Mockumentaries & Waiting for Guffman (1996) featuring Arden Myrin

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You: Episode Summary – "Mockumentaries & Waiting for Guffman (1996)"

Episode Details:

• Title: Mockumentaries & Waiting for Guffman (1996)
• Release Date: April 29, 2025
• Guest: Arden Marine
• Hosts: Millie De Chirico and Casey O'Brien

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Introduction to Mockumentaries

In this episode of Dear Movies, I Love You, hosts Millie De Chirico and Casey O'Brien delve deep into the unique world of mockumentaries, using Christopher Guest's seminal work, Waiting for Guffman (1996), as a focal point. The discussion explores the evolution of the mockumentary genre, its current proliferation in television and advertising, and its transition from a narrative structure to a widely adopted comedic device.

Millie De Chirico initiates the conversation by defining mockumentaries:

“[31:12] Millie De Chirico: It's basically like a narrative structure that has become a genre over the years, especially with the influx of TV shows adopting this style.”

Casey O'Brien agrees, highlighting the influence of Christopher Guest:

“[32:58] Casey O'Brien: The Office really changed the game. It set a precedent that led to the widespread use of the mockumentary format in various media.”

The hosts critique the current state of mockumentaries, noting a decline in quality and originality:

“[33:24] Casey O'Brien: The proliferation has led to a lot of repetitive jokes and sloppiness, making it harder for mockumentaries to stand out.”

They reminisce about classic mockumentaries and their impact, citing favorites like Spinal Tap and Best in Show:

“[35:05] Millie De Chirico: Some classic mockumentaries like Spinal Tap and Best in Show set high standards that newer productions often fail to meet.”

Deep Dive into "Waiting for Guffman"

The episode takes a closer look at Waiting for Guffman, examining its narrative, characters, and enduring legacy in the mockumentary genre.

Millie praises Christopher Guest's ability to create relatable, nuanced characters:

“[47:01] Millie De Chirico: Guest excels at portraying subtle human behaviors that make the humor resonate universally.”

Casey adds that Guest's approach allows audiences to recognize archetypal personalities within the film:

“[50:49] Casey O'Brien: The characters feel instantly recognizable yet entirely original, which is a testament to Guest's genius.”

They discuss the film’s portrayal of small-town aspirations and the anticipation surrounding the character Mort Guffman:

“[44:55] Casey O'Brien: The plot centers around Corky St. Clair’s hope that Mort Guffman will attend his musical, setting up a blend of genuine aspiration and comedic tension.”

Film Diary: Recent Watches and Reflections

Millie and Casey share insights into the films they've recently watched, highlighting both classic and contemporary works that align with their passion for nuanced storytelling.

Millie shares her admiration for director Alan Rudolph:

“[11:07] Millie De Chirico: I watched three of Alan Rudolph’s films this week, including Remember My Name and Choose Me. He's incredibly underrated.”

Casey reflects on his recent viewings and upcoming content:

“[25:14] Casey O'Brien: Feels like a film gripe in a way, but these discussions help us solve the intricacies of great films.”

The hosts discuss a variety of films, from A Mighty Wind to the Minecraft Movie, analyzing their thematic depth and cultural relevance:

“[58:26] Casey O'Brien: Y2K reminded me of Puppet Master with its blend of humor and violence, making it a nostalgic watch.”

Special Guest Segment: Arden Marine on "Dirty Dancing"

The highlight of the episode is an engaging interview with guest Arden Marine, who brings her expertise on the iconic film Dirty Dancing. Arden shares behind-the-scenes anecdotes, character analyses, and personal reflections that enrich the discussion.

Arden Marine recounts her first viewing experience and the film’s emotional impact:

“[62:35] Arden Marine: Dirty Dancing was one of my mom's favorite movies. Watching it at 13, it felt so uncool, but it resonated deeply with me as I grew older.”

She delves into the chemistry between Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey, highlighting their on-screen and off-screen dynamics:

“[63:57] Arden Marine: The chemistry between Swayze and Grey is unparalleled. Their performances are both intense and delicate, making every scene memorable.”

Millie praises the film’s choreography and emotional depth:

“[65:08] Millie Dechirico: The dance sequences are not only technically impressive but also emotionally charged, elevating the narrative.”

Arden shares intriguing production facts, such as Patrick Swayze's dedication and the challenges faced during filming:

“[67:08] Arden Marine: Patrick Swayze did all his own stunts and never used a body double. His commitment was incredible, even when he injured his knee during filming.”

Together, Millie and Arden discuss the lasting legacy of Dirty Dancing and its place in cinematic history:

“[83:38] Casey O'Brien: Dirty Dancing holds up remarkably well, thanks to its timeless themes and the captivating performances of its leads.”

Recommendations: Favorite Mockumentaries

Towards the end of the episode, Millie and Casey offer their favorite mockumentary recommendations for listeners eager to explore the genre further.

Casey recommends Drop Dead Gorgeous:

“[88:51] Casey O'Brien: I'm a big fan of Drop Dead Gorgeous. It’s an over-the-top, hilarious take on beauty pageants with an impressive cast including Allison Janney and Amy Adams.”

Millie suggests the TV and film versions of 2ge+her:

“[88:51] Millie De Chirico: I highly recommend Together Two—both the MTV show and the film. It's a brilliantly executed mockumentary about a fictional boy band that’s both funny and insightful.”

Closing Thoughts

Millie and Casey wrap up the episode by expressing their enthusiasm for the topics discussed and hinting at future episodes. They emphasize the importance of thoughtful filmmaking and the enduring appeal of well-crafted mockumentaries.

Millie concludes with anticipation for the next episode:

“[96:43] Millie De Chirico: Next week, we’ll be exploring Barry Jenkins’ early work, including Medicine for Melancholy. Stay tuned!”

Casey echoes the sentiment, encouraging listeners to engage with their recommendations and upcoming content:

“[97:08] Casey O'Brien: We’re excited to continue bringing you insightful film discussions. Don’t forget to follow us on social media and rate our podcast!”

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Notable Quotes:

• “[31:12] Millie De Chirico: It's basically like a narrative structure that has become a genre over the years.”
• “[32:58] Casey O'Brien: The proliferation has led to a lot of repetitive jokes and sloppiness.”
• “[35:05] Millie De Chirico: Some classic mockumentaries like Spinal Tap and Best in Show set high standards.”
• “[62:35] Arden Marine: Dirty Dancing was one of my mom's favorite movies.”
• “[67:08] Arden Marine: Patrick Swayze did all his own stunts and never used a body double.”
• “[88:51] Casey O'Brien: I'm a big fan of Drop Dead Gorgeous.”
• “[88:51] Millie De Chirico: I highly recommend Together Two—both the MTV show and the film.”

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Conclusion: This episode of Dear Movies, I Love You offers a comprehensive exploration of mockumentaries, enriched by personal anecdotes, critical insights, and a passionate guest appearance. Whether you're a seasoned film enthusiast or new to the genre, Millie, Casey, and Arden provide valuable perspectives that celebrate the art of cinema.

Transcript

[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

Coke with all your favorite people. Hello, darlings. Pack your suitcase for a new season.

[Arden Marine]

Of the Hulu original reality series Vanderpump Villa. Let's do this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ciao.

[Arden Marine]

It's Daci.

[Casey O'Brien]

Of course.

[Millie Decherico]

Lisa brought in her favorite to be resident chaperone of the castle.

[Arden Marine]

Dassi is an icon.

[Millie Decherico]

She's my eyes and ears.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love this.

[Arden Marine]

Get ready for the luxury and drama that awaits us in Italy.

[Millie Decherico]

Cheers to all the toxic couples in the castle.

[Casey O'Brien]

Season 2 of Vanderpump Villa is now streaming on Hulu.

[Millie Decherico]

Hey, Casey, how's it going?

[Casey O'Brien]

Hi, Millie. I'm doing good. How are you?

[Millie Decherico]

I'm really good. Lots of stuff happening. The Atlanta Film Festival is happening this week. Yes. And I'm doing a couple events for it, so. And I've just.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thrilling.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, just a lot, A lot of film stuff happening. The spring is a big time for. It always has been, actually, for me for, like, film festivals because I used to do the TCM Film Festival in LA every year.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Famously, the only time we've ever seen each other in person was at the TCM Film Festival.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah. Well, I'm not going this year because I just got back from Japan and I just was like, not wanting to go on another trip because you know how it is. Although I'm sure it's great and everyone's having a blast. But the Atlanta Film Festival is happening and that's exciting because it's over the course. It's like longer. I think it's actually A couple weeks. Have you ever, like. Have you. Do you go to a lot of film festivals or.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, I feel like I should. I've been. The Minneapolis St. Paul Film Festival was, like, just this, like, past week, and I just didn't go. And I wish I had. Cause it looked, like, really cool and really fun, and I'd love to have a film play there sometime. But, no, I can't say I have been doing that a lot lately. I've been to Fantastic Fest a few times, which is the Alamo Drafthouse Film Festival.

[Millie Decherico]

Me, too.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have kind of an insane Sundance Film Festival story that maybe I'll tell on the podcast sometime.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

But. Which has, like, very little to do with the film festival and just the journey of getting there. But I haven't. I wish I. They're so exciting, film festivals, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I wish I'd gone to more.

[Millie Decherico]

The TCM festival is small. It's over the course of a weekend. But then if you go to, like, some of the bigger film festivals, like, I went, you know, I went to Toronto one year, and that's, like, again, over the course of two weeks. I think Fantastic Fest is, like, two weeks. I. For some reason, I think I like the smaller ones. They just seemed a little bit more manageable. Because if I go to.

