PTA and One Battle After Another (2025)

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You Episode: PTA and One Battle After Another (2025) Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O’Brien Release Date: November 4, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Paul Thomas Anderson’s 2025 film One Battle After Another, a sprawling, genre-mixing epic based on Thomas Pynchon’s Vineland. As self-professed PTA fans with sharply contrasting tastes in his oeuvre, Millie and Casey analyze the film's tangled narrative, robust performances, and political themes—including revolution, family, paranoia, and white supremacy—through personal anecdotes, sharp critique, and plenty of movie geek banter. It’s a wide-ranging, honest, and funny conversation for anyone feeling overwhelmed by both contemporary cinema and contemporary life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Initial Banter & Movie Context

• [01:47] The hosts catch up, riffing on Halloween hangovers and ongoing baseball obsessions.
• [09:18] They introduce the main event: One Battle After Another—a three-hour political/family/horror/thriller hybrid, and prime “movie meat on the bone.”
• [14:25] Millie notes the audience at her 70mm screening: “Just filled with men, filled with a lot of, I’m assuming straight white guys … Some of them smelled, and that was distracting.”

2. Personal Histories with PTA

• [26:10] Casey: Early PTA films were “foundational” and made him want to attend film school, but he found There Will Be Blood “more soulless.”
  • “Maybe his early movies hit me at a time that changed my life, and I’m just holding his movies now to too high a standard.” (33:03)
• [28:05] Millie: The opposite—she’s less enamored with Magnolia and Punch-Drunk Love, preferring later works. “I think Phantom Thread is a masterpiece. I’m just going to throw that out there.” (31:55)
• Both agree PTA’s obsession with fatherhood is a through-line—though their favorite entries differ.

3. Plot Breakdown & Thematic Analysis

Setup and Synopsis

• [24:05, 36:59] Casey provides a clear, spoiler-light synopsis:
  • Revolutionary group French 75 stages bombings and immigrant rescues.
  • Ghetto “Pat” Calhoun (Leonardo DiCaprio) and Perfidia Beverly Hills (Teyana Taylor) are lovers and central members.
  • Perfidia’s affair with military man Colonel Lockjaw (Sean Penn) leads to entanglements, betrayals, and a daughter named Willa.
  • Sixteen years later, Pat is now “Bob,” a stoned burnout raising Willa while hiding from Lockjaw, whose white supremacist club (the Christmas Adventurers) sets him on a hunt.

Tone & Structure

• The movie is described as “a political polemic meets family story, meets kind of, I don’t know, like horror. There’s horror elements to it … or bare minimum thriller elements.” (09:28)
• Millie: “There hasn’t been a movie character that has terrified me more than [Colonel Lockjaw] in damn near thirty years.” (41:29)
• Both note the mix of tense, frightening violence with absurd, satirical elements—a hallmark of both PTA and Pynchon.

Themes

• Fatherhood: A pivot from PTA’s usual “enigmatic father” theme to the dad’s perspective, especially through Leo’s Ghetto Pat/Bob. (53:49+)
  • “I related to the movie in that regard, but also I related to this movie physically in a way … Leo is always late, he's always harried, he's always disheveled. ... Honestly, that's how I feel all the time as a dad.” — Casey [49:04, 50:52]
• Race & Identity: Willa’s biracial identity and family struggles mirror Anderson’s real-life family.
  • Millie: “Not only is this movie about dads, but it's also about their kids … this movie is the most that has happened in versus some of the other movies where it feels like maybe PTA was writing from the child's perspective; in that way it feels like now he's writing from the dad's perspective.” [53:49]
• Power & White Supremacy: The Christmas Adventurers Club, a secret society fuelled by racism, becomes a locus of both dark satire and terror.
  • “It’s this over-the-top white supremacist organization that uses all this Christmas lingo, like Hail St. Nick … but I absolutely think white people are doing this. Like old white people are congregating in this very ridiculous way ... celebrating their whiteness.” — Millie [55:40, 57:03]

4. Standout Performances & Characters

Leonardo DiCaprio (“Ghetto Pat”/Bob)

• Both hosts celebrate DiCaprio’s comedic physicality and late-career turn as a nuanced, messy dad.
  • “Since Wolf of Wall Street, I feel like he's realized … I'm actually a very good comedic actor.” — Casey [49:04]
  • “He plays [the fumbly, bumbly stoner dad] so good … those characters that he plays are so good and he plays them so good.” — Millie [48:57]

Sean Penn (Colonel Lockjaw)

• Universally heralded: “There hasn’t been a movie character that has terrified me more than this ... He's amazing at playing a hyper-militaristic, crazy, racist, like, politically charged psychopath.” — Millie [41:29]
• “He's probably going to win another Academy Award.” — Casey [44:18]
• “He’s like a fucking goofball idiot … and yet this is the type of guy in our world that has a lot of power and is the one that will kill you.” — Casey [43:03]

Benicio del Toro (Sergio San Carlos)

• Sergio is “the calming force” and mastermind of the sanctuary city’s underground resistance—both hosts swoon.
  • “He was like the father figure in this movie to me, the viewer. I was like, take care of me, please.” — Casey [67:13]
  • Millie describes her lifelong Benicio crush and how his role as a protector for undocumented immigrants was peculiarly moving, given personal context. [65:54, 70:15]

Notable Breakout: Chase Infinity (“Willa”)

• “She was good … She was named after Nicole Kidman’s character in Batman Forever, Chase Meridian, and Buzz Lightyear’s line ‘to infinity and beyond’.” — Casey [24:52]

5. Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “There hasn’t been a movie character that has terrified me more than this in damn near thirty years or something … This guy Lockjaw exists right now.” — Millie (41:27)
• “He walks like a doofus. He has a stupid Three Stooges haircut. He kind of walks like the Three Stooges … yet this is the type of guy in our world that has a lot of power and is the one that will kill you.” — Casey (43:24)
• “I related to this movie physically in a way … Leo is always having to grab several bags and run out the door. He’s always late, he’s always harried, he’s always disheveled. And honestly, that’s how I feel all the time as a dad…” — Casey (50:52)
• “You are the first and maybe the only white guy I want to talk to about this movie.” — Millie (91:12)
• “Wokeness will not save you was kind of like what I felt at the end of the movie.” — Casey (75:41)

6. Notable Chapter Timestamps

• PTA’s Career & Dad Themes: 14:45–33:03
• Plot Recap/Synopsis: 24:05–39:36
• Colonel Lockjaw & Satire of White Supremacy: 41:17–61:20
• Benicio del Toro’s Sergio Section: 65:54–73:35
• Password/Bureaucracy Running Gag: 75:48–77:17
• Hope and Realities of Resistance/Community: 72:28–79:34
• Final Confrontation & DNA Test Scene: 80:42–84:54

7. Additional Highlights

• The bureaucracy of revolutionary movements gets a playful roast with the running “password” gag (75:48), illustrating the sometimes paralyzing rules and internal debates of the left.
• Personal connections and immigrant experiences lend poignancy to the themes of sanctuary and solidarity (70:15–73:35).
• The hosts discuss “helping for the sake of helping,” and how important it is that people quietly perform good deeds—contrasted with the outrageous performativity of social media activism (78:24).

8. Film Recommendations (Employee Picks)

• Millie: Born in Flames (1983, dir. Lizzie Borden)—a revolutionary, punk-infused feminist film set in an alternate NYC, now restored on Criterion. [92:45]
• Casey: Support the Girls (2018, dir. Andrew Bujalski)—a slice-of-life dramedy set in a “breastaurant,” featuring Regina Hall and Jungle Pussy. [95:48]

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Memorable Moments

• Benicio’s Influence: Millie shares her custom Romancing the Stone Benicio Photoshop screensaver (67:31), and proclaims, “If present-day Benicio del Toro was single and wanted a wife, I would definitely be his wife.” (68:47)
• White Supremacist Parody: The Christmas Adventurers Club is described as a “white supremacist organization that uses all this Christmas lingo like Hail St. Nick … but I absolutely think white people are doing this.” (55:40)
• Confronting Real Fears: Millie’s emotional response to immigration themes, reflecting on her own immigrant parents, and the quiet heroism of resistance networks (70:18).
• Millie’s Backhanded Compliment: “You are the first and maybe the only white guy I want to talk to about this movie.” (91:12)
• Woke Satire: Both hosts relish that the film skewers both leftist performativity and right-wing delusion.

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Final Thoughts

Both hosts agree: One Battle After Another is among PTA’s most urgent, personal, and socially resonant movies. Millie and Casey praise its blend of dense narrative, emotional power, and bleak but hopeful honesty. Above all, it’s a movie about surviving in a world of “one battle after another”—and finding unlikely comradery, love, and meaning along the way.

Next week: A palate cleanse with 1987’s Predator.

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Follow the podcast @dearmoviesiloveyou on Instagram | Email: [e-mail]

Transcript

[Bridget Armstrong]

This is exactly right.

[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Cherico]

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Ben Westoff]

I'm Ben Westoff and this is the Peacemaker, a true crime podcast about a string of mysterious suicides at a Missouri university and the fraternity brother tied to them all, Brandon Grossheim.

[Casey O'Brien]

The lawsuit says Grossheim was one of the last people to see each victim before their deaths.

[Ben Westoff]

Was he profoundly unlucky or was something much darker at. Listen to the Peacemaker podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Bridget Armstrong]

I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new podcast the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show.

[Millie de Cherico]

I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Issues, by talking to the models, the producers and the people who profited from it all.

[Millie de Cherico]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich. If you're rooting for her and saw her drowning, why don't you help her.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Listen to the Curse of America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie de Cherico]

Hey, Casey, how's it going this week?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie? Pretty good. Now I wanted to talk about something at the top of the show because we are, you know, we're a podcast, but we're also a news service and there's some Bradley Cooper news coming in.

[Millie de Cherico]

The bcnn, the Bradley Cooper News Network.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right.

[Millie de Cherico]

The lights are lighting up in the control room. Feels like we've got breaking news and.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know how breaking this is since it's been out for a little bit, but he has a new movie coming out and it's called Is this Thing On? And it's about stand up comedy and it stars Will Arnett and it was co written with Will Arnett and Bradley Cooper and Mark Chappell and Will Arnett plays a stand up comedian. And we just watched a trailer together. Did you have any thoughts that jumped out at you when we watched it together?

