's not in it? So I said, well, I'll just go the whole other direction and just start writing fiction. And they told me I was an idiot for doing that, but I said, well, that's what you told me for Tuesdays with Maury. So you weren't right then. Maybe you won't be right again. And. And that was the five people you meet in heaven. And that kind of launched my fiction writing career.

Chelsea Handler (12:52)

Wow. Who knows what other skills you have up your sleeve that you don't even know about? I mean, you're a sports. You've been a successful sports writer, a successful nonfiction writer, and now a successful fiction writer. I mean, we don't even know what else you could be capable of.

Mitch Albom (13:05)

Well, who knows? Probably very little.

Chelsea Handler (13:08)

Maybe a professional ballerina or. I think it's a ballerina, actually, if it's a male ballerina. Okay, so five people you meet in heaven. How did you conceptualize that? Like, obviously, you're taking a big. Because I. In the writing world, I understand, like, you like anything. I think professionally, once you get put in one corner, people want to keep you there and they want you to keep producing. What was the most successful. So how did you conceptualize the five people you meet in heaven?

Mitch Albom (13:34)

Well, it's funny you asked that. And, you know, one of the reasons I was interested in talking to you is because I feel that you probably have endured the same thing. You know, you've probably been told, well, you're stand up comic, so you can't host a show. You host a show, so you can't host a podcast, you host a. But, you know, you can't, you can't, you can't. And I was certainly told that, you know, after Tuesdays with Maury, which nobody wanted then. All anybody wanted was Wednesdays with Maury, you know. And every time I went into a publisher, they would say, yeah, but, you know, give us another Maury book and give us. I said, I don't have any more Maury books. I said everything I had to say. But I do have this idea for this novel. And the idea of the novel was I wanted to write about people who feel that they don't matter. And so I came up with this idea based on an old uncle of mine who had told me a story about he had a near death experience where he had died and he had seen all his relatives waiting for him at the edge of his bed before he kind of came back into his body and lived again. And I always had this idea that that's what happens when you die. And so I came up with this idea that there would be this old guy, kind of like my uncle, World War II vet, who died trying to save a little girl from an accident at a pier where he worked an amusement park. And a cart falls and he goes to push her out of the way and he feels these two little hands in her hands. And then he dies. And he doesn't know if he saves her or not. And he goes to heaven and he finds out that the first stage of heaven is you meet five people from your life, each of whom was in your life for some reason. Maybe you knew them, maybe you didn't know them, maybe it was a relative, maybe it was someone you spent two minutes with, but in some way they changed your life and you changed their life forever. And with each person he meets, he finds out that he was very significant, you know, and that this is something that he did that they didn't think mattered. Change this and change that change. And he keeps asking them, well, what happened? At the end of my life, I felt these two little hands in my hands, you know, Did I push the girl out of the way? Did I save her? Did I save her? And nobody can tell him until the end. And the last person that he meets is a little girl who he was responsible for killing during the war. And he didn't, he never knew about it. And he says, you know, after she tells him and he breaks down and she tells him, he says to her, but did I save the little girl? Just tell me that. Was my life worth something? Did I push her out of the way? And he says, and she says, no, you pulled her, you know. And he says, well, no, I felt her hands. And she says, no, those were My hands and I was bringing you to heaven. And the reason that I tell you that story is because when I went around to different publishers to tell them the story, Five People youe Meet in Heaven, I went to this one place called Hyperion, and it was the only place that was willing to listen to me about writing a novel. Everyone else just wanted Wednesdays with Maury. And they said, well, we'll hear you your story. What is it? And I told him the story, and it got to that point where he says. The little girl says to him, those were my hands and I was bringing you to heaven. And a woman in the room burst into tears, and she said, oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So, you know, and I said, no, it's okay. It's okay. So they said to me, we want this book. We don't want Wednesdays with Maury. We want this book. This is going to be a really good book. So I left that meeting and I went and got in the elevator with my literary agent, and I said, okay, two things. Number one, let's sign with this company because they were willing to do a novel and they want to do it. And number two, whoever that woman was, I want her to be my editor. And that woman became my editor for the next four books that I wrote. And she always joked around that that was the luckiest cry that she ever had.

Chelsea Handler (17:17)

I love that story.

Mitch Albom (17:20)

Yeah.

Chelsea Handler (17:20)

So, I mean, Wednesdays with Maury's is such a. It's so emblematic. First of all, Maury's dead, so I don't know what Wednesdays with Maury would look like. It does. It's so emblematic of our, like, you know, creative worlds, like the people, the decision makers in creative lands. And another thing that, in you telling us that story reminds me of is my favorite quote of all time, which is, it doesn't matter how many people say no. You just need one person. All you need is one person. And everyone gets so fixated on the rejection in any sort of creative endeavor and on a larger scale, in any endeavor, you know, people get so hung up on the rejection, and it doesn't matter how many people don't get you. It just matters that somebody does, and somebody gives you the green light to go ahead with your creative ideas. So this is another example of that being so true. And, yeah, I love that. I mean, I almost burst into tears now. I'm like, do I have to read the book? But I will read the book because I just love your writing so much. Let's Talk about the Little Liar. I'm so curious as to how you create these kinds of ideas for the books, because your books are so disparate. Like, each one is so different than the. Than the next. And how. How does one come up with that, like the concept of lying and how a lie can spread and change the course of history?

Mitch Albom (18:35)

Well, I think the reason that my books are different one from the other is because I tend not to approach writing, certainly not novels, the way that most people do. Most of my writer friends, they come up sort of with a plot. You know, they've got an idea that this is going to happen or a couple characters going to do this. I never do that. I always try to come up with a theme and that I want to write about. And then once I say, okay, I'm really interested in that theme, then I try to create a story around that theme. And that's probably why every story sort of comes out different. So the five people you mean having the theme was that people who don't think they matter should find out that everybody matters. And then I created a whole heaven and everything around that because it served the theme. The Little Liar. I actually. I went to a. I went to a Holocaust museum in Israel on a book tour about 10 years ago and went into this Yad Vashem is. It's the really big Holocaust museum that they have there. And on the walls are all these videos of people that were collected a lot by Steven Spielberg, I think, when he was making Schindler's List. And they just run constantly. You know, they're always running. It's just people recollecting different moments about the Holocaust. And one of them I stood in front of, and this woman was an older woman, and she was saying, Everybody always asks me, why did we get on those trains when they knew that they were going to concentration camps and we were going to be murdered, why didn't we fight back? And she said, they don't understand that we were lied to, that they would use Jewish people to lie to us and to tell us that we were going to new jobs or new homes. And that's how they got us onto the trains. And these Jewish people, they only lied to us because they were being threatened themselves, that their families would be killed if they didn't do what they said. And I always thought, wow, there's got to be some kind of story there, because what a terrible. I mean, war is awful and Holocaust is awful. But then to make your own people lie to their own people and leave them to their deaths. How would you live with telling that lie? But it seems so dark to me, Chelsea. You know, like, it's like, God, I'm getting depressed just even thinking about that. Who's going to want to read that? And then I. About a couple of years ago, I said, what if I told that story because I wanted to write something about the truth? Because I think it's pretty obvious that in the last couple years, truth has become a relative term, you know? And it really does affect the world, you know, no matter what your particular view of it is. I mean, if you can't trust the things that you're hearing or people that you're hearing them from, it changes everything.

