U.C.U (Usher Cinematic Universe) & She's All That (1999)! Plus, Film Critic Katie Walsh

Summary

Dear Movies, I Love You

Episode: U.C.U (Usher Cinematic Universe) & She's All That (1999)! Plus, Film Critic Katie Walsh
Date: August 26, 2025
Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O'Brien
Guest: Katie Walsh (Film Critic, Tribune News Service)

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Overview:

This episode celebrates and lovingly roasts the iconic 1999 teen rom-com She’s All That, with a special focus on Usher’s surprising movie career—the tongue-in-cheek "Usher Cinematic Universe" (or U.C.U). Hosts Millie and Casey dive deep into the film's pop and film culture legacy, examine its 1990s-coded tropes, and share their own personal stories from the era. Special guest Katie Walsh joins for a passionate discussion on the cinematic subgenre of “unhappy rich people on vacation.”

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Key Segments & Discussion Points

1. Introduction & Pre-Show Banter

Timestamp: 02:26–05:46

• Millie and Casey playfully riff on high school popularity and the stakes of “prom queen” status—tying it to She’s All That’s core themes.
• Establishing the episode’s comedic tone and seamless blend between personal storytelling and film criticism.

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2. The “Film Diary” – Recent Watches

Timestamp: 08:09–23:48
Millie’s Picks:

• Ponyboy (2024) by Esteban Arango: Surprising, atmospheric thriller about an intersex sex worker caught up with a menacing pimp (played by Dylan O'Brien).
  “It’s kind of tense…David Lynch meets Nicholas Winding Refn. A lot of neon, dream sequences...I went in totally blind and really enjoyed it.” – Millie [09:59]
• The Devil, Probably (1977) by Robert Bresson: Watched via Criterion Channel livestream; muses on its late-period European existentialism, “It feels like a late period meditation on something...Austere director in a big life quandary. Kind of fascinating.” [16:39]

Casey’s Pick:

• I Bought a Vampire Motorcycle (1990):
  “It’s British, very Evil Dead influenced, a horror comedy...legitimately laughing. Reminded me of Shaun of the Dead. If you want something horror but not scary and silly—check it out.” – Casey [20:58]

• Comedic riffing on personality differences (“you’re a Capricorn...a planner...I’m an Aries, just energy and adrenaline”). [22:25]

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3. Main Feature: The She’s All That & Usher Cinematic Universe Deep Dive

a) Usher Love & Legacy

Timestamp: 26:39–35:13

• Usher’s Atlanta roots, rise to fame, and major albums.
• Mutual fan admiration:
  “There was always an Usher song out...I was delighted by everything he put out.” – Casey [28:07]
  “I stand hard for Atlanta—and Usher... he knew how to dance, he knew how to sing...” – Millie [32:41]
• The phenomenon of pop stars acting, and how Usher’s role in She’s All That is both emblematic and oddly tangential (filmed separately from main cast, added to explain the dance sequences). [33:18–34:48]

b) She’s All That—Film Analysis and Cultural Placement

Timestamp: 35:13–73:23

• Classic "Pygmalion/My Fair Lady" plot summarized [37:04] and skewered.
• Reflection on 90s/00s teen culture, TRL & MTV era nostalgia, music and fashion absurdity, and “the era as a low point for feminism” [45:16].
• Notorious “am I a bet? Am I a fucking bet?” reveal scene:
  “Freddie Prinze Jr. was really emotional...he was really in his feelings during that part...It just really...authentically sensitive at times.” – Millie [49:22]
  “The scene where Rachel Leigh Cook says ‘am I a fucking bet?’...I was touched and feeling things.” – Casey [48:49]
• Notable oddities:
  • “Interminable pube pizza scene” [47:46]
  • Ensemble cast: Matthew Lillard, Paul Walker, Kieran Culkin, Gabrielle Union, Anna Paquin, Lil’ Kim, Sarah Michelle Gellar, Alexis Arquette, etc. [60:30–62:33]
  • The “magical” prom dance sequence and its jarring integration (Fatboy Slim’s “Rockefeller Skank”; choreographer-director). [68:57–71:17]
• Comedic take on makeover tropes, the implausibility of Lainey Boggs as a true “nerd,” and 90s misogyny;
  “If she went to my high school, she’d be having sex before any of these jocks, period. There was this whole other underworld of nerds that were getting laid on the regs." – Millie [54:52]

c) Soundtrack Discussion & Secret Guilty Pleasures

Timestamp: 63:00–68:57

• The ubiquity of Sixpence None the Richer’s “Kiss Me” and secret 90s music loves (“I downloaded it from Napster...listened to it secretly on my iPod...” – Millie [64:19])
• Fatboy Slim and dance music nostalgia.

d) Prom & Experimental Theater—Personal Stories

Timestamp: 73:44–78:24

• Casey attended prom all four years (not because of popularity), and both reflect on different cultural rules of prom-going, from “John Hughesian” archetypes to the loosening boundaries of “alternative” teens by the 2000s.
• Realism of the film’s experimental theater subplot.