[Millie de Cherico]

What are your thoughts on Will Arnett? He's. He's a smoker or former smoker. He has to be.

[Casey O'Brien]

Has to be. From the voice and the complexion and the general. His hair and his open shirts, his. You can tell he's a. He's a smoker.

[Millie de Cherico]

He's a cracky hottie, I would say.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I. I like Will Arnett. I'm a fan. I think he hasn't done anything that I've loved as much as Arrested Development. When he was doing that show Flake on Netflix. Do you remember that show? I think he created that show, but he was in it, and it was set in Venice Beach. I was working in Venice at the time, so I would see him out and about all the time. But I like him in general. I'm a fan.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. How about you? I think it's fine. I don't think it's fair that he has an extremely successful podcast with two other extremely famous people. I feel like that's not fair.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, that does get into a bigger conversation about celebrities and podcasts and if that is okay. And I feel like they were the.

[Millie de Cherico]

Kind of first, really, that I noticed anyway.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, like, they were very. Yeah, they were one of the more public, big famous people. Podcasts coming out. I mean, there are peers. You know, they're po. He's a podcaster, so he's our peer.

[Millie de Cherico]

I'm sure I. I sometimes will see clips from. Is there, like, a documentary about. It's like.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think there was the show. The podcast is called Smartless, I believe. And I've. I've. I think I've listened to one or two episodes, but there was, like, an HBO doc that was, like, in black and white with them on tour, I think.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, it was like, I see clips of it, and I'm like, what is this, like, Depeche Mode 101?

[Casey O'Brien]

Where they're like, you know, what is this? Madonna? Truth or Dare? Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

You know, D.A. pennebaker's doing this, and I feel like it's just not fair. It's simply not fair.

[Casey O'Brien]

I do like the podcast format because it is a democratic art form in that you can compete at the same level as a Will Arnett and Jason Bateman podcast with just the microphone in your little office. Kind of like what we're doing.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, I probably have more thoughts about that, but I'll just keep them to myself.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I also have more thoughts, but. So we watched the trailer for Is this Thing On? And I must say, Bradley Cooper is not the star of this one. He appears to be in it though. And I don't know, it seems to lack that passionate mania that Bradley Cooper's first two movies, A Star Is Born and Maestro had. That was just my opinion from the trailer.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, I feel like there is. Yeah, you're right. I feel like there's not a crazy accent from Bradley Coops in this one which bums me out or like a, you know, strange appendage.

[Casey O'Brien]

It really is lacking a crazy accent. And both the first two movies did have that. It is. There is a through line of it being about a performer, you know.

[Millie de Cherico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I think that every movie about stand up comedy, with the exception of, I would say of the king of comedy, but a lot of them have a scene where this person is failing and they just start. Are failing on stage and then they start getting real and talking about their life and that's when the crowd buys in, you know, And I just don't know if standup really works that way where you can be that off the cuff and it work that well, you know.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. Because there's never a moment where this like drunk dude from Cincinnati or something like screams in the middle of it and.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, shut up.

[Millie de Cherico]

Stop talking, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

I am.

[Millie de Cherico]

I do not gravitate towards movies about stand up comedy, do you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Me neither. I would say I'm gravitating away from them. I'm flying out into outer space. Away from.

[Millie de Cherico]

Has there ever been a movie like an introspective, soul searching movie about improv?

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, there's the Mike Birbiglia movie, Don't Think Twice, which I actually thought was pretty good. And it is about improv. But to your point, there. There aren't many. That's not a genre of movie that there's a lot of entries into, you know, interesting.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, I. Listen, I am probably gonna see this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, got it.

[Millie de Cherico]

A little bummed that, you know, Bradley Coops isn't in front with a strange fake nose or, you know, some kind of weird beard. But yeah, I mean, go ahead, dude, do your thing. I mean, you just get to do things when you want to at this point. And I guess it's kind of interesting the kinds of things that you decide to do given all your power. So I don't know. We'll see.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, that was our trailer review for Is this Thing On. So watch this space for any further developments on that story with regards to Bradley Cooper and his new movie, Millie. We got a big show today. We're talking about a big movie that came out this year.

[Millie de Cherico]

We are. And you know, I am, I am just getting over the Halloween season right now. Yeah, it was. I've got such a hangover from it, I have to say. It was just a lot going on. But this is an episode that we've been wanting to do for a couple of weeks now. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

We had to kind of hold on to this one to get through the Halloween season.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. Which is good because it feels like maybe it gave people enough time to watch it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

So.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's like, I hope that's the case. I hope that people were able to watch it and will join, like, get to enjoy this conversation a little bit more.

[Millie de Cherico]

We are going to get into the new Paul Thomas Anderson movie, One battle after another. Made in 2025.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right.

[Millie de Cherico]

Released in 2025. And it's a three hour long political polemic meets family story, meets kind of, I don't know, like horror. There's horror elements to it. There's.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was scared.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. Or bare minimum thriller elements. But it's, it's quite an undertaking and I feel like both of us are big PTA fans and I think we're gonna have our own entry points into it based on, you know, what we've enjoyed by him in the past. And yeah, it should be pretty interesting.

[Casey O'Brien]

So this is a big. This is a big one. Yeah, he's a big, big one of the big guys. Directors. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm excited. Very excited.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. So stay tuned. It's gonna be a interesting episode for sure. And you're listening to Dear movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you. And I've got to know if you love me too. Yes or no? Check the box below.

[Casey O'Brien]

Whenever I got through the window, I tried to pick him up and his body was stiff.

[Ben Westoff]

I'm Ben Westoff and this is the Peacemaker, a true crime podcast investigating a string of mysterious deaths at a prestigious Missouri university. And the fraternity brother at the center of it all. A few years back, two fraternity brothers died by suicide just weeks apart. In shockingly similar ways, both were discovered by the same student, Brandon Grossheim.

[Casey O'Brien]

I laid him down and proceeded. I tilted his head back and proceeded again, mouth to mouth. Cpr.

[Ben Westoff]

At first, people gave Brandon the benefit of the doubt. But when three more acquaintances died the following year, the tide turned.

[Casey O'Brien]

The lawsuit says Gross Heim was one of the last people to see each victim before their deaths.

[Ben Westoff]

Was he profoundly unlucky or was something much darker at play? Listen to the Peacemaker podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Think back to the early 2000s. You're flipping through TV channels and then you hear this.

[Millie de Cherico]

I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. How dare you learn something from this?

[Bridget Armstrong]

But looking back 20 years later, that iconic show so many of us love is horrifying.

[Ben Westoff]

Robin, first of all, is too old.

[Casey O'Brien]

To be starting model.

[Millie de Cherico]

She's huge.

[Bridget Armstrong]

I talked to cast, crew and producers who were there for some of the show's most shocking moments.

[Millie de Cherico]

If you were so rooting for her.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Why don't you help her with never before heard interviews? The Curse of America's Next Top Model examines why this show was so popular and where it all went wrong.

[Millie de Cherico]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Listen to the Curse of America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts on or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie de Cherico]

On.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ghosted by Roz Hernandez. The scariest thing isn't always the ghost. Sometimes it's the guests. Like when Bob the drag queen stopped by to talk about a bedtime visitor. She kind of looked like the girl from the grudge. Sleep paralysis is terrifying. From haunted houses to alien encounters, celebrities and comedians share their creepiest, weirdest, and funniest paranormal stories. Light a candle. Hold onto your Ouija board and join me every Monday for good. Ghosted on the exactly Right network. Listen to Ghosted by Roz hernandez on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie de Cherico]

Hello, everybody. You are listening to the podcast your movies. I love you. This is a little thing we do for those who are in a relationship with movies. Are you laughing?

[Casey O'Brien]

It's just a little thing we do.

[Millie de Cherico]

Nobody knows this but me and Casey, but I'm very close to having a mental breakdown right now, so maybe this is gonna get weird. I actually kind of feel a little bit like Leo in this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was gonna say you're kind of going through one battle after another.

[Millie de Cherico]

I know. I do feel like a pinch on care. A stoned, desperate pinch on character who's on the fritz. Yeah, emotionally. My name is Millie de Chericho.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie de Cherico]

And yeah, as we just alluded to, we're going to do a little movie called One Battle After Another, directed by Paul Thomas Anderson. And we're probably going to go a little bit longer than usual on this just because there's a lot of meat on this bone and it's three hours long.

[Casey O'Brien]

Juicy one. Yeah, it's A long movie. And it's a long. He has a pretty, like, packed career, and he's not even done yet. You know, he just has a. There's a lot of movies in there.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, consequential movies. So.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, and I already, like, a couple. Was it a couple episodes ago, I talked about how I went to the screening here in Atlanta. It was in 70 millimeter, and how it was just filled with men, filled with a lot of, like, I'm assuming straight white guys. I assume that they're straight. They were definitely white, and they were definitely guys. And some of. Some of them smelled, and that was distracting. But then I started, you know, thinking about. I think we brought it up, the idea that this movie is sort of about fatherhood. And then a lot of his movies are about fatherhood.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I think I said one daddle after another.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes. Which was very funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's very good.

[Millie de Cherico]

But that you had mentioned that you kind of didn't clock that about him. And I was, like, stunned, because I just feel like that's so obvious.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I'm an idiot. I don't know. What do you want from me?

[Millie de Cherico]

I know, but I. But then I feel like now that, you know, that we can get into it because you're dad, and maybe. Maybe this movie will resonate on that tip a little bit. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Oh, it certainly. I mean, it. It certainly did. So we'll get into that.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, okay, so let me ask you this.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Did you watch any movies this week? Because I did not.

[Casey O'Brien]

I watched. You know, we're rounding out, you know, finishing up Halloween stuff, so there's a few more horror movies that I had to check out. And so I've got quite a few. And let me know if you've seen any of these, Millie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. I watched a lot. I'm only gonna highlight a few. Okay.

[Millie de Cherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

So one movie that we watched that Trisha thought was really bad, I thought was okay. Was 2007's 1408 with John Cusack.

