No Other Choice (2025)! Plus, Micro Budget Writer/ Director Morgan Evans

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You – February 3, 2026

Episode: No Other Choice (2025)! Plus, Micro Budget Writer/Director Morgan Evans
Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O'Brien
Special Guest: Morgan Evans

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Episode Overview

This episode explores Park Chan Wook’s dark comedy No Other Choice (2025), digging into themes of capitalism, masculinity, and the desperation that accompanies losing one’s place in a changing world. Millie and Casey deliver their signature blend of deep cinephilia, leftist critique, and personal candor, connecting the film to their lives and the broader state of the world. The latter half features an interview with indie filmmaker Morgan Evans, discussing the making of his microbudget mockumentary and the enigmatic career of Linda Fiorentino (The Last Seduction).

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Personal Check-Ins & Societal Context

Coping with Loss and Political Anxiety

• Millie shares the recent loss of her beloved dog Sophie (02:10–08:19), offering a heartfelt tribute and reflecting on grief:
  • “She was like, a little floofer, crusty white dog...those things are fucking tanks. They live forever, you know?” (03:28 – Millie)
  • “It was like worst day of my life...I’d honestly think I’ve never been sadder in my entire life that day.” (05:42 – Millie)
• Millie thanks listeners for their supportive messages and describes the unique bond she shared with Sophie, reminiscing about their LA adventures.
• Casey describes tension in Minneapolis due to ICE raids, voicing pride in Minnesotans’ solidarity and anger about the political climate:
  • “It feels like we’re in a militarized, like, an occupation right now in Minneapolis.” (09:04 – Casey)
  • “I pray that there’s some justice for this...the way we’ve treated immigrants in this country...I hope that there is a reckoning.” (10:24 – Casey)
• Both hosts acknowledge the difficulty of finding joy amid political and personal pain, but reaffirm the value of community and art.
  (10:04–10:54)

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Fandom & Capitalism

Navigating “Guilty” Pleasures

• Millie discusses her BTS fandom and the internal conflict of expensive concert culture:
  (15:01–20:18)
  • BTS’ economic power and global presence
  • Concerns about pursuing joy in the face of societal inequity:
    “I’m having a hard time with that because I know that these tickets are going to be fucking crazy expensive...I can’t justify it.” (20:18 – Millie)
  • Fandom vs. authenticity, “sleeping with capitalism but never marrying it”
• Casey raises questions about celebrity and power, referencing BTS, Taylor Swift, and The Rock:
  • “People who are that famous and rich think that there is something genetically different about them as a human being...” (21:24 – Casey)
• Discussion on authenticity, joy as resistance, and the tension between mass media entertainment and the desire for meaningful, independent art.
  (24:32–25:42)
• Millie and Casey agree that boundaries are necessary and that joy is important—even as scrutiny of how we consume media increases.

---

Film Diaries

(26:54–34:26)

Millie’s Classical Music Biopics:

• Rewatch: Amadeus (1984)
• Song of Love (1947)
• A Song to Remember (1945)
• Reflects on the intersection of classical music and film—“What fucking nerdy shit...” (30:29 – Millie)

Casey’s Watches:

• Together (2025, Alison Brie/Dave Franco horror): “It did feel like a very kind of A24...I think I gave it three stars on Letterboxd.” (31:37 – Casey)
• Clear and Present Danger (1994): “I love Harrison Ford...I had a great time. I’d never seen this before, so it’s like two and a half hours long, though.” (32:18 – Casey)

Film Length Preferences:

• The optimal movie is 75–82 minutes for both Millie and Casey.
  • “If I see that you get an automatic star, that’s like a star bonus on Letterboxd.” (32:56 – Casey)

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Main Discussion: No Other Choice (2025) by Park Chan Wook

(36:53–81:52)

Director & Context

• Park Chan Wook is framed as one of South Korea’s essential auteurs—often compared (unfairly) to Bong Joon Ho; acclaimed for darker, more intense narratives.
  • “He’s one of those cinephile lover boys out there, wouldn’t you say?” (38:10 – Casey)
  • Notable works: Oldboy, Lady Vengeance, The Handmaiden, Decision to Leave

The Film: Summary & Analysis

Plot Overview

• Protagonist: Man Soo (Lee Byung Hun) — a specialty paper expert, family man, abruptly laid off after 20+ years.
  • “I think I can relate to that...The exact same thing happened to me.” (43:27-44:04 – Millie)
• Struggles to find new work; sees his expertise rendered obsolete.
• Man Soo devises a plan: pose as an employer to glean all job competition, then methodically eliminates the three most hireable rivals.
• Dark comedy unfolds as each murder is executed (or accidentally facilitated), and his family life unravels.

Societal & Thematic Insights

• Comparison to Parasite: Both address class, capitalism, and the meaning of work in modern South Korea.
  • “Did you think it was interesting that people were comparing it to Parasite?” (46:18 – Millie)
  • “Tonally, it actually feels...similar to Parasite in that it is a dark comedy...the house in this movie is a character.” (47:26 – Casey)
• Industry as Metaphor: Specialty paper symbolizes dying trades—echoing generational trauma, pride, obsolescence.
  • “Paper, weirdly enough, feels like vinyl...or a bygone product.” (50:48 – Millie)
  • “There’s like invisible essentials that nobody gives a fuck about anymore.” (51:26 – Millie)
• Masculinity and Work: Pride, shame, and the culturally specific pressure on men to provide.
  • “Men would rather kill their competition...than learn a new skill.” (55:32 – Casey)
  • “I have a lot of pride in it...I can’t imagine working as a dental hygienist or whatever.” (58:56 – Millie)

Notable Quotes and Observations

• On unemployment and pride:
  “When it’s down to absolute survival mode—yeah, I’m working in a fucking cafe. I don’t give a shit. I’ll do whatever it takes.” (56:56 – Millie)
• On shifting industries:
  “Why do you think they picked paper? Specialty paper...reminded me of The Office.” (50:36 – Casey)
• On killing off rivals:
  “There isn’t any trepidation about, like, can I really kill a man? There’s none of that. He’s just like, well, I should. Yeah, I’m gonna kill these guys.” (71:00 – Casey)

Alcohol as Recurring Symbol

• Multiple victims are alcoholics. Alcohol becomes both a tool for murder and a motif for escape and ruin.
  • “It did make me think about getting drunk off Korean spirits...” (74:30 – Millie)

Comedy, Tone, and Pacing

• Scenes “take their time,” infuse slapstick and awkward humor, and subvert expectations of a thriller.
  • “I was never bored, but this barbecue scene takes, like 25 minutes, and it’s basically just like, isn’t life good?...It really is. We’re really simmering in this scene.” (45:31 – Casey)
• Both hosts find the humor and darkness effectively translated for American audiences:
  “I feel like South Korean cinema, I find very funny. I feel like it’s one of the few non-English speaking countries that I actually think the comedy translates well.” (79:54 – Casey)

Final Takes

• Pacing and multiple endings are typical Park Chan Wook.
  • “I feel like the movie has several opportunities to end and then it doesn’t.” (77:10 – Millie)
  • Both hosts ultimately praise it—Millie even preferring it to Parasite:
    “Maybe that’s just because I feel like...this is right up my fucking alley. Definitely my life experience.” (78:34 – Millie)

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Interview: Morgan Evans on Micro Budget and Linda Fiorentino

(82:00–109:05)

Filmmaking on a Shoestring

• Evans’ Mockumentary:
  • Micro Budget is a faux documentary about a toxic, incompetent indie director and a diverse, exasperated crew (“he just sticks his foot in his mouth for like an hour and a half and he has no money and no idea what he’s doing.” – 84:10)
• Production parallels:
  • Real-life set was positive, but the anxiety of being mistaken for his toxic protagonist lingered.
  • “I really hope I'm not like Terry in real life, but yeah, it's unavoidable when you make a movie about a movie.” (84:57 – Evans)

Area of Expertise: Linda Fiorentino & The Last Seduction

• Evans is fascinated by Fiorentino’s unique screen presence, especially her contemporary femme fatale in The Last Seduction:
  • “Linda Fiorentino...she's a femme fatale, but in a very contemporary way for the time.” (87:11 – Evans)
• Recaps Fiorentino’s wild, noir-worthy real-life entanglement in the Hollywood Pellicano scandal—she dated the notorious private investigator, then an FBI agent on his case.
  • “That’s a 90s thriller right there.” (91:02 – Evans)
• Examines Fiorentino’s career stagnation—ostracism possibly due to misogyny (“difficult” label), industry risk-aversion, and bad luck.
• Comparison to Sharon Stone, Lauren Bacall, Dakota Johnson, Zendaya—ultimately, Fiorentino remains singular.
• Discussion of stifled mid-budget films and the lack of contemporary equivalents.

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Employee Picks

(110:32–114:24)

• Millie recommends: Umberto D (1952)
  • “Maybe the saddest movie of all time,” but one that similarly explores economic dispossession and the struggle for dignity.
• Casey recommends: Fargo (1996)
  • “About a man who takes a course of action that is insane, but they feel like if we can just accomplish this horrific act, then we’ll be smooth sailing after that.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• “Joy is an act of resistance, but...I am being more picky with what I am allowing to give me joy.” (25:07 – Casey)
• “Paper, weirdly enough, feels like vinyl...an invisible fabric of so many things...” (50:48 – Millie)
• “There’s no fucking way I’m going back to eating shit.” (55:32 – Millie, on pride after layoffs)
• “I don’t know, I just think the reality is, is that I love Lee Byung Hun so much...he really gets to be super funny in this movie.” (78:34 – Millie)
• On French humor:
  “What is French humor about? What’s the groundwork for French humor?...Smoking. Being topless on the beach, eating a baguette...” (81:39 – Millie)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:10] – Millie’s tribute to Sophie and grief reflections
• [09:04] – Casey discusses ICE raids, Minneapolis, and resistance
• [15:01] – BTS fandom and joy vs. late capitalism
• [26:54] – Film diary (Millie: classical biopics; Casey: Together, Clear and Present Danger)
• [36:53] – Main discussion: No Other Choice opens
• [50:48] – Paper as metaphor & relevance to modern life
• [55:32] – Masculinity, work, and layoff stigma
• [71:00] – Escalation of murder plot, “No other choice” philosophy
• [79:54] – On comedy in Korean cinema and translation
• [82:00] – Interview: Morgan Evans on Micro Budget
• [87:11] – Linda Fiorentino as contemporary femme fatale
• [110:32] – Employee Picks: Umberto D, Fargo

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Final Thoughts

This episode offers a deft mix of funny, unpretentious film talk, poignant social commentary, cinephile analysis, and earnest self-disclosure. Millie and Casey’s rapport is both playful and deeply honest, making the serious material approachable. The episode stands out for its nuanced discussion of the gig economy and job displacement, a fresh take on Park Chan Wook’s global profile, and a rare deep dive into a forgotten ’90s actress-turned-myth.

If you care as much about movie culture’s capacity for healing and resistance as you do about its history, Dear Movies, I Love You is essential listening.

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Find Millie and Casey on IG @dearmoviesiloveyou or check out Micro Budget at microbudgetmovie.com.

Transcript

[Millie de Chirico]

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[Public Sponsor/Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index with AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year, you can literally type any any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors, llc, SEC Registered Advisor. Generated Assets is an interactive analysis tool. Output is for information informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosure is [e-mail] Disclosures hey, this.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is US Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis.

[Casey O'Brien]

Woodhull and I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Millie de Chirico]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Casey O'Brien]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Millie de Chirico]

So when it came to getting the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Millie de Chirico]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply. Hi Casey. How are you today, Millie?

[Casey O'Brien]

Not great. I think you and I have both had a painful time recently.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I would say that this is, I think the first recording that we're doing where my precious little dog Sophie is not walking around in the background. She has crossed over the Rainbow Bridge, as they say. I don't even know where that term comes from.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, Is it Mario Kart?

