Nothing To Sneeze At

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Dear Movies, I Love You"
Episode: "Nothing To Sneeze At"
Release Date: November 5, 2024
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts

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Introduction

In the poignant episode titled "Nothing To Sneeze At," hosts Millie De Chirico and Danielle Henderson of Dear Movies, I Love You share significant updates about their podcast journey, culminating in heartfelt discussions about their favorite films centered around the theme "Meditations on Aging." This episode not only marks a major transition for the hosts but also delves deep into the nuanced portrayals of aging in cinema.

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Major Announcement: Podcast Conclusion

[00:54 - 04:50]

Millie De Chirico and Danielle Henderson open the episode with an unexpected but heartfelt announcement: they will be ending their podcast, "I Saw What You Did," on November 26th. This decision stems from evolving personal lives and career goals rather than any discord between the hosts.

• Millie:
  "We are in a place where we're coming to the end of basically a contract, and we talked about what we wanted to do. We both really want to focus on our respective careers." [02:00]

• Danielle:
  "This is a testament to our friendship that we were able to talk about it openly. I want to keep our friendship strong and not let the podcast cause any resentment." [02:47]

The hosts emphasize that their decision is made while they are still enjoying the podcast, ensuring that the end comes at a high point rather than dwindling interest or energy.

[04:50 - 07:36]

They express gratitude towards the Exactly Right podcast network, highlighting its support and the permanence of their past episodes. Danielle mentions,
"Exactly Right is leaving every episode. They are very kind to us and supportive." [04:50]

Millie reflects on their journey,
"We started this podcast during lockdown, and it's been amazing to see how we've evolved over the past four years." [05:44]

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Upcoming Live Show

[07:36 - 09:34]

To commemorate their journey, Millie and Danielle announce their first and only live show scheduled for November 7th at the Tara Theater in Atlanta, Georgia.

• Danielle:
  "Come celebrate with us or commiserate because we don't know what the outcome of the election is at the time of this recording." [07:44]

The live event will feature a Q&A session, games, and a group discussion of a selected movie, providing a final in-person celebration of their project.

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Life Updates: Balancing Careers and Personal Lives

[10:21 - 22:56]

The conversation shifts to personal updates, with both hosts sharing their life changes:

• Millie:
  "I'm splitting my time between New York and LA, managing responsibilities in both locations." [02:47 - 04:50]

• Danielle:
  Discusses her move back to LA, her positive attitude towards the transition, and her involvement in a new project with Raphael Bob-Waksberg. She elaborates on the challenges and joys of balancing life between New York and LA, highlighting her gratitude for having a supportive network and a lucrative career that allows her this flexibility.

  "I'm lucky that I'm in a well-paid career. It's allowed me to manage responsibilities in two different places." [20:08]

They reflect on the volatility of the entertainment industry, acknowledging past uncertainties and expressing excitement about their future endeavors, including potential new podcasts, books, and TV projects.

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Theme Introduction: Meditations on Aging

[26:21 - 82:45]

The core of the episode revolves around the theme "Meditations on Aging," where Millie and Danielle discuss two films that poignantly explore the nuances of aging.

1. "Only Lovers Left Alive" (2013) by Jim Jarmusch

• [27:35 - 43:42]

Millie introduces "Only Lovers Left Alive," a film that melds vampiric lore with deep philosophical musings on existence and aging. Directed by renowned filmmaker Jim Jarmusch, the movie stars Tilda Swinton and Tom Hiddleston as Adam and Eve, centuries-old vampires navigating modern decay.

• Millie:
  "Jim Jarmusch was one of the first directors I got into during high school. 'Only Lovers Left Alive' feels like a meditation from an elder punk statesman." [31:06]

• Danielle:
  Explores the film’s depiction of environmental decay and the characters' struggle with modernity, emphasizing Adam's misanthropic tendencies and his reliance on pure blood sourced meticulously to avoid contamination.

  "Adam is living in a dilapidated Victorian brownstone in Detroit, rejecting modern technology and the decay it brings." [43:43]

The hosts delve into character dynamics, including the tragic demise of Anton Yelchin's character Ian and the burgeoning tensions introduced by Eve's sister, Ava, played by Mia Wasikowska.

• Notable Quote:
  "This is a love letter to old souls... something that should be revisited in middle age." [56:48]

2. "Away from Her" (2007) by Sarah Polley

• [60:14 - 79:53]

Danielle presents "Away from Her," a film adapted from Alice Munro's short story, directed by Sarah Polley. The narrative focuses on Fiona and Grant Anderson, portrayed by Julie Christie and Gordon Pinsent, as they navigate the challenges posed by Fiona's Alzheimer's diagnosis after forty-four years of marriage.

• Danielle:
  "After 44 years together, a husband deals with his wife's Alzheimer's, leading her to move into a care facility and fall in love with another man." [60:24]

The discussion touches upon the film’s emotional depth, exploring themes of memory, loss, and the complexities of long-term relationships. Danielle shares a personal connection, relating the film's portrayal of caregiving and memory loss to her experiences with her own grandmother.

• Danielle:
  "Grant's realization of loneliness and his reflections on his life's choices make this a profound meditation on aging." [72:30]

• Notable Quote:
  "The definition of living well as you reach middle age or beyond... What does it mean?" [59:15]

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Closing Remarks and Future Plans

[80:35 - 82:45]

As the episode draws to a close, Millie and Danielle reiterate their gratitude to their listeners and provide information on how to stay connected post-podcast. They hint at a potential bonus episode and announce their next theme, which will explore movies like "Parasite" (2019) and "Triangle of Sadness" (2022).

• Danielle:
  "Thank all of you for being here with us. You've made it so much more fun." [25:59]

• Millie:
  Encourages listeners to follow their individual social media accounts and stay tuned for their future projects.

---

Conclusion

"Nothing To Sneeze At" serves as both a farewell and a reflective homage to the art of cinema through the lens of aging. Millie De Chirico and Danielle Henderson eloquently blend personal narratives with cinematic analysis, offering listeners a rich tapestry of insights and emotions. As they transition to new ventures, their final discussions on "Only Lovers Left Alive" and "Away from Her" encapsulate the enduring impact of films that thoughtfully examine the human condition.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "We are in a place where we're coming to the end of basically a contract..." — Millie De Chirico [02:00]
• "This is a testament to our friendship that we were able to talk about it openly." — Danielle Henderson [02:47]
• "Jim Jarmusch was one of the first directors I got into during high school." — Millie De Chirico [31:06]
• "This is a love letter to old souls... something that should be revisited in middle age." — Millie De Chirico [56:48]
• "The definition of living well as you reach middle age or beyond... What does it mean?" — Danielle Henderson [59:15]

---

For those who haven't listened to "Nothing To Sneeze At," this episode offers a compelling blend of personal reflection and cinematic critique, making it a must-listen for enthusiasts eager to explore the intersection of film and the aging experience.

Transcript

[Danielle Henderson]

Hey, guys, Just a reminder that we are doing our first ever live show at the Tara theater in Atlanta, Georgia on November 7th. Ticket information is available at all of our social media sites. We are at isawpod on Instagram, bluesky, Twitter and Facebook. Be there. Don't be square. Be round and soft. And at our show.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to an. Welcome back to another episode of I Saw what yout Did. My name is Millie de Chirico.

[Danielle Henderson]

I'm Danielle Henderson.

[Millie de Chirico]

And we're the film podcast that comes on pretty much every week.

[Danielle Henderson]

You're like, kinda. Kinda every week. Pretty much sometimes twice.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sometimes twice a week.

[Danielle Henderson]

But that is. That is changing.

[Millie de Chirico]

Mm.

[Danielle Henderson]

I think we should let the folks know that we have an announcement. To me, we do.

[Millie de Chirico]

So we are. In a few weeks. In a couple of weeks, we will be signing off on. I saw what you did.

[Danielle Henderson]

We are ending the podcast on November 26th.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right. You know, obviously, like, not the greatest news. Maybe this is a shock to some of y'all, but, you know, I think it's. It's time, wouldn't you say?

