Jackass Number Two (2006)! Plus, Film Critic Caden Mark Gardner!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Movies, I Love You Episode: Jackass Number Two (2006)! Plus, Film Critic Caden Mark Gardner! Release Date: August 5, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Dear Movies, I Love You, hosts Millie De Chirico and Casey O'Brien dive into the wild world of the Jackass franchise, specifically focusing on the 2006 sequel, Jackass Number Two. The episode not only dissects the film but also features an insightful conversation with esteemed film critic Kaden Mark Gardner, who brings his expertise on queer cinema and the history of trans representation in film.

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Main Discussion: Jackass Number Two

Overview of Jackass and Its Sequels

Millie and Casey kick off the episode by reminiscing about their personal experiences with the Jackass series. They highlight the raw and unfiltered nature of the original show and its transition into movies. Millie De Chirico shares her excitement, stating:

"Huge one. If you couldn't tell, we're actually going to talk about this. Has this the first time we talked about a sequel and not the original movie?" [03:09]

Johnny Knoxville, one of the show's creators, emphasizes the necessity of watching the first installment to fully grasp the sequel's context:

"Yeah, and you do need to have seen the first one for the second one to make sense." [03:31]

Jackass Number Two as a Modern Mondo Movie

The hosts delve into the classification of Jackass Number Two, likening it to the Mondo genre—a style of documentary known for its shock value and portrayal of taboo subjects. Millie articulates:

"In fact, I feel like this is a modern example of a mondo movie." [34:01]

They explore how Jackass Number Two embodies the essence of Mondo by presenting real, unscripted stunts that push the boundaries of conventional filmmaking. The hosts note the documentary-like quality and the raw interactions among the cast, which sets it apart from traditional films.

Authentic Masculinity and Male Bonding

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the portrayal of masculinity in Jackass Number Two. Millie reflects on how the show presents a more vulnerable side of men, highlighting genuine emotions and fears during stunts:

"They’re really scared and they show all that on the show. It’s not just the stunt. It’s also like, you know, in Jackass Number two, Dave England watches these rubber boys... and he's like, I have an anxiety attack. I’m not gonna." [42:05]

Johnny Knoxville adds depth to this perspective, stating:

"There’s a real sincerity to it." [45:10]

This authenticity fosters a sense of vulnerability and genuine camaraderie among the cast, offering a nuanced depiction of male friendships that contrasts with more stereotypical portrayals in media.

Ranking the Jackass Cast

Millie and Johnny engage in a light-hearted yet heartfelt ranking of the Jackass cast members, sharing personal favorites and reasons for their choices. Notably, both place Johnny Knoxville at the top for his unwavering commitment and showmanship:

"Johnny Knoxville is number one. He’s a showman. He’s like the last great showman." [54:17]

They discuss each member's unique contributions to the group, touching upon their personalities, stunts, and the dynamics that make the team compelling.

Evolution of the Franchise and Personal Reflections

The conversation shifts to the evolution of the Jackass franchise, with Millie expressing her enduring love for the series despite its sometimes outrageous content:

"I have seen every Jackass movie in a movie theater. I go opening weekend. I’m obsessed." [73:05]

They reflect on how the production values improved in the sequel, making Jackass Number Two feel more polished while retaining its raw essence. The hosts also acknowledge the tragic loss of cast member Ryan Dunn, adding a layer of poignancy to their discussion.

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Guest Interview: Kaden Mark Gardner

Introduction to Kaden

The hosts introduce Kaden Mark Gardner, a freelance film critic, programmer, and researcher based in Upstate New York. Kaden specializes in queer cinema and the history of trans representation in film. His co-authored book, "Corpses, Fools and the History and Future of Transness in Cinema," is lauded as an upcoming classic in film studies.

Exploring the 1950s Diner Aesthetic

Millie steers the conversation towards Kaden's area of expertise—the 1950s diner aesthetic in cinema. Kaden explains his fascination, tying it back to iconic films like "The Girl Can't Help It" and his personal experiences:

"I found the James Dean poster at Bruno’s diner, which was a pivotal moment in my obsession with James Dean." [79:11]

He elaborates on how the **1950s diner serves as a cultural and nostalgic symbol in films, providing a backdrop for meaningful character interactions and storytelling.

Cinematic Representations and Cultural Impact

Kaden discusses various films that embody the 1950s diner aesthetic, from Frank Tashlin’s works to David Lynch’s films like "Mulholland Drive" and "Blue Velvet." He contrasts Tashlin’s comedic, plot-driven use of diners with Lynch’s more atmospheric and symbolic portrayals.

"Lynch wants to live in that 1950s diner aesthetic... it fascinates him as a place that can feel like it’s lost in time." [89:02]

Millie adds her perspective, highlighting how the diner functions as a liminal space in cinema, a place of safety and intimacy for characters:

"It’s like a physical space that communicates a sense of safety and control." [90:15]

Modern Interpretations and Cultural Shifts

The discussion shifts to the persistence and evolution of the 1950s diner aesthetic in modern media. Kaden observes:

"There's a mythologizing of the diner as both ironic and sincere, a safe haven in today's chaotic world." [84:58]

They explore how contemporary portrayals in movies like "American Graffiti" and "Wes Anderson's Asteroid City" continue to draw from this iconic setting, adapting it to new narratives and cultural contexts.

Final Thoughts and Recommendations

Kaden recommends classic films that exemplify the diner aesthetic, such as "The Wild One" and "Peyton Place," and touches upon his own projects, including essays and audio commentaries on films like "Ava Man" and "Scarecrow in a Garden of Cucumbers."

"I definitely recommend hearing John Waters talk about 'The Girl Can't Help It,' which I think is on the Criterion disc." [96:17]

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with Millie and Johnny reflecting on the deep dive into Jackass Number Two and the enriching conversation with Kaden Mark Gardner. They highlight the enduring impact of both the Jackass series and the 1950s diner aesthetic in cinema, inviting listeners to explore these facets further in their own movie-watching journeys.

Millie concludes with a teaser for the next episode:

"Next week we're talking about 'Jurassic World: Rebirth' from 2025 and the concept of summer blockbusters." [107:59]

Listeners are encouraged to rate and review the podcast, follow on social media, and reach out with recommendations or questions.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Millie De Chirico: "Huge one. If you couldn't tell, we're actually going to talk about this." [03:09]
• Johnny Knoxville: "There’s a real sincerity to it." [45:10]
• Millie De Chirico: "Johnny Knoxville is number one. He’s a showman. He’s like the last great showman." [54:17]
• Kaden Mark Gardner: "I found the James Dean poster at Bruno’s diner, which was a pivotal moment in my obsession with James Dean." [79:11]
• Kaden Mark Gardner: "Lynch wants to live in that 1950s diner aesthetic... it fascinates him as a place that can feel like it’s lost in time." [89:02]
• Millie De Chirico: "It’s like a physical space that communicates a sense of safety and control." [90:15]
• Millie De Chirico: "Next week we're talking about 'Jurassic World: Rebirth' from 2025 and the concept of summer blockbusters." [107:59]

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Follow Dear Movies, I Love You on Instagram: @dearmoviesiloveyou

Network: Part of the Exactly Right podcast network, featuring a variety of topics including true crime, comedic interviews, science, and more.

Stay tuned for more in-depth discussions and fresh perspectives on your favorite movies and hidden gems!

Transcript

[Millie De Chirico]

This is exactly right.

[Casey O'Brien]

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[Casey O'Brien]

With a little help from us.

[Millie De Chirico]

At.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Homes.Com, we do whatever it takes to get you the in depth info on local schools you won't find anywhere else. Things like student teacher ratio, test scores and school programs. And sometimes that requires attending school recitals. So many recitals. That's my son. Isn't he terrific? Yeah, a real prodigy. Homes.com we've done your homework.

[Millie De Chirico]

Hi, my name is Millie De Chirico and welcome to Dear Movies. I love you. Whoa.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Millie, what a stunt.

[Millie De Chirico]

My leg. My leg. My leg.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, my God. Millie. I didn't know a human body could contort that way.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yo, dude, my leg. I. Dude, why did you tell me to get on this missile that we launched into a lake?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, I thought it'd be sick. I thought it'd be sick. And it was.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yo. Yeah. I can't believe you got me to do all these crazy things. There was also an alligator that was on the missile with me, which I thought was, you know, a little. A little crazy. And then, you know, I don't know, they're like, everybody was naked. Everybody was standing around, was just naked.

[Johnny Knoxville]

There's a jar of alligator semen on top of the rocket.

[Millie De Chirico]

Is that really necessary?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, my leg is completely severed.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, I hope you can keep doing the podcast today because we got a huge one.

[Millie De Chirico]

Huge one. If you couldn't tell, we're actually going to talk about this. Has this the first time we talked about a sequel and not the original movie?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, that's a good question. Yeah, I guess that's true. It is a sequel. Yeah. And you do need to have seen the first one for the second one to make sense.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right. I feel like everybody has probably seen the first one at least. But we are going to talk about jackass number two. That came out in 2006. There's a reason why we're talking about the second one, which will be clear in just a few moments.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But I don't even know if I know the reason.

[Millie De Chirico]

You don't have to.

[Johnny Knoxville]

As long as one of us knows. As long as. Yeah, as long as one of us knows what's going on, we're. We're okay. And that's great. Very exciting. And then we are also going to be talking to the wonderful Kaden Mark Gardner on our segment, My area of expertise. And we're going to be talking about 50s diner aesthetic. A really awesome conversation with Kaden. Would you say Kaden is a film writer? A writer of film, about film?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I would say Kaden and I run in the same streets. It's like we're all out here doing a little bit of programming, a little bit of writing, a little bit of historian stuff.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He's just a wealth, truly a wealth of knowledge. And we talk about 50s diner aesthetic and we get into it and it's fun.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's right. So please stay tuned. It's going to be a wild and wonderful episode. And in the meantime, I have to try to put my leg back on somehow. I think I'm just gonna pull this duct tape. Anyway, I'll figure it out.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And just imagine the first guitar riffs of Minutemen's Corona is playing. Imagine that in your head, audience. Because we can't play it.

[Millie De Chirico]

But we can play this song because you're listening to Dear Movies, I love you. Dear Movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Check the box below.

[Millie De Chirico]

Alright. Hey, y'. All. Welcome to another episode of Dear Movies. I love you. This is the podcast for those who are in a relationship with movies. My name is Millie De Chirico and I'm Casey o'.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Brien.

