David Cronenberg & The Shrouds (2024)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You | “David Cronenberg & The Shrouds (2024)”

Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O'Brien
Date: August 19, 2025
Episode Theme: A deep dive into David Cronenberg’s legacy and his 2024 film The Shrouds. Millie and Casey explore Cronenberg’s ongoing relevance, discuss how personal grief and technology merge in The Shrouds, and reflect on what makes Cronenberg a singular voice in cinema.

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Episode Overview

This episode celebrates director David Cronenberg—one of cinema’s least “cute” filmmakers—and his latest film, The Shrouds (2024). The hosts use the occasion to unpack Cronenberg’s career-long obsessions, the body horror subgenre, and the emotional themes of aging and grief present in both his life and films. They blend scholarly enthusiasm with irreverent humor, making deep film analysis accessible for movie lovers of every stripe.

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Lighthearted Banter & 90s Nostalgia

Timestamps: 01:36–06:48

• Millie describes her plush “cookie guy” and how it keeps her from banging on the desk while recording, segueing into a discussion of cute Asian pop culture mascots and their adult appeal.
• Casey observes the sharp contrast between this “cute” opening and the discussion to follow: “David Cronenberg is one of the least cute directors out there.” (06:40)

Memorable Quote:
“We are talking today about the director David Cronenberg and his 2024 movie, The Shrouds. I would say David Cronenberg is one of the least cute directors out there.”
—Casey, 06:37

2. Movie Diary: What We’ve Been Watching

Timestamps: 10:35–29:02

• Millie watched the new Naked Gun (2020) in theaters, praising its slapstick energy and nostalgic vibe, especially the comedic turn by Danny Huston.
• Casey finally saw Mystery Men (1999), describing it as “delightful” and creatively stylized, praising its wild production design and cast.
• Brief digression into '90s TV nostalgia, reminiscing about The X-Files and Buffy.

Memorable Moment:
Discussion on the need for silly, broad comedies today:
“Just the stupidest shit… bring back some of the like dumbest things. …I would kill for an Austin Powers or a Wayne’s World 2.”
—Millie, 11:38

3. Main Topic Introduction: Cronenberg & The Shrouds

Timestamps: 31:31–35:32

• The Shrouds may be (but hopefully isn’t) Cronenberg’s final film. Both hosts feel it would be a meaningful capstone because it directly grapples with mortality and artistic legacy.
• Discussion of the surprising presence of Yves Saint Laurent (the fashion house) as a top-billed producer, segueing into the trend of brands entering film production.
• Millie notes the trend: “All these consumer products are now trying to get into movies… maybe Mr. Clean is going to have a couple movies coming out next year.” (34:23)

4. Cronenberg and the Personal Touch

Timestamps: 36:46–42:49

• Both hosts explain their personal connections to Cronenberg’s work.
• Millie discusses her “Videodrome scar”—after real-life surgery, Cronenberg’s fixation on the body took on a new personal resonance.
• Casey describes his fascination with Cronenberg’s blend of technology, the body, and disturbing imagery.

Notable Quote:
“There’s truly no movies like these David Cronenberg films.”
—Casey, 42:09

5. Cronenberg at Beyond Fest: “Sliding Doors” Moment

Timestamps: 42:54–45:24

• Both hosts realize they attended the same day-long Cronenberg marathon at LA’s Egyptian Theatre years ago but didn’t know each other—a “sliding doors” moment of film fandom.

6. The Shrouds: Plot & Themes

Timestamps: 45:50–51:33

• Casey summarizes the labyrinthine plot: Vincent Cassel plays Karsh, inventor of “GraveTech,” a tombstone with live video feeds of decomposing loved ones. His system is hacked and vandalized, leading Karsh into a maze of conspiracy, technology, and grief.
• Both hosts agree the film is deeply personal, inspired by Cronenberg’s own loss of his wife to cancer (50:03).

7. Grief, Technology, and Perverse Mourning

Timestamps: 51:33–63:08

• The hosts unpack how Cronenberg fuses personal mourning with tech critiques and body horror.
• Millie questions whether Karsh is sympathetic or a morally bankrupt “tech bro” obsessed with ownership and boundaries—even after death.
• Casey views Cronenberg’s approach as an “exploration of the insane thoughts you have when you’re grieving… played out for real.”
• They marvel at the perverse notion of wanting to watch a loved one decompose in 8K—and the ways technological mediation both distances and distorts grief.

Key Quote:
“He goes really dark. He’s in his 80s, and he’s dark as fuck. I love that.”
—Casey, 40:08

8. The AI Assistant & Surreal Tech Horrors

Timestamps: 63:10–69:14

• “Honey,” the film’s AI assistant, uses the dead wife’s likeness and voice. The hosts discuss the disturbing blurred lines between digital memory and real presence—the ultimate Cronenbergian nightmare.
• Millie recounts how Honey’s transformation into a demented, twerking AI avatar was viscerally disturbing.
• Both reflect on the comfort and horror of tech extensions of ourselves, referencing Cronenberg’s own quote:

“Technology is not alien… it’s completely human.”

9. Twins, Horniness, and Recurring Cronenberg Themes

Timestamps: 69:30–80:07

• Discussion of Diane Kruger playing both the deceased and living twin—a motif linking The Shrouds to Cronenberg’s Dead Ringers.
• Casey observes recurring Cronenberg motifs: mutilated bodies, “vulva”-like scars, conversations during sex, and the interface of technological and organic horror.
• Both hosts delight in the absurd sudden horniness throughout the film, finding humor in Cronenberg’s dark, adult artistic world.
• They place Cronenberg’s worldview alongside other “white-haired Davids,” notably David Lynch’s fascination with doppelgangers and dream logic.

10. Artistic Legacy and The “Weirdos”

Timestamps: 80:32–83:39

• Millie and Casey reflect on Cronenberg as one of cinema's last true “art-house weirdos.” They lament the dwindling cohort of filmmakers who approach film as personal, challenging art instead of pure proxy for coolness and social standing.

Quote of Note:
“There are so few filmmakers who are artists… to express yourself so intimately and artistically through this medium.”
—Casey, 82:45

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Fun Segment: The Cronenberg Quiz

Timestamps: 83:51–90:32

• Casey challenges Millie to name Cronenberg films based on invented devices, disorders, and institutions (e.g., “Telepod” from The Fly, “Umbicord” from eXistenZ, “Spectacular Optical Corporation” from Videodrome).
• Millie holds her own, earning five out of six answers correct.

Notable Laugh Line

“I thought your head was gonna explode like a scanner.”
—Casey, 90:14

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Staff Picks / Recommendations

Timestamps: 90:49–94:41

• Millie’s Pick: Rabid (1977) — Marilyn Chambers stars in a grindhouse gem featuring a classic Cronenberg body horror orifice (the “armpit orifice”).
• Casey’s Pick: Titane (2021, Julia Ducournau) — A Palme d’Or–winning, Cronenberg-inspired French film about a woman impregnated by a car; celebrated as fresh body horror with its own transgressive vision.

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Favorite Cronenberg Films

Timestamps: 95:26–96:34

• Millie: “The Fly.”
• Casey: “Three-way tie: Dead Ringers, eXistenZ, and Crash. I’ll just say Crash. I love Crash.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “I appreciate that. They’re like thought experiments from hell, basically.”
  —Millie, on Cronenberg’s film concepts (62:19)

• “The horniness of this movie is a huge component. …Am I allowed to be horny again?”
  —Casey, 72:53

• “He kind of has a patina to his films… movies for interesting, slightly dark adults.”
  —Millie, 77:14

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Closing & Next Episode Preview

Timestamps: 96:58–97:54

• Next week: Diving into the “Usher Cinematic Universe” with a focus on She’s All That (1999).
• Reminder to send film questions, regrets, gripes, or groans to [e-mail].

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Summary Takeaway

This episode is a rich, insightful, and irreverent journey through The Shrouds and the larger Cronenberg oeuvre. Millie and Casey highlight the director’s uncanny knack for fusing the clinical and the personal, finding both horror and humor in mortality, technology, and human oddity. By blending thoughtful critique, grounded personal stories, and pop-culture riffs, this episode makes a compelling listen for cinephile nerds, Cronenberg newbies, and anyone in search of weird, artful darkness.

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Episode Timestamps Reference

• 06:37 — “David Cronenberg is one of the least cute directors…”
• 11:38 — “The bomb. We need something like this. Just the stupidest shit…”
• 31:31 — “It’s time for our main discussion… covering my boy David Cronenberg…”
• 40:08 — “He goes really dark. He’s in his 80s, and he’s dark as fuck. I love that.”
• 50:03 — “And you know his wife passed away, right?”
• 62:19 — “They’re like thought experiments from hell, basically.”
• 77:14 — “They require a few brain cells. Right?”
• 82:45 — “There are so few filmmakers who are artists…”

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For anyone passionate about cinema, Cronenberg, or the provocative discomforts at the edges of art, this episode is not to be missed.

Transcript

[Millie de Chirico]

This is exactly right.

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[Millie de Chirico]

Apply.

[Ryan Seacrest]

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[Glenn Washington]

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[Millie de Chirico]

Welcome to the podcast hall of fame.

