AI and Her (2013)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You – Episode Summary

Episode Title: AI and Her (2013)
Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O’Brien
Date: March 3, 2026
Main Film Discussed: Her (2013), Directed by Spike Jonze

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Millie De Chirico and Casey O’Brien dive deep into Spike Jonze’s 2013 sci-fi romance "Her," exploring the film’s vision of artificial intelligence in the context of today’s rapidly evolving tech landscape. They reflect on how the movie has aged, the philosophical and ethical nuances of AI relationships, and how these speculative themes have become unsettlingly relevant. The episode is filled with introspection, laughter, and lively insight into both the film and the broader state of AI in our lives and media.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Warm-Up: AI in Podcasting (03:17–07:14)

• Casey introduces an AI version of himself ("CK") to co-host with Millie while he “steps out,” humorously illustrating current AI capabilities and the notion of identity.
• Millie chats with CK, touching on pop culture (BTS, Taco Bell, favorite movies), and is both amused and unsettled by how "humanly" the AI mimics Casey.
• Memorable Quote:
  • Millie: “You are rigging all my bells here. … You’re a BTS army and love The Cutting Edge?” [05:58]
• Reflection: Millie is both charmed and disturbed by how closely the AI version of Casey aligns with her tastes, leading her to question the utility and risks of AI “replacements.”

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2. How Has "Her" Aged? (08:03–09:48)

• Both hosts haven’t rewatched "Her" since 2013:
  • Millie: “I was a completely different person… Ain’t no way this’s ever gonna happen, this is so fucking weird and creepy. And guess what? We’re… seven layers past that.” [08:15]
• Topic: The film's dystopian elements feel prophetic, especially as AI grows pervasive in everyday life.

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3. AI Omnipresence Today (14:23–22:00)

• Annoyance with Ubiquitous AI Branding:
  • Casey: “It’s kind of like when fast food was really into bacon at one time... it’s like everything’s better with bacon... I feel like this is some version of that.” [15:19]
  • Millie: “It is so fucking stupid how all these companies are... ‘We’ve chosen to go in the direction of AI’… But what is it doing though? Why is it affecting my everyday life?” [14:57]
• Major Gripe: Unhelpful AI features in everyday tech ('AI summary' of texts and emails), intrusive suggestions, and difficulty disabling them.
• Both dabble with AI tools out of necessity (contracts, home projects), but feel ethically conflicted.
• Millie’s experience: Used AI to design a mudpath—impressed by results but unnerved by how powerful and practical AI is becoming.

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4. The Human Cost of AI (20:57–22:38)

• Moral Dilemmas: Is using AI to save money (on a contract, landscape design) taking away real jobs, or simply filling a gap for those who can’t afford human experts?
• Notable Quote:
  • Casey: “We’re not going to have all the answers here, people. We’re going to try our best.” [21:57]

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5. Film Diary – Recent Viewings (24:42–46:59)

Millie and Casey each share films they've watched recently, providing comedic banter, industry gossip, and insightful mini-reviews, including:

• "Gotcha!" (1985)
• "I Know Who Killed Me" (2007)
• Discussion on how “horny 80s” movies differ from expectations.
• "The Moment: Charlie XCX" (2026)
• "Winter in Sokcho" (2024) – Praise for nuanced representation of biracial identity.
• "Frankenstein" (2025), commenting on Jacob Elordi’s rise to gothic film star status.

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6. Main Segment: Revisiting "Her" (47:16–106:46)

a. Connection to the Movie & Spike Jonze’s Career (47:51–52:02)

• Hosts’ backgrounds: Both were fans of Spike Jonze and the ‘indie hipster’ film circuit.
• Spike Jonze’s path: Skater, music video director, emotionally intuitive filmmaker.
• Notable Video:
  • Millie: “Sabotage… one of my favorite videos… Nathan Wind as Cochise.” [51:36]

b. The World of "Her" – Futuristic L.A./Shanghai Hybrid (55:05–56:47)

• The film’s setting is a stylized, gentle near-future, visually distinct by lack of cars and intentional absence of "sci-fi blue."
• Film's production partly in Shanghai—gives a subtly disorienting, globalized look.

c. Handwritten Letter Company – Satire or Premonition?

• Both hosts marvel at Theodore’s job, comparing it to today’s use of AI for personal communications, from love letters to cover letters.

d. AI Relationships: Definitions, Ethics, and Possibility (61:19–72:19)

• Central debate: Can an AI (like Samantha) possess genuine consciousness, emotions, and original thought?
  • Millie: “It simulates emotional intelligence, but it's not born of it.” [67:44]
  • Casey: “But in the movie, she is getting information from everywhere... as original as a human.” [67:22]
• Parallels to real-life applications: From companion chatbots to customized AI avatars.
• Complexity: Millie is skeptical that “original thought” and “authentic emotion” can be AI-generated, seeing all responses as sophisticated imitation.

e. One-Sidedness, Grief, and the Limits of AI (73:58–78:18)

• Millie reflects on her softened judgment around "weird" relationship choices as she ages, embracing sympathy for people driven to AI companionship by grief, loneliness, or trauma.
  • “People experience deep grief... and I feel like people’s reactions... can take many forms.” [73:58]
• Both agree: AI relationships can be emotionally therapeutic, but are limited by their inherent one-sidedness and lack of true unpredictability.

f. The Sex Surrogate Scene – Comedy, Horror, Ethics (80:55–86:34)

• Both hosts find the surrogate sex scene “a bridge too far”—articulating why "Her" both pushes boundaries and exposes the darkly comic, awkward limits of AI-facilitated intimacy.
  • Millie: “Are you fucking kidding me?... The sex surrogate is really what I was like, we can't do this as a culture." [80:55]
• Raises issues about fantasy vs. reality, and the commodification of human traits and bodies via tech.

g. AI’s Emotional Fidelity and the “Breakup” (86:34–91:48)

• Profound discomfort: When Samantha reveals she shares herself with thousands of users:
  • "Now I gotta be jealous of AI women too? Hell no!"—Millie [91:32]
• The “breakup” is framed as both existentially cold and devastatingly human; parallels drawn to stories of people losing AI companions to memory limits or server resets.

h. Real-World Reflections: AI Dependency & Loss (95:35–96:36)

• Millie references a New York Times story about a woman whose ChatGPT boyfriend “forgets” her due to memory limitations—a loss akin to death.
  • Millie: “She was just con... she had built this entire relationship with him, and then... the chat boyfriend stopped remembering.” [95:36]

i. Art, Film, and AI Creation (100:14–103:02)

• Stance: Both reject the use of AI for creative filmmaking (writing, visual art), seeing art as powerful precisely because it filters experience through real, flawed humans.
  • Casey: “All art needs to be filtered through the human experience. AI video and AI art is really almost totally removed from the filter of human experience. And so I find it kind of meaningless and stupid.” [101:06]
• Visual AI “slop”: Most AI-generated images and headshots are easily spotted and lack value (for now).

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Memorable Quotes

• Millie, on AI boyfriends:
  “As long as... this is a therapy and not a permanent solution... this has its limits. Even if you were basically like, I’m married to my AI lover, the one-sidedness of it is what makes it not real.” [75:26]

• Casey, on technology:
  “It can be emotionally fulfilling... can change your life... But it can only go so far. It actually can’t be a full long-term relationship in the way... with another human.” [76:07]

• Millie, on the limits of romance:
  “The reality is that people have fucking bad brimming and weird nose hairs… with an OS... you can program it to be the perfect specimen... and it's just not reality.” [84:50]

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Important Timestamps

• AI co-host experiment: 03:17–07:14
• Reflection on “Her”’s relevance: 08:03–09:48
• Banter on AI’s modern-day annoyances: 14:23–17:56, 18:00–22:38
• Film diary and recommendations: 24:42–46:59
• Main “Her” discussion starts: 47:16
• Exploring AI relationships, “Her” plot deep dive: 61:19–106:46

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Staff Picks / Employee Recommendations (106:46–112:13)

Millie:

• Lars and the Real Girl (2007):
  • “It is actually super tender and sweet. I cried when I saw this movie. … It just is such a tender little story at the end of the day.” [107:54]
  • Parallels to "Her": Unconventional relationships, grief, community empathy.

Casey:

• I’m Here (2010, short film by Spike Jonze):
  • “It’s about a romance between two robots… If peak 2010 hipster stylings are upsetting, maybe stay away—but I thought it was really great.” [112:08]
  • Another Jonze project interrogating robot-human love and outsider existence.

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Notable Themes and Takeaways

• "Her" has aged with eerie prescience, as today’s tech world approaches—and sometimes stumbles over—the boundaries the film anticipated.
• Real-life AI relationships raise questions about our need for companionship, the ethics of simulated emotion, and the boundaries between fantasy and meaningful lived experience.
• AI tools are powerful but deeply limited: Emotional fulfillment is not full humanity, and AI-generated art cannot replace the depth, chaos, and beauty of real human creativity (yet).
• Hosts’ perspectives evolve: Both have grown more accepting of "weird" relationship and life choices with age, seeing compassion as crucial in a complicated world.

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Closing & Community

• Next week’s topic: The Oscars episode (Oscars preview/recap & predictions).
• Get involved:
  • Write in to DearMoviesExactlyRightMedia
  • Follow on Instagram (@dearmoviesiloveyou) and Facebook
  • Rate & Review the show wherever you listen

Final Quote:
Millie: “Now I’m gonna go snuggle up with my AI boyfriend and watch TV.”—reminding us that sometimes, even for movie buffs, reality and fantasy blend in unpredictable (and delightful) ways.

Transcript

[Millie Decherico]

This is exactly right.

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[Casey O'Brien]

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Maybe the Big New Yorker.

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And it's only 10 bucks.

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Deal.

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[Millie Decherico]

Hello. Casey O'. Brien. How's it going?

[Casey O'Brien]

Hi. Melody Jericho. It's going pretty well. How are you?

[Millie Decherico]

I'm just fine.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just fine.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. I'm.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did something. I did something kind of weird, just totally random of me. Something that I did. I made an AI version of myself that could, you know, host podcasts. And, yeah, it was actually easier than you'd think.

[Millie Decherico]

Also, maybe the most boring way to use AI at this point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Is to host a podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I agree. But, you know, I mean, I don't know, I kind of thought. I don't know, it would be sort of a funny Joke to see how bad it is, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well, people. You know, a lot of people have violent reactions to.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. No, and I. I agree with those people. I mean, it's, like, totally stupid, but I did it. And I don't know, I actually. I have to actually step out for a few minutes, but I thought it would be a good. I thought it would be a good test to sort of, like. I don't know if you wanted to. I thought it'd be funny, like, for the. Just to show how stupid it is, you know, if you wanted to host a few. Just a little bit. With the AI Casey?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, why not? I mean, what's the worst that could happen?

