Hellraiser (1987)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You – Hellraiser (1987)

Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O’Brien
Date: October 21, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the legendary 1987 horror film Hellraiser, directed by Clive Barker. Hosts Millie and Casey dive into its gnarly world of pleasure and pain, BDSM subtext, and what makes it such a goth and countercultural classic. Along the way, they share personal connections, discuss the movie’s notorious imagery and themes, and reflect on its cultural staying power—sprinkled with their signature humor and candid asides.

---

Spooky Season & Halloween Antics

[01:41–10:06]

• Millie and Casey warm up by discussing the chaos and pressure of October ("spooky season").
• Stories of last-minute Halloween costumes:
  • Millie’s forgotten “Nancy” (of Nancy comic strip) costume and an iconic turn as Gallagher:

    “I actually smashed fruit in the back of the parking lot... And I actually bought a sledgehammer from Home Depot and returned it.” – Millie, [07:23]

  • Their childhood devotion to “Wayne’s World” costumes—Millie as Wayne, Casey as Garth.
  • Plans to go trick-or-treating in their 40s, “Wayne and Garth" style.

---

Film Diary: Weekly Watches

[16:53–32:07]

• Casey's Picks:

  • The Adventures of Buckaroo Banzai (1984): “Tons of fun, lots of ideas, zany, good time.” [17:19]
  • Silver Bullet (1985): “Gary Busey terrorizes the audience because he is so crazy.” [18:19]
  • The Fury (1978): Comparing the era’s fascination with telekinesis.
  • Let’s Scare Jessica to Death (1971): “A really kind of spooky hippie movie...folk horror.” [19:21]
  • Visitors from the Arcana Galaxy (1981): Zany practical effects, puppet monsters.

• Millie’s Picks:

  • Emmanuelle (1974): French erotic classic, “directed by a horny French guy,” but stylish and extremely “vibey.” [22:55]
  • Nightmare on Elm Street (1984): “Freddy is terrifying in this movie...he hadn’t developed his standup routine yet.” [24:02]
  • Ilsa, She-Wolf of the SS (1975): “I was bored to tears by Ilsa, apparently...the marker for what is ‘fucked up’ moved.” [27:30]
  • Der Fan (1982): “Talk about pacing...it is like a glacially paced...throbbing electro music...very German.” [29:46]
  • All That Jazz (1979): “A horror movie about aging...Roy Scheider, our greatest cigarette-smoking actor.” [31:14]

---

Main Discussion: Hellraiser (1987)

[34:00–75:58]

Themes & Personal Memories

• Casey: Hellraiser was “an absolute VHS classic,” but too scary to watch until age 31.

  “I had to be married to protect myself from this movie.” [35:24]

• Millie: Hellraiser was owned by goth/industrial “alternative kids” (lots of “fetish wear, leather pants, boots”) and was always connected to Clive Barker’s legacy; her memory focuses on the art of “kids that were into Hellraiser.” [36:16–38:00]

Plot Rundown

• Frank’s Hedonism:
  • Frank buys the infamous puzzle box in Morocco seeking “carnal pleasures unlike anything available on earth.”
  • Opening the box summons the Cenobites, who subject him to a hell of pleasure and pain.

    “He didn’t care...he needed to know the other side.” – Casey, [47:13]

• Obsession & Betrayal:
  • Larry (Frank’s dorky brother) moves into the childhood home with wife Julia, who is obsessed with Frank.
  • Julia and Frank’s sexual past depicted through memorable wedding dress-seducing and knife/bra-strap cuts:

    “He’s a real dom, and you’re like, fuck. OK?” – Millie, [52:09]

• Frank’s Return:
  • Larry’s blood accidentally revives Frank as a grotesque, skinless form.

    “This movie is ooey gooey, dude.” – Millie, [59:54]

  • Julia willingly murders men to feed Frank, exploring themes of dominance, submission, and taboo desire.

The Cenobites & BDSM Subtext

• Analysis of the Cenobites ("Pinhead" et al.):
  • Their look: "industrial goth, cyberpunk," “full leather or vinyl.” [66:46]
  • Connections to BDSM—Hellraiser as a metaphor for extreme pleasure and pain, kink culture, and queer subtext.
  • Clive Barker's personal connection to kink, “his shit is kind of sexy...[but] dangerous.” [55:02]
  • Pinhead's relative screen time vs. cultural icon status:

    “If you would have asked me in middle school, I would have said [Pinhead’s] the entire movie.” – Millie, [66:15]

Standout Quotes & Moments

• Memorable lines:
  • “We’ll tear your soul apart.”
  • “Come to Daddy.”
• Gross-out highlights:
  • “Doesn't [Julia] like, put Frank's fleshy, bloody fingers in her mouth...he’s not even fully back yet.” – Casey, [60:24]

Culture, Gender, and Power

• Julia, as dominant business lady/goth archetype of the ‘80s.

  “She’s the hottest woman of all time—every man who sees her is like...” [61:41]

  • Reading Frank as ultimate dom, Julia as sub.
• Reflections on growing up Catholic, the innate allure of the taboo, and how Hellraiser is countercultural, queer, and still striking in today's climate.

The World of Clive Barker

• The particular “goth, fantasy, BDSM kink” element Clive Barker brought to horror—feeling “part of a greater myth or something.”
• Attraction to the underground and countercultural, especially in contrast to the current political/cultural climate:

  "It feels really underground. It feels really countercultural in a really cool way. It feels very queer..." – Casey, [73:48]

---

Listener Letters & Film Advice

[75:58–92:31]

• Favorite Kids and Teen Movies to Pass On:
  • Both hosts reminisce about watching things outside their age group, “broccoli movies," and how classics like The Wizard of Oz, French New Wave, or Twin Peaks might hit younger generations today.
• Partners with Different Movie Tastes:
  • “Maybe family members should never watch movies with each other.” – Casey, [86:36]
  • Millie: “One of you has to be the Frank and one of you has to be the Julia in this situation. I’ll be your movie sub.” [86:45-86:52]
• Film Gripe of the Week:
  • Molly gripes about the trope where a character lies in the bath, submerges, and stares open-eyed into the camera:

    “No one has ever done this in real life...I think it’s generally meant to symbolize being overwhelmed, but I just find it hacky and annoying.” – Molly (listener), [86:52]

• Bonus digression into “crying in public places,” movies that make them weep, and music-triggered car cries.

---

Recommendations & Closing

[92:31–99:16]

Employee Picks

• Casey: Nightbreed (1990, dir. Clive Barker) – “If you like Hellraiser, you would like Nightbreed. Check out the director’s cut.” [93:27]
• Millie: Peeping Tom (1960, dir. Michael Powell) – One of the OG psychological horrors that explores the intersection of voyeurism, kink, and violence. A film long studied for its sexual and psychological implications:

  “For 1960, this is still pretty, you know, pretty effective...it still hits pretty hard.” – Millie, [96:17]

Next Episode Preview

• Tetsuo: The Iron Man (1989) – a wild, short (64 min.) Japanese horror/sci-fi deep cut to close out horror month.

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (w/ Timestamps)

• “I always thought I kind of resembled [Nancy]. She likes horror movies and snacks. Me too.” – Millie, [03:27]
• “The key is to know people that don’t have kids and maybe aren’t married...they are the gateway to fun.” – Millie, [16:23]
• “Frank is a master of the masters...He is a classic sex tourist.” – Millie, [45:22, 44:59]
• “This movie is ooey gooey, dude.” – Millie, [59:54]
• “Every man who sees [Julia] is like...It just goes to show what dogs men are.” – Casey, [61:41]
• “It feels really underground. It feels very queer. I know Clive Barker is queer. So it just feels like, I’m really attracted to things that are countercultural right now.” – Casey, [73:48]
• “Maybe family members should never watch movies with each other.” – Casey, [86:36]

---

Segment Timestamps

• Costume/Halloween chit-chat: [01:41–10:06]
• Film Diaries: [16:53–32:07]
• Hellraiser main discussion: [34:00–75:58]
• Listener film advice/gripe: [75:58–92:31]
• Employee Picks and Closings: [92:31–99:16]

---

Tone, Style, and Signature

The episode is as irreverent and knowledgable as always, mixing movie nerd detail with comedic candor and relatable confessions. Millie and Casey frame Hellraiser as both a product of goth/queer subculture and a unique artifact of 1980s horror, inviting listeners to revisit it with new eyes (and to embrace their own freakishness anytime—especially in Halloween season).

---

Follow & Participate

Write in with film advice requests, gripes, or “consensual gropes” at [e-mail], and follow the show on Instagram @dearmoviesiloveyou. Next up: Tetsuo: The Iron Man (1989)—watch along!

Transcript

[Millie Decherico]

This is exactly right.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

When you say Lego Star wars, the first thing you think of is imagination or action. Or both. Definitely both. Like with Jango Fett's Starship, I mean, with Stud Blasters, Seismic charges, and three minifigures, your kid is gonna be creating stories until the Banthas come home. And for yourself, there's the Jango Fett's Firespray class Starship LEGO set from the Ultimate Collector series. Enjoy some Jedi Master level mindfulness during your building time. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores.

[Millie Decherico]

If you're waiting for your AI to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Turn into ROI and wondering how long.

[Millie Decherico]

You have to wait, maybe you need.

[Casey O'Brien]

To do more than wait. Any business can use AI.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

IBM helps you use AI to change.

[Casey O'Brien]

How you do business. Let's create Smile to Business IBM.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4th. Shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap, and Olay Body wash. And save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Millie Decherico]

Happy Halloween, Casey, how's it going?

[Casey O'Brien]

Happy Halloween, Millie. How's it going so far this month? This Halloween month for you?

[Millie Decherico]

Pretty good. I've got a lot of things going on in my personal life, so it's kind of been a weird year.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm trying to get into the spooky season for sure. I'm, like, watching some horror movies. I've been doing, like, events with friends of mine. But I'm also kind of distracted by, you know, like, life stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

So it takes work.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

To really get into the spooky season. And a lot of that, you know. You know, you just. If you have real things going on, you can't really dive into that zone, you know? Well, Millie, do you have any costume ideas for Halloween this year? Are you dressing up as anything?

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, gosh, I don't know, dude. It just feels like every year I forget all of the ideas that I'd had.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is the other thing. You got to come up with your costume idea in, like, maybe.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

To properly get ready for it.