[Danielle Henderson]

I agree. I think that we started this podcast four years ago. We have had so much fun with it. We're not ending because we're not having fun with it. But our lives are really different now. And, you know, our goals are really different. Our time, the way we need to spend our time is really different. And it's just. It's okay to end something when it's when you're on the highest part of the wave, I think.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, totally. So many good things left at left at the top. Whether or not we're leaving at the actual top is a little, you know, a little kiddity. But, you know, we feel like we're in a good place. I mean, here's the thing I want to stress and, you know, I. This is not some weird, like, we're breaking up. There was, you know, bad vibes, you know, like we're suing each other or something. This is not anything like that. You know, I just think that we're both in a place where, you know, we came to the end of, you know, basically a contract, and then we kind of, you know, talked about what we wanted to do and, you know, you really, really want to focus on your writing. I mean, you're, like, living in LA right now, so, you know, I think it just felt like a natural stopping point. Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

I agree completely. And I think that, you know, and it was. It's, I think, more of a testament to our friendship and Not a sign of us breaking up or, you know, suing each other, going crazy. It's really a testament to our friendship that we were able to just kind of talk about it. And I was the first one to kind of say, like, hey, I think my life is changing in a way that, you know, my time needs to be used in a different way. I'm not sure if I can have space for this. And you were totally receptive to that. Like, that is the kind of friend you are, the kind of person you are. And I think it's not just because of me that we're ending it, but I was. I felt totally comfortable broaching that. That subject with you because we're. We're friends. We're actual friends. And I want to keep our friendship. I don't want to keep this going to the point where, like, one of us is feeling resentful or weird about it. So I think that it was just really, again, to me, it's a beautiful thing. It's a nice thing that we are able to maintain and even, I think, deepen, like, this has really deepened our friendship, having this podcast. But that is definitely not. The friendship is not the reason. Like, it's truly time. Time management. I can. I can give a couple of specifics about work things, not too much, but I'm kind of splitting my time between New York and LA for the foreseeable future, and, you know, managing stuff in New York with the house and grandma and the cats, and then managing stuff out here where I'm getting kind of bigger jobs and more responsibility. So that's kind of, you know, just a decision that we made together. And again, we know it's a shock to a lot of you, and it'll be very sad, but the good news also is that none of the episodes are going anywhere, so. Exactly right. Is leaving every episode. They're very kind to us. They've always been really supportive and helpful and just a great network to be with. And they first. First thing. One of the first things they said when we gave them the news was, well, the episodes are not going anywhere, so we are very thankful to. That they will be there for you and for us, because maybe we'll finally go back and listen to a lot of the oldies in the beginning.

[Millie de Chirico]

For sure. Yeah. I know that we, like. We always, like, joke about how when we do a podcast, we just, like, leave our bodies while we're doing it, and then we just, like, never remember what we say, but here's a chance for us to actually Remember what we have said over the past four years, which is good. And it's nice to, you know, like, even go back like towards the beginning of it and just how different the world was. I mean, we started this podcast during lockdown, like, like the very beginning of COVID The election had happened. Like it was so crazy. I was like, we had done the pilot in person in la, but then we, we were doing the podcast. Like I was like in my parents guest bedroom. You were in. Still in la, I think when we first started. So it's, it'll be cool to kind of like go back and just look at the evolution of what we had done in the past four years.

[Danielle Henderson]

I think so. And it's a lot. It's a four years is nothing to sneeze at.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And you know, to that point, I mean, doing a weekly podcast is a lot of work. And you know, when you said, hey, I'm, I think I'm gonna, you know, focus more on my writing and my career, I was like, absolutely. Like, to me it wasn't a moment of like, oh my God, what's going on? It was like, oh, I totally get it. So. And you know, the other thing too that I want to stress is that, you know, we're, we will continue doing things on our own. Like you're gonna, you know, we both have sub stacks. I'm probably gonna start another podcast at some point. I'm pro, I'm definitely gonna talk about film again somewhere. And you know, you're gonna continue publishing books and you know, writing for TV and movies and stuff. So it's like we're not like going away completely off the face of the planet. So.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I will, I'm so excited. I cannot wait for you to start another film podcast or any podcast, whatever you decide to do. Like, I'm in such support of that because I just think you need to be out in the world in a big way. You're fucking great and you're pro and you're just a fucking delight and you're hilarious and like you need to be, your voice needs to be part of the conversation. So it's one of the things I'm most proud of with this podcast is, you know, it's again, nothing to sneeze at that. We are two women of color in the world of film criticism and discussion who had a long running podcast and that doesn't happen very often. So yeah, we've been.

[Millie de Chirico]

I totally agree. And yeah, so, you know, it's not totally sad. I feel like this Is we're good. This is like a good thing. And yeah. So, you know, the best thing that we've got right now is that we've got the last couple episodes. We have a live show. I don't know if you want to maybe tease the live show a little bit. We've announced it.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah. If you're listening to this right now, it's November 5th. It's a very possibly tense day because it is election day.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, God.

[Danielle Henderson]

But you can either voted.

[Millie de Chirico]

So I forgot that there was an actual election day. Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

I did my mail in ballot and I'm like, oh, wait, that's still happening. So you can either come and celebrate with us or commiserate with us because we don't know at the time of this recording what the outcome is.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just like the first episode.

[Danielle Henderson]

Just like the very first episode. The first episode.

[Millie de Chirico]

What the fuck? That's so crazy.

[Danielle Henderson]

We are great at bookending things.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yes.

[Danielle Henderson]

Perfect. The timing is perfect for that. But we are. We are. We're having a live show. Our first and only live show, first and last, on Thursday, November 7, at the Tara Theater in Atlanta, Georgia. Come if you can. Come celebrate with us. Come party with us. There will be Q and A. There will be games. We'll discuss one movie together. And it's just going to be a good time and a way for us to kind of celebrate in person the ending of this great project. So if you're able, if you're in the area, please come through. If you're not in the area and you're upset that we didn't tell you about this earlier, sorry. We are beholden to different sets of rules and, you know, again, you can support us personally. There will be chances for you to come and see us and support us personally in the future, but I think this is going to be a good time. At the Tara Theater, tickets are available on their website. We have all the info in our link tree on all our social media and we'll continue to make announcements for the next couple of days. But come party with us on Thursday if you're in the area, of course.

[Millie de Chirico]

And, like, there's not. We're not playing a movie. So it's just us basically the entire time. And whether or not that appeals to you, I hope it appeals to you. It'll be fun. And I think, yeah, being in Atlanta together is always really fun. And we'll get to meet everybody and. Yeah, I'm excited. I'm excited.

[Danielle Henderson]

Me too. I love any event that comes with a warning that's like, they will be there. Watch out.

[Millie de Chirico]

We will be in person, being ourselves. Hope that's okay. Yeah. And then of course, you know, the last couple episodes we're gonna actually do kind of like a fun. We did this after, like on our one year anniversary, we did kind of a clip show where we kind of went back and revisited some old episodes and, you know, just kind of like laughed at us and, you know, talking about like random as we always do. So that'll be coming out. And yeah, we've got a couple of great surprises for the last couple ups. So hang with us.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's gonna be good. It's gonna be good. And otherwise, you know, we're doing all right.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I was gonna say, do you. Can I ask? Okay. So I know you talked about this on like your social media, but I don't think we had talked about it yet. So you are back in LA right now?

[Danielle Henderson]

I am, I am.

[Millie de Chirico]

Never thought I'd see the day, but I'm actually very excited by it too. So.

[Danielle Henderson]

You and me both. Which was very short sighted of me because my literal career is here.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well.

[Danielle Henderson]

I have to go back to la. And then everyone in the world's like, but you do if you want to work.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I know, I hear that. So.

[Danielle Henderson]

But yeah, I'm in la. I've been here for a few weeks and I, I strangely, like, I came into it with a positive attitude because I knew I needed to. And like I said earlier, I'm kind of looking at this being my life where I'm going to be in LA most. Like I'm going to be splitting my life between New York and LA for a while. Yeah. So I can't hate half of my life, you know, I can't just be like angry and upset and hateful about half of the way I'm spending my time. So I decided it's just ride it out, go into it with a different attitude. Cause when I first moved to la, I did not want to come here. I was happy in New York. I came here for work and just kept working and staying. So now I thought, well, it's different and it feels better actually to be here in the way that I'm here now. I think part of it is that I really like my job. My job is great. I'm working on the new Raphael Bob Waksberg Show. He created BoJack Horseman, he produced Undone, Tuca and Bertie. He's just great. He's fantastic. And the room is wonderful. Funniest people I've ever Met and we're telling a really deeply interesting and heartfelt story. So that's part of the reason why I'm loving it is that I actually really love my job. And I'm just a writer. Just a writer on the show. But it's great. So it's easy to be here. It was easy to transition here. I had to realize also that I have a lot more friends here than I had when I lived here. I met a lot of people that are good friends of mine now after I left. So. Yeah. So I'm just kind of enjoying the space and the time and how different it is. Instead of being angry about how different it is, I decided to be interested in how different it is. I'm staying in a part of town that I haven't really explored yet. So that makes me feel kind of better that there's other places to look. I'm not really hanging out in the Silver Lake, Los Feliz influencer territories, which makes me feel better about la. Just being around adults makes me feel better about.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I dig it. And then right after, you know, this job is gonna carry on for a few months and then I've got other things lined up that will probably keep me here or at least have me back, you know, by the end of next year. And they're exciting too. So I think that, again, just the fact that the work itself is great is a big change for me. But also that, um, I just had to change my own mind about it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And it just. It doesn't feel good to be a hater. Like, I know that I am and I fight against it all the time, but I'm like, no, I'm not really a hater. I don't want to be full time. I want to be discerning, I want to be opinionated. But I don't want to just objectly hate things. Except for Seattle. That will not change.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was going to say, I think Seattle's firmly decided on it. Feels like, firm.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah. If you ever see me in Seattle again in my lifetime, something has gone wrong.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sorry. People who live in Seattle who are nice.