[Millie de Cherico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Where he's a writer. He's like a guy who stays in haunted hotels, and he stays in the room 1408 at the Dolphin Hotel in New York. And it's haunted. It's kind of like the Shining, except it all takes place in one room. Have you seen that movie?

[Millie de Cherico]

No, I have not.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was okay. It's based on a Stephen King short story. But it made me think about, like, what happened to John Cusack.

[Millie de Cherico]

Actually saw him on Instagram or TikTok or something at the. No Kings Protest.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's a big activist. I mean, I do kind of know what happened to him. He's like a big activist. He lives in Chicago. And that's fine. Like, that's great. And I, like, agree with him politically and it's like, really cool that he's outspoken about that stuff. But he is still making movies to this day. And he's in a lot of movies that were, like, made in China or kind of those like, geezer teaser type movies, like direct to video style movies that you've never heard of. And I guess I'm just kind of like, why aren't you in a prestige television show? Or like, why do they just not make John Cusack type movies anymore? I really love him. He's in some movies I really love and I love him as an actor. So it's just sort of made me think about that when we watched 1408.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, cool. Interesting. Yeah, it is interesting how he has kind of peeled off the movies a little bit and is sort of now just doing his life.

[Casey O'Brien]

But he's still making as many movies. Yeah, he's making a movie a year, but they're just. You've never heard of them, you know?

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, but I. I don't know. I feel like he was. He was a child actor and I'm.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, all right, maybe he just is, like, over it. He just wants to do easy stuff that'll make money.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, he's gonna get this, the sack, insurance and the paycheck and then just move on.

[Casey O'Brien]

So this isn't a criticism of him. I really like him. I just would like to see him in more, I guess, high quality stuff that I want to go see, but, you know, whatever. Then we watched Wes Craven's new nightmare from 1994, which is kind of the meta Freddy Krueger movie. It was good, scary. It stars the original Nancy and she's like, playing herself as an actress who is haunted by Freddy, who's cool.

[Millie de Cherico]

You're talking about Heather Langenkamp.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, she plays herself, but is, like, hunted by Freddy. And like, Robert England is in the movie too, as himself. But Freddie is this, like, demonic creature that is like outside of the movie and is haunting people, killing them, slicing them up. It was good. I liked it. Then I watched this movie called the church from 1989. This is not directed by Dario Argento, but it was, like, produced by Dario Argento and I think it was written by him and it's got his daughter Asia Argento in it. And it's about a church built upon Kind of like a graveyard. So it's like there's some demonic presence underneath this church, and it's pretty goofy, but it was fun. So that's about it for the movies I saw this week.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, you did better than me, that's for damn sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's okay. You know, sometimes movies. You know, watching movies can be tough. It's a large chunk of time. If you don't have, like, two hours set aside, you can't do it, you know, and you've got a crazy week. So how can you incorporate that into your life?

[Millie de Cherico]

I know. Plus, I've been watching a lot of Dodgers baseball, so I can't. You know, that's almost like a movie. Three hours.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Have you ever dreamt about Shohei Ohtani? Has he, like, Freddy Krueger? Has he entered your dreams?

[Millie de Cherico]

I wish. I very rarely have dreams. I don't know why. I think it's because I'm just tense and I don't sleep very well. But I dream about him in my waking life all the time. I do. I mean, I'm very happy that he is married with a child, of course. And his wife seems cool. She's a basketball player.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

And they seem like they have a really great life. But he's extremely attractive. He's both, like, hot and cute. Have I talked about this where it's, like, it's very rare to be hot and cute at the same time.

[Casey O'Brien]

He's very gentle, too. People have pointed. I'm not the first one to point this out, but his batting stance when he's up at the plate, you know, some guys look, like, mean and are grimacing up there, but he's just kind of like, la, la, la. Like, he's just kind of, like, curious and, like, kind of wistfully smiling up there as he, like, hits a ball 8,000ft in the air.

[Millie de Cherico]

Out of the stadium, actually. Out of the stadium. Yeah. And he also. I love when it interviews and people are like, are you nervous at all about that? And he's like, no, but he's like, no.

[Casey O'Brien]

Why would. Why would a person be like that?

[Millie de Cherico]

I know. I mean, this is the kind of. This is the kind of relationship I need in my life as I need this, like, steady oak tree that he is a tree.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is tree. Like, yes.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, just. But just, like, real, even killed, you know, I'm. I'm. Right now, I'm on the fritz. I mean, look at me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

I'm losing my fucking mind right now. It would be great to have this, like, calm presence Just be like, no, it's gonna be fine. Like, I will hit three home runs in one game. It's gonna be great.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. You know, we all need a Shohei in our lives. Unfortunately, neither Millie nor I are Shohei Ohtani, like, in our calmness, so.

[Millie de Cherico]

But let me. Let me tell you, though, I mean, I don't want this to be about Dodgers talk necessarily. Although the World Series is happening right now, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Cherico]

Roki Sasaki. That's my.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's your guy.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, he's. I love that kid. Are you kidding?

[Casey O'Brien]

Redemption.

[Millie de Cherico]

Redemption. All these fucking assholes that made fun of him for crying. I'm like, you're a fucking monster. If you made fun of Roki Sasaki for crying because he was upset at his performance, you're a monster. Fuck you. But then look at him now. He's doing great. And he's again, another, like, sweet Japanese man.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I do like that. The Dodgers, they have all these Japanese players on there. It's like the go to destination for Japanese baseball players.

[Millie de Cherico]

Listen, they got three Japanese guys, they got a Korean guy. They got a half Korean guy. They got plenty of, you know, Spanish speaking players. I mean, dude, they're the best. They're the best. So fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

Got to get Craig Calcatera back on the show. I know.

[Millie de Cherico]

It's almost like baseball doing a baseball podcast with Craig.

[Casey O'Brien]

Anyway, anywho, let's close it up. Let's close this diary up.

[Millie de Cherico]

Bye bye, diary.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, everybody, we are back for our main discussion. We're talking about one battle after another from 2025, directed by Paul Thomas Anderson, written by Paul Thomas Anderson, and it's based on the Thomas Pynchone novel Vineland. Just for some cataloging purposes, the genre of this movie, I would say it's a comedy, drama, action, and some of the themes include immigration, terrorism, militarization, paranoia. It's a stoner movie. Racism, family dynamics, standout actors, Leonardo DiCaprio, Sean Penn, Teyana Taylor. And introducing Chase Infinity. She was good.

[Millie de Cherico]

I loved her.

[Casey O'Brien]

Do you know how she got her name?

[Millie de Cherico]

No.

[Casey O'Brien]

She was named after Nicole Kidman's character in Batman Forever, Chase Meridian, and Buzz Lightyear's line to infinity and beyond. So that's how she got her name, which if that feels like a name in this movie, actually. But anyways.

[Millie de Cherico]

So you're telling me that she was named after Buzz Lightyear?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, her middle name was named after the slogan that Buzz Lightyear says.

[Millie de Cherico]

Wow, that is. That is deep, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, and she was good. She was good in this famous Quotes. Were there any quotes that came to mind that you think will be famous? I have one, maybe.

[Millie de Cherico]

Spill. What is it?

[Casey O'Brien]

When the cops ask Benicio del Toro if he's been drinking and he's like, I've had a few small beers. Yeah, that's.

[Millie de Cherico]

That's the quote that I've seen online of people just quoting things. I got so much to say about Benicio. We might.

[Casey O'Brien]

I can tell.

[Millie de Cherico]

We might have to start another podcast on top of the baseball one.

[Casey O'Brien]

He has inspired my whole. My life since watching that movie. Personal connections to Millie or Casey. I'll start.

[Millie de Cherico]

Go ahead.

[Casey O'Brien]

PTA was and is one of the foundational filmmakers for me when I was kind of entering film fandom. You know the three movies in a row, Boogie Nights, Magnolia, and Punch Drunk Love. Those are, like, some of my favorite. When those came out, those totally blew my mind. Some of my absolute favorite movies I'd ever seen. After I watched Magnolia, I was like, I should go to film school. That was kind of the movie that made me want to go to film school.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I have to say those. You know, Hard 8, his first movie, and then Boogie Nights, Magnolia, and Punch Drunk Love, those all kind of have a similar vibe to them. They feel like they're made by the same director, because they are. And there's kind of a poetry to them. There's a lot of needle drops, and they're beautiful and sensitive and emotional. And then he made There Will be blood in 2007, and everyone was obsessed with it, and I was kind of like, what is this movie?

[Millie de Cherico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know I'm in the minority here, and I know they're going to take away my cinephile card, but I've had a. It felt more soulless to me, and I've sort of felt that way about all of his movies since then, including the Master and Phantom. Thread movies I like a lot, but they feel like they're made by a different director than his first four movies. And so I've had a hard time loving his movies since Punch Drunk Love until this one.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, I was gonna say, it seems like you had a little bit of a renaissance with him.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did.

[Millie de Cherico]

Are you done?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm done, yes.

[Millie de Cherico]

Sorry. Because I'm about to blow your fucking mind.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

I have the exact opposite opinion of you about Paul Thomas.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think a lot of people do.

[Millie de Cherico]

I have gone on record about this. Even though we did Magnolia on I saw what you did. That is my least favorite Paul Thomas Anderson movie. And it's like everyone's favorite. I'M not trying to be contrarian. I'm not trying to be, you know, an Edge Lord or something. I just simply don't like it as much as the other stuff. And I re watched Punch Drunk Love fairly recently. I didn't log it because I didn't finish it. I watched probably like the first three fourths of it and was kind of like, yeah, not feeling this one as much as as much either. I mean, I think pretty much those two, Magnolia and Punch Drunk Love, are like my least favorite. And then because I like the Beginning, I like Hard Eight, I like Boogie Nights, I don't like those two as much. And then for the rest of them, hell yeah. I mean, maybe with a slight, you know, I don't know. I should watch Licorice Pizza again. But I was living in LA when that movie came out, so I felt like. And it was such an LA movie or like a Valley movie, so it's. It felt something, you know, felt something different for me because I'm not from la. But.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Can I just say, I don't think you're wrong. I actually don't think. Even though, like, Magnolia, I haven't seen it in like 20 years too, I think I probably wouldn't like it as much. I think I would probably think it's like too saccharine or something. And I think movies like There Will Be Blood and the Master, I can look at those and be like, these are excellent. And I actually think that you could say they're better than Punch Drunk Love or Magnolia, but I just didn't connect with them as much.