[Millie Decherico]

But I've done that in the past, and then I've completely forgotten that I bought wigs and so I was going to show you this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So like, I guess it was a couple years ago. I was like, wouldn't it be funny if I dressed like Nancy, the cartoon Nancy?

[Casey O'Brien]

Nancy.

[Millie Decherico]

You know who Nancy is?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I know Nancy.

[Millie Decherico]

She's got like short black, little curly hair and she wears red skirt.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's funny. Who's her pal? That. She's like Sluggo. Sluggo, yeah. Yes, I know Nancy.

[Millie Decherico]

So I was like, you know, I always thought I kind of resembled a little bit. I was like, I always felt like I was. I got kind of a Nancy vibe. She likes horror movies and snacks. Me too. And I was like, oh, I'm gonna go through the process of finding. Putting together a Nancy outfit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

And I collected all of these little garments and then bought a black wig and then completely forgot about it. Like 100% forgot about it. And this costume was in parts in my closet for like three years.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And then eventually I decided, you know what? I'm actually gonna wear it. And not only am I gonna wear it, I'm gonna wear it out to an event in Atlanta that happens every year where people are encouraged to dress up in costume. And I think most people who live here know exactly what I'm talking about. But then I was like, I'm just gonna put this on, do a lap and then go home. And so this was my little Nancy outfit. Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

It looks good. I would have been able to recognize that immediately.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, right. Nobody said to me, unfortunately.

[Casey O'Brien]

So you did a lap and left?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie Decherico]

Cuz I was like, I'm not catching any vibes. Nobody's really like, yo, it's Nancy. I think people were just like, there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Was no Sluggo there for you.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. That's for shame.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is Nancy actually old timey or is it just drawn old timey?

[Millie Decherico]

No, I think Nancy's been around since the 20s or something.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Crazy. Like that and not the 20s. We're in the old. The 1920s.

[Millie Decherico]

The 1920s, I forgot. Not the 2000 and 20s, the 1920s. But I feel like now like, you know, the comic strip or the comic has been, you know, kind of taken over by people over the years. And I feel like the person who does it now is really cool or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I mean, it feels really modern.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, that's what I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's funny.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, but she's cool. But I always liked Nancy because she was kind of a little firecracker. She liked horror movies and ice cream and her little pal Sluggo. Was super cute. They just hung out all the time and went on adventures and. Yeah, so that was my costume idea, the last costume idea I had, and that was many years ago. So that's. And you don't have.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so you have nothing for this Halloween?

[Millie Decherico]

No. Not at all. No.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I mean, my daughter's going as a Teletubby po. The smallest Teletubby.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so I got some Teletubby antenna that I'm gonna put on my head, and so does Trisha, so that'll be kind of fun. I'm gonna be Tinky Winky. I believe Trisha is gonna be Lala. And we don't have a Dipsy. If anybody wants to dress up as Dipsy and join our mom should be Dipsy. Wait, what did you say you'd be our dipsy?

[Millie Decherico]

I said your mom should be dipsy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my mom should be Dipsy. My mom emailed our. Forgot to write her back. And she yelled at me.

[Millie Decherico]

I can't believe you did that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. Bad son. But, you know, Halloween costumes, this is what I've done for the past several years. I kind of like the archetypical costumes. You know, I like ones that are like, you're a witch. You're a skeleton.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

You're a mummy.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I've just been a skeleton for, like, past several years. And I like that. It's so hard to get a. My worst nightmare is that I put a lot of effort into a costume, and people are like, who are you? You know?

[Millie Decherico]

So, yeah, I had a lot of great costumes in my 20s. Some would call iconic, to be honest.

[Casey O'Brien]

What were some of the highlights?

[Millie Decherico]

One year, I was slashed from Guns N Roses. That was very popular.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's good.

[Millie Decherico]

My most popular, though, was I was Gallagher for Halloween for, like, one year, and I was DJing at Mary's, and I actually smashed fruit in the back of the parking lot. And there was. Everybody came outside to the bar, and I actually bought a sledgehammer from Home Depot and returned it. I returned the sledgehammer, which was amazing.

[Casey O'Brien]

That. Wow, what an incredible costume. I, like, almost want to steal that because it's so good.

[Millie Decherico]

It was fun as shit. And I brought, like, mangoes, and, like, you know, I didn't do a watermelon because I don't know what happened. For some reason, the watermelon that I bought leaked, or it was like, some weird scenario, but I definitely smashed, like, melons and. And then people were just like, yo, smash this. Or whatever. It'd be Like, a full beer, I'd be like, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sick. And you got to return the sledgehammer. What a win.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. It was really kind of a magical time of my life.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. I wish I had, like, I don't have a good. There's no costume in my history where I was like, that was a good one.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. The Gallagher was probably the highlight. Yeah. And then for a long time as a. As a. As a kid, I dressed like Wayne Campbell from Wayne's World for like, four or five years in a row.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, that is blowing my mind right now. I went as Garth, and I didn't even have a Wayne. I didn't even have a Wayne.

[Millie Decherico]

If only we known each other, we could have gone trick or treating together.

[Casey O'Brien]

We need to get both the pics of this, and we can splice them together for socials. I gotta find the picture of me as Garth. I was obsessed with Wayne's World. That's so funny. Oh, my God.

[Millie Decherico]

So next year, I. I say that I come up to Minnesota and we actually go trick or treating as Wayne and girth.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, that's tight.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, I'm. I'm, like, not joking. I. I don't want to. I'm sorry. I. I know that candy is typically not given to people in their late 40s in costume, but it's happening.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, maybe we can go with my daughter. Or maybe we could go separately.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. We got to go with your kid. She's gonna get all the candy.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's slowing us down.

[Millie Decherico]

She can barely walk. I love that we're gonna go without your kid. That would be so funny if we went without your kid.

[Casey O'Brien]

And especially if I went to my neighbors. Hey, where's Patience? I don't know if I know.

[Millie Decherico]

Probably trick or treating somewhere else. This is our. This is our street.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is our turf. Oh, fuck, that's good. I really like this idea. Okay, great. This is great. We got Halloween plans next year.

[Millie Decherico]

Great.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's fabulous.

[Millie Decherico]

Let's do it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Millie, we got a big episode today. We are talking about a movie that I really like. I would say I love it. Hellraiser from 1987.

[Millie Decherico]

I feel like this episode's gonna get a little naughty.

[Casey O'Brien]

Naughty. Cheeky monkey. Yeah, it might. Although. Well, we'll get. We'll get into it. But I would. I do. I did write in the notes, I am not an expert in bdsm.

[Millie Decherico]

L dressed like a Bible salesman right now. They're like, I don't really know anything about bdsm.

[Casey O'Brien]

For those who can't see. I am really dressed like a Mormon missionary right now. I couldn't, I literally couldn't be more dressed as a Mormon missionary. I'm wearing a tie. I have a short button up, a short sleeve button up, white shirt. I just, my general genetic makeup makes me look very Mormon.

[Millie Decherico]

I think it's really great. Like he looks like a 1950s dad, which is, yeah, perfect.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. Well, so, yeah, we'll get into, we'll get into some of that with Hellraiser. And then we also have some film advice. Slash some grits gropes and gripes, consensual gropes. So lots to do on this episode. Very exciting.

[Millie Decherico]

It's gonna be great. So stay tuned. You're listening to Dear movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no?

[Casey O'Brien]

Check the box below.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

Does anything go better than Lego and Star Wars? I don't think so. Kids will love becoming a part of the galactic action while playing out their favorite adventures. Like with Jango Fett Starship. I mean, this LEGO set is fantastic. It features a detailed recreation of Jango Fett's starship with four stud shooters, a sight seismic charge dropping function and wings that rotate with gravity. Plus it has three Jango Fett with two blasters and a jetpack. Young Boba Fett and Llama Su, perfect for endless play. Now for the big fans, there's Jango Fett's fire spray class Starship from the Ultimate Collector series. Packed with details and surprises for fans, this large scale set is perfect for anyone hunting for a mindful building escape. Plus, you end up with a fantastic display piece. You can build this while your little ones build the kid set. You'll be like Django and Boba building an adventure. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in Lego retail stores.

[Casey O'Brien]

For over 50 years, they redefined rock. The spirit lives on Monday.

[Millie Decherico]

Warrior me me Stride today's time Saw.

[Casey O'Brien]

You me me, Getty Lee and Alex Lifeson. Rush Live 50 Something Tour. Sign up for pre sale access at Ticketmaster. Legends don't stop. They evolve. Rush.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4, shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash and save $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Millie Decherico]

Hello, everybody. You are listening to Dear Movies. I love you. This is a podcast for those who are in a relationship with movies. Sometimes that relationship, you know, might be a little sadomasochistic, if you will. Maybe light bondage, some role play. You know what I'm saying?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Yes. That's this. Yeah, that's exactly what this podcast is. Is all about. That's right.

[Millie Decherico]

My name is Millie Decherico, AKA Chili Decherico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o', Brien, AKA Casey O. Brains. For this month.

[Millie Decherico]

We're very close to Halloween. We've already talked about our Halloween costume for next year. And we're also in the middle of our Halloween month where we've done Halloween movies every week. We've done, so far, Midsommar. Last week was Jennifer's Body, and this week is Hellraiser, which I haven't seen since middle school. And I can confidently say I completely don't remember anything about it. I thought the. The end was the beginning. Like, it's all melding together.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I, you know. Do you feel any pressure with October to be like, I need to do more? Like, I feel kind of a pressure to be like, I have to put more work in to celebrate this month?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, of course, because there's so much going on. One of my friends has a calendar of events that he. It's a Google calendar of Halloween events that he sends to all of his friends. And it's like there's shit up all week long. Like, not. He puts in that calendar his own personal events, like parties that he's having at his own house. But then all of the dates for the haunted houses, all of the dates for all of the horror movies that are playing in town. And then also just sort of like, bars that have Halloween parties and stuff, like, public. It's crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, I'm just like, I'm jealous of your friends. I'm jealous of the friends you have, Millie. I wish I had that social network here in Minneapolis. Maybe they're out there. I don't know. Maybe I have to create it.