[Millie De Chirico]

And Casey, what did you just tell me during the.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, I said you know, in the brief moment between the intro and this part of the podcast, I said, when I was taking guitar lessons, one of the first things I learned was Minutemen's Corona, which is the theme song for Jackass. Because Minutemen, I love them, and I was really obsessed with them, and they're a great band.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's so funny. The first time I ever learned, like, I picked up a guitar and my neighbor taught me how to play guitar, I learned the opening to Come as you are by Nirvana.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, that's a good one. That's kind of tough.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's the only one I know, the only thing I know how to play. And I just play it over and over and over again. But I wish I learned the Minuteman song. That have been fun.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, it's complicated. D. Boone was an excellent guitarist, Rip if you ever want to learn an easy song guitar. All of Nutra Milk Hotel songs are really easy. I love them, though.

[Millie De Chirico]

You don't say.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Anyways, huge episode, like we said at the top. But, Billy, I have. I have two questions. Quickly. Quick questions here. Okay, Number one, Did you hear that still in Skarsgrd called Ingmar Bergman a Nazi? Have you heard that before?

[Millie De Chirico]

What? No.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He said Ingmar Bergman was a Nazi during World War II, and he's the only person he knows that cried when Hitler died.

[Millie De Chirico]

What?

[Johnny Knoxville]

And I had never heard this before. I was just curious if you had ever heard any rumors that Ingmar Bergman was, like, a Nazi sympathizer.

[Millie De Chirico]

Do. How old is Stellan Skarsgard, by the way? Was he around to see that?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Here's the. Here's the thing. He said he's. He's 74. So he was born after Hitler died.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right?

[Johnny Knoxville]

So I don't know. I.

[Millie De Chirico]

He did not see it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He did not see him cry. So I'm kind of like, maybe he heard it secondhand. I don't know.

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm not defending. I'm not defending.

[Johnny Knoxville]

No. It just is a bummer because I love Ingmar Bergman. I have all of his movies from the Criterion Collection, literally all of them. I have a huge set, and it's just hard for me to. Someone who, like, is such a poet of human nature to be a Nazi, that's just hard for me to reconcile, I guess. So, anyways. Well, I mean, insight on that.

[Millie De Chirico]

One time, my grandfather. This is not for nothing. Maybe we cut this. I don't know. We'll see. Once my grandfather told me when I was, like, a teenager that he actually appreciated living under fascism in Italy because he Felt like things were run very efficiently.

[Johnny Knoxville]

The. The trains ran on time.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes. He said. He basically said that. He was like, actually, I thought that fascism was, for the most part, a positive because it felt like everything was just, like, working well. And I was like, wow.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Interesting.

[Millie De Chirico]

Bold dog, Grandpa.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Wow.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know. Secrets. I know. That's what I'm saying. Maybe this is a thing where it's like. Maybe he was like. Maybe he was like, on his Twilight bender and he was like, hey, you know what? I love Hitler. Or whatever scout scars guard was. Just happened to be there. He's like, what the dude? Or. I don't know. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna speculate.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But anyways, that was one question I had. And then I have a. I just wanted you to weigh in on this. I did something I've never done before, and I feel weird about it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Movie at the movie theater. Bought popcorn. It was good. You know how when the popcorn is like, that yellowish orange and it's just, like, really salty? It was good. Anyways, it was a big bag, and I only finished, like, half of it. And so I brought it home and I put it in a big Ziploc bag and I ate it for the next rest of the week. Is that weird that I did that?

[Millie De Chirico]

No. What the fuck? You paid, like, $30 for that. You should pay for.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I did pay more for that than I did for my movie ticket for my pop. And popcorn was more expensive than the movie ticket. Okay. Just wanted to check in. It was. I really enjoyed it, and I loved eating it throughout the week. I just felt, like 90 years old, like, pulling out, like, this giant Ziploc bag of popcorn throughout the week. It seems.

[Millie De Chirico]

No way. That. First of all, I'm glad that you did that. Second of all, now that I'm. Now that you said it, I'm curious. Have you ever gone to a movie theater just to buy the popcorn, not see a movie and just walk? Walked.

[Johnny Knoxville]

No. But my grandma used to do that.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And there's a movie theater in my neighborhood not but two blocks from my home, where they say they have the best popcorn in the city, and people will apparently go in and just buy some and leave.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. I've done it. And I'll go you one further. Perhaps I've done a lot of hard research on to, like, what it is that's in the movie theater popcorn that makes it so delish.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Do you want to know what it is or do you do. Okay.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Of course.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, this is according to Reddit.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Okay.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's a combination of a couple of things. Number one, this seasoning salt called Flavacol.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Okay.

[Millie De Chirico]

Sounds very chemical. Flavicol. It's the. The out. It looks like a. A carton of milk, and it's got, like, a really cute, like, 1950s, 1960s design scheme. It looks like it hasn't changed since the 50s or 60s, which is one. You know, it was manufactured by a company called Gold Medal, which I'm assuming is maybe the flower people from Cincinnati, Ohio.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Mm.

[Millie De Chirico]

So that's the seasoning salt that goes on the popcorn. Then I read that there's this butter flavored oil.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah. Because I don't really actually want real butter.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, it's not real butter.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Good.

[Millie De Chirico]

By the way, I've had popcorn with real butter, and it's kind of gnarly, I got to tell you.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, I feel like the art house cinemas are trying to make their popcorn more healthy. I feel like.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, I feel like it's not the way to go. It tastes it. I think that this is a. It's like going to a gas station knowing you're going to be snacking on something disgusting. It's the whole point of the experience.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You don't want to go in there and find a bunch of fruit and vegetables in there.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, I don't need, like, a matcha smoothie at, you know, a racetrack. But so I went online, did a little bit more research, and. And there's this gallon that you can buy on Amazon called Snappy. I think the name of the company is Snappy, but it's called Butter Burst, and it's a literal gallon of oil. Like, I guess it's like a butter flavored oil. It's like sludge, basically. Like, you can get a gallon of popcorn sludge.

[Johnny Knoxville]

We should do shots on the podcast.

[Millie De Chirico]

I should send you some. I've been like, because what am I gonna get through a gallon? I've been like, you know, peeling people off some of the butter burst. I'm like, well, I'm not gonna have this. Let me. Let me give you a plate. As they say down. What do they say in Minnesota if you go to a cookout, you know, and somebody walks in, yo, come get you. Come get a plate.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Get you a plate. Let me put together a plate for you.

[Millie De Chirico]

Get you a plate. Yeah, yeah, that's what I mean. Get you a plate of this butter. Bur send it up to you.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Very good.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, just wanted to check in with those two questions. Millie.

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[Millie De Chirico]

I have something else, please. A follow up. Real hot off the presses. Did you hear that the paranormal investigator who was handling the Annabelle doll died?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes, I did. I did see this. What is going on? Millie? I'm telling you, I'm freaking out here.

[Millie De Chirico]

I am, too, dude. I'm just like.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I feel like we shouldn't have even talked about it on the podcast.

[Millie De Chirico]

How about that's the first thing that I. I thought about. I was like, we've invoked this now, and now I'm worried, but something bad's gonna happen. Up. But here's the tea. Casey, do. In addition to doing shots of butter bursts, should we also sage the podcast?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes, we should have my mom come on and do a Catholic Blessing upon the podcast. She did that on our house when we moved in, so she's no stranger to it. Maybe she should come on and she can do this.

[Millie De Chirico]

Listen, I'm fucking serious.

[Johnny Knoxville]

No, I do.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay. Let's talk to your mom.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Okay. I'll get my mom. She's the most. Most Catholic person I know. She. It's like. It goes like Pope and then her, and we got to get her on. Okay. This is good.

[Millie De Chirico]

There's been a lot of news at the top.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I know. Jeez.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's fine.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But, Millie, we got to get to our film diary. Were we talking about the movies we watched this past week? Open it up.

[Millie De Chirico]

Man.

[Johnny Knoxville]

How much? If. Okay, so let's say you were staring at the case that Annabelle is in.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, my God.

[Johnny Knoxville]

How much money would it take for you to open it?

[Millie De Chirico]

To open it?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Gotta be at least. At least 10 GS, if not more. I would do more. Five figs. Bare mints.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I need to take care of my family.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. We gotta ensure, you know, that our loved ones have, you know, our beneficiary money. Because once you open that gate.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

That girl is going ham on you. So.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Spooky. There is a new one of those, the Conjuring movies coming out soonish? I believe so. Well, I think that's what all this Annabelle tour was all about.

[Millie De Chirico]

But see, now, is it gonna be like some crazy poltergeist scenario, like everything's cursed or like exorcism, the Exorcist, everything's cursed.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I don't know. Oh, okay. Millie, can you tell us what you watched this week?

[Millie De Chirico]

Sure. I watched quite a few things.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Wow, good.

[Millie De Chirico]

So I, I'll just be brief about things. I watched two serious documentaries and then I watched basically films for teenage boys. Good, Okay. I saw two documentaries about classic film icons of our past. I saw the 2005 Kevin Brownlow Co directed documentary about Greta Garbo entitled Garbo.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Okay. I've never not familiar with this.

[Millie De Chirico]

It was, you know, put together by my old stomping grounds at tcm.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I see.

[Millie De Chirico]

But it was basically talking about Garbo, you know, kind of famously decided to like retire in her. Was it late 30s, early 40s. And then she just was like, I'm gonna live in New York and be a normal person. And if you try to say hi to me in an antique store, I probably won't say hi back. But who knows? Like, she just was like, I'm going off the grid type.

[Johnny Knoxville]

That's cool.

[Millie De Chirico]

And then people were like obsessed with, with spotting her and wanting to talk to her and things. So I thought that was kind of cool.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Very cool.

[Millie De Chirico]

I like, again, I'm really pulling for celebrities that are cool, by the way, to just disappear from public life and just be a normal person. Like, if you're cool, you don't need to be famous for the rest of your life.

[Johnny Knoxville]

See, that's why I was so disturbed by the death of Gene Hackman. Because, yeah, I like that he did do that. He like, was like, peace, going to the desert. Adios everybody.

[Millie De Chirico]

But they from, from all accounts. And trust me, I've read about this a lot. Well, because I am in constant fear of things like this happening to me as a single woman who lives alone. Right.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

They really pulled out. Like pulled out in a way that was like, probably not like they didn't. From what I gather, it didn't seem like they were very social.

