Barry Jenkins & Medicine for Melancholy (2008)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You: Episode Summary

Episode: Barry Jenkins & Medicine for Melancholy (2008)
Hosts: Millie De Chirico and Casey O'Brien
Release Date: May 6, 2025

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1. Introduction

Millie De Chirico and Casey O'Brien kick off the episode by sharing personal updates before delving into their main discussion about Barry Jenkins' debut film, Medicine for Melancholy. They set the stage for an engaging conversation that intertwines personal narratives with in-depth film analysis.

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2. Personal News and Celebrations

• Millie’s Graduation:
  • Timestamp: [01:34]
    Millie shares the exciting news of finally graduating from her master's program after an 11-year journey, highlighting the challenges and perseverance it took to complete her degree.

  Millie De Chirico: "I just, like, bit down and bit down. Finish it hard. I feel accomplished."

---

3. Deep Dive into Medicine for Melancholy

• Film Overview:

  • Timestamp: [27:03]
    Casey provides a synopsis of Medicine for Melancholy, describing it as a mumblecore film set in San Francisco that explores the complex relationship between Micah (Wyatt Cenac) and Joe (Tracy Higgins) after a one-night stand. The film navigates themes of romance, racial politics, and the changing indie scene in 2008 San Francisco.

• Indie Culture and Racial Politics:

  • Timestamp: [36:42]
    Millie discusses how the film interrogates the dominance of white culture within the indie scene, questioning why black individuals often find themselves interacting predominantly with white people in these spaces.

  Millie De Chirico: "How come being indie, quote unquote, being a hipster, quote unquote, means that we have to, like white things, right?"

• French New Wave Influences:

  • Timestamp: [39:36]
    The hosts draw parallels between Medicine for Melancholy and French New Wave cinema, noting similarities in character development and narrative style. Millie likens the cadence and character ambiguity in the film to classics like Jean-Luc Godard's Breathless.

  Millie De Chirico: "The cadence of the film feels very French New Wave."

• Barry Jenkins as an Underrated Director:

  • Timestamp: [50:45]
    Both hosts commend Barry Jenkins for his poetic and evocative filmmaking style, comparing him to Wong Kar Wai and expressing a desire for more frequent releases from him.

  Casey O'Brien: "I think Barry Jenkins is a true poet with his films."

• Impact and Reception:

  • Timestamp: [43:35]
    They reflect on the film's underrated status and its relevance in contemporary discussions about race and culture within the indie film landscape.

  Millie De Chirico: "I just, I feel like it's a lot better than I initially thought it was."

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4. Film Diary

• Millie’s Goodbye the Many Lives of Q Lazarus:

  • Timestamp: [11:54]
    Millie recounts attending a Q&A with the director Eva Fuentes for the documentary Goodbye the Many Lives of Q Lazarus. She delves into the film's exploration of Q Lazarus’ elusive music career and personal struggles, highlighting themes of unrecognized artistry and the challenges faced by black women in rock and roll.

  Millie De Chirico: "It's about someone making art, but having no distribution. No rights, no distribution deals, no copyright."

• Casey’s Viewing of Black Narcissus:

  • Timestamp: [17:26]
    Casey shares his admiration for the 1947 film Black Narcissus, emphasizing its haunting atmosphere and powerful performances, particularly highlighting Kathleen Byron's portrayal of Sister Ruth.

  Casey O'Brien: "It's a cinematic experience."

• Additional Films Discussed:

  • Millie praises If Beale Street Could Talk, expressing her emotional response to its tender portrayal of black love and Regina King’s outstanding performance.
  • Casey recommends Chan is Missing (1982) by Wayne Wang, praising its insightful depiction of the changing dynamics in San Francisco’s Chinese community.

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5. Film Advice Segment

• Listener Question:

  • Timestamp: [60:43]
    Question: If you were stuck in a movie world for a week, which movie world would you want to be stuck in and why?

  Millie’s Response:
  Millie expresses a desire to experience various movie worlds, from the whimsical settings of Amélie to the gritty environments of The Terminator and the charm of Steel Magnolias. She emphasizes her fascination with the ambiance, costumes, and unique atmospheres of different films.

  Millie De Chirico: "The vibe, the world, the plate, the time and place, the costumes, everything."

  Casey’s Response:
  Casey shares his wish to visit iconic movie locations like Eve’s Lounge from Choose Me and the Exotica Club from Exotica. He highlights his interest in thematic settings and the immersive environments that these films create.

  Casey O'Brien: "I want to hang out there. I want to be a regular."

• Other Listener Gripe:
  A listener complains about couples making out in front rows during movies, specifically citing an experience during The Dark Crystal. Millie and Casey humorously debate the appropriateness of public displays of affection in theaters, referencing scenes from Demons by Dario Argento.

---

6. Employees' Picks

• Millie’s Recommendation:

  • Title: If Beale Street Could Talk
    Millie recommends this film for its emotional depth, stunning performances, and portrayal of black love. She praises Regina King and Brian Tyree Henry for their standout roles.

  Millie De Chirico: "It's so tender and beautiful."

• Casey’s Recommendation:

  • Title: Chan is Missing (1982)
    Casey advocates for this low-budget film by Wayne Wang, lauding its exploration of San Francisco’s Asian community and its blend of humor and insightful social commentary.

  Casey O'Brien: "It's a funny film and it's just great."

---

7. Conclusion and Upcoming Topics

Millie and Casey wrap up the episode by teasing their next topic: the portrayal of smoking in movies. They express enthusiasm for exploring this subject and encourage listeners to engage with their content through social media and voicemails.

Millie De Chirico: "I can't wait to talk about this topic because we have a fascination with cigarette smoking in the movies."

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Millie on Her Graduation:
  [01:56] Millie De Chirico: "I just, like, bit down and bit down. Finish it hard. I feel accomplished."

• Casey on Medicine for Melancholy Synopsis:
  [27:03] Casey O'Brien: "Micah and Joe wake up together in a stranger's bed... filled with conversations about the changing face of San Francisco."

• Millie on Racial Implications in Indie Culture:
  [36:42] Millie De Chirico: "How come being indie, quote unquote, being a hipster, quote unquote, means that we have to, like white things, right?"

• Casey on Barry Jenkins’ Filmmaking:
  [50:45] Casey O'Brien: "I think Barry Jenkins is a true poet with his films."

• Millie on Goodbye the Many Lives of Q Lazarus:
  [11:54] Millie De Chirico: "It's about someone making art, but having no distribution. No rights, no distribution deals, no copyright."

• Millie on If Beale Street Could Talk:
  [71:39] Millie De Chirico: "It's so tender and beautiful."

---

This episode offers a rich blend of personal anecdotes, thoughtful film analysis, and candid discussions about the intersection of race and indie culture in cinema. Millie and Casey provide listeners with both intellectual and emotional insights, making it a compelling listen for film enthusiasts.

Transcript

[Millie Decherico]

This is exactly right.

[Casey O'Brien]

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[Unknown]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies?

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report. At homes.com we do whatever it takes to get you the in depth info on local schools you won't find anywhere else. Things like student teacher ratio, test scores and school programs. And sometimes that requires attending school recitals. So many recitals. That's my son. Isn't he terrific? Yeah, a real prodigy. Homes.com Bing Dong. We've done your homework.

[Millie Decherico]

Hey Casey. How's it going?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie? It's going well.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

How are you?

[Millie Decherico]

I have really good news actually. Please, we need it tomorrow, which is technically May 7th.

[Casey O'Brien]

Uh huh.

[Millie Decherico]

I am finally, finally graduating from my master's program.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh my God. How does that feel? Does it. Do you feel unburdened?

