Bleak Week 2026: Come and See (1985)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Movies, I Love You

Episode: Bleak Week 2026 – "Come and See" (1985)
Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O'Brien
Date: January 13, 2026

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Overview

This episode of Dear Movies, I Love You kicks off the show’s first-ever "Bleak Week," where the hosts confront the most devastatingly sad films to match the doldrums of January. Millie and Casey focus on Elem Klimov’s harrowing anti-war masterpiece, Come and See (1985), grappling with its legacy as one of cinema’s most emotionally grueling experiences. The tone is self-aware, alternating between comic relief (Millie’s imaginary K-pop band antics) and sincere, deeply felt discussion of the film’s power. The episode also includes a “Sad Libs” segment, creating a darkly humorous movie trailer, and concludes with thoughtful companion film recommendations.

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Episode Structure & Key Segments

1. Winter Blues & K-Pop Band Antics (00:34–11:00)

• Hosts’ Mood: January has both hosts in a depressive slump due to post-holiday gloom and dreary weather.
• Millie’s Solution: In a burst of comic escapism, Millie reveals she’s "started a K-pop band" called Infinite T, complete with elaborate lore, a massive lineup (“27 members, which is kind of a middle-sized K-pop group”), rap skills (“I am the main rapper, because I am an excellent rapper.” [03:41]), and fantastical album projects.
• Casey’s Reaction: Playful banter about K-pop industry excess and possible sideline careers during bleak months.

“If you’re feeling a little bit sad, a little bit lonely, maybe you’re inside, they can’t go out to play because it’s raining, they’re snowed in. Start a K-pop band.” – Millie [07:54]

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2. Defining ‘Bleak Week’ (11:01–13:00)

• Concept: Inspired by film programming events, "Bleak Week" involves watching and discussing films universally acknowledged as emotionally punishing.
• Reason: January, the “bleakest month of the year,” felt like the perfect time for this experiment.
• Film Choice: The hosts quickly realize the actual experience of viewing Come and See is far bleaker than they’d anticipated, joking about regretting the premise.

“We both watched it and I think we both regret the decision to make this episode, but here we are and we’re following through.” – Casey [11:47]

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3. Film Diary: Recent Watches (15:50–23:52)

• Millie: The Greatest Night in Pop (2024) – A documentary about the making of “We Are the World.”
  • Comments on the nostalgic power of the song, the logistical feat of gathering its all-star cast, and tidbits such as Waylon Jennings storming out.
• Casey: Witchtrap (1989) – At an underground screening; hilariously bad acting and unintentionally Lynchian tone.

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4. Main Discussion: Come and See (1985)

Film Context & Reception (24:04–31:35)

• Overview: Soviet/Belarusian WWII anti-war film; non-professional actors; protagonist is a teenage boy, Florya, played by Aleksei Kravchenko.
• Notoriety: “Kind of an unwatchable masterpiece.” (Millie [30:44])
• Performance Praise: Kravchenko’s acting is regarded as one of film history’s greatest child performances.
• Personal Connections: Neither host had previously watched the entire film due to its reputation and intensity.

“It’s one of those ‘you gotta strap the fuck in for it’ kind of movies.” – Millie [14:52]
“He physically transforms throughout the course of the movie.” – Casey [25:03]

Plot & Style Breakdown (33:41–58:21)

• Opening: Set in occupied Belarus, 1943. Florya finds a gun and eagerly volunteers for war, against his mother’s desperate wishes.

  • The hosts reflect on the complex allure of military romanticism and the personal relatability via family histories.
  • “My dad joined the Navy because he liked the outfits the best, which I think is really funny.” – Millie [35:33]

• Experience of War:

  • Florya’s initial enthusiasm turns to trauma when his camp is bombed and he returns to find his family gone, eventually realizing their deaths at Nazi hands.
  • Scenes described as "gruelling," particularly the endless bog sequence and the “nightmarish” village massacre.

“This movie is going for the jugular.” – Millie [40:25]

• Directorial Choices:

  • Frequent direct-to-camera stares create intense viewer discomfort.
  • “Every time the characters look directly into the lens, I’m like, they’re looking into my soul.” – Casey [42:35]

• ** Emotional Violence:**

  • The horrors are often implied, not shown via gore, but the emotional brutality is unrelenting.
  • “I just felt at, like there was like a sense of risk watching this movie…” – Casey [31:35]

• Climactic Atrocity:

  • The infamous church burning sequence—hundreds of villagers murdered—is described as the film’s core emotional devastation.

“It’s like a nightmare. […] It’s the bleak cherry on the bleak sundae.” – Millie [58:30]

• Aftermath and Ending:
  • The film ends with an iconic, reverse-montage of Hitler’s life as Florya fires on his portrait.
  • Both hosts discuss the feeling of accomplishment at having finished the film, yet stress its importance and its rarity as a truly effective anti-war statement.

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5. Historical and Political Resonance (52:15–62:21)

• Real-Life Context: The film’s production was long delayed under Soviet censorship, reflecting both the scars and sensitivity around WWII’s impact in Belarus and the USSR.
• Modern Parallels: Hosts draw connections to present-day atrocities, the universality of war-induced trauma, and the dangers of fascist impulses both then and now.
• Filmmaker’s Statement: Klimov’s intention was to “leave evidence of war, and a plea for peace.”

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6. Comic Relief: Sad Libs (62:43–71:40)

• Premise: Hosts create a deliberately “saddest film ever” movie trailer through a Mad Libs-style word game.
• Results: Amusing, absurd concoction featuring a beaver named Miss Piggy, a hero named Tommy Watermelon, and the line “the Daisy that Smells Bravely.”
• Purpose: Lifts the mood after the heaviness of the main discussion.

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7. Employee Picks: Bleak, But Essential Movies (72:03–74:57)

• Millie’s Pick: The Ascent (1977) by Larisa Shepitko – Another World War II-set Belarusian film, offering a thematic companion to Come and See.
• Casey’s Pick: All Quiet on the Western Front (2022) – Cites the similar effectiveness in dispelling any “romanticism” about war.

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Notable Quotes & Timestamp Highlights

• On Bleakness and Humor:
  “This is what we call ‘Bleak Week.’ It’s a chance to really, really just, you know, dive into sadness and misery, just face it head on.” – Millie [11:01]

• On K-pop Distraction:
  “Start a K-pop band. Do it in secret, have a bunch of members, a bunch of concepts ready, and I promise you, your mood will improve.” – Millie [07:54]

• On War Cinema:
  “It’s really hard to make an anti-war war film because it’s so exciting. And there’s usually a victor. And the people you’re following are usually victorious … [but] Come and See really makes me not want to go to war.” – Casey [73:30]

• On Directorial Purpose:
  “I understood that this would be a very brutal film and it was unlikely that people would be able to watch it. I told this to my co-author … he replied: ‘Let them not watch it then. This is something we must leave after us as evidence of war and as a plea for peace.’” (Casey quoting Klimov) [51:37]

• On Endurance:
  “I feel like I accomplished something by finishing it … Sometimes you have to like, go through it, go through the thing and process the difficult art.” – Millie [58:29–60:03]

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Takeaways

• Come and See stands as a milestone in anti-war cinema—its brutal honesty and immersive style making it unforgettable, but not easily rewatchable.
• The hosts use their trademark blend of wit and sincerity to make emotional space for such heavy material, advocating for engaging with “difficult art” while using humor to maintain sanity.
• Contemporary parallels highlight the continued relevance and necessity of such films.
• “Bleak Week” is both a tongue-in-cheek and very real cinematic challenge—one tempered by the healing power of movies, community, and, sometimes, Mad Libs.

