Predator (1987)! Plus, Vera Drew!

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You

Episode Summary: Predator (1987)! Plus, Vera Drew!

Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O'Brien
Guest: Vera Drew
Date: November 11, 2025

---

Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into John McTiernan’s iconic 1987 action/sci-fi classic Predator, featuring a characteristically vibrant breakdown from hosts Millie De Chirico and Casey O'Brien. The hosts talk about Predator's legacy, hyper-masculine tone, meme-worthy scenes, and Arnold’s star persona. The episode also features a fascinating interview with filmmaker Vera Drew (The People's Joker), who explores the archetype of “the Woman with No Name.” The team wraps with Arnold and action film recommendations, fun anecdotes, and a definitive ranking of all Predator films.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Predator’s Place in 80s Action Canon

[28:05–35:40]

• Overview & Cast:

  • Millie and Casey break down Predator’s high concept: elite military operatives (led by Arnold Schwarzenegger as “Dutch”) become prey to an alien hunter in the Central American jungle.
  • The cast includes Carl Weathers, Bill Duke, Jesse “The Body” Ventura, and Shane Black.
  • Predator as a blend of action, sci-fi, and horror, with a touch of Cold War paranoia.

• Quotable, Memeable Dialogue:

  • Casey: “Famous quotes. I ain’t got time to bleed. Get to the choppa. You’re one ugly motherfucker.” [28:50]
  • Millie notes the film is “such a memeable movie,” especially the iconic handshake and one-liners.

• Masculinity & Camaraderie:

  • The hosts discuss Predator’s “cartoonish hyper-masculinity” and how it both satirizes and enshrines the machismo of 80s blockbusters.
  • Millie: “These guys look like two pigs on a spit. Their shirts are hugging every muscle…” [47:18]

2. Personal Connections to Predator and Arnold

• Millie’s Take:

  • A latecomer to 80s action, she “gravitated towards Arnold,” citing his star power, charisma, and preference for “less aggressively violent” personas compared to Stallone.
  • “I always had to caveat it… Sorry everybody, but I love Arnold in the 80s and 90s.” [32:29]

• Casey’s Take:

  • As someone who doesn’t fit the hyper-masculine archetype (“I’m five-seven, always been small”), Predator’s team is an “other species.”
  • Casey shares stories of real-world masculinity confrontations and reflects on never quite fitting that mold.
  • “I don’t think I’d fit in with this group if they were all at a lunch table.” [42:42]

3. Plot Breakdown & Unpacking Predator’s Mythos

[38:08–67:49]

• Plot Recap:

  • Dutch and his team are tricked into attacking a guerrilla encampment under the pretense of saving hostages; soon, they realize they're being hunted by a thermal-visioned, cloaked alien "for sport."
  • The only woman, Anna (Elpidia Carrillo), serves primarily as a hostage, and the hosts comment on her underwritten role.
  • The infamous “mud camouflage” sequence allows Arnold to level the playing field against the Predator.

• Predator Tech (and Limitations):

  • Predator’s “thermal vision is a hindrance,” notes Casey.
  • Millie finds the “cartoonishly stupid” minigun (“Old Painless”) played for excess.

• Predator as a Villain:

  • Discussion of the Predator’s code of honor, its sporting approach, and why it ultimately forsakes its technological advantage for a fair, physical showdown with Dutch.
  • Millie: “What’s his motivation? Why does he care about being fair at all?” [66:10]

4. The Final Showdown & Pacing

• Both hosts note the last third as noticeably slower, “like a Kelly Reichardt movie out there… it’s like we’re watching Old Joy…” [67:11]
• Millie jokes about checking the progress bar to see “how much more of this silent, brooding jungle” remains.

5. Ranking the Predator Franchise

[69:03–72:10]

Casey reveals his Predator film ranking, worst-to-best:

1. The Predator (2018, Shane Black) – “So bad. Thinks it’s so funny.”
2. Aliens vs. Predator: Requiem (2007)
3. Predators (2010, Adrien Brody)
4. Prey (2022, Hulu)
5. Alien vs. Predator (2004)
6. Predator (1987)
7. Predator 2 (1990, Danny Glover) – his personal favorite for its “Predator in LA” setting.

6. Vera Drew Interview: The ‘Woman with No Name’ Archetype

[74:27–96:51]

• Origins & Connection:

  • Vera describes being inspired by Showgirls’ Nomi Malone, who enters the story with untold backstory and exits still enigmatic.
  • She likens this to Clint Eastwood’s Man with No Name—characters who drop into narratives already fully formed.

• Examples and Analysis:

  • Mad Max: Fury Road’s Furiosa (“dropped in feeling like an anthologized character”)
  • Trinity from The Matrix (“feels like she has a whole other story before the Matrix begins”)
  • Corky in Bound, Dorothy in Blue Velvet, Joan Chen in Twin Peaks, and even Sarah Connor in T2—characters who are not defined solely by relationships or morality, but propel the stories with mystery and flaws.

• Identity and Flawed Protagonists:

  • Vera: “So often women characters and queer characters aren’t allowed to start from this flawed, imperfect place.” [90:10]
  • She discusses her own film with a trans antihero and why it matters to depict complexity, not just perfection, in marginalized characters.

• Memorable Quote:

  • “When we meet Linda Hamilton, you’re meeting Sarah Connor while she’s doing pull ups in a mental institution—that is so fucking awesome. It doesn’t matter that we don’t know she was a waitress or who Kyle Reese is.” (Vera Drew, [88:44])

• Plugs:

  • The People’s Joker (available on Mubi, physical media, VHS, Blu-ray)
  • Edited Alice Mayo McKay’s The Serpent’s Skin (“psycho, witchy, lesbian, toxic romance”)
  • Acted alongside Josh Fadem in Every Heavy Thing (premiering at Beyond Fest)

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Meme Culture & Predator’s Enduring Appeal:

  “You just see these two guys, like… look like two pigs on a spit. Their shirts, their tight shirts are, like, hugging the curves of their muscles… that famous meme of the handshake…” — Millie De Chirico [47:18]

• On Predator’s Power Imbalance:

  “He could never be killed. No one would ever know he was there… It’s kind of this weird improbability where I’m like, oh, these guys would be dead in five seconds. How did this even go past the first ten minutes?” — Millie De Chirico [55:01]

• On Masculinity in Predator:

  “I can’t fight someone. I just can’t. I’ve always felt like an other to that type of masculinity.” — Casey O'Brien [44:25]

• On Arnold Schwarzenegger’s Unique Action Persona:

  “He has an undercurrent of… I wish I didn’t have to be violent. There’s a peacefulness. He’s like, I don’t like this.” — Casey O’Brien [35:17]

• On Flawed Female Leads:

  “So often women characters and queer characters aren’t allowed to start from this flawed, imperfect place. Characters are flawed.” — Vera Drew [90:10]

---

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|---------| | 28:05 | Predator overview, cast, and iconic lines | | 31:04 | Millie’s personal connection to Arnold | | 38:08 | Predator plot breakdown starts | | 47:18 | Discussion of the meme-handshake scene | | 55:01 | Unpacking Predator as an indestructible villain | | 66:10 | The Predator’s “code of sportsmanship” and hand-to-hand final battle | | 69:03 | Casey’s full Predator film ranking | | 74:27 | Vera Drew interview begins | | 88:44 | Sarah Connor as the “woman with no name” | | 90:10 | Vera’s reflection on character flaws in marginalized leads | | 97:04 | Staff Picks segment: Arnold & action recommendations |

---

Arnold & Action Movie Recommendations (Staff Picks)

[97:04–101:17]

• Millie’s Pick:

  • Conan the Destroyer (1984) – "Just a display of Arnold’s body in a way you cannot fathom… Over the top. Grace Jones and Wilt Chamberlain star. If you haven’t entered the world of these movies, start here.”

• Casey’s Pick:

  • Total Recall (1990, dir. Paul Verhoeven) – “Very imaginative and weird and dark and set on Mars. A real sci-fi movie that wouldn’t have been made if Arnold hadn’t been attached.”

---

Flow & Tone

The episode is unpretentious, joyful, and peppered with playful banter (“Get to the choppa!”). Millie and Casey bring a conversational and often self-deprecating humor, whether geeking out over 80s action absurdity or interrogating the genre’s gender politics. Vera Drew’s segment adds a thoughtful, cinephile layer, connecting character archetypes across genres and eras.

---

For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode is an encyclopedic yet accessible walk through one of the most beloved 80s action films, examining everything from its cultural impact (and memes) to its gender presentation and genre-blending. The addition of Vera Drew’s deep-dive into the “woman with no name” enriches the chat, making it both entertaining and insightful for diehard fans and newcomers alike.

Next time: Thanksgiving movies—specifically, Ang Lee’s The Ice Storm!

---

For more insights and lively discussion, follow @dearmoviesiloveyou on Instagram, or email the hosts at [e-mail].

Transcript

[Millie De Chirico]

This is exactly right.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser]

Pro drivers live for race day. But for small business owners, every day is race day. That's why going pro with Lenovo Pro matters one on one advice. IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors. Keep your business on the right track. Business goes pro with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for [e-mail] Pro Lenovo Lenovo.

[Millie De Chirico]

This is Karen from My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. No one brings out your inner monster like a bad neighbor. Claire Danes and Matthew Rhys find that out for themselves in the Beast in Me, a new eight episode drama from the team that brought you Homeland. Danes plays Aggie Wiggs, a grieving writer.

[Casey O'Brien]

Rhys plays Nile Jarvis, her new neighbor and possible murderer.

[Millie De Chirico]

But who's the monster and. And who's the bad neighbor? That's another story. It's a game of cat and mouse that sets them on a collision course with fatal consequences. The Beast in Me now playing only on Netflix. You will not want to miss this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodbye.

[Millie De Chirico]

Goodbye.

[LEGO Star Wars Advertiser]

Does anything go better than Lego and Star Wars? I don't think so. Kids will love becoming a part of the galactic action while playing out their favorite adventures. Like with Jango Fett Starship. I mean, this LEGO set is fantastic. It features a detailed recreation of Jango Fett's starship with four stud shooters, a seismic charge dropping function and wings that rotate with gravity. Plus it has three Jango Fett with two blasters and a jetpack. Young Boba Fett and Llama Sue. Perfect for endless play. Now for the big fans, there's Jango Fett's Firespray class starship from the Ultimate Collector series. Packed with details and surprises for fans, this large scale set is perfect for anyone hunting for a mindful building escape. Plus, you end up with a fantastic display piece. You can build this while your little ones build the kid set. You'll be like Jango and Boba building an adventure shop. Now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, well, well.

[Millie De Chirico]

Casey O'. Brien. I haven't seen you since those days in Cambodia.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie the Jericho.

[Ed Helms]

Put her there.

[Millie De Chirico]

How the hell.

[Casey O'Brien]

Casey. Oh, fuck. Never thought I'd see your ass out here again.

[Millie De Chirico]

Back at you, brother. Listen, I got a mission for you. And I know that you're the only man in the world who can tackle it. What do you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, you know, I'm in. I got my guys and we're ready to go.

[Millie De Chirico]

All right. The mission is very simple. Is gonna use all of Your strength, all of your resources, and all of your weapons, but I know you can do it. We're gonna jump out of this helicopter, down into the jungles, and I need you to rescue these four hostages for me, bring them back to America where they can be free.