[Millie Decherico]

But I think the key is to. I think the key is to know people that don't have kids and that maybe aren't married.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I gotta really go into the deviant circles to find these people that are opening, you know, opening puzzle boxes to release the Cenobites. That's the type of people I need to start hanging out with. But I think you're right. I think people without kids, they are the gateway to fun. Should we get into our film diary?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And here's the tea on the film diary we actually watched. The past couple of film diaries have been extremely light, wouldn't you say? And I think we made up.

[Casey O'Brien]

Embarrassed, honestly, to talk about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Is that why we went so hard? Is that why we went so hard because we were embarrassed?

[Casey O'Brien]

Maybe I was embarrassed. I felt humiliated. Shamed. I didn't find it kinky at all. And. But now we're back with a vengeance. This week, I was gonna say, I.

[Millie Decherico]

Think we both watched at least five movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

That's great. Go first.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I watched five movies in addition to watching Hellraiser, so that's pretty good for exactly one week. So I watched a bunch of movies this week. And let me know. I'm not gonna go in depth into all of them, but if any of them, like, you know, strike a chord with you, let me know first. We watched the Adventures of buckaroo banzai from 1984. This is a screening at the Trial On Theater in Minneapolis. Now, it was at this event called Tape Freaks, where you don't know what the movie is before you get there. So I was like, oh, it's October. It'll be a horror movie. And it wasn't so a little, like, peeved, I guess. I was, like, annoyed. I was like, what the fuck are we doing? And it usually is always a horror movie, so. So I was, like, extra peeved. But I'd seen that movie before. Tons of fun, lots of ideas, zany, good time. Then I watched silver bullet from 1985. Werewolf movie with Corey Haim and Gary Busey. Is it Stephen King? It is a Stephen King, yes. Werewolf terrorizes a small town. Gary Busey terrorizes the audience because he is so crazy. I just feel like his energy is so intense and frightening. I don't know. So that was a hoot. Then I watched Brian De Palma's the Fury from 1978.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Kind of like Scanners or like X Men. It's like a school for kids with psychic abilities and telekinesis. Telekinesis was really in at this time, you know, with, like, Carrie, which Brian De Palma also did Scanners. There's a bunch of other movies from that time about people who could blow up with their mind. The Dead Zone.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you seen the Fury?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I haven't seen it in probably, like, 20 years.

[Casey O'Brien]

And we also saw let's Scare Jessica to death from 1971. Have you seen this?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, I've talked about it like three times on this podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, have you? Oopsies.

[Millie Decherico]

Oopsies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah, I really loved it. I thought it was great. A really kind of spooky hippie movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Folk horror. That's what I brought it up, I think the last time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, okay.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Although actually I think we cut that. No, maybe we didn't.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know. Whenever I think you have brought it up though.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

On this show. Great movie. I love this. It was very effective. Spooky, vibey, Vibey movie. Yeah, it's kind of like in, you know, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre is a very viby 70s movie. This is also a very viby 70s movie about a woman who like has recently checked out of like a mental institution and moves to the countryside of with her husband and there's a woman at the house where they're moving into and they let her stay. Yeah, I would have never. But it's. It was good. It was effective. Then I saw a really silly movie from Yugoslav Czech Republic from 1981 called Visitors from the Arcana Galaxy. This is like a really zany, fun practical effects movie about a science fiction author whose ideas all of a sudden start coming to life. And particularly one novel he's writing about these visitors from outer space and these like goofy ass like puppet monsters start popping people's heads off. And it was a hoot. I had a great time. And that's it. That's my film diary.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm surprised. Like I'm again, I'm just like happy that we went from watching zero movies for like two weeks to watching five movies in a week. I feel like that's.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know I had to get back in the gym, you know, the mental. The movie gym and start. I was out of shape and so I'm back. What did you watch? Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, God. Dude, my shit was so intense this week. Yes, I watched a lot of intense films and not, I mean even the last film that I watched was intense in its own way intense. Unlike the others. But so I rewatched four movies and then I watched a brand new watch for one. And my first time watch this week was a little movie called Emmanuel from 1974. A French erotic film classic. A absolute classic. Sylvia Cristel plays Emmanuel and it's like, I mean, honestly, like for all that I'd heard about it over the years, I was kind of like, yeah, I mean a horny European guy definitely directed this movie. Sure. It's a little bit like a. It's kind of this weird. Like, it's kind of an erotic fantasy. Cause it's basically like this young, beautiful model who's married to this guy. She wants to explore herself sexually, and he's like, go forth and do these crazy things. And it's kind of these series of weird, like, vignettes where she, like, you know, does these little. Kind of. There's like, these little scenes in the movie where she's, like, doing something sexual. The thing about Emmanuel that's interesting from a 2025 perspective is that it was definitely directed by a horny French guy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mm.

[Millie Decherico]

Meaning, like, it's a lot of male fantasy bullshit. But then also, it is extremely vibey. Like, the clothes. The. Like. It's like, basically Call Me by youy Name meets a Eric Rohmer film. It's very, like, French people playing squash and, like, you know, wearing, like, no bras underneath sundresses and going to, you know, cocktail parties and sh. You know, kind of fabulous in that way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

But then also, the sex of it, too, is sort of like. It's not. It's like softcore. It's not, you know, from a 2025 perspective. You're like, oh, I've seen worse on HBO at this point. But it's. Yeah, I. But I appreciate it being kind of, you know, I wanted to watch it because I know. I knew it was sort of a. A big one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Excellent.

[Millie Decherico]

Then I went and in the theater, rewatched the original Nightmare on Elm street from 1984.

[Casey O'Brien]

A classic. One of my.

[Millie Decherico]

A classic. So funny, though.

[Casey O'Brien]

So great.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, so funny and kind of bad in parts. Like, it's just. It is like, Freddy is terrifying in this movie. That's the one thing that I will say about the original Nightmare is that it's like he hadn't developed his standup routine yet. So he's kind of just legit scary in the first Nightmare on Elm Street. But there's also just, like, you know, it's like watching the first iteration of something that you've gone on to see, like, hundreds of times. You're just like, man, this is, like, such a funny kind of bad film. But it's really, really fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

So those movies. Yeah, I feel, like, not a spoiler. I feel like that movie ended very. Like, I was very disturbed by the ending of the movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Yeah. Because there's no, like, real resolution. You're like, okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, he's not. He's still here, I guess.

[Millie Decherico]

Ye.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

With his, like, Freddy drop Top convertible.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's right.

[Millie Decherico]

So rewatched that in the theater. It was great. Then I rewatched. I think it was. Man, I must have been a maniac going to Videodrome, because I rented three of these movies from Videodrome, and they were probably like, what is wrong with her? She's so depraved. But I rewatched a movie from 1975, which is called Ilsa. She Wolf of the SS. And this is. And again, another one of these, like, infamous sort of, like, exploitation sexploitation. Nazi exploitation films. Yes. There is a microtrana called Nazi Exploitation. But it was basically like, when I was in high school and in college, I'd heard that this movie existed and was like, this has got to be the most fucked up, depraved film I've ever seen in my life. Like, I heard about it, and I was actually kind of scared to watch it. But then I eventually rented it when I. And I was probably, like, I don't know, a freshman in college, maybe a sophomore in college. And at the time, I had never seen. I hadn't seen much sexploitation before. And so I was like, wow, this is, like, so intense. And it's, like, really violent and kind of gnarly. And it stars, you know, Diane Thorne, who is this actress who was known for her giant boobs. You know what I'm saying? It was like, it's like this, you know, and it's giving, like, you know, this kind of, like. I mean, I know it's, like, really problematic in terms of, like, what it's sort of talking about, but it's like. There's, like, this campy Hogan's Heroes ness to it mixed with this, like, Inglorious Bastards kind of vibe. So it's like, I don't know, like, it's in context with everything else. I was basically like, you know what? I'm gonna rewatch this movie and see if it still hits. And weirdly enough, I was like, it's kind of boring.

[Casey O'Brien]

Isn't that interesting? Yeah, you've become such a pervert over these years that these are, like, it's child's play to you.

[Millie Decherico]

I was bored to tears by Ilsa, apparently. No, I like boring in the sense that the pacing of the movie is kind of fucked up. It's like, not. It's not very salacious. Like, I thought it was so, like. Well, like, crazy, but it's not. It's really mostly just violent and unpleasant, even Though I will say the blood and all of the guts and all that stuff is very cartoonish and over the top. Yeah, it's just kind of like, I don't know, just sort of like too much. But also, we've moved the marker.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

For what? Fuck quote unquote. What is fucked up? We've moved the marker that it almost feels like it's this like relic of another time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

But anyway, so I did rewatch that. I won't have to see it again. How about that? I won't have to see again.

[Casey O'Brien]

There we go.

[Millie Decherico]

But then I had to watch this movie again because we've talked about it. I rewatched Durfan 1982.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's about a. It's about a teenage girl who's obsessed with the lead singer of this like new wave German new wave band. And the music's good too. I thought I was like. I like the. The vibe.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh yeah. Music is fantastic. Mondo macabre, that. They're the ones that put out the Blu ray. Because, you know, this was pretty hard to watch for a very long time. I think I had like a bootleg copy of it. There was a couple of interviews that they did with the director. And he's a really interesting person. Like, he's like kind of this punk rock. He comes from like punk rock. Eckhart Schmidt is his name. And you know, there was. He tells the story about, you know, just sort of the production. And then there was also kind of drama between him and Desiree Nosbush who played, you know, the teen girl in the film. Yeah, but God. God damn. It is so good. Like, it is so good. And it's really like. I mean, talk about pacing. It is like a glacially paced.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is. It's so slow, sparse, but then you.

[Millie Decherico]

Have got this like, like throbbing electro music.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And it's like very German. It's very like, you know, electro early electronic music. It's so good. I loved it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love the music performances on like they have like the. What is it? The top of the pop style show that the like band is playing on. And those performances are really funny and good.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it's kind of like imagine if like a teenage girl was obsessed with Gary Newman or something. I just kept imagining that.

[Casey O'Brien]

But like here in my car. It's very Gary Newman.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. He. It looks like he's either. It's like the guy that is the R is his name. His mysterious R. He's kind of like Gary Newman meets a guy from Kraftwerk meets, you Know, like the guy from OMD or something. It's like very, very cool. And I had seen like a lot of it. I hadn't seen the whole thing, but the parts that I remember were the important parts. And when they hit, I was like, fuck, yeah. That is insane. Yeah, Like, I was like, that's insane. And so good.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I love that movie.