[Millie de Chirico]

Is that literally it?

[Casey O'Brien]

Dude, I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow. I thought it was like, a Kermit the Frog. I guess that's Rainbow connection. I didn't. I don't know. I don't know where the rainbow bridge comes from. I guess it is an easier thing to say than, like, I put my dog down.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's Nor. It's Norse mythology, I think.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, okay. So it is not Mario Kart related.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's not Mario Kart. Okay, I'm sorry, but continue.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, thanks for clarifying that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I.

[Millie de Chirico]

Have obviously been extremely sad for the past, like, couple weeks. I mean, I. I've made a post on my Instagram about it, and a lot of our listeners who follow me on Instagram commented or sent me messages that were very sweet, and I really appreciate it. So if you took the time to, you know, comment and, you know, send me something nice, then I just wanted to thank you. My dog was 15 years old, and so she lived a extremely long life, and I'm very lucky in that regard because she was like, a little floofer, crusty white dog. And, you know, like, those things are fucking tanks. They live forever, you know? And it's like, I was so lucky to have all that time with her, and I just was, like, going through, like, my cloud photos of us and just of all these, like. I mean, when we were living in la, which was, quite honestly, her finest moment, like, she fucking loved LA as most this. I actually had to edit this out of the caption. There is, like, literally no better place for a dog than la, because it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, oh, it's the little dog capital of the world. It has to be.

[Millie de Chirico]

And she was, like, thriving there. Like, in West Hollywood. Are you joking? We would go to the dog park behind Tom Tom on Santa Monica. Like, you know, like, yes, like, we would not all the time, because I always actually thought it was pretty bougie and stupid. But, like, you know, in West Hollywood, where every person has a little tiny floofer dog and you can bring the damn dog to Whole Foods and Target and go off leash at, you know, run in and all this stuff, I mean, this was just, like, perfect for her, and so she really loved it. And I was just looking at all these photos, and then it just was like, I gotta post all this stuff onto this Instagram. But, like, that. That post, I think, was, like, really important for me just to be able to, like, express what I wanted to express. But then a lot of people commented on it and were very nice. And I know that I'm not alone. I know everybody has been through the death of a pet, most of us, and it's, like, terrible.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it was like. It was like worst day of my life. Like, I can honestly. I would honestly think I've never been sadder in my entire life that day, but it was like, as everybody goes through when they're do when they have to make this decision, it's like her quality of life was just not good at the end of the day, and I had to. I think it took me a while to really come to terms with that because it was just me and her. Like, I don't think any, like. Like 15 years, you know, I lived alone with her. No other people in the house, just me and her. And she was like. Like every thing. It was a very special thing. And, you know, with all special things, it's like you just. When it ends, it's just really, like, heartbreaking. So, anyway, having said all of that, I just wanted to thank anybody that reached out to me and. And, you know, I appreciate it so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, thank you for sharing that, Millie. It's so hard, and I know how hard it is, and it's just like one of the most painful things that can happen to a person. I mean, it's just unbelievable how painful it is to have to put a pet down. It's just so gut wrenching. So, we love Sophie, we love you and she's a legend, but we're glad you're here.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thanks. Just imagine her and her and Dolly and Dog Heaven. The Rainbow Bridge.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Dolly had no friends in the real world, so maybe she made a friend in heaven.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, and Sophie's the one. Because she was. She was always an admiration of other more dynamic dogs. I can say that. I said that when she was alive, like, she was a Beta girl. Like, she was really like, who's the most popular chick? I will follow her around forever. She was kind of like, who was it? She was the girl like, who is that? Is it Lacey Chabert that's in Mean Girls? Like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Lacey Chabert. Yes. She was, like, blanking on her character's name, but she's the one that said Fetch. Yes. She's kind of the. One of the Plastics.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. So basically, Dolly would have been Regina George and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. But I have no doubt that they're having fun, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, goodness gracious. I also just wanted to address. I live in Minneapolis and, you know, obviously there's issues with ice raids going on and it's very scary here. We are safe. We live in an area where ICE is pretty active. I have not actually seen any with my own eyes. So we're staying safe. I'm hoping that things don't escalate past what they have already and I hope ICE leaves immediately. But thank you to everybody who has reached out to me as well. Really appreciate it. It is scary. It's very scary. I mean, it feels like we're in a militarized, like an occupation right now in Minneapolis.

[Millie de Chirico]

God.

[Casey O'Brien]

So. But Minneapolis rules. It's banding together. ICE will never defeat this place. And I'm just really proud to be from here and I'm proud of the Minneapolis people and the greater Twin Cities people and Minnesota as a whole. And. Yeah. So just wanted to touch upon that. That obviously that's like top of mind right now for me and. But I also, I wanna, you know, have fun on this episode and record in the podcast and we still have to live our life and we're not gonna let ICE destroy that. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just wanted to touch upon that a little bit before we got started today as well.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I'm glad you did. I mean, I. For sake of time, I won't go into my own thoughts about what is happening in the world and specifically in Minneapolis right now. I mean, we will be here for a very long time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

But obviously I'm in support of your community and you guys and just stay safe and you know, I'm just wishing for the best. I hope to fucking God in 50 years we look back on this shit and just understand how fucking terrible it is. I mean, I don't know. I just.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I hope people pay. I hope these monsters have to pay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I pray that there's some justice for this. Not just for the multiple murders that they've committed, but also just for this occupation and the way we've treated immigrants in this country. I think it's deplorable and I think that I hope that there is a reckoning for the people that have done these things to our most vulnerable people in the country. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh boy. Well, on that note.

[Casey O'Brien]

On that note. But we got a lot to talk about today. Lots of fun stuff. We're talking about the new movie from Park Chan Wook, no Other Choice, which came out this last year, now 2025. And lots to say about that. Millie and I went out to the theaters to watch that. It's a new movie. And then we're also going to be talking. We have a. My area of expertise segment with the director, the writer and director Morgan Evans, who has a new movie out soon called Micro Budget, which is a really funny kind of mockumentary about making a micro budget movie. Highly recommend it. But he's talking about his area of expertise, which is Linda Fiorentino and the movie the Last Seduction. So lots of good stuff to come on this show.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right. Stay tuned. You are listening to Dear Movies, I love you.

[Morgan Evans]

Dear Movies, I love you and I've.

[Millie de Chirico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Public Sponsor/Announcer]

Support for the show comes from Public, the investing platform for those who take it seriously. On Public, you can build a multi asset portfolio of stocks, bonds, options, crypto and now generated assets which allow you to turn any idea into an investable index. With AI. It all starts with your prompt. From renewable energy companies with high free cash flow to semiconductor suppliers growing revenue over 20% year over year. You can literally type any prompt and put the AI to work. It screens thousands of stocks, builds a one of a kind index and lets you back test it against the S&P 500. Then you can invest in a few clicks. Generated assets are like ETFs with infinite possibilities, completely customizable and based on your thesis, not someone else's. Go to public.com podcast and earn an uncapped 1% bonus when you transfer your portfolio. That's public.com podcast paid for by Public Investing Brokerage Services by Open to the Public Investing Inc. Member FINRA and SIPC Advisory Services by Public Advisors llc. SEC Registered Advisor Generated Assets is an interactive Analysis Tool output is for informational purposes only and is not an investment recommendation or advice. Complete disclosures [e-mail] disclosures hey, this is.

[Millie de Chirico]

US Olympic gold medalist Tara Davis Woodhull.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I'm US Paralympic gold medalist Hunter Woodhull.

[Millie de Chirico]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Casey O'Brien]

A clear path and a team that you can absolutely trust.

[Millie de Chirico]

So when it came to getting the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Best mortgage, we chose PennyMac.

[Millie de Chirico]

PennyMac is proud to be the official mortgage provider of Team USA and you learn more at pennymac.com PennyMac Loan Services, LLC equal housing lender NMLS ID 35953 licensed by the Department of Financial Protection and Innovation under the California Residential Mortgage Lending Act. Conditions and restrictions may apply. Hello everybody. You are listening to Dear Movies. I love you. This is a podcast for those who are in a relationship with the cinema. My name is Millie de Chirico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

And yes, we are talking about a new movie this week. I know we're recording this a little early, so technically I will have known my fate. But as I mentioned a couple episodes ago, my one real fandom in the K pop world is bts, and they're going on tour. They've just announced their new world tour. And I'm sort of in the process of deciding, like, what level of the Hunger Games I want to participate in to like, actually try to get a ticket for this thing. Because they're not playing in Atlanta. A lot of controversy about that, but they're not playing in Atlanta. They are playing in a, you know, a couple different cities near me that are random, to be honest. But I, they're playing four dates in LA in September and I'm like, okay, maybe this is a good chance for me to go back out to LA and like, do all my go to all my places, you know, go to my restaurants, my coffee shops, my bookstores, and hang out with my friends for four days.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's at SoFi, which is, you know, I've never been. I never went to SoFi.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've never been there either.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's. And they have a new album that comes out three days before my birthday, which is also a huge deal. But there's this moment. I've actually talked this over with a couple friends of mine because I was having some thoughts and some guilt about it. Like, I'm reading all this stuff about this new tour and about how basically, you know, like, bts, for those people who know, is very probably the most famous K pop band of all time. They have Been on hiatus for many years because they were in the military. I mean, they haven't toured in like seven years. They haven't had a new album in like a couple years. So everybody's like, really excited for them to, for them to come back. It's like the kings are back. It's like that feeling. And I'm sitting there thinking, okay, so here's this band, this extremely globally popular band who makes so much money that they are part of the, like, South Korean economy. Like, their band helps fuel the South Korean economy. Like, it's insane to think about, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And they. I was reading some estimate from some article that says that, you know, they're gonna make like over a billion dollars on this tour and this and that. And I'm like, how am I feeling about something like this right now in our country, in our fascist dictatorship where people are hungry and getting pulled out of their cars? Like, I'm having that moment of like, what is it, Is it Vince Staples that says never you can sleep with capitalism but never marry it or something like that, where I'm starting to feel guilty for even sleeping with capitalism. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

The relationship with capitalism is getting a little too serious.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's like the. Of course, the worse the world is, the harder it is to find joy in these extravagant things.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I, I'm having a hard time with that because I know that these tickets are going to be fucking crazy expensive, as all concerts are, but then also just like the idea that we're all having to like, come up with a game plan in order to buy them, because it's all like pre sale codes and fucking sold out in ten fucking minutes. And like, everyone's like spending thousands, if not tens of thousands of dollars to travel to these shows. And I'm just sitting here going, like, do I have it in me to like, jump into that game? And a lot of people think that's fun. And it's just sort of like, this is my fandom, this is what I do for my fandom. And I'm like, I don't know. I think it's obvious that I don't think of that. I don't. I think it's obvious that my quote unquote fandom for them and really for anything has its limits. It has boundaries. And there's just certain things that I can't justify from a capitalist perspective. I just can't. You know, you're going to tell me, oh, there's 13 versions of an album coming out. I'm not buying all Those fucking albums like Fudge that. I kind of have told myself that there is a level at which I will tap out on these concerts. Like, it's like, I just want to go to one. I really just want to go to one. I don't. I want to get in the building. It'd be nice if I sat close. I don't want to be in a nosebleed section. And I'm willing to. But I'm willing to, like, only go so far, right? I'm like, I'm not going to go over a certain cap of money and that's it. Like, I'm just. I can't justify it. So. But who knows? So who knows what's going to happen? I'll know next week whether or not I'll be at Sofi Stadium, but.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, well, keep us posted. Do you think the members of BTS could have someone killed and not touch them?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, kind of. I think I kind of do.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just feel like they could tell their manager, we need this one person killed. We need. And they would be like, okay, we can take care of that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Like, we need one of the guys in the vampire K pop band to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, you know, disappear.