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[Glenn Washington]

Award winning stories, original beats, soundscapes to drop you into the heart of the story. Find Snap Judgment from KQED every Thursday, wherever you get your podcast.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hi, Casey, how's it going?

[Casey O'Brien]

Hi, Millie. Where's your. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Where's your little cookie guy? Where's your little cookie guy?

[Millie de Chirico]

Here he is. Here he is. Casey has complained about the amount of times that I bang my desk when we record.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm tone. I'm tone policing your.

[Millie de Chirico]

My gesticulations. My passion is what? Exactly. So he's like, go grab something or go like fix the problem. And so I just, I think this.

[Casey O'Brien]

I actually, I think. Yeah. You. You came up with the solution.

[Millie de Chirico]

The solution was that I turned around in my office and I pulled this pillow that I have in my office, which is basically a pillow of a giant cartoon cookie that is like a little, it feels like a, you know, how have you, you have kids? You know what a squishmallow is?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. It's like a squishmallow consistency. It feels like one of those things.

[Casey O'Brien]

And he's an intimate part of our recording process. And he's like, kind of like the third host of this show.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. And if you've seen a picture of him, he's got like, it's like a little brown Cookie goblin with like a big tooth and like a little raised eyebrow, like, he's up to no good. Which he is. He is up to no good. And I love him and it's like my little safety blanket so that I don't ruin our podcast now.

[Casey O'Brien]

You said that also. We were talking about this before recording and then you said, and this is why I love BTS more now. And I was like, what are you talking about?

[Millie de Chirico]

This machine has many moving parts, as you know. That's bts, the band, meaning the machine. Okay. So they have.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which you might be a cog in this machine.

[Millie de Chirico]

I fully admit that. I fully admit that. Maybe we'll talk about that more in an upcoming episode. We'll see.

[Casey O'Brien]

We may have something on the schedule to talk about K Pop specifically. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And how. The whole reason why I even know about it is because I have long Covid and that is my main symptom. So the members of this band, bts, whom you probably know, they created their own. They're kind of like hello Kitty. I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, Sanrio.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, they're not technically Sanrio, but they have. There's another company that manufactures them.

[Casey O'Brien]

I see.

[Millie de Chirico]

But basically, each member created their own likeness in a little Sanrio esque character.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think he's cute. He's up to no good.

[Millie de Chirico]

He plays basketball. He. He hates milk. There's a lot of like, very cute, adorable things. And he's the littlest. He's like the little guy that hangs out usually on people's shoulders, the other character shoulders and. But I actually think that the little characters. I mean, I am a cog. It made me kind of like the band more. I was like, oh, I kind of. I kind of like this little character universe. I'm not like, very whimsical, you know, Like, I've never really been like a toy person and I've.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

I haven't played. I haven't really, like, invested in even the Sanrio world in a long time. Were you into that in the 90s? That was a very 90s thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I think I. That was, you know, more of a girl thing or considered a girl thing.

[Millie de Chirico]

You didn't like bats Maru?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's when I was like seven. I mean, I thought they were cool. I kind of admired them. They were sort of mysterious to me.

[Millie de Chirico]

As Asian people have. Have suddenly beaten. Become the apple of everyone's eye across the globe. It really makes me remember how cute their pop culture stuff is. Like, Asian people love cute shit. And they all have little Cartoon character things in every country in the continent. And I'm just like, I don't know. As much as I'm sitting here going, am I really like a 46 year old woman that's holding a cookie pillow right now? I'm like, I don't know. I'm half Asian. Doesn't that give me the rights?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, you're celebrating your heritage, my inherent cute genius. Yeah, right. Yeah. Well, Millie, this is an insane way to start this specific episode because we are talking today about the director David Cronenberg and his 2024 movie, the Shrouds. I would say David Cronenberg is one of the least cute directors out there.

[Millie de Chirico]

I would wholeheartedly agree with that. Probably the opposite end of that entire spectrum.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then after that, this is a whole David Cronenberg episode. I got a little Cronenberg quiz for you, Millie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, I might be ready. Yeah, I'm actually scared, to be honest, because I feel like you're a huge fan.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm a huge fan.

[Millie de Chirico]

Bigger than me, perhaps.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is one of my guys.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I love him. Yeah. I'm scared about what this quiz will be like, but I'll give it my all.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think it'll be a fun. More discuss. I don't like some of these. Well, we'll get into it later. But yeah, exciting episode. Can't wait to get into it. I wish I had a little stuffed animal that I could hug right now, but I don't.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, while the credits roll, I want you to be thinking of David Cronenberg's Sanrio line. You have at least 15 to 20 seconds. On that note, let's get things going. This is the podcast for you. Dear movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no? Check the box below. Oh, yes, that's right. This is the film podcast. Dear movies, I love you. We are for those who are in a relationship with movies. And that relationship can be tenuous at times, it can sometimes be disturbing. But there is underneath the surface, a lot of love somewhere. It just expresses itself, maybe in a very dark way. My name is Melita Jericho.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

And yeah, I. You know, the moment that I said what I said about David Cronenberg's hello Kitty line, I just kept, I was like, okay, so the fly has got to be one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I actually was. It kind of got my mind reeling when you said that. Yeah, the fly. That's a good one. Brundle. Fly. Sanrio character. What else? I feel like, you know, the brood. Yes. I think those little guys would be really good Sanrio characters. Those little killer. I don't even know what you'd call those little monsters. They would be good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Imagine like a little Samantha Egger.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, opening up her.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, fuck. Spoiler for the brood.

[Millie de Chirico]

Whatever. Like, can you imagine that being like, on some stationary or like a little keychain.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Or like a stuffed animal that has like, Velcro that you open up the end that's in there, you know, so that's good. I, I, this is good. I feel like there's some merch that could be made here, but it'd have.

[Millie de Chirico]

To be like, like, okay, I'm thinking James Wood splitting his abdomen open and pulling out. Like, maybe it's not a gun. Maybe it's like a little lollipop. A little lollipop. Or maybe a little piece of toast with, like, some butter.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, that's good. That's cute. There's so many. The mind reels.

[Millie de Chirico]

We'll start the design phase this weekend. We'll come up with some sketches and we'll move forward.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yeah, what could be from the movie Crash? Anyways, let's move on. Millie. Such a exciting episode. We just gotta get right into it. We gotta get into the movie diary.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Where we talk about the movies we watched from the past week. Millie, what do you got for us?

[Millie de Chirico]

Hold on. I'm still reeling from opening that extremely heavy yes. Book cover. Well, you can count on me to watch one and a half movies this week. All right, so the full movie that I saw in theaters now, I think I saw the naked gun from 2020. You saw it? Okay, first of all, the crowd was delightful.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, what a dream.

[Millie de Chirico]

It was like all older people. It was awesome. It felt like we were like, yeah, it's us. Like, we're here, it's Friday night and like, it's like a 40 plus crowd. It was awesome.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. These people know how to appreciate a film.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And I went with a group of friends. Like, I have to tell you, like, this is the bomb that we need right now. The bomb, the bomb. We need something like this. Just the stupidest shit that is like, maybe something from our childhood affiliated, you know, like, I don't know, bring back, like, just some of the, like, dumbest things. Like, you mentioned Austin Powers. I think when we talked about this last time, I would kill for like an Austin Powers or a Wayne's World 2 or some kind of, like, dumb thing. Like that just, like, bring it back. It was so funny and stupid. I loved it. I loved it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Everyone is saying it's great.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I want to see it.

[Millie de Chirico]

There was a. There was this one, first of all, the. The whole, like, Liam Neeson as the kind of. He's like, the son of Leslie Nielsen or whatever. That's really great. I am so impressed by how funny Danny Houston was.

[Casey O'Brien]

Really? Oh, I. I'm shocked.

[Millie de Chirico]

He was so deadpan funny. Like, it's like he. It was that kind of thing where it's like, you know, the movie villains, they always put in a guy that you have only seen in kind of more serious roles, and then they. They kill. They fucking kill at being funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just by being serious. And that's exactly what he did. Like, there's this exchange that he has with the Liam Neeson character at one point about a band. I won't tell you what band it is that I was cackling. I was cackling in the movie theater, period.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, God. Yeah. I mean, I saw an interview with Liam Neeson where he was talking about, like, it was very important for me to play this. Like, it's a drama. Yes. That's like. That's why Leslie Nielsen was good. And, like, what this is, like, it needs to be taken very seriously.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, I will say Danny Huston's character, like, his whole vibe was giving to me, like val Kilmer and MacGruber in that way where it's like, you know, you always have seen Val Kilmer in these, like, kind of serious, intense roles, and then he plays this, like, buffoon villain, and he's just. He plays it just like his other roles, and you're just, like, laughing, and that's it. I mean, as long as you play an absurd character with as much seriousness as possible, it'll be funny. I'm kind of hoping now for a little bit more. I want more of this slapsticky, like, really funny, broad stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I hope that this ushers in a new era of just, like, I even kind of enjoy, like, the Nutty professor and the Clumps. Stupid stuff, you know, like, I'm ready. Bring back, like, Scary Movie. And, like, yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

I would kill for a Wayans Brothers parody that would be so funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, like, I'm hoping that. I feel like we got to a point where it's like, comedies needed to be so grounded and improvised, and I'm. And, like, natural dialogue. I'm just like, yeah, bring it back.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's like when we were talking about the mockumentary stuff with the Office where everything feels like it's a, it's a mockumentary. This is absolutely the opposite. This is very like over the top, like really like a sight gags as far as I can see. And this is, it's like very, you know, almost kind of like overproduced but in a funny way, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I'm a big, I was always such a huge fan of Jim Carrey and like he, like that type of comedy that he was in in the 90s does not exist now. And I'd love for that to come back. Maybe we'll have. Maybe Jim Carrey will come back. I would love that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, we need it. We need it badly. It'll heal the world.