[Millie Decherico]

And then the last one I'll mention again, probably a lot different from any of the movies I just mentioned, but insane in its own way is that I rewatched all that jazz from 1979.

[Casey O'Brien]

And in some ways a horror movie about aging.

[Millie Decherico]

I think it is. Sure, there's boobs in it too. Hell, I mean, it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

There we go. How did it make you want to smoke 800 cigarettes? Oh, my God.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, I can't.

[Casey O'Brien]

You could smell Roy Scheider. You could smell his leathery skin in this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, I said this on I Saw what yout did. But I was basically like, you know, he's our greatest. I think he's the finest actor, cigarette smoking actor that we've ever had in Hollywood because he manages to be able to speak completely perfectly with a cigarette in his mouth. He's not doing the thing where it's like this, where he's like holding, you know, he can enunciate perfectly with a cigarette dangling out of his mouth.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So great movie. What a movie. What a film. Fabulous. Let's close up that diary.

[Millie Decherico]

Close.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, it is heavy.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

When you say LEGO Star wars, the first thing you think of is imagination or action. Or both. Definitely both. Like with Jango Fett's starship, I mean, with stud blasters, seismic charges, and three minifigures, your kid is gonna be creating stories until the Banthas come home. And for yourself, there's the Jango Fett's Firespray class Starship LEGO set from the Ultimate Collector series. Enjoy some Jedi Master level mindfulness during your building time. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in Lego retail stores.

[Casey O'Brien]

For over 50 years. They redefined rock, the spirit lives on and Alex Lifeson Rush Live 50 Something Tour. Sign up for presale access at Ticketmaster. Legends don't stop, they evolve. Rush.

[Ryan Seacrest]

Hey, it's Ryan Seacrest for Albertsons and Safeway. Now through November 4, shop the annual beauty event and save $5 when you spend $25 on select beauty products. Shop in store or online for items like Dove Body Wash, Native Body Wash, Cetaphil gentle skin cleanser, Dr. Squatch body wash, Neutrogena Hydro Boost Water Gel, Dial Liquid Hand Soap and Olay Body wash. And say $5 when you spend $25 or more. Offer ends November 4th. Restrictions apply. Offers may vary. Visit albertsons or safeway.com for more details.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Ooh.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're getting into our main topic today, which is Hellraiser from 1987, directed by Clive Barker, written by Clive Barker, based off his book the Hellbound Heart. And just to do a little, you know, cataloging, I suppose, this is a horror movie. The themes. Bdsm, demons, insert I'm a demon quote here.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm a demon.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm a demon. Satanism, evil stepmoms, I would say is a theme. Yeah. Some of the standout actors. Now, I put Doug Bradley as Pinhead because it's the first time he played Pinhead. And then I also put Ashley Lawrence as Kirsty, which Millie wrote. Lol. Really? Well, I just think she's good. I think she's a good final girl in this. All right, famous quotes from this movie. We'll tear your soul apart. I can't really think of any other famous quotes for that come from this movie, can you?

[Millie Decherico]

Actually, I would say, come to Daddy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Come to Daddy. Yes. That is. Yeah. Millie sent me a picture of a bloodied Frank from this movie, a skinless Frank saying, come to Daddy. And it was sort of scary to see.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Personal connections to Millie and Casey. Now, I guess my personal connection to this movie is that it's an absolute VHS classic. The COVID scared me so much as a kid. I was, like, really intrigued and horrified by this movie. It just felt so adult and, like, foreign and frightening to me. And I feel like I was scared to see it. I didn't see it until I was 31 years old. That's how frightened I was of it. I had to be in my 30s. I had to be married to protect myself from this movie. So that's. But now I'm, like, a huge Clive Barker fan. I just purchased his Books of Blood, volumes one through three, and I can't wait to read them. But I love Clive Barker now, and so that's my only personal connection to it, really. Millie, what about you?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I mean, okay, straight up, I remember in high school, like, or when I was high school age, teenaged, it seemed like the only people that liked Hellraiser were, like, goth industrial kids.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

You know what I'm saying?

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like it was a signifier of a real, like, punk rock, or not even punk, but, like, A person who, like, was cool and intense and outsider.

[Millie Decherico]

It was like the. The archetype was somebody who was into gothic or industrial music, you know, maybe a little light fetish wear, like, you know, leather pants or like a little bustiers or, like, you know, would wear, like, definitely, like, boots and like, leather, you know, dabbled in that world of, like, fantasy, the Renaissance Festival, sci fi, like the whole. Like, that whole universe. And there was a store that still exists in downtown Atlanta called Junkman's Daughter. And it was like, if you were an alternative kid in the 90s, this was like where you got all your shit. They sold Doc Martens, they sold all kinds of, like, horror movie and rock and roll T shirts, posters. You could get like, you know, I don't know, like, you could get like, you know, weird tapestries for your bedroom and incense. It was kind of a catch all for alternative culture. And it's still there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did they sell, like, boxes that would open a portal to hell at this. At Junk Man's Daughter, I'm sure, because.

[Millie Decherico]

They would sell like, you know, anything occult, witch stuff, you know, tarot, like all this stuff. I mean, it was kind of like, again, just like for people who were not normal. You know what I'm saying, dude. And I was fascinated by the kids that were into Hellraiser because they. At Junkman's Daughter was like, front and center. They had the Hellraiser T shirts with Pinhead on them. And straight up, Pinhead terrified me. Like I was. And I remember seeing this movie in middle school again. Didn't remember shit about it. And now part of me wonders if I'd actually seen one of the sequels instead of the original, because I kind of barely remembered the plot. But I did remember Pinhead, and I remembered the other. His little gang, let's just say the Cenobites. The Cenobites, right. And I remember being terrified of him particularly, and I couldn't understand why he had pins in his head and he was just. Was like. Had that deep British voice. Just a demon.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm a demon. Yeah. Scary. I feel like. Like, I think at the college radio station where I went to college, there was like a Pinhead sticker. And I was just like, ooh, cool. Like, it was just like kind of signif. Signified, like, we don't give a fuck.

[Millie Decherico]

There's a difference, though, I will say, because, you know, of course, now Pinhead is one of the kind of classic figures of Horro, like Freddy Krueger and Jason and Michael Myers and, you know, people like that But I feel like Pinhead is sort of an off ramp from those guys. He's a little bit more Clive Barkery. I mean, he's kind of a little bit more. Because that's the thing that I think I really remember about kids that liked Hellraiser is that they were really into Clive Barker. They were into, like, gothic. Yeah. You know, fetishy, BDSmy type of stuff. And I feel like, you know, Clive Barker has talked about how he's been in those communities over the years. So it all kind of melded together, I guess I would say, like, you know, versus, like somebody who was into Jason Voorhees. Maybe not as. Not as kinky, perhaps, who knows? But you know what I mean? Like, comparatively speaking.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Now let's get into the plot a little bit of this movie so people know what the frick is going on. Frank. We start with Frank. Frank's a freak. He's a little freak. He can never get enough pleasure. He's a hedonist. And so he seeks out this puzzle box in Morocco. And once it's opened, it unleashes a new dimension of carnal pleasures unlike anything available on earth. But when he does it, what it does is it unleashes a gang of leather clad demons. I'm a demon named the Cenobites. Their leader is Pinhead, played by Doug Bradley. And as soon as he opens his box, Frank's flesh gets ripped from his body by hooks and he is subjected to a hellish world of pleasure and pain unimaginable to humans. So that kind of is the beginning. That's sort of the world we're entering into now. I knew Frank was bad, a bad dude, because his fingernails were dirty as hell. Did you notice that?

[Millie Decherico]

I guess I did, yeah. I was like, I guess he is a hellraiser because he's out there, like, living real dirty. So at the beginning of the film, he's sort of. You kind of see his living conditions, which is that he sleeps on a mattress on the floor. He's got a suitcase that I guess he's using as, like, a nightstand that has, like, you know, pictures of, like, naked ladies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Is that. Can I be really. Can I just. A sidebar. Were you a guy, a teenage boy that had, like, posters of hot ladies on his wall?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, do you think I was. Do you think I had, like. I can't even think of the stereotypical.

[Millie Decherico]

Ones, like, like Pamela Anderson or like, you know, like. Yeah, like Yasmine Bleeth, like anybody from Baywatch or Like, I didn't have Carmen.

[Casey O'Brien]

Electra up on my wall or even.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, what's the classic poster? Farrah Fawcett or something like that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, or there's like the Pink Floyd covers with the women's butts.

[Millie Decherico]

Or Even just simply generic 80s hot ladies, like lying on Ferraris and stuff. Like, can you imagine that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, get real here. You know me, okay? You think I didn't have a Garden State poster on my wall? Because I did.

[Millie Decherico]

I just like, I cannot believe the idea that like boys that I like went to middle school and high school with were ever guys that would have like, you know, David Lee Roth looking model chicks in high, high waist bikini briefs, like just lying on cars or like, you know, I mean, it's just like they used to make posters like this and sell them at Spencer's Gifts. You could buy them.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean I. Spencer's Gifts was like my cenobite realm. That's where I like, I would go in there and like look around and look at the devious pleasures of. Oh, of course, I don't know that existed.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh yeah. You could get like a postcard to send to your friend at camp that was like a naked 90 year old woman with her tits hanging to her stomach and be like, miss you or whatever. It was just always like sex humor.

[Casey O'Brien]

And just a bunch of like shit humor. There's a lot of south park stuff you could buy there.

[Millie Decherico]

A lot of horny, horny things. Horny gifts. And that's the thing that I was like noticing about Frank and the way that he lived was I was like, yo, he's gross and he's got maggots covering literally everything and he's got naked ladies on the inside of a suitcase to look at when he sleeps.

[Casey O'Brien]

But you know, like, obviously Frank is a deviant. But I also was like, Frank is interesting. He seems very cultured. He feels very worldly. You think he's very worldly? He goes to Morocco to buy this fuck puzzle box.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, because normal sex, the, you know, on this plane of existence is just so vanilla.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen.

