Dry January Part II & Withnail and I (1987)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You – Dry January Part II & Withnail and I (1987)

Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O’Brien
Release Date: January 6, 2026
Episode Theme: Exploring Withnail and I through the lens of Dry January, personal drinking histories, and the nuances of unhealthy friendships, plus film community advice and oral history recommendations.

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Episode Overview

Millie and Casey kick off 2026 embracing Dry January—the annual tradition of going booze-free for the first month of the year—by pairing it with an in-depth, humorous look at Bruce Robinson’s boozy cult classic Withnail and I (1987). Conversation meanders from hilarious personal anecdotes about drinking and acting to insightful takes on male friendship, artistic frustration, and the right way to build a film community. The episode wraps with listener questions and thematic movie recommendations.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dry January and Personal Relationships with Alcohol

• Millie and Casey playfully debate the wisdom, effectiveness, and cultural roots of Dry January, poking fun at the tradition and their own consumption:

  • “It is a tradition amongst drunks like Casey, where they stop drinking alcohol for the month, I guess, in order to, I don’t know, clean out their system after the holidays.”
    — Millie (06:00)

• Casey admits to loving martinis ("Alcohol is one of the joys of my life…", 59:34) but questions whether the ‘all or nothing’ approach of Dry January is truly healthy.

  • “My opinion on dry January is that if you really need a dry month, that's not good...I don't think binge drinking in general is good.”
    — Casey (73:25)

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2. Film Diary: Recent Watches & Cinephile Tales

• Casey describes watching Queens of the Dead (dir. Tina Romero), highlighting the creative zombie-makeup twist and the joy of supporting indie horror (“Zombie makeup was basically like fab drag queen makeup. They’re green…but they look, like, wonderful and beautiful.”, 15:31).
• Millie regales listeners with a story of meeting horror legend George Romero at a FilmStruck party.

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3. Main Feature: Withnail and I (1987)

Black Comedy, Male Friendship, and Escaping Failure

• Both hosts dissect the film’s genre and place in the canon:

  • “Would you say...I feel like we don't use this term anymore, but a black comedy?”
    — Casey (17:10)
  • “Everything’s a black comedy now. Everything’s dark, I guess.”
    — Millie (17:26)

• Richard E. Grant’s Withnail is celebrated as a magnetic, stylish, and complex drunk. Millie:

  • “Richard E. Grant...looks like he’s got this kind of like 80s Peter Murphy from Bauhaus meets Nick Cave look...” (18:50)
  • Both hosts swoon over Grant’s enduring handsomeness, noting his recent social media presence (20:40).

• Personal Connections:

  • Casey reveals his own thespian past, paralleling his years as an out-of-work actor in LA with the film’s depiction of artistic aimlessness and substance abuse.
  • “It was me. I lived with my friend Tom, and...we just would smoke cigarettes all day and drink all night and just be like, miserable...” (31:01)
  • Extended discussion delves into their high school theater society days (24:00–29:00), letterman jackets, and the pain, humor, and humility of low-income, early-career creative living.

Plot Breakdown & Social Commentary

• Plot Recap:

  • Two failing actors, Withnail and Marwood, escape London squalor for a disastrous country retreat thanks to Withnail’s predatory uncle, Monty.
  • The film explores desperation, dysfunctional loyalty, and the fleeting nature of formative friendships.

• Roommate Horror Stories:

  • Both hosts recount their own messy housemates and acknowledge the universal squalor of 20-something existence.
  • “I have lived with so many dudes in my life, and that’s all I have to say.” — Millie (49:02)

• Country Retreats & English Suffering:

  • Millie describes “cottagecore” fantasies dissolving in the face of real English weather:
    “Anytime I see a movie about people who are staying in England and then the weather is bad and it turns ugly...I start to think that it is the most miserable place you could ever be.” (47:24)

Notable Characters & Quotes

• Danny the Drug Dealer:

  • Both hosts recognize Withnail’s Danny (Ralph Brown) as essentially reprising his role in Wayne’s World 2:
    “Upon seeing this movie again...I was like, it’s gotta be from Wayne’s World.” — Millie (38:34)

• Uncle Monty’s Predatory Behavior:

  • Millie interrogates queer representation and the problematic, tragic pathos of Uncle Monty (53:58–55:56), including a poignant analysis of shame, gay coding, and generational gap.

• Richard E. Grant’s Sobriety:

  • Millie shares a remarkable anecdote:

  “The irony is that Grant doesn’t produce the enzyme that processes alcohol and is consequently unable to drink at all...he seems to have spent a lot of time on the Withnail set throwing up.” (57:38)

• On Playing Drunk:

  • Casey: “I think it’s really hard to portray drunkenness, especially if you’re not totally familiar with it.” (57:47)
  • Recalls Meryl Streep’s advice: “To play a convincing drunk, you have to pretend like you’re not drunk.” (58:17)

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4. Endings, Friendship Breakups, and Growing Up

• As Marwood leaves Withnail behind, the hosts reflect on outgrowing destructive friendships:
  • “He’s had enough trauma from this friendship where he’s just, like, not looking back. And I have to say, I kind of agree with him.” — Millie (63:06)
  • Both discuss the painful but necessary evolution away from people whose self-destruction becomes unsustainable:
    • “...A lot of our friendship was spent, like, mutually ragging out people and just ragging out each other, and, you know, it didn’t feel positive…” — Millie (67:32)
    • Casey talks about the natural erosion of male friendships and how sometimes, “if I decide to stop bothering, then the friendship really does go away.” (64:48)

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5. Listener Film Advice and Community Building

Creating a Local Film Scene (74:53)

• Millie outlines the thriving Atlanta film community, centered around “Videodrome” video store and the Plaza Theater. She encourages starting small—volunteer at local arts venues, coalesce around shared spaces, and just put yourself out there.
• Casey: “If you want to create something of your own…even if it’s a small version of it—do that. It’ll attract people, like-minded people. When you create something…you attract your community.” (78:54)

When Critics Disagree with Your Taste (81:36)

• Listener Linda (in soothing ASMR tones) worries about loving a movie that critics dismissed.
• Both hosts reassure her—loving what you love is personal and valid.
  • “Even if someone you respect…doesn’t like something that you liked, that means nothing. It doesn’t negate your liking of the movie.” — Casey (85:01)

Oral History Book Recommendations (87:59)

• Millie:
  • My Lunches with Orson by Peter Biskind (“funnest, bitchiest, raddest book ever”) (87:59)
  • Hollywood: The Oral History by Jeanine Basinger and Sam Wasson (“good basic oral history book…with so many famous people…”) (89:18)

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6. Employee Picks: More "Sad British" Movies

• Millie: The Trip (2010) — “Steve Coogan and Rob Bryden…travel, you know, to, like, different locales in the UK and eat…drive each other fucking crazy. It kind of reminded me of Withnail and I.” (90:34)
• Casey: Naked (1993, Mike Leigh) — “Living in squalor, but they're also intellectuals…a much tougher watch than Withnail and I but that's my pick.” (91:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Casey’s “Baby with the big hair” acting past:
  “If you don’t post that, I’m quitting, period.” — Millie (35:03)
• On quitting toxic bar friendships in her 20s:
  “A lot of our friendship was spent, like, mutually ragging out people and just ragging out each other...” — Millie (67:32)
• On adult letterman jackets:
  “If you wear your jacket from high school still as an adult, yikes.” — Millie (27:44)
• On bad roommates:
  “I have lived with so many dudes in my life, and that's all I have to say.” — Millie (49:02)
• Reflecting on lost friendships:
  “Friendships are often a product of circumstance more than deep compatibility.” — Casey (paraphrased from 64:00+)
• Richard E. Grant’s performance despite lifelong sobriety:
  “The irony is that Grant doesn’t produce the enzyme that processes alcohol and is consequently unable to drink at all.” — Millie (57:38)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |----------------------|---------------| | Casey’s acting woes / drinking jokes | 02:02 | | Dry January begins / Episode theme | 05:41 | | Fast food & New Year’s resolutions | 09:06 | | Film Diary: Queens of the Dead | 13:40 | | Main discussion: Withnail and I introduction | 17:09 | | Casey’s acting backstory | 23:42–31:01 | | Living with bad roommates | 49:02 | | Cottage misery & travel with friends | 43:21–47:24 | | Uncle Monty analysis & Grant's sobriety | 52:00–59:34| | Personal reflections on endings, friendship breakups | 63:34–72:00 | | Listener Advice: Film community | 74:36–80:28 | | Listener Advice: Critic disagreements | 81:36 | | Oral History Book Recommendations | 87:59–90:18 | | Employee Picks | 90:34 |

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Overall Tone & Style

Conversational, wry, and self-deprecating, the episode balances serious insight about friendship, addiction, creative struggle, and growing up with a steady stream of pop culture references, personal confessions, and generous asides.

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For Next Week

Prepare to get even more bleak:
Millie and Casey announce next week’s film will be Elem Klimov’s Come and See (1985), promising a harrowing but essential anti-war cinematic experience.

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Socials & Listener Engagement:
Send questions/voicemails (<1 minute) to [e-mail]
Follow on Instagram & Facebook: @dearmoviesiloveyou
Listen on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Summary prepared by the Dear Movies Podcast Summarizer: Covering everything from dry months to drunken masterpieces, so you never miss the real story.

Transcript

[Millie Decherico]

This is exactly right.