[Casey O'Brien]

It'll heal the world.

[Millie de Chirico]

So.

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[Millie de Chirico]

So, and then the half movie that I saw was. And I fully intended to finish this, but I simply fell asleep. And it's. It's not because this movie made me sleep. It just was. It was late and it was my fault. My bad.

[Casey O'Brien]

When did you start this movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Probably like 11:30pm Whoa, that's way too late. I know. And it's because lately I've just been feeling this. I just wanted to catch a vibe, a very specific vibe. And the moment I tell you what movie it is, you'll understand why. So I watched half of the Wong Kar Wai movie Fallen Angels from 1995.

[Casey O'Brien]

And a vibe was caught until it wasn't until I. Until nodded off, until an angel fell asleep.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and this is like I'm right now, I guess I'm in a nostalgia for sure 90s filmmaking, my era, like my shithead phase. My like late 90s sort of film school era. And I don't know, for some reason I feel like there was some clips of Fallen Angels that were. I saw on Instagram or something like that. And I was like, oh, I want to live there. I want to live here.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I feel like Fallen Angels specifically. I don't know, maybe this is a weird thing to say, but I feel like it's like his coolest film in a way. Or like it's very stylized in a 90s way that his other movies don't necessarily feel that way. Like, I feel like there's like the use of wide angle lenses more and there's like, it's like very green, nighttime urban feeling, which was like, you would see that in a lot of 90s movies, I feel like. And so. But it's also Wong Kar Wai, so it has its other cool kind of vibe coming in. So I totally understand wanting to live there.

[Millie de Chirico]

And it's really a movie that just. It doesn't really, like, spend a ton of time with characters. It's just kind of like giving you people to be sat in front of and like, it just. It'll just wash over you. I mean, honestly, like the. Oh my God, the. The whole cigarette dangling out of the mouth of Takeshi Kaneshiro is just eternally hot to me. Like, I'm just like, holy shit. Like, that's a. That's a total mood. And I wanted to Read really quickly. So I was, like, looking. I was looking. Cause I've seen it before, obviously, but I. I was, like, looking up stuff about it. And there's. Let me read you the. The little. Couple sentences from the RogerEbert.comreview. this is written by Roger because I guess this was, like, in the 90s. Yeah. This is what he said about Fallen Angels. It's kind of exhausting and kind of exhilarating. It will appeal to the kinds of people you see in the Japanese animation section of the video store with their sleeves cut off so you can see their tattoos. And those who subscribe to more than three film magazines and to members of GarageB and to Art students.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ain'T wrong.

[Millie de Chirico]

He read us. He read us to filth. Roger got my ass.

[Casey O'Brien]

I like Fallen Angels is cool because it was like, kind of like the throwaway bits of chunking express.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

And made into a movie. And it kind of feels that way, but it feels different. I don't know. I. I love. I love this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Grittier. Great. Christopher Doyle. Beautiful camera work.

[Casey O'Brien]

Beautiful.

[Millie de Chirico]

And that's all I saw this week.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fallen Angels, 1995. Very good. I watched one movie this week, and I'd never seen it before, and I was always interested in it as a kid, and I was like, this can't live up to the expectation I have built for this movie in my head that I built when I was a child. But it did and more. And I really loved this movie. And I don't. I feel like I thought it was good legitimately. And that is 1999's Mystery Men. Have you seen this movie? Of course.

[Millie de Chirico]

I saw it the movie theater.

[Casey O'Brien]

When it came out, I was stunned at how creative it was. And there's, like, so many ideas in it. And the production design is pretty incredible, and the costumes are, like, outrageous. And it just had a good style to it that I was, like, impressed by. And it, like, really catapulted me into this world that I enjoyed living in. And it's very silly. And. I don't know. I had a great time. I had a blast watching it. I was just, like, so delighted watching it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it's fun. And it's like, there's good people in it. Jeanine Grof and Paul Rubens and Greg Kinnear. Isn't he in that movie, too?

[Casey O'Brien]

Greg Kinnear? Yes. Kel Mitchell of all that fame is in there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I. Oh, hey, Kazaria. Yeah. William H. Macy. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

William H. Macy. Yeah. Just like, a great cast. And I don't Know, I had a really good time. I really liked the Vera Drew movie, the People's Joker. And I felt like they're sort of similar worlds, like, sort of this, like dark. I mean, the People's Joker is supposed to be Gotham City. So it is like Gotham, but more outrageous. And yeah, I really enjoyed Mystery Men. I loved it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I thought it was a delight.

[Millie de Chirico]

Good. I gotta see that again.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it was fun, you know, hearing the All Star by Smash mouth. It's good to hear that again.

[Millie de Chirico]

A vibe.

[Casey O'Brien]

A vibe vibe. And you know, they name check the Mystery Men in the lyrics of that song, so.

[Millie de Chirico]

Huh. I didn't realize that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, Another blockbuster that has an original song, a part of it, which we talked about recently. So, you know, I love it. Anyways, that's it. That's all I got.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, that's it, huh?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Just the one.

[Millie de Chirico]

Damn. What's short this week?

[Casey O'Brien]

Light week. A little light, but that's okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

I guess we can close it on up, man.

[Casey O'Brien]

Close it up. I also have been watching a lot of the X Files lately. I'm back on the X Files.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, don't even. We're going to have to like make a side quest podcast about the X Files.

[Casey O'Brien]

You like the X Files, dog? She's mad now.

[Millie de Chirico]

You wouldn't have known this because you didn't know me in the 90s, but I didn't. I was a huge fan. I used to watch it every Sunday with my roommate David Hornbuckle and my other roommate, John Thompson, who actually would come in and watch Buffy before I.

[Casey O'Brien]

What a. What a tandem.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're kind of similar. A little bit.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. He was always trying to get us to watch Buffy, by the way. He was like, you don't want to come in a little early into the living room, like. No. And I. And it kind of. For shame because actually now I feel like I probably would have liked Buffy. And I've seen like a couple of episodes here and there, but I feel like. I don't know why I didn't like it back in the 90s, but now I feel like I could probably dig it, so I should.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's fun. It's good. I like Buffy. I like X Files more. Yeah, Trisha and I watched like the first five seasons and then the movie, and then we needed to take a break. Cause it was getting so confusing. And after doing extensive research, I sort of understand what's going on with colonists and black oil and all that stuff. So we're on season six and we're having a great time and I love that show so much.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I. My favorite episodes I think tended to be the like little one offs that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Would tell the monster of the week ones. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. Although I did fit like the cigarette smoking man stuff was interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

The mythology gets very convoluted. And it's funny when you like look up answers online. It's never like some of these things aren't fully explained and the explanation online will be like it's either this or this. And it's like there isn't. It's not as cut and dry as I feel like a show would have to be now that comes out. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, and I gotta tell you, I really hung in there with the X Files even after Fox Mulder left. And then they brought in Special Agent John Doggett who is of course played by Robert Patrick, aka the Liquid Cop from Terminator 2amongst many other things. And Annabeth Gish Special Agent Monica Reyes. I think she was. I don't know who she was. She had like some kind of weird psychic ability and I never figured that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Looking forward to it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wait, you've not seen these?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I haven't seen the whole series. I know that he leaves though. I mean that's not. I'm not really worried about sp. I mean we're in season six. That's where we're at right now. So we got a long ways to go.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. Well, anyway, I am with you on a lot of this stuff. Not that this is an X Files podcast, but you know, for a while I did think that Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny were going to do the whole like Anthony Edwards and mayor winning ham thing and Miracle Mile when they were going to like get together later in life after they were co stars.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would love that.

[Millie de Chirico]

I kind of want that for them too. And like they, they play around with it. I mean they might have actually dated. I think they definitely boned. Let's get serious. But like, you know, they, they always like played around with it and I was always like, just get together forever.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Look at what's happening with all of these other celebs.

[Casey O'Brien]

I remember there's like a famous clip of Gillian Anderson. Is it Gillian or Jillian? I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Maybe I'm wrong. I say Jillian.

[Casey O'Brien]

Jillian. I'll say Jillian. There's a clip of her at the Emmys. I think she won an Emmy. And she kisses David Duchovny on the mouth and then her husband and like goes and accepts the award.

[Millie de Chirico]

That bitch is my girl she is. I love her so much. She is wild in these streets and I'm here for every single fucking moment of it. She's like, honestly the type of lady to be really?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

She's so awesome. So that doesn't surprise me at all that she's kissing a lot of men on the lips.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyways, X Files have sort of taken over my life again.

[Millie de Chirico]

And God and you love CDs again. You're like a 90s boy right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's true.

[Millie de Chirico]

In a 90s kind of world, we're.

[Casey O'Brien]

Talking about hello Kitty telling you, let's.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just this is the end of Dear Movies, I love you. And now we're going to transition to our new podcast, Dear 90 I love you.