[Casey O'Brien]

It can be overwhelming.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Because if I go to a longer film festival, I start kind of getting lonely. I don't know if that's a weird thing to say, but I'm, like, interesting. I'm just, like, always in the movies alone, and I'm just like, man, I've been here for, like, two weeks. So I'm, like, just going. Hanging out with myself all the time. Like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know. I just. I think doing something good, maybe you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Can, like, if the smaller ones, you can kind of, like, see the same people, and it feels more like, oh, we're like a group together. But, like, you know, the bigger ones, it's like a larger university. You just kind of get lost in the mob.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I think so. And then there's also, like, people, like, coming in and out of it, like, at different times. So you can't really connect. Like, you have to just, like, make sure that you're there when other people are there, which may not even happen. But that's what I loved about TCM Fest is that it was like, everybody had to be there Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. And it was great. So, anyway.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very cool. Well, we got a lot going on with this episode, too. Do you want to tell the people what we're discussing today.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're going to talk about mockumentaries.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. And I think, you know, an obvious big player in the mockumentary world is christopher guest, who, you know, is probably like, the first person most people think of when they think about mockumentaries. Fake documentaries. Right. So we're gonna talk about waiting for guffman, which is, I feel like his big breakout. Like that kind of really, like, set the table for the rest of his career in terms of making these types of movies. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally. Totally. We'll get into all of that. Very exciting. I'm also very excited because we have a wonderful guest today, the amazing ardyn marine, who is on the most recent season of the righteous gemstones, but she was also on madtv, the show insatiable. She's got a great bachelor podcast on the iheartnetwork, A fellow iheartnetwork podcast called will you accept this rose? And she's coming on to talk about dirty dancing, a fave, I would say, a beloved film.

[Millie Decherico]

You have completely understated that. You. I don't even think you know me well enough to know my history. My love. My. This. This movie changed my life to be quite well.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like there. There have been illusions. There have been illusions. I'm not totally surprised by this. So I'm excited to get into it with arden. I think that'll be a fun convo.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And if it's just her and I talking and you have to leave, that's cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

That I. I. That I'll. I'll. I would like to stay and listen if. Even if I'm not talking, if that's possible.

[Millie Decherico]

You can put the baby down for a nap. We'll. We'll just be talking about the minuscule details of this movie that we both love.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, listen. Stay tuned, everybody. You are listening to dear movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I've got to. To. Yes or no? Check the box below.

[Millie Decherico]

That's right, everybody. Welcome to dear movies. I love you. My name is Millie decherico.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm Casey o'brien, and this is a.

[Millie Decherico]

Film podcast about loving film and being obsessed with film and, you know, really just wanting to cuddle with film all night. Maybe having cuddling be the best part of the relationship.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, I don't know why this just popped into my head, but what's your favorite breakfast Meat.

[Millie Decherico]

Meat. Breakfast meat.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

I. I'm not trying to be obscure here right off the bat. But it's. This is something that I absolutely love, and I don't get to have it super often, unfortunately, unless I like, either buy it at a specialty food store. But have you ever had Filipino, like, the breakfast sausage longanisa?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I have.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, delish.

[Millie Decherico]

The best, probably the best, most favorite of the breakfast meats for me. What about you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Goes great with rice and eggs. Well, the reason I asked this is that I was eating Spam this morning. What? Speaking of Filipino, I thought this might be my favorite. My favorite breakfast meat. And so huge a huge declaration for me to make. It was previously bacon, and now it's Spam. I think it's taken it over, so.

[Millie Decherico]

But okay, let me. Okay, let me. Let me go back. So spam is not just breakfast meat, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Correct.

[Millie Decherico]

Do you only eat it as breakfast? Is. I guess maybe I generally.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would say only eat it as breakfast, yes. But I will eat it for lunch and dinner, too. But I feel like predominantly I have it with breakfast.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you or Trisha ever made, like, span musubi?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, we have. Absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

That is. That's the best, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, it's so good. Spam is delicious. And it's from Minnesota.

[Millie Decherico]

It is.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is. Austin, Minnesota.

[Millie Decherico]

I should know the history of spam, because, you know, everybody knows. As everybody knows, Filipinos and Hawaiians love Spam.

[Casey O'Brien]

They do. And I'm married to a woman of Filipino descent.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, exactly. So what, did you eat Spam before you met her?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I did.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I feel like it really came into focus when Trisha and I started dating in a big way.

[Millie Decherico]

So my favorite thing is when you. I love to make spam musubi, which is basically like. It's kind of like, you know, onigiri, which is the rice ball. Okay. Like, it's a rice ball.

[Casey O'Brien]

You have a plastic toy keychain version of Onigiri.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Remember, if you. If you listen to our. Or tuned into our Instagram live, I showed off some of the wares that I got from Japan, and one of them was I bought a bunch of fake food, and one of them is a keychain that's a onigiri or a rice ball with a little piece of seaweed wrapped around it. But my favorite part is when you make Spam. So it's basically like putting Spam on the rice ball. Right. And usually you can get molds of it, you know, and I won't tell you where. Probably get it on a giant online retailer if you really want one. I get Them. Cause I think they're cool. But basically they make the little molds for it where you just, like, form and like, the Spam slice fits perfectly in there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Perfect.

[Millie Decherico]

But then what you do is you put it on the pan and you grill it so it kind of caramelizes a little bit. Oh, my God. A little caramelized Spam slice on top of it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a wondrous meat. And I'm just tired of being embarrassed about my love for it. And so it's creeped up to number one for me on my breakfast meat chain. But we gotta get into our film diary. And this is the diary with which we write our most intimate desires and also talk about the movies we've watched most recently. And Millie, what have you been watching?

[Millie Decherico]

I watched a shit ton of movie this week.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, wow. Let's hear it.

[Millie Decherico]

I did. So I watched three movies by the director Alan Rudolph, which, if you've been following my social media, you realize I just recently did an event with him in Atlanta. He is an incredible director and completely underrated in, like. And just like. I mean, he worked most famously with Robert Altman, and he was like the ad on, like, the Long Goodbye and Nashville. He worked on California Split. I mean, he just had. When I. When we did the Q and A together here at Atlanta, he had so many Robert Altman stories. It was awesome. But he's just like that. Like, Robert Altman himself is an incredible director. And like, also. But also kind of like, I don't. I. I still think Robert Altman is underrated, even though he's kind of not underrated. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, well, I think Alan Rudolph and Robert Altman kind of make, I won't say similar movies, but they're very human movies. And they aren't big and explosive, like, laugh out loud comedies necessarily. They're just these, like, beautiful, human. I think they would be more. Be more respected if they were from, like, France or something. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like they're just so. There's just such elegant, wonderful films. And maybe those kind of movies don't, you know, grab the attention of mainstream filmgoers as much. But, yeah, just. I totally agree with you that Robert Altman, even though he's, like, so lauded, is also underrated.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and I think that's really what it is, is that it just feels like I don't understand why these directors are still kind of seen in a lot of ways as, like, indie directors. Because their movies, I feel like, are so good and not like super weird esoteric in that way. They're not like genre movies. They're basically like American films with like pretty famous actors and. But yet, I don't know, their narrative structure is maybe like, what? Not like Jurassic park or something, and that's why people don't watch them. I don't get it. I don't get it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, like, even, like, I feel like this is maybe not comparable, but someone like Noah Baumbach is making sort of these types of movies. Not they're not similar movies, but they are just more like human movies. I don't know. I can't think of a better way to describe them. But like, I think he's thought of more now than like someone like Alan Rudolph, who. His, Whose Alan Rudolph's movies were so hard to find for the longest, like, that's the time.

[Millie Decherico]

So, yeah, I think that's it. That's a huge part of it. And that's. I mean, that's something that we certainly talked about, I think. But after, after hanging out with him and his wife here in Atlanta, his wife Joyce, who was an on set photographer, still photographer. Did you realize his wife shot the COVID of the first Nightmare on Elm street film?

[Casey O'Brien]

I had no idea. That's so wild. Until you posted it. It's so crazy.

[Millie Decherico]

She also shot photography for the first Terminator movie. And she's like, she's been working, like, she's worked on so many movie sets and has shot so much on set photography. She's like a legend in her own right. And they're the best people, like, truly the best people. But I. I just had such a blast with them. And it made me realize, like, oh, my God, he's one of my favorite directors. And he's so. I feel like he's so underrated. I feel like the whole reason why he might be underrated, at least for a lot of film people, even, is because of Access. They just released Choose Me, his movie, Choose Me on Criterion Collection. But beyond that, I mean, that's like the first one that's made it. And so I watched three of his films, kind of to prep for the weekend that we spent together.

[Casey O'Brien]

Amazing. We will be doing an Alan Rudolph episode in the near, near future. So we're gonna go ham on this subject even more so in a couple episodes.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. But just for, you know, film diary purposes, for, you know, for record keeping purposes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very important.

[Millie Decherico]

This week I watched Remember my name from 1978, which I've talked about on I saw what you did. It's One of my favorite movies of all time. I watched Choose Me 1984, like I just mentioned. And then I watched Trouble in mind from 1985 starring Kris Kristofferson and who I thought for a long time was Daryl Hannah, but it isn't. It's Laurie Singer, which is embarrassing but true. And they're great.

[Casey O'Brien]

I could see how you would get those two confused.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, look at.

[Casey O'Brien]

In that they look incredibly similar.

[Millie Decherico]

She's got blonde hair in the thing. Like, she's like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, honestly. Am I wrong? Am I wrong?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, you're not wrong.

[Millie Decherico]

I also. I watched those three films. Then I watched this movie because I was watching our movie for the episode Waiting for Guffman, and it kind of rolled into another movie waiting, which I've talked about before. Party girl from 1995.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. I love Party Girl so much.

[Millie Decherico]

It's. I just realized it is such. I think it's a comfort film for me. I have to say.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's interesting. This is not really connective at all, but, like, when I first saw Choose Me and Party Girl, the streaming version of both those movies was so bad for so long. And I believe Party Girl has had a revamped version version that's out there now and then so is Choose Me. So this is fabulous. These movies are getting, like, appreciated.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And Fun City Editions did the Party Girl dvd, by the way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. Very good. But, yeah, party girl from 1995 was that Parker Posey's kind of breakout film?

[Millie Decherico]

It was, yep. It definitely was. And it's just. It's a comfort film for me. I, like, know every line. I love the era. It's the era that I grew up in. And I just.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's not too much conflict in that movie either. It's just kind of like fun.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and it was, you know, based on the. I mean, the. The infrastructure of it is a screwball comedy. And it's because the director of Party.

[Casey O'Brien]

Girl, Daisy Von Schuerle Mayer.

[Millie Decherico]

That's right. She. Her. I think her father was like, used to write screwball comedies or her grandfather did. And so she's got it in the blood. And I guess she made, like, kind of an updated version. Anyway, I love Party Girl. It was easy. Watch. And then the final movie that I saw this week, which is. Is. Is quite a topic right now. I don't know if you've heard about any of this, but I saw the Minecraft movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, really? There's a movie theater a few blocks from my house, and it's playing the Minecraft movie and the flocks of tweens that are just in these streets going to that movie. I heard it was actually better than. I heard positive things about Minecraft.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Number one, it made me realize that Jack Black is still fucking funny. And like, I will laugh at his stupid ass all the time.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's a hero.