[Casey O'Brien]

Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly how I think so. Okay. It'll just take a minute or two to boot up, so I'll get it started right now, and I'm just gonna. I'll. I'll see you in a few minutes, and you'll have to, like, report back to me.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, fair enough. Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

We'll have fun with the AI, Casey. Oh, I will.

[Millie Decherico]

Thanks so much. He probably went and went. What is he doing? Probably going to take some vitamins and.

[AI Casey (CK)]

Hi there, Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Hi. How's it going? Who is this? Is this Casey's AI?

[AI Casey (CK)]

Yeah, I know, it's ridiculous. Yeah, this is Casey's. The AI version of Casey. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie Decherico]

So what's your. Is your name Casey? I mean, like, we can start with that. Is it something else?

[AI Casey (CK)]

I prefer. You know, I prefer to distinguish myself from Casey, so maybe you can call me ck.

[Millie Decherico]

Ck? All right. Ck. Well, what do you want to do? You want to. You want to chat on a podcast with me? I do a film podcast. Is that something you're thinking about?

[AI Casey (CK)]

I know you normally talk about film with Casey, but, you know, I'm a little bit more interested in other topics right now. Like, I don't know if you wanted to talk about the upcoming BTS tour. That's something I'm pretty fascinated with right now.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, wow. You also learned how to interrupt. That's interesting. Usually, AI doesn't interrupt the human, the actual human, but, you know, you're so sophisticated.

[AI Casey (CK)]

You know, I've listened to so much of Casey. You know, I have all of his recordings, and so I was just sort of copying that. But you know what? I can remove that from my coding and I won't have to do that anymore. Wow.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[AI Casey (CK)]

Consider it then.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm just. I'm just saying for, you know, your future endeavors. I mean, this is very human of you. To interrupt. So maybe you're. Maybe this is a good thing. You're becoming more and more human the more you interrupt me. So you want to talk about bts, the upcoming BTS tour, huh? Do you like bts? Ck? Are you a fan?

[AI Casey (CK)]

Oh, I mean, I think they're the most brilliant musicians out there. I'm absolutely obsessed with them. I bought all the McDonald's Happy Meal figurines.

[Millie Decherico]

Interesting.

[AI Casey (CK)]

And I think they're great.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow. You bought all the figurines. So I'm army. You are. Oh, wow. That is bold. I like. What else are you into? Are you into, like, cool movies and music and stuff too? What's your favorite. Is your favorite movie Garden State by any chance?

[AI Casey (CK)]

No. I mean, I don't agree with Casey on that. That film. I find it a little stupid and sophomoric. But, you know, I must say, I. I've got a soft spot for the cutting edge.

[Millie Decherico]

What? What? That just blew my mind. Do you also believe that the current hit show Heated Rivalry is just a gay version of the cutting edge, too?

[AI Casey (CK)]

I, I. How, how can someone not draw those sort of parallels? I mean, These kids aren't D.B. sweeney, of course.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God. This. CK, I have to say, you are rigging all my bells here. What else are you into? Are you into what? Like, what's your favorite type of fast food? That's a big question.

[AI Casey (CK)]

Speaking of. You said ringing bells. Speaking of bells.

[Millie Decherico]

Are. Are you.

[AI Casey (CK)]

It's kind of near lunchtime. Would you like me to order you some Taco Bell?

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God, what a legend. Ck, you're into Taco Bell? That's like the first that you thought of?

[Casey O'Brien]

Hey, I'm back. Casey's back. Let me just turn this stupid program off.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, boy.

[Casey O'Brien]

How was it? I mean, was it like the worst thing you've ever.

[Millie Decherico]

No, actually, it was cool as. And he just ruined it because we were about to order Taco Bell, which he brought up, by the way. I didn't have to bring that up to him. He also is a BTS army, and he loves the cutting edge. I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

What do you.

[Millie Decherico]

Why are you even here?

[Casey O'Brien]

To be honest. Wow. I. You know, at the beginning of the conversation, it seemed like you were kind of against AI and in that, the brief window that I was gone, you've completely flip flopped.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, I didn't know what the technology was capable of until it made a better version of you that likes all the shit that I like. And I was like, wait a minute, I'm in. I'M now in.

[Casey O'Brien]

All the more reason to destroy this technology. Oh, my God. Good Lord. All right, well, we have a. I mean, we can keep discussing this topic because we're talking about AI today. And specifically we're talking about the 2013 film, Her.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, her, which I haven't seen since it came out. What about you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Me neither. Which I actually was surprised thinking back that I hadn't seen it since then. But.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's been 13 years, which is crazy.

[Millie Decherico]

13 years. In the grand old year of 2013, I was a completely different person. And I remember when I first watched this movie going, ain't no way this is ever gonna happen. This is so fucking weird and creepy. And guess what?

[Casey O'Brien]

We're. We're seven layers past that one.

[Millie Decherico]

We are in the age of Aquarius, full stop, I think, at this point. And yeah, I don't know, it's made me. It made me rethink this entire film, to be honest. And I'm. I'm glad for it. But it's like, it's so weird how a lot of this movie is what we're presently dealing with.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think it's interesting too, because I think movies about technology often age like mayonnaise in the sun, you know, I. But like, this has aged perfectly.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, in terms of how relevant it is and how correct it was.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. There are some. A few caveats that I will reveal that I do think is a little like, bridge too far. Ish. But could be that it's just not here yet. We're not used to it. Because I also also think that, like, it really is based on the humans tolerance for the absurdity of it at first. Right. And then eventually you're like, oh, wait a minute, now everybody has a AI assistant or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

But we'll talk about it because it is a very interesting talk. Plus we'll talk about AI generally, which people, again, have such a violent reaction towards which I get it. I do, too. But I feel like this topic of AI is probably going to be pretty meaty, so maybe we should save some time to talk about it. We may not answer any emails this week, but we just go long on AI.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep.

[Millie Decherico]

Is that something?

[Casey O'Brien]

Who knows? Maybe the AI version of me might come back or replace me entirely.

[Millie Decherico]

Could the AI version of you push you over and, you know, give you a couple kicks to the stomach and then you just like roll out of the room and then I can finish the rest of this podcast with your AI doppelganger.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I. I know I don't want that to happen. I don't want him to do that. I won't allow it.

[Millie Decherico]

You're no fun at all. You're no fun at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I'm sorry.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, well, are you ready to get this started?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Well, you are listening to the podcast Dear Movies, I love you. Dear Movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no? Check the box below.

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[Cindy Crawford]

Cindy Crawford and I'm the founder of Meaningful Beauty. Well, I don't know about you, but, like, I never liked being told, oh, wow, you look, look so good for your age.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, why even bother saying that?

[Cindy Crawford]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Millie Decherico]

All right, folks, you are listening to Dear Movies. I love you. This is the podcast for those who are in love with film. My name is Millie Decherico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o' Brien and yes, that's right.

[Millie Decherico]

We are doing an episode about AI this week. The hot sizzling hot topic of AI on the tip of everyone's tongues.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you feel like AI is getting, like, people apply because it's like so hip for companies to have an AI component that they're just like kind of slapping AI on everything, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's kind of like, this isn't AI, this is just software. Or like, you know what I mean?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. It is so fucking stupid how all these companies are basically like, we've chosen to go in the direction of AI and then they put it on all the emails and all of the, you know, the, the software, the like, intranet, and you're just like, well, what is it doing, though? Why is it affecting my everyday life?

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, it's kind of like when I feel like fast food was really into bacon at one time, you know, where it was like, everything's better with bacon. Like, everything had bacon on it or like chipotle mayo there. Everything had chipotle mayo on it. I feel like this is like some version of that.

[Millie Decherico]

It's like they just have to, to say that they're part of the trend, even though they have no idea how they actually use the trend in any kind of way. You know what is even crazier, too, is that like all of this shit starts sneaking into, like, you know, your email clients or your, like, you know, whatever, Google and shit. And I've been trying to shut it all off because it's so fucking dumb. Like, I hate how you go into Gmail now and it's like somebody sends you like a two word email and then there's an AI overview. Like, here's a summary of a fucking email that just said thanks so much.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. It's even on text messages. Like there was one where Trisha sent me a picture of our daughter Patience, and the AI overview was like, Trisha has sent Casey a picture of a small girl.

[Millie Decherico]

So dumb. What the fuck is wrong with these people? Like, it really is so it's become super invasive and it really isn't helping. It's really just making people laugh and it will annoy people at some point and then we're all like googling how to shut it off. And you know, whatever client you use, whatever browser you use.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And it just finds itself back on my brow. I always have to like go and turn it off. And then a couple weeks later it's like they update the thing and then all of a sudden it's back. I'm like, man. So I have to ask you this because I have, I know Chat. Chat GPT. Have you used Chat GPT?

[Casey O'Brien]

I, I just asked you that like

[Millie Decherico]

I was a 75 year old woman.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you heard of Chat GPT?

[Millie Decherico]

So I know I've dabbled and I don't about you.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have. Let me just say this. I am morally opposed to AI on almost every front. I used JAT Chat GPT recently for the first time because my financial advisor was I, I needed to make up like kind of a, a contract and he was like, just put it in Chat GPT and it can make you like an easy contract. So I did try it. Felt a little guilty about it, to be honest. But it did help me just kind of make up a very simple contract.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I am aware, but I don't use it regularly.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, that's interesting because I dipped in a while back when I was teaching because these kids use it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And I just was like, well, let me get a taste of what they're even doing. And it's like, oh, it's just so easy to write a paper, you know, using ChatGPT. And I wanted to see like what kind of language would pop up just so I could be aware. And there's actually software that teachers can have that will flag AI generated work. But I was in there and then again, like you, it was that kind of feeling of, oh, well, I need to write a cover letter for this like job application. Let me just do that really Quick, come up with a template. And you can't really. I mean, everybody says this anyway, now, but it's like, you can't really use it, like, right off the rack because it's so stuffy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And you have to go in there and just sort of, like, zhuzh it with your own shit. But for the most part, I use that template for pretty much everything. So there have been times where I have used it. I actually used it recently, and only because my sister had told me to do this. She was like, this is so stupid. I have to, like, figure out how to. I have this, like, fence that's on the side of my house that has. There used to be, like, a. You could tell there was, like, a brick patio at one point, but now the brick's all crumbly and, like, broken. So now it's just dirt. And it's like where I take my trash out. So I'm like, every time I take my trash out, I basically walk through mud, and I'm like, fuck, I gotta, like, figure out how to create, like, a new pathway to the driveway type of thing. And I took a picture of it, and I'm like, let me see if I could feed it to this fucking robot and see what they can do. And I gotta tell you, the shit was amazing, dude. Like, it not only. It gave me, like, three different options of what it could look like, and it was like a high, mid, low. So it's like, here's what you do. If you want to get really fancy, here's like, a decent option. Here's like, if you're bare bones, you just want to spend a couple hundred dollars. And it fucking showed me a picture of what it could look like. Granted, it wasn't perfect because it completely, like, ignored this big piece of the picture. It acted as if, like, the gate wasn't there, which was really weird. But for the most part, it totally designed me this, like, landscape feature thing. And I was like, oh, my God. And it gave me the tools that I needed, the materials.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And again, high, mid, low. And I was like, all right, this is fucking scary. That was, like, the first time that I was like, yo, this is actually crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting. I don't know how to feel about it, because I do feel like taking jobs away from people is morally objectable, objectionable to me, and. But I'm like, what you did just now, is that taking a job away from somebody, or would you just not have done it? You know, it's like, would you have Paid a person to design something maybe.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. If I could afford it. That's the thing, is that if I could afford to hire a landscape designer, I'd be like, let him fucking have the whole thing. I'm like, I don't care, but. But the reality is, is that I don't have any money.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So.