[Casey O'Brien]

As good as done, my man. Let's go.

[Millie De Chirico]

Go, go, go, go, go, go. Get your men over here.

[Casey O'Brien]

Let's go.

[Millie De Chirico]

Let's go.

[Casey O'Brien]

What. What is this?

[Millie De Chirico]

What are you. What are you talking about, brother?

[Casey O'Brien]

You just. You just led us to a room. Looks like kind of like a podcast studio with, like, a zoom call and, like, a podcast microphone. What's going on?

[Millie De Chirico]

Listen, my friend, my brother in arms, I couldn't just, you know, tell you. I had to come up with a circumstance that would entice you down here to this, you know, very boring studio with very little on the walls and just a bunch of computer equipment, because the actual mission is that you're going to have to record a podcast, dear. Movies. I love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, man, Millie, I was all excited about the hostage thing. I got all these guys, these big muscle guys, and I got a bunch of grenades and stuff. And you just want me to record a podcast?

[Millie De Chirico]

Listen, I'm a bummer. I'm not telling you you can't use the grenades. I do think, though, that you're gonna have to put the rocket launcher out in the parking lot. We can't have that kind of weaponry in the building.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're gonna be. The guys are gonna be so disappointed. Looking forward to this.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's. Listen, it's beyond me. It's a code thing, okay? I know. I can't help it, but, I mean, what was I supposed to do? You were chomping your cigar. You had guys in the. In the helicopter that were carving things into their leg with bowie knives. I mean, I couldn't just be like, hey, you want to record a film podcast with me?

[Casey O'Brien]

You could have just asked me up front. I would have done it. I do this every week. It's fine. I just was excited about, like, going into the jungle and stuff. I don't know, I just thought you saw me as more of a, you know, a manly man than just a, you know, a stupid, pathetic podcaster.

[Millie De Chirico]

But I hated lying to you. But.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, it didn't feel good being lied to, Philly, frankly. So. Well, I mean, we have a good show, I guess. You know, I was gonna say, now.

[Millie De Chirico]

That you're here, do you want to, you know, maybe talk about. About an incredible 80s action movie?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited. I'm back in. I'm, I'm, I'm excited to record, so.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay. Well, you can. Hopefully your guys will understand. They can go get something to eat while we record.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hey, guys, you can, you can head out where you can listen to. Subscribe. You can listen to this later, but, yeah, we don't need you right now.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, well, you and I are going to talk a little bit about a classic film from the 1980s.

[Casey O'Brien]

Classic.

[Millie De Chirico]

The name of it is Predator 1987. And we're both completely strapped.

[Casey O'Brien]

Strapped. I have seen every Predator movie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Have you?

[Casey O'Brien]

So I'm gonna rank em.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's fantastic, because I have not seen every Predator movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I can school you on that.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, I'm excited by that because I have an interest after rewatching this.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then we have a very exciting guest for my area of expertise. It is the writer, director, editor, and actor of the People's Joker, Vera Drew. And she's on to talk about her area of expertise, which is the archetype, the character of, quote, the woman with no name. And we'll get into that more when we talk to her. But I will say she does talk about Predator in the conversation. And we didn't even know she was going to be on the Predator episode. That was just.

[Millie De Chirico]

That was just lucky.

[Casey O'Brien]

Podcast magic.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's what that was. Oh, man, she's so cool. It's going to be a treat for you guys. So listen, stay tuned. It's going to be a meaty episode. You're listening to Dear Movies, I love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Whoops.

[Millie De Chirico]

Dear movies, I love you.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I've got to know if you.

[Millie De Chirico]

You love me too. Yes or no?

[Vera Drew]

Check the box below.

[Millie De Chirico]

Hey, y'. All, this is Dear Movies, I love you. It's a podcast for those who are in a relationship with movies. My name is Millie De Chirico.

[Casey O'Brien]

And my name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie De Chirico]

And yes, we are in the throes of November. We were recording this, what, like a week before it airs? Can I just tell you that I am exhausted? The World Series is over by now. We have a winner. And I will say, though, about the Dodgers, first of all, like, they were maligned a lot this year, and I don't know why. I think maybe because of the salary cap conversation stuff and then just general hate for teams that have a lot of great players and have a vibe. Right? And I, I, I'm a fan, but I'm also a critical fan. And I, so I listened to those criticisms from people saying that the Dodgers are, they spend too much money and they're too powerful and yeah, gotta get, gotta get rid of them. I will say though, their esprit de corps is so good. And when Freddie did that walk off homer in the 18th inning, they had played for so long and he was being hugged by his manager, Dave Roberts. A full body hug. Not at like one of these. Like, we're two straight guys that don't know how to hug. They were like, it was a very warm embrace. And that's the thing about their team that I love, is that they celebrate each other. They're friendly, they're funny, they care about each other, they're tender as straight guys that play sports. And I just, I don't know, I was like, you know what, it was a good show.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's an undeniable team vibe that goes beyond the money.

[Millie De Chirico]

I agree.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, and also other teams have just as much money, but the Dodgers organization is just the smartest organization and they have the most money or a lot of money, I should say. So I kind of don't buy those arguments. But. And also, I will say the Toronto Blue Jays, they have like the third or fourth most highest payroll. Let me look that up real quick. But they have, they have a really high payroll too. They're not like, it's not like the damn Minnesota Twins up there. You know, the Blue Jays have the fifth highest payroll, the Dodgers have the second highest payroll. So.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, well, there you go.

[Casey O'Brien]

There you go. Anyway, well, way to defend your boys.

[Millie De Chirico]

Just wanted to say it. And that's why if I'm a little loopy during this Predator episode, it's because.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm extremely tired and we're being hunted by the Predator.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, that too, duh.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser]

There's no championship league for small business owners, but if there was, you'd be at the top of the standings. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One on one advice. IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for [e-mail] Pro Lenovo Lenovo.

[LEGO Star Wars Advertiser]

Does anything go better than Lego and Star Wars? I don't think so. Kids will love becoming a part of the galactic action while playing out their favorite adventures. Like with Jango Fett Starship. I mean, this Lego set is fantastic. It features a detailed recreation of Jango Fett's starship with four stud shooters, a seismic charge dropping function, and wings that rotate with gravity. Plus, it has three minifigures. Jango Fett with two blasters and a jetpack. Young Boba Fett and Llama Su. Perfect for endless play. Now for the big fans, there's Jango Fett's Firespray class starship from the Ultimate Collector series. Packed with details and surprises for fans, this large scale set is perfect for anyone hunting for a mindful building escape. Plus you end up with a fantastic display piece. You can build this while your little ones are build the kid set. You'll be like Jango and Boba building an adventure shop. Now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone. Ed Helms here.

[Casey O'Brien]

And hi, I'm Kal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the I Heart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Millie De Chirico]

You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin Firth.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennet. Here, listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, let's open up our film diary and read our passages from the last week. Ka Chunk Kachunk. Indeed.

[Millie De Chirico]

Do you want to go first?

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure. I think I watched like eight movies this one.

[Millie De Chirico]

Jesus.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I'm not going to go through all of them, but I'm going to point out a few that excited me. Sure. Number one, I want to talk about Ken Russell. Do you know that director Ken Russell?

[Millie De Chirico]

Gimme a break.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's rolling her eyes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Who doesn't know Ken Russell? Come on.

[Casey O'Brien]

He did movies like. What are some of his big hits? Lair of the White Worm.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, there's the devils Listomania. Actually, that is not a big listomania. That is not a big Ken Russell movie at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think he did Tommy the. Who's Tommy? Anyways, he's great. I saw a movie called altered states from 1980. This is on the Criterion Channel. William Hurt plays a scientist who's trying to get to the depths of human consciousness. And he goes so far that he begins to mutate. And it's cool. I liked it a lot.

[Millie De Chirico]

Are they gonna remake that movie or have they remade that Movie? I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know.

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm thinking of something else.

[Casey O'Brien]

It could be good. It's sexy too.

[Millie De Chirico]

Speaking of sexy, have you seen Ken Russell's Crimes of Passion with.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I haven't.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's a good one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Liked Alter States a lot. Then I watched a movie almost as good. Lawnmower Man 2 Beyond cyberspace. Now my wife Tricia has gotten really into Lawnmower man for some reason. And we watched the first one and I thought it was good. It's like a good cyberpunk movie. And so we watched the second one. This one isn't as good, but it's fun. It feels like a Disney version of Blade Runner, kind of dystopian cyberspace, cyberpunk kind of stuff. But I enjoyed it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay. Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then I watched The John Carpenter 2001 movie, Ghosts of Mars with Natasha Henstridge, Pam Greer, your boy Statham. Jason Statham.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And this was everything I wanted and more.

[Millie De Chirico]

Was it? I've never seen it.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's goofy as hell. It is. I thought it was. If I saw this when I was a kid, I would have been scared. It's the future. People are living on Mars and they're transporting a criminal, which is Ice Cube, and they get to this like, small town that's been totally slaughtered. And it's because there is this ancient civilization that used to live on Mars and the ghosts of that civilization has started taking over people's bodies and making them go loco. I thought this was fun. It was violent. It was kind of scary. It's goofy. It's everything you want from a John Carpenter man movie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Fantastic.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then last night we watched Megan 2.0. I liked the first Megan. And you did not.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, I didn't.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, that's fine.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, I'm okay. Let me, let me, let me rewind. I feel like I'm glad it exists. A lot of people had a lot of fun with it. It was fun. I, you know, was annoyed that it was PG13, but I get why it's PG13 at the same time. So I thought it was going to be a lot more violent. And I wanted it to be. I wanted it to be very violent. But I get it. You want to bring those kitties in teens.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I feel like that that trend is actually ending where people were like, make a horror movie and make it PG13 so that the teens will go see it. I just feel like the movies that do well, the, the R rated horrors like your weapons and sinners, those are doing so Much better than those kind of teeny bopper horror.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, but that's, you know, like get real. When I was 13, I didn't want to see a 13 year old's movie. I wanted to see goddamn cannibal apocalypse or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean cannibal holocaust.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, and apocalypse, there's actually another movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I wasn't familiar with the apocalypse.

[Millie De Chirico]

Listen, there's. I could, I could lay it all out. Cannibal Ferocs. There's also cannibal Fair Ox. So a lot of cannibal blank movies out there the way. But it's like I. Part of the joy of being a teenager is getting, you know, sneaking into like adult movies and watching some shit that isn't for me. And again, maybe it's just a generational thing to be honest, because you know, my generation, the Chann Xers, we were constantly trying to, you know, do things that we weren't allowed to do now. And know in this era of, I don't know, you can speak to it, parenthood, they're a lot more involved in their kids lives and they don't want them to see a Joe d' Amato movie or whatever. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think parents now are like, they're too friendly with their children. They've become too like their pals now. I was never pals with my parents. That's why I would sneak R rated movies. I'd watch Starship Troopers at my friend's house, you know, so I don't know. Yeah, it's a different, it's a different thing. It's like Johnny Pemberton said, people who want approval of their parents. It's a disease.