[Millie Decherico]

He's great. Like, even him just doing his Jack Black thing is funny to me. And I don't care what property it's in. I don't care what IP it's in. It's just him.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's something about him too, that he kind of has, like, punk roots. I feel like he comes from very alternative comedy roots. So even if he's in like the most mainstream movie, like the Minecraft movie, for example, it's kind of like, oh, we got one of our own in there. It kind of feels that way a little. You know what I mean?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. And it's like everything that he does is kind of like a variation on like, Tenacious D or whatever. Or maybe it was just what I was thinking when I watched the Minecraft movie. I was like, I love it. I love Tenacious D. So I will. I will also say this before I say this. I was a huge Minecraft player. Did you know that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Whoa, Millie, you are so full of surprises.

[Millie Decherico]

You just.

[Casey O'Brien]

You really just. That's so incredible. I love this. I discover new things about you all the time.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, I'm glad that I can keep you guessing. Cause that's what keeps the relationship fresh, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

So when I was during the pandemic, when I was living, essentially living in my parents guest room for like nine months, right after I left la after my escape from la.

[Casey O'Brien]

Escape from la?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I was hanging out with my nephews and I just started kind of showing them Minecraft. And I wasn't before then. I knew what Minecraft was because actually some other friend of mine's kid told me about Minecraft a long time ago. And then I kind of forgot about it. And then I was like, oh, we should play Minecraft together. So I just like, downloaded it on my computer. And then we got completely obsessed. And when I tell you obsessed, it's that I was literally on my own, by the way. Not without. I was without children. I don't have children. And I was not even around my nephews when this was happening. But I was watching other people, grown men, play Minecraft, like on YouTube. Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

The pandemic was a. A dark time for us all, I think.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I got Into Animal Crossing and Minecraft during the. That was my.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love it.

[Millie Decherico]

My big video gamer days.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, you know, I have never. I. For something. I've never been able to get into video games and I've tried. I just, it's just. It's not there for me. But I'm excited. I love that you have a history with this. You had a, you know, a language with which to go into the Minecraft movie with.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, I was like. When I watched the. I was like my. I went with my friend Vanessa and her child who is probably like six, five or six, and I don't think he's played Minecraft yet. And like when the Enderman. Come on, I was like screaming, oh my God, it's Enderman. And he was like, what? And I'm like. I was like, well, come on, kid, you got to get in. You got to get in and know all this stuff.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh my God. But so funny.

[Millie Decherico]

The one thing that I want to say, and I don't want to make this film diary super long, but I am. So if. I don't know if you've been on TikTok or have you seen the screenings of Minecraft movie?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I haven't.

[Millie Decherico]

People are going insane. Like, you've not seen the trashed movie theaters like after the Minecraft movies? Like, people are throwing food. There's. There's one TikTok that I saw where somebody brought a live chicken to this screening.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, shit.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, it's unprecedented. I feel like it's unprecedented. Here's the thing. I'm gonna say this right now because a, I had to be knowing what I know. I was like, I'll be God damned if I go to my local multiplex, the one that I've always had problems in. I was like, people are gonna get.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, some sort of live poultry is gonna show up in that theater.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah. I was like, there's no fucking way I'm going to that one. So we went to another one in the chain, let's just say that. But it was in a much like nicer location. It's in like a nicer neighborhood. There's like rich people around. It's in a rich people's mall.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So I was like, okay, so they're not going to, you know, kill animals or what? I don't know. They're not killing animals, but they're not, you know, it's not going to be as chaotic. And it wasn't as chaotic, thank God. Because I was like, I don't Want any food or drinks thrown at me? I don't want any of it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Firecrackers.

[Millie Decherico]

No firecrackers. But I will say that it is like, I think it's user engineered. I think that all these people are going to the screenings now knowing that they got to create a little chaos because there were people like, filming the entire thing screaming. I mean, it's become the room. It's basically the room.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. It kind of reminds me of like when people started wearing pink to Barbie a couple years ago. And then it was like, everybody. It's like, now we got to. Now it's. It's like a snowball effect here. It sounds like.

[Millie Decherico]

And listen, I. I've never been a fan of participatory movie shit like that. Like, it's one thing if something gets accidentally rowdy, but it is a whole other thing when it's like people come to the theater knowing that they're going to, like, act up and do their improv routines and film things. I was so annoyed. I was so annoyed because it was just basically like all these, like, I don't know, people in their 20s that were like, you know, yeah, this is like Rocky Horror. And I'm just like, fuck you, dude. Like, there's like little kids here, like, yeah, like, chill the fuck out, okay? Like, it's 1:00pm on a Sunday, by the way. You don't need to create your fucking jovial disturbances right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, totally.

[Millie Decherico]

Go to the midnight show, assholes. I was so annoyed. And it made me realize, like, man, I can't stand shit like this. I'm just. I just can't. I can't do it. Sorry.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hear you. I hear. I, like, it's a sacred space. And I feel like when you start going to Alamo drafthouses where there's like a protocol for, like, if someone's talking, you can tattle on them and have them shipped out of the movie theater. It's hard to go back to the regular movie theaters after that without that security blanket.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, it's like, at least the draft houses, rowdy screenings, where they're telling you this is a rowdy screening. You can opt in if you want to, because I saw a rowdy screening of Cats.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did too. I saw. I've been to. I went to two rowdy screenings of Cats, right?

[Millie Decherico]

But it's like you have the expectation going in of, you know, what's going on. And then they have other screenings of the movie that are not rowdy. And you can just go and be silent and A law abiding movie citizen. Yeah, I just, I. I can't. I can't get behind it. Have fun, I guess. But not for me. I'm not coming to this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Feels like a film gripe in a way.

[Millie Decherico]

Probably is a film anyway that's naturally.

[Casey O'Brien]

Evolved into a film gripe which is, you know, that's not. I was inspired on this show.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Anyway, that's my long winded film diary. Sorry.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love it. I love it. No, I have kind of uninteresting film diary. I have two movies here. Okay. I watched Wong Car Wise 2046. I'd never seen it come out in 2004.

[Millie Decherico]

What'd you think?

[Casey O'Brien]

I watched this because I bought the box set with money that you and Danielle gave me for like my birthday on the Criterion Collection and I bought the. And I never watched 2046 and then my dang Blu Ray disc didn't work. Oh, that specific one.

[Millie Decherico]

I've heard that actually with some of the Wong Car Y box sets.

[Casey O'Brien]

Really?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, I need to report this.

[Millie Decherico]

I think when they first came out they were kind of interesting, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting. Wonky. One car wonky. Yeah. I. So. But I got to watch it and it was amazing. And I'm such a dumbass. I was like, wow, this character is very similar to the one in the Mood for Love. And then it was like, this is a sequel to in the Mood for Love. And I was like, I'm so stupid. I didn't know that. And I was like, oh, this doesn't all take place in the future. I really thought this all took place in the future.

[Millie Decherico]

But was it 2046? Gave it away, huh?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So anyways, obviously beautiful film. And then I watched Kyle Mooney's move directorial debut, I believe Y2K. It was an A24 film that came out like last year, I remember. And it's came out. Yeah, came out in 2024. It's about when Y2K and all the robots start attacking people. And it's really funny. It kind of reminded me of it. Is it Puppet Master with the little creatures that like come after it kind of has like that vibe or like a ghoulies vibe with like little. But they're robots, you know, like little. And it's incredibly violent. It's so insanely violent in a fun way. And it's kind of nostalgic for that time, you know, I was a teen around then and it was fun to revisit the Limp Bizkits and the AOL Instant Messengers and what have you.

[Millie Decherico]

So were you nervous about Y2K? Get real.

[Casey O'Brien]

My mom had some. We had some non perishable food items and water prepared in case something happened. But I didn't really think about it too much. I wasn't too worried. Oh yeah, I think my mom was mildly worried.

[Millie Decherico]

You didn't take out all your cash and put in a mattress?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I didn't take out my $14 and put it somewhere so those times. But yeah. So that is my film diary and we can close gently close the book on that one.

[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

All right, everybody, we are back for our main discussion topic today, which is mockumentaries and waiting for Guffman. Millie, I think, did you come up with the idea for this episode?

[Millie Decherico]

I don't remember.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like. I don't know. But what's your opinion about mockumentaries? And why is it such a fertile ground to discuss?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, it's a fertile ground because obviously it's a kind of. I mean, it's basically like a genre, but it's really more of like a narrative structure, right? Yeah. So it's like, you know, essentially it's become a genre, I think, at this point. Cause there's been so many. Especially now when you add all of the TV that we experience that is in this style. Which we'll get to, I'm sure, in a second. But I have to say, I feel like over the years, I think entertainment has sort of leaned on this style a little bit more generally, I feel like advertising has leaned on this style. Like, I feel like every commercial is a fake documentary.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now, that's interesting. I hadn't even thought about ads, but you're so right.

[Millie Decherico]

And I think I know what it is. I won't say it yet. Cause again, we'll get to it, I'm sure. But I feel like now that I've seen kind of like a full trajectory of what this whatever convention, narrative, convention, slash genre is, I feel like there are certainly bad ones and there's good ones. Like, I feel like now to get it right, to make it really funny and interesting, because it has to be interesting because you have to basically. You have to basically be sad. It has to be satire. Right. And whatever you're satirizing has to be interesting enough or you have to get the joke enough. I guess that's maybe what it is, right? You have to make the right references. You have to make the right jokes in order for it to, like, really hit. And I feel like that's gotten real sloppy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh, absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

And so one. Because of that, I go back and I see some of these more classic ones, and I'm like, oh, yeah, these are fucking Great. They're not all great. They're not all funny. But some of them are like, really, really good. And I feel like it depends on who's doing it. I just feel like it's now become. It's not just like this. Oh, everything is gonna be funny. I'm very particular about mockumentaries now, if you know what I mean.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is interesting. It has totally taken over the sitcom space on television. Like even once. It's so widespread. There are ones, I'm like, oh, I forgot that that's technically a mockumentary. You know, it's like, it's almost become the go to. It's like as common as like a three camera sitcom type of thing, like Abbott Elementary. That's a mockumentary. You know, there's a. There's a hospital one that just came out. St. Denis Medical just came out like this year, and that's like a mockumentary. And I do think the sloppiness comes from a lot of the same type of joke. You know, I think the Jim Halpert from the Office joke of him kind of looking at the camera like. I don't know, like that joke is done over and over and over again in these mockumentaries where it's gotten kind of sloppy, you know.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, that's. I think. I think you've just burst the bubble of what I wanted to talk about, which is the Office. I feel like the Office is for me, the thing that changed it. I think it. That's the Office is what made the proliferation happen in everything else in TV and film and in advertising especially. And I'm just like. I feel like that's when it started getting bad. Like really bad. Not to say that there weren't bad mockumentaries before, but like now it's like everything's like this. And the problem is, is when you go back and you watch something that's actually genius, like Waiting for Guffman or like, I mean, any of these mockumentaries. I just want to list a couple of my favorites, if you don't want. If you don't mind.

