Donnie Darko: Director's Cut (2004)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You

Episode: Donnie Darko: Director’s Cut (2004)
Hosts: Millie De Chirico, Casey O’Brien
Release Date: January 27, 2026

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Episode Theme Overview

Millie and Casey dive deep into Donnie Darko—specifically, the 2004 Director’s Cut—unpacking its cult status, ambiguities, and its place in the pantheon of 2000s "dude movies." Their conversation explores the film’s sometimes confounding mythology, its generational impact, and its unique blend of genres (coming-of-age, sci-fi, horror). They candidly debate whether it holds up or remains “the most important movie ever made,” sharing personal connections and critiques along the way.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Context & First Encounters

• Both Millie and Casey recall their first viewings at formative ages; Millie during college in the early 2000s, Casey at a Halloween midnight screening, age 15 ([43:28]).
• The film’s marketing and “indie vs. studio” confusion: Millie discusses a time when movies like Donnie Darko, Napoleon Dynamite, and Rushmore blurred lines between indie cool and mainstream packaging ([43:49]).
• Casey felt drawn to Richard Kelly’s trajectory: “I want to have the exact same career as Richard Kelly. I want to go to USC, and then I'll make my first feature with Drew Barrymore immediately thereafter” ([46:49]).
• They note how the movie resonates especially with men or "dudes" of their generation ([45:00]).

2. Director Richard Kelly and Legacy

• Discussion of Kelly’s rapid ascent—Donnie Darko written and directed at 26—contrasted with his later career struggles and cult/critical fallout with Southland Tales and The Box ([47:10]).
• Notable quote from Kevin Smith via Wikipedia: “He is insanely creative and is not unlike Christopher Nolan. But Nolan wound up in the Warner Brothers system… Richard can be one of our greatest filmmakers… He's still a kid, and someone needs to Nolan that kid” ([47:55]).

3. Soundtrack & Era Authenticity

• The soundtrack’s pivotal role in the film’s cult status is highlighted, with detailed breakdowns of Director’s Cut changes (notably swapping “The Killing Moon” for INXS’s “Never Tear Us Apart”) ([52:32], [52:53]).
• Both note confusion and a “Mandela effect” regarding which songs appeared where.
• Critique of the film’s 1988 setting—the costuming (esp. Drew Barrymore’s teacher character) and textures often “too modern” and not authentically late ’80s, with Millie emphasizing, “Drew Barrymore would be wearing…giant shoulder pad suits…not looking like that. I don’t care who the fuck you are” ([64:19]).

4. High School Realness & Cultural Commentary

• Millie identifies deeply with the character Cherita: “Cherita is I, and I am Cherita…That’s me. If you want to know my plights when I was in middle school and high school, that’s me” ([56:44]).
• The show’s depiction of bullying as tragically accurate for the era.
• Discussion of coming-of-age tropes, the “mean boys”/bully culture, and how these serve as both window dressing and, in the Director’s Cut, possible narrative bloat.

5. Movie Structure, Themes, and Tone

• Genre-mixing: Sci-fi, horror, high school drama, and satire collide, sometimes uneasily ([41:02], [61:38]).
• The Director’s Cut inserts more explicit time travel lore (the “Philosophy of Time Travel” book pages), which both intrigues and frustrates:
  • “People complain that he explained it too much in the director's cut...it's easier to just be like, I don't know, time travel stuff, whatever. Who gives a shit?” – Casey ([71:24])
• Millie’s big-picture observation: Donnie Darko’s structure is “giving Stranger Things” before Stranger Things existed—suburban kids, wormholes, multidimensional danger ([72:32]).
• They debate whether the Director’s Cut’s explanation deepens or muddles the story and ponder which elements should've been foregrounded: "Just make it more of your other thing that you actually really wanted to make" (Millie, [87:49]).

6. Memorable Performances and Meta Moments

• Star-studded cast: Drew Barrymore, Mary McDonnell, Patrick Swayze, Seth Rogen, Noah Wyle, Jena Malone, Maggie Gyllenhaal.
• Fun trivia: Seth Rogen’s first film (though now billed high, he’s barely in it) and Alex Greenwald’s cameo (Phantom Planet singer, [41:46]).
• Iconic moments and lines: “I’m starting to doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion” ([77:09]) and "Did you make any friends? Real or imaginary? Imaginary." ([42:15]).

7. Film Diary Segment – Recent Watchlist Highlights ([23:08]–[37:12])

• Millie: It’s Never Over: Jeff Buckley, Ryuichi Sakamoto: Opus, Marty Supreme — thoughts on changing tastes and male sensitivity in music docs, plus skepticism toward performative “good guys.”
• Casey: DOA (1988), Down With Love (2003), Notes on a Scandal (2006). Notably, Casey relates personally to the obsession themes in Notes on a Scandal ([33:00]).

8. Gripes, Gropes, and Grets ([88:17])

Memorable Listener Grope:

• Leela writes to praise John Carroll Lynch (Zodiac's Arthur Leigh Allen), sharing, “He was extremely nice, good humored and down to earth…In many ways, he's, to me, like Tony Goldwyn is to Casey” ([89:19]).
• Millie reflects on how actors who play villains are often “the sweetest, cutest people in the world…baby koala bears” ([90:03]).

9. Notable Listener Question: TV Show vs. Movie ([91:32])

Valerie (Atlanta): “What, in your mind, truly brings the difference between what makes it a TV show versus a movie?”
Millie and Casey debate shifting definitions in the streaming age—time length, episodic structure, intended viewing platform—concluding it’s “complicated,” with movies retaining urgency while TV now “takes its time to meander” ([92:28]).

10. Staff Picks

• Casey: Enemy (2013, dir. Denis Villeneuve) – “It’s pretty trippy and it’s got Jake Gyllenhaal…he plays a professor who sees a movie where there’s a guy that looks exactly like him…trippy and weird” ([98:23]).
• Millie: We Need to Talk About Kevin (2011, dir. Lynne Ramsey): “There’s a part where [Donnie tells his mom] ‘I’m crazy,’ and she says ‘You’re not crazy.’ That could be its own movie.” Resonates with Donnie Darko’s theme of misunderstood sons and mothers ([99:03]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

“I want to have the exact same career as Richard Kelly. I want to go to USC, and then I'll make my first feature with Drew Barrymore immediately thereafter.”
— Casey, [46:49]

"Cherita is I, and I am Cherita. I'm telling you…If you want to know my plights when I was in middle school and high school, that's me."
— Millie, [56:44]

“People complain that he explained it too much in the director’s cut… just be like, I don't know, time travel stuff, whatever. Who gives a shit?”
— Casey, [71:24]

"Drew Barrymore would be wearing…the fucking easy spirit pumps with the dark pantyhose and her like giant shoulder pad suits. Like…She’s not looking like that. I don’t care who the fuck you are."
— Millie, [64:19]

“Just make it all about that and get rid of the whole high school sparkle motion, you know, 80s nostalgia throwback…”
— Millie, [87:49]

"This movie was made with a lot of money, but we’re gonna make it hip…the hipsterification of commercial films.”
— Millie, [44:00]

“I felt like I always owed them, and I was kind of trapped…a lot of manipulation in that."
— Casey, on Notes on a Scandal ([34:27])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [05:31] Start of Donnie Darko Discussion (Director’s Cut focus)
• [07:41] Official Podcast Introduction
• [23:08] Film Diary – Recent Watchlist Segment
• [38:30] End of Film Diary; transition to main film topic
• [40:42] Movie Overview: Donnie Darko
• [52:16] Soundtrack Discussion & Director's Cut music changes
• [56:44] Cherita, Bullying, High School Culture
• [61:38] Tone Problems—Balancing Comedy, Satire, and Gloom
• [71:24] Sci-Fi/Time Travel, Director’s Cut Explanations
• [77:09] Sparkle Motion, Meme Lines, 80s Dance Nostalgia
• [81:28] Climax & Ending Explained
• [86:43] Does Donnie Darko Still Blow Minds?
• [88:17] Gripes, Gropes, and Grets
• [91:32] Listener Q: TV Show vs. Movie
• [98:23] Employees Picks/Staff Recommendations

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Flow & Takeaways

• The episode is playful, self-reflective, and occasionally irreverent, maintaining a warm “film nerd besties” vibe even when airing critical takes.
• The hosts are frank about their evolving feelings on Donnie Darko: initial awe, followed by skepticism, then a more nuanced appreciation.
• Millie’s perspective grounds the discussion in the complexities of nostalgia, generational shifts, and representation (particularly as an Asian American woman relating to Cherita).
• Casey’s personal filmmaking ambitions illuminate why Donnie Darko became a touchstone for creative “dudes” of a certain age.
• Ultimately, both agree it’s a cult classic not for airtight storytelling, but for its big swings and indelible mood—even if the Director’s Cut perhaps muddies the waters too much.

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In a Sentence

A bright, affectionate, slightly skeptical revisitation: Millie and Casey use Donnie Darko—in all its messy, moody, meme-able glory—to discuss what defines a generation’s cult cinema, what happens when a “dude movie” grows up, and why sometimes the time portal is best left a little mysterious.

Transcript

[Millie de Chirico]

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

Ugh.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just a couple more of these plates. You know I actually love washing dishes. Huh. I do have a dishwasher but I don't want to use it. I just love washing dishes. Oh my God. What are you doing in here? What are you doing in here? 12 days, 12 hours, 17 minutes. You're scaring me. What does that mean? That is when it's your birthday. Your birthday? Did you just sneak in my house to tell me that it was your birthday?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, sorry about that, Millie. I had something stuck in my throat, for God's sakes. Hi.

[Millie de Chirico]

How you doing?

[Casey O'Brien]

Hi. Yeah, my birthday's in 12 days.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, that's when I started putting it together. I was like, huh, Seems like somebody I know. His birthday's coming up in 12 days.

[Casey O'Brien]

You got any gift ideas for me?

[Millie de Chirico]

Why the scary costume, dude?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I'm just trying. Just trying, you know, getting. Getting ready for Easter in a couple months, you know, just trying out a Easter Bunny costume, so. Jesus.

[Millie de Chirico]

He scared the shit out of me. I mean.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't. I didn't mean to.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I was just curious that you know what you're gonna get me for my birthday. Cause you got me a great Christmas gift.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I did. I got you. I made you a custom dad hat.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I don't know if we should reveal what it is right now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, maybe.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I mean, what do you think we should.