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[Casey O'Brien]

It's time for our main discussion, which is covering my boy David Cronenberg and also the movie the Shrouds, which came out last year, which may be David Cronenberg's last movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

No.

[Casey O'Brien]

And if it was his last movie, it's kind of a good one to go out on, I thought. I felt sort of there was a finality to it.

[Millie de Chirico]

I felt, yes, I think death is pretty final.

[Casey O'Brien]

Death is final as a topic, but.

[Millie de Chirico]

As in a concept. And yeah, I don't know, he puts out. I mean, gosh, for. He's like one of those guys his age that are like, cranking out movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But I know he had trouble finding funding. He has trouble finding funding, which is kind of crazy. Like one of our masters, it seems like. I know this happened with Jim Jarmusch too, where it's like, it's hard to get money for their movies. And that just seems so wild to me.

[Millie de Chirico]

So I want to talk about this financing bit because one of the things that really popped out to me and after doing a little bit of research on this now I have realized that they've done other things, but did you notice that St. Laurent Productions was at the top of the heap in terms of producers of the film, like Saint Laurent, meaning Yves Saint Laurent, the fashion house?

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't notice that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's interesting because I was going, oh, I didn't realize that St. Laurent, aka Yves St. Laurent, produced movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't know that until this moment.

[Millie de Chirico]

I thought they made, you know, high end clothing and handbags and belts and things of this nature. Right. And then it started making me think, okay, so I remember Tom Ford directed a movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

He directed a few.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I know that fashion and movies go hand in hand, but I was like, wow, I can't believe they produced this Cronenberg movie. And then I went and looked at the things that they've produced and they've done a lot of things. Like they. They produced Amelia Perez and the Amaldivar. Remember that? Amal Short, Strange Way of Life with Pedro Pascal and Ethan Hawke. What was it? Lux Eterna? I mean, I was like, oh, so they've been in this game for a minute at least. And then I was like, really down a rabbit hole. And I just was like, okay, I want to know what other, like, consumer brands have gotten into movie productions producing. And I think that And I just like, see all these trend articles. It's like, oh yeah, Neutrogena is in the film game. What the fuck are you talking about? Like, all of these like companies that again, are making like, consumer products are now trying to get into movies. And like, you know, not just, you know, stuff like Nike and things, but like, yeah, Neutrogena and you know, like, I don't know, maybe like fudgeing Mr. Clean is going to have a couple movies coming out next year. I mean, who knows? I mean, it's crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

But Saint Laurent, it's like a fashion house, so it makes sense. Like, and I feel like David Cronenberg is kind of fashionable. His movies are kind of cool look, you know, and so like, did they design the shrouds in this?

[Millie de Chirico]

See, I think that they did. I think that was part of it. But then also it's like the creative director of Saint Laurent is apparently a big cinephile and is just like wanting to make movies with like people he thinks are cool. Like, and he obviously like Ameldivar and like Gaspar Noe. And like. Yeah, I mean, I just am like.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, it probably costs as much to make the Shrouds, for example, as it does to produce like a perfume commercial with Natalie Portman or whatever, you know, and it's so, it's like, it is a way to get their, their, their brand out there in a way that is interesting. You know, it's if even if it isn't a commercial specifically, it's like to be associated with a movie. Makes sense.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, I don't know, now that I think about it, I'm like, oh yeah, I remember like Mac and Me or whatever. It's like all of these like, you know, companies that make movies about their products essentially. Yeah, I was just, it's just an interesting little world. But anyway, I noticed that right off.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's interesting.

[Millie de Chirico]

But then I did notice there was like a shit ton of production credits.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's like 15 of them and I swear to God, one is like in there twice. Like, yeah, it felt like there. That's just like he had to cobble this all together to get money. And also this didn't feel like a super expensive movie to make.

[Millie de Chirico]

I wouldn't say. Yeah, I mean, there's so crazy Millie.

[Casey O'Brien]

David Cronenberg.

[Millie de Chirico]

Uh huh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Are you familiar with this guy? And if so, what's your. Where did, when did the relationship begin and what's your relationship to him now? What do you think of this fella?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I don't wanna. I don't wanna necessarily point to something that I've already done, I've already written about, but I have. I've loved Cronenberg since I was in college. And one of the first. I mean. I mean, I think I saw the Fly technically when I was a younger person, like, maybe in high school. But I wasn't really. It wasn't really synthesized until much later when I actually understood what the fly was actually about. And then it realized that it made me cry every time I watched it. But I went to a screening of Videodrome when I was in college, and I just was radicalized. Every shithead in my film program loved Videodrome, of course. And then you just kind of run down the list. And I did a thing for the Academy Museum in LA last year. They had a exhibit about cyberpunk.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh, I didn't know that. I love cyberpunk.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I don't think.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love William Gibson.

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't think you were living there anymore.

[Casey O'Brien]

I wasn't.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, the Academy museum reached out to me and asked me if I wanted to write a piece about Videodrome for the book that came with the. You know, you could. Whatever that came with the exhibit. And I wrote about Videodrome a. Because it was really the first Cronenberg movie that I really loved. But then it became such a important movie and really kind of important reference for me when I had surgery, which is unsurprising because, you know, obviously, Cronenberg's main themes are about the body, right? But, yeah, I. I had surgery in 2018, where I was basically cut down the middle. I've talked about this. Like, I had an exploratory laparotomy, which is essentially what James woods has in Down His Belly, that he pulls the guns and the tapes from and things like that. So in my mind, Videodrome felt, like, suddenly super personal to me. And I would actually tell people, they're like, well, I heard you were in the hospital for a couple of weeks. I was like, yeah, I just got, like, a Videodrome scar. Now it's all good, and everyone's just like, oh, that's fucked up. But anyway, so now, like, his career has, I guess, maybe since I've gone through my own body horror, suddenly his work is, like, way in focus for me. And then. I don't know. Now. I mean, I've rocked with him for years. I mean, he's making movies all over the place. And so. And I watch them, and I see. I see everyone when they come out for the Most part. And I still think he's a great filmmaker. Like, he's still making fucking crazy movies, don't you think?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I mean, the last two movies, Crimes of the Future, which came out, I think, in 2022, and then the Shrouds, I was like, these are bangers. I'm like, these rock. These are just as. These are up there with his, like, best movies. Like, it's amazing how he's still. He's still got it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, he's still got it. He's still like, yeah, this is kind of like a mantra for the film. But he. He goes really dark. Like, he's still. He's, like, in his 80s, and he's dark as fuck. I love that.

[Casey O'Brien]

But also, I feel like he's so good at balancing this tone of, like, it goes like. So he's exploring the darkest shit.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

But there is. He has a very interesting sense of humor. Cause his movies are funny. And I would say the Shrouds made me laugh at several points in the movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, for sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's like he is able to bring in. There's almost like a knowing, like, we know this is insane, what is happening. Like, the depths we are going. And so it never feels like emotionally taxing, in a way, for me. But even though they're exploring such dark themes.

[Millie de Chirico]

How did you become drawn to him? Is it because of that? Of these topics?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I think my dear friend Patrick Mallon turned me on to David Cronenberg. And at first, his movies disturbed me. They were nothing I'd ever seen. I think Videodrome was the first David Cronenberg movie I saw, and I was, like, so confounded and disturbed and grossed out. But then I just kept watching his movies, and much like a character in a Cronenberg film, I began to mesh with these films, and then they became some of my favorite films because I'm very interested in technology and how technology and machines interact with humans and the human body and the effect that technology has on people. And all of his movies are essentially about. Well, not all of his movies, but, like, it's a theme he comes back to all the time, is like, the human body colliding with machinery and technology. And oftentimes there is a violent collision of those two elements. And, yeah, I just find his movies endlessly fascinating, endlessly watchable, and incredibly disturbing and incredibly unique. Like, there's truly no movies like these David Cronenberg films.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I have to agree. He's really, really singular in that way. Did you. When you were living in la. Did you go to that? Do you remember when it was at Beyond Fest over at the Cinema Tech, AKA the Egyptian, when they did, like, all the Cronenberg movies? It was like a huge marathon.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm knowingly nodding. I was right in the midst of that. I went to five movies in one day.

[Millie de Chirico]

I did, too. Were we at the same movies?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. This is. I went on the day that it was like, the Brood Shivers. Rabid. Dead Ringers.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yep.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's another one. Or maybe it was just those four. That's still a lot for one day. But I was there. I watched, like, four movies in a row.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. I went with, like, a crew of, like, dirty minded individuals. And we. I think we watched five. Dead Ringers was in there, though.

[Casey O'Brien]

Dead Ringers was the last one. Oh. Scanners, I think, was the other one.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And I can't. I don't remember. How did they do them? I don't remember the one.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was like one right after another.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I remember running to the McDonald's on Hollywood Boulevard just to get fuel.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. I. Casey.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is crazy. Stupid ass McDonald's to do the same thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. Wouldn't it be wild if. I wish we had a time machine.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh. Oh, my God. It'd be like that Celine song movie where we brushed against each other and somehow now we do a podcast together.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. This is an incredible discovery.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. No, I. It's so funny. I have. I just was, like, going through my Instagram account the other day, and I saw a photo that I took a selfie of me and my friends watching at the Cronenberg Fest thing, and I was like, oh, God, that was awesome. Like, I watched five David Cronenberg movies that day. That's so insane.