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4. Area of Expertise: “Unhappy Rich People on Vacation” with Katie Walsh

Timestamp: 78:43–108:40

Overview:

• Katie’s enthusiasm for films featuring “inherent conflict and inherent beauty,” where rich people’s internal dramas simmer or boil over while in gorgeous locations (“a cheat code for filmmakers”). [80:57]
• Genre ranges from comedies (Sex and the City 2) to horror (Speak No Evil), family dramas (Darjeeling Limited, Frankie), and European “chic” (boats, islands, weddings).
• “There has to be some baggage entering into the vacation...it’s that sense of ‘wherever you go, there you are.’” – Katie [84:47, 92:29]
• The bond and fracture among group travelers – “There’s always one enemy on a group trip”; strategies for survival (New York Times tips) [102:31–104:32].
• Filmmaker suggestions: Reuben Östlund (Triangle of Sadness, Force Majeure), Luca Guadagnino (A Bigger Splash, Call Me By Your Name), Nicole Holofcener, Bong Joon Ho, Mia Hansen-Løve, Pedro Almodóvar.
• Notable letterboxd lists by Katie: “Inexplicably large fireplaces,” “Women be talking to aliens,” “Iconic himbos” (“Bruce Campbell is such a himbo!” – Katie [107:41]).

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5. Employee’s Picks: Usher Cinematic Universe Edition

Timestamp: 109:26–113:03

• Millie:
  • The Faculty (1998, dir. Robert Rodriguez): Another Usher appearance! High school sci-fi horror with 90s heartthrob cast (Josh Hartnett, Jordana Brewster, Elijah Wood, Jon Stewart). “If I was selling drugs in high school, I would totally put them in a pen. I mean, come on.” – Millie [110:38]
• Casey:
  • Can’t Hardly Wait (1998): Ensemble all-in-one-night party movie with an iconic 90s teen cast (Jennifer Love Hewitt, Ethan Embry, Lauren Ambrose, Seth Green).
    “I like an all-in-one-night movie...I’ve always enjoyed this one—and I like The Replacements’ song ‘Can’t Hardly Wait.’” – Casey [112:37]

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6. Closing & Next Week’s Preview

Timestamp: 116:41–119:42

• Next episode: K-POP DEMON HUNTERS (2025)—Netflix animated musical juggernaut.
• Reminder to email film questions, follow on Instagram (@dearmoviesiloveyou), and rate/review the show.
• Running joke: “Show us you recommended the show to a friend, and we’ll mail you a Werther’s Original.”

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Usher:
  ”If She’s All That were the movie Cabaret, he would be like the emcee of the KitKat Club...” – Millie [04:26]
• On the “makeover” trope:
  “If you went to my high school, you’d be having sex before the jocks, period... There was this underworld of nerds getting laid on the regs.” – Millie [54:52]
• On soundtrack guilt:
  “I downloaded ‘Kiss Me’ from Napster... listened to it secretly on my iPod.” – Millie [64:01]
• On group trips:
  “There’s always one enemy on a group trip...sometimes that’s an unpredictable person.” – Katie [103:05]
• On rich people on vacation genre:
  “There’s an element of: wherever you go, there you are...so much expectation—then disappointment.” – Katie [92:57]
• On prom:
  “High school was challenging, so that’s why it’s weird to say I went to prom all four years because I don’t feel like it reflects my actual high school experience.” – Casey [75:00]

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Essential Timestamps

• [02:26] — Prom-Queen banter & She’s All That intro
• [09:17] — Millie’s “Ponyboy” review
• [20:58] — Casey’s “I Bought a Vampire Motorcycle” review
• [26:39] — Usher background & U.C.U. intro
• [37:04] — She’s All That plot summary
• [47:46] — Pube pizza scene: “interminable” pacing
• [54:52] — “Makeover” trope and nerd hotness logic
• [63:00] — Sixpence None the Richer, Fatboy Slim & soundtrack nostalgia
• [68:57] — Discussion of the prom dance sequence
• [78:43] — Katie Walsh joins (“Unhappy Rich People on Vacation”)
• [109:26] — Employee’s Picks: The Faculty & Can’t Hardly Wait

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Overall Tone & Style

Conversational, playful, deeply knowledgeable, peppered with personal 90s nostalgia, self-deprecation, and an attitude of inclusive cinephilia. Hosts seamlessly weave humor, cultural critique, and genuine celebration of even “flawed” films. The guest segment balances insightful film geekery with everyday group-dynamic truths.

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For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This is a rich, energetic celebration of late 90s teen movies seen through the lens of two deeply enthusiastic film fans. You’ll get nostalgia, sharp insight, new movie recommendations, and hear film criticism that’s as joyful as it is rigorous.

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Employees Picks This Week

• Millie: The Faculty (1998)
• Casey: Can’t Hardly Wait (1998)

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Stay tuned: Next episode tackles Netflix’s viral animated hit K-POP DEMON HUNTERS (2025)!
Follow on Instagram @dearmoviesiloveyou and write in with your own film rites of passage.

Transcript

[Millie de Chirico]

This is exactly right.

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[Casey O'Brien]

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[Millie de Chirico]

Casey. I know. Okay, here's the thing. I have to win Prom queen this year. I have everything going for me. I got a 2,500 on my SATs, which I know what you're thinking. It doesn't even go up that high. But guess what? They made a special test just for me and I got every question right and it doesn't matter if we broke up, it doesn't matter if I went and chased down Hunter Biden and try to date him and got dumped, and now I'm coming back to Zach. It's going to happen. I'm going to win. I have the most friends. I'm the prettiest. I'm the smartest.

[Casey O'Brien]

We all agree.

[Millie de Chirico]

So what other choice is there? I'm not worried. I'm not worried.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, it's amazing that we're talking about, you know, because the exactly right Podcast prom is impending, and it's just. It's really synergistic. You know, there's a lot of synergy here because we're talking about a movie that kind of deals with some. Actually, some similar themes to what we were just talking about.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, interesting. What's that movie?