[Casey O'Brien]

That he needs to level up. He needs to go to an alternate dimension.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, he's a classic sex tourist. Let's get serious. He would, you know, like, first of all, like, looks wise. He's very intimidating. He kind of looks like if Eli Roth and Bobby Cannavale had a baby. Like, he's got like dark features and he's big and tall and he's a motherfucker. He's like tattoos he carries around a switchblade. He's like. At one point at the beginning of the film, it's revealed that, yeah, he's had a lot of, you know, interesting sex in his life. There's like, pictures of him, like, with behind ladies with, like, ball gags in their mouths and things. He's a wild man. He's a sex tourist, though, which is why he goes to Morocco to buy this. It's almost like the concept of the movie really is the idea that here's a guy that's had so much kinky sex in his life that he's like, I gotta level up. Time to go to Morocco. Never enough Morocco is. Morocco is the land of hedonistic pleasures. And I will go and buy some weird relic from another time and hopefully that'll just help me be, like, finally clean the pipes, like, have even weirder sex. I don't know. It was kind of a question.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that's the thing I wanted to ask is, like, did the box work in the way that he wanted it to? Because his, like, flesh and soul are torn apart and pleasure and pain come into one being. But it seems like it worked the way it actually. He actually accomplished what he wanted, even though he's in some, like, hellish dimension, you know.

[Millie Decherico]

But was that okay? I guess maybe I don't know enough about the story. Did he know that when he bought the box, he.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he said he goes. I knew I was either calling upon angels or demon, hell or heaven, and I didn't care which came because he just needed. He had this desire for some type of pleasure beyond our earthly realm, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So he was trying to have an idea.

[Millie Decherico]

He was trying to get juiced. Yeah, I can get juiced.

[Casey O'Brien]

He didn't care. He just wanted to. He needed to know the other side. So I do feel like it did work in the way that he sort of wanted to.

[Millie Decherico]

So he was kind of game for whatever was going to happen. Whether or not he was going to have the greatest orgasm of his life or he was going to have his flesh ripped apart. He didn't care.

[Casey O'Brien]

In retrospect, I think he would say it was a regret, but. But I do think he knew kind of what was coming. So. Okay, moving on. So we know about Frank. We got Frank. Okay, so now we meet Larry, played by Andrew Robinson, who you may know as Garrick from Deep Space Nine. Star Trek fans out there. He's Frank's dorky ass brother, and he moves into their childhood home where Frank was living and is disgusting and totally, like, nasty. All the stuff that Frank left behind is nasty. So Larry moves in there with his second wife, Julia, played by Claire Higgins. And Julia seems to hate Larry. And Larry's oblivious to this. But Larry assumes Frank, his brother, is either off looking for pleasure somewhere in the world or is in jail or maybe dead. He doesn't really know, but he's not there. And this is also where we meet Kirsty, played by Ashley Lawrence, the girl that Millie hates and I think did a really good job in this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Please.

[Casey O'Brien]

And she's also there. It's sort of hard to tell where they're telling you this movie takes place, which maybe we'll get into later, but it's England, essentially, so they've all moved to England. And she's gotten a job there, too, and her own apartment. She's not living at the house with them. She hates Julia, her stepmom. And we learn Julia is actually obsessed with Frank and was lovers with Frank. And I don't know why they split up, but she's obsessed with Frank. And she finds a picture of him in the house and wants him back and doesn't like Larry. But we don't know where Frank is at this time. I mean, we kind of do, but. Yeah, now this house is nasty.

[Millie Decherico]

I. Okay, maybe it's because I'm in the process of buying a house for the first time. I'm like, there's just so many things wrong with this little transaction because, like, it's apparently a house that belonged in the family until, like, yeah, I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was their childhood home.

[Millie Decherico]

The childhood home of Frank and Anna, Larry and Larry. And, you know, again, Frank's been kind of squatting in it, weirdly, for many years. And then they just kind of show up and they're like, yeah, it's our house. What do you think? Yeah, let's just move in on Sunday.

[Casey O'Brien]

And they don't know if they. They're like, Frank might be there. Like, they don't. They're like, oh, he was here. They didn't even know.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, yeah, I mean, they already made the decision to move in. They hadn't even gone up the stairs all the way because there's definitely a room up there that is not passing any kind of inspection or appraisal. Like, it's disgusting. I mean, it feels like it had been firebombed and not cleaned up. And that's the other thing, too, is that, like, the house is disgusting. They did not do a deep clean when they moved in. They're already to bring a mattress up the stairs and there's nails coming out of the wall. I'm like, come on, guys.

[Casey O'Brien]

Maybe things are different in England. I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know. I would just say if I'm going to move into a house with someone and it's like, oh, it's our old house. We're not going to clean it before we move in. We're actually not even going to look through it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And we, we also, we also learn that Julia, like we said, is obsessed with Frank. And they have these flashbacks to when they first met and first. Which actually happened within 10 minutes of each other. Because in this flashback she like meets the brother of her husband for the first time and he seduces her immediately. And he's like, he's basically like, would you do anything for me? And she's like, yes, I would do anything for you. And I mean, he's got that mojo.

[Millie Decherico]

I actually love this for Julia, to be honest, because honestly, like, Larry is a fucking nerd. Like, he's a nerd.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's a fucking dork.

[Millie Decherico]

He's like. I mean, speaking of the stepfather, dare I say he's dorkier than Terry o' Quinn. And the stepfather, like, he's just kind of.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, but Terry Oquinnan, the stepfather was like, you know, deviously dorky. That was like a kind of a facade he put on. But Larry is truly dorky. He would have had a Garden State poster in his high school bedroom. Probably. He would have ran in the same circles.

[Millie Decherico]

Come on, listen. And I know if I know a middle aged woman, I mean, you got like some hot dude standing on your doorstep that's like, what's up? You gonna invite me in?

[Casey O'Brien]

In the rain?

[Millie Decherico]

In the rain. He's got like a five o' clock shadow when he shows up. He's a real dom. And you're like, fuck. Okay? And like, it's funny because they like fuck on her wedding dress, which I think is so hilarious.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And she's. She's immediately turned out by him. I mean, basically he like takes a knife and cuts her bra strap. And I'm like, sadly, that would work on me though. I mean, that's the thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

God.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, you don't know. You don't know a woman in her 40s. Casey, please.

[Casey O'Brien]

I guess I'm worried that. I'm worried that some Frank is gonna come to my door and take Trisha away.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm not saying. I'm not saying a goddamn thing. But, you know, you just might need to go and you know, look up BDSM on Wikipedia. Maybe it can help you in your situation.

[Casey O'Brien]

Back to bdsm, I said I am no expert in this, but this is a world that is very much explored in this movie. And I think I am tantalized by it. I'm intrigued by it because it does seem so off limits and kind of scary. And so maybe that's my attraction to this movie as well in that it's a tantalizing world that I'm not familiar with.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, Casey, let's put it, let's, let's put the facts down, shall we? Grew up Catholic. That's a huge. That opens a portal to this world just by nature.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm just throwing that out there. You also are a huge fan of like David Cronenberg and like all the like David lynch, all these like fucked up dudes. I'm like, come on, it's not going to take. The road is very short to this. I know, salacious environment. And when it comes down to it, I don't listen. I'm not. There is no way in hell I'm going to purport that I know fine details about this world. I won't tell you about my personal life, but I will say that it is a catch all. I mean, honestly, like at this point, bdsm, the term itself, which of course you know what it stands for, but it's like, you know, it's kind of a catch all for just like I would say kind of non normative erotic interests which can be anywhere from having your balls tied up to thinking that you might want to get squished by a 50 foot woman in your dreams. And that might be a fantasy. Like it's just wide ranging things, I feel like. And there's a lot of branches on the tree. And that's what I do think about the world of Clive Barker is that it does feel like it sits in that world. I mean even Candyman, there's moments of Candyman where I feel like that it kind of goes into that realm. I mean, bare minimum, his shit is kind of sexy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And not, but not like kind of sexy horror, dangerous. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

And not like totally. And I, you know, you brought up David Cronenberg because there's a lot of that in his stuff too. I'm thinking of like the movie Crash, you know, willingly being a victim of a car crash. And in Candyman, which is written by Clive Barker, you know, the Candyman is always like, be my victim. And I Don't remember the name of the main character in Candyman, but she is very tantalized and is like tempted to be his victim, it seems in that movie. So there is sort of this play of, you know, doms and subs and willingly being sub, you know, subjected to torture and being the victim. Willingly, you know.

[Millie Decherico]

Right, because like, Frank is like, I mean, he is a. He is a master of the masters, right? He's very aggressive, very, you know, like very much like giving off that extreme masculine, dominating energy. And she's just this kind of like, okay, I'm down. My husband is so vanilla and boring that I'm kind of into this. And then she immediately becomes, I mean, she is okie doked by this guy. Like, she's basically like, oh, yeah, I'll do it. I'll do anything for you and include it. Which includes like this craziness that the unfolds as the movie goes on. But it's. It starts very quickly to your original point.

[Casey O'Brien]

It starts very. He is the key. I mean, he really unlocks her immediately. And I'll get into. Actually I'll get into this next part of the movie. So while they're moving. Millie referred to this already, but there's like a. A nail that's stuck out from the wall and Larry really cuts his hand and it is goopy and gloppy blood and it is all over the place and it's gross. But he drops some in that nasty firebombed room that Millie referred to, which is like this disgusting, dirty room that they never clean up. And it's just empty up there. And that was like Frank's little pleasure room. That's where his like the Cenobites came and tore him apart in. But Larry's blood mixes with like some remnants of Frank's body that were in there. And that brings Frank back from like this hell dimension. And he comes back as this like goopy skeleton, fleshy blob kind of guy. He's not even like fully back, but Julia finds him and he's like, you need to kill. You need to bring back people to this place so you can kill them. And I will drink their blood and that will heal me and bring me back to this earthly realm because I've escaped the Cenobites and you need to help me. And she does, willingly and she starts seducing men and bringing them back to her house, killing them and feeding them to Frank.

[Millie Decherico]

So this is the part of the movie that gets a little sort of. The details get a little confusing. Because I'm like. He's basically like, I'm this pile of goo that starts forming back into a skeletal muscular human shape. The more blood I come in contact with, it feels very like. And it's like the blood feels like it kind of starts, like, getting absorbed. It sort of reminds me a little bit of the, like, Terminator 2 liquid cop thing where the droplets just kind of come together. I'm like, I guess I don't understand how it works. And then it's real.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's real gray. It's just kind of like blood. There was blood dropped in the room where Frank was destroyed by the Cenobites, and that brought him back, but it's not really explained why that happens.