[Millie de Chirico]

Disappear. Maybe he got, you know, a clove of garlic put pushed in his face and he just died. I don't know. They could probably arrange it. I wonder. This is probably a futile thought, but does it occur to extremely famous people that they maybe make too much money and have too much power and they should like, fucking drop down to earth? Like, do you think Taylor Swift is like, I really. I don't know, man. I make a lot of money.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I think what they would say to the public is like, I do think about that and I, you know, it weighs upon me and I'm, you know, and, you know, answer it in like, that sort of way. But I think on the inside, these people are like, actually believe. They are like, deities. I believe that Taylor Swift and like, people who are like, that famous and rich, think that there is something genetically different about them as a human being and that they deserve to have this level of wealth.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, that's what I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think about someone like the Rock who's like one of the most famous movie stars on the planet. I remember a few years ago, he was floating out the idea of running for president. I think it was around the time that Donald Trump was talking about running for president. Exactly. I'm like, you're so insane. And I mean, Donald Trump is insane, but I'm like, the rock you think you could be the President of the United States? Like, why do you, like, the ego? Like, you obviously think, like, you are some sort of godlike figure that can do anything on the planet.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

And you're just, like, not in touch with reality whatsoever.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And I mean, this is like, what we're experiencing right now in our government is that exact notion. And it's very, like. I don't know, it just really is, like. It just makes me not want to involve myself with anybody at that level of fame. Like, I'm just.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hear you.

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't want to deal with it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's hard to, like, think of them even as an artist. Like, and you're consuming. You know, you're putting on a. You're listening to a BTS album after, you know, like, on a playlist where you have, like, Liz Fair or something. You know, just like a random, like, other person I would consider an artist. And it's like, these are the same type of. Of per. They are doing the same thing. But how can you, like, enjoy BTS on any level comparable to that of a Liz Fair album? You know what I'm. Does that make sense, what I just said?

[Millie de Chirico]

No. Absolutely. There is a level of un. Artistry. I don't know what to call it, that I can appreciate in a very entertaining way. And it's fun to get sucked into things that are not that deep, you know? Cause it's like, life is fucking hard. And sometimes you do need something that is, like, kind of mindless and entertaining. But I think. Because. Yeah, I don't know, because I think we're intelligent people and we grew up sort of appreciating alternative, you know, indie music and independent artists and, you know, not just musicians, but filmmakers and, you know, other cultural people that were not, like, popular. They were under the radar. It does. It does wrestle with me sometimes. And. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I just am, like. Especially now, though. Like, the thing about right now is that it's all so brightly lit in terms of what am I doing? What am I spending my time on? What am I spending my money on?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is this something that I can reconcile within my ethical brain? Can I just have fun? Or is it not the time for fun? Is it. Yeah, time to pull back all of the shit that we've been doing in the past. Like, I don't know, this cycle of culture, the influencer culture, the pop music culture, this. And just go back to the start and, you know, what am I craving? Do I want authenticity? Again, I feels like I do. But it's also like.

[Casey O'Brien]

I. I do sincerely believe that joy is an act of resistance. But I do think that you. In these times, I have really thought about how I am imbibing art and media and like, what I am allowing to give me joy. You know, I am being more picky with what I am allowing to. And it doesn't have to be deep, but I just think about how things are being made and distributed in a much more now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

In the, in the times we live in.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, we'll see what happens. I mean, I, Like I said, I. I definitely have my boundaries when it comes to this stuff. I might get tickets, I might not. I mean, hell, they may fucking cancel the tour because we're living in a fucking shitty ass society right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if they're like, oh, you remember when ICE detained all those Korean auto workers? We are not coming to the Amer. To the United States. Couldn't you see something like that happening?

[Millie de Chirico]

That's why. That's exactly what people on TikTok are saying is the reason why they're not coming to Atlanta.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I mean, I can see why.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, it's like our governor had to go to South Korea to be like, sorry about that. And then they. It's not been really fixed from what I've heard. So it's like, I wouldn't fucking come to this place anyway. Like, I just, I don't know. To me, it is also like global tension is so high that I don't even know. If I was them, I'd be like, fuck, I am scared 100%.

[Casey O'Brien]

Jesus. You know what? This actually does kind of dovetail nicely with the movie we're talking about. That's right. Before we do, before we do that, we should get to our film diary. Let's open them up real quick.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's go. Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Film diary. Do you want to go first, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I'll be really brief because the three movies that I watched this week are all. They all have a relation to something that I'm been dipping my toes into. Ooh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

So I started listening to this podcast that was basically. I think Apple Music produced it, but it's essentially an overview of classical music. And classical music is a genre that I have shamefully no knowledge of. Like, I like, you know, I like classical music. I think as a movie person, you are in contact with scores and classical, you know, symphonies and stuff all the time. And I was always like, I just don't know anything about classical music? I have no idea. Like, the eras. I mean, I know who the major players are, but I don't. You couldn't tell me? I couldn't tell you if, for example, you know what the song is in 2001, A Space Odyssey. I couldn't tell you what the name of it is. I know what it sounds like, but I don't know. I don't have a working knowledge of classical music. That's my whole point. So I started listening to this podcast, and I kind of, like, got weirdly into it and was like, oh, now I know, like, the different eras and sort of the things that I like more than others. So I started, like, going down my list of, like, movies that were about classical musicians. And so I've been watching those movies. Number one, chief among them. I rewatched Amadeus from 1984.

[Casey O'Brien]

I need to rewatch that. So good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I only saw it as a kid, and I was shamefully like. So I guess Falco's Rock Me Amadeus doesn't play in this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is it gonna play over the credits?

[Millie de Chirico]

Maybe.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, it didn't.

[Millie de Chirico]

But, yeah, it's a great movie. It's really entertaining.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is.

[Millie de Chirico]

Abraham is really good in it. He's a real.

[Casey O'Brien]

That movie is phenomenal.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And then I watched this movie called Song of Love, which I had video drove. My local video store had to track down for me. They had to get a standard deaf Warner Archive DVD of this movie because it's just an old.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Classic film. It stars Katharine Hepburn and Paul Henry and Robert Walker. And so the long story of the. Long story short. Long story short. Song of Love is basically a movie that tells the story of this classic musician, Robert Schumann and his wife, Clara Schumann, played by Katharine Hepburn and Brahms. I'm sure you know who Brahms is, right? Johan Brahms. He's a famous musician. And essentially, it was this weird sort of love triangle. It's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Cool.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then I watched a movie about Chopin, who I love Chopin, called A Song to Remember. Another random movie that you can barely find.

[Casey O'Brien]

The Videodrome. Hunt that one down for you, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I had to go find out where I found that. Probably, like, it was probably, like, a public domain YouTube thing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. You didn't go to your bouncer guy who pulled out a piece of paper with his list of dubs?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I think he wouldn't have this banger, but Cordell Wilde plays Chopin and Merle Oberon is in it. And I don't know. It's like, I'm saying This now, and I'm listening to myself talk. I'm like, what Fucking nerdy shit. But that is my diary. My film diary is all classical musician biopics. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think that's cool. My. I watched two movies this past week. One was the Alison Bree, Dave Franco horror movie called together from 2025.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's this married couple that moves out from, like, the city. I think they move from Seattle out into the woods for a teaching job, and something happens where they get kind of cursed with this. They're like. Their bodies are, like, attracted to each other, and they're, like, literally, like, sticking to each other, and they're, like, being pulled to each other. It felt kind. I thought it was good, but it did feel like a very kind of a 24. It felt like there were parts in it that we had seen in other movies.

[Millie de Chirico]

Got it.

[Casey O'Brien]

So a little bit of Hereditary, a little bit of Midsommar, a little bit of Brian Yuzna's Society. Have you ever seen that movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

No.

[Casey O'Brien]

Society. Okay. So that was. I enjoyed it, but I think I gave it three stars on letterboxd. Then we watched Clear and Present Danger with Harrison Ford from 1994, about Dr. Jack Ryan. And I think I wanted to watch something about the government where there's, like, a good man in the government that will deliver justice.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I love Harrison Ford. And I had a great time. I'd never seen this before, so it's like two and a half hours long, though I had to break it up into two. Two sittings.

[Millie de Chirico]

It feels like anything that's based on Tom Clancy is going to be at least a good 90 minutes, if not longer.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Oh, yeah. What's your perfect movie length?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I've talked about this before.

[Casey O'Brien]

You have?

[Millie de Chirico]

My perfect movie length, to be honest, is 75 minutes.

[Casey O'Brien]

75 minutes?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. 75 to 82 minutes is, like, real nice.

[Casey O'Brien]

82. That's mine. I was gonna say 82. That's my perfect number. If I see that you get an automatic star, that's like a star bonus on letterboxd. I know you don't do star system, but.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, can I tell you as a programmer that has to fill time all the time?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's really. You know, like, when I worked at tcm, for example, we didn't have commercials, so anything that we programmed went to the quarter hour. Right. And he wanted to leave a little time in between. So, you know, you really have, like, a space of six minutes that you'd want to, like, give in between. The films. And I always loved a 75 minute movie because that's an hour and 15 minutes and so you would just round up to an hour 30 and then you would program a bunch of hour and 30 minute films and it would perfectly time out the day. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Love that.

[Millie de Chirico]

It was always a nightmare when you get into like the two 40s or the two 37s and you're just like fuck, I hate shit like this. Or alternately a movie is like fifth, you know, like 50 minutes or I don't know, like something like a random increment of time that doesn't like round nicely into a 24 hour schedule. Used to drive me nuts. So anyway, I, I always am a big fan of a 75 minute film because of being a programmer.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I see, I see. Very good. Good to know. That's a good tip to all the young filmmakers out there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyways, let's close up the diary.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh wow. Don't squish me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Foreign.

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Chirico]

As athletes, our lives are about having.

[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Chirico]

When Dr. Sabah and I decided to do a SK, he said to me, we are going to give women meaningful beauty. And I said, that's exactly right. We want to give women meaningful beauty, which means each and every product is meaningful. It has a. A reason to exist. It's efficacious. You're going to get results and then you just go out and live your life. Meaningful beauty Confidence is beautiful. Learn more@meaningful beauty.com.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, moving on to our main discussion.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

No other choice from 2025 by Park Chan Wook Screenplay by Park Chan Wook Lee kyung Mi Don McKellar Lee Jae High this is based off the book the Axe by Donald Westlake. It is a comedy, thriller, horror, dark comedy themes, capitalism, masculinity, family secrets, standout actors. Lee Byung Hun, who is the masked man in Squid Game in the first season. I haven't seen any of the other seasons of Squid Game, but apparently he's a bigger part of those.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh yeah, Are you kidding me?

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you seen these subsequent. Have you seen all the seasons of Squid Game?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes sir, I have. My mom was the one that got me to watch them. I think I talked about that, about how she's a big. I hadn't watched any of them and then I remember being at my parents house for the holidays or something and this was a while ago. She was like, I've seen every episode of the Squid Game like what the hell is your problem? Like what? Why you.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's so funny.

[Millie de Chirico]

But yeah, I watched. She re watched them with me which I thought was really sweet. So I'm. Yeah, I'm in. And also he plays Gui Ma in K Pop Demon Hunters.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Lee Byung Hun.

[Casey O'Brien]

So that's right. A movie we've discussed on this show. But this movie is directed by Park Chan Wook, who is kind of one of those. He's one of those guys out there. He's one of those real. He's a guy, you know, he's one of those cinephile lover boys out there, wouldn't you say?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean I think that he's probably the other really famous South Korean director besides Bong Joon Ho. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

In fact, I think a lot of people get them confused.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's interesting.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's interesting. And racist. No, I'm kidding.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But I think their movies are very different.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's funny because I, when I was telling people, oh, I'm going to see the new Park Chan Whoop movie, no other choice. They're like, oh, I love Snowpiercer. And I'm like, that's the other guy. That's the other guy.