[Millie de Chirico]

Maybe you can take a picture of it and post it on our social media.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh, that'll get people to follow us on our social media. Yeah. Millie got me a very podcast appropriate dad hat that I'm wearing right now. And. Yeah. Do you. Do you consider yourself a good gift giver?

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, I'm not like, terrible, but I try to. I try to make, you know, the inside jokes come to life, if you know what I mean.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But in terms of your birthday, can I ask you, will you reveal the age that you'll be.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm gonna be turning 38.

[Millie de Chirico]

38, bro.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's kind of a nothing birthday.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, I always feel like the sevens and the eights.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

In any given decade are like. They sound like shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's definitely like the age you disappear. Yeah, it's like a disappearance age.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, say it like this. Be like Casey O', Brien, a 38 year old man from Minnesota.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, you. That scared me. That gave me chills when you just said that.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm telling you something about the seven and the eight just. Just sounds bad.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow. Versus something like 32 year old Casey O' Brien is thriving in Los Angeles.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And also like even 36, there's something about that that I find inspiring. But 37 and 38, bad news.

[Millie de Chirico]

Clunky, clunky sounds, but.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Millie, I'm Sorry for walking into your home in a bunny costume to ask you on my birthday.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's a bit dramatic, bro. But you know what? Like, I probably expect nothing less from you at this point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, we have a great show today. This is our first recording after a couple weeks, so we have to get the rust off a little bit. We're talking about Donnie Darko today. And not just any Donnie Darko. The Donnie Darko director's cut from 2004.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I think we initially went in with the idea that we were gonna celebrate the anniversary of Donnie Darko, which came out 25 years ago.

[Casey O'Brien]

I forgot that was the impetus. Yeah, well, it's still celebrating.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's still celebrating. It's just that we decided to do the Director's Cut, which actually came out in 2004, but we'll have plenty to say about the original version that you probably had seen in 2001. Because I feel like there are such. I don't know. Now I feel like I'm completely confused about what I remember about Donnie Darko after re watching this. And. Have you ever seen the Director's Cut before?

[Casey O'Brien]

No. No.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, because I saw the original Donnie Darko.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Around 2001 when it came out. And then I didn't see the Director's Cut because I was like, why?

[Casey O'Brien]

I saw the Director's Cut on Halloween at midnight in the theaters in 2005. So very appropriate. Wow. That was a memorable movie screening for me. Yeah, I'm excited to talk about this. I have a lot of feelings about this movie. And then we're gonna talk about some gripes, some gropes, and some grats. We have a grope. An actual honest to God grope in there.

[Millie de Chirico]

A consensual.

[Casey O'Brien]

Consensual, Yes, a consensual grope. And I'm excited to talk about that. Lots to come.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, please stay tuned. You are listening to Dear Movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no?

[Casey O'Brien]

Check the box below.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hey, everybody. You are listening to Dear Movies, I love you. This is a podcast for those who are in a relationship with movies. My name is Millie de Chirico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey O', Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

And we are here at the end of January, 2026. What a snowy, bleak month that's coming to a close. How's the snow?

[Casey O'Brien]

It's so bad. It's snowed so much in the last two weeks. I've snow blowed, like, five different times. I think there's probably two feet of snow in our front yard. It's outrage. Are you cold?

[Millie de Chirico]

You know what I love watching on TikTok, when people, like, basically, like, bust. Well, it's like two separate things. One, when they remove snow or ice from, like, their roofs or their cars, and it comes off in one big thing, but then also, like. Is it called pipe dredging where people, like, remove ice from pipes and it comes out in these, like, big cylinders?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Does that happen to you at your house?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, it doesn't. I have this. I have special types of gutters that. That stop that from happening, so. But I do get big icicles in my house, which is an issue of heat leaking from the roof of my house. But anyways, no, we don't have the big pipes of ice coming out.

[Millie de Chirico]

Do you do any sort of dramatic snow removal that you could film and put on your TikTok account?

[Casey O'Brien]

I do like watching. I will watch, like, time lapse videos of someone shoveling, like, a huge lot in, like, a really organized way, like, getting all the snow out. So I also enjoy those. That TikTok content. But no, it's just. So it's one of those things too, like, you know, like mowing your lawn. You can. You're kind of like, oh, I got to mow my lawn. It's getting long. But, like, snow blowing is like mowing your lawn, but you didn't realize you had to do it until you woke up in the morning. Like, God damn it. Yeah, you know, it appears out of nowhere. So, yeah, it's very snowy and it is. It's beautiful. I like the winter, but it's just a lot.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, speaking of ice, perhaps, I got to talk to you about.

[Casey O'Brien]

What a segue.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know, I know, dude. I binge watch the global phenomenon which is called heated rivalry. You know what I'm talking about?

[Casey O'Brien]

I do know what you're talking about. I haven't watched one second of this show, but it's on the tip of everyone's tongue. Everyone's talking about it.

[Millie de Chirico]

It certainly is. And, you know, I had. I feel like I'm late to the game because this is basically a Canadian television show that is now on hbo, Max. And it is about two male hockey players who basically have an affair, and the affair turns into romance, and it is, like, the only thing anyone I know is talking about. Yeah, the two guys who are in the show are young and handsome and fit, fit, fit. And it kind of, like, doesn't hold back on the sexuality, which I think is really cool.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I heard the sex scenes were pretty hot.

[Millie de Chirico]

Pretty, pretty hot.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I must say. And, like, I think that is part of the appeal to people. Like, and strangely enough, like, straight women and also lesbians. I keep hearing that, like, women of all stripes are really into this show. And. And I can. I also keep hearing different. Different reasons for that, which I also think is really interesting. I mean, I have to say, I think it was. It was a fun watch. There's only, like, what, six or seven episodes? It's fun, I think. I love the two guys, though, that play these characters, one of whom is half Asian. Like, I am. So I'm extremely pleased that he is a Asian like me and is now, you know, put forth on this huge stage for his hotness. And he is hot, by the way. Like, both these guys are hot as hell. The other guy, though, is like, you know, he's from Texas. I think he reminds me of, like, a Richard Linklater guy. I can't describe. I can't describe it. It's like he kind of should have been, like, days of confused or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Or Everybody wants some.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, exactly. But I've been watching all this press that they've been doing because obviously it's. It's probably the most popular show on HBO Max right now, and. And they're just so easy breezy about, like, they kind of came together for the show knowing that they had to do these really intense sex scenes. And then now they're just kind of like besties, and they're just, like, doing all this press, and they're just so, like, handsy with each other and, like, very close. And it's like they're just like two best friends that fucking love each other. And I've heard them refer to each other as soulmates and stuff, and they have, like, matching tattoos and shit. I'm kind of like, that's great. Yeah. I'm sitting here going like, I kind of love this iteration of masculinity, if this is what we're talking about. Like, I love this whole, like, physically close best friend, like, soulmate thing between two dudes. You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But then there's this moment where I'm like, I hope to God this isn't some fucking fan service shit or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, you're worried. It's like one of those relationships that they did for the press, you know, like, you want them to be best friends in real life. I mean, you've. I feel like that's like, any fandom of, like, any group, too. Like, you know, I'm sure K Pop Stans want the. The members of BTS to all be best pals too, you know?

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. And that sort of made me think about our fan service. And I don't really know. You and I, we need to work on it, I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

Huh. Do you think people, like, we outwardly despise each other too much on the show or we need to be more buddy. Buddy?

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't know. I think. I mean, what are you. Do you have any tattoos at all? I haven't ever even asked you this.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have no tattoos.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, me neither. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

So we should get in service of the podcast. You should get a tattoo. Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, but it's like, I. I don't know. I think that there is something to that, though. I think that. I think people really want there to be relationships between people who work together in a very kind of, like, bestie kind of way. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I feel like that is, like, that was always sort of just like, maybe something that happened back in the day, but now is sort of like, you have to be.

[Casey O'Brien]

You have to be like, you have to be friends. It's something that might have. It was a nice thing to have happen in the past, but now it, like, is a requirement.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. It's like, you gotta be a gang of, like, cool people that, like, work together and stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, I mean, I think about that with, like, the Office or, like, Parks and Rec and all these other shows where, like, everybody is, like, best friends and they do podcasts together and they're. But this is like another level. Heated rivalry is like a whole new level.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And part of me is just sort of, like, I don't know, intrigued by it all, I guess is the best way to put it.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it is intriguing. And I do watch professional hockey, so I have a little bit of a background of watching, you know, I know hockey. And I would say the NHL is probably the most homophobic sports league of all of major North American sports.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, really?

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I would say so. They have problems of, like, they've, like, canceled their pride nights, and I don't know. All major American sports are homophobic except the wnba. Yeah. But the NHL has, like, never had an openly gay player where, like, the NFL and the NBA actually have. I don't know about baseball, but baseball has had gay players come out after they've left the mlb. But I just feel like we don't see that as much in hockey. But I could be wrong. I'm not an expert in gay Hockey player. Like real life gay hockey players. But I just know that they've canceled Pride Nights in the past and there's been issues in the past.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, you know, it's interesting too because I feel like there's a lot. I see a lot of tiktoks where they're talking about, like actual hockey players are watching the show and they're talking about it, which I think is so fascinating to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

The hockey, the hockey stuff in the show is a bit the cutting edge from 1992.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's like. It is a bit the cutting edge. I suppose. Like that part is fun to me because I love the fucking cutting edge. Yes. The movie the cutting edge.

[Casey O'Brien]

You just see like someone's upper body moving back and forth and then it cuts to like professional skater feet.

