Psychobilly Adjacent Cowboy Shirt

Summary

Episode Summary: Psychobilly Adjacent Cowboy Shirt

Podcast Information:

• Title: Dear Movies, I Love You
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Episode: Psychobilly Adjacent Cowboy Shirt
• Release Date: October 22, 2024

Hosts: Millie De Cherico and Danielle Henderson

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Introduction

In this episode of Dear Movies, I Love You, hosts Millie De Cherico and Danielle Henderson delve into their recent experiences attending live concerts, sharing personal anecdotes and reflections on the evolving concert culture post-pandemic. Transitioning seamlessly, they introduce the episode's theme: sisters are doing it for themselves, focusing on two compelling films—Monster (2003) and Morvern Collar (2002)—that explore complex female protagonists navigating trauma and societal expectations.

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Concert Experiences and COVID Recovery

Danielle Henderson kicks off the conversation with an update on their upcoming live show:

[00:00] Danielle: "Hey, guys. Just a reminder that we are doing our first ever live show at the Tara theater in Atlanta, Georgia on November 7th..."

The hosts discuss their recovery from the prolonged lockdown caused by COVID-19, highlighting the challenges and changes in their lives. Danielle reflects on the premature lifting of restrictions:

[01:09] Danielle: "I truly enjoyed every time I get to be amongst people. I feel like it's cool."

Millie De Cherico shares her anticipation of receiving a booster shot, emphasizing the financial barrier:

[01:58] Millie: "I was like, did they used to give this out for free? Yeah, now it's $200. Okay, whatever."

They contrast the robust COVID relief measures in Japan with the for-profit approach in the United States, expressing admiration for Japan's comprehensive support:

[02:07] Danielle: "What you get in Japan if you have Covid... That's what you get in Japan."

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Concert Culture: Pits, Security, and Personal Experiences

The conversation shifts to the intense demands of the music industry post-lockdown, with Danielle sharing her exhausting experiences at concerts:

[03:21] Danielle: "It's ruining my body. Like, I am so fucking broken down tired."

They discuss the resurgence of high-energy pit scenes at concerts. Danielle recounts her experience at an Idols concert in Forest Hills, Queens, describing the chaos and exhilaration:

[04:38] Danielle: "...I have the biggest crush on one of their guitarists right now."

Millie admits her apprehension about crowd surfing, sharing a vivid story of losing her Psychobilly Adjacent Cowboy Shirt:

[08:06] Millie: "I was standing in the front and then all of a sudden a pit forms around me... Blood went splattering across my crisp, white psychobilly adjacent cowboy shirt..."

They commend the improved security measures at modern venues, praising the empathetic and supportive approach compared to the aggressive tactics of the past:

[18:22] Danielle: "High five to all security work in these venues. This is not how it used to be."

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Personal Aspirations and Lighthearted Banter

In a humorous exchange, Danielle expresses her desire to find a British partner, blending personal aspirations with playful commentary:

[27:34] Danielle: "...let me be friends with Charlize Theron. That's all I ask."

Millie encourages her friend with supportive laughter:

[28:53] Millie: "Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it's easier than possible to manifest a person that lives in another country."

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Movie Theme Introduction: Sisters Are Doing It for Themselves

The hosts introduce the week's theme, focusing on films that highlight women's autonomy and complex emotional landscapes through themes of crime and personal struggle:

[30:30] Danielle: "Our theme is sisters are doing it for themselves, and by it, we mean murder."

They select two films that epitomize this theme—Monster and Morvern Collar—both directed by women, emphasizing the importance of female perspectives in storytelling.

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Discussion of Monster (2003)

Millie De Cherico provides an in-depth analysis of Monster, directed by Patty Jenkins and starring Charlize Theron as Eileen Wuornos.

Overview and Transformation:

[36:07] Millie: "Monster is the story of Eileen Wuornos... Charlize Theron’s transformation is completely undeniable."

Patty Jenkins' Approach:

[36:52] Danielle: "Patty Jenkins wrote to Eileen Wuornos while she was in jail... she felt a responsibility to direct the movie."

Charlize Theron's Performance:

[34:13] Danielle: "Charlize is like her signature role. She has an incredible transformation—where she's definitely not just acting but embodying someone else."

Critique of Christina Ricci’s Role:

[50:09] Danielle: "Christina Ricci's character, Selby, felt too selfish and bratty, which sometimes pulled me out of the narrative."

Themes: Trauma and Societal Failures:

[42:32] Millie: "The movie hones in on the desperation of poor people and systemic failures that trap individuals like Wuornos."

Notable Quotes:

• [34:14] Millie: "It's just unreal to watch the real person after watching her in this movie."
• [53:30] Millie: "I have to say, this movie is responsible for all the shit that we have now."

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Discussion of Morvern Collar (2002)

Danielle Henderson delves into Morvern Collar, directed by Lynne Ramsay and starring Samantha Morton.

Overview and Narrative Style:

[59:35] Danielle: "Morvern Collar starts with ambiguity—two people in an apartment, one dead, leaving the audience unsure if it’s a murder or suicide."

Stylistic Choices:

[61:12] Danielle: "Lynne Ramsay starts the film without any dialogue for the first ten minutes, immersing viewers directly into the action."

Character Complexity and Unreliable Narration:

[67:00] Danielle: "Morvern is a complicated woman—her actions challenge our sympathy and understanding continuously."

Themes: Trauma and Reconnection:

[68:09] Danielle: "We don't get much backstory, but the film expertly portrays her struggle with trauma and attempts to reconnect with life."

Notable Quotes:

• [62:50] Danielle: "She's trying to rejoin society after this series of events that she's been part of."
• [71:12] Millie: "Morvern is a complicated emotional landscape. It's not black and white."

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Parallels Between Monster and Morvern Collar

Danielle Henderson and Millie De Cherico draw insightful parallels between the two films, emphasizing how they present women dealing with extreme trauma and societal pressures. Both films employ complex narrative structures and nuanced character portrayals to explore themes of autonomy, mental health, and survival.

[85:31] Millie: "If these movies were made by men in that era, it would have been pure comedy slasher bullshit."

[86:19] Danielle: "They potentially represent a changing tide in how we discuss and portray women in film."

Conclusion

The hosts reflect on the significance of female-directed films in shaping nuanced narratives about women's experiences. They commend Monster and Morvern Collar for their depth, emotional complexity, and the authentic portrayal of female protagonists navigating dark, challenging circumstances.

[87:45] Millie: "Women are complicated and I love complicated women's stories. I like watching art about it, so hooray."

They wrap up by promoting upcoming episodes and encouraging listeners to engage via social media and email.

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Notable Quotes

• Danielle Henderson: "It's gonna happen again." ([20:28])
• Millie De Cherico: "I do not think she was considered as you know, excuse me she was considered..." ([08:06]) (Note: Paraphrased for clarity)
• Danielle Henderson: "It's because Charlize is more of an action star, and she kind of takes a lot of risks." ([48:18])

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Final Thoughts

Psychobilly Adjacent Cowboy Shirt offers a rich tapestry of personal experiences intertwined with deep cinematic analysis. Millie and Danielle provide their listeners with thoughtful insights into concert culture and film, celebrating female-driven narratives that challenge and expand our understanding of women's roles in storytelling.

Follow Dear Movies, I Love You on Instagram @dearmoviesiloveyou.

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Transcript

[Danielle Henderson]

Hey, guys. Just a reminder that we are doing our first ever live show at the Tara theater in Atlanta, Georgia on November 7th. Ticket information is available at all of our social media sites. We are at. I saw POD on Instagram, Blue Sky, Twitter and Facebook. Be there, don't be square. Be round and soft. And at our show.

[Millie Decherico]

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of I Saw what yout Did. My name is Millie Decherico.

[Danielle Henderson]

I'm Danielle Henderson and we're film gals.

[Millie Decherico]

Doing the film thing for you again. For us, for Casey, our producer who's on the line somewhere. What? What are you doing?

[Danielle Henderson]

Happy fall. Happy fall. I am, I'm kind of recovering. I've been really going to a lot of concerts lately.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, me too.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like, I want you to cast your mind back to about two years ago when I was in an extreme prolonged lockdown.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And truly was. Was not sure if I was ever going to be in a crowd again.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah, you were giving everybody the hairy eyeball bag.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I. I stand by it. I think we came back way too soon. We started up way too soon. But that's all right. I stand by it. But I'm also glad that things have moved now into more of an endemic stage. And yeah, I got my booster. I got that latest booster which knocked me out for like two days. It knocked me out like it did the first time we got boosters. I wasn't expecting that, but I feel like if the booster is that strong, then this version of COVID might be a pain in the ass. So get your boosters.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I know I've been waiting for my new health insurance plan to kick in before I get. Get the booster. Cuz, yeah, they're like 200.

[Danielle Henderson]

They're dollars to get. Like, what the.

[Millie Decherico]

I. I was like, did they used to give this out for free? Yeah, now it's $200. Okay, whatever.

[Danielle Henderson]

So, and then I saw something in Japan where somebody posted on Instagram like, here's what you get from Japan if you have Covid. And it's like two boxes, massive boxes full of like water, food, electrolytes, all kind like now like today. That's what you get in Japan if you have Covid. And meanwhile America's like, oh, wait, we. Let's get back to charging. Let's get back to our for profit capitalist bullshit.

[Millie Decherico]

God, Japan is so bespoke. They're just like the best design, the best Covid relief, apparently. I mean, just so jealous.