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, I. It has been. I don't know if you know this, but I started this program in. I started this program in 2014. That's 11 years ago. Like literally 11 years ago. Almost like. Yeah, maybe to the month at least. It's been like these master's programs are supposed to only take like two years, right? Like it's supposed to be a two year program. It took me 11 years.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, you can't. You. I hope you don't feel any, you know, pain about that because you've had a lot of stuff going on.

[Millie Decherico]

A huge part of it is that I made the decision to like, I guess like informally leave the program in 2016 because I moved to LA.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So I told myself, okay, well, I'm gonna have to like put this on hold for a while and then come back to it later. And that's exactly what I did. I mean there was, it was up in the air Whether or not it actually finish. And then I felt like when I got laid off at TCM, which was the end of 22, I was like, well, now I got no excuse. I gotta finish this shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And I had gone so far in the program that I'm like, why not? So, absolutely. I just, like, bit down and bit down. Finish it hard. I am. I mean, I feel accomplished. I just, you know, it's just that, like, goal. You know, like, degrees are like, goals, right? Like, these, like, markers of achievement, which I feel like I don't have. Like, what are some markers of achievement beyond, like. And I'm not talking about, like, marriage and children. Like, those are not achievements. Okay. Those are, like, life things.

[Casey O'Brien]

But, you know, like, any old idiot can do those things.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, it was like, as an adult, like, what can you do to, like. I mean, what are you gonna do, like, climb Mount Everest or hike?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's a kidney stone. That's a kidney stone.

[Millie Decherico]

Shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Start a dad rock group with your, like, buddy. Yeah. There's not much, you know, in that.

[Millie Decherico]

Very formalized way that I don't know if you can see in the background. It's like my cap and gown.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh.

[Millie Decherico]

I was like, damn. I have to actually wear a thing. It's like a real thing to graduate.

[Casey O'Brien]

How exciting. Well, I'm thrilled for you, Millie. I know this has been something you've been working on for a long time. It's kind of exciting because it kind of opens up. Not to look totally to the future, but now you can be like, now, what's my next thing I'm gonna accomplish? What's the next project I'm gonna tackle? You know?

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I know. I feel like I need to start a dad rock band or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

There you go. That's an idea. Well, Millie, we're thrilled for you. And I'm also thrilled for this episode that we have ahead of us.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. We are gonna talk about the director, Barry Jenkins. The wonderful Barry Jenkins.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Underrated.

[Millie Decherico]

Underrated. I feel, too. And maybe that's gonna be a big part of what we're gonna talk about tonight.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think so. Yep.

[Millie Decherico]

But I wanted to talk about. I wanted to kind of focus in on his first film, which was made in 2008. It's called medicine for Melancholy. Because, I mean, listen, folks, I might get a little deep. I'm just throwing it out there, but I feel like that movie is about cinephile culture. And we'll talk about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh. Yes. Be warned, Depth might be happening in this episode. And also we're going to dive into our mailbag and answer some film advice. Very excited. We've took an episode off, so now we're back at it and we're excited to answer all the things that you've written into us about. So look forward to that as well.

[Millie Decherico]

You were jonesing for. I mean, you were like, in the corner, shaking on a bare mattress, wanting to give film advice.

[Casey O'Brien]

I wanted to. Yeah, I had a. I was jonesing for it, man. Yeah, Just thrilling. So much happening this episode.

[Millie Decherico]

So stay tuned. We'll be here. We hope you'll be there. This is Dear Movies, I love you. Dear Movies, I love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no? Check the box below.

[Millie Decherico]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of Dear Movies. I love you. This is the podcast for people who are obsessed with movies to the point where they feel like their heart would just stop beating if they weren't around.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right.

[Millie Decherico]

My name is Millie Decherico.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm Casey O'Brien.

[Millie Decherico]

And yeah, this episode's gonna be a lot of fun. It's gonna be very thought provoking. Maybe. I don't know. We'll see what happens. I think it's just gonna be a riff. A riff fest.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think it's going to be something. I hope things are provoked from this episode. Millie, I have some very minor news.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

I said on a previous episode that my Wong Kar Wai box set, my blu ray 2046 didn't work. Emailed Criterion. They're replacing the whole set. See, can you believe.

[Millie Decherico]

I actually can believe because I feel like somebody else that I knew that happened to them too.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I bought this, like, three years ago.

[Millie Decherico]

That's what I'm talking about, though. It's like the. Listen, no shade to Criterion, of course, but, like, there I felt like there was this rumor, this, like, thing that happened where, like, the first batches of the Wong Kar Wai box set that came out were, like, ng no good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I had heard people were like, oh, Wong Kar Wai made some adjustments to the movies and now they suck. Like, they were like, recolor graded. And like, one of the movies has a different aspect RA ratio than when it was released. So it's a little bit like, you know, Steven Spielberg removing the rifles in ET and replacing them with walkie talkies. That's what, you know, people were saying anyway, but I didn't really notice that. I thought it looked great, but it just didn't fucking work. So I.

[Millie Decherico]

Maybe it's both. I don't know. Or maybe I completely made it up.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that's good though, because, yeah, I'm thrilled. You know, it's like so few good things happened to me in my life and this was just one of them, you know, so.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, let me. Let me ask you, now that you're throwing out this damn minutia, as you call it, although I think that's actually a pretty big deal. Have you heard or read or seen reviews of Bradley Cooper's new cheesesteak restaurant?

[Casey O'Brien]

What? No, you didn't tell me we were doing a Bradley News segment. Oh my God. Wait, I got to look this up.

[Millie Decherico]

Look it up now. I don't know much about it. I just was. I think it was in the New Yorker or something like that, but basically they were like, Bradley Cooper co owns a sandwich place. The cheesesteaks are phenomenal. And that's all I've heard.

[Casey O'Brien]

It looks good.

[Millie Decherico]

Don't you think so?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, but I mean, is this one of those things though? It's like, I feel like a Philly cheesesteak is like a food of the people. Is this like the elevated Philly cheesesteak? It sort of seems like that. But it looks good, man. It looks good.

[Millie Decherico]

The bread looks damn crusty, which I love. I love crusty bread.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's 18 bucks for a cheat. NYC. A cheesesteak? I don't know that.

[Millie Decherico]

Bradley, if this is okay. If you look up Bradley Cooper cheesesteak folks, you will probably go to Helen Rosner article in the New Yorker where there's a giant splash photograph of this cheesesteak. Now if this is the size of the $18 cheesesteak. Fuck.

[Casey O'Brien]

Got us like six inches.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay? A six inch cheesesteak is not 18 bucks. No planet is that allowed.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, Millie, this is where we really need our listeners to help us. Because if there's any listeners that are gonna go to the cheese, please, somebody out there go to the Bradley Cooper's Philly cheesesteak spot in New York, I don't know where it is. And record a voice memo with your review. We will play it on the show. Please, we need to know what the sandwich. What is going on with this sandwich?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, because if you scroll further down the article, there is a 12 inch. Okay, but it, it's not. It says this is the sandwich that's the, the inspiration for the one that's being served at the Bradley Coops cheesesteak bonanza. Like it's not even. I gotta tell you, I. I'M I'm real fired up about this 6 inch, $18 cheesesteak.

[Casey O'Brien]

We need to get to the bottom of this, people. Millie, thank you for bringing Bradley Cooper News. I didn't even know. I didn't know I was in for such a treat on this. This episode.

[Millie Decherico]

I feel like if his name just, like, pops up in the. In the ether.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

As a news item, like, rest assure that one of us will pick up on it and talk about it. I just feel like it's, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I need to set my Google alerts to Bradley Cooper so I can stay up to date.

[Millie Decherico]

I need to find out how to set a Google alert, and then I will set it. Yes. Anyway.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fabulous. Thank you, Millie, for bringing that to our attention. Well, we start every episode the same way. We open up the film diary and we talk about the movies. We dust it off. We talk about the movies that we saw in the past week. I have some interesting ones, I think. But, Millie, I'd love to hear what you've been watching.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. So if you must remove the films that I've watched for this podcast for research. I only really watched one, but I will say it was an elevated experience because I actually did the Q and A with the director at the Plaza Theater in Atlanta, and it was the director of a documentary called Goodbye the Many Lives of Q Lazarus.