[Johnny Knoxville]

They went too far.

[Millie De Chirico]

They went too far. They kind of stayed to inside. Didn't, didn't have their social network or anything. So, you know, I try not to. That's why I'm like trying to be nice to people because I'm like, don't forget about me. Because I will one day not be able to walk out of this house and you've got to come over.

[Johnny Knoxville]

A lot of mail piling up in the mailbox. Come knock on my door.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

If you see, find My mummified remains.

[Millie De Chirico]

If you see that I have magazine subscriptions and newspapers subscriptions. I don't need it any. I don't need those. Those will just pile up and fall on me. Just cancel them. And then I saw. I don't know if you've heard about this, but you know Mariska Harry.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I'm very familiar with Ms. Mariska Hargitay because I produce a podcast about a little show called Law and Order svu.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, that's exactly why I said it that way. She made a documentary about her mom, Jayne Mansfield, which is called My Mom Jane. Came out this year. Heartbreaking heart.

[Johnny Knoxville]

It's really sad. The whole thing is just so sad.

[Millie De Chirico]

So sad. But also a testament to, like, her and her brothers and sisters and her husband and just sort of, like, the people that, like, stayed in her life. Like her fathers and everything. I don't know, I just was like, man, I cried. Man, I cried during that. She's lovely. And also the pictures of her from, like, the late 80s and early 90s. Damn, she was the hottest woman. I'm talking about Mariska. I'm not talking. Yeah, like Jay Mansfield. Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I mean, why wasn't she more famous then? It's interesting. Like, Law and Order SVU is kind of her big break. But not that she was old by any means, but I think she was, like, in her 30s, you know? You think she would have blew up earlier than that?

[Millie De Chirico]

Sure. Yeah. She, like, man, she was. She was a smoke show. I. I'mma tell you, if I look like her, I wouldn't be doing this podcast. I wouldn't even be on the Internet.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Throwing that out there. Okay. So I watched those two documentaries. So then I watched a couple of movies to prepare for this episode, which I feel like I should just mention, but I'm not going to go into it because we'll talk about it. Yeah, I watched the first three Jackass movies, obviously, but then the end to the. To put a cap, a feather in the cap of my old film diary, this week I decided to rewatch weird.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Science from 1985, a movie I've never seen.

[Millie De Chirico]

Holy fucking shit. Now, I. Like I said I don't like to make people feel bad for not seeing movies, but I'm actually legit surprised you've never seen this.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I am, too, because I'm like, a John Hughes fan. That's like my era. I don't know. I. It was on TV and I caught snippets of it. I gotta watch it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Very, very contentious at this point in our culture, which. Duh. I get it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Every horny teenage boy movie from the 80s has. Is being dragged at this point.

[Johnny Knoxville]

There's issues.

[Millie De Chirico]

There's issues. That movie particularly was. I have. I have seen that movie so much in my life.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Wow.

[F]

A lot.

[Millie De Chirico]

I can quote it, in fact, because, again, I was a John Hughes freak, too. I actually think the concept in and of itself is so stupid, you know, but the. The issues that arise, at least for me, and I don't, like. I don't think I have as many as others would. Although I do understand why they would have them, because it is, like, gross teenage, you know, masculinity, misogyny, misogyny, homophobia, racism. This kind of stuff. Right. It's just, like, very broad, dumb, 80s comedy strokes. Let's get serious. Yeah, but there is something to be said for a movie that is basically, like, taking the idea of, like, what teenage boys think they want, which is they want to be able to, like, create a woman, which is what's happening right now in, like, AI. Yeah, it's happening, by the way, still, where guys are basically, like, I'm 15, and I want to know what, you know, it would be like to kiss a girl. So I'm gonna, like, create some computer simulation of it. That's exactly what they do.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

But it's completely improbable because it's like, you know, obviously, the science doesn't add up, the size doesn't add up. And then, like, Lisa, who is played by Kelly LeBrock, who's, like, impossibly hot. Like, she's. I was, like, sitting there watching her this time, going, she's got to be, like, the hottest woman I've ever seen. And I say that as a straight woman, and I have no. I've no boat, no bones about it. She's, like, probably the hottest woman I've ever seen in that movie.

[Johnny Knoxville]

If you look like her. No podcast.

[Millie De Chirico]

No podcast. I would know you. I wouldn't even fucking talk to you, bro. Sorry. But, like, like, she kind of is like a Mary Poppins in the. In the sense that she's, like, basically creating alternate universes where things can happen. And there's something fun about that. But there is a couple. There are a couple scenes that are really hard to take in 2025, but for the most part, I'm still, like, sort of charmed by it, and I maybe feel a little guilty about that.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But, you know, you have to look at things through, you know, a certain lens when we're looking At Art from the Past, you know, and no one would have fault you for enjoying a movie like that. But I would love your take, by the way.

[Millie De Chirico]

You should watch it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

1985'S Weird Science, I got. Yeah, I gotta check it out. You know, it's funny, the T. There's a TV show, Weird Science, that I would watch sometimes and it had five seasons.

[Millie De Chirico]

Five seasons, My God.

[Johnny Knoxville]

They always advertised in the back of my comic books and I'd be like, ooh, what's this horny show?

[Millie De Chirico]

Was it like a usa?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[F]

Of course.

[Johnny Knoxville]

My turn.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I watched one movie in addition to my homework. I didn't talk about this last time, did I? Final Destination. Bloodlines. No, from this year. 2025. Year of our Lord.

[Millie De Chirico]

How was it?

[Johnny Knoxville]

This was incredible. Incredible film. I think this is maybe the best Final Destination. I thought it was done so well. It's like very airtight, it's funny, it's insanely violent. It's like so outrageous and it just flies by. I thought it was incredible. Everyone should see this movie. Take your children to this movie. It's so good.

[Millie De Chirico]

How long is it?

[Johnny Knoxville]

It's an hour and 50 minutes. So that's a little long.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's a little long for horror, but.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I know, but it chugs. And guess what? Filipino representation.

[Millie De Chirico]

Get out of here. In what way?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Main character's Filipino.

[Millie De Chirico]

Get out. Who is it?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Her name is Caitlin Santa Juana. She's. Yeah, I mean, she's Canadian, but she's of Filipino descent.

[Millie De Chirico]

Fantastic. You know when you're in a hurry to Google something and you just destroy the spelling of it?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Uh huh.

[Millie De Chirico]

I put in, it looks like a Russian word. Finally. Destiny. Bloodline.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Do you have any elderly relatives that you get emails from and you're like, when did you stop learning how to spell? Does that ever happen to you?

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm putting it in the chat just because it looks so fucking stupid. It's like, I'm in a hurry to find this out.

[Johnny Knoxville]

There's no time. Anyways, check this out. Incredible film.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh yeah, incredible.

[Johnny Knoxville]

It was so fun.

[Millie De Chirico]

Fantastic. Yeah, I had every intention of seeing it, then I sort of slept on it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Slept on it? I think it's on HBO Max now.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, good.

[Johnny Knoxville]

With all of the Final Destination movies and I. And I admittedly haven't seen all of them, but it was good. All right, Millie, moving on to our main discussion. Close it up, doze it up.

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[Johnny Knoxville]

All right, welcome back. It is time for our main discussion. And today we're talking about. I mean, I give this movie five stars on letterboxd.

[Millie De Chirico]

I think I did, too, if it wasn't, or actually, I gotta tell you, I might have given it my actual five stars, which is four and a half. Does that make sense?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, it makes sense. That makes sense. Jackass number two from 2006. You know, there's not really a synopsis to this. You know, it's an extension of the Jackass TV show and the first movie, there's a bunch of stunts, violent stunts and outrageous pranks. And what would you describe what they're doing in these movies? How would you describe.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, this is something I wanted to talk about. In fact, I feel like this is a modern example of a mondo movie. Would you say, perhaps.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I would say so. I'm not totally familiar with mondo movies. I know. Like, what is it? Faces of Death?

[Millie De Chirico]

Sure. Yep. That's a good example.

[Johnny Knoxville]

So that's a good shockumentary.

[Millie De Chirico]