[Danielle Henderson]

But unless, who knows, maybe I'll have another personal revolution and be like, Seattle's such a great place. I doubt. I doubt it. I doubt it deeply.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and like, yeah, like, not actively.

[Danielle Henderson]

Hanging on to it, but I'm also not letting it go. I'm being very realistic.

[Millie de Chirico]

Total. Listen, like, just because you've, you know, decided to lean towards positivity doesn't mean that there aren't Like a few very firm hated things in life. You know what I mean? Like you can be a positive, you know, person who experiences joy and still be like, I actually don't with that still. Even though I like everything else, it.

[Danielle Henderson]

Makes way and I think it's good to be discerning in that way because it makes room for the things that you do actually give a shit about.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Danielle Henderson]

But also like, what really also helped me change my mind was when you came back here last time and we're talking about how much fun you had and what you were leaning into. And I was like, wait, it's true. Like there's a lot of like the fact that I can just go out and buy a book or go see a movie is not something I have in my day to day life in New York.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, of course.

[Danielle Henderson]

You know where, where I live in New York. So just like remembering that. No, there's a lot of good things about being here. There's events, there's stuff going on, the food is amazing. Like just to have access to that stuff is really.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, really good. Oh, it's. Yeah, it's really great. And I gotta tell you, I think, you know, part of, you know, maybe the feeling that is changed from back then and now is that you are bi coastal. So it's not as if like if things get suddenly very dark and dreary for you in la. You also live on the other side of the country. So it's a thing which is also very glamorous, I have to say. Bi coastal people, you're very glamorous. You have the best of both worlds and we all want that for ourselves.

[Danielle Henderson]

So, you know, it's wild. I realized. Cause I just going home for the first time this, this coming weekend after the show, I'm gonna go home for the weekend. And I realized, oh, I'm one of those people I was always curious about who just gets on the plane with a backpack. I have all my clothes at home, I don't have to bring anything.

[Millie de Chirico]

Very alluring. The single woman traveler who is in the Sky Lounge with very little luggage, but looks really chic. Who's that lady?

[Danielle Henderson]

Who's that? A lady. And then they're like, oh God, she smells like sweat and she's still gross. She's not as alluring as we thought.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I doubt that. And even myself, even though I want that for myself, my eyes always gravitate towards the. And I will say it's only the women. I think I've talked about this like, if I see a single guy traveling, I'm just like, whatever, like, boring, you know? But I'm like, oh, who is this Carmen San Diego woman who's all alone and she's only has back?

[Danielle Henderson]

A man who's traveling alone just feels like, oh, he's leaving his family.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like, he went out for milk or cigarettes and he hopped on a plane.

[Millie de Chirico]

He's wearing his company's, like, branded fucking four imprint vest. He's going to talk about, you know, like, I don't. Spyware, software, whatever. It's like, you know, I don't know. He just. It's like, very boring. But when you see a person like you, you're like, what is she? Is she like a. You know, like a spy? Is he a writer? An international writer? But I have to say, like, I sense a very different vibe from you than when, even when we were both living there together. And I'm actually, like, so stoked for you because again, like, it's, you know, never too late to, like, change your mind about a place if you've had a bad experience. And honestly, that. That is very common, by the way. Like, having a bad experience with something and then, like, having to return to it, you know, sometimes can just be a totally different vibe, Totally different thing. And. And like I said, it's like, maybe it's the feeling that you're not there forever. Forever where you can, you know, hop back and forth and go home. Obviously, you're going to see grandma, you're going to see the kitties and all that stuff. So, yeah, I mean, this is. I think this is fucking wonderful for you.

[Danielle Henderson]

And that is also a deeply important part of this, is that I am able to go home every two weeks, three weeks, or as you know, and I have big breaks, you know, kind of locked in there. So the fact that I have a house sitter who I'm super comfortable with is huge. Like, I could not do this without her because there's no way I could bring three cats here. Not just because I can't find a place to rent that would allow three cats, but because that boy and Peach are fucking nuts. They're feral still. Like, they're crazy. That boy set off the fire. He set off the home alarm again this morning. I thought I had it all worked out, and I wake up to a notice that's, oh, your alarm's going off upstairs. I checked the video. He climbed on top of the fireplace upstairs because I moved the sensor so that it wouldn't be, like, super active. He Climbed up and was basically dancing and doing parkour in front of the fucking sensor. And I'm like, this cat is wild. Yeah, so, yeah, so I know that it's, you know, as a caring cat mom, I know that it's more comfortable for them to stay at home. So I'm glad that I can do that. And I'm going to come back every couple of weeks, see my grandma. My brother is helping out. You know, he's seeing her a little bit more while I'm gone, but. And she thinks I'm insane for coming home to see her. She's like, why don't you just stay there? Like, I'll see you in April. And then every other word out of her mouth is, I could be dead tomorrow. And I'm like, well, that's why, that's why I'm coming back. You fucking mean it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Messaging is off, grandma. That's a little off.

[Danielle Henderson]

Get your shit together. But also, you know, I, I mean, there's no other way to say this, I guess, but I'm lucky that I can do this because I'm in a well paid career. Like, I really have have to acknowledge that, you know, I've been doing this for like a decade, just about a decade, and I've really changed my life and my class and, you know, all of that has changed with the work I've done and continue to do. So I'm lucky that I'm able to hop on a plane every couple weeks and come back that I can pay rent here and my mortgage in New York, that I can, you know, all of it, all of it is just due to the fact that I'm in a lucrative career and that was not always the case in my life. That wasn't. So I'm smart about finances, but I also realize that this is all fully tied together, that my ability to be here and do this and kind of hold down the fort in two different places is based on that.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I mean, to be plain ass truthful, I mean, our industry has been so volatile for a couple of years and we both went through extended periods of unemployment and you know, like it was, I mean, you know, I think we both had talked to each other like off podcast about should we just like go be pharmacists or something? We were like, should we just change our careers entirely? Because we weren't even sure if, you know, the industry was going to bounce back between like, just like the post Covid stuff, but also the strikes and you know, like whatever, like bullshit technology pivots and everything. So, you know, I'm just extremely happy that you're working again and that, you know, you're talented and that you're able to, like, lean into your talents, you know, and obviously making a good living and being able to have this flexibility again. Because, honestly, like, yeah, I mean, I think we were both, like, wondering if we were gonna be able to ride all this stuff out. So. Yeah, I'm like, stoked.

[Danielle Henderson]

Talking to neighbors down the street. Like, you need someone to shuck your corn or harvest your wheat. Like, I don't know what to do. Harvest your wheat. Teach me how to use a thresher. Like, I didn't. I was really uncertain about whether. And it's every industry I work in, so. Oh, you could just write a book. Well, publishing is in the same. Oh, the same tank.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, gotta be honest, Podcasting is too. Everything's in the tank. Anything entertainment related is in the tank. I mean, I can't even think of an industry that's probably not in the tank right now. Except for maybe pharmaceuticals. I don't know.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely. But. And they're probably due for some reckoning.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, totally. Right. Well, listen, I'm sorry. Extremely proud of you. I'm happy. The vibe is amazing. I'm loving this. I'm loving this, like, return to LA positivity. Like, we're working. We're, you know, on a good note here with the pod. We got fun coming up, live shows and the future, which is so exciting. It is exciting.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I just. I love you. I love you so much.