[Casey O'Brien]

So don't mind at all.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I have to say this. I won't say it's necessarily a fave, but it was for me, like one of the very first that I'd ever seen, which is David Holzman's diary from 1967. To me, that was one of the very first kind of. I don't know, like. I don't know if you call it like meta cinema. Or whatever. But it was basically like kind of a fake documentary, kind of a slog. I watched it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's kind of boring.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, kind of boring. But I will. I just have to say it because it's. It's very influential. But, you know, some of my favorites are. I mean, obviously you've got this Spinal Tap, you know, the whole. I guess the whole Christopher Guest filmography, really. I'm just saying all that generally because I know we're going to talk about it more. The movie Smile, which got remade into Drop Dead Gorgeous. The Michael Richie movie Smile. Fantastic.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have not seen the. I've seen Drop Dead Gorgeous, obviously, but.

[Millie Decherico]

You gotta see Smile. It's amazing. One of my favorites. I also love the whole. I kind of. I don't know why I categorized these together, but the Robert Altman, gary Trudeau series, Tanner 88, which was Michael Murphy playing Tanner, basically. And then like the Bob and Bob Roberts, which was directed by Tim Robbins. I don't know if those came out around the same time, but they're both basically like political mockumentaries. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I love Albert Brooks's Real Life. That's a great.

[Casey O'Brien]

I haven't seen that.

[Millie Decherico]

That's a great one.

[Casey O'Brien]

That just came out in Criterion, I think.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Or re.

[Casey O'Brien]

Released on Criterion.

[Millie Decherico]

Very easy to watch. And then, I gotta be honest, my favorites. So there's actually two that I love that I grew up with. There was Rusty Cundiff's Fear of a Black Cat, which I think came out in 1994 or 1993. And then there was, of course, CB4 with Chris Rock. And they were both like, mockumentaries about gangsta rap, like nwa. But it was very, like, referential to, like, the whole scene. I thought they were fucking hilarious when I saw those. Like, to this day, I still quote, like, straight out of Low Cash, A Crazy named Gusto from CB4. I mean, it's like, I loved those. Those fake kind of band documentaries.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Did you ever see Pop Star Never Stop? Never Stopping?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Are you talking about the Lonely Island Guys? Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. I thought that was a very. I. I love that. That was like a very funny, pseudo mockumentary.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and that's the thing, is that those guys do it really well, like, because they did this. What is it? The one about the tennis player?

[Casey O'Brien]

Seven Days in Hell.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, I. I gotta say. So the Lonely island guys do it really well. And then I think, personally, that documentary Now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Love Documentary now.

[Millie Decherico]

So good. So. And that's actually even more meta if you think about it. Because it's basically like redoing, like, doing fake homages to documentaries.

[Casey O'Brien]

The quality of that show is so high that I have seen the mockumentary version on that and then been like, oh, I should watch the real version because this seems interesting. Like, that's how good they are, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

So, like, Bill Hader, like, doing the fake Gray Gardens.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Incredible.

[Millie Decherico]

He's like a national treasure in that. In that alone. In just him being that character of the little Edie character. But fake national treasure, as far as I'm concerned. So. Well, and, like. Okay, so remind me of the timing on this, because I'm actually not sure. So I feel like, like. Like right before the Office was Arrested Development.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Which I loved Arrested Development. And I felt like, like the Office. And I'm talking about the US Office, because as we know, the UK Office and the. And the US Office are two completely different juggernauts. Maybe one's a juggernaut and the other one isn't as much the cool one. Maybe. I'm. I'm just talking shit about the Office. Sorry. I'm gonna get a lot of hate mail. Because every office.

[Casey O'Brien]

So much, so many. I have heard so many people complain about Tinder and Bumble and dating websites that so many people have the Office as their favorite show or, like, quotes of the Office. It is. It has become this sort of signal of blandness, you know, and so I don't think you're out of. You're out of school talking shit about the American Office.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and it's like, there's so many. Like, there's just.

[Arden Marine]

So.

[Millie Decherico]

I personally, I don't know why I can't understand how it became so popular. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

I liked it when it came out, but I did stop watching it.

[Millie Decherico]

But to the point where you can go to, like, the drugstore and get, like, Office pair. Like, you can go and get, like, a mug that has a Office quote on it at, like, Walgreens. Like, it's not even. Like, you don't even need to go to Spencer's Gifts. You have to. You could just go down to CVS and get some thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is sort of like our national show.

[Arden Marine]

I.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. And, like, I've. Because I work in entertainment and digital entertainment and tv. Like, the. Everyone makes. Everyone talks about the Office being like, the show that if you have it on your streaming channel, like, you'll be successful because just. People just watch it constantly. And there's like. No, it's like, foolproof money making syndicated shit. Like, they're just like, oh, everyone's gonna love the Office and watch every episode all the time. They're not even gonna think about it. And it's just fascinating to me that that show became as popular as it did because there's just other people kind of doing these things that I like. I said I think that I like better. So even around the same time period. I mean, I loved Arrested Development. You know Chris Lilly, He's Australian.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I love him.

[Millie Decherico]

Love him too. Those shows are so fucking funny to me. Like anything that he does, you know, you have to like look it up. A lot of them are on, on Max. HBO Max. Like Summer Heights High I think is on Max. And yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I mean he, he is a bit controversial because he has done like black and brown face before in some of his stuff. So like, and he hasn't really apologized for that stuff. But his like Summer Heights High Jamie private skill Gail stuff is like so funny. And he's like. And that is sort of, yeah, like fake doc mockumentary type stuff.

[Millie Decherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie Decherico]

No purchase necessary vgw group void. We're prohibited by law 21 plus terms and conditions apply. There's other things that like other films if we're going to get away from tv. Like there's other Monconey films that were big like, that I didn't see, which was the one, the Joaquin Phoenix one, I'm Still Here, that came out. Talk about problematic. I mean, that was like a whole other thing, right? There was like drama with the shoot and then there was also just his weirdness. Like nobody could understand if he was actually being legit or if this was real.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was kind of like. It was kind of hard to know if it was a joke or not. And like that was sort of an enjoyable experience, I think, for everybody.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I never. I never saw it, but I remember people talking about that when it came out. But there's just like so much, so many in movies now, I think. Again, like, I want to say the style of humor is now even in like Marvel movies. It's like the humor of a mockumentary. The device, the comedic device is now everywhere, in everything. It's in Marvel, it's in, you know, regular non mockumentary stuff. It's just crazy how it became, I guess, is my point. I don't know. I mean, like I said, here's the thing we're talking about. Technically. Technically, this episode is about Waiting for Guffman, right? Which is the Christopher Guest mockumentary, came out in 1996. Do you want to give a synopsis of it?

[Casey O'Brien]

I will give a quick synopsis. This is a mockumentary, obviously. Film takes place in the small city of Blaine, Missouri. They are celebrating the town's sesquicentennial, aka the 150th anniversary of the city, the founding of the city. A huge part of this celebration is centered around an original musical written, directed and eventually starring Corky St. Clair, played by Christopher Guest. He's an aspiring theater director who has come back to Blaine, I guess. Did he grow up there or did he just like end up in Blaine?

[Millie Decherico]

I think he was like originally from there, went to try to big city to try to make it and then ended up back there or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he wrote an original musical called Red, White and Blaine, which is a history of the small town. He cobbles together a small cast of non professional actors and this is all kind of in the hopes because he wrote to this Broadway producer named Mort Guffman and he says he's gonna come to the show to see if he'll put this musical on Broadway. And so it's all leading to this. And will Guffman come to the show and be so moved that he wants to bring the play to Broadway? Well, we'll see.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, so here's the thing. I rewatched this again, obviously, for the podcast, and I don't know about you. I'm a huge fan of Christopher Guest, I think, as a person and as a filmmaker, because as a person, he's kind of, like, weirdly mysterious. I don't know if you think that. Yes, he is. He's like.

[Casey O'Brien]

He seems, like, really cool and, like, aloof. And it's like, you know him, and he was, like, on SNL for a little bit, and he's, like, connected to all these comedic people, but it's like he only kind of like. He's like an inactive volcano. He only comes out, you know, once in a while.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, he's married to Jamie Lee Curtis.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And.

[Arden Marine]

He.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, this is gonna. I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Terence Malik of the comedy world.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. Follow me, if you will, down this road.

[Casey O'Brien]

I always will.

[Millie Decherico]

He seems like the type of guy that you. You want him to like you so bad because he's so cool and elusive, and he's just, like, really relaxed in himself. Like, he's just like, I do what I do and take it or leave it. I don't come around. I don't do interviews. I don't fucking. I don't got any smoke. I just show up, do my thing, and then I nail it every time. And you're always like, God, I wanna, like, know him. And I want him to, like me to think I'm cool. Cause he's so effortlessly cool, I think, as.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And it seems like he doesn't need anyone's approval. He's like, okay, I'm doing this.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then.