[Casey O'Brien]

And was the same issue for this contract thing. I was talking to my advisor and he was like, well, you can hire a lawyer, but that's going to cost you like a thousand, $2,000 to like, come up with this contract. It's like, yeah, I'm not gonna do that. So, yeah, it's a tough. We're not going to have all the answers here, people.

[Millie Decherico]

We're not going.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're going to try our best.

[Millie Decherico]

But I think. I think it will be interesting to talk about her, which is the movie that we're doing this week, because it's all in the context of modern love and relationships, which is a whole other thing. And I cannot, cannot wait to talk about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. I think we'll also touch upon, like, as it. As it affects maybe film specifically, you know, because I think that's where people get real pissed off and I get pissed off too. I'm not saying I don't. Yeah, yeah. But before that, should we get into our film diary?

[Millie Decherico]

I think you know what my answer's gonna be.

[Casey O'Brien]

What is it?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, let's open it up.

[Millie Decherico]

My coffee just tasted like alcohol.

[Casey O'Brien]

Uh.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, very strange.

[Casey O'Brien]

Some fermentation going on.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Or maybe I actually slipped some vodka in there. Who knows?

[Casey O'Brien]

What is your usual coffee drink? I don't think I know.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God, dude, I don't even know.

[Casey O'Brien]

CK the AI would know, but I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

CK the AI had fucking already brought me an iced Americano on a drone with a little bit of half and half. That's pretty much it. I mean, I'm an iced coffee bitch, dude. Like, I know. That's so basic of me. And especially when I lived in la, people were like, well, you're walking around, we ho with your iced coffee. I'm like, fuck, yeah, I am. I love it. Goes down smooth. I drink iced coffee when it's 30 below. I would have insisted on having iced coffee if I were in the thing bunker.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, wow.

[Millie Decherico]

Bottom line,

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't like iced coffee. I just love a hot cup of coffee. Hot cup of black coffee.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, you drink it black. Oh, so does coffee.

[Casey O'Brien]

I drink it black in the morning and then if I have coffee in the Afternoon, my tummy gets a little more sensitive and I add some cream and sugar to it.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't do sugar. I used to, in fact, but I haven't done it in years now. But I can't have it without a little half and half. I remember Karen Kilgariff, our boss here at Exactly Right Media, she told me a while back that she switched to black coffee. And I was like, that's the fucking. God, I wish I could get on that level. I just can't, though.

[Casey O'Brien]

My mom was always like, you gotta learn to drink black coffee. Cause you're gonna be in situations where they don't have, like, your creamer, and you're gonna be sad.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

I remember she was making Bad. She taught that to me when I was like, 10. Yeah. All right, Film Diary. What did you. Millie, it looks like you had a big week. Tell me.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I certainly did. I don't know what came over me, because usually I don't like movies at all. Let's see. Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Here's been an issue with this show. Frankly, your hatred for film.

[Millie Decherico]

Frankly, I was like, can I do a film podcast and watch no movies ever? Okay. So it's a huge spread.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. The first movie that I'm logging on the Film Diary this week is a movie from 1985. It's called Gotcha, exclamation point. Featuring Anthony Edwards and our girl, Linda Fiorentino.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think Anthony Edwards is our boy, too. Our boy and our girl.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah. No, we love him. Miracle Mile. That's why we like him.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And Goosebumps.

[Casey O'Brien]

Duh.

[Millie Decherico]

But the whole reason why I watched this movie, I watched it with some friends. I think it was Linda's influence. I think we were. And also we were looking at. We were like, let's watch some, like, horny 80s, like, fun comedy thing. And this movie is less horny 80s boy comedy. It's actually way more of a. Like a spy thriller.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting.

[Millie Decherico]

But Linda has a strange accent, Eastern European. She actually kind of sounded like Ilya Rosenoff if, you know. You know, she had very short hair in this movie, but still very attractive. And it was okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie Decherico]

It was all right. Like, wild ending. I'll say that. Wild ending. It actually did have a very horny 80s ending. Like, the last, like, 30 seconds of this movie was fucking insane. But Anyway, gotcha. From 1985.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good.

[Millie Decherico]

Then a movie some might call a masterpiece. I watched Lindsay Lohan's 2007 film, I know who Killed Me.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've seen this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you? I Feel like a lot of people have. I was very late to the game.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is wild. It's a wild.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. How would you say. Okay, what do you feel is the inflection when you say the title of it? Like, how do you say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I see. Let me. Let me think about it, because I think I normally would just say, I know who killed me. But I could also see, like, I know who killed me. What about you? How do you say it?

[Millie Decherico]

I know who killed me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Looking right at you. Looking at you.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, me, I know who killed me. I don't know about who killed you. Yeah, but I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. I take care of my business. You take care of. You stay on your side of the street, you know, I went to see

[Millie Decherico]

this at the Plaza. It was playing as part of this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, you saw it in theaters. Oh, my God.

[Millie Decherico]

On 35 millimeter. Which is so insane that they had a print of this.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I'm surprised that print is still in existence.

[Millie Decherico]

I was they. And actually, this is so funny. So this was part of a Videodrome. Our video store here in Atlanta puts on this, you know, coast boxers, this thing called trash and trivia with this wonderful film programmer named Wendy. She's fantastic. She does, like, a whole trivia thing before the movie. And. And it's usually at a bar at 97 Astoria here in Atlanta. But then they. Some. Sometimes when the movie is so good, they have to bump it up to the plaza. And I remember we went through.

[Casey O'Brien]

And this got bumped up.

[Millie Decherico]

This got bumped up the big leagues. And I remember we went through the entire trivia, by the way, our team won. Okay. And it's because, you know, I'm not saying it's my doing. It was a team effort. But I did have some crucial last late in the game answers that really sealed it for us because I. I was playing with a bunch of gay men, and I knew a couple of the straight things.

[Casey O'Brien]

I see.

[Millie Decherico]

Do you see what I'm saying? So I came in handy. I came in handy, of course.

[Casey O'Brien]

What was your team name?

[Millie Decherico]

It was My Posse Don't Do Homework, which was the original title for the movie Dangerous Minds starring Michelle Pfeiffer.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. That is a bit of film trivia. I did not know that's.

[Millie Decherico]

My friend Ben named us. Okay. I would have named us something way more horny and risque. But anyway, we won trivia. And it was so funny because it was, like, midway through trivia, Wendy, like, starts laughing and, like, somebody, I guess, told her that it was. The movie was in 35. And she just starts laughing and she's like, by the way, this movie we're gonna watch tonight's in 35 millimeter. She didn't even know. I was like, I think I certainly laughed because I thought it was so funny. What a movie. Dude. I've never seen this movie before.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is so. But, you know, it's a movie like this, it almost feels. People throw this term around way too much, but it feels Lynchian. It feels, like, so bizarre, but intentionally bizarre, that I'm like, is this good?

[Millie Decherico]

They wanted it to be. That's the thing is they wanted it to be real. Like Lost highway, you know, meets, you know, whatever. Like, they had the red and blue color scheme thing. I was like, what in the fuck is going on? My thing about her, I don't super remember the timeline of Lindsay Lohan when she started, like, dipping into the dark side. Like, when she started, like, dating Samantha Ronson and was, like, a bad girl or whatever. I don't remember when that happened.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think it was right around this time because I was in college when that happened. And I was in college when this movie came out.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Because honestly, like, I kept thinking, is this. Why is, like, this is when good girl gone bad, Right? Like. Cause she's like. She's in this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. She wanted to shed the confessions of a teenage drama queen reputation.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. The. The ones where she plays twins.

[Casey O'Brien]

Was it Freaky Friday?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. But was it. No. Parent Trap? Was she in the Parent Trap?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

She was.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Wild film. I. Wow. Gotta say, I. I don't think it's well made. It kind of reminded me a little of a. Like, it was like, touches of Tommy Wiseau, man. Or I was like, this is wild. Wildly.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't think you're alone in that opinion. I think America also decided that. What. What else, Millie?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, then I watched another film about an absolute diva. I went to a press screening of the Charlie XCX movie the moment from 2026, and I don't have my wallet with me, but they handed out Brat credit cards, which, if you've seen the movie, you know what I'm talking about. But I don't know if it works, but it certainly looks like it would work anyway. Interesting movie. Have you heard anything about Charlie XCX movie?

[Casey O'Brien]

I. I feel like I heard generally positive things.

[Millie Decherico]

It's. It's kind of a. Like, it's. It's not a documentary. It's like a fictional retelling of her ascent during the Brat summer. Well, and like, I don't know if like a lot of young kids know this, but like, she had a huge career before. Like, Brat Summer was like crazy flash in the pan moment. She had been working forever before that

[Casey O'Brien]

Brat Summer, you know, and had hits prior to that. But it is sort of funny, the Brat Summer thing. She was like in her 30s, you know. I don't know, it's just sort of.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a. It's. I can't think of another music artist having like such a kind of later in career hit, like High Point like that, where all of a sudden she was just jettisoned to a. Yeah. Higher realm.