[Millie Decherico]

I just kept thinking the entire time of Daniel Day Lewis, and there'll be blood where he's like, give me the blood. Give me the blood, Lord.

[Casey O'Brien]

Give me the blood, Lord. Give me the blood.

[Millie Decherico]

That's what Frank is basically telling Julia. Give me the blood. So he can. And he's like, don't look at me. Don't look at me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Don't look at me.

[Millie Decherico]

I was like, too late, guy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, well, it's just funny. It's like you're not really in a position to be making a lot of demands. Goopy. I mean, I. It is surprising that she. But she. He's got that hold on her, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Would you say? I mean, speaking of gooby. God, this movie is ooey gooey, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it really is. Like.

[Millie Decherico]

It's like.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's nasty. I tried to eat lunch while I was watching it. I was eating a turkey sandwich, and I had to pause the movie because I was so grossed out.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it's like a tool video. It's very, like. It's like maggoty rat infested. Pieces of, like, flesh hanging on hooks. But then there's blood, there's pus, there's. There's every. And I'm like, why has this got to be so. Oopy. Goopy. Gross.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. Doesn't she, like. Doesn't she, like, put Frank's, like, fleshy, bloody fingers in her mouth while they're like. Like, he's not even fully back yet. And he's like, let me touch you. And it's like, oh, I know.

[Millie Decherico]

He, like, traces her lips with his. Like, nasty. You know, it's like his skin hasn't formed yet, so he's still got, like, you know, tendons exposed. And you're like, plus, he lived dirty to begin with.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. So I know. Yeah, it is funny when he's like putting on dress shirts and they're just completely soaked with blood. It's like, why are you, why are you getting dressed? Something that needs to be sort of understood in this movie too is that Julia, the played by Claire Higgins, is like in the world of this movie. And she's a beautiful woman, but she's like the hottest woman of all time. Like every man who sees her is like, like the movers. And she like so easily seduces men and brings them to this strange house. I mean, maybe it just goes to show what like dogs men are, that they'll just like follow a woman into the most horrifying situation. But it is sort of funny the ease with which she just brings these doofuses back to the house.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I would, I saw that in her notes. And I will say maybe perhaps in her defense, and I'm not saying this because in the movie she's effectively like a middle aged woman. She's like this guy's second wife and you know, he has a daughter who's an adult. So it's kind of like, yeah, she's probably like a middle aged woman. And. But here's the tea about the 80s, right? And we're talking about 1987. This was like the Melody Griffith and working girl era.

[Casey O'Brien]

She has very Melanie Griffith hair in this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And that's the thing is that she has a real kind of like, no nonsense business lady look about her. She's also British and she kind of reminds me, I think, because I remember this from being a kid. There was this kind of weird goth, like hot lady archetype that was this. She kind of has this like Susan Sarandon from the Hunger vibe.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I see that redhead, like short kind of curly hair, you know, British, very important, but kind of had this like, like, I don't know, this weird kind of business lady look.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it was also kind of like business lady vampire.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Kind of business vampire from 1987. This is like exactly what I'm talking about. You. You clocked it. Do you know what I'm saying, though?

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like I 100 know what you're talking about. Yes. Where I'm like eyeshadow.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. She's got like her little black lace, you know, bustier underneath her, like sensible work clothes. And she's got. She'll take her pumps off and it'll be like she kind of goes from like day to night very easily. But she's got, she's definitely like A redhead or maybe even a platinum blonde, but then it's kind of short hair and then, like, British. Yeah, that's a goth. That's a goth girlfriend or wife, I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

Think. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

In this era.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Absolutely. And it is interesting because her character is very dominating. Like, I just feel like she is, like, taking these men home, like, just by her sheer will. And she's obviously the more dominant one in the relationship with Larry, you know, and so maybe that's why she's attracted to Frank, because she actually wants to be a sub, you know, she wants to be told what to do and not be the boss all the time, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, I don't. I think you know more about BDSM than you think.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting. Okay, so Kirsty gets involved. She discovers what's going on with Julia and Frank, which. It is funny that, like, there's just, like, a skinless man living in their house, and they don't notice that he's there, but. But Kirsty discovers what's going on, sees skinless Frank, and he. It seems like he tries to kind of kill her, but she steals his little pleasure puzzle box. And she opens it, and guess what? Those damn Cenobites come and they're like, hi. We're gonna, like, take you to pleasure dimension and torture you for a million years. But she's like, frank escaped you guys? And he's like. They're like, no, no, he didn't. And she's like, yeah, he did. And in ex. Like, in exchange for him, can you give me my freedom? And they're kind of like, maybe so. But it is funny. I thought it was funny when she was like, frank escaped you? And they're like. She's like, no, he did. And he's like, well, let's say that he did. And I don't know. I just thought that was like. It's funny that the Cenobites made a mistake to me, but.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, let me ask you this, first of all, again, in 1987 and the years after, when I had seen this movie, I was obviously, like. My brain was so little that I was not processing any of the fine details about Hellraiser. Okay. I was like, I don't know. I thought Pinhead, first of all, was in the movie a lot more than he actually was.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, he's not in it very much. I would say, like, less than 10 minutes of screen time.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah. And I. You know, from. If you would have asked me in middle school, I would have said, oh, he's the entire movie But I didn't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So I don't remember any of that. And I also don't remember what he was. I didn't realize that he came from the Pleasure Dome or the pleasure center of another.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's not hell, it's like another dimension.

[Millie Decherico]

Sure. And so that, I guess my question, because a cetobite is essentially people from his land, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And they're all like, dressed like what you would call probably like Matrix.

[Casey O'Brien]

The Matrix looking industrial goth, cyberpunk goth.

[Millie Decherico]

Full leather or vinyl outfits and capes and whatnot. And then they all kind of look like Paul Verhoeven, Total Recall character, aliens. Like, they've got weird faces. There's like kind of a pig. One that looks kind of like a pig.

[Casey O'Brien]

So that's Butterball. He's like a big fat guy and he does look like a, like kind of like a human pig. And then there's the Chatterer, which is like, he's got a lot of teeth and he's going with his teeth. And then there's the girl, the girl Cenobite, and she's bald. And then there's Pinhead, who's got pins all over his head.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

And those are the Cenobites that we've met from this land.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. And so I'm like. I guess my question is they're like, if you open the portal for us, we have to bring someone back.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's what it seems like. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I'm curious if like, does Frank become a Cenobite at a certain point? Is that like a promotion? How do you become a cenobite?

[Millie Decherico]

Right, That's. And that's what I. Again, many questions, some of which don't get resolved for me in this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I think that in the sequel, which I have seen the second one, they get more into Pinhead's background, which I don't really want to know. I don't want to. I don't really want like to him humanized that much, I guess. You know, I don't want to like, like know he was like an accountant from Omaha or something.

[Millie Decherico]

And then I guess that was my, my other question about the sequels because I've not seen any of the sequels. I wonder, because obviously Pinhead became the star of the franchise. I mean, he like became, you know, it's like I completely thought the first Hellraiser was about him. So did he develop his own little stand up routine like Freddy Krueger over the course?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's a great. Of the sequel question. I hope not.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Because it would take some of the bite out of him as an evil character.

[Millie Decherico]

He's not making like, sex puns or whatever. Like when he meets up with people, he's like, you know, saying some crazy shit. Like, you know, like coming up with his own, like five minutes to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, his hot. His tight five or whatever.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well, yeah, I guess. Yeah, that's a little curious because I'm like, well, why does it matter? I guess they do have to bring some of the. Like you open the door, we gotta bring someone back and make them look up like we are. So it's either gotta be you or it's gotta be Frank.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And so Kirsty, she runs back to the house to protect her father from Julia. Cenobites Frank. You know, once she sort of made this deal with the Cenobites and she's discovered that Frank has killed her dad, Larry, and taken his skin. And how she finds out that it's Frank is because he uses his famous phrase, come to daddy. That's something that Larry would never say. Frank kills Julia accidentally because he's trying to stab Kirsty. He didn't seem too disappointed. He's like, sorry, babe. And then the Cenobites come, they grab Frank. Frank doesn't seem too displeased to go back to the pain dimension. He's kind of smiling. He seems okay. And then, you know, the Cenobites, they go back on their word. They try to bring Kirsty back and she foils them by simply closing the puzzle box. Which is a little, I guess, anti Climactic.

[Millie Decherico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's kind of like, oh, that was it. That's awesome to close the thing. Yeah. And it's funny when pin. It's like, oh, don't. Wait, don't do that. Well, actually don't do that. But yeah. And so that is Hellraiser. What a thrill.