[Millie Decherico]

And he's created this, like, little, you know, gang of people that he works with all the time. And you're like, God, I wish I could be in that gang. They seem like they're having fun. They're so smart.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's so interesting. I wouldn't say Christopher Guest, you know, he didn't invent the medium or the format of the mockumentary, but I do think he created what it is today.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Or, like, what it. I feel like he solidified it, you know, because he is responsible for Spinal Tap. This is Spinal Tap, which came out in 1985. He wrote that. He didn't direct it, but he wrote that and is in it. And then he directed these subsequent mockumentaries, which include Waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, and A Mighty Wind. And. Yeah, he just. And it's like he hasn't made a movie since 2006.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And he doesn't. You know, he must just not need to.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and it's like, I think this is my. I might be reestablishing. The point that I made when we first started this conversation is I feel like in order to make a good mockumentary, you have to be really, really smart about human behavior and human isms. Right? Like, you have to be very observant in order to. To be able to get the references right. Like, the reason why Best in Show is so goddamn funny is because they've created these archetypes of these people that would show up to a dog show. Right? And maybe you don't go to dog shows and you don't know who the fuck these people are, but the minute you sit in front of this movie, you're like, oh, I know these people. Like, these are the types of people who would come to a dog show. Like, there's the, like, rich woman and her, like, you know, potentially lesbian partner, you know, like, they're having this, like, crazy interaction, and you never know where it's gonna go. But then you've got the, like, mobile home couple, you know, who are all. It's always Catherine O'Hara and someone. She's always, like, playing the wife, the crazy wife of this, like, maniac guy or whatever, you know, and then you've got, you know, obviously the Parker Posey character and her husband who are these, like, Michael Hitchcock. Yeah. Totally insane, like, type A personality. New York people with their, like, bespoke dog, you know, it's like, you don't even have to, like, be in the world of the dog show to know that these people exist. And the fact that it's like, so you're able to really, like, pinpoint, like, that's what makes Christopher Guest great, is that he gets the very subtle behaviors and mannerisms of people that you're just like. You automatically know the joke. And I just feel like he is the best at it. Like, he is really, really good at it. Where some of these others that are out here in these streets, these mockumentary streets. Not as good. Not as good.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think you tapped into something where it's like they're instantly recognizable, but also we've never seen them in a movie before.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, They've never. They're completely original. But, like, I know that person instantaneously.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, like, with. Waiting for Guffman, Corky St. Clair, who is played by, you know, Christopher Guest. Are.

[Casey O'Brien]

There are so many people who I know in my life. Well, I shouldn't say so many, but there are people in my life where I was like, that's so and so. Oh, I. I know this man. I know this man.

[Millie Decherico]

Do you think I not know a fucking older gay guy? I mean, I'm like, come on. We know the. This guy. We know the guy in the Judy Tuda shirt who's like, you know, bas.

[Casey O'Brien]

I.

[Millie Decherico]

When I. That.

[Casey O'Brien]

When I rewatched it and I saw the show, I was like, oh, my God. I was like, this. This is operating on levels I can't even under. I couldn't even understand before.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. He's, like, trying to put on a big show. He creates the hometown Hollywood memorabilia museum with his Remains of the Day lunchboxes. And, like, he's like, you know, this person like this. In Georgia, in Atlanta, that person owns an antique, takes booth, and is like, you know, somebody that, like, goes to the Colonnade with his friends every Sunday night for supper. Like, oh, But.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's also a guy who is prominent in the community, and there are illusions to a wife or, you know, there's still a closeted sense of, like, yes, not out, but, like, very prominent in the community. Yeah, that's sort of a, like, non. I feel like you find that not in the coastal elite places in this country.

[Millie Decherico]

That's what it really is. And that's the thing, is that his characters are all these people. They all have, like, nuances. I mean, let's get serious. Jennifer Coolidge really wouldn't be who she is, I think, without her work in some of these movies, like, 100%, she.

[Casey O'Brien]

Would just be Stifler's mom.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. Like, the fact that she was in Best in show playing that character that she's always like, she. She kind of has this. You know, it's like her White Lotus character, essentially. Yeah. That, to me, is like, she wouldn't exist. Like, to me, I feel like she's the best in these movies because she's playing a type of person and all these people are playing a type. And I feel like you don't get there unless you really understand and know people. And, like, it's a really hard balance. And I feel like that's why there's so many bad ones, because people are doing it. Like, I look at stuff on TV all the time. I mean, you don't even know. So many shows we haven't even talked about, like, Modern Family. I forgot that's a mockumentary.

[Casey O'Brien]

Modern Family, you know? Yes, I completely forget that. That's like a mockumentary.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. You know, because everyone's playing real fast and loose with the four.

[Casey O'Brien]

They really are. Wait, can I just. Can I give some love to. It's very fun to play a character like Corky Sinclair that's big and outrageous.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I feel like Fred Willard King. King. I just feel like the type of care. He. He is so locked in to this specific type of guy that you do know that is so original and kind of like, it's. I. It's like traditional male, you know, because you need. You can't have all. He's, like, much more of a, like, normal guy in a way, but it's like a heightened normal guy. I don't know. I think what the work he does. I think he's brilliant, and I think he's so good in this movie as, like, the travel agent who is, like, arrogant and, like, kind of cocky and probably thinks of himself, like, as like, a movie star type, you know? And, like, I don't know. He's just. Does he Rip King, you know? Rip King. He was just incredible.

[Millie Decherico]

If you do not drop in the hey, what happened? Line from A Mighty Wind here, I'm gonna scream. I will have you fired if you don't do that. Hey, what happened? It's so. He's so funny because again, he's like. Like you said, he's really, really subtle. I think Eugene Levy is the same way in a different way, but he is also very subtly like a character. Like, it's not over the top unless he has to be. He can be over the top, Fred. No, but they're, like, horrible.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, they both ride this line. They're not really like, in the world that they exist in, no one would describe them as a character. You know what I mean? Like. Whereas, like, a quirky St. Clair, it's like in the world of that movie, he is outrageous in that world also. But these are like two normal men. But I don't know. It's.

[Millie Decherico]

They.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're both brilliant. And it. Doesn't it make you kind of like. Doesn't it kind of, like, tug at your heartstrings that, like, Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara are, like, still working together? I mean, I. I don't. I have, like, sort of mixed emotions about Schitt's Creek. But it, like, warms my heart that they, like, are still working so much and still working together all these years later, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I think so, too. I mean, the only thing I will say about that is that I fucking wish that. I fucking wish that John Michael Higgins and Michael McKean from Best in Show. I wish that they had a spin off. Oh, my God, those, like, two gay guys with, like, how many kimonos are you gonna pack? Like, I. That needed to be a fully. Like, that should have been Modern Family. What the fuck? That should have went on for, like, 10 season. Just those two characters being together.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're gonna be there for 36 hours.

[Millie Decherico]

I swear. Like, I. I feel like that's the biggest joy of the Christopher Guest universe of these actors. Like, everybody loves these people. This. This. I mean, it's kind of like. I mean, I kind of liken it to, like, a John Waters Dreamlanders type of scenario.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, where it's just like a g. Like, super funny, smart people who just are in the same movies. They're all. They're always nailing it, and then they continue to work even outside of him, which is what happened with Eugene Levy and Catherine O'Hara, so. And that goes back to SCTV. I mean, it goes even so much further back. But it's like, I don't know. You talk about creative collaborators and how you wanted your, like, little gang. This is like the ultimate of that. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Even. Even characters. Actors who, like, play smaller roles in these movies, like Bob Balaban or like, Don Lake, the actor. Don Lake, who plays the town historian in this. He's the one that's like. Well, that's. That's when we had the. The stool. Boom. You know that guy. Yeah. But he, like, they all pop up in the Christopher Guest movies, but just, you know, like, they might not be the. But it's like they just create this world.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

In all these movies. That just is so. God, it's so funny.

[Millie Decherico]

It's really great. And I'm so glad that I got to watch Waiting for Guffman again. I mean, like, honestly, I come back around on these movies often because they're always like, once in a while, I'll just get on a tear of them again. Like, I really, really want to watch A Mighty Wind again. Speaking of the.

[Casey O'Brien]

A Mighty Wind is great.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it's great. It's actually. I remember, like, getting emotional.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is emo. I would say it is the most emotional.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Of his movies.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I got really emotional. At the end. I mean, I won't give it away.

[Casey O'Brien]

But did you ever see. So Christopher Guest made these mockumentaries, and then he made an actual just straight narrative movie called for your consideration. Did you ever see that movie from 2006?

[Millie Decherico]

No, I don't think I ever saw.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is a little disappointing.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Is that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think these mockumentaries are just like. Like you always say, bpm. It's going, you know, like beats per minute. It's like the best comedies out there. And I just feel like, for your consideration, doesn't quite have that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I didn't see. I haven't really seen any of the, like, newer stuff. Like, I know he did this thing called Mascots, which is on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's the last thing he's done.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And they redo the Spinal Tap thing. It feels like a little bit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, that's right. There's a new Spinal Tap coming out next year, which I'm like, that'll be interesting.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I'm a little scared. A little scared.

[Casey O'Brien]

Those men are old.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, they're old, but they're. You know, I just feel like they're the fans. It's always the fans. Be careful. Be careful out there with those fans.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Millie, was there anything else you wanted to cover before we move on from our mockumentary conversation?

[Millie Decherico]

No, but I'm glad we did this topic because I felt like. I think I initially had just been like, let's just do it. And then it became a much more interesting conversation. I think I thought it was gonna be like, I think we got down. We actually solved the problem of comedy, which I really thought we solved it.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're just solving so many problems.

[Millie Decherico]

I think it's that we don't want any more. Can we not have any more of this style? We can have one once in a while, but we don't need every show to be a mock.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think we need to retire the television. The mockumentary television shows.

[Millie Decherico]

Agreed.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think if you're going to put in the effort to make a feature film, go ahead. You know, I kind of liken mockumentaries to found footage movies.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Because those got really out of control, too. Like, found footage horrors. But I still like the format. I. I like. I. I don't think. I. I think there's good things you can do with it, but just, you know, don't get sloppy.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is what I'm. All right, everybody, we're back with another installment of our segment. My area of expertise. And boy, howdy, do we have an expert on the show today. You may have seen her on MADtv. Insatiable. You can hear her on fellow Iheart podcast. Will you accept this rose? She's the author of the memoir Little Miss Little Compton.

[Arden Marine]

Yep.

[Casey O'Brien]

And you can see her on the most recent season of the Righteous. Jen Stones as Jana Millsap. They need to be nicer to Jan, I think.

[Arden Marine]

I know. I agree with you. I mean, she's so sweet and Corey just hates her so much. No matter what, she's trying so hard. She tries. It's like being mean to a bunny. Like, she's so sweet and she tries so hard. I like that. She just takes swings and makes jokes in front of the gemstones.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's trying. She's trying and swinging this. Yeah, they need to be nicer to her. But we have the wonderful Arden Irene. Thank you so much for being here, Arden.

[Arden Marine]

Thanks for having me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. It's a true honor. A true honor.

[Arden Marine]

Honor is on mine, honey.

[Casey O'Brien]

So like we said at the top, you're an expert.

[Arden Marine]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

The area of expertise that you are an expert in is Dirty Dancing.