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Timestamps for Key Sections

• Opening banter & K-pop segment: 00:34–11:00
• Bleak Week intro & setup: 11:01–13:00
• Film Diary segment: 15:50–23:52
• Main Come and See discussion: 24:04–62:11
  • Plot/Style/Performance: 24:04–47:20
  • The church burning & climax: 47:20–50:03
  • Political/historical context: 52:15–62:11
• Sad Libs segment: 62:43–71:40
• Film recommendations: 72:03–74:57

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For more insights and updates, follow @dearmoviesiloveyou on Instagram and stay tuned for next week's “How Stella Got Her Groove Back.”

Transcript

[Millie de Chirico]

This is exactly right.

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[Millie de Chirico]

Hi, Casey, how are you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, Millie, this is a tough time of year. It's January. The dregs, the dregs. It's, it's cold, it's snowing nonstop. I've had to snow blow like four times this week. Oh, no, it's just, it's. Yeah, it's just a really unpleasant time of year. I don't know. How are you doing? How are you hanging in there?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I feel you. January is always a really hard month. I think for a lot of people, especially me. It feels like you've had your party, you've had your good times and now you're back at home, all your friends went back home and then you're just like, wow, there's nothing to look forward to for months.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I think it's hard in wintry places too. And I'm sure you experience this somewhat in Georgia, but it's like, oh, the winter is like chilly and cold, but there's no celebrations anymore. You know, it's like not for anything anymore. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And you have like one holiday in between now and the spring, but that's really kind of it. And it's a.

[Casey O'Brien]

It sucks.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's a real grind to come back to work and it'd be cold and miserable and dark. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Is there any way, do you have any like things you do to like combat that or is there anything that's like, you know, brightening your days these days?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's funny that you should mention this because I really decided to take the bull by the horns this year. And I decided, you know what, in order to combat this seasonal depression and loneliness and, and darkness, I'm going to start a K pop band.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, you're going to start a K pop band?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I already have. I've already started.

[Casey O'Brien]

Started a K pop band.

[Millie de Chirico]

I soft launched it. And I mean, when I say soft launch, I mean I told pretty much nobody that I'm in a band. And really this is kind of the big reveal.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is a big reveal. So you, since the last time I saw you, you started a K pop band. Wow, you were really aggressive on this. I. Does it have a name? We're called Infinite T. Infinite T?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

E, like infinity, but I mean you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Do the math, smarty pants. E, N, F, I, N, E, T. That's word one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then T, E, E is the second word. Isn't that clever?

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow, that's good, Millie. That's good. And are you in this band? You're dancing and singing?

[Millie de Chirico]

You bet I am.

[Casey O'Brien]

What's your role in the band? Are you the cute one?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I'm the rapper. I'm the rapper. Listen, there's 27 members of Holy in Infinite T. There's 27 members. So there's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which is kind of a middle sized K pop group. Right? That's. That's in the middle.

[Millie de Chirico]

It could be. Some would call it light. 27 members though. So, you know, there's different. There's many rappers, there's many singers, there's many cute ones. But I'm the main rapper. I think you know why? Because I am an excellent rapper.

[Casey O'Brien]

You got those bars.

[Millie de Chirico]

You didn't know that, did you?

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't. I guess I didn't. It hasn't been. It hasn't been a skill that's really showed up on the podcast so far. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, we've already recorded like we have two EPs and then we have a full length that's going to come out next week.

[Casey O'Brien]

Jesus. These are really well oiled machines, these K pop bands, aren't they? They really get out there. Jesus, that's incredible. Congratulations.

[Millie de Chirico]

You're welcome. I mean we have music coming out all the time and it's really good that the whole industry is. Is like shrouded in secrecy because we can do this. We can actually like get the machine going with little to no noise. Like we're just plugging away. So I will send you a copy of our first ep, which is called the Everlasting Romance Colon Deadline.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, Jesus.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think you're really gonna like the songs on that there. It's a mix between like kind of like reggaeton meets trip hop meets edm. So there's a lot of different styles going on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I think you'll appreciate it. But I honestly really do think that the. The most recent EP that we've done, which is called the Perfect Stranger Colon Integrity. This one I think is a little bit more indie rock. It has like rock roots versus like electronic roots. I actually step out from behind the microphone, I play some acoustic guitar, which I think might surprise people.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So you might like that one. Knowing that you're kind of an indie rock guy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. The rapper kind of showing their sensitive side. Kind of like, you remember when Lil Wayne came out and played a guitar? I remember that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, do I? Huge inspiration. I watch. I watch clips of it all the time in my studio. In the stew.

[Casey O'Brien]

What was the name of the first EP again? It was something Deadline.

[Millie de Chirico]

It was called the Everlasting Romance Colon. Deadline.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it's kind of nice. It evokes a lot. I mean, we're kind of.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm going to listen to both of them so well.

[Millie de Chirico]

And so the new album is kind of a concept album. We all are dressed like royalty. I kind of have this, like. Have you ever seen a deck of cards, like the Queen of hearts? Like, I. I kind of have that get up going on. And each one of our members has sort of a take on something royal somewhere. Actually, one of my band members who goes by CVS Pharmacy, that's their name, their band name. My name, by the way, I had to come up with a stage name. My name is De La Noche. So it's De La Noche.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. You speak a little Spanish. I think you know what I'm talking about. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

From the night. From the night, yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

So my bandmate, CVS Pharmacy, and I have kind of constructed this, like, whole backstory. There's a lot of lore in K pop, and, you know, our lore is that we're kind of you royal families, you know, 27 members. It's really possible for, like, one person to have, like, eight wives or something. So it's great. We're having a lot of fun with it. And. And so the name of the. If you want it, I can give you a sneak preview. The name of the new album, I. Oh, really?

[Casey O'Brien]

You can do that here right now? You have permission. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I'd love to hear it.

[Millie de Chirico]

So coming out very soon on all platforms is the new Infinite T album, Beautiful Misery, the Magician.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh. I mean, the title alone just evokes so much. It's tantalizing. Millie. Or should I say Dela on the pot? Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you so much. We'll be doing full press for it, so don't worry. But listen, in terms of your original question, is this helping with my seasonal affective disorder, with my general outlook on life right now? A thousand times, yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great.

[Millie de Chirico]

I would recommend anybody who is feeling a little bit down in the dumps, a little bit sad, a little bit lonely, maybe they're inside. They can't go out to play because it's raining. They're snowed in. Like, whatever your situation is, start a K pop band. Do it in secret, Have a bunch of members, a bunch of concepts ready, and I promise you, your mood will improve.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, do you feel like being in this K pop band has gotten in the way of you moving into your new house at all?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I think you understand. Like, it has. I mean, look at all the boxes around me. I haven't been. I've been at dance practice, sure, 23 and a half hours a day.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, Well, I think it's great that there's so many members of the band, too, because, you know, like, during stage performances, you guys aren't all at the front the whole time. So you can, like, you know, trail off for parts of songs, smoke a cigarette, eat a sandwich or something. Oh, yeah, come back, no one notices.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's great. Sometimes I will. And this is during practice. We haven't done it live yet, so I don't know how it's actually gonna work out. Sometimes, you know, my place in the floor drops and I get taken down to, like, the sub level of the stage, and I fully watch an episode of Friends on this, like, little black and white tv. And then after, you know, it's over, I come back on stage and I just, like, pop right back into the choreo. Didn't miss a beat.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, no one's the wiser.

[Millie de Chirico]

No one's the wiser. In fact, I mean, when you have, like, at least 20 members, if one of you, unfortunately, if one of you dies, you can really slide somebody in there really quickly. It's very easy to replace a member without anyone really knowing, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fabulous.