[Millie De Chirico]

That was literally one of the greatest takes I think we've ever had on this podcast. But yeah, anyway, I hear you, I hear you.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is a larger conversation. I know my dear friend Patrick Mallon. He hates when a movie isn't violent enough and he wants it to be more so. I understand that. But I would say Megan 2.0 is actually more of a action movie. And so it kind of, it's not a horror movie.

[Millie De Chirico]

I would say, okay, okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

And there's a lot more Brian Jordan Alvarez, which I love.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, he's great. And I. Maybe I'll take it a spin again. If you asked me to come over to your house and we just want to have a chill movie night and you're like, let's watch Megan 2.0. I'm going to do it. I'm never going to, I'm never going to not sit in front of a movie. But, you know, I generally. The whole. I guess I'm talking really about the Megan fanfare. Just generally, I thought, yeah, what a great opportunity to go, like, really hardcore. But, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, you do want it to be, like, child's play, but it's not.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Anyway. Okay. What else?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's all I got.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's it.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I don't. I have other ones, but I don't want to go into them. They're not worth your time, Millie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Wow. I can't believe you or our listeners. Time. Well, did you log them on? Letterboxd?

[Casey O'Brien]

They're on there. Okay. Follow me.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, go.

[Casey O'Brien]

Casey. Leo Bryant.

[Millie De Chirico]

I was gonna say go to our letterbox is usually like, if we don't talk about them, at least you know that we logged them. I only watched two movies this week. Hit me. One of them was basically cleared up some paperwork from a couple episodes ago when I recommended this movie but didn't recommend this movie. Do you know what I'm saying? So I did.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't remember what this was, but.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, I told people to watch the 2000 movie Almost Famous. We were talking about fans.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, that's right.

[Millie De Chirico]

Fan films or movies about fans. And I was like, don't watch this movie, because this movie has been seen enough. It's been. It's seeped into the culture enough. And then it was on TCM one night very recently, and I was like, fuck it. I'm just gonna sit in front of Almost Famous. I just talked about it, man. I don't like that movie. Whoa. Sorry. And this is Shots Fired. I know, because I actually talked to a good friend of mine, Patrick. Not the Patrick that, you know, another Patrick that I'm friends with who's also a huge movie fan here on the east coast, and he's younger than me, and this was such a, like, flashpoint movie for a certain generation. And I talked to him about it because I was like, oh, I know people your age, like, really love this movie. And I. And I remember when it came out, I watched it and was like, okay, cool. You know, being that I'm a big fan of Cameron Crowe. But I was like, man, this movie kind of sucks. Like, it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie De Chirico]

I thought most characters were annoying. Although I will say that I actually thought Kate Hudson was great.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie De Chirico]

And she, for her, like, for her whole role, which sort of gets tucked into, like, the manic pixie dream girl trope a little bit, she was surprisingly not annoying and believable and great. And she wasn't, like, too you know, like, sparkly, darkly. Like, she was very, like, I don't know, believable in that kind of role that she was playing. And she's very cute, and I loved her. And I will say there was a couple of other, like, God, I was like, Frances McDormand. This must be my age, because now I'm like, poor Frances McDormand, stressed out that her son's on the road with rock stars. But I love her. And every time they cut to her freaking out on the phone, I was like, I see you. I understand you. And then I generally think that, like, I don't know. I don't know what they were invoking with the Billy Crudup character. He kind of reminded me of a 70s James Taylor during, you know, Tulane blacktop, which I appreciated. I thought he looked great. But, like, everybody else in that movie annoyed the shit out of me. Jason Lee just drove me fucking bananas.

[Casey O'Brien]

I haven't seen this movie in so long. It was such a cultural thing.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was such a big movement.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes. And I don't. I get. Listen, I get why. But I also am like, ugh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyway, no, sorry, I. I get it. I get it. I. I think it might. It's definitely worth revisiting, but I haven't seen it since, like, I want to say, came out in 2000, I think. I don't think I've seen it since then, to be honest.

[Millie De Chirico]

Exactly when the last time I saw it. And that's why I was like, I gotta watch it again. And that's what.

[Casey O'Brien]

So you're officially revoking that. Was it your actual staff pick?

[Millie De Chirico]

No, it was my staff pick.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, so is it. Is that being revoked or, like, are you.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, because I. I don't. I want people to form their own opinions about it. Obviously, I'm gonna recommend that people see it now. I'm just saying I sort of liked it when it came out, and now I just don't like it. That's my revision.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think I related to it because it was, like, about a square, non free spirit having to hang out with a bunch of free spirited, annoying people.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I related to the boy.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I. I hear you. I wanted to be able to do that, but I just. It was just too corny for me.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hear you. I hear you. What else?

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, the only. The only other movie I saw drastically different than the one I just mentioned is that. So over the weekend, I was in Washington, D.C. and the District. The District. Correct. And I was invited to Washington, D.C. by actually, I want to shout them out. I want to shout them out by name. Is that okay?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, his name's Donald Trump.

[Millie De Chirico]

I was invited by Stephen Miller. He really wanted to talk about Almost Famous with me. Okay. So I was invited to the George Washington University. I was invited by Amazing. I know, it was fantastic. I was invited by Ivy and Menlo, who were part of the Visiting Artists and Scholars Committee, which is basically a group at G Dub that brings people in to speak to students about, you know, stuff. And they asked me to come and speak to a group of art history students about my career and my podcast and my work. And it was very flattering. And of course I said yes. So I did a little presentation. I swear I bored them to tears. But they were very nice and said it was very enjoyable.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

We get some new podcast listeners, you think?

[Millie De Chirico]

I hope so. They were really sweet. They took me to dinner afterwards. I got to talk to them about their. A lot of them were in grad school, so I got to talk to them about grad school. We all talked about a lot of them because they're art history majors, want to work in the museum world. And I talked to them about my two failed attempts at joining the museum world myself, and that they laughed about it. So, yeah, it was a great time. And they were so nice. They took such good care of me. They sent me a note when I got back to be like, hey, hope your trip went well. And, you know, thank you so much. Like, it was so sweet. They were so great.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's so cool.

[Millie De Chirico]

So that's awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So they're so lucky to have you, Millie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, you're sweet. I. I felt like I was. Like, I should not be here. I was having imposter syndrome. But they were really, really kind. But while I was in dc, I spent an extra day hanging out with friends and I went to see. So they were doing Noir City, which, if you don't know, Noir City, it's an annual festival that's put on by my old co worker Eddie Muller, who is the czar of noir. And it's basically like a little mini film festival. It's all noir films. And my friends and I went to see Detour from 1945 at Noir City at the AFI Silver Springs Theater. And it is a short movie, which is fantastic. I mean, it's like Tetsuo the Iron man length. It's like an hour and eight minutes or something. And it was really fun. I haven't seen Detour in a long Time. And it's like a noir about a guy who was trying to travel cross country to get to his girlfriend, but then gets caught up in all these, like, weird strangers who, you know, basically at some point try to blackmail him. So it's very. It's very fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

Cool.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Amazing. I gotta check that out.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, that's it. That's my film diary.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, let's close it up.

[Millie De Chirico]

Get out of here. Get the out.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, everybody, we are back to talk about Predator from 1987.

[Vera Drew]

Hoo, boy.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is directed by John McTiernan, and it was written by little Jim and John Thomas, little brother screenwriting duo. It's kind of fun. Some cataloging. This is an action science fiction, horror movie. Some of the themes are military stuff. Aliens, Cold War, maybe even a little. Some standout actors. Well, we got our man, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Carl Weathers, Bill Duke, Jesse the Body Ventura, my former governor, fellow Minnesota.

[Millie De Chirico]

Damn, you're good at that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've had to hear him talk a lot in my life.

[Millie De Chirico]

You're amazing.

[Casey O'Brien]

Famous quotes. I ain't got time to bleed. Get to the choppa. You're one ugly motherfucker. Any others stand out to you?

[Millie De Chirico]

I mean, there's so many. You know what?

[Casey O'Brien]

There's so many. We'll maybe we'll get to it.

[Millie De Chirico]

You know what I realized rewatching Predator after a very long time? This is such a memeable movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Don't you think is such a memeable movie? Has been meme.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, the handshake of Arnold and Carl Weathers, that was memed so much.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, yeah. I even memed it, like, at one point. Wow. In my own life. But I, I. But also just like the phrases and everything. It's like, like if you. If you haven't seen it at all and you watch it, you're gonna be like, oh, fuck. Everybody says stuff like this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Which maybe we'll get to this later. Made the Shane Black character so annoying because I feel like his character was, like, trying to get in on the fun, but he couldn't keep up. And I find him kind of annoying in general.

[Millie De Chirico]

Who's Shane Black?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. You wrote in your notes that you don't like him. And I was like, how? How? I guess I never really think about him. But I do like his. The movies that he wrote.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I like Lethal Weapon. I do not like Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang. I did not like his Predator movie that he wrote and directed. I didn't really like the nice guys. There's probably some more I should see.

[Millie De Chirico]

Have you never seen the Long Kiss Good Night?

[Casey O'Brien]

I've never seen that one.

[Millie De Chirico]

That shit is fucking great.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just think he thinks he's so funny. He's so clever. I don't know. He just bugs me.

[Millie De Chirico]

Damn dude like Shane Black. Like you guys are gonna chomp cigars in each other's faces and start cussing each other out.

[Casey O'Brien]

At some point I'll meet him out in them film streets. Is that just a too hot of a take? I don't know.

[Millie De Chirico]

No, I don't think. Listen, nothing shocks me anymore. Literally nothing.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't want him. I don't want him to send the predator after me. Millie, what's your personal connection to this movie? Do you have one?

[Millie De Chirico]

There you go with that. God damn. Really?

[Casey O'Brien]

Tell me about your personal connection to this movie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Nobody knows this, but before we started the episode, Casey made me laugh in such a deep, fucked up way that I was crying. I had to get up. I had to get up and walk in the other room.

[Casey O'Brien]

I thought she was gone for like 15 minutes. I was worried.

[Millie De Chirico]

I was. I know, I felt like basically to put my guts back in my body, I was laughing so hard. But like today, I don't know what it is. You're doing your thing. You're. You're doing that accent. Every time you ask me the question like that, I always, always think Jiminy Glick, always.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ah, I love Jiminy Glick so much.

[Millie De Chirico]

My personal connection, that's what your personal connection. I just found that I really gravitated towards Arnold Schwarzenegger and I just like. And I know again, I always had to caveat it because it's like, I don't know, he's a Republican and people like hate him or whatever, but I'm just like. And that's fine. I mean that is a totally rational argument. But it's like as a, as somebody who kind of came late to the action game, but I was still kind of a college person, college age person. Yeah. I don't know. I was like, yo, that guy's a star. And he was a star.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean you, you say, you say be gravitating towards him is something unusual. I mean, all of America and the world did.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And I don't know why, I don't know why I feel compelled to like sort of say, oh, sorry everybody, but I love arnold in the 80s and 90s. And again, it, it was also part and party of just everything that else that he's done that I absolutely love. Like total Recall. And especially, you know, my. One of my top movies of all time, Terminator 2, Judgment Day. So it's funny because even though that stuff, he was an actual huge world movie star at that time, but then these movies that he did in the 80s were kind of the ramp up to all that. Right. So like Commando, which I think is fantastic. One of my favorite 80s action movies. And then Predator, which I feel like is. I don't know what you would think. Like his. One of his other big movies besides the first Terminator. Like. Like, if you were gonna rank 80s Arnold movies, what would it be?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I was gonna ask. Yeah, I was gonna talk to you about your kind of favorite Arnold performances. But I think in terms of ranking 80s Arnold movies now, did T2 come out in the 80s or is that a 90s?