Chelsea Handler (21:09)

I think you said it right there, what your view of it is. You know, there shouldn't be different views of the truth. The truth is the truth. But now there are multiple. There's multi. Multiverses.

Mitch Albom (21:21)

Right? So I thought, what if I make it that it's a kid instead of an adult who would know better? What if it's a kid who's never told a lie before in his life and he gets tricked into telling his own people that it's okay to get on these trains? And how would he live with that? And that's when I knew I had a book and I started exploring it. And that's what happens to little Nico in this story that he's never told a lie before. He's Greek. He lives in this Greek village, and he's known for just being a kid who can't tell a lie. And the first lie that he tells is when a Nazi tricks him into telling the people on the trains that everything's going to be okay and get on the trains. And he does this for three weeks, until the last day, he sees his own family being put in one of these train cars, and he runs to want to join them, and the Nazi doesn't let him go. And he says, but I want to go with them. I want to go to the new jobs and the new homes. And the guy, the Nazi says, there are no new homes, you stupid Jew. You know? And in that moment, he realizes that he's told a lie and his family is sent away and he's left behind. And from that point forward, he can never tell the truth again. He becomes this pathological liar. Which seems to me. Chelsea, I don't know. That seemed to me like that would be kind of the natural thing that would happen. Your mind would so explode, that truth would just become almost poison because of. Look at what happened with it? And he becomes this pathological liar. And it follows him and his family and this girl who loves him for the next 30, 40 years on their different paths. It was a really hard book to write because, you know, every day you're immersed in. I mean, you have to write as a Nazi, you know. You know, I don't ever want to imagine that I could know what's in the head of a Nazi, but I had to. And so it was exhausting. And when I finished it, I was proud of it, and I was glad that I wrote. I always wanted to write one book for Holocaust literature to contribute to that. I think it's important that that's not forgotten. But I didn't want to write the such and such of Auschwitz. A lot of books have been done similarly. And so I wanted to come up with an original idea, and I think I did. And I'm very pleased and honored that you think that that's a good book. It means a lot to me.

Chelsea Handler (23:39)

And you fictionalize, like Nazis. You fictionalize Hitler in the book instead of calling him by his name. Why do you do that? Just under the umbrella of fiction.

Mitch Albom (23:49)

No, I didn't want his name in any of my books, okay? So I just referred to him as the Wolf, which is how he referred to himself. Actually. Everything in the Little Liar is historically accurate. Everything except the characters who I invented and put in. I. I researched the hell out of that book. I went to Thessalonica and met with a bunch of people and saw. Even the house that he lives in is a real address in that city, because I just wanted it to ring. Trying to make up something during the Holocaust will never be as poignant or as moving as basing stuff off of real things that happen, because in that period of time, the real things that happened were just so moving and so horrifying and so inspirational in some ways. Even the moment where his grandfather, all the family is in the concentration camp in Auschwitz, and the grandfather, every night makes them all gather together and pray and say thank you for whatever they had during the day. And you can imagine, what can people say. How can you say thank you for anything when you're in a concentration camp? And he makes them go around everyone in the family. And one of them will say, I'm thankful that I got an extra spoonful of soup. And one says, you know, the guard who always beats me was off today, so I didn't get beaten. And one says, the tooth, my rotted tooth fell out of my mouth. And one says, I saw a bird, you know, and just that. That notion of having hope even under the most dire of circumstances, you can't make that stuff up. You know, I, I read about moments like that in listening to survivors talk or tapes of survivors talk, and just, and just kind of created my own thing that was parallel to theirs. But trying to create it from whole cloth is foolish. The stuff that happened is so inspirational. You might as well use it as your inspiration.

Chelsea Handler (25:38)

And what is your process? Like, what does it mean when you're gonna sit down and write a book? And what does that mean to your family? Like, are you gone?

Mitch Albom (25:47)

Yeah. Means bye bye. Yeah. My wife and all my family kind of know when I'm in a book mode. I kind of just walk around with a glassy expression for the better part of eight or nine months. And my wife has to repeat things to me many times. But my process isn't as dramatic as I think. People like to imagine it. I just get up in the morning and come down here. Where I am is my office, and just sit down. Very, very first thing. I don't read anything, I don't listen to anything. I don't turn on, I don't turn on a computer or television. I want a fresh, fresh head, you know, And I find that I only really have that when I first wake up. And I just write for the next two and a half, three hours maybe, and then that's it. And I could sit there for another eight hours, but nothing is, nothing's going to come. And so I've learned that, you know, you kind of, you go until your tank is empty and then you come back and do it again. I do always try to. And on a positive, like if I'm in the middle of a good paragraph or something, I stop myself because I find like when you wake up in the next morning, you, you look forward to coming down and, and working on it if, if you left it someplace good, but if you left it in the middle of a really bad paragraph, you're gonna just stay in bed.

Chelsea Handler (27:09)

Oh, that's great. I love that. That's great. Yeah. So have you ever read the book or. It's not really. Well, it is a book. Daily Rituals. Have you ever seen that book where it talks about writers, processes? It's all these different famous painters, sculptors, artists, writers, creators, creatives and what they do. And it talks about the first few hours of each day and then it talks about how you need some physical, you need a physical break, you need some sort of exercise, food. And then people Like Hemingway would, you know, get shit faced at 2:30 in the afternoon, come back and start writing again after their walk and to the bar and back. But so many people, I mean, it's very well researched that the first few hours of your day are your most creative and where you have the freshest ideas. But I love the idea of not looking at anything when you sit down. That's fresh advice.

Mitch Albom (27:59)

I'll tell you. The other really good piece of advice I got with regard to writing came when I was really, really young and I was just starting out. I was in New York and I had been a musician and I was kind of transitioning out of being a musician. And I got a job writing for a TV shopper magazine that they would give out in the supermarkets. But they would have a feature story on the COVID which is really embarrassing. I look back on it because I would call people saying, hi, I'm Mitch Albom, I'm writing for TV Shopper and I'd like to interview you. I can't believe. And they wanted famous people would agree to be interviewed to be on the TV Shopper magazine. And one of them was this photographer whose name escapes me, but it was kind of like Scavullo. You know, he's really well known back then. And I went and interviewed him and he said, I somehow asked him, you know, how did you get started? What's your process? Or something like that. He said, well, when I was really young, there was a photographer like me, you know, well known and everything. And I really respected him. So I took a bunch of pictures and I sent my best stuff and I sent it off to him and asked if he could give me any advice. He said, I waited, I waited. And about three months later I got an envelope back with my pictures and a note. And the note said, it's obvious to me that you've mastered the basics of good photography now. Surround yourself with the best music, the best art, the best books, the best film, and everything else will take care of itself. And that was it. That was the total advice that he had. And he said, I found that to be. At first I thought it was kind of flippant, but then I found it to be true because there's an osmosis that takes place if you do surround yourself with other things. A lot of writers think, well, all I should do is just read, read, read, read, read. You know, a lot of musicians think that all I should do is just, you know, play, play, play, play, play. But there's an osmosis that takes place with other forms of art that I think sink into you and affect you. You know, my having been a musician I find is a great asset in writing because I write with a rhythm, you know, and I can tell with a paragraph isn't. Because I can kind of like, I write like, like this. And if I stop and if I, well, I'm not, my head's not shaking anymore. Must be, this isn't working, you know, and then I'll change something and then I'll go back, oh, I got it back again, you know, so there's a lot of cross influence from the different arts. And I thought that was a good piece of advice too.