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[Millie Decherico]

Call 1-833-537-8462 or visit lecvio.com Yo Casey, what's happening?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, these are distressing times. Oh, I started acting again as you know, because I'm. I'm a talented thespian and the world needs to see me upon a stage and it's a gift I'm giving the world by my return to acting. But I see all these talentless schmucks getting auditions and I'm getting nothing and if I have an audition I don't get a call back and it's put me In a state, and I'm distressed about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Let me ask you this, are you. Have you been drinking today? What's going on? You're acting kind of erratic.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, what am I supposed to do, you know, during the day? Supposed to be working on a podcast. I'm gonna drink some wine to lubricate the mind, to get me into the place where the muse can visit me. You understand? Yeah, I see nothing wrong with drinking a bottle or two.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it's a lot. It's like 11am though, dog. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe you shouldn't.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

You shouldn't be in the state so early in the day.

[Casey O'Brien]

The early bird catches the worm and. What, the worm I'm referring to is the one in the bottom of a tequila bottle?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, the. The thespian worm. I suppose the thespian worm and I.

[Casey O'Brien]

Running out of things to drink around here. I mean, it's unbelievable. I mean, I have this tasty looking bottle here that I could try sipping upon.

[Millie Decherico]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I would say no, don't drink that. That looks like a. It looks like a flask, but it's actually lighter fluid for like your Zippo or something. You don't want to drink that.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, you can't drink that.

[Millie Decherico]

No, I know it looks like alcohol.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you ever see the movie the Master with Joaquin Phoenix?

[Millie Decherico]

I have, in fact, yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

He was drinking a bunch of chemicals and he turned out. Okay, listen, he seemed on the level.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, I don't want anything bad to happen to you, even though, you know you're in a really depressed state of despair right now. I'd say put that down. You probably like, judging by all the little clinky dink bottles you got behind you, I would say you probably had enough. You probably don't need any more anything.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, how about this? We record for this podcast for 30 minutes and then I get do kind of a check in. And at that point, if I'm not feeling any happier, I'm going to drink lighter fluid.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Okay, I will. I will hesitantly agree to that. We'll do a check in, but for now, right now, let's just put that back. Well, I don't even know why you would have that anyway. Are you. This feels like. Do you have a Zippo or is this 1997?

[Casey O'Brien]

I have a Zippo. I'm, you know, I've started smoking cigarettes, chain smoking inside the house and.

[Millie Decherico]

Are you going to see big bad Voodoo Daddy later tonight or going to.

[Casey O'Brien]

See the big, bad voodoo daddies. I want to be one of those guys who can do kind of like lighter tricks. You know, I can flip it open and the flame comes out. You know those cool guys.

[Millie Decherico]

You snap your fingers and it lights.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, exactly. Wow, Daddy, those guys always look cool.

[Millie Decherico]

Impressive. Okay, now I get why you would have that in your house, but just don't drink it. Let's just put. Put the lighter fluid down, and let's. Let's try to do a little podcast for a little while, and then we'll see how you feel. Well, how will you say about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. We'll see if this can feed my soul in the way that the theater does. Well, but we have an exciting episode that we do.

[Millie Decherico]

In fact, we were talking about something we talked about this time last year, which is that we've begun a new year, 2026. How exciting. And we're going to talk about a custom called Dry January.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And it is a tradition amongst drunks like Casey, where they stopped drinking alcohol for the month, I guess, in order to, I don't know, clean out their system after the holidays. I really. We didn't even crack why or how this tradition started of Dry January. But we'll talk a little bit about it. And then we figured we'd pair it with one of the most quintessential films about drinking, I would say. Yeah. 1987's with nail and I.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is kind of a, you know, a companion piece to our very first episode, which was Star is Born. You know, this can be maybe our first episode of the year. Tradition, you know.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Our franchise, if you will.

[Casey O'Brien]

Our franchise.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Well, yeah, so we're gonna talk about that movie a little bit, maybe, you know, spin off some of our tales of drinking and dryness, perhaps.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right. And then also we're gonna do some film advice. We have some more wonderful questions and a voicemail, and we'll get to that as well. So very exciting stuff happening on this episode.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. You think you can hang in there for me while we record this and, you know, maybe get through without.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm definitely seeing some pink elephants dancing around the zoom screen right now, but I think I can make it through. We'll see.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, all right, folks. Stay tuned. Happy 2026. You are listening to Dear Movies, I love you. Dear Movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Check the box below.

[Millie Decherico]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Dear Movies I love you. This is a podcast for those who are in a relationship with the movies. My name is Millie Decherico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie Decherico]

And yeah, we're back with you. A brand new year full of possibilities.

[Casey O'Brien]

I haven't made any New Year's resolutions yet, and I probably won't this year.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. My new Year's resolution is to just like, not do anything major for.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's a great idea.

[Millie Decherico]

A while.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, if I can help it, because last year was chock full of huge milestone events for me, and I am tired of milestone events. I would like to be calm.

[Casey O'Brien]

Let's take the year off, Millie. Let's just go at 50%.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, this is a time for me to wind down my extracurriculars. Like, not have as many big life events. Just get into, you know, like one interesting thing as opposed to 10 interesting things. Sure. And just coast for a while because I am tired.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me too. Me too. I need to get better acquainted with fast food. I feel like I didn't eat enough fast food last year.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God, dude. I feel like I was the complete and utter opposite. I ate so much fast food last year.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. What was your meal of choice?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, to be honest, it completely started with those goddamn BTS toys that they were putting in the McDonald's Happy Meals.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've got three of them.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I was trying to collect. I was trying to collect them all, which is embarrassing. But I would have to go to McDonald's and order a Happy Meal, which is actually perfect. I think, food wise, I feel like.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think serving size, it's actually probably what a person should be eating.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I agree. Especially the fries. The fries are cute and tiny. But then what I would do is sometimes I would add an extra cheeseburger.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mm. Because there we go.

[Millie Decherico]

The cheeseburgers go down so easy at McDonald's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, yeah. I love their. I love their small cheeseburgers.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was my. That was my meal for a while. The two cheeseburger meal combo.

[Millie Decherico]

Classic. Sometimes I would do, if I was, you know, feeling fanciful. Filet o fish meal, add a cheeseburger.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hell, yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Surf and turf, you know, that's the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mixed surf and turf Deluxe, people. The McRib is back currently right now, too, so I've been. I've been going back. I love the McRib.

[Millie Decherico]

I have never had a McRib.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, it's good.

[Millie Decherico]

I feel weird about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, you should. It looks like it was, like. It's in the shape of, like, little ribs. I think that's what I'm saying.

[Millie Decherico]

It looks like it has bones, but it's not. There's no bones.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's kind of. It's one of those where it's like, this is all the food is like fake to some degree at McDonald's. But this is like goes. This is showing its hand too much. I feel like by like imprinting this patty in the shape of ribs.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. It's like you could definitely tell it was in a meat mold and you're.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, yeah, meat mold.

[Millie Decherico]

Awful. Awful.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now, Millie, we recorded not too long ago, just a few days ago. So I think our film diary is going to be pamphlet sized again.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Especially for me.

[Casey O'Brien]

And also you are moving right now.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I am.

[Casey O'Brien]

You're recording this from inside a cardboard box in your home?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, essentially I am. It's a really rough setup right now. It feels like I'm in a 1970s crime film and having a meeting in a warehouse or something. It's a disaster.

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[Casey O'Brien]

Well, let's open up the film diary and I can discuss the movie that I saw.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Over the weekend. There it is. Very easy, very light. I saw a movie directed by the daughter of George Romero. Tina Romero.

[Millie Decherico]

Fuck, yeah. I met him, actually.

[Casey O'Brien]

George Romero?

[Millie Decherico]

Hell, yeah. Really? You fucking kidding me? It was Rip King, damn delight. He came to. We had a party when we launched filmstruck, which is this streaming service that I worked on back in the day. Look it up, you'll find it online.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's a Wikipedia article about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Many of us have never let it go, so you'll definitely find info on it online. But he came to our film struck party, the same party when I told you that story about how Whit Stillman got trashed.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep.

[Millie Decherico]

Speaking of dry January. But he was there, too. George Romero was and was kind of holding court in a corner. And I just walked up to him, which is not me. I don't like to walk up to celebrities at all. But I was like, shoot your shot with this stud.

[Casey O'Brien]

This stud.

[Millie Decherico]

He was really.

[Casey O'Brien]

You said something to him. What did you say?

[Millie Decherico]

Said, hello, sir. I'm a huge, huge fan, and I'm so glad you're here.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. I think I've mentioned this before, but my wife Trisha is a huge zombie fan. She has seen, basically. I mean, I feel like she's seen every zombie movie known to man. She just watches them constantly.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

And seeks them out. So George Romero is an important figure in our home.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And we watched Tina Romero's new movie. Actually, it's her first movie. It's called Queens of the Dead, and it's a zombie movie that takes place in, I think, Brooklyn mostly. And it's like drag queens getting attacked by zombies.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it is fun. It is a fun romp. And it's very campy and outrageous and funny, and I had a great time. And also, you know, like, with zombie movies, there's, like, little differences, like, are they fast zombies? Are they slow zombies? Are they the type of zombies that are, like, here because of some science experiment gone awry? Or is it like a religious thing that the Dead is raising. You know, it's like there's, like, little differences in rules in every movie. And one of those things is how zombies look, too. Like, zombies look different in every movie. And in this one, the zombie makeup was basically like fab drag queen makeup. They're, like, green, but they're like. So when they turn into a zombie, they turn into. They're green, but they look, like, wonderful and beautiful. And I thought that was kind of like a fun touch on the movie. So, yes, I enjoyed it. Queens of the Dead.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, that's fun.

[Chelsea Handler]

It was a romp.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's fun.

[Millie Decherico]

The pictures look great. Is it a Shudder original?