[Casey O'Brien]

Amazing.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

How's the doc? I'm so intrigued because Q Lazarus is kind of a mysterious figure. For those who don't know Q Lazarus, they wrote the song Goodbye Horses, which is famously featured in Silence of the Lambs. But they were sort of a mysterious musician, were they not?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. So this is. This documentary, Will. It was such a ride. Now, it was directed by a Mexican woman originally from Mexico City. Her name is Eva Fuentes, and she's lovely. She lives in New York now. She's. She's worked on. She worked on Narcos. Like, she's a. She was a writer on Narcos. She's done many other documentaries. She's really sweet, really talented. And the craziest thing about this documentary was that she. I think she came to the song Goodbye Horses, much like everybody else did, which is, like, again, through Jonathan Demme. Right. So it was in that huge Buffalo Bill scene in Silence of the Lambs, but it was also actually originally featured in Married to the Mob for the first time. And that song you could only find on the Married to the Mob soundtrack. For years, it was the only place that you could find it. And it's because Q Lazarus essentially Never got a record deal. Like, was never on a label. Was like, kind of self publishing music with her, like, music collaborators. And this was like, essentially the tempo of this documentary was the, you know, the nuts and bolts of it is that Hugh Lazarus grew up in a, like, a gospel singing kind of tradition. Family moved to New York City, befriended a bunch of, like, queer people and other people in kind of the New York club scene was. Was sort of into rock and roll and goth and stuff like that. Made the song Goodbye Horses, then tried to move to Europe to make it with a band. It was basically a black woman doing rock and roll. Like, almost kind of like. It was weird. It was like a mix between, like, synthy, I don't know, almost like shoegaze. But then there was kind of hard rock elements. It was so interesting. Like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's a very unique uni. Unique sound.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, if they came out today, they would fucking be on 4 AD or something. They would be like. They'd have a fucking record deal, no problem. But back in the late 80s, nobody knew what to do with a black woman who was in a rock and roll band, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And so essentially, they didn't get a record deal. Didn't. Nothing happened. Her career fizzled. And then she just kind of disappeared. And it wasn't until essentially, that she met Jonathan Demme in a taxicab. Cause she was driving a cab as her job. And he put her song in. Both Married to the Mob, Silence of the Lambs. And then she was actually in Philadelphia. She did a cameo in a singing scene. I guess the band was playing live as part of the scene. But beyond that, she just vanished, essentially. And she had a lot of personal problems. She got really into drugs. And it was really, really sad. But that's the thing is that over the course of the documentary, it's like you're kind like, Ava basically is embedded with her and her family, and she's like explaining about things that have happened to her. And you're just kind of like, oh, my God. Like, it's kind of a testament to the idea of someone making art. But, like, no, but, like, having no distribution. No. Like, nobody. Like, knowing that they exist in that way. Like, there's no rights, there's no distribution deals, there's no copyright, you know, stuff. I mean. And that was what happened, I think, over the course of the years was that as she went away, her music was kind of, like, out there, but, like, she wasn't getting money for it, you know, anyway. And then, of Course, the ending is very sad because obviously Cute Lazarus passed away semi recently, and that was a big part of the end of the documentary. So, anyway, fantastic. If you want. If you can find it. I know that she's trying to get a streaming deal right now and hopefully somebody will pick it up. But if you're. She's been touring it, essentially, she's going to different cities and playing it. And so if you. If she shows up in your town, you've got to see it. It's really good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Cool. I'll have to check that out. Sounds amazing. I'm very interested in this. I think it's very interesting, the idea of an artist just putting things out there, it not being received and then it being received later, but it's been detached from the artist in a way that they can't get it back. I don't know. That's very fascinating. My diary. Dear Diary, I watched a little movie called Black Narcissus from 1947.

[Millie Decherico]

Pew, pew, pew.

[Casey O'Brien]

Directed by Michael Powell and Emerick Pressburger. I am obsessed with this. This movie is incredible. It's a group of nuns who open a convent in a Himalayan abandoned palace. And it's sort of. It's not haunted, but it's kind of like, sort of haunted. Not by anything specific, but it's just the vibes are off, very off. And one of the nuns, Sister Ruth, gets sort of possessed. Not. Not in any sort of like, l sense, but she becomes, like, sex crazed and insane. And she's played by the wonderful Kathleen Byron. And there's this shot of her emerging from the. The palace now that after she's, like, taken her habit off and have put on makeup and, like, nice clothes, and she looks insane. It's incredible. She looks incredible. And I'm like, she looks like a. She could be a woman from now, the way she's dressed. Yep. And it's incredible. I love this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, it's one of my faves. I don't know if you knew that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't know that.

[Millie Decherico]

Absolutely. 100%. I love Kathleen Byron. Gene Simmons is insane in this movie. Like, it's problematic.

[Casey O'Brien]

I guess it's problematic. She might not have any lines.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

But she's like a sexual temptress.

[Millie Decherico]

She's, like, feral in this. I mean, I just.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's, like, feral. Yeah, it's a. And it looks incredible. I know it was, like, shot in a studio, but I'm like. It feels like they're on the. A mountaintop with these, like, matte paintings. It was incredible. It was a cinematic experience.

[Millie Decherico]

David Farrar.

[Casey O'Brien]

David Farrar.

[Millie Decherico]

Wearing those tiny little booty shorts.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's funny cause they're like, it's freezing up here. And then his character comes in and he has the shortest shorts you've ever seen. And his like shirt is completely unbuttoned and he is not bothered by the cold.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, that's the magic of this movie, is that he's like the thought running around being a big hoe, that hoe over there, making all these women want him and go crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Makes Kathleen Byron go insane.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. And that's the thing, is that the Deborah Carr character she plays kind of like the most level headed one, right? She's the one that's basically like Sister Clara. Yeah. Stop being so horny. But she's, she's even like, not like, basically it's like a spell. Like the whole idea is that this place is this like crazy horny environment where all these chaste nuns are going crazy. And maybe it's the heir, maybe it's the short shorts, maybe it's repression, we don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's Catholicism.

[Millie Decherico]

It's part of one of my favorite, I would call it a nunsploitation movie. I'm just gonna throw it out there. But it's one of my favorite horny nun movies, for sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh yeah, it's great. And you know, yeah, Deborah Kerr, she plays Sister Clauda and she's the most buttoned up for sure. But you think she's not horny too? She is certainly. But she's powerful and strong and can, you know, push away. David Farrar. Farrar. Or however you say his last name, David Farrar. So that was great. Loved watching that movie. And then I watched this movie from 2023, directed, written, directed and starring Melanie Laurent. And it's titled Wing Women and it's a Netflix action movie. And it stars Adele Exarpoulos from Blue is the warmest color you might remember. And Isabel Adjani from Possession Love, all of it. And it feels, it feels like Melanie Laurent was given like a billion dollars to make a move, like an action comedy movie. And she received no notes. And it was like, it's kind of fun, but it sort of feels like, it feels like in the vein of like Ryan Reynolds or the rock movies, where it's like an action, but they're kind of like smirking and making jokes the whole time. And I don't know, and I don't French people. You know, my friend Patrick Mallon and I always used to say this on our old podcast, Farthouse. The French, they've got a real comedy problem. I feel like sometimes I do not understand when they're trying to be funny, and sometimes they're very humorless. And I just. This was not for me. I'm sorry.