Chelsea Handler (30:22)

Yeah, that's great advice. Okay, so we're gonna take a break with Mitch Albom and we'll be right back. And we're back with Mitch album Foreign let's be real. Life happens, kids spill, pets shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep up@washablesofas.com Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Neat flexibility. Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a split, stress free, mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Mitch Albom (31:33)

In the new podcast, Hell in Heaven, two young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over.

Chelsea Handler (31:41)

But one will end up dead, the other tried for murder. Not once. Once people went wild. Not twice, stunned, but three times. John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive and they're devoted to each other.

Mitch Albom (31:59)

They create a nature reserve and build.

Chelsea Handler (32:01)

A spectacular circular home high on the.

Mitch Albom (32:04)

Top of a hill.

Chelsea Handler (32:06)

But little by little, their dream starts to crumble and our couple retreats from reality.

Mitch Albom (32:13)

They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts. Until one night, everything spins out of control.

Chelsea Handler (32:23)

Listen to Hell in Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie. For Almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist, and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Mitch Albom (32:55)

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

Chelsea Handler (32:58)

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

Mitch Albom (33:07)

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Chelsea Handler (33:14)

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer, and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Mitch Albom (33:24)

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

Chelsea Handler (33:30)

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her from Lava. For good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

Mitch Albom (33:48)

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

Chelsea Handler (33:57)

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. It's Ana Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life we're best friends. And I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty.

Mitch Albom (34:35)

Yay.

Chelsea Handler (34:36)

Woo hoo. Can you believe it has been almost 20 years? I. That's not even possible. Well, you're the only one that looks that much different. I look exactly the same. We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before. You're gonna hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Urie, Becky Newton, Tony Plana, and so many more icons. Each and every one, all of a sudden, like, someone like, comes running up to me and it's Salma Hayek. And she's like, you are my Ugly Betty. And I was like, what is she even talking about? Listen to Viva Betty as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, so let's talk about this newest book twice, which is another great concept, which is this young boy finds out very early on in his life as his mother is about to pass away, that he has the ability to redo things, but he doesn't have the ability to redo them twice. He can only redo them once. I mean, he could do it twice, but he can't go back infinite, right? So at certain point, like, there was a point in the book where I was confused because he goes so far back, so he's redoing things that he's already redone. Right. How do you square that? Because at one point, he goes all the way back many, many years, and he's already redone so many things along the way.

Mitch Albom (36:09)

One of the problems when you create a magical world is then you have to live by your rules, you know, Exactly. And. And you. And you keep saying, well, what are the rules here again? And then at some point, you realize, like, you know what? I created the rules. I'm just gonna. Just gonna write it, and everyone will have to go along with it. But, yeah, the premise of the story is that he has the power to do anything in his life again, but only one time, and he has to live with the consequences the second time. So, for example, he misses a shot to end the game, a basketball game, and he goes back to take that same shot again. And that time he gets hit in the jaw and breaks his jaw. He can't go back to the first one and say, I'll just take missing the shot. He has to live with the broken jaw going forward. And the presumption is that everything else that happens going forward sort of happens the same way that it happened before, that he can't really undo any of those things. But the idea of it was to address again, like, the theme, like I've told you, you know, I just try to find a theme this theme was about, but the grass is always greener concept. And as you get older, you run into a lot of people and you become a person who starts saying, boy, if I could have done this again, my whole life would have been different, or if I only hadn't done that, that it would be different. And I wanted to really explore that and see if it really is necessarily better or worse. And then as I was going along, I said, well, the thing that seems to be the one that people talk about the most or fantasize about the most is love. You know, what if I had married somebody else? What if I had married that guy who asked me and I turned him down? Or what if I had gone on that date with that girl that I was too scared to, or, you know, what if, what if, what if? There's all those things, but we always think we can do better or, you know, our true love is someplace else. And I wanted to sort of explore that idea. So that's what motivated me to write twice.

Chelsea Handler (38:11)

Ed, was that personal at all?

Mitch Albom (38:13)

Well, not in a way. I mean, I'm only. I've been married once and.

Chelsea Handler (38:18)

No, not related to your marriage. Let's not get you into trouble here, but just in your life or like, I mean, obviously that's something that comes up. Like if you could, you know, I always get that question in every interview. Is there anything you regret? And it's like, well, I mean, if I sat down and thought about everything I fucking regretted, we'd be here for hours. I'd rather not think about it. I didn't do it. So I'm here now and while reading this book, you know, which is such a fucking awesome book, and you know, these books are so. They're like nugget sized, you know, they're, they're a nice, like, I mean, they are perfect Saturday afternoon read. It's just a perfect everything. I just love them. And this is like 300 pages. But you, you whip through these books so quickly. Our listeners are big readers, so I just want everyone to know how passionate I am. But when I do think about the possibility, like, I always had this fantasy, if I could just be a straight A student from like kindergarten through high school and actually apply myself and, and really just been like, you know, and then I would have been the prom queen and all of these things. I always used to think that when I was in my 20s, like, if I could have just made my parents been like this model child. And now when I think about the idea of that, it's like, I don't want to go through all of that garbage again. You know, I don't want to go through that life again because then you have to put up with all of the ugliness. You have to re. Experience all of the times where you were sick or someone died or all of those types of things. And it's like, I don't want to. What is your viewpoint after having written something like this? What do you think about that? Like, if you had the opportunity.

Mitch Albom (39:52)

Yeah, I think I had that viewpoint before I even wrote it. And that is. People have asked me the same question, Chelsea, you know, is there anything that you would redo? And I think for some reason they think the person who wrote Tuesdays with Maury is going to answer, oh, absolutely not. Everything that I've done has been, has been for a purpose. And my answer is absolutely. I'll give you like 20 things right now that I would do differently if I had a chance to do them differently. But if you said to me, you have to unlearn everything that you learned from the mistake that you made, then I would say no, because all of the mistakes and all of the regrets and all the things that I did that I would do differently if I was at that moment again, have taught me the things that I have learned now, you know, and have shaped me into the person I am now. I'll give you a perfect example. You talk about a twice in a lifetime opportunity. So when my wife and I got married, we got married kind of late age wise, and we didn't have kids. I was 37, she was 39.