[Millie de Cherico]

But there's also two. Those two movies, Magnolia and Punch Drunk Love, feel more set in the present.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Which is also something that one battle after another is like, is that it feels more set in contemporary times. But I feel like the rest of his movies are pretty much like, definitely Boogie Nights, but then of course, There Will Be Blood, the Master, Inherent Vice, Phantom Threat, all of these movies, Licorice Pizza, take place in the past.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's interesting. Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, and I also like that about those movies too. I like the construction of the world that happens when it's a period piece, you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I also think actually Boogie Nights, which came out in the 90s but was set in the 70s, there's an argument to be made that that is a contemporary movie of the 90s because the 90s were so obsessed with the 70s that it actually felt very of the time. It didn't feel as much of a period piece as, like, There Will Be Blood. Coming out in 2007, when it's set in, like, I don't know, the 1800s or 19, early 1900s or whatever.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, sure. I mean, there were actual girls on roller skates wearing hot pants from American Apparel in 1997. Sure, yeah. But I mean, for the MO. But it was a period piece. I mean, because of.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, yeah, it was. But I'm just saying it wasn't as disconnected from the. The time that it came out as other ones are.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well. And anyway, just to sum up, like anyone needs any more of my personal takes on Paul Thomas Anderson, because, like, who gives a shit? But it's really like, I do like him as a filmmaker, obviously. I think. I think that he likes directors that I like. Right? Robert Altman and Jonathan Demme. And like, that, to me, makes me like him because he likes good shit. Right. And he makes movies that are interesting to me. I think Phantom Thread is a masterpiece. I'm just going to throw that out there.

[Casey O'Brien]

I agree.

[Millie de Cherico]

I mean, it is one of my favorite movies of all time. And it's crazy to think that a movie that came out in the 2000s could ever be with my track record of watching movies made in the new millennium. But I also feel like it's undeniably great to me for so many different reasons. And I also think, too, that he's got good people in his movies. They're all. They all have. It's all about, like, dynamics, interpersonal dynamics between people, a lot of dad stuff, which we'll talk about later. And. Yeah, and I think that's why I like his. His movie so much.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I think I. And I just want to be clear. I think these movies are great. Like, I think Phantom Thread, the Master, the Wool Blood, these are like great movies. But when I saw. I just. And maybe this is. I think people have talked about this with Wes Anderson not connecting with his movies more recently. Maybe it is just like his early movies really hit me at a time that really honestly changed my life. And maybe I'm just holding his movies to too high of a standard now. Does that make sense?

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, it's true. I feel like they have similarities, I feel like. But I feel like Wes Anderson has moved way, way more into the precious. There's an artifice to his movies now that I know. I think Paul Thomas Anderson movies still feel pretty, like, real and not as fairy tale. Ish.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think Paul Thomas Anderson is pushing artistic limits with every movie he makes, and he's exploring something new every single time, which I don't necessarily think Wes Anderson is doing right now, even though I still like his movies a lot. Whenever I got through the window, I tried to pick him up and his body was stiff.

[Ben Westoff]

I'm Ben Westoff and this is the Peacemaker, a true crime podcast investigating a string of mysterious deaths at a prestigious Missouri university and the fraternity brother at the center of it all. A few years back, two fraternity brothers died by suicide just weeks apart in shockingly similar ways. Both were discovered by the same student, Brandon Grossheim.

[Casey O'Brien]

I laid him down and cursied. I tilted his head back and proceeded to get him mouth to mouth in cpr.

[Ben Westoff]

At first, people gave Brandon the benefit of the doubt. But when three more acquaintances died the following year, the tide turned.

[Casey O'Brien]

The lawsuit says Gross Heim was one of the last people to see each victim before their deaths.

[Ben Westoff]

Was he profoundly unlucky, or was something much darker at play? Listen to the Peacemaker podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Think back to the early 2000s. You're flipping through TV channels and then you hear this.

[Millie de Cherico]

I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. How dare you learn something from this.

[Bridget Armstrong]

But looking back 20 years later, that iconic show so many of us love, it's horrifying.

[Ben Westoff]

Robyn, first of all, is too old.

[Casey O'Brien]

To be starting model.

[Millie de Cherico]

She's huge.

[Bridget Armstrong]

I talked to cast, crew and producers who were there for some of the show's most shocking moments.

[Millie de Cherico]

If you were so rooting for her.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Why don't you help her with never before heard interviews? The Curse of America's Next Top Model examines why this show was so popular and where it all went wrong.

[Millie de Cherico]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich.

[Bridget Armstrong]

Listen to the Curse of America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hello, America's sweetheart. Johnny Knoxville here. I want to tell you about my new true crime podcast, Crimeless Hillbilly Heist from Smartless Media, Campside Media and big money Players. It's a wild tale about a gang of high functioning nitwits who somehow pulled off America's third largest cash heist.

[Millie de Cherico]

Kind of like Robin Hood, except for the part where he steals from the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Rich and gives to the poor. I'm not that generous. It's a damn near inspiring true story for anyone out there who's ever shot for the moon, then just totally muffed up the landing. They stole $17 million and had not bought a ticket to help him escape.

[Millie de Cherico]

So we're sitting like, oh, God, what do we do? What do we do?

[Casey O'Brien]

That was dumb.

[Millie de Cherico]

People, do not follow my example.

[Casey O'Brien]

Listen to Crimeless Hillbilly Heist on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's get into the synopsis a little bit now. I'm sorry, for those who haven't seen this movie, I think we'll try to maybe not spoil the climax. Does that sound okay, or do we want to get into that? Millie, what do you think?

[Millie de Cherico]

Let's just. Let's not try to spoil it, I suppose. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, okay, like we were saying, this is sort of set in contemporary times, but it also feels a little dystopian. It feels a little bit outside of our world. So the French 75. This is a revolutionary militant group that is carrying out bombings and freeing immigrants from detention centers. They could be described as terrorists, but they're kind of a military group, kind of like the Weather Underground. And two of its members, Ghetto Pat Calhoun, played by Leonardo DiCaprio and Perfidia Beverly Hills Teyana Taylor. They are central members of this group and they are in love. While they are freeing some immigrants in a detention center near the Mexican border, Perfidia encounters and sexually humiliates Colonel Stephen J. Lockjaw, played by Sean Penn. Now, this makes Lockjaw become obsessed with Perfidia, and she kind of is interested in him too, even though he is a bizarre man. But they start a sexual relationship and Perfidia has a baby, but she's still with Pat, played by Leonardo DiCaprio. So she has a baby. And we're not sure if it's Lockjaws or Ghetto Pats. But Perfidia has a difficult time with motherhood and she's a revolutionary. She can't be a stay at home mom, you know, so she kind of abandons Pat and her daughter Charlene during a bank robbery gone wrong. She kills a security guard and she is captured. Now she's looking at like 40 years in prison. So she rats out her entire crew to Lockjaw. And Lockjaw goes ahead and hunts down everybody from the French 75. And during this time, Ghetto Pat and his daughter Charlene, who gets a new name. We'll go into that later. But they go into hiding in the sanctuary city of Backton Cross. So that's kind of the setup of the whole. There's a very intense. The beginning of this. This movie really starts off with a bang and doesn't really stop. So this is like the whole beginning chunk of the movie. How are you feeling?

[Millie de Cherico]

I'm feeling good. That was an incredible synopsis. Even though, I mean, you really, like. Because there was so many moving parts. Did you not feel like this was the case?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Oh, yeah. I mean, this was very difficult for me to write all this down, but.

[Millie de Cherico]

Not quite as bad as Tetsu the.

[Casey O'Brien]

Iron man, but there was no transformation into, you know, an octopus slash, metal human going on in this. But it was almost as confusing.

[Millie de Cherico]

All right, well, now that we know what the movie is about.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

What were. What's your, like, general vibe like when you. When you finished it, three hours later?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Well, like, at the beginning part, I was, like, freaking out. I was having a hard time watching this. I was so anxious. Yes. I could not sit still. And it was like, a pretty much empty theater, and I was standing up and I was walking around because I was really having a hard time. I was like, I want to get out of here. Yeah, I want to leave. Even though it's good, obviously, but I was like, I want to get out of here so bad. This is, like, anxiety inducing. It is kind of scary. It felt kind of scary. I don't know how to. It felt like any violent thing could happen.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, I. I can see why you thought that it was loud. When I saw the screening, I mentioned that when. When we were. When we were talking about it before, when I logged it in my film diary, but we didn't really mention much. It was really loud. There's, like, a lot of gunfire, obviously, and, like, a lot of, you know, bombs and things going off. And I just was like, yo, this is stressing me out. Based on the noise level.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

But there was actually a lot going on in the movie that was actually distressing to me, which we'll probably talk about later, Involving Sean Penn's character.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Cherico]

His character. I will just say this before we get into the fine particulates, the granular details.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

There hasn't been a movie character that has terrified me more than this in damn near 30 years or something like his character. And he's really good at it, by the way. Yes. Sean Penn's a great actor. Is he amazing at playing a hyper, militaristic, crazy, racist, like, politically charged psychopath? Extremely. He's amazing at it. Like, he's extremely amazing at playing this character. And this is, like. This is part of, like, what I admire about certain filmmakers who are, like, going for, like, contemporary characterizations of people, or, like, they're going for, like, contemporary political conversations. Right. Is that they're drilling down into archetypes, you know, of like, people in the world right now. And it. This one was so triggering and good. Yeah. That I was like, I'm terrified of him. Like, he's like, he. This guy Lockjaw exists.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Right now. Is existing in our world right now. And I was like. I was like, couldn't get my fucking brain out of that. Like, I was just like, yeah, he is scarier than Freddy, Jason, Michael Myers, Pinhead and Jigsaw from Saw like put together in my mind.