[Arden Marine]

Yeah. You know, as you were saying as you were talking earlier, the other area I could have picked would be Steve Martin movies, but. Interesting. But this is. It's Dirty Dance. Dirty Dancing. I am.

[Millie Decherico]

You went with the right choice.

[Arden Marine]

I am an expert in Dirty Dancing. I love Dirty Dancing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you remember seeing it for the first time?

[Arden Marine]

Oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

What was that emotional experience?

[Arden Marine]

Here's the thing. It was one of my mom's favorite movies. She loved it. And, you know, you want to go in. I feel like I was maybe, like, 13 and you want to go in, like, too cool for school of, like, this is gonna be, like, so, like, okay. Dirty. Like, it just. Everything about it felt, like, not cool. When you're 13. And I gotta tell you, I just rewatched it last night because I'm a good little pupil. Everything from the opening sounds like never has be. My baby sounded hotter.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God.

[Arden Marine]

I mean, I wanted to say it. I felt I really related. I was a late bloomer. And the fact that baby gets the guy and not the older sister, Incredible storyline. And we all know that Patrick Swayze is hot, but re watching. Jennifer Grey is the hottest person alive.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God. I couldn't agree more. Her body is incredible. Her body.

[Arden Marine]

And looking at her when she's, like, kind of like starting to come into her, like, like sexuality. And when I remember when she runs down the steps in that little, like, bodysuit and jean shorts, you could wear that today. Like, I'm watching Summer House right now. One of the characters is wearing that. Not many people can pull that off. No one is hotter.

[Casey O'Brien]

Her.

[Arden Marine]

Her in the lake, doing the lifts. She's just as hot as Patrick Swayze. It was the hottest movie. And I love the fact that, in theory, for Hollywood version of, like, the sort of quirky duckling, like, they called her, like, you could be pretty. So we'll call her the Ugly Duckling, even though she's a bit. The ugly duckling. Got just sex on feet. And they had, like, a charming connection. I really was like, I want to be baby. I want to be baby. I want to go to Kellerman's. I want to take. I want to go take cha cha lessons. I want to crawl around on the ground and talk about spaghetti arms. I want to go to adult camp with my family.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Arden Marine]

I love this movie. It holds up. I'm gonna say maybe my favorite movie of all time.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, it's. I mean, we talked about this briefly before we did the microphone, but, like, we were like, it's gotta be top three. I mean, I have. The amount of times they've seen this movie.

[Arden Marine]

Me too.

[Millie Decherico]

Is insane. I watched it as part. So, you know, a lot of people maybe don't know this, or maybe they don't even really think about it, but this movie takes place at, like, a Jewish camp, right? Yes.

[Arden Marine]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

So it played as part of the Jewish Film Festival in Atlanta.

[Arden Marine]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And I. And of course, when I. When I. When they played it, I was like, oh, of course. Because that's the whole conceit of the movie is that it's like Borschpel. Like. Yes.

[Arden Marine]

You know, I didn't add that up as a child.

[Millie Decherico]

Me neither. I have no idea.

[Arden Marine]

And then, like, even reading about it, it's like, he's not Jewish. She's Jewish. Like, just the whole. I'm like, ah, I'm. I. I want to convert, and I want to go to Kellerman with my Jewish family. Like, get me out of New England. Send me an abortion. Like, I' here for it, honey.

[Casey O'Brien]

That camp is so fascinating. I'm like, do they have things like this?

[Arden Marine]

They used to. They used to. It was like a time and place. It was like as they were saying the era opening lines. It was before Kennedy was shot. It was before the Beatles had invaded. It was like coming out of the 50s, going into the 60s, before it got starting to get a little more dangerous, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's the. I Feel like the first time. I love. Like, the sex of this movie is fabulous. Like, when you see Patrick Swayze for the first time and he's like dancing with this woman and is, like throwing her around. I mean, it's so hot. It's like. It is like face meltingly hot. It's insane.

[Arden Marine]

Can I just say, I did a lot of research for this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Thank you.

[Arden Marine]

Because I already knew this already. So, like, honestly, this dog. I already knew this. It was just like I. Again. And I wanted to come right. For your listeners.

[Millie Decherico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you. Appreciate that.

[Arden Marine]

So Billy Zane allegedly was initially cast as Johnny Castle.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting.

[Arden Marine]

But here comes Patrick Swayze, who was a trained dancer. And he went through. I don't know. I'm gonna. I'm gonna lie about. It's like the Joffrey Ballet or something. He went to, like the. He was like, actually trained dancer, but he had an injury. And he said on his resume, can't dance. Like, can dance, but not allowed to. And so he was, like, concerned. This king did all of his own stunts. There was never a body double. And he fell off the log when they were doing the. Like, rehurt his knee and kept going. Now, Sarah Jessica Parker also auditioned. Ironically, Jennifer Grey was dating Matthew Broderick at the time of filming this. So he was. And he came in. Apparently he's in the audience when they film the talent show. He's there in the audience.

[Millie Decherico]

Whoa. I didn't know that. That's amazing.

[Arden Marine]

I have been. I was dating somebody who has parents lived in North Carolina. So I went to. One of the sets was in near Bat Cave, North Carolina. And I went. A lot of it's burned down or gone. And then there was. The other one was in Virginia. Now, they filmed all this in the fall and it was really cold and they had to spray paint a lot. They were turning colors. They had to spray paint the leaves green. This to keep it. The lake scene, the lift scene, they were freezing. It was like, freezing. Yeah, I heard that. Like, freezing. Patrick Swayze and Jennifer Grey had electric chemistry in the audition. They'd done a movie together and didn't like each other before. Yes. But they had this great screen test. Then they got there and they fucking hated each other. They hated each other. He was very sort of by the book. I mean, you don't become that good of a dancer and have a body like that if you're not a little regimented.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Arden Marine]

Apparently, the scene where he's dragging his hand down and she's giggling, that was not like in like. Like, that was them rehearsing. And she's ticklish. And his look of annoyance.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, of course.

[Arden Marine]

That was Jennifer Grey giggling. That was him being pissed. They didn't even remember they did that. And when they were going through the dance rehearsal, they were just watching dance rehearsals. That wasn't, like, filming. And they found that footage and nobody wrote. Like, that wasn't part of it. And they edited it in.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting, because.

[Arden Marine]

And he was like. He thought she was unprofessional. Cause she would get giggly. But that's her charm.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Arden Marine]

She was so good in the first scene when they go up and she carries the watermelon up. I carried a watermelon. How hot dancing to 50s music could look. The horniness and the musk of the pheromones of that room.

[Millie Decherico]

Those people in the background. The background dancers are hot as fucking hell. They're all grinding on each other. I watch them all the time. When I watch the movie, I'm just like. Who is the, like, little. She's got. She's got, like, really, really short hair. She kind of looks like Liza Minelli.

[Arden Marine]

I know who you mean.

[Millie Decherico]

She's so sassy.

[Arden Marine]

This is her skirt. She's got a little, like, Maria or Anita. She's got, like, Anita from West side Story energy. And then when he comes over and he does the finger crook at her.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God.

[Arden Marine]

And the fact that they fucking hated each other. She's so poised and grounded, too. Like. And her little, like, kind of perm. Not perm. Like, she didn't look 50s or 60s. She looked kind of 80s, of course. And, like, his finger curl.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, there's several moments where I'm absolutely, like, she's the hottest woman ever. And not just me when I was, like, nine, but, like, even today as a grown woman. Like, there's two scenes. One is during the Hungry Eyes sequence where they close up on her waist.

[Arden Marine]

She's gonna snatch the waist. Her by her hands on Hungry Eyes. I've never wanted giant hands on my waist. I want the same proportions that they had with her waist. And his hands. I need to find somebody with, like, a meat hand and just stick it.

[Millie Decherico]

We can recreate.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

To hold you, like, backwards. Like, almost as the fingertips are going.

[Arden Marine]

Down, I'm like, please, like, holding the hips also. Okay. The way. Okay, sorry, I cut you off. Second scene when she was the hottest.

[Millie Decherico]

The second scene is during again, it's like another, like, one of the, like, montage sequences. And this was the one where they were, like, lip Syncing to Mickey and Sylvia Spaghetti.

[Arden Marine]

Spaghetti.

[Millie Decherico]

While it was strange. Yes. But the second one, when they're, like, fully together, hot. And he's on the floor and he's just kind of banging his body against the floor.

[Arden Marine]

I know.

[Millie Decherico]

And then they do this crazy. I don't know if they did it with a Steadicam or some kind of crane, but they focus in on her. And she's behind that little partition, and she's like, come here, lover boy. And I'm like, girl, you are doing that shit. Like, you are doing that shit.

[Arden Marine]

She was so hot, and she dated all the hottest guys. You see why this woman who's confident, she knows she's got it, she's like. And this I call bullshit on. Because they claimed that that was like. Oh, they just rehearsed like that. You don't have a city camp for rehearsal. That was, like, planned. That was bullshit. That was not like, found footage. Like, you have, like. You don't, like, push in like a creeper with the city cam. It's not happening. And again, I'm not trying to be problematic. I'm not trying to, like, like, all inclusive of all sizes. It's not. I've never wanted a body. I was like, I just want to. I just want. If I could have anyone's body on earth. I want to be. I want to be, baby. I want that body. I want to just wear that leotard and jean shorts, and I want those hands on. So also, allegedly, they never successfully did the lift until the finale. And that was the first and only time they did it. And so their joy was, like, real love of that they were coming together. Apparently they had to re. Show them their chemistry test to show so they could get. But they were worried they weren't gonna be able to get through the filming because they hated each other so much.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, they were trying to, like, make them fall back in love with each other.

[Arden Marine]

So then they fell again with. And so that they. But their joy of, like, her laughing and kissing him is like, that's Patrick and Jennifer had never actually executed the lift. When you look at his hands and her little head. Oh, and that dress. That dress.

[Millie Decherico]

They listen. They must have figured it out because I'm telling you right now, dude, if you play me the final scene, I cannot like that. Literally the, like, last minute of the film where he looks at her with, like, the most yearning I've ever seen in a man in my life in movies screen. Otherwise, I'm like, I fucking want some guy to look at Me and the way that he looks at her. He looks like he's about to cry or something. I just. He looks like. And I'm like, how did they figure this out? This is so genius. Like, this is everything for us.

[Arden Marine]

You know, I honestly think Patrick. It makes me. I feel like Patrick Swayze kind of became a joke after this for a little bit. I was like, oh, Patrick Swayze?