Chelsea Handler (40:58)

Okay.

Mitch Albom (40:58)

And we didn't have kids. And I kind of delayed it, you know, I mean, I delayed getting married, I delayed having kids. I was really into my, my career at that time. And then, and then Tuesdays with Maury happened and that was all going on and, and she really wanted to have kids and, and, and by the time we sort of, you know, were focused, it just didn't happen. And as the years passed, I started to feel like, man, I, you know, really, really missed something there by not having children. But then 16 years ago, I ended up going to Haiti after the earthquake and got involved with an orphanage down there. And one thing led to another, and it's a long story that I don't want to bore you with, but I ended up inheriting an orphanage that I was working at and I have been running that orphanage ever since and go there every month for the last 16 years. And I have well over 100 children who have come through and we have 22 of them up here who are either in college or in medical school now, or some of them got medical care. We have a little three year old daughter now that we adopted from Haiti. And none of that would have happened, I don't think, if I had had kids the first time around, because I would have been involved with that. I wouldn't have gone to Haiti in the first place and probably just wouldn't have had time to do it. So I got this incredible opportunity, but it's only because I learned from my mistake earlier how much I appreciated children. And in fact, today as we're speaking, we took our little girl to school for the first time. It was her first day of school and I got to live that, you know, and it's like, wow, my age, I get to take a little girl to school. I get to hug her. She grabbed me. She said, I don't want to go, you know, and all that, you know, And I, of course, I'm taking pictures of all of this. Because you appreciate, you know, this now. Like, I'm going to need this later. And so to have that opportunity is a miracle. But I don't think it would have happened if I hadn't made the first mistake. So that's just one silly example of my personal life. But I think everybody probably has something in their life that they can look at that way, you know?

Chelsea Handler (43:10)

Yeah. That's so beautiful. I mean, what a gift. What a gift you've been given with that orphanage, and what a gift you've been able to give. Like, the gift is always. You know, sometimes we think we're doing something, and really the gift is ours to take and enjoy. I mean, that is such a beautiful story. Thank you for sharing that. I wanna ask you personally, with all your iterations in your life, like, now we're finding out you were a musician also. Or I'm finding out anyway. And deep down, I do believe one day you will become a ballerino. On a personal level, your evolution and your creative evolution, how has that impacted your life? Because you obviously know that you have the capabilities to do all these different sorts of things. And I would imagine that that adds a lot of personal. I don't want to say confidence, because it's more than that. It's more. It's like there's such value in everything that you're doing. How does that impact you?

Mitch Albom (44:13)

Well, I have had a lot of iterations to my life. When I was younger, I was all about ambition and was all about achievement and accomplishment. I rose very quickly as first I was a musician and I failed. So my first experience was failure. And then I moved into writing and journalism and got into sports writing, and I had the opposite. I had, like, a really fast ascension. And I became a lead columnist at the Detroit newspaper when I was 25 and was traveling around the world and covering sports stories and writing sports books and everything. I was on ESPN multiple times. I worked like 120 hours a week and went pedal to the metal, whatever it is, until I was about 37. And that's when I encountered Maury. And sort of everything kind of screeched to a halt. And he kind of really opened my eyes. You know, he was really somebody that I. That I loved when I was younger and had totally forgotten about and, you know, not forgotten in my brain, but just had paid no attention to because I was so busy, busy, busy. And now here he was, dying, and every Tuesday, it was like hitting the brakes on my life, and no phones, no anything. And we would just sit there, and I felt like I was a student again. I felt like I was back in college. And I was sort of reminded, like, wow, you really have changed. You're not the same person that you used to be when you were listening to him, and not necessarily for the better. And I ended up writing that book. And as I told you a little earlier, it kind of took me over, not the other way around. And whether like it or not, I became a person that people started coming to and asking. You know, they would. Sometimes people would say, maury, what do you. And I go, whoa, I'm not Maury. I'm the stupid one. You know, I'm the one on the other side of the couch. But people do that all the time still, you know, and when you start hearing grieving stories and you're going to hospice, and you're on the board of hospice, and you're going to funeral parlors and you're asked to speak at people's memorials, and you start to change and you become sensitized. And so then I started to realize that I had an obligation maybe to bring that kind of thing to my work. And that writing about games and who's making a tackle or whatever is all well and good, but you might be able to do something else. And I remember Maury said to me one time, what do you do for your community? And I said, what do you mean? And he said, what do you do for charities, for people who are in need? I said, I write checks. And he said, well, anybody can write a chance check, but you've been given a voice, and you need to do something with that voice more than just aggrandize yourself. I remember that because, you know, only a professor uses a word like aggrandize, you know, And I've never forgotten that. You know, that really stays with me. And so I had that part of my life where I started to say, well, okay, you've been given this platform and you've been given this success. What are you going to do with it? Go buy a bigger car? Or are you going to try to help people? And, you know, when I got involved, particularly with Haiti, I'm very involved here in Detroit also, where I live with the city here. And I started and operate a number of charities here. But I think when I got involved in Haiti with the orphanage, that became this whole other chapter of my life where suddenly my life was about kids and their illnesses and, I mean, believe me, Chelsea, I could. I could spend 10 straight hours telling you about scabies and childhood malnutrition and brain disease and cerebral palsy and all kinds of issues that our kids have that nobody pays any attention. There's no food for them, there's no water, no electricity. And I'm trying to figure out how I can get diesel fuel for less than $20 a gallon when someone's calling me and saying, we're making a movie out of your book. And it's like this completely different sort of worlds, you know, that I have to sort of navigate between. And now I'm talking to you, you know, so. So I've. I've learned that life can be a lot of different things, and you can be a lot of different things yourself. And like I said to you, I was anxious to speak to you because I admire the fact that you've done a lot of things yourself and you haven't let people tell you no, you're this. I remember I got a chance to meet Maya Angelou once, and she and I were just talking in a hallway, and I said, can I ask you a question? It's going to seem really weird. She said, yeah. I said, okay, you write poetry, you write fiction, you've been an actress, you've done all this stuff. Has anyone ever told you, just stay with one thing? And she said, yes, and it's the cruelest thing you can ever say to somebody. And I said, well, why do you say that? She said, because it's telling a bird that it shouldn't fly. And I thought that that was really beautiful. And she said, don't ever let anybody tell a bird that it can't fly. And so I've tried to sort of live my life that way and not worry about the category that I'm in. But if I feel like I have something to contribute or something to offer in some way, or I can help somebody or I can write something, and whether it be a book or a movie or whatever, that's going to have some positive effect, I should do it whether I'm supposed to do it. It or not.

Chelsea Handler (49:28)

And are you injecting yourself into these books that you write? Like, is there a part of you that's in this book twice that is part of the main character?