[Millie de Chirico]

You too. And, you know, I mean, we're still gonna talk all the time, even though we don't talk on Mike and talk about, like, you know, poops and pen shocks a lot and things of that nature. We'll still talk.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, no, we are talking about poop and pen socks a lot for sure. First combo is actually when we stop recording today. I'm just gonna call you and be like, poop.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're gonna call the text group Poop and pen shocks a lot. And change. Change the avatar to John Wick or something.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, no, it's too true. And I'm looking so forward to this live show. So just to wrap up, live show, Tara theater in Atlanta. I believe it starts at 7:30. Check the website. Get your tickets at the Tara Theatre website this Thursday, November 7th. You can also keep up with us individually. I have a substack called Orgasms and Revenge. And my only social media is my Instagram, which is just my name, Danielle. Henderson, so you can keep up with us individually. Millie, you also have a substack.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, it's called Professional Sweetheart. And I am on. Mostly on Instagram, but I. I'm on. I'm still on Twitter and things. I don't know why. Of course I'm on TikTok, but I. But I don't use it. I just, look, I don't publish. I just. Look, I'm a lurker. But, yeah. And, you know, I'm working on some stuff, like doing some live events in Atlanta and, you know, like I said, might be doing a new podcast. Trying to figure that out right now. So maybe next year sometime there might be something new for me, like in the film world.

[Danielle Henderson]

But yeah, yeah, follow her social so you can get. Be the first person for any announcements of when that's happening. Yeah, I agree. I'm psyched. I've got a TV show, possibly have a TV show coming out, a film and a book next year.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I'm really happy that we're in a good spot and I'm really happy about our podcast and the things that we've done over the past four years. Honestly could not imagine doing it to anybody else at all.

[Danielle Henderson]

And thank all of you. Our audience has been great. And thank you for telling your friends to listen. Don't stop listening. We still have new episodes coming out, but thank all of you for being here with us. You've made it so much more fun.

[Millie de Chirico]

Absolutely. Speaking of fun, not my movie this week. Not mine either. Okay, so on that note, we're gonna get into our episode theme, and this was your idea. Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Why don't you tell people what the theme is?

[Danielle Henderson]

Our theme this week is Meditations on Aging. Interesting to look at aging on. On screen. And we've chosen some pretty great representations of that, I think.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, no, this is exciting. I've been wanting to talk about the movie for a very, very long time, and I have just become re. Obsessed with it over the past, like, six months, eight months. You know, we've talked about my casting call for a shitty little vampire, and I can't help but feel like subconsciously this was. This movie was in the back of my mind. I don't know why, but. Yeah. And then, of course, with your film, it's so funny because the, like, I thought I had never seen it, which was so embarrassing. But then the minute it came on, I was like, oh, I saw this when it came out. And oh, my God, it's so good.

[Danielle Henderson]

It is so good. It's so Tender. It's so interesting by a filmmaker that I love, that we've already talked about on the pod quite a bit. But, yeah, it's really, really good episode this week. And you're going first?

[Millie de Chirico]

I am. So, without further ado, let's get into these movies. So my movie for the theme, Meditations on aging, is from 2013. It was written and directed by the Goat, Jim Jarmusch, and it's called Only Lovers Left Alive.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's the way they treat the world. And now they've succeeded in contamination their own blood, never mind their water.

[Millie de Chirico]

Only lovers Left Alive.

[Danielle Henderson]

Did you know that they got Ethel Merman to sing the song, the theme song for that movie? I didn't know that. That was quite the pull from Jarvis.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm sure he was like, you know, what I envision is a. A little, like, you know, song and dance number with Marilyn Monroe, and, you know, she's a vampire and she's walking down a staircase and she's got a suitcase, and she's like, I'm the only lover left alive. This movie is, like, pretty much the absolute opposite of that vibe. When she said fucking opposite of that vibe.

[Danielle Henderson]

Which is why I think I'm laughing so hard. Oh, God.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. So this. Have we ever talked about Jim Jarmish?

[Danielle Henderson]

Have we done passing? I don't think we've done a movie of his before, though. What do I know? We could have done all of them. I don't remember.

[Millie de Chirico]

We dissociate every time, so we don't know.

[Danielle Henderson]

Well, I mean, we've mentioned him, of course, but I don't think we've.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, we've definitely mentioned him. He is a big hero of mine for a very long time. He was one of the first directors that I got into when I was in high school, and I was, you know, kind of, like, moving into these, like, cinephile worlds, you know, I think it's. That's pretty common for people our age, is that I feel like he was kind of one of the first people that you figure out when you, like, go to film school for the first time or whatever, right? Complete. I. The first movie ever saw from him was his movie Stranger Than Paradise. And I absolutely fell in love with it. Like, I thought. I mean, by that. I mean, by that point, I hadn't really seen much, I guess, independent cinema, maybe. And, you know, that whole. The vibe of the movie, the actors who were musicians, black and white, it's kind of a road movie and, you know, screaming Jay Hawkins, like, all this stuff I Was like totally under its spell. Right. And then of course, I think the next movie I saw was down by Law. Very similar. Like, you know, John Lurie stars in that one too, and Tom Waits. And you know, it's so. It's that thing where I was like. I felt like I had fallen into a world that he kind of has and still has, where I think it's like he, you know, obviously employs a lot of non actors or musicians as actors. There's always kind of this like rock and roll feeling. And I'm including this movie, which. Yeah, you know, I think, and this is my opinion, I don't know what you think, but this was like one of his best movies that he had done in a while.

[Danielle Henderson]

I completely agree.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

I think that it's also, it's interesting to me as someone who's been following his career for so long to see the growth that has happened, not just in his storytelling and in his ability as a director, but that he's been given bigger and bigger budgets, which he's done more and more with. So the fact that this movie looks so amazingly good is also, I think, one of the. It's one of his best looking movies of all time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I totally agree. And you know, it took him a while to get the funding for it, but eventually he did. I think initially it was supposed to have been Tilda Swinton and Michael Fassbender. And then of course, Michael Fassbender was replaced by Tom Hiddleston at some point.

[Danielle Henderson]

But Fassbender was like, oh, I don't get to show my wang in this. Forget it.

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't get to play a absolute creepy weirdo. I mean, you know, listen, we love him. We love Michael Fassbender on this podcast. We talked about him a lot, but.

[Danielle Henderson]

His role, not a negative.

[Millie de Chirico]

But yeah, it felt like even though he would be playing a vampire, technically it wasn't dark enough for him. He was like, absolutely. Gotta go creepier. The thing about Jim Jarmusch, you know, again, I want to kind of stress this because I feel like this is like what is. This is what the movie's about. So like, Jim Jarvis was like, you know, a big fixture of this kind of like no wave, like late 1970s downtown New York scene, right? And there's a lot of people that are kind of tucked into that scene. And it's not just filmmakers, but it's artists, it's musicians, you know, like, you know, James Chance and Avis Poe and like, you know, all these people that were kind of existing in this like artistic space in New York. And. And I think that that is what infuses his movies honestly is just like his kind of punk rock past, if you will. And this film feels like the meditation from like the elder punk statesman, you know what I mean? Like knowing what we know about him, knowing where he comes from, knowing his vibe, knowing his previous movies, you're like, ok, this is his. Like I'm looking back on my life and this is how I am. I'm like an older punk now. What, what do I feel? How do I navigate the world? Right? And I think that really affects me because when I first saw this movie, I loved it, don't get me wrong. But I was. This was like over 10 years ago and now that I'm older, I'm like, oh fuck. This hits in a way different way.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh yeah. Especially this kind of lethargy about what captures your interest now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, my eyes just got really big when you said, I just.

[Danielle Henderson]

Millie's soul just left her body.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was like, yo, that's profound.

[Danielle Henderson]

Didn't mean to ruin your life.

[Millie de Chirico]

But no, listen, I love getting wrecked specifically by you on this podcast. So it's. No, I actually enjoy it. I enjoy the deeply profound thought experiment that you bring to the podcast.

