Showgirls (1995)! Plus, TCM’s Alicia Malone!

Summary

Podcast Summary: Dear Movies, I Love You – Episode: Showgirls (1995)! Plus, TCM’s Alicia Malone!

Release Date: July 22, 2025
Hosts: Millie Decherico and Casey O'Brien
Guest: Alicia Malone

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Introduction

In this milestone 30th-anniversary episode of Dear Movies, I Love You, hosts Millie Decherico and Casey O'Brien delve deep into the infamous 1995 cult classic Showgirls, celebrating its enduring presence in cinema culture. Joined by special guest Alicia Malone, the discussion navigates through personal film gripes, recent film diaries, and an insightful exploration of Showgirls' legacy.

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Film Gripes

Millie kicks off the episode by expressing her frustration with definitive ranked movie lists:

[16:11] Millie Decherico: "My film gripe is that I hate these greatest of all time lists. I've always hated them."

Alicia counters by highlighting the value she finds in such lists for validation and discovery:

[18:01] Alicia Malone: "I think it's nice for a publication to make a statement—these are the best—and that is like a foundation upon which I can either react and be like, 'I strongly disagree,' or 'I agree.'"

The hosts engage in a spirited debate over the relevance and impact of ranked lists in film criticism, ultimately acknowledging their differing perspectives.

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Film Diaries

The Film Diaries segment features the hosts sharing their recent cinematic experiences:

• Millie discusses "Burning" (2018), a South Korean thriller that intertwines themes of class and identity:

  [26:20] Millie Decherico: "It's a slow burn thriller about identity and missing people. It's kind of creepy and fun."

• Alicia shares her thoughts on "Mission: Impossible – The Final Reckoning", highlighting the film's intense stunts and over-the-top action:

  [30:50] Alicia Malone: "Some of these stunt set pieces that Tom Cruise goes through... like how did Tom Cruise not die making this movie?"

She also reviews "Monolith" (2022), an Australian podcast horror movie, and "Zero Effect" (1998), a quirky detective film starring Bill Pullman and Ben Stiller.

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Deep Dive: Showgirls (1995)

The heart of the episode centers on Showgirls, with an in-depth analysis of its production, reception, and cult status.

First Impressions and Initial Reception

Millie recounts her first unedited viewing experience of Showgirls on television at a friend's country-style home:

[43:38] Millie Decherico: "I watched Showgirls alone in this like country house... I was riveted."

Alicia describes the film's striking visual style and pervasive nudity:

[44:37] Alicia Malone: "The cinematography is beautiful, but the graphic nudity made my mind short circuit while watching."

Acting and Direction

The discussion shifts to Elizabeth Berkley’s "caffeinated acting style", characterized by exaggerated and erratic movements. Millie expresses initial amusement, later reconsidering it as a deliberate portrayal influenced by director Paul Verhoeven:

[51:15] Millie Decherico: "Is that her or is that something else? It feels like intentional feral behavior informed by the character's traumatic past."

Alicia cites Verhoeven’s reflections on the film’s impact on Berkley’s career:

[52:48] Alicia Malone: "If somebody has to be blamed, it should be me, because I thought that it was interesting to portray somebody like that."

Themes and Cultural Impact

Both hosts explore the film's exploration of class warfare and the spectacle of Las Vegas as an entertainment hub. They compare Showgirls to classics like "All About Eve", emphasizing its place in the tradition of Hollywood tales about ambition and rivalry.

[73:29] Millie Decherico: "It's the tale of the old school star being usurped by the new—like All About Eve."

Cult Status and Reappraisal

Millie argues that Showgirls epitomizes the last great cult exploitation film, misunderstood upon release but revered over time:

[71:07] Millie Decherico: "Showgirls is a cult movie because what failed at seriousness is what camp is about—all earnestness and missed swings."

Alicia concurs, noting the film's enduring relevance and graphic content:

[77:08] Alicia Malone: "Watching it today, the graphic nudity and over-the-top acting still feel shocking."

---

Guest Segment: Alicia Malone on "Actors Fake Drinking from Coffee Mugs"

Alicia Malone introduces her unique area of expertise: the prevalence of actors faking drinking from empty coffee mugs in films and television.

[90:25] Alicia Malone: "A lot of actors fake drinking—straw dangling, empty cups—and it always pulls me out of the movie."

She elaborates on common techniques and their impact on viewers' suspension of disbelief, citing examples from shows like "Friends" and movies like "Office Space".

[91:22] Bowen Yang: "It's so hard to do a sip and a swallow realistically. Even brilliant actors struggle with it."

The conversation highlights the frustration and disbelief fans feel when witnessing such cinematic inconsistencies.

---

Employee Picks

In their final segment, Millie and Alicia recommend their favorite films related to the episode's theme:

• Millie's Pick: "Bound" (1996) – A neo-noir thriller by the Wachowskis, praised for its storytelling and direction.

  [115:05] Millie Decherico: "Bound is a fantastic double feature with Showgirls, showcasing the Wachowskis' brilliant direction."

• Alicia's Pick: "Starship Troopers" (1997) – Another Paul Verhoeven film, appreciated for its satirical take on fascism and intense action sequences.

  [116:29] Alicia Malone: "Starship Troopers is an outrageous, violent sci-fi movie that brilliantly critiques fascism."

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Conclusion

The episode wraps up with anticipation for future discussions and a teaser for the next episode featuring "Past Lives" starring Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans, and Pedro Pascal. Hosts encourage listeners to engage via social media and share their own film gripes and recommendations.

[119:25] Millie Decherico: "We're going to do an Instagram Live sequel to this episode, so check it out if you're online."

---

Notable Quotes

• Millie on ‘Showgirls’ Impact:

  [44:29] Millie Decherico: "What we did is have this like digital painted-on bra in every scene to cover up any nudity."

• Alicia on Acting Realism:

  [90:14] Alicia Malone: "I have never seen or to see an actor do a perfect fake sip."

• Millie on Cult Movies:

  [71:07] Millie Decherico: "Cult movies take big swings and try to do things in earnestness and seriousness, but sometimes they end up too funny or over the top."

---

Final Thoughts

This episode of Dear Movies, I Love You offers a comprehensive and engaging exploration of Showgirls, enriched by personal anecdotes, critical analysis, and humorous exchanges. Whether you're a long-time fan or new to the podcast, Millie, Casey, and Alicia provide a nuanced perspective that deepens your appreciation for this controversial film and its place in cinematic history.

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Follow Dear Movies, I Love You on Instagram @dearmoviesiloveyou for more updates and episode highlights.

Transcript

[Millie Decherico]

This is exactly right.

[Casey O'Brien]

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[Alicia Malone]

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[Millie Decherico]

Higher. Not too high. Higher. Did I mention not too high? Lower. Keep going, keep going. You got this. You got this. Thrust it, thrust it, thrust it. All right, that's enough. Cut the music. Cut the music. We're done. We're done. I've seen enough. Oh God. You're moving like a tank out there, homeboy. Have you been eating brown rice and vegetables? Feels like you haven't.

[Alicia Malone]

I'm sorry. I've just been eating so many cheeseburgers. I don't like brown rice and vegetables.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, I know you had it rough in life, you're.

[Alicia Malone]

You're here different places.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. And we don't know all those places, to be honest, because it feels like you. I have a very shady character, dude. And we have our HR people looking into it. Don't worry about it. But I have to say, as a dancer, and this is just my professional opinion, it feels like you could do it higher, but not too high. You could thrust it a lot more. I mean, just gonna say that. Head on. Head on down to Versace and get you a little dress. And we'll meet back up later on so I can do your nails. What's up?

[Alicia Malone]

Well, I'll go do all that. I'll, you know, make sure my nails are done up. I'll eat some dog food and some puppy chow. But I also, you know, today is a big day on the podcast, Millie. It's not just because we're doing these new dancing sessions, which I don't know how long this will last, but we're also talking about the 1995 classic Showgirls.

[Millie Decherico]

That is. Right. We definitely are. It's actually anniversary, right?

[Alicia Malone]

30 years. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

30 years of showgirls.

[Alicia Malone]

That's crazy.

[Millie Decherico]

I think it's actually crazy as well. And this is a movie that. I mean, we're gonna get into this, obviously, in the episode that we're about to do, but, like, the persistence of this movie. What's changed? Have we changed as a culture? Has the movie changed? Do you like it more? Do you like it less? All of these things we're about to poke and prod at, and it's gonna be a great episode. I mean, to be perfectly honest with you, I feel like I'm so excited to be talking about this movie finally. Cause I've never talked about it, I think, on a podcast. I've never been able to express my. I don't know about you, but I have never been able to express these emotions. I'm going to be, like, flailing around in the water in, like, a really nice pool. Underground pool.

[Alicia Malone]

Flailing around with, like. Yeah, maybe there's like, a water feature.

[Millie Decherico]

Water feature?

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, A water feature on the pool that you're flailing under.

[Millie Decherico]

That's right.

[Alicia Malone]

Pouring champagne on your head. Yes. It's. I mean, there's so much to get to. It's unbelievable. We also have a wonderful guest on this episode. Alicia Malone is going to be on to talk later about one of her areas of expertise, and she has many. But the one she has decided to talk about with us is actors fake drinking from Coffee mugs. And that's a really great conversation. I can't wait to get into that with her.

[Millie Decherico]

That's so oddly specific, and I love it. I'm so excited for Alicia too, because she was my old colleague at tcm and she's really, really smart and we have a really good time with her.

[Alicia Malone]

That's right.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, let's go again. Ready, Casey? Five, six, seven, eight. Dear Movies, I love you, and I've.

[Alicia Malone]

Got to know if you love me too. Yes or no? Check the box below.

[Millie Decherico]

Alrighty, folks, you are listening to Dear Movies, I Love youe. This is a podcast, if you haven't figured that out already, where we basically talk about movies. It's for people who are in a relationship with movies. My name is Millie Decherico.

[Alicia Malone]

My name is Casey o', Brien, and.

[Millie Decherico]

This is gonna be a great episode. We're gonna obviously very excited to talk about this juggernaut, this cinematic juggernaut, Showgirls from 1995. And there's going to be some great, great little bits. So please go on the ride with us. Okay, Right off the bat, we got some film news. We got to talk about it. I actually texted you about this because I was like, we gotta talk about this on the podcast. So I sent you this TikTok video.

[Alicia Malone]

Uhhuh.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. Of the pop singer Charlie XCX and cinephile. Apparently, that's what I'm here to talk about. So Charlie XCX is now basically doing a film diary on her TikTok, where she logs. She has a letterboxd account and she logs the movies that she watches. And I gotta tell you, I'm okay. I know we're in an era where extremely famous people can somehow access good things. Okay. We're not like. Not all famous people or pop stars are that have, like, bad taste and, like, don't know anything cool. Right? I mean, some of them actually do. I mean, look at the Criterion Closet. Like, you're like, oh, cool. There's like, a really cool famous person in there, and they like some really esoteric cinephile classic kind of thing.

[Alicia Malone]

But can I say something about the Criterion Closet?

[Millie Decherico]

Go ahead, dude.

[Alicia Malone]

They're letting too many people in there.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, that's another film gripe. I got to film gripe. And I've been in the Criterion Closet twice, so. Whoa. Oh, yeah, baby. I've been in twice.

[Alicia Malone]

Amazing. Did they take a video of it?

[Millie Decherico]

Hell no. I'm not at that level. It's like they let me in the. Here's the Thing, guys, you can get into the closet. I mean, if you, like, know somebody that works there, you can get in the closet. I worked on Filmstruck with Criterion for many years. I was in that closet all the time. Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

Are you able to just take stuff?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, yeah. I mean, if you go. Here's the thing. If you go into the closet, the understanding is that you get to pick some things. Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

You leave with something.

[Millie Decherico]

And I personally was always trying to be very. I was not going for broke. I was trying to be very tasteful. I didn't want to take too many things because I didn't want to be. What's the famous story that my friend Brian told me? My friend Brian that works there told me that, like, because I asked him once, I was like, who was the. Who was somebody that took like the most DVDs? Like, somebody just, like, cleaned you out? And he said, I think it was Juliette Binoche. I certainly did not want to be Juliet Binoche.