Mitch Albom (49:37)

Oh, yeah. Alfie. This character is named Alfie. He's the boy. And many of the mishaps that he has when he's younger with girls are straight out of my playbook. There's a scene where he goes up to talk to a girl who has a bit of a crush on. And he. He talks with his hands and he knocks a glass of milk into her lap. And she just looks up and says, oh, God, you know, like that with that. And. And his response is, look at that. And that's exactly what had happened to me and exactly what I said. And then I just skunked off and never talked to that girl again. So, yeah, I think you have to have a little bit in know of yourself in order to know your characters well and have them ring true. There has to be a bit of you in there. But the biggest thing is that I wrote it for my wife. And the love story is between Alfie and this girl Gianna, who he meets when they're very young in Africa, and then never sees her again until he happens to run into her when they're college age. And he just kind of tumbles into love with her and feels that, like, he's so lucky to have her. And finally she loves him back. And they have this wonderful love affair for a while until something happens and he misreads a situation and he's tempted to just undo it out of anger or whatever. And of course, he finds out that the one caveat to his power is love. That he can do anything twice except love. He can't get somebody to love him twice. So. Which I think, you know, that's kind of how it should be. You know, like, if somebody truly loves you and you say, all right, you wait over here, keep loving me. I'm gonna go out here and see if I can find something better. But just in case I want to come back, pick up where we left off. That seems so unfair. And so I made the rules, like you asked me before about the rules. Well, I can make the rules. I wrote the book. So I said it doesn't work with love. And if you walk away from a true love, that person can never love you again. They'll be in the world, you know, that you revisit. They can be your friend, but they can never love you again. And of course, he makes this fateful decision, and then he has to live with the consequences. And so it was my way of sort of saying to my wife, you know, both apologizing for any things that I've done that have been less than.

Chelsea Handler (52:03)

Satisfactory, but also, yeah, I Went for.

Mitch Albom (52:08)

Great, you went for satisfactory. But okay, you know, somewhere in the middle.

Chelsea Handler (52:12)

Right. It also begs the question, which is so beautiful, is if you don't get somebody to love you twice, what will you do to be able to just continue to love them?

Mitch Albom (52:23)

That's right. And that's where our hero manages to salvage himself. I'm trying not to tell the whole story well.

Chelsea Handler (52:31)

Right. Yeah, so am I. But, you know, probably failing loudly. But I just. It's so beautiful. Your writing is so beautiful. It really is the definition of escapism. Are your books like. The reason I love reading so much is something that really takes me away. And every time your writing just does that. So I'm really, really grateful to you. I want to ask you, before we have to let you go, about what you read and what some of your favorite books are.

Mitch Albom (52:57)

Well, I read everything. And I've learned that story about the photographer, that anything can be a source of inspiration for you. And so I don't ever say, well, I just read fiction because I'm writing fiction, or I just read nonfiction because I'll read novels, I'll read biographies, I'll read instruction manuals. I mean, anything that I think is going to inspire me, I do tend to read a little differently. Like, okay, so this is Ann Tyler's dinner at the homesick restaurant. Was. He's just sitting on my desk here. So I don't know if you can see. So you see the pages are all dog eared. Okay. And under each of those dog eared pages will be a phrase that I will circle that I think is really great writing. And then what happens is I'll just pull these. That's why it's here. I'll just pull these books out. And whenever I'm going to start writing before I do, I take it and I just flip the pages and I just read these great sentences that these authors have written. And Ann Tyler wrote a lot of really good sentences in this book and they just inspire me. It's like, it's a little bit like, all right, I'm going to sit down and compose music. Let me listen to something that's really inspiring first. And then I'll sit down and I'll compose mine. You know, so I destroy my books, but I'm good with that. Like, I've had people come up with Tuesdays with Maury's that honestly, I don't know how the binding is even holding together. You know, they're dog eared, they're marked up, they've got, got Coloring all over them. Some of them have little tabs on the pages. Five people you meet in heavens like that a lot. Little liars, like. And these are people who, like, underline the books and they come up and they apologize. They say, I'm sorry I destroyed the book. I said, no, why would you apologize? Like, you. You ate the whole meal. You know, like, right. You really. You.

Chelsea Handler (54:46)

You.

Mitch Albom (54:47)

You devoured it. Look at. Look at what you did to the book. You know, someone who comes up on the book is pristine. For all I know, they. They read the jacket, you know, So I love that. And I don't consider, you know, books like holy that you can't touch them. I think they're meant to be absorbed that way. So that's basically how I read. I just read for inspirational writing.

Chelsea Handler (55:06)

And do you have any favorite books?

Mitch Albom (55:09)

Many.

Chelsea Handler (55:09)

Have you ever read Circe by Madeline Miller?

Mitch Albom (55:13)

No. You're the second person that's recommended that to me in about a week.

Chelsea Handler (55:17)

There's some similarities between your writing and her writing. She has. She packs a punch with sentences also. And it's beautiful. It's a beautiful book. But what are some of your favorites?

Mitch Albom (55:28)

Gilead by Marilynne Robinson is one of my favorite books ever. History of Love by Nicole Krause. These are books that I've read, like, a hundred times. You know, just because I so admire the writing. I was a huge Tom Wolf fan. I think the first chapter of the Right Stuff is one of the most creative ways of writing. When I was first getting into writing, coming out of music, one of the daunting things about writing to a musician is it feels very limiting. You know, when you're used to. You got a whole keyboard. I'm a piano player. And when you have a whole keyboard to work with and all the sounds, it feels like the whole world is at your fingertips that you could create. And then when you're working in the world of letters and words and sentences, not so much, you know, especially when you're not as good at it. When you begin, you know, you're getting started, it feels kind of. I'm just living within the, you know, the. The words to the left and the words on the right, and they're kind of creating a box. And then you read that chapter where there's, like, italic, you know, tat, tat, tat, tat, you know, and he writes it out and sounds. And I remember reading that, and I said, wow, you can do that with words. You know, you can create sounds, and you can create what people are Thinking, and you can come in with a voice out of left field that's just commenting on what you just read, and then you can jump back out again. And it really inspired me to say, there is no limit to, you know, what you could do with. With words. And, and I ended up kind of using that in my journalism when in my early days as a, as a sports writer, I would say, you know, I wrote a column. And I would always not be limited by the traditional form of writing. So one time I had to write a story about the Kentucky Derby and I didn't know anything about horse racing. I was going to the Kentucky Derby and so I kind of wrote a column about me interviewing a horse and a make believe horse. And the horse would talk to me about, you know, and I was asking him different questions about what it's like to be a racehorse. And I remember these are the days when people used to write you letters, you know, at the newspaper. And I went down, picked up my mail, and I. It was a letter from a reader and I opened it up and it was that column, and I opened it, I pulled it out. He literally cut it out of the paper and he wrote, a horse talks to a jackass. I said, that's pretty good, you know, and I put that up on my bulletin board and said, you know, this is what happens when you take a chance. But it still was worth it, you know, to explore the.