[Danielle Henderson]

But it's true and I think it enhances that. What you were saying about being kind of an elder statesman of your life and of your. The genre that you're familiar, that you are known in and most famous for possibly is that you get to reflect. You know, you don't always have to wait till the end of your life to reflect. I think it's actually useful to reflect on your life at multiple stages. But it's. I can, I can see those, those mechanisms at work here too. And I liked it. I liked it a lot.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, and part of. Hopefully this isn't too much of a tangent, but I'm gonna, I gotta say it because it's front of mind. Part of I think what aging has been for me most recently and maybe why I've wanted to kind of live in this world or like re watch this film and think about this film lately is that I, I mean, I've talked about this on previous episodes, especially in regards to tick tock. Right. Because I'm just like, I'm this, you know, now middle aged person who had a cool life, it continues to have a cool life, does cool things. You know, I was very much into like music and movies my entire life and you know, I've done a lot of things. And I'm proud of what I've done. And, like, now I think I'm at this point where I'm like, okay, so now you're in. In the world as a person who has this past. And I don't want to. I say the word legacy. I'm not trying to, you know, be, like, pompous about it. I'm just saying legacy just because it's the word. Right. And you're like, who am I in relation to, like, the younger people? Like, like, when I meet people, you know, do they know who I am? Do they. You know, like, I use this example in school because, you know, I'm with. I'm always accessing young people. And, you know, either I'm teaching or I'm taking classes alongside of them. And I'm always like, they're so much younger than me. Like, early. Like late teens, early 20s, a lot of times. And I'm like, who do they think I am? Am I, like, a weird old lady that, like, teaches her class? Or do they know that I used to be a like. Or that I do film stuff? Like, what. What is the reference for, like, this. The stuff that I've done? And so sometimes, like, people can get really caught up in thinking about that, or they're just, like, obsessed with, like, how they are with young people and, like, whether or not they're cool. And, like, you know, they're constantly, like, telling younger people, like, oh, guess what? I used to do this. And then I was this. And, like, you don't know anything. I was fucking jumping off of speakers. And the fucking, you know, Woodstock 99. And, you know, whatever. Like, I don't necessarily want to be that person where I'm constantly, like, shoving my legacy down younger people's throats.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I also am, like. I question, like, you know, well, what's the appropriate amount of, like, vibe to bring to the young folks? You know? And then you can also be completely misanthropic, like, the people in this film.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely.

[Millie de Chirico]

That they're just, like, everything that exists now. We are. We're locking ourselves away. And we. We know we're awesome and we. But we can't relate to any of those folks.

[Danielle Henderson]

We could not share our awesomeness with anyone.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And we haven't been able to forget Century.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

You know what's interesting, too? Since. Since I just recently started a new job with people I've haven't met. I only knew one person. I've worked with one person in the room before, but it's like eight brand new people that I have never met before. And I'm kind of finding that in re. I have, you know, and introducing yourself to someone and we're in a room where we're telling stories of our lives all day and kind of making. As we make up stories and it's kind of an interesting elder stateswoman move that I'll just kind of casually mention something that I've done. And everyone's like, what? Yes, I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I lived in Alaska for four years. And they're like, what the fuck?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I'm like, yeah, I did this. Yeah, I've got a master's degree. Yeah, I did that. And it's just like, you know, kind of mentioning things as a one off and it me not because it's. To me it's not a big deal. It's just like that's what I've done has really kind of forced me. Their reactions have forced me to reconsider that. Like, oh, maybe if I did take stock right now, I'd realize that like I have done a lot of cool shit and I have. I don't know how I'm perceived, but I have to think about myself in a cool way, I guess.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, well, because you don't want to be ashamed of things that you've done. I mean, honestly, like, you're fucking incredible, boss bitch. Like, it's just that feeling of like, there's no need to hide that we're cool, you know. But there is a moment where I'm just like, I don't. I just, I guess I just don't want to be the person that's just like, you know, like constantly having to defend their cool life or something to young people. Cause it's exhausting, quite honestly. And we had done so much of that in our 20s and 30s because we were women, women of color in these fields where we were constantly having to assert our knowledge and our passion and our talent that at some point I'm just like, God damn. I'm so fucking tired of like proving myself or telling people that I do things like can I just live, can I just like walk into a room and be comfortable with it? But it's hard because some of these kids to talk to you in any kind of way. Like, let me be, let me be the first to tell you. Like, I. The other day I was on a shoot with some, some folks and they were much younger than me. Like much, much younger than me. And I have not told these students That I do this podcast. I haven't told them that I wrote a book. I haven't told them pretty much anything because I'm just like, where's the time? Like, I just don't want to be that person yet. And it's just very early days anyway, so we're just trying to get to know each other. But you know the ways that they were kind of like, I had to like bite my tongue because they were just basically like treating me as if I was like a PA or something like that. And I was like, at some point over the course of the several days of the shooting, I just casually say to them, like I said something along the lines of, yeah, I promised myself that once I got to a certain point of my career that I'm not just gonna do shit for free all the time in this like, very debased way. And then they were like, oh, you have a career? And I'm like, yeah, yeah, I guess I didn't tell you that, like I'm not just like a middle aged woman that wandered into a university and just started taking classes, film classes for the first time. You know what I mean? Like, it hit them that I was like, oh, I have a past. I have something to where I'm not just gonna run around like getting them coffee or something, you know what I mean? And I'm like, huh, okay. I guess the balance.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, if I did just wander into a university, I wouldn't be taking this class. Like, I'm here for a reason.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I, But I truly, I held my tongue for a long time. And then it was like at the very end where I just felt like I was like, well, I gotta say something. Cause these kids are talking to me in any kind of way.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yep.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I gotta, I gotta stand up for myself because I am tired and I am not standing for 14 hours today. Like, I've gotta, gotta tell them what's up. So anyway, I love it.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, I think that it's. And I can easily see how if people are talking to me any old way, I would be very much the characters in your film. Like, you just don't even deserve to be around my shine. I'm going to put myself in a room for 155 years.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I'm going to go drink my bag of blood and flip a double bird to everyone outside of the window. Yeah. So like, to that, to that end, right, like this movie is, you know, kind of like a, you know, a different take on the kind of classic vampire tale. Right. It's very funny. It's very meditative. I guess that's why I picked it for the theme. But then there's, you know, elements of the kind of old kind of vampire mythology. Right. So like I mentioned, Tilda Swinton and Tom Hiddleston are kind of the stars of the film. They are named Adam and Eve, and they are vampires that have lived for centuries. Stories. Right. Adam, the Tom Hiddleston character, is living in a dilapidated Victorian brownstone in Detroit. He is essentially a recluse. I mean, he's a musician. He's very intellectual. You know, you look inside of his house and it's just piles and piles of, like, vintage instruments, old recording equipment, books, you know. You know, there's a wall in his hallway that's like all of the greats, right? Like his sort of wall of fame. And it's just all these, like, people from history and our culture and stuff. And he's slightly suicidal, actually. He's a lot suicidal.

[Danielle Henderson]

He's completely suicidal.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, you know, is sort of like he's a misanthrope. I mean, honestly, he's just constantly sort of bemoaning this modern life. He locks himself away in his old vampire house. You know, he hates technology. He's, you know, complaints about sort of this, like, environmental decay, which I actually think is a big part of the film, is sort of like the ways in which we've, like, destroyed our environment.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh. And they. The way they comment on it, not just in Detroit, but through human bodies where, like, when they talk about how blood is bad now because everything we put in our bodies is bad for us now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

How is a vampire supposed to survive on microplastics, y'all.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, exactly. Can't get that. Can't get that in the drink. And I think Detroit is quite. Is a quite obvious perfect choice to kind of use as that. The example of this, because it's like, you know, Detroit in that way was, you know, the former glory of the car town, and then it's now just sort of like in ruins. And, you know, so there's a lot of messaging about that, about environmental decay. Right. Yeah. So the interesting thing is, is that, you know, he's a musician, you know, and he's kind of this, like. I don't know, I was kind of thinking like more like a Brian Wilson type of person, where it's like he makes music, he never goes out. But young musicians are, like, constantly trying to access him. Like, they come to the house just to try to catch a glimpse of him. You know, it's kind of like a Howard Finstery, Brian Wilson type of scenario. Right. There's a young man who is played by the actor Anton Yelchin, who.

[Danielle Henderson]

Rest in peace.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. I. Yeah, I. Like, the last time I was in LA actually was at Hollywood Forever, the cemetery where his, you know, his memorial is. And it just reminded me, like, how short and wonderful his life was. And it's just sad that, you know, he had a. He died by accident. He was 27 years old, and he. It was a terrible accident. He was, like, basically like his car sort of pinned him against his own house. Right. I mean, that's kind of what happened. Yeah, there's a lot. There's details about it online, obviously. But, yeah, when I saw him again, I was like, oh, God, I miss him.

[Danielle Henderson]

God, he was a very dynamic young actor who I think would have done amazing. He did amazing things in his short life would have continued to really blow us away.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I know. Very sad. But in this movie, he plays a character named Ian. And Ian is kind of like Adam's only link to the outside world, right? And Ian, you know, he looks kind of like Kurt Weill, the musician Kurt Weill. He's like, long hair, kind of a rocker. And he comes to the house and kind of procures Adam, like, vintage guitars and anything else that Ian might want, including a wooden bullet at one point, because, again, Adam is suicidal. So he's like, go get me a wooden bullet because I'm a vampire, right?