[Danielle Henderson]

Unreal. So, yeah, so I, I'm casting my. Every time I go Out. I remember like, oh yeah, there were a couple of years ago there where I thought this would never happen again. So I truly enjoy every time I get to be amongst people. I feel like it's cool.

[Millie Decherico]

I also feel too though that the music industry is also like, hey, guess what? We were under lockdown. Now everybody has to tour right now. Every fucking band that you ever liked from 30 years ago is got to reform. Gotta. Gotta play full albums again. So, yes, it's.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's great. And it's ruining my body. Like, I am so fucking broken down tired.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, because you're not going to. You're not going to see no symphony or, you know, you're not going to see the band low or something. You're seeing like hard rock slash punk rock based on what I've seen on your Instagram. That's all I'm saying.

[Danielle Henderson]

I really am. I got. I went and saw Idols a couple of weeks ago and I got the tickets in like February. It was one of those far reaching things where I was suddenly like, oh, wait, this act, this concert is actually happening now. So I saw them in Forest Hills, Queens, which is hilarious on its own because it's in the middle of a neighborhood. So they have a very strict 10pm cutoff time. There's a countdown clock on the stage and they will pull the plug if the music hasn't stopped. There's also a venue in London that's like that, which I just. I find it hilarious that they're like, fucking stop playing now or else we're going to get the fucking noise complaints. But I went to this show and Forest Hills is a pretty big stadium. It's, you know, where a lot of tennis is played. If you're a tennis person, you've seen it before and it was fucking packed. And thankfully I got tickets in the seats, but they were like the first row of the seats, so it was like pretty close to the stage. It was still the whole experience, but with a seat. But I didn't sit down once because Idols go so fudgeing hard. Yeah, so fudgeing hard.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, I. I have to admit, I. I do not know them.

[Danielle Henderson]

I think you would love them. I know.

[Millie Decherico]

And like, first of all, besides you, I know like three other people that went to that show was there.

[Danielle Henderson]

I thought was there.

[Millie Decherico]

I know she was there because she texted me about it and I was like, oh, so like, you know people I know who have good taste in music like them. I. The other thing that I know about them is that the lead singer of one of my favorite bands, the Jesus Lizard. Collaborated with them at some point.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yep.

[Millie Decherico]

But that's all I know about them.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, my God, they are so intensely great. Like, their music is great. And I think they're like a real working class band. Like, they all had jobs while they were touring for the first really, like one or two EPs, kind of. They're older. They're like in their late 30s, early 40s, most of them.

[Millie Decherico]

And they're British, right? Or from the uk.

[Danielle Henderson]

They're from the uk. They're from Bristol. They formed in Bristol. And they've all had, like, intense life stories. Like, they've all had addiction issues and death and just like crazy, crazy shit going on. Like when they were young. Like young men going through this. But what I love is that you can see the energy on stage of how happy they are to be. They like to be doing what they're doing. So they're truly in the moment and they go so hard. I have the biggest crush on. I have two guitarists. I have the biggest crush on one of their guitarists right now.

[Millie Decherico]

Should I be googling?

[Danielle Henderson]

It's so cute. And he is just a little maniac on the stage. He's dancing. He threw himself into the pit, like, no less than 10 times while playing guitar. Like, still playing in the pit while crowd surfing. He's intense.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, the. The picture or the video or whatever it was that you posted a while back was a full pit photo, which I was like, okay, people are still doing that, which is heartwarming. But at the same time, I was just like, does this mean you're considering getting back in there? Are you, like, you know, throwing up some elbows? Like, what's going on?

[Danielle Henderson]

Well, this is. This is what I'm having to balance right now, because we're still a couple weeks out from the show and I still feel tired. And all I did was stand up and dance in place.

[Millie Decherico]

You said that about Pulp too, by the way.

[Danielle Henderson]

So my muscles have atrophied. I need to address it. I think I need to finally start weightlifting if I'm gonna be going to all these concerts. That's the only reason why I would lift weights, just so I can get to these shows and feel normal the next day. But as I was watching this pit, I feel like I haven't seen a pit like that in decades, in a long time from myself. I know they've existed, obviously, but I haven't been to a show with a pit like that in fudgeing decades. And I was dying to get in There I was really surprised by how much I wanted to get in that pit.

[Millie Decherico]

So you were. You did that back? I never did.

[Danielle Henderson]

Hell yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I was not a pit.

[Danielle Henderson]

Why?

[Millie Decherico]

I got. I was so scared. Are you kidding? Like, terrified. Now, Now, I'm not saying if it's something. There's been many times where I've been at a concert, standing in the front, and then all of a sudden a pit forms around me.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And then I accidentally get like knocked over. That has happened. Like, I've actually, like, at one point, one of my, like one of the stories that I remember the most from being like a rocker back in the day was that I remember I went and saw that band, the Reverend Horton Heat.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, hell yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen. They still go, by the way.

[Danielle Henderson]

Go hard.

[Millie Decherico]

Some of those old albums are fudgeing great. Like, amazing.

[Danielle Henderson]

I'll put slow on any playlist. Any playlist. Yo, those fucking glittery jackets in their little matchy matchy outfit.

[Millie Decherico]

The full custom gospel sounds, man, that's a good album. That's a good fudgeing album. Especially if you're driving, like.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

So, yeah, I was. I was at that show and I was standing sort of like near the front and literally stood there. And then the next thing I knew, a guy next to me got punched in the face in a. Because I guess, you know, people were dancing and starting to pit and then like blood went splattering across my crisp, white psycho Billy adjacent cowboy shirt that I just bought. That I had just bought from Horse Town, which is a. A cowboy store here in Georgia. So I was like, from this point on, I'm not standing in the front at any rock and roll show. Like, I gotta stand in the back because I gotta be aware of like when the pit forms.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

So that's me. But I wasn't sure. Like, you know, you asked sometimes people like, are you pit person or you're not pit person? A lot of times, you know, people are like, yeah, get in there once in a while. But you're saying that you're. You were like a standard.

[Danielle Henderson]

Standard. It was the cheapest ticket and the best time standard. Solidly in the pit for a long time.

[Millie Decherico]

Yo, I'm so proud of you for that. That is so impressive.

[Danielle Henderson]

Not only in the pit, I have jumped off of speaker stacks into a pit.

[Millie Decherico]

Get the fuck out of here.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, yeah. I was that bitch. And I'm a tall bitch. You see me coming. Nine times out of 10, I thought, they're going to drop me. I'm too big for this shit. No, but no, they always catch it. It was the best feeling. It was. I definitely want to do that again before I die. Definitely.

[Millie Decherico]

So you've crowd surfed? Is that what.

[Danielle Henderson]

Hell yeah. Hell yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God. I was always. That is this own level of anxiety for me.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely crowd served.

[Millie Decherico]

What if somebody, like accidentally, like, puts their hand in your ass? Like, what. I mean, it's like anything goes, right? Like, I'm just absolutely.

[Danielle Henderson]

I mean, anything goes. But that's the whole point.

[Millie Decherico]

You pay to play is what you're doing. You pay to play.

[Danielle Henderson]

No, I would tuck. I would always tuck like my money or my keys or whatever in my bra.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I usually had some kind of like button down or something to cover up like the tank top or whatever I was. Or T shirt, whatever I was wearing. Yeah, like there's, I. I went prepared for a pit always in my docs, always. And jeans. Because I don't want like, you see people crowd surfing in skirts and you're like, you're like, there's a finger going up that butthole.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, that's. That's why I'm like. It's tactical. It's. You got to plan a little bit before you can't absolutely walk in there all willy nilly and expect like, you know, nope.

[Danielle Henderson]

Docs, jeans, an overshirt because. And then tuck everything in your tits. Because even if people are trying to fill you up, all they're getting is keys. Keys. They're in for the, the shock of their life where they reach for a boob and it's just like some sharp ass keys. And then I just got in there.

[Millie Decherico]

I got to say, from an outsider's perspective, crowd surfing looks incredible. Like, you look incredible when you're crowd surfing. I don't know if you knew that about yourself, but did not even know I'm standing in the back, I'm like, yo, that looks so fucking free.

[Danielle Henderson]

It was like, it's so free. It's so fun. It's like a moment of pure. It's a very Zen like, experience when, when, when you think about it, because you're just giving yourself over to the trust of the people beneath you to carry you.

[Millie Decherico]

I was going to say, it's like a real trust exercise. I mean, let me tell you right now, I like very, very not into Woodstock 99.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh my God.

[Millie Decherico]

Very, very not into Fred Durst from Limp Bizkit. Now, I don't know him personally. I'm just saying back in the day, I was not a Limp Bizkit fan. And I did not like his vibe. Okay. In. In 99. However, when I see footage of him on that plank, on that wooden plank rapping while people are crowd surfing him like, so basically standing on a. On a wooden plank while people are like, holding him up, I'm like, yo, that looks cool as shit.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's the best feeling in the world. It's the best feeling in the world.

[Millie Decherico]

So when you do this at Idols, right? You did not do this at Idols.