[Millie de Chirico]

So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. Well, this is a huge breaking news story on our podcast. I can't wait for. You know, I hope you guys come perform at, like, the Mall of America and the Twin Cities. I can see you guys there. Well, this is so exciting.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, as much as I would like to play the Ball of America, I'm looking to play it wherever the Vikings or the Twins play somewhere.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. At. They could play at U.S. bank Stadium, definitely. I think that would. Yeah. Because if there's 27 members, I mean, you're bringing in so many fans, you know, per member, so you need the space for it.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm. I'm really, really hoping that Beautiful Misery stories, Cole and the Magician sells millions, if not trillions of records. And we'll be there. We'll be there.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I mean, this can only Help the podcast.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, it's going to definitely help the podcast. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Great. Well, I'm glad you. I need to figure something else up. I need to figure something out for myself. I don't know if K Pop joining a K pop band is in my future, but, you know, something along those lines, I think I can figure out maybe some community theater or something that would help my, you know, bummer feelings during the winter. But, Millie, we have a. We have a equally depressing show coming up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, we do. So we're gonna tackle a little bit of what has been called in the shithead circles, Bleak Week, which is an event that has happened at movie theaters and film festivals and online and stuff. So it's basically a week of sad as fuck movies, bleak as fuck movies. Movies that are just like, really damn depressing. And it's a chance to really, really just, you know, dive into sadness and misery, just face it head on. And we thought, okay, it's January, arguably the bleakest month of the year. Why not do a fucking Bleak Week on the podcast?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right. And so we're talking about Come and see from 1985. And I think we thought it was kind of funny at first to be like, let's do a Bleak Week episode and pick a really bleak movie. And then we both watched it. And I think we both regret the decision to make this episode, but here we are and we're following through. So we're going to be talking about that movie and then we have something that Millie's arranged. And I'm excited to get into this. You know, you've heard of Mad Libs. Well, we're going to be playing something called Sad Libs, so I can't wait for that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, Sad Libs is going to basically be, you know, our attempt at engineering the saddest movie ever made. Love it. And I'm going to give Casey a prompt. It's going to be just like the Mad Libs that you remember from childhood. But that'll be fun. And I say fun knowing this episode. Fun, fun in quotes is going to be a bummer. And I don't know, but I'm excited to talk about this movie. This is a legendary anti war film, but also a kind of a staple of a Bleak Week. Wouldn't you say so? Absolutely.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've seen, you know, I most famously saw Bleak Week advertised in Los Angeles and I saw that they would do screenings of Come and See pretty frequently. It's kind of one of the main bleak movies out there, so.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, stay Tuned. I promise you it's gonna be a sad one, but hopefully also interesting and compelling. So you're listening to Dear Movies, I love you. Dear Movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no?

[Casey O'Brien]

Check the box below.

[Millie de Chirico]

Alrighty. You are listening to Dear Movies, I love you. This is a podcast for those who are in a relationship with movies. My name is Millie De Chericho.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

And welcome to the Bleak Week. This is our sad episode during the saddest month of the year, January 2026. Yeah, I don't know what else to say beyond that, other than what we thought was gonna be kind of a fun joke has now become very serious. And I remember I.

[Casey O'Brien]

Unpleasant.

[Millie de Chirico]

I texted you this morning and I was like, we're gonna have to talk about this movie today, aren't we?

[Casey O'Brien]

You didn't text me. You sent me a voice memo and you said, I don't want to do this.

[Millie de Chirico]

I escalated it. That's right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. You said, I'm really not looking forward to this and I don't want to do it.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's not that I don't think that people should watch this movie. Obviously, it's a very important film, but God damn, you got to strap the fuck in for it. It is. And I mean, we'll get to it in just a second because I. We both have not seen the complete version of it. Like, we've seen. You've not seen it at all. I've seen the first, like, third. And yeah, we really just kind of ruined the mood for ourselves by taking.

[Casey O'Brien]

And you know what? It's my birthday this Friday.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, Jesus Christ.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, you know, this is just a real, real bummer week for me. Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

What a. What a friend I am to be like, hey, let's watch this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, well, Millie, maybe you watch something a little bit more happy besides this movie in our film diary section. Let's open up the film diary.

[Millie de Chirico]

Try January.

[Casey O'Brien]

I can't get your. Get your 27 band members to help open up the heavy Diary. Millie, what did you watch this week?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, funny you should ask me this, and appropriate, because it is the film diary section. I watched something that we talked about with Alonzo Duralde during our Christmas episode. He had mentioned the documentary that came out in 2024 about the making of We Are the World. And it was called the Greatest Night in Pop. And I watched it on Netflix. Very interesting stuff. First of all, I don't think I can stress this enough that We Are the World was a huge moment for 80s kids. I think I remember when, and I was maybe 6 or 7 when this song came out. I remember it very well. It felt like this almost kind of global events. I mean it was obviously because it was in aid of Africa.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, there was a lot of this going around in the 80s because there was like Hands Across America and there was like Live Aid. There was kind of these like big pop culture moments.

[Millie de Chirico]

So this USA for Africa was the American version of Live Aid.

[Casey O'Brien]

I see.

[Millie de Chirico]

And there was a moment where so Quincy Jones basically orchestrated the whole thing. He was kind of like ringmaster for the entire event. The song. I actually didn't realize this, but the song was kind of co written by Lionel Richie and Michael Jackson, which was interesting to me because I knew that they were involved. I guess I didn't realize how involved Lionel Richie was. So anyway, he was, he was a main talking head in the documentary and he like produced it and everything. So he's very involved. But Quincy Jones actually brought in Bob Geldof, who was the, you know, the kind of ringmaster for Live Aid in to kind of give a little pep talk to everybody. Because here's the thing that was really interesting to me. I didn't realize that they recorded the entire song and of course shot. Shot the whole thing, which subsequently became the music video for it right after the American Music Awards. So basically everybody went to an award show.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, fascinating.

[Millie de Chirico]

All these famous people went to award show. After it was over, they were, you know, picked up in black, you know, suburbans and taken to, you know, A and M studios. And then they spent the entire night recording this song and like until like the early morning. And I was like, damn, that is crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

That is so crazy. I wonder if they thought like this is the only way we can kidnap all of these artists. Cuz they'll be here anyway.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's exactly the plan. And. And Lionel Richie hosted the American Music Award. So it was kind of like they're like, well, we're never going to be able to get all these people in one room unless we do it around this award show. But then I kept thinking, man, if I was like one of these folks, I couldn't. I mean I was like, they're musicians, they probably stay up late anyway. But I was like, there were like Huey Lewis and Paul Simon hanging out until like 6am like rewriting melodies and shit. I'm like, damn, I wouldn't have, I would have gone home. No way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wait, I just need to check something.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay?

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, never mind. I. I would. I saw that it was recorded in January of 1985, and I wanted to see if this episode was coming out on the 40th anniversary of We Are the World because it's been almost exactly 40 years since that. That song was recorded.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting. What do you. I guess I want to ask you at the time when it came out. I mean, you're probably too young at the time to know, but, like, the song kind of sucks itself. And was there any talk of that? Like, do. Were there people that were like, I like this song, or is it just like, this is for charity? It doesn't even matter how good the song is?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, I think that was kind of the. Well, I think it was engineered to be emotional and to be like a power ballad. I don't think that they really had any kind of artistic ideas other than that. I mean, it's. I. I just feel like it was sort of like, I think really they were more stuck on the words of things. Like, they were like, should we. Should we say, you know, brighter or better day? Like, what makes more sense? And there was all like this kind of like, you know, it was kind of like song creation by committee at certain points.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I just feel like the song Do They Know It's Christmas? Feels more like a real song and a song I like. Kind of like, yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

I feel like it's faster.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like, yeah, maybe that's why it's European.