[Casey O'Brien]

So were you there for the Michael Ironside interview? That might have been a different day.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. See, and I can't remember what day I was there.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's so funny. Yes, I was. I was right. I was all up in that. And I loved every second of it.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think it was Shivers Rabid. The Brood Scanners. Dead Ringers. One day.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. And then I think I was there that day.

[Millie de Chirico]

Fly, Naked Lunch. Videodrome Existence. And then they did at the Arrow. It was like History of Violence. Eastern Promises. Spider Crash.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Yeah, No, I was definitely there for the Scanners Rabbit. Shivers. Brood Day.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was, too.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. Incredible. Sliding doors.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sliding.

[Casey O'Brien]

How exciting. But, yeah, I love him and he's so inspiring to me. Just to be, like, the confidence to do his absurdly weird things in his movies is inspiring, and he really has something to say. And I don't know. He's really an amazing artist, and I love him.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I was thinking maybe you could give a synopsis of the shrouds and then we can get dirty.

[Casey O'Brien]

Getting dirty. Okay. This is gonna be a tough one because there's not like a this happens, then this happens sort of thing in this movie. I'll do my best here. The names in this too. Okay. Karsh, Our main character named Karsh, played by Vincent Cassel, who I thought really looked like David Cronenberg at times in this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I think he did that on purpose.

[Casey O'Brien]

Of course. Yes. He's still mourning the death of his wife Becca, who died four years ago of cancer. As part of this mourning, he has invented a device called GraveTech, a device in a company. And it is a tombstone with a screen on it that broadcasts real interactive video of, like, your loved one's rotting corpse. So you can. And you can access it with your phone too, so you can look at your. The rotting remains of your dead loved one anytime if you want to do that, because. And some people do, including him. And that's what inspired. He's like, I wanted to be there with her. So the images are captured with a shroud that envelops the corpse. It's kind of like this imaging sheet, bodysuit thing. This is a controversial company. One day, Karsh notices some strange growths developing on Becca's bones. When he's inspecting her rotting corpse, they look almost mechanical. But before he can figure that out, several of his gravestones are destroyed, including Becca's, and the whole system is hacked. So he can't view Becca's body anymore. He employs his doofus ex brother in law, Maury, played by Guy Pearce, to help figure out who hacked him. He also grows closer to his wife's identical twin, Terry, played by Diane Kruger. Diane Kruger plays his dead wife, the twin, and she also is the voice behind the AI Digital assistant. Honey, I'm sure we'll get to more of that later.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hell, yeah, we are.

[Casey O'Brien]

Slowly, he begins to learn more about his wife, including IK possible experiments that were conducted on her by her oncologist ex boyfriend during her treatment. There's also just kind of like a ton of conspiracy theories or conspiracies that are sort of thrown out that involve Russian and Chinese governments getting involved with the shroud, like Grave Tech in order to spy on other countries. Using that technology, it's very hard to untangle the shrouds that you did the.

[Millie de Chirico]

Best you could, bro.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did the best I could.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. What did you think of all that, by the way? I. First of all, this movie is, like, two hours. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Pretty standard at this point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

There were times where I think at a certain point I was like, am I actually getting this? Am I. Am I tr. Like, am I getting. There's a lot of. Everyone's kind of connected, and I'm like, do I. Am I following correctly? Especially when it moves into, like, these, like, European investors. And like, I'm just like, okay, I don't understand maybe that part and how everyone's connected, but for the most part, I did really think. I was like, wow. I mean, it felt very personal.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I think that, you know, if you kind of know the history of David Cronenberg, and, you know his wife passed away, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. That was the inspiration for this. She passed away in 2017, and I.

[Millie de Chirico]

Think she had cancer. Am I wrong about that? And so I don't know. When you think about that and they were together for so long.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

When you think about that and you think about, like, the idea that the Vincent Cassel character sort of looks like him, it felt like it was kind of like he was working through grief. Did you feel that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Oh, 100%. Absolutely. And I think it's cool, you know, like, he has the confidence of an artist, as an artist, to be like, yeah, I'm gonna. My wife died, and I need to work through that. I'm gonna make a movie about a guy whose wife died that looks just like me.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And, like, the character of Karsh, he's like an industrial video producer, which it's like, that's kind of. Could be what Cronenberg would be called, maybe. And also, there's these quotes in there that I'm like, this is directly. So directly addressing Cronenberg and kind of his career. Like, at one point, Terry, the twin of his wife, said, you've made a career of bodies. And I was like, that is like David Cronenberg. Like, all of his movies deal with the human body.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so it was really interesting because it is so personal, and it is so directly addressing his real life in such a direct way that I thought was really interesting.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And for that reason alone, I was like, I think this movie's great. Because I was like, you know, obviously, it's so interesting to me, too, because he. There seems to be this generation of filmmakers that are around his age that were part of probably, like, a new Hollywood, the whole like, you know, 70s auteur era who are now 80 something years old or getting there, because I don't know if you've ever seen. Did you see the last Paul Schrader movie, O Canada with Richard Gere?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I didn't.

[Millie de Chirico]

That movie was also. I mean, Paul Schrader has made similarly. Like Cronenberg makes pretty personal films. And they're always usually on a theme. They're about religion and things of that nature. But that movie was also about him kind of working through his feelings about mortality and death. Apparently he had gotten Covid, like multiple times and was. Death was all around him when he was writing that movie. And he like made that movie to process his feelings about being old and dying. And so it's that feeling of. It feels like this entire generation of filmmakers that we grew up studying and loving are now kind of all in a similar place in life. And so it feels like these later movies that they've been making are all these like introspective films about big subjects like death. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely. And like, I think also his career.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And like that, you know, and death and his career are kind of intertwined because his career is coming to an end soon, you know, and so is his life. Did you see the Fabelmans, Steven Spielberg's the Fable?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I missed that one.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's really good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Everybody says it doesn't deal with death. It's a weirder movie too then like the things. The relationships are interesting and. But it's dealing with kind of looking back on a career in movies in sort of a similar way. I kind of feel like the Shrouds is. I mean, there's such different movies. It's insane to even compare the two. But he's a. He's. But he's like that probably around the same age as David Cronenberg. And they're kind of reflecting.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. You know, it's like all of our filmmakers from film school are going through it at the same time and we're here for it. I mean, the thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

And the movies are good too, because sometimes those kind of movies suck.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I. The thing that David Cronenberg has always been really good at is, at least for me personally, is scaring me to death about the possibilities of technology.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like this whole grave tech thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Would you. You want. You want this, right?

[Millie de Chirico]

I'd like to eat at the five star Michelin restaurant that's attached to it.

[Casey O'Brien]

We have to talk about the first scene at some point, but continue okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like this grave tech thing. So hopefully this isn't going to be confusing to those who. By the way, spoiler alert. We're doing another new movie if you haven't seen it and you don't want to know anything about it. I should have said this at the very beginning, but whatever. It's like. It's like a new fandango. It's like a high tech cemetery, obviously, using 8K resolution to be able to look at your dead relatives. Nose holes. And. And he also has created. This is the Vincent Cassel character. He has created this, like, fancy restaurant that is attached to it that you can have your lunch. And then you're looking around and there's like these giant shrouds menacingly staring at you when you eat. You're like, I don't know, field grains. And I just kept thinking to myself, do I want to eat at a nice restaurant in a cemetery?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, we need to. Okay, we need to talk about the first scene then.

[Millie de Chirico]

Go ahead.

[Casey O'Brien]

So the first scene of the movie is Karst is on a blind date with a woman. And immediately I'm like, where the hell are they? Because I know this is a movie called the Shrouds, and in this restaurant are shrouds. And she's like, wow, it's kind of interesting that we're eating at a restaurant in a cemetery. And he's like, well, I own this restaurant. And she's like, oh. And he's like, and I own this cemetery. And she's like, oh. And then he's like, yeah, my dead wife is buried outside. Do you want to see her grave? And she's kind of like, sure, let's go see. And she's confused about grave tech. She thinks that these are video screens that show, like, I don't know, nice pictures of your loved ones. Like those digital frames. And he turns it on and he shows her the rotting corpse of his deceased wife. And she's like, oh, my God. And she's like, you're a nice guy, but see you later.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Intense. First and intense.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. How would you react on a blind date like this?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I'm weird, so I'd probably be like. I'd be like, I. I was thinking about this actually, when. When this was happening. I was like, would I go down? Of course I'd go down. I gotta see it.

[Casey O'Brien]

You gotta see the wife's grave.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure. Okay. I gotta see it. I mean, I'm just. Because I'm serious.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Karsh does ask, how dark do you want to get right.