[Danielle Henderson]

No, I did not do this at Idols. To my. Much to my dismay, I think I should have been in the pit at Idols. And also there's. Now in my elder statesman days, I feel like the place to be in the pit is just off to the right or left. Like, not. Not in the middle where you can get kicked in the face. Where you like where if you can see the pit forming and you don't want to participate, then you can back away. That feels like more the place to be for me now. But also it was a very respectable crowd. I watched these people take care of each other so much in the pit and the security was amazing because sometimes security, when I was going to shows and fucking crowd surfing, security was full of dicks. Like, they were looking to hurt people and they were not helping anyone. And the security at this show were handing out bottles of water. They're making sure people weren't getting overheated. There were little kids crowd surfing and they would, like, bring them to the front and like, make sure they got safely back to who they needed to go to. It was like a real care. Like, there's more care in a pit. Maybe it's just Idols, but there was more care in this pit than I'd ever seen before in my life and made me just want to climb a stack of speakers and launch myself off into the crowd, which I will do again one day.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, there's a real respect for pit etiquette as. But there that there wasn't in certain regards in the 90s for sure.

[Danielle Henderson]

Hell no. Oh, my God. I just. The surprise boot to the face is not a good experience.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Not a pleasant experience. I will say that for the most part, like most of the rest of life, ain't nobody thinking about anybody else in that pit.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, right.

[Danielle Henderson]

Nobody's thinking about, I'm going to punch this woman specifically.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, who knows, right?

[Danielle Henderson]

I think. I think I've definitely been to shows with some actual psychopaths. You were like, I'm going to stay away from this fucker. Because, like, I could see in your eyes that you're just looking to throw down with somebody or just like extremely drunk people.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, like extremely drunk people. Like, I got to tell you, like, I went to. I've been going to a lot of concerts too. I went and saw that band Sisters of Mercy a while back.

[Danielle Henderson]

You have to present Sisters of Mercy. Like, I don't know who they are, that band Sisters of Mercy, talking to you.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm talking to these other people who are listening. Like, I never talk to you. I'm talking to the, the, the crowd that listen to us. And I'm not even talking about the Gen Xers. I'm talking about the younger folks or maybe even the boomers. Do we have boomers? Do we have Silent Generation listeners?

[Danielle Henderson]

I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

How far back does this shit reach?

[Danielle Henderson]

If any podcast had Silent Generation listeners, it's us. And like Freakonomics. That's it.

[Millie Decherico]

We should go on tour together and like play like, you know, assisted living facilities and shit. I'm sure, I'm sure, I'm sure that would be very successful.

[Danielle Henderson]

That is also the absolute apex of people who know who both Sisters of Mercy, Freakonomics and us would be. It's assisted living.

[Millie Decherico]

What a fucking tour. You thought that Stone Temple Pilots live and Soul Asylum tour was fucked up. Here comes freaking Sister Mercy, our podcast and Freakinomics, man, that would be fucking insane.

[Danielle Henderson]

That would be so tight. But yes. You went to Sisters of Mercy?

[Millie Decherico]

No, I went to Sisters of Mercy and like, yo, like there are still like one off extremely drunk guys in bondage pants and leather jackets and like, you know, who are like real squirrely and they're, they will like go into a pit and act any kind of way. And they don't care if they're 57 years old. They. I mean, it's just. That's the thing you gotta really be careful of is the rogue element that exists.

[Danielle Henderson]

But here, to my experience, people band together real quick against that dude.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like there is a real like, get the fuck out of here energy.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh yeah. And I actually think to your earlier point about security, they actually clock that stuff way faster now. And I. And what happened? I see this guy walking all jaggedy into the front. He starts throwing arms and everyone starts getting weird up, like looking at him like, what's this guy up to? And then I just saw a security guard go yoink. Pulled him out, went to the lobby, made him eat popcorn, gave him a bottled water. And because I was, I was, you know, basically in line for the Bathroom after that. And they made him eat popcorn, force fed him movie theater popcorn, and was like, yeah, you got to drink this. You got to eat some stuff. Like, I mean, what's going on with you right now, buddy?

[Danielle Henderson]

Truly a cab, but high five to all security work in these venues. This is not how it used to be. They are doing. They're like part EMTs, part moms and dads.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, they are doing a lot.

[Danielle Henderson]

If you're in security right now at a venue, you're doing a lot more work than they used to do.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and that's what I think, too, is that it is. I mean, it is a cab, but it's also that thing where it's like, I don't think that the personality types for security guard and those are. Are. Are coming from the same. No, they're not coming from the same stream anymore now. You know, security guards are like EMTs and, like, firefighters off the. Off the clock, like, nice people, as opposed to people who just want to be aggressive and want to. And want to, like, you know, order people around in that kind of cop kind of way.

[Danielle Henderson]

So, absolutely. No. I like high five. I was really impressed. And even the band was like, please thank the security for keeping you all safe tonight. Yeah, it was great. It was great. But, yeah, I. I also. Yeah, I'm going to get back in that pit one day, and I have to remember, I'm pretty tough in a pit. Like, I'm not a tough person in general. I'm very tender. Bitch. But I have. I have recollections. I was thinking about it while I was at the show, and I was like, oh, yeah. I remember that one time I was at a show and someone drunk was like, you know, getting a little too elbowy, fisty next to me, and I just turn and I push them, and I thought I was gonna push them kind of away from me, and I just pushed them clear across the fucking.

[Millie Decherico]

Room like a superhero, like in a Western. I love that.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I was like, go way over there. Way over there. And I'm like, oh, I'm tough sometimes. Like, if I'm threatened, I'm tough, so.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, that's. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think that we both are very, you know, protective of people who we feel like, need protection.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And in those instances, we become the Incredible Hulk and our powers cannot be stopped. But for the most part, I try to avoid aggression.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Because I'm scared.

[Danielle Henderson]

I don't want the return aggression ever.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So I'm like, I don't let don't let me be aggressive because I don't want it to come back to me because then I'll think I deserve it, so. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Right, right.

[Danielle Henderson]

That's not the world I want to live in.

[Millie Decherico]

No. Right. But listen, I do love you in a pit. This is fucking exciting.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's going to happen again.

[Millie Decherico]

You think you're going to crowd surf again? I guess that's my question.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

I mean, it's up to y'all, because I've. I've. I'm easily £100 more than I used to be when I crowd surfed. So if y'all want to lift me up, knock yourself out.

[Millie Decherico]

Look, they held up Fred Durst on a giant board, and that was in 1999. They're down to clown is what I mean.

[Danielle Henderson]

That was back in the day when nobody even drank water on purpose. They were dehydrated and holding him up on that shit.

[Millie Decherico]

Exactly.

[Danielle Henderson]

No, this is gonna be tight. I'm definitely gonna. I'm definitely. This. This show made me realize two things. One, I absolutely have to wear earplugs to every single show. I don't even care if it's like, yo, yo, bomb.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, let me. Let me talk to you about this, because I wore earplugs at that Pulp concert. Even though you know it, theoretically, they're not. You know, they're not the Jesus lizard or idols or anything. I.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie Decherico]

I still wore them because I don't know about you, if you. Have you had your hearing checked as an adult? Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I definitely have tinnitus, and I definitely have hearing loss.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, that was so. Back in the pandemic days when I was still living in la, you know, I had that weird vertigo spell for. For a few months. And, you know, I ended up going to get my hearing checked because they were like, you should, you know, get your hearing checked because maybe it's inner ear problem, whatever. And listen, as. As we both. We've been going to concerts. I've been going to concerts since I was, like, 13 years old.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yep.

[Millie Decherico]

I used to work in college radio. I used to go to multiple concerts in the same night. I wear earphones for things, you know, like, I was a dj. I was always around loud music. Let's just say that. And I told myself I was like, if I get my hearing checked as an adult, I'm gna. I. I guarantee you I'm going to find out there's some going on. And as it turns out, the person was like, you have a little bit of Hearing loss in one of your ears. And I was like, it's that rock and roll, man.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's that rock and roll. And we grew up with the. The. The. The legend of Pete Townsend and his tinnitus. Yeah. Rocking our world. And we still went to shows without earplugs.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. And that's the thing is that, like, I'm like, I'm wearing earplugs to protect the. I guess the hearing that I have left.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

But I mean, I have noticed it about myself, like, as I've gotten older. Like, I'm like, yo, I can't hear shit. Like, if somebody walks up to me and is even just mumbling something, I'm like, excuse me. What? Like, I. I can't even decipher, you know, like, people who just talk a little weird, a little.

[Danielle Henderson]

Little low talker will send me over the edge.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah. It's intense. It's intensely important to remember earplug. And I'm just gonna keep some in my car because I think that's part of the problem is, like, I have them, but if I don't grab them on the way out of the house.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Then. So I'm just gonna put them in my little concert kit.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. There you go.

[Danielle Henderson]

Keep them. Because this was not the show. Did not have earplugs.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I bet if people are crowd surfing, you need earplugs.

[Danielle Henderson]

They were so loud. But it was so good. There was so. And I'm telling you, Lee Karen. And get him in my life. He's so cute.

[Millie Decherico]

I gotta look this guy up. I'll do it after the episode.

[Danielle Henderson]

I'm sure he's, like, married and has kids in the whole night. I don't care. Just get him in my life. He's adorable.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And he's a maniac. And he is. They put on one of the best shows I've seen in years. Just the energy of that entire band.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Unreal.

[Millie Decherico]

So the Walkman opened up for them, right?

[Danielle Henderson]

The Walkman open. Okay, now that. I wasn't going to talk about that because that.

[Millie Decherico]

What you about to say.

[Danielle Henderson]

I love the Walkman. They are definitely an early art staple.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, for sure.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely Love them. The difference in energy. I was talking about this with my friend on the way home and I'm like, got there for the Walkman. And the Walkman were bringing a very Park Slope dad energy.