[Casey O'Brien]

That movie is she's all that from 1999. And we're talking about that today because we're exploring. I don't know if it's the most popular cinematic universe out there, but it is one that's important, and it is the Usher cinematic universe, because obviously Usher is a part of this film. And. Yeah. So I'm excited to kind of explore that with you. And I think, you know, like you were saying, like, there's a lot of personal things going on in your life right now that kind of touch upon the themes of this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right. I will say that Usher has been in more movies than I actually thought he was.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. I think when we pitched this original idea, we were like, oh, he's only been in two movies, but he's been in more. But we're kind of.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're kind of honing in on one maybe. Yeah, his most. His. One of his most iconic, if not his most iconic role, which is that he kind of plays. If she's all that were the movie Cabaret, he would be like the emcee of the KitKat club, wouldn't you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I would say that he's kind.

[Millie de Chirico]

Of a whimsical narrator that pops through and kind of sets up tense moments for the characters by explaining exactly what's going on to the rest of the students of the high school, which I think is wild. And we'll probably talk about that a little bit more.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, well, I mean, he's kind of like the radio woman in the warriors or like any other movie where there's like kind of like a radio voice sort of narrating what's going on. He does that in this film. We also have a great little. My area of expertise with my friend Katie Walsh, film critic Katie Walsh, where we're talking about rich people on vacation. So that'll be a fun combo. We had a great time talking to Katie about that. So that's coming up as well.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, really? Your friend, huh?

[Casey O'Brien]

Our friend now? She is your friend.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's our friend now.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, of course she'd be my friend. I'm the most popular girl at exactly right high.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, we're intimidated and frightened of you, but we are your friends you're waiting for.

[Millie de Chirico]

My downfall is basically what you're doing. Well, okay, on that note, you are listening to Dear movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you.

[Katie Walsh]

And I've got to know if you love me, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes or no.

[Casey O'Brien]

Check the box below.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hey, everybody, this is the podcast Dear movies, I love you. It is for those who are in a relationship with movies, and we're talking about the ones where, you know, somebody maybe tries to involve you in some kind of crazy bet, but that they actually do care about you and fall in love with you and want to be your boyfriend. My name is Millie de Chirico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

And this episode is gonna be kind of fun. I have. It's so funny, when I was thinking about this episode, I was like, oh, I'm gonna go and rewatch she's all that, because I haven't seen it since it came out, obviously.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, really?

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. And then while I was watching it, I was like, have I actually seen this movie or have I just watched the trailer 100,000 times? I can't. I could remember a lot of it, really, but then I remembered a lot of it. So I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. It feels like one that was on tv, like it was on the USA Network or something. So you might have just by osmosis, sort of absorbed it over time. I. Millie, I just really hope that you didn't start hosting this podcast with me on a bet that you could turn even the most untalented dipshit into a, you know, podcast king. And so I just really hope that that wasn't the case leading up to this.

[Millie de Chirico]

It feels more like Brittany Murphy and Clueless, to be honest, because you have.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm like a reclamation project.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But there's hope there. Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I've given you a makeover, and now you are just as popular, if not more popular than me.

[Casey O'Brien]

So. Ok.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. More popular. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, right.

[Casey O'Brien]

You're the most popular girl.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, right.

[Casey O'Brien]

We've established that. Millie, we start every episode very similarly, I would say. And this one is no different. We're gonna open up the film diary. Yeah. The ancient text, the scrolls. Ooh. Millie, what have you watched? How has this week been for you? Movie wise? I don't really wanna get into like emotionally how it's been for you, but movie wise, how has it been?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, surprising that you're a man and you don't wanna talk about emotions. It actually was pretty short, I gotta say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me too. I am short.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

In stature and in my movie list. Watching this week.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well. But I actually have to say I was pretty surprised by at least one of these movies I really, really enjoyed, actually. I really enjoyed both. So first up in my film is I was at my friend's house. We had some friends in town and we decided to have a movie night. And one of my friends, Janine, suggested we watch this movie from 2024. It's called Pony Boy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Pony Boy. B O I. I have not heard of this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

It was directed by Esteban Arango. It is. It's really good. It's basically a movie about an intersex sex worker from New Jersey that gets involved with this. Basically their pimp who is played by Chuck Dylan o'.

[Casey O'Brien]

Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. Dylan. How do you know? Is he. Are you related to him?

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm not related.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is that one of your brothers?

[Casey O'Brien]

He's. He's maybe a distant cousin.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

We spell it the same way. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. So River Gallo plays Ponyboy and it's just like. It's kind of a tense. It's like a thriller, but also kind of a love story. There's the mood of it is very. It kind of reminds me a little of like a David lynch meets Nicholas Winding Refn kind of feel. There's a lot of neon, a lot of like 60s songs, dream sequences type thing. But it is really good. I had never heard of it and went in totally blind and really enjoyed it. And to the point of this maybe distant relative of yours, Dylan o' Brien plays Vinnie, who's kind of the like bad guy, pimp slash drug dealer of the film. He's amazing, by the way. Like, he was really good in it. And I was like, I've never even heard of him. So I was surprised on all fronts by this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's great. That's great to hear. It looks really good. I want to check this out.

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[Millie de Chirico]

You.

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[Millie de Chirico]

And then I watched so I don't know if you've done this or do this, but have you ever watched the live stream on the Criterion Channel before?