[Millie De Chirico]

No, that I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you count that?

[Millie De Chirico]

No, because I feel like that to me, and I think it's because I saw it in the 90s. It feels like an absolute 90s movie. But wait, let me double check.

[Casey O'Brien]

Judgment day was 91 and total recall was 90. I guess the only. The only 80s Arnold movies I've seen are the first. Terminator, Predator, and Commando.

[Millie De Chirico]

So you didn't see the Conan movies at all?

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't see the Conan movies, no. I thought Conan, but I love all three of those movies. I think those are all three great movies that have stood the test of time. And I feel like there was sort of this rivalry between Sylvester Stallone and arnold in the 80s where they kind of went back and forth. But if you look at, like, the Sylvester Stallone movies, I think those have not stood the test of time in the way that Arnold's movies have. I think he had higher highs than Stallone too. And maybe that is tiring to a person and they don't want to pursue it as much. Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And. Well, and I definitely think that the Sylvester thing is going to come back up when we talk about Predator, because obviously I feel like 80s action movies have kind of a connection to the Vietnam era, which we'll talk about later. But, yeah, I mean, I will say that, like, Predator is one of, if not one of the best Arnold movies in his filmography. It's definitely one of the best 80s action movies he did. And I don't know, so. And I just love, like, his shit. I just love the vibe of, like, his tough guy shit. It's somehow, like, not as aggressive as, like, other action stars are. It doesn't feel as aggressive. He has kind of an undercurrent of. I don't know, like, there's something about.

[Casey O'Brien]

Him that's like, I wish I didn't have to be violent.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, there's like a peacefulness. He's like, I don't like this.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And I just. I don't know, it's like when you. I watched the Arnold documentary when it came out not too long ago. And yeah, maybe it is because he's European. There's something different about him. But anyway, that's. That's my personal connection to Predator, and I haven't seen Predator in a really long time. So.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser]

There'S no championship league for small business owners. But if there was, you'd be at the top of the standings because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One on one advice. IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro Wythland Lenovo Pro Sign up for [e-mail] pro.

[LEGO Star Wars Advertiser]

When you say LEGO Star wars, the first thing you think of is imagination or action.

[Vera Drew]

Or both.

[LEGO Star Wars Advertiser]

Definitely both. Like with Jango Fett's Starship, I mean, with stud blasters, seismic charges, and three minifigures, your kid is gonna be creating stories until the Banthas come home. And for yourself, there's the Jango Fett's Firespray class Starship LEGO set from the Ultimate Collector series. Enjoy some Jedi Master level mindfulness during your building time. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores.

[Ed Helms]

Hey, everyone.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ed Helms here and hi, I'm Kalpen.

[Millie De Chirico]

And we're the hosts of Irsay, The.

[Casey O'Brien]

Audible, and iHeart Audiobook Club.

[Ed Helms]

This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question. There's no wrong answer. What role would I play?

[Millie De Chirico]

You know what? I can see you as a Mr. Darcy. You got a little call in first.

[Ed Helms]

Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett here. Listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audio Book Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

My personal connection. I have recently watched every Predator movie prior to us deciding to even do this episode.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, fantastic.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like I would say maybe two years ago.

[Millie De Chirico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

I watched all of them.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know why. I just did. And I Had a great time. And listen to the end of our conversation to hear my definitive ranking. Should I get into the synopsis?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes, of course.

[Casey O'Brien]

Of this movie. Okay, so Alan, Dutch Schaefer, played by Arnold Schwarzenegger, he goes by Dutch. He runs an elite military rescue team. And they don't do assassinations. They are hired by an old pal, Al Dillon, played by Carl Weathers. They're hired by him to rescue a local cabinet minister. I'm not sure what that means, but they refer to that in the movie a few times. A local cabinet minister whose helicopter was shot down in a Central American jungle and he's now hostage to guerrillas. So they go in, they absolutely blow up this guerrilla encampment. And his team is great. It's got Jesse Ventura, Bill Duke, Shane Black, like we mentioned, all these manly men and they're great and they're funny. But they blow up this guerrilla encampment and they find out there's no cabinet minister. That was all a ruse and a lie. This is like a Soviet sponsored group that was going to take over this area. And Carl Weathers tricked Arnold into taking it out to prevent this invasion because Arnold would not have said yes otherwise. Arnold is pissed. They end up taking one of the surviving gorillas, Anna is her name, played by Elpidia Carrillo. But also they discover while they're doing this that there were like other people who were gonna go take out this guerrilla encampment, but were killed, skinned and hung upside down. But by whom? They don't know. So that's kind of the beginning of the movie. It's a little confusing with the. The deception with Carl Weathers. I thought.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Which we tried to replicate and are open to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Questionable success. But. So, okay. Part of what I love about these types of like action movies that feature like groups of guys.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Is the kind of cataloging, I guess, if you will, of like the different personality types.

[Vera Drew]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

In the group. And it cracks me up because it's like, you know, there's like such tropes in some of these things. Like for example, 100%, one of the guys is little cadre or whatever is this guy Billy, who was played by the actor Sonny Lanham. And he's like. To me it's clear that he's like the indigenous character that has like spiritual powers. You know, like it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's a tracker.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. He's, you know, Native American, I believe. I'm not actually sure actually. Is it?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. He is 1 8th Seminole.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Descent and half Cherokee descent.

[Millie De Chirico]

Right. So but then they use him in that way where it's basically he's, like, able to, like, track spirits and things. And it's just kind of like, I don't know, like, in a way, kind of like, okay, we get it. And then.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, then you have. So then you have Rick. Right. Which is the Shane Black character, your fave, who is, like, the guy making the pussy jokes. And he's a real, you know, funny guy with glasses and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

You know. No, everybody blows him off because he's a dork. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep.

[Millie De Chirico]

And then. Yeah. I mean, you've got, on the other side of the equation, the body. Jesse. Right. Who is all testosterone, aggression, you know, dropping like F bombs, like chewing tobacco, you know, talking about his big dick type of thing. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And it just is funny because he's like, oh, what? A bunch of guys in a helicopter about to be dropped in Central America. But, yeah, so you're like, world building. Right. And then you're like, oh, Dutch, AKA Arnold, is like, their leader.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And, you know, like, they've managed to stick together all throughout the years, and they've got, like a. They're the best brotherhood. They're not expendable. Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right.

[Millie De Chirico]

Which is something that is a runner through the film. But I want to know what it feels like, because, I mean, I certainly, as a woman, are, like, looking at this, like, laughing. But what is it like for maybe you as a guy, and maybe even when you were a younger guy to see this type of masculinity?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. It's interesting. I am such a different. I wrote in my notes, I don't think I'd fit in with this group if they were all at a lunch table. I don't know if I'd be sitting at that table.

[Millie De Chirico]

You're trying to tell me that none of these guys had Garden State posters up in their bedrooms?

[Casey O'Brien]

If they did, they would, you know, hopefully confide in me and feel safe telling me that secret. But, you know, it's. I am just like a different species. I am like a smaller guy. I'm five seven. So I've always been, like, small. And I have had to. I've never had any chance of, like, squaring up physically with another guy. You know, I've certainly been in situations where I've almost gotten into a fight and I've had to escape because I. It would be bad for me.

[Millie De Chirico]

What do you mean, escape? Like, because you remember you told the story at the restaurant where the guy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Grabbed you, by the way, and Called me a cocksucker. Yes. It's a lot of people grab my call. That happens a lot.

[Millie De Chirico]

That is so shocking.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was at a bar one time and the Daily Pint in Santa Monica, and I was closing on my check, and I'd had a few, but this guy was like, move over. And I was, like, closing out my check. I'm standing, like, shoulder to shoulder with people at the bar. And then he goes, fucking move over. And he grabs me. And I was like, ah. And so I, like, ran away from him, back to my group of friends. And I was like, this fucking guy over here was telling me to move over. And he heard that. And as I was leaving, he grabbed me again. He goes, I heard what you were saying, you. But then my bigger friends grabbed him. So I was lucky in that situation. So, I mean, it's a lot of things like that where I'm like, a coward, essentially.

[Millie De Chirico]

So that is so insane to hear somebody say that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But I think, you know, being a man is a little bit different. You do. When you walk around in the world, you do feel a little more like. You have to be. Men can be kind of, like, more aggressive towards you, like, whether they, like, hit you with their shoulder, just like, walking down the street to kind of just be like, what's up? You know, like, stuff like that happens a lot as a man out in the world. And I've always had to. I can't fight someone. I just can't. It can't happen, you know, and. Because I would be killed. So I've always been. Felt like an other to that type of masculinity, you know? So it just. It does. It feels foreign to me, too, I guess, is what I'm saying.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, let me tell you, Casey, I think it's time if. If you ever found yourself in another situation where you got grabbed by some drunk dude at a bar, I think time will come when me and Tony Goldwyn will show up to wherever you're at. I will grow my nails out super long just because it feels like I should do that. And we'll just fight these at the bar.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great.

[Millie De Chirico]

We'll throw them. I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think guy big. There's a certain type of guy that doesn't like a small, little guy, and they want to, like, beat him up when they see him. Like, I remember one time I was walking in Echo park and a guy just came out of a bar and just ran up to me and was like, boom. And punched me right in the stomach and was Kind of like, what's up? And I was like, oh, my God. So. Wow. I don't know.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, you can imagine what they think about women.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Yeah, I can. Very easily.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, I'm sorry to hear that and that. But that is an interesting thing for me because it's. It does feel like. I don't know, it feels like either, like, in my experience with, like, my guy friends, it's either that they run away from movies like this, or they kind of, like, weirdly embrace them in a kind of, like, ironic way or something. Like, it's kind of like they know the masculinity is over the top, and it's kind of, like, cartoonish in a way. And that's kind of what Predator feels like to me. It feels like these, like, guys are just hyper, masculine. Hyper. Like, I mean, kind of just ridiculous at the end of the day.

[Casey O'Brien]

But that's what makes everyone's muscles look incredible. Like Carl Weathers arms and chest. I was like, oh, my God, he looks like a cartoon he man character, you know?

[Millie De Chirico]

And I want to talk about the meme, the famous meme of the two of the, like. Because it happens very early on in the film where it's basically like. Like Carl Weathers meets Arnold in the office or whatever. And they're like, what's up, brother? And, like, the two. They look like two pigs on a spit. Like, just these two arms come into the frame. And like, their shirts, their tight shirts are, like, hugging the curves of their muscles. And it's just. You just see these two guys, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, what a great directing choice. We needed actually a two shot of just their arms.

[Millie De Chirico]

But. But it's like, to me, I love that that became memed because it just was like. It was a ridiculous shot. Like, in a moment where you're like, oh, that is crazy how it's focused. Other arms is so weird to see, but funny. And funny is what I kind of mean by that.