[Casey O'Brien]

I believe it is. Got it. What else do we have? We can get right into our movie. I mean, if that's it, we can close the diary up.

[Millie Decherico]

Fucking shut that shit, boy.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't have anything. Shut that shit.

[Millie Decherico]

Shut it.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, we are back for our main discussion with Nail and I from 1987. It was written and directed by Bruce Robinson. It is a. Would you say. I feel like we don't use this term anymore, but a black comedy, that was a very big 90s term. I feel like.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I feel like everything is a black comedy now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, right. I agree. Everything's dark, I guess.

[Millie Decherico]

I guess it was something that needed to. We needed to make a distinction between broad comedy, which I guess would be like the hangover movies or something, the clumps. And black comedy, which is serious but funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, so it's that kind of movie. Stoner movie, hippie movie. It's a cult film. People kept saying it was a cult film, but I feel like this is kind of a Criterion staple or an early on Criterion film themes. Paranoia, drinking, homosexuality, drug use, friendship. Male friendship, to be precise. Standout actors. This is Richard E. Grant's first movie and I love him.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, me too.

[Casey O'Brien]

He is fabulous. And he's great in this. Famous quotes. I don't know. No, I can't think of any. Millie, what is your personal connection to this movie? Do you have one?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, I think this, like you said, this movie was kind of out there in these cinephile streets for me for a long time. I remember seeing some still or some clip from it maybe like 15, 20 years ago, and I was like, oh, I wanna watch this movie. Because I feel like Richard E. Grant kind of looks like he's got this kind of like 80s Peter Murphy from Bauhaus meets Nick Cave look with, like, the big hair and the overcoat and the kind of wild eyes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love his look. I wanna dress like him.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, he's so handsome. If I want to be really embarrassing. I remember the first time I saw Richard Grant, period. I remember seeing the trailer for this movie that he was in called Jack and Sarah from 1995. And I feel like Samantha Mathis was in it or something like that. But it used to be at the front of, like, all these VHS tapes that I used to own. And it's a rom com. And in the trailer there's a Simply Red song that plays significantly in it. And it's. It was like a popular Simply Red song that now they play on, like, adult contemporary radio or whatever all the time. And I remember, like, secretly watching that trailer because I was like, this seems like it's the most romantic film I've ever seen set to this Simply Red song that I secretly like. But that was the first time I ever saw Richard E. Grant. And I was like, oh, my God, he's. He's hot and English and all those things. And then, yeah, when I saw something from Withnail and I. I was like, oh, now he's younger and he looks like he's kind of this goth guy, Almost this kind of 80s new wave goth guy. And so I made it a point to see this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like Richard E. Grant has aged so well. Like, I feel like he could play this role right now. I mean, he looks great.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I want to say. What was it? I think it was maybe I was talking to Danielle about this on an episode of I saw what you did. But I remember we. We might have talked about him because he was on social media or something like that. We were like, damn, what a. What a hottie. Still a hottie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Looking great.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I aspire to look like him at that age.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, for sure. What about you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Me? I had never seen this movie before last night. And I had always wanted to watch it. It was one of those movies I'd heard about since high school with Nail and I. It just was floating around, and I just never got around to seeing it for whatever reason. And I think so that's sort of my personal connection to it. But I will also say, upon watching it, I did sort of live this existence. And maybe I'll get more into that as the movie develops.

[Millie Decherico]

You must.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was a very familiar feeling to watching this movie. I was like, yep, I've been here.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

So can't wait to get into that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Should I get into the plot a little bit?

[Millie Decherico]

Let's go.

[Casey O'Brien]

So this is set in 1969. And I think it's a little debatable whether it needs to be like it's a period piece because this came out in 1987 and it's set in 1969. I know it's based off of the director Bruce Robinson's life in the 60s, so that probably has something to do with it, but.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, if it hadn't been for the music, to be honest, I would have never thought it was taking place in the past.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, same. Okay, so it is about two out of work actors. Withnail played by Richard E. Grant, and I played by Paul McGann. He's. Apparently. He's never named in the movie, but in the screenplay his name is Marwood. So they live together in this, like, shitty flat, and it's like a dump, and they're living in squalor and they feel like shit, they look like shit, and they are miserable. The only thing that gets them through the day are cigarettes, booze, and an occasional speed pill. They're just kind of down and out, I guess, and, you know, they're drinking, they're boozing, they're trying to find food, they have no money. But they trick the rich uncle of Whiffnail named Monty, played by Richard Griffiths, into lending them a key to his country cottage because they must get out of London. It's just become too oppressive. Their failures are everywhere. And there's scary men at the bar that are threatening them and calling them ponces. So they have to get out and they must get to the country. Like I said, this. This was a very familiar feeling to me. There was a period of time where my job was actor and.

[Millie Decherico]

Really?

[Casey O'Brien]

Huh.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, let's go back.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Because this is something that I. I've never asked you about, nor know anything about.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie Decherico]

So you were at. You were an actor in high school, or you were at least a thespian, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, yeah, a thespian. I've always been a thespian.

[Millie Decherico]

So you're a theater kid?

[Casey O'Brien]

I was a theater kid, 100%. I was in.

[Millie Decherico]

But were you in Thespian Society, is what I'm asking.

[Casey O'Brien]

We didn't have that. I'm not exactly sure what that is. Is that like theater nerd society? Essentially, yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I think it's like a national organization. I'm actually in it, too. Oh, yeah. Even though I did not act or. Nor want to at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

I see.

[Millie Decherico]

It was a club, you know, at my school. So what would you would go to? Drama club, which is the after school thing, where, like, all the fucking nerds would hang out at, including me and my friends. Yeah. Right. Now, I was not a drama club kid because I did not technically act. I was just there as it was just hanging out after school. So what happens is, if you participate and get enough credits, you know, every time you work on something for Drama Club, you'd get a credit. And then if you got enough credits, you got to, like, graduate to what they call the Thespian society, which is kind of like, you know, the upper echelon of what drama club is or something. And it's a. Like a lifetime membership, and I think it's like a national thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie Decherico]

And then you would travel with the thespians to go to, like, different things around the, you know, state or whatever. But I remember I helped out with one play, and I held a curtain.

[Casey O'Brien]

Someone has to.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I held the curtain, and then I put a big clip on it when the actors were finished walking through. And that was enough to get me into Thespian Society.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie Decherico]

So I have a card somewhere, and I think I actually have a letter, because you would let. You could let her.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, yeah. You could let her in theater at our school, too.

[Millie Decherico]

So I think I have a letter, which is so, so stupid. I don't know why. I don't. Stolen valor is kind of what it feels like.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I lettered a bunch of stuff that I would never. Because I never got a letterman's jacket. Because that's what you do. You get a letterman's jacket and then you could put the letter on there. And I never.

[Millie Decherico]

I never got one either.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was like, if I'm not the captain of the football team, I'm not getting one of those letterman jackets. I'm not going to get one that has the, you know, the comedy drama mask insignia on the shoulder, because that's what it was for. Like, theater, because I lettered in theater. Speech team. Because I was on the speech team, which was sort of an extension of the theater group. And I think I actually. What else? Yeah, I think it was those two things. And I was like, I'm not going to get a let. I'm not going to get a letterman's jacket for that stuff.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I lettered in sports. I mean, I lettered in softball. I was a sports person for. I actually was on the varsity team my freshman year because I was. I was that good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm impressed. I didn't know that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, I used to be a jock, weirdly enough, before I started smoking cigarettes and drinking lighter fluid.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I Still see the jock in there. You're giving me the, you know, proverbial noogies and putting my head in the toilet.

[Millie Decherico]

I do have. You know, it's so funny you say that, because I have friends that'll be like, oh, I can see it in the way that you like sports and can talk about sports. And I'm like, yes, okay, you nailed me.

[Casey O'Brien]

You got it.

[Millie Decherico]

But even though I did have a letter in sports, I didn't want a jacket either. First of all, they were like $200, which at the time I was like, fuck that. And then also, it's a look.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was like, it's not my look, it's a look. And also it really bothered me that I couldn't wear you. You can't wear it after high school, you know, and it would bother me. I also, it's like you're wearing, like, kind of an advertisement. I don't want people coming up to me to talk about things that I'm wearing, wearing, like, unless I want them to. And I wouldn't want them to talk to me about that.

[Millie Decherico]

Now, if you wore like a letterman's jacket that's vintage from a school that you didn't go to, or if you wore like, if you have like a Valentino letterman's jacket or something, I can see it. The actual letterman's jacket look is kind of cute. But it's like if you wear your jacket from high school still as an adult, yikes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know what I'm saying? So.

[Casey O'Brien]

But yes, I was very. I was in theater in, you know, grade school, at my school. And then in high school, I was very active in theater. I was in plays every season. My senior year, I co wrote a play that got put on by our theater program, which was the first time they'd ever done that. The school I went to had its own theater track. It wasn't art school, but we had kind of a theater school within our high school. And I went, I was, I attended that school.

[Millie Decherico]

Was the play that you wrote the one that was ripping off Garden State?

[Casey O'Brien]

Was it ripping off? Did I say that in the Garden State episode?

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know. Didn't you say you wrote something that was very similar to Garden State?