[Alicia Malone]

That's so funny that it was Juliet Binoche, like the height of, like, regal Parisian actorness, like just a beauty and, like, elegance. And she was the one that took the most. It's so funny.

[Millie Decherico]

I was like, imagining she was doing like a Supermarket sweep type of shit, where she was just taking her arm and just like, clearing out shelves, which I thought was hilarious. But I was like, well, I don't. I'm not Juliette Binoche. I don't want to take. I'm going to be tasteful. And this happened both times that I was in the closet, by the way. I was very tasteful and judicious. But anyway, they'll let you in the closet if you know somebody that works there or if you're visiting, you can go and get the thing that you want. Right. Back in the day, though, it was really like a rare occurrence to go into the closet. Like, once in a while you'd be like, oh, act as far as in the Criterion Closet. And. And then now it's become. It's. It's a fandango. Anybody can get it.

[Alicia Malone]

It's a fandango.

[Millie Decherico]

You don't even have to be associated with movies in any way. You can just be like, I don't know, the host of, like, Love island and go in there.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, it's. Yeah, exactly. I. I think before, but even before, I think they let in some non film people. But it would take, like, a very high level. Like, it would be someone very important. Charli xcx. You can go in the Criterion closet.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And that's the thing is that, like, we're the age of, you know, big content. Anybody can get a Criterion Channel subscription. You can be very, very famous and not vapid and stupid. Okay. But I am. I was still surprised at her taste. Like, I was still like, oh, she watched two Robert Bresson movies. I'm like, damn.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, that's pretty. Well, her top four is incredible.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. What's her top four? I didn't.

[Alicia Malone]

Her favorite films are Abel Ferreira's the Addiction.

[Millie Decherico]

Damn.

[Alicia Malone]

Which is an amazing vampire movie he did. She has Selene and Julie go boating.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

Maps to the Stars by David Cronenberg and Phantom Thread, a pretty impressive four favorites.

[Millie Decherico]

That's my girl right there. Phantom Thread. I think she just won us over, really? In this podcast, I was already a fan. See? Yeah, me too. Not for nothing. I was just about to say not for nothing. Many years ago. I'd say it was over a decade ago. This was before Brat Summer, obviously, when she was kind of just on the scene. Perhaps she was doing. She had done that song with the Iconopop. That. I love it song.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And then there was that. What's that thing that she did with. Is it Jack Antonoff, which is called Bleachers. Is that.

[Alicia Malone]

Was she in bleachers?

[Millie Decherico]

Right? Or she. Yeah, because she did that song, Roller Coaster. She sang. Which I. That was the first. The very first Charlie XCX song I'd ever heard was Roller Coaster. And I was like, well, isn't this charming and lovely? I love this song. So, anyway, cut to. I'm at the Braves game with my friends Ben and Parks, and we're just like, goobers. We're just sitting around. It's like a Monday night. And then they announced Charlie XCX is performing after the Braves game. And we were like, oh, let's watch and watch it. It was fun. She was.

[Alicia Malone]

When was this. When this was. This was years ago.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Pretty brat summer.

[Millie Decherico]

10, 12 years ago.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, okay.

[Millie Decherico]

She was. She was playing the Braves game, like, for free.

[Alicia Malone]

She's been around forever because she was on Iggy Azalea's song Fancy. That was the first time I'd ever heard. Yeah. Which was, like, forever ago. And so it's really cool that she kind of, like, popped off last summer, like, in her early to mid-30s. I think that's cool.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, when. Hold on, I gotta find out. When that Iggy Azalea song came out. I forgot all about it.

[Alicia Malone]

I bet 2013.

[Millie Decherico]

That album came out in 2014, so you're very close. Holy I forgot about Iggy Aelia. Oh my God.

[Alicia Malone]

We. I think we as a nation did all forget about Iggy Ail.

[Millie Decherico]

I think we had to, if you know what I'm saying.

[Alicia Malone]

We had to let her go.

[Millie Decherico]

But yeah, so I am very pleasantly surprised at the taste level on Charli XCX in terms of movies. I kind of want her to come on our podcast. She would never.

[Alicia Malone]

But I'm just saying, Charlie, an open invitation extended to you. Come on and we'll talk about Abel Ferrer's the Addiction, which now I'm looking at Lily Taylor. Her look in the Addiction is not unlike Charli XCX's look with the sunglasses and the kind of ratty hair.

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[Millie Decherico]

I know that I slipped in a film gripe as we were talking about Charlie XCX's letterbox, but I actually do have a film gripe this week. And it's really like, I'm not calling out the New York Times because why would I do that? Actually, I know a lot of people who would. But this whole thing that happened with the, like, greatest films of the 21st century, okay, every fucking person on my social media was weighing in on it. You know, big, huge, important, like, list making thing. And this is my film gripe. My film gripe is, I hate these greatest of all time lists. I hate them. I've always hated them.

[Alicia Malone]

You and I are not seeing eye.

[Millie Decherico]

To eye on this. I knew it. I knew it. I knew you would love a goat list.

[Alicia Malone]

I love a list. I remember in it was either 2006 or 2007. I eagerly opened up Rolling Stone magazine to see who was listed as the best album of the year and it was Mia's Kala. And I remember going, yes, because that really mattered to me. That just. That just illustrates how much lists matter to me.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, okay, let me. Why, why, why do you. Do you want to know the information? Do you want to be told what's the greatest? Like, what?

[Alicia Malone]

I think it's nice for a publication to make a statement being like, this is. These are the best. And that is like a foundation upon which I can either react and be like, ooh, I strongly disagree with that. Or if I agree, it's like, aha, I am right. I get validation. So I get both kind of validation and argument, I guess, for lack of a better term. But yeah, you need a.

[Millie Decherico]

You need a rudder on your boat.

[Alicia Malone]

A rudder. I need a rudder.

[Millie Decherico]

See, I'm very much the opposite. I feel like I like it when. I don't know, maybe it's just my personality. You can't pin me down, baby. I'm not giving you a fucking top 100 list of anything that I like or dislike. I mean, I'll just tell you. When we were coming up with the concept of the TCM Underground book, you know, I was very adamant that it wasn't going to be a 50 greatest cult movies of all time book. That was like something I had zero interest in. I was like, I don't want to rank these shits. I didn't want people to come into my DMs for the rest of my fucking life to like debate what made the list and what didn't, you know? I just said, here are 50 movies that, that we think that we should watch that have aired on TCM Underground. And that's it. There's no ranking. There's no, like this is better than that. Cause I just think it's so, it's an, I just, I am annoyed by it because then I think the opposite of what you have just said, which is that I don't like the debating part because I'm looking at this list right now, okay, so they published it hundred to one. These are the best movies that came out in the 21st century, aka the 2000s. And already I'm looking at this thing. I mean a lot of it is stuff that I like, don't get me wrong. But then I'm like going, okay, so there are two Wes Anderson movies that are high up on the list and they're smacked together. Like why are they 21 and 22? Like, I'm just like, why would they put that like that? And now I'm sitting there going, okay, well how come this is at 22 but then, you know, phantom thread is at 25? Like that's stupid. And I'm like, this is again, like why I don't like his list. Because I get caught up in the fine details of the ranking and I start getting pissed off. And then I'm like, well, the New York Times, I hate them and I'm not paying for them anymore. See what I mean? I just feel like it's not productive, it's not healthy. It sounds like for me, maybe personally for you, it sounds like it's your, you know, it's like a party time.

[Alicia Malone]

It's like a party time. I'm having a blast. Me in the New York Times, doing the tango. I, I, I think you're right 100%. I mean I'm a, I'm a weak minded individual. I need someone to tell me what to do and how to feel and how to think. And so I enjoy there being sort of a sounding board for that out there, I guess. I think honestly how these are most useful. This happens when I'm getting into a new band. I will usually be like, for example, I'll be like Guided by Voices albums ranked because I'm like, I want to find out what people think are the best one. And then I'm like, oh, I listened to everyone. The one that everyone thought is the best B,000 or alien lanes. And now I'm like, where do I go from here? You know? And so you can kind of trickle down to like other, you know. So like, that's. I do like ranked lists for that practical purpose. But I see what you're saying where it's like, it doesn't matter. And it is. It kind of goes against the concept of art in general that it can't be ranked and numbered in that way. So.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, so let me ask you this. Now that the list has been published, are you happy with the fact that they have told you that the number one movie of the 21st century is Parasite by Bong Joon Ho?

[Alicia Malone]

Am I happy that they're telling me that they have ordered me to understand that that's the number one, the best movie of the 20th first century? But see, here's the thing. I'm like, oh, I don't think that's the best movie of the 21st century. Interesting.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

And then I look at number two, Mulholland Drive, and I'm kind of like, that is the movie I think is the best movie of the 21st century.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Alicia Malone]

So.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, okay.

[Alicia Malone]

I don't know how to feel about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, okay. So I.

[Alicia Malone]

But it's making me think, you know.

[Millie Decherico]

What I do like about this list is that it feels topical. Like all these movies feel topical in some way. It's like, okay, Parasite, Mulholland Drive, There Will Be Blood. You know, there's like moonlight, no country for Old Men. These are all big great movies that it feels like, you know, get out. There's that. That are part of like the cultural moment of the 21st century, you know. But then, you know, you go further down the list and it starts getting a little.

[Alicia Malone]

Little hairy.

[Millie Decherico]

Little hairy. A little less importante. Which I guess is the point. I mean, like the 100, 100 is.

[Alicia Malone]

Super bad and you hate this.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, the funny thing is that I actually think super bad is funny. I just. But again, should it appear on a list of the hundred greatest movies in 21st century. It's like, this is the fucking thing. I'm just like, why are we doing this to ourselves? Can't we just have a. Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

And you know, like, just to like, look at like, number 96 is Ryan Coogler's Black Panther. Right now, that movie, I do not think is better than a lot of Ryan Coogler's movies. I think Fruit, Veil Station and Sinners is better than Black Panther, but Black Panther was more of a significant cultural event than those two movies, you know, so, like, it's not even considering it a movie movie. It's considering it like a moment. You know what I mean?

[Millie Decherico]

Exactly. I mean, it's like. And then you throw in something like Agnes Varda, the Gleaners and I, which is like, okay, that movie in the. It, like notches above Black Panther is so bizarre.

[Alicia Malone]

I'm just like, yes, it's very bizarre.

[Millie Decherico]

This is why. This is the problem, I believe, with Ray King. So anyway, my point is, I guess we're talking about it, so it did its job. We're. We're chit chatting about it on film podcast.

[Alicia Malone]

We're clicking that. We're clickbaiting all over this.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, this is what they wanted from the very beginning.

[Alicia Malone]

They wanted us to do this. This.

[Millie Decherico]

But I'm just saying, for the record, my film gripe is that I hate definitive ranked lists of things that just noise.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, well, and I was trying to think of the opposite of a film gripe. And my initial pitch was film grope. But groping is not good unless you want it. Unless you're asking. And I'm going to say in this situation, I want to be. It's consensual groping. So my film grope is that I like lists. So kind of like, there we go. Two sides of the coin. They're fabulous. Well, should we move on to our film diaries?

[Millie Decherico]

Sure.

[Alicia Malone]

Lists. I'm going to. And I'm going to rank the best movies I saw the best movies of the last week in order.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I am too, only because I only saw one, so it has to be.

[Bowen Yang]

Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

Well, yes, let me know. What did you watch? Well, we got to open up the diary.

[Millie Decherico]

This thing is disgusting, frankly. So I watched. Speaking of Korean directors, I suppose I watched for the very first time. First time watched this movie from 2018. It was directed by Lee Chang Dong, and it's called Burning.

[Alicia Malone]

Wow. Now, did this movie make the top 100 movies of the.

[Millie Decherico]

I don't know.

[Alicia Malone]

I Gotta find.

[Millie Decherico]

Go look for it.

[Alicia Malone]

Okay, never mind. I can't find this, but. Oh, yeah, well. Well, like the Hollywood Reporter released 100 best or 50 best movies of the 21st century a couple years ago, and Burning was at number 13 for them.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh.

[Alicia Malone]

So just sort of interesting.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, that's what forgot you get me down this film grip hole again, dog.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, gripole.

[Millie Decherico]

The gripe hole. Maybe we should open up a barn called the gripe Hole. You don't like that idea?