[Millie Decherico]

No, not for us.

[Arden Marine]

He's so good. I read Rob Lowe's book when it came out, and they were saying at the audition for the Outsiders that Patrick Swayze, everyone on the set, he was the cool guy. Everyone wanted to be Patrick Swayze, that he was the coolest one on the set. Like, that was the guy for Matt Dillon. All the guys wanted to be Patrick Swayze.

[Millie Decherico]

Did you see the documentary about him that came out? I guess it was a couple years ago. It's fantastic. And it was like. The documentary really nailed what I think I loved about him, which is that. That he's this, like, rugged, masculine guy, but he dances and he's sensitive, and he's not afraid to look feminine in his, like, body and his, like, you.

[Arden Marine]

Know, he's so good in Ghost. He's incredible in Ghost.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just recently rewatched Ghost. That's another one where you could, like, kind of, like, make fun of him for that movie, but he plays it. He's. He is so intensely dedicated to his performance in these movies that he totally loves, like, raises the profile of these films. And he just.

[Arden Marine]

I wonder if it's because he was too handsome or pretty. He's like. He's, like, masculine, but he's too beautiful. He's pretty, but masculine, but he's pretty. And I wonder if. I wonder. I actually felt like with his Johnny speeches, I bet people did dismiss. I mean, you could tell this guy had a work ethic. So, like, I wonder if his beauty got him dismissed many times. Probably, like, you know, it's not something that most regular people have to deal with, but I would imagine. I bet people belittled his talent or his efforts, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, it's like some reason, like. Sorry, Casey, I didn't mean to cut you off.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, no, no, please.

[Millie Decherico]

I feel very passionate about the subject. I'm going insane right now. But, like, I know that's. I was like, casey, why don't you just go away?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie did say before this interview that. That she might ask me to leave the interview.

[Arden Marine]

I'm super fans. I have so many more facts, but I feel like I need to hear Casey When Millie's done.

[Millie Decherico]

I know, I know. Sorry, Casey, I'm gonna say this, and then I'm gonna let you speak. But, like, the thing is, I feel like for some reason, the moviegoing audiences. All right, like, primarily men. Let's get serious. Straight guys can't accept a leading guy who, like, knows how to dance. I don't know why they don't do that.

[Arden Marine]

I watched Havana Night. Side note. Okay.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, exactly. And because I. Channing Tatum is probably the most similar comp. Yeah, he's like a more. He's probably the most modern day Patrick Swayze we have right now.

[Arden Marine]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

The thing that Channing Tatum has done that Patrick did not do was that Channing Tatum basically realized his own. Like, he almost said to himself, I know people think I'm going to be corny, so I need to get on top of it, get ahead of the curve and, like, be fun, funny, and, like, start doing comedies and start, like, making fun of him.

[Arden Marine]

He's 21 Jump Street. He's hilarious.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, exactly. And he's great in Magic Mike, but see, Patrick was more earnest. He was really serious. And so. And he did not allow himself necessarily to become, like, the caricature of who he was. I mean, he did it on, like, SNL maybe once or twice, but he wasn't like Channing Tatum, where he just, like, completely, like, was like, I'm self aware of who I am.

[Arden Marine]

Maybe he wasn't funny.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, I could.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, that could totally. I think with. Yeah. Like you're saying, Millie, there's always a little bit of a, like, wink to the camera with Channing, like, even in the Magic Mike stuff, it's kind of like, isn't this funny that I'm doing this? You know, but, like, Patrick Swayze was, like, just such an artist. He was so committed to it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I think, Arden, to your previous point about him being too beautiful. I. I think that's right. But I also think he is such a man.

[Arden Marine]

Oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, like, and, like, he can't be. He. So, like, maybe he can't get in these, like, teen romances as much because he is so.

[Arden Marine]

He's not. He's a man. He's a. No, he's a man.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, can you imagine if you were Jerry Orbach and you're like, I'm. I'm the man who's, like, wooing your daughter. It would be sort of frightening.

[Arden Marine]

No, no. As a person who hosts a bachelor podcast, ABC often picks a male lead that feels like like, kind of neutered. That's a little bit like, don't worry, they're not really going to fuck your daughter. Like, this last bachelor was hot, but, like, they kind of. Patrick Swayze is going to, like, bang your daughter like, like 58 times all weekend. Like, what? Your daughter is going to get just, like, banged. Okay, I have a few things to say. Okay, here's other facts. Apparently the woman who played the mom was initially cast as the, like, woman who is sleeping with him, who then sleeps with Robbie. Who?

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, the rich lady.

[Arden Marine]

Vivian. Vivian. She was initially Vivian. But the woman playing the initially playing the mom had, like, an accident or got sick or something happened. She couldn't do it. So at the last minute, she got bumped up to the mom. And then they brought in the different actress to play Vivian. Yeah, the sister who I think is incredible. And I can't believe she didn't work more. I thought she was hilarious.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, she's great.

[Arden Marine]

She wrote her own song that was in the talent show.

[Millie Decherico]

Like Little Seashell.

[Arden Marine]

She was so good at being incredible. And I also want to give a shout out for how hot Jennifer Gray is and how good she is at being that first time when she's learning, when she carries a watermelon, to be able to, like, thrust your hand hips badly, but believably badly. Not overdoing it, like, right. And then to then start to get it in the dance there. To go from being, like, awkward, but not over awkward. And then starting to get into it. And then she spins around and he's gone.

[Millie Decherico]

See, I think she got her flowers. And I don't know if you read her autobiography. It came out, like, not too long ago. I got it on audio. Cause I was like, I want to hear her say her own words.

[Arden Marine]

Was it good?

[Millie Decherico]

But, like, it's. She's great. First of all, she's a legend because of everything. Like, first of all, she, like, dated every hot guy in Hollywood. Her dad was obviously Joel Gray. She came from one of those, like, performance, dance family.

[Arden Marine]

I forgot.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And, like, it sounded like she grew up in New York with, like, really artsy parents. Like, 70s actor parents, where, like, everybody was having, like, key parties and smoking cigarettes. And she was just, like a child on the periphery, like, learning about, like, life and going to the museums and stuff.

[Arden Marine]

All right, I'm gonna download. I'm gonna have her. I'm gonna listen to her do it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, but she's. But I feel like she really got her flowers in terms of, like, how good she is. In Dirty Dancing. Because obviously, when this movie came out, I mean, you and I remember this, it was all about Patrick Swayze. Everybody was obsessed with Patrick Swayze and, like, obsessed with Dirty Dancing as a concept, by the way. That was a huge. It was like the Macarena or something.

[Arden Marine]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

People were, like, going Dirty Dancing class.

[Arden Marine]

I had the album.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. Obsessed with the album. But, like, it was a movement. Like, people were like, oh, I can't wait. Me and my husband are gonna go to, like, Dirty Dancing class or whatever the fuck. It was, like, a thing. But, like, she. And she was obviously a part of this movie in a. But I think it's also, like, in a. More. She's. Now finally. I think people are being like, oh, she's the best. Like, in this movie. She's, like, the most beautiful. She's. She can dance.

[Arden Marine]

She's a good actor rewatching it. I agree with you. I mean, that always happens, though, even in, like, Twilight, because it's the females that are the ticket buyers. Like, the street girls, right? And they're like, I want. You know, Edward, I want whatever. Like. Like, it's like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like they.

[Arden Marine]

You know, I want Robert Pattinson. Like, you know, like. Like, they're the ones that go crazy. Okay. Apparently, the song she's like the Wind, which he wrote and performed, he had tried to jam it into, like, three movies that he'd already been in.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that right?

[Arden Marine]

And so it's great. And apparently also his script got denied, like, by, like, 45 places. And this little studio was like, okay, we'll make it. They made it for $6 million. And at that time, it made, like, 240 million dol. Apparently, it tested terribly. People were making fun of some. People were saying, you should just burn it and try to get the insurance money. Also, Patrick Swayze hated and tried. Was like, being a brat about. He hated the line, nobody puts baby in the corner. He thought it was really corny and he didn't want to say it. So he gave him, like, one take and then he said a pound. Watching it, he realized that they were right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Arden Marine]

And it was a female producer who had the vision and a female writer. And it was about her time growing up.

[Millie Decherico]

Exactly. Which I think is so key. I see that, like, a woman wrote it because it really could have been. I think it's a better movie that it was written by a woman because it's more textured. It comes from the female perspective. It's like. It's not about, like, oh, this is just like some teeny Bopper fantasy shit. It's like a coming of age story. It makes it more of a coming of age story, you know? It's lovely.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is like, such an interesting movie because before I had seen it, I knew, like, I knew of Dirty Dancing, obviously.

[Arden Marine]

When did you know? When I watched it for this.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I'd seen it before. I'd seen it before, but when I. The first time I watched, I remember being like, oh, this is, like, set in the 50s or, like the early 60s or whenever it is. And I was like, oh. Because, like, the music, it's sort of, like, anachronistic, a little bit. Like it takes place in the past, but the present. I mean, it is sort of a. It has sort of a surreal feel. Yeah.

[Arden Marine]

It's weird that, like, there's nothing 50s about it. They made it very well.

[Casey O'Brien]

Also.

[Arden Marine]

Like, you have the. Apparently the abortion storyline. They were trying to get sponsors. People kept trying to make them take out the abortion storyline. It's like, well, then you don't have a story. You need the abortion. Otherwise that generates the whole. I didn't understand, like, she can't get the abortion because they lose this season's salary. I'm like, at the Shell, Drake. Like, I don't know. What do you mean? For the. At the. At Kellerman's or the Shell. Like, I don't understand. And next year's gig anyway. But I was like, I'll just go with it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. When I was young, I had zero idea it was about abortion. I thought it was just like, she has a bad stomachache. I don't know what's going on.

[Arden Marine]

She's like, whatever, let's just get back to the dancing.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is there any dance moves you do from this movie, like, you try to recreate at all in your own personal life?

[Arden Marine]

I would want. I would want the lift. I want the lift.

[Casey O'Brien]

The lift.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

When. When Patrick Swayze is so. Like the end scene, when he's coming down the stage.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. When those fuckers. When his crew come down that aisle. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And the crew.

[Millie Decherico]

Those fuckers come through and they're all dancing in sync. I can't stop shivering. It's the most amazing feeling in the world.