[Casey O'Brien]

Honestly, I. Well, I think what makes him scary is, you know, the way you're describing him is like this militaristic, racist guy and you kind of think it's like, oh, is he like a smooth, elegant killing machine? He's like a fucking goofball idiot.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I think that's what's scarier. He walks like a doofus. He has a stupid Three Stooges haircut. He kind of walks like the Three Stooges.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And yet this is the type of guy in our world that has a lot of power and is the one that will kill you.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think that's what's scary about it.

[Millie de Cherico]

And as much as there's all this other sort of actually joyous, funny, warm hearted, inspirational at times moments of this film, the idea that he was this like metronome of like misery and fear and fucked upness, I just was like, I'm getting stressed. I'm getting fucking stressed. Because he's like hunting them, right? And it feels that way. It feels like a hunt. And Sean Penn was really good at it, I must say.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, he's probably going to win an Academy. Another one. Yeah, he's probably going to win another Academy Award. Okay, I'm going to go a little bit more into the synopsis.

[Millie de Cherico]

Sure, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Flash forward 16 years. Willa, who is, you know, ghetto. Pat's daughter is thriving high school student now. And pat, that's Leonardo DiCaprio's character. He goes by Bob now, but he's an absolute stoner, miserable guy. And they seem to be doing okay in hiding. Now things kind of get back into motion again because Lockjaw, the Sean Penn character, he is invited to join an elite secret white supremacist society called the Christmas Adventurers Club. Now he knows he won't be let in or won't be allowed to stay in the club if they find out he had relationship with black women or one black woman in particular, Perfidia. And he thinks that maybe Willa is his daughter. And she's out there in the world somehow. So in order to stay in the club, he basically has to fight, find this girl and deal with it and find out if she's his daughter. So he finds out where Pat and Willa live. And under the guise of basically an ice raid on the whole city where he lives, the city of Backon Cross, they go to find Willa and Pat and determine whether she is his child or not. In the meantime, Willa, they people find out that Lockjaw is coming. Will it gets rescued by A former French 75 member, Deandra, played by Regina hall, the great Regina Hall. And Pat is on the run. He's trying to find. There's a rendezvous point where they're bringing Willa, but he can't remember any of the goddamn old passwords because it's been 16 years. And he's basically smoked weed and done drugs the past 16 years. So things are in chaos right now. And that's where we left off. Now, what do you think about Leonardo? Do you like Leonardo?

[Millie de Cherico]

I feel like I talk about this, like, every six months on a podcast because I went through this whole thing on I saw what you did about my Leo Journey, which is that I did not like him at all until pretty much like his. Like, when he turned 40. Like, I pretty much only like him now that he's in his 40s and older. Yeah, it really kind of started with the Tarantino movies, to be completely honest with you. Well, and also Wolf of Wall street, which is. I think that was the actual movie that we did on I Saw what yout Did. That kind of made me have to state my case for Leo finally. But, I mean, this is like this character to me. First of all, I have to say, when I saw his character in this movie, I sort of. It felt very much like Joaquin's character and Inherent Vice. And maybe it's because they're both like Pynchon novels or they're tied to Pynchon properties, but it's like that kind of, like, hilarious, like, fumbly bumbly stoner guy, which is extremely amusing to me, not gonna lie. And I love that about his character, for sure. But also like Leo, I think in his older age, I think he's just been going for it in a way that I feel like. I mean, he's always been kind of like a little over the top, even as a child. Like, even as in his younger days, he was a little over the top. But I feel like in his old age, it's getting real good. Like his face turns completely red and you can see like veins popping out of his fucking neck and stuff. And, you know, like, I think about, you know, one of my favorite roles of his, which was in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood, you know, when he's just like making margaritas and drinking them in the pool, just being a drunk whiskey sour. Oh, yeah. Or like when he's cussed at himself for being drunk in his trailer and shit. Like that whole, like those like little ticks about his characters that are based on, like being too fucked up to like, get your shit together but still try to make it work in his life. Like, those characters that he plays are so good and he plays them so good. Does that make sense?

[Casey O'Brien]

I 100% agree. I thought nothing of him, honestly. I thought I kind of was anti Leo when he was doing Titanic.

[Millie de Cherico]

Sure, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Romeo and Juliet, Catch me if you can. Gangs of New York, all of these. Like when he's still kind of this fresh faced cutie, his acting was very, I don't know, he just wasn't doing very much and he was just like, aren't I beautiful? You know? But since Wolf of Wall Street, I feel like he's realized, you know what? I'm actually a very good comedic actor. I'm a very good physical comedic actor in kind of the way that Jack Nicholson was, I feel like. And since Wolf of Wall Street, I think he's become one of my favorite actors. I love him in Once Upon a Time in Hollywood. I loved him in. I mean, everyone hates this movie, but he's really good in don't look up. And he's doing that overwhelmed dad thing in that movie. And I thought he was incredible in this movie. And I just have to say, this movie is all about being a dad, obviously. And I related to the movie in that regard, but also I related to this movie physically in a way. Like every scene, Leo is having to grab several bags and run out the door. He's always late, he's always harried, he's always disheveled. And honestly, that's how I feel all the time as a dad especially. I'm always carrying like 19 things. I'm late, I have something spilled on me, I look like shit, I'm like screaming on the phone. And then I'm also taking care of my daughter, you know, So I felt like I really related to the physicality of this movie as well.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, I. That makes me laugh. Yeah. I mean, to get back to this larger point about PTA's movies being about Dads.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Let's get into it.

[Millie de Cherico]

Let's just lay it on the table. A lot of his movies are about dad issues, right? I think we can, obviously. And even if they're not directly, like in a magnolia kind of way, I mean, there's always characters that have a father and son type relationship. I mean, that's the way it was in Boogie Nights with Mark Wahlberg and Burt Reynolds. That's the way it is in the Master with Joaquin Phoenix and Philip Seymour Hoffman. I mean, a lot like There Will Be Blood, obviously another movie about fatherhood. And so it's kind of like it is sort of a. Well, that he returns to. I think what's really interesting about one battle after another, and a lot of people have said this is that, you know, his. He. He married. He's married Maya Rudolph, who herself is biracial and his is mixed race children. And that is a huge theme of this movie. Right. Is the idea of, you know, a child being potentially you know, the daughter of this crazy psycho, but that also her actual dad, I mean, the dad that's in her life, Bob, AKA Leo, is also white. And so, I mean, I don't know if it's because I'm biracial myself and I always gravitate towards characters that have that about them or like have. Are processing it. But it's interesting because it's like, I don't know, I mean, it feels like obviously he has a direct connection to, you know, the character of Willa and kind of her struggle with not just her who her dad is or who her dad could potentially be, but also her mom being this like revolutionary black woman who's now in hiding and that potentially she ratted out her people. And like, how does she feel about that? Because Willa is obviously the daughter of a revolutionary. She's a revolutionary herself. She's got that fire, you know. And so it's like this whole. To me, it feels like not only is this movie about dads, but it's also about their kids and about. And I feel like this, this movie is the most that that has happened in Versus, like some of the other movies where it feels like maybe PTA was writing from the child's perspective in that way. It feels like now he's writing from the dad's perspective, if that makes sense.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, no, I think that makes total sense. And I think you're right. I think that this feels more about being. Yeah, the. The inverse of that relationship. It's about being a dad rather than.

[Millie de Cherico]

Being the son Being the son of, like a mysterious, kind of enigmatic father figure. Right, yeah. Which I think is aging and growth and things like that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Cherico]

But I also like that for him, if that makes sense. Like, I like that he's kind of moved into, like, you know, and, I don't know, stone or dad territory. Like, that shit makes me laugh. Like, you know, it's like, I don't know. It felt very. Like it did feel like it was coming from the dad's perspective at this point and not the son.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah. And I'm. I. I think in that way, you know, I kind of talked about not feeling as connected to his movies with. Since Punch Drunk Love, I felt totally connected to this one. And I think partly it is because I'm not going to say this is his most personal movie, but it seems like there's a lot of him in this movie where you couldn't see that as much in other movies, or at least I couldn't. And I think that really had an effect on me when I was watching this. It just felt much more personal. And maybe I'm just more bought into this type of movie because I also have a biracial daughter.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes, you do. You do. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was pretty bought in immediately with this one.

[Millie de Cherico]

Can I take a hard left?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Cherico]

A hard eight, if you will. Talk about this Christmas Adventurers Club.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. I don't even know what to. This feels like very Thomas Pynchone, even though I have never really read anything by Thomas Pinchone. It's felt very silly. But I think in your notes you said you feel like this. Something like this totally exists. And I agree. I mean, it's like this over the top white supremacist organization that uses all of this Christmas lingo like Hail St. Nick and other things.

[Millie de Cherico]

Right. I mean, listen, I. This. I think I'm so happy at the end of the day that this movie had the silliness to it in the same way that Inherent Vice did. Like, because it really, if you, if it was really down the line, serious, I probably would have had a panic attack. I mean, it's very.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I think the silliness actually makes it scarier. Oh. Because it makes it much more, in a way, realistic. Because I feel like things being kind of silly and goofy and tragic and scary together is actually closer to real life. Sure.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. Yeah. Now that you've said it, that makes sense. That tracks for sure. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

It.

[Millie de Cherico]

We are at it.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's just my viewpoint.

[Millie de Cherico]

We're at an all time high of why I can't believe that this is actually happening. It feels like it's from a movie and like a ridiculous comedy farce at that. Yeah. But to me, like, I think just tempo wise, I was glad that it was silly. But I absolutely think that there are white people are doing this. Like old white people are congregating in this very ridiculous way, celebrating their whiteness, basically, and their purity and their Christianity in a scary, clandestine, fucking skull and bones kind of way. I mean, it was like, you know, and it. To me, I thought it was funny because there's that shot of like one of the guys that are coming into the. Like there's like an underground bunker or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

I loved this. Yes.