[Casey O'Brien]

But, yeah, anyway, it's cartoonish for that reason, but it's also cartoonish. Like, when they go into, like, quote, unquote, save these hostages, they blow this place up to, like. I'm like, I can't believe this scene is still, like, how much. How many explosions? How many people are being shot with, like, machine guns? I was like, how would any hostage survive this situation?

[Millie De Chirico]

We gotta talk about this. Because I actually did a little bit of research on this. So in the film Jesse, the body, right, has what they nicknamed Old Painless. Okay. Which is what? Like, and I don't know if I'm actually saying this right, but a. It's a. It's a weapon that is called the M134 Minigun.

[Vera Drew]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie De Chirico]

Now, from what I've read, this gun, it was typically on airplanes. Like, this was like a thing that, you know, because basically, if you see it, you know what I'm talking about, it's basically like a huge gun that has, you know, this, like, rotating chamber that has, like, a bunch of holes in it. And it's like they used it in Terminator 2 as well.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's like it would be on the back of a plane, someone holding it with two hands, like shooting down planes, that kind of thing. That's what it looks like.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. And it's basically like, shoots like 20,000 rounds per second or something. It's like just an absolute killing, destroying machine. And according to what I read, too, it's actually impossible to carry this gun as a human being. Like, it's only meant for other machines. Right. But that. They changed it for the film or something that. That he was able to carry it. Because think about this. They're, like, traipsing through the jungle, covering a lot of ground, and this guy's carrying his humongous minigun as if he's, you know, it's just kind of like a little baby rifle or something. And listen, I am no authority on guns, but I. I always think whenever I see something like this. Because now these. This gun has been in other films. I'm like, it's just so unbelievably ridiculous that it gets used in movies. Like, I'm just like, this is so ridiculously, cartoonishly stupid. And the minute I saw him take that shit out, I was like, there's no way any of these. Any of these hostages are alive. They killed. They just decimated the entire forest. The forest is blown to smithereens, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, it is, like, laughable. I mean, we haven't invoked this name yet, but the beginning of MacGruber is essentially very similar to this movie. The beginning of this movie. Like, the way they assemble the team and the amount of guns and stuff they have.

[Millie De Chirico]

But Gruber is brilliant. As we've got both got a record.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, I'm gonna keep moving on here with the plot.

[Millie De Chirico]

Go, go.

[Casey O'Brien]

So they've taken out this gorilla encampment, but they don't know that they are being hunted by an alien. The titular predator is following them. Now. He has a cloaking device, so he's invisible. You can't see him. But he's been watching them the whole time, and he starts kind of picking guys off as they're sort of escaping through the jungle. They kill Hawkins, played by Shane Black. I add, parenthetically, thank God, he kills Jesse Ventura. And now they're like, oh, fuck, there's something out there. That's when Bill Duke is like, oh, there's like an alien out there. I saw some weird thing kill Jesse Ventura. And we got to figure out what's going on with this fucker.

[Millie De Chirico]

You know, Bill Duke is my favorite character in this movie, by the way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. And now you said you asked the question, why is Bill Duke shaving?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Do you know?

[Casey O'Brien]

No. That's kind of his tick. This is a very sweaty movie. Everyone is, like, so wet. It is so unbelievable. But he just has a little plastic Bic shaver and is just sort of constantly shaving.

[Millie De Chirico]

I was like, is he microblading? Like, you remember in Vanderpump Rules where everybody used to make fun of Tom Sandoval for shaving his forehead? Do you remember this?

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't remember that, but.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, my God. So basically every. For years when that show was kicking, you know, Tom Sandoval, one of the characters in Vanderpump Rules, used to shave. Basically do what Bill Duke's doing, and he takes a razor and he just starts shaving his forehead. Everybody's like, what is he doing that for? And it's really like microblading, which is a, you know, kind of popular thing to do. It wasn't popular, I don't think, in the 80s, maybe. I think you could only really do it at, like, if you were gonna go get facials or something. But it was like, it's basically kind of peeling away. It's. It's basically taking blade and kind of peeling away all the little baby hairs, but also, like, kind of like the dead sk. Skin off the surface of your face. And so when you're done, you look all fresh faced and gorgeous. And so, yeah, there's this moment where I was like, is Bill Duke just, you know, trying to keep his skin looking good out here? And I don't know, what's he shaving for? It doesn't make any sense.

[Casey O'Brien]

Out in the jungle. Yeah, that's a great question. Seemed just kind of like a. A little character tip. I don't know.

[Millie De Chirico]

Gross. But yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

What do you think? What, Millie, what do you think of the Predator as a villain? He doesn't come into the movie to, like. It feels like a third of the way into the movie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I know. This is the thing about all these movies that we've done recently is that the ones that I haven't seen in a really long time is that, like, I always assume that the lead character, the villain comes in a lot. Earlier I thought that with Hellraiser 2, you know, it's like that whole, like. Oh, I thought Pinhead was in half the movie. No, I thought that Predator would have shown up. Up way earlier, but didn't. And it's like, not even like he shows up, but it's not his full reveal. Right. Yet. It's like his little glob. His little glob, yeah. So you want to know what I think about Predator as an alien?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Like, I guess would you compare him to, like, others, like killers like Michael Myers or Freddy? Or is he like, more like the alien? What, the xenomorph.

[Millie De Chirico]

The xenomorph.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Like a. He's more of a creature and not a human. Yeah, I guess he's more of a. Actually, I don't know, because here's the thing about Predator that I always, always used to throw me off. Dreadlocks, right? Yeah. Predator has dreads.

[Casey O'Brien]

He does have dreads, which I'm kind.

[Millie De Chirico]

Of like, somebody had to do those dreads, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

That's true.

[Millie De Chirico]

I mean, that's what I assumed. So I'm like, is he human? Like, he's getting his hair done, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

But also he's from space. He's obviously hiding himself. And yeah, to that point, this is the thing that I always thought was so fucked up about Predator is that in a very baseline way, he would be impossible to kill. Right. Under. Under normal circumstances, if you were not an expendable. If you were not Arnold and his cadre of hyper macho dudes. Right. He could never be killed. No one would ever know he was there. And he's just like, shooting rounds in your chest and you're dead and you don't even know where he is. I mean, like, it took Arnold a million years to find out that he had to just cover himself with mud. More on that later. But I'm just saying, like, it's kind of this weird improbability where I'm like, oh, these guys would be dead in five seconds. How did this even go past the first 10 minutes?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, there is something like a little, like, unbelievable. I mean, this whole movie is unbelievable, but it kind of takes you out of it a little bit. When this kind of becomes more clear at the end, he's doing this all for sport.

[Millie De Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

And the only reason he gets defeated is because he's like, oh, this isn't a fair fight. I should get rid of my weapons or something. You know, so it's like the Predator is the one who is saying is, like, giving in and making it easier for his opponents to kill him. And. And so it makes it, like, a little less exciting or not exciting, but, like, a little less. You're, like, less interested in how this is gonna go.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Because I think that's, like, the unfortunate bridge that you have to gap if you're like a screenwriter or like somebody who's making concepts for, like, science fiction movies, is that you have to like to me, in order for just my brain to be able to process the. The world that you build. You can't have it be so completely stacked that. That, you know, you can't imagine. Like, you can't make the villain so powerful that you just. We're all just like, well, that would kill everyone within seconds. Like, there has to be some, you know, level of playing field in that way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And so I always feel with Predator, I'm like, oh, he's like a indestructible. Like, really, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

So I don't know. But we have to have the rest of the movie and we have to have a franchise. So, like. Like, I guess it gets rolled out eventually, but. Yeah. And that jump, at very first, I'm like, oh, they're dead, period.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of them are dead. Did you have anything you wanted to say about Anna Elpida Carillo, who is the only woman in this movie and is kind of their hostage?

[Millie De Chirico]

Of course. Of course I do. You know, this is the interesting thing about this movie is that, like, for all its machoism, it's like, of course they had to bring a woman with them who was a hostage at some point. But then Carl Weathers is like, I.

[Casey O'Brien]

Think she was a gorilla.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, I see.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think she was working with the gorillas. She's just.

[Millie De Chirico]

But she becomes their hostage because basically.

[Casey O'Brien]

She does become their hostage.

[Millie De Chirico]

Carl Weathers is like, she has to come with us because she knows too much or whatever. So then she's just sort of toted along with these fucking dudes. And I was like, the entire time she's around, I'm like, she's hot. Like, I think Arnold kind of wants.

[Casey O'Brien]

To get with her, but there's no, you know, there's no even whiff of romance.

[Millie De Chirico]

I felt like, no, not when you're carrying old painless. Or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

Painless.

[Millie De Chirico]

You can't. There's no time for love at all. But I will say she's gorgeous. Like, I was like, she's gorgeous. And there was a song. This is neither here nor there. But there was, like, a moment where they, like, she's just, like, in a scene, and she, like, flashes this very elegant side boob in her, like, little tank top, and I'm like, damn, I wish I had that. I'd kill for that side boob. It's so elegant.

[Casey O'Brien]

Elegant side boob.

[Millie De Chirico]

Elegant. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, she doesn't provide much to this. They didn't. They didn't make her a very fully formed character. I will say, and I think I've mentioned this on another episode. I do have a Carl Weathers story. He came into our restaurant. He stole a pie pan. He was supposed to return it. He returned it several weeks later, and we were all very mad at him.

[Millie De Chirico]

Him.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I won't get into that.

[Millie De Chirico]

But why do y' all give a. About a pie pan? I would have just.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was an expensive La Cruset pie thing. It was our. It was a restaurant pie. Pie tin.

[Millie De Chirico]

What do you say that? Like, I.

[Casey O'Brien]

It wasn't a pie tin. It was a glass. Oh, yeah, it was glass.

[Millie De Chirico]

Glass. Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah. Anyways, okay, we're moving forward now to Kill the Predator. They set a bunch of booby traps, but it out maneuvers them because he's smart and he's invisible. Dylan, Carl Weathers is killed. Mack, Bill Duke is killed. Arnold is left alone, but he makes a discovery that if he covers his entire body in mud, the predator cannot see him because he only has, like, thermal vision. So he covers his body in mud, and he's entirely invisible to the predator. Now, I want to point out, you know, the predator has, like, laser eyes, and he lasers Carl Weathers, and Carl Weathers fucking arm blows off. But there's, like. He does the exact same thing to Arnold. And Arnold's like, ooh, ah. And Arnold just gets, like, a little scratch, and you never see him tend to that wound again later. So I thought that was kind of funny.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, that's because in the. When you see the. The arm contrast at the beginning of the movie, Arnold's again is the bigger. The bigger pig. Like his. Yeah, his pig on a spit is huge. And I do.

[Casey O'Brien]

I do appreciate that they don't. They always do this with movies with, like, the Rock. And they do do this with Arnold, too, but it's like, I'm glad they didn't give Arnold Like a storyline where he's like. Like, I get back. I gotta get back to my daughter, who I love. Or, like, some weird backstory that, like, makes us sensitive to him, you know?

[Vera Drew]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I hate when people do that. Like, or like, when movies do that to, like, be like, he's got more going on below the surface. They don't do any of that. They don't have any of that pretense in this movie. They don't have time. Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

You don't want. You don't want the whole reason for him to be out there to be like the Alyssa Milano character from Commando or something, right? Yes. Just let him just be an enigma, a military enigma.