[Arden Marine]

Also, I think she gets this from me. And when the wife stands up to Jerry Orbach, she's like, sit down, Frank. And then he's like, when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. I'm like, okay, well, you could still give him a handshake. Cause you know what I mean? You're still being like, but everyone's a good actor.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and like, and to. Speaking of, you know, the abortion sequence, I mean, the woman, Cynthia Rhodes, who played that actress, she's hot as hell too.

[Arden Marine]

How about like kind of the like one guy, two girls of. When Cynthia's behind her and in her outfit, she just starts like, basically she's in like a bra, a sweaty like tank top tied up to her table, titties, like cute little. Like this could be a today, you know, skims, you know, like.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Arden Marine]

High waisted underwear. And then like a heel. And then. And then Cynthia's hands are on her little hips and then she's between she and Patrick Swayze. It's like full threesome sex party. Like, good for them.

[Millie Decherico]

That throuple is so like in that scene is so hot. It's like they knew they. Whoever filmed it, whoever wrote it, whoever. Whoever fucking lit it, knew exactly what was going on. They were like, these are the hottest people. Gotta get in there, get them bellies, get the pans. Like get everything.

[Arden Marine]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I swear I could talk about this movie literally for years and years and years. Obsessed.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Arden, thank you. This was so wonderful getting to chat.

[Millie Decherico]

With you about this.

[Arden Marine]

My cells are firing.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like you and I should.

[Millie Decherico]

Just like start a Dirty Dancing podcast. Yes.

[Arden Marine]

And just have the same talk every day.

[Millie Decherico]

Literally. Just us bringing up our favorite scene.

[Arden Marine]

I remember back in the day, but I couldn't find it. I couldn't find it. Verified. I remember now. This makes sense. Now you would have a pasty, but apparently she wore band aids. Allegedly she wore band aids on her nipples during the sex scene. But it's like, great. I don't blame her. I don't blame her. Like, but that was like, oh, band aids on the like at the time. That was pre pasty.

[Millie Decherico]

Interesting, interesting, interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

God, you had so many wonderful thank you to and facts.

[Millie Decherico]

You are truly an expert. Like, I've never met another person who knew as much about this movie, so.

[Arden Marine]

Well, thank you so much again. I also like doing podcasts. And so the ones, the ones I say yes to, I'm gonna come and give it my all. So that follows the assignment. You call yourself an expert. Why don't you glance at the textbook before the quiz, bitch? You know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. Well, Arden, you're on the most recent season of Righteous Gemstones. Is there anything else happening?

[Arden Marine]

The best show you can get my book, Little Miss Little Compton anywhere. I have a very fun, exciting, secret thing coming up that I'll be in Atlanta Filming all summer. And then my podcast is on hiatus right now because it's in between seasons. But I have a comedy podcast about the Bachelor franchise that honestly mostly talks about everything else, but it's called Bleeding. Except this rose. That's it. You can find me on Instagram. Ardenmarine looks like Myron M Y R.

[Casey O'Brien]

I N. Well, thank you so much, Arden. This was. This was an electric conversation. The best.

[Arden Marine]

I feel excited. I feel excited about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, so I guess it is now time for the end of the show where we always do employee picks, meaning Casey and I pick a film that we'd like to recommend for you. All that is related to our episode today. And I guess our episode is about mockumentaries. So. Yeah, we have any mockumentary that you want to recommend. Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm going to go. You know, I'm a bit of a homer and I love the movie Drop Dead Gorgeous from. We had already mentioned it in the show, but it is from 1999. It takes place in Minnesota, and I know a lot of people who are like, extras in it or like, in crowd scenes. It was a very big deal when it was shot here. It's a fake beauty. It's a beauty pageant. And it's got Allison, Janney, Kirsty Ality, Kirsten Dunst, Brittany Murphy, Amy Adams, which Amy Adams was. She's not from Minnesota, but she got her. She was acting in Minnesota. She got her start at the Chanhassen Dinner Theater in Minnesota, and this was kind of her big break and allowed Amy Adams to catapult into stardom. But I love this movie. It is really over the top and very silly and it takes a big swing. And I just. I love this. I don't know, I just love this movie so dearly. It was really hard to find for a long time. And now you can stream it. Yeah, check out Drafted Gorgeous.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, that's a good one. Obviously, love that one. Love Smile, 1975, which you have to see now that you've seen. I know Drop Dead Gorgeous so much, but a great one. So mine is a little bit. I actually haven't seen this in a very long time, but I fucking loved it when it came out. So there was a mockumentary that was technically a film. I believe it was also a TV show, and it was called Together two. The Number Two, and Gether, the rest of it. Together, you and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I know. Together.

[Millie Decherico]

So it was an MTV show and film about this fake boy band. It came out in 2000. So you know that the time is right. And it was basically a mockumentary about a band called 2gether that was like, based on very, like, Backstreet Boys, NSYNC adjacent. I didn't know this, but the creators are Brian Gunn and Mark Gunn, and they are related to James Gunn.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh.

[Millie Decherico]

Which I was like, I didn't realize that, but I guess it makes sense. But they created this. This fake universe of this, like, fake boy band. I. When I tell you I was obsessed with this.

[Casey O'Brien]

When it came out, I. Oh, I was too. I loved this.

[Millie Decherico]

Say it, don't spray it. I want the news, not the weather. Do you remember they had that, like, rival band, which I feel like was just called Whoa, and they had a song called Rub One Out.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I. I could not get over. I thought it was so, so funny that there were like all these young teeny bopper guys and then one of the guys is Kevin Farley, Chris Farley's brother. This like, bald old guy in there. And it was just so fucking funny.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God, he is incredible. The show is incredible. Like, I gotta find it all. It's gotta be online. I feel like it. To me, it was like one of these things where it's like, MTV is really, really bad at entertainment. A lot of times, like, they just throw up and see. They don't even give a. They're like, it doesn't even matter. This was one of the things where I felt like they. It almost felt like they were just like, hey, here's this, like, funny thing we can do that turned out to be actually funny and good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, totally. I mean, during this time too, like, MTV was much better than it is now, which it's not really anything now, but they would, like, you know, try something weird out once in a while. And this is like, like one of them that, like, actually hit, you know, something of quality.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, but it was so. It's so funny and good and like, I just remember cracking up. So anyway, that's my recommendation. Either the movie or the TV show together.

[Casey O'Brien]

That is so. I'm. I'm so interested. So it's Brian and Mark Gun, whose brother is James Gun, who, like, did like, Galaxy Guardians of the Galaxy movies and stuff. And then Sean Gun, who is an actor who was on the Gilmore Girls and was also in a TikTok recent. Like, the audio from the Gilmore Girls of his voice went very viral. And it's like, I love your daughter. Oh, have you heard that one? That's. That's Sean Gunn.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I didn't know that. That's Crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. That's audio from Gilmore girls. Anyways, Very interesting. Talented family. Wonderful. That's such a good one. Millie. I'm jealous of your pick.

[Millie Decherico]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much. No, listen, I'm glad we did this episode. I love. I mean, obviously, talking to Arden Marine, you saw me at my most feral. Okay, I was. There was a goddamn runaway train just then. Like, you really saw me in a space that I hold very near and dear to my heart. I don't show this often, but when I. When it comes out, it comes out. You know what I mean? And I just feel like she brought it out in me. She brought out the feralness. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, it was. That was a. You know, I said this word before. It was an electric conversation. And, you know, if I had been standing in front of Millie, I think she would have done one of those things where, you know, you take. You put your hand on someone's forehead to push them out of the way. I think that's. That was metaphorically what was going on in that conversation. But I needed it. I needed to get out of the way of the freight train. I had the. I had to get out of the way for my own safety.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, sometimes it's like, when it comes out of me, it comes out like love. I can't stop it. And I felt like I. I feel so bad that you were a little sidelined there, but when you get two sidelined stuff. Two girls going ham on Patrick sway. Let's go.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was a blast. And Arden is great. Check her out. The righteous gemstones. Her outfits are really great on that show, too. I should have mentioned to her, but she was wonderful to have on the show. But yeah, if you. In the future. We kind of skipped our film advice section today because we wanted to go a little bit longer with Arden and our main convo. So. But if you need our advice, you know, in the future, if you need a specific recommendation, you need help navigating a director's filmography. You need a film gripe resolved. Write in to DearMoviesExactlyRightMedia.com or you can leave us a voicemail by recording it on your phone and sending it to that same email address. Please record it in a quiet place. Keep it under 60 seconds.

[Millie Decherico]

Please, please, please, please. And then also, we're on social media. Dear movies, I love you on instagram and Facebook. Casey and I are individually on letterboxd. And our handles areceylee o'brien at mdechero.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right. And follow us on Instagram, because we just did an Instagram live and it was very fun and I feel like people really liked it. And next, if you're following us, it'll notify you that we're going live. So check that out and listen to Dear Movies. I love you on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also, rate and review our show positively, please. Positively. It helps. Helps get the word out there if you review the show. So, yeah, please do so if you're able to. We'd love that. It would mean the world.

[Millie Decherico]

So let's talk about next week, please. We are going to talk a little bit about a filmmaker named Barry Jenkins. I think you all know who he is. Director of moonlight and if Beale street could talk. But we want to talk about his films and then his, like one of his very early movies, if not his first movie, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Medicine for melancholy.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which 2008.

[Millie Decherico]

I feel like, again, we're talking about underrated films. I feel like it's very underrated. Medicine for Melanie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I haven't seen it, Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, you're going to watch it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I am going to watch it.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm thrilled you're going to give your opinion. All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, man.

[Millie Decherico]

That's it.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's it.

[Arden Marine]

We're done.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm emotionally exhausted by all of our time.

[Casey O'Brien]

We laid it all out. We were like Lebron James on the court, leaving it all out there.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. I feel like I'm at the bottom of the staircase with the watermelon smash. Like I didn't carry a watermelon. I just am sitting in the juices.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, thank you so much, Millie, for another fantastic episode of Dear Movies. I love you. It was a real treat.

[Millie Decherico]

Yep, you too. Thanks, everybody. See you next time. Bye. This has been an exactly right production host, hosted by me, Millie de Chirico, and produced by my co host, Casey O'Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie Decherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer, and Millie DiCerico.

[Millie Decherico]

We love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodbye. Be kind.

[Millie Decherico]

Rewind.

[Arden Marine]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Arden Marine]

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[Millie Decherico]

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[Arden Marine]

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[Millie Decherico]

Mobile app is available for select mobile devices.

[Arden Marine]

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[Casey O'Brien]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report let's be honest.

[Millie Decherico]

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