[Casey O'Brien]

It is, yes. Yes, that was the play was that. I'm trying, you know what? I'm honestly trying to think because I feel like there were multiple things I made that were inspired by Garden State, but I think that that one was because it was about someone going back home. It was called the name of the play Prodigal.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, that's what you talked about, that.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it was so melodramatic and so heavy. It was like a man returns to his childhood home to take care of his father, who's been debilitated by a stroke. And it's like. It's, like, so insane that I was. We were like, 17 and we're like, this is so important what we're doing. And it's like. So it's kind of like Max Fisher and Rushmore. Like, it's just so. Like, why not write something about being a high schooler or, like, something, you know, a little bit more, you know, or whatever. Yeah, yeah. It was like being Vietnam. But I was very involved in the theater. And then I went to college and went to film school, and actually I wasn't able to act in stuff because of film school. You know, I was on. I did, like, some improv stuff in college, but, like, being in the film program did sort of prohibit me from acting for a while. And by senior year of college, I was, like, sort of sad that I wasn't acting and stuff. So right after college, I started, like, trying to pick that up, and I'd be in my friend's films more. I was. I advertised myself more as an actor, you know, like, I'll be in your movies.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know.

[Millie Decherico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then as a result of that, my friend jp, who worked for this production company called Sandwich Video, they do a lot of tech commercials. JP was like, hey, Casey, can you be in this commercial? Like, we need somebody. Somebody dropped out, basically. And then I became kind of one of their, like, stable of actors that were in a bunch of their commercials for a few years. And through that, I got an agent.

[Millie Decherico]

What?

[Casey O'Brien]

And I was auditioning for commercials and bookings, sort of. I never booked a major commercial, but I'd be in, like, random stuff. And I was also. I was working at an art gallery at that time, part time. I was kind of picking up random stuff during that time, but I was making essentially no money and I was absolutely miserable and auditioning and just smoking. It was me. I lived with my friend Tom, and he and I were in a very similar situation. And we just would smoke cigarettes all day and drink all night and just be like, miserable and feel like shit.

[Millie Decherico]

And during that, Tom is the friend that got the carton of cigarettes thrown to him from the.

[Casey O'Brien]

They were thrown to me, but Tom was there to witness it. We lived down the. On our block was a convenience store where we'd buy cartons of cigarettes From. And I told this story before, but they were out of cigarettes one day and they knew us. And I was standing in our living room, and I could see the shop owner walking towards our apartment holding up a carton of cigarettes, and he threw it through my balcony window, and it landed in my arms in my living room. And Tom was sitting on the couch just seeing a carton of cigarettes fly into our apartment into my arms.

[Millie Decherico]

God, that is magical.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was magical. It really was magic. But we were also like, oh, my God, we were so. We were like these idiots in this movie. We were just, like, depressed and felt like shit.

[Millie Decherico]

And Tom was an actor, too.

[Casey O'Brien]

He was. I mean, he is an actor. Was an actor, but he was doing more like, screenwriting stuff. And he was working for a production company at the time, but I think he was actually unemployed for part of that time, too. He was kind of on and off with them, so I'm not exactly sure the timeline of that, but we were just kind of around all the time.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well, you guys, like, LA unemployment is. I feel like I can say this without having been unemployed in LA technically, but plenty of people around me were.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And it's a different type of unemployment than pretty much anywhere else in the country.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Because there's so many people in that same boat. It's like a whole. It's like a whole society unto itself.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And a lot of times they're, like, beautiful, and so it's like, you're just beautiful.

[Casey O'Brien]

Tom and I, we were beautiful.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, that's so funny that I just didn't know anything about your acting life. I. I think it's so interesting. I mean, it makes sense when you. When you talk to me about how you used to be an actor, I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense.

[Casey O'Brien]

It. This all lasted probably one year where I was kind of like, let's give this acting thing a go, you know? And then I kind of ran out of money and I got a job at a preschool.

[Millie Decherico]

Is there any clips of you anywhere? Can we, like, look you up on YouTube?

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. I'm out there.

[Millie Decherico]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. I gotta do this absolutely right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Let me. I. I don't know if you'll be. Let me. Let me look them up for you and I can send some to you. Okay. Here, I found one. I'll just send one to you and I'll. I can mine more later.

[Millie Decherico]

You better. This is gonna make my 20, 26. Let's see it. Let's fucking see it. Look at this. Baby with the big hair.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. Big time, baby.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow, you are smoldering in this, huh? You look like a stud.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow. Get the out of here. That is awesome. Dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that funny? I was, I, I'm, I, I having a hard time finding all these other ads because they're like just buried, you know, in the Internet.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, we have to post that. If you don't post that, I'm quitting, period. I'm not joking. I quit if you don't post that. Everybody has to see this, baby. Casey, wait. So how old were you?

[Casey O'Brien]

I was. How old am I now? I was. I'm 37 now. I think I was 25.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

Or 24 in that. So that was. Millie just watched one of my commercials and is having a very large reaction to it.

[Millie Decherico]

If we don't post.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's a lot of me out there in my commercial work.

[Millie Decherico]

This is fucking fantastic. Dude. What a secret world I've just uncovered of your acting work. Do you have a headshot? Will you post your headshot?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I post my headshot. Do I have any more of my headshots? See, this was like. I'm sure I have it digitally somewhere. I could post it.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, you know what to do.

[Casey O'Brien]

Let me make a note of this. Let me make a note of this.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Reminder to post on social medias because this is rich. This is incredible. All this to say this is this amazing period of your life was what made you connect to with Nail and I on a much deeper level is what you're saying.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Man, were we drinking a lot too?

[Millie Decherico]

It's so interesting. I was gonna say this probably later as we go through the plot a bit, but I. This movie, I mean, quite obviously we picked it for this episode because it is wall to wall drinking pretty much the entire time. And would you say that with Nail? Richard E. Grant character drinks way more than the Paul McGann character, Marwood?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I would definitely say. And he's kind of the instigator. Like, we need to get alcohol. We need, like. It seems like Marwood's kind of on for. Along for the ride. And that was not the case with like Tom and I. We were.

[Millie Decherico]

You're both with nails.

[Casey O'Brien]

Two little with nails running around.

[Millie Decherico]

I was gonna say I am. I. Basically, when I was watching this movie, it kind of hit me that I have never drank this much in my life. Even in my lowest points. I was never a withnail. I am definitely the I character. I'm the one that has to Speak sense into the much drunker friend.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Which is fine. I have resigned to this fact. However, I will say that I did smoke a lot more weed than I did drinking. I don't think even in my weed days, I was never with Neil. But, yeah, I probably, in the aggregate, haven't drank this much.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, ever.

[Casey O'Brien]

I should say that Tom and I were more like, with Nail and Marwood combined, because we weren't, like, out of control, but we also weren't as passive as Marwood, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

So you're saying that even in your drunken hour, you could get it together and be like, oh, fuck, I do have an audition. I've gotta get my shit together.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. And we would never drink lighter fluid or the equivalent to that.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

One character that I just wanted to point out is the character of Danny, who is a drug dealer.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Played by Ralph Brown.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And Millie, you pointed this out, but he plays essentially the exact same character in Wayne's World too.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. So upon seeing this movie again, which had been a very long time since I've seen this movie, I sat there for about 45 minutes and I was like, this guy is somebody. Who is he? What is. Like, how come I've heard this voice before?

[Casey O'Brien]

This was an oft quoted character in my friend group in the Wayne's World, too. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And then it hit me. I was like, it's gotta be from Wayne's World. I actually thought it was from Wayne's World one until I did some research and found out it was actually the second movie. But, yeah, he pretty much plays the same character, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And I thought in Wayne's World, too. I'm like, this guy's in his 50s, but I actually think he's like, 35.

[Millie Decherico]

That's British people for you. I suppose that's like such a funny. Such a. Like who, to the credit of Mike Myers or whoever was working on Wayne's World 2 to, like, bring that guy back.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely. They must have seen With Nil, and I had been like, of course. Oh, let's get that guy in there.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, let's move on to the next part of the movie, if you don't mind.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Oh, the only one thing I wanted to say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Is that just a little bit of background, you talked about handmade films.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I did, because they had. They had recently put all of them, or like, a lot of them on the Criterion Channel and I watched Time Bandits.

[Millie Decherico]

That's right.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's one of the handmade fields. Sorry, continue. What you were saying?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, no, I was gonna say that production company is co owned by George Harrison of the Beatles, which I think is interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I wonder if that's how they were able to get the rights to the music in this movie because they have like a lot of Jimi Hendrix and then they also have the Beatles in the movie. So I'm kind of like, I wonder if he was able to be like, pull some strings.

[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, so they're going out to the country with Nail and I going out to the country in their beat up little car and they're Driving in the horrible rain. And Whitnail is drinking or sleeping the whole ride. And when they get to Uncle Monty's cottage, it's a piece of shit. I mean, it seems awful. It's like there's no food, there's no wood. It's just this rundown cottage. It's probably hundreds of years old. It's miserable and cold. They try to purchase food from some locals, and that's a no go. They're not nice. And they also run afoul of a local poacher played by Michael Elphick. And when they meet him, he has pheasants in his coat and eels down his pants, and he won't give them any. And Whitnail and Marwood are convinced that this guy, his name is Jake, this poacher, that this guy's a psychopath and is going to kill them because he keeps showing up to their cottage with a gun.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. This. I mean, this made me think about traveling with friends. You know, like those trips where it's like, we're going to a cabin and we're gonna stay the weekend with friends, or like, going to Palm Springs, renting a house in Palm Springs. And it can be fun, but it can also be kind of miserable because you have to, like, organize making food and all that. And this certainly felt miserable upon watching.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, we talked a bit about this when we had Katie Walsh on the episode when she was talking about the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Rich people on vacation.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. From a while back. Because I had read this article again, I don't know if it was the New Yorker or New York Times Magazine, One of those. What are those talking about? Like, the etiquette of going on vacation with your friends.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And sort of like best practices in order to stay friends after the trip. And I have been on so many trips with friends, it's kind of like the only way I traveled back in my 20s especially. But even now in my 40s, like, I do love renting houses with friends. Like, I think it's probably the type of vacation that I like the most, because I don't unless I'm traveling alone. I feel like when it comes down to it, like, I like to travel alone when I want to go to a place and do a bunch of stuff I want to do. Like if I. When I went to Japan, for example. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I was like, okay, I want to hit all my little stores and do all my little things. And, you know, I just feel like that's best done alone for the most part. But then my preferred Type of vacation is one where you just, like, go and rent a big house and just sit around playing, you know, wordle and cooking and being lazy and shit. Right. That's my preferred vacation.