[Millie Decherico]

So you were extremely excited to be doing this movie this week. So tell me why, like, what you were just.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I just think Clive Barker, he. The world of Clive Barker. And I've only seen Hellraiser and Night Breed, which I also love, but it's so specific and unique and scary and gross and it feels very 80s in a way. It just feels. It feels like nothing that's out right now. And it's so gloomy and I don't know, it's. It's. It's got this specific feel. And Cronenberg has sort of a similar feel to his movies sometimes, but there's just something about his stuff I find Totally intriguing. It feels like it's based in, like, old mythology, all of his stuff, but I don't even know quite what it's referencing, but it just feels like. Well, it just feels like it's a part of a greater myth or something. And, yeah, I'm just sort of captivated by him. And like you said, you know, I'm a good Catholic boy, and this is the other side of, you know, this is the stuff I'm not supposed to be watching. You know, I'm supposed to be at church, not watching Clive Barker movies, so.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and it's funny because I like he. To me, I think, just. Cause I. In the specific era that I was a teenager, he just kind of. His stuff, I would say even more than, like, Stephen King or something. He just had this, like, goth fantasy element to him that I feel like a lot of, like, other horror writers maybe didn't have as much like, you know, he. He, to me, like, Clive Barker was, to me seemed real goth industrial, you know, like I said, dabbled into, like, the BDSM kink world. It was always, like, people that loved him and were kind of like him. I mean, if you look at pictures of him from the back in the day, he doesn't look particularly like a demon from.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, he seems kind of like a cool Hank. He seems like a cool.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, he's a cool dude. Like, he. Cool dude. Like, he looks kind of like, you know, probably an intense boyfriend, but not like the dark lord that we all thought he was. And I just, you know, I think that there was a long time where I had put those people. Like, I was like, oh, yeah, the Clive Barker kids are like the kids that were into goth industrial, even though I messed around with those kids all the time, and especially now. I told you, I told everybody on the last podcast I was going goth if Trump got reelected. And that is fully true. So I'm like, bring it.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, like, yeah, yeah. It just feels really. It feels really underground. It feels really countercultural in a really cool way. It feels very queer. I know Clyde Barker is queer. And so it just feels like I'm really attracted to things that are, like, countercultural right now, especially as things are becoming more Christian, more conservative, more return to family values stuff. This type of stuff I kind of seek out, and I'm much more interested in now.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, it's the way of the world. I mean, you know, like, what I do think is interesting, I mean, just as broadly speaking, and we could cut this if we want to, is that the line between counterculture and actual culture has been so blurred for so long. I mean, it used to be pretty distinct and now everything is everything. And, you know, like capitalism in this late iteration has made it really hard to distinguish between posers and not posers, if you will. But I think it's a. I think that you're right though, the instinct to return to like underground art and even just like occult stuff and things that are like, moving away from the kind of hegemonic normative, like state of the world right now of like trad wives and fucking, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Rules of fascism and things like that are. I don't know, I think it's important to kind of dig back into that stuff because it could be a release, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally. Totally. Yeah. Well, that was Hellraiser. This was fun. I really liked being able to watch this and talk to you about it. Millie, thank you for being willing to.

[Millie Decherico]

Talk about on the show Give me the blood.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, moving on. We've got film advice. It's been a little bit since we've read some film advice, so I'm excited to get into it. And we have a gripe in here. There's a gripe.

[Millie Decherico]

Give me the gripe.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now we got a gripe. Give me the blood. Okay, I'm gonna read this first one. It's from Amber and I think you know who this person is.

[Millie Decherico]

I do. Go ahead.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm the mother of a five year old boy and aunt to some amazing teens and young adults. As Casey has been sharing the TV movie slash movies he's introducing introducing to patients, it led me to hit this question, what are your favorite movies and TV shows from your childhood and adolescence that should be passed on to the next generation of cinephiles? We've hit most of the classics, but I'd love to hear yours. We've seen Disney standards, the Goonies, Willy Wonka, both Old and New, Willow, Never Ending Story, Pee Wee's Big Adventure, Labyrinth, the Secret of nimh, Miyazaki's for the teams. This is what I recommended. True Romance, Natural Born Killers, Becky Boy Kills World, Olive Tarantino. I don't know what else to say. My tastes are all over the place. Amber. Amber also gave me a bunch of suggestions on good shows for patients to watch, but I won't include those because this is a movie podcast. Millie, what are your favorite movies and TV shows from your childhood and adolescence that should be passed on to the next generation of cinephiles?

[Millie Decherico]

You know, I was really thinking about this because I just don't think I have a tidy answer.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's okay.

[Millie Decherico]

I really don't. Because here's the truth. I was always watching things that were not geared for my age group as a kid.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

I was always trying to watch things for older people. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, I have said this a million times on every podcast that has asked me this question, but I watched A Clockwork Orange when I was, like, 8, 9 years old, and I think that just broke something in my brain, that I just was like, maybe I'm a bit of frank. Maybe I'm trying to get juiced in my own way. And when it came down to it, there wasn't a lot of kid entertainment that I was, like, really interested in. I remember loving the cartoon gem, like, when I was in elementary school a lot. There was a few little cartoons, but it wasn't like I was really into kids stuff. I was trying to go much older. I was watching, you know, like, Dynasty with my mom and, like, General Hospital with my mom and, like, soap operas. That was kind of early days for me. And then I moved into, like, you know, I was still. I wasn't a teenager yet, but I was obsessed with, like, teen stuff. So, like, 90210 and, you know, Melrose plays and, like, all these things, you know, so it was kind of like, I was always kind of like, at least five to 10 years ahead of my actual age. So for me, it's really hard to suggest things from my teen years because I was like, they wouldn't be for kids that age. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You want the children watching Cannibal Holocaust, Right?

[Millie Decherico]

Right. Cause I was, like, in a shithead phase earlier than I think a lot of other people would be. And so, yeah, I'd be like, I don't know if I would recommend watching Ilsa, She Wolf of the SS to anyone who was a teenager. Like, I just feel so up and so, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what to say. I mean, honestly, like, things like Natural Born Killers and all that stuff that was pretty, like, most of the teens my generation watched all that, like the Reservoir Dogs, Natural Born Killers, like David Lynch, Twin Peaks, like this kind of stuff. Actually, I think Twin Peaks should probably be up there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, I think that I feel like David lynch is still so in the culture now that I feel I have less fear of that getting passed on, you know, to the young generation. So I feel like it will. I guess I. The first thing that came to mind for Me was like, I think the wizard of Oz is really great. And that is a really old movie at this point. And so I'm just kind of like that's old to a degree that I don't know if kids are gonna go back and watch that. Even though I think it's great. And I guess I was thinking more of like our kids now gonna go back and watch French New wave movies. Right. And think that's cool in the way that I thought that was cool when I was a teenager. Or is that just so old to these kids now that it's like this isn't even enjoyable? You know, same with like even like the film brat movies of the 1970s, you know, it's like kids gonna go back and watch Five Easy Pieces now? Or is it like too antiquated?

[Millie Decherico]

So, I mean, I feel like if we're gonna move a bit forward, I think PTA movies are gonna be that. They're just. Sure, pta. Christopher Nolan, you know, like Darren Aronofsky, like all those generation guys are probably going to be the new Scorsese. De Palma.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, Coppola.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, based on the dude bro fest it was when I went and saw one battle after another, I would say that that is gonna happen. It's an inevitability.

[Casey O'Brien]

More like one daddle after another.

[Millie Decherico]

That is incredible, dude. Wish I would have thought about that one. Damn, you nailed it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, so, I mean, I think that kind of answered the question. I don't know if I have like kids movies I. Yeah, like that I hold as near and dear that I like. I have stupid ones like Steven Spielberg's hook. But I'm not going to be like that needs to be passed down to the young generation, you know. But thank you, Amber. Really appreciate you writing in.

[Millie Decherico]

Wait, Amber, by the way, she's my coworker, so we can go, just go to lunch, talk about this more if you want to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, please. And I'll FaceTime in.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, of course.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just put me on a little. Put me on a phone on the table and I can chime in. Okay, moving on. This is a question we get a lot. Some version of this question. So I think it's good to talk about it. Hi, Millie and Casey. I am seeking your advice regarding my husband and I's vastly differing movie tastes. While I enjoy dark dramas, any and all Oscar hopefuls, and horror, my lovely husband favors romantic comedies and fantasy. We rarely find a movie that we can both enjoy on an at home date. He prefers to disassociate from reality when watching and get completely lost in the universe of the story. While I am usually taken out of films that I can easily predict outcomes or feel that the characters emotionally operate in a way I find unrealistic. Thank you so much, Mary. Number one, I've found it very hard to pick movies to watch with family, and now I'm kind of like, I don't think you should watch movies with your family. That's my first takeaway. Number two, I have somewhat of a similar problem with my wife and I, except I. I relate to both of you. I like to disassociate a lot and just watch zombie movies where I don't have to totally pay attention. I like that type of stuff, but I also like my broccoli movies. I want to watch the Decalogue by Krzysztof Kieslowski, and Trisha doesn't really like watching that stuff as much. So I have what has been titled My Star Trek Nights, where I will either watch an episode of Star Trek or I'll watch some art house bullshit movie by myself, because I know Trisha doesn't want to watch those types of movies all the time. So I do think you need. If you want to watch your broccoli movies, I think, you know, your Oscar movies, you might just have to have a special night once a week where you do that on your own. That's my advice.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I'm glad you weighed in, because obviously you're married and you have this conundrum. Whereas I live alone and I don't even watch movies. As representative of the last couple weeks of the film diary. Yeah, a lot of times I will watch movies for the podcast, and if I have this, like, tickle in my throat about a specific genre, like I said, I went to Videodrome and rented, like, three depraved films and was like, I'm gonna watch all of these movies. But normally it's really not. Like, when I've been with people. Like, if I've been dating people, I never care. I'm just like, I don't give a shit about the movie we watch. You have. Watch whatever you want to watch. If I don't like it, I'll just look at my phone.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

And just look up once in a while, try to get the general beats of the story.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, my thing is that I just hate. I think it's because my whole life is deciding on movies to watch and talking about movies that if I'm in, if I'm on a Date. If I'm hanging out with friends, I just don't wanna choose. I don't wanna choose. I'll watch whatever you wanna watch. I mean, the other night when I brought over their fan to, like, my friend's house, I was like, I could watch this or not. Like, it doesn't matter. Even though I brought a DVD over, I could easily not watch it. I am not passionate about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I think watching a movie with another person is a social activity. And even though it's your partner, it is sort of a social thing. So if one of your. I feel like both have to be at least kind of okay with watching the movie that you're watching, you know, I don't know. It's. It's a tough thing to navigate. And like I said, maybe family members should never watch movies with each other. Right?

[Millie Decherico]

It's either that you don't watch movies at all or one of you has to completely capitulate. Like, one of you is just has to not care.

[Casey O'Brien]

One of you has to be the Frank and one of you has to be the Julia in this situation.

[Millie Decherico]

I'll be yours. Movie sub. How about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, very good. Thank you so much for that, Mary. All right, moving on to a film gripe from Molly. I have an admittedly silly film gripe to write about. What is it with that scene that's in every other movie where we. Where we. We are shown a character from above laying in a bath, looking up often into the camera. Then they submerge themselves under the water while keeping their eyes open and continuing to look into the camera. No one has ever done this in real life, or at least I and the people I've spoken with this about have never done it. I think it's generally meant to symbolize being overwhelmed in the face of a struggle, but I just find it hacky and annoying. What confuses me most is that it's often in otherwise high quality, unconventional, non tropey things. The most recent example I've come across was watching 2011's the Hunter with Willem Dafoe a couple of weeks ago. And it inspired me to write in Molly. This is funny. I haven't really thought about this, but this does happen in movies a lot. I think it happened in the movie Jacob's Ladder. I remember that. Where it's someone submerged in a bath looking up.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Because I was like, did this happen in A Nightmare on Elm Street? I don't remember. So, okay. Essentially what Molly is saying is a person is being shot from above on their Back dipping into a bathtub, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And then they open their eyes underwater and look up.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, so this is not somebody taking, like, a relaxing bath. This is like a stress bath. Stress bath. Okay, got it. Okay. No one has ever done this. Have you ever taken a stress bath, Casey?