[Millie de Chirico]

So it has, I don't know, like, it just is a bop versus, you know, We Are the World, which feels, frankly, very Michael Jackson esque. I mean, it feels like Heal the World. Do you remember that Michael Jackson song, Heal the World? Yes, I do. It's like one of those things.

[Casey O'Brien]

It feels very Lionel Richie too. I mean, it really does feel like soft rock.

[Millie de Chirico]

There's this part of the documentary I have to talk about, so I had no idea that Waylon Jennings was a part of it. And there's this part where I think it's Stevie Wonder who wants to insert some Swahili words into the song, which. There's this whole section about that where they kind of go back and forth between whether or not they feel like it's useful for them to be speaking in Swahili when really it's Ethiopia they're talking about and that maybe we're speaking to rich people that make donations versus the starving people. So it was like this crazy, like, conversation about, you know, in intent and words and stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And Waylon Jennings is like, I don't speak swi. I'm out of here. And he left. And I was like, godamn, that's.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's wild.

[Millie de Chirico]

So anyway, it's a really good, it's really good if you want to like really drill down into like the fine details of something like this, because it is kind of like a historical event in that there are so many people involved. It happened in one night. They kind of like wrote the whole thing really quickly, got everybody involved. And I don't know, it's just sort of like, especially if you were a kid of the 80s, like it was. It's very, very nostalgic. So glad I watched it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that's great. I got to check that out. It looks, it looks fantastic. I only watched one movie this week. I went to the Trilon Theater for their tape, Freaks Night. So I did not know what movie they were showing when I showed up. And they showed a movie called witch trap from 1989. It's by the director of Night of the Demons, if you've ever seen that classic. And I like that movie. It's like a silly, violent, gross out, like horror movie. And this is, this one is the movie he did right after or a year later. And it was so bad and the acting is so terrible that I saw it with my friend Jake and we were like, the acting is so bad that almost. It almost felt like the director was like, please do an impression of a bad actor. Like, it was just so outrageous and it was almost like Lynchian, like how consistently bad the acting was. And then also it's a haunted house movie and it takes place 90% during the daytime, which felt very strange for some reason. Not scary. So not a great film. But I, I had a good time watching it nonetheless, so. But that's the only movie I watched this week.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, one apiece. Sometimes it does happen that way.

[Casey O'Brien]

So sometimes it'd be like that. So let's close up the diary.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, God. Thank you. Goodbye.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, we're moving on to our main discussion, our bleak discussion of 1985's Come and See. So this is a war film. It's an anti war film. I would argue it's the most effective anti war film I've ever seen. It's a Russian film film. It's also a Belarusian film. And they speak Belarusian and Russian in this. But I could not really tell the difference of when they were speaking one language I see. Or the other. Yeah, this takes place in Belarus.

[Millie de Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

There are no real. A lot of the people in it were non actors. There aren't really any standout actors. This is a Russian film, so I wasn't familiar with anybody who was in it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, the main character is a child.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. He was like, 14 or 15 when.

[Millie de Chirico]

He was in this, and he has been. I mean, a lot of people who have seen this film and have praised this film say, like, he's probably the best child actor to have ever been in a film. I mean, the stuff that he does in this film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is so intense that it's like he kind of feels unparalleled, though, wouldn't you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And they talked about that. The director, Ilim Klimov, was like, I needed to be able to form this child. Like, he needed to not come in with acting experience, sort of, so he could, like, put him in these situations where we're really feeling how this kid is feeling. And he was like. But it was a delicate balance because I didn't want to, like, destroy this child's mind, you know, making this movie. So his performance is unbelievable, and it feels like he physically transforms throughout the. The course of the movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Can we, like, say his name?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, the actor we're talking about, his name is Alexey Kravchenko. Alexey Kravchenko is the actor, and he did go on to act in other things, and I believe he's still acting in Russia now. So. But, yeah, people have cited this as, like, the best child actor performance ever. And it really is unbelievable what he does in this movie. So no famous quotes. Personal connection to me or Millie? Millie, do you have a personal connection to this film? And if so, what is it?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I really don't. I've programmed this film many times on TCM Imports, which is a franchise that. A foreign film franchise that I used to program on Turner Classic Movies. And, yeah, I mean, I saw this was a few years ago, but I started this film on Criterion Channel and started. I watched the first, like, third. I think I got to the part where he meets the girl, or the two they're in the bog together, which we'll get to, and was like, this is too intense for where I'm at right now. And I ended up stopping it, and I never finished it until, you know, we decided to do this episode. And even when I watched it this time, I had to turn it off a few times. Like, I went back to it a few times. One. Oh, my God. This one night, I actually fell asleep while watching it, and it was like I was in a nightmare of, like. I woke up I woke back up and realized I had fallen asleep, and it was just like, gunfire. And I was like, God damn. So I started it the next morning. It's just a lot like. I know people who have seen it in a movie theater and have. Have seen it multiple times in a movie theater, and. And they were like, it is quite an emotional experience. And I can totally see how that's the case because, I mean, I. Yeah, I was just at home and was having a hard time with it. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it is very. It is weirdly dreamy, too. It's kind of like there are periods of real slowness in the movie that kind of lull you, but it's not like a pleasant dreaminess.

[Millie de Chirico]

So. Yeah, I mean, I guess that's kind of my answer. What about you? Do you. You have a.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I hadn't seen this before. And like we said, this is one of those. You know, as a. As a certified shithead. I, of course, knew about this movie. It's been floating around, you know, we. I knew about it. I just never had wanted to see it. And I was very familiar with that still of the main character, Flora, played by Alexei Kravchenko, with the gun against his head and him looking directly into the camera. So I was, like, very familiar with that image, but I just hadn't really, you know, it. It hadn't come around. I just never, never saw it. So, yeah, that's the. That was really the only personal connection I had to it. I remember my friend April Wolf, former host of Switchblade Sisters, former film critic and screenwriter. She was very into this movie, but. And that was how I had first kind of heard about it a few years ago.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and, like, the name Come and See as a title of a film is, like, really, it's very evocative. Even though it's very simple.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's. To me, it's scary.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it is kind of scary. It's like this movie I've actually heard, and I feel like if you go to. If you, like, look it up on Google, it is classified as a horror film. Did you see that?

[Casey O'Brien]