[Danielle Henderson]

Ian is the weirdest plug of all time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. Ian is like the hipster vampire plug to end all. So, you know, at very early on in the film, like, Adam is alone in Detroit, and Eve, his wife, is living in Tangier, right? And they're kind of living separate lives, you know, she's like, I know he's depressed. I know, you know, he's a misanthrope and whatever, but we're kind of living separately. And then they connect one night because he's just like, I need you. Like, come see me. You know? And she's just like, are you serious? Like, I hate flying to you. You know? But he's like, you gotta come. You gotta come see me. Like, you know, which.

[Danielle Henderson]

And it's never really explained why they're living apart, but you get that it's because they're just. Even though they're married and they've been together for hundreds of years.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Sometimes they need that break, sometimes they don't. Look, what do I always say? I don't want you in my face all the time. Imagine being a fucking vampire. You got to sometimes put an ocean between you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and that's. That is. I think the. One of the most interesting components of the film is that they have been together forever. They're vampires. Hundreds of years, three weddings. Their relationship is so embedded that they can live on opposite sides of the world. And it actually is so beautiful to me that, like, they call each other and just be like, all right, I need you to come see me. And she just does. She gets on a plane overnight because they can't travel during the day. They're vampires. And it's very, very sweet. Like, when she shows up and they kind of reconnect and I don't know, I just was like, God, that is so beautiful. Like, I don't know why, I just feel very. That part of the movie is really affecting to me. And then, of course, they're back together in Detroit and. And then you just really realize, like, oh, they're this like old punk rock couple, Right. And this is where I think a little bit of the Jarmish kind of comes in, right?

[Danielle Henderson]

Because totally. Because they've been punk rock through every iteration. Like, you know, when they were. I think what's translated is when they were first starting out, you know, they were into Christopher Marlowe and not Shakespeare. They were into, like, you know, they've always been on the outskirts of the cultural relevance.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And like, I couldn't, like, I swear, the minute I saw the movie again for the first time, I had to look up Sarah Driver, who is Jim Jarmusch's long term partner. She's also filmmaker. And they have had, like a long time relationship. And like, I couldn't help but think, oh, this is them, right? Like, this, this is who they are. And I. And I don't know that for like 100% fact, but it felt that way, right? It's like this old cool punk rock New York couple and this is how they live because they've been together forever and it was just. It's just very sweet. But so, you know, they're in. They're in Detroit. They kind of are, you know, double down on this, like, kind of insular existence. You know, they both can't stand the modern world. They're listening to old records. They're just kind of like, together. Meanwhile, the way that they sustain their vampire livelihood is that basically Adam has to go to the local hospital at night and get bags of blood from, I guess, a scientist there who's played by Jeffrey Wright. And is that right? Jeffrey Wright plays that character? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's basically like, yo, who's the creep that comes in and buys blood for me? But, you know, like, this is the way it's got to be, because they can't feed on actual people. Because again, microplastics and four locos and people's, you know, bloodstreams, they're like modern. Modern people are so poisoned by all of the. That they're like, we can't even risk it. We've got to go get pure. The good stuff, the pure blood from the. From the hospital. So this is how they're existing. And then one night, Eve's little sister Ava shows up to town, and she's in from la and she's this, like, young party girl, club girl. She's played by the actress Mia Wasikowska. And, you know, she's just kind of this, like, pixie fun girl. She's also a vampire, obviously, and she's very young and very impetuous, right? And Adam cannot stand her. Like, he's like, who is this young, you know, idiot? Like, you know, he's a misanthrope. He's like, you know, an old punk rock. He doesn't want to hang out with the. With that kind of girl who's like, I'm living in LA and I'm sort of like, you know, whimsical and blah, blah, blah, right? And so she kind of stays with them for a little bit. And, you know, again, she's just sort of like. She starts hanging out with Ian, the Anton Yelchin character, and then they're just kind of like, having a little flirtation at the club one night. And then, of course, because she's a dum dum, she kills Ian. She basically eats Ian, who is like my only connection, the only young friend that he has. He's like, oh, well, thanks for killing.

[Danielle Henderson]

The guy, because you're my only source of joy.

[Millie de Chirico]

The only hipster guy in a band that I will fuck with. Like, now he's just dead and we have to throw him in a vat of industrial waste in Detroit because it's just out in the river or whatever. So that's kind of like what happens. I mean, there's also a character who's kind of Eve's old friend, played by John Hurt, who is wonderful. His name is Christopher Marlowe. You know, he's kind of, again, a vampire, old intellectual. And then, of course, like, at some point, he ends up drinking the contaminated Blood and, you know, starts dying and passes away. And so it's this kind of reiteration of sort of the. Like, again, like, nothing is really safe in the modern world, and these vampires are trying to exist, and they're trying to preserve their, you know, their livelihoods, their spirits. And it's getting harder and harder, you know, as time passes.

[Danielle Henderson]

But I also love that the Christopher. So Christopher Marlowe was based on the real Christopher Marlowe, who was a lot of intellectuals think, wrote all of Shakespeare's plays.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right.

[Danielle Henderson]

So it's kind of funny to me that it's like, he's still alive, he's still writing. He's not showing anyone his work, and he's not taking any credit, but he's like, fudge this, dude. I live forever. Like, I'm cooler. He's like the more punk rock version of Shakespeare.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe that actually adopts some of that Christopher Marlowe energy. Just like, not say anything but to people, but just sort of like, be like, oh, no big deal. I wrote all of the Shakespeare shit 100%. He's like the big star of vampires or something. He's very like, I did this incredible thing, but I'm too based to ever tell people in a big.

[Danielle Henderson]

I'm all about it. I'm like, lean into the mystery man if you want to. If you want to talk, we can talk. But otherwise, live in mystery. Live in wonder.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let them wonder who did all this. Well, and, like, again, you know, there's a lot of references in the film to music writers, artists, you know, directors. That's kind of the joy is kind of like Easter eggs of, like, little things, which is fun. If you're like, a big nerd. If you're like a culture nerd, you'll love that kind of stuff. But ultimately, this movie, I think the reason why it just affects me so much now is because I feel like I'm like an older person, too. And it's like, you know, you can't help but be drawn to a movie like this. And it's like, especially if. I mean, this is like a love letter to old souls, right? If you're a type of person who just, like, has always loved older shit, that you just, like, love old writers, old musicians, old music, old movies. This is gonna be like the fucking catnip to end all catnip. Like, it's just really like a movie like that. And you know how there's this instinct for people like us to just want. Like, you just feel alienated from the modern world. Right? Like, you go on TikTok and you're like, what the fuck is all this? Right? And it's really like a way to kind of say, you know, you do take comfort in older things and, like, maybe you don't want to be a vampire, like a misanthropic vampire that, like, never leaves the house type of thing. But it also is like, there's a pleasure in that, that I really love that. Like, oh, man, wouldn't it be great to fucking find my vampire and just hide away from this, like, stupid, shitty world and just double down on all the cool shit we like and, you know, just be like, you know, like, housed away from the shitty world that. And the people that don't get you. You know what I mean?

[Danielle Henderson]

And. And truly to. To. To make your community small enough. Because there. There are also references in this film that he doesn't like. Adam especially does not fuck with other vampires. Like, apparently there's other vampires that he could be friends with. He's like, I don't talk to them.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hell, no.

[Danielle Henderson]

This is not about, like, I. I'm not even close to wanting to be in their lives. So it's really about making the. To me, about making the choice to be more solitary. And he seems to spend his time working on his art, his music, his love of guitars and kind of the historical importance of that stuff to him. But then you can also see that too much of that makes it impossible for him to connect with other people.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So you have to kind of always have that balance, you know?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, of course. And then, you know, he feels the lowliness of it. I mean, he's obviously calling for his wife because he needs connection. So you can't completely go underground alone and just savor the shit that you like. You gotta, like, at some point, come up for air and experience life. And, you know, it. It is that meditation. I keep saying the word meditation because it's the name of our theme, but it is like, this is definitely a movie that you should revisit in middle age and just be like, huh, yeah, this is hitting real hard. Hitting different.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, it does. It does. And it's not. I don't know. I really loved. I don't think I've seen it since it came out, but I really loved going back to it as where I am now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, me too.

[Danielle Henderson]

Because, you know, it's 10 years, 11 years since I saw it the first time. And when I first saw it, I also thought it was very funny. Like, it's comical how it's a low key comedy, but it's very funny. And it's really the comedy hits more for sure. But it really just struck me that kind of the point isn't to live forever, it's to live well. And what does that mean for you? Living well could mean, obviously different things to different people. But is it not being with your partner? Is it living in an interesting place? Is it being surrounded by shit you like and not talking to anyone else ever again? Like what?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

What's the definition of living well as you reach middle aged or beyond?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And if you're the type of person who appreciates a reference, like at one point Adam tells Eve, well, we're in Detroit. What do you want to do? Do you want to go to the Motown Museum? And she's like, no, I've always been more of a stacks girl.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is your movie.