[Alicia Malone]

Come on. I don't know. There's something kind of unsavory about Grapehole.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay, so back to Burning.

[Alicia Malone]

Back to burning. Excuse me. I'm sorry for that.

[Millie Decherico]

No, it's all right. So I've not seen any Lee Chang Dong movies. Although when I was going down my hole, my research hole about him, I didn't realize that, you know, he had done so much. He's, like a writer, too, and stuff. I mean, I. He seems very fascinating to me and quite honestly, seems like a dude that I would dig a lot because he is political and has, you know, makes. Makes political films. And here's the thing about so many of these Korean films that I've seen from maybe in the 21st century, like burning, like Parasite, is that they. And Squid Game, I think, is another perfect example of this. It's like they're all these kind of films about class.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And I love films about class. I feel like it's these. These films were, like, films that I really gravitated towards, especially in my 20s, because I was just very activated by issues about class and class warfare and, you know, the rich versus the not rich. I feel like it's even worse now. Like, we should be making every fucking movie about class. And maybe it should. Maybe some of these movies are actually about class. And I don't know it. But, like, this movie was so interesting because it was, like, kind of about. I mean, it kind of had this, like, talented Mr. Ripley vibe. Because Steven Yun's in the film and he. Whom I love.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Very cute. Very, very cute man. He plays this kind of. I don't know, this, like, charismatic psycho kind of guy. So the baseline story. I'm sure you've seen it. I know you did, because you logged it. But for those who haven't seen it is basically, there's a young man who is, you know, kind of like, taking care of his father's farm is kind of like a wage earner in Seoul. And then like, meets up one day with, like, an old classmate. They kind of develop a Romance. And then she goes off to Africa for, like a trip, a long trip. And he's like, taking care of her cat. And even though the cat does not appear and it's. That's a whole other side of the story. But anyway, she comes back from Africa and she's with this like Steven Yun character who's this complete opposite type of dude. He's like, drives a nice car, he is very fancy and rich and has like the polish that this other guy doesn't have. And so there's this like, weird moment where I think the talented Mr. Ripley thing comes to mind is where it's like, here's a guy who's just doing the most and has this, like, life that I want. And he's obviously wooing this woman that I am interested in and I'm gonna figure out if he's crazy or not.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And that's the movie. It's basically kind of like a slow burn thriller, identity, missing people. Like, it's kind of creepy and fun. It's long. It's a very long movie. And that's. I think the criticisms that I have read is that it's too long and too meandering. I don't think that. Yeah, no, it's a great film. I can't wait to see some of his other films, like Secret Sunshine. Yeah. Poetry.

[Alicia Malone]

Poetry is maybe the most devastating movie I've ever seen.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, shit.

[Alicia Malone]

But it's very good.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well, it's dark. On my list. On my list.

[Alicia Malone]

Very good.

[Millie Decherico]

All right.

[Alicia Malone]

Very good.

[Millie Decherico]

Turn.

[Alicia Malone]

My turn. I saw Mission Impossible. The Final Reckoning.

[Millie Decherico]

You and your Mission Impossibles.

[Alicia Malone]

Maybe I'm just a dumb idiot, you know, Maybe I'm just a stupid fat head idiot. And because I love these movies, they are totally enticing to me. And this was like. Most people say this one wasn't very good. It's a mess narratively, really. Yeah. But it's still so intoxicating. And some of these, like, stunt set pieces that Tom Cruise goes through, he's in this, like, sunken submarine at one point. That. That scene is so intense and frightening. And I'm honestly like, how did Tom Cruise not die making this movie? You know, that's like always the joke. But some of these stunts, you're like. I am actually, like shocked he isn't in the ground right now. So I had a blast. I'm kind of. It's supposed to be the last one, but it was left very open ended. It feels like they would never seal.

[Millie Decherico]

The coffin 100%, you know, that.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. So. Well, but he's, like, in his 60s. He's like the same age as my mom, and I would not want my mom doing the things that that man is doing.

[Millie Decherico]

I know I would be frightened for. Here's the thing, Kasey. I really, really, truly believe this. I mean, he. He probably has died, like, 10 times, and they just inject him with alien blood that we don't. The public doesn't know about. This is my great conspiracy theory, is that Tom Cruise is actually being kept alive with alien blood for our entertainment. No, actually, I gotta say, that is.

[Alicia Malone]

A very interesting theory, and I'm frightened of you saying it on this PO cast in fear that Scientologists will come and get us because you figured it out.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. Even though I feel like their operation has seemed to have slowed down in the past few years.

[Alicia Malone]

But the buildings they own.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

Alone are. If you are ever in LA and you go by any of these Scientology buildings, they're like castle mansions in the middle of the city. It's really weird.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. But I feel like. Because there was so much. I mean, they were like, impenetrable for a long time. Like, I remember when, you know, maybe 15 years ago when I would come to LA, people, like, don't say about Scientologists, because they will come and they will, like, ruin your life. I feel like after the Leah Remini show and just about the modern era, the Internet era that took over, it's like they kind of lost their sting a little bit.

[Alicia Malone]

Mojo. They're staying a little bit.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, I don't know. Don't.

[Alicia Malone]

No, I hear you. Don't think you're right.

[Millie Decherico]

Don't pick at me. I. I don't want to get.

[Alicia Malone]

I might have a new co. I might have a new co host next. Next week, and I might be audited.

[Millie Decherico]

I want. I want to say, for the record, I think we all love that you love the Mission Impossible movies because somebody has to. And you're like our man on the inside because I won't see him. But I like that you like them.

[Alicia Malone]

I love them. And I watched them all again in preparation for this one, and I. I just really had a fun time.

[Millie Decherico]

There you go. Well, good.

[Alicia Malone]

Anywho, on the exact opposite end of the spectrum, I watched an Australian film from 2022 called Monolith, and guess what, Millie? This is a podcast movie. It is a podcast horror movie. It is all takes place in one room with this woman making a kind of paranormal conspiracy podcast. She's like a disgraced journalist who's launching a new podcast, and she's investigating these mysterious black bricks that show up at people's houses. And it was scary.

[Millie Decherico]

Wow.

[Alicia Malone]

I thought it was good.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

And, you know, it's one of those movies where, like, kind of it's what all you see is one woman. The whole. You. She talks to a lot of people for her podcast, but it was very effective. And it didn't feel, like, claustrophobic or like, it didn't feel like it was relying on any sort of gimmick, you know? So it's called Monolith.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

And it was creepy and interesting, and I was. It was a great. Just great podcast or representation in film.

[Millie Decherico]

So there we go. Hey, that's great. I kind of want to watch this. This looks good.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, it was good. Really liked it. And then the last movie I watched was 1998's zero effect with Bill Pullman and Ben Stiller. You ever seen this movie? No.

[Millie Decherico]

And I kept. I kept reading about it when it came out, and I thought I should, and then I never got around to it.

[Alicia Malone]

It's cute. It's fine. Bill Pullman plays, like, the most private eye, the most private detective. He. He. Yeah, he. It's. It's kind of a funny, quirky little gumshoe type movie, and it takes place in Portland and Ryan o' Neill's in it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

And it's kind of funny seeing Ben Stiller in a role, like, at this time where he's not, like, completely going crazy and he's not shirtless in it. Not once.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

And. But, yeah, it was fine.

[Millie Decherico]

Hey, we like it when he does his draft. Like, when. Permanent Midnight. Like, when.

[Alicia Malone]

I've never seen Permanent Midnight, but that's on my list.

[Millie Decherico]

You'll love it. If you like a serious Ben Stiller, you'll love it.

[Alicia Malone]

Sure, I do.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. When he goes a little serious, little dark.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. But this was. I mean, Zero Effect is funny.

[Millie Decherico]

Funny.

[Alicia Malone]

It's charming.

[Millie Decherico]

I like Bill Pullman.

[Alicia Malone]

I've never seen Bill Pullman in, like, such a light role or, like a funny, silly role like that. Maybe Sleepless in Seattle, but.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, he was. He was in Singles, the Jersey movie. Singles.

[Alicia Malone]

You know what? I've never seen Singles.

[Millie Decherico]

How do. How do I even know you, though? It's like a formative text for my. My gen.

[Alicia Malone]

But, you know, it's one of those things where it's like singles. Like, in retrospect, it's like. It sort of feels like it's like the mainstream ification of grunge. Or something. I don't know. Yeah, so I haven't really been sought that one out.

[Millie Decherico]

Listen, if you want to, if you, if you're calling me a poser because I liked singles, you can, you can't. Even though Chris Cornell is in the fucking movie and you know, the Spoon man. Yeah, he. That most famous. There's a lot. Eddie Vedder and Jeff Allman from Pearl Jam were in the movie. It has like good bones, like in terms of, I mean, Cameron Crowe, you know, the people in it, like Campbell Scott, Kara Sedgwick, like, you know. Yes, it is somewhat of a commercial spotlight on this very base, you know, like serious musical genre that hates posers very strongly. But it could be worse. Could be Empire Records is all I'm saying.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes, it could be worse. Yes, it could be Empire. It's a movie I don't like. I don't like that movie.

[Millie Decherico]

But he's. But anyway, to the original point, Bill Pullman is in that movie briefly. He does, he has a cameo and he plays this like plastic surgeon that's about to give Bridget Fonda a breast augmentation.

[Alicia Malone]

I see.

[Millie Decherico]

And it's great. He's great in it. He's so.

[Alicia Malone]

Bill Pullman. He's always kind of doing this. Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

He'S like singles.

[Alicia Malone]

Well, he's always kind of doing that sort of stuff.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Now you got to watch Tickles because that's like his entire. He's like, he's got like 10 lines and they're all like that.

[Alicia Malone]

Okay, Millie, we gotta move on. We got so much show left and we, we, we gotta keep moving here. So let's close it up.

[Millie Decherico]

Closed.

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[Alicia Malone]

It's time for our main discussion. All right, all right, all right, she says fine. Showgirls 1995 Showgirls. Where do we begin with a monumental text like this?

[Millie Decherico]

What was the. What was the first time you saw this movie, just out of curiosity?

[Alicia Malone]

Well, the first time I saw this movie was on TV. And this is a very famous TV edit because it was on VH1 in like the 2000s and maybe the late 90s, which is crazy to think about because there's so much. I mean, there's almost no scenes in this movie where everyone's not naked, you know, and so that what they did is they like had this like painted on. Have you seen the TV edit?

[Millie Decherico]

Of course I have.

[Alicia Malone]

Okay, okay, okay. So they have this like digital painted on bra basically in every scene to like cover up any nudity whatsoever. And I think some scenes were cut entirely like. I have a feeling the. The pool scene may have been cut entirely from the TV edit or part. Most of it was. But it had this like ludicrous digital bra floating around the TV screen. And that was how I first watched this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah. I. My first time was also on tv. However it was on like HBO or Showtime or something. And it was at. I watched it at my friend Liz Morris's house, but who was one of my best friends in high school. She is no longer with us. RIP Liz. But we for some reason, I swear it was this thing where like it was on tv. It was in the middle of the day. Her mother's house was like super countryfied. So like she had like a bluebell pattern couch. And it was. There was like like.

[Alicia Malone]

You are painting such a beautiful picture.

[Millie Decherico]

I know. There was like.

[Alicia Malone]

Of watching show.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh my God. It was like watching this movie. I was like in a cracker barrel live esque living room in the deep south during the day. And then Showgirls comes on and my friend Liz, I feel like she went and did like she was like doing laundry or this was at her parents house. And I sat there and watched Showgirls alone in this like country house. And. And it was unedited and it was riveting. Like I was riveted and it was like I was like 90 because this movie came out in 95. So it was probably like 96 when this movie was on base or pay cable. So I would have been. I was like 17 or something.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And I mean I was riveted. I don't know about you. How did you feel when you first saw it?

[Alicia Malone]

Well, I feel like so this movie, watching it again last night, I was like, this movie looks incredible. Yes. Like the way it was shot. The cinematography I think is beautiful and it sort of commands your attention. Like it feel, it makes you. Like it brings you to a place where you're like this is cinema, this is important. And so I felt like with that kind of visualization of the movie with so much nudity and like graphic nudity and like Elizabeth Berkeley is so naked in this movie. You really don't see movies like this where the main character is like so naked. Oh, I know. In the whole movie. And so it really. Those two worlds coming together of like this looking so good and it also having like graphic nudity, it really just kind of like makes Your mind short circuit while you're watching it. So that was sort of my experience, like, watching it for the first time.