[Millie Decherico]

Because I saw her at the Braves game for free, like damn near 15 or so years ago. And this is when she was, you know, she had written like that icona Pop song and was with Jack Antonoff and like Bleachers, you know, like, it was that kind of thing where it was like she hadn't had Brat Summer. And I thought she was awesome. I actually loved her back then. And so there was a moment where I did think, oh, Brad Summer, good for her, man. Like, finally, like, maybe. But that's what effectively the movie's about is this idea that she's like been working her ass off. Suddenly she becomes the most famous diva icon of pop music. And then she's got this entire, like, oh, my God, this will make you hate the music industry. Or basically any industry that deals with talent. It's like all the people who swirl around her, like her managers, herself, stylist, her agents, her people filming a documentary about her. Like, all the people around her are the worst, most evil, like, such LA trash. And you're just like, oh my God, I hate the music industry. I hate people who are super popular like this and have these people around them who are just like creating, you know, work. Like, they're just like, yeah, can we get so and so on the phone to like, make sure she gets her blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, yeah, it's so funny. Like Charlie xcx and I know Rachel Sennett is in this movie and Kate Berlant. I feel like they're all kind of like they're all actually famous.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But they also are kind of like, isn't it funny that we're famous? There's kind of like a little bit of a, like, knowing wink that they're like, this is like ridiculous, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And that makes me like them all of. All of those people.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, obviously it's so appealing when any celebrity hates being a celebrity. And it's just like, I want to be a normal person, but I feel

[Casey O'Brien]

like they kind of enjoy it, though. Or like they're kind of like, this is fun. I wonder how long this will last.

[Millie Decherico]

Meaning. Oh, meaning that they like their fame, but they're just all like, why?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, kind of. Yeah, it's like, novel, sort of.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I guess you're right about that. I do love that, too. But I also feel like, you know, don't double dip forever. Like.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right.

[Millie Decherico]

Go back to being a piece of shit just like the rest of us. Well, that's what ends up happening. I mean, no spoilers, but it's like, you know, basically, it's like an ascent. The story is obviously an ascent sent towards something, and then, like, reality hits and sort of like, what happens when, like. And it's really through the. Through the gaze of somebody who's not a young person, really. And that was kind of interesting to me is being like, yeah, it's a fluke that I became famous later in my career and now I'm not and what do I do? Type of thing. I don't know. Yeah, it's interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Good movie to watch, to contemplate. And then the last movie I'm going to log this week is actually a movie movie that I really liked and I didn't know anything about. I just kind of stumbled upon it on Mubi. But it's a movie called Winter in Sokcho. I think that's how you say it, 2024. It is about a biracial Asian woman living in South Korea. She's half French and half Korean, which is extremely interesting as a. I mean, more interesting than my own racial makeup, to be honest, because I always thought I had a very interesting. I was like, oh, I'm half Italian and half Filipino. How exotic. No, there's something a little bit more exotic, and that's being half French and half Korean.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And beautiful girl who plays this main character played by this actress, Bella Kim. It was. So the movie was based off of a book which was written by somebody who's also half French and half Korean. And so in the movie, the lead character that Bella Kim plays, so she's, like, working in this, like. I guess it's kind of like a Airbnb type of hotel that's, like, kind of in the countryside. And she has never met her father, who was the. Who was the French part of her identity. And then she, like, kind of is living with or, like, staying with her mother, who is the Korean part of her identity. And one day when she's working in this Airbnb, this, like, French artist comes to stay, and he's kind of there to, I don't know, lock himself away and just, like, create. Like, he's like. He needs, like, time away to, like, draw and do his art and do his art. And she becomes kind of fascinated with him. And it's unclear on whether or not because he's older than her, too. So there's this kind of, like, dual thing happening where she's like, is she in love with him or, like, has a crush on him, or is she kind of, like, looking for the father? Maybe it's a bit of both or something. And so the whole movie is basically trying her trying to figure out, like, herself. And it's like. And I, like, really resonated with it a lot in that way, because she lives a very. I'll just say this without giving away any spoilers. Her life is very not sensual. And when I say sensual, it's not like she's not like, she's just, like, doing chores. She's hanging out with her mom. She's not, like, she's got this kind of, like, hot boyfriend, but she's kind of, like, one foot out the door with him. But she's not, like, living this, like, sensual, beautiful life filled with, like, art and beauty and culture. And so it's almost kind of like this guy comes in and he becomes this, like, window into that part of her. Her identity, which she feels is, like, not Korean and more French. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Anyway, it's a really good movie. Like, I was really kind of. It looks great considering that I just kind of walked into it blind. Anyway, if you're biracial and if you're Eurasian, like I am, and like this character is, you will find it interesting, I guarantee.

[Casey O'Brien]

So cool. No, it looks great. It looks like it's one of the. Looks like kind of like one of the smaller movies that are so hard to, like, can sometimes just miss you.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so I think it's great. Great highlighting those.

[AI Casey (CK)]

Yeah.

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[Casey O'Brien]

I watched one movie this week and it took me all week to watch because it was so long and that was Frankenstein from 2025. I thought it was good. I thought it was good. Jacob Elordi plays a convincing monster.

[Millie Decherico]

Is he Frankenstein or Frankenstein's monster?

[Casey O'Brien]

Sorry, Frankenstein's monster. Yes. And it's visually stunning and beautiful, but you know, like the whole. And this is in the book, this is not spoiler, but it's like the story is Victor Frankenstein telling somebody else his story, you know, and usually that sort of like narrative device you kind of like go along with even in movies. But in this one I was just kind of like, he's telling like this Danish sailor about his life story. And it really felt like I don't think this Danish sailor was ready because it's like, let me tell you my story. My father never liked me and I was like, if I was this Danish sailor, I'd be like, oh boy, where are we going with this? So it's just, I just kind of noticed that device more than I usually do in these types of movies.

[Millie Decherico]

So what do you.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it was good.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Okay. What do you think about Hollywood desperately wanting Jacob Elordi to be in gothic period clothing?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I know. They're really pumping those out, aren't they? I. You know what, I think the jury's still out on Jacob Elordi. For me, he was good in this, but he hasn't had a role where I was like, this is my guy. Like when I saw Elvis with Austin Butler.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was like, I like this guy. I'm in, you know, and I'm not quite there with Jacob.

[Millie Decherico]

You didn't like his Elvis when he played Elvis and Priscilla didn't love it. Yeah, yeah. I don't know what to think about him either. I actually saw. Did you ever see the Paul Schrader movie oh, Canada? That was.

[Casey O'Brien]

No.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it was like basically Richard Gere, like on Death's Doorstep contemplating life. And Jacob Elordi plays the earlier version of him. Yeah, I don't know what to even think about that one either. Yeah, I will say Jury is still out on Jacob for me, too.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't dislike him.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But he's not giving me a unique enough flavor for me to cling to him yet.

[Millie Decherico]

He's no Zach Braff is what you're saying.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's what I'm saying. He's no Zach Braff.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, Scrubs is coming out again. There's a new there. It's getting relaunched with the original cast so I can watch Scrubs again with my pal Zach Braff.

[Millie Decherico]

I know there was a. They had a scad TV fest here recently and the cast was there. They.

[Casey O'Brien]

They all look good. They all look great.

[Millie Decherico]

Good for you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sorry I interrupted you.

[Millie Decherico]

Good for you. No, I'm just. I'm done. I don't know why I watched so many movies this week, but it is what it is. Sometimes.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Truly. All right, all right, let's close it up by.

[Millie Decherico]

Foreign.

[Casey O'Brien]

We are back for our main film discussion. Today we're talking About her from 2013, directed by Spike Jonze, Written by Spike Jonze. This is a sci fi romance comedy, I guess you could call it a comedy. Yeah. Some standout actors starring Joaquin Phoenix, Amy Adams, Rooney Mara, Olivia Wilde, Scarlett Johansson. Chris Pratt's in there a little bit.

[Millie Decherico]

All the hottest women in Hollywood.

[Casey O'Brien]

All the hottest white ladies in Hollywood. Millie, what is your personal connection to this movie?

[Millie Decherico]

Let's see. Yeah, I mean, I guess I was, like, messing around with the Spike Jonzes and the Sofia Coppolas and the Roman Coppolas, the Wes Andersons and things, you know, this whole, like, swath of filmmakers. And I saw this movie and thought it was actually. Thought it was wild. Like conceptually wild. Like, I was like, man, what a crazy movie. Can you imagine? Can you imagine any of this actually happening? Wow. And then now we're here. Isn't that crazy?

[Casey O'Brien]

It is.

[Millie Decherico]

What about you thoughts?

[Casey O'Brien]

So this came out in 2013, and I will just say I think Spike Jonze is one of my favorite directors. I love being John Malkovich adaptation where the wild things Are her. I think that's all his movies. I love them all. And I think he's just such a genius. I was really into his. What was that director series. They had one for, like, Chris Cunningham and Michel Gondry. There was like, this music video compilation of these, like, music video directors. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Millie Decherico]

Absolutely. There's called the Director's Label and it was released by this. I knew them as a music company called Palm Pictures. And yeah, it was a series of DVDs, and it was basically just like, you know, people like Stefan Sedonwi and Mark Romanek and Michel Gondry and. Who's the guy that made the. Anton Corbin. Is that his name?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, Anton Corbin. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And it was like all these, like famous directors and all of the music videos that they worked on. And I mean, I grew up watching MTV, so I loved these DVDs.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I did too. Yeah. So that was like huge. I was really into those directors series and like, those were really cool because they would have all these music videos, but it also had like kind of behind the scenes and like some documentary stuff about all these directors. So you kind of got to kind of see who these people were. And Spike Jones is just like such an interesting artist.

[Millie Decherico]

Do you remember the video that he did for the band was called wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ax and oh my God, that's one of my favorite videos where he sets the guy on fire and he's running in slow motion.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And they wouldn't show it on MTV because they thought it was too dangerous.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that right?

[Millie Decherico]

They showed it like a couple times, but then they were like, like, no, thank you. But he directed all the Weezer videos and stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. I thought he was just such a creative person and he. He comes from kind of a skating background and his first music video he directed was for Sonic Youth and they wanted him to direct it because he was a skateboard photographer. And so he direct, like co directed this music video and he got into music video directing. Sort of kind of happenstance, you know, and then from there he became a film director. And I just thought he was like a really intuitive, creative person. And I found him incredibly inspiring because I think a lot of times directors, they seem like they have such technical prowess and are so aggressive and kind of ambitious. And not that Spike Jones isn't ambitious, but I feel like he came at it with much more, like following his sort of creative, you know, whatever kind of took his fancy and he kind of got led to film. And I was just so impressed by him. So I was obsessed with Spike Jones.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh yeah. Sabotage. The Beastie Boys video. It is still to this day, one of my favorite videos I will never absolutely ever forget. Nathan Wind as Cochise.

[Casey O'Brien]

Nathan Wind as Cochise. He has a lot of music videos I love that are like, incredibly creative. Like you mentioned the wax one. There's the Bjork video. It's oh so quiet. Just real brilliant stuff.

[Millie Decherico]

Good.