Chelsea Handler (58:04)

Yeah. I like the idea of not having a framework, and I like the idea of not having parameters, because that's all that we're taught in this world, is that there are limits and there are parameters, and that's why you're told to do the same thing you did. Well, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. Which is not exciting for a creative brain. Okay, well, the book is called Twice. It is a love story. It's a beautiful love story and it's a great book. Another great book from Mitch Alba. Mitch, we appreciate your time today. We'll take callers separately, you and me. And thank you so much, much for your time. For your talk. I loved it. You're very inspiring.

Mitch Albom (58:39)

Thank you. I'm really flattered that you like my work. I hope you enjoy five people you meet in heaven and I didn't ruin it for you.

Chelsea Handler (58:46)

Well, yeah, I do know the ending, but I will still read it. And I think there's some books you.

Mitch Albom (58:50)

Only know a piece of the end.

Chelsea Handler (58:51)

Okay, okay, okay, Great, great, great. I'm gonna read it on my flight to New York on Friday and then I'm Coming to Detroit. I'm doing shows in Detroit next year. I'm gonna invite you guys, you and your wife to come to see me.

Mitch Albom (59:01)

Oh, we would love that.

Chelsea Handler (59:02)

Yeah, I'd love to.

Mitch Albom (59:03)

It would be wonderful. I'd very much like to meet you in person. Thank you so much for having me on your program.

Chelsea Handler (59:08)

Okay, wonderful. Have a great day. Mitch, so much.

Mitch Albom (59:10)

Thank you too. Bye. Bye.

Chelsea Handler (59:11)

Bye. He's awesome. Awesome. True mensch. I know. I mean, first of all, true guy. Like what a model male human being. The opposite of toxic masculinity. I know. Oh, my God. I was started crying twice. Yeah, it's like really powerful. It's so glad we got to the writing too. Yeah. I'm so glad we got to his kids in Haiti and I didn't know he had they adopted. I know. It's just gorgeous. They're just stories. Beautiful. It's like he's a vessel, truly. I mean, it is like, just like hearing about his life. Is that the right word? Vessel? What, like a conduit? Conduit. Yeah. You do. You do hear that when he's like. I was focused on myself and I made this change. I did this thing to help someone else. And then all of these blessings came to him. But then he continued to pass it along. I mean, just really wonderful. Now I gotta read the Little Liar. Yeah, that's a great book. Yeah. Life's messy. We're talking spills, stains, pets and kids. But with Annabe, you never have to stress about Messes again. @washablesofas.com Discover Anabe Sofas. The only fully machine washable sofas inside and out, starting at just $699. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics. That means fewer stains and more peace of mind. Designed for real life, our sofas feature changeable fabric covers, allowing you to refresh your style anytime. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa effortlessly. Perfect for cozy apartments or spacious homes. Plus, they're earth friendly and built to last. That's why over 200,000 happy customers have made the switch. Upgrade your space today. Visit washablesofas.com now and bring home a sofa made for life. That's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Mitch Albom (61:11)

In the new podcast Hell in Heaven, two young Americans move to the Costa Rican jungle to start over.

Chelsea Handler (61:19)

But one will end up dead. The other tried for murder. Not once. People went wild.

Mitch Albom (61:27)

Not twice, stunned, but three times.

Chelsea Handler (61:32)

John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive and they're devoted to each other.

Mitch Albom (61:37)

They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill.

Chelsea Handler (61:44)

But little by little, their dream starts to crumble and our couple retreat from reality.

Mitch Albom (61:51)

They lose it. They actually lose it. They sort of went nuts.

Chelsea Handler (61:56)

Until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you.

Mitch Albom (62:06)

Get your podcast costs.

Chelsea Handler (62:13)

All I know is what I've been told. And that's a half truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Mitch Albom (62:34)

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

Chelsea Handler (62:36)

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

Mitch Albom (62:45)

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Chelsea Handler (62:52)

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, producer and I work. I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Mitch Albom (63:02)

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

Chelsea Handler (63:08)

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her from Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame.

Mitch Albom (63:26)

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

Chelsea Handler (63:35)

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts, it's Anna Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life, we're best friends. And I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Bethy. Can you. Can you believe it has been almost 20 years?

Mitch Albom (64:17)

I.

Chelsea Handler (64:18)

That's not even possible. Well, you're the only one that looks that much different. I look exactly the same. We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before. You're going to hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Urie, Becky Newton, Tony Plana and so many more icons each. All of a sudden, like, someone, like, comes running up to me and it's Salma Hayek. And she's like, you are my Ugly Betty. And I was like, what is she even talking about? Listen to Viva Betty. As part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Okay, so now we're going to take some callers without Mitch. Katherine. I thought our time was better spent with Mitch, listening to him talk about writing for some reason. And so let's take the callers ourselves. I think that's perfect. Yes. Well, our first question comes from Karen. She says, hello, Chelsea. Many of your stories resonate with me. I was adopted at birth and grew up with deep feelings of abandonment. I was also an angry teenager and turned that anger onto my parents. Poor them. My issues followed me through college. In my early 20s, my aunt connected me with a fantastic therapist, and I had a breakthrough of sorts of. However, I was still searching and ungrounded. I tried marriage to fix my issues and immediately recognized my mistake. I now call that my starter marriage. In my early 30s, I remarried, had my daughter, and found my birth parents. The discovery of these new relationships brought turmoil, but also emotional connection that had previously been just beyond my reach. There have been many twists and turns in my life, many of which have seemed faded, such as connecting with my second husband in 1998 after near misses in which we'd nearly crossed paths many times. I'm currently trying to write a book to capture my life story, which I think is worth telling. I have initiated the process countless times and can't seem to get started. I know you've written multiple books, so my question to you is, how did you start? Did you develop a framework and then start writing? Did you just. Free flow? Did you have a ghostwriter? I'd appreciate any guidance you can offer. Karen. Hi, Karen.

Mitch Albom (66:30)

Hi.

Chelsea Handler (66:31)