[Casey O'Brien]

No. I've been always interested in it there's like a 247 live stream. Just like. It's kind of like a TV channel playing on the Criterion Channel. I'm not like, you know, I don't do things for fun randomly ever. I'm not a very like, what's the word for that? I'm not a very spontaneous person. So I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

You're not very joyful or full of.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's not a lot of joy there. Yeah, there's no curiosity. I just sort of sit in this little box and talk to Millie sometimes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow. Dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I'm just not a spontaneous. My movie viewing is very non spontaneous. So it would be hard for me to just be like, let me throw this on.

[Millie de Chirico]

But.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I'm. But I'm jealous of people who have that sort of joy in their heart. So continue and teach me.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, you have a child which prevents you from doing many spontaneous things. Okay, that's true. That's not a knock. I mean, at the end of the day.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, it's true.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. But at the end of the day, you parents who have no choices also have families and beautiful home lives that we don't have. The childless do not have. While we can watch criterion 24 7, you will have somebody to take care of you when you're old. I suppose that's the trade off.

[Casey O'Brien]

God.

[Millie de Chirico]

Anyway, to that point I. I started watching it because honestly, I just kind of like having it on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And it's there. I don't know what the programming rhyme and reason is. It just seems random all the time. And there's really. There's actually no. It's just really movies on movies. And in order to even find out what you're watching, you have to go to like a separate website which tells you like, what's on the air right now. Like, for example, if I were to put in. I think it's what's on now.mirerionchannel.com it is the double Life of Veronique.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's one of my favorite movies.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was gonna say maybe we should stop recording. I can put that on right now.

[Millie de Chirico]

Kirstoff. Kirislowski. I know. He. We should stop actually and watch this. But it's. I don't know, it's kind of cool. And so because of that, I was just sitting in front of it and I watched a movie that I'd actually never seen before. And it's this like late Robert Bresson movie called the Devil probably.

[Casey O'Brien]

I believe I've seen this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, you have? Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

I went through a Robert Bresson period when I was, like, 23, and I, like, watched all of his movies, and then I think the Arrow in Santa Monica. Had they screened all of his movies? Yeah, I've seen the Devil, probably.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I have not, obviously. And I was like, oh, this feels like. I mean, we kind of talked about this in the Cronenberg episode. It feels like it's this, like, late period meditation on something. Right. On life, on something heavy. Not to say that Robert Poussin movies aren't heavy, but do you know what I'm saying? It's like he's kind of like. It's like, take the most, like, austere director and then put him in a period of life where he's, like, questioning maybe afterlife or current life or family or, you know, something career or whatever. Put him in front of, like, a big life quandary and then have them make a movie and see what it's like. I don't know. It was kind of fascinating.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it. It's an interesting one. For those who don't know who Robert Bresson is, he was a director, a French director from, like, the 1950s and 60s, predominantly. But he worked until the 70s, which I think the Devil probably came out in the 70s. And he's kind of famous for his actors. The way he directed his actors, he basically didn't want them to act. They're, like, lifeless and monotone, and they're emoting very little. And his movies are really interesting. It usually deals with religious themes, but he's an incredible filmmaker. I know that wasn't, like, a good sell of Robert Brousson, but, like, really interesting stuff. And he's hugely influential.

[Millie de Chirico]

This movie is about basically just, like, a really disaffected young man who wants to unalive himself. So it's like, you know. Okay, that seems to be, like, a pretty hardcore film. So. Yeah, the Devil, probably. Great title. Also a comma in there, by the way. I would be remiss if I didn't say that it is the Devil, comma, probably.

[Casey O'Brien]

Probably. That's kind of funny. It's sort of a funny title. I like it. We should do a game on every episode where we turn on that criterion 24.7stream, and then we have to guess what the movie is playing.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. That'd be fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

That'd be kind of cool, right?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. There's a lot of obscure shit on that channel.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And whoever gets it right gets a little treat. Like a little chocolate or something.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, a little chocolate. Little chocolate, A little biscuit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Okay, Millie. I have a bit of a short list as well, and that list is one movie. So there is a movie theater in Minneapolis that specializes in art house movies, and it's kind of similar to Cine Family in Los Angeles, which no longer exists, but it is a art house cinema that doesn't really play new movies. I mean, Cine Family did play some new movies, but, like, it specializes in, like, repertory screenings of, like, intensely obscure arthouse movies. And that theater in Minneapolis is called the Trilon, and it's really close to my house, and it's amazing. And Bret Bergson knows the people who. Our former guest, Brett Berg knows the people who run that place. And he's actually done his, like, found footage shows there. Anywho, there is a night each month run by these two cinephiles, and it is called Tape Freaks. And basically they choose a movie and you don't know what it is until you they. You don't know what it is until the title of the movie comes up. So, like, you just are kind of trusting these two to pick, like, an interesting movie. And they're usually genre films. So I went in blindfolded. I had no idea what I was seeing this week. And I watched a movie. I wonder if you've heard of this movie. It's called I Bought a Vampire Motorcycle.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, never heard of it at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's from 1990 and it's great. It's British, and it is very heavily influenced by Evil Dead. It is like a big time horror comedy. But I was, like, legitimately laughing. There was no one really of note in it, but I thought it was, like, really well done and silly and it is really creative. And I was. I was lolling. It reminded me of, like, Shaun of the Dead. It reminded me of Evil Dead. It's kind of, like fast and funny and there's a lot of goofy visuals and. Yeah, I Bought a Vampire motorcycle. Check it out.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, so you just mentioned about how you don't do whimsical things. I would say walking in blind into a movie theater and have somebody play something for you is pretty whimsical.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, yes, I would say so, but it's not spontaneous because I like, I'm like, all right, at this time, I'm scheduling spontaneity or, like, someone to pick something for me. You know, it's kind of scheduled, so. So I don't really count that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, Tomato, Tomato is all I'm saying.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just feel like you're walking into life just doing what you please. I need to have, like, a schedule. I need things planned out. I just. My heart is not free. It is in a cage. And I just feel like you live life in a very fun way and I'm jealous of you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, it's a lonely life, but also, you're a Capricorn. Do we have to, like, continue to underline this fact in this Sharpie marker? Like, you are by design the heavens and the stars. You are, by design a planner and a meticulous list maker. And, you know, you like to keep a tight clock. So I'm an Aries. I'm all fire and pure energy and adrenaline. I have no thoughts behind anything I do. I just go for it and worry about it later. So, I mean, it's just.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I wish I could. I wish I could live that way.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I wish I could live your way. How about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Seems like we should have a Freaky Friday situation.