Shockumentary Mondo Kane, which is pretty much where I think the term comes from, which is a 60s Italian movie that was kind of like. So just a really, really, really short, brief history of a mondo movie. First of all, I feel like they. The term mondo and, like, the kind of genre has kind of fallen out of fashion in that classic sense. There's kind of a classic mondo period. There's actually probably two classic mondo periods, one in the 60s and one in the 80s. But basically they were these attempts at making documentaries that were supposed to kind of give you a peek into some kind of world that's very, like, lurid and taboo and salacious. So it was like the original Mondo Kane. And Kane is spelled C, A, N, E, like cane. And it's basically Italian for a dog's world or a dog's eye view of the world or something like that. But it was essentially like a collection of sequences of, like, you know, just weird things. And these are for people who didn't get to travel the world and didn't see, like, indigenous cultures and, like, you know, different outfits and different, like, religious rights and stuff like that. So it was kind of taking advantage of people who were, like, not well traveled and not really, you know, either couldn't be interested or didn't have the means to be interested in the world. Right.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And it was meant to shock and titillate in awe. That was the whole point. Over the years, in the 60s, they started getting a little bit more. I don't know, they upped the stakes a little bit. A lot of them started being made in America. And it would focus on places like Hollywood, of course, or like New York City. Places where if you were living in, like, Minnesota and you didn't go to New York, you'd be like, oh, my God, New York's so crazy. Look at all these crazy things that happen there. So it was kind of a peek into these, like. Again, these kind of, like, taboo, salacious worlds. Then in the 80s, you get kind of a resurgence of them, probably because of home video. But that's where you come in with the faces of death and the traces of death and the faces of gore and the whatever. This kind of, like, fake death sequence. Things like. Because that was the other part of it, too, was a lot of times these Mondo movies were being staged. They were not real.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I see.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right. So it was like, as much as it was kind of scary to be like, oh, my God, I feel like I'm watching a snuff movie or something. You're like, no, these are, like, people recreating or faking things like this. Right.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But that's different than Jackass, I would say, because the relationship the viewer has with the Jackass boys is very direct. They're speaking to you, the audience member. Yes. And it's all real.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. I think that, like, that's what is interesting. And this is why I call it Mondo in that way, which is that basically they're. They're making a documentary or they're at least you know, cobbling together scenes of realness. Right. That is hard to watch. Is taboo, if you think about it. And we'll get. We'll probably get to that later with, like, the nudity and all this stuff. But it's also like a peek into the world of these kind of, like, skater guys, essentially. And that's really where I came in to the Jackass world was through, like, skate videos. I don't know if that was your. Well, experience.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, I had heard of CKY Camp, Kill Yourself, which was like, Bam Margera's crew in Philadelphia putting these, like. They were like. There was more like skate videos and there Was like stunt stuff. I can't even really remember them. But there was also like music videos, because I think Jess, Bam's brother was a musician and there was a band, C, K, Y and everything. But I mean, how I discovered Jackass was watching MTV at 1 in the morning when I was 13 years old.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, and it really rocked my world. I was obsessed with the show Jackass. When it came out, it felt like something so new and exciting and thrilling and you would just watch one after another because it was just sort of like non stop, you know, there's no narrative to these things. It's just these crazy stunts or it's just kind of like funny things they do. You know, it's a vibe. It's a very specific vibe.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's kind of how I think of it too, because I do think that, like, I remember seeing one of the CKY videos. I think it was called CKY2K. And it was a lot of like, yeah, Bam's crew with Brandon DiCamilio. Is that his name?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Rob himself.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, Rob himself, Ryan Dunn, all these folks. And it was like, yeah, a combination of skate tricks. Then kind of like it almost seems like B roll or behind the scenes footage of them just like fucking around and like pulling pranks on each. And they were just kind of these comp videos of like hanging out with skater dudes, which at the time that was my main interest. Being in high school in the 90s, I was like, yeah, I want to hang out with guys like this. I thought they were funny and weird and that kind of stuff. So when Jackass. When I did see Jackass on mtv, I thought, oh, my God, like, these are basically these skate videos, except now it's a TV show.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And they kind of added, you know, kind of the other, like, other crews to it. So there was that original kind of CKY crew, but then there was like the Steve O. And Chris Pontius stuff. And then Johnny came from.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, it came from Big Brother Skate magazine and Jeff Tremaine and Johnny Knoxville and Spike Jones kind of all met up. And because Johnny Knoxville was pitching around kind of a Hunter S. Thompson kind of style of series of articles he wanted to do where he like had weapons tested on him, you know, like tasers and rubber bullets. And he even got shot with a gun with like a bulletproof vest on.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And so he was kind of shopping that around and he came in contact with Jeff Tremaine, who is at Big Brother Skate magazine, and they sort of did that. And then Steve O was in Florida, like, this circus performer, and he was trying to submit stuff to Big Brother magazine. And then. So there was, like, that crew and then the CKY crew, and they kind of came together to do Jackass, like, all together. It was kind of like these two separate crews were kind of doing a similar thing. So that was sort of the impotent. The origin behind it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, Well, I. And to be completely honest with you, like, you know, despite the fact that I had already sort of liked watching, you know, like, edgelord skate videos and other people doing pranks, and I was a huge fan of Mondo movies, like I said before, I do actually still to this day believe this, that there was. There was something that was happening with, like, the Jackass show and then the subsequent movies that I feel like had this. Maybe it was an unintended effect, which is that it was, like, a way for people to see male bonding in a way that I don't think I'd ever seen before, necessarily.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes. I think it is a revolutionary representation of, like, vulnerable masculinity.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And, like, friendship.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Because there's a lot of them where, like, they'll be like, I'm scared. Fuck this. I'm not doing this. Like, they're really scared. And they're showing all that on the show. It's not just the stunt. It's also like, you know, in Jackass Number two, Dave England watches these rubber boys. Bullets, like, destroy a mannequin. And he. And they're like, okay, you guys are up next. And he's like, I'm. I'm like, I'm having an anxiety attack. I'm not gonna.

[Millie De Chirico]

I can't.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I can't do that. But also, they do get hurt. And then they. They're like, I'm in pain. I'm hurt. You know, they're not tough guys either, you know, And I don't know. I just. I feel like you don't see that. You don't see that type of masculinity on screen. It's either, like, tough guys who get hurt, but, like, power through, or it's like super weepy, sensitive poet guys, but never this kind of in between doofus guy who is, like, you know, showing his emotions on screen as he's getting, you know, kicked in the nuts or whatever.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right. And that's, I think, kind of what I. What I always think about when I think about, like, 90s skaters and sort of the worlds that I traversed when I was in high school with, like, knowing skater guys and kind of Being obsessed with skater guys. I've talked about this with Danielle on our old podcast, Ad Nauseam, because she was also. She actually skated. I was simply a poser. I just wanted to, like, hang out with skaters, but she. She actually skated a little bit. Was that they were. They were like athletes that weren't real athletes in. In that traditional, masculine sense. Right. So it's like, yeah, they were athletic. They could skate. They were, you know, they had body confidence and they knew how to, like, you know, keep themselves on a skateboard. But they were also, like, not macho.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And they were like, there's a real lack of macho.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

In this.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And they're like. They were. They're all about, you know, like, not being too proud to fail and fall and break bones and, you know, be scared of, you know, putting beer funnels in their asses and things like that. I mean, it's like, totally normal stuff which humanizes men to me, which is what I needed so badly as a young woman was that I needed to feel like guys were, like, normal and nice. So I don't know, watching Jackass was kind of like that for me, where I was like, oh, it's like a peek into. Again, I use the word peak because I was using it talking about Mondo movies. But, like, it was a peek into this world of guys who were, like, also super confident with, like, being naked around each other and, like, touching each other's bodies, which I've never seen before. Like, I was like, oh, I don't. Yeah. I don't watch guys, like, you know, basically hold guys's balls to things.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Stuff.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And, like, there's no. Which would have been very. There's no, like, gay jokes. Like, you're gay. You know, it's like, there's not a whiff of that to be seen.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And it's refreshing.

[Millie De Chirico]

It is. And that's. That's, like, the one thing that I will always defend is that I do think it is, like, it. Is that exactly the thing that you mentioned. Although it's funny now because I actually asked a friend of mine to watch Jackass 2 with me. Like, I was like, oh, you should, you know, hey, I gotta watch Jackass 2 again for the podcast. What you want to watch in. He was like, hell, no. He was like, this is like, the reason why all these, like, stupid TikTok bros exist. And I was just like, huh, maybe.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I mean, that's really interesting because I was thinking about Gen Z. Yeah. And I was like, gen Z could Never.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Because I feel like there's a real lack of control. They give up complete control in Jackass. Like, they set things in motion, but they don't know what's going to happen. That's kind of the beauty of it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, like, for example, one of the kind of a famous image is Johnny Knoxville putting on a blindfold and lighting a cigarette as they unleash a bull at him. Who knows what's going to happen, right? He gets flipped, like, perfectly. But, like, I feel like TikTok is so manicured and they're in such control of their image and the outcome that I feel like they're completely different. Because when you don't know what's going to happen, you are completely vulnerable to how you are represented. You know what I mean?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, yeah. It makes me wonder because it feels like Jackass sort of existed in a pre social media era, almost, even though I know that's not entirely true. But at least the show and the first couple movies existed pre TikTok for sure.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Absolutely.

[Millie De Chirico]

And pre Instagram stories or whatever. So it is like this contained universe of like, oh, these are like. These are like real reactions and real things happening. I mean, it's a documentary. We're probably seeing the best of the best, you know, and not every single take, but we're also, like, seeing things that are real and having people having real reactions. And you're right, it isn't this, like, manicured thing. Although I want to say this, this was, like, part of the reason why I think I was compelled to do number two, Jackass two. I don't know if you've seen. How long has it been since you've seen the first Jackass?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Probably three years. It's somewhat recent.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. The one thing that really stuck out to me between one and two is that the production value got upped a lot in two. The first Jackass movie was pretty much like the show. It was still really rough around the edges. It felt kind of like very, you know, digital video. A lot of, like, you know, there was no. I mean, there was an opening sequence, but it wasn't. I just felt like the production value went up significantly, probably because the first one was so popular that they got more money to do the second one, of course. And so the second one feels like a more fully formed piece than the first one. And I will say my favorite. The reason why Jackass 2 is my favorite is because of the end of Jackass 2, which is a total nod to Busby Berkeley.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

That is my Favorite shit in the world is that whole ending sequence of jackass 2 with, like, the Steve O. As Esther Williams and then, like, you know, 50s, like, Technicolor Western musicals and like the. The crazy stage stuff. I mean, I just loved that, I.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Think too, like, just to go back to, like, sort of like TikTok stars and how different Jackass is from those people.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

They are so committed to doing the dance and the singing, right?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Like, it's what makes it funny, you know, but they are. There's no kind of, like, wink at the camera. Like, isn't this funny that I'm doing this? It's like, no, they're trying to do it. Obviously. It's funny that they're, like, attempting to do a Busby Berkeley ending.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But there's no. They have. They're both feet in. They don't have one foot out the door, you know, like, they're just. They're very committed to it in a sincere way, which I think we don't see anymore.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. I feel part of it. Hopefully this isn't going to get too intellectual, psychological or something, but, like, part of it is that I feel like those Jackass guys have reference for things like that. That's true. I've read many articles with Johnny Knoxville and with some of the creators of Jackass and some of the Jackass guys talking about how they loved Looney Tunes cartoons and they loved the old Tom and Jerry cartoons and Bugs Bunny and like, all of those, like, Roadrunner, you know, cartoons where the antics are so violent and so funny that they just wanted to be like, real life versions of that. They were like, oh, yeah, we want to drop anvils on people's heads and doorways, and we want to, like, you.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Know, God, have a giant hand come from a wall and slap somebody down. That's the first one, I guess, but.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, that's the third one, I think.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, is that the third one?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes, because that is so funny when I re. Watched is definitely, I think the third one where they had one of the guys bring it, like, all this soup, like, for some. You know, they wanted to basically hit him with his giant hand.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah. And it's like, high five. And this hand just comes out of nowhere and like, oh, it's. It is a cartoon.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's fantastic. It's like, that is the essence of what. Of Jackass to me is like, that. That cartoonishly stupid stuff. And also, I mean, even though this makes me gag, when they do, like, models, like models of things, and then like, it's something disgusting, involving models, like, either someone's poop or someone.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, they have, like, a miniature. They have a little diorama, and you're like, oh, this is cute. And then a giant piece of. From someone's butt falls onto the diorama and it's funny, or it's like a.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's like a puppet in a play and it's actually someone's dick or whatever. You're like, oh, my God. But. But those. That's what I mean is, like, those Jackass guys loved old entertainment. They loved old cartoons. They loved old movies. They loved, like, the old showbiz stuff, and it shows in these Jackass movies. Whereas I feel like, Sorry, I hate to call you out, Gen Z, but, like, when I watch a TikTok, there's.