[Casey O'Brien]

And so I feel like the other Korean filmmaker that kind of gets tossed in there is Lee Chang Dong. But his movies are much sadder.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh yeah. I mean, that's like. I watched Burning. That was the one. I fucking loved it. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But Park Chan Wook, some of his big movies are Decision to Leave, which came out in 2022. Old boy is probably his most famous movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

He also did lady vengeance, sympathy for Mr. Vengeance, the handmaiden. He's got quite a few popular titles out there. What's your personal connection to him or this movie? Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't know. I'm a fan. I saw a Decision to Leave at. When it came out at Fantastic Fest in Austin and Park Chan Wook was there and I remember my old. I say my old colleague as if because, you know, I was on the board of agfa, the American genre of film archive for a while. And the head of the board is Tim League, who used to run Alamo Drafthouse, but he was the. He hosted the screening of Decision to Leave. And then I remember he gave Park Chan Wook like this wrestling belt that he had. Had made. And it was, you know, like a WWF giant wrestling belt. And I just was like, what is happening right now? I was very. Because I was like, is this like an insight joke? Might have been. I mean, there's, you know. But I, But I remember, like, was.

[Casey O'Brien]

Park Chan Wook like, what is this?

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't know. I think it was like we had an interpreter with him on stage. I did think there was maybe something lost in American translation about the whole thing, but I was like, this is so fucking weird.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, thank you for your large American golden belt, Tim League.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, they have fun, I guess. But I thought Decision to Leave was really great. So I don't know. And I like Old Boy. That's pretty much the extent of my personal connection, though. What about you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I've only seen Old Boy. That's the only Park Chan Wook movie. And no other choice, obviously, but the. He's. He's one of those guys, those names that gets bandied about. I need to watch more of his movies because everyone loves his films. Him. His movies are A little darker than Bong Joon Ho's, I would say.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I agree. I think they're more. Bong Joon Ho has like a level of like, fantastical.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

In him. Like Okja is just thinking about Okja, you know, or whatever like that. I don't think. Oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mickey, 17.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Anyway, I do think Park Chen Wook is a little bit more based than Beast.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he's like the guy. He would be like the real shitheads would like love this dude, you know.

[Millie de Chirico]

But not as faces. Lee Changtong. He's the most based out of the current famous Korean directors.

[Morgan Evans]

But.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Well, you know, since this is a new movie, I don't want to. We're not gonna like totally spoil the ending, but we are gonna get into a lot of this movie, so. But I don't think we'll spoil it. Cool. The ending. Does that sound okay, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, of course.

[Morgan Evans]

Of course.

[Casey O'Brien]

Our main character is Man Soo. He's played by Lee Byung Hun, who is the guy in Squid Game. And he's a family man. He's a career paper guy. He works in specialty paper. He knows everything about paper. He's a paper guy. He has a wife, Mi Ri, played by Son Yi Jin. A teenage stepson, Si Won, played by Woo Sung Kim. And a cello prodigy, young daughter. She's like eight, I would say. Her name is Riwon and she's played by so Yu Choi. And Mansoo, our main dude, you know, he loves paper. He loves his life. He's got a nice house. He bought his old house, his parents house where he grew up. And life is good until it's not. Until he gets laid off. And once he gets laid off, all hell breaks loose. Now, Millie, in your notes here, you said you felt this layoff in your bones. Can you elaborate on that?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, yes, I can. You're setting me up for an entire movie about a dude who has a very specialized craft that is unlike a lot of other jobs. He dedicates his entire young life to the same company, 20 years, and then gets laid off unceremoniously. I think I can relate to that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think it. The exact same thing happened to me. So, yeah, I mean, I admit it. The minute I figured out what this movie was about, I was locked in. I was like, oh, I'm here for this guy. I know this guy. This guy is me. And I know that he. The actor Lee Byung Hun is in his 50s, but he looks younger than me, which is amazing.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm gonna be real. He looks younger than me. I'm 38 years old. He looks like he's five years younger than me.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, that's the Korean skin care that they got. And we don't have. Or we don't have the time for, frankly, because it's many steps.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

But he looks incredible. And, like, it's funny because for the most part, like, at the very beginning of the film, he. It's kind of this funny little, you know, he's like, grilling out, and he's got his little Hawaiian shirt on and his, like, little tiny mustache. So he has this, like, little tiny mustache throughout the, you know, first third of the film, which I guess technically makes him look older. But he still looks younger than Casey.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's amazing.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, honestly, that you did. I didn't know that he was in his 50s. And you telling me that it. I'm kind of pissed off right now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. He looks so good. Incredibly handsome and. I don't know. It's hard. I hate it. I hate when people are eternally useful.

[Casey O'Brien]

But this movie, really, I feel like. And this isn't an insult to the movie, but I feel like this movie really took its time because I just feel like there was like this. Like, I was never bored, but, like, this barbecue scene takes, like 25 minutes, and it's basically just like, isn't life good? We're. We're grilling eel. I love my family. Get over here. Let's hug, family. Come on, let's hug. Like, it really is. We're really simmering in this scene.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I have a lot more to say about that as we get towards the end of the film because I feel like this is endemic of a Park Chan Wook film. So I. We'll talk about that in just a second, but.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Do you think it's interesting, too, by the way, that the first of all, what I was reading very briefly about this movie, a lot of people were comparing it to Parasite, which is, you know, the Bong Joon Ho movie that came out a few years ago and is both allegedly and is the most.

[Casey O'Brien]

The greatest movie of all time from.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Whoever created that list.

[Casey O'Brien]

The New York Times.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, the New York Times. But, you know, I think it's probably the most famous South Korean movie ever at this point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I would definitely say so.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I will say also towards the, you know, the other Korean directors that I've seen, they tend to make a lot of movies about class and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, capitalism. Capitalism, which, of course, I fucking appreciate that shit. But it was funny because I did think about this when I was starting. The movie was like, oh, this is supposed to be kind of like Parasite. And I see where they're going with this. Did you think it was interesting that maybe, like, people were comparing it to Parasite? Like, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I could totally see why. Because, I mean, tonally, it actually feels. This movie does, I would say, feel similar to Parasite in that it is a dark comedy. And there's kind of a game to this movie in the way that there's sort of a game to Parasyte. You know, in Parasite, they're like, deceiving this rich family, and we'll get into what the sort of game of this movie is. But it also. I feel like the house in this movie is a character.

[Morgan Evans]

I feel like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, and the house in Parasyte was a character. So that was where I sort of saw similarities as well.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking too. But anyway, why not ask?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm going to move on to the next section here. So he's not getting a job. He's applying to places. And like Millie said, it's like a specialty job. He is in specialty paper, and he's high up in specialty paper, and it's hard to get a job. So Man Su devises a plan. He basically. He creates a fake paper company and he puts out a call to say he's hiring and hiring basically for what his job would be. And so he gets all these applications of like, all the top paper guys out there so he can see who his competition is. And he sort of decides there are really only three guys out there who would ever get hired above me. Like, if all four of us applied for a job, these three guys would get it above me, and so I must kill them. So that's his plan. He's going to kill the people that are more hireable than him, which is three dudes. And then, you know, per his plan, maybe he'll probably get a job that he interviews for. Although it's not really like a super solid, there's no guarantee that this will work even if he eliminates these three guys.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's some details tucked in there too, that involve one of the other characters, this guy Song Chul, who was played by Park Hee soon, who's like, he kind of has the job that he wants, but is also kind of spun it into this influencer thing. And it becomes this, like, I think at some Point. The Park Hee soon character is like, God, I'm working a lot, I got to hire somebody to help me. And this, you know, like, basically, man, Sue Lee Byung Hun's character is like, oh, I gotta get in there. Like, I want. I need to be this kind of person. Like, I need to be like, not just the employee, but like the paper influencer guy on Tick Tock.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And so we kind of like, I think internalizes all of that as to being like, okay, well, I need to like, eradicate anybody else that could be this person.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, and because I'm sliding in. And I just think that component, that little tiny detail is interesting because it does feel like the influencer part of it is interesting to me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Why do you think they picked paper? Specialty paper, as it just seems. So it reminded. I was thinking of the office. I can't help it. I was thinking of the office.

[Morgan Evans]

But, well, and then I wrote it.

[Millie de Chirico]

I wrote this. I wrote the notes, I wrote in the notes. Millie makes Casey realize that paper is important. And here's why. I think that this is actually a perfect industry to talk about in this film. Because paper is, in a lot of ways, kind of an old school concept. If you think about how everything is so digitized and, you know, fucking, you know, everything's in the cloud, everything is a shared doc, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Paper, weirdly enough, feels like vinyl or it feels like, you know, like a bygone product. And so I think that that's. I don't know if it was intentional in the book or in this movie to focus it on the paper industry specifically. But yeah, I mean, it feels like, okay, here's a bunch of like, older guys who work in this, like, dying industry that nobody appreciates anymore. And they're like artisans of it and they know everything about it and they're trying to, like, legitimize it still being like, well, how do you sign, you know, a receipt without paper? Or like, how do you do all these things? You know? And they're like championing this old school thing that we used to all use. It's like this invisible fabric of so many things. It's like. I mean, I don't remember the exact example, but, like, for example, they're basically saying in this movie, who the fuck do you think comes up with the paper that you remove from a band aid when you put a fucking band aid on? That's what I do. This is what I. Yeah, you know, like, there's like invisible essentials that nobody gives a about anymore. And they're all like, oh, this is our lives. This is what afforded me this life and this family in this house. I can kind of sympathize with that in a way because I mean, fuck, I worked in classic film for 20 years and I was constantly running around being like, but you wouldn't have Snowpiercer or whatever without this. Or you wouldn't have the Marvel movies without this. And it just felt like I was this old fuddy duddy loser that was, you know, championing this like, dying thing. And this is, I think what the movie is about is that I think that that's what he's being told, at least in his mind, about his thing that he's loved for 20 years.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know?

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, the first guy that he kills, attempts to kill is Byeong Mo, played by Lee Seung Min. Love this character.