[Millie Decherico]

Very, very subtle, the French in their sense of humor.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very subtle. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I have not seen this. Although every woman you mentioned, I'm a fan of.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, me too. I love Melanie Laurent. I love Adele, Exarpelos. I love Isabella, Johnny. But it was just kind of like, of course there's a blooper reel at the end. It just felt like. Of course. And it just felt like. It felt like, let's just have fun with this one. That's, like, what the whole movie felt like. And. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you Google Melanie Laurent right now? Why is her disembodied head the main photo of her? I would have my publicist fucking take that shit down.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you see it?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it looks like one of those signs that gets held up at the fucking Green Bay packers game.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's at celebritycutouts.com.co.uk yeah, that's the number one thing.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very interesting. She's actually directed quite a few movies in France. I feel like she has a lot of power there. But this one. Yeah, not for me.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Sorry. I hate it when it's a stinker.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hate it. I mean, I still had fun. It's still kind of fun. But at one point, I paused the movie in the middle of the movie maybe to go get some popcorn or something. And I. I was like, what needs to happen in the rest of this movie? What's the conflict? I don't even understand what they're trying to overcome. And I was like, halfway through the movie. Have you ever had that when you're watching a movie and you're like, what else needs to happen here? I'm not exactly sure where we are. So that's what it felt like while watching the movie.

[Millie Decherico]

That's how I felt during the last four seasons of Vanderpump Rules.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, where are we? Where are we going?

[Millie Decherico]

What is this?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, boy. All right, that's it. That's all I got for my film diary. Let's close them up, shall we?

[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

Right everybody, this episode is going to be about, like I teased you earlier, the movie Medicine for Melancholy from 2008, which was directed and written by the great Barry Jenkins and we're going to talk about it and we're going to talk about him. Actually, Casey, if you wouldn't mind, would you do the synopsis up front?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'd be very happy to. So, Medicine for melancholy. It's 2008. We are at the height of indie sleaze and indie culture and we're in San Francisco. This is a mumblecore movie. We'll get into that in a little bit. But it is about Micah, played by Wyatt Cenac, who you might know from the Daily show, and Joe, played by Tracy Higgins. They wake up together in a stranger's bed because they were at some party the night before and they had a one night stand and slept over at this party. So they kind of wake up with some confusion. And at first Joe's like. Joe wants to kind of like run away and get away from Micah. And Micah's kind of like, oh, let's get breakfast, blah, blah, blah. After a few awkward missteps, they end up spending a romantic day and night together filled with conversations about the changing face of San Francisco, the racial politics of the indie scene, and fish tanks. Also, Jo has a boyfriend that she lives with and he is out of town. So there's a little bit of, I don't know, tension in that way throughout the entire film. But that is basically medicine for melancholy.

[Millie Decherico]

So I just went into my photo cloud where I store all my photos, and I just typed in 2008 because I wanted to see if I could find a picture of myself from 2008. So this was me in 2008. Can you see that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, wow. I really.

[Millie Decherico]

I was a DJ during indie sleaze. Okay. I've talked about this on my Instagram before. What a time I was. I at the time I didn't realize it was being going to be called indie sleaze.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, this. That's a term that I feel like has only come out in the last couple of years. But it to like describe this era.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. That's kind of though to your exact point is. And this is going to be contentious, I'm going to just throw it out there and I don't care. Kind of feel that's the same thing with the term mumble core. For me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

I am very unclear about the when mumble core, the word was created. What makes something mumblecore it feel to me. I'm gonna be straight up honest with you. It feels like there was a shit ton of movies that I remember watching and then all of a sudden people were saying, okay, this Is mumblecore. And I'm like, no, it's not. It's just independent films.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, like, mumblecore, I think its signature is that it's shot on a lower quality camera. It's very cheap. It's, you know, I think it's called mumblecore because the actors are, a lot of times non professional actors, and they're kind of like, mumbling on camera.

[Millie Decherico]

So.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's sort of. Yeah. And it's very low budget. I feel like it. A lot of times it. It's sort of stories about people just, like, meandering about and. Yeah, but like.

[Millie Decherico]

But I question to you, though. I mean, go ahead. Sorry, just keep.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, no, no, no. Well, I was gonna say the Duplass Brothers kind of got their start in that, but you're right, it is kind of like. Well, it is sort of, I don't know, insulting to those filmmakers to belittle it to like, oh, you're doing your, like, cute little mumblecore thing when it's like, can't this just be independent? Low budget, independent film, you know what?

[Millie Decherico]

Like Stranger Than paradise by Jim Jarmusch.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

That. That. That feels like a mumblecore movie by the terms that you've just ironed out for us. So I'm like, why now? Why are we calling this now a thing? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe that's just my, like, old person kind of gripe for this, but I just was like, mumblecore, it feels like something that is not. Like I don't have any understanding of it, that it happened kind of after I've already, like, processed and distilled film information and that, like, somebody has retroactively gone back and been like, okay, this is mumblecore. I'm like, well, I don't know what that means because I only thought they were independent films. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I mean, like, if Clerks came out during this period, they'd be like, total mumblecore movie. But it comes out 10 years earlier and it's like, it's an independent film.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I think you're right. There aren't really, like. It is sort of after the fact that we're labeling it that. I just sent you a picture from my Facebook of me working at Intelligentsia Coffee in Venice, California. I'm wearing suspenders and a tie. And this is my indie sleaze era. I was a snobby, snobby barista at the height of, like, fancy coffee in Los Angeles.

[Millie Decherico]

Look at. Look at those cheekbones, dog. You were in it, dog. In it, dog. Let me ask you this. Were you going out, like, a lot? Like. Like, what was your life like? Okay, so you're working intelligentsia. You were wearing suspenders and serving muffins to people. But, like, what was your other. Like, were you drinking? Were you smoking? Were you having fun? Oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I was. I. I mean, I kind of related to Medicine for Melancholy because I was sort of bumming around. You know, I was drinking, partying, and going to indie shows and, like, during this time, you know, Coachella, I feel like this is when Coachella got really big and a lot of these music festivals got really big. So I would always go to Sasquatch Music Festival every year and see, like, Arcade Fire, Yaysayer, no Age, Animal Collective, LCD sound system. This type of music was happening at that time. And so I was very. And I was a fan of all that music. Um. And, yeah, I mean, I was kind of doing the Medicine for Melancholy thing.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, well, that's. That makes sense, because that. That, to me, I think, is a big part of this movie. And it's. It's about this kind of. I don't know. I actually think it's like a hipster era. And that word hipster to me, drives me crazy, obviously.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that's what we call. That's what people were called at this time.

[Millie Decherico]

I agree.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hipster. Yeah, that's. That was the predominant term. Like, I would have been deemed a hipster.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, I was.

[Casey O'Brien]

But hipster is a bigger term. That didn't. I don't know. That was, like, skinny jeans, American Apparel, mustaches, fixie bikes, which you see in Melancholy. Medicine for Melancholy, that type of person tattooing a mustache on their finger. That type of stuff was hipster. And that was the term we used, which I feel like they don't use about. They don't use as much to describe that time as they did during the time.

[Millie Decherico]

Sure. Because I'm in these TikTok streets.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me too.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you heard about the Heady Boys?

[Casey O'Brien]

No. Let me look this up.

[Millie Decherico]

Got to look it up. It's basically a resurgence of what we've just talked about. I think it's indie sleaze, hipster ism.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie Decherico]

It's very informed by, like, the libertines.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know what I'm saying? And it's the. And Hedy is H E D I. And I think it's based off of Hedi Slimane, who is the photographer and fashion designer, who. I think he used to work at Dior. I think he's now at East St. Laurent, but he was kind of like. If you. If you Google Hedi Slimane, he's like the epitome of, like, this fashion style. Like, he was the guy that brought, like, the skinny jeans and, like, the tight little suit jackets with the skinny ties and, like, you know, like the Strokes, if you want to remember what the Strokes look like. But I was on TikTok, and I was like, I saw this girl interviewing a guy that literally looked like he walked out of 2008. And he was like. And she was like, what do you think? What do you think about the Hetty Boys? And I was like, what? It's happening. It's happening again.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it's happening again. To quote the giant from Twin Peaks, keep your eyes peeled for that guy, the Heady Boys. I'll keep my eyes peeled, certainly. But I was. I was really, you know, I was hanging out in Silver Lake and Venice in Los Angeles. I was really in that scene, but I didn't feel like a scene at the time. It just felt like going to see popular bands and being a young person.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, but looking back, it's a very specific time, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, okay, so now that we've, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Set this whole thing up, we've set the scene.