[Casey O'Brien]

He doesn't do assassinations, though. So that means he. Yeah, he's got a soul.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, and I want to talk to you a little bit about the Predator tech, which in 2025 looks like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Huh.

[Millie De Chirico]

I mean, that's. He thermal seeking that.

[Casey O'Brien]

The fact that he can only see, like, thermally. I'm like, that seems like a big hindrance for all of his tools and stuff.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know. I mean, here's. How is that it's actually kind of surprising that he doesn't have more to do in that way. Like, I'm like, he should be a little bit more sophisticated. He's from space. Like, come on. And then you get this, like, little blurry, little infrared. I mean, it's like. I mean, I know at the time that tech was probably like 8k or whatever.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

But I was like, man, this is. When you look through his perspective, you're like, I can't see out here. Really?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So, yeah. What was the last thing that John McTiernan directed? Because he directed Die Hard, obviously, and Predator. But, see, he's only 74. You think he would still. Is he making anything? Let me see. He directed a movie in 2003 that was the last movie he directed. A movie called Basic.

[Millie De Chirico]

Is he in jail?

[Casey O'Brien]

Isn't that interesting?

[Millie De Chirico]

He was pled guilty in 2006 to lying to an FBI investigator. Incarcerated John McTiernan. Am I wrong with.

[Casey O'Brien]

He had legal trouble. Oh, my God. He was in jail.

[Millie De Chirico]

He directed. In 2017. He directed a video game ad or something. But, yeah, it seems like he had legal trouble. Seems like he had bankruptcy. And Maybe that's why McTiernan pleaded guilty.

[Casey O'Brien]

To lying to an FBI investigator in regard to hiring a private investigator in 2000 to illegally wiretap the phone calls of two people, one of whom was Charles Roven, a co producer on his movie Rollerball. That's insane.

[Vera Drew]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

He hired Anthony Pellicano. Right? That was like the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Don't you find that insane? I didn't know any of this.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, crazy. Well, there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay, so he was busy. It's just not making movies.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I'd say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, he was hanging around with these muscle men too much. Kind of corrupted his brain, I guess.

[Millie De Chirico]

There you go.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Anyways, let's get to the end of the movie. Arnold's covered in mud. He injures the Predator, destroying his cloaking device. Arnold, he sets some more booby traps, but smarter ones this time. And the Predator, this is where the Predator's like, I see you as a worthy adversary. Let me throw away all my weapons and we'll just fight each other hand to hand. Wow. And then he gets killed by Arnold.

[Millie De Chirico]

What a dumbass.

[Casey O'Brien]

What a dumbass. I just don't like that. That happens all the time where, like, I don't like when the villain gets kind of, like, tricked or, like, I don't like that kind of stuff.

[Millie De Chirico]

You don't like. You don't like it when Ingo Mantoya from the Princess Bride is like, here's a sword. Fight me. Like, it's like he gives up his advantage to be fair. You don't like that?

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't. Because I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, I don't like that. Well, he's not even a villain, but, like, villains do that. It's like, let's make things a little more interesting. It's like, get out. Do it.

[Millie De Chirico]

That's because they. They are all. I mean, they're all about the pageantry. And honestly, like, for me, like, no. Nope, It's. It's survival in these streets. If I have an advantage somehow, which I never have, I'm using that. But also, it begs a question about Predator as an alien, where it makes me think, well, then what's his motivation? Like, why does he give a About. About being fair at all? What about his race of beings on his planet or whatever are they. Maybe he's not as. As. As evil of a baddie as.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Maybe he comes from, you know, a society where they believe in. About sportsmanship.

[Vera Drew]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

He has a code of ethics. I don't know. You remember in Austin Powers When Dr. Evil has Austin Powers and he's like. Puts him on that table to get killed by a laser, and Seth Green's like, why don't you just shoot him?

[Millie De Chirico]

Yes, exactly.

[Casey O'Brien]

And Dr. Evil's like, you just. You don't get it, do you? You really don't.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's the drama of it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right? It's the drama, I guess. Oh, golly. And then the Predator sets off a bomb. But Arnold, he gets away. The end.

[Millie De Chirico]

The end. Well, because Predator believes in palm and circumstance.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Arnold gets away and it's. Well, here's the thing. As much as I do love this movie, I thought this entire last third was so long.

[Casey O'Brien]

Dude, it is unlike the rest of the movie because it's like dialogue less. It's like a Kelly Reichert movie out there. You know, it's like we're watching Old Joy or something.

[Millie De Chirico]

I was like, what is this Samurai? Why isn't he speaking? This is crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it is long.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, yeah. And I think that, that. I think that that notion is completely underscored by the very. The first two thirds of the movie where it's just a lot of gunfire and loud mouths and crazy hippie one liners and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right, yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And then it turns into this, like, extremely, you know, this like, meditation piece about warfare with no talking. It's like, again, le Samurai or something like that. And I'm like, God damn, this is long. And I kept, like, looking. I kept looking at the. Do you ever do this, by the way, when you're watching a movie and you're like, man, this is taking forever. You, like, click on the little menu and then you look at the bar and be like, oh, the bar is so long until the end of the movie. I still.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do I ever do that? Yeah, every movie I've ever watched at.

[Millie De Chirico]

Home, I press the button and then.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'll pause real quick. Oh, what? Okay, I'm getting a snap back.

[Millie De Chirico]

Like, damn, man, this bar. There's half the bars not been filled in.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I mean, the last. I mean, the end of the movie did feel like Uncle Boon. Me, who can recall his past lives, you know, it's like we're wandering in the jungle.

[Millie De Chirico]

Like, I was like, I don't remember Predator being this boring, frankly. What the hell is going on?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, let me just rank my Predator movies real quick.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, do it, do it, do it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Unless you. Do you have anything else, Millie?

[Millie De Chirico]

What else can I say? I've said everything, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. Okay. This is worst to best, and I haven't. There's one that actually, there's an animated one that came out this year that I haven't seen. And there's a brand new one with Elle Fanning. I also haven't seen that one. That one's not out yet, though. Okay. Number seven, the worst one, the Predator 2018. That was Shane Black's movie. It's just so bad. It thinks it's so funny, and it's just so irritating. And also, Olivia Munn was really upset working on that movie because she discovered that they hired a sexual. A sexual. A convicted sexual predator was working on that movie because he was friends with the director.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, shit, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then number six, aliens versus predator requiem. This was just bad. 2007, it's bad. Then predators from 2010. This is the Adrien Brody predator movie where they go back to the predators, like. Or it's like a different planet. They bring all these convicts. The predator alien race kidnaps a bunch of humans, like, the best, most devious evil ones, and then hunts them. I don't know. It was kind of stupid. Then I would put Prey, which came out in 2022. That's, like, the one that's, like, set, like, hundreds of years ago and includes, like, a bunch of, like, a native population that's getting attacked by the Predator. This one's pretty good. This is on Hulu. This is the latest one. That one's pretty good.

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm writing it down.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then I liked Alien vs Predator, the first one from 2004. It's like a Antarctica movie, and it actually follows the mythology of the Alien movies, so I thought it was pretty good.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. This was like. I remember when this came out, it was like. Like, Freddy versus Jason had just come out.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And I felt like. Like this, like, kind of cool, you know, melding of sort of two ips together to, like, fight each other. So I was, like, kind of excited by it. I was like, oh, man, Alien versus Predator. Must be so fun. And then I just forgot to see it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Well, so it's pretty fun. I'm gonna put it as my third best Predator movie. All right.

[Millie De Chirico]

I'm gonna. I'm gonna watch it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then I put this predator, predator 1987 as my number two favorite.

[Millie De Chirico]

Ooh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Because I really like predator two.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which is from 1990 with Danny Glover. Because it takes place in LA.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Predator in LA.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Predator in la. And he's really rocking shit in Los Angeles.

[Millie De Chirico]

And what neighborhood?

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a good time.

[Millie De Chirico]

What neighborhood?

[Casey O'Brien]

It seemed like Koreatown, and downtown seemed very urban. MacArthur park, maybe.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay. Well, cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyways, that's my definitive list. That's me. If you disagree.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah. Please do dear [e-mail] and tell Casey his taste is shit or it's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Shove it.

[Millie De Chirico]

Fantastic. Well, listen. What a. What a great movie. I'm so Glad I got to see it again. To me, one of the most definitive action movies of the 80s. It's definitely like. Like a lot of 1980s action movies. It's like, very. Feels very tied to the Vietnam era with, like, soldiers. Kind of reminds me of Rambo in that way. Right. Speaking of Sylvester. But honestly, like, Predator as a creature or human or hybrid, whatever you want to call them is. Seems unkillable, I guess, until he's not.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which is until Arnold gets his meaty paws on him.

[Millie De Chirico]

His ham arms. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I. Yeah, this is like. It's so pulpy, and it's like. It's kind of what you want from, like, a muscly action movie. Sci fi action movie. It's kind of the prototype of, like, that type of movie, and it's great. I was. I enjoyed watching it again.

[Millie De Chirico]

Me too. Me too.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, next up, we're going to be talking to Vera Drew about her area of expertise, the woman with no Name. I just have to say I messed up her recording a little bit at the very beginning, so her audio will sound a little different right away, and then it'll sound good for the rest of it. So that was my fault. I'm sorry, Vera, and I'm sorry, audience, that you have to listen to that. But it only is just right at the beginning. So here's our conversation with Vera Drew. All right, everybody, it is another installment of our segment, my area of expertise. And I am very excited to have our guest on today. I'm a huge fan. She is a writer, director, actor, and editor. And the creative force behind the People's Joker. We have Vera Drew. Vera, thank you so much for joining us today.

[Vera Drew]

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks for watching all my hyphenate.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Before we get into your area of expertise, I just wanted to ask you about your movie, the People's Joker. The screening I went to. I live in Minneapolis now. Millie and I both lived in LA for a long time, but I live in Minneapolis now. And the screening I went to here was, like, electric. It was insane. I mean, people were really, like, hooting and hollering during the whole screening. And I think it's a testament to how much your movie has connected with people. What is it like as an artist and as a person to have something that you've made that's so hyper personal to you, connect with so many people and have it understood and accepted and celebrated in that way? What is that like for you? Just sort of on a personal, emotional level?

[Vera Drew]

Well, I really wasn't prepared for it in. In any. Any way. I mean, like, I. It's obviously, I think all you could want, like. Like, especially, like, from the first movie you make, you know, but. But kind of never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that. That, like, the first thing that I would ever make, you know, the first, like, feature film I'd ever make, like, would. Would have that kind of response. I think I feel very emboldened by it because it was a movie that really was, like. Yeah, it was a movie I needed to make for myself to sort of, like, understand my life. And, you know, the fact that I kind of consciously tried to break every single rule I was taught, like, as, like, a gun for hire, like, editor and writer and producer and stuff, like, it really kind of validated the fact that, like, okay, like, I guess I know what I'm doing and, like, I guess the sort of, like, assignment for like, what. The kind of stuff I'm gonna make going forward are going to be, like, pretty personal. Personal project.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, let's move on. You know, we brought you here to talk about your area of expertise, and you pitched a. Got me. My brain buzzing. The area of expertise you pitched is what you called the Woman with no Name. Can you kind of elaborate on what that means to you?