[Millie de Chirico]

Maybe. Maybe.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right. Well, yeah, that's about it. I bought a vampire motorcycle. I thought if you're looking for like a Halloween, if you're around Halloween, you're like, I want to watch something that's like horror but is like, not scary and is silly. Check it out. And brutish. Very brutish.

[Millie de Chirico]

That sounds amazing. I'm putting it on my letterboxd list. Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And like, no one has seen it. And it was like no one saw it when it came out either. So, yeah, that's about it. Anywho, should we move on? Should we close the diary up?

[Millie de Chirico]

Close thing? Jeez.

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[Casey O'Brien]

All right, we are here at the main discussion of our episode and we are talking about a movie called she's all that. But we're also talking about a man and his name is Usher.

[Millie de Chirico]

Usher.

[Casey O'Brien]

Usher. Now is Usher from Atlanta?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, dude, Usher.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is he a hero? A hometown hero?

[Millie de Chirico]

If you want to know a couple of quick demo facts on Usher. Okay. He was born on October 14, 1978 in Dallas, Texas. Okay. He spent the majority of his young life in Chattanooga, Tennessee. But then eventually they moved, the family moved to Atlanta, Georgia because he was starting to do the old song and dance stuff as a kid.

[Casey O'Brien]

I remember he was a young guy when he broke onto the scene.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And he, I mean basically he moved to Atlanta before high school and went to North Springs High School. For anybody that I know, actually I do know people went to North Springs. But so effectively he's been in Atlanta for his the majority of his life and he, I think he's more associated with Atlanta than any other place. But yeah, I, you know, I think you and I share A love for Usher.

[Casey O'Brien]

Love Usher.

[Millie de Chirico]

I loved discovering that, by the way.

[Casey O'Brien]

That I love Usher.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, you know, I don't even know if I own any of his albums, but I just. Like. There was a time where I just feel like he had a hit on the radio and I was delighted every time. Like, there was always an Usher song out for like a long period of time. And I was delighted by everything he put out.

[Millie de Chirico]

I have loved him for a very long time as well. So, yeah, I first got into Usher. Well, I had heard him on the radio, on R and B radio before. My Way. But My Way felt like the album that. I mean, I remember buying that on cd and my sister and I used to listen to it in her car. That's the one that had, like, nice and slow and you'd make me wanna. Which was like my favorite to this day. I fucking love youe Make Me wanna. Every time it comes on, I go crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

The first time I ever was introduced to him was the song My Way, specifically the music video, which takes place in some. In kind of like almost like Clockwork Orange esque future kind of. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like underneath a bridge or something like that or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's like a. He's like in. Yeah. Industrial kind of areas and like he's on some like compacted cars and stuff. And I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

But yeah. So I basically, like, loved My Way. Then, of course, I rocked 8701 like crazy because it was just like all the songs that were on the radio. You got it bad, you don't have to call. Which I love that video too. And then.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then I feel like he got into more like, with like. He had almost like had a reinvention with like. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And Confessions. Like, that felt like a later area era. Usher, which I also loved.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, Confessions. It's a. It's a legendary album because it was basically his confessions to his bethrottled, who was, of course, as you know, Chilli from tlc. Basically being like, I did something bad and now you're gonna leave me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I'm man enough to tell you this.

[Casey O'Brien]

That song is so funny when he's like, things were going great until my side chick got pregnant. Like, that's really where things went wrong. It wasn't him cheating. Like, I don't know. It's just very funny. Funny that it's like, I never thought this was gonna happen.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, Confessions, part one and part two is fucking amazing. Like, they should have made a movie about that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, absolutely.

[Millie de Chirico]

Confessions, part one Was the one where he talks about how he was, like, holding hands in the Beverly center, not giving a damn who sees him.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. And then Confessions, part two is where he's basically like, this ain't about my career. This ain't about my life. It's like, tell you the woman that I love, that I'm having a baby. Barely. But no.

[Casey O'Brien]

Just when I thought I could say all that I could say, my chick on the side says she's got one on the way.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, that shit to me is epic. And I feel like it's just so dramatic.

[Casey O'Brien]

So dramatic. Oh, I love burn, too. Burn that, burn that. So good.