[Millie de Chirico]

That part to me is great. But yeah, I mean, to me, I don't know, I think it's positive. I like, again, this maybe move towards guys, sort of just straight guys mostly having a little bit less fear about being physically close to their friends. So that's it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think that's good. I think it can only be good. I think it's a great thing and hopefully it helps hockey fans become a little more open minded too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, there's a lot of meat on that bone that we didn't discuss, but I, I just wanted to mention that I saw it and that's very good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. Now, Millie, you wanted to bring up something else, which I'm a little bit loathed to bring up, but I sent you my acting reel.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. First of all, I left you on red for like, what, two weeks about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I sent Millie my acting reel. Crickets. Absolute crickets. And what do you.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is because you said it during the holidays. Okay. Like, you know, the last two weeks of the year, nobody, I know nobody responds to anything. Listen, the acting rule was very interesting. It really captured a time and place. You think, oh, hell yeah. Are you kidding me? Like fucking hipster pants and your. Oh, yeah, fucking like glasses and your, you know, big curly hair. That's what I was saying about the hair is that it kind of brought me back to this place where like, it was like a very, like, I don't know, maybe this was the work that you were getting. Because to me, I was like, first of all, the comparisons that people have given you to Bill Skarsgard, absolutely spot on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

Fabulous. Number one. Number two, there shouldn't have been any other actor portraying any tech bro, coffee shop fixed bike enthusiast. That was my lady, but you, that is your wheelhouse. In 2015, I was like, oh, here's a graphic designer that lives in San Francisco and rides this fix gear bike down to his like, artisan coffee shop. Artisan single origin coffee shop. Gets his like little cortado or whatever. And then like, wants to talk to you about the new app that I'll.

[Casey O'Brien]

Build you a new website.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was definitely my. That was my lane. I don't think I had any real dramatic work. I actually don't even know if I've ever had any real dramatic acting work to like put on a reel.

[Millie de Chirico]

So there are some kind. There were moments of drama.

[Casey O'Brien]

Moments of drama, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I. It's. It's so interesting, dude. I can't believe it's like, in a way, I don't know, I feel like you. You really captured the zeitgeist back in the day. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Did it. Did it open your eyes to. Did you do. Are you looking at me in a different way now after you watch that?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I think that was my fear.

[Casey O'Brien]

When I sent it.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think it explains why you have such a little personality on you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh boy.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, you're no shrinking violet, if you know what I mean. Like, you really know how to get in there and chop it up, which is a great skill to have and it's great for a podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

So sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

Good for you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, thanks, Millie. Appreciate it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Adorable 1.

[Casey O'Brien]

One correction from last week's episode, which was the How Stella got her Groove back. It's not really a correction, but you know, we talked about movies where like the name of the movie is a reference to a thing. I feel like we left one out, a big one, Sophie's Choice. And that was bothering me. So anyways. Oh, good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I'm glad you made the correction a correction. We needed to do it.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you try transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures available at public.com disclosures hey.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is US Olympic gold medalist Tara.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Davis Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Millie de Chirico]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Casey O'Brien]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Millie de Chirico]

So when it came to getting the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Millie de Chirico]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Orangetheory Fitness)]

Ready to change your Life? For just $2 a day, Orangetheory Fitness delivers one hour workouts that combine strength and card burn fat, build muscle and feel unstoppable. Right now, get a full month of unlimited classes for just $62. Don't wait. This offer ends soon. Visit orangetheory.com or your local studio and start your transformation today. Offer ends January 31, 2026. New members only. Premier membership, performance monitor and monthly billing required. Discount applies to first month only. Other terms apply. See studio for details.

[Casey O'Brien]

I want to open up the film diary.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I want to hear what you have watched. Oh, I see some good ones. I actually didn't look at what you watched. I'm excited to hear.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it was hit me. Yeah. So there's a lot of stuff in the film diary technically that I'm not going to talk about because it's like, you know, I rewatched K Pop Demon Hunters with my nephews. It's like, don't you talk about that. I watched a lot of, you know, holiday stuff, even past New Year's. So. But I'll talk about at least three. How about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Sounds good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. So the first thing that I watched was a documentary that was made last year. It's called It's Never Over. Jeff Buckley. Amy Berg directed it. I God damn this movie. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it, to be honest. Really? Oh yeah. Because I. This was made for my age group. Like you don't understand. Like I Remember when Jeff Buckley came on the scene? I remember being really into fucking Soundgarden, which gets brought up in the documentary and all that kind of alternative slash, kind of like independent punk music that I was into. And like, the early to mid-90s. I remember when Jeff Buckley came out and Grace came out. My. I had two friends who were super into that album. And so, yeah, when I watched this documentary, I think it kind of re. Reset my thoughts about him because I only saw him as a commercial artist when I was, like, 15, and I guess I didn't know everything about his artistry and his life and sort of, like, his relationships with women, which is this whole other thing that's kind of lovely and interesting about the documentary. And also just, like, his influences. I had no idea that he loved, like, Nina Simone. I mean, honestly, when I was 15, I didn't know that. So, anyway, yeah, it was kind of interesting to kind of just learn all this stuff about somebody who, like, I saw in a completely different way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, like 30 years ago.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, it's interesting. I feel like, you know, Grace was always on, like, the list of, like, best hundred albums or whatever it was. And I don't know, for some reason, I've never listened to Jeff Buckley. I really only know Hallelujah. I don't really know any of his music. Yeah. I mean, because I think I had a similar. I think I had a similar thought about him that you did, like, kind of like. Oh, it's like sensitivo, emo kind of guitar, acoustic guitar guy. And I didn't really have any desire to listen to that, so I'll have to give it a go.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it's definitely, like, an interesting doc. I mean, I'm, again, sort of. I always feel like I'm, like, teetering. I hate to feel this way. I just talked about it with heated rivalry, where I want to believe in the authenticity of, like, yeah, sensitive, evolved men. But at the same time being like, is that performative and evil and shitty? Like, I don't want to have, but it's like. It's hard. I think it's just the PTSD of being a woman, to be honest.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I mean, it's very easy to feel that way. There's so many men who are like, oh, that's like the sensitive, quirky guy. And then it's like, oh, he's a rapist. That has happened, like, a hundred times, you know. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And we're just generally.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're not very generally. Not Jeff Buckley, but I'm Just like, it's very easy to be distrusting of that type of guy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. And it's. It's really hard for me because I. I know lovely men like that, and it's. And I want to believe that they. You know, like, it's just wanting. I think it's just wanting there to be, like, trying to have a little bit of hope in humanity, ultimately. But it's. I don't know. It's an interesting doc. You should definitely watch it, and it'll actually make you realize, like, Grace is kind of an incredible album that is. Was, like, you kind of think he could never replicate that. Like, even if he lived and recorded more albums, I'm not sure if he could have ever replicated that album.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hmm.

[Millie de Chirico]

So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Anyway, so there's that. I also. Speaking of music, I also watched the. The movie Ryuishi Sakamoto opus from 2023. It's on Criterion Channel. It's basically just a performance, and it's. But it's really. It's really beautiful and well done. I think it was made by his son, but it's just, you know, him performing. It was the last thing I think he shot before he passed away. Could be wrong about that, but it was great.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's cool. I do love the Merry Christmas. Is it Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence score that he did. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

There was, like, moments of this documentary, because I think he was sick when he made it, where he kind of gets tired and he kind of stops playing and is kind of like, I need a little bit of a break. The fact that they, like, left that in there was actually really interesting. Interesting and kind of lovely in a way. And then the last movie I watched for the film Diary this week is I watched Marty Supreme.

[Casey O'Brien]

What'd you think, 2025? I haven't seen it. I want to see it.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's fine. Whoa. It's fine. It's Uncut gems in the 1950s about ping pong.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ping pong.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. It's fine. I. And that is not to say. I mean, I think it's fine. Uncut Gems is great. This movie is, again, like, a. Very much about a. That character. Like a man who is so driven by his own ego that he kind of ruins his own life. I wasn't buying that him and Gwyneth Paltrow were, like, banging out in the shower at a hotel. I kind of wasn't buying that a little bit. I did love Tyler, the creator. He was. He was actually really fun that part with. With him and Timothy Chalamet. And Tyler, the creator, was fun as hell. Like scary and fun and harrowing.

[Casey O'Brien]

But did you ever see the French Dispatch? Wes Anderson's French Dispatch?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, I did.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well. Cause Timote is banging Frances McDormand in that movie, so it's kind of interesting.

[Millie de Chirico]

Why did they always want to get that guy in with, like, much older.

[Casey O'Brien]

Women, Much older Oscar winners from.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is that what they think? Is that what Hollywood thinks we want as middle aged women is they're like, oh, we want Timothy Chalamet and be like, banging us out. No, not him. What about. I love anything but Timothy. I like him too. Trust me. I actually. He's one that I completely revise my opinion about in terms of just his vibe. But I'm just saying I feel like if we're gonna go in that direction, if you're gonna go find a MILF hunter actor. What about any of the guys from Heated Rivalry? Yeah, those guys got a lot of abs. You know what I'm saying?

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I mean, Timothy in this movie, he really does look like a cartoon mouse.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. And he's. He's like nerdy and diminutive and he just kind of looks like a shoe salesman. I think he actually is a shoe salesman at one point. And I'm like, really? You think he's putting on the old razzle dazzle?

[Casey O'Brien]

He's got that riz. Very good. I do want to see Marty supreme, but.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, you should. You should. I mean, I'm not saying anything bad about him. Just saying it's fine. It's fine.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. Okay. I watch like you. I watch a lot of movies, and so I kind of pared it down to three of them that I want to talk about. I watched DOA from 1988, directed by Rocky Morton and Annabel Jankel. They later went on to direct the Super Mar Mario Brothers movie with Bob Haskins and John Leguizamo. Have you seen doa?

[Millie de Chirico]

I've seen the original DOA with Edmund o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. This is a remake. It was good. It's with Dennis Quaid and Meg Ryan and Charlotte Rampling. I enjoyed it. It's pretty stylish. And it's set in Austin, Texas, which is kind of interesting to see in the 1980s. And yeah, had a good time with that one. Then I watched Down With Love from 2003 with Renee Zellweger and Ewan McGregor.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I like.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is fun. I thought it was like such a good throwback to like the Rock Hudson and. Is it Doris Day?

[Millie de Chirico]

Doris Day, yep.

[Casey O'Brien]

Type Movies. I thought it was, like, so effective that I was like, oh, I forgot this is a new movie. Yeah, that was good. I thought it was fun.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, it's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I had a good time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Was charming.

[Casey O'Brien]

They charmed the pants off me. And then I watched Notes on a scandal from 2006. I'd never seen this movie with Judi Dench and Cate Blanchett. Loved. I loved this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

I feel like we did this for.

[Casey O'Brien]

You did.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, we did. Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

You did it on I Saw what yout Did. It was fantastic. It's very tight. I love a tight film. And I won't go into this, but I've had experiences with people of the same sex being obsessed with me.