[Vera Drew]

So, yeah, I don't. I want to qualify all this as, like. I don't think this is, like, a film archetype that I've discovered. I'm. Somebody way smarter than me has, like, written about this or, like, noticed this. The idea came to me, like, the last time I was watching Showgirls, which is, like, really, like, one of my favorite movies of all time is, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

We've discussed it very recently on this show, so it's very fresh in our minds.

[Vera Drew]

It's like. It's so good, right? Like, it's.

[Millie De Chirico]

It's.

[Vera Drew]

It is crazy that, like, people ever thought it was, like, bad, like. Because, like, it's. It's clear that it's just, like. I don't know, it just. There was nothing like it. And, like, culture was just so horrible at the time that, like, you'd watch a movie like that. But, like, I remember, like, watching it this last time and having a really emotional experience watching it, because it. I. It kind of clicked into place for me that like. Like, Nomi is just, like, one of the most sympathetic characters in, like, film history. And, like, the reason she is, is because she actually, like, kind of follows this, like, Clint Eastwood, like, antihero archetype. Where she's, like a chaotic, like, you know, protagonist in, like, the heaviest quotes. Like, she is like a crackhead in it. Like, literally like a crackhead in it. And, like. But we, you know, when we meet her, we get this sense that it's like, there's this whole story we're not seeing, and even by the end, we don't really know what happened to her. So, like, the idea is almost like the Woman with no Name is sort of that, like, it's borrowed from, like, the Dollars trilogy, like, man with no Name, where it's like, it's this character that feels like an anthologized character that we'd see in some sort of series. But there is no additional prequel material that paints their lore or mythology or backstory. It's literally just. We just feel that shit went down. And I think for me, it was kind of the thing I kept thinking about on revisiting that movie. And then that coming up was like, it's basically like if, like, Clint Eastwood wandered into, like, a Star Is Born instead of a saloon, or, like, if Dutch from Predator was a sex worker instead of a Vietnam vet. It kind of follows these, like, same, like, hyper mask, hyper violent tropes that you'd see and stuff like that.

[Millie De Chirico]

When you brought this up, the first thing I kind of thought of, and I know that this has changed because there's been subsequent films, but when I first watched Mad Max, Fury Road, and Furiosa kind of shows up and you're like, what is the story here? And, you know, she kind of embodies that sort of Western archetype in that way. I mean, obviously it's in the desert, too, which helps. But then you're just sort of wondering, like, where she comes from and, like, what her story is. And then, you know, obviously they made Furiosa the next movie, and they kind of tied up some of those loose ends, but she definitely dropped in feeling like she was an anthologized character to me. Yeah. I don't know if you thought that or if you'd seen it, but is that something?

[Vera Drew]

No, I had. I mean, like, I don't. I think, like, that's, like, a perfect example because, like. And I think, like, it's a perfect example, too, because, like, it's like, it colors the whole movie ultimately. Like, we have this pathway in the characters sort of being this comic book. Oh, there's all this lore here that we're not really seeing. Immediately makes the entire reality. I mean, I remember when I saw Mad Max when I Saw Fury Road the first time. Just, like, feeling, like, a lightning storm in my head or something. Just this world of, like, oh, my God, like, water's being rationed and there's, like, these, like, women kept in this, like, vault that are, like, forced birthers. Like, it's just being like. And she's like. She's, like, the link. The link into that. And, like, also, I think because, I mean, I qualified all of this as, like, I don't know that this is necessarily, like, a trope that I've noticed because, like, I do think to some degree, like, this is, like, a femme fatale type. But, like, it's not necessarily. I think the thing that, like. Like, I think the woman with no name can be a femme fatale, but I also think, like, the thing that, like, makes her distinct from just being. That is, like, it's kind of a main character. It's kind of a character. It's a character that's sort of propelling the story forward and also is kind of the most compelling character in the film. They're not, like, outside of the moral center of the movie either, because another one that comes to mind is it's another movie that I hadn't seen until, like, very recently. Like, I was always a big fan of Texas Chainsaw Massacre, like, the first one, but the. I recently, like, worked my way through all of the sequels, which are amazing. Like, I don't know about the reboot ones, like, that happened in the 2000s. But, like. Like, those, like, that OG, like, you know, 70s through 90s Texas Chainsaw sequels are, like. They're all good. And I think my favorite one is the one with Matthew McConaughey, the next generation. And the final girl in it is this girl, Jenny. And it's like, she's just bonkers. There's no understanding her motivation at all. Like, she seems, like, kind of, like, outside. She's, like, operating outside of, like, the tropes of, like, a final girl. And, like, is also just, like, propelling the story forward in this way where, like, she. You know. Because by the end of that movie, like, you basically find out that, like, the family from Texas Chainsaw Massacre is, like, some sort of psyop that the literal Illuminati is, like, in charge of and shit. Like, it's so. And I think, like, that's the thing with this kind of trope. It's, like, it allows you to kind of move through this, like, this crazy. This crazy reality that is ever unraveling.

[Casey O'Brien]

Another character that I was thinking about Was Trinity from the Matrix? Because it feels like she has this whole other story before the Matrix begins. There could be a whole other movie about that. And she's just sort of dropped into the Matrix fully formed. Yeah.

[Vera Drew]

I hadn't even thought of her, but that is such a good one. Cause, yeah, it's like she's just totally dropped in and also is, like, there's no questioning that she's good at what she does. There's no, like, it doesn't need to be. I actually, I mean, speaking of the Wachowskis, I just rewatched Bound a couple days ago.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, Gina gershon and bound.

[Vera Drew]

100%.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely.

[Vera Drew]

I think they both. They both are actually. Because, like, to some degree, too. It's crazy. It's so like, God, what a fucking good movie. Like, and what a.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, oh, so good.

[Vera Drew]

Just speaking of, like, anomalies, like, it's crazy that that movie existed when it did. But.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Vera Drew]

But, yeah, like, when we meet. When we meet Jenna Gerson or Corky.

[Casey O'Brien]

Corky.

[Vera Drew]

I gotta say her name.

[Millie De Chirico]

Of course.

[Vera Drew]

She just got out of jail. We don't know any reason why. We just know that she, like, stole some stuff. Like, and that's kind of it. She's also playing, like, a jaw harp the entire time, which I think, like, I don't know, that kind of counts as part of the trope for me because it's like, I don't know, it's not quite a cigarette. It's not quite like a cowboy with a cigarette or whatever. But Violet's character, her character, too.

[Casey O'Brien]

It.

[Vera Drew]

Has that full of secrets thing. Like, and even by the end of the movie, you know, there's an interpretation of that movie that is just like, this is pure, like, romance, love story. But you could watch it and walk away from it going like, Violet played everybody. Like, she literally was, like, manipulating the entire situation. I have no idea if she's actually a lesbian or if she's just, like, kind of using all these people to get out of the mob.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Vera Drew]

And I don't know. And I don't, like, fault her for it. Like, I, I.

[Casey O'Brien]

You could see her popping up in another movie completely without, you know, like, yeah, Gina Corky. We were talking about David Lynch a lot before we started recording, but I do feel like he employs that for a lot of. Maybe not his, like, protect. I mean, I think you mentioned Mulholland Drive in your email and. But also, I was just sort of, like, thinking through his other movies. I mean, like, you brought up Inland Empire. But also like Joan Chen and Twin Peaks. Her character is very like, who, where is she from? Who, what she? You kind of learn about her past, but there's like, it feels like there's a lot more there. And also Dorothy Valens from Blue Velvet. It feels like there's a lot happening. You could see a whole other movie made before that movie about her.

[Vera Drew]

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. No, I mean like it's gotta be. It's gotta be. I also, I wanna come back to that. But before I forget, just. Cause like it keeps, like it keeps leaving my mind and then coming back. But I almost think for me, like I said, like this idea crystallized for me the most recent time I watched Showgirls. But like if I trace it back even further, like I, the first time I hadn't. The first Terminator I ever saw was Terminator 2.

[Millie De Chirico]

Me too.

[Vera Drew]

And like, it's like, yes, I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

That'S a lot of people.

[Vera Drew]

But it's crazy because like that's a lot of people. And when you think about it, it's like you're having the experience of like you're meeting Linda Hamill, you're meeting Sarah Connor while she's doing pull ups in a mental institution.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know.

[Vera Drew]

Like, that is so fucking awesome. And it just being like it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that like we don't know that she was a waitress or who the hell Kyle Reese is or anything like that. Like, I almost think like the like tendrils of like whatever this, this, this like obsession because I, I'm so hesitant to call it an expertise. I've, I've seen so many movies and I'm, I'm so self haiti that I'm always like. But I think it's just because I don't always know all the deep cuts. And I've brought up a Late Texas Chainsaw sequel here.

[Millie De Chirico]

But.

[Vera Drew]

I think that is, I love this idea of you can meet a female character who is just completely as flawed as a male character because that's what character is. I think that's the other piece of all this. It's like. And not to bring it back to a plug or whatever, but I mean one of the things that was like when I first started screening my movie occasionally and it stopped happening pretty quick, but occasionally I would get asked this question of like, why would you make a trans character like a villain? And for me it was always this thing of like, it's like, what am I supposed to like, what kind of character? Like, what Kind of trans character am I supposed to make? Like, I wanna make a trans character that's flawed. Like, characters are flawed. Like, we come into a movie watching a character that requires some sort of change or some sort of journey. And I think so often women characters and queer characters and things like that, they're not allowed to start from this flawed, imperfect place. I mean, Joan Chen's character in Twin Peaks is a perfect example that I hadn't thought of because we know instantly that there's something up. We don't know if she killed Laura Palmer, but, like, it's. By the end of it being like, oh, she's like a girl who was, like, literally stuck in this pattern of, like, forced sex work. And, like. And, like, then, like, just. Just became this, like, fucking badass, like, manipulator. And then she became, like, a doorknob or something.

[Millie De Chirico]

Doorknob.

[Vera Drew]

Yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

Insane. Insane. That's my favorite part of her story, is the little knob.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think she's the first. I could be wrong about this, but I think she's the first character we see in Twin Peaks, the show. Yeah, she is absolutely interesting.

[Vera Drew]

It's crazy, too, because, like, I mean, obviously this is a movie podcast, but, like, Twin Peaks counts as movies. Like, especially the movie.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, we talk about it that all the time. So I feel like it counts.

[Vera Drew]

The way she does end up showing up in the Return, I wish Joan. I have a few criticisms of the Return, ultimately. One of them being like, I. I wish. I wish they found more of a role for Ray Wise. And, like, I also really wish, like, Joan Chen could have been it, just because I think she's fucking brilliant. But, like, they do show her again. They show, like, old footage of her, like, from the series. And, like, it's. It's such a crazy reminder that, like, when that show starts, like, you're introduced and you're introduced to Josie, and then, like, there's just a dead girl washed up on the shore. Like, there's an interpretation where it's like, she's one of the main characters of the show.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Vera Drew]

But, yeah, I also. Another one that I had. This is, like, a super problematic one, but, like, I don't really care. That's kind of my shit. Like, the. In Escape from la, Pam Grier plays a trans. A trans woman. And it's like. I mean, like, if. If you just got excited.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've seen this movie within the last two years. I did not remember that.