[Johnny Knoxville]

No, like, there's no cinematic references.

[Millie De Chirico]

There's no reference. There's no antics, though. There's no anything. It's just basically, you guys, like, pulling up at, you know, wherever and just, like, filming things. I don't know. To me, I just feel like maybe it's because I'm older and I get those references that the Jackass movies are funnier to me. Like.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh. I mean, I don't know if I've laughed harder at a movie ever, to be honest.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. My favorite is when they dress in costumes. Like, when they dress in a costume based on the stunt that they're doing. You know, that really cracks me up. Any kind of old school Tom and Jerry scenario is my favorite.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah. I mean, I love the. Like, this is kind of a classic, but this is, like, obviously based on Looney Tunes. Johnny Knoxville on a rocket. What would happen if we put Johnny Knoxville on a rocket? And it's like, holy shit. That's what would happen.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, now I have to ask.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know this is, like, a very difficult proposal, but I'm gonna ask anyway. What is your ranking of.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, it's hard because I kind of have tears. Can I do it that way? It's hard. I'll rank them. Well, I feel like the top tiered guys, obviously, are Johnny Knoxville, Bam Margera, Steve O. And I'd throw Chris Pontius into that top. If I had to rank those guys, I would say Johnny Knoxville is number one. I think he's an American hero. He's the last great showman. Of course, I would put Bam Margera number two. He's kind of the lead guitar, lead act. I feel like Johnny Knoxville is kind of the architect of the whole show in some ways. But Bam Margera is like. He brings kind of a cool, hip, leading man quality to the. The show.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And then Steve O Is just a wild man. I'd probably put Steve. Would I put Steve O. Number two. This is hard. This is hard.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's hard. I told you it's hard.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I'll put Steve O number three for now. Chris Pontius number four. And then after that, I would go Wee Man. I like Wee man, though, but I would go Wee Man. Ryan Dunn, Dave England, Preston Lacy, and then Danger Aaron is probably my least favorite. So what about you? What's your ranking?

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm with you. That number one with a bullet, with a rocket, in fact, is Johnny Knoxville.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I want to talk more about him after this, but of course, I mean.

[Millie De Chirico]

I have a lot to say. He used to live in my neighborhood when I looked in LA and I saw him so many times, so many times. And also, he's like a Tennessee guy.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Dangerously attractive. There's so many reasons to like Johnny Knox.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Here's one thing I don't know if we've exactly touched upon. I think all these guys are pretty hot. Like, they're all really cute.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, they're cute. What? We wouldn't follow the boy band if the boy band didn't work.

[Johnny Knoxville]

It's exactly right.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay. Johnny Knoxville is definitely number one. And I think the reason why is because you're right. He's a showman. He kind of has the pomp and circumstance of, like, doing the old stunts. Like, he kind of presents it in a way that's like. He's like an old carnival barker. I love it. I love it, love it, love it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And I think his steady hand, he never shows fear.

[F]

No.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He's the only one that's not like, I don't want to do this. You never see him like that. He's. He's very much a showman in the way that it's like, no, I said I'm doing this, and we're doing it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

There's no going back. He's like Evil Knievel in that way. Like.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Once he's decided to do it, it's happening, you know?

[Millie De Chirico]

And he kind of has. He kind of has this older brother quality to him that I really appreciate.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But in number two, I feel like especially there's a lot of times where the guys, you'll hear them be like, knoxville's insane, or they'll be, like, really afraid. Like that bull scene where they're on the teeter. Totter.

[F]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

They show the guys, like, legitimately frightened for the guys in the.

[Millie De Chirico]

The Bull. Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, and they're like. You can tell Steve O. Is, like, disturbed.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But it's like Johnny Knoxville just doesn't. He never quits.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. I don't. I think it was the second one where they flip the golf cart.

[Johnny Knoxville]

No, that's not. That's not number two. That might be number one.

[Millie De Chirico]

I think it's number one. That was terrifying. Like, I was like. I mean, golf carts kill guys. That's why you don't race around in them. I'll just keep saying they do, but it's. There was a thing in number one where it looks pretty. Pretty hairy for Johnny Knoxville. But I love him the most. And I, like, not just because he was in a John Waters movie. And he's just generally, like. He feels like a guy that I would know from the South. Like, he's just kind of like a diminutive, skinny, like, weird guy that also loves weird things. I don't know. He just reminds me of home, I suppose. But anyway, my second is Chris Pontius, and I get it. Yes. Because I feel like there's a sensitivity to Chris Pontius, like a kind of. I don't know if it's a dandy.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Quality to him, but his stunts, he was never like. To me, even though the first stunt of the movie is his dick getting bit by a snake.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I always felt like his stunts on the show were like, him dressed as the devil going down the street, being like, keep. Is it Keep God out of California.

[Millie De Chirico]

Or something like that.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Or he, like, would go into a Best Buy and start playing music and start stripping. Like, that was. He was always getting naked, and his were more. His were less based off, like, physical pain than the other guys.

[Millie De Chirico]

He was very okay with being like a leopard print thong. He kind of reminds me of David Lee Roth a little bit. He's a little zesty. I think that's why I like him.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, he's a little zesty.

[Millie De Chirico]

He's a little.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I've actually seen him act in stuff more than any of the other guys.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. From there, I'm kind, like. I used to think. Not gonna lie, I used to get freaked out by Steve O. Back in the day. And I think it's just because he was just so crazy. Like, when he put the fish hook.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Through his mouth, I think that is almost too much.

[Millie De Chirico]

Too much, man. I was like.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And he goes into a different level where I'm like, you're. Oh, you're like, actually, like, self mutilating.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah. But he's kind of around still, right? He does, like, things on social media. Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He's like, completely sober and, like, he's in a good spot.

[Millie De Chirico]

See, I think that's what I like about him now is that he's kind of like, yeah, he's sober. He's kind of like assessing his life a little bit. But honestly, it's kind of a tie between him and I. I have to say. RIP Ryan Dunn. But Ryan, done in the old Jackass shows, but in the movies, was always the biggest grump.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He's a big grump. I feel like he's a little bit more prominent in the first one than he was in number two.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And I have read a little bit about sort of like the timeline of the whole, like, him and Bam Margera and the kind of falling out of things. You know, they all kind of split up or whatever.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But, yeah, I believe Ryan Dunn didn't talk to any of them for two years between number two and number three.

[Millie De Chirico]

Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Makes sense. But I. I always love the kind of reluctant, like, grump. The guy that's like, I can't believe we're doing this. This is so insane.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Like, I think it was the first one when they got put in a barrel. Ryan done got put in a barrel and pushed over the waterfall. And he's just complaining about the whole.

[Millie De Chirico]

He's got to be that guy, you know, and he very rarely, like, takes his clothes off, which I really appreciate. I love that guy, too. That doesn't, like, isn't quick. Quick to be in the underwear.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah. The anti. Zach Braff.

[Millie De Chirico]

The guy's a little bit more, you know, reserved about showing skin. I appreciate that. And then I don't know, from there. I do like. I like. I like Wee man and Preston together. I think that they're like, a good. Yeah, like, they're a good pairing. And I know why they pair them together, but I actually think that they're, like, funny together.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And then I don't know, I think danger Aaron and Dave. God, they just get the ass end of every.

[Johnny Knoxville]

They do. I do feel kind of like bad for them. They get like, the shittiest ones.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, my God. Like the word. They get the worst of the worst. And they always have teeth missing and they always look like they're. They've been knocked unconscious and revived. I don't know. Those poor guys, so.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And then Bam is your least favorite?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I think so.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Wow.

[Millie De Chirico]

I don't Know, I. There was kind of an energy for a while where he felt like he was kind of like. I don't know, just kind of, like, too bratty, perhaps. And then, like, although I do love his parents, but there was even in those moments where I felt like he was like, okay, he pranks his parents, we get that, but he was actually, like, too bratty about it. I don't know. I'm kind of like, yeah, I mean, I guess your parents aren't getting paid to do all this stuff, but, like, I mean, Bam.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Bargera is an interesting person in the history of Jackass because he's really on the outs with them now, and he is really struggling with, like, addiction. And it's sad because I think a lot of them. And then, like, Ryan Dunn died in, I wanna say, 2011.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah. Ryan Dunn died in 2011 at the age of 34, which does kind of cast a shadow over everything. And he was struggling with addiction, and he was drunk driving, and he died.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And it's hot. You know, that does make it all. You know, you're always worried one of these guys is going to get killed, you know, doing it. But then it does sort of make you view the whole thing from a little bit of a different point of view, you know?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, these guys were like skater dudes. I mean, they, you know, they weren't like, you know, from the Ivy League acting schools. Like, they were, you know, like, kind of like street kids, like, hanging out and pulling pranks. It's not, you know, that far of a stretch to imagine that maybe something bad would happen to them sometime. You know, it's unfortunate, but. Yeah, I think that's the interesting about this whole. They feel like, to me, pretty authentically punk in that way, whereas I feel like. I don't know. What. What's the comp. Is it the try guys? Like, what are we comping now?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Like, what are these try guys? The Buzzfeed try guys? Are they even attempting to be punk?

[Millie De Chirico]

No, of course. What I'm saying is, like, what's this, like, modern iteration of, like, this thing of, like, here's a group of guys or here's a group of people that are going to do something wild or do something, like, weird. They're going to be like, your.

[Johnny Knoxville]

That's the thing. It is like TikTok or like, streamers on Twitch, you know, Kai Sanat or Drew Ski, but it's so less dangerous or trying to do something. You know, I. I think there's a real lack of punk rock going on right now.

[Millie De Chirico]

And listen, you don't got to tell me.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I can't imagine Gen Z doing something as beautiful as Jackass.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I think the punk is. The entire factor to this whole conversation is punk rock. And coming from, you know, that world, which, like I said, I can't even believe I said Try Guys as in the same sentence, really. And this is me saying that having seen only like, one episode of this Try Guys thing. But I know people that are into it, so.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Or worried about it, but it's just everything is so soft and predictable now. It makes me so sad. Listen, I just watched this TikTok, or I guess it was a video from the poet and author Ocean Vuong.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Do you know this person?