[Millie de Cherico]

And it's almost kind of like behind the shoulder shot of him, like moving through all the different, you know, ways to get down into this little layer where there's a bunch of fucking dudes sitting around a.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's like this huge underground compound. And it just. I feel like that was like really a good way of illustrating, like, how powerful and wealthy this organization is to just have this random underground, like huge underground compound under a random house like that. They're able to have something like that.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, it kind of the shot and the sequence kind of reminded me a little of Boogie Nights when Burt Reynolds is kind of moving through the house, kind of establishing the world. And like, you know, he's kind of moving around his place. That was kind of how it felt. But when he actually got down there and he saw his. His brothers, his Christmas brothers around the table, did you notice that one of them was Kevin Tige?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I did.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes. So I've been reading a lot about him because, I mean, I personally have not seen him in a long time. And I think a lot of people, if you don't know him by name, you'll know him in every. You'll recognize him. To me, he's most famous for being in Roadhouse with Patrick Swayze.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's what I first think of too.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, me too. And he's like, if you look at his face or look him up, you'll definitely know he is. Cause he's a great character actor. He's been in several things, but apparently he's been in not so great health over the years and was sort of not wanting to do movies. But then I guess PTA convinced him to do it and I don't know know, it kind of made me happy that he was in the movie at the end of the day.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think he Telegraphed something like, this is the old boys club. Like, it just. You just like. And the way he talks. He just. It's like menacing in the way that he's like a normal guy.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes. Oh, he was like the scariest white supremacist vampire of our nightmares. Like, he was that character, like, almost kind of like, just like the final boss of, like, old white dudes who are racist.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I remember him. He played Jason Siegel's dad on Freaks and Geeks. And he was like this hard ass, meaning dad. That is where it kind of like it got born to my head.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Kind of his scary quality. So it was. It was kind of thrilling to see him there.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. No, he is extremely good at being a scary dad. Like, he kind of reminds me. I. I think. I don't think he's from the South. I think he's actually from la. But he talks slow. Yeah. Oh, he's like a scary racist other dad. Like his, you know, he's like, you go to dinner at your friend's house in high school or middle school, and the dad is the only one talking and he's at the head of the table and he's like, everyone's scared of him. That's kind of how he reminds me. But he's really great at playing that. And he played it in spades in this movie, for damn sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think he might only have, like, two lines. Yeah, I don't think he even says that much. But it's just his. You feel his presence at that table.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, then. And then another person around the table was Tony Goldwyn, who. Who you know is a very. Another famous actor from Scandal. He was the President of the United States in Scandal. Come on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Have I talked about my Tony Goldwyn story?

[Millie de Cherico]

No, you have a Tony Goldwyn story. What is it?

[Casey O'Brien]

I used to work at a few restaurants in Venice owned by the same group. One was called Jelena and the other was Giusta. They're owned by this Jelena restaurant group. I don't know if they're all open still, but anyways, he would come into those restaurants all the time. So nice. The nicest guy working at this place was very stressful. It was very hip and it was always so busy. And some days it would just be a living nightmare working in there because it would just be so out of control and, like, things were going wrong in the kitchen and, like, customers were screaming at you. I mean, I got a guy, like, grabbed my collar and called me a cocksucker one time when I was working like, that's like. That's like the level of intensity sometimes. It was like working there. And we're having one of those days and I'm gonna get emotional talking about this.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, no.

[Casey O'Brien]

And Tony Goldwyn looks at me and he goes, can I talk to you for a second? And I was like, am I gonna get fucking reamed? Like, yelled at by Tony Goldwyn? And I'm like, hi, what's going on? And he's like, I just wanna say you and your entire staff are doing an incredible job here, and I just want you to know that. And I was like, thank you, Tony Goldwyn. And I've never forgot that. And so I am a fan for life and I love seeing him in anything.

[Millie de Cherico]

Hell, yeah, I. I'm glad you said that because I'm. I've always liked him. Even though he played the evil guy from Ghosts and shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

But he played. He can play a good bad guy. Yeah, but he's a bad guy in this. But I was. I was thrilled he was being inside. I feel like he's in a lot of procedurals and he was in Scandal and stuff.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think he's in Law Order, svu, Organized Crime now or he's in something like that. But I want. I was like, I'm glad to see him in, like an elevated, Oscar worthy movie, you know? So I was like, glad to see him in it.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. Wow. Good for him. Good for him. Making you feel good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Love him. And I could tell he had a good relationship with his kids. They were like teasing him and like giving him a hard time and, you know, good man, good. I mean, I don't know him at all, but he gets the Casey's seal of approval. There are a lot of celebrities that I would not give that seal of approval, but we won't go into that today.

[Millie de Cherico]

But that's another podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's another podcast altogether. Did you have anything else you wanted to say about dads?

[Millie de Cherico]

No, I was going to say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Or the Christmas.

[Millie de Cherico]

You can move on to the next part because I have more to say about this than anything.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. So, okay, we're getting into the Benicio section, which is. I know, the section that Millie's excited about. So. Okay. Pat needs help. He's not. He's high as hell. He can't remember the passwords. He's having a hard time backed in Cross is under siege by these military. This military group doing these, like, immigration raids, but really is looking for him and his daughter. So he seeks out the help of Willa's karate instructor Sergio San Carlos, played by Benicio del Toro. Now, this is very funny because he's like, I need your help. I need a gun. But it doesn't seem like they had a relationship necessarily before this. But it turns out that Sergio San Carlos is a bit of a revolutionary himself. He's like the man in charge of the entire undocumented community in Backedon Cross. And as soon as the ice raid comes in, the military comes in, he's like, all right, it's go time. And he has his whole team organize all these undocumented people into kind of an underground railroad situation. And it's like he was ready for this to happen. And he's a total calming force in the movie for the undocumented community, but also for Leo's character, Pat, who needs some calming down. So we get to spend a lot of time with Sergio, AKA Sensei. And it's a delight. It's really a delight. What. What were you feeling, Millie?

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

What are you feeling right now?

[Millie de Cherico]

So, so many things. So many things. I'll scope out and be a bit. A bit of a shithead.

[Casey O'Brien]

Here we go.

[Millie de Cherico]

Before I.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're putting on our shithead hat.

[Millie de Cherico]

On the shithead hat. I've always loved Benishu. Always, Always. Since the moment I saw him, I was on board.

[Casey O'Brien]

Love at first sight.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. I feel like it might have been Usual Suspects or Fear and Loathing or something. Like it was, I mean, he was in Big Top Peewee. I barely remember him in that. You know where I do Big Top Peewee?

[Casey O'Brien]

I forgot he was in that.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, you remember? You know what I was really, I really noticed him is he was in a Madonna video. He was in the video for La Isla Bonita. I don't know if you remember that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Song.

[Millie de Cherico]

But I do, I actually do remember him from that video because I was obsessed with Madonna as a kid, and I, I watched her videos constantly on mtv, and so I, I, I would notice everything about every video, and.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would notice that's where the seed was planted. The Benicio seed.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. But I am so on board for Benicio del Toro, like, always. Always.

[Casey O'Brien]

He was like my, the father figure in this movie to me, the viewer.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was like, take care of me, please. Yeah, things are going badly.

[Millie de Cherico]

I love him too much, I think. I feel actually, it's a, it's funny because I. He's like one of my celebrity crushes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

And I have a friend of mine who can photoshopped the poster of that movie, Romancing the Stone with and put me and Benicio del Toro's faces on it. And it used to be my screensaver at tcm. And, like, people would walk by and be like, is that romantic? Wait, is that. Are you and Benicio del Toro in Romancing the Stone? I was like, yeah, it's funny.

[Casey O'Brien]

In it, you need to put together, like, a coffee table book of all the bad photoshops of your face on stuff or a zine of some kind.

[Millie de Cherico]

100%. I love it. There's also. There's also one my friend Jess did of me and my dog Sophie on the COVID as the COVID of True Romance, which I love as well.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's. Yeah, I feel like Benicio is one of those actors. There's a few actors like this where I feel like, like, currently they could still play every character they've ever played. Like, I feel like you could cast present day Benicio in Usual Suspects in the same character as the same character.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, absolutely. And if present day Benicio del Toro was single and wanted a wife, I would definitely be his wife.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Cherico]

I would run.

[Casey O'Brien]

You would cast him in the role of husband.

[Millie de Cherico]

I've loved him for so long, Casey. You don't know. I've loved him for so long. But so this is the thing about seeing him in this movie. Was I. His character feels very like, again, like one of these kind of Paul Thomas Anderson characters in some of his movies. And like, the funnier parts. Right. Always wearing, like a swishy suit, you know, is.

[Casey O'Brien]

He looks exactly like my Uncle Craig. I mean, they dress the exact same.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, he's a sensei. You know, it's like, you know, he loves, like, martial arts and spirituality, but he also loves drinking beers.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's a lot of drinking while driving, which I don't condone, but there is a lot of it. And it did look kind of fun.

[Millie de Cherico]

But, you know, these, like.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know they're little beers.

[Millie de Cherico]

Listen, drunk driving is very bad.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very bad.

[Millie de Cherico]

But these guys are old pros, and that's like, kind of the funniness of it, where it's like he just doesn't give a shit about it. But here's what I will say. I'm gonna try not to, like, go down this rabbit hole too much because I can get, like, really keyed up about it. But the whole thing about what he does for the undocumented community. Right. We're, like, going through this shit right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that. That was hard to watch.

[Millie de Cherico]

I'm extremely distressed about what's happening right now. I think everybody Knows. I think it's because I just have personal stakes. Like, my. Both my parents are immigrants. Right. You know, whether or not they're undocumented or naturalized or whatever. I think the immigration factor is what makes it hard for me to, like, process the absolutely crazy shit that's happening right now. And this is the part of the movie that was. I felt, like, the most current, 100% hard to watch in a lot of places, but also what made his character and what he. He and his family do in these situations. Like, it made me, like. I feel like crying right now just talking about it. Like, I was so emotional when I was watching. It's almost like, to me, when you have to, like, live this type of life, when you're, like, constantly under surveillance and in constant fear, the idea that there are good people that are willing to help you and that are, like, actively working behind the scenes to, like, make that burden and that stress better just really makes me emotional. Like, I just was like. And, like, just the idea that in the movie, it was just, like, almost kind of like I wanted to call it like a Rube Goldberg machine, where it was like. You know what I'm saying? Like, where it was basically like, okay, cops are here. Ping, ping, ping, ping, ping. This is how you know what to do.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep.

[Millie de Cherico]

Like, they had been. They knew the drill. They knew exactly how to get out of it. They knew.