[Casey O'Brien]

See, I hate a board game, so I'm a little bit afraid of those situations because I feel like renting a house with friends, invariably, board game comes out.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, my friends and I really don't play board games. If we do. If we do, we play cards, which I feel like is not a board game and actually is cooler than playing a board game.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

Or we watch YouTube, which is depressing. But, like, the last time on my. Like, so last time I rented a house with friends was my birthday. We went to a lake house, my friend's lake house here, actually, in Georgia, which she rents out, and we watched Fail army compilations for, like, hours.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God, that sounds like a fucking dream. Oh, it's great.

[Millie Decherico]

We were like, you know, we were, like, smoking our vacation cigarettes and having beers and just laughing at people falling over fences and shit. It was awesome.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have so many good memories of, like, laying around a laptop with all my friends and, like, just watching stupid videos on them.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. It's. I kind of do it a lot with my friends because I feel like we're all so just completely laid out by life at this point that we, like, don't want to challenge ourselves. And it's like, I usually just go over to my friend Eddie's and we just watch, like, weird clips off YouTube or, you know, we watch.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a very passive activity. Right. And it's nice, but it's cool.

[Millie Decherico]

It's, like, low stakes, which I love. But it's the thing that is interesting to me about Withnail and I, especially at this part where they're going to the country house. Is that so. I love movies that are set in England. I mean, what's not to like? The cottage life, the, like, stone fireplaces and the giant bottles of wine and, like, I don't know, just the fucking Englishness of England. But anytime I see a movie about people who are staying in England and then the weather is bad and it turns ugly. Like, the circumstance turns ugly. Like, there's no heat and there's no food. I start to think that it is the most miserable place you could ever be.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I feel like the worst weather there is is when it's raining and it's like, 40 degrees.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it feels like that's, like, the predominant weather system of England. So it seems, like totally miserable and freezing. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

The Last time I was in England, that was the case. I went there in February. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Recently.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well, the past couple years.

[Casey O'Brien]

And not this past February.

[Millie Decherico]

No, no, no. This was like three years ago or something. It was. I'll just say it. I was recently unemployed. Ah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I remember this trip, and I was.

[Millie Decherico]

So depressed and had a depressing, raining, 40 degree, European, quote, unquote vacation. I don't know. It was a vacation, but it was. I was feeling it big time. And it was like. It's funny because like I said, it can go from 100 to 0 really quick in those circumstances. Cause I'm like, oh, this is so cozy and warm and the fire and the, you know, the mulled wine or whatever. And then you. And you're like, it's fucking freezing and everything is dripping with water. And in this movie, that's what they're experiencing in this cottage. They're just, like, fucking miserable. And I'm like, oh, I could feel it in my bones, you know?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And Richard E. Grant's constantly like, I'm freezing. It's bitterly cold in here.

[Millie Decherico]

Awful.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was gonna ask you this at the top. You know, both these men are pretty disgusting roommates. Have you ever had a disgusting roommate? Have you been a disgusting roommate, Casey? Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

I have lived with so many dudes in my life, and that's all I have to say.

[Casey O'Brien]

I will say I've lived with so many dudes in my life, and that's all I'll have to say. You know what? I'm a clean, tidy roommate.

[Millie Decherico]

Good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm a dream.

[Millie Decherico]

Good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, emotionally, I might be a difficult person, but cleanliness, I'm pretty good to go. But I've been. I've been in some disgusting situations. And watching this movie kind of brought me back to that because I'm like, you know, I haven't lived in such filth in such a long time. It would be, like, such a culture shock for me to go back to living that way.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying I was a good roommate. In fact, I think probably half my roommates hate me for reasons I kind of don't.

[Casey O'Brien]

I wonder if that's my same percentage, too. Yeah, I was a bit of a baby. And a few roommates specifically, I, like, screamed at and moved out immediately because we had, like, a fight.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I was mad at them.

[Millie Decherico]

I was just broke. Do you know what I'm saying? Broke as fuck. And this is the thing that I think, looking back on all of it, which gives me kindness towards anyone that I lived with in my 20s, which is that we were all broke as fuck. Unless you weren't. Unless you were a trust fund kid. Then go fuck yourself and you know who you are. I'll just dangle that out there. Like, some of my. I had some roommates who had extremely wealthy parents or were in a situation where they were dating somebody who was extremely wealthy and, like, didn't need the situation at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And in that case, I'm like, well, you. Like, why are you picking on me for, you know, not paying the goddamn phone bill for a month? But it. Even in that situation, I've been on the opposite end where I was the one paying the bills on time and somebody couldn't get me money. And now I look back on it and be like, well, of course we were fucking 22 years old. Well, how else are we supposed to live? You know what I mean? But at the time, I was like, yeah, so and so, like, didn't give me their water bill payment or whatever. And it's like, yeah, it was a big deal, I guess, to be owed $43 when you're 22.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But, you know, it is funny that Whitney and MARWOOD, they're, like, 29. So they are, like, older. I think that's.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're like, almost 30. So it is sort of fun.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, No, I. I clocked that about them pretty early. I was like, oh, they're probably, like, you know, old enough to not have to reach their hand into a murky sink. Yes. And worrying if, like, a matter a rat is gonna bite them. Oh, my God. I was like, that happens very early on in the movie. And I was bracing myself big time.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was good. All right, I'm gonna do the next section here. Okay. So they're at the cottage and they're scared, and one night someone breaks into the house, and they're convinced it's the poacher Jake who's come to kill them. But it's that Uncle Monty just dropping in. And Monty is annoying, and he keeps making sexual passes at Marwood, but he's brought a lot of food and wine, so that's good. And Marwood is trying to get out of there because he got a telegram that said he got a callback for acting. And you can tell Whitnail is a little jealous, but Monty kind of, like, won't let them leave. And one night, Withnail passes out drunk, and Monty. Uncle Monty makes a move on Marwood, and Marwood has to lie and say that he. And withnail are together to get Monty away from him. But Uncle Monty. Not tonight. You might recognize Uncle Monty as Uncle. Uncle Dursley. Is it from Harry Potter? Is that their name?

[Millie Decherico]

I've only seen the first Harry Potter.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that right? I've seen every single one that tracks.

[Millie Decherico]

People of your generation really bit into that apple and savored it.

[Casey O'Brien]

We did, yes. He played Vernon Dursley in the Harry Potter movies. So that's Uncle Martin.

[Millie Decherico]

Having said that, I know people twice my age that are obsessed with Harry Potter, too. So, you know, whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I'm not obsessed with Harry Potter anymore because of J.K. rowling. And it makes me sad because I was like, those were a fun escape book and movie. And it was fun. Every, like, Christmas, a new Harry Potter would come out and we'd go see that around Christmas time. So.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

But now I feel funny and weird about.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, because she keeps double tripling, quadrupling down on everything every fucking week.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's so evil.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's so evil. You know, I didn't like her when she said that. She was like, oh, yeah, you don't care about this at all, Millie. But, like, basically all the books are done, and then she's like, one of the characters, she's like, oh, yeah, they were gay. And it's kind of like, we'll put it in the book. They weren't gay. Like, and she had. She did other things where she was like, oh, yeah, that character did this. And it's like. But that's not in the book. You can't just like. Like, I don't feel like an artist has eternal ability to go back and tinker, you know, like.

[Millie Decherico]

Anyway, well, fuck her. Am I right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Fuck her.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hate her.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. This. I'm. No, Uncle Monty, actually. I feel bad saying this, but he gives gay uncles a bad name. You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, he's very aggressive.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Even though there is this moment where, I guess in order to stave him off, Marwood suggests that he and Withnail are actually a couple.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And then Uncle Monty's like, oh, my God, I didn't know. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to, you know, get in the way of this or whatever. And at some point, like, much after the fact, he, like, writes him a letter and is basically like, hey, be free and gay. Unlike. Yeah, unlike me, who was never able to be or something. And it was like. It actually kind of tugged on my heartstring a little bit. I was like, damn, that's real. But you know, just in the very. It's very over the top. And it'll seem very cartoonish by modern standards to have this gay character who's being so forward and handy, handsy and innuendo y. And that kind of stuff. But, you know, like, I suppose there has to be stakes in this film because that's the thing, is that Withdale is sort of like a bad friend. I would say.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would say he is a bad friend.