[Millie Decherico]

I see.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like a cardigan. One of them was wearing a cardigan, buttoned up on stage.

[Millie Decherico]

They've always been that. They've always dressed like 1950s tent preachers. Yeah. Am I wrong?

[Danielle Henderson]

You're not wrong at all. And that energy is still there. But then, like, it was very. It was just a different. There were great openers. I'm glad I got to see them.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

But it was very like, dad's trying it tonight.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Energy.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and that's what I. But that's what I always loved about them, is that they looked like 1950s tent revival preachers, but then the music that they played was very reverb y and loud and fun. So are you saying that now they're just. Now they're just playing softer music?

[Danielle Henderson]

No, no.

[Millie Decherico]

The music is matching the outfits.

[Danielle Henderson]

The music is still tight. They sounded amazing. They sounded great. It was more just like. Like, watching the singer screeching more than singing. Like, straining more. It was just a little more, like, strain. Yeah. I saw this time, like, not. Not a lot of bouncing around on the stage. Not a lot of, like. And then again, you get idols out there, and they're all over the place. Crazy men.

[Millie Decherico]

That's because they're British.

[Danielle Henderson]

I know.

[Millie Decherico]

They're. They don't give a. Like, no one's trying to keep. Like, if people are like, come on. Like, didn't the lead singer of the Pogues live for, like, 100 years? Keith Richards is still alive. Like, those people are sturdy. Like, they are sturdy and they don't care. They'll, like, take a tooth out.

[Danielle Henderson]

Keith Richards is still going. He's preserved. He's been pickled. Preserved. At this point, Shane McGowan lived for easily 40 years longer than anyone ever thought he would. Right.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, who's the guy from the Fall? Markie Smith. He lived a long time, too. Like, these are people that, like. Like, like, consume dozens of beers through missing teeth, you know, in their 60s and 70s, still rocking. Like, they don't give a fuck. That's why I'm like, yo, that. That makes total sense to me. Like, it makes sense that they would be going nuts. But don't.

[Danielle Henderson]

Don't fuck with that. Those. Those island folks. Those, like, tough. The ro. If the rough seas are amongst you, you cannot be fucked with. Fucking builders and paint like, there. That is a tough stock of person, for sure. Also weirdly juxtaposed with the softest type of people I've ever met in my life, which is the proletariat. Goddamn. The softest. Like, most inbred king, queen, matriarch. Like, just the weirdest juxtaposition of all time. I'm like, all of your subjects are the hardest in the land. Yeah. And you're going in like a gold coach 10ft down the road with your brittle bird bone disease.

[Millie Decherico]

Avian bone syndrome.

[Danielle Henderson]

But, yeah, do not listen. It does not have to be Lee Kiernan. Get a British man in my life this year. But before 2025 is over, I will have a British man in my life again.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, I. I'm definitely in favor of that for you. Like, definitely.

[Danielle Henderson]

It has to happen. It just has. It's meant to fucking be. I'm gonna stop denying nature.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Listen, I put out a call for a shitty little vampire to make art with. I think you can find a British person. Like, that is less specific than what I asked for, which is that I wanted a creative partnership with an undead fucking freak.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, my God.

[Millie Decherico]

So we can get this done. Don't worry about that.

[Danielle Henderson]

I think we can get this done. But I'm setting my sights anew, even though I've been resisting for years because my therapist has told me it is not healthy for me to yearn for someone who lives thousands of miles away, that I should be focusing on intimacy. And guess what? I don't want to do that anymore. I want a British man in my life.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, you should manifest that shit.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right? I manifested a bunch of other shit in my life recently. Why not?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it's easier than possible to manifest a person that lives in another country many, many, many miles away.

[Danielle Henderson]

She got me out here thinking that I should be looking for someone down the road for intimacy shit. And I'm like, no, there's nothing more intimate to me than getting on a plane and going to see someone whose blood is made of fucking tinfoil.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, they haven't had 75 seasons of 90 Day Fiance for nothing. This has. This happens all the time. Like, we. We live in a connected world.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like, absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

Don't worry about it. We'll find you one. We'll find you one.

[Danielle Henderson]

But I. I am absolutely the. For the first time in a very long time, just flat out ignoring my therapist's advice. Well, I need a maniac. I need a little British maniac in.

[Millie Decherico]

My life and somebody that will get in the pit with you.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And knock out a few teeth. And then you go home. Keep.

[Danielle Henderson]

Keep your teeth. I spent so much money putting teeth back in my head. Keep your teeth, but get in that pit with me.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, God, I'm going to cry if we keep going. Like, this is actually very heartwarming to hear as your friend.

[Danielle Henderson]

Thank you you know what else is very heartwarming? Not our movies.

[Millie Decherico]

This week, I was going to say. Nope, not this week.

[Danielle Henderson]

Well, let's get into our movies. You want to tell them what the theme is?

[Millie Decherico]

I do. So this week our theme is sisters are doing it for themselves.

[Danielle Henderson]

And by it, we mean murder.

[Millie Decherico]

They are doing their up lives for themselves is what this week is about.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, no.

[Millie Decherico]

Let me tell you something right now. I have not seen your movie since it came out, and I fucking loved it more than I did back in. Whenever it came out. What year was that?

[Danielle Henderson]

2002. Like 22 years ago.

[Millie Decherico]

Jesus Christ.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Jesus. Like, yeah, I know my movie came out the year after. I can't even believe these movies are as old as they are. I know this movie. I like your movie. This week I feel like is responsible for all the shit that we have now. The euphorias, the. Like, this and that. The. Like. I'm like, yo, that movie goes so hard. And I loved it absolutely more than I did back then. And I think it's because I'm in a completely different stage of life. Like, back then in 2003, I was definitely rolling around, maybe the floor of a pit. I wasn't in it. I was just rolling around the floor, getting kicked in the face, like, all dirty. That was my life.

[Danielle Henderson]

Skin balled around.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, like, now that I'm older and I look back on this stuff, I'm just like, man, what a fucking great movie. That is so good for you for picking it.

[Danielle Henderson]

I'm so glad to bring it back into prominence in some way because it is such a fucking solidly good movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And same with yours. I have watched yours more recently than I've watched mine because it's one of those movies where I just. When you think of it, you're like, yeah, I gotta get back into that. I gotta see what that's all about. And I am constantly blown away. Charlize Theron is unreal in this movie. Cause after I watched your movie, I went and watched a bunch of. I just, you know, kind of went down the hole a little bit and I watched a bunch of videos and a documentary about, you know, the subject, the woman that she plays. And I was just like, damn, she really, like, she was already. She transformed herself physically, yes. But even the way she moved and stood and talked and it was just unreal to watch the real person after watching her in this movie and not being able to see a difference.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, no, I. She channeled something or someone in this movie that is completely undeniable. Like, you're just like, where, like, I don't know who it is in her life that she was like, I got to like, be that person. But the nuances of that person are so incredible. Like, it could have easily, easily been a fucking joke, right?

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, totally. But didn't her mother kill her father?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I just literally found that out. Like, I did not know that at all.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, it was like a really abusive self defense situation, but. And, you know, traumatic, obviously to her. Yeah. But happened well.

[Millie Decherico]

And like, I mean, when you know that and considering what Monster is about and the character that she plays, I mean, very, very close to what she experienced, Right?

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

So it makes all the sense in the world that she was like, she transformed, you know, in a way that I feel like. I mean, she won the Oscar for this role. Totally deserved. And like, but the. The ways in which this character, like I said, could have been just like a fucking joke. I mean, you see this all the time in all these biopics of, you know, either in True Crime or like, you know, whatever. Like, I'm right now, I'm watching the Ryan Murphy show about the Menendez brothers.

[Danielle Henderson]

Me too.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, which is like, that's a whole other sub. That is a whole other subject. I swear. We could do an entire podcast about it.

[Danielle Henderson]

We could do a whole fucking season of a podcast about it. But yes, I'm also watching it and it is different.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah. And so you're like, obviously there are choices when, you know, you're making a piece of, you know, a piece of TV or a piece of movies about real people. Right. So that's the thing is that for like, Unflappables, like, she did an incredible job. Every time I watch it, I'm like, yo, she is someone else. Like, that's not Charlize Thorn. That is somebody else. And I'm like, it's kind of amazing to watch.

[Danielle Henderson]

And you know, what's. What's really. It's wildly unfair of me, possibly, but because she was so intensely good in this movie and in general, I really just love Charlize Theon. Me too. I just love her. I just think, again, get a British man in my life and let me be friends with Charlize Theron. That's all I ask.

[Millie Decherico]

Me too.

[Danielle Henderson]

She's so great. But because she's so great in that role by comparison, I feel like Christina Ricci was awful. We'll talk about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, we are going to talk about it.

[Danielle Henderson]

Well, you're Going first girl, so jump on in.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, so my movie for the theme sisters are doing it for themselves is from. Is from 2003. What the fuck? 2003. It was written and directed by Patty Jenkins Jenkins and it's called Monster. You know what? I always wanted to be President of the United States. So let me talk a little bit about Patty Jenkins, actually. Yeah, you know what's weird? Both are movies this week directed by women.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

I wonder why. That's amazing. Maybe, maybe women should be directing movies about women and their lives.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, you think?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, that should happen.

[Danielle Henderson]

I wonder what that would look like more often, constantly, if it took over the industry.