[Millie de Chirico]

He's great.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's a drunk. And he's out of work too. He's an out of work paper guy, but he loves vinyl. And this is to your point. It's like he cares about the old textures, he cares about the old thing, you know, and he sees their way as like a. Their way of life as sort of dying. So man sue, he's going to go kill this guy, but he like keeps botching it. And this is also a part of the movie where I'm like, wow, we're really taking our time. He keeps like messing up this killing. So in the midst of this murder attempt, this vinyl loving Beom Mo discovers that his wife, Lee Ara, played by Yum Hae Ran, his wife is having an affair with a young dude. So the drunk vinyl guy discovers his wife is having an affair with a young dude. Man Sook. While this is happening, man Soo goes to kill him and the wife discovers that her husband discovers that she's having an affair. She ends up finishing the job. She ends up killing this guy kind of for Mansoo and covering it up so that her and her young lover can be together. Did that make sense? Does it? Does so he's killed his. So the first guy down. And I think this whole movie is interesting because it is about men. Because there is sort of a runner in the movie where they're like, why don't you get a job at a cafe? And they're like, huh? Why would I ever get a job at a cafe? I'm a paper man, you know. I do think it's about like, men would rather kill their competition. Like kill a man to get their old job. Back rather than, like, learn a new skill, you know, his wife, our main character's wife, becomes a dental hygienist even though she didn't have to work before. You know, she's more flexible. But men are much more inflexible when it comes to that type of stuff.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I think there's several things happening, obviously. Number one, I feel like we're talking about Asian culture, which has its own, you know, philosophies about pride and shame and stuff like that. Right. Especially Korean culture, which I'm not like, a expert on, obviously, but I do know that it's a, it's a thing. I mean, even Filipino culture, it's like, people don't want to seem like, you know, they're shaped, they're being shamed, or they're trying to save face a lot of times. And I, I, I. So I, I feel like there's this. That is kind of simmering in this mix. Right. But it's also that, like, I do think it's a, it's a patriarchy thing, which, again, is also an Asian culture thing. It's, you know, like, it's pretty patriarchal still. And there is probably a lot of, like, stubborn pride about, you know, like, well, I was making this level of money and I had this much power, and there's no fucking way I'm going back to, like, eating shit. Right? Yeah. But I also have to say to that end and to maybe a third thing, which is that I, I experienced that, I think, when I was laid off from my job.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because, I mean, I think when it's down to absolute survival mode. Yeah. I'm working in a fucking cafe. I don't give a shit. Yeah. I'll do whatever it takes. Right? And when I was unemployed for as long as I was, I was literally taking every opportunity I could. Like, a lot of it was film related, thankfully. But if somebody was like, hey, do you want to work at Cracker Barrel? I'd probably be like, fudge. Yeah. Like, I'll do that. Like, I have. I have to make money to survive. It's just the way it is. Right. But I do know people in my, you know, who in your travels and your unemployment travels and you meet all your old coworkers or whoever has also been laid off, and you guys are in this kind of, like, crew together of people who are trying to find jobs. And I'm still in that crew, by the way. Like, you don't ever. Not in entertainment. You got to keep on top of everybody because everyone's it is unpredictable if you'll have a job in film and TV at this point. But a lot of people that I know that are similar to, you know, the man suit character, that's like, I don't want. I. I have to continue working in my industry. Like, it's like, it's the only thing that I know, and I have a lot of pride in it. And I think that that is a hard thing to come to terms with, is like, when in your brain, in the specialized worker brain, where you're like, oh, I've done this thing with integrity and love and honesty. I have a lot of pride in it. I've done it for 20 years. I can't imagine working as a dental hygienist or whatever. It's really hard to get to that point of thinking, like, even to go back to school and try to do something different. That is extremely hard for people who have been in the same job for so long. So I kind of felt for him in that way, like, as much as I'm also like, okay, you're a dude. Get over it. Like, go and help your family out and don't be too stubborn about it. Also understood the other side, which is, like, it's really hard to see yourself in any other way when you've done something for as long as you have. You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, absolutely.

[Millie de Chirico]

I wanted to ask you. So Byeon Mo, the Lee Seung Min character, he drank a lot.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mm.

[Millie de Chirico]

Probably affecting his marriage, I would say definitely.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, she's having an affair with a young man.

[Morgan Evans]

He.

[Millie de Chirico]

There was at one point where he decides to get his shit together, and he's clearing out all his soju bottles. I was concerned for him. Did you not?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, maybe that played into Mansoo's ability to kill him because he was like, well, his liver must be absolutely destroyed by now, you know? All right. Victim 2. Se Joe, he's a shoe salesman. This was like, more of a killing. He, like, shot him, and then he, like, wrapped him up in wire and buried him in his backyard. It's fucked up. During this time, Miri, who is Mansu's wife, is really getting suspicious. Like, something is going on. You're, like, interviewing at night. What is happening? Why are you out all hours of the day? Why are you filthy? Why are you bleeding? Any thoughts on this little section? The victim, the shoe salesman?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. So it was funny because I was thinking, okay, so here is an example of this paper guy. A paper guy that has made a transition that has gone to shoes, the world of shoes and he mentions that he works for commission. And so I wanted to ask, have you ever had a job where you worked for commission before?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I have not. I've never been in sales of any kind like that.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think it's a pyramid scheme. I'm just going to throw that out there. But I, and I'm maybe not really knowing the details of how a pyramid scheme works. Works. I just love, I love the term. But I have worked for a commission before and it's fucking sucks. Like I'm just like it, you know, this is why the most insufferable people can work in the sales industry. Because it requires this like level of bullshit and enthusiasm and outgoingness that even me, I don't have that I'm. I would be, I would consider myself an extrovert and I still would fail at commission based work because it's just like, I don't know, it's like a grift. And it's like this weird feeling of like your base salary. Like they always tell you when you get hired for those jobs. And I'm talking about like the, that I worked in like college. I'm not talking about whatever. There may be other sales jobs that pay very lucratively and are very successful. But the shit that I did when I was working for commission, it was always like, well, we're gonna pay you like a dollar a month, but you have the opportunity to make $2 million an hour if you're just really good. And you know, it's just like the whole thing required. It's like working for tips but in an even more extreme way. And then you would get bonuses if you got over a certain amount of percentage and this shit. And I'm just like, that is fucked up. Like, I don't like working like that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think that it requires. I'm a very sensitive person and I feel like if I felt like I was annoying somebody, I could, I would be like, oh, step back. Like I would. Everything in my body would tell me to retreat, you know. And I feel like when you're working in sales in that capacity, you kind of have to turn off that sensor within you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and I'll just tell you too, I was actually in one of my jobs when I. It was a commission based job. I was actually an assistant manager for this company that paid employees on commission. Right. And like it is rife with fucking fraud. Like there's this one dude that worked at the company who was like much, much older than us. Like the rest of us, we were all in our 20s, and this guy was in his, like, 40s, late 40s, early 50s, and he was fucking banking commission. Like, I couldn't understand it. I was like, yeah, this guy's like a fucking. You know, he's like a little tap dancer. But I don't know, how is he able to make this much in commissions, like, month after month? Come to find out many, many years later. I mean, he was basically fucking faking it. Like, he was, like, out there. Like. I mean, I worked at a company that did, like, marketing research, and a lot of it was, you know, you had to call people and, you know, like, ask them if they liked fucking Tide pods and shit. And he would just, like, make up names and phone numbers and make and falsify results. So he would get like, you know, all these different, you know, quote unquote, like, clients or whatever in a day. That's why he was fucking rolling in it, because he was lying. So I'm just sort of like, okay, well, like, that system of reward is so easily manipulated anyway. So all this to say, poor C. Joe, because he is a shoe salesman and doesn't want to be, and then he ends up.

[Casey O'Brien]

He made me sad on the side of the road, ends up in a.

[Millie de Chirico]

Garden, and then in a garden. So tell me about the rotten tooth thing from your perspective.

[Morgan Evans]

Well.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've had a lot of teeth problems in my life, and I felt that. I didn't like that he had a rotten tooth. It's kind of a runner in this movie that he has a tooth problem, a rotting tooth, and his wife is a dental hygienist, and the dentist she works for is like, hey, I heard you have a bad tooth. Come in. I'll fix it for you for free, I think. And he still refuses, refuses to get it fixed.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, that's because that dentist was flirting with his wife.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, life was hot. I don't know what to tell you. This is. This is. That's the deal. I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

You're telling me that if a dentist. If your tooth was rotting out of your fucking face, and the only dentist who would do it for free is a guy that was, like, trying to hit on Trish all the time. You're telling me that, like, you'd be like, cool, let me. Let me get under this guy's thumb.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would be like, a hundred percent. I'm a weenie.

[Morgan Evans]

I would.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would be totally fine. I'm like, whatever Trisha needs to do to get me a Get. Get my tooth fixed. I'm fine. Whatever she's comfortable with, I would not bought that would not bother me at all.

[Millie de Chirico]

You would indecent proposal her? Casey, that is. That is rough.

[Casey O'Brien]

Only if she was, you know, willing and happy to do so.

[Millie de Chirico]

But get my husband a tooth. I'll do anything I have to do. What's this next victim like then?

[Casey O'Brien]

Now it's the nearing the end, he's finished his two victims. Only one person is in his way, and that is this annoying TikTok influencer, paper influencer guy, Seonchu, played by Park Hee Sun. So Man Soo befriends this guy and gets him drunk. He like kind of pops out of nowhere and surprises him and is like, hey, let's get a drink at your house. And he's like, okay, you've got alcohol. And they get blasted. Or I should say Seonchu gets blasted. Man Su is a recovering alcoholic and alcoholism is a big thing in this movie. But he gets seanchu drunk and he shoves a bunch of meat and alcohol down his throat to make it look like he died by choking on his own vomit. During this time, Man Soo's wife Miri discovers the guy's body in the garden and he kind of discovers the whole plot of his plan to kill these guys. And now theoretically, Mansu has gotten rid of all the paper men who are in his way. So we'll see what happens. I won't spoil what happens, but he's gotten rid of all them. All of his nemeses are out of his way, so he should get a job.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's interesting this whole section, the end of the film without revealing the actual end of the film. You know, the man sue character is really into gardening and has a greenhouse and his beautiful house that he's trying to keep even though he can't find a job. And employs a lot of like, gardening tactics in his. In his murders. Which, yes, is. It's very interesting to me. And then I kept thinking like, because I like gardening too. And I'm like, damn, gardeners could really kill somebody and never and none would be the wiser. They just really have that skill.

[Casey O'Brien]

They've got shovels, they got dirt, they could bury.

[Millie de Chirico]

People, yeah, they know how to break down roots. Like, it's like, come on. So I was kind of like, damn, that's crazy. Why aren't all gardeners murderers? But the thing about the park he soon character of this, like, obnoxious influencer. Because again, I think it all ties back to this, like, idea of this being a paper guy, like an old school paper guy. There's a heritage to it and a craft to it that I think that, you know, all these guys are proud of and they have worked there for so long and have inherited this, like. I don't know, this, like, way of. Of making things that they. That people need, that they don't know that they need and that they love and they have a lot of pride and all this stuff. And so it's kind of like this song show character is kind of like the new paper guy, where it's like, okay, I work in paper, but it's like, really, I'm the influencer and I'm traveling around, you know, acting as if I'm like the king of paper. And, you know, I'm making my money on the side from doing that. And then it, you know, as it gets revealed, he's got this incredible fucking cottage or whatever that he's, you know, living in. It very much reminded me for people who have seen hated rivalry. It was kind of like a I'm coming to the cottage type of thing. Like, it was a very fancy cottage in the woods, right, that they go.

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't understand that reference, but I think people are really excited that you said that.

[Millie de Chirico]

If, you know, you know, okay, but.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, Lisa Traeger would love that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, but, you know, it's that thing of like, okay, here's this, like, fancy place that they're having drinks in. And he's, like, looking around, being like, well, fuck, I mean, this guy's got it made. And, you know, how come I'm unemployed? And fuck, this is, you know, it's just kind of like adding to the drama of it all. And I don't know, I'm not saying you should have killed the guy. And by the way, I didn't realize this is how.

[Casey O'Brien]

How.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is exactly how you make somebody feel like they've choked on their own vomit. It was very gross.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was gross.

[Millie de Chirico]

But, yeah. And I mean, I guess again, we're dancing around the ending of the film. I think we should probably stop here.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it is interesting with the character, man sue, though, there isn't any trepidation about, like, can I really kill a man? There's none of that. He's just like, well, I should. Yeah, I'm gonna kill these guys.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I think he goes back to the titular phrase. No other choice.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's no other choice.

[Millie de Chirico]

No other choice. You gotta do it. And like, he. This is how he fucking psychs himself up to do it is he's like, no other choice. No other choice. And when you're put up against the wall like that, you do anything, right?

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

No other choice.

[Casey O'Brien]

I guess so. Well, there is a lot about alcoholism in this movie. I mean, like, how. And I do think that alcoholism is an issue in South Korea and everywhere and in business particularly, you know, so it is kind of like weaponized in this movie. I mean, there's the vinyl loving guy who's, like, drinking all the soju, and then our main guy, Man Su, he apparently, like, hit his kids when he was drunk, you know, prior to giving it up. And I don't know. Did you think that was interesting that there was so much commentary about alcoholism in this movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, I figured it was part of the general vibe of unemployment is to drink a lot. But then. Yeah, maybe it being a specifically Korean male thing, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Have you ever gone. Have you. Do you eat, like, Korean food? K barbecue. Like, do you drink Korean beer? Like, what's your. What's your take on Korean alcohol, by the way?