[Millie de Chirico]

Which, of course, to me, I'm like, let's roll, baby. I'm in. But, you know, I would go. I hate to say it, I would go, now I'm with you. Though there's a limit to what that could be. I. I totally thought, much like her, it was just gonna be like a digital portrait of an Olin Mills photo taken of his wife. I would definitely be out after that. I just, I think that. So this is the thing that I was wrestling with the entire film. Because Karsh, by the way, my. When I started at TCM in 2004, the lovely GM at the time was named Tom Karsh. And yes. And so every time they said Karsh, it kept reminding me of. Of Tom from tcm, the old TCM days. But anyway, I was struggling with the idea that Karsh was supposed to be the good guy in this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, I. More. I thought he was pretty morally bankrupt in a weird way. Like, I was like, this is a tech bro, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. He's driving a Tesla.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. He's integrated all this, like, crazy technology while at the same time, like, having an apartment that is very old school Japanese, which I'll get to in just a second. But the moment that Tesla pulled out, I was like, oh, he's one of these fuckers. Like, he's trying to make tech that's supposed to improve the world, and it's really just kind of weird and, like, not helpful. And he's naive about the hackabilities of things, and he's sort of like. It's kind of like his, you know, the whole, like, kind of Frankenstein's monster concept of some rich guy who just, like, wants to build this, like, thing that he wants so badly for himself. For himself. Right. Even though when you scope out of it, there is something to be said for somebody who's grieving, right? Like, you're like, oh, he's grieving. This is what he wants to do with his grief. But I also kept thinking, I. I can't roll with this guy, though. He's like, this is too much, like, interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

I. I guess I was kind of like, what is David Cronenberg saying by making this character this way?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, exactly.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I feel like what he's saying is this guy is fucking pathetic. Like, to a degree that is so outward and public. And I think that part of grief, like, I think that can be a part of grieving, like, feeling like, God, I'm so publicly pathetic. Everyone sees how pathetic I am. And I think I don't know. I sort of. That sort of my. Was sort of my interpretation of why he's like, you know, he's like a classic tech bro.

[Millie de Chirico]

And he also. There was so much language and conversation around this idea that he, like, felt like he had a right to own his wife's body at multiple points, which kind of drove me bananas because I was like, I mean, there's the obvious stuff about, like, being in a long term relationship and feeling like, you know, you're, you're so embedded with somebody that, you know, you sort of, you know, you're obviously like in a relationship with them that's very intimate. And you, you do, at a certain point are responsible for each other's bodies in this, like, very broad way. Right. But his language they kept using was that, you know, his wife's body was his body. He wants to be with it and watch it and, and watch it decompose. And he was offended when her body was being, you know, basically, you know, surgically challenged or changed because of her illness. And I just kept thinking that feels, I mean, when you put that against, like, all of his other characteristics, there's character. I'm like, oh, my God, he's like a maniac.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And that's what I kept wrestling with in terms of. I mean, honestly, I think David Cronenberg is really good at just throwing out these, like, big concepts of like, is this fucked up? What do you think about this?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Which I appreciate. They're like thought experiments from hell, basically. But it was that moment where I was like, I cannot root for him. In a weird way, I like that.

[Casey O'Brien]

David Cronenberg is saying, like, it seems like an exploration of the insane thoughts you have when you're going through grief. Sort of like, these are like the insane thoughts that you have that flash through your brain when you're grieving. Except he's playing them out.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. You know, and that's the darkness. Right. It's like taking the things that feel like they're forbidden to even ruminate on and being like, it's a movie for you to watch.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Which I, as a, as a shithead. I appreciate that. Big time. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I would like to talk about. Honey, are you ready for this?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I'm ready.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. Real question, actually. And maybe you know this, maybe you don't. Do you have to get special permission from Apple to like, feature their operating systems and their tech?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm sure you do. I know that bad guys are not allowed to be featured using iPhones in a movie, like the villain of a movie can't use an iPhone. Only the hero, good guy can. And so I can't imagine Apple would really want a character like Karsh to be, you know, on an iPad.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I. I kept wondering that because I was like, oh, they're like FaceTiming. So this honey character is his. So Guy Pearce, more about him later, has given him the gift of like an AI assistant. And her avatar looks like a memoji that you would build in your Apple, your phone, your iPhone, who also looks like his wife.

[Casey O'Brien]

Not just that. The voice of Honey is the AI version of his dead wife's voice.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it sounds exactly like his dead wife.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. Which, to be honest, I have actually read about in the news about how people are using AI to connect with dead relatives, which. So, you know, he's got his finger on the pulse, pun intended, with that. And so to see it play out was kind of crazy. But, like. So she basically becomes his assistant and sets up all of his, you know, clandestine, weird multinational appointments.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

And there is a moment. So hopefully this isn't too convoluted. Karsh is moving into these, like, weird, like, dreamlike states, would you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Where he believes that he is possibly seeing his dead wife, like, enter the room and things of that nature. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's hard to tell if. Yeah. It seems like it's like a dream sequence, but it flirts with reality slightly.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. No one is really. And even his character doesn't know, of course. But like. So there was a moment where Honey is not to be trusted. Is it becomes an unreliable narrator. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

He gets a warning that there's some bad code.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. And then she kind of goes rogue. And Imperial basically embodies his wife in one of his dream sequences where she's missing limbs and has a lot of surgical scars. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Which is. It seems like how his wife looked when she died.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. And this shit freaked me out so bad because she was doing this, like, she was basically taunting him. Like, she was like. Yeah, she had gone rogue. She was basically appeared to be his dead, mutilated wife and was like, doing a little strip tease.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I was like, I am so disturbed by this, I can't even tell you. I was freaked out by Casey.

[Casey O'Brien]

Am I lying about that Disturbs you, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Just the fucked up nature of that. Just like an idea that an AI would go, like, go for the jugular like that a. Yeah. And then her, like, weird cartoon striptease with her tongue hanging out. I was like, yeah, she was like twerking. I was like, come on, this is absolutely insane. And I like hate this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I mean, I feel like that goes to show, like how kind of perverse this is. This like trying to communicate with the dead using AI or even like viewing their decomposing. It's like a perverse notion.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, it is. I think that's the best word to. It's extremely perverse and taboo. Like the whole subject matter.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

The way it rolls out, what you get is for an 80 something year.

[Casey O'Brien]

Old guy, I mean, he has a quote about technology that I actually find comfort in technology in David Cronenberg movies, because he has this quote that he says, technology is not alien, it's not inhuman, it's completely human. It's really an extension of us. And so I don't fear. I feel like I fear technology in the way that I fear other humans, which is a lot. But it's not. It's not. I don't. I. Yeah. So I'm kind of comforted weirdly by that notion.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, but that's, I think maybe part of the point is that it's informed by other users and a lot of times informed by people like us. I mean, that's what ChatGPT is, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So you're sitting there chatting with ChatGPT and all of a sudden it starts doing a. It starts doing a dismembered little twerk show for you, and then you're like, who the fuck around me is informing this thing to do this? Like, what mind created this? What human mind put these things together? But I also think that AI are robots coming to kill us too. So I don't know. I'm of both minds, I suppose. But the honey character was disturbing to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

And when he ditched her, I was like, thank God for that. Let's. Let's talk about. I don't know. Do you. Can I bring something else up, please? I want to bring up the twins in the movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure. And this is kind of a Cronenberg thing. He said twins in other movies. There's a movie called Dead Ringers that sort of, you know, investigates that concept.

[Millie de Chirico]

What would you say would be like recurring themes in Cronenberg movies?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I wrote down a few, you know, obviously mutilated bodies and also vulva shaped scars.

[Millie de Chirico]

True.

[Casey O'Brien]

And vaginal scar, like vaginal looking openings and bodies, big slits.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's just say it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, sure, sure, sure. One that I wrote down, watching this movie was like conversations during sex, which happens in a few of his movies where people are like talking a lot at like conversationally kind of during a sex scene.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. They were like processing a lot of information. Information.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. And you know, just like the violent interaction of machinery and technology with the human body.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's definitely. Which we've covered. I'm sure there's a million more, but those are the first kind of themes that come to mind.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow. It's interesting. David lynch also loves twins and doppelgangers and things.

[Casey O'Brien]

He does. Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

What's up with white haired guys with.

[Casey O'Brien]

Big hair and twins named David?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh my God, you're onto something. Publish. So there are a set of twins technically, even though they're not. They're sisters. So Diane Kruger, the actress. Diane Kruger, who plays the wife, the deceased wife. She also plays her sister who is much alive and she is a former veterinarian now dog groomer who has. Has kept a friendly relationship with Karsh, but then was formerly married to the guy Pierce character who is now is kind of like techno consigliere guy or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. This movie is so confounded confusing to expluted, dude.

[Millie de Chirico]

So my question to you is. There's a couple of questions. One of the things that I thought was like so funny about this movie, like you said, there were moments of hilarity in the shrouds.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is that it's like this very like 1980s comedy device of there being a hot twin and then like a dowdy twin.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

And the sister, the sister who's alive is the dowdy twin. Right. She's got like kind of frumpy hair and she wears like, you know, work pants and she's a dog groomer. She eat there. What? There's at one point where Karsha's at her house and she's eating like a bowl of cereal at her dog grooming table and there's like bits of fur everywhere.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm like, girl, I didn't even clock that.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was like, terry, what the fuck? Don't eat where you groom your dogs. That's so gross. But the thing about her that her character that drove me to heights of hilarity and cackling laughter is how she went from 0 to horny in like 2.5 seconds.