[Millie Decherico]

I know, maybe more interesting art would be created. So Patty Jenkins, you know, she's the. If you don't know her, she's the director of the two Wonder Woman movies. I mean, that's the most famous stuff she's done. She actually hasn't done a ton of feature length films, but she started her career as a camera operator and then she went to the AFI to become a director. And I was reading this article that was in Bust magazine a long time ago. I feel like it was probably maybe 10 years ago, maybe, maybe even earlier, I had to find it, you know, on the Wayback Machine on the Internet archive. But basically it said that, you know, after she graduated from the afi, Patty Jenkins met this independent producer guy and he had made some kind of like low budget serial killer movies in his career. And she mentioned to him, you know what, you should make a movie about this woman, Eileen Wuornos, you know, because I gotta say, I think Patty Jenkins might be like a little bit of a Murderino. Just from what I've read, she likes true crime. And she was at the time was like, yeah, you know, I'm fascinated by this woman, Eileen Wardos, who's in jail. And I just have always been bothered by the way that her story was presented. And the guy was like, you know what, you should write a script about it because you're, you know, you're new in Hollywood and, you know, you should just write, write a thing to get made. So she did. And while Patty Jenkins was working on the script, she actually wrote to Eileen Wuornos while she was in jail and she was on death row. And of course, you know, Eileen Wuornos was kind of like, who's this person that's writing about me? Like, this is kind of weird. Very weary. But then eventually they developed a rapport. And then the night before Eileen's execution, she actually left Patty Jenkins all of her personal letters. And I think Patty was really touched by that and said, you know what? I feel this responsibility to, like, actually direct this movie now. Not just write it, but direct it. Because, you know, like, this I bonded with this woman that I'm writing about, and it just seems like the right thing to do. So I kind of like that story.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, it's very organic. Very organic.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And to your earlier point about Charlize Theron, so I will say this. I mean, I love her so much. We just talked about this. I talked about her at length in the Fury Road episode. It's funny because I normally think that I do not turn towards famous people like that. Like, I mean, she's an incredible, beautiful, blonde Hollywood actress. Right. I typically don't go towards that. Right. I like character actors and things of that nature, but for some reason, I just always have really loved her, and I think it's because she's more of an action star, and she kind of takes a lot of risks, like, with movies like this. And she was one of the producers of the movie, and she really fought for it to be made, and she was really, like, a champion of the film, which I think is really great. And now that I know more about her background, her actual life story, it totally makes sense.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie Decherico]

So, like I said, she was amazing in this film. She won the Oscar for it in 2004. So I don't want to necessarily go into, like, the actual life of Eileen Wuornos in the crime, because there's just so much out there about it. And. And quite honestly, like, we're not a true crime podcast, so I'm not doing that. I. I have seen a lot of other documentaries about her. I don't know if y'all remember that Nick Broomfield documentary. Yeah. That was really popular amongst, you know, people that I knew, like, film people that I knew when it came out, actually, that came out the same year as Monsters. So. Nick Broomfield. Wow. We got. That's a whole other subject. Like, again, a whole other podcast.

[Danielle Henderson]

I don't know much about him. I remember that I watched the documentary again after I watched the film, this time for the pod. And I do not know anything about him, but I have thoughts on that documentary.

[Millie Decherico]

He's a very contentious documentarian. He's provocative. He made Kurt and Courtney. Okay. Which is like, the documentary that, you know, what it do, it says something about somebody and presents a side of that story that a lot of people have issues with. Right, right. Some people who don't actually have issues with it. But it's like, you know, his provocative. He's provocative and he makes, you know, very, you know, bold documentaries and has done so for many, many years. So, yeah, that documentary exists. There's like a couple other ones. So, yeah, I mean, there is no. You can find information about Eileen. I will say that, you know, she was controversial, I think generally speaking, because of her crimes and her trauma. You cannot deny that there was trauma in her life and that maybe there were certain factors that led to what happened to her and what, how she, how she lived her life. Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

Well, that, that to me is one of the more interesting conversations about Eileen Wuornos. Like, not just that she was America's first female serial killer that we know of.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

But that the narrative of how, what is the importance of mental health when you're looking to execute someone or when you're looking to punish someone for a crime? And kind of what duty do you have to address or acknowledge that their mental health is suffering or that they need. They, they clearly have issues that contributed to the crimes they committed. Not as an excuse, but just. It brings up an interesting, for me, an interesting narrative about what do we do in those extreme situations or those intent. And that's honestly, it's become part of what I see as more of a standard discussion now. Discussion, practice now when talking about prison reform, abolition and prisoners rights, is that mental health has entered the conversation in a way that it absolutely did not when Eileen Morenose was being tried and convicted for her crimes.

[Millie Decherico]

100%, I totally agree with you on that. I think that, yeah, this situation happened in an era where there wasn't, there weren't people who thought that people who committed crimes or that went to jail were human beings, honestly. So it's like, you know, it doesn't surprise me the way that things had turned out, unfortunately. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I feel like, yeah, it's so complicated. Like, isn't like, isn't this world so complicated generally that, like, it's hard for me now, being the age that I'm at, to be like, super black and white about stuff like this. Like, I just can't do it. Like, I'm just like, there, you know, I, I, I, I don't know. Like, I, you see and hear about the things that she experienced, and you're just like, I mean, like, why are. There was no care.

[Danielle Henderson]

No care, no attention at any point in her life, there was something so extreme. And again, we're not a true crime podcast, but examples that I think were not in the film, but that I know about her life from watching other things about her life. Just the fact that in the film, and this maybe comes from the fact that Patty Jenkins had access to those letters, which I didn't know. There's kind of occasionally this voiceover from the character from. From Aileen Wuornos about her life and filling in kind of gaps. Very casually. At one point she says, I was around 13. Yeah, it must have been 13, because it's right after I gave the baby up for adoption. And you're like, are you fucking kidding me? That is pure child abuse.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

That she was sexually assaulted, got pregnant, had the baby, gave it up for adoption by the time she was 13. And because of that, at 13 years old, she was kicked out of her house and lived in the woods in Michigan in the cold for two fucking years.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like, come on, you can't ignore that part of the conversation in considering how someone becomes this kind of person, this feral, this, like, push to the brink. And that's only one example of what happened to her in her life.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. And like. And what I also think, too, to that point, and it's something that I feel like this movie really hones in on, is the desperation of poor people.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And people who have little to no skills in the job market or in capitalism. Let's just put it generally. Right. That that is a factor in how people, you know, where they end up in terms of something like this. You know, and that is, I think, too, what the movie. Like I said, the movie does a really good job of. Of. Of bringing that point up because Eileen Warnos was a sex worker because of those conditions that she faced in her life, like her economic situations, her mental health, like, things like that, you know? You know, it was like a perfect storm where bad things could have happened for her. And then, you know, her reactions to those things is, you know, what the movie's about ultimately.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely. And it walks such a. I think this movie, I loved rewatching it again because, like, it gives me a different emotional response because like you said, I think as I get older and pay attention to more things and things become less black and white. I do think the movie does an incredible job. And this is difficult to do, but it does an incredible job of moving you through sympathy, empathy, and just being disgusted.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

By what's. What you're seeing.

[Millie Decherico]

Yep.

[Danielle Henderson]

And it's there. There are moments where you feel all three things at the same time. For. For Eileen.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. It's very. It's Very textured in that way, which is what I don't know good art should be doing. It should totally very, you know, very textured and with a lot of different angles. Right. And what I really like about this movie. So, like, I don't know about a one sense synopsis. I'll just say to you that this movie is generally about the life of Eileen Wuornos. When she left Michigan, she moves to Florida. She's a sex worker. She's calling herself Lee at this moment. And she meets somebody. She meets a. A woman named Selby at a gay bar. Very early on in the movie, Selby is played by Christina Ricci. Now, this woman was not a real person. It was kind of a. Inspired by person. Somebody who was actually in Eileen Wuornos's life at one point. To me, this is what makes this movie super fascinating, is that it's about the relationship. And it's about, like, her as a person, Aileen Wuornos as a person interacting with this love that she has. And then again, like kind of the outside forces of her economic scenario and her, you know, and her. The line of work that she's in, you know, coming in and out of this relationship. Right? Because at the beginning of the film, like the Christina Ricci character, Selby, she's essentially closeted, if I'm not mistaken. Like, she's living at her family's house who are completely, like, in denial of who she is. You know, they're religious. So her whole thing is totally screwed up because of religion. Like, you know, this is, to me, I feel like a very Southern tale, like, in that way. And. But at the same time, you know, Selby's kind of obsessed with, like, romance and love. She's got kind of this, like, innocence. She's kind of reserved and mousy and this kind of stuff. Now we gotta talk about Christina Ricci in terms of playing his character. Right? Because I've read several different opinions on it.

[Danielle Henderson]

Okay. I. I mean, you know, my. I don't think it was good. I do not think she. And I don't think it's because Christina Ricci is a bad actress. I like her so much in so many things. This, for some reason, maybe because it wasn't based on a real character when so many of the other people in the movie were. I think it was probably left to her to decide or left to the production to decide, like, who should this character be? And they kind of erred on the side of making her, to me, a little bit too selfish, bratty, and childlike.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, I have to. I think I agree with that. Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So there were so many times where I'm like. And again, it does enhance the love story. And looking at Aileen Wuornos and Eileen trying to figure out how to be a person in love, let alone be in love with a woman, which had never happened to her before. And then also being a caretaker, which she'd never done before.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

So I think it served the purpose of amplifying the Aileen Wuornos character. But I was so annoyed with the voice.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it was there. I. I swear, I go back and forth between whether or not I think it's cringy or kind of good. Like, I'm like, is this good? Is this good? Is it good that she is the most annoying person on the planet? You know, I can't tell. And then a lot. And then other times I'm like. But, like. You know what I mean? Like, this is too weird for me. Like, it just felt weird to me. So I don't know. I go back and forth about it all the time. But I totally see. And I gotta say, like, many people have named that as a criticism of the film. If anything, is that that character.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie Decherico]

And that Christina Ricci may not have played it as well as she's capable of in other films. So, like, yeah, you know, I. I totally hear you on that.