[Millie Decherico]

Part of, like, what I think is so deeply interesting about Medicine for Melancholy. Right, is that this is a movie that takes that scene and takes sort of the satellite scenes, which I think would be art, film, whatever, and talks about it in reference to people of color and black people. Right. Part of what I think the question that's being asked in this movie, and this is directly what Wyatt Sinek's character asks, is how come being Indy, quote unquote, being a hipster, quote unquote, means that we have to, like white things, Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And he talks about it in a very, like, specific way. Like, he basically asked the question of this woman, and he's just like. I mean, we have, like, TV on the radio, but, like, how come everything else. How come if we're indie, if we like rock and roll, if we like hipster culture, this kind of stuff, how come we have to date white people? How come we have to have white friends? How come we can't have this experience as black people? We just have to buy into the kind of dominant white culture that's doing all the stuff, Right. Being in all the bands.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's. And it's an interesting question. It's interesting watching this now because at the time, like, we were talking about There was this very defined indie scene.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Where it did feel removed from mainstream culture. It felt like, to the side of that. But it also was a huge movement to call it indie. It's so big, it's almost not indie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, and I feel like we don't have music culture or like indie culture in the same way now than we did in 2008.

[Millie Decherico]

There are still people out there who are the only black person at the heavy metal concert or whatever. It's like it still exists. And I think part of the question of this movie, and I think that's like, kind of a bigger question, obviously, but it's one that is specifically asked again by Wyatt Snack's character to this other woman. Because basically the two of them live in San Francisco. They're riding bicycles. They're going to like, you know, hipster indie rock nights. And, you know, they love, like, foreign films. And, you know, she wears a T shirt in the film that is the name of Barbara Loden. She's wearing a Barbara Loden T shirt. Who we talked about a couple episodes ago. Episodes go. Right. I feel like the two of them have dated white people. And it's. You know, basically it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Her boyfriend is white.

[Millie Decherico]

Her boyfriend is white. And then we find out through her snooping that that white San act just was dating a white woman, that they just broke up because she, like, snooped on his Facebook. By the way, watching old Facebook. Oh, God, Lord.

[Casey O'Brien]

My God.

[Millie Decherico]

Made me sick to my stomach. But anyway, this is the old frame, the pages. But it's. But you're sitting. So you're putting all these things together. And I think it culminates in that conversation where he's just basically like, how come we can't date each other? How come? Because we're indie, quote, unquote, or we're hipsters, quote unquote. We only can date white people, you know?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And that, to me, was, like, really thought provoking because I thought about it also in terms of cinephile culture. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So to me, I know you've said this movie is mumblecore. I feel like this movie is basically a French New wave movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

It totally is now.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know. A French New Wave has now been called mumblecore. I don't know if that's happened. I don't know if the United nations has weighed in on that French mumbling.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

But to me, the cadence of the film feels very French New Wave. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You would expect that a director like Barry Jenkins would obviously be Very well versed in cinema. And he would know French New Wave. It feels like the Tracy Higgins character feels very like John Seberg in Breathless. The whole.

[Casey O'Brien]

Even the haircut.

[Millie Decherico]

The haircut is absolutely spot on, but also her. The thing that really, I guess, cemented it for me is the way that her character Jo is very ambiguous about her feelings, like, the entire movie, in the same way that John Seberg's character is in Breathless, where she's just kind of, like, bopping around, hanging out with this guy who obviously wants her and wants to be with her on a certain level, and she's just kind of, like, following her bliss. She's being very, like, ambiguous about her feelings and what she wants and who she's with. And so. And the way that their romance kind of unfolds over the course of, like, the day or whatever that they spend together is very French New Wave to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally.

[Millie Decherico]

And so, again, I think that is also rolled into this bigger conversation about the implication, the racial implications of, like, Citadel and indie culture, AKA white culture, and, like, how people of color approach those concepts and those worlds. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it is. It's such a big question. I don't even know how to grapple with it, because when he asks, why do we have to, you know, date white people or basically, like, act like white people to be a part of this indie scene in order to. And with the cinephile scene, too, in order to become a part of these larger structures that have been historically dominated by white people because of the oppression of people of color and not allowing people of color to participate, inherently becoming a part of this, you need to interact with white people in a major way.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, and. Yeah. So, I mean, it's. It's a really big question that I don't have an answer to, but it's making my head spin.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. I'm sorry that I've. I've done this and I've opened this. This vault because I think about it a lot, and I have forever. Because again, I think as a woman who, you know, has. Who is a woman of color, but has, you know, immigrant parents and grew up in the Deep south, you know, I've always been, like, weird about my place in, you know, kind of the things that I like. Right. Cause you look around and it's like, you don't even think about it until you actually look around, and you're like, fuck, I'm, like, the only woman of color around. I'm the only woman around normally. Like, I'm only the only Woman around a lot of. In a lot of stuff I like, you know. Yeah, certainly, like cult film and being in those kind of like, like deep, deep hardcore, like, film spaces.

[Casey O'Brien]

So.

[Millie Decherico]

So, like Barry Jenkins, for example, I mean, he's making movies about black love. This is like his entire filmography, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

But it's also that he is a part of, like, a film culture that is primarily white.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And we all are as film people. Like, the film canon is white. And, you know, that's true. That's what we were taught in film school, that you're supposed to revere people like, you know, Jean Luc Godar and Hitchcock and fucking Sergei Eisenstein, like, if you want to go even further back. But it's like, you know, obviously, like, this is the canon that you grew up in. And so you're sitting there being like, well, I want to make a movie about something that's inherent to me as a black person or a person of color. But then the influences from white people and how do I do that? You know, I feel like it's only. I feel like only now do I feel like this is a topic that's being talked about through the art of people of color. Right. Because I think a lot also about Jordan Peele. Right. Jordan Peele's movies are also about blackness within these, like, pockets of, like, white culture. That's not, you know, sometimes it's countercultural. Sometimes it's, you know, like, in the case of. Nope. Like people who are, you know, cowboys, people living in the desert. It's like these spaces that are traditionally white and sort of like how, like how you are in those spaces in the world, you know, like just places that like, black people or other people of color would just, like, have traditionally. Like, we've never seen it, I guess, in a movie in that way. And I feel like that's the way it has been, like, for a long time up until now. I feel like it's like, it's nice that we do have directors like Barry Jenkins and Jordan Peele and, you know, Ryan Coogler and like other people who are, you know, make. I'm saying there's so many others, but it's like there's just so many, like, now different stories that are sort of coming to the surface that it's like, okay, yeah, like, maybe this is like a thought provoking idea of like, who created the canon? Who got invited to the canon. Yeah, there's all these, these. All these people who are learning from the canon. They're not always white and how do you, you know, as a person of color, just make sense of it all? But that's what I love about Medicine for Melancholy, because it takes that and it talks about it in the context of romance. And I just think it's like. To be honest, when I first saw it back in the day, I was kind of like, okay, this is cute. Maybe it is mumblecore, maybe it is like a little indie movie. But I swear after seeing it over many years and now just like thinking about it, I just, I feel like it's a lot better than I initially thought it was. And it's really thought provoking. And of course I had to go back and watch, you know, moonlight, but then I actually just saw if Beale street could talk. First time watch. Fucking destroyed me, dude. Like, destroyed my ass. Like, I was crying within the first maybe four minutes of that movie. It's so tender and beautiful and like, I. I mean, I just could not believe I actually told myself, thank God I didn't see this in the movie theater because I'd be a fucking disaster. Yeah, I was like sobbing in my living room. Like, can you imagine? It was kind of like when I watched Past Lives. I was, I was so distraught that I was sobbing in the movie theater. And like the people that I was with were like, are you okay? And I was just like, it actually went to the bathroom to like, have my own moment because I just couldn't fucking take it. I was so emotional. But anyway.