[Millie Decherico]

I think that's kind of. That's exactly how I felt. I felt short circuited by it. It was just such a spectacle. Let me ask you this question.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Did you have any affiliation with the children's television show Saved by the Bell?

[Alicia Malone]

I watched Saved by the Bell all the time.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

I could sing the theme song right now.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

But I won't.

[Millie Decherico]

Thank you.

[Alicia Malone]

But I could just imagine me doing it.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay.

[Alicia Malone]

When I wake up in the morning and my alarm is out of order and I think I never make it on time. By the time I get my books and I give myself a look I'm in the corner just in time to see the bucks drive by. It's all right because I'm saved by the bill. I don't see. I don't even really remember being like, oh, my God, that's Jesse.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

You know in Showgirls.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

It was. I think Showgirls as, like, an idea was. So. I don't remember being introduced to that concept that, like, someone from Saved by the Bell was in this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. See that. Okay, so full disclosure. You know, as I was, like, going back and rewatching this movie, going back and watching special features on the expanded Blu Ray disc, going through all of the, you know, writing and ephemera and everything about this movie, I watched, I rewatched this documentary that was made in actually 2019. I actually can't believe it was that long ago by the director, Jeffrey McHale, and it's called you Don't Know Me. N O M. I Know Me.

[Alicia Malone]

Malone is the main character played by Elizabeth Berkley.

[Millie Decherico]

Correct. And it was basically, to me, one of the best examinations of this film that has ever been done. Like, it basically was like a bunch of film critics and cultural critics and scholars coming together to talk about this movie, essentially, and all of the different nuances of it, the takes, the way that it was presented when it first arrived here in our brains, and then the kind of lasting effect and the different reads. I mean, the different readings of it from, like, queer. Queer audiences or, you know, female audiences or whatever. It's really interesting. I really ask that you all watch it if you haven't and you want to. But the thing that was so interesting was that the very beginning of it sets up the fervor of everything when this movie came out. Like, I mean, it was just like clip upon clip of, like, people, you know, it was like Siskel and Ebird and you know, all of these people that were just, like, shitting on it, like, so hard and all of the bad reviews and all of the, like, you know, people on Good Morning America talking about how it's the worst movie of all time, the Razzie Awards. And then there was, like, really talking about Saved by the Bell and how everybody was so scandalized that she had been on Saved by the Bell and was Jessie Spado. And isn't ironic because Jessie Spado was like this feminist and now she's this, this and that. And I have to say, like, as a person who watched Stay by the Bell as a child and was very well acquainted with Jessie Spano as a character, I'm with you. It wasn't like this whole, like, I cannot fucking believe, like, what happened. Like, she's obviously made a pact with the devil or something. Like, she, like. I guess for me, I had become so used to these, like, these stories of, like. I mean, if you watch movies, if you're a movie fan, it's like, this isn't the first time that a child actor has gone dark or has done, like, fucked up shit. I mean, in the documentary they talk about Patty Duke when she was in Valley of the Dolls, and about how, like, that was so scandalous because everybody loved Patty Duke. And then all of a sudden she's like, strung out on pills in a movie.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, so it's like, to me, it wasn't like a shock that it was Jessie Spano, quote unquote. That was like, now Nomi Malone. I think it was more about just the. Just the spectacle of the movie, like, head to toe.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know what I mean?

[Alicia Malone]

Well, it's not just that she's in this movie coming off like a. Essentially a children's TV show.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

It's also the movie itself. And not just the content of the movie, but, I mean, we can get into this now or we can get into it later, but like, her movement, her acting and her movements in the movie are so unusual. I don't know even if. No, that's the right term, but they're so dramatic and kind of violent and bizarre. Like, even the way she's like. Like the way she's, like, kind of introduced when she gets to Vegas, she's, like, throwing her body around this, like, looking for her suitcase. She, like, flings herself into traffic. She's eating French fries and, like, throwing the ketchup all over the place. Like, it's like. Like her movements are really Broad and big. There's just a lot going on on top of the fact that it's sort of like wild that she went from, like a child's TV show to this type of movie. Do you know what I mean?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. So, like, we should talk about the acting.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Because that has been a huge point of discussion over the years. Is this sort of like extra caffeinated?

[Alicia Malone]

Caffeinated. That's a great way of saying real.

[Millie Decherico]

Real herky jerky acting style of Elizabeth Berkeley, Right?

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

And when I first saw this movie, I did think it was hilarious. Like, I was like, what is this?

[Alicia Malone]

She was like a caged animal.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

I mean, really, not just in the dancing sequences, but just as a person out in the world.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And part of me, like, I've gone back and forth about this for many years because I was like, is that her or is that something else? Isn't. Is that.

[Alicia Malone]

Can I read you a quote?

[Millie Decherico]

Yes, please.

[Alicia Malone]

That sheds light on this. Sure. So Paul Verhoeven was interviewed this year in Far Out Magazine and he said. He said about the movie, it made my life more difficult, but not to the degree it did. Elizabeth's Hollywood turned their backs on her. If somebody has to be blamed, it should be me, because I thought that it was interesting to portray somebody like that. I asked Elizabeth to do all that, to be abrupt and to act in that way, but people have been attacking her about it ever since. I had hoped the end of the movie would explain why she acted that way when it was revealed she has convictions linked with drugs. But that too turned out to be a big mistake. So Paul Verhoeven is the one who's like, I want is pushing her to do this, and it's his vision. And I feel like she was the one who got blamed for this kind of caffeinated style of acting.

[Millie Decherico]

Of course. And of course that that would happen. Right. Because nobody had seen her really be on say by the Bell. And, like, if we go back, she wasn't like that on say by the Bell. I mean, she had the whole, like. Speaking of caffeinated.

[Alicia Malone]

I'm so excited. I'm so excited.

[Millie Decherico]

I'm scared. Yes. And that had had its own. She was already an icon for that in that way. But it, to me, you know, there wasn't any suggestion that this was, like, her, you know, standard operating procedure as an actress, that she was going to be this nutty, you know?

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I figured it was probably informed by. Yeah. The direction of the director, but also the character in that. Now Listen, I want to go on record and say this. Like, there. There's an opportunity here to be like, super duper, you know, like using my film master master's degree to, you know, really pick apart the, like, delicate nuances and psychology of a character or a film. Okay, I love doing that a little bit, but I don't want to, like, also pretend that this movie is like Beowulf or something. You have to like, you know, you.

[Alicia Malone]

Can'T look at it and be like, actually, it's not ridiculous at all.

[Millie Decherico]

Right.

[Alicia Malone]

Because it is very ridiculous.

[Millie Decherico]

And that's. Yeah, exactly. And that's the pleasure of the movie, is that it's ridiculous. But then there's also times when you can see it in a more serious way and have like an actual take. And it's not this, like, Mystery Science Theater 3000 take. It's like the, you know, something that you actually enjoy and think is good. And I do think that, like, there's pleasure in her acting like that for me. And I think Verhoeven, obviously would know the best. He's right. I think once you understand her character arc, she is like a feral animal. She's, like, skittish. And because she has had so much trauma, she's like, living on her own, like, like trying to, you know, make her her way in this extremely seedy business. And she's had drug problems, she's had pro. You know, she was at one point a sex worker. She had been sexually abused and everything. So it's like, do you blame her for being this way? No, I mean, her. The character is supposed to be fragile and mistrusting and skittish and mysterious. And I think that's exactly what she did in the movie.

[Alicia Malone]

I think also, like, I don't. I don't think it. I don't think, like, Paul. It's not one of those things where it's like, shame on you, Paul Verhoeven, for trying to do something like that. I think he had a good idea and an interesting idea. And I think a lot of times, especially American viewers have one single concept of how good acting is supposed to be or how acting is supposed to be. And especially today in, like, modern cinema, it's like, everything needs to be so grounded and muted. Yeah, if the more grounded, the more muted, the more real and therefore the more good it is. But I feel like there is a place in movies, and you see it in a lot of David lynch movies too, where, like, heightened, theatrical, over the top acting is also good acting, right? It is Good performance. It's like a tool in the toolbox of moviemaking. To have somebody perform in a certain way that creates a certain emotion. And her performance in this creates a certain feel. You're like, she is out of control. And this makes me feel a certain way. And so I like the acting in this. I think it's like a good, artistic, you know, leap to make in this movie.

[Millie Decherico]

And sometimes it works, and sometimes the character and the storyline warrants it. And I feel like if you're doing a movie about Vegas, if you're doing a movie about, like, nude, you know, Vegas showgirls, then, yeah, you gotta get a little cokey with the acting style. So. Come on.

[Alicia Malone]

Well, and I think she gets blamed for weird script dialogue.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Like, some of that dialogue, if you read it on the page, you'd be like, what the fuck is this?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Like, this has to be part of the issue. I mean, Paul Verhoeven is Dutch, and the screenwriter Joe Esterhaus is Hungarian. There does seem to be something lost a little bit in translations with these. With this dialogue.

[Millie Decherico]

You know, I was wondering. We've talked a lot about this movie already, but I was like, in the event that somebody has never seen Showgirls.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

Would you do a synopsis?

[Alicia Malone]

Should I do a synopsis? Sure. Okay. So our main character, Nomi Malone, played by Elizabeth Berkeley. She is a troubled but talented drifter who comes to Vegas with dreams of becoming a showgirl. She works as an exotic dancer for a time, but she soon catches the eye of Crystal Connors, played by Gina Gershon, who is the lead showgirl in the big production Goddess. Nomi auditions and gets a part in the show, but Nomi has eyes for the top spot that Crystal holds, and she'll do whatever it takes to get it. And that does include wildly fucking Kyle MacLachlan in a pool with a water feature. So on top of all that, she must also navigate the psychosexual games that Crystal Connors is playing and attempted sex trafficking gone wrong by show management and outrunning her troubled past. So there's a lot happening all at once.

[Millie Decherico]

Lot of meat on that bone.

[Alicia Malone]

Lot of meat on that bone.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. God bless. I. I knew this was gonna be a big undertaking. I actually told you I was really nervous. I was like, oh, my God, am I gonna be able to communicate all of the feelings that I've had?

[Alicia Malone]

Millie held her hand up to the camera, shaking.

[Millie Decherico]

I had to, like, hold it steady with my other hand. Yeah. This movie is 30 years old, and Isn't that cool?

[Alicia Malone]

Isn't that wild? Wild? It feels just as relevant today. When you see it as a young person, you're like, whoa, there's a lot of sex. And, like. Like, truly the most nudity BPM in, like, a major release.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Maybe ever.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

You know, and then it's also, like, goofy acting, and you're kind of holding on to those two things. And then as you get older, you're like, there's actually a lot more here.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And I. You know, it looks great. They look great. Like, Elizabeth Berkley and Gina Gershon look amazing naked. Sorry. They just do. And they're beautiful. And everybody in the film is beautiful. And they do. The way that they move and the dancing especially is all just, like. To me, it's very titillating. Like, I'm like, that's mission accomplished. That's what they did. And, you know, there is ridiculousness in the film and there is camp in this film. I mean, obviously, just huge amounts. But at the same time, it's a sexy movie. It's actually a sexy movie to me.

[Alicia Malone]

Well, like, Gina Gershon and Elizabeth Berkley, when they come out as the goddess, you're like, oh, my. Like, they're beautiful.

[Millie Decherico]

They're beautiful. I was like, I mean, listen, we talked about the thrusted part. Sorry. If I could. If I had the opportunity to have that little snatched tiny waist covered in sweat, you know, in those, like, little hot pants that she's wearing in that scene, I'm like, damn, I would love that for myself.

[Alicia Malone]

Can I get into maybe some, like, more granular plot things?

[Millie Decherico]

Of course.