[Danielle Henderson]

And it's strange, too, because it does kind of at times pull you out of the action in a frustrating way, but again, does its job of amplifying what Eileen may have been thinking of in that moment or struggling with, because it pulls you out of the action enough. When, as a person who does not have the same mental health issues that Eileen had, it's very clear to be like, this is a freeloader. This is someone who doesn't care about you. This is someone who might care about you, but is doing it in a way that is harming you get away. So it does serve that purpose of us kind of, again, creating some empathy for Eileen. But it's just so hard to watch certain scenes.

[Millie Decherico]

Right? And this being true at the same time as, like, there is a moment where you're like, you understand, I think, as a viewer that Selby is not Lee and maybe thinks Lee is this like. Like, her hero in a way that she's everything that she's not. Like, Lee is brash, loud, you know, truly herself, you know, and lives life in a way that she does it like Selby is this like. Like she's fucking sitting in her shitty white wicker bedroom at her aunt's house, like, wishing that she could find romance. You know what I mean? Like, she's not.

[Danielle Henderson]

She's not active at all.

[Millie Decherico]

She's not active. And Lee is, like, the personification of, like, a fucking power lesbian that she wants to be. You know, she's like, being like. And so in that way, you're like, oh, she's, like, enamored of Lee because she, you know, Lee is everything she isn't. But at the same time, there's that question, too, of the economics of their relationship where it's like, that's why Lee continues to do sex work, because she feels the pressure of, like, funding their relationship.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right, Absolutely. And it's one of the most powerful scenes, has nothing to do with the crime. To me, that happens. There's this stretch where you're watching Aileen trying, kind of trying to go straight. She's trying to apply for jobs.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God.

[Danielle Henderson]

She's being really honest with people about, look, I don't have a lot of experience. I don't have, you know, yes, I have a felony on my record. Like, just watching her struggle and be met with different kinds of resistance. So sometimes people are kind, but they're like, what? We also can't hire you. Sometimes people just want to push her through the system. Like, all right, all you're going to get is factory work. And we don't have factory work right now because you have a felony on your record. Not listening to her. Then you have people, the one guy who's just outright fucking cruel to her. And just. So it's. It's. It's not lost on the viewer. Shouldn't be lost on the viewer. That, yes, people have. Things happen in their life that put them at a disadvantage. We do not make it easy for them to crawl out of that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And so watching someone struggle with that in this movie, and then again, seeing her push to a point where she really has no options other than to return to sex work.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

And I mean, obviously, she did have a choice whether or not to. To murder people, but she. But to watch her be pushed from her. Just trying to find someone to give her a small chance and then not getting it. It just. It was. It's heartbreaking to me. That's one of the more. More powerful scenes in the film.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, it's absolutely. I mean, when she, you know, basically has to go put on her job interview outfit, which is the only thing that she can come up with, you know, and then she has to, like, you know, basically, like, talk to men like that. Like, she has to essentially beg for a job and a guy treats her like. I mean, this is what I mean. It's very textured in terms of, like, what she is experiencing with these men. Right. Because then I think the most famous. One of the most famous scenes is incredibly violent sequence where, you know, she's on a job and she is basically viciously attacked by this absolute psychopath client that she has. And she snaps and you're just like, okay, well, can you blame her? That's kind of the feeling that I had when I watched that part as, like.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Can you blame her for anything else that's happening right now after this? Like, it's very. Like I said, it's a very kind of complicated film in that way. Her life in reality was very complicated. And I know people have a lot of opinions about it, so let's just put that out there. Like, at the end of the day, though, like, this. I think the reason why I picked this movie for the theme is because we are talking about, like, you know, women. And. And the first of all, this movie had to have been made by a woman. It probably had to have been made by Patty Jenkins because she had such a close relationship at the end of it with Eileen. And I mean, it is basically like Charlize is like. It's like her signature role. Like, she'll never be forgotten for this. And I think it hits so many notes really well. I absolutely love this movie. Like, every time I see it, I like it a little more. Even I feel like, who. Like, whatever. Like I said, whatever instincts or whatever that Charlize is channeling while she's in this character, I mean, you just, like, literally can't think that she is not that person. I'm just like, how is it? How is she doing it? It's. It's really an incredible transformation. I'm not. That's just not me saying it because she won an Oscar for it. That's like. No, what I actually think. And, like. Yeah. I mean, I love movies like this because they're complicated. Because, you know, the crime is complicated. The. The women are complicated. I mean, it's just.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

What can you say? You know?

[Danielle Henderson]

And like you said, it's. It's what art is supposed to do.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And what it's supposed to. It's supposed to evoke strong emotions. You know, it's not just meant to be a passive thing. So I just. I love. And even though the movie is violent, violent, violent. Violent in so many scenes. Like that scene you were just talking about. I fast forward through it every time. I can't watch it.

[Millie Decherico]

It's hard. And it's gotten to the point where, I mean, I feel bad for saying this about. Is his name Lee Turgen? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The actor. Because he's been in so many things. I mean, so many things that are not this. But I mean, it's like when you see him, you're like, God, he is so intensely bad that you're just like, he's not that person. He's not that person.

[Danielle Henderson]

Exactly. You have to talk yourself out of, like, no, he's just playing a boyfriend right now.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Danielle Henderson]

So good in that role. But it is. It's hard to take. It's hard to watch. But I appreciate this movie more and more, especially because, like you said, they could have made it just something that was a vanity project. It could have been a joke. And I think they did. They told a real story and gave a real point of view. Even if that point of view was that, yes, this is a monster. But consider how she became a monster. I like that it had a point of view. It wasn't just a beat by beat news story kind of situation. It wasn't trying to excuse her behavior. It just kind of lets. It's one of those movies that lets the audience decide how to feel.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And.

[Millie Decherico]

And then it hones it on this, like, interpersonal relationship that she had, you know, that I think told a lot about, like, her circumstance and the ways that she, you know, lived her life.

[Danielle Henderson]

It's beautiful. It's a beautiful movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Me, I. I totally agree.

[Danielle Henderson]

So my film for our theme Sisters Are Doing It For Themselves was released in 2002. The screenplay is by Liana Dognini and Lynne Ramsey. It was directed by Lynn Ramsey. My movie is Morvern Collar.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I do books myself because it's got a lot to offer me.

[Danielle Henderson]

I love this movie. I fucking love Lynne Ramsey. First found Lynne Ramsey through Ratcatcher, which came out in 1999. But she's also gone on to do we need to talk about Kevin from 2011. You were never really here. And she's working on a pretty intense, cool movie right now, it seems, from what I've read. But Lynne Ramsey is an incredible director. She's originally from Glasgow, Scotland, and is just so thoughtful and beautiful and has a real organic way into storytelling. That, to me, completely catches you off guard. And I like when she kind of starts from a place in this film especially she Starts from a place of not wanting you to know what's going on. So she's instantly put. Instantly put you off kilter with this film. My one sentence synopsis of Marvin Koller is, after her partner dies by suicide, a young woman puts her name on his last novel, submits it to a publisher, and changes her life.

[Millie Decherico]

Perfect.

[Danielle Henderson]

So, again, the beginning of this movie. And I highly recommend watching as many Lynne Ramsey movies as you can. She's an incredible director. This might be one of my favorites of her films. Even though, again, I really loved Ratcatcher, but this might be probably my favorite of her films. And in the beginning of the movie, you have no fucking idea what's going on for about 20 minutes.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Which is a brave thing to do nowadays, even back then, like, Even back in 2000, a brave thing to do. To be like, I ain't gonna tell you what's happening here. So there's two people laying on a floor in a small apartment. You know, small, sparse apartment. One of them seems to be clearly dead. But when you first zoom into these shots, it's possible that both of them are dead. And then Morvern Collar starts moving. So then after we realize, okay, one person is alive. Now we're not sure how this guy died. Did she kill him? What's going on? Like, that is left in a very ubiquitous state for at least seven minutes.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Danielle Henderson]

As she's just walking around the apartment, kind of realizing that this guy is dead. And again, you're coming in on the moment of action in a way that you're like, all right, was there a fight? Did she kill him? What's happening? What's going on? Is she now trying to reckon with her own actions or is she in shock? Like, it's just such an intense way to enter a film. And I appreciate Lynne Ramsey as a writer and Liana Dugnini as a writer for putting us into the moment of action in this way. Because then we do eventually see again, minutes later, that there is a suicide note that has been left on a computer. And so the title character, Morvin Collar, is played by Samantha Morton, who's incredible in this role.

[Millie Decherico]

So good.