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[Casey O'Brien]

We do whatever it takes to get you the in depth info on local schools you won't find anywhere else. Things like, like student teacher ratio, test scores in school programs, and sometimes that requires attending school recitals. So many recitals. That's my son. Isn't he terrific? Yeah, a real prodigy. Homes.com we've done your homework. Hi, this is Jevon, your blinds.com design consultant.

[Unknown]

Oh wow, a real person.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep. I'm here to help with everything from selecting the perfect window treatments to. Well, I've got a complicated project. No problem. We make the complex simple. I can even help schedule a professional measuring install.

[Unknown]

I didn't realize you did that.

[Casey O'Brien]

We can also send you samples fast and free. Wow.

[Unknown]

I mean, I always thought I needed.

[Millie Decherico]

A designer to come to my home.

[Unknown]

But scheduling is always a nightmare.

[Casey O'Brien]

Notwithblinds.com, we're on your schedule. And there's no haggling pressure or hidden fees either. Hmm. I just might have to do more. Whatever you need. How about you tell me what you had in mind? Okay then.

[Millie Decherico]

So the first room we're looking at is for guests coming over.

[Unknown]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

It's amazing to me. I feel like Barry Jenkins. I mean, he won best picture. I feel like he should have a new movie every year.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, maybe.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know. I want more Barry Jenkins.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and it's interesting because if you go to his Wikipedia, I mean this is. It's Wikipedia. So do what you may with that, but there's like an entire section that's just called unrealized projects. And it's like a shit ton of things. Like it's, you know, and so maybe, you know, I think that he's such a good director and he's very careful and he doesn't want to make bullshit. Like he's like, you know, very. I think it makes total sense that he would, you know, not make a shit ton of films. Yeah, right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you. You know, it's funny, one little thing about medicine for melancholy. At like near the beginning of the movie, she's like, you stink. Did you shower? And he's like, no, he doesn't shower for a really long time. And I was like. Every scene he was in, I was like, he stinks. I don't know if you had that feeling But I was like, this man needs to take a shower.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, I had a weird feeling about that part. I was like, he rides his fixed gear bike in San Francisco. He probably doesn't shower very often. Let's just get serious. No, however, I really saw it more as sort of a function of her uppity ness, perhaps. Does that make sense? Because there's so many points in the movie where she's just basically like negging him. Essentially.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And, you know, she's. And she. Her world is this like art world where her boyfriend is. She's going to the gallery for her boyfriend and she lives in a nice place and. You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But also he. I feel like he was like, kind of pushy and I was kind of turned off by him, like, sort of like not, not leaving her. I don't know. I was, I was like turned off by him at first. After they start like getting more romantic and because she's like, you need to leave and he doesn't leave. I don't know, maybe he could. Maybe he was picking up that she didn't really want him to leave. But I don't know. I was sort of.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, like, again, I think a lot of it, it feels very breathless to me in that way where it's like, oh, yeah, like, Jean Paul Belmondo's character is just as annoying.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Like he just wants to be around this hot woman and wants to like, lay in bed with her all day, you know, and he's just kind of like following her around type of thing, you know, And I feel like that's kind of the vibe of this in this in the same. I mean, you know, if we're gonna make the comparison that this is a French new wave movie essentially. But like, that's kind of how I felt. And also too, I mean, it's totally possible that you can have a one night stand and not want it to end.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's true.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, and you, like, at first I was like, oh, he's trying to be a nice guy. And he's like, okay, do you want to get breakfast? Like, it's weird. This is awkward. But I think, I think it's just kind of like, I don't know, I kind of like hanging out with her. And. Yeah, I don't know, I think she's weirded out. But I'm going to just try to see if my persistence will change her mind.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was interesting watching this movie now because I was like, this is obviously a time when there was a Lot of young, artistic, hipster people living in San Francisco, doing their hipster things, riding fixie bikes all around the city. But I was like, do these people exist anymore in San Francisco? Like, have they been totally pushed out because of Silicon Valley bros? Are there young people there trying that are, like, in their small little apartments trying to make it that aren't rich, you know, I don't know. It was interesting to see the San Francisco of 2008, when in the movie they're talking about how Silicon Valley is ruining San Francisco, but it seems even worse now. It seems like it's been ruined.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, yeah, and I actually think that there's that conversation that they kind of like, listen in on this community meeting.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mm.

[Millie Decherico]

I thought was so interesting. Have you ever seen that movie the Last Black man in San Francisco?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I have.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, San Francisco is such an interesting town because. And I've been there multiple times. I have really good friends that live there. It's such. It's so different than Atlanta for me because of the wealth that's there and just about. And the historical, like the people that were living there pre Internet, you know, and sort of what the Internet did out to the town, to those people and everybody around it is just. I think it's very unique in America specifically. And I know there's other towns that experience that, like Austin and, you know, wherever, like of a. Kind of like a tech boom, kind of soiling the, you know, counterculturalness of an area type of thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Is there even counterculture there anymore? It sort of feels like. I think it's interesting because I went to college in Los Angeles. That's not San Francisco, obviously, but I know a ton of people who moved to New York after college from la. I don't know a single person. I don't have any friends in San Francisco, which is sort of strange. I have a lot of friends in San Diego, but none in San Francisco. Don't you think that's sort of odd, that just. Don't you think naturally some would have gone there from Los Angeles after college? I don't know, Maybe that means nothing, but I just find that odd.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I mean, yeah, I mean, I think it's extremely expensive. I think people of our station life could never afford to live there. Although one of my really good friends, one of my best friends, in fact, lives there. He also lives in the Tenderloin, just like Wyatt's an ex character does.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you ever seen the movie the Wild Parrots of Telegraph Hill from 2003 documentary?

[Millie Decherico]

No.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's incredible. And it's basically about this guy, this unhoused gentleman who sort of takes care of these feral parrots in Telegraph Hill in San Francisco. And I feel like it's sort of an interesting intersection of counterculture and super rich, preppy people. And this one guy lives in kind of the shack of these rich people near Telegraph Hill neighborhood. And it just sort of illustrates the disappearance of a certain San Francisco. But it's a really great and moving documentary. It's fun. The Wild Parrots of Telegraphville from 2003.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I'll definitely check it out. Yeah, it's a fascinating town, but it's like, you know, I don't know. To me, I think that's a big part of the movie also. But I think it's also talked about in the. It's kind of like the way in which the Micah character feels like he has a stake in the town. Like, he.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, it's obviously about two people. One very keyed into the surroundings that they live in their place as a black person in America in San Francisco, and one who isn't, you know, and there's obviously, like. Like, so many things like that. Like. Like, it's like, now when you meet people in your life maybe that, like, have no concept of what's going on politically whatsoever. Don't think about it, don't care. Like, it's just kind of like, I don't know, like. Like, and they just kind of, like, exist, and you're kind of going like, yeah. What the. How is it even possible that you don't even know what the hell's going on? You know, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's interesting for her character, too, because she is, like, yeah, kind of out to lunch when it comes to, like, greater political and racial issues going on in the indie scene. But she's also a part of the indie scene. She is a part of a scene. So there is sort of this. She's dialed in in one way and completely shut off another way. Whereas, like, how any. And I feel like Wyatt's and X character is, like, to be engaged in this indie scene. How can you ignore these issues that are there?

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know?