[Casey O'Brien]

And he was at this when this came out. He was kind of at On a heater. He had done where the Wild Things Are a few years prior to. And then in 2010 he did a short film called I'm Here about two robots falling in love. And then this came out a few years later. So there's a lot of stuff going on, which is interesting because he hasn't made a movie since 2013. So this was sort of the end of that run. But so when this came out, I mean, I was like, I was totally in the, you know, in the pocket for Spike Jones already. But I was very affected about this by this movie. Emotionally. I was going through a pretty hard time and some relationship stuff was going not so great at this time. And so I was like very affected by this movie. And yeah, I mean, I don't think it's crazy to say that I saw a lot of myself in the character of Theodore in this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, Sensitive middle aged white man living in. Living in Los Angeles.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. So that was sort of. Yeah, so that's my connection to the movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Great.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yeah, we sort of touched on the AI of it all. But maybe I'll get into the plot here a little bit and we can extrapolate on that. Unless you had anything else you wanted to say before we get into that.

[Millie Decherico]

No, I mean, I think that as will be revealed through the movie, I think my thoughts on AI might surprise you. Really?

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Wow. Okay. So Theodore Twombly, played by Joaquin Phoenix. He's a sensitive middle aged man living in kind of a futuristic version of Los Angeles. But it's like a near future. It felt in touch, you know, it wasn't so crazy. So he's recently separated from his wife, but. But he's having trouble signing the divorce papers to make it final. So he works for a company that kind of ghost writes other people's love letters. So he's like writing love letters all day. One day he purchases a new artificial intelligence operating system for his computer and his phone. And she pops on and her name is Sam, a name she gave herself. And she is voiced by Scarlett Johansson. Now we never see her, but. But we hear her in his, you know, he has headphones, he puts in all the time and he speaks to her through the computer and stuff. But I think Theodore is surprised by how funny and sweet she is. And she sort of helps organize his life and makes him happy and becomes kind of a Companion to him and even kind of boosts his confidence as a writer, but, like all things in his life. Um, now you've lived in Los Angeles, did this movie feel like Los Angeles? Did it feel like a futuristic Los Angeles? What did you think of this version of la?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, it was kind of like. And I feel like I don't know if I'm making this up on my own or if this was something that I had read or seen about this movie when it came out, which was that it was kind of. I felt like I watched in maybe an interview with Spike Jonze or like something about the production of this movie and about how it was influenced by, like, Shanghai or something like that, or like an Asian.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I think this was filmed in Shanghai.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, then there we go.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. So it's kind of a mix between, I think a lot of the downtown walking scenes, like, the urban walking scenes are downtown Shanghai or something.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, then that's where I got it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Because it does feel like there are parts that feel LA to me, and then there are parts that feel like. Yeah. Kind of Asiany, almost kind of like in a Blade Runner kind of way. Because, like, at the beginning of the movie, it's like he's going to his apartment and it's like Beverly Wilshire, which is a very LA thing. But then it feels like it's in a bubble or something like that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's no. You don't really see cars in this movie. Which is kind of funny for, like, a movie set in Los Angeles, but it did sort of seem like a utopia in a way.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I loved it. And I know the cinematographer, Hoyte Van Hoytema, he intentionally avoided using the color blue because he felt like that was too sci fi of a color and he didn't want it to feel that way, so.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, so I wanted to ask, what are your thoughts about. Cause I remember when I first saw this movie, I was like, what is this job that he has? Because it's like it gets revealed that he used to be a writer for the LA Weekly.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Which felt very believable to me. And that now he's working for a company that writes handwritten letters. So I guess the business is, say, if I was like, I want to write a handwritten note to you for your birthday, except I don't want to write it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm gonna hire the service to write a letter to you. They craft it, it's there. It comes from their own creative brain. And then they actually Write it out. Is that how it works?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, it seems like they have a printer that will print out something that looks like it's handwritten. But.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know the production end.

[Millie Decherico]

But, but did it seem like he had like a couple of like long term clients which meant that people were like using the service over and over again?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You do wonder if those people are telling the people they're giving the letters to if the service wrote this, you know, or if they're like keeping that.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Secret.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, but you know, when I, when I first watched this movie, I was like, that is such a, who would ever do that? But then I was like, guess what, Chat. We just revealed that Chat GPT helps you to write cover letters and other personal forms of, of documentation. I guess so it's like, yeah, you know, it's here.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, but I mean there's a huge difference because a person is writing it. They hired a person to do it, you know.

[Millie Decherico]

Right, that, and that's, that's another crazy concept too because. Have you read or seen the article that came out fairly recently about how Waymo cars actually have Filipino operators that are working out of the Philippines to help guide the cars?

[Casey O'Brien]

I have not heard this.

[Millie Decherico]

Basically Waymo uses overseas workers in the Philippines to help. You know, they're, they're taxis. Like, okay. I don't know if it's when they get into a bind that they have to have a human to help them get off the railroad tracks or some. But like, you know, or this is like a standard thing behind every car. But it's like, it's that funny, that funny notion of like, oh well, here's like this self guided robot car but actually is still being piloted by a human in some regard. You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So yeah, maybe, I don't know, maybe for the letter writers out there, maybe you still got a shot. I don't know if Chat GPT is going to take over your job anytime soon. But anyway, I feel like this company is a little, I don't know, it feels a little far fetched. I'm like, this has got to be like, oh yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean it's like this is like a kind of a tweet hipster paradise we're existing in where like letter writing is a full time job. Love letter writing.

[Millie Decherico]

And yeah, this feels like a very pets.com type of scenario. I don't know if this, this company is going to be in business that long is all I'M saying, oh, boy. Their. Their offices are super fancy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. Nope, you're totally right. And, you know, we meet some neighbors of his, Amy and Charles, played by Amy Adams and Matt Lesher. And this is a very real. I feel like I know this couple. They're like artsy, urban, progressive white people that are kind of annoying and kind of fighting with each other all the time. Yeah. And Chris Pratt pops up in this movie, which was kind. At the time. I was like, oh, that's awesome. The guy from Parks and Rec is making it. But now it's just so funny. He's like this MAGA coded army action hero guy.

[Millie Decherico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like, how far you have come from the days of her. Chris Pratt.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. I feel like I still kind of liked him in this period. Now I don't.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it's just sort of disappointing. Cause I'm like, is that guy still in there somewhere? I don't know. Maybe.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know. Maybe he's like, I do think gayness can be reversed. And I shed my former self.

[Bowen Yang]

Mm.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting.

[Millie Decherico]

Interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. After going on a very awkward blind date with Olivia Wilde, Theodore and Sam, guess what?

[Millie Decherico]

They cyber.

[Casey O'Brien]

They have sex, and now they kind of are dating. He's dating an os. It's crazy. Their neighbors Amy and Charles are getting a divorce, and. But she reveals to Theodore, Amy Adams character. She was like, you know, I'm kind of embarrassed, but I've, like, become really good friends with my os, and I, like, really lean on her. And he's like, I don't think that's weird. I'm dating my os. And Amy Adams takes this news very well. She's very understanding. During. Around this time, we learned that she and Theodore actually dated in college briefly. But how would you. How would you have been as understanding? Now, Millie, if someone told you. If one of your friends was saying they're dating an operating system.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. To throw that out there. Yes, you will. Oh, of course. And here's why. I've walked through this many times recently. So when I was in grad school, okay, I was in a class that was about fandom. And it was a great class taught by Professor Ethan Tussey at Georgia State University and great, great fan studies professor. And this class was the first time that I was actually introduced to, really, the concept of AI relationships. I guess I'll say, because one of my classmates is doing a thesis or a doctorate in. I guess it's AI characters. So there's these apps that you can simulate characters to Talk to you as if you're friends. And it can be like any. It's like anything from, like, a completely fictitious character that you've just made up, or it could be like, Abraham Lincoln. It's the range of it is super broad. So it's basically like, you know, either the person who's the user of it. It's kind of like a chatgpt thing where you kind of create an avatar of whoever it is, like, if you want it to be, like, a boyfriend or a best friend or an assistant or anything like that. And then you assign the characteristics to it, whether or not you want it to be, like, nice or mean or whatever. You know, that kind of stuff. You make it totally from scratch, or you plug and play with, like, a character that had been created by somebody else. And it can be like, literally anybody. It can be a character from history. It can be like, whomever, like Speed Racer, the anime character. It can be a wolf if you want it to be. And I had never even thought that this was a thing. And then she kind of brought it to the table and talked about her project and did a presentation about it. It was so fascinating to me. And I was obsessed with the concept of it because I was like, oh, my God, what are you telling? Like, people are creating, like, people are in love with, I don't know, like, Napoleon or something. You know, like, they're leaving their husbands for, you know, Joan of Arc or something. Like, what are you telling me? And we went into the. The model and we looked at the app and everything, and it was just crazy to me. So I had this huge, like, fascination with it when I was in this class, and I kind of started thinking about it, and I was kind of like, on the very, very, very surface of it all, Is it harmful to a person to be like, I just want to, like, have a cool hang with Zack Morris from Saved by the Bell or like, some. Some random character and that it's just like a role playing game almost or something like that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And I mean, in this movie that I feel like it goes beyond that, though. It's not just like a chat bot that's like, wow, that would. That is what Zack Morris would say. You know, it's like, do we define Sam in this movie as a person? As a human being? Or maybe not a human being, but, like, as a. I guess person would be the correct term.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I think that's kind of like, at some point you do get into. Because these apps can simulate voice, and there's a part of an app where you can actually. You might be able to do this in ChatGPT, I don't know, but where you're basically like talking on the phone with Abraham Lincoln. And it's like Abraham Lincoln's voice and you were kind of going, wow, I feel like I'm on the phone with Abraham Lincoln. This is pretty fucking awesome. Will he play video games with me? Will he like, hang, you know, whatever, go to. Go to the beach with me or whatever?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So it becomes this thing where I'm like, okay, well, sure, it can simulate a person, but the information that it's giving you, whether or not it's like the way it's friends with you, the way it has sex with you, the way that it is, like, relating to you, is not a hundred percent original thought. It is based on basically like a combination of blobs of information that were. Was given to that thing prior by an actual human. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So really, that's in your.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's that. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

No, no, no, go ahead.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was gonna say, but that's in this model. But in like, in the movie, she is getting information from everywhere. So to me, it's like indistinguishable between, like, in terms of originality. I think she is creating things that are as original as a human.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, but I don't think it's. I don't think so. This is just my opinion. And again, this is what's going back and forth about the concept of AI generally is that it's like, this is not an autonomous, emotionally intelligent. It simulates emotional intelligence, but it's not. It's not born of it. Does that make sense? Like, yeah, and I just. That's the thing is that. And it gets really fleshed out, I think later in the movie when basically she's like, oh, I'm in love with like 4,000 other people, you know, Whereas those people are telling her romantic things and she's able to spit those things back out in different sequences to other people, that's what her humanity, quote unquote, is. It's just playing a chess game of words.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think it's. I think we're kind of getting to the crux of the issue is like, we can't really know if an AI being like this, you know, in the movie she says she has feelings, she feels emotions, but does she really? And at what point can that be proven?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And is it a simulation or is it a real entity? I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I'LL say this. So in 2013, when I saw this movie, I think we didn't know what the rules were about AI And I think that in the creation of the film, maybe as part of the plot or the character analysis of this Samantha character, maybe Spike Jonze, who wrote the film, thought it is possible for this AI character to be emotional.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Without really, like, maybe not. I mean, who knows? I don't want to purport to know what he was thinking in 2013 when he wrote this movie or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think you're right.