[Millie de Chirico]

He's like, you gonna learn. Gotta let it bur. Yeah, I love it. But I think the thing about Usher that I've always loved is that he, like. Besides the fact that he's definitely, like, an Atlanta guy, and I've always. I mean, I stand very hard for Atlanta, as everybody knows. Even though I did go to exactly right. High school. I stand Atlanta for forever. I love ato. Okay. But he also was like. I don't know. He's like one of those, like, guys who was, like, famous at a young age. He knew how to dance. He knew how to sing. Like, are you kidding? The video for no Limit, which is. If no one has seen that video for no Limit, it's incredible. You have to watch it. It's really fun. It's like, him and then, you know, young thugs on it. This is like, pre Rico case young thug who's also from Atlanta, and I Stan as well. But I. I don't know. I've always felt like he was kind of like a contemporary because he's not. I think we're, like, almost the same age. He might be, like, a few years.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he's 46.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah, we're the same age.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which is, like, crazy because it feels like he's been around for eternity.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And he's only 46 years old.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And that's. I think the. Like, he's. Because he was so famous so young that it feels like, yeah, he has been around. He's probably like, you know, he's ancient in terms of, you know, the music industry, I suppose. But it's like, the funny thing about Usher is that he was in movies, too, which is always that thing of like. Okay. Of course, like, famous musicians want to also act. A lot of them do act. A lot of them are actually kind of good.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, yeah. I actually feel like the batting average for act or musician turned actor is Pretty high.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And this era of the she's all that era, like the 99ish, the 99 2000s. I mean, usher was at his absolute peak. So it's so funny to be like, put him in a movie where he's like, barely in it, and then he plays this like whimsical Pied Piper DJ character that like kind of comes in. It seems like he was filmed completely separately from like the entire. The rest of the school.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, it's Millie. I was gonna ask, do you think they shot all of his stuff in one day? And like, even for like the DJ, when he's like DJing the prom, I'm like, you could have just shot him up against a wall and then like edited those like, close ups into the rest of the prom sequence.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I. In my she's all that research, which I did, I actually did a lot of she's all that research.

[Casey O'Brien]

Someone had to.

[Millie de Chirico]

They made him come back to film the prom sequence because. We'll talk about this in a little bit. Because there is a very famous dance sequence at the prom and she's all that. That feels untethered from the rest of the film perhaps, but that it was so untethered that they were like, we have to bring Usher back to give it some context. And so they reshot with him so he could do his little arm wish.

[Casey O'Brien]

I cannot wait to get into that. I mean, she's all that sort of. I don't know if it started this, but it sort of kicked off a run of these teen movies in the late 90s, early aughts that you don't see anymore. And so this is an important film in film history, I believe.

[Millie de Chirico]

How old were you at 99? You were a little.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was 11 years old.

[Millie de Chirico]

Was it a kind of thing? Where would you watch a movie like she's all that and be like, I cannot wait to go to high school. It's gonna be so fun.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Cause like, when you're 11, you're like, well, a junior in high school is essentially like an adult. Like, they seem so old. And when this came out, I don't even remember the first time I watched it. But, you know, I was such an avid Viewer, even at 11 years old, of MTV, MTV, spring break, the Real World. So, I mean, I was totally entranced by she's all that. I remember a kid in my class asked a girl out and he asked her to go see this movie. And in the note asking her out, he said, do you want to go see? She's all that? Because I think you're all that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God, I'd marry him. Who is he?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I don't know if she said yes. I can't remember that much, but that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Would have worked on me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Also, it was a big deal. Rachel Lee Cook, Minneapolis girl. I was going to swear.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, so any stories of her in your hood from back in the day?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, she went to South High School, which my daughter could go to South High School. We're pretty close to there, so that's kind of cool. And she and Josh Hartnett were kind of coming up the ranks at the same time. They went to the same high school, and so they were both kind of, like, blowing up at the same time. So I kind of associate those two together and. But no, I don't have anything else besides that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, it's so interesting. We both have hometown ties to. She's all that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have more to say about Rachel Leigh Cook and her career.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

But maybe I should do. Should I do a synopsis for this one? I was gonna say this would be a good time.

[Millie de Chirico]

You better. You better.

[Casey O'Brien]

This one is, I found, easier to do a synopsis of than David Cronenberg's the Shrouds.

[Millie de Chirico]

So you don't say.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right. This movie is about Zack Seiler, played by Freddie Prinze Jr. He's the most athletic, most popular, best looking, smartest, and most. Did I already say popular? He's the most popular person in the school. Okay. He's class president also. He's like, perfect. Okay. After he returns home from spring break, his girlfriend took a separate spring break to Mexico. I believe he finds out that his girlfriend Taylor, played by Jodi Lynn o', Keefe, kind of fell in with the MTV Spring Break crew and is now dating a former member of the Real World, played by Matthew Lillard. I think he was supposed to be kind of like the Puck character, you know?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Analog for this. So, you know, Zach's down a little bit, but he needs to pump himself up. So he starts walking around the school and talking shit. And he makes a bet with his pal Dean, played by Paul Walker, RIP He's. He makes a bet with him that he's like, I'm so popular that I could take any girl in this high school and make her prom queen. And so Dean's like, is that a bet? I get to pick the girl that you are going to turn into a prom queen. And he picks. Oh, my God. He picks Lainey Boggs, played by Rachel Leigh Cook. She's A grouchy, nerdy, poor art freak. And how could she ever become prom queen, you know? So Zack sets out to woo Lainey, and she's not too keen on that. And so he's finding it very challenging. But the thing that's most challenging, he's developing feelings for Laney, and she starts falling for him, too. But what will happen if she finds out about this little bet? I don't know. She's all that. It is kind of Pygmalion slash My Fair lady plot.

[Millie de Chirico]

It is.

[Casey O'Brien]

So that is the synopsis of the movie. Oh, did anything jump out to you?