[Millie Decherico]

Right. Cause, like, our involvement in this scene is politicized naturally, because we're black, you know, so it's interesting. And again, this is stuff. I mean, I think I picked up on it when I first watched it, but I really picked up on it this time, and I just think it's underrated. I feel like this movie is a bit underrated. I definitely think that Barry Jenkins as a director is really underrated. I feel like moonlight is still good. Still really, really good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Amazing, amazing film.

[Millie Decherico]

And it's funny because I feel like a lot of people. I don't know if you feel this about Best Picture winners, but you know how there's just so much attention that gets thrown onto Best Picture winners that you just. After they win or whatever, you're like, okay, put that on the shelf. We don't need to talk about that shit for a long time. And then sometimes you go back and you're like, that movie actually blows. This is a movie that you're like, oh, that won. It. Deserved to win. You should watch it again. It's still just as good as it was when it came out.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So I feel like, you know, I don't say this about all filmmakers, but I feel like Barry Jenkins is a true poet with his films. Like, they, like, they are so moving and elegant. And, I mean, I kind of think of him as like the American Wong Kar Wai in the way that, like, you just kind of fall into this world of these movies, and they're so potent and beautiful. And he's incredible.

[Millie Decherico]

Agreed. Agreed. And he's my age, so I'm very proud of my generation.

[Casey O'Brien]

You gotta catch up, Millie. You need to get a few more. You gotta get a few movies under your belt.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, please. I leave that to the experts. I'll just talk shit about him. How about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure. All right. This is our film advice segment where we answer advice, you know, questions from you guys. We've gotten so many great emails and voicemails, and, Millie, is it okay if I play one for you right now? Voicemail?

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yes, please. Hey, Millie and Casey, this is Emily. I love your show. I'm so glad that you're making it. You both make me laugh every week. And I love hearing you talk about movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

So my question is, I was wondering.

[Millie Decherico]

If you were stuck in a movie world for a week, which movie world would you want to be stuck in and why? For example, I love the movie Amelie, and I would love to get just stuck in that beautiful, wonderful world for a week. So that's mine. I was wondering what yours would be. Thanks for everything. Bye.

[Casey O'Brien]

Emily, a fabulous, fabulous question, Millie. Did anything pop into your head listening to that?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, this is, like, insane, because I want to be in so many different movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, it's like one day I want to be in, I don't know, like the Terminator, and then one day.

[Casey O'Brien]

Be driving in the LA river with Arnold.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And then one day, I want to be in, like, fucking Steel Magnolias or something. I don't know. It's just like, every. Movies are always about the world to me. Like, I just. The vibe, the world, the plate, the time and place, the costumes, everything. I mean, and it's funny because I. We talked about Wong Kar Wai when I was growing up in the late 90s and film. Like, I was in film school and I was getting into Wong Kar Wai, I just wanted to live in a Wong Kar Wai movie. Like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I wanted to, like, live in that shitty, weird apartment that Tony Long lives in, in Chungking Express. That's, like, underneath the staircase or whatever. I was like, I want to work at, you know, Fei Wong's, like, Little Deli or wherever she's working. And it is, like, depending on my mood. Like, one day I want to be in a shitty apartment, the next day I want to be in, like, you know, wherever. Like, a huge mansion with, like. Or, like, in that Royal Tenenbaum's house or, like, you know, whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was thinking about the Royal Tenenbaum's House when they asked this question. Absolutely. I went and visited it one time when I was in New York, and then I looked at it, I was like, all right, there it is. Time to go.

[Millie Decherico]

It's a place to visit.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's an actual house. The exterior, I checked out. I didn't go inside.

[Millie Decherico]

Huh.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

That's not an answer. Sorry. But I just know it changes by the minute. I think that's kind of my.

[Casey O'Brien]

The mood, the weather can affect what movie world you'd want to dive into. Yeah, uh, I. You know what? I was thinking about this question, and I feel like I watch movies sometimes, and I'm like, I wish I had a restaurant like that in my town. Or I wish there was a bar like that that I could go to, you know? And so I was thinking about Alan Rudolph's. Choose Me.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Eve's Lounge. There's a great bar in that movie. And I'm like, I wanna go to Eve's Lounge. I want to hang out there. I want to be a regular.

[Millie Decherico]

You want John Larroquette to, like, serve you a drink?

[Casey O'Brien]

I want John Larroquette to lie to me and serve me a drink. And then I was thinking, I really like the movie Patterson by Jim Jarmusch from 2016. And he goes to a bar every night and kind of has his buddies there. Shade's Bar plays Chess with one of the guys there. I'm like, that seems great. I want to go there. I want to live in that world, you know. And then I was also thinking of the movie Adam egoyen's Exotica from 1994, the Exotica Club. Be cool to go there. Anyways, those are some. I sort of was like restaurant and location specific places I wanted to go to, which world I would go and how I would enter the world of those movies. So that was sort of.

[Millie Decherico]

What about. Would you want to go have a drink at Big Tuna at Wild at Heart? David Lynch's Wild at Heart, Big Tuna. Would you be out in the. Be out in the desert with Willem Dafoe's character, like having a beer.

[Casey O'Brien]

What's Willem Dafoe's character name in that?

[Millie Decherico]

Bobby Peru, baby.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'd be too scared. The desert scares me. That's why that movie scares me. I don't like nothing good happens in the desert.

[Millie Decherico]

Let me tell you right now. When I was in Marfa, Texas, which is one of my favorite places in America. But it is out we out there. It's out there. There was a place that I went to that was, it was like an outdoor kind of bar that had, you know, these like little Christmas lights that were going across the top of the poles and stuff. And it was very Big Tuna, Wild at Heart having a beer with Bobby Peru. I mean it was Bobby Peru. And I was like, oh, I know exactly why scary people drink like this out here. That's real remote.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodness gracious. Even sometimes I wonder to go to. What was that haberdashery place in the Hateful Eight that seemed like a cozy little venue when it wasn't overrun by criminals, you know, you remember that place?

[Millie Decherico]

Uh huh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Something haberdashery. All right, great question, Emily. Thank you so much. I have a film gripe that I'm going to read to you here. Oh boy, oh boy, this is a good one. Okay, okay. Hi, Emily and Casey. Several years ago my sister and I went to our local cinema that has always had a fun lineup of movies. You want to see Die Hard and Gremlins at Christmas time or attend a 90s boy band? Sing along, this is where you go. We were seated at a two top table in the second row right as the lights went dark. A couple sat directly in front of us. They then proceeded to make out for the majority of the movie. Occasionally they would look back at us who were trying desperately to ignore them. But of course we were looking at the screen, which means looking in their direction. It was so bizarre, especially because this couple were in their late 20s, at least. So my gripe is, do not sit in front row of a theater and make out during a movie. And the movie we were watching Jim Henson's the Dark Crystal. Corey, now, what's your stance on fooling around in the movie theater?

[Millie Decherico]

Millie, I only think you should. Okay, first of all, I want to preface by saying I feel like there are people who are deep nerds for the Dark Crystal that they would somehow feel aroused and horny for the. Their nerdy partners during the Dark Crystal. I'm not that person.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fantastical puppet movies, but I.

[Millie Decherico]

But far from, you know, far be it for me to, like, yuck yalls yum. I suppose.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, we're not shaming here.

[Millie Decherico]

Although I do think being horny during animatronics is kind of strange. But whatever. Like I said, I'm not judging. Not judging. I feel like the only time you can, you know, make. Do a little makeout sesh is if you're the only people in the movie theater. If you're watching Nosferatu at 10:30pm on a Sunday night and you're, like, in the second to the last row and there's literally nobody in the movie theater and you want to, like, make out. I was saying make out. Don't. Maybe, like, first bass dead. That's it. Nothing after first space.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, you know, I don't know. I don't think it has to be an empty movie theater, but I do feel like you need to be in the back row. You need to be out of, like, sight lines and not have anywhere near you, you know, I think it's got to be empty.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't like. Like, I feel like making out like that in front of other people at all is weird. Like, I'm just like. I don't know if you're really making out with somebody. You really want to do that, like, even with, like, one or two other people. Plus, if it's like, another couple, then they start processing their own relationship, and it's like, it becomes, like, a thing maybe.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, should we be making out in this theater?