[Danielle Henderson]

This is for you.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is for you.

[Danielle Henderson]

There's also in one scene when they're on the couch at his place in Detroit, there's a Dirt Bombs album leaning against the wall.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yep.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I'm like, oh, these references are so good.

[Millie de Chirico]

So good. Great, great music. Wanda Jackson on the soundtrack. Many other things. I think Jim Jarmusch makes his own music for the soundtrack too, man. Love this movie. Could talk about it all day. So honestly, like, it was a great.

[Danielle Henderson]

Pick for the theme. A great pick in general. I'm so glad we got to go back and watch it again.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. All right.

[Danielle Henderson]

Same with my movie, but for very different reasons.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. Oh my gosh.

[Danielle Henderson]

So my film was released in 2007. The screenplay is by Sarah Polley and Alice Munro. It was directed by Sarah Polley. My movie is away from her. Half the time I wander around looking for something, I can't remember what it is. Everything is gone. Now, this one is another stone cold bummer. But I think it's the most. One of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like truly, even when at the time that I saw it was nowhere near middle age, but I was just like amazed by the beauty and care exhibited in this relationship. So my one sentence Synopsis is after 44 years together, a husband has to deal with the consequences of his wife's Alzheimer's diagnosis, which includes moving into a home and falling in love with another man. Very interesting. Now, I would be remiss if I didn't mention that it's unfortunate to me that this is based on a short story and co written by Alice Munro. If you've been paying attention to the literary world at all. Over the past year, you'll realize there's been a lot of controversy about Alice Munroe. She died in May of this year at 92, I believe. And in July, two months after her mother's death, her daughter published an article in the Toronto Star about how her stepfather abused her, was sexually abusive and abusive to her, and that her mother, Alice Munro, knew about it and chose to stay with him.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow, I didn't know that.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah. Like, actively chose to stay with him. So you can. And, like. Like, her daughter told her mother what was going on. And. Yeah, so Andrea Skinner, very, very brave of her because she. And she. Her revelation of this, like, the fact that she lived through this because she was sexually abused at the age of nine, and that she lived with this for all of her life, but that she also lived with this for all of her mother's life, because Alice Munro is a very, very popular writer. Very well revered, critically interesting. Like, critically well revered. And she let her mother have that. As far as I'm concerned. She was graceful in not telling her story earlier. I don't think it could have been me, put it that way, but there was, to me, a real grace in her doing that. It's painful, I think, even more so to realize that she was holding back for so long. But, yeah, that's, again, doesn't change my feelings about this film. But I just think, again, I would be remiss if I didn't mention and the story it was based on and that I have my own complicated feelings about Alice Munro now, who's a writer that I used to, you know, really love and adore, but now that I know kind of more about her as a person, I'm not sure that I can grant her the same level of respect. So lots of arguments out there about it. You can build a whole intellectual hobby about how people are dealing with Alice Munro in the wake of her death and this revelation. But the story is gorgeous. This movie is gorgeous. We have. Our main characters are Fiona and Grant Anderson, played by Julie Christie and Gordon Pinsent. Julie Christie, who we've talked about in the podcast before, probably best known for. I mean, she won an Academy Award for Dr. Zhivago, but even before that, you know, she was in movies like Darling, and, you know, she was in Fahrenheit 451, don't look now, and the movie that we covered on the podcast, McCabe and Mrs. Miller.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

So Julie Christie's stunning career. Absolutely gorgeous. Like in this film, always gorgeous. And her husband is played by Gordon Pinsent, who's a Canadian writer, actor, producer. And it just kind of in the beginning, what I love about this film is it's just kind of a small scene of what their life is together and the slow revelation of facts. So we learn that he is a professor who had retired from his university 20 years ago, and they've lived in this cottage on a lake ever since. And they kind of, you know, they go cross country skiing together. And her memory loss is coming in stages. So first it's that they're washing dishes together and she doesn't know where to put the frying pan. She puts it in the freezer. Then she forgets how to pronounce simple words like wine. And then she actually goes out cross country skiing and gets lost and doesn't know how to get home. So they're facing the fact that something is definitely happening. Like they're not being obscure about it. But he's really reluctant to put her in any kind of care facility. So she's the one who kind of makes up her mind and says, it's time for me to go. Like, the more she's reading about Alzheimer's, the more she realizes, yeah, it's time for me to go. But they have such a beautiful life together. You know, they kind of read books to each other by the fire and it just seems like a very tender, loving relationship. What I love about the movie though, is that it might start out that way, but once she moves into Meadow Lake, which is the care facility that she goes into, you realize two things. One, their relationship has not always been this caring and loving and attentive. And also that in her, you know, in the midst of her illness, she has fallen in love with another man who is a short term resident. She's. She's a permanent resident, he's a short term resident, and she hardly remembers her husband. So it is a very interesting turn. And one thing that I'm really paying attention to this time, like, now that I've watched it, and there's somebody with memory issues in my life. You know, my grandmother has dementia. I was paying attention a lot more to, like, well, what is Meadow Lake like? And I gotta say, they really nailed it. And we've talked about Sarah Polley before. She is a fantastic and very thoughtful and unique director. We talked about her movie stories, we tell about her mother's background. Very interesting documentary, but she's just fantastic. And looking around the kind of care facility as they were showing it, you see different levels of Aging. And, you know, some people, like, there's this woman that walks in, and there's just a row of walkers in front of a door. She doesn't know which one is hers. There's a son kind of walking with his mother, and she's kind of got that repetitive thing going on. As Grant is getting a tour of the place, you're realizing that the stages of aging for Fiona are going to be a little bit different because she has this. She has Alzheimer's. So it's not just straight up, she needs to go here because of age. She's going here for an illness that age will affect. But it just. You know, I couldn't help but think about how much this replicates my own life and having to put my own grandmother into a care facility. And it really mirrors it. Like, I did the same tour. I did the same walk. You know, I saw the game room and the common room and her room. And, you know, it was just. It was very affecting this time because I've been through that experience now, not with a partner, but with a loved one. And, you know, this is kind of a great director there. Her name's Madeline, and she seems like she knows everyone. She gets along with everyone. But she tells Grant right away that new residents cannot have visitors or phone calls for the first 30 days to give them time to settle in. Now, to me, that feels very arbitrary to them, the way they describe it, as he strikes up this friendship with one of the nurses, Christy, you kind of realize that, like, it could just be for their ease, that they could, you know, transition people in easily. But for whatever reason, he can't see her for 30 days, which is, again, they've been married for 44 years.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And they'd never been apart that long.

[Danielle Henderson]

Never been apart that long. And it's also. It's never directly addressed. But they don't seem to have children, so it's kind of like their life has been about each other for 44 years. And there's this really crushing scene where Grant is kind of sitting on the couch in the dining room, and he's just watching everyone sit alone after their families leave. And it is crushing. It's truly crushing for him to realize that. It's two things, I think, that are happening in that scene. That that is going to be Fiona, but also that is going to be him. And we do see it. When he goes home, he is at his home where he's comfortable, and he knows everything about the space he's lived. You know, they've lived there for 20 years, but he's also on his own. So it is just very, again, very deftly explored how loneliness and age is connected. How he starts to kind of showcase a lot of regret because he hasn't always been faithful to Fiona. And as they're driving, as he's dropping her off at the facility, she even kind of pops back into lucidity enough to say, like, oh, yeah, I remember all those women that you were fucking around with.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. This is like. I think what is one of the most interesting components to the film is this idea. At one point, I think he talks about this to the nurse or he definitely communicates it, his character communicates it of the. The notion that she might be punishing him.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie de Chirico]