[Casey O'Brien]

I lived in K town for a number of years in Los Angeles, so Which, if you don't know about Koreatown in la, it is like an ethnic enclave within the city limits of Los Angeles. It's kind of near downtown. It's this huge urban area. And it does feel like you're in Korea. I mean, it feels. It's like really Korean culture is so alive in this place. I would say Korean food is maybe my favorite food. Yeah, I love Korean barbecue. I love Soon Dobu tofu soup. I love. Yeah, I love Korean food so much. And yeah, I like Korean beer, too. I usually have hike.

[Millie de Chirico]

Have you ever had a. A so mech before?

[Casey O'Brien]

No.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's kind of like trying to think of some. I guess it would kind of be like an Irish slammer in a way, because it's basically pouring a shot of soju into a beer.

[Casey O'Brien]

Kind of sounds good.

[Millie de Chirico]

I have. There's a Korean punk bar down the street from my house that serves delicious Korean food, but also cheap, so mix. And so basically you get like a little glass of Cass. That's the other Korean beer I know. And then you get a little soju thing. And I don't know, there is probably a specific way to do it, but it's like you probably. You just pour the. I don't know if you'd, like, drop the shot into the beer and chug it. I actually have done it that way. Like an Irish slammer way. Super fun, but I'VE also done the little. Just like little sippy whippies of, you know, pouring the soju into the beer. But yeah, let me tell you, that shit erases my brain anytime.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like the Men in Black neural eyes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Holy shit, dude. Like, was it for my birthday or like something. I don't know. We went to. We went there to the. To the Korean punk bar in my neighborhood and had a couple of those, and I swear to God, I was up. Like, I was like, wow, I've only had like two or three of these and I'm already like, don't even remember who I am. And it's like, was I born today? I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

You woke up working for a specialty paper company.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. I was like, I have no idea what's going on, but it was. But anyway, all of that's to say. Yeah, I just felt like there was a lot. Yeah, to your point. I'm just gonna say to your point, there was a lot of drinking in this movie, and it did make me think about getting drunk off Korean spirits and whatnot.

[Casey O'Brien]

So can I give you a little. Here's a little food hack that Trisha, my wife, taught me. So Korean ramen. Instant ramen is really good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hell yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you ever had, like, Korean instant ramen like Bulldog? I'm not sure about that one. But we would have one called. It's like by the company Nong Shim. It's called Shin Black.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Noodle soup.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like, better than top ramen. It's like, really good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Top ramen is fucking garbage.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like, way better than this. But here's the trick. It is actually spicy. You make it. You throw a piece of American cheese on top of it, and then it melts and you mix it all up. It makes the broth kind of creamy. It's delicious. It is fucking delicious.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I have fucked with Bulldog four cheese ramen. Okay. Now it comes with the little fire sauce packet or whatever. Extremely spicy. Like, I. I only do like a small dab, to be honest. But then it's like, yeah, I will. I will fucking make that shit. And then put some, like, pork belly or some, you know, like mix it in with other things. Delicious. Delicious.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm hungry.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. I want ramen now.

[Casey O'Brien]

That sounds really good. Well, anyways, really loved this movie. And I thought it was really great, really smart. I mean, I would put it up there with Parasite in terms of black comedies from Korea about capitalism.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I'll wrap up what I was hinting at earlier about the endings of Park Chan Wook movies, because I felt like this was the way the decision to leave was as well, where I feel like the movie has several opportunities to end and then it doesn't.

[Casey O'Brien]

It felt like the end of Lord of the Return of the King. I was like, oh, I thought that. I thought it was over, but it's not, actually.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. And I was like, trust me, I get it. There are a lot of good ideas here. There's a lot of different ways to end this. But sometimes I felt like, again, I felt this with Decision to Leave. I'm like, okay, here's a good spot to end. And then it just kept going here, you know? So I don't know. And I feel like to your earlier point about the pacing, I feel like maybe that is something that's endemic of Park Shan Wick movies is the idea that there's just a lot going on and he doesn't want to cut anything.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, it's certainly. There are some scenes where I was like, wow, this scene is still going on and I was never bored.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it did not feel like a typical movie where it's like, okay, we've gotten the information. We can move on, but they don't move on.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I guess to the ultimate point about it being compared to Parasite, to be honest, I think I like it better than Parasite.

[Morgan Evans]

Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And that's. I know that's controversial, but I thought it was funnier than Parasite. And maybe that's just because I feel like. I don't know. I just think that the reality is, is that I love Lee Bong Hung so much. Like, I think he's super charming and funny, and he really gets to be super funny in this movie. That it just was like, oh, yeah, I fuck with this and all the other characters. Like, I mean, honestly, the. The scenes with Lee Seung Min were the best in the movie. They were so fun and like, slapstick and just fucking, like, going for it. That I was like, oh, yeah, this is great. This really. And I feel like ultimately I know that both movies, both this movie and Parasite, maybe we should even be comparing them to begin with. But I'm just doing it because I had heard the comparison, obviously.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

I feel like this movie, I had a lot more skin in the game because it was about layoffs and it was about working in a specialized field and having pride and all these things. Of course, I was like, this is right up my fucking alley. Definitely my life experience. So I kind of had more emotional investment in.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

No other choice.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm gonna make a very broad, sweeping generalization that's probably incorrect. There's something about, you know, a lot of foreign films. I think comedy is hard to translate. Like, I've never laughed at a French film in my life, but I feel like South Korean cinema I find very funny. And I'm actually laughing. And I don't know, I feel like it's one of the few non English speaking countries that I actually think the comedy translates well to American audiences. And I think that's why Parasite was so successful. But I just find that kind of interesting. Curious, I think.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I think that they're down to clown. I think they got, like, their comic timing is a lot similar to American comic timing. Does that make sense? Like, it kind of feels like it's part. I mean, I won't say everything. I mean, I have seen, like, Korean variety shows and talk shows and stuff that it kind of veers off into, like, the cute territory, which I feel like is not an American comedy tradition, is to be cute, funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, unless we're talking about Casey o', Brien, host of Dear Movies.

[Millie de Chirico]

The cutest, funniest comedian out out in the streets right now. Casey o'. Brien. But like, you know what I mean? American humor is much darker.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And it feels like maybe that's why. Like, because these are kind of dark comedies. Right. And so maybe it just hits, you know, and we get it and it's funny and. Versus French. What is French humor about? What's the. What's the groundwork for French humor?

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a great question. I don't.

[Millie de Chirico]

Fucking. Smoking.

[Casey O'Brien]

Smoking.

[Millie de Chirico]

Being topless on the beach, eating a baguette.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's pantomime. Jerry Lewis.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know what I mean? I feel like French. I've seen some French comedies and I'm like, what the fuck is this? This ain't funny.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's. They got nothing on Irish humor. As we talked about the darkest of the humors.

[Casey O'Brien]

Love my Irish brethren. All right, well, that was no other choice. And now it is time for our chat with Morgan Evans on his area of expertise, Linda Fiorentino and the Last Seduction. All right, everybody. It's another installment of my area of expertise, and we have a great expert on the show today. It is the co writer, director, and producer of the new movie Micro Budget. We have Morgan Evans on the show. Welcome, Morgan.

[Morgan Evans]

Hey, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to do this.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just watched Micro Budget. And I really enjoyed it. I actually directed a movie, my first feature this year. So it was definitely triggering watching the movie. And it was when my wife wasn't pregnant, but we had a one year old baby. So it was sort of that balance that the main character, Terry, is going through. I just wanted to ask you, when you were making a movie is kind of. It's always painful to some degree, even when it's fun. And I mean, I'm sure you've gotten asked this already, but were there moments when you were making Micro Budget where you were like, okay, the reality is too close to the content of the movie we're making?

[Morgan Evans]

Oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Was there any moments like that?

[Morgan Evans]

Oh, so many. I mean, first of all. So for those of you who don't know, Micro Budget is like a fake documentary about a really toxic guy making an independent film with a very diverse crew and a cast and a crew who just hates him and he just sticks his foot in his mouth for like an hour and a half and he has no money and no idea what he's doing. That's the short pitch for it. So, yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, my wife, when we watched it together, she was like, I hate this man. Yeah, she said that out loud.

[Morgan Evans]

So, yeah, he's pretty bad. Yeah. There, you know, the movies about a toxic set, but our actual set was very pleasurable, like, wonderful experience. Like everybody felt really great and, you know, nobody was getting, you know, their feelings hurt or anything. But in terms of like the overlap there, for sure, like I lived at the house we were shooting in while we were making it, which was really crazy. You know, the whole movie was paid for with like my credit cards, which is a big plot point in the movie. So there was a lot of stuff that started to bleed in where I was like, oh, I really hope I'm not like terror in real life. But yeah, it's unavoidable when you make a movie about a movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, Terry is such an incompetent person and an incompetent director. And I feel like when you're directing some things, a lot of. Well, for me, I'm talking from my own personal experience. It can be very easy to be like, are people going along with my vision here? Are people, like, looking at me as an incompetent idiot? And I have those thoughts outside of just, you know, just working on a movie. But if you're working on a movie that's about an incompetent filmmaker, was there any concern that people were going to draw comparisons between the two of you while you were making the movie. Not that you are an incompetent person, but just, you know, naturally those sort of insecurities come up.

[Morgan Evans]

I mean, yeah, especially like just in terms of, wow, I hope when this comes out it's good so that people don't feel like I was incompetent and made it. Oh yeah, I made a movie about an incompetent guy. Incompetent. Competently, that would not be great. But I think people are pretty happy with the movie so far. So let's just hope that. But yeah, very much a concern.

[Casey O'Brien]

I loved it. I really enjoyed, like, I thought it was really funny. I thought it was really accurate to the filmmaking process. Like one of my favorite parts is there's a. That I feel like I recognize just from being on so many low budget movies was sometimes filming just stops because for. Because everyone thinks they're waiting on somebody else to do something. And there's a point in the movie where I feel like John Gabris character's like, wait, why aren't we filming right now? Because there's no real reason why they're not continuing to film. But that does just happen on like low budget projects where it's like, wait, why are we stopping? Oh, I have no idea. Let's keep making the move.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. I thought we were waiting on art and art's like, I thought we were waiting on wardrobe and wardrobe's like, I thought we were waiting on sound. And then everybody realizes nobody is waiting on anybody.

[Casey O'Brien]

No one's waiting on anybody. Yeah. Well, the reason we brought you in today was to talk about your area of expertise and the, the one you pitched was the movie the Last Seduction and Linda Fiorentino in general.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

What is it about the Last Seduction? Let's start with the Last Seduction First. What you said you've been really into that movie lately. What is it about that movie that you're really. Yeah, I mean, globbed on?

[Morgan Evans]

I love that movie. I love John Doll movies. I think they're like criminally underrated. You know, I'm not exactly sure how perceived at the time, but I think in retrospect now, like knowing what we know about where the business ended up and, and how those mid budget films just completely evaporated from the marketplace. For me, it feels like a thing that we're currently missing today and especially with these like very strong female leads in. In the hands of Linda Fiortino who's absolutely amazing in it. So there, you know, it's kind of this amazing neo noir, contemporary noir film that also doesn't feel like it's referencing the 1950s or 60s at all, which I find really, really interesting. Like, she's a femme fatale, but in a very, like, contemporary way for the time, as opposed to playing it, you know, like Gloria Graham or something. Like, she's got her own spin on it. And it's this very, like, 90s take on what that would be. And I think that's just a really SM thing. The way I kind of got into Linda Fiorentino is a weird backwards story I can get into a little bit if you want to hear it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Please.