I can see that. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, it feels like a horror film.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. It's not just. And it's not just the idea of it's like, it being the horrors of war and, you know, that kind of. Especially World War II and Nazi Germany. But it's like there are stylistic choices made in the film that make it feel like a horror film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Which we'll talk about.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, it is something. I mean, I would consider it a masterpiece. It is, but it's a tough one and you know, we'll get into some of that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I kind of like. I've used this term before on I saw what you did, but kind of unwatchable masterpieces.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally. Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think the last one. I think the last time I used it was when I talked about Zardoz, which is like. It's kind of like a huge in scope film that is made really well and has stood the test of time on some level, but you just can't sit through it for some reason because of something. Something hardcore about it. It's either it's too dense, like in Zardoz, or if it's just too bleak. I'd say the same thing about Salo. Probably an unwatchable masterpiece too.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Like existing in the world of this movie is so unpleasant physically to watch it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, but, but, but an incredible achievement.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, this movie, I feel like really toes the line of, you know, you watch movies like Sallow or some of these other art house movies where you're like. Or even like Apocalypse now where they like kill the calf, the. The cow in that movie. This movie also sort of toes the line of like, are they doing things that are actually dangerous to the people in this movie? But it never quite get. But it. I just feel like. So I felt at. Like there was like a sense of risk watching this movie from. From that aspect as well. I'm gonna get into the plot here. We're gonna dive in and like the plot. There isn't a ton that like happens necessarily because you're just sort of living in this nightmare for long stretches of time. So we begin, we're in Belarus of the Soviet Union in 1943. The movie starts with our main character, Flora. As we mentioned, he is played by Alexei Kravchenko. He and another little boy are digging through the sand where there's a bunch of dead soldiers buried. Cause they're looking for a gun. Because Flora wants to go to war. He's like excited to go to war. He's like the top of this movie. He is smiling ear to ear the whole time. He is ecstatic and can't wait to go. So he gets. He finds a gun off a dead soldier and he's elated. He goes back to his house in this small village and he gets recruited by, you know, their army, their military to join the war effort. And he's like 14 and his mom is devastated and doesn't want him to go because she's like, we need him here. He's a child. And she has two. There's no other. The dad, I think, is dead. It's kind of unclear where he is, or he's off fighting somewhere. And there's two little girls, his sisters, his baby sisters. They're like four years old, twin sisters. And he's basically abandoning them. But he is like psyched. He is like, can't wait to go.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so he joins this battalion, I guess you could say this, this group to go fight. And they're out in this camp in the woods. And it's fun. It's fun being in the military. And he's like so excited to go fight. Well, they are called to go fight and they tell him to stay behind because he has to give his boots to an older soldier and he needs to stay behind at the camp. And he is so upset, he starts weeping because he wants to go to war so bad. So that's kind of the beginning of the movie here. I feel like this, you know, being an anti war movie, I feel like it does show that it's like people romanticize war and like even these. This kid was like excited to go to war. Did you find that disturbing at the top, how stoked he was to go?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, no, because my, my dad was in the military.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So there are certainly people that I've known who are in that mindset that they like to serve, they like the action, they like the challenge of being in the military and being in a wartime situation. My dad was not like that. In fact, he never saw combat. My dad was an office guy. Basically. He was a strategic planner in the Air Force and started his, his career in the Navy. And he said the reason why he went. Well, besides the fact that he was an immigrant and he wanted to go to college, he said that he joined the Navy because he liked the outfits the best, which I think is really funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I feel like that's as good enough of a reason as any.

[Millie de Chirico]

If you have four branches or five branches, whatever you want to call it, like if you count the National Guard or the, you know, whatever, the Navy probably does have the best outfits. And then the 70s, I mean, a 70s Navy outfit is so cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

The last detail taught us that, by the way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

But, but my. So my dad is never like a gung ho military guy, but there are people that he was around, like his co, His CO workers who are still like, like they, they're retired many, many years and they're just still wearing Their military gear, and they drive a military jeep. I mean, they're. It's. It's kind of a stereotype, but. Yeah, so I can see why. Listen, I will say all this, and this is even from a modern context, I see why people want to join the military. I do. Even though I am anti war and. And have a lot of problems with anything involving war and militaristic actions and this kind of stuff. Like, I see why people join. Yeah. I do think that the beginning of this movie was hard because, like, he was like, I'm ready. And his mother. The scene was like, he's at home, and his mother and his two sisters are, like, bereft. His mother is like, basically, like, you're going to die. I don't know why you would do this.

[Casey O'Brien]

And also she's like, we need you. Like, the Nazis are coming, like, here. You need to be here to, like, help us, not, like, off doing whatever, you know. It's not helpful to leave.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, but that was, like, kind of the beginning. That's like the. One of the first bits of, like, anguish in the film is when he's, like, ready to go. The mom is, like, losing her shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then he. He goes away with the. What do they call them?

[Casey O'Brien]

The partisans.

[Millie de Chirico]

The partisans, yeah. He goes away with the Russian partisans, or the Bello. Russian partisans, I suppose. And. Yeah. And then I guess he was, like, thinking, it's gonna be this great time. Then he's like, well, I gotta give my boots to someone, and they're just leaving me with the old guy. And it cry. It crushes him. That's like the second moment where you're just like, oh, God. Like, I know this is tough already, you know, this movie's tough.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, it reminded me. I don't know if you saw the 2022 version of all Quiet on the Western Front.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you see that movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I've only seen the old version.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I don't know if the old version is similar, but the beginning is, like, these young boys are, like, so excited to go. And that movie, I feel like more than any other one, depicts what it would be like going from natural civilian life, where there are normal rules, to a war zone. How horrifying and jarring and immediate that terror is. And so the beginning of this movie sort of reminded me of that movie where they're, like, so excited. They're talking about, like, how much fun they're gonna have in the war, you know, not really knowing the horrors of what's to Come.

[Millie de Chirico]

So, yeah. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, they're back at the camp. He's sad. He's really crying. But there's also a young nurse named Glasha who's there. And so they're kind of hanging out. She's sort of teasing him that he got left behind. But then their camp gets bombed, absolutely bombed, and they narrowly escape. And, like, it's really. I think this is the moment where he's like, oh, war is scary and bad. And so they. He's like, we'll go back to my village so my mom can cook us some food. Basically, they go back to his house, which I'm like, how long was he away? It felt like two days away from his mom's house.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And they go back and it is deserted. And at first he's like, oh, there's still soup in the oven. It's still warm. And they start eating it. But suddenly they realize because there's, like, a lot of flies buzzing around. They're like, something is off here. The Nazis have been through here. Something's wrong. And so he's like, they must be at this island where, like, the rest of the village must be. So let's go to this island. And as they're running to go to the island, Glasha turns around and she sees piles of dead bodies lined up. But Fliora doesn't really see that. But he can't accept that his mom and his two sisters are likely dead. So he's taking Glasha to this island. But to get there, they have to go through this horrible bog. Now, you had some thoughts about the bog?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it is a very long sequence.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's painfully long, and it's like thick, tarry mud that they're, like, trying to get through.

[Millie de Chirico]

I. This is what I was like. This movie is going for the jugular. There's actually two things. Number one, Glasha. This is really like the. I know it had happened before in the film, but this is when I really noticed that characters are looking directly into the camera. And I was very shook by all of it. Like, I was like. There was a moment where Galasha is looking in the camera. She's like a young blonde girl, and. And, you know, she's not very glamorous because she's in wartime. She's not wearing makeup. I mean, it's just like she's wearing a dress and she looks beautiful, but it's not like a glamour beauty. It's like a very rough around the edges type of beauty. They have this. They're doing this thing where they're both like crying to each other when they first meet and then they both start laughing, which is actually a horror movie thing. It feels like. Or at least it feels horrific because you know that they're traumatized, but then they're sort of like. It's like a hysterical crying to laughing thing. Unnerving. But then she's like looking in the camera and she's kind of just like talking crazily. She's hysterical and it's kind of like she's got kind of this like, weird. Like there were times where I thought, God, she looks kind of evil.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I don't know if that was the intention, but she just looked kind of like unsettling. And I just was like, okay, these characters are gonna look into the camera directly and I'm not gonna be able to handle it for much longer.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, it's interesting because I've seen other movies where, like, characters look directly into the camera and I don't really think much about it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But in this movie, especially Dasha. Wait, what's her name?

[Millie de Chirico]

Glasha.

[Casey O'Brien]

Especially Galasha. When she looked into the camera, I was like, there's a living entity looking directly at me. And it really was affecting. Every time the characters look directly into the lens, I'm like, they're looking into my soul.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Like in a scene that comes up after this, it's bad. Like, I'm just like, this is. This technique is extremely effective. Yeah, it's scaring the. Out of me. But the box sequence is really just hard because you're like, oh my God, there's these two kids and they're completely stuck in this mud. Are they gonna drown in here? They're like fighting for their lives to get out of it. It's like they're in quicksand or something. And I just.

[Casey O'Brien]

And the way they shoot it too is like. It's really close on them, so you can't see where it ends. Yeah. So you're like, oh my God. It keeps go. You should. It keeps going. You're like, how much longer is this?