[Millie Decherico]

He just kind of sells Marwood out all the time in order to. For his own purposes. He's basically like. He's stoking this flame of his uncle and Marwood a little bit, which I think is kind of shitty.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Because he knows that Monty can't leave because he's got all the food and the warmth and the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And the. You know, and all the stuff that they need to survive. So it's kind of shitty.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he's a bad friend.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and I wanted this. I wanted to actually read this. This bit from this interview that I found while I was doing research for this week. It came from the Evening Standard magazine in 2003, and I guess it was an interview with Richard E. Grant. And I thought this was so interesting because this movie is so much about drinking and drunkenness and, you know, drug abuse or whatever. I just thought it was interesting to read. So this is a quote. The irony is that Grant doesn't produce the enzyme that processes alcohol and is consequently unable to drink at all. His first and only bender took place the day before the final rehearsals for With Nail and I, and it took him an entire night to get down a bottle of champagne. The director asked me to, but I paid the price. I was very, very ill. He says I'd have a drink and be violently sick, but I kept forcing it down. So by the next morning, I was drunk and then I passed out. I woke up 24 hours later. In fact, he seems to have spent a lot of time on the Withnail set throwing up.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. That's impressive, because I think it's really hard to portray drunkenness, especially if you're not totally familiar with it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. If you've never had a drink, which is what it sounds like. I mean, who knows? Maybe he'd had a drink. I mean, he is British, after all, but like it says, he'd never had a bender. And the idea that he can play drunk convincingly is really impressive.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that is impressive. Can you think of other actors who are good. Did we talk about this last year? Actors who are Good as drunks pretending to be drunk, huh?

[Millie Decherico]

Maybe not. Who are you thinking of?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I always felt like Meryl Streep, but she's just an excellent actor. Yeah, but she was the one, I believe, that said, to play a convincing drunk, you have to pretend like you're not drunk. Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

That makes sense.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which is interesting. And then I remember Emily Blunt in the movie. Is it the girl on the train? She's an alcoholic and has drunk a lot of that movie, but I was just kind of like, I don't buy it. Emily. You don't seem. And then she played a drunk in Oppenheimer, too.

[Millie Decherico]

Same. That's right. I know a lot of great actors that can play high, including Matthew McConaughey from Days of Confused and also Rory Corcoran from Dazed and Confused. They're the two standout high actors in that film, I would say. Yeah, yeah. But even being high, you can overplay that big time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally. So that is fascinating about our friend Richard E. Gray.

[Millie Decherico]

What would happen if you couldn't produce the enzyme to drink?

[Casey O'Brien]

Then I couldn't produce the enzyme to live. Frankly, I would be. That would be hard. I mean, that. That is. I'll say it. Alcohol is one of the joys of my life. And it would be like taking away coffee.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I would just be sad. I would be very sad.

[Millie Decherico]

They'd probably, like, strip you of your Irish heritage and everything.

[Casey O'Brien]

They'd take my badge away. You know, I love a martini in the evening. I would say. I have one almost every night.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's a joy and a delight and something I look forward to. And maybe I'm drinking too much alcohol, but it would be. I would be sad. That would be hard for me.

[Millie Decherico]

Coffee is probably my version of that. I honestly cannot imagine not drinking coffee.

[Casey O'Brien]

I can't either. I would say coffee and martinis are, like, equal for me. Like, it would just be so painful. It would be like saying I couldn't eat chocolate. You know, it's like just one of these little fun things in life that I like.

[Millie Decherico]

If you don't have your daily candy bar, you don't want to know you is what you're saying.

[Casey O'Brien]

Exactly. Don't talk to me until I've had my two Snickers King size Snickers bar.

[Millie Decherico]

All right. Well, all right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Here we go. End of the movie. Whitnail and Marwood are driving back to London to get Marwood to his callback. I guess Whitnail has taken over driving duties and is driving drunk and, like, a Maniac. He gets pulled over and arrested. They somehow. It's not really explained, but it's all fine. They somehow get back to their flat and they find their drug dealer buddy Danny, as we've spoken about before. He's hanging out there and his associate, presuming Ed, played by Eddie Tago. And they've sort of taken up residency at their apartment. And Marwood finds out he got the lead in the play. And also, they're being evicted.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So the movie ends. Marwood has gotten a haircut. Whitnail is drunk, drinking out of a bottle of wine. And he's walking Marwood to the train station while drinking the bottle of wine. And Marwood's like, I'd like to go the rest of the way by myself. I'm going to miss you with Nell. And they say goodbye to each other. And it sort of felt like for the last time, it didn't seem like they were gonna hang out again.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you get that impression?

[Millie Decherico]

I think so. I think so. I mean, I think once the haircut happens, it's pretty much set in stone. I will say this, by the way. Marwood absolutely proves that hair is everything. Because the moment that hair gets cut, I'm like, who is this? Like, he changed.

[Casey O'Brien]

He really looks. He's changed his personality. It's crazy.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God. He went from looking like you. Well, she kind of does.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you think that when I was watching this, I was like, this guy looks like me. We have the same glasses.

[Millie Decherico]

We're both nervous about to suggest that you look like a character when he's at his lowest point. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, but, you know, the.

[Millie Decherico]

The curly hair really is present and all this stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

But then, like, getting called a gay slur at a bar. I'm very familiar with that.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, dear. Well, I. I will say, though, that the moment the transformation happens, I mean, it just really is shocking how different he looks.

[Casey O'Brien]

And, yeah, you can see he's in the military.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, exactly.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, his personality is, like, gone. It's. He's completely changed.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Yeah. And you can tell. I mean, he's done so. He's had enough trauma from this friendship where he's just, like, not looking back. And I have to say, I kind of agree with him a little bit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, at the beginning of the movie, it starts with a voiceover and he says something like, with nail is starting to wear on me.

[Millie Decherico]

Can I ask you a bit of a potentially personal question?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you ever been the dumper, or perhaps the dumpy in a friendship? Like that, like where one person drinks too much. Oh, has anyone been like, casey, you're incorrigible. I can't hang out with you anymore because you drink too many martinis.

[Casey O'Brien]

No.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you ever done it to somebody?

[Casey O'Brien]

I have never done it to somebody either. I feel like I've dumped friends in the past, but I would say most of the time it's. Things just erode, especially male friendships. It's kind of like, all right, because men are really bad at keeping up with each other. And so if you. And I feel like I'm pretty good about keeping up with people, I'm always the friend that's like, hey, what's going on? I'm the botherer. And so if I decide to stop bothering, then the friendship really does go away.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so I've had friendships end like that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I mean, this movie, it did make me. It did remind me of friendships of the past that were like, you're very tight with someone during a short period of time, they're like, you're. You see them more than anybody and then a year later you don't see them at all and you'll never see them again. I've had a lot of. I feel like I had a lot of friendships like that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, A lot of those I have with work people.

[Casey O'Brien]

Work people, yeah, definitely. But what about you? Have you ever dumped someone for those reasons? The them drinking too much or you drinking too much?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, I mean, it's the former. Right. Because there was actually two major periods of my life that I would say that that happened. One was a friend of mine from high school and the other was when I pretty much stopped DJing, like out. I used to DJ at this bar for many, many years. And I stopped because I had a full time job and I was sort of like not hanging out as much. Not hanging out as late. I found it kind of impossible to be a club DJ while working a 9 to 5 job. I mean, that's seems pretty obvious, but I think because of that I had kind of just broken up with the entire bar in a way. It's like weird to say because. Yeah, when you, when you're working there, you. You had all these bar friends, right. And they were just like regulars. But then there were like the bartenders and then your friends, friends that were coming in, you know, and so you just got caught up in the whole social community of the bar. And for the most part, like when I stopped working there, I was sort of exiled from that world because it's like it kind of unfortunately makes you realize, like, you're not really friends with most of those people. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? And so, I mean, they weren't calling to hang out with me outside of being at that bar. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And then I started thinking about some of the people that I had made friends with from that bar and realizing that the only thing we really had in common was drinking. And when I stopped hanging out at the bar, I stopped drinking as much. And then it just kind of became clear to me that it was just, like, not like the. The friendships weren't as wonderful as I kind of thought that they were.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

And of course, I was in my 20s, too, which was sort of like, you put up with a lot of shit in your 20s in order to be accepted by people.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally.

[Millie Decherico]

And I just had a clarity moment where I was just like, you know what? Like, this isn't me. I feel like I don't know if I would necessarily be friends with these people if it hadn't been for this place. And I don't feel like they really know me or want to know me. And a lot of our friendship was spent, like, mutually ragging out people and just ragging out each other. And, you know, it didn't feel positive necessarily. And so I just was like, all right, I'm out. And I kind of, like, just stopped. Like, I just kind of stopped showing up, and it felt fine. I. I don't know if it was fine, but most people, like, didn't fucking care. Like, no one.

[Casey O'Brien]

They didn't reach out.

[Millie Decherico]

No. Nobody was calling me to be like, hey, let's work on our friendship. So I was like, okay. Yeah, I guess that's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it is interesting. You know, in your 20s, I feel like there are a lot of friendships where you're like. Or I felt this way anyway. So I'm just speaking for myself, where I would be like, I feel uncomfortable, and I don't feel like I'm acting like myself.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And. But this other person is cool, and I want them to like me. And so there must be something wrong with me, and I gotta change that about myself. And then when you get a little bit older, you're like, oh, wait, no, I'm fine. This person just sucks. Or like, this person is the fucked up one. And I don't need to change about myself. Yeah. Anything about myself. And I don't want to be friends with that person anymore because they make me feel bad, you know? So I certainly had a lot of friendships like that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I Would say, I spent a lot of my early years being in those friendships where I would feel like I could actually feel. There were certain people that I would know that I just would, like, brace myself to be around because I just knew I wasn't coming authentically to them. Like, I just felt like I was playing a role in their little cadre of weirdos or something like that. You know what I mean? And that was really painful for me because again, as a fucking, like, eternal lifelong people pleaser, I was just sort of like, oh, yeah, I'll be your little punching bag. You can, like, make fun of me because I'm not. Not as cool as you or whatever. Like, whatever the metric is, you're not as blank as everybody else in the group. I just kind of felt like I don't want to be that anymore.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally.