[Millie de Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

Having sort of fractured relationships in that regard and having them show up at my house uninvited late at night.

[Millie de Chirico]

So, wait.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So you're. You said multiple. Multiple. Sorry, only one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Only one person showed up at my house. But I've had multiple gay friendships. I had two friendships that turned into one in high school and one in college that turned into something else and had to break off those relationships.

[Millie de Chirico]

Was there any flirty? Wordy? Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, there was none. Well, I was just gonna say I related to it in the sense that in those relationships, I was. I. You know, they didn't know a secret about me, like Cate Blanchett, who's having an affair with a child, you know? But I would be in situations where I always owed them, or particularly one where it was like I was always. I'd done something wrong in their eyes, and I felt like I always owed them. And I was kind of trapped in situations where I was hanging, like, sort of forced to hang out with them because I felt like I owed them, you know, There was a lot of manipulation in that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. That is so dark and fucked up. Damn. That is a. That is a deeply interesting, fascinating road.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was gonna ask you, were you ever in love with a teacher when you were, like, in high school or even college?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, that's interesting. I was never in love with a teacher. No. I think I had, you know, little crushes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

But, you know, I would. I was. No, I didn't. I never had, like, strong feelings. Did you? For any of your teachers?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I. I had a huge crush on my French. He wasn't even really a teacher. He was really, like, a teacher's aide. I had a huge crush on my French teacher's aide when I was in high school. And really, it was because he. I came into school one day, it was like, the beginning of the semester and, you know, when you're in French. Did you take French and.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I only took Spanish.

[Millie de Chirico]

Spanish. Well, I took French. I think it's probably the same where basically you enter the classroom and it's like, only the language. You're not supposed to speak English at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I remember, you know, he came in, was like, I miss your blah, blah, blah, blah. And like, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then he, like, walked around, and then when he came to me, I said my name on Francais. And then he was like, you know, Ben. Oui, oui, oui. And then he literally leaned into my ear and said, I really like your Smith's T shirt. Yikes. And it blew my fucking brain apart. That's all you needed to do.

[Casey O'Brien]

When I was.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, when I was in high school, if you liked a band that I liked, it was like the currency was. I mean, it was like a million dollar bill. Like, I just was like, sure, I want to know you, and you have to be in my life. I just wanted to be understood so badly. I think that I just wanted. But then it became. We became buddies, basically.

[Casey O'Brien]

When he says that, that opens a whole universe to you, where you're like, who is this guy? He's everything. Like, it just opens him up to you, you know, like. And I. You know, I. In high school, I think I had a little crush on my Spanish teacher. She was too. She was like 24.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, this. Mine was too. He's like 25, 26.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I. If she had leaned in to my ear and said, nice Garden State sweatshirt. I didn't have a Garden State sweatshirt, but if it was something like that, I would have. I would have. It would have. It would have sent me into an alternate dimension because it's like the te.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like the. For. There's so many levels. It's like breaking the fourth French wall. Which is insane. But also a teacher liking any band, you know, let alone a band like the Smiths. And then it just became this thing where, like, after class I would. We would talk. And he was into, like, alternative music because he was 20 fucking 6 years old and this was the 90s, and he was in a band himself and all this shit. And I was just like, I love him. He, like, was super nice to me. We'll get to this when we talk about Donnie Darko, by the way. He was super nice to me in spite of me being such a fucking horrible hag in high school. And I was in love with him. But, you know, he Never. We never had a Notes on a Scandal relationship.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, that's good to hear. Wow. Fabulous. Well, Millie, we must move on. We have to talk about Donnie Darko. Oh well, we must close up the film diary. Just close it. We must close it up.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like EFTs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for informational purposes only and is not investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures hey, this is.

[Millie de Chirico]

US Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

And I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Millie de Chirico]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Casey O'Brien]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Millie de Chirico]

So when it came to getting the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Millie de Chirico]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Orangetheory Fitness)]

Ready to change your Life for just $2 a day, Orangetheory Fitness delivers one hour workouts that combine strength and cardio to help you burn fat, build muscle and feel unstoppable. Right now, get a full month of unlimited classes for just $62. Don't wait. This offer ends soon. Visit orangetheory.com or your local studio and start your transformation today. Offer ends January 31, 2026. New members only. Premier Membership Performance Monitor and monthly billing required. Discount applies to first month only. Other terms apply. See Studio for details.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, moving on. It's time for our main discussion. Donnie Darko, Director's Cut from 2004. This was directed and written by Richard Kelly. More on him later. I would say the genre of this movie, it's a lot of genres. It's a coming of age film. It's a, I would say a horror, a sci fi.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure, sure, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

All those things. Some of the themes, you know, mental illness, high school crap, post Reagan 80s. A lot of famous people in this movie. I was kind of shocked watching it again. I was like, holy shit. Drew Barrymore is in this. Holy shit. Noah Wiley's in this. Holy shit. Patrick Swayze's in this. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Also Seth Rogen is his first film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Seth Rogen.

[Millie de Chirico]

And so this. Yeah, this was Seth Rogen's first film. And here's the weird thing about it now. So if you like look up the movie, he's billed very high in the film. When I'm like, he has like three.

[Casey O'Brien]

Lines, he's barely in it.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's what I mean.

[Casey O'Brien]

So that's interesting. Also, there's a young Ashley Tisdale in this movie, if you know who she's in. High School Musical.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, also the guy that plays the bully, the. His name. Oh, Alex Greenwald. He was in the band. What band was he in? Phantom Planet. He was, huh?

[Casey O'Brien]

Whoa. I saw Phantom Planet in concert last year.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, he. That was Jason Schwarzman's band.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. Jason Schwarzman is no longer in the band.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, well, back. So. But, but back in the day he would have been in the band, right? 2001.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Wow. Fabulous. What a great tidbit there. Famous quotes. I feel like there's been a meme of this movie where the therapist asks Donnie, did you make any friend or. Donnie says, I made a new friend. The therapist says, real or imaginary? And he says, imaginary. That's been kind of memeified.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. That's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, what's your personal connection to this movie? I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

I. I remember when this movie came out, I was straight up shithead phase, college film school. I knew that it was an indie movie. Like, that's the thing is that if I remember correctly, because this was happening kind of all over the place in the, I would say early 2000s. There was a rash of movies that were coming out that were sort of like geared towards college aged kids. The marketing was definitely being sold to us, to people of my age group, but I could never figure out if it was an indie movie or if it was a, you know, like a studio film. It Was kind of like, it seemed to me they were like studio films, but they were being made for like, indie film audiences. Right? Yeah, I would. I would put like Napoleon Dynamite and like Rushmore and all these like, movies into this category.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't think this movie is as good as any of the movies you just said, but I would say, no, I'm sorry, the movie I'm about to say, but the Boondock Saints. Yeah, I would also put into that category.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. It was kind of like. I feel like the marketing of film became a lot more insidious in this era where they were basically like being like, well, we're gonna, you know, this movie was made with a lot of money, but we're gonna make it like, cool and like hip and like, it was just the hipsterification of commercial films.

[Casey O'Brien]

Requiem for Requiem for a Dream. Is it Requiem of a Dream for a Durindian? Yeah, also.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it was kind of like the waiting moments of like the 90s American independent movement that was kind of now being kind of co opted by the major studios and stuff, like in a more pronounced way. Right. Than it was in the 90s. So I was kind of a little confused by Donnie Dark because I'm like, is this like a famous. There's so many famous people in this movie. What independent director gets to work with all these fucking.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, great.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, it was confounding to me. But anyway, I remember seeing this movie with like, pretty much all guys, like all the guys that I knew, and they really loved it. They loved it. And so to me, I think I started noticing that this movie, I sensed that it was a very important movie for dudes and. And dudes in my life and people that I know. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

What about you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, yes, it was. I would say this was. I saw this. I had mentioned this at the top. I saw. I seen it before, but I saw the Director's Cut at a midnight screening in 2005 on Halloween. And this. When I saw this movie, I feel like I thought like, this is the most important movie ever made. I just felt like it was like, so such a rich text. There was so much depth to it. I thought tonally, which I still think this way, I think tonally it is a very intriguing film and it feels unlike most movies and I'd never quite seen a movie quite like it before. I was also really inspired by the director, Richard Kelly. Not because this is like my. Was my favorite movie of all time or that he was my favorite director, but he wrote and directed this movie. When he was 26 and he went to USC. And I feel like that planted a seed in my head in high school that was like, I want to have the exact same career as Richard Kelly. I want to go to usc and then I'll make my first feature with Drew Barrymore immediately thereafter. And so he was kind of a model for me of how to be a filmmaker for what your career could look like. And so I did apply to usc. Didn't get in, but, yeah. So, I mean, he was kind of a big figure in my life back then. And it's sort of interesting because he hasn't made a movie since 2009.

[Millie de Chirico]

So why is that?

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know. I mean, I think Southland Tales. Have you seen Southland Tales?

[Millie de Chirico]

Never saw it.

[Casey O'Brien]

That is. That was such a big flop, and that was a bigger budget movie. And then he made another movie called the Box, which I never saw with Cameron Diaz, but I don't know. I think he's got big ideas. And his movies are kind of messy. And I mean that in a complimentary way. I like that his movies are kind of, like, messy.

[Millie de Chirico]

But can I read this quote that I see on Wikipedia right now, please? By the way, I'm just browsing Wikipedia, not like. Like I'm doing hard research.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

In 2016, filmmaker Kevin Smith said of Kelly, quote, he is insanely creative and is not unlike Christopher Nolan. But Nolan wound up in the Warner Brothers system, where he got special handling and he got a lot of money to make huge art films like Inception. Richard can be one of our greatest filmmakers. He is right now. But just a lot of people don't realize it. He's still a kid, and someone needs to Nolan that kid.