In a way. Like, so she goes in the facility, he doesn't see her for 30 days, and then he comes back and she's kind of like, you know, cuddled up to, again, this like, short term resident who's played by Michael Murphy. Like, y'all remember him from the Robert Altman movies, I'm sure. And he's obviously like crushed by it because he wants, you know, obviously to have his wife remember who he is. And she's just kind of like, you know, attending to this other man now. And there's a moment where I think he's like, is she doing it on purpose? Like, is she punishing me for being like, you know, like a philanderer? And, you know, and then it's wrapped up in the idea that it's like a memory loss situation. Then you're like, you know, that's grief talking too. Right. His own grief is maybe like influencing this thought that he's having of whether or not she's like deliberately forgetting who he is.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely. And this man, Aubrey is non verbal.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So he's not even able, I mean, he's able to communicate to her through sounds and movements, but he's non verbal. So her relationship with him is deeply based on care, like helping him stand, helping him walk. And so that punishment, that notion of punishment does come into play for not just Grant, but for the audience. When you think, oh, is she just showcasing how great she. How loving and careful and wonderful she is and what he's missing out on. And it's very, very interesting layering of story here because Aubrey also brings into the picture Olympia Dukakis who plays Marian. And Marian is his wife. And the reason that Aubrey is in this care facility is because she is. She has to go out of town, essentially. So she goes away for like, A month or so. And she's his full time caretaker, so she puts him in this facility so that she can go away. And then when she comes back, Aubrey moves back in with her. And when that happens, Fiona is devastated. Absolutely depressingly devastated. Like to the point where she did not show this much emotion when her own husband left.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So there's just this. The relationship between Grant and Marian becomes a very interesting observation on punishment as well, and who's punishing who and who's using who. And kind of the way that I think we can look at Grant through time is we're not sure if he's a great guy or not. We're not sure if he's punishing himself. We're not sure if he's truly this loving and caring. I mean, it's again, to me a beautiful meditation on aging because there's no clear cut. This person is great. That person is not this person. It's a look at a complicated life and layering of life and how every decision you have made comes back to impact you in some way. Yeah, it's heavy. It's a heavy film. And then especially if you're building a life with someone, you know, what are your regrets? What are your. What's your guilt as you get to a point in life where you realize time is fleeting and you possibly start to regret how you've spent your time together or not.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. God. Yeah. This movie is so. It like really wrecked me this entire week. Weak. Wrecked me. But like, I. Yeah, I'm in the zone, dude. I'm in the zone age wise, like, you know, thinking about what it's going to be like when we're that age and you know, partnership and you know, like the idea of caretaking. The idea of like, you know, husbands and wives or partners who, you know, are. Have been with people for a very long time and like, what is that like? And how does that shake loose when you age and. But then also the idea of when you lose people, like, like, do you go and move on? Do you find your own happiness with other people? Like what? You know, it's just the world of like navigating. Being an older person, it just really like made me think about things. And this movie is so. And I think that part of what I love about it, it's so cozy and gentle. So it's like, it's very like slow moving, a lot of like very like thought provoking dialogue and thoughts and looks like. I mean, Gordon Pinsent has this like look to him when he's just sitting.

[Danielle Henderson]

On the couch and just staring. And.

[Millie de Chirico]

And it's like there are moments where he looks like the saddest man to ever live. Like, there's such sadness in his eyes about things, and it's like, God, this guy is incredible. What an actor.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah. And Sarah. Polly is great at that as well, which is, like, really utilizing Canadian actors who may not be as well known in the US but who are stunning performers.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And, you know, of course, it's like winter snow, cabins, skiing, coats. Like, there's the coziness of it, but it's also just like a very slow burn. Very cozy, very soft, gentle, you know, dialogue and actions and stuff. I don't know, it's such a. Such a world to be into. And then again, it just makes you think about so much. It's really affecting.

[Danielle Henderson]

Well, and also that landscape, like, I'm glad you brought that up, because the coziness of this snowy cottage by the lake, you know, fire and books and old furniture feeling becomes something so much more sinister when she's not there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So it becomes this cold, desolate, lonely landscape, which makes me wonder, or people, obviously, are, what makes a house a home. But then it makes me wonder and think a little bit deeply about. Well, for these characters in particular, she's thriving outside of that space, and he's left to kind of care for a life that he's not really joyful in. Like, he's not the joy in that house.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. It's very Scandinavian. I know they talk about it, actually. Cause she's like, they're Scandinavian or She's Scandinavian.

[Danielle Henderson]

She's Icelandic.

[Millie de Chirico]

Icelandic. Right. That's right. So it's that vibe. It actually, the whole movie kind of feels like kind of a Igmar Bergman type of film. Right. It's the environment. It's the. The thoughtfulness, the existentialism of it or whatever. But, yeah, it's. It's interesting because I think, actually both of our movies this week, it feels like the setting. It is. Is a direct line to sort of, like, what the story is about. Like, the environment is a reflection about what's going on between these characters. Right. But, yeah, this. I don't know, like, it's really like, this movie, I think, is. Is a gem. And I mean, I know that Julia Christie, she's, like, won the Oscar for it, or she was nominated for an Oscar.

[Danielle Henderson]

She was nominated. Yeah. I believe. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I remember the year. The Oscars, when. When this movie came out, and she was like, the talk of the town. But I feel like he. I don't know if he was nominated, but he's so good, too. Gordon Pinsett, like he should have been.

[Danielle Henderson]

He's incredible. The whole film is incredible. And it's truly like a stunning. I think it was great casting because she. She's, again, clearly already so known, and it was nice to kind of see her have this resurgence. Like, you had this. Seen her in a while. So it was nice to see her have this resurgence. But then he definitely could hold his own and more, you know, in her company. So. Yeah, I just. Yeah, I really. I really love this movie. I think it's worthwhile to watch at any age. If you watch it and you're younger than us, I think it's something that can inform, you know, how you look at partnership, possibly if you watch it and you're our age. Like, I could not stop thinking about, again, how close I am now to so many of the reference points in this film. Yeah. Having, you know, been divorced. They're not divorced, obviously, but kind of having your marriage change and being with people for a long time and then having to deal with. With dementia, and it's just. It's just. I think it's an interesting film about forgetting in terms of what do you want to forget? What do you wish you could forget? What do you never want to forget? Which I think we see a lot with Grant. But just what do you hope you forget? It's a very, very interesting movie. I know that it got a lot of acclaim when it came out, and I just want to push it to the forefront of something that should still be discussed and seen.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, man. Incredible. So glad you picked it. This week was really good, I gotta say. Sad, but I loved it. Like my favorite type.

[Danielle Henderson]

That's our wheelhouse. That's our specialty. Sad, but I liked it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, next week we're taking a turn, but before we announce the films, I'd like to remind everybody that if you want to email us, we [e-mail] we might have a bonus episode or two left before we sign off, but, you know, just send us an email, whatever. And we also have a P.O. box, too, by the way, if you want to write us and you can.

[Danielle Henderson]

Do both of those things for a limited time. Remember, only a couple more weeks. November 26th. I think Millie will probably check the. The email. Yeah. After we're done. Yeah, I don't think we'll keep the P.O. box. Keep paying for that. P.O. box.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, we'll See.

[Danielle Henderson]

But you can always find us on our social media. We are @isawpod on Instagram, bluesky and Twitter. And again for another week or so, you can send us a voicemail just for us to hear or just to play on the show. All you have to do is record a voice memo on your phone and email it to I saw what you did. Pot gmail.com. please make it 60 seconds or less and please record it. And quiet space.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right. And listen. Last call for merch. If you. If you want to keepsake from the podcast, you can go to exactly right. Store.com.

[Danielle Henderson]

That'Ll be so cool. In a few years, if you, like, see someone with an I saw what you did POD shirt and you're like, you were cool. You were. You were in there as they were doing it. Because I'm sure people will discover us years down the line and be like, oh, man.

[Millie de Chirico]

It'S gonna be vampires falling in their holes together, being like, God, I hate the world because I saw what you did is over. Remember when it was good?

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, no. Well, I think we have one more bonus episode. If we do, it'll drop in a week. Two weeks. We'll drop it. Two weeks.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[Danielle Henderson]

But our old bonus episodes are all on the main feed now, so you can go back and listen at will.

[Millie de Chirico]

Absolutely. Well, listen, we have. We do have a theme next week for one of our final episodes. Do you want to tell them what the movies are?

[Danielle Henderson]

I do, because they're newer movies. Our movies next week are Parasite from 2019 and Triangle of Sadness from 2022.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're going new, and we've been wanting to do Parasite for a long time.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, yeah, we've been talking about it to the point where somebody said in a comment once, they were like, have you ever actually covered this movie? Because I can't find it. But you talk about it all the time. Now's your chance there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Calm down. It only took us four years.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, it's a slow build. Give us a break.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, Danielle, as always, a pleasure doing this podcast with you.

[Danielle Henderson]

This total best.

[Millie de Chirico]

Bye.

[Danielle Henderson]

Bye. This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Casey O'Brien. Episode mixing and theme music by Tom Breyfogel. Artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgariff, and Danielle Kramer. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter. Saw podcast and you can email us at I saw what you did pod@gmail.