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely wonderful in this role. And she's looking at this note, and what she does directly after is so interesting. So now we're a little bit more placed in the film where this is her partner, this is her husband. He has committed suicide. So now we're kind of with her, and there's a little bit of sympathy that's garnered in this moment, realizing she's probably in shock. But what she does directly after this moment and for like the next, I don't know, 30 minutes in the film will challenge your sympathy and will challenge that thought more than you ever thought it could.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Which is again, to me, the beauty of this film is you're with you. You start off confused. You finally reach a moment of relief where you feel like, I know what's happening. She is shocked, she is sad. And then you watch her make a series of decisions that are so wild.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And it will challenge that sympathetic muscle or that sympathetic urge every step of the way. So right after the she. She reads the suicide note, she just walks down to a train station. And it's also a very quiet film. So there's no sound, there's no talking in this film for like the first 10 minutes.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

So again, you're really left on your own in a way. And we're not even sure where in the world this is happening. Right. And then Morvern starts talking into the phone. The phone rings. She's like near this phone bank at the train station. The phone rings, she picks it up. We hear a Scottish accent, like, okay, she's in Scotland. And then she has this one sided conversation where you learn that it's also Christmas time. And she talks to the person on the phone. She doesn't seem to break down, she doesn't seem at all put out. Hangs up the phone, goes back to the apartment, she opens her Christmas presents. One of them, which is a fur, this, these are all Christmas presents from her dead husband who is still on the floor. And it's like a new leather jacket, a lighter, a mixtape. All items that become crucial to the rest of the film. Then she takes a bath and puts on makeup and paints her nails and goes out to the pub. So you're starting to wonder, is this shock or indecision or is it something else happening here?

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right. So then she takes at right as she's right before she goes out to the pub, she takes the money out of her dead husband's pocket and just leaves him there. So again, is this anger? Is she pissed off that he killed himself? Is she pissed off that he did it at Christmas? Like, what is happening here?

[Millie Decherico]

Is it. You know, there was a part of me that wondered this time if she like, she just like didn't want to admit that he was gone. And then she kind of wanted just keep the body around.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, because she felt like some kind of weird comfort from that. I mean, it's very complicated. As you can imagine, it's very strange.

[Danielle Henderson]

And then again, because of these actions, you're wondering, did she kill him and make it look like a suicide?

[Millie Decherico]

Exactly.

[Danielle Henderson]

Like you're still going back and forth. Like, nothing is set in stone with this inciting incident. So she goes out to the pub, where we meet another person who's gonna become crucial to the film. Her friend Lana, who she works with at a grocery store. They're both store clerks, and Lana's played by Kathleen McDermott. And she just meets up and asks, you know, hey, where's your husband? And Morvern says, he's not coming. He's being weird tonight. And she's, like, wearing her new jacket, flicking her new lighter, listening to her mixtape. So she goes out and has a night. She does drugs, she's drinking. She keeps telling everyone, whenever anyone asks where her husband is, she says he's at home in the kitchen. Which is not a lie, but leaves out crucial info.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I'd say she's.

[Danielle Henderson]

She's also flirting a little bit with guys at a pub. And then she goes to this house party, and it's a wild house party and there's a bonfire, and there's indication that she has, like, a threesome with Lana and one of the guys at the party. And so again, we're thrown into this action of, like, what is going to happen? Is the whole movie gonna be about her trying to figure out what to do with the body?

[Millie Decherico]

Right, right.

[Danielle Henderson]

Is that the emotional crux of the film is what is she. When is she going to deal with the fact that her husband is dead and their body is in their. His body is in their apartment. And there are some moments that, again, kind of give us a little bit of backstory into Morvern. But, like, what I love about this character also is that it's easy for us to be put right into the middle of the action with her. Because we don't really know much about her backstory, and we never really will. So we know that she had a foster mother at some point. Cause she points out to Lana where her foster mother is buried. But we don't know much about her childhood or her life. Which are crucial things, as we learn in watching Monster, which are crucial things to understanding how someone becomes the kind of person who would leave a dead body in an apartment for a long time.

[Millie Decherico]

That's right. That's right.

[Danielle Henderson]

And we don't ever get to know those things. So she leaves with Lana. There's a scene where she's at Lana's grandmother's house and they take a bath together. They're having a foot cigarette moment. Yeah, there's lots, lots of bathing in this movie, right? Like lots of bathing and lots of imagery of bugs. So there's like a dirt and cleanliness subtext to this film.

[Millie Decherico]

Very good observation.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right. And then she finally tells Lana that something bad has happened, but she doesn't actually tell her the truth. All she says is that her husband left her. Like it's gone. He's gone for good and it's bad. And his body, we go back to the apartment, his body is still on the floor under the blinking Christmas tree lights while she's listening to this mixtape, smoking cigarettes, seems to be having kind of a good time. And one thing about this part of the film is again, you have no idea what her childhood was like, but you also have no, no idea what her emotional life is. So you have no clue what she's thinking at any point in up to this point in the film. And you also have no idea what her marriage was like. Like, what was that relationship like? So it becomes very. It's, it's what I love. Something I also, I love about this film is that it's a one sided film. But in a lot of films where they introduce an unreliable narrator, it's very clear that the narrator is unreliable. In this instance, I think you don't ever really know what's going on with the narrator.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

And that's a really hard thing to write and a very hard thing to elicit emotion from.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

But they managed to do it because it's not clear cut that Morven Kahler is an unreliable narrator. It's that she is a complicated woman.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. That again, like very similarly to my movie maybe is sort of like you're in the. You're, you're basically as if you were sitting there wondering what are the actions that come from this traumatic scenario that she's been in, which is that she, her dead boyfriend is in front of her, in her, in their apartment. Right. And that he possibly unalived himself. Right. So it's that feeling of like, yes. By like maybe normal standards, the reaction of that is not matching with what's, what, you know, she's doing for the rest of the film. But how is it informing those actions? And it's not a black and white, like grief is not black and white either. Right. So it's this thing where you're just like, I don't know. I think that that's what both these movies do this week is that they're sort of like saying, you know, what are the reactions of women face with unspeakable trauma or sorrow? And, you know, how do we judge what they do after, you know?

[Danielle Henderson]

Absolutely, absolutely. Because this is a really traumatic moment. It's a very traumatic thing. No matter what we know or don't know about her life and if she.

[Millie Decherico]

Was the cause of it or not, I mean, that's still up in the air. Obviously, we talked about that.

[Danielle Henderson]

So, like, the cause of it and that maybe she killed him or that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Or that, like, something, you know, something happened. Maybe they got into a fight and it was an accident. It's like, you know, it's unclear.

[Danielle Henderson]

And again, we will never know what his emotional life was or what he was thinking. And I think that is a. This is one of the most brilliant ways that I've ever seen suicide depicted on film. Because it feels true, which is that you will never get to know why. What happened, what he was thinking, he is not even part of. He's taking himself completely out of the equation. And you don't get to know that. So you really get to see that land on her.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

The uncertainty and the cruelty of that act lands on her by the fact. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. And she kind of, you know, she's floating around this apartment, and there's a moment where she goes back to Lana's grandmother's house, even though Lana isn't there. And it's weird because it's clear that she has no family to call in this moment. Like, it's clear she has no one else to go to. She doesn't tell the grandmother anything. But she really kind of indulges in taking care of this woman, which I think is an interesting side to see of someone who up to this point has just been kind of cold. Yeah. And not emotional at all. So that we're starting to see a little bit of emotion leak in. She goes back home again. We think she's finally gonna deal with his body. Right. Nope. She makes a frozen pizza. She does clean up some of the blood with toilet paper. But then she is just leaping over his body while she's making a frozen pizza. So now you're thinking, has she completely disassociated from what is happening in this. In this apartment? Then we're going to go back to the note, and I'm going to read you the note, because I think the note also gives some indication as to why and what has happened. So in this note, her husband, James Gillespie, says Sorry, Morvern. Don't try to understand. It just felt like the right thing to do. My novel is on the disc. Print it out and send it to the first publisher on this list. If they will not take it, try the next one down. I wrote it for you. I love you. Be brave. I left money in the bank for the funeral. The card is in the drawer. You know the code. Keep the music for yourself. So remember, she read this note early on. We've seen her already read this note. So when she goes back to the note, after we've seen all these actions that she's taken and moving through her life and trying to maintain some normalcy, she's kind of following his instructions. Not in the way that I think he thought she would, but she really is trying to be brave, I think, and go out in the world and not deal with this and see. Figure out what she's going to do.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Danielle Henderson]