[Casey O'Brien]

How do you feel about that quote?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, that's. I mean, I guess maybe speaking to what you just said, right? It's like, okay, so here's somebody who seems extremely creative. I mean, that's one thing you cannot deny about Donnie Darko. I mean, especially now that I've watched this director's cut that has all this extra stuff in it. I'm like, oh, this is like an entire mythology and world that he built around this movie. And it's very creative. I mean, you know, a little dense at times, but it's, like, interesting. But, yeah, I mean, I guess it makes me. It makes you do wonder, like, okay, he hasn't made a movie since 2009. I mean, he's only directed three movies and, yeah, wrote four. So it's kind of that thing of like, okay, for somebody Who's. I don't know, just seems obviously very interesting when someone who can make a big movie like Johnny Darker that's like really cult appreciated. And also, you know, it's just kind of beloved by people of my generation, certainly. Why he doesn't work all the time, I don't know, There just seems to be.

[Casey O'Brien]

It seems kind of crazy, like he didn't get thrown a TV show during like the Netflix money spending heyday. Yeah, I don't know. Huh.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I bet he'll make another movie at some point. He's not that old.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, he's like my age. Right. He's like, yeah, a couple years old.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's interesting that someone who gets off to such a hot start, like he made a big movie when he was 26, you think he would have kept going.

[Millie de Chirico]

But yeah, maybe that was his Jeff Buckley's grace. And then, not that he died, obviously Richard Kelly's still alive. But you know, in that way that's kind of like you make this one huge movie and then. Can you make more? Question mark.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right, well, I'm gonna get into the synopsis here, but I must say it's not totally in order because this is such a. This is a bit of a confusing movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wouldn't you say? Yeah. So here we go. First part of the film. It's October 2, 1988, in Middlesex, Virginia. Teenager Donnie Darko, played by Jake Gyllenhaal. He's a troubled teen with mental problems and he might have paranoid schizophrenia, but it's never quite determined what is quite wrong with him. But he wakes up after a night of sleepwalking on an abandoned road overlooking a valley. First shot of the movie. And we find out that he frequently wanders around at night. And so he's gone out of his house pretty frequently at night. And his parents are like, where do you go? But one night, a jet engine falls out of the sky and crashes into his house, right into his room, but he's not there. He's out wandering. So he's fine. No one is hurt, but no one knows where this jet engine came from. Strange. Also around this time, he starts seeing visions of Frank, who is a man dressed in a horrifying rabbit bunny costume. And he tells Donnie that the world is going to end on Halloween in 28 days. So we watched the director's cut and there's this whole intro sequence where Donnie is biking around and there's like all these slow motion shots of his family and him biking and stuff. And in the original version, it's the Killing Moon by Echo and the Bunnymen playing. But in the director's cut, it's Never Tear Us Apart by inxs. And I much prefer the INXS song in this sequence. And so that's why I kind of wanted to watch the director's cut. I was excited to watch.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, let's talk about that, because this movie, I think, is beloved for the soundtrack. I certainly think that's why a lot of, like, people my age love it. Because, first of all, this movie takes place in 1988.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right.

[Millie de Chirico]

Late 80s.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

More about that in a second, by the way. But the soundtrack is very, like, error appropriate. Right. And so all the music cues that I remembered from this movie, they're so memorable. And then when I saw. And I watched the director's cut, and I was like, wait a second. All the music is different or it's different in different places.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, I remember them coming down the stairs at the Halloween party to under the Milky Way by the church. And that did not happen. That the church song played in a different. And then I started thinking, am I misremembering it? Because it just felt like all the music was in different places or they swapped out songs. Do you know if that's true?

[Casey O'Brien]

I. The only. The major one I know of is the Never Tear Us Apart replacement. I don't know about the other music cues, if they moved stuff around like that, because Love Will Tear Us Apart by Joy Division plays, I think, in the stair section or that plays in the house.

[Millie de Chirico]

But the Killing Moon, that was. That was supposed to be the intro song, but it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, that was the. That was the interesting. In the original theatrical.

[Millie de Chirico]

They play it again at a certain. It's just at a different place.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I did not mind the NXS song because I actually love that In Excess song.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I will say the church song threw me off. I. I was waiting for that moment. But I'm glad that they kept Head Over Heels. Right. That was.

[Casey O'Brien]

That is.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, they have. There's some really memorable music sequences. And that Head Over Heels one is maybe the most famous, where Donnie's walking into the school for the first time and we're kind of like, going through the hallways while Head Over Heels by Tears for Fears plays. That really not. When I. When I saw that for the first time, that really knocked my socks off.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I feel like. I feel like the whole. I don't know, now seeing the directors kind of having, like, this massive Mandela effect about the original movie. Like, I'm like, now, I don't know what was in the original movie, what is what. But I gotta say, just generally. Yeah, that kind of threw me off. I'm not sure. I don't. I don't know. I'm not sure I liked the director's cut for that, the music being different. So, yeah, there was that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, that's the problem with director's cuts in general. It's kind of like. I sort of think director's cuts are usually worse than the theatrical version.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Should we have watched theatrical and not.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I. No, but I prefer. I think the director's cut of Donnie Darko. And I feel like this was a very big deal, this director's cut. This is, like. I don't know. I feel like it's hard for me to, like, think of another movie where, like, the director's cut was, like, held in such a steam, you know, The Snyder cut, I guess.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, don't mess with my music, man. That's what I like the movie for. I think the music is one of the best parts of the movie. But, you know, so now I'm also screwed up.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're introduced to a character, Chita, which I see you have a note about.

[Millie de Chirico]

I wasn't sure if we wanted to wait for this next section, because I have, like. Because so much of this movie is obviously about high school stuff, as you mentioned, high school crap. And, you know, I think it's, like a private. Is it a Catholic school that they go to?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's what's confusing. It feels like they're intentionally leaving God out. There's no, like, Christian stuff.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, but they wear uniforms.

[Casey O'Brien]

They do wear uniforms. And it was shot at Loyola High School, so there are crosses around the building. Yeah, but. Yeah, it's a private school.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. So let's just say private school. Like, a lot of these kids that he goes to school with, a lot of these boys that he goes to school with are terrifying. Like the aforementioned Alex Greenwald, bully character and his buddy, Seth. Seth Rogen. They're, like, terrifying people.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And even. Just his, like. Even Donnie Darko's, like, bus stop buddy, so he gets sent to the bus stop with his little sister. And there's a crew of people there. These two, like, dumb dudes that are just gross and terrible. And. And then there's this character, Cherita, whom is a bigger girl, Asian, and is kind of like a loner. She wears earmuffs in a lot of the movie. Just. Just, like, the School nerd, right? And when I tell you, and I thought this back in 2001, Trita is I, and I am Trita. I'm telling you. Like, I was so triggered by her back in the day. And the moment she came up, I was like, that's me, bitch. This is me. If you want to know my plights when I was in middle school and high school, that's me. Like, I am fairly certain I actually had a boy in middle school scream, go back to China, bitch. In my face. Like, I'm not joking about that. They definitely call me Chinese girl. Like, I remember them saying to me, chinese girl. Just, like, as an insult. I'm not Chinese, by the way. Just throwing that out there. But it's. It's again, like the bullying, the bully male culture of, like, high school kids, especially in the 80s, was brutal. Holy. And it was just, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I'm sure it's an accurate representation. Like, it is an accurate representation because you're saying you experience something very similar.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it does make definitely Sharita as we. The movie progresses, which, as it turns out, she's in love with Donnie Darko because he likes. Was nice to her once or whatever and writes his name on her. On her folder. Yeah, that's me. I'm telling you. I'm sure, you know, like, come on. What else do you want me to say? That's my girl.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, it is accurate, but it's also like, did this need to be in this movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, of course, I don't know why it's, you know, I mean, the device to maybe make him a nice guy or something. I don't know why.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like, yeah, he was nice to trit us, so we know he's a good person. It's like, save the cat.

[Millie de Chirico]

Even though he's. He's running, he's sliming. He's. Even though Donnie Darko is out there sliming in his sleep.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyway, all right, so moving on. Donnie Darko, he meets Gretchen Ross, Jenna Malone, who's the new girl at school because on her first day of school, she comes into his classroom. And their teacher, Karen Pomeroy, played by Drew Barrymore, tells Gretchen, sit next to the boy she thinks is cutest. And she sits next to Donnie now. Well, let me finish what I'm about to say. So they start dating, and Frank, the bunny rabbit, keeps appearing to Donnie and telling him to do bad things. Donnie breaks the water main in the school and it floods. And he also tells Donnie to investigate time travel. He has something about time travel. We're also introduced to motivational speaker Jim Cunningham, played by Patrick Swayze, whose philosophies have kind of overtaken the school or the community. I should say back to the Drew Barrymore telling Gretchen to sit next to the boy she thinks is cutest. What did you think of this? This little scene? Do you think Drew Barrymore's character should have been fired for doing something?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. I was like, where are the ethics in this school?

[Casey O'Brien]

My God, I feel like that was so crazy. And it is sort of an. It is sort of emblematic of the tone of this movie. I found watching it this time, I had more trouble with the tone because sometimes it's really trying to be, like, funny, and then other times it's supposed to be, like, real emo, goth kind of vibes. And I felt like those two ends were. Didn't always meet, you know? Did you have any trouble when watching it this time? Or, like, any thoughts about that? The tone.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, so repeat that. You're saying, I just feel like this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Movie, like, there are some parts that are, like, really trying to be funny.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, like, the whole Patrick Swayze thing is pretty funny.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And outrageous. But then it's also, like, trying to be this sort of sincere. The movie's trying to be this sincere kind of, like, goth, emo type movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I just feel like it's sort of. It's sort of two tones that don't. Can't coexist very easily.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I. I think you're right about that. The. The comedy, again, I think it's like something like the Chorita character. I could understand, like, where these things were coming from, which is basically like it's trying to be coming of age, which means that there's obviously, like, little moments of funniness or calls to, like, certain archetypes in, like, 80s school culture type of thing. But then, yeah, I was trying to be serious, and then it was just dark, like, thrillery. It was kind of. The tone of it is very strange. I will say to. To this point, though, there's also something happening where one of the things I do not like about this movie is that it's clear. You know, obviously we've just said the movie takes place in 1988 in Virginia, but it feels like it doesn't go all the way in into, like, the production design and the costumes and, like, the Drew Barrymore character for all her unethical teaching abilities. Like, I know she was a producer on the film. Like, I think this was produced by her production company, Donnie Darko.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think she's pretty responsible for getting this movie made.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean she looked like the way she looked in 2001. Like I was alive in 1988 and 1989. I was in school. My teachers did not look like Drew Barrymore with her hair parted down the middle kind of wearing this, you know, I don't know, brown that like it didn't. Her outfits and her look were not late 80s at all. To me. She kind of looked like again like too modern. And there were moments of the movie that didn't feel error. Appropriate at all. All like. But then there would, there would be certain things like the bully's hair in a mullet. You know, there were like these little pop ins of like 88, but the whole thing did not look that way to me. It looked almost kind of too modern. Yeah. And I don't, I don't know, it threw me off. Like that's the one thing I do not like about this movie is it doesn't commit to the period ness.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean it's, it feels like like the parents do not feel like 1988 parents. They feel like. No 2001 parents.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's what I'm saying. The. The way that they look does not.