[Alicia Malone]

Who is Crystal Connors? Like, what's someone we could compare her to in the real world? Because in the world of this movie, this movie also kind of, like, purports that, like, Vegas is more of a center of entertainment than I think it is now or maybe ever was. Because in the movie, she's kind of like. They're like, who can replace her with Janet Jackson? Paula Abdul? And I'm like, is she as famous as those people in the world of this movie? You know, it's kind of hard, but she feels like she is.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, that. I think that's a little. That's a little magical. Thinking that you have to do is to just imagine that Crystal Connors is like, Paul Abdul or, like, Janet Jackson. I will say that I think that Vegas was extremely important for a very, very long time. I mean, I don't know. Did you watch the Last Showgirl with your Girl, Pam Anderson. We gotta watch that.

[Alicia Malone]

I didn't.

[Millie Decherico]

What the hell is wrong with you?

[Alicia Malone]

I mean, I know it's a tradition.

[Millie Decherico]

It's an industry, and, like, you know, I. People take it very seriously, and I feel like it. But it does seem a little old school now. I mean, you still have people like Bruno Mars and, like, you know, you have the Blue Man Group and, like, there's still people who are making, you know, Vegas residency entertainment and are like, people will go and see, like, people will. People went to see the Magic Mike shows and, like, yeah, people love it when, like, I don't know, Christina Aguilera has her Vegas residency. I mean, it's like, it still makes a ton of money. So there is something. It does have a foothold, I just don't think in the modern era. I feel it certainly wasn't like Ocean's Eleven. You know what I mean? It's a different universe.

[Alicia Malone]

It just. I feel like that's one thing where I was, like, having kind of not a hard time grasping, but I'm kind of like, it's kind of purporting that, like, this is sort of the center of entertainment in the usa. A little bit. There's a little bit of that.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes. I mean, I. Here's the thing. If you watch the you don't know me documentary, and I think this has been written about before, apparently Gina Grishon based the character of Crystal Connors on drag queens. Like, she was basically acting like a drag queen.

[Alicia Malone]

I see that.

[Millie Decherico]

I do too. And so there is this, like, over the top campness to her performance in. I mean, she's supposed to be from Texas. I love that part. That part. The whole, like, Texas part with her, like, cowboy hats and calling her darling and stuff, to me, just really, really sets it up for me. Like, I'm like, I'm. I personally big fan of Crystal Connors. Big fan. You know, this is the part that I feel like, as much as people feel like it's the camp part, I actually think it's the anchor of the film is her relationship with Crystal. Because it kind of centers the movie.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

In this, like, grand tradition of Hollywood tales, like All About Eve or, you know, like, Valley of the Dolls or anything. This is what makes this movie actual movie in my mind, is the rapport between Crystal and Naomi and how it's this adversarial thing. But then there's like, kind of like a genuine romance. Actually, not kind of there's a romance. I mean, whether or not it there actually in A lesbian relationship or whatever. But there's still a romance there. And it's. Yes, it's. It. It's the tale of, you know, the old school star being usurped by the new Jack, the new person in town. And I don't know if it's because I'm older now and I'm seeing people coming down the staircase, if you know what I'm saying. Like, being as old as I am, you're behind.

[Alicia Malone]

You're in front of them, and they're behind you on the staircase.

[Millie Decherico]

You. You. Maybe it's you. You're my.

[Alicia Malone]

I'm behind you on the staircase. Look out for the little beads on the floor, Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, you're the one pushing me down and then coming to visit me in the hospital, being like, can I do your nails?

[Alicia Malone]

I don't know what happened. She just slipped. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. But it is kind of interesting that I almost feel like just comparing this to a movie. Like All About Eve. Like you said, you almost are more sympathetic to Nomi Malone in Showgirls than you are Eve Harrington. Harrington in All About Eve?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. No, we all hate Eve Harrington. She sucks.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes. But I do like the. The kiss at the end where Crystal is like, how about a. I don't know what she says. She's like, how about a kiss for mama? Or something like that? By the way, I was, like. I was, like, kind of touched by how affectionate and sweet that kiss.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God.

[Alicia Malone]

Was at the end. I mean, it's hot, too, but it's also like. Like, you're like, wow, these women really understand each other. I'm sure they're really.

[Millie Decherico]

They're really connecting on a spiritual level. No, no, it's. It to me is. It was almost like the whole game recognized game. Like confirmation wrapped in a. Like, thank you for hurting me.

[Alicia Malone]

Thank you for breaking my knee.

[Millie Decherico]

Thank you for poisoning me with an omelet. It's that moment, that fam thread moment of like, I'm cool with this. Like, I'm cool with what happened, and you got what you wanted, and I kind of got what I wanted, and now we're just better people for it.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

You know what I mean? And it's hot. I mean, it's hot. Come on. It's hot.

[Alicia Malone]

But come on, grow up.

[Millie Decherico]

Can I ask you a question? Have you.

[Alicia Malone]

Please? Please.

[Millie Decherico]

So there's like the whole scene of them at Spago talking about the dog food.

[Alicia Malone]

I've eaten dog food. Puppy Chow.

[Millie Decherico]

I was gonna ask you, have you Eaten dog food.

[Alicia Malone]

I've never eaten dog food. No, it smells awful.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, you know, and I gotta tell you again, sorry, I'm going down this rabbit hole of analyses. People like to make fun of that scene because they're like, that scene is so stupid. They're all just. They're, like, looking at each other's nails and they're talking about eating dog food. What the fuck is this about? And I'm like, I don't know. I think it's a way for them to kind of tell each other that we kind of have the same background. Like.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, Domi's like, I ate dog food because I was poor and fucked up and had to. Crystal Connors is like, I ate dog food because I was poor and fucked up and had to. Looks like we're not so different after all. Even though my nails are better than yours. Well, I'm like, also, too, like, the documentary points out, one of the film scholars that is in the documentary, and I can't remember who it is, talks about how in that scene, the scenario. The visual. The scene, the visual component of it flips and it breaks the 180 rule. Where. Yeah, where basically at some point halfway through, the Gina Gershon character, Crystal Connors is flipped so she's on the other side. And how maybe that was by design. Like, about how now it's almost like they went through the looking glass kind of thing. Where it was like, oh, well, now we are the same. Like, we are through a portal where you can be me, you know, And I'm like, yo, this movie is deep. Fuck what you said about it, Siskel and Ebert.

[Alicia Malone]

It's deep. For those who don't know the 180 rule. That's like a rule of filming a scene that you need to follow so you won't be confused about the, like, geometry of where everybody is standing. So basically, you can't just be, like, flip flopping the camera all over the place. You have to, like, stay on one side of the actors so that you kind of know what's going on. That's essentially what it is.

[Millie Decherico]

Absolutely. Thank you, Casey, for the scripture that we needed to get through this episode. What else can you say about this movie, Casey? Man, I personally, I want to talk about it in terms of being a cult movie, obviously, because that's my bread and butter, if you will.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

I actually think this is one of the last great cult movies ever made.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. Well, I think inherently a cult movie needs to not be successful.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

Would you say that's upon its initial release.

[Millie Decherico]

I would agree.

[Alicia Malone]

And this was not successful on its release, but I will note that since its video release, Showgirls has gone on to become one of MGM's top 20 all time bestsellers.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I totally.

[Alicia Malone]

So that that is where the cult grew.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I mean, I think like I've been asked to define a cult movie a hundred million times in my life and I don't really know what else to say other than it does feel like cult. An actual tried and true cult movie is on some level misunderstood upon its initial.

[Alicia Malone]

Misunderstood is.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. But then is reappraised and re examined after. So there has to be a period of time.

[Alicia Malone]

There's to be a fallow period.

[Millie Decherico]

Has to be a fallow period where people upon further examination are like, oh, this is whatever it is like a masterpiece. This is like a flawed masterpiece. But you know, to me there's no denying that it's a. That it's a cult movie simply because it's like what failed seriousness. That's what camp really is kind of about like a Susan Sontag definition of it being like it's a serious film. It took a big swing but then missed. Right. And that's kind of inherently what cult movies are too is people that take big swings and try to do things in all earnestness and seriousness, but then just like it, it's too funny. It's too over the top, it's too unbelievable. Like whatever it is.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. And it can't really be appreciated at face value. I can see why that happened when it first released anyway. Like it takes time for that to simmer and, you know, come to a boil.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I. But I do think it's one of the very last of the great cult exploitation movies. I mean now, I mean, I was actually like looking this up. I was like, I just typed into Google what are some great cult movies of the 2000s of the 21st century? Maybe we should make that list. And a lot of the stuff that was coming up was not something I was really vibing with.

[Alicia Malone]

I feel like the 21st century is sort of marked with like kind of a wink at the camera. Like it never quite. Like everything kind of has like a sense of comedy to it or like they don't want to be there. It's kind of like the Jim Halpert effect of kind of like, isn't this crazy? You know, there's kind of an awareness because people don't want to do things that are too sincere lest they be mocked, you know, and that's why Showgirls is great because it's like so intensely serious but just ridiculous. You know, people are too. Are afraid to take that big of a swing.

[Millie Decherico]

I also think the exploitation element to it as well, being that it's just so. There is a lot of salaciousness to the movie, a lot of crazy lines, a lot of crazy little stories tucked in, you know, just like the weird isms of it is. Feels very exploitation tradition to me.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, which I love.

[Alicia Malone]

I don't know if we've quite touched upon this, but like one thing I don't even. It doesn't even really have a term but her like flailing fish sex move. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Millie Decherico]

Do I.

[Alicia Malone]

She does it twice. She does it in the lap dance and in the. The pool sex grotto or whatever. In the grotto, in the water feature. And it is such an outrageous. It's like so not sexy and it's so aggressive and wild. And I think that plays a part in its campiness, you know, like it's not trying to be sexy, it's just trying to be wild and outrageous, but in a serious way, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. I mean, I think in that moment perhaps Nomi Malone was like, let me show off what I can really do. Let me just show this guy just how wild that I can be, that I can perform for him. And he'll never forget me for this. Right. Like, he'll never. I'm not likely the first woman that flopped like Fish.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

On top of him. On top of him. You think anybody's doing that for him? Maybe not.

[Alicia Malone]

That's her signature move.

[Millie Decherico]

That's my signature move. And I'll do it as many times as I can to prove that point. I mean, that that's. Yeah, it's a very over the top. Like there is. It does feel like intentionally. Like she's intentionally trying to. Both the character and the actress is essentially trying to call attention to this scenario. But yeah, I mean, I personally think that there is a lot of these moments that are tucked in that feel like old school, like down the line exploitation stuff. Yeah. Which is exciting to me as an exploitation fan. I mean, and I keep thinking like, okay, 95, you know, we're kind of moving into the late 90s and early 2000s. And yeah, I think movies started getting way more self aware and marketing specifically got way more self aware to where, you know, a lot of like companies were kind of hoping that if. If like a director made a movie that maybe wasn't going to be like a down the line hit and maybe they could try to market it as a cult movie. Like that started happening and then they started making, trying to reverse engineer cult movies, which is impossible to me because that's kind of what they were doing with Napoleon Dynamite, to be completely honest with you. I remember like the marketing for that movie being very geared towards like isn't this movie like so fucking weird, guys?

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Like I was in college when that movie came out and every they were trying to market it as it's like stoner weird college movie. And I'm just like, that's crazy. Like normally you just showed up to a stoner college movie like Eraserhead. Like it wasn't like yeah, anybody was marketing it to me as a stoner, you know what I'm saying? So it's like I feel like as the decade moves on, late 90s or 2000s, like the whole idea of a cult movie starts getting a little bit co opted by the industry. And I just feel like it's rare to see these kind of old school exploitation films where it's so over the top. Truly a cult movie. Like truly people hated it. Like people that's like one thing that documentary does really well is tell to telling you that America was not vibing with showgirls at all. And that cult had to come from that. It had to come from the idea that people didn't know what the it was.

[Alicia Malone]

So yeah, I mean it does feel like it's from a older era in a way like that, that like it is like the last of sort of a tradition like you said.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well, and I don't know, I mean I don't know what else. Like my question to you, do you think this movie is still like super controversial? Like I don't know. What is your take on like how this movie has aged over 30 years?