[Millie de Chirico]

My God, dude. What didn't jump out to me, truly. Like I said at the top, I was. I was convinced I'd seen this movie in full in 99. And it's somewhere in the region of 99, maybe, like, 2000. But I was also a total in 99 because I was, like, 20 years old. So I was basically watching early Robert Bresson movies and being, like, very wax poetic about them. Sure, of course. But I was also the weirdest part about this, too, like, because I actually see this happening. I see this happening a lot where when it comes to, like, teen stuff, I always feel like college kids have this, like, weird space to appreciate, like, teen culture because they're.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think that's true.

[Millie de Chirico]

They're kind of doing it ironically. You know what I mean?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it's kind of like, oh, my God, we're so much older than that. It's, like, kind of funny that we like, like, this teen stuff, even though they're, like, essentially children as well.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Oh, I know. Because also in the early 2000s, late 90s, early 2000s, when I was in college, I was full fully into, like, NSync. It was weird. It was like I was into, like. There was, like, two things that I was kind of into. When I was in my 20s, early, very early 20s in college, I was sort of into, like, heavy metal from the late 80s. So, like, that was stuff that I remember from my early childhood. So. And it was. They were having. There was, like, a resurgence of it kind of happening at the time. I think it was because there was a lot of suddenly, like, a lot of humor around mullets. Do you remember this at all?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. So mullets were kind of back and, like, dirt bag culture. Like Joe Dirt type of. I say Joe Dirt.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know what I mean? It was, like, kind of this, like, weird. And I don't know who ushered it in. Maybe it was Kid Rock. I don't know who did it, unfortunately.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like it's still lingering to this day.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. So it was like the trucker hats.

[Casey O'Brien]

With mullets, the Ashton Kutcher trucker hat kind of thing. Like, kind of cosplaying trailer trash.

[Millie de Chirico]

Trailer trash. Like Joe Dirt. A lot of white men's undershirts that are used to be called something terrible but are not.

[Casey O'Brien]

And unfortunately, I still automatically refer to them that way because that was just what everybody called them.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's exactly what everybody called them. And yeah, I'm with you. And so I was kind of into that scene, but then I was also kind of weirdly into the whole, like, Jive Records, Britney Spears. We talked about this. When we did talk about Crossroads, I went and saw NSYNC and the no Strings Attached tour. Even though I was sort of like, oh, like, I'm too based or whatever to like pop music. But I was working in the music industry. I was around all this music all the time. And then I just sort of loved the whole, like, total Requests Live, MTV world.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Oh, my God. I watched TRL every single day. And I would race home to be like, who's number one? Who's the number one music video?

[Millie de Chirico]

I have been to TRL twice. Did I tell you this?

[Casey O'Brien]

Whoa. No.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I was actually on an episode of trl. I got.

[Casey O'Brien]

Shut the up. Did you touch Carson Daly?

[Millie de Chirico]

Did I touch him? Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. I was like. He was holding my hand, being like, what's the number one video of the week, Millie to Cherico from Atlanta, Georgia.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I did get to announce the number one video of the week.

[Casey O'Brien]

And Millie, I can't believe you've never told me this.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm furious and I feel lied to.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is amazing.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you very much.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is there video of this? Do you have it on a VHS tape somewhere?

[Millie de Chirico]

See, the funny thing is, is that somebody that we were in the show with, who I later ended up working at TCM with. This is the craziest story. We met when I was with my friend April Richardson when we were in line to get into trl, we started talking to this, like, brother and S, who were also from Atlanta, and we were like, that's how weird is that? You guys are from Atlanta. Anyway, it ended up being this girl that I worked with at TCM many years after the fact, which is so crazy. She apparently has a copy of it.

[Casey O'Brien]

On vhs because my head is spinning.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

You need to get that Tape.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know I gotta ask her for the tape. I forgot to ask her for it for a long time. Even though that's kind of the weirdest way of knowing somebody. But anyway, so there is video evidence of it. But there it was basically like, I got to announce the number one video for the week. And it was.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wait, wait, can you. Do you remember the date you were there?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I definitely know the song. I definitely know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, yeah, I just wanted to kind of guess, if I could guess.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, there was a band that I had. I've just mentioned.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, so it was in sync.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And what year was this?

[Millie de Chirico]

It was 2002, 000.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was so that I. That feels like. I think that was the no Strings Attached era.

[Millie de Chirico]

It totally was.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I'm just trying to think of the title of the song.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's gotta.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's Gonna be Me. It's gonna be Me. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Was that. Was that it?

[Millie de Chirico]

That was it.

[Casey O'Brien]

What a time to be there.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know, it's. That's pretty cool. It's a little. A little feather in my shitty little cap.

[Casey O'Brien]

But isn't it funny, though, that it was like, the main bands that were like, number one or were on TRL were like the pop bands like Backstreet Boys, NSync, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, and then also nu metal music, Limp Bizkit and Korn. Like, it's just so weird that those two, like, regimes are, like, fighting for the number one spot on trl.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And that's the thing is that. That's why I always say that this era was a low point for feminism just generally because you had this kind of like, aggressive male contingent mix with Eminem.