Hi. How are you? Thank you so much for having me on. I appreciate it. You're so welcome. I like your full blonde hair. It looks nice. And a great head of hair from another blonde. I mean, mine's obviously not real anymore, but it's very hard to have thick blonde hair. Thank you. So congrats on that feat. Thank you for your note. We just had Mitch Albom on talking about his writing, so he talked about getting up every morning. He doesn't expose himself. I don't know. Do you. Do you have a job or. I do. I'm a graduate nursing professor. Okay. What does that mean? So I'm a nurse practitioner, so I'm clinical faculty for master's prepared nurses that are going for their nurse practitioner. Oh, wow, that sounds nice. And so what, what is your schedule like? So I'm mostly online grading and I do site visits. So I have a lot of flexibility. Right. So then what he said as first thing in the morning is when your brain is the freshest. There's lots of data to back this up. So that's really what you want to do is he told me something that I. I don't do, which check any media, not check phone, not check anything. And he just goes and starts writing before anything can kind of make an impression on him. So and writes for about two and a half, three hours each morning and then leaves it there because he said he could sit there for another eight hours and it just would be useless. And I find that to be true in my own experience as well. It's first thing in the morning when my eyes are fresh and when my head is fresh and I'm well rested to get up and. And that is, I think, the most creative time for most of us, I think. Not looking at anything, not looking at the news, not looking at any social media, not even looking at your phone is a really, a great piece of advice that he gave. So, yeah, I would say to do that, and I wouldn't be too strict with your guidelines for yourself because the desire's there and the construct, you just have to envision what you're trying to put out there. Like with my most recent book, I wanted. My goal was to impart the wisdom that I had gleaned and to inject women with a little bit more confidence. Like, that was my M.O. so everything that came was born out of that idea. And so, like, you know, I opened my last book with a chapter about. It's called Little Girl. It's like, who do I want it? Who I wanted to be when I was a little girl? How did I envision myself becoming? And what kind of woman did I see myself becoming? And then the book takes you through all of the ways in which I attempted and got derailed or wasn't really conscious about it and was derailed and then realized, wait a second, where's that woman? You know, so that. That was like my through line. I don't know that. I think sometimes you have a structure in your head and sometimes you have a structure on paper. It really depends what kind of brain you have. You're talking about writing your life story, basically. Right, right, right. Yeah. And I think it's important and valuable to think about what it is you're giving to the readers that are going to be reading this. So I get a little confused about that. So I think I want to tell my story and then I think about do I need to make it a.

Mitch Albom (69:47)

Larger picture of maybe, you know, my.

Chelsea Handler (69:51)

Extended family and then intertwine my thread throughout it and I get caught in the weeds or I think too large, it's really hard to figure out how to start and what to tell. And then I just kind of, you know, I spin around and around. One tool that might be helpful is to get yourself a pack of like three by five note cards and go through, write on each one sort of like a story or a scene that you want to write about. And you know, you might hang them up on a wall, you might just have them in a stack. But if you're having a writing day, you know, whether that's, you know, you have a couple hours in the morning or even just, you know, 40 minutes in the morning, go through, pick one that's speaking to you that day and write about that. Like it, you don't necessarily have to write it chronologically. You can always go back and then, you know, put stuff chronologically and weave it in so you can just go to whatever, like you're in the mood for whatever is speaking to you that day. That's a great idea. Because when I'm thinking of a timeline and starting at childhood, I can't think of any great to grab onto and initiate that story. And I've always been kind of thinking about it in a chronological manner. And so I get stuck on that and then I'm like, oh, well, so that's a great idea. Yeah. And also those index cards that you get, there's big momentous moments or the moments that you know, you do want to write about. Right. You put those all down, the things that stand out the most. So like your early childhood, you're saying the, there's, there's some, you know, you don't have a very clear idea of where to begin. I think if you put down your biggest memories and your loudest moments on blue cards, that will kind of help you remember where. Like, it will kind of help trigger you where to begin. Because if you start writing that stuff, usually writing begets more writings and, and memory seeking begets more memories. So I think that like, just by the practice of writing down the things that you do recall and the big instances that you do wanna convey in your book. Book, you're going to start to remember other things. Oh, that's really great that I hadn't even tried that. I hadn't even thought about that. So that's really, that's helpful. Thank you. Yeah. And even if you're writing say a thousand words a day, at the end of three months you've got 90,000 words, you know, so it like take it in small bites if you need to. Yeah. And I also really just like, I'm not a very structured person. I like to just do my own thing. I don't follow rules well. So for me it's really, when I sit down and I start writing, it creates a need to wanna write more. And another great piece of advice Mitch Albom just gave was he always leaves his writing on a positive note or a positive paragraph. Like if he's in the middle of a good paragraph, he'll stop if it's been two and a half or three hours. Because that way the next morning when he wakes up, there's a level of excitement to return to the page. Yeah, that's really, really helpful too. Yeah. These things, I'm so structured and organized that everything you're saying to me really isn't anything I've thought about and I think probably will help get the ball rolling actually. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't be super careful, don't be so regimented about it and allow yourself to be a free thinker with regard to this book. Like do things you haven't done before. Since you've never written a book before, this is the perfect opportunity to try, try to loosen your whole structure up. Yeah, sure. Okay, good stuff. Thank you so much. Great. Love it. Thanks for calling in time for a sofa upgrade. Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices. With sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces. Anime is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality. For price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now@washablesofas.com Authors are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

Mitch Albom (74:31)

In the new podcast Hell in Heaven, two young Americans move to the Costa Rica Rican jungle to start over.

Chelsea Handler (74:38)

But one will end up dead, the other tried for murder not once people.

Mitch Albom (74:45)

Went wild, not twice, stunned, but three times.

Chelsea Handler (74:51)

John and Anne Bender are rich and attractive and they're devoted to each other.

Mitch Albom (74:57)

They create a nature reserve and build a spectacular circular home high on the top of a hill.

Chelsea Handler (75:04)

But little by little, their dream starts to crumble and our couple retreat from reality.

Mitch Albom (75:11)

They lose it. They actually lose it.

Chelsea Handler (75:13)

They sort of went nuts until one night, everything spins out of control. Listen to Hell in Heaven on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All I know is what I've been told and that's a half truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Mitch Albom (75:54)

I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her.

Chelsea Handler (75:56)

We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv.

Mitch Albom (76:05)

Through sheer persistence and nerve, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran.

Chelsea Handler (76:12)

My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find.

Mitch Albom (76:22)

I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said.

Chelsea Handler (76:27)

They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her from Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. Blame America.

Mitch Albom (76:46)

Y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns.

Chelsea Handler (76:55)

Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.

Mitch Albom (77:17)

Gente.

Chelsea Handler (77:18)