[Casey O'Brien]

And talked and. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And let me tell you, like I would say, I would argue that the late 80s was so ostentatious when it came to the looks. That was. The high. People don't get this about the 80s. They believe that the early 80s and the late 80s is the same shit. It's not. Okay. Early 80s was much more informed by 70s clothes. And then when you talk about shoulder pads and giant aqua Net hairstyles and like the Melanie Griffith and Working Girl. That was so late 80s. That was not. Yeah, you, you were not.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was even early 90s.

[Millie de Chirico]

Exactly. So like a teacher in 1981 is not going to look like a teacher in 1989. It's just, you know, like a total. It's like a totally different style change. And so that's why I was like, there's no way that there's like the late 80s was so unsubtle and it was huge. All these people would had permed big fucking hair with shoulder pads. Drew Barrymore would be wearing the like the fucking easy spirit pumps with the dark pantyhose and her like giant shoulder pad suits. Like there. She's not looking like that. I don't care who the fuck you are. And like half these people don't dress air appropriate. That's my one gripe about Donnie.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, it's not era appropriate either. It was very in. In the early 2000s to wear an undershirt with an under button shirt. Like, to have an under white undershirt.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, that was very common. And I feel like that was not in the 80s.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Like, Jake Gillard hall looked like a 2001 kid. He did not look like an 88 kid. Yeah, sorry.

[Casey O'Brien]

You don't have to apologize, Millie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Anyway, please. And, like. And that's the thing, too. I will say this. I said this earlier, but, like, this whole era of, like, the early 2000s movies I was getting, when I was watching this movie again, I was like, okay, I totally thought this happened in a different movie. Again, I'm having this, like, Mandela effect about this director's cut. Like, I'm like, for some reason, I thought Patrick Swayze was in Saved and he wasn't. He was in Donnie Darko. Do you remember the movie saved from 2004?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But I can see why you would think there's kind of a lot of scenes in Saved where there's, like a preacher or somebody in the front and high school students are yelling at them.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I could see why you conflated the two.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then for some reason, I totally believed that the whole Sparkle Motion line and the whole Sparkle Motion thing, which we'll get to later, was in Napoleon Dynamite and wasn't.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, the Happy Hands Club was in Napoleon Dynamite. The Happy Hands Club. And that was the Sign Language Club that also did, like, dances. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then Napoleon Dynamite does a dance right at the end.

[Casey O'Brien]

He does. He does a dance.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, so there is a performance. See, now I'm getting confused. All these movies are running together to me. Sorry.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's okay. That's okay. Okay, moving on. Donnie asks his teacher, Dr. Kenneth Monitoff, played by Noah Wiley, about time travel. So Dr. Kenneth gives Donnie a book, the Philosophy of Time Travel, written by this local recluse named Roberta Sparrow, AKA Grandma Death. That's what they all call her, Grandma Death. And the strange elements in this philosophy of Time travel book kind of coincide with the weird things that are happening to Donnie. He's learning all about dimensions, portals, time travel, wormholes. And in the director's cut, we actually see snippets of the book, all the, like, sort of strange portal talk. And I don't even want to get into it because it's confounding, but we learn a little bit more about it.

[Millie de Chirico]

They did not have the chapters in the book original.

[Casey O'Brien]

Correct. They did not have the chapters in the original. So I don't know. It was interesting watching this. I know you haven't seen Southland Tales, but Southland Tales is very similar to Donnie Darko in the sense it's a lot of different dimension portal talk, but it's not the same. It's kind of confounding. He made a movie that touches upon such similar elements as Donnie Darko for his second movie. And Southland Tales people love has a cult following. That movie did not work for me. I think I need to rewatch it because when I saw it, I found it. I didn't connect with it in the way that Donnie Darko did. So anyways, what did you think of all this sci fi time travel stuff?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I mean, again, I did not clock pretty much any of it back when I first saw this movie. I think I remember it being much more of a coming of age movie than it like, to me, I was like, oh, this is like Ordinary People with Jake Gyllenhaal. I did not realize that there was this whole sci fi element to it. I really, I mean, I knew that he was having delusions, but I saw it more in the framework of just his own mental health struggles and not it being this whole other component. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I, I, it does, but it is, I feel like there's, watching it this time, I was like, damn, there's so much sci fi stuff. It's mostly sci fi.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and that's what I was kind of thinking. Like, I was like, is this, I saw that on the DVD of the Director's Cut. There was the book, the Philosophy of the actual Roberta Sparrow book. Right. And it basically sort of gives all the information about the idea of what the sci fi elements or the plot elements around the whole time travel thing is, the whole like tangential universe, whatever, versus the kind of like primary first universe and all the like wormhole that they talk about and the, or the orbs and everything. Once I orbs once I kind of went into my research hole about that. Like I went online after I saw the movie, obviously, and I was like, what did I just watch? And then I read, I read, I read about it and I was kind of like, okay, I, I can see how that's interesting. And I feel like it obviously takes a creative person to kind of come up with that mythology or that lore or whatever. I feel though, that that when you bring it into the other movie that I saw, the first movie that I saw in, like, 2001. Now I'm like, there's a lot going on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And it kind of feels like the director's cut over complicated the movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Does that make sense? People complain that he explained it too much in the director's cut. Whereas, like, in the Donnie Darko original one, I think it's easier to just be like, I don't know, time travel stuff, whatever. Who gives a shit? It's kind of there. But, like, in Director's Cut, you're, like, having to, like, be faced with it more.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, well. And, like, weirdly enough, I feel like this movie, whatever it became, like, in the director's cut, it's now, like, what they do in all movies. I mean, there's like. It's giving, like, Stranger Things. It's giving. I saw the TV glow. It's giving a lot of, like, other. That kind of, like, young kids in this, like, American environment, but also outside of it, in this other. Like, I was like. I started thinking about weapons when I saw this movie. Like, I was like, oh, now this is, like, the thing you do, which is that you take, like, suburban kids or just normal kids, and then you put them in this, like, weird science fiction, experimental universe.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's so interesting. The Stranger Things connection. I totally see that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Do you know what I'm saying?

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. That's a really astute observation.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, thanks, buddy. I just. I'm just saying, though, like. But in. When you watch. When you see it, though, in Donnie Darko, I'm like, yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot going on to be like, oh, we have to worry about his family and the events happening to him in this primary universe and his school and his doctor and his, you know, girlfriend. But then also now wormholes and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, and there's a fucking wormhole coming.

[Millie de Chirico]

Out of the Grandma Deaths. And, you know, the fucking whole vibe where I'm just like, damn, it's a lot going on. And the movie is like, the fucking director's cut is, like, over two hours, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

It is. Yeah. It's a beefy. That's a beefy text.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's a fucking long movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is.

[Millie de Chirico]

It is. All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Donnie and Gretchen go on a date to see Evil Dead. During the movie, Gretchen falls asleep, and Frank comes back and Donnie says, take your mask off. And Frank does. And guess what? It's James Duvall. Hottie Boombilotti. James Duvall, who you may have seen in some Gregorocki movies like Nowhere the Doom Generation. I think he's in Totally Fucked Up. He's also in Independence Day, also a Wazian.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's get serious.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's a waysian. He's also in a movie I love called May, and I believe that's from the year 2000. He's great. I was delighted to see him. But his eye is shot out, his eyes bleeding, and we'll find out why later. But Frank says, donnie, you gotta go burn down Jim Cunningham's house, which is Patrick Swayze's house. And so he goes and does it, and guess what? Jim Cunningham, the motivational speaker, has a bunch of kiddie porn, as they say in the movie, and he gets arrested. Also during this time, Donny's youngest sister is in a dance group called Sparkle Motion, and they get to be on Ed McMahon's star search, so they're flying to LA to compete. So that leaves Donnie and his older sister Elizabeth, played by Maggie Gyllenhaal, at home to throw a party on Halloween, which is also the same day that Frank told Donnie that the. The world is ending. Any thoughts about this section?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, listen. Many. Number one, I love how Gretchen falls asleep to the Evil Dead within minutes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Of the movie starting to.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I mean, I guess that is what allows Donnie to sneak out and do his slime crimes. But it's like, you know, I also love the idea of, like, going to see a movie with your boyfriend, like the Evil Dead, and just falling asleep. Like, it's so funny. And also, they're at the Arrow, did you notice that?

[Casey O'Brien]

In Santa Monica? Yep. I love the Arrow Theater. Been there many times.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Great theater.

[Millie de Chirico]

I love it, too. This part is where I start to, like, kind of, like, lose the plot, literally. Because I'm like, okay. The idea that Frank is a real dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. That is.

[Millie de Chirico]

Confusing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Confusing.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I'm. Listen. Loving that it's James Duvall, as we've all talked about. Hottie Boom Bolotti.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Still hot, by the way. I saw him do a talk with Gregor Rocky and Richard Linklater in Austin, like, maybe two years ago.

[Casey O'Brien]

Dream. Blunt rotation right there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. That's like. It was. It made me. My heart hurt for my generation. But they. But him. The idea that he manifests as an actual person. I'm just like, this is. I. I don't know what to think anymore. Like, what the hell?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it is confusing. Like, we meet him again later, the real Frank, and you're kind of like, well, they're not. They're not like the same person.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, right. Because the eye, it's Eyeball trauma.