[Millie De Chirico]

Of course I do.

[Johnny Knoxville]

He was talking about his students. He's a college professor. He's talking about his students and how so many of them are like, I want to be a poet, I want to be a writer. But none of them are doing it because they're terrified of looking cringe. They're terrified of looking like they are trying too hard or attempting to do something and failing. They don't want to be cringe. Cringe is the worst thing possible.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And do you think the Jackass guys feared cringe? You know, it's like so many young people are worried that they won't look fully polished or someone will make fun of them for being sincere. Because I think Jackass. There's a real sincerity to it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, and Gen Z is afraid to look sincere lest they be cringe.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, they have more eyeballs on their things. That's the.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's ultimately a huge part, too, is that, you know, back in the day when Jackass was conceived, it was like, oh, you might have a video of.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You.

[Millie De Chirico]

Having, you know, to inhale some dude's farts in a gas mask that might be shown to other skaters and might be sold in, like, a skate shop. But that's the extent of it. There really wasn't anything. There were, like, little to no stakes, even in the context of a television show. I mean, that Jackass TV show was so fucking popular, it was probably beamed into like, a hundred million homes, like, you know, the 68 comeback special from Elvis or some shit. But it's at the same time, like, there is no the quality of the Internet, which is that things are memeified and preserved forever and ever and ever and remixed and sent to people's phones in their homes. It's like that quality of it, I think, is what Might explain why the Jackass Guys went harder than any of these Tiktokers. But at the same time, like, those Jackass guys are punk rock, and that doesn't seem like a thing anymore. It's really funny.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I have an ethos that I don't feel like these streamers have.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Well, it's funny you say that Ocean Wong thing, because there's also this other tick going around on TikTok of Matt Rogers from the Lost Culturesis podcast.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Also dogging out Gen Z for being, like, obsessed with cringe and calling millennials like losers because they're cringe. I don't know. You should look it up.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But basically, I should look it up. I'm sure. I agree. I always agree with Matt Rogers, generally.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I'm sure.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I agree.

[Millie De Chirico]

He's basically like, y' all are making fun of us for being earnest and cringe and stupid. But guess what? You will also be stupid when you get old. Like, every day you live is more time for your style and everything that you hold true to phase out and become cringe. Do you know what I mean? Like, there's always a generation coming after you that's gonna think you're a loser. So, like, yeah, lighten up type of thing.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But I do think that, like, Gen Z is really inhibited creatively because the creative act inherently, there is a point where you depart from something you can control.

[Millie De Chirico]

Sure.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Like, you are putting something out there into the world, and you honestly don't know how people are going to react. And it might be embarrassing.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But that is inherent to the creative process. And so if you're not willing to take that leap, there will be no. You will not create anything.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

So that's, like, I don't know, the.

[Millie De Chirico]

Foundation of this podcast.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, we are cringe, but we are free.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's right. I mean, like, if you sat around caring, you just would be completely catatonic from fear and anxiety of the perception of what you're doing or you or your ideas or whatever. I actually am surprised that Jackass 2 has brought us to this point where we're talking about creative inspiration. I'm not surprised that's an unintended consequence of watching Jackass 2, but I love it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, I think that Jackass as a form is so creative. Like, I was so inspired watching this, and it's so, like, there's so much thought that goes into these bits.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And I think it's cool when they just, like, show one that's, like, five seconds long and clearly took A huge setup. Like, there's, like, a scene where they're in Bam's house and they set up a ski hill on their steps, but we only see it for, like, 10 seconds.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Which makes me feel.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I don't really have a point to that. I just. I was just so inspired watching this, and I was just like, the form of Jackass as a film is so interesting and unique, and I just really enjoyed watching.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. It's this movie. It really. To me, this is why I think, too. I mean, there has been times where a sequel has been a better movie than the first and the subsequent ones. A lot of people think that Nightmare on Elm Street 2 is the best. Nightmare on Elm street, as well as other movies, other properties. The Godfather 2, Evil Dead 2. Exactly. Why I think 2 is the best, perhaps out of all of them, is because it is. It is a perfect step up from the first one, which was very raw and, like, the TV show and kind of still pretty lo fi. But it's not like, like, once you jump to Jackass 3D. By the way, Jackass 3D is great, too. They're all great. I literally have seen every Jackass movie in a movie theater. They. I go opening weekend. I'm obsessed. I love the Jackass movies. And if they make Jackass 27, I'm gonna go, I don't care if I'm 90 years old. I don't care if I'm Spike Jones and the bad grandma boobs costume. I'm going to see the new Jackass movie. But I feel like Jackass 3D got leveled up. Like, you could really tell that they were like, oh, we have, like, Hollywood money now because they all have tans. That was the first thing I noticed. And Jackass 3D, I was like, oh, these guys will have tans. They're not, like, pasty white with, like, bad skater tattoos. They're all, like, tan buff. Johnny Knoxville talks at one point, talks about working out. He's like, oh, yeah, do squats now. And I'm like, damn, these guys. They made it, baby. Which is fine. They. And as the movies go on, that, like, the. They. They keep the pranks fresh, which is why they can continue to do this shit for the rest of their lives if they wanted to. But it is this. I think two is this perfect encapsulation of, like, the best they can be. It's like, yeah, a little bit more money than shooting things on camcorders, but not, like, gobsmackingly huge amounts of money. Does that make sense?

[Johnny Knoxville]

It's still raw still, but it's got. It's leveled up more.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, but. And also, to me, the. You just can't beat the Busby Berkeley ending. And even the beginning, like, the. The end caps of the movies are always, like, these big production numbers, and they're so funny.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Like, did you have a favorite stunt in number two?

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, my. Jesus Christ. Where. So this is one of the ones that involves Bam Margera's mom and dad, but the one where they dress Preston up like Phil and they sneak him.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Into surprisingly similar bodies.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes, but the mom, like, that whole. The whole sequence where she's like, God, get off of me. Like, what is your problem? And then she, like, this is all in the dark. And then she, like, reaches back, she's like, what? Like Phil realizing in the dark that it's not her husband. And then just like, the moment of her, like, flipping the fuck out, that it was like, some random dude, she, like, falls on the floor. I was like, God, I hope they paid her a ton of money to put up with all that.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But then at the end, she's smiling, which I was like, okay, so you are Bam Margera's mom. Like, there's at least kind of like, she knows that this was funny, you.

[Millie De Chirico]

Know, like, yeah, is this the one? Is to the one with the brand where he gets the brand on his ass?

[Johnny Knoxville]

That is.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, my God. But she. He, like, goes home. This is what I mean about the Brattiness. He's like, oh, check out my ass. And she's just like, oh, you had such a cute butt. Why did you ruin it? You know? And I was like, oh, that's a mom. That's a. That's a mom thing.

[Johnny Knoxville]

That's a mom. I never liked Viva la Bam as much either. I wasn't as big on that, or I honestly, I didn't like Wild Boys that much either. They just felt there was something about, like, watching an episode of Jackass was like, entering a world, you know, and it was a certain type. And maybe it was that Spike Jones, Jeff Tremaine touch that gave it sort of this energy that you were, like, hanging out with these guys that felt kind of, like, unpolished, but, like, I don't know. It just. You were submerged into this world in a way that I didn't feel the same for Wild Boys and Viva Lavan.

[Millie De Chirico]

Viva la band. Listen, you can't. Sometimes the band is too good. And the side projects, the respect. You respect them, but you're not really as into them. You know what I'm saying?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, well. Anything else you want to touch upon?

[Millie De Chirico]

I think it was great that we were able to really chew a lot of. Chew a lot of meat on this boat. Can I.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Can I recommend something? So I used to produce. I think I've recommended this podcast before. I used to produce a podcast called Switchblade Sisters.

[Millie De Chirico]

Sure.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And we had the filmmaker and cinematographer Kirsten Johnson on the show to talk about the documentary, which is sort of similar to Jackass, called Dick Johnson Is Dead. And it's about her dad going into the late stages of Alzheimer's, and they keep doing these, like, fake stunts where they, like, fake his death. And it is sort of like Jackass Light sort of. And it's very funny. But she was on the podcast Switchblade Sisters to talk about how Jackass inspired her.

[Millie De Chirico]

Wow.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And it is one. It's probably the best episode of the podcast. She goes into depths of, like, the vulnerability and masculinity of these Jackass boys, how they're, you know, their relationships with their bodies and how they are communicating something with their bodies in these movies, and how your relationship with your body, as you're ending, you know, as your life is coming to an end, changes and Dick Johnson is Dead sort of touches upon that. So really great podcast conversation and episode and. But, yeah, you should check that out if anyone's interested in that.

[Millie De Chirico]

Cool.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Should we move on?

[Millie De Chirico]

Let's go. Okay, everybody, we have an amazing guest. For this edition of my area of expertise. I would consider him an old friend. I will say that I don't know when the threshold for old friend and like friend is, but, like, I would. We've been in these film streets for a long time together, and I'm just super thrilled that he's here to give us his time talking about his area of expertise, which is very fascinating, very specific, as we like here on Dear Movies, I Love youe, but our guest is a freelance trans film critic, programmer and researcher based in upstate New York. He focuses on queer cinema and the history of the trans film image. And his book that he co wrote with his fellow film critic, Willow Maclay, came out last year. It's amazing. It's called Corpses, Fools and the History and Future of Transness in Cinema. And I guarantee that this book is a classic already. It's gonna be taught in schools everywhere. I just know it. But we're very, very, very happy to have our guest, Kaden Mark Gardner. Hello, Kayden.

[F]

Hi, Millie. Hi, Casey. Thank you for having me on.

[Millie De Chirico]

We have to get into this area of expertise of yours because it's so, again, so specific. It also feels so you. And again, I don't want to, you know, because I know you. I just feel like it's you. But if you want.

[F]

And just to tease, it's tease. If you thought I. If I were talking about trans cinema, and I think my. I stated my area of expertise on the surface, doesn't sound anything like what I've written in and published, but yes, it's me.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, okay, so tell everybody then what your area of expertise is.