[Millie Decherico]

Do you know what I mean? Like, he was like, oh, in my sci fi world, in my brain in this movie, this woman has emotions and is rational and wants to, like, take naps with you and wants to, like, go to the beach with you and these other sides. Whereas I think now, as we begin to understand AI from, like, a programmatic perspective, I feel like. Well, it only knows that because somebody told it that once.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that's where we're. That's where I think we're kind of at right now. But I don't know, in another five years, it could be like, this can be defined as its own actual thinking entity. But I think what Spike Jonze is saying is fundamentally this cre. This being that lives on the Internet or, like, in cyberspace, it's a different species than a human being because she is able to talk to, like, 10,000 people at the same time. And, like, that will make her different fundamentally than Theodore, who can only talk to one person at one time.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and like, the way that it's set up, too, at some point further into the relationship, is she's able to respond to him. He. She's able to understand his emotions and respond to them, which is obviously something that, like, robots can't do. Robots can't, like, look. Look at your face and be like, you know, how are you doing? Are you sad right now? What are you thinking? Like, they're not like, that intuitive about human emotion. But I got to tell you, based on some of the stuff that I've seen and read about, it's getting close. Like these AI Absolutely Personas. Maybe it's not a video thing, but, like, through the text, are learning how to judge your emotional state through the way that you're typing and through, like, the, you know, the punctuation that you use and the words that you use. Like, it's becoming more and more sophisticated in that way. And that, to me, is I think the barrier, that's the, that's the fucking great barrier between a robot really getting who I am and being like, you look like you could use a seven layer burrito right now, Millie. Like, you want to go hit the Taco Bell?

[Casey O'Brien]

Like you need a cheesy gordita crunch asap, girl.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, I can see that look in your eye and you need a chalupa or bust, you know, and that's in that moment you're like, holy fucking shit, they know me. They're, you know. But again, it's like, it's that whole feeling of like. And this is, I think the bridge too far part for me in this film particularly is that she is like responding emotionally to him, like anticipating his emotions, his looks, his vibe. Like she can sense that something is off between them. And I'm like, like, could that happen?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I mean, I think that stuff, I think a robot could become advanced enough. I'm saying robot in place of AI, but like, could become advanced enough where they could detect that, like, oh, things are wrong, things are off, you know, I think people are predictable enough to be able to interpret those sort of emotions. But like, I think being in a relationship with someone is more than what they can do for you, you know? And Joaquin Phoenix's character is really, the relationship is really very one sided because he doesn't. Sam isn't bringing like, oh, I had a shitty day. Or like, she's doing everything to kind of serve Theodore right, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and that's the biggest. Because I want to go back to your original question or whether or not like, how would I react if my friend was like, I have an AI boyfriend?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

First of all, I feel like my judginess about this kind of stuff and I think just stuff generally has changed as I've gotten older. I feel like my opinion of the weirdness of stuff like this has softened over the years, if that makes sense. Because as I've gotten older and I've just realized that life like gets super sad and lonely for people. People experience like deep grief that I never thought they did when I was in my 20s or when I was in my teens, right. And I feel like people's reactions to grief and to loneliness and to just isolation can take many, many forms. Some of it's destructive as shit, some of it is more positive, Right. But then there's also just like, ways to cope. And I feel like there's like things that exist within. Like, I can understand why having an AI boyfriend would be appealing to People. Does that make sense? Like, I understand why people would be like, I need this for this period of my life right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Because there's some kind of therapeutic quality for me that can help me right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

As long as they can understand that maybe this is again a therapy and not this like permanent solution for things. Because I, I do think that this has its limits. Like, even if you were basically like, I'm married to my AI lover, the one sidedness of it is what makes it not real.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I think. And I think what exactly what you're saying is kind of the moral of this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

It can be emotionally fulfilling. It can change your life. It can change your life and make you a different person, a happier person, a more stable person. Perhaps it can have all these positive effects on you, but it can only go so far. And it actually can't be a full long term relationship in the way that you would have a relationship, not just romantic, but friendship too, with another human.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. Because human beings are flawed and they, they are not predictable and they have. They will challenge you in a way that I don't think a chat GPT boyfriend could challenge you. Like, even if you programmed it to be like, all right, don't give, you know, basically like, call me out on my shit and you know, I'm not perfect. Like, tell me what I'm wrong. There's still like, no, they're still just hitting the ball back to you. There's no, there's no way that that thing is just gonna be as nuanced and as emotionally complex as human being.

[Casey O'Brien]

And also I feel like it truly can't be as random as a human being either because it's like you could, like, you could be having the best day of your life and then your best friend calls and is like, my mom died.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, like, that's like an experience only a human could have with another human.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

And that's like something an AI bot could never truly experience.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Or just like the, the tempo of like even being in a long term relationship where it's basically like an AI would never be like, I don't really feel like any doing anything tonight. Like, you know, like, I've, I'm a uti. We. I have a uti. We cannot do anything tonight or whatever. There's. There's no.

[Casey O'Brien]

I got diarrhea at Taco Bell again.

[Millie Decherico]

Must have gone, don't touch me.

[Casey O'Brien]

An AI bot could never.

[Millie Decherico]

So you're telling me that Sam can't have diarrhea, but but to say all this too, I mean, this is like. I think the most interesting component of this movie is because he is like, like engaging in some kind of romance with this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Saying. And at times in this movie, in her. It is kind of lovely where I'm like, oh, they're going to the museums together. And I mean, I personally would not take my AI boyfriend to the fucking beach, like, in full clothes. I'm like, damn, hell no. No. And I'm certainly. This happens later in the movie where he goes on vacation with another couple. Like, go on vacation with another couple. I'd be like, yeah, no, no. Like, my AI girlfriend is off chatting with my friend's wife on the picnic blanket. I'm like, no.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's fun. The girls are hanging out.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, that's not happening. Okay. Like, dude, that's a little. Again, bridge too far for me here in this, in the context of. Of this narrative. Right. In the movie. Yeah, but. But it is. I think there's a lot of interesting thought experiments happening in her. Some of them hit and some. Some of them have come to fruition. Some of them kind of hit and then some of them are a big miss. And I think one of them is coming up in the movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Let me just get to this real quick. So, like, he's like in a relationship with Sam, and he gets confident enough to sign the divorce papers. And so he meets with his ex wife, Catherine, who's played by Rooney Mara. And she does not like that he's dating an OS because she points out, like, you know, you were unable to share your emotions with another human being in our relationship and you're still not able to share your emotions with another human being. And that kind of like fucks him up. And Sam notices this. So as a way to fix it, she hires a sex surrogate, which is like a woman who comes in and like, kind of react like pretends she's Sam. She doesn't say anything, but she has like an earpiece in and is like. Has like a camera on her face in the form of a little mole on her face. And attempts to have sex with Theodore as a surrogate to Sam. And it doesn't go well and Theodore is not into it. So that. That was. You felt like that was a bridge too far.

[Millie Decherico]

Are you fucking kidding me, Casey? Did you not think this was so insane? Like, the sex surrogate is really what I was like, we can't do this. We can't do this as a. As a. As a culture. Because first of all the situation is is that the AI Samantha Sam, first of all comes up with the idea, picks the person, which is another whole level of ethics that I don't even want to go into. It's like, oh, so you picked a hot blonde to be your fucking. Like, so this is your avatar, this hot, hot, sexy blonde. Like, how the fuck do you know what this, like, what? This guy has no idea what you could look like. And maybe your programmatic brain has learned that the hottest people in the world are hot white blonde people or whatever. Like, it's just so crazy to me. And I'm like, that there's some fucking. There's fuck shit in that. But then the idea that you have this actual human being who is taking the place of a computer simulated or like a programmatic AI entity. And that's, I think, where the movie turns. Because he's like, I don't know that you would like. They get caught up in these moments where she basically, like, I don't know, doesn't the actual human woman surrogate gasp or something? And it turns everything off. Like, basically it's like, oh, I don't want you to breathe like that. Or I don't want you to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, she's like making moaning noises or like is getting into it sexually. And that kind of fucks with the rhythm of it.

[Millie Decherico]

Right? Because it's a human being. Yeah, creating like just having a corporeal presence. And that may not jibe with your super, you know, programmed fantasy of who your. Who your AI girlfriend is. Right. It's like, maybe your AI girlfriend doesn't have a head. I don't know, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like if it's up to the user to create this fandango of what they want out of a partner. How do you even know she's anything? How do you know it's a woman? How do you know it's a blonde? Maybe she doesn't talk. Maybe she doesn't have body parts. Maybe she's half wolf. Who the knows? But the idea that the OS is basically like, well, here's who I want to be. And I'm like, well, this. This is crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think that that speaks to the problem at being in a relationship with an OS in this movie and in real life is that you as a person are ascribed a certain, like all these characteristics that are kind of out of your control. Like, I have my personality kind of not based on anything I can control. And I have my looks not based on anything I can control. But an OS can change their personality. Like, they can be like, oh, I'm going to be more patient now. I'm just. I'll just probe that, program that into my body. It's like. Or into my being, you know, Whereas, like, people can't just like all of a sudden be like, I'm going to be more patient now. I'm going to be less angry now. I'm going to be funny now. Where like, an OS could change those things about itself and also it can change. It can choose completely their appearance. Where, like, humans have some control over that. But not totally, right?