[Alicia Malone]

I think watching it again, I've seen this movie probably I would say four times in the last three years. So I feel like I've seen it a lot recently.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

And even again when I watched it last night, I was sort of shocked by how graphic the nudity was. Like some of the things that Elizabeth Berkeley does in this movie are still rather shocking. I felt like watching it this time. So I think in that way you just don't see a major movie like that with that much nudity and sex and sex scenes. And I think movies are getting more and more chaste.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

As the years go on. So I think it came into kind of stark contrast to how movies are coming out now. Certainly there's nudity still. You still see actors and actresses naked in movies, but it's not like it was. And so I think that, I mean, I know that's like a such a simple boneheaded answer, but that is honestly what I felt watching it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, I don't think you actually see nudity in such a high wattage kind of way anymore. Yeah, I feel like nudity feels a lot more natural and I feel like that's just because there's actually probably, I don't know, maybe beats per minute. Feels like there might be more acceptance of nudity. Certainly like male frontal, which totally. I mean, I have talked about this, about the righteous gemstones that show the righteous gemstones. I was like, listen, this is the dongasance is upon. Upon us. Obviously.

[Alicia Malone]

I was gonna say just that you and Danielle christened the dong aunts. We are in it and I'm a big fan.

[Millie Decherico]

I love it. It's a new era. But it almost feels like the nudity that appears these days feels a lot more inherent to the scene. It's like a little slip.

[Alicia Malone]

It's, it's, you know, maybe this is hyper sexualized nudity. You're totally right.

[Millie Decherico]

Like, like all the lights, you know, all of the self tanner, you know, everyone's completely shaved. Like just the whole, like it's like a very, very high watt sexuality, which I feel like that to me, the kind of maybe like them taking some things from like the porn industry type of sexuality or nudity. I feel like that's not. You don't see much of that as much anymore for sure. And so to that point, Showgirls is pretty shocking still, I would say. I'm with you on that. I don't know. This is. It's an interesting film, obviously, if you've never seen it. I don't even know what to tell you. I don't know.

[Alicia Malone]

I. You know, maybe as we wrap up this combo, do you have any favorite quotes from the movie?

[Millie Decherico]

I mean, God damn, dude.

[Alicia Malone]

I'm sorry, I just.

[Millie Decherico]

Hold on. Let me pull up my. My notes app and. And where I keep all my favorite quotes from Showgirls. I mean, this movie is sleazy as fuck, by the way. I mean this, this is like part of the joy of it.

[Alicia Malone]

Speaking of the sleaziness, one of my favorite quotes that I always think about is when Nomi is auditioning and the manager guy, I don't know who that is, he's going up to the girls and Asking them questions and stuff. And he goes up to this one dancer and he's like, you've probably taken a lot of classes. And she's like, that's right. I've taken ballet. I've been in this conservatory. And he's like, oh, okay. Well, the show's called Goddess. It's not called classes. Get out of here. I was like, what a dick. What the. Like, well, how do you know she's not good? I was like, is that bad that she took class? I don't know. That was just. That's such a funny moment.

[Millie Decherico]

It's not called classes. I. I mean, honestly, there's so many, like, dirty lines in this. I mean, it's just. It's really, really nerdy. I mean, my favorite ones are, quite honestly, the backstage. The girls backstage, like, what are you looking at? I'm just like the dumb, catty backstage, you know, fandango of the girls are like, you know, fighting with each other and being mean to each other. I don't know. It's just so. It's just so much in this film. Listen, well, we have. There's so many things maybe we should do. I don't know, we got to do, like, some kind of bonus video or something like that for our. Maybe we can do another Instagram Live and do like, a little, you know, like a spillover of, you know, topics about Showgirls that we can just like, do. Because I have so many that we haven't even talked, really, about Paul Verhoeven's career. I mean, we could talk about Kyle McLaughlin. I know that he had, like a cr. Like, crazy experience when it came out, you know, So I don't know. It's just. Just too much for this.

[Alicia Malone]

There's too much. Let's do a. Let's do a. An Instagram Live and we can touch upon some of these other things. A part due of Showgirls.

[Millie Decherico]

I'd be into it.

[Alicia Malone]

Thank you, Millie, for guiding us, being our Crystal Connors lead goddess on this conversation.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, you're welcome, darlin'. So I'm very excited to introduce our guest for this week's my area of expertise because I worked with this lovely woman for a very long time at Turner Classic Movies, where I was a programmer for, I don't know, almost like 20 years or something. But we got to collaborate on a franchise called TCM Imports, which was our kind of foreign film showcase that came on kind of late at night. So it was really fun. Cause we got to collaborate, program a lot of risque. Things. I am very proud to have worked alongside her because I was always such a champion for her, being a host of the network and being a female authority of film, especially classic film. And she's so sweet and lovely and I wanna introduce her. So this is Alicia Malone, everybody. Welcome. Hi.

[Bowen Yang]

And I have my cat Hayworth with me. So if you're hearing cat purse, just a bit of ASMR for you, courtesy of Hayworth. She loves being on a Zoom and a podcast.

[Millie Decherico]

Have you put her on TikTok or anything yet? Are you. Are you.

[Bowen Yang]

I'm not on any social media. Oh, I'm a weirdo. Like, so. Yeah, I got offered in 2020 and honestly, best thing I did, personally, I know people love it and have used it in the right way, but it really helped me to no end.

[Millie Decherico]

That's why you look so calm and serene and youthful. I swear, like, you have a glow about you. And it's because you have no social media. That is amazing.

[Bowen Yang]

That's right. And I barely go on the Internet either, so.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Oh, God.

[Bowen Yang]

Kind of in a bubble.

[Millie Decherico]

You're living a dream of mine. So I wanted to, you know, I wanted to kind of start out by asking you, because again, you've probably answered these questions a million times. Because I feel like people, you know, people that watch TCM love you. You're one of the hosts on TCM and you've been so for a long time. I mean, you started with Filmstruck back in the day, right? Isn't that kind of how you came into the channel?

[Bowen Yang]

That's how I came into the TCM world, yeah. That was 2016. RIP Filmstruck. Those were the good old days, weren't they? I had the best time for those two years we worked on Filmstruck. It was a dream.

[Millie Decherico]

It was an absolute dream. It's so funny because I feel like I sound like one of these people that can not forget their high school experience or something, where I'm like, those are the amazing days. I'll never get over it. Even though it didn't last, I guess, technically that long, but it was so fun to work on from a programming perspective. But also I know that so many people like yourself and people who were producing pieces for it were getting to do, like, their best work. It was kind of just like unfettered creativity. Right?

[Bowen Yang]

It really was. I mean, where do you get to do these super niche videos unless you work for Criterion? But getting to work with Criterion, I mean, I got to do a closet video and those things now they have Ben Affleck on them. We never get to do one now, but I got to go in there and do a closet video back in 2016 or something. It was a dream. It feels like a dream. And then I always wanted to work on TCM. So finally, in 2018, I didn't audition, and then I came on board as a host.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, well. And, you know, I think you're perfect for the channel because you are really, really knowledgeable about films. And, I mean, I'm gonna, you know, ask you some questions about your books and your new book that just came out fairly recently. But I kind of wanted to go backwards and, like, kind of ask you. Obviously, you grew up in Australia. Like, how. How did you come into film? Was it something that, like, your family introduced you to, or were you kind of on your own? How did. How did you start liking movies, period? I guess.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah. I think we all have a gatekeeper or someone that introduces us to movies. And that, for me, was my dad, who is still a big film buff. And I have memories of him. You know, I've talked about this, but of him dragging me out of bed late at night to watch Rear Window when I was way too young to watch Rear Window because he wanted to introduce me to Alfred Hitchcock. And also, growing up in Australia, I feel like we had a whole mix of content on television and in our movie theaters. It wasn't just Hollywood films. A lot of content from the uk, British films, which is why I maintain that Australian actors are so good at doing both British accents and American accents, because we grow up surrounded by hearing them on television. And movies and at the theaters were full of foreign films. So growing up in Australia didn't have that distinction between this is a Hollywood film and this is a foreign film in the way I think we do here in America. It was all foreign to me, living so far away in Australia, so really just getting introduced to films as a young kid with my dad. My sisters love classic films as well. Didn't realize that I was weird in that respect until I go to our sleepover parties and everyone wanted to watch Nightmare on Elm street and I wanted to watch, like, the Big Sleep or something. People thought I was very strange. And one story I tell is, in high school, I was outraged that people hadn't seen many of the classic films that I loved. So I decided that I would start a film club where I would show screenings of movies and I would give little introductions. Funny that I do that now. I made posters. I booked the screening room. I had to convince one teacher to stay late in order to show the films. I got up in assembly, even though I was deathly afraid of public speaking, to tell everyone about, you should come to my film club. Made myself a little badge that said film Club President. I wore it on my school uniform. And not a single person came. And I had two screenings. And then they said, yeah, Alicia, you need to stop the film club. No one's coming. And I mean, yes, I didn't program it properly. I showed Citizen Kane. No one wanted to see Citizen Kane.

[Millie Decherico]

For shame, for shame, for shame.

[Bowen Yang]

But funny that I've ended up doing that exact thing now. And now people, now people come to the screenings.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, my God.

[Millie Decherico]

I just felt like a core wound enter my body.

[Alicia Malone]

My gosh. I really felt that the way you set that story up, it really felt like it was going in a dark direction and I was afraid for young Alicia there. But. Oh, my. My gosh. Alicia, do you want to explain what your area of expertise is?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, when I heard about that, my area of expertise, I thought, well, I could go several directions. Yeah, I've written books about female directors of that new book about foreign films. I could talk about classic films. When people think about my film, when I think about my film knowledge, I say, I know more than most but less than some. So I'm not an encyclopedia, but I definitely watched a broad range of films throughout my life. And one thing that I thought of immediately, which I wouldn't necessarily call myself an expert on, but more just it's my personal pet peeve, and that is empty cups in movies, empty coffee cups, it kills me.

[Alicia Malone]

Now, specifically, do you think, is it more egregious in a coffee mug or a takeaway coffee cup or both? Is it equally?

[Bowen Yang]

Equally? I mean, I think the takeaway coffee cup with the lid allows the actor to feel like they can flail their arms around a little bit more, which makes it very unrealistic. But also it is painful when you can see into the coffee mug that someone's holding and you can see that it's empty. And it's just something I don't understand. Why.

[Alicia Malone]

Why does it happen and it happens the highest of the highest caliber films. I was. I said this in an email to you, but I just saw the brutalist guy, Pearce is waving around a little coffee cup willy nilly and fake drinking from it. It's just incredible.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, fake drinking. You can tell the fake drinking.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. So that was kind of my. I guess my second question then for you is, have you seen. Are There actors that do fake drinking better than others or is it just like a uniform? Y' all suck. Like it's never gonna look good.

[Bowen Yang]

I have never seen or to see an actor do a perfect fake sip. I don't know why it's so hard to do a sip and a swallow. But even like you were saying, Guy Pearce, Oscar nominee, brilliant Australian actor, cannot do a proper sip. That is realistic. And it's just, I think, especially maddening because you think, why can't there be some liquid? Like why is there not Coca Cola if you don't want to drink coffee? Why is there not least water in the takeaway coffee cup? Can we give some weight to the cup?

[Alicia Malone]

It's interesting because I've heard a lot of actors when they're talking, like doing a. Like they're talking into a phone, you know, it'd be very easy to just fake that. But I know a lot of actors ask for someone to actually call the other line so that it looks more realistic. And this feels like an even smaller lift to just put some actual liquid in a coffee.

[Bowen Yang]

Exactly.

[Alicia Malone]

Are there any. Are there any actors or performances that come to mind where it just really took you out of it when you were watching the movie that they were fake drink. And it's coffee. Do you think it's mostly coffee?

[Bowen Yang]

It's mostly. Is it all liquid or any hot drink? And it happens a lot in television. I think that my theory is that's where it began in television to sort of cut corners and to make a production quickly. I mean, when you look up this subject online, which I did a Google thinking, I was the only one who had this personal pet peeve. Of course, many people, there's a whole subreddit about it. And people often talk about Gossip Girl and Friends as being two egregious examples because they have a lot of coffee in those shows, a lot of takeout cups in Gossip Girl, a lot of mugs in Friends. But when it comes to movies, the thing that I notice the most, or the. The genre, if you will, that I notice it the most is in the Hallmark Christmas movie. And those are done quickly and cheaply. But I love a Hallmark Christmas movie. I have such a soft spot for it. I love the predictable beats, I love the low stakes drama. I love the almost kiss. I love the misconception. How are they going to get back together at the end? The grand gesture. But every single Hallmark Christmas movie, they're having some kind of hot liquid. And it's usually Christmas related. There's a Christmas mug or there is a Christmas hot cocoa that they get take out from a little food truck at a Christmas festival. And it's all very nice and festive until you realize that there is nothing in the cup. And then it just destroys my holiday dreams.