[Vera Drew]

It's.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's so wild.

[Vera Drew]

It's like a block out of Your memory situation. Because, like, it's not handled in a way that's, like, tasteful at all. And, like, it does, like. Like, Snake does not like her either. Like, he keeps misgendering her. He keeps, like, being like, whatever, pal. Like, I don't know about this, but, like, he. It's.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's kind of.

[Vera Drew]

It kind of, like, works because, like, you really just, like, get the sense that, like. Because, like, the.

[LEGO Star Wars Advertiser]

In the.

[Vera Drew]

In the story, they were. They were partners. Like, they were partners in Detroit and, like, they were on some job and Pam Grier's character, like, fucked it all up or whatever. I'm like. It's like, you just get the sense that, like, these two, like, had a really bad history. Like, I mean, like, it's not cool for Snake Plissken to be, like, misgendering a trans woman, but maybe we should, like, listen to his feelings because clearly this was not a good. This is not a good, like, partner in crime for him. That's one where it's like, I would give anything to see, like, some sort of spinoff of that. I mean, now they would never do it.

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God.

[Vera Drew]

Probably shouldn't, but yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God. Well, Vera, this has been wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on the show to talk about your area of expertise and your movie. Is there anything else besides the People's Joker that you want people to check out? Right now?

[Vera Drew]

I have some plugs. The People's Joker is on Mubi, but you can also find it in other legally precarious ways if that's more your jam or if you're don't want to shell out subscription fee. It also is available on physical media and our physical media run of it is so good, we have it on vhs. I panned and scanned it on VHS myself. It also is on Blu Ray. It's loaded with special features. Highly recommend you check that out if you. If you're into the movie or if you, like, haven't seen it, seen it before. Like, that's the perfect, perfect way to watch it. And we still screen it all the time. If you want to screen it somewhere in your area, just hit me up on Instagram or Blue sky or Twitter. I still go on there sometimes. Vera drew 22. I also want to plug two movies that I worked on. I just edited Alice Mayo McKay's new movie, which is called the Serpent's Skin, and it is so good. It is her best movie. It's like a psycho, witchy, lesbian, toxic romance movie and is a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun to put together. And I'm also in a movie that Josh Fadem starred in and friend of the show.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's been on the show.

[Millie De Chirico]

We love Josh.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fucking love Josh Fatum. So much.

[Vera Drew]

Like, Josh Fadem is one of the best we have. He's pure, just so pure. And his best work is ahead of him. But we're in a movie together called Every Heavy Thing that's premiering at Beyond Fest next month.

[Casey O'Brien]

Amazing. Yeah.

[Vera Drew]

So check that out if you look around.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ah, incredible. I miss Beyond Fest. Me too.

[Millie De Chirico]

I love going to that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Vera, thank you so much. And, yeah, good luck with everything.

[Millie De Chirico]

Thanks for stopping.

[Vera Drew]

Thanks for having me. This was a lot of fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, we're back for employees picks film recommendations based on the theme of our discussion. Millie, what is your pick, fellow employee?

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, because we just talked about Arnold and because you had mentioned that you did not see any of the Conan movies From the early 80s, I have to recommend Conan the Destroyer from 1984. And, you know, people have their opinions or their tolerance levels for what they call sword and sandal movies, which is basically like just what you imagine. Guys that wear sandals that wield swords. And there's kind of this, like, sorcery or fantasy element to it or whatever. It's a sequel to Conan the Barbarian, which came out a couple years before. And, you know, it's kind of like, man, it is like a display of Arnold's body in a way that you just, like, cannot fathom. Like, he just looks like. He looks like a goddamn Hercules. And, you know, he's got like a little. He's got his hair long and he's got, you know, his little headband on or whatever. But it's great. And I love Coda the Destroyer more than the Barbarian. I just think just too. Is Red Sonja part of it? I feel like Red Sonja was directed by the same guy, Richard Fleischer, who did Conan the Destroyer. So maybe that's the tie. And it's also, you know, again, assorted sandal movie. But Conan the Destroyer is super fun. Over the top. Grace Jones is in it. That's probably the most memorable character besides Wilt Chamberlain.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know. It's fantastic, though. Like, I. It is so much fun. Again, Arnold in his prime. In his prime.84. That's when Terminator came out. Like, he is ready to go. So I don't know if you're gonna enter the world of these movies. I would say just. Just go to Conan the Destroyer. You'll sure, sure, sure. I.

[Casey O'Brien]

One thing I really appreciate about Arnold is that I actually feel like he sought out good directors on occasion. And also I liked that he made sci fi movies. Like he really did move towards sci fi, including Predator, I suppose. But one of my favorites of his sci fi movies is Total Recall by Paul Verhoeven. I mean, we're on, we, we've gone on record on this podcast. We love Paul Verhoeven and Total Recall is great. Set on Mars. It's kind of a trippy, real sci fi movie. And I don't think a movie would like, that would get made if. Unless Arnold attached himself to that movie. You know what I mean? So I think it's really cool that he did that and made that movie. And it's great. It's just like very imaginative and weird and dark and set on Mars. And I love Total Recall. I want to watch it again.

[Millie De Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's my wreck.

[Millie De Chirico]

Super fun. I think the most iconic thing I've ever seen in an ARL movie is when his. He comes into the little airport as the lady and then his face disassembles and it's him.

[Casey O'Brien]

Huh. I thought you were going to say the three boobed woman, because that was very enticing too.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah, I love a three boob woman. She's super hot, man.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have you ever heard the expression martinis are like boobs on a woman? One's not enough and three is too many. Have you ever heard that?

[Millie De Chirico]

No, I've never heard that in my entire life.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think I heard. I think that line is in the movie Parallax View. I don't know why I remember that, but it is in there.

[Millie De Chirico]

Well, I don't even really drink martinis unless they have 20 olives in them, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie De Chirico]

Okay. There you go.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, thank you for talking about Predator with me. What a delight. Thank you, Vera Drew, for coming on and talking about the woman with no name.

[Millie De Chirico]

Absolutely.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was a fun conversation.

[Millie De Chirico]

That was awesome.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's so cool.

[Millie De Chirico]

What to talk about next week maybe?

[Casey O'Brien]

I would love to touch upon next week.

[Millie De Chirico]

We got a big holiday coming up, huh?

[Casey O'Brien]

My least favorite holiday.

[Millie De Chirico]

Same here. Yes. We're gonna talk.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm glad we're in agreeance. That's fun.

[Millie De Chirico]

I feel like, you know, we don't have to agree on everything, but the most important things are that Halloween is great, Christmas is great, and Thanksgiving should go to hell.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hell, yeah.

[Millie De Chirico]

And we're gonna be talking about Thanksgiving movies or, you know, movies that are set around or in Thanksgiving. And so we're gonna talk about Ogle's 1997 movie, the Ice Storm. Gonna have a lot to say about that movie. It's a favorite of mine, so it's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Can't wait to watch it again. It's been a few years.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

My friend and co worker, Kara Klank, the comedian Kara Klank, co host of that's Messed Up. This movie was shot in her hometown.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, wow. Is it New Haven, Connecticut?

[Casey O'Brien]

I believe so.

[Millie De Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've never been to Connecticut.

[Millie De Chirico]

Me neither. I was afraid that they wouldn't, like, let me in or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would be. I was afraid they were gonna be too excited to have me there. Enthusiastically.

[Millie De Chirico]

We love. We love this guy. Okay, well, you know, that's the show. If you want to email us for any reason, if you want film advice from us, if you need a recommendation for something movie related, if you have a film gripe, if you have a consensual film grope, if you have a film regret, also known as a film grit, please write [e-mail] and you can.

[Casey O'Brien]

Also send us a voicemail. Just record a voicemail on your phone, keep it under a minute, and email it to DearMoviesactlyRightMedia.com we need some more questions. We've been getting some good ones, but we need more. So please write in. And here's my guarantee moving forward from this point on. I've been really on top of the emails lately. If you write in, it will either be featured on the show or I will respond to it.

[Millie De Chirico]

There you go.

[Casey O'Brien]

That is my guarantee for now.

[Millie De Chirico]

A money back guarantee. I love. Yes, well, and also, please follow us on social media. We are at dearmovies I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Listen, we really need you to follow us on Instagram. Okay? We need you. We love you. We. We post about the episodes, we have lively discussions. We do verticals, as they call them. It's great. Like, like, follow us there. Dear Movies, I love you. And then we're also on letterboxd as ourselves at Casey Lee o' Brien and at M. De Chirico.

[Casey O'Brien]

Listen to Dear Movies, I love you on the iHeartRadio app, El Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts and rate and review our show, please. Actually, Millie, I have one last thing I want to plug, plug it. So in 2012, I started working on a feature film with my friends. It's called Pockets. And we finished filming in like 2014. We did it, like on weekends and I just finished it last year and you can watch it on Vimeo right now. I did the whole score. I shot it, I edited it, I directed it. And it's kind of a fun time capsule of 2012, but it's sort of a spooky movie. It's in black and white, there's no dialogue, but it is about a girl who goes back to her room in her apartment and everything is missing.

[Millie De Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

She doesn't know why. And it's sort of noirish. Little Lynchian. Check it out on my Instagram page, Asylee o', Brien, and watch it. It's kind of fun. Check it out.

[Millie De Chirico]

Intriguing. I want to know more. Congratulations on finishing, by the way. I know how hard it is to finish creative projects.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it was hard because there was no. I had to redo the sound and the entire score myself.

[Millie De Chirico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

And that took a really long time, but I did it. And it's.

[Millie De Chirico]

Congratulations.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think it's pretty good. I think it's kind of a fun little. It's like an hour, 16 minutes.

[Millie De Chirico]

Oh, that's good. That's good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyways, check it out.

[Millie De Chirico]

Awesome. Well, on that note, thanks everybody for listening. You're the best. Bye bye everyone. This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie De Chirico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breyfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie De Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you, thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgarith, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Chirico.

[Millie De Chirico]

We love you. Goodbye.

[Casey O'Brien]

Be kind.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser]

There's no championship league for small business owners, but if there was, you'd be at the top of the the standings. Because going pro with Lenovo Pro means you've got the winning formation. One on one advice. IT solutions and customized hardware powered by Intel Core Ultra processors help you stay ahead of the competition. Business goes pro with Lenovo Pro. Sign up for [e-mail] Pro Lenovo Lenovo.

[Millie De Chirico]

Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser]

Most of my money.

[Millie De Chirico]

Getting 5% cash back when I pay in 4. No fees, no interest.

[Lenovo Pro Advertiser]

I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my.

[Millie De Chirico]

Sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with Paypal. Save the offer in the app ends.

[Casey O'Brien]

1231 see paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more. Paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 when you.

[LEGO Star Wars Advertiser]

Say LEGO Star wars, the first thing you think of is imagination or action. Or both. Definitely both. Like with Jango Fett's Starship, I mean, with Stud Blasters, Seismic charges and three minifigures, your kid is gonna be creating stories until the Banthas come home. And for yourself, there's the Jango Fett's Firespray Class Starship LEGO set from the Ultimate Collector series. Enjoy some Jedi Master level mindfulness during your building time. Shop now for Star wars lego sets on lego.com or in lego retail stores.