[Casey O'Brien]

No one's panicking.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's just like, I. Like, there's a lot of, like, women that work with him that are like, all right, here we go. Like, they're moving. Like, let's go. Let's go, everybody.

[Millie de Cherico]

That. That, to me, it was, like, weirdly hopeful in a way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Totally.

[Millie de Cherico]

Does that make sense? Where I was like, yeah, everything feels so chaotic and every. Nobody knows what the fuck is going on, but the idea that there is maybe something that is going to help ease the burden of this insane shit right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Made me feel good. It made me feel like, wow, there are. And I know that there are, and every fucking thing that is trying to be dismantled, whether it's like, women's health care, LGBTQ rights, like, anything, there are people behind the scenes that help. And it's almost like you don't see them because they're kind of working underground in a way. And then this movie was basically taking that concept and making it kind of. Like I said, it was like a domino effect or a Rube Goldberg thing where it's like, well, we know this is happening. So now it starts the chain of Everything. And I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I think. No, that. I mean, I think you're totally right. I think that was the most hopeful, beautiful, heartwarming part of the entire movie. And it kind of comes down to a fundamental human thing where it's like, why do we help other people? And sometimes we help other people because it's the right thing we do and we have to, we have to do it. It's just a part of us, you know, it's not all evil out there. Some of us, there are. People can help each other with no concept of getting something in return, you know, and that's like such a. That's such a basic thing, but I think it's easy to lose sight of that. And I think it was really. It was just. Yeah. A very beautiful part in this movie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And like in such a. You kind of like didn't realize it was happening because you're kind of rattled. You get so caught up in all this action of what's going on. But it's really just this basic thing of people helping other people.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. And like. And again, like, I think it. I think it just rattled me for. So obviously for several different reasons, because the topic is personal to me. The fact that my man Benicio was at the head of it being his like, calm, collected self, but also the idea that. Because I think ultimately. And we'll talk about this, I guess maybe at some point when we wrap up, but you know, this movie is definitely about sides, right. It's about like, I don't know, us versus them kind of feeling whatever side you're on. Right. And just about the ways in which either side sort of operates in their weird worlds and their isms and their beliefs, but also in their. The day to days. Right. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And yeah, you know, I, you know, this is getting a lot of criticism from conservatives because they're like, oh, it's all anti conservative, pro woke, whatever. But I felt like this was kind of making fun of like woke 100% politics.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh my God.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like it was like wokeness will not save you was kind of like what I felt like at the end of the movie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Right. I mean, this is. I mean, I wrote this down in the notes, but it's like, you know, part of what is hilarious about this movie for me personally is that there's this like ideological bureaucracy that exists with the left sometimes where they just like constantly like stepping on their own fucking toes about things. And like the, the best way in the movie that gets talked about is the Whole password thing. You know, there's this whole running. This is runner about how Leo's character, Bob, cannot figure out where Willa is because they've established that there's this, like, password or system to get through before they reveal, you know, his former group, the French 75, reveals the drop points or whatever, the info that he needs. And, like, they're so completely stuck on him knowing it that he's losing his shit. Like, he's just like, I am who I am. Tell me where my fucking daughter is. And they're like, I'm sorry, you need to answer this. And I can't.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, you should have read the manual more closely.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. Like, these revolutionaries have a manual that they're adhering to and that there's this, like, you know, person on the phone that's like, gonna prevent you from, you know, doing your revolutionary activities because of some bureaucracy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, because he can't remember a password he was supposed to remember 16 years ago.

[Millie de Cherico]

You know, he's been, like, stoned every day since. But it's like, you know, that. That is what. I'm totally in agreements with you. I was like, no, I don't think this is like a pro woke. I didn't get that at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I just think. I think at the end of the day, it's like, you know, whose side this movie is on? The one that's willing to help the most vulnerable people. Vulnerable people. And that's. That's it, you know?

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, well.

[Millie de Cherico]

Love, love, Sensei. There's like a lovely Courage.

[Casey O'Brien]

Courage, Millie. One more point to what you're talking about of being, you know, making fun of wokeness. I think it's very easy for the left, especially to kind of get worried about, like, the optics of. Is this cool? Like, I think it's very important to be kind of, like, considered cool while being politically involved and not being dorky. And I think at the end of the day, when you're helping people, it's kind of an awkward. It can be kind of like an awkward, dorky, sincere thing, and you can't really get too caught up in that. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, of course. And, like. And there's so much, like, social media allows for just the most performative of shit. Like, it's like you. There's a hundred thousand tiktoks right now going on where it's like these, like, curated, like, videos of people, like, saving animals from, you know, highways. And there's this, like, fucking music behind It. And you're just like, oh, like, aren't they so great because they rescued a baby chick from the freeway or whatever. And then it's like you're sitting here going like, that's all social media is right now is performing hell, performing good nature. And, like. And. But then you realize, hopefully, that there are so many people doing it without any notice, without any care, and, I don't know, just warms my heart and it. You know, and that's, like, this whole part of the movie really established for me was I was just like, yeah, like, some people are just good people, and they don't want credit. They don't want to. They don't feel cringy about it, and they're just doing it. And that's, like, what actually helps at the end of the day. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Okay. So kind of to start wrapping things up. We're kind of in the last. The final confrontation. Lockjaw. So Will has been hidden within this nunnery with these kind of, like, revolutionary nuns in the hills. Lockjaw and his military crew find her. And also at the same time, the Christmas adventurers find out that Lockjaw might have a biracial baby and was in interracial relationships. So they send somebody after him as well. And Pat is close on everyone's tail. He's right behind. He's close. He's looking for Willa. But I think one of the scary things about this is these people are off the map. These people, like, don't have a phone number or an address or, like, a place to find. To track people down. So I was worried while watching this, like, if Willa and Pat get separated, I don't know if they have a way of finding each other again. Did you have that fear at all?

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. I mean, there's that whole. They have a device, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But you have to be within 100ft of them to know they're there.

[Millie de Cherico]

And it doesn't seem like it works all the time.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's what. That's what Pat, Bob/Leonardo DiCaprio said.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But, yeah, this is. There's kind of a final showdown.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I don't know if I want to give away exactly the results of everything that happens here, but I don't know. What do you think?

[Millie de Cherico]

Can I talk about the DNA sample thing?

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. So Lockjaw gets Willa, and he has this, like, DNA tester computer device to find out if she is, in fact, his daughter. Go, Millie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, it's this very. It feels so macabre in A way where he's got her kind of cornered, right? And he's basically like, first of all, this psycho lockjaw, this fucking utter psycho is, is somehow carrying around a DNA test machine. And it's like this little suitcase. I mean, this shit is like, this is no like CBS DNA test kit. This is like an actual machine that has a centrifug, which I'm like, what a fucking absolute psycho that he's gone. He's carrying around this like medical grade DNA test and he's like intent on trying to figure out if he's the father of this mixed raced child. Okay? And that to me was like. I felt like I was gonna puke the entire time this sequence was happening. Because it was like he basically establishes that it's either gonna be this or that and it's either gonna be good for you or bad for you. And you don't actually know what it is until it happens. And maybe I won't reveal that. Right? But it's basically like he's like, you're either gonna be alive or dead depending on this test, depending on your DNA, which you had nothing to do with, no control over. And that I'm going to decide like you if I'm your actual father or not. I'm still deciding your fate in a weird way. And I was just like, this is hard. This is hard for me to like process mentally. And it was like, like Sean Penn's character, Lockjaw in his absolutely most desperate, frenetic, crazy, like loot like an inch away from like completely blowing his.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Arterial vein or his arm.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did like that. Like, man, you know teenagers, they can really cut you down. I love that. She was like, why is your T shirt so tight? And he's like, I'm not gay. I'm not gay. Yes. Is that what you're saying? I'm not gay. His worst set him off just with one little question.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. He's got one of those like tight shirts where his like, biceps are being hugged by the little scene or whatever. And you are like, yeah, why is that shirt so tight? And he's just like, that was so good. Yeah. And then of course his like resistance to anything that isn't like white heteronormative culture is like, kicks in. And he's just like, you. I'm straight and like, I don't like black people. What are you talking about? And you're just like, oh my God, like this guy. And again, like as over the top as this whole thing feels like I'm like, nope, there are people right now who are. This guy. This guy exists in our world right now.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely.

[Millie de Cherico]

And it's distressing.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is distressing. No, I mean, it felt very real. I mean, I feel like we see these characters on the news right now.

[Millie de Cherico]

Absolutely. And again, like, just to pull it back to sort of the authorship or the PTA part of it, you know, it's like, yeah. I mean, you know, like I said, he has children who are multiracial. Right. He has a biracial wife. Like, these are. This, to me, felt very personal.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, totally.

[Millie de Cherico]

You know, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. I mean, I think as a white man who has, you know, multiracial children, he has to start seeing the world in a way. And I'm speaking for myself as well. You have to start seeing the world in a way that you didn't. As just a white guy walking around the streets. You know, like, as a white man, you don't have to worry about certain things. But now that I have a daughter and that PTA has a multiracial daughter, you are confronted with thinking about the world in a way that you never had to. And, I mean, obviously I thought about these things in sort of a hypothetical or as an intellectual exercise or empathetic way for other people, but it is a much more visceral, real emotion when it's your children, you know? And I think that came across in the movie, and that was something that affected me. Watching the movie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. I mean, I feel like there's a lot of disconnection happening with a lot of people who have people in their family that are affected by current politics, and they just don't get it. Like, they're just, like. It doesn't make any sense to me. Like, people who are just like, I have a, you know, trans daughter, but I completely go against her life and every political moment that I have. And I'm just like, this is so fucking crazy. Like, I'm just like, we're in a weird mode. I mean, there's some people that don't care, but then there are people who do care and people who do show up for their. For their people. And I love that. And I feel like, you know, in a way, I mean, I don't know. Like, it's hard to, like, really pin down. I mean, some. Some directors are really, really autobiographical, where you could really clock things pretty accurately. Then there's others that are sort of, like, pulling from different things. And I. I haven't seen any interviews with Paul Thomas Anderson talking about the racial component of this film or like, the, you know, the idea of, like, what's happening here. I don't know if there are any. If you want to send it to us. Dear moviesactlyrightmedia.com But I don't know, it felt to me like it was a moment where I think he was like, yeah, this is affecting my family and affecting my life, and I want to talk about it, which I appreciate.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So, you know, what more can you ask for from an artist? I mean, really to, like, express something that they are personally going through.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah. And, you know, I don't know. I mean, to me, it felt like this is like, this movie felt like one of his most more personal movies. I mean, I think I like it. It's like his personal Phantom thread. Like, there are. There are movies where you're like, oh, he's talking about something real. Maybe it's not directly. Directly in your face, but it is something real. This felt like it was pretty direct. Like it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