[Millie Decherico]

This is the type of thing where once somebody just says it, then you just start noticing it constantly. And I remember when I. When you first. When Casey told me that you were coming on podcast and you're like, not drinking out of mugs, I was like, what? And of course, I was like, doing my own research for the episode, going like, okay, so what are my favorite times in a movie where somebody was drinking out of a coffee cup? I mean, my favorite one, I don't actually don't think that he drinks it necessarily. I mean, I could be completely wrong. Is Johnny Guitar, the movie Johnny Guitar with Sterling Hayden. And he has that, like, tiny little teacup at the bar. And, you know, and I'm always like, he's got. He's. It's so funny seeing that little dainty teacup and he's holding. And I'm like, I bet you there's nothing in that thing at all.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I do feel like classic films, they had more coffee in the cups.

[Millie Decherico]

Yes.

[Bowen Yang]

And maybe it was the pre takeout cup that this all went, you know, still change with the takeout cup. But I see many classic films where they obviously have coffee in the cup. You see it even get poured. And even films from the 90s, like your reality bites, I mean, even Twin Peaks on television, definitely coffee in those cups. And where did it go wrong?

[Millie Decherico]

Well, and I was like, to your point, this 90s point, I actually was thinking about the movie Office Space and there's that like, Gary Cole character, Bill Lumberg. Is that his name? And he's like the boss. And he comes over with his coffee and he stands in front of his cubicles and like, is just an asshole to people. And I was like. Because if you watch like the seat, one of the scenes, like, if it's clipped out on YouTube, he does a thing where he sips and then he kind of swishes his mouth. Like, almost like there is liquid in the cup. And I'm like, damn, is there liquid in there? Or is he just a really good actor? And then I decided to do a like, still a shot. Like, I was just gonna pause it and I studied it like it was the Zapruder film. I was like, I zoomed in to try to see if there was anything in the mug, and there wasn't anything in it. And I was like, he's just gotta be a good actor then. I can't even believe it.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, that is a good actor. Yeah. Because my theory was that in the 90s they had coffee in the cups, but I'm not entirely. So maybe in the early 2000s, that's when the coffee started going out of the cups and empty cups. And I'm just so curious about why. Why it happens. Is it a health and safety thing with hot liquid? Is it a thing where actors don't want to drink a volume? But then they have to eat food sometimes in scenes. Continuity, Same thing. They have to eat food. And continuity is there to make sure there's the same level of food that they started with at the scene. Why?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, yeah. They could use the spit bucket. Have you ever heard about, like, when they do scenes and then they just, like, spit it out in a bucket? Cause they have to theoretically do a bunch of different takes and they don't want to eat like that every take. So they can spit out coffee. That would be good. Can I potentially bring up another real Ziploc? Yeah. Can I bring up potentially another. Maybe this is a branch off of this big tree that we're talking about. What are your feelings on toothbrushing in movies and the toothpaste, the lack of toothpaste. I've seen that a bunch.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes, I. Now you're saying about it. I do recall saying no toothpaste. And again, why. Why not just put some toothpaste on there?

[Alicia Malone]

I wonder if that's a more vanity thing. Because you look so silly and rabid. If you're like, have the toothpaste in your mouth.

[Millie Decherico]

But it's. But doesn't it take you out when you're like somebody. But a lot of times people will pretend to put it on the brush and then what? They don't see the little glob or anything. And then they just put in the mouth. They're just like, ho, ho H. And I'm like, no, your teeth are not being cleaned. You're just. This is just your own spit. This is nothing on a brush. And I don't feel like you have good dental hygiene now. And, you know, it takes me at.

[Alicia Malone]

And you like that character less as the movie proceeds because of their bad dental.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, Like, I'm worried for you now. I know my. My branch of this big tree is also empty handbags and empty roller suitcases.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Put something in it. You can tell when someone's flinging about a handbag that is obviously empty.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

With abandon. But they should just put a couple of things in there.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. They need, like, to be putting what most people are putting in these dry bags. They need like, extra pair of shoes, makeup kit, like, two wallets, you know, like, do the whole thing. A bottle, water, like, carry it, make it look like you're caring.

[Bowen Yang]

Approach. Yeah. When you see someone pick up a roller bag with ease, you know, there's nothing inside.

[Millie Decherico]

Gosh.

[Alicia Malone]

Now back to the coffee drinking real quick. Or do you. Do you find that you can even. You're such an expert that you can even identify masking techniques of the. Because I notice one. I notice a lot is like, someone in a hurry doing a sip. And I do have a coffee mug just to demonstrate where they'll be, like, about to drink, and they'll be like, I forgot, like, something like, you know, it's kind of an interruption to there. And I feel like that is one of the techniques that I noticed where I'm like, you're not really drinking. You're, like, interrupting before you get to the drink.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

But have you noticed any others?

[Bowen Yang]

There's some blowing. Blowing on the cup.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, yeah, that. Yeah, that's a. That's a. Yeah. It does seem the tighter that they grip the cup, too, I feel like they're. The less real that there's.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, you got to do the shoulder scrunch with the blood.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes, exactly.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I've seen that. And yeah, a lot of the kind of like, almost drink, like, you come to the mouth and then you don't. And just a lot of walking and talking. When it comes to having takeout coffee cups, there's a lot of walking and gesturing while you walk, which takes me out of the movie because I know there's nothing in that cup, but they're not even sipping the cup, and they just got a delicious cup of coffee. Take a sip.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah, it seems like they throw the coffee cup a lot. Like, I feel like when it's a takeaway coffee cup, they'll be like, I'm not drinking this. And they'll throw it away. And even, like, the way it falls through the air. I'm like, there's no. There's nothing in there. There's like. It's like floating away.

[Bowen Yang]

And people have talked about the. The sound that an empty takeout coffee cup makes when you put it on a desk versus a takeout coffee cup that has drink in it. So you'll see in movies and TV shows the harried assistant coming in with the which is another bugaboogs. You can see that there's nothing in the tray. They're balancing two trays of obviously empty cups. And then they take out one cup, put it down on their boss's desk, and it just makes that hollow sound.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

So you mentioned reality bites. There is a scene in that movie that drives me absolutely bananas. To your point, I think you probably know what I'm talking about. There's a scene where Winona Ryder and Ben Stiller are out on a date or whatever, and they're sitting on the back of his. Whatever it is, his convertible and they're drinking 711 slushies or something like that. And they're like the giant like 32 ounce styrofoam cup with the straw. Or maybe it's not Styrofoam, but it's definitely a takeout cup. And then at some point they start, like, kissing, but they have these cups in their hands. And that's part of the joke of the scene is that they're trying to kiss with these cups. There's nothing in those cups. And you can hear it. It sounds so hollow. And the straw's just kind of like dangling in there with no liquid. And I'm just like, why are they drinking out of empty cups? Like, this is not. Now I don't believe they're on a date now. I don't believe they're in Texas.

[Bowen Yang]

Is anything that takes you out of the movie that would be a simple fix should be fixed. Like, even if it sounds ridiculous, it takes me out of the movie, out of the reality. And I annoy all my friends because I lean over like, there's nothing in the cup. Like, recently I just saw a Nice Indian Boy, which is such a lovely, fun romantic comedy. And Millie, you'll appreciate this. There's a lot of references to the Bollywood film DDLJ in there, which is great, great fun. But there's one really heartwarming scene with the brother and sister talking with mugs. And there's nothing in the gap. But now I don't believe it. I don't believe their relationship. I don't believe anything of the film.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

Is there? Well, okay, so if we could try to maybe dissociate from this evil fact. Right? Like, if we could try to somehow, like, put it out of our minds that these are all fakers. All these people are faking. Do you have any favorite, like, coffee seams or coffee actors? Like maybe, like, maybe it's like a Kyle MacLachlan who just drinks a lot of coffee and is really good at it. Or like, is there somebody that you can think of an actor or just a scene that you love?

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, I was thinking about Kyle McLaughlin, just because that is such a hallmark of that show and of his character to have a nice cup of coffee. And also. Oh, I was thinking about. Because it's obvious, like coffee and cigarettes, like movies like that. And I feel like in the 90s especially there was that kind of, to me, that American diner culture of having a cup of coffee, getting it poured straight away as soon as you sit down. And even classic films where they would sit in diners and ask for a cup of coffee and a slice of pie. But I feel like it was so much a part of the intellectual culture of 90s movies where they would talk very intelligently and eloquently about big topics while having a cup of coffee and a cigarette. And so those coffee and movies to me sort of intertwined with that kind of like very verbose back and forth that I wish that I was part of when I was watching these movies as a kid.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, that's so true. I mean, I will definitely co sign on the fact that the 90s was all about coffee, coffee houses and being fake beatnik intellectuals writing poetry. I might have dabbled in that a little bit.

[Alicia Malone]

I was thinking of so I married an axe murderer or that big latte.

[Bowen Yang]

Big latte. I love that scene. Yeah, the camera follows it.

[Alicia Malone]

I do feel like. Oh, yeah, no, go ahead, Lucy.

[Bowen Yang]

Oh, no. I was gonna say, I think especially growing up in Australia and Australia. Australians are big coffee snobs. And so we are very particular about our coffee and the way it's made, especially espresso type coffees. The flat white, which was, I think, created in New Zealand and they drink it a lot in the uk, but in Australia we're very particular about it. And if you go to Australia, you get excellent coffee. And even when I was back In Australia in 2023, I stopped off at a gas station and there was literally a barista operating an espresso coffee machine at the gas station. That's the thing, it's. Australia is all about the espresso drinks, so that's the coffee of choice. But growing up watching movies, and particularly American movies, the idea of a diner coffee was just so intriguing to me. The idea of the drip coffee, because we didn't really do that in Australia. You might have instant coffee, but you don't have that kind of drip coffee that comes from the glass. Glass, you know, jug So I remember going to America and going to a diner and being like, I'm gonna order a drip coffee just like they do in America. And, I mean, in the movies. And it was. Yeah, it was disgusting. And I had to really change my taste buds to, now I like a diner coffee with lots of half and half. But I had to really train myself to that. But it was one of those things that I watched in movies so much that I really had an idea about the mood that it would create to order just a. Just a cup of coffee, you know?

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Alicia, it's so funny you say that, because I worked before I got into podcasting, I worked at a fancy, very fancy coffee shop in Venice called Intelligentsia.

[Bowen Yang]

Yes.

[Alicia Malone]

And Australians would come in all the time and complain about. They drove us nuts, because there's a lot of Australians that live in Venice, and they are very particular about their coffee. They'd always order flat whites, and they'd complain that we did it wrong. And I just feel like they were con. It was always like, oh, no, Australians are in here. They're gonna hate what I'm making.

[Bowen Yang]

I know.

[Alicia Malone]

So it's so funny you say that.

[Bowen Yang]

You go to Starbucks and they say, okay, they have a flat white. What size do you want? You're like, no, I'm out.

[Alicia Malone]

Because it comes down.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, this. This has been amazing. I'm so glad that you came and talk to us about this. I feel like you're blowing people's minds with this information. I mean, honestly, I didn't even know about it until you agreed to appear.

[Bowen Yang]

So sorry you're gonna be annoyed from now on because it is literally every single movie and every single TV show. Like, I can't even think of examples because it's every single one.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

So sorry about that.

[Alicia Malone]

We've ruined movies for all of our listeners, but that's okay. Yeah, it's the truth.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, I wanted to ask you before you take off, I wanted to talk a little bit about your new book. Maybe, like, tell people about your prior book, which I know you mentioned, is about female directors, but then the new one is very cool, and I feel like I have a personal stake in it. I just. I feel very emotional about it. So go ahead.