[Casey O'Brien]

I've taken a bath if I've been stressed out. Not often, but it's happened. But I don't open my eyes underwater because if I'm having a stress bath, there's gonna be some fun bubbles in there, maybe a bath bomb. I don't want that getting into my eyes. So I'm not opening my eyes underwater.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I very rarely take baths, and they're definitely not stressful. So I've never done this. This. I've never done it in real life. To Molly's point, I've never done this in real life, so I think it would drive me crazy if I had seen it over and over.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's always like the. The bathwater is, like, crystal clear, too, which is sort of funny.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

In these situations. This is sort of the cousin of the splashing water in your face when. At the sink in a public bathroom when you're stressed out. You know, you see that in movies a lot too. Have you ever done that?

[Millie Decherico]

Have I ever splashed water in a public sink? Is that what you're saying?

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, you go into a bathroom, you're stressed out at work, you turn on the sink, and you, like, start splashing water in your face to try to cool yourself down.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I've done it because I've cried at work several times that I have to wash the tears away.

[Casey O'Brien]

I see.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you? You?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm sure I have. Have I cried in a bathroom? A public bathroom?

[Ryan Seacrest]

Sure.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. One of the best pleasures of life, to be honest, to.

[Casey O'Brien]

To let. To cry in a pub? In a bathroom.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

At work.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. In the stall. In a stall. Are you kidding? So fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. When I worked at Max Fun, they only had one bathroom in the office. And so if you wanted to cry, I had to go to your car.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, that's even better, though. Have you ever cried in a parking deck? In the car? Oh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I do that, like, maybe once a week.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. Because of work or just, like, life?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I think it's hormonal, to be honest, because I have a bit of a commute now, and I noticed that when I listen to music in the morning, I usually end up crying, and then I'm, like, parking my car in the parking deck, and then I just, like, have my Cry. And then I go into work.

[Casey O'Brien]

My favorite current place to cry is staring out the window when I'm washing dishes at the same time.

[Millie Decherico]

That's a good cry, actually.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's the same reason I'll listen to music in the morning. And I'm like, I am affected.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Oh, it's like. And it's like the song that will play, like, if I'm in the car is not necessarily a sad song. Like, it's. It doesn't even have to be. Sometimes it can be, like, joyous, and then I get caught up in the moment of, like, the joyousness of the song and I'm like, yeah, I should be having this much fun. Why am I not? I'm crying.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sometimes I can't go on TikTok because I just. For some. There's some tiktoks that just make me weep. Oh, my God. Like, sometimes they have, like, beautiful cinematic compilations from movies that I'm just like.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, oh, oh, I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Or it's like moments of true grace and sincerity. Like in a video on Tick Tock.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, there was one that I reposted. It was a Filipino grandma who had her own restaurant. And she was like, thank you for coming to my restaurant. And I was like, yeah, yeah. Yep, yep, yep. Have we lost the plot of this email?

[Casey O'Brien]

Lost the plot a little bit.

[Millie Decherico]

And we're both crying. Sorry, Molly.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to everybody who wrote in. Thank you, Molly, for that gripe. I hear you and I'm going to look for that now. Molly also had a question about picking movies to watch with her family, but we just, you know, covered that. Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

What a great episode. We really got kinky on this one. Now it's time for employees picks. I'm recommending the movie Clive Barker made after Hellraiser called night breed from 1990. It's sort of a similar vibe of Hellraiser. It's kind of also sort of confusing. There's like this ancient civilization that lives under a cemetery, and they are called the Night Breed. And they are monsters. They are like monster people. And they're dead, kind of. It's the. The name of this land is called Midian. And the main character, played by Craig Sheffer, is sort of called by this place Midian. And he's connected to it somehow. And he becomes one of these creatures eventually. And it's really a fascinating movie. It's great character design. It's creepy, it's sexual. David Cronenberg plays a very evil doctor in it, and he plays like a very Good villain in this movie. And it has a very similar vibe to Hellraiser. So if you like Hellraiser, you would like Nightbreed. Nightbreed 1990. Check it out.

[Millie Decherico]

Amazing. I have a friend, Elric Kane, who is the co host of the Pure Cinema podcast. He's a horror director himself in la and this is one of his favorite movies. Night Read.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's great. A lot of Clive Barker movies. He had a hard time with studio interference, and I think this had some studio interference issues because it's so bizarre, I guess.

[Millie Decherico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

But check out. So maybe you should watch the director's cut. I don't always recommend the director's cut, but for this I think I would. But yeah, so check it out.

[Millie Decherico]

So my film recommendation for this week is kind of. It's a little bit more. I guess we're gonna. Since we are talking about BDSM and kink and fetish stuff slightly with Hellraiser, I wanted to recommend maybe One of the OGs of horror that sort of dabbles in the kind of fetish ish world, the kink world, the BDSM world, which is Peeping Tom from 1960, directed by Michael Powell, of course, of the Archers, Powell and Pressburger. They made some of the most beautiful movies of all time. But this is a movie that, you know, has been studied and talked about for decades. And it's basically a psychological horror film about a serial killer who murders women and records them with his camera as he's killing them. And then he kind of puts it together and makes his own little porno snuff film. And I mean, this was hugely controversial when it came out, like in 1960. Right. And we did have things like Psycho, and there was a lot of kind of horror that was kind of moving into this, like, psychological realm of like, what would be called, like, kind of deviant sexual behaviors kind of thing. But I mean, I recently saw there was the restoration of Peeping Tom that came out probably like a year ago in theaters, and the colors are fucking amazing. It looked incredible. The restoration looked incredible. But I was like, you know, for 1960, this is still pretty, you know, pretty effective. Like, it is not like, you know, a horror movie that's really tame. Tame. It still hits pretty hard. And I mean, this movie was all. Has talked been talked about, you know, by like, Laura Mulvey and all these film scholars. It's like, you know, a lot of film theory was centered in a movie like Peeping Tom. But I just figured since we're on the Topic of weird sex that we were gonna have to bring up. Peeping Tom, 1960.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've never seen it. It's on my list. I gotta check it out.

[Millie Decherico]

Do it. I think you'll love it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, we're talking about a movie that's been on my list for a long time next week, and I'm excited to talk about it. Did you recommend this one or did I?

[Millie Decherico]

I think I did. Maybe.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think you did.

[Millie Decherico]

We're gonna watch a movie from 1989 next week called and this is again probably Is this the last of our horror months? It is, yeah. So we're going out with a bang. We're gonna talk about the 1989 film Tetsuo the Iron man, which is quite a film if you've not heard of it. It is a Japanese kind of science fiction horror film. And I mean, there's. You can see it like, I think it's on YouTube, on Sling.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's on Canopy for free.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, it's on Canopy. That's perfect. You can watch it for free if you have a library subscription. Anyway, yeah, we're gonna be talking about that. That is gonna be a good one.

[Casey O'Brien]

So this movie is only 64 minutes long, so I like that too.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

We did it.

[Millie Decherico]

We certainly did.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie. Thank you for another great show. This was really fun for me. To all our listeners out there, if you'd like to write in to get film advice to express a gripe, a grit, or a consensual grope, please Write in to DearMoviesactlyRightMedia.com. you can also leave us a voicemail, which I love when people leave us voicemails. Record it on your phone, make it, keep it under a minute, record in a quiet place and send it to DearMoviesXactlyRightMedia.com.

[Millie Decherico]

You can follow us on our socials. We are at Dear Movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook and we are also on letterboxd individually at Casey Lee o' Brien and at M. De Jericho.

[Casey O'Brien]

Listen to Dear Movies, I love you on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review our show. Millie, I hope you have a spooky week.

[Millie Decherico]

Thank you so much and I hope you do too.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you. Bye bye.

[Millie Decherico]

See ya. This has been an exactly right production, hosted by me, Millie de Chirico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner. And our artwork is by by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie Decherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie Di. We love you. Goodbye.

[Millie Decherico]

Be kind.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

Does anything go better than Lego and Star Wars? I don't think so. Kids will love becoming a part of the galactic action while playing out their favorite adventures like with Jango Fett Starship. I mean this LEGO set is fantastic. It features a detailed recreation of Jango Fett's starship with four stud shooters, a seismic charge dropping function and wings that rotate with gravity. Plus it has three main Jango Fett with two blasters and a jetpack, Young Boba Fett and Llama Sue. Perfect for endless play. Now for the big fans, there's Jango Fett's Firespray class Starship from the Ultimate Collector series. Packed with details and surprises for fans, this large scale set is perfect for anyone hunting for a mindful building escape. Plus you end up with a fantastic display piece. You can build this while you're little ones. Build the kid set. You'll be like Django and Boba building an adventure shop. Now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores. This is what the market used to sound like.

[Millie Decherico]

Pretty complex.

[Lego Star Wars Advertiser]

But today with iShares by BlackRock investing is easier. With over 450 ETFs, iShares gives you easy access to countless market opportunities. Opportunities iShares by BlackRock the market is yours. Visit www.ishares.com to feel perspectives, which includes investment objectives, risks, fees, expenses and other information you should read and consider carefully before investing risk. Includes principal laws prepared by BlackRock Investments, LLC member FINRA.

[Casey O'Brien]

Can small acts make a real impact in the world?

[Millie Decherico]

Sometimes a small thing has the power to become more something big and meaningful. And when it comes to helping children, no act is too small. When you fill up at the purple Giving Pump at Shell, a portion of your purchase will be donated to support.

[Casey O'Brien]

Charities in your community. The Giving Pump Easy to Stop, Easy.

[Millie Decherico]

To donate from 9125 to 103125 participating Shell stations will donate a minimum of $0.01 per gallon of the fuel pump from the giving pump or a minimum donation of $300.