Kind of personal. So, I don't know. I. To me, you know, I appreciated the idea that. I don't know if there is a message of it, but that black women save everyone, as they always do. Like, they're always in the position of saving people, like helping other people in the times that we live in. They vote the best. They're constantly taking care of others. And it was like this movie was saying to that effect, like, yeah, Willa, you know, has no mother right now in her life because she's in hiding or is, you know, something. And she has to take care of herself, but she also has to take care of her fucking dumbass dad who's too stoned to, you know, get a shit together. And, you know, that, to me, I think, is an interesting point to make. And even not just Teyana Taylor's character, but Regina hall, her character, the women that work at the nunnery or the nuns. So it's like. Yeah, I mean, I think that that is a message that he put in there.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely. And I think back to the more hopeful side of the movie. I think it's very in. To be very cynical about things, but I think it is actually unrealistic to think that there's no hope, because there is. And I thought that that's sort of what I took away from this movie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Well, I'm glad. I'm glad you think that there's hope. I do. In spite of the darkness that I feel. Yes. So it's getting harder, but it's.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Cherico]

You know, like, I'm trying I'm trying very hard.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know so well. I think it's like you have to look to people for hope. You can't look to it as sort of a concept. You know, it's like there are people who are doing good things out there and there are people who are doing very bad things and a lot of people who are doing bad things. But there are still people who want and do good things.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know?

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. Oh, boy. Well, Millie, this was a really great. I really loved talking about this movie with you. This was really good. And I really, this movie really kind of really affected me. And I'm back on the PTA train. I got off, but I'm back on.

[Millie de Cherico]

Can I. Can I give you a compliment? This is maybe it's a little bit of a backhanded compliment. I don't mean this backhand.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't mean this backhanded thing.

[Millie de Cherico]

I mean this earnestly. You are the first and maybe the only white guy I want to talk to about this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, well, thank you. I appreciate it.

[Millie de Cherico]

And I have had several approach me. I'll just say this, I've had several white guys in my life be like, hey, did you see one battle after another? And I'm like, yes, I did and I don't want to talk about it. And I knew we were going to do this episode. That's why I was like, because I already have a guy that I want to talk to about this.

[Casey O'Brien]

I've got a white guy. Thank you.

[Millie de Cherico]

Got a white guy. No, I. I was like, you know what, I want to save my juice to talk to Casey about it. Cuz it's like, that's the thing is that everybody wants to, you know, a movie like this comes out and everyone's like, what's up? What's up? Did you see it? What you think? What you think? And I'm like, I got no time for you. I got. I only have Casey o', Brien, so get out of here.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, that's very sweet, Millie. I appreciate it.

[Millie de Cherico]

You're welcome. I mean, honestly, it's not a backhanded compliment.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm just saying. No, I didn't, I didn't even take it as a backhanded compliment. I took it as a front handed.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, boy.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, that was great. Talk about one battle after another. And now it is time for employees Picks, which is our film recommendation based on the theme of the discussion. Millie, what's your employee pick today?

[Millie de Cherico]

Okay, so my employee pick for this week is also about revolution. Basically, I would Say, maybe in a sci fi alternate reality dystopia world, I guess. And it is a movie called Born in Flames from 1983, directed by Lizzie Borden, who I feel like is now getting the Criterion Collection treatment. I feel like there's, like, two of her movies on Criterion now, Working Girls and Born in Flames. Born in Flames was like, this is a movie that I remember seeing a long time ago when I was younger. And I was like, this is one of the most punk rock movies I've ever seen. And it was cool. It had cool music. It is basically a movie about, you know, black feminism and socialist feminism. And it takes place in New York City. And it's basically like, about, you know, they use, like. They have, like, a pirate radio station and they're, you know, basically like, you know, in the streets, like, calling out men for being, you know, committing assaults. And, you know, it's kind of like, I don't know, just sort of like a. An interesting, like, it's like people call it a sci fi movie because I guess it is taking place in, like, an alternate timeline where, like, a revolution has already happened in America.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Cherico]

And so this is just kind of like what happens in the aftermath of that. And this is how these, like, radical feminists are sort of handling it. But it's. I don't know. I mean, it's a cool movie. Like I said. I feel like. I think Kathryn Bigelow, the director. Kathryn Bigelow is in it briefly. Also. Florence Kennedy, Flo Kennedy, the amazing, like, radical feminist civil rights advocate. She's in the film. You know, there's just, like, a lot of, like, cool people. Eric Boghossian is in the movie briefly. He was. I know. He's kind of got, like, a little interesting downtown New York cast. Yeah. And I don't know, it's just kind of like a really cool, interesting, revolutionary, gorilla home home filmmaking kind of type of movie. And like I said, it's all Criterion Collection now, so you guys can watch it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good.

[Millie de Cherico]

In good quality.

[Casey O'Brien]

I haven't seen it.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, it's great. I wrote about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think this is right up my alley.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yeah, I wrote about it in the underground book, I think.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I'll have to look that up because obviously I own that book.

[Millie de Cherico]

All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. I am going to recommend a MO from 2018 called Support the Girls, which takes place at, like, a Hooters knockoff restaurant, a breastaurant, if you will. And it's a really good encapsulation of what it's like Working at a restaurant, what it feels like. Working a dead end job, what it feels like. Managing a restaurant, working with shitty customers and having to work with different personalities at a restaurant. I've never worked at a restaurant, but as I mentioned when Tony Goldwyn complimented me, I have worked in food service before. But this is a great movie written and directed by Andrew Bujalski, who did a movie called Computer Chess, if you've ever seen that one. He also did Funny Ha Ha and it stars Regina Hall. She's the main character in the movie. She plays the manager of the restaurant. And it also stars an actress named Jungle Pussy who both of these people are in one battle after another. And this is Jungle Pussy's first movie and she's great in it. And yeah, it's just kind of a little slice of life comedy drama. I highly recommend it. It's really good. I really liked it when it came out. And yeah, check it out.

[Millie de Cherico]

Amazing Rick employee.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you. Thank you, fellow coworker Millie. Wow, what a great app. Thanks for going deep on One battle after another.

[Millie de Cherico]

Thank you.

[Casey O'Brien]

We did it.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, thank you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, if in the future you want film advice, if you have a regret, a grit, as we call them, a gripe or a consensual grope, email [e-mail] you can also send us a voicemail. Do so by recording it on your phone and emailing it to DearMoviesExactlyRightMedia.com Please try to keep it under 60 seconds and please record in a quiet environment and follow us on our socials. Earyourmoviesiloveyou on Instagram and Facebook.

[Millie de Cherico]

Yes. And if you want to see what we're logging watching in real time, we are on letterboxd. Our handles are Casey Lee o' Brien and Mdecherico and we would love it if you listen, listen to our podcast Dear Movies. I love you on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcast, please rate and review the show. It really helps us and follow our socials. We need. We need you. We need to.

[Casey O'Brien]

We need you to you.

[Millie de Cherico]

We need to feel you. We need to be in your sauce and your essence and your vibe.

[Casey O'Brien]

So we need to feel you. Exactly. Next week we got a big one.

[Millie de Cherico]

Oh, boy, oh boy.

[Casey O'Brien]

This movie also could be called One Battle after another.

[Millie de Cherico]

My life could be called One battle after another. Honestly. Oh, man, I'm excited about this one. So next week we are going to watch and talk about predator from 1987. Damn predator was 1987. Huh. Guess that tracks.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, my former governor. Actually, two of my former governors are in this movie.

[Millie de Cherico]

Is Jesse Ventura in this movie?

[Casey O'Brien]

I Ain't Got Time to Bleed. Yes.

[Millie de Cherico]

Shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is a good one.

[Millie de Cherico]

That's cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's a new Predator movie coming out, so this is sort of in celebration of that. I'm excited. This is good. This will be a good palate cleanser.

[Millie de Cherico]

It will be, for sure. Casey, again, had a great time talking with you this week. Thank you for going deep.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you, Millie. All right, see you later.

[Millie de Cherico]

Goodbye. This has been an exactly right production, hosted by me, Millie de Cherico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Cherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer, and Millie Di Cherico. We love you.

[Millie de Cherico]

Goodbye.

[Bridget Armstrong]

I'm Bridget Armstrong, host of the new podcast the Curse of America's Next Top Model. I've been investigating the real story behind that iconic show.

[Millie de Cherico]

I ended up having anorexia issues, bulimia issues.

[Bridget Armstrong]

By talking to the models, the producers, and the people who profited from it all.

[Millie de Cherico]

We basically sold our souls and they got rich. If you were so rooting for her and saw her drowning, why don't you help her?

[Bridget Armstrong]

Listen to the Curse of America's Next Top model on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Casey O'Brien]

Whenever I got through the window, I tried to pick him up and his body was stiff.

[Ben Westoff]

I'm Ben Westoff, and this is the Peacemaker, a true crime podcast about a string of mysterious suicides at a Missouri university and the fraternity brother tied to them all, Brandon Grant Grosse.

[Casey O'Brien]

The lawsuit says Gross Heim was one of the last people to see each victim before their deaths.

[Ben Westoff]

Was he profoundly unlucky, or was something much darker at play? Listen to the Peacemaker podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

When you host a podcast called I said no Gifts, you hope your guests will understand the directive. Yet every week, my guests show up and spit in the face of etiquette by bringing a gift I didn't ask for. Take Cola Scola. You said no gifts, and I respect that boundary. But once you open it, I can explain and hopefully it'll make sense. I'm Bridger Weiniger. And this is my curse to bear. New episodes of I said no Gifts from the Exactly Right Network drop every Thursday. Listen to I Said no gifts on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

[Millie de Cherico]

You get your podcasts.