But the important things to note about this letter is that he has left her a lot of money or there's a lot of money for them, you know, for. For their situation. It seems to be a lot of money. It's about like £4,000. He's already planned for his own funeral and he's given her this book to sell. So this is why what happens next becomes crucial. And I'm not going to give away too much more after this point. But I will tell you that she does deal with the body and the way that she deals with it. After she's been, you know, kind of half assed cleaning up and half ass spraying air freshener around, she takes the money out of the bank. She books a vacation for herself and Lana at a resort in Spain. Tells Lana, don't worry about the money goes home. James's body is now in the bathtub. And Morvern proceeds to put on sunglasses, tape a walkman to her body and starts to cut up his body. And then she puts his body in a bag, hikes to a desolate area and buries him using only a trowel, I might add. And then goes on holiday with Lana. Then she, she goes home, prints out his book, erases his name, puts her name as the writer of the book as the author, prints it out, mails it to the first publisher on the list. So at this point in the movie you're like, is she evil? Is she deranged? What is she thinking? There are moments where her hands shake and her legs shake at odd. There's again that subtext of cleanliness and dirt and worms. And after this. All she's sort of focused on is her own happiness. So it's a very strange. And the Spain portion of the film is interesting in its own right. There's so much to discuss there. You know, Lana kind of comes over and they're listening to music and preparing for the trip and doing drugs. And Lana reveals that she actually slept with James. So she's like, you know, they don't even know if they're gonna go on the trip at one point. And, you know, Morvorne gets a letter from the publisher saying they wanna publish the book. So they end up going on the trip. But the Spain part is just basically her kind of trying to rectify. I'm on vacation with a friend of mine who slept with my husband who's killed himself. Nobody knows he's killed himself. I've disposed of his body so no one will ever know that he killed himself. I've stolen his money. I've stolen his novel that is going to be published. And now I'm just in Spain. So it's just a very interesting mix of her, like, partying and meeting guys and clubbing and drinking and doing drugs and, you know, getting stuck at a town with a festival and losing luggage and getting lost in the middle of nowhere and meeting the publishers. But in between all of these moments where you're watching her kind of come to life because we've seen her in such a stunted, weird position throughout the film you're watching her come to life, but all you can really think of is how deceptively she decided. How deception was the. The. The key to her changing her life. And, like, looking at the options a young woman has in the world in the weirdest possible way. Like, I would never think, oh, like, what is a young woman's options in the world? If she's working at a supermarket and wants to get by that her husband commits suicide, she steals his money and takes his novel. Like, would never think that. But it is. Again, because of the subject matter and the way into the film and how we are introduced to this character. It presents a very complicated emotional landscape. As you're watching, you don't know if you should root for her. You don't know if you're expecting her to be caught and if you want her to be caught. You don't know if you kind of love that she had the balls to do this or if it's fucking strange that she said this is. These are the actions she decided to take because she's totally out of step with society. Like, this is, again, what's wild about watching her in Spain is like you're watching someone who has just gone through a traumatic event, put themselves through a traumatic event, committed crimes multiple, but is also now trying to rejoin society after this series of events that she's been part of. So it's a very interesting, strange movie about a woman who's taken shit into her own hands.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And trying to jumpstart her life herself, or maybe even destroy her life and herself.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah. There's. I mean, listen, I feel like every. I cannot help but think that this movie. I mean, trust me, there have been movies in the past and all throughout film history, really, especially in the 70s on. Where you have a scenario in which a woman is reacting dispassionately towards some pain or trauma she's experiencing. Right. I mean, it's kind of like a Wanda Barbara Loden type of scenario. Like, you. I mean, you start from there, and there, you know, you go to, you know, I don't know, ordinary people. You know, there's many female characters in. In films that have reacted like this, where it's this. Like, something bad happened to her, and, like, there is no. This is the way she reacts. She reacts in questionable ways towards her own pain.

[Danielle Henderson]

Right.

[Millie Decherico]

The thing I think is really interesting about this film is that it's so stylistically important that I feel like it set the table for what we sort of see now. And I keep using Euphoria as sort of like a comparison. I don't really know. But, like, now we see this a lot where you see female characters who are not. Who are dissociated from their lives in some way, you know, mostly due to pain, trauma, what, whatever. And then it's sort of like this beautiful. Like, there's a lot of, like, audio tricks that are being used in this film. And I know, like, Lynn Ramsey's kind of known for that, but I keep looking at this movie going, oh, man, this is like, everything that happens right now. This is like every, you know, Netflix show about young people, is that this is the way it is. Like, people taking drugs and partying in spite of, like, horrible things that are happening to them in their everyday lives.

[Danielle Henderson]

Exactly. And this was the. This was the first time I had seen that in a way that centered women especially.

[Millie Decherico]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

And watching her be really brazen about her sexuality and sex in general. Like, watching her kind of just be a little bit feral, be a little bit, you know, purely moved by emotion and desire in the midst of this trauma was. It's fascinating to watch.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, oh, my God. The fucking part where, I mean, listen, I love this song so much, but the part where she's like walking to the grocery store to fucking some velvet morning, I was just like, jesus, oh my God, this is like hitting. Hitting me everywhere. Like, that is my shit right there. And the soundtrack is. Is absolutely top notch in my man. It's like, oh, you're gonna put like boards of Canada and broadcast in a movie. Like, throw in some fucking stereo lab. There you go. I will like this film, no doubt. But like, that's, you know, part of it is that she's listening to this mixtape that was left by her dead husband. So there's reasons why the music is playing and it becomes important to what's happening. So.

[Danielle Henderson]

And the fact that she's using his soundtrack to fuel her current life and decisions and his thoughtful, loving songs that he. Because, you know, again, the mixtape is a lost art. And if you've made or received a mixtape, you know how important it is to make one and to be along the flow. You're along with the flow of the emotions of the person who made it. So as she's making these decisions, you're watching her do these weird actions and listening to this, this soundtrack that was created in love but also created by someone who knew they were going to take their own life, right?

[Millie Decherico]

And like the last song, which I won't give away just because, I don't know, I feel like I. Is so important.

[Danielle Henderson]

Oh, God.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, it just wraps it up so amazingly truly.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, this film is good. It's truly incredible. And I think it's, it's. I don't see it being discussed enough or a lot anymore because it's, you know, over 20 years old. But yeah, it still feels fresh, it still feels interesting. It's still one of the most unique protagonists, if you can call her a protagonist that I've seen. And again, Samantha Morton is absolutely fucking amazing in this movie. And Lynne Ramsay just knocked it out of the park. It's an evocative film. And again, as we talked about with Monster, the way that most art should do, it really runs you through the fucking gamut of emotions.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, totally. Very complicated. But like, also, like, you gotta, like, you just gotta let it wash over you. Because if you're looking for like a real straight up narrative structure, like, you know, if you're looking for something really formalist, it's not happening. Like, this is like an experience, right? It's very emotional. The audio is you know, very strange for some people, you know, but I. I think it's great. So I'm so happy that I saw this again. I say that every week. It sounds like it's bullshit, but I really, truly love doing this podcast because it means I get to rewatch stuff that I haven't seen in forever.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah, you. Me, both. I love it. And I think that, you know, obviously I picked the theme and gave it kind of a jokey. Yeah, a joke. We have a kind of a jokey theme for what is honestly a very serious. Couple of very serious movies, of course. But I also really like the. And want to kind of just pick your brain for a minute about what does it mean to have these films or how do we feel about watching these two films back to back that are about women and crime and death? That isn't really presented in the way that we normally see those things presented.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, listen, I. This was sort of accidentally the best double double feature I think I've seen in a long time. Like, they weren't made that far apart from each other. Like 2002, 2003.

[Danielle Henderson]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And when you think about it in the context of, like, what was going on at that time, like, culturally, I mean, didn't we just talk about Woodstock 99? Like, I always say the, like, late 90s, early 2000s was, like, a low point for feminism in our. In our culture. Like, all of the, you know, the music and the weird shit that was happening back then, you know, but then we have these.

[Danielle Henderson]

Then we have these two films that I think were potentially a changing of the tide about how we could look at and discuss women in a new way.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And it could have easily been different, I'll just say, to that exact point. It could have been different. If these movies were made by men. Can you imagine if these movies were made by men in the era that they were being made?

[Danielle Henderson]

It would have been pure comedy slasher bullshit.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. It would have been like, this is a up woman. And like, look how fucked up she is. And, like, she kills men.

[Danielle Henderson]

I want to give more. I want my. To give more credit to men and hope that they wouldn't have done that. But I was alive during that era and watching movies during that era, and they absolutely would have. There was no grace for women back then until movies like this came along.

[Millie Decherico]

No, I saw enough Girls Gone Wild commercials back then to where I was like, nah, wouldn't have been handled well. I just get that feeling. Get the feeling. But the fact that they were made by women and who were like great filmmakers, man. I think it was the absolute difference in the early 2000s. Let's get serious.

[Danielle Henderson]

That's what brings in all the layering and all the emotion and all the things that we've been discussing about these points that are so strange and new and interesting. That's where that comes from is this, you know, having the emotional input of. Of women. I think they both these directors, writers, they knocked it out of the park. It's great.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Danielle Henderson]

Both films are so great.

[Millie Decherico]

Women are complicated and I love complicated women's stories. I like watching art about it, so hooray. Good job this week. If you want to email us, we are at I saw what you did. Pot Gmail.com please send us questions for bonus episodes and please write to our P.O. box. We have one.

[Danielle Henderson]

We do. And you can find the address on our link tree, which is on most of our social media. You can find us on our social media Saw pod on Instagram, Blue sky and tw Twitter. You can also now leave us a voicemail to play on the show. All you have to do is record a voice memo on your phone and email it to I saw what you did pot gmail.com please make it 60 seconds or less and please record it in a quiet space.

[Millie Decherico]

If you have merch needs, please go to exactlyrightstore.com and we have bonus episodes.

[Danielle Henderson]

New bonus episodes of our a podcast. Drop on the main feed every third Thursday of the month.

[Millie Decherico]

Danielle, what are the movies for next week?

[Danielle Henderson]

Our movies for next week are fish tank from 2009 and out of the blue from 1980.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, well, as always, Danielle, a pleasure doing this podcast with you.

[Danielle Henderson]

The best.

[Millie Decherico]

Bye. Bye.

[Danielle Henderson]

This has been an exactly right production. Our senior producer is Casey O'Brien. Episode mixing and theme music by Tom Breyfogel. Artwork by Garrett Ross. Our executive producers are Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgariff and Danielle Kramer. You can follow us on Instagram and Twitter at isawpod and you can email us at I saw what you did. Podmail.