[Casey O'Brien]

Come on. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Getting. Getting a little esoteric for my. My ass.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's getting a little out there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. But I will say that this part, I mean, I think a lot of people remember Sparkle Motion. I remember the line. What is it? I. I'm doubting your commitment to Sparkle Motion being a line.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I'm. I'm starting to doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, yes. That was said ad nauseam back when this movie came out. Maybe that's the famous line from this movie. Having said all I said about the anachronism of this movie, I will say Sparkle Motion dance routine to Duran Duran's Notorious is the most authentically late 80s thing to happen in this entire movie. The dance moves in particular. I have videos of me from the late 80s where I am doing the Roger Rabbit and the Running man in the same fucking way these girls are doing it. I also entered a lip sync contest in 1988, and I did not wear a sparkly outfit, but I definitely did some moves like this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now, what was the song? And is there any video of this?

[Millie de Chirico]

There is. There is a video of it. I have a VHS tape that I could probably digitize.

[Casey O'Brien]

Digitize that much. It's like my acting reel. We gotta. Yeah, get it on the socials.

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't know how I conjure up the confidence to do shit like this sometimes, but, like, I entered this lip sync contest in my neighborhood at the rec center. I did the song out of the Blue by Debbie Gibson, which was off of the out of the Blue album that was very popular back then. I did this shit alone. I, like, went to my parents and said, hi, can you, like, sign me up for this lip syncing contest? It's probably $25. Write a check to these people, and I want to enter it. And I'm going to perform alone on stage. And I definitely did not win. I mean, there was so many, so many better, more creative. Like, there was an entire performance to Nightmare on My street, which was the DJ Jazzy Jeff and Fresh Print song about Nightmare on Elm street that is now, I guess, lost in the ether. I don't know what happened to that song. The. The kids that performed it literally dressed like Freddy Krueger. I mean, it was phenomenal. It was in the context of this lip sync contest, it was phenomenal. And here I am being like, here's my little Sparkle Motion moves alone on stage. So anyway, I was a fucking flop. But I. But I will say, knowing that this was happening in this movie, I Was like, oh, I was there, baby. I could have easily been in Sparkle Motion.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

Big time.

[Casey O'Brien]

When I was in seventh and eighth grade, our grade school would put on kind of a variety show. And a big part of it was the lip syncs. That was a big. You know. And when I was in seventh grade, I was a little shorty. I was like a little guy. And I was like, it would be funny if I did Sonny and Cher with Anna, who is like six feet tall in seventh grade.

[Millie de Chirico]

Cute.

[Casey O'Brien]

And we did it, and it was a big hit.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, that would have been fucking phenomenal.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was really funny because I was, like, so much shorter than her. Aw, that's great.

[Millie de Chirico]

That was so good. Aw, See? I wish I would have done something like that. I would have killed.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, let's get to the ending here. Let's wrap this up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's go.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it's the big Halloween party, and we find out that Donnie's sister Elizabeth's boyfriend is named Frank, who is. What does that mean? We also find out that Donnie's mom and sister are taking a flight back to LA because they did well at Star Search Ed McMahon Star Search. Donnie is then. I can't remember exactly how this happens, but he's kind of, like, summoned to visit Grandma Death because the world is coming to an end. He has to talk to this time travel expert, I guess. So he and his buddies and Gretchen bike over there in a very ET esque biking scene. And they go inside and they discover that the bullies, one of whom is Seth Rogen, they're robbing Grandma Death, and they start fighting them. The fight moves outside. Gretchen, Jenna Malone character, is thrown into the street and run over by a car.

[Millie de Chirico]

Fucking crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then out of the car walks Frank, the real Frank in his bunny costume. And he's like, what's going on, man? And Donnie shoots him with a gun in the eye. So that's how he got the eye injury. Oh, boy. Okay. Also, while this is happening, Donnie's mom and little sister are on the plane. The plane loses the jet engine and starts to crash. Donnie takes Gretchen's body to the spot where the movie began, on the abandoned road. And then a portal opens up, I guess, and we go back in time and the jet engine comes with Donnie, I guess. And this time we kind of go back in time, but Donnie is in his room this time when the jet engine falls on his house, killing Donnie. And the movie ends with Gretchen biking past the house, and a boy asks her if she knew Donnie Darko. And since we've gone back in time before she met him, she says, no, I don't. She doesn't know who that is. And that's the end. Did I miss anything?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, dude, you would have been easy to. But you didn't. I think you're good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I just don't know what to think of this. You know, when I watched it in high school, like, I said, I thought it was, like, so important.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

A very important movie. And then I think I watched it again ten years ago, and I was like, this movie's dumb.

[Millie de Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then when I watched it this time, I was like, no, I like this movie. This is a good movie. So I'm somewhere in between it being dumb and it being the most important movie of all time. And I don't know. It's just. There's a lot going on.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, I don't want to, like, lose all of the male friends that I have in my life because they're actually kind of loose. Like, there's a couple of shitty guys. But I most part, like, I'm. I'm down with my guy friends. Yeah. And I'm sorry if I'm gonna say this, and it's gonna mean that you guys aren't gonna be able to talk to me for a while or whatever, but, like, there's always a movie that exists in every generation that is, like, supposed to be this, like, huge stumper that, like, everybody loves because it's, like, really textured and there's a lot going on and all this stuff. But, you know, when you scope out of it, you're a little like, okay, yeah. Are we really going nutso about something like this? And, like, I feel like this is a movie like this, and I'm not. Like I said, I. I can say that while enjoying it, generally. Yeah. And I. But I. But, you know, I. I'm gonna give you a pure example. So I saw that there was this little mini documentary that was made about the cult of Donnie Darko of, like, a bunch of people getting together, talking about why they love this movie so much. I found it on YouTube. It seems like it's only British people, so I think it was made by British people, which I guess has its own kind of interesting to it. But I was like. Literally, it was just everybody being like, oh, I saw this movie. I was blown away. I love this movie so much. I was completely blown away. This movie, like, really made me think it was so amazing. And I was like, really? How long is this documentary? Is this all we're Gonna what? What is it about it? Is that what's blowing? You explain it to me. Explain why it is a mind blowing movie to you. Because I watched it anyway. I feel like saying that, but it's like I kind of want to go to my friends and be like, listen, I get that in 2001 or 2004, when you were like 26 or how old were you? 10.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me, I was 13 when it came out.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. This would have blown my mind at.

[Casey O'Brien]

13, but I saw it when I was 15, I think, for the first time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure. So it means a lot to people like these types of movies, like, because you think, wow, what a insane film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But then you, like, you can't possibly continue to think like.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think we've touched upon this with other movies in the past. Like movies that were near and dear to you when you were a teenager. And then you watch them and you're like, I've changed. I think that this was a really original movie with a really original tone and I really like it. And I think it's great that it exists. And I wish we had more movies coming out like Donnie Darko all the time. And I feel like this was an era of very young filmmakers getting their shot, you know, like kids in their 20s. And I don't think we get that as much nowadays, like young, young filmmakers getting a lot of money to make something interesting. So I don't know, it kind of made me nostalgic. But I also, I did enjoy the movie and I think it's a really creative film. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, you know, maybe I'll pare down a little bit the criticism there, but I will say that, like. Yeah, I mean, as a thought experiment from somebody who has not made anything before, it is, you know, obviously like got a vision and got a lore that they want to establish that it's. I think it's interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it feels like it's kind of doing a lot and it feels like it's either gotta like really push in that direction or and like shave off some of the other stuff maybe. And I think it would probably be because, like when, like I said, I think maybe like when I first saw it, it felt more of a coming of age movie about a teenager who was experiencing psychosis.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, and then now seeing the director's cut, knowing it's more about this actual other thing, I feel like maybe that is more interesting ultimately. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And they should make that part of it, like leave all the other stuff on the table, like just go with that more get rid of the time travel stuff. No, get like. Yeah, I'm saying just make it all about that and. And get rid of the whole high school sparkle motion, you know, 80s nostalgia throwback. Just make it more of your other thing that you actually really wanted to make.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah. Yeah, there are a lot of ideas in this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, a lot of them. Doesn't need. Does it need to be an 80s movie ultimately? Like, no. I mean, it's like, it doesn't need to. It does. I don't know. It just.

[Casey O'Brien]

There was like, a lot of, like, Reagan stuff where I was like, Dukakis. Baby Dukakis.

[Millie de Chirico]

I remember when Dukakis ran Olympia Dukakis, cousin Michael Dukakis.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was Donnie Darko. I enjoyed watching this again. Now it is time for our segment, Gripes, Gropes and Grits. Gripes, gropes and Grits. Gripes, gropes and Grits. I got something that's making me upset. Okay, first one up is from Leela.

[Millie de Chirico]

Grope.

[Casey O'Brien]

Regarding your recent episode on Zodiac, which I saw it released and rewatched before listening to your show. Yes. I loved it both times. I wanted to give a film grope parentheses with permission to John Carroll Lynch. Millie said he was so good as Leigh Allen that she finds it hard to see him as anything but creepy. But he was so good in this film and in his other roles, many of them evil baddies that. I understand where she's coming from. However, I had the chance to meet him at an HBO screening of from the Earth to the moon back in 1998, and he was extremely nice, good humored and down to earth. I remember him as an extremely upbeat guy. Now, that was nearly 30 years ago, but still, in many ways, he's, to me, like Tony Goldwyn is to Casey. Just wanted to pass it along, Leela. Isn't that nice?

[Millie de Chirico]

Of course, Leela, thank you very much for saying that. I mean, because when it comes down to it, I find that a lot of times the actors that have played these, like, really hardcore, like, villain type of roles are in real life, nothing but, like, baby koala bears. They're just like the sweetest, cutest people in the world. And they just. Actually, I gotta be honest, I love that shit. Like, I. I feel like it's great when you find out that somebody who plays like, the fucking, like, head of the Yakuza or something is, like, slicing people's throats, is, like, just like the sweetest, most gentlest, you know, grandpa or whatever, you know, I like. I Love that narrative. So I'm glad to know that he seemed co and down to earth because, I mean, I'm not saying that he's not. I just was like, he is so incredibly effective in Zodiac that it. I kind of think that way about Anthony Hopkins too, in Silence of the Lambs. Like, he's so good as Hannibal Lecter that it's like I can't even accept that he's in fucking Howard's End or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So remains of the day. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. Thank you, Leela. Thanks. What a great letter. Appreciate that. All right, Millie, I have a voicemail for you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's go. Hey, Millie and Casey, this is Valerie from Atlanta, Georgia. I am wondering what in your mind truly brings the difference between what makes it a TV show. A TV show versus a movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

A movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

I've heard you both recommend short, independent.