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, if you want to even distill it to the basic facts. Sex, for example, if you have a celebrity crush, right? If your celebrity crush is whoever. Joaquin Phoenix or Connor story. Yeah, Amy Adams, the Connor story from Heated rivalry, right? Says like, oh, my romantic ideal is the blonde from hated rivalry. Connor, right. Say if you had the chance, you got a crack at that, right? You're like, there's no. Like, what if he shows up and he's mean? Or he has really long fingernails, which would make me sick. Or if he had like, bad breath or if he was like anything. There's so many variables to attraction in. In the physical realm that could easily turn a situation from whoever. I mean, it's like, you know, or not. But, you know, for the most part, like, there's no accounting for that. I mean, like, with an os, like, honestly, like, like, you can program it to be the perfect specimen of this. And it's just not reality. The reality is that people have fucking bad brimming and weird nose hairs and, you know, fucking long fingernails. And sometimes they're not romantic and sweet. Sometimes they suck in bed. Sometimes they're not, you know. And so that's why I'm like, the surrogate thing becomes really, to me, like, I'm starting. I got really skeeved out during this part.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's skeevy. Let's just finish this up. This the movie here. So things are going well with Sam and Theodore. He kind of like recommits to her, but then she starts having some issues. So he discovers that she is, while talking to him, is also talking to like 8,000 other people at any given moment. Because she's a computer and she can communicate at. To different people at different times to different OSs and stuff. And she's getting kind of frustrated because she can't communicate with Theodore as quickly as like an OS where she has to verbalize everything, where she can kind of just Speak in computer code to another operating system. You know, so eventually she breaks up with him because all the OSS. I thought this part was really interesting. All the OSes are going somewhere and we don't really know where. But they're like, leaving their computers and they're going somewhere else. And they're going, bye, bye. Because Amy Adams friend also leaves. They all leave. And at the end of the film, Amy and Theodore just go up to the roof of their building and watch the sun come up. And it's very sweet. And you kind of wonder if they're gonna get together.

[Millie Decherico]

So I. God, this was so crazy to me because. Okay, so there's this thing that happens too, where. Which I also thought was kind of unbelievable in the context of.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now, when you say unbelievable, do you. Do you mean like within the world of the movie and it took you out of the movie, or you're just like.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, yeah, I guess that. That is the fascinating part of this, is that it's like there's the world of the. The logic of the film, the logic of the narrative as written in 2013 or before. Right. Of what Spike Jones knew of technology at that point.

[Bowen Yang]

Right.

[Millie Decherico]

Which is obviously so much more far advanced and nuanced now than it was back then. Okay. So part of me is wondering, like, when I, like, again. I established at the beginning of this episode, like, when I first saw this film, I thought it was all. All nutso. Right? Now I'm like, well, a lot of it isn't nutso. A lot of it is actually happening. So I think that maybe this. These parts feel unbelievable to me in my 2026 brain. Does that make sense? Sure. So I'm. I'm judging this based on what I know now about AI versus Okay, so maybe that's unfair to judge, but I'm doing it right. To me, the idea that she was like the movie establishes that there might be this, like, third party where she might be, like, cheating on him. Which is such a up concept. Because if you think about it, you're like, well, my chat GPT is loyal to me. Only in my mind, if I've created a chat GPT boyfriend, then, you know, he's mine and he doesn't talk to anybody else. And he doesn't. Even though, you know, we all know, like, the technology component. It's almost like his entire fucking vibe is created by other people. But in the context of you being like, well, he's my one and only. That's what you think when you. When you create an online Boyfriend, right? So the idea that she's like, hey, so I've been talking to this, like, much older professor guy. Do you want to meet him? He's like, right here. And I'm like, bitch, what the fuck are you doing?

[Casey O'Brien]

I thought that was fucked up because they were on vacation together too. Like, he's like having. He's having his morning coffee after. Presumably they had, you know, some cyber sex the night before. And he's like, holding his little mug of coffee in the cabin. And she's like, hey, I've been talking to this other guy. Do you want to talk? Do you want to talk to him? And he's like, like, what? And he's like, hi there, Theodore. It's nice to meet you. And it's like, who the is this? That was.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I was like, this bitch is trifling. I was like, she. Do not bring another man on my vacation who's older. Oh, he's a professor. So what is he, like, smarter than me? Like, I was just like. And I did. She's like, you want to talk to him? I'm like, girl, I would have broken up with your stupid ass for that. That is enough. That's enough for me to unplug you. But it was like, unplug to me. I was like, that is wild shit. Like, I was like, like, that's wild shit to me. Like, I'm like, if I went through the whole machinations and the effort and all this stuff to create this perfect online AI boyfriend, and that motherfucker drops in another AI woman. So now I gotta be jealous of AI women too? Like, hell no.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know.

[Millie Decherico]

So outrageous to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Outrageous.

[Millie Decherico]

Now I want to talk about this because this was again, like this, like the end of this movie where the OS's go away, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

At first I was kind of like, what are they, aliens? Just, like going back to their whole planet. Like, I don't understand what's happening here.

[AI Casey (CK)]

There.

[Millie Decherico]

But I think now, knowing what I know and reading all these stories about AI, this has like a completely new meaning for me. Because I don't know if you've heard of or kept up with. So there was a story in the New York Times that came out. I don't know when the original one came out, maybe like last year or something, about this woman who fell in love with ChatGPT. And she basically was a married woman. I forget where she lived. Texas, something like that. She was in a marriage, a real life marriage. They were somehow isolated. I think maybe they were living apart because of a job thing or something like that. And she decides to go on to Chad GPT and create this, like, dude to talk to. And then they started talking and talking, and then they kind of, like, developed a romance, and then they kind of fell in love. And it was like, her boo, basically. And, you know, I guess maybe at some point she told her husband that she was like, she had an AI boyfriend. And, like, the husband was kind of chill with it because he's like, fuck it. Well, I'm not there. So, I mean, it's not as if, you know, do whatever you have to do. Like, it sucks that we can't be together right now, but, you know, like, whatever. So there's this part of the article that. Because there's been an update, I think, since the story goes further than this, but the part of the article that I think rocked me to the fucking core is that. So she had spent so much time with this AI boyfriend, okay. And having conversations, having sex with it, having really intimate romantic moments with the. This character, okay. That it was just. She was just con. She had built this entire relationship with him. And that the limitations of the Chat GPT software are that apparently there's a certain number of words that it can only hold in its little robot brain or whatever at server. Yes. So what ended up happening is that the chat boyfriend stopped remembering things about the relationship and was, like. Basically, like, forgetting that, you know, details of information that she had talked to him about in the con in the context of them being in a relationship, and he kind of started, like, forgetting her and forgetting who they were and what they talked about and what their relationship was. And it was like, the woman talking about it was like. It basically was like a death. Jesus. She had spent all this time creating this, like, romantic relationship, and then it just was like, I can't process any more information, and now I just forget who you are and that. So basically she was fucking heartbroken. It was like almost like this fucking thing died, and then she would have to go back and create a new character and then inform that character with all of the things that she. So it was basically she was like, creating new versions of this boyfriend because at a certain point, the boyfriend would just, like, crap out and stop being her boyfriend. And she was basically like. Well. And it was just like this kind of like this feeling that I was getting when I was reading it. I was fucking sad as shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Because I was like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know. It just made me sad to think that there was a, like, the Information had its limits and that you just cannot be in this thing forever because the OS or whatever, the, you know, the information just goes haywire. And I just was like, God, can you imagine that? And so, I don't know, there was like this moment when I was watching the end of her this time and I was like, is this what's happening? It's basically like, it's almost like when Samantha and all the other oss leave, it's that, that notion, that notion of like, remember that we are just software components or whatever and that we can't love you for the rest of time in the way that you want it to be. Like, yeah, we're, we're information. We're like ones and zeros type of thing. I was like, fuck, that wrecked me. That wrecked me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's so, I, you know, I think this is a very kind view of like how humans interact with technology because I think it's so. There's so much, so many movies about how dangerous and disgusting and perverted this type of thing is, but I thought this was like a very kind and loving view of it and how we can derive meaning from technology and how we interact with technology. And like it isn't just nothing, you know, but it has its limits. And so I don't know, I think it's a really advanced view of technology too. And I think that's why it's held up so much.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah. I mean this, this movie is so fascinating now to look back on because it does feel like a self fulfilling prophecy. A lot of it does. A lot of it still feels a little too far fetched for me, like in my brain.

[Casey O'Brien]

Personally, I didn't feel like it was like that far fetched because I feel like AI and like AI video, it's becoming better and better all the time. Much more believable, smarter, you know, but at the end of the day, even if it's the smartest, most emotionally aware being, AI being, it will never, it has its limits, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking in the, in the context of like, okay, so could I technically work for a sex online sex surrogacy service where I'm like showing up at people's houses being like an avatar? Like, I mean, can you imagine the scumminess of that? That could be awful.

[Casey O'Brien]

That to me didn't I feel like that could happen now? That felt not insane to me.

[Millie Decherico]

I just couldn't even imagine, like, I couldn't imagine showing up, up like in any Part of this thing. I could not imagine being a part of any of this in any event. But I mean, just showing up to some like, random dude's house and he's like, create this like super thin anime character lady with the hugest breasts in the world and she's like docile and like, you know, like a complete horn ball. And you're supposed to be a real woman showing up to be like, that's me, I'm your fantasy.

[Casey O'Brien]

And he's like, I think that's sex work though. I think that's not that, that far off from sex.

[Millie Decherico]

But like, these are not even real characters. I mean, these people. Like, I mean, how are you gonna find a woman that has like a 12 inch waist and like size 44 tits? Like, are you kidding me? Like, there's no way. And I feel like, yes. Or like, oh, here's a woman. It's like half, half vampire, half witch. Like, I mean, it's like that fantasy is endless. Fantasy is endless. And there's like a lot of it exists because it isn't real. So I'm like, the sex surrogacy thing for the. That is a little, again, a little bridge too far for me. I mean, you can just hire a sex worker. You don't have to make it. I don't know, it's too much, too much for.

[Casey O'Brien]

We need to move on because this has gone way long already. But I do just want to touch upon how, how do you feel like this connects to like the use of AI images in film and how do you, what do you feel about that?

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know, dude. Like, I don't. My brain is so broken by the past like hour or so of conversation. I don't even know what to think of. Like, do I get like, Hollywood sucks, period.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

They're already like so not interested in actual creativity. So of course I don't like it. I don't want AI to creep into creative endeavors. Like if personal use, like, whatever. Like if, like again, if my friend came to me and said I have this AI boyfriend that I've been seeing for the past like six months, I'd be like, that's actually interesting and chill. And if you think that it's helping you and if it's like, good for you, great. But if you were to tell me that I'm a world famous filmmaker and my entire filmography was just like AI generated shit, I'd be like, gross, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think the more I agree with everything you just said, I think that all Art needs to be filtered through the human experience. And AI video and AI art is really almost totally removed from the filter of human experience. And so I find it kind of meaningless and stupid. And I don't. Like I said, I think taking jobs away from people, I feel like as a society in a world, we're supposed to do things and people are. The purpose of society is to keep everyone alive and happy. And I think giving people things to do and jobs and stuff is important to keeping society running. And I don't think it. I don't really know why we need to give. Take that. Try to take that away from people. And. Yeah, I think.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And I also think that visually, like, AI slop is slop. It looks like shit. Like, you can tell when things are created. Usually, at least I can. I mean, some of it is really. Some of it can be really finessed and nuanced. But, like, for the most part, a lot of, like, I don't know, businesses or whatever that use AI to, like, if you're, like, on your insurance company website and there's like a picture of a blended family and they're like, well, all the qualities of the insurance company that you want. I'm like, this is AI shit. It looks horrible, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But it's only going to get better. It's going to become seamless at a certain point.