[F]

The 1950s diner aesthetic in both spirit and also, period. Like, I think I have a kind of latitude, huge latitude. And what would be considered acceptable in this, even though it's a very specific thing. And I believe, like, my kind of example is something that actually came from the 1950s, which is the Frank Tashlin film the Girl Can't Help It.

[Millie De Chirico]

So walk us through a little bit about. So you're. So you're saying the Girl Can't Help it was kind of the seed for this obsession, or was there anything else? Like, were you a diner person? Like, growing up, did you go to diners a lot or, you know, did you like, hang out in diners as a teenager? I know I did, but I just was wondering if there was something else that influenced this passion of yours.

[F]

Well, it's a crucial part of my origin story that actually, in a sort of long game way, does connect to the book and at least one movie, at least where I hung out at this 1950s diner, ish place called Bruno's in Albany, New York. And while it wasn't shaped like this sort of tin can and tubular train car style of a 1950s diner, inside it had everything. It had chrome accents, it had a checkerboard, it had a checkerboard floor. It had jukeboxes at the tables, at the seatings. And it also had a lot of 1950s kitchen memorabilia all over the place. And I remember locking eyes with one particular piece of memorabilia, which was the James Dean poster from Giant. And I remember that was kind of the anatomy of my obsession with James Dean, which then later led me down the rabbit hole of one of the movies featured in the book, Come Back to the Five and Dime. Jimmy Dean. Jimmy Dean, which itself is about sort of nostalgia and memorabilia tied to James Dean that's all over that movie. But the Girl Can't Help it. Kind of, for me, even though it takes place exactly at that time, sort of has this sort of relationship of being this sort of jukebox musical review, which even though it doesn't have Elvis, because Elvis was just breaking as that movie was happening, it does feature all the players at the time. And that can include both the rock, such as Eddie Cochran in the movie Little Richard. Of course, his song the Girl Can't Help it is the title of the movie. But also torch song singers like Julie London and doo wop performers like the Platters, who are completely iconic to me. And, yeah, I have a soft spot for that period as far as Meet American pop, particularly the Platters and the whole doo wop kind of stuff. I listen to a doo wop radio station regularly and yeah, I have an affinity for that. And I also obviously have an affinity for a lot of the movies that were coming out at that time. And I also found Frank Tashlin to be a wonderful sort of character that sort of had this relationship with both iconography and the public reaction to that. This is probably his best known live action film, but he was obviously, famously an animator who did Looney Tunes cartoons.

[Millie De Chirico]

And.

[F]

I think forerunner to the Girl Can't Help it is his 1940s cartoon called Swooner Crooner, which kind of, you could almost say predicted the sort of hysteria around Elvis, because it's about the hysteria regarding figures at that time, be it Sinatra, Bing Crosby, Cap Calloway, and how suggestive and blue a lot of the jokes are, such as the signs of the sort of hysteria and arousal from seeing these cartoon character, these cartoon crooners perform and stuff. Has all these people laying eggs.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[F]

And it kind of makes me think of the girl Can't Help it with the famous milk shots of milk popping and expl. And exploding when Gene Mansfield walks by.

[Millie De Chirico]

Jeez. I mean, suggestive much? Yeah, no, I. It's so funny because I. When I was, like, thinking about your area of expertise, I was going, okay, so we have to make a line of demarcation, I feel like, because you have the movies of the time period that are featuring the diners of the time period. Right. But then you have this, like, whole. There's like this whole, like, you know, proliferation of that aesthetic that has persisted throughout the years where it's almost kind of like a joke at this point. Like, I think about a movie like Ghost World, for example, with Rouseville, and I'm like. It became kind of this. I don't know, this, like, symbol of boomerness or something. I don't know. And I thought about, like, my friends, dads and stuff that were, like, obsessed with, you know, like, they had these like basements that were set up like 50s diner looking things with like the straw holder that pops out and the whole like. Yeah, just like, like retrofitting an entire basement as a 50s diner.

[Johnny Knoxville]

It is interesting. I feel like there is like subs after, you know, the 1950s and diner culture, it now holds a place that's both ironic and sincere at the same time.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Like you, it holds that boomer space, but also like ghost world, they keep going back to that diner. It's a safe place in a lot of ways, you know.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, so I wanted to ask, is there besides the girl can't help it, is there other movies of this era that you would suggest people watch to kind of get the vibe of the diner vibe, if you will. I mean, there is. Isn't there a great diner scene in the Wild One? There's a diner. Diner scenes in the Wild One.

[F]

Oh, yeah. He. He, like Brando definitely has a sort of playful kind of let's listen to music type of moment there. I'm trying to think of others. I almost want to say Peyton Place because they're mainly because again, I think again, it's a, it's a, it's a. It's a. It's a text that shook everyone to their core when it came out first as a book. And while the movie does. Does shave off some of the edge from the original book, it's still a pretty good sort of look into sort of the dark undercurrents. I would say David lynch himself, his whole world and oeuvre itself can be seen as a 1950s diner aesthetic. And when you mentioned it was so me, like Willow often said, we're both Lynchian in the fact that she's into the sort of industrial gothic, fractured feminine, fallen woman side of his work. While I'm definitely the 1950s diner.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes, I'm with you. I'm with you on that.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, yeah, with David lynch, how does that differentiate for you in terms of the way he is presenting kind of diner culture? Because so many of his movies have scenes, important scenes in diners. I mean, I think about Mulholland Drive and Blue Velvet especially. But how is his interpretation of diner culture different from one than like the girl can't help it.

[F]

Well, I think there's kind of sort of simple. More sort of. It seems simple on the surface. Like he likes the. Lynch likes the ambiance of drinking just coffee and eating pie, whereas Tashlin is not really sort of diving into the finer things in life, so to speak. It Is mostly to move plot forward or just have a moment to have a joke or two for the central characters in his work. But lynch definitely wants to live in that 1950s diner aesthetic or at least have his characters sort of situate themselves in it. Because it fascinates him as kind of a place that can feel like it's lost in time in many ways. Whereas I think Tashlin, while being very much of his time, I think by the 1960s, when he was doing, like, Doris Day pictures, and I love Doris Day, so I'm not saying this in a dismissive manner towards her. I think he sort of felt like he was out of time. And also the sort of Looney Tunes renaissance was also kind of fading out by the 1960s. So he kind of becomes the person who becomes the sort of figure for nostalgia to. To obsess over, but not necessarily the one who builds those worlds that hold the nostalgia like lynch does.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, it's interesting because I do think that if I, you know, if I really, like, scope out on it. And I think about how many movies since the 1950s have kind of employed the 50s aesthetic of a diner in movies. I mean, I think of Michael. Michael Diner, Michael Mann movies, you know, like Grease. I mean, obviously, stuff like that. But then, you know, like, When Harry Met Sally and things of this nature. And it's kind of like I can't think of another physical location, maybe, or especially just a restaurant, like an eating. Established. That eating establishment that's sort of more that, like. Like, instead of like. For example, would it be as effective if, like, Pacino and, you know, De Niro met at a Chipotle or like a, you know, something like that, like some other type of interesting restaurant versus a diner, which it feels. Because it just feels like there's sort of this, like, tradition to it that orients a movie better for two characters to have, like, a convo or something. I don't know if you think that it's almost like it's a physical space, but it's like a liminal space at the same time. Does that make sense?

[Johnny Knoxville]

I think it does. Communicate. Communicate a sense of safety, you know, just like heat, for example. You know, they're not gonna get into a fight in the diner, you know, or like in Mulholland Drive when he's like, I had a dream about this place. They have to leave the diner to go find the scary person behind it. You know, it does sort of communicate that this is a sacred space for these characters and that they'll be protected There.

[F]

Well, boofs kind of themselves kind of insulate you and kind of allow you to have this sort of intimacy with another person across in these sort of worlds. And then at the same time, you can also have control of that whole entire space of the diner with say the jukebox where you can pick the whole song for a quarter or whatever.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[F]

There's an autonomy in the whole thing.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Millie, what do you think Al Pacino and Robert De Niro's chipotle order would be? That's kind of how my brain does. And them picking out pinto or black beans in line.

[F]

It's just I was going to walk to the nearest Duncan to order that. Duncano.

[Johnny Knoxville]

That's right. The name's Dunk.

[F]

I think, I think, I think De Niro is a burrito bowl guy.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I 100% agree.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Extra sour cream. You know, and there's also too like, there is such a mythology or like a love maybe for the diner waitress.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

You know, like, I love the movie Alice doesn't live here anymore. And you know, just the whole like there is a culture of diner waitresses or I think of. Is it gas, food, lodging? Is that the one where like Ione sky is the waitress? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[F]

Alison Anders. Yeah. Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes. But you know, just like there's like a. Almost like a camaraderie between the waitresses and they, you know, there's like all these like side stories or almost entire movies sometimes of about like waitress culture. And it's always in a 50s diner type of place.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, it is interesting. They're almost like nuns because I feel like it's like a lot of like. Well, it's like a job that you expect that person to do it for the rest of their life or something.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And it was the outfits little and the outfits crisp white collar things happening.

[F]

It gave a bunch of men a kind of sense of, well, I can't have any other woman in my life talk to me, but I can have this waitress make conversation with me.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Now.

[F]

I can't imagine this generation of men talking to waitresses at all.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, no. I think they're looking at their phones and they're just like, I don't want to talk to anybody.

[F]

I know. And I'd be scared for the waitresses or waiters or whatever. I also think of, obviously you think of all the lovely waitresses of Twin Peaks and also. And also like obviously Tarantino. The diner is a major part from. From the jump, the Reservoir Dogs whole conversation happening about the ethics of tipping and all that, obviously in a more profane manner. And also that riffs in Pulp Fiction. It riffs on the 1950s diner aesthetic where everyone is dressed up like a 1950s person. Steve Buscemi as Buddy Holly. Nothing that far, but, yeah, I have a soft spot for the whole Route 66, mid century type of aesthetic generally. I loved Wes Anderson's Asteroid City. American Graffiti probably also will come up, even though that's technically early 1960s. I think the whole sort of boomer narrative that the 1950s were still going on up until the JFK assassination is something that I think is agreed upon. Like, again, even though it was a little looser and not as conformist as the Eisenhower years were in the early 1960s, it was still very much left over. 1950s seeping into that period.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, it is interesting. We were talking about Trump at the top, too. And so much of Make America Great Again is sort of this idealized version of the 1950s. I mean, the 1950s constantly comes up with those sort of conversations as the time that America was at its height.