[Casey O'Brien]

The horniness of this movie is a huge component.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I think a part of the grief process as well. Especially with your wife. It's like, am I allowed to be horny again? You know? And yes, it really did go from 0 to 60. There wasn't much ramp up. But there's this whole thing about Karsh being obsessed with his wife's body.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then it's like her twin sister has the same body. But I was told by my wife specifically, don't have sex with my sister when she's gone. But he can't help himself.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, that was all, again, shady protagonist. I was kind of like, bro, what's up? Because he was also banging out the blind lady.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Which we haven't even talked about yet. Yes. There's a blind. There's a blind character.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you even need to get to that one? I'm like. That deals more with, like, Hungarian international relations. I'm like, let's just not touch that right now. I don't have the bandwidth for that.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, there is a blind character.

[Casey O'Brien]

And yeah, she was so hot too. I mean, everyone is hot. Like, Vincent Cassel is hot. Diane Kruger is unbelievably hot in this movie. Everyone looks great. It's a sexy ass movie. And it's also dealing with death and grief and stuff. And I think there's interesting things that Cronenberg is pointing to with horniness and death.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, on that note, I will say the actor Guy Pearce is in the film who has always been attractive, but looks like absolute shit in this film. Yeah, he's like. To me, he was kind of like an incel character, wouldn't you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally. Totally.

[Millie de Chirico]

And that again, another kind of modern concept that I think David Cronenberg kind of figured out and is, like, put into a movie. I mean, first of all, it doesn't surprise me that he is ramped up all of the conspiracy theory stuff, because that seems also really modern. Right. There's all this, like, modernism in his film where it's like the tech, the Tesla stuff, the, you know, conspiracy theories, the body autonomy questions. Right. But then the incel guy, which is like, yes. You know, he's like a hacker and then can't get his shit together and like, eats matzo ball soup and plays on his computer all day and night. And then like, hates women type of thing. Right. It made me realize, though, I don't think I've seen Guy Pearce in a movie in a long time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, then you never saw the Brutalist.

[Millie de Chirico]

I didn't. Duh. I didn't see that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, No, I feel like. Yeah, we haven't seen him in a little bit. I like Guy beers.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I do too. And it's funny because his career, to me in the 90s, went from Priscilla, Queen of the Desert, la Confidential. Memento.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then I was like, bye. Bye. I haven't seen you in a long time. And now this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And now he's an incel. He was good, though. I mean, he was believable. He. He's. He's. He can play like a hunk.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And an. And a dork and a creep.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I want to talk about this, because this is so dumb. You know what I think is interesting about Cronenberg, too, is that I feel like Cronenberg as a director, and I think it's because his movies are. They require. They require a few brain cells. Right. Wouldn't you say? I mean, we can't even. We're smart people. We can't even figure out half of the shit that's happening in this movie. Movie, right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

But there's also this, like. Especially in this film, I would say really specifically this film, but also the last film, too, Crimes of the Future. He's got this, like, patina to his films that feels very like movies for interesting, slightly dark adults.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

It feels like. Yes. It feels like it's for urban, childless couples. And, like, I just. It feels very, like, urban, sophisticated, New Yorker reader people. I don't know, like. I know. I know exactly what you're saying.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm saying, like, it's like this movie. It's like the. The vibe of this movie is the people who are coming to see it. And the people that would be most titillated by it, perhaps, are people who I would see going to this art house movie theater in my old neighborhood called the Terra, and they would go and see, like, the piano teacher at, like, 11am on a Wednesday. They were, like, retired. They were older, but they were still, like, culturally. They were, like, patrons of the arts. Does that make sense? Yeah, that's.

[Casey O'Brien]

They'd be at an art gallery opening, certainly.

[Millie de Chirico]

But you're right, child, childless, or at least, you know, like, not within easy reach of grandchildren.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

And, like, because the whole vibe of the shrouds, it's like very muted colors. It's slightly erotic, of course, which, you know, you need as a patron of the arts. There has to be some eroticism to the art. Right. But also it kind of uses these, like, elevated gadgets, like, you know, like nice cars and nice computers. And then I spoke about the sort of, like, Japan house that he has where it's like, you know, he sleeps on a cot on an elevated floor, and it's like all of the kind of, like, beautiful wood of everything. It's like Scandinavian, Japanese, you know, kind of thing with his, like, Noguchi lamps and everything. And I was like, oh, yeah, this is like catnip for like, maybe you and I in about 20 years.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I want to look like. I envision myself looking like David Cronenberg, you know, wearing like black long coats, white hair that sticks straight up. You know, this type of person. I want to exist in that realm.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I do too. I unfortunately think I'm going to probably end up like Terry. I'm going to be, like, smelling like dogs with some nasty ass, greasy hair, you know, bad clothes from L.L. bean, but then horny.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think that's my future. But I'm still in the movie. I'm in the movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

You're in the movie. And I mean, frankly, is Maury that far from my future? I hope so. I hope he's far away. But there's part of me that's like, that could be me too. I mean, you aim dumpy, idiot.

[Millie de Chirico]

You aim higher. I would aim for the hot Asian blind lady, but I would end up the dog groomer, I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's, yeah. Or somewhere in between, you know, between those two. Shoot for the stars. What is it? Shoot for the moon. Because you'll still be with the stars if you miss or something like that. You know that phrase?

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't, but I love whatever you just said.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, well, Millie, I don't know. Did you have anything else to say? Anything else to cover with Cronenberg?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I mean, honestly, when it boils down to it, we got to love a guy his age who is making some fucked up shit. As I said before. Yes, I, I, I drew. I truly feel this when it comes to, like, creative work. Right. I truly feel that there are so many posers to just hang out in these worlds, like art, film, music, et cetera. I feel like there's actually very. It's very rare to get actual creative people that are making art. Most of the time it's people who just have somehow hung around with cool people. Like they're soaking in coolness through osmosis. They're not actually, like, coming up with crazy concepts and weird thoughts and being able to execute them in any kind of way. Right. And I kind of feel like David Cronenberg is like the last of that. Like, he's kind of one of these, like. I mean, he, like, has singular visions. He's weird as hell. He, he makes personal films. He freaks me the fuck out. I mean, these staple stitches that he has in his movies with these people's skin. I mean, like, oh, my God. Crazy, crazy, crazy. And he's been doing it consistently for like his entire adult life, 50 plus years. And I just feel like that's something to be celebrated. Like, it's like when David lynch died. It's like he's the last of the great weirdos. And in a world of people who are just like, so not original and they're just sort of like, cool by proxy, to know that there's a guy like this, like Cronenberger still, like, doing actual weird, dark shit is fantastic to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I think it just goes like, there are so few filmmakers who are artists.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And look to film as an artistic medium. Obviously every filmmaker is creating, is being. Is saying something about themselves. But to truly, like, express yourself so intimately and artistically through this medium, the you. There aren't that many us filmmakers that are doing that explicitly.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, anymore.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And like, we just don't have that many arthouse filmmakers anymore. And it feels like they're dying off.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So. Yeah. I completely agree with everything you just said.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I salute you, Cronenberg. This was a crazy movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'd love it if it wasn't his last.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, me too.

[Casey O'Brien]

But if it was his last, it is a good movie to make your last movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Agreed. Agreed.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, we're gonna go down a road that we'll see how scary and treacherous this is. I want to do a Cronenberg quiz. Now, one of the things I love about David Cronenberg, he has a lot of, like, made up tech and a lot of made up institutions.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

And scientific kind of, I don't know, theories that are, like, fictional in his movies. But you believe them.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

So this is a quiz where I'm going to name a device or an institution and you have to say what movie it's from.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God, this is going to be so hard. Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Does that make sense?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, it makes total sense. Yep.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. I think it'll be easier. For example, the movie we just watched, Gravetech, you know, that's from the Shrouds. That's like something he made up. So here's the first one. Telepod. This is a device. A telepod.

[Millie de Chirico]

This has gotta be from the fly, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's correct. It's from the fly. It's the device that Jeff Goldblum is working on. Accidentally gets a damn fly in there and he becomes part fly and mutates into a fly. And it's nasty.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

Here we go.

[Millie de Chirico]

One right.

[Casey O'Brien]

One right. Yes. Okay. Here's another device. An Umbicord. An Umbacord.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. I feel like it's. It's not from the Brood, right? No. Oh, my God. Like, what is the one with Jennifer Jason Lee? Am I on the right path? Am I on the right path?

[Casey O'Brien]

You are. You're on the right path.

[Millie de Chirico]

Existence.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's correct, Millie. It's existence from 1999. And umbacord is. So they have game pods that present umbachords that attach to bioports, which. The Umbachord is a connector that is surgically inserted into a player's spine to play the device. The Game Pod device.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yo, I.

[Casey O'Brien]

Good job, Millie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thanks. I really. You were. You saw my work there.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was thinking hard. Good job. I think this is gonna be a little bit harder. Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, God. That was hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

So these are institutions. These are institutions. The SOMA Free Institute of Psychoplasmics is this. I can give you a definition of psychoplasmics as well.

[Millie de Chirico]

Will you just do it? Anyway, I think I might know.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is a. Psychoplasmics is a form of therapy where patients manifest their emotional distress as physical symptoms.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is this from scanners?

[Casey O'Brien]

No.

[Millie de Chirico]

What's it from?

[Casey O'Brien]

The Brood.

[Millie de Chirico]

God damn it. Oh, no.