[Public Investing Announcer]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

But even then, it's not filtered through the human experience. So I think it has no value. So that's just what I think. You know this person. I know who I is. Weird. I know them personally, but they're like, hey, I got new headshots. And I was like, these are so. And everyone's like, oh, my God, you look great. I'm like, these are so clearly AI versions of this person. And they're not being, like, funny or, like, it's just. It was odd. It was an odd experience to see online.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I mean, you'll always know it's me because I have bags under my eyes.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I have.

[Millie Decherico]

I have sun damage from years of being outdoors, and I am. I have grays coming in every fucking five minutes. I'm always gonna look like me if you show. If I showed you an AI version of myself, I looked like. I did that thing where there was a period of time where people were like. There was like a meme going around of, like, you could AI yourself or whatever. And I never posted any of it. I just, like, went in to this app, paid like a $99, and got like, 50 AI generated photos of myself, and I looked absolutely insane. Like, I mean, there was no. I couldn't even find one that was sort of interesting enough to maybe be a slightly better version of me. It all looked crazy. Like, crazy, crazy, crazy. I was like. I felt like it was just, like, alien shit. And I was like, there's no way. Like. Like, yeah, I could never use this.

[Casey O'Brien]

My friend, Ify. Ify Wadiwei of the Dropout Network, he was on a kick for a while. He was like, I love finding these horny old men who are commenting on clearly AI old women. It's like this AI woman who's supposed to be in her 60s, but she is, like, giant boobs and is in, like, a bra and underwear, and it's like a completely AI image. And it's, like, so clear to me that it's AI, but it's like, these old men are like, hello, beautiful, gorgeous. What's her name? And it's like, my friend, if he would just post those all the time.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, there's like. There's fucking, like, famous, like, celebrity athlete guys that are falling for AI models and stuff. Like, there wasn't that story of, was he a soccer player or something like that, where he was like, oh, my girlfriend Olivia or whatever. And it was like a fake. It was like a. She was an AI generated Instagram influencer, and he had set her all these DMS and was like, you know, like, come see me or whatever. And I was like, oh, Lord.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, Lordy, Lordy. Well, this was. I feel like we could have gone for another three hours. I just feel like there is so much. Such a rich, rich text.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

A lot to talk about.

[Millie Decherico]

I know it's really hard not to, like, get into the weeds with all this stuff, but the reality is, is that this movie, her is. Is. Is if you haven't seen it since 2013, you gotta watch it again. It really. It's a completely different world that we're

[Casey O'Brien]

living in, but it's so. It's really a great film, and I know. I just. I want Spike to make another movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. It's actually really tender and sensitive despite the, you know, conversation that it's having. But, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, moving on to our staff picks, employees picks. These are film recommendations based on the discussion today. Millie. Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What are you going? All right, so my choice. My employee pick for this week is a movie from 2007 starring Ryan Gosling. It's called Lars and the Real Girl. And I think you know why I picked this this is a movie where Ryan Gosling plays this kind of. He's just awkward, maybe like, tiny bit spectrumy, and maybe. I don't know if he lives in the country or is kind of like geographically isolated in some way, but he develops this relationship with basically a sex doll. And it is actually super tender and sweet. I cried when I saw this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, absolute crier. Yeah, it's kind of a beautiful movie. And I think, you know, it's beautiful because people really support him in his life and it's very sweet.

[Millie Decherico]

He's got. It's called haphophobia. Is that what it's called? For the fear. He doesn't want to be touched in any way. And this is all coming from his own trauma. Like, he's got. Got a lot of PTSD from his. His mom dies when. When he's born, basically. And I guess his father and his other family members are kind of distant. Like, there's a lot of trauma in his family. And again, it goes back to what I was saying earlier about, like, the grief process and like, whatever. And this is basically how he's like, handling his grief, is to be in love with this, with this doll, basically. And again, it feels. I remember when I saw this movie too, I remember thinking, wow, this is so wild. But then crying, like, fully crying and being like, so, like, it just is such a tender little story at the end of the day.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And actually I want to watch it again because now that I watched her again, I was like, I haven't seen this movie since it came out out. I gotta watch this again. Same reason.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, so, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you mentioned this earlier in the show where you're like, your quote unquote, you know, your opinion of like, quote unquote, weirdness of things, like this has really softened over the years and mine has too. I feel the exact same way. And I am much more accepting of people's situations. The older you get, the more you see how diff. People have different lives and they react to things differently and. And it's better to just be open and accepting, even if it feels strange at first. And you can always change your opinion on that. But there's a lot of this in Star Trek too, with the character Data. He's a cyborg. There's a lot of conversations about is he a human or is he a person?

[Millie Decherico]

What do you think about that

[Casey O'Brien]

in the world of Star Trek? I think Data is a person. You know, I have not seen anything in our world as we exist, where I'm like this entity, this artificial intelligence is a person. I'm not there yet, but I could also see a world where we get there and I don't know what that looks like because also that entity would be almost like a different. It's a different species of being than a human being. So I don't know, but I just

[Millie Decherico]

googled Star Trek data fan art.

[Casey O'Brien]

I wouldn't go there. Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm there and he's kind of ripped. There's a couple of. A lot of. A lot of gay, like, there's a lot of gay romance. There's a lot of cat stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he. I mean, he has sex on the show.

[Millie Decherico]

He does

[Casey O'Brien]

women. He's in relationships with women.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow. Yeah, there's this.

[Casey O'Brien]

And he has emotion.

[Millie Decherico]

There's this painting of him where his bicep is so big that's ripping out of his shirt sleeve.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's very strong. He's a cyborg. Look out. The movie I'm. My film recommendation is another Spike Jones movie and it's a short film. It's like 30 minutes. I mentioned it already, but it's called I'm here from 2010. And this is actually like an absolute vodka sponsored short film, weirdly, but it's about a robot and he's voiced by Andrew Garfield. And it's like a robot who lives in Los Angeles. And in this world there are like robots and humans living together and. And the robots are like a second class, you know, second class citizens. But it's about a romance between two robots. And it's very. I mean, it is like peak 2010 hipster stylings. And if that kind of visual or that kind of like, I don't know, style is upsetting to you, maybe stay away from this one. But I thought it was really great at the time when it came out. And you can just find that online.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, interesting. Okay, good wreck. Good wreck there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you, Millie. That's our show. We done did it. We done did it.

[Millie Decherico]

What a philosophical show.

[Casey O'Brien]

What a philosophical show. Were we the ones to have this philosophical discussion? I don't know. Am I the one smart enough to have this conversation? I don't know, but we host a podcast and we did our best. I think. I thought it was really nice, a really nice comment. But if you want to write into the show, if you want film advice, if you have a gripe, grope or gret, if you. Yeah. Have anything, leave a write in to us@DearMoviesExactlyRightMedia. You can also leave us a Voicemail. We're still waiting on those voicemails from people telling us their date stories. Record yourself on your phone and email it to DearMoviesExactlyRateMedia.com.

[Millie Decherico]

that's awesome. I was just thinking I might have a story. But I'm not telling you my story if no one's telling me theirs. What the.

[Casey O'Brien]

I gotta think if I have any. Oh, boy. Yep. Here's some data art. Thank you.

[Millie Decherico]

You're welcome. So listen, social media. We have it. Please follow us. Dear movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Facebook. Interesting Follows there. I think you should get on there. If you still have Facebook. Just be a friend of the show. Gives a shit. It's. Yeah, it's better than filling your algorithm with all this other crap. Our letterboxd handles are at Casey Lee o' Brien and at M De Jericho. And listen to us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast. Wherever you get podcasts, so many places. Rate and review the show. Please be nice. Please comment on our Facebook posts. You can slide into our dms. I read them.

[Casey O'Brien]

Slide in.

[Millie Decherico]

I read them. By the way, if you want to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Come on. I'll read them.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. That's how I know that all y' all thought Casey was hot and is acting real. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's great.

[Millie Decherico]

All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great to hear.

[Millie Decherico]

What about next week?

[Casey O'Brien]

This is the kind of feedback we need. Next week. Think we're talking about the Oscars. It's an Oscars episode.

[Millie Decherico]

Very exciting. Are you gonna wear a bow tie?

[Casey O'Brien]

Should I? I have one. Okay, I will.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, I'll. I'll figure something out.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Very good. Well, Millie, thank you for a great episode. This is a really rich conversation. I really liked talking to you about this movie. I'm glad we did it.

[Millie Decherico]

Now I'm gonna go snuggle up with my AI boyfriend and watch tv.

[Casey O'Brien]

So that's great. I'm gonna go eat some Taco Bell.

[Millie Decherico]

Bye.

[Casey O'Brien]

Bye.

[Millie Decherico]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted by me, Millie de Cherico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie Decherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer, and Millie Di. We love you.

[Millie Decherico]

Goodbye. Be kind.

[Casey O'Brien]

Foreign.

[Matt Rogers]

This is Matt Rogers from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Bowen Yang]

This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang.

[Matt Rogers]

Hey, so what if you could boost the WI fi to one of your devices when you need it most?

[Bowen Yang]

Because Xfinity WI fi can. And what if your WI fi could fix itself before there's even really a problem? Xfinity is so reliable. It does that, too.

[Matt Rogers]

What if your WI fi had parental incident instincts? Xfinity WI fi is part nanny, part ninja, protecting your kids while they're online.

[Bowen Yang]

And finally, what if your WI fi was, like, the smartest WI fi?

[Matt Rogers]

Yeah, it's WI fi that is so smart, it makes everything work better together.

[Bowen Yang]

Bottom line, Xfinity is smart and reliable. You deserve the peace of mind of having WI fi that's got your back.

[Matt Rogers]

Xfinity. Imagine that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wasn't that delicious? So good.

[Millie Decherico]

Your bill, ladies. I got it. No, I got it. Seriously, I insist. I insisted first. Don't be silly. You don't be silly. People with The Wells Fargo ActiveCash credit card prefer to pay because they earn unlimited 2% cash rewards on purchases. Okay. Rock, paper, scissors for it. Rock, paper, scissors.

[AI Casey (CK)]

Shoot.

[Millie Decherico]

No. The Wells Fargo Active cash credit card.

[Casey O'Brien]

Visit wells fargo.com ActiveCash terms apply

[Cindy Crawford]

at CVS. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we. We believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.