[Casey O'Brien]

Films that are like around an hour or less. And I'm thinking about episodes like in.

[Millie de Chirico]

The series Black Mirror, where they're kind of self contained within like an hour.

[Casey O'Brien]

Time frame or maybe even like the Twilight Zone.

[Millie de Chirico]

But what to you is the difference.

[Casey O'Brien]

Between a TV show and a movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Thanks so much. Love the show.

[Casey O'Brien]

An interesting question. Very interesting. Do you have any initial thoughts, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

It is confusing at this point because of streaming and how a lot of filmmakers have gone to the streaming world to make series. Right? Yeah. And also how a lot of movies that appear on streaming sometimes feel more like TV because of the nature of watching it on a TV versus they don't get theatrical releases. Right. Because in my mind, you know, obviously, I think in this podcast where cinephiles. We've been for a long time, you know, I can't easily break the notion that a movie is a movie because it's theatrical and shows up in movie theaters, and that a TV show is primarily on my TV and not in a movie theater. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

However, yeah, all that's gotten super complicated. I mean, I feel like time is probably the only real indicator, meaning a movie is in the region of an hour to three hours type of thing. I mean, just generally. And then a TV show has multiple parts. I don't know. Is that. Am I being stupid or am I. I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think it's a difficult question. And it has gotten more complicated, like you said, because of streaming. I think for the longest time, I think the only separation between a movie and a TV show was time, like you were saying. And TV shows used to be in a way that, like, I mean, the Difference is you get to stay with the characters for longer. So sometimes people compare TV to a book more than a movie because you get to spend so much time with these characters. But I think what's been happening lately, which is really confusing, is that there's a lot of these, like, short season kind of miniseries shows, like all the, like, premiere television shows. Like we're watching Pluribus right now, which is nine episodes and I'm only four episodes in. But I was like, this should have been a movie because like half, like half of the episodes we watched, nothing really happens.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Whereas like in movies now, when you watch a movie, it feels like there's much more urgency to get the whole story, get the whole arc in a certain amount of time. Where now TV shows really take their time to kind of like meander through these worlds and with these characters, they're not in any sort of rush. And I feel like TV used to be in more of a rush. There used to be more of an arc for each episode. I mean, it's still, I feel like there used to be like a beginning, middle and end of TV shows, like each episode was its own thing, whereas now they all kind of like mesh together in these nine episode sort of miniseries. TV shows just feel like long movies that should have had some of the time cut out of it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know, I'm kind of rambling there, but yeah, I. I don't know. It's. It's. It's a complicated question.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, I think there's obviously sort of like Academy rules and stuff. Like there are Emmy rules and things. You know, like these kind of like awards based rules for like what can be considered a movie, what can be considered, you know, as Oscar, you know, in the running for the Oscars and Emmys and stuff. But yeah, I definitely think it's, it's gotten a lot more complicated now than it ever has been. And I think, I think you're right too. There are certain. There's definitely times where I watch things and I'm like, shit, could have been a movie and vice versa, where I think something could have been a TV show or something, you know. So, yeah, I feel like, like I.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just watched the last season of Stranger Things and there's so much of that show where it's like, let's try to figure this out. Oh, that didn't work. Let's try this. And I'm like, I feel like a lot of TV now is built in for people to look at their phones while watching Something because there's just like huge chunks of time where like nothing is happening really, that doesn't have any sort of urgency. But you're kind of like, you can kind of like half pay attention to. And so that's why for now, I feel like television shows feel very different than movies because you don't have to like actively pay attention to them like you do with movies.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, I kind of like going back to this heated rivalry thing. I mean, I kind of wondered that could have probably been a movie because even though that show is six episodes, they span a lot of time, like the whole thing. And I get that it's based on a book too, which adds another layer of complication to it, but I was like. And a lot of those episodes, it really was. There wasn't a shit ton of like plot progression beyond what was originally established. And I'm like, yeah, imagine if it was just like a two hour movie or like an hour 37 or something. And then like what kind of story could have been told? I mean, I don't know. I. I know that it's complicated because we just want people to make their art in the way that they want to make it.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yes, you know, well, I think that's the best we're gonna do.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's it.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's it. Millie, it's time for employees picks. Okay, I'll go first. I'm recommending another Jake Gyllenhaal vehicle. Jakey G. I like Jake Gyllenhaal and my wife is in love with him. I enjoyed this movie by denis Villeneuve from 2013 called Enemy. Did you ever see this movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

I did not.

[Casey O'Brien]

In fact, it's interesting and it's pretty trippy. And basically Jake Gyllenhaal plays a professor and he sees a movie where there's a guy that looks exactly like him, exactly like him. And he kind of becomes obsessed with finding this actor and figuring out who he is and how he's connected to him. And it's good, it's trippy and it's weird. So if you want to, you know, Donnie Darko's pretty trippy and it's got Jake Gyllenhaal and this one's pretty trippy. It's got Jake Gyllenhaal. So I thought it was a good staff pick and I enjoyed this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Excellent, excellent. So I'm going to suggest a movie from 2011 as my employee picked for this week. Sort of related. It's called we need to Talk about Kevin, directed by Lynne Ramsey. This movie stars Tilda Swinton, who is. Plays the mother of a son who was played by Ezra Miller that is dealing with. She's dealing with the idea that her son is basically a psychopath. Because there's actually the part of the movie of Donnie Darko that sort of gets, it gets thrown into this big mix of ideas, you know, that I feel like, again, sort of gets lost in the director's cut because of all of the new information, which is that the parents are dealing with their son who's taking, like, medication. He's going to, like, a psychiatrist. And there's the mother. Donnie Darko's mother is played by Mary McDonnell from Sneakers. And she's such an interesting character to me, like one of the more interesting moms in all of movies because she's kind of like detached, maybe an alcoholic, but is sort of like concerned, broadly concerned about her son. And there's a part where she actually goes into his room and he's basically like, mom, I'm, I'm crazy. And she's like, you're not crazy. Like, having the conversation of like, I'm fucked up and having to tell your son, you're not fucked up, like, we love you type of thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And that's like a part of the movie that kind of, it kind of pops back in and out. And again, that could be its own movie. But I feel like we need to talk about Kevin as kind of that period. It's just kind of like the idea of a family that has a son who is, quote, unquote, crazy, fucked up or whatever in their mind, and they're just trying to, like, navigate it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So, yeah. Interesting. I really like that scene in Donnie Darko where Donnie says to his mom, he's like, what's it like having a wacko for a son?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And she's like, it's great. Or something like that. It's very sweet. A sweet moment. So you're right. That could be its, like, owner movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. I feel like, I feel like it could have been. Plus, I, I, I was rocked by we need to Talk About Kevin. Remember when I saw that movie? I was like, holy, that movie's insane.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, it's deeply upsetting.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I love Lynn Ramsey. She's, she's incredible.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I have not seen Die My Love.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. It's like, I have it literally on my cube. I'm gonna watch it any day.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think I've seen every one of other of her movies, though.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just haven't seen the Latest one, but I love her Dark Dark.

[Millie de Chirico]

Love it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that's our show. If you have a gripe, grope or gret or you want film advice, please email [e-mail] youm can also send us a voicemail which we love. We got one from Valerie which is great. Just record a voicemail on your phone and email it to dearMoviesactlyRightMedia.com that's right.

[Millie de Chirico]

We are on social media. Dear movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Please follow us on Instagram. It's a place to hang. We're hanging there.

[Casey O'Brien]

You might see some acting reels pop up on there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Absolutely. For sure. Our letterboxd handles are Acylee o' Brien and mdcharica and we would really love it if you listen to our podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcast rate and review the show, it helps us so much.

[Casey O'Brien]

And that's all next week. Millie, are you excited? Have you seen this movie yet?

[Millie de Chirico]

I have not, actually. I bought a ticket literally 15 minutes ago.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm seeing it this Thursday.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you want to say what it is?

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure. It is no other choice. The brand new movie by Park Chan Wook and I hear it's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hear it's good too. This is the director who did Oldboy and others.

[Millie de Chirico]

It did Decision to leave, which is a great film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Decision to leave the.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, and the. And the lead actor. Everybody will probably know if you watch Squid Game. Lee Bung Hun.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I didn't realize that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. That's the lead of no other choice. So that's exciting.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very exciting. Thrilling. He's also in K pop Demon Hunters.

[Millie de Chirico]

He is. And I want to say he was in G.I. joe.

[Casey O'Brien]

He was. Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yeah, I'm really excited to watch it. I can't wait. All right, Millie, well, thank you for taking us me through the wormhole. And we're back.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you. I always love. I always love to talk about a movie that you loved so much that it made you choose certain things in life.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, it affected my life. Definitely.

[Millie de Chirico]

I love it.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, see you later.

[Millie de Chirico]

Bye. This has been an exactly right production hosted by me, Millie de Chirico and produced by my co host, Casey o'.

[Casey O'Brien]

Brien. This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Chirico]

Our incredible, incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer, and Millie De Chirico. We love you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Goodbye. Be Kindly. At cvs, it matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night, and we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs, we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is Julian Edelman from Dudes on Dudes with Gronk and Jewels. Sunday mornings I've got my game day ritual, Coffee, Lucky socks, and now new Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's all about that 12 gram protein boost with the new Uncrustables Bright Eyed Berry or Up and Apple flavors.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sprite Eye Berries got a feisty receiver.

[Millie de Chirico]

Energy up an apple. Your classic Do it all tight end.

[Casey O'Brien]

Soft pillowy, packed with protein and easy enough for Gronk to grab from the freezer.

[Millie de Chirico]

Whether you're on the couch, driving to the tailgate or heading to the locker room, New Morning Uncrustable Sandwiches are the the MVP of snacks.

[Casey O'Brien]

Your new Sunday kickoff ritual starts here with new Morning Uncrustable sandwiches packed with 12 grams of protein. Janice Torres here and I'm Austin Hankwitz.

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We host the podcast Mind the Business.

[Casey O'Brien]

Small Business Success Stories produced by Ruby Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Casey O'Brien]

The big thing about working at tech is that it's ever evolving, ever changing. Everyone's a rookie. That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice (Public, Tara Davis Woodhull, Hunter Woodhull)]

Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.