[Casey O'Brien]

The Brood. That's the institute that Samantha Eggers is. Samantha Egger is, you know, committed to. And it's run by Dr. Hal Raglan, played by Oliver Reed.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oliver Reed? Yeah. Son of a bitch. Oh, God.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's okay. That's tough.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, God. That was hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, there we go. I'm scared now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, this one. This one might be too granular, but here we go. This is another institution.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

The Spectacular Optical Corporation.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. This is from. This is from Videodrome, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's correct.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Eyeglasses company that acts as a front for an arms company.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right. I knew it. I was like, oh, I. Actually. I know somebody who has a business called that. But anyway.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Perfect.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

There we go. You're doing really well, Millie. I'm impressed.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm not. I'm scared. The hard ones are hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

The hard ones are hard. Okay, here we go. This is. These are two. These are two institutions, and they're in the same movie. So 1 is Con Sec. C O, N, S, E C. And the other one, which is a military company, and then Biocarbon Amalgamate, which is a pharmaceutical company.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's from scanners, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's from scans. Yes. Very good, Mellie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, God. Oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

So this Next one. This is my last one.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is a impossible, is what you're saying. This is impossible. This is a made up disorder. Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Accelerated Evolution Syndrome.

[Millie de Chirico]

Evolution Syndrome.

[Casey O'Brien]

Accelerated Evolution Syndrome.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's not Shivers.

[Casey O'Brien]

Correct.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you. Is it from Crimes of the Future?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's correct. It's from Crimes of the Future, Millie. Great job. The Accelerated Evolution syndrome is a disorder that causes body to spontaneously grow new organs, which, you know the Viggo Mortensen character, He has them removed in a performance art piece. That's that. Well done, Millie. Let's see, you got 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Five out of six. Is that right? 1, 2, 1, 2, 3, 4th, 5, 6. Yeah, you have five out of six. That's really good.

[Millie de Chirico]

I pulled a lot of that out of my ass. I mean, I.

[Casey O'Brien]

You did great.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was just basically doing like, you know, I was basically doing the thing where I was like, if not this, then this. And I was just like looking at his filmography being like, okay, this has got it. Like, this has got to be related to military. This has got to be related to body.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, there's so many that it's like, oh, there's like a military and pharmaceutical company or like a institute.

[Millie de Chirico]

Anyways, I was just putting them in the baskets, as I always do, and was like, all right, if it's not this, then this. But anyway, wow, that was actually really challenging, Casey, I must say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I'm glad. I thought your head was gonna explode like a scanner.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. How do you know it hasn't? Maybe this is my AI Avatar.

[Casey O'Brien]

Shit.

[Millie de Chirico]

About to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Please don't twerk.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my goodness gracious.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, Millie. Wowie. Zowie. My second favorite Pavement album. I'm excited that we got to talk about David Cronenberg today, but we are not done yet because it's time for employees picks film recommendations based on the theme of the discussion. Millie, what do you got?

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, well, we have quite a lot to choose from from his filmography if we really wanted to.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's true.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, so I will say that my employee pick for this week, if we're in the Cronenberg verse is this is a movie that I've probably seen a lot, but that. I don't know, sometimes people, like, don't bring it up as much, but it's rabid. From 1977. Fabulous Marilyn Chambers, who, as you know, was sort of the it girl back then. She was in porn films and was getting into, like, acting and stuff. And she was in behind the Green Door. That's kind of her most famous porno film, if you will. Art porn, maybe. But I. I've seen this quite a few times, and this was a movie that, like, used to play like. It's kind of like a movie that I would see kind of alongside, like, just grindhouse movies. 70s grindhouse movies. But then it does belong as part of this, like, trajectory of Cronenberg's career. Right. Theme wise and everything. But great film, dude. It's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, she gets. She has an orifice open up in her armpit.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, the armpit.

[Casey O'Brien]

And Millie, you and I may have watched this together, and we didn't even know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Didn't even know it. And then we went and got chicken nuggies from McDonald's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I might have pushed you, you know, out of the way to get some. A McRib or something.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

You don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Then we opened up our jacket and stuffed it into our armpit hole for sustenance or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm going to recommend a movie that is very Cronenbergian, but it's not a David Cronenberg movie. So I thought it'd be cool because he's so influential. I want to do one that is, like a Cronenbergian, obviously influenced film.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

And that is 2021's Titant by Julia Ducarnau. It won the Palme d' or at the Cannes Film Festival. And it is about a serial killer woman who gets impregnated by a car.

[Millie de Chirico]

Did you guys check it out? Did you guys do it to taun on your last podcast?

[Casey O'Brien]

Did we actually do it? We named it the artsiest, fartsiest film of the year.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. Maybe that's what. I feel like you brought it up.

[Casey O'Brien]

Before we did talk about it. I don't know if we. I don't think we did it as an actual episode, but it is violent and freaky and sexual and fascinating and French. So check out Titan.

[Millie de Chirico]

Would you say that because there does feel like there are certain new filmmakers that feel very inspired by Cronenberg. Would you say that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Yeah, I would say. And I would say Julia Decarno is definitely one of them. 2016's Raw. Her first movie is also. I feel like she. Because she's talking about the human body a lot in her movies.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And they are body horror, I would say, you know, like the body horror genre. It's Cronenberg's baby. I feel like he kind of. I don't know if he invented it, but he's the master. And I don't know he's anything. That's Body horror is kind of, I feel like, in some ways, inspired by Cronenberg.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, cool. Hey, I'm gonna watch Titan.

[Casey O'Brien]

And have you seen it?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, never seen it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's good. It's good.

[Millie de Chirico]

I heard it was so on my list.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, well, that's our show. We did it again.

[Millie de Chirico]

We certainly did. Yeah. So here's the thing. Do you want film advice? Do you need a specific recommendation? Do you want help navigating the Cronenberg filmography, for example? Or do you have a film gripe? Do you have a consensual film grope? Do you have a film regret? Any of these things can be thrown in our direction at dear [e-mail] Also, if you feel like sharing your voice with us, you can leave us a voicemail. Just record it to your phone, make sure it's under a minute, and email it to again. DearMoviesExactlyRightMedia.com.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, real quick. What's your favorite David Cronenberg movie? What's your number one?

[Millie de Chirico]

You said that like Jimmy Glick.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm talking like Tammy. Millie, what's your favorite David Cronenberg movie? I love Jiminy Glick. When he says to Steven Spielberg, stephen, when are you gonna make the big one?

[Millie de Chirico]

I like when his voice gets all smile like this, honey, can't say dad. You can't say hi.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then he goes down here. I love Jiminy Klik.

[Millie de Chirico]

You're telling me that Martin Short ain't gay? What the fuck? Come on. All the evidence is out there. I swear. My favorite. Okay, My favorite. I mean, this is so boring. But the fucking Fly, dude. The Fly is a masterpiece.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a good movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

What about you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Three way tie, Stupid Dead Ringers, Xystens and Crash. I love those. I'll just say Crash. I love Crash. Wow. And I love Existens.

[Millie de Chirico]

You're really, like, hanging out in a little time period there?

[Casey O'Brien]

I am, kind of. That's true.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, like 80s 90s.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyways, follow us on our socials earmovies. I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterboxd handles are C. Leobrian and M. De Chirico. And listen to Dear Movies I Love youe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie de Chirico]

We gotta talk about next week.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're delving into a cinematic universe.

[Millie de Chirico]

He's up there with the Cronenbergs of the world.

[Casey O'Brien]

The Cronenberg cinematic universe. Wong Kar Wai. Like we said, on this episode.

[Millie de Chirico]

We'Re.

[Casey O'Brien]

Talking about the Usher, the singer Usher cinematic universe. And we're going to kind of hone in on the film. She's all that from 1999.

[Millie de Chirico]

And a universe can be like two movies sometimes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I am squeezing my shookie pillow in anticipation for that. So please join us next week. Please. Casey, this was a great. Another great deep dive into a filmography.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you for suggesting we do this fucked up movie. And yeah, I had a blast.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me too. I feel like it got kind of nerdy, which we like to do sometimes. But hopefully, you know, we didn't lose people along the way.

[Millie de Chirico]

I hope not. Don't want to lose.

[Casey O'Brien]

You don't want to lose.

[Millie de Chirico]

You don't want to have to go to your grave and look at your bones in 8K, you know?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, we don't want to do that, but we will. Well, Millie, thank you for being a great podcast partner.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thanks.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I'll see you next week.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, Bye. Bye.

[Casey O'Brien]

Bye.

[Millie de Chirico]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie de Chirico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our again executive producers Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Chirico.

[Millie de Chirico]

We love you. Goodbye.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through August 26th, it's back to deals time where you can enjoy store wide deals and earn four times points. Look for in store tags to earn on eligible items from Califia Farms, Pillsbury Crescent, Yoplait, General Mills, Prego, Bertoli, Heinz and Kraft. Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event long savings. Shop in store or online for easy drive up and go. Pickup or delivery subject to availability restrictions apply. Visit Albertsons or Safeway.com for more details.

[Glenn Washington]

I'm Glenn Washington, the host of KQED's Snap Judgment podcast. And at Snap, we don't just tell stories, we live them. Every week a different journey, like on a plane with Rihanna. A racetrack in Tijuana. A year inside an Oakland homeless encampment. Real people, real voices with original music and cinematic sound. Snap Judgment from kqed. New episodes every Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts.

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