[Morgan Evans]

I just. I'm the biggest Garry Shandling fan in the world. I just think that Garry Shandling is the coolest, Was the funniest guy ever. I love Larry Sanders Show. Obviously, Micro Budget is so inspired by Larry Sanders Show. And just over the course of, like, learning about Gary and just exploring the nooks and crannies of his life, you eventually arrive at this trial that happened in 2008 with Anthony Pellicano, who was a Hollywood fixer.

[Casey O'Brien]

I want to talk about. Yeah, good.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. So he was this Hollywood fixer, private investigator type guy. And Gary was essentially, forgive me if I get any of this wrong, but he was suing his manager, Brad Gray of Brillstein Gray Entertainment, due to the fact that Gray had kind of been double dipping, like, he was taking a percentage of, you know, commission from Gary's salary on the show, but he was also a producer on the show and taking money, you know, directly from hbo. And Gary realized it was, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars and sued for, like, $100 million. And Gary at the time was, like, very paranoid, thinking that his phones were being tapped and bugged and being. He was being watched and he was being followed. And of course, this trial comes out and we find out, yeah, Anthony Pellicano was bugging everybody. Like, he was bugging Sly Stallone. And there was a Hollywood reporter reporter who he, like, smashed her windshield and left a dead fish in her car with, like, a rose and a note that said, stop. And sure enough, yeah, Gary was being bugged. And then, you know, at the bottom of that wiki, just like, on a late night deep dive, it was like, and Linda Fiorentino. And I was like, the woman who was like, my sexual awakening when I saw her in Men in Black when I was seven, like, what? You know, how is she involved in this? And it was like, she had a romantic relationship with Anthony Pelicano, and she I guess. I suppose, allegedly, this is what occurred, and it sounds like it's straight out of a Linda Fiorentino movie, is that she was now having a relationship with the FBI investigator on the case and getting information from him that she was handing over to Anthony and his defense team. So, I mean, that's a 90s thriller right there. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it got. It got Rossini, the FBI agent. He pleaded. He had. He was charged and he pleaded guilty to illegally accessing FBI computers, and he resigned from the FBI as a result of this. And it's just. It is so insane, especially if you see the Last Seduction, because it seems like something her character would do in that movie. I mean, it's. It's absolutely wild.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah, it's nuts. And so I heard all about that. I. Obviously, I grew up. I'm born in 1991. So, like, men in Black was huge for me. That was such a big movie for me. She's so amazing in it. I mean, she. She's only in, like, a couple scenes, and yet it's so memorable. And then, of course, Dogma, you know, right around the same time. And she really carries that movie. And so I think I had just, like, been a fan of Linda Fiorentino without realizing, like, how big of a fan I was. And so when I got older and, like, started reading about this stuff, I was like, I should see some of her other movies. And I watched Last Seduction, and I was just, like, knocked on my ass. You know, I couldn't believe how good it was. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, she is, like, such an interesting person in general. I mean, you know, the Anthony Pellicano case is obviously, like, fascinating, but also she's very much. She has a. An edge to her as an actor that you don't see in actresses then or now. And as a person, she was kind of, like. It seemed like she could kind of take or leave acting.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, I know she. She kind of took a break in the late 80s for a while and then came back to it. And there was this interview with her where they were like, what would you do if you couldn't act? And she basically was like, I would be totally fine. I would do something else. Like, it's not, like life or death to her. And, I mean, it is like, unfortunate that, like, she hasn't worked in, like, 15 or hasn't acted in 15 years.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah, yeah. I think that there's. The reason I wanted to talk about her was not really to talk about the Anthony Pelicano thing. I. I think I really do think it has more to do with, like, I feel like she got a bad rap in a way that was deeply misogynistic. Like, I feel like she got labeled very early on, like, as difficult to work with. And it's like, I'm sorry, she's in that movie with, like, Pete Berg. Like, she's acting opposite Tommy Lee Jones. Like, there's that. You don't. Men are difficult to work with all the time, you know, which is what my movie is about. And yet they succeed and they fail upwards, and it's fine, you know, but the second it's kind of a woman sticking up for themselves on a set, it's like, you know, oh, that's the worst thing you could ever possibly do. And that's the vibe I get from her career now. Whether or not that's the reason she hasn't worked or this legal drama.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Morgan Evans]

Who knows? Or maybe she just chose to retire of her own volition. But the stuff that happened, you know, with Men in Black is really sad, in my opinion. And. And also what ended up happening with kind of Dogma and everything, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Can you, like. Can you touch upon a little bit of those things just in case people don't know?

[Morgan Evans]

Sure. Yeah. So, you know, obviously Linda is in Men in Black. She's really great in it. And if you remember that movie at all, like, the very last scene just sets up that it's gonna be her and Will Smith, that's team. Like, Tommy Lee Jones probably didn't want to do more of these. They probably got him for one. They were thinking. And then they were setting up that she would be Agent L, I think, And. And it was gonna be for Linda. Yeah, for Linda. So it was gonna be her and Jay at the end of that movie. And then when it was time to start developing the second one, you know, this is just what I've read from the press. I don't have any inside information here or anything, but is that Tommy Lee Jones was like, I don't want to work with her. And his return to the franchise was contingent on her not being involved. And then.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's. That's what I've read, too.

[Morgan Evans]

And around the same time, you know, she did Dogma. And Kevin Smith said. I actually, like, pulled some quotes here like, yeah, claimed that his experience working with her was that she created crisis and trauma and anguish. She created drama while we were making a comedy. And this is from Collider. He accused her of dodging promotional duties because a poster with her head was photoshopped into someone else's body. Now, the other thing about that is that they photoshopped her head onto, like, a woman with her, like, boobs out.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Morgan Evans]

Which feels like you should be able to get, like, upset about it. And he later, like, backtracked and apologized. It was like, I don't think I should have said that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I read this whole thing that Kevin Smith kind of was like. Because apparently during a. The commentary of Dogma too, or there was some conversation with. Why am I blanking on her name? The comedian.

[Morgan Evans]

Oh, Janine Garoflo. Jean Gravelo.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. He was like. He was like, oh, you should have been the lead of Dogma. And I think that got back to Linda Fiorentino. And he. He is better. He has since then been like, I was like, I was in the wrong and, like, apologized publicly kind of like to Linda Fiorentino. Apparently they, like, reconnected or something and. And have made amends about all that. But yeah, I read that same stuff that Tommy Lee Jones was like, which is interesting that he was like, I don't want to work with her because I'm like, did they even have scenes. I only remember scenes with her and Will Smith together. So it's, like, kind of interesting.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah, it's interesting. And I think in general, she just provides such a perfect snapshot, I think, about the. The 90s film industry and what you had to do to navigate it in order to have a career. And also, like, the decisions that you make that either set you up for success to be a megastar or that can prop you up and, like, keep you in the mid, the middle here, or the decisions you can make that, like, could absolutely tank your career. Because she's had a lot of, like, interesting peaks and valleys. Like, I was reading that she was originally offered the Kelly McGillis role in top Gun and, like, turned it down because she thought the script was too pro military, which I think is, like, badass. Like, that is so awesome. But, like, you know, that would have been a huge role for her and could have, you know, absolutely, like, shot her into superstardom. You know, Tom Cruise and everybody was, like, courting her, really hoping that she would do it. And so it's like, those little decisions you make can really pile up. I think that she was up for Basic Instinct as well, the Sharon Stone role. And I think there was, like. I read that there was somebody made some horrible comment to her, like, you have a great ass, but, like, your breasts aren't or something. Like, just like, that's why we're not casting you. And it's like, insane. Insane. Yeah, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I, like, I'm a little older than you, but I. My big introduction to her was through her very early stuff, like Vision Quest. When I first saw the movie Vision Quest, I was like. Because in that movie she plays. I mean, it's kind of crazy to think about it in context of like, this being a movie about like a high school wrestler. Right. Played by Matthew Modine. It's like a teen movie, very like John Hughes esque.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right?

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And she's like this drifter that ends up staying with the Matthew Modine character and his dad. And she's older and this guy, this young guy in high school falls in love with her and she's just cool. She's like a cool older lady and she has like. She's kind of sardonic and tough and awesome. And I was like, I want to be her. She's so cool. And she, like, had a cool look in the movie and everything, but so she kind of got introduced to me as that kind of person, this kind of like, drifter, badass type. And then I saw her in After Hours as this kind of like downtown weirdo artist, you know, and so I was just expecting her to be, you know, like, I was going, oh, she's kind of like this cool 80s actress and she's, you know, pretty but spunky and like, kind of has like a little edge to her. So I don't know, I think that that is definitely like an alluring type to be in Hollywood, especially when you're a young woman. And I don't know, maybe like, there was a lot of expectations. It seems to me that there was a lot of expectations around her and sort of who she could be. And I feel like Sharon Stone's probably like a pretty good comparison because between Last Seduction and Jade especially, you know, I think people really started to see her as kind of this like, erotic thriller adjacent actress or something. And it seems like she was more than that. And maybe that's kind of what happened with.

[Morgan Evans]

With her career.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, she's so fascinating because I feel like the characters she plays and every time she's on screen, she sort of is. It feels like there's like a mysterious darkness going on within that character's past or something. Or like there's an allusion to another life that's much darker and frightening. And it feels like those types of characters that she plays sort of matches her real life personality. She's like a mysterious person person too. And it sort of makes these movies she in and the characters she portrays. It feels like kind of part of a larger narrative and it feels like it brings a depth to these movies that are maybe not don't earn that depth, but just from her like presence in the movie, it makes it feel more mysterious and dark than it actually is. You know what I'm saying?

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. And I also feel like, you know, it's interesting to think that, you know, like today we have. And this is not to disparage anybody currently working today or anything, but it's like we have like the Sydney Sweeney type. Right. And like the 90s also like headed in that direction. And it's interesting to think about like a world in which these leading actresses like, aren't like, she obviously is very alluring and like very good looking and like, like she's playing a sexy role, but it's in a way that's like not submissive. It's not in a way that like you could ever as a man, like have any sort of control over. You know, this is like, this is a like individual who's like on their own path, like cut in. In the way that like kind of some of these pre code like 50s movies were, you know, like a Katherine Hepburn type thing, even though the performances aren't really similar, where you're just like, yeah, that's like a badass, you know, who's. Who's like really domineering in this kind of awesome way. And it does, it does make you wonder, you know, what would a film industry look like if like those are what our leading women were a little bit more like, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I was trying to think of like, is there even a comp today with like actresses that are working now? Maybe Zendaya, like, I could see that.

[Morgan Evans]

Like, you know, it challenges, I think.

[Millie de Chirico]

A little Dakota Johnson maybe.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. Interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because I actually have heard Linda Fiorentino being compared to Lauren Bacall, which I think is actually really good. Yeah, that kind of. I don't know. Like there's a, like, I think it is the darkness, a mysteriousness, but a sensuality, a sexuality too. Right?

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And you know, I think it's interesting. I think like, I also was thinking about it in terms of the era that she was making movies like the Last Seduction and Jade, about there being these actresses like her that were out there doing movies like that, like Sharon Stone, Rebecca De Mornay. There's like a whole host, Patricia Arquette. Yeah, absolutely. And like some of them have stuck around and some of them haven't and her kind of like, you know, out of the spotlight a little bit. And it's just interesting. And I think you're right. There's a moment where I don't know if Hollywood really knows what to do, especially after they turn a certain age. Right. Because I feel like that was something that happened with Linda Fiorentino over time, was just that she was getting older. And I don't think anybody really kind of knew what to do about that fact, which is it extends to pretty much all actresses, but especially for the ones that were playing sexier roles earlier in their career, you know, it's just kind of like. I don't know, it's interesting to me. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I mean, you. You brought up Zendaya and you brought up Dakota Johnson, but I feel like the thing I find kind of alluring about Linda Fiorentino, it's like she's from South Philly. She's kind of a. Like, she comes from. She's like a nobody, you know, and it's like all actors now, it seems like they need to come through some sort of, like, Disney factory or be the child of a celebrity already. There's no. We don't get these kind of interesting people off the street like Linda Fiorentino anymore.