[Millie de Chirico]

It's horrible. Oh yeah, it's a. It is grueling. I mean, the whole sequence is grueling. And this is around the time where I start to like, want to put the movie on pause and.

[Casey O'Brien]

And you just want to run to K Pop rehearsal. You just want to go to your band rehearsal. Infinite.

[Millie de Chirico]

Infinite Tea. Yeah. No, I definitely called up CVS pharmacy and was like, can we, you know, go out for Ramen Because I cannot handle this movie right now. It's rough, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, it's not gonna get any better. So they get to the island, and Fliora does find out that his mom and his sisters were killed by the Nazis. And it's a bunch of people, kind of from his village, but also just, like, random people are here and there's no food. And so Fliora joins some men, and he's feeling awful at this point because he's like, I abandoned my mom and my sisters. They're dead. They're dead because of me. And he joins some of his. Some guys to go find supplies and food to bring to people on this island. And they build a statue to Hitler that's, like, supposed to be mocking, and they carry it with them while they look for food, which I didn't quite get why they did that, other than, like, wanting to mock Hitler. But, you know, as they're in a war zone, so it's treacherous. You know, two men step on a mine and get blown up, and then they steal a cow. And the guy with Flora gets shot, and so does the cow. And Fliora tries to steal a horse to carry the dead cow to the island. But then the Nazis come, and he has to kind of just blend in with this new village and pretend he's like a villager there and not a partisan, you know, not a military guy, just like a regular villager.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So he ends up kind of joining this village that's getting rounded up by the Nazis. It kind of looked like they killed the cow in the real life. Ah, yeah, this cow. And that was hard. But it's also the one. It's interesting about this movie. There's not that much violence on screen, or it's not like there's not that much graphic violence depicted. You know what I mean? Like, there's not. You don't see people getting shot and killed.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. You're not seeing, like, bullet holes with, like, blood coming out of them and stuff. It's not like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's nothing like that.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's not, like, gnarly in that sense. Like, the blood and gut sense. I think it's emotionally violent.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's. Oh, it's definitely emotionally violent.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. But the cow thing, I always get really tense anytime an animal comes into these movies. And there was a close up of the cow eye that went on a little too long, I have to say.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yeah, but, you know, this part, I was like. It's one of those things where it's like, well, he has to get. He's trying to get food and to bring it back to this island of people. But it's like he's. Now he's just trying to save himself. And you're like, what about these people back there? I don't know. It just. This really felt. And this is like an hour and a half into the movie. I mean, it really is just sort of like this marathon feeling of. It's just like you're never settled, you're always moving. And it felt very warlike. You know, it's just like this ongoing thing that never ends. I mean, how long. How long do you think this movie takes place? Over the course of.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's hard to say, to be honest. I mean, it feels like years. When you, like, scope out of it, when you finally see the whole thing, you're like, did that happen over several years?

[Casey O'Brien]

But it also feels like it could have happened in five days.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it's kind of beguiling that way.

[Casey O'Brien]

This movie, because it's just kind of non stop. Anyways. All right, I'm gonna get into the worst part of the movie. And this was the part where I was like, I don't like this. I don't like watching this. So he gets rounded up with this village, and the Nazis are like, make sure you do your paperwork, bring a toothbrush, because you're going to Germany. We're shipping you off to Germany. But then they just push the entire village, it's like hundreds of people into this empty church. You know, men, women and children. And it's very crowded. I mean, I was afraid for the actors again, because they're, like, crowded and pushed into this space. And then they say if you have no kids, you can leave. Or, like, if you want to leave your kid behind, you can leave. And Fliora doesn't know any of these people and he has no kids. So he is one of the few people to walk out of the church. And then they set the whole church on fire and blow it up with everyone inside. And this whole sequence is so long and so grueling and horrible and just horribly unpleasant. And this is the part where the Nazis grab Fliora and they point a gun to his head. And it's just for a picture, but he is left alive because he's not attached to anything. And he's not. He's just some kid, basically. And so they let him go and. Yeah, this is awful.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, this was extremely hard to watch. Yes, the. I mean, I don't even really know what else to say. About it. It was. It's like a nightmare. It's like a nightmare sequence. And you know, I think this is the part that obviously everybody talks about the most and as being the most effective in terms of the anti war sentiments. But it's. Yeah, it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Again, like, it's. So you have to take a break. I mean, I. Again, like, I paused it and kind of walked away for a while and then came back and it's. You got to do. Do it in small doses if you have to. But it was. It's really hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I don't know, I just am like, I don't know how you would make. Have the stomach to make a film like this, you know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and like, I know that it was. The production of it was really. It was like grueling itself. Right. Because he, the director had like a lot to deal with in terms of the government to make the film. Right. Isn't it? There's a story about how it took like seven years for them to, you know, basically approve of the film to be made or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like they say this at the end, but at the end of the movie they say that 628 Belarusian villages were destroyed along with all of their inhabitants throughout World War II. And you know, more Russians died than anybody else in World War II. Huge numbers of Russians were killed. And I think this director wanted to tell this story because I don't think it's a story that does get told just how much the people of Belarus and Russia were slaughtered during World War II. And this is based off a book by the guy who co wrote the screenplay, Alice Adamovich. And the director said to him, he was like, this is a quote of the director, Zelim Klimov. He said, I understood that this would be a very brutal film and it was unlikely that people would be able to watch it. I told this to my screenplay co author, the writer Alice Adamovich, and he replied, let them not watch it then. This is something we must leave after us as evidence of war and as a plea for peace. And so I can see what sort of drove these guys to make this movie because it is so awful, but it also is instructive and, and meaningful. You know, it means something to make this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, I think from like certainly like an American perspective, like Russians have lived a life that I can't. I can't even comprehend as a stupid American. Does that make sense? Like, it's just like, I don't know if you're a fan of the filmmaker, documentarian Adam Curtis, but he is a British journalist, slash filmmaker. He has, like this amazing access to the BBC archives, and he uses a lot of that footage to make films. And he makes these kind of political polemics. Like these. I don't know, they're kind of like. I don't know if you've ever seen Los Angeles Plays itself by Tom Anderson. It's kind of these, like, first person narrative, like, documentary type of films. And he made one. It was like several parts, I believe seven or eight parts. And it was called Russia 1985-1999, colon trauma zone. And it was from 2022. And it was truly one of. I mean, again, in this way that is. It was so huge in scope. And he edited all of this BBC news footage of Russian stories. And it just went through this whole timeline of this, like, you know, 1985 to 1999 to this kind of compact old time, basically, like, until Putin and I. It's just kind of hard to comprehend what it was like for people living in Russia during that time. And it was like, you're seeing all this kind of bleak journalistic news footage and you're just like, yeah, holy. Like, again, as a dumb American, he's like, you can't even comprehend what's, you know, what life like there is and is like. And I don't know, it just felt so bleak. And I feel like. Like I kept thinking about that Adam Curtis movie the entire time I was watching this movie, because I was just like, it just feels so bleak. And I don't know if it's like, it's just life there, climate wise, you know? I don't know. I used to live in the Russian neighborhood in West Hollywood, and, man, those people are hard. They go so fucking hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, it just feels harsh. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I used to tell these stories about when I was living in West Hollywood because I lived, again, in this primarily Russian neighborhood, and all my neighbors were Russian, and they would, like, they had no problem just getting in your face and yelling at you about stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Jesus.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. Like, I remember this woman, like, slamming her fist into my front door one afternoon. Oh, my God. And she was like. She was probably like in her 60s, and she was like, I keep getting your fucking mail sent to my house. You need to call the post office. I hate your fucking mail. And she hands me this, like, huge stack of, like, letters that got accidentally, like, delivered to her house because I guess we had the same. We had the same apartment number, but she was in the building next door.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was like, well, nice to meet you. Thank you for doing that.