[Millie Decherico]

And maybe we haven't been doing this and that's why we don't like each other. And maybe we should divorce.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a slippery slope. It's a slippery slope. So there's a Lamberto Bava movie from 1985 called Demons. I believe it's produced by Dario Argento or is written by Dario Argento. Have you seen this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I think I have the Blu Ray. It's also on Tubi if you guys want to watch it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. There is a scene where a woman and a man go to a movie theater and the man is blind and the woman is having an affair with a different guy. And they're making out in the theater next to the blind husband. And he's like, what's going on? I can hear moving what's happening here? And that scene is sort of ingrained in my brain. I don't really have a point to bring up that, but I just enjoyed that. That's a common reference for Trisha and I. That scene, that's my life, basically.

[Millie Decherico]

Casey, maybe, huh? Everybody's making out with each other and I'm what's going on? How come?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that is ruthless.

[Millie Decherico]

I forgot about that scene entirely.

[Casey O'Brien]

But.

[Millie Decherico]

So you think I'm just going to reiterate this point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

You think it's okay to make out with someone with other people in the movie theater?

[Casey O'Brien]

I do go in the back row. That's what I think.

[Millie Decherico]

I. I'm gonna say absolutely. It must be just the two. The two of you or three of you. I don't know, whatever. But just everybody in your party. That's. That's. Who's the only people in the theater? That's when you can make out in my.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, well, I think we have a differing of opinion here. But you know, and in terms of the movie the Dark Crystal, again, again, that is sus. I, I'm a little turned off by that.

[Millie Decherico]

Wouldn't be me. Wouldn't be me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Doesn't get me hot and heavy. Fabulous. Well, that was our film advice section. I hope we were helpful to you. If anybody has any questions for us, wants to seek our advice, email us at Dear Movies at exactly right media.com or send in a voicemail. We love voicemail also, really, I really hope people try the Bradley Cooper Philly cheesesteak and send us a voicemail about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Or you can send us a cheesesteak. How about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Or send us a cheesesteak. Even better. All right, moving on to our employees picks, this is our recommendations based on our discussion today. Millie, what do you got?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I'm just going to tell you, this is so boring, but I'm gonna tell people to watch if Beale street could talk.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, it's like boring.

[Millie Decherico]

It's well boring in the context that I just talked about it. But you know, like, I was devastated. As you have just heard, the two people who play the couple in this movie, Kiki Lane and Stephen James, are beautiful. They have a beautiful love for each other in this film. That's so tender and adorable. I'm crying just thinking about it. Brian Tyree Henry is in this movie, who's a fantastic actor, by the way, from Atlanta, if you remember the show. Atlanta.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Regina King. The queen Regina King. I think I have to say, absolutely firing on all cylinders in this movie. And then who I love Coleman.

[Casey O'Brien]

She won an Oscar for that movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, she did. And who I love Colman Domingo. Whom, again, I don't know if we talked about this, it feels like we might have brought it up in an episode about how he met the love of his life on Craigslist. Missed connections.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know if that was. Yeah, maybe that was brought up on this show. I did know that, though.

[Millie Decherico]

You did? Yeah. Okay, maybe we talked about it, maybe we didn't. But that was going on on TikTok about how basically he met his partner on. He's in a Craigslist misconnection.

[Casey O'Brien]

How does that even happen?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, in 2005. This is again, 2005, like 20 years ago. Cause I was like, you know, I used to love those misconnections. Cause I was always like, is somebody writing about me? But I was like, I don't know anybody that's ever met from a misconnection.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, never.

[Millie Decherico]

So the idea that this guy had. It worked for him is fantastic to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fabulous. Fabulous. Okay, so my recommendation. Follow me here. I wanted to do a film about San Francisco that's low budget, that is about the changing face of the city. And one of my favorite movies of all time is a movie called Chan is missing from 1982, directed by Wayne Wang. It was also made. Low budget film. Low budget film. But it is about these two guys who are looking for this guy Chan because one of the guys lent him money to get a taxicab license. And Chan disappears. And basically these two Asian men are wandering around San Francisco much like medicine for melancholy, looking for Chan. And a lot of the movie is just sort of about the Chinese population there, the overall Asian population and their place in the city, and sort of what people think of the Chinese in San Francisco. And it's an incredible film. It's a funny film and it's just great. I love it. It's in black and white. It's one of my favorite movies. And you should all check it out. Chan is missing.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Love, Wayne Wang. He looked so cool in the 80s, by the way. If you ever see old pictures of Wayne Wang, he looks so amazing.

[Casey O'Brien]

If you see even his Wikipedia picture, he looks incredible. He's got these cool glasses. He's got cool hair. He looks amazing. No, he's awesome.

[Millie Decherico]

I think Chan is missing is not a criterion, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I actually don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

I feel like it might be or maybe it was on the channel.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like there's might have been on the channel, but chan is missing. It's so fun and it's great. I love it. And you really get to see San Francisco.

[Millie Decherico]

It's on Blu ray. It's on Blu ray.

[Casey O'Brien]

Great, great. Check out chan is missing. All righty. Well, that's us, Millie. We did it again. We recorded another episode of this show.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, we did. Well, next week we have another great show for you. We are going to talk about my one of my passions passion which is smoking in the movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

I thought you were going to say your passion was because we're talking about le Samurai from 1967 starring Alain Delon and I seem to see a large human sized cutout of Elenda Lon, the star of Le Samire in the background of your zoom.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I. That might be another passion.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, it's definitely a passion. I'm just saying. I actually my double passion, my absolute bone breaking orgasmic experience is Alain Delon smoking. But yes, I do have a cut out a cardboard cutout of him from Rocco and his brothers that I stole from Turner Classic Movies before I got laid off.

[Casey O'Brien]

So no one deserves it more than you.

[Millie Decherico]

No, fuck, no. Fuck that. You think any of those fools deserve that shit? I can't wait to talk about this topic because I feel like you and I have kind of danced around our sort of fascination with cigarette smoking in the movies. So we got to talk about it. Go real hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

Much like a pack of cigarettes. We'll put a warning at the top of the episode that we do not promote smoking but or we would never promote it publicly.

[Millie Decherico]

How about that? Yes, but listen, if you want to email us for any reason. Film advice. If you have a gripe, Write [e-mail] you can also leave a voicemail. So what you do is just record a voicemail on your phone, on your like notes app or whatever, make sure it's under a minute and email it to that address. Dear moviesexactlyrightmedia.com that's right.

[Casey O'Brien]

And please follow us on our socials earmoviesiloveyou on Instagram and Facebook Our individual letterboxd handles are Casey Lee O'Brien and M. De Chirico. And please listen to Dear Movies, I Love youe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie Decherico]

Well Casey, congratulations on another great show.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you. Right back at you Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, see you guys next time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Bye.

[Millie Decherico]

This has been an exactly right production hosted by me, Millie de Chirico and produced by my Co host Casey O'Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogel, our Associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cotner and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie Decherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgarith, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Cherico.

[Millie Decherico]

We love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodbye. Be kind. Rewind behind every successful business is a vision. Bringing it to life takes more than effort. It takes the right financial foundation and support. That's where Chase for Business comes in. With convenient digital tools, helpful resources and personalized guidance, we can help your business forge ahead confidently. Learn [e-mail] business chase for business make more of what's yours the Chase Mobile app is available for select mobile devices.

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

Did you know?

[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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