It's Anna Ortiz and I'm Mark and Delicato. You might know us as Hilda and Justin from Ugly Betty. We played mother and son on the show, but in real life we're best friends and I'm all grown up now. Welcome to our new podcast, Viva Betty Woohoo can you believe it has been almost 20 years? I. That's not even. Well, you're the only one that looks that much different. I look exactly the same. We're rewatching the series from start to finish and getting into all the fashions, the drama, and the behind the scenes moments that you've never heard before. You're going to hear from guests like America Ferreira, Vanessa Williams, Michael Urie, Becky Newton, Tony Plana, and so many more icons. Each and every one, all of a sudden, like, someone, like, comes running up to me and it's Salma Hayek. And she's like, you are my Ugly Betty. And I was like, what is she even talking about? Listen to Viva Betty as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This caller is Jean. She says, Dear Chelsea, I listen to your podcast religiously and find your advice to be so refreshingly honest and straightforward. Word I'm writing to As a fellow author, I've published many books in my life, but now I'm writing a memoir about being in a family of 10. My early childhood trauma was so bad it manifested in medical issues, so I had to cut ties with my family. I'm writing this book to challenge myself as a writer, process my experiences, and share my stories with others who can relate. I know I'll need to change the names of family members, but anyone who knows me will know who I'm writing about. Even though my stories aren't pleasant, they are all true. How do I deal with the fallout and maintain my conviction and composure should one of them reach out to me, especially if it's in anger. Thank you in advance for your help. You're one of the smartest, sweetest, strongest women I know. Jean. Hi, Jean. Hi. Hi. I'm so excited to meet you. Oh, thank you for your kind words. And I'm so sorry that you had such a traumatizing childhood. Thank you. Are you writing it as nonfiction or are you writing it, like, as fiction? No, I'm writing it as nonfiction. Memoir. Yeah, I honestly, it's not really your problem what anybody thinks about what you're gonna write about. You're entitled to write your story. Everyone is entitled to tell their story and write their story. And while you do have to change the names and you have to change the scenery, yes, you're right. People are gonna know what you're talking about. But I don't think it does you any good to really consider that aspect of things, especially at this stage, it's almost like, you know, your efforts should just be going towards your honoring your story. Because by telling your story, you are helping so many people. And you just have to keep that in the back of your mind at all times that this is not just for you. This is for the world. Right. And it's for women. I like to always think, like, when I'm making a decision, you know, that I'm doing it on behalf of women. Not every little decision, but big decisions. I think, who am I doing this for? It's not. Can't just be for me, but it's for women. Absolutely. And that's the only reason I would share it. Chelsea, I feel very strongly about gleaning from my life experiences in my work as a writer. I'm almost 60 years old. Like, this is how I want to spend the rest of my life. Working days is sharing my stories with people who can relate. But, you know, I. I am concerned about any potential negative interference from siblings when it does come out. I have had siblings try to sabotage some of my book events and whatnot, and that those books had nothing to do with them. So that kind of just hangs over my head a little bit. And I. I'm just wondering what. What should I do? Like, how. How do I respond if, you know, and when that happens, I don't think there is a response for that. Any response is them winning, you know, like, them trying to, like, sabotage you and you reacting to it. Is them affecting you. And I think you have to just kind of. It sounds like a pretty toxic situation that you've come from. And I honestly think you just have to be your own best protector and think of that little girl that you were. That wasn't protected, that you're writing about, and this is your job to protect her in this moment. Oh, thank you so much. That means a lot. And yeah, I mean, I. I am trying to listen to other memoirists who have gone through something similar and get their advice and what to do and whatnot. And so I'm leaning on people like yourself, too. You've written your own memoirs and your own experiences. And yes, I'm leaning on all of you as inspiration for not just how to write this, but how to deal with any intrusions, you know, any negativity when this book hopefully is out and will be discussed. Yeah. And also, you know, you can't fight with someone who's not fighting back. So say the worst case scenario, someone walks into one of your book events, you're having a book Talk at a bookstore, independent bookseller, and someone comes in and is like, this is a lie. This is a lie. Your response is, nothing is just to sit there and wait for security to escort them out. There's no argument to be had. Do you know what I mean? Like, I. That's a louder argument than an argument. Yeah. To not get into it. And I think it's not helpful to be putting your energy towards that right now anyway. Channel that energy and use that for the book. Book, yeah. Under the assumption that there's not going to be any problem and there's going to be no intrusions and that nobody's going to try to sabotage you. I hope not. Because the way I look at it is like me walking into their office where they work and telling them, you know, that's not how to design a building or whatever they do for a living, you know? Absolutely. That's how I feel about it. But how I feel is usually at odds with the people I grew up with, unfortunately. So I just. I hope I can maintain my composure. You can. You can, because by the time the book is published, you're gonna get into a preparation phase. You know, you're gonna prepare yourself for what happens in the eventuality that something negative like that does happen. It most likely won't, but if it does, then, yeah, you're gonna meditate on it and you're gonna prepare for that and how you're gonna handle it. And you're gonna handle it with grace and confidence, knowing that this is your story and nobody owns your story the way that you do. Thank you. I mean, from bottom of my heart, I. I don't want to hurt anybody. You know, it's not my intention. I understand. So I. I wrestle with that a lot. You know, these are not people I want to hurt. Yeah, well, I mean, that's worth saying, you know, in the book also, you know. Yeah. It's a hard line. I mean, that's worth considering putting in, you know, like the prologue or the introduction to the book. You know, this is my story. And. And this. I did not set out to hurt anyone else with telling my story. I'm setting out to help people who may have experienced something similar. That's perfect. Thank you. That's fabulous. Yeah. Great. All right, well, I wish you lots of luck. Yeah. And lots of courage. Thank you. And lots of success. Thank you so much, Tilsie. I just love what you do. Keep doing it. I love you so much. Thank you. Oh, thanks so much. Bye. Bye. Okay. That was your episode of Dear Chelsea for the week everybody. We have minisodes that we are airing now. When do our minisodes come out? Every other Friday. Every other Friday we have a minisode. If you need a little jolt, an extra jolt of us. We're here, we're here. And yeah, we'll see you next week or you'll hear us or what the fuck ever. Goodbye. The word of the week is aggrandize verb to increase the power, step status or wealth of something or someone. Used in a sentence to self aggrandize may be beneficial if you use it to demand a raise at work. Aggrandize. I just announced all my tour dates. They just went on sale this week. It's called the High and Mighty Tour. I will be starting in February of next year so I will be touring from February through June. I haven't added second shows yet, but we probably will be to some of these. So go get your tickets now. If you want good seats and you want to come see me perform, I will be on the High and Mighty Tour. Do you want advice from Chelsea? Write in to dearchelsea podcastmail.com Find full video episodes of Dear Chelsea on YouTube by searching ear Chelsea Pod Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert Executive producer Kathryn Lawson. And be sure to check out our merch@chelsea handler.com.

Mitch Albom (86:26)

Hey, Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now I don't know if you've heard, but Mint's Premium Wireless is $15 a month. But I'd like to offer one other perk. We have no stores.

Chelsea Handler (86:38)

That means no small talk.

Mitch Albom (86:41)

Crazy weather we're having.

Chelsea Handler (86:42)

No it's not. That's just weather.

Mitch Albom (86:43)

It is an introvert dream.

Chelsea Handler (86:46)

Give it a try@minmobile.com Switch upfront payment of 45 for 3 month plan 15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first 3 months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra.

Mitch Albom (86:55)

Cmnobile.com Johnny Knoxville here. Check out Crimeless Hillbilly Heist, my new true crime podcast from Smartless Media, Campside Media and big money players. It's the true story of the almost perfect crime and the nimrods who almost pulled it off. It was kind of like the perfect storm in a sewer. That was dumb. Do not follow my example. Listen to Crimeless Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Chelsea Handler (87:29)

The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local household housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story.

Mitch Albom (87:42)

America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns.

Chelsea Handler (87:54)

Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. I'm Eva Longoria. And I'm Maite Gomez Rejuan. And this week on our podcast Hungry for History, we talk oysters. Plus, the Miami Chief stops by.

Mitch Albom (88:17)

If you are not an oyster lover, don't even talk to me.

Chelsea Handler (88:20)

Ancient Athenians used to scratch names onto oyster shells to vote politicians into exile. So our word ostracize is related to the word oyster. No way. Bring back the ostrichon. Listen to Hungry for history on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.