[Casey O'Brien]

But she just was like, Jesus.

[Millie de Chirico]

Immediately in my face, cussing. I mean, it was intense, and I was terrified of them. They all wore tracksuits. They just were like. I don't know. It kind of just was like, I know that they weren't all in the Mafia, but it felt like they were. And they. But they just had a hardness to them, which was scary and also fascinating.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Well, I will say, just about, like, the difficulty of this film and making it. This was Ellen Klimov's last movie, and he didn't die until 2003. But this is what he said about in 2001, why he never made a movie. He said, I lost interest in making movies. Everything that was possible, I felt I had already done. Which is interesting, because I kind of feel like after making this movie, I could see why you'd never want to make a movie ever again.

[Millie de Chirico]

I would definitely not. I would be done.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Well, the end of the movie. So, shockingly Flora, you know, he lives, but he. His original troop that you assumed had gotten blown to pieces, they survived, including this, like, got this commander guy who had you sort of see at the beginning. He survives. And they've rounded up these Nazis that burned down the village. And the main Nazi in charge is kind of like, you know, I'm actually like a grandpa, and I'm not a bad guy, and I really didn't do anything, and I don't like violence, so you should just, can I go home? And they're like, what the fuck? And so obviously they kill all the Nazis. But the movie ends with Fliora coming up to a small boy who's looking at a poster on the ground of Hitler. And Fliora starts shooting this poster. And when he does that, we get a montage of World War II and specifically, like, Hitler. And it's a montage going back in time of Hitler's life, like, going backwards until it goes till he's like a baby and he stops shooting. And then Fiora turns around and joins the battalion and is off to fight in the war. And that's the end of the movie. Any final thoughts, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, it is such a. The ending is actually really memorable.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

In its way, to just sort of like. I don't know, like, it feels. I mean, it is really the bleak cherry on the bleak Sunday. Right. I really don't know what else to say about this. I mean, listen, I feel like I. I accomplished something by finishing it. I Don't know if you felt that way both as a cinema shithead, but also just as a person that, you know, loves films and wants to see them, even though they're challenging and hard to watch. I mean, I talked about this when I logged Salo when I saw it in January. You know, sometimes you have to like, go through it, go through the thing and process the difficult art. And it's a different type of difficult than Salo, for sure. But I mean, although it's still kind of talking about fascism and the ways that fascists treat people, you know, which is happening right now as we speak. But I don't know, it feels this is a very. We're in a very political time where it is. Things are like watching something like this right now is double strength, I think, for me. And I think that's probably why I had to, you know, kind of pace myself through it. Because it's long. It's like two and a half hours long or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I do think that it's not. It's not for the beginner, if you know what I'm saying. I feel like you gotta really strap in, prepare yourself for something hardcore. One you watch. Come and see.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, this is definitely a Black diamond movie, you know, in terms of like ski hill difficulty.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I remember you mentioned this. Black diamond movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yeah, I mean, it's impossible not to make connections to our present day. You know, I was thinking about my. The man I hate maybe most on the planet, Pete Hegseth, who is our Secretary of Defense. But he like had Trump or Trump relabeled his title as Department of War or Secretary of War. And he's just like one of these giddy guys who wants to kill people. And I mean, he could be. He's potentially committed war crimes recently by this swift. I don't know if you're following this news story, but they're allegedly may have told people to kill everybody on this Swift boat that was potentially a drug smuggling boat. But by him saying like kill them all, that's a war crime. And so there are these guys who are giddy about getting into violent situations. And it made me think about the beginning of this movie. It also watching this, I mean, it made me think of all the children of Gaza. The horrors of seeing that on a regular basis, you know, in the news is. It's hard not to make those connections with the present day of what's going on. And also just personally, in the Twin Cities, there is a. There Trump is going after our Somali Population. You know, ice is coming into the Twin Cities. Yeah. You know, snatching people off the street. It's like. It's hard to watch a war. It just doesn't feel as removed.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, watching a movie like this. So anyways, Bleak. It's bleak. But I think it's important to watch movies like this and to learn from them.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And for them there to be statements made about these types of historical events, you know, and how they aren't even historical.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, or they're not in the past. They're happening right now.

[Millie de Chirico]

So, anyways, well, congrats to us for getting through Bleak Week.

[Casey O'Brien]

Bleak Week. Well, I'm excited for our next segment. Sad Libs.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sad Lives. Well, you know, again, we're moving, moving still with the sad films, but at least there's a little bit of humor perhaps, in this section, because we are gonna do. This is the first time I've ever done anything like this on a microphone. But basically, this is Sad Lives World. It's gonna be essentially like. It's gonna be like a trailer voiceover for a new film that's about to come out. And this is gonna be the saddest movie of all time. And then there are certain parts of it that I'm going to need your input on.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm here.

[Millie de Chirico]

And so I'm going to just, like Mad Lib style. I'm just going to give you the thing that I need you to give me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. And then this is great.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm going to plug it in, and then I'm going to read the trailer to you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sound good?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm ready.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, Right off the bat, I need a verb.

[Casey O'Brien]

A verb?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Smush.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. And give me the name of a street that you remember really well from childhood.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'll say Lyndale.

[Millie de Chirico]

L, I, N or L Y, N.

[Casey O'Brien]

L, Y, N, D, A, L, E. Lindale.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, give me the name of a flower that you like.

[Casey O'Brien]

A flower. Daisy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. And give me a. I'm scared by the.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't like. This is. I'm frightened by the compilation of what's going on. Continue.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, I need another verb.

[Casey O'Brien]

Smell.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then I need an adverb, which is basically a verb with an. Well, you know what an adverb is.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'll say bravely.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, I need the name of a woman.

[Casey O'Brien]

Of a woman. Amanda Sey Freed.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just the name. I'm gonna use the first name. I'm gonna say Amanda.

[Casey O'Brien]

Amanda. Okay, Amanda.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then I need your high school mascot, but in the singular, we Were the stars.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it was star.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, I need your current favorite actress.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm afraid of this right now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just go with it.

[Casey O'Brien]

My current favorite actress. I'll say. You know what? Okay, can you change? I want this to be Amanda C Free. And then you change the other name to Jennifer.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, got it. Okay, give me a job or profession.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'll say a barber.

[Millie de Chirico]

Then I need, like, any group of people. Like a collection of people.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hippies.

[Millie de Chirico]

A number seven.

[Casey O'Brien]

I need a noun, A cheeseburger.

[Millie de Chirico]

I need a boy's name.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thomas.

[Millie de Chirico]

I need your favorite flavor of gum. Like what gum do you like to chew?

[Casey O'Brien]

Watermelon.

[Millie de Chirico]

Then I need the name of any job that you wanted when you were a little kid.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's so funny. I'm like, what did I want to be when I was a little kid? I don't even know. I think when I was a little kid, I wanted to be a novelist.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, then tell me a time that you got in trouble. Just like a very brief time, like in your childhood when you got in trouble.

[Casey O'Brien]

I booby trapped my. The door for my room so a book would fall on my mom's head.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is so good. Okay, give me the name of an animal.

[Casey O'Brien]

Beaver.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. And then sort of related. Give me the name of your favorite Muppets character. And don't say animal.

[Casey O'Brien]

Don't say animal. I'll say Miss Piggy.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, give me a funny way of saying oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

A funny way of saying oh, my God.

[Millie de Chirico]

Some way of, like, expressing that. Like, oh, my God. Like a. Something like that. A funny way of saying gadzooks.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that good? Does that make sense?