[Morgan Evans]

Well, Hollywood's not great at making stars anymore is the problem. You know, like, they really are. So they just want to mitigate risk so much that they kind of pick, like, whoever, you know, on a spreadsheet you can get a slight bump from. Due to, like, a number. Right. And so it ends up being like, okay, television ratings, social ratings, you know, all these different things as opposed to. Oh, just like, great, you know, performance. But what's interesting about her, like, coming from, like, nowhere, just like South Philly or whatever is. It's like that does feel like a 90s thriller type. Like. Like all of Linda Fiorentino's thing is like an invention or a mask or like, we'll never really know who she is. You know, it's all this absolutely. Performance for me. What's so interesting about her as well is just like there's just these key moments that you can point to to watch a career sort of get capped or. Or just like, not reach its pinnacle. And one of them, of course, is that the general consensus seems to be she would have won an Oscar for Last Seduction. I don't know if you read anything.

[Casey O'Brien]

At least have been nominated.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. And. And so what ended up happening with this film was like, I mean, she was the breakout star of It. Everybody loved her. Like, Roger Ebert was, like, head over heels about it, and essentially the. The production company was, like, going bankrupt and made some deal with hbo, who, unbeknownst to the people who actually made the movie, like, started airing it on hbo. But then it was a huge hit in Europe, and so the distributors were like, oh, okay, we'll put it back out and we'll see what's happening with it. And then, you know, it did some. Did some okay business. But it was too late for her to get an Oscar nomination because it had already aired on television, which is really, really sad. So I think just, like, you can point to a couple things. It's like, maybe turning down Top Gun, maybe not. Not getting an Oscar nomination for this, and then I think losing out on, like, a big franchise like Men in Black, like, you know, these. These types of things are, like, how a career really takes off, and each one of those steps of the way, like, the system kind of, like, failed her in some ways.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, it is interesting. And I mean, you know, someone like you, Morgan, you just made Micro budget, you know, and how, like, what kind of. What. What kind of movie would you like to make for? Have you even thought about, like, what kind of movie your next movie would be? You know, hopefully it's not one where you have to take out a bunch of credit cards again and make a. You know, but like, yeah, as you grow as a filmmaker and as your, you know, your movies hopefully get bigger and bigger, do you sort of see a trajectory, like, where you want to go with your next one?

[Morgan Evans]

A little bit. Like, I, you know, I write professionally, so I'm at Warner Brothers now in development on, like, a big DC superhero thing. But, you know, when I write things on spec for myself or hope to make, you know, that I'm a little more, like, precious about. But I'm kind of doing both things at once. I always say, like, George, I love that George Miller made, like, Happy Feet and Fury Road. Like, you know, I've written, like, an R rated, you know, very, like, raunchy comedy. And then I've also wrote, like, a kid's Batman movie, you know, so it's like, I kind of just want to do both. But it's funny that we're talking about this because the last three scripts behind me, those are like, a pile of, like, all my specs or whatever. The last three I've written have been in the vein of 90s erotic thrillers. And. And. And one of them is looking pretty likely to get made in May of next year.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fantastic.

[Morgan Evans]

Really great director attached. And it's a. It's kind of a con artist Spanish prisoner meets, you know, last seduction without any of the sex. But it's. It's cool. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You think Linda, I mean, she hasn't done a movie since 2009. Right. You think she might be.

[Morgan Evans]

I mean, if this podcast didn't just, like, remove me from her list of people. She strike out a list of, like, never working with them, and I probably just got added to it. But I. But I'm only doing this because I love her and I think that she. She got kind of boned by the industry. And, you know, despite the, you know, little gray area with the Pellicano stuff, you know, I think she really deserved a bigger, much bigger career.

[Casey O'Brien]

What did she do wrong? Taking advantage of, you know, stupid men.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's no crime. Yeah.

[Morgan Evans]

Right?

[Millie de Chirico]

Love that.

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

For me and her. So. For all of us.

[Morgan Evans]

I mean, it would make such a good movie, but that she's so specific and great that no one could play her. She'd have to play herself.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely. Well, where can people see Micro Budget? Where? Is there anything else you want to plug before we get out of here?

[Morgan Evans]

Yeah. So you can go to microbudgetmovie.com to find a list of theaters it's playing at. We're going to be doing at least New York and LA starting in. I'm not sure when this comes out, but that'll be out in January. January. It's looking likely that we'll do San Francisco and hopefully Austin and some other places like that. The website will have everything. We'll be on Video on Demand in March and then we'll have a Blu Ray shortly after that. So, yeah, microbudgetmovie.com that's your home base for all your micro budget movie news.

[Casey O'Brien]

There we go. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Morgan. This was great. And you can watch the Last Seduction. That's awesome. Free on prime right now too, if anybody wants to check that out. But yeah, Morgan, really, thanks for being on the show. We really appreciate it.

[Morgan Evans]

Thanks for having me. A big fan. I've been listening to it like all week in prep for this and it's been a pleasure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ah, appreciate that. Thank you. All right, that was great chat with Morgan. Morgan, thanks for coming on the show. Everyone check out Micro Budget. It's really funny. I really enjoyed it. And if you're a filmmaker, I think it will resonate with you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Check it out. Okay, now it is time for employees picks. Where we have a film recommendation based on the theme of the discussion. Millie, why don't you go first?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I am recommending maybe the saddest movie of all time, and that is the Vittorio De SICA movie from 1952, Umberto D. Now, I'm not recommending this movie because it is about a dog, ultimately. And we, as we talked about in the opening, I've just lost my little bestie. To be honest, I couldn't watch Umberto D right now. I'm just recommending. I, I, I can't watch that shit right now. Are you kidding me? I'm too weak and fragile with grief. But the reason why I'm recommending it ultimately is because this is also a movie about people who have lost. I love it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Why is this happening for those listening balloons just appeared in Millie's Zoom for some reason. I have no idea why.

[Millie de Chirico]

Apparently, the AI is so good now that if you talk about umberto D from 1952, the balloons just pop up on the Zoom like, hooray. Incredible. But this is a movie that's also about, like, people who are, like, economically disenfranchised and are kind of being put out to pasture. And it's like, you know, a movie about survival, economic survival, and trying to retain the things that make them feel human, which is like, you know, in the case of no other choice, it's this house, you know, that Mangsoo, like, grew up in. And in Umberto D, it's about his dog, Flyke, which, you know, it's like his only connection to goodness in the face of this, like, fucking terrible poverty. And, you know, this is an Italian neorealist film. So it's really gritty and sad, obviously. But I don't know, I just, to me, I was like, I know this is a little bit. It's not a dark comedy at all. It's actually the saddest movie of all time. But I think that there are similarities between Umberto D and no other choice in a way.

[Casey O'Brien]

So sure. Very good. I am going to recommend a movie near and dear to my heart, which I may have been one of my stat picks already. I'm going to be real. I may have recommended this on another episode, but I think it fits with this movie and the movie is Fargo from 1996. Because I think both movies are about a man who take a course of action that is insane. But they feel like if we can just accomplish this horrific act, then we'll be smooth sailing after that, there's some messiness in between. But if we can get to the end game, our lives will be great. You know, the ends justify the means. And I feel like William H. Macy's character, Jerry Lundegaard from Fargo, he feels like if he can just get past this rough patch, then everything will be good. And it don't work out that way in Fargo anyway. But I love Fargo. It's one of my favorite movies, and I think there's a darkness to that film that I feel like no other choice also embodies. So my choice for this week is Fargo from 1996.

[Millie de Chirico]

Good, good, Rick.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, well, that's our show. I hope you all had fun. Yeah. If you want to write into our show, if you'd like film advice or you need a wreck or if you have a gripe, a grope, a consensual grope, or a regret, a grit, please Write in to DearMovingToSureRightMedia.com youm can also leave us a voicemail. Just record a voicemail on your phone, keep it under a minute, and email it to dearMoviesExactlyRightMedia.com We've been getting some good ones lately, Millie. We have a backlog. I'm excited for the voicemails, so thank you to everyone who keeps sending them in. Please continue to do so. And like I've said in the past, if you write in, you'll either get read on the show or I will respond personally. That's my guarantee. So do that. Do with that. What you will.

[Millie de Chirico]

Follow us on social media, please. We are at Dear Movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook. We have personal letterboxd handles. He is at Caseylee o' Brien and I'm Decherico and Dear Movies, I Love youe is on the iHeartRadio app. It's on Apple Podcasts. It's on all of the major platforms, wherever you get your podcast. So come find us, rate and review the show. It would be really great. Tell a few friend. Tell a fucking friend that you listen to our podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

Tell a damn friend, please. We tell a crush. Because then they'll listen to it and they'll be like, I'm attracted to this person sexually.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right? Find out somebody who like really wants to win you over and be like, listen to my. The podcast that I listen to. And I mean, that's what we need. We need your support. So please do that. And that is all.

[Casey O'Brien]

So that is all. Millie. Next week, what's the movie we're talking about? I'VE never seen this one before.

[Millie de Chirico]

We are gonna watch a classic in my eyes, one of the finest Burt Reynolds movies of all time from 1974, the longest yard, which is timely because we got a little sporting event coming up.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, we do. Now, we talked about being invested in mainstream culture that's printing money essentially, and super successful. And how can you morally be a part of it? I think that is my conundrum with my love for football, my absolute devotion to football and the Super Bowl. We'll get into it.

[Millie de Chirico]

We will. Because I don't know much about football and I'm. You're going to have to hold my hand during this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, my team and your team have a historic beef that we'll get into. I hate the Atlanta Falcons eternally. Oh, and we'll. We'll discuss it next episode.

[Millie de Chirico]

Very interesting. Okay, stay tuned for that. And Kasey, wonderful episode today. I.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, Great app, Millie. Thank you for talking about Sophie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Of course. And listen, I had no other choice but to enjoy myself and appreciate that.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I also had. I had no other choice but to have a great time with you because you're a hoot.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you very much.

[Casey O'Brien]

Take care, everybody.

[Morgan Evans]

Bye.

[Millie de Chirico]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie de Chirico, and produced by my co host, host Casey o'.

[Morgan Evans]

Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Cherico.

[Millie de Chirico]

We love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodbye. Time.

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[Millie de Chirico]

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[Millie de Chirico]

At cvs. It matters that we're not just in your community, but that we're part of it. It matters that we're here for you when you need us, day or night. And we want everyone to feel welcomed and rewarded. It matters that CVS is here to fill your prescriptions and here to fill your craving for a tasty and, yeah, healthy snack. At cvs we're proud to serve your community because we believe where you get your medicine matters. So Visit [e-mail] or just come by our store. We can't wait to meet you. Store hours vary by location. Janice Torres here, and I'm Austin Hankwitz.

[Morgan Evans]

We host the podcast Mind the Business.

[Millie de Chirico]

Small Business Success Stories, produced by Ruby.

[Morgan Evans]

Studio in partnership with Intuit QuickBooks.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're back for season four to talk to some incredible small business owners.

[Casey O'Brien]

The big thing about working at tech.

[Morgan Evans]

Is that it's ever evolving, ever changing.

[Millie de Chirico]

Everyone's a rookie.

[Morgan Evans]

That's how fast the industry is changing. So what I'm really excited about is to be part of that change. So listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.