[F]

If they looked at the tax rates of the 1950s, I feel like they would immediately realize how much of a. How much. How much of a. How much of a lie they're going into. It's like, oh, yeah, we used to fund things. We funded a whole space race race.

[Johnny Knoxville]

We used to have libraries.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Johnny Knoxville]

God.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, this is fantastic. I mean, honestly, I love anybody that comes to this section of the pod and kind of brings up something, you know, very specific, but then is. It's a kind of entry point into, like, I don't know, film culture, but also regular culture. And I don't know, I think it's fascinating thinking about the idea of the aesthetic itself transcending the time. And it just kind of moves on and means different things to different movies. And I don't know, it's kind of cool.

[F]

Yeah. And I definitely recommend the Girl Can't Help It. I recommend hearing John Waters talk about the Girl Can't Help it, which I think is on the Criterion disc.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Oh, amazing.

[F]

But he talks about how much he loves the colors in the movie. And it's not even like, Technicolor. It's deluxe color. That was done. And it's crazy at some points. It does look like a Cirque movie, even though obviously, again, it's made by basically a comedian who, again, was also a very dirty old man. I often talk about how his movie Susan Slept Here is a much more disturbing Christmas movie than Eyes Wide Shut. And People. People don't believe me until they watch it and then they agree with me.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, that was a TCM Christmas classic. I remember programming that a bunch.

[F]

Oh yeah. I still feel like it has to be on there. It has to be a tradition. You have to have Susan slept Here and outrage all the people who are expecting a nice cuddly movie with Debbie Reynolds.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh my God. Well, Kaden, I was wondering if maybe. I know that you've got some projects coming up that you kind of don't want to talk about, you don't want to jinx, but is there anything coming up that you want to plug or maybe you can just like plug where you're doing writing? I know you write for a Criterion channel and you have your own substack. Do you have a substack?

[F]

I don't write enough in my substack, mainly because I've been trying to start. I'm actually. I have a day job and I'm actually starting that relatively soon. So that has been kind of my focus. However, there's the baseball movie that actually came out this past year called EFIs by Carson Lund that is coming out on Blu Ray. And my essay is actually included on the booklet of that. And again, I did the audio commentary on with Willow on a movie that we didn't feature that wasn't featured in our book, but we obviously had great affinity for called Ava man, which you can buy on Blu Ray disc. And I also have the essay booklet for Scarecrow in a Garden of Cucumbers that is also going to be coming out soon. So a lot of disc work forthcoming in that case.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Well, thank you so much, Kayden. It was such a pleasure having you on the show.

[F]

Thank you for having me on.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And everybody, definitely. If you haven't checked it out, please get Corpses, Fools and the History and Future of Transness in Cinema written by Kaden and Willow Maclay. And it's an incredible book. Everybody should have it on their shelf and yeah, thanks Kayden, we appreciate it.

[F]

Thank you very much.

[Johnny Knoxville]

All right. Phenomenal. Great conversation with Kaden. Great to meet him. I'd never met him before, so that was fun. Now it's time for employees picks where we recommend a film based on the theme of our discussion. Millie, do you have a Wreck?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I do have a Wreck, but it's not a movie.

[Johnny Knoxville]

That's okay.

[Millie De Chirico]

Is that okay?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Uh huh.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay guys. Yeah, I'm gonna recommend because, you know, I was going down this road of sort of, you know, the world of Jackass and Jeff Tremaine and some of the other stuff that came on mtv. I don't know if you ever saw this series, but I mean, of course now one of the people in this series is gone on and done so many things. And I say that like my eyes rolling in the back of my head a little bit. But the og. The original series, Robin Big on mtv is fantastic. Yes, fantastic.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yes. And that was like, I would say an extension that got on the show, the network, because of Jackass. That's right.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Jeff Tremaine, well, he was a co. Creator of it, so he brought it, but it was God damn like the. The original Robin Big show where they were like in the house together and Big and Rob would just like do these like, dumb things. Like, you know, just like these. Again, kind of like. Because Rob Dyrdek is a skater, of course they would just do like dumb. They would go on like these dumb quests. I guess it would be these like, dumb side quests. And I mean, I just remember this one about. I think it was big black Christopher Boykin, who plays the kind of, you know, bestie to Rob Dyrdek, his bodyguard, right. That's how they met. Was talking about how his ass sweats so bad that he puts paper towels in his crack and calls it a. Calls it a man pawn. He's like, he's just gonna put it in that man bond. And I was like, that is too damn funny.

[Johnny Knoxville]

What. What is. What is the name of Rob's show now?

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, God. It.

[Johnny Knoxville]

It's like the only thing on mtv.

[Millie De Chirico]

Ridiculousness.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

I mean, this is why I'm kind of rolling my eyes a little bit, cuz I'm basically like, that show has been on forever and it is really much of nothing. I mean, it's basically him pulling up like tik toks and viral videos and then he has a panel of people that I don't know who I'm assuming are influencers kind of riffing on him, but it's like he's been able to make the show for like. Like 75 years, it seems like.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And there's like 8 billion episodes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Oh. It began airing on August 29th, 2011.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Insane.

[Millie De Chirico]

Wow. Dude. There's been, I'm sorry, 44 seasons of it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

That's crazy. I don't even understand what that means.

[Millie De Chirico]

44 seasons of this show. If you go on Wikipedia, it'll give you a chart, and it's basically like 44 seasons. Guess what? Some of them, there's 119 episodes in one season. I mean, come on, are we serious with this? Wow. But anyway, Robin, Big. I don't know, I think you could probably see it on YouTube or something. But it's. It's really funny. I loved it when it came on.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I can't tell you how much Jackass meant to me as a 12 year old boy. Everyone I was in school with started videotaping themselves, like jumping off their roof or like jumping down the stairs. There was so many copycat videos. And in some ways it sort of inspired me to become a filmmaker. I mean, I wasn't doing that stuff, but I think that Jackass shows the power of what you can illustrate with very simple means. You know, you do not need that. You can just. If you have an iPhone, you can make a movie, you know? And so I love Jackass. And one of the things. And I love the show Jackass. And one of the things that. What they did, they did make a TV movie. It's technically a TV movie, but it's also just an elongated episode of Jackass called Jackass Gumball 3000 Rally Special. Did you ever watch this?

[Millie De Chirico]

I never saw it.

[Johnny Knoxville]

It's incredible, basically. And it's like, it's different than the rest of the show. It's Johnny Knoxville, Steve O and Chris Pontius. It's just those three guys, okay. And they are taking a part of Gumball 3000, which is like this race across Europe. And it's like a bunch of. It's them driving across Europe partying with like all these other guys doing the Gumball 3000. And it's just great because it gets to. You get to hang out with them a little bit more than. And they're doing stupid shit, obviously, but you get to hang out with them a little bit more than these just short segments and it's a delight. And you can watch that on Paramount plus or Prime. It's out there, but okay, definitely. Check that out. It's really funny. It's like 40 minutes, I think an hour. But that's my. That's my recommendation. That's my staff pick or my employees pick.

[Millie De Chirico]

Listen, I love that we're still pulling from this universe for our recommendations, but what a fun episode. I'm really glad we got to go in hard on this. I think it's a good summer vibe too. I don't know why. Even though I guess you could pull pranks year round. Well. And I also. I also think it's funny just to cap off this episode that you and I have gone on Record several times about hating to be pranked.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, I'm anti prank.

[Millie De Chirico]

I hate pranks. Like, don't prank me. If. If you prank me, I probably will never talk to you again. And I'm not even joking.

[Johnny Knoxville]

I would never.

[Millie De Chirico]

However, we love the Jackass movies. What's up with that?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, it's something internal, something deep within.

[Millie De Chirico]

I don't know, maybe what we don't want for ourselves, we want in others. Who knows?

[Johnny Knoxville]

I'm scared to go down this rabbit hole and uncover some deep truth about myself.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know. I feel like we've analyzed ourselves too much already.

[Johnny Knoxville]

But you know, what's the funny thing, though? The. The Jackass, it's like. Like they're almost not pranks most of the time. Like, there are obviously, like, pranks where they're, like, tricking someone, but most of them are like this in between type of like, jackass thing. I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to put your finger on, you know?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Well, all I know is that if my friends got together and shaved their pubes and then put them in a box and then made it. Made someone spirit gum it to my face, I'd be so. I would never talk to those people again.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Yeah, that would be a tough one to get over, I think.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, on that note, here's the deal, folks. If you're in need of anything, and I mean anything from us, a specific recommendation. If you want film advice. If you want to talk about a director's filmography, if you got a film grape. If you got a film consensual grope. If you want to just talk about who your favorite members of Jackass are, we are at dear [e-mail] that's right. And also, if you want to leave us a voicemail, we would love it because we love hearing your voice record it on your phone, keep it under a minute, and again, email it to dearMoviesExactlyRightMedia.com that's right.

[Johnny Knoxville]

And you can follow us on our socials, earmoviesiloveyou on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterboxd handles areleobrien and Mdecherico. You can listen to Dear Movies, I Love youe on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And yeah, please rate and review the show positively, preferably.

[Millie De Chirico]

Thank you. We'd appreciate it. Let's keep the summer train rolling, shall we?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Summer fun.

[Millie De Chirico]

What's going on next week?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Next week we're talking about Jurassic world. Rebirth from 2025 and just the concept of summer blockbusters we're going to discuss as well.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Dive in.

[Millie De Chirico]

Another new movie. So if you don't want spoilers, maybe.

[Johnny Knoxville]

You know, what could you spoil watching a Jurassic park movie?

[Millie De Chirico]

So there's this dinosaur.

[Johnny Knoxville]

There's a dinosaur.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, it'll be fun. Anyway, you should listen. Even if you don't. If you haven't seen it or don't want to see, just listen. Why not?

[Johnny Knoxville]

Absolutely. 100% agree. All right, Mellie, I'm gonna go jump off. Gonna go jump out of a moving car and into a bush.

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm going to figure out what's going on with my leg and hopefully we'll get gangrene. And then I guess I'll hopefully see you next week. Week.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Sounds good.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Bye.

[Millie De Chirico]

Bye. Bye. This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie de Chericho, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Johnny Knoxville]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie De Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Johnny Knoxville]

Thank you to our executive producers Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Chirico.

[Millie De Chirico]

We love you. Goodbye.

[Casey O'Brien]

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