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, name a style of dance. So, like, you know, like a. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

The twist.

[Millie de Chirico]

Give me your least favorite vegetable.

[Casey O'Brien]

Eggplant.

[Millie de Chirico]

Name a weird instrument.

[Casey O'Brien]

The French horn.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, just a few more.

[Casey O'Brien]

Name of a. I'm enjoying this now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, good. Name of a famous criminal from history.

[Casey O'Brien]

Famous criminal. Why am I, like, having a hard time with this? John Gotti.

[Millie de Chirico]

Give me an adjective.

[Casey O'Brien]

Beautiful.

[Millie de Chirico]

And give me another adjective, ugly. All right, give me a measurement of time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Let's say. Yeah, let's. Let's do years.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's singular. Okay, and then I need for the last one, a verb that describes something negative in the past tense.

[Casey O'Brien]

Annihilated.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. Okay. Are you ready?

[Casey O'Brien]

We've. We've put it together.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm excited and afraid when I try not to laugh. I have always laughed through Mad Libs, so I'm going to try not to do that.

[Casey O'Brien]

This Time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, here we go. This is Casey's Sad Libs trailer. Voiceover for the saddest film ever made, but definitely the saddest film that's about to come out in theaters anytime now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Maybe I'll play some sad music under this.

[Millie de Chirico]

There we go.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it's effective.

[Millie de Chirico]

Here we go. The most anticipated movie of the year from director Smush Lindale. The unrivaled master of dark drama is the Daisy that Smells Bravely. It's a story that feels almost too intimate to watch. The film follows Jennifer Starr, played with raw bone deep honesty by Amanda Seyfried, a barber forced to confront the lie that has shaped and poisoned her hippies for nearly seven decades. Amanda Seyfried delivers the most haunting performance of her career, embodying a cheeseburger. Unraveling thread by thread. Equally gripping is newcomer Thomas Watermelon.

[Casey O'Brien]

His portrayal, Tommy Watermelon.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, I'm not gonna laugh. God damn it. Okay. His portrayal of a novelist broken by. His portrayal of a novelist broken by the night he booby trapped the the door to his room so that a book fell on his bob anchors the film's emotional core. The only friend he has in the world, a beaver named Miss Piggy, has gone missing in the woods, launching a desperate attempt to find him before it's too late. Shot in Dead Zuke's vision, the film's score by composer Twist Eggplant is a haunting mix of the French horn and near silent stretches that make the audience hold their breaths. Come and see the film that famed movie critic John Gotti calls beautiful and ugly and the New York year has described as the most annihilated of the year in theaters now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. I wish I had a beaver friend named Miss Piggy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Tommy Watermelon. I could barely get through that, but I'm glad that that happened.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was good, Millie. I'm impressed you put that all together.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hey, I do do some good around here sometimes.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know what? That brought me out of the bleakness.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, good. That's what I wanted to have.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel so much better now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my goodness. Well, the Daisy that Smells bravely is definitely in theaters now. And yeah, it sounds like a bummer, but we had a good time, so it reminds.

[Casey O'Brien]

That title reminds me of, like, a fake Seinfeld movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

The Flower that Drank the Moon. Isn't that from where some. That's got to be from something. I forgot. Ghost World. All right, well, there we go. There you have it. We're gonna do more Mad Libs. I feel like, if this hits, if people aren't annoyed by doing Mad Libs.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I would love it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Especially if we're down in the dumps. Yes, I think that'd be good. So, Millie, it's time for our first film. Our employees picks film recommendations based on the theme of the discussion. What do you got?

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, so this is actually very much related to. Come and see. I'm recommending a movie called the ascent from 1977. This is a movie that was directed by Ellen Klimov's wife, Larissa Shipitko. It's also about Belarussia In World War II, also about, you know, some partisans. I mean, it's stark as well. I mean, it's. It's like, I'm not gonna lie, this is not. This apple does not fall far from the tree when it comes to this recommendation. But I just felt like it's a good companion to come and see. It actually was made before, so. And, you know, she was probably one of the most famous female Russian directors in history, so I think it's worth a watch. It's on Criterion Collection if you want to see it. And, yeah, that's my wreck this week.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. I mentioned this movie already, but I'm recommending 2022's All Quiet on the Western Front. People didn't. I feel like some people didn't really like this movie. It's on Netflix. But I thought. I was so frightened by the beginning of this movie. Just the joy of these boys going to war and then, like, them realizing that they're all going to be killed was really stark and frightening. And in the movie, you know, they, like, sign up, they get their uniforms and they get in a truck and they drive to war. Like, it's like, down the road, you know, because, like, war is happening in Germany. So that was, like, a really interesting scene to be like, all right, you guys are having fun. Let's. Let's go over to the war now. And then they just, like, you know, get destroyed, and it's got a really good score. And it's another movie because, you know, Roger Ebert talked about how it's really hard to make an anti war war film because it's so exciting. And there's usually a victor, and the people you're following are usually victorious. You know, even a really sad, dark movie like Saving Private Ryan at the end, you're kind of like, all right, cool. You know, but I feel like All Quiet on the Western Front really makes me not want to go to war. And so did Come and see. So that's my wreck. All quiet on the western front from 2022.

[Millie de Chirico]

Good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, Millie, we made it.

[Millie de Chirico]

We made it. We made it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Jesus.

[Millie de Chirico]

In the future, we like to give out film advice. And maybe you write it and you say, don't do Bleak Week again, because that bummed me the fuck out.

[Casey O'Brien]

But if you, you could give us advice too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, give us advice, sure. We might listen to it. We may not. Who knows? But if you need anything though, like a recommendation, if you want to talk about a film gripe, a consensual film grope, a film regret, which is also a film grit in our parlance, please write in. We [e-mail] also you can leave a voice memo. Leave us a voicemail, but you would record it as a voice memo on your phone. That's under a minute. Email it to dearMoviesExactlyRightMedia.com Casey is manning the phones 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So he'll either respond to it or we'll do something on the pod.

[Casey O'Brien]

You will get some answer to your email.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now if I'm responding to it, you know, it's probably a bad, stupid answer because Millie's not there. But you will get a response and that is a guarantee.

[Millie de Chirico]

I guarantee it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just be patient. Yeah. Follow us on our socials at Dear Movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterboxd handles are Cele o' Brien and Mdecherico. Listen to Dear Movies, I Love youe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review our show. It helps. Millie, what are we doing next week?

[Millie de Chirico]

Um, let's see. We're doing something that we're kind of basically calling referential films or like movies that you know, have existed throughout time. That the either the plotline or the name of the film has persisted in our pop culture and has become the name of something. Right? Or like, it's like the name of a thing. A perfect example is the movie that we're gonna be talking about next week, which is How Stella Got her groove back from 1998. And that'll be a first time watch for you, I believe, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's correct. And I think we wanted to watch this movie cause we after Bleak Week, we also need to get our groove back.

[Millie de Chirico]

We need to be in a tropical location with Taye Diggs.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm excited. I'm excited to watch this. Never seen it. Missed it somehow. And yeah, it's gonna be great. It's gonna be the polar opposite of this episode. Happy, tropical, Sexy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Groovy, perhaps.

[Casey O'Brien]

Groovy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, Casey, as always, I had a really good time with you, despite the fact that I'm extremely depressed to the point where I'm gonna have to record another album with my K pop band. But hey, I'll thank you in the liner notes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I would love that. Yeah, you know, it's like these depressing episodes in our lives. You know, we make great art from them. So I hope you guys, you and your 27 member K Pop group make some great albums because of the sadness you experienced watching this movie. That's it. Bye, everybody.

[Millie de Chirico]

Bye. This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie de Chirico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie To Jericho. We love you. Goodbye.