[Millie Decherico]

So I exited. And then the former scenario where I stopped being friends with somebody, it just was because I was. I was taking too much care of them ultimately. Like, it was just. Was like. Like kind of nutty. Like, I was getting calls in the middle of the night to come pick them up at bars and just kind of, like, apologizing for them and, like, doing all this stuff and. We were in high school, dude. Like, it was like, yeah. I mean, that's a lot to. But at the same time, too, I was also in that role because that's the role I was born to play, was the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, person that would come pick you up type of thing. But. And then this person and I went to college together. It kind of got progressively worse. And then at some point, I just was like, I gotta cut it off. And then the unfortunate thing is that they actually ended up passing away a few years ago. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Really?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And I wasn't friends. Like, we had not been friends for many years. But it was sad. It was sad when I found out that she died, but it was. It's painful because it's like. That's the thing is that, like, people. This is just such a sensitive. It's like a sensitive situation when it comes to people who drink and who do this kind of stuff. And it's, like, hard because you don't want to, like, make them feel like shit. But then you also got a fucking tcp, you know, it's like, you gotta fucking move on with your life. And it's, like, hard. And this is the thing is that I feel like at the end of Withnil and I, he's basically just like, the hair is gone, and so is this. I Mean, we can't, like, I can't exist with you in this, like, way that we've existed. Too much has happened. And obviously there have been so many points in this film where he was like, not. Their friendship was not based on anything real, really. You know, it was based on sort of like, tall tales and late nights type of thing. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it is certainly, like, at the end of the movie, you're kind of. I mean, I feel like I've been in that situation where I'm like, oh, I think of drinking as, like, a fun treat, like a dessert, and you are using it as a all the time kind of thing. And that's a difference in our relationship with alcohol, you know, like, so hard.

[Millie Decherico]

It's hard to imagine that Withnail could even do one hour of dry January.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I feel like we saw it occasionally in the movie and he was a mess. He was like.

[Millie Decherico]

He was drinking lighter.

[Casey O'Brien]

Lighter fluid.

[Millie Decherico]

He couldn't cut it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Does that count? Does. Does lighter fluid count in dry January?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I think it counts as double, actually.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's double. Man, oh, man. Well, I really loved watching this. I really had a good time. I really. I'd never seen it before, and it was a delight.

[Millie Decherico]

I know that you don't participate in dry January because you have a birthday, Right. And your daughter has a birthday, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. More my birthday than my daughter's birthday.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you ever done another dry month, though? It's okay to not have, by the way. I won't judge you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Not completely dry. My opinion on dry January is that if you really need a dry month, that's not good. Like, I feel like, look yourself in the mirror. I feel like a lot of guys are like, oh, man. Dry January in a week. We got it. I got to drink double this week, you know? Or it's like. And then they hit it really hard at the end of dry January, and I'm kind of like, I don't think is. That's good. I don't think binge drinking in general is good.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, but I. I'm not. I'm not going hard, you know, and the people who, like, do that on a regular basis. That's not good.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, but. Yeah, well.

[Casey O'Brien]

But, yeah, Dry January. Here we are.

[Millie Decherico]

Good luck to you out there if you're trying it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Good luck. Good luck. All right, we're back with film advice. This first one is from Clarissa. Clarissa says some very nice things about us in here.

[Millie Decherico]

Millie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm not going to read all of them, but she Says some nice things. She says she has a vivid memory of watching TCM and seeing Garbage Pail Kids and Dogville comedies and thinks you have something to do with that.

[Millie Decherico]

That was me.

[Casey O'Brien]

There we go. You are right, Clarissa.

[Listener Linda]

All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

She asks. I need advice. I'm wanting to start a film community where I live, and specifically a guerrilla filmmakers film festival for local filmmakers, artists, dabblers, first timers, et cetera. But I don't know where to start. Do you think anyone would even know what those are? Is my dream really just a dream, or do you think it's something obtainable? I would love your input on that, and if I follow through, I would love to send you an invite. Let me know what you think. Love you. Bye, Clarissa. I thought this was just a good question about trying to form film community where you're at, and I don't know. It's hard. Do you have any advice? I don't have as much advice for specifically, like, guerrilla filmmaking, but do you have any advice about creating film community, Millie?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, because I think Atlanta is actually excellent at this and has been for a long time, by the way. Like, there's always been a pretty vibrant community of, like, film nerds here. But that. I think it really, really got kicked up a notch pretty much when I moved to LA in 2016. So it was like. I don't know. I left Atlanta for five years and came back, and all of a sudden, it's like, everyone. There's, like, a huge film scene here now with, like, lots and lots of young people who are, like, so cool. We're really lucky, though, because we have a couple of different, like, really strong places here that kind of film people can congregate, and they all work with each other, which I actually think is the key. So Videodrome, which is our local video store, they're kind of like the center of the wheel. I mean, they're. They've been around forever, ever since, you know, I was in college, and same people who own it, same people that have worked there forever. And it's just a bunch of, like, film nerds that are really cool and they're selfless. They'll do anything for you. They'll find a fucking movie that you've never even dreamed of seeing and will help you get that movie or figure it out for you or, like. And they do so much with the community. They put on screenings, they do events with all these other film people from all over the country, and they bring people to the store. And so it's kind of, like, they're there. And then the Plaza Theater, which is the theater that's pretty much on the opposite corner of the video store and the rep scene there is incredible. And they both work together, like Videodrome and the Plaza and all of the people that are doing, like, programming. So it's this kind of heartwarming scenario because it feels like there is at least a couple different places for people who, if you're, like, into movies where you can definitely meet people, definitely collaborate on things, if you want, you can get people to help you with making your movie. You know, like, people have found financing through this community. People put on parties and, you know, events and special little things. I mean, it's kind of amazing. And so that's the thing is that if you have something like that where you live, like, try to see if there's, like, I don't know, if you have a rep theater where you live. I would, you know, if you don't already hang out there, start hanging out there a lot. But, you know, just sort of meeting people in those spaces, like, anywhere that is, like, where people that my, like, movies would hang. I know that not every city has a repertory cinema. So maybe there's a cool record store or maybe there's a community theater that puts on plays or something. Anywhere that is, like a center of arts in your town. Try and see what's going on there and maybe, like, hang out there, go to shows, volunteer, like, do something. But I think it's like, where you end up meeting the cool people is through stuff like. Yeah, right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think that's great advice. I think also, you know, if you want to, I think it helps to create something of your own to, like, if you want to create a guerrilla filmmaking film festival, just do it. Like you can do it. Like, do it the best way you know how. And even if it's a small version of it, like, we're doing a film festival in my basement, do that. You know, it'll attract people, like minded people. When you create something, if you want to make a movie. Like, I just made my movie in Minneapolis, and I don't know any film people here, but I, you know, posted on Craigslist and like, Facebook groups and like, hey, I need help making this movie. And I met a bunch of people that way. And I feel like I'm still trying to make inroads into the community here, but that really helped. Creating something attracts people that are similarly minded. You know, if you want to, like, if you want to make a, like, filmmakers society or something. Create that and be like, let's meet at this bar at this time. You know, I think you have to put yourself out there to attract like minded people in order to create a community like that. But it is hard and it takes effort and it really. You really do feel like you're putting yourself out there. And it can feel awkward and stupid, but. But that's how, you know, that's kind of the creative process in general. So. Yeah, that's a good question. Okay, Millie, I have a voicemail for you. And just a warning, this is an ASMR voicemail.

[Millie Decherico]

Let's hear it.

[Listener Linda]

Hi, Millie and KC, this is Linda and I have a YouTube channel called no Frills ASMR. Recently I uploaded a video where my husband and I reviewed the movie Deliver Me from Nowhere. It's the Bruce Springsteen movie about Nebraska, and we loved it. And after I uploaded it, all these people came out, critics, like, you know, big time critics, saying how awful it was. And it made me feel kind of insecure about my taste. And I wondered if the two of you have ever reviewed something and then later just seen it just by people you respect being pummeled and how you felt about that. I really enjoy your podcast. I go out walking most evenings and listen when it's available. So the longer the better. All right, guys, I'll listen to you soon. Thanks. Bye.

[Millie Decherico]

Damn, I feel so fucking relaxed. Do you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I feel totally at ease now. Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

All the stress and worry is completely gone. My goodness.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think this is a good question too. I feel like it really hurt my feelings when I liked something and someone I respected didn't like it when I was in film school and in my 20s. But, you know, the more movies you see, the more film opinions you have and the stronger those convictions are. And at a certain point you don't care. And you like. I don't know. It took me a while, but, like, now I don't care if people don't like a movie I like. So. Yeah, but that's certainly happened to me. It's disheartening, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like the first time that I read Pauline Kael eviscerate Stanley Kubrick, I was like, oh, that's fucked up. Do I have the wrong opinion of Stanley?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, yes. That's always the question I have. Do I have the wrong opinion?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I mean, Pauline Kill was, you know, she had some shit stirring tendencies. But I felt like I also, you know, I. I don't know, as somebody who I don't know, was like obsessed with being a cinema shithead and sort of like a borderline edge lord teenage edgelord. I suppose I frequently was like, oh, I like the thing that nobody else likes, right? Like, especially if you're into cult movies, you're always championing things that most other people think is garbage, right? So you develop this like sense of yourself that's like, oh yeah, like I'm not liking the obvious thing, like I'm turning left when everyone's turning right. And then you find your people like Pauline Kill or any kind of like rabble rouser type and you're like, oh yeah, like a lesser bangs or somebody, you know, somebody that has like really what you feel is like great taste and it's kind of like seeing you quote unquote, right? And then they don't like something and you liked it or you're just like, oh no, my whole belief system is totally out of whack. And I remember, like, I don't know what it was, if it was the Shining or something that. Where I read her take and I was just like, oh, fuck. Like, I don't know, just was like a gut punch. But then it's so funny because then I grew up, I simply aged and it was like, oh, now I understand. Like, I understand what she's getting at and where at the time in my 20s or whatever, you know, you're so precious about things. You're like. But then now I'm like nearing 50, which sounds insane, I can't believe I'm saying that. But it's like now I'm like, oh yeah, I can totally see that opinion. And maybe it's a little bit of what I think now too. Like, I don't know, it's so interesting. But yeah, I don't know. It's, it's, it's hard though, when you do, when you read that, you're like, oh, who am I?