[Bowen Yang]

No, you sure do. I mean, I wrote three books for a smaller publisher about women in film. The first one, backwards and Achilles was sort of just an overarching look at the history of women in film and all the various obstacles that they have faced. Then people are asking me about, what are your favorite films made by female directors. So I did a second book called Female Gaze, which is all about female directors. And then I did a third book called Girls on Film, which is more a personal book about growing up loving movies while being a woman loving movies and all of the various intricacies that that brings up. And so after that book, I told everyone that I was done. I was like, no more books. It's really hard. I'm done with writing.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh my God. Yeah.

[Bowen Yang]

Well, Millie, it's a tough job, but I had always harbored a secret desire to have a TCM Library book because they do such a good job as, you know, with your book, TCM Underground. Beautifully constructed, nice photos, a proper editorial team and a beautiful book you can have on your coffee table. And TCM fans who are so supportive of all the books. So when the editor from Running Press, Sydney Seppala, approached me about writing a book for TCM Library, I had to say yes. And I started to think about what I wanted to write about and I felt like it was missing the TCM Library, more books about foreign films. So I started thinking about, okay, well that's a big topic. How am I going to write a book on international cinema? Essay Because I include plenty of English speaking films, you know, from Australia and from the UK and from New Zealand. And I thought maybe I'll write my favorite films. And I started to list out all the films that I would love to write about. And I got to something like 263. And then I thought, okay, I can't do that.

[Millie Decherico]

I've got to pare this down.

[Bowen Yang]

Gotta pare that down to at least around 50 films. That's sort of the manageable level when it comes to writing a book. And then I thought, well, I definitely not going to write the greatest films of all time because that book has been written many times. And what could I possibly have to to add to a conversation about Eight and a Half and Seven Samurai that hasn't already been said? So then I started thinking about the way that I like to watch films and the way that used to program TCM imports, Millie, which is seasonally. So you always think about the month that you're watching the film on tcm, the various holidays that it's around, and that's how I love to watch movies. I mentioned Hallmark Christmas movies. I love watching those around Christmas time. I love watching Halloween films, scary movies around Halloween, fall films when the leaves start to fall, and summer films to inspire me to go out to the beach. So I thought about it that way and that Ended up being a much more eclectic way to look at films, and it ended up with a list that is quite wild in the selections. It's not. You know, I think when you write about your favorite films, you could have a tendency to include many of the same genres or the same type of actors or the same countries, but this made me go a little bit wider and deeper and think about it more. So it's not necessarily my favorite films, but there are some favorites. There are films that. That aren't necessarily favorites, but all are interesting to talk about. And then, as you know, Millie from programming TCM imports for so long, what's interesting is both the connection they have to classic films, Hollywood films, American films, that. And people can relate to them, and also the scope that you get to talk about these films in. You're not only talking about the film, the making of the film, or even just the filmmaker, but the country, the trend of the country, the political moods, everything that was happening at that time when that film came out.

[Millie Decherico]

Absolutely. No, this is so wonderful. I'm so glad that you did this book. It needed to be done. It looks gorgeous. I mean, you've got, like, you know, Penelope Cruz on the COVID with, like, Mastriani and Black Girl. I mean, it's awesome. And it's available now. It just came out, right, like, about a month ago.

[Bowen Yang]

Yeah, it just came out in April 22. And by the way, I have to say, Millie, every time I go to the film festival or I talk to TCM fans, the thing I hear over and over again is I miss Underground. Oh, yeah. I really miss Underground. I'm like, yeah, I know.

[Millie Decherico]

We.

[Bowen Yang]

We miss Underground. And we miss Millie.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, thank you for saying that. That's very sweet of you. I miss you guys, too. But I'm also. I still watch the network constantly. Like, I'm like. Even though I haven't been there for a couple years, I was just like. Like, I still watch it. I'm still. I still turn on because it is, like, literally the best place to see cla, like, any film, but mostly the classics and foreign titles. Like, it's the best channel on cable. I hate to say it, as much as I. As much as I might have a gripe about DZM in some capacity, I'm like, no, it's actually the best channel, and you're a big part of that. So congratulations with everything. Is there. Are you working on anything else? Like, do you want to tease anything?

[Bowen Yang]

Well, if. If you're fans of the HBO show Gilded Age, as I am. I love that film, that show. I'm doing the third season of the podcast, which is starting soon with the third season of the show. And this time, as you know, podcasts are all video now. So it's a video podcast in addition to an audio podcast. Though I have to say, Gilded Age drinking tea.

[Millie Decherico]

No.

[Bowen Yang]

No liquids in those cups. So I need to have a talking production right there.

[Alicia Malone]

Thank God.

[Millie Decherico]

Right there.

[Bowen Yang]

They pour the tea, but the tea they're actually drinking is just. It's an empty cup, unfortunately. Yeah, but I'm doing that. And then. Yeah, really, that's it. Living a lovely quiet life in Maine.

[Alicia Malone]

Okay, we're coming back with the employees pick section of the show where we recommend a movie based on the theme of the discussion we had today. And, oh, we have so much, so much things to pick from. So many good options to pick from. Millie, what's your employees pick?

[Millie Decherico]

I am not going to choose. Even though I should. I am not going to choose the sequel to Showgirls, which is called Showgirls Two Pennies from Heaven, featuring the actress Rena Riffle, which.

[Alicia Malone]

Who played Penny in the film Penny, AKA Hope.

[Millie Decherico]

AKA Hope. So technically, there was a sequel. And I do have this. I have a rip of this. Somebody ripped it for me. I think my friend David ripped it on a. A disc for me. And I actually haven't seen it yet, but it is literally on my console table in front of my television in my living room.

[Alicia Malone]

I think in 30 years, there'll be a reappraisal and people will appreciate Showgirls two Pennies from Heaven.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. Is it Rena Riffle or Rena Rafael? Anyway, it was produced by and distributed by her production company, Rena Rafael Films. I think it's incredible. The budget was $30,000, written and directed by her. I mean, come on, that's just going to be like a honorable mention, I suppose.

[Alicia Malone]

Yes.

[Millie Decherico]

So anyway, I. My actual employee pick for this week is. I mean, it's probably real basic, I suppose, but I'm going to go the Gina Gershon route and I'm going to pick bound from 96. It came out the year after Showgirls. Brand new. Ish. Like maybe a little over a year. Blu Ray on Criterion. The Wachowski sisters. Holy shit. This movie rules. I love battle.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, this movie's incredible.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. It's so good, isn't it?

[Alicia Malone]

It's so good. And it's just like the Wachowskis were so good. Just that's like their first movie and it's it's so. It's incredible.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah, it's a great, great film. Joey Pants. Joe Pantoleoni is sleazy as in this film. It's so good. I mean, honestly, like, if you did a double feature, Showgirls and Bound. Damn.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, I'm having a great time. That's a great double feature. There's a picture of, I think it's at Sundance Film Festival of Joey Pants, Gina Kershawn and Jennifer Tilly all in a hot tub together. And Joey Pants is smoking a cigar and he's got his, like, arms around the two of them and they. It's like they look like they're having the time of their lives.

[Millie Decherico]

Oh, my God.

[Alicia Malone]

And, well, if.

[Millie Decherico]

If you want to do a double feature of Showgirls and Bound with me, you can email us at Dear Movies at exactly right, media.com provided that I have time. But I love Bound and I.

[Alicia Malone]

If it fits into her calendar, she will do it.

[Millie Decherico]

I love Bound and I'm so glad it got a Criterion release. It's so good. So that's my pick.

[Alicia Malone]

It's really. You can see why the Wachowskis were allowed to do a big budget blockbuster movie after making that movie. It's just so good. So good. I'm gonna pick another Paul Verhoeven movie. It's actually, I think, the Net, the movie he made after Showgirls, and that is 1997's Starship Troopers. I can't believe he got such a big budget after the flop of Showgirls to make this movie. But he did exactly what he did with Showgirls. He's like, he made this outrageous movie that no one understood and flopped. And Starship Troopers is so violent. It's the first R rated movie I ever saw. I was nine years old. And there's so much violence, there's nudity. It is really outrageous. And it's all about fascism and it's about a fascist state. And this is what that looks like and why that is bad. But a lot of people did not understand that fascist commentary at the time. And. Yeah, but it is a really good sci fi movie with Denise Richards and Neil Patrick Harris. And Casper. What's his name?

[Millie Decherico]

Van Dean. Is that his name?

[Alicia Malone]

Casper Van Dien, Jake Busey, Michael Ironside. It's amazing. Clancy Brown. I love this movie. I watch this movie all the time.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. If you go back at our feedback feed right now on Apple, I think there was an episode where I talked about, I did Starship Troopers for. I saw what you did, and it was such a blast to rewatch again. I mean, I. I mean, it was hard to pick an employee pick because I definitely wanted to go the Verhoeven route initially. But you made a good choice. Starship Troopers.

[Alicia Malone]

Thank you, Starship Troopers. Love it. Amazing. What a great episode. A passionate episode.

[Millie Decherico]

We're on high here on Dear Movies. I love you. Yeah, I. We're going to have to do a sec. A sequel to this episode on our Instagram Live. So check for those things if you are on the Internet.

[Alicia Malone]

Absolutely.

[Millie Decherico]

Okay. So in the future, you know, usually we give out film advice. We didn't this time because we just were too chatty. But we love it when people write us and need recommendations. Or if you want to talk about, like a filmography for somebody or if you got a film gripe or a film consensual group.

[Alicia Malone]

Like a film consensual group.

[Millie Decherico]

Right. Please do all of that at dear [e-mail] and if you want to, it would be great if you want to leave us a voicemail, just record it on your phone and like the notes app or something like that, or the voice memos app and then send it to us. Make sure it's under a minute so we can actually play it and. Yeah, stuff.

[Alicia Malone]

So I love all the people that have written in and given us voicemails. Some. Really, there's just great, great stuff.

[Millie Decherico]

I was looking through the emails, by the way. Like, I don't do this often, but I was like, I'm gonna pop in the emails and somebody like. So obviously we got somebody that talked about how you were their unrequited crush because we talked about that.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah.

[Millie Decherico]

And then I. Somebody wrote me a love letter. Yeah.

[Alicia Malone]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to report that to you.

[Millie Decherico]

Thanks for telling me because it was just sitting in there and I was like, damn, who wrote this?

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. So we're accepting love letters. People telling us they have crushes on us. We like all of that stuff a lot. And it won't be right on the show, but we do appreciate it. Well, maybe we'll read it on the show if it's really well written or something. But we accept all of [e-mail] Follow us on our socials at dearmovies. I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterbox handles are Acle o' Brien and. And you can listen to Dear Movies. I love you on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts that Is right.

[Millie Decherico]

Well, Casey, let's talk about next week. Oh, my God.

[Alicia Malone]

Yeah. We're doing a newer movie.

[Millie Decherico]

We are. And I must feel like we had to because I had so many people in my life, like, send me a message and ask me my take on it. And so when I pitched it, I was like, casey, let's just do an episode about it. Cause we're gonna have to. But we wanna talk about the new movie that came out this year. That was the follow up by the director Celine Song, her film Past Lives that came out a few years ago. We're going to talk about Materialists, starring Dakota Johnson, Chris Evans and Pedro Pascal. And it's going to be interesting because it's a very new movie, came out very recently.

[Alicia Malone]

So it's another kind of themeless episode. Well, we're just gonna really zero in on this movie and figure out what the hell is going on because people are talking about it.

[Millie Decherico]

Yeah. And it's yet another movie starring a love triangle of people. What's up with this?

[Alicia Malone]

We'll see. We'll find out.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, Casey, thanks again for your stunning discourse on a masterpiece. And I had a good time.

[Alicia Malone]

Me too. Thank you, Alicia Malone for being on the show.

[Millie Decherico]

Thanks, Alicia.

[Alicia Malone]

Great chatting with you.

[Millie Decherico]

All right, everyone, see you next time.

[Alicia Malone]

Bye.

[Millie Decherico]

This has been an exactly right production, hosted by me, Millie de Cherico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Alicia Malone]

This episode was mixed by Tom Breifogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie Decherico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Alicia Malone]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Cherico.

[Millie Decherico]

We love you.

[Alicia Malone]

Goodbye. Be kind.

[Millie Decherico]

Rewind.

[Casey O'Brien]

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