[Casey O'Brien]

I guess I just want to say, like, even if like someone you respect, a big time critic doesn't like something that you liked, that means nothing, you know, you should, you. It doesn't negate your liking of the movie. And it's not. It doesn't. I feel like it's very easy to feel like, oh, I'm stupid. They think I'm a stupid person because I like this movie that they didn't like. And that's not true. You're not stupid.

[Millie Decherico]

So when it comes to friends and romantic partners, though, what happens then? You just break up?

[Casey O'Brien]

If you have a differing opinion on A movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, if Trisha came home and was like, can't fucking believe you. Like, one battle after another. What a piece of shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, some version of that has happened where I was like, oh, I love that. And she was like, I hated it. Or she's been like, I love that. And I'm like, stinkville. So I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

We.

[Casey O'Brien]

It doesn't matter.

[Millie Decherico]

You're still.

[Casey O'Brien]

It has no good. We're still together.

[Millie Decherico]

Good for you and your maturity. Love that.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I will say I feel like Trish and I agree on most movies, though, it's a surprise. It's kind of an interesting surprise when we just. When we have different opinions on something.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I'll tell you, most of the time I've gotten an argument about a movie, it was from a man. It was a man who wants to argue with me. A man.

[Casey O'Brien]

A man. Very good, Linda.

[Millie Decherico]

Thank you. I was gonna say our podcast is probably the opposite of an ASMR podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's disruptive. It's shrill, jagged, shrill and awful.

[Millie Decherico]

It will make you agitated. Yeah, well, specifically my voice.

[Casey O'Brien]

No.

[Millie Decherico]

What do you say, dude? Sometimes I do listen back and go, jesus Christ. Can we tone me down a little bit more?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, no. Shut up. Stop it. All right, okay, last question. This is kind of a quick one, and it's more towards you. Hi, Millie and Casey. I'm reaching out because I've been really interested in nonfiction books recently. And I remember back when the POD was I Saw what yout Did, Millie had mentioned some oral histories of film that were either digitally available or printed. I've been wanting to dive into more film TV history while on this nonfiction kick. I was wondering if either of you, not me, I say parenthetically, had any recommendations for really good, fun or interesting oral histories, preferably printed. Is. I don't love reading digitally because it can give me a headache, but I can get over it and make it work if it's only available online. Chloe, any good oral histories that come to mind? Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, let me think about this. First of all, I will say this is sort of an oral history. It's really more of like a recounting of Hollywood or something. But if you have not read the book My Lunches With Orson by Peter Biscuit, it was basically conversations that occurred with Orson Welles and the filmmaker Henry Jaglum. Man, that was like the funnest, bitchiest, raddest book ever. Because Orson Welles is insane. Was insane. Had a lot of tea on so many fucking people and, you know, is like, at his high era of just, like, cigar smoking and drinking. He's at lunch and he's got a dog on his lap. It's like, farting the entire time. And he's just, like, recounting sort of like, his own personal histories and tales of, you know, working with people in the business. Yeah, it's so fun. It's so fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. Yeah, I love Orson Welles. I love when any of his quotes come up or. I don't know, even on TikTok. I feel like there's been an old interview footage popping up occasionally, and he was. He was great.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. There's also the. There's a book that's called Hollywood the Oral History that was written by Janine Basinger and Sam Wasson. I think it came out. I want to say it came out, like, maybe like a year or two ago. No, it was. Yeah, maybe like two years ago.

[Casey O'Brien]

Three.

[Millie Decherico]

Two or three years ago. Janine Basinger is a great writer, by the way. She's a great film writer. But it's kind of like. Yeah, it's an oral history of, like, Hollywood. Old Hollywood, you know, it's like there's so many famous people in that book. It's like Spielberg, Katharine Hepburn, you know, Harold Lloyd. And so that's kind of like a good basic oral history book. And it's pretty big. That'll keep you busy for a while. But it's so funny because a lot. There's a lot of oral histories about tv, which I think is really interesting if you want to go down that road. But, yeah, there's quite. There's quite a few out there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Those are great. I think that was great. Yeah, awesome. That was great. That was very helpful. I think that was a perfect answer. I hope that helped you, Chloe. All right, it is time for Employees picks film recommendations based on the theme of the discussion. Millie, what's your pick?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, in the spirit of traveling to the country in England, I decided to go with the trip from 2010, which I know is a TV show, but it's also a movie. I think we know what this conceit is. It's basically the comedian actors Steve Coogan and Rob Bryden, who travel, you know, to, like, different locales in the UK and eat. It's all about food and drink and fellowship, but then they drive each other fucking crazy. And it kind of reminded me of Withnail and I a little bit in that way where it's just like, I don't know, having to go out with a buddy of yours Maybe like kind of a frenemy. Let's just call it a frenemy situation. And having to interact with like the locals and stuff in different towns. I don't know, it just kind of reminded me of that. So that's my employee pick.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you seen Alan Partridge Alpha Papa from 2013?

[Millie Decherico]

No.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's good, Millie. It's so fun.

[Millie Decherico]

I love Alan Partridge though. So I want to see it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's so fucking funny. Okay, we should. We should watch that. My pick is a movie from 1993 called Naked. It is directed by Mike Lee. It stars David Thewlis. I'm just picking this movie because I feel like it sort of feels like a similar vibe of With Nail and I. In certain ways it's like young people living in London. Or maybe it's not in London. I don't know where Naked takes place, but it's in England. And it just feels like these people living in kind of squalor, but they're also intellectuals. Naked is much darker and not a comedy, I would say. Well, maybe it's kind of a comedy, but the characters are kind of annoying. But it's a really powerful, amazing movie and it's definitely on the top of a. If you're any sort of self respecting shithead, you should see naked from 1993. Yes, it's quite a film, but it's a tough one. It's a much tougher watch than with Nell and I would say. But that's my pick.

[Millie Decherico]

Good pick. Love it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. We recorded another episode of the podcast.

[Millie Decherico]

Millie, you held your shit together. In order to complete it. I do think you need a dry January now that you've got pushed to the point of almost drinking Zippo fluid.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did drink it halfway through. I just didn't say anything.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, couldn't tell at all. All right, well, listen, hey, that's our show. If you want film advice, if you want to chit chat, if you want to speak into a microphone and sound all lovely and calming, we'[e-mail] so that is if you want to email us, if you want to send us a voicemail like Linda did. Basically you record it on your phone, make sure it's under a minute. Just send it to the email address. Dear moviesactlyrightmedia.com Casey is in those streets. He's either responding or will post or will. Yep, we will talk about it on the pod. So you can't lose.

[Casey O'Brien]

You can't lose either. You'll get a personal little Note from dear old Casey or we'll talk about it on the show. Both are a treat, I would say. Please follow us on our socials earmovies. I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterboxd handles are and Decherico. Listen to Dear Movies, I Love youe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review our show, please. It helps makes us happy. Next week. So it's January, things are bleak. And so we're doing a bleak movie. Do you want to tell them what it is, Millie?

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, boy. Strap the fuck in, everybody. If you're snowed in and you're not feeling good, I don't know if I could recommend this to you, but I will. I will recommend it to you only so you can listen to our podcast and know what we're talking about. We are going to be watching a movie called Come and see from 1985, directed by by Elam Klimov. Like we just said, it is a hard movie. It is a bleak movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've never seen.

[Millie Decherico]

It deals with war.

[Casey O'Brien]

Can I read you this quote by Roger Ebert about it? This is not a spoiler. It's said that you can't make an effective anti war film because war by its nature is exciting and the end of the film belongs to the survivors. No one would ever make the mistake of saying that about Elam Klimov's. Come and see. This 1985 film from Russia is one of the most devastating films ever about anything. And in it, the survivors must envy the dead.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Bleak.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, enjoy, folks. That's what we're talking about next week. Yeah. So stay tuned for that one. But in the meantime, Casey, Millie, I'm so glad I got to watch your commercials.

[Casey O'Brien]

I forgot about that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, we will never forget. Okay, that better be on our social media right now or I'm quitting this podcast.

[Listener Linda]

I'm not.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm not joking.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Okay. People will get to see my face out there. I'm not hiding these. They're just.

[Millie Decherico]

No, I think. I think we're gonna have like, engagement. I think we're have like a million views on it.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's why I'm saying, oh, so this is going to be our breakup.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah. This is.

[Casey O'Brien]

You're saying we're trying to.

[Millie Decherico]

We're trying to get people to listen to the podcast. All we gotta do is post you in your little, like, fixie bike or whatever the fuck you're with your rolled up pant legs and shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Excellent work. You should have won a Cleo for that or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

They give a Peabody.

[Millie Decherico]

All right folks, bye bye. See ya. This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie de Chirico and produced by my co host Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cotner and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie Decherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgarith, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie Dicerico.

[Millie Decherico]

We love love you. Goodbye.

[Casey O'Brien]

Be kind.

[Millie Decherico]

Rewind.

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