[Casey O'Brien]

You could almost put in there. And Kid Rock, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

You could put those, like, Girls Gone Wild, like the sort of waning days of the, like, celebrity porns that were coming out, you know, that kind of thing. You've got this kind of, like, aggress, a male aggression contingent mixed with this teenage girl or teeny bopper contingent. It was so fucking fucked up. And I've lived the tale and I'm like, I'm telling you, it was terrible. And yeah, I mean, I was in college. I was a shithead. Everything I did was, you know, edge Lordy. And, you know, everything was done ironically for a joke. So it was not a. Not a great time, but it was also a fun time in terms of. Yeah. Just the ridiculousness of everything. And so the thing about watching she's all that is that. That definitely felt like it was part. And part of this whole era. This movie is. Anyway. But then it was also like this. This trailer played so much that it's almost like you've probably not even seen the entire film. But you feel like you've seen the entire movie because the trailer was so out there. Like, I mean, I can't even tell you. Except she didn't say the cuss word. But I remember when the trailer played, and it was like, am I a bet? Am I a stupid bet? Yeah, we'll play stupid with cuss word. But it's like that thing of.

[Casey O'Brien]

And we don't swear on this podcast, so Millie would never say it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, never. This is a very Catholic.

[Casey O'Brien]

Pure, very Catholic.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I. That's the thing is that even though I hadn't seen it and felt like I had, I was like, I know all these beats of the film. Which is to say maybe it isn't an amazing film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Not a perfect film.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's not perfect, actually. I think there's a lot. The pacing of it is interesting. It feels, at times, so phoned in. But then there are these moments where it feels kind of authentically sensitive. I don't know if you feel that way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, yeah, no, I. 100%. Well, I wrote down. I'm just looking over our kind of joint notes here. Well, number one, there's this.

[Millie de Chirico]

What?

[Casey O'Brien]

I wrote an interminable pube pizza scene. I was like. This scene felt like it was 25 minutes long. I was like. It felt like the movie had slowed to a crawl. And I was like, what are we doing here? And so that felt very. And very. You know, that's the scene where. Yeah, explain Freddie Prince Jr. So, you know, it's funny. Kieran Culkin's in this movie, and he plays Rachel Leigh Cook's little brother. And Freddie Prinze Jr. Is kind of looking out for him from bullies. And these two bullies start, like, showing him a porno magazine. And then one of them, who's the guy who played the Sherminator in American Pie, reaches into his pants, pulls out some pubes and puts it on his pizza. And then Freddie Prinze Jr. Sees all this, and he makes the two guys eat the pizza. But the pacing of that slow, it's like, hey, you. You eat that pizza. No, I don't want to eat it. He eats it. The other guy's like, huh, that sucks. He's like, okay, now your turn. You're gonna eat the pizza. Oh, I don't want to. You're gonna eat It I'm like, this is so insane. This could have been cut down. I don't know. It just felt like. So the pacing was weird there and. But then like you said, there were some like really emotional scenes. I mean, the scene where Rachel Leigh Cook says, like, am I a fucking bet? I was like, I was like taken aback. I was touched and I was feeling things, you know, so it is a bizarre movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

And to that point, like I was reading in my research, my. She's all that search is in that scene in particular. Apparently Freddie Prinze Jr. Was really emotional. Like as an actor, he was really in his feelings during that part. And how basically everybody on set was like, holy shit. Like, he's amazing. Like, wow. They were like really blown away by I guess, his sensitivity in that moment. And then when you watch it, you're like, oh yeah, he's like really upset by this. And it just really. I think that was the thing is that it was like there'd be these like tiny moments, I think between him and Rachel Leigh Cook specifically. And I would say also Kevin Pollock, which is this whole story. Kevin Pollock plays her father. There were actually well acted and very, I don't know, very kind of tender and sensitive. It kind of reminded me more of like an indie movie in some of these performances. But for the most, the rest of it though was so like, I hate to say it, a little phoned in teenage comedy.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, watching this, I was like, I feel like Both Freddie Prinze Jr. I was impressed by him and Rachel Leigh Cook. I thought they were both really good leads of this movie. And I kind of was like, why didn't they have bigger careers, I don't know. Or like more evolved careers, I guess. Like, I just feel like Rachel Leigh Cook, we didn't see her in that much after Josie and the Pussycats.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, I don't know, maybe because they're too cool. Just like sometimes I'm like, I don't know, maybe some, some actors are just, you know, like, I know I'm like a fairly decent down to earth person and I don't need to be in a ton of movies and I just kind of do what I want, when I want type of thing. I mean, Rachel Lee Cook was also a model too, I think. So maybe she's just like it. I don't want to be in a movie. I just want to do other things.

[Casey O'Brien]

But she, I thought she was great. I mean, she has kind of an edge to her that I liked and I kind of was Like, I could have seen her in more, like, indie films. It felt like she should have been in more, like, I don't know, better, artsier films, but she never got there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I kind of feel that way about Freddie Prinze Jr. As well. I feel like both of them in some strange parallel universe, their characters probably could have been in the indie rom com or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But that the rest of the movie just happened. They were, like, placed into, like, a dumber movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's like they're like. She plays, like, the Rachel Leigh Cook character Lainey Laney Boggs, who apparently was named after Winona Ryder's character in Reality Bites, which I think is.

[Casey O'Brien]

She was named after two Winona Ryder characters. Kim Boggs from Edward Scissorhands and Lainey Pierce from Reality Bites. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and it is a good comp, I guess. Like, Winona is probably, like, an inspiration for this type of character for sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Also born in Minnesota.

[Millie de Chirico]

Hey, look at you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Here we go.

[Millie de Chirico]

So she plays this political, artsy, intelligent nerd in her high school. Right. She's kind of a mix between Jessie Spano. It's like Jesse Spano from Saved by the Bell meets Ally Sheedy from the Breakfast Club. Yeah. And she has this little BFF who is maybe like a gay coded character. Tbd.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was sort of disappointed when it turned out he was straight at the end.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know, but that was his little ducky moment with him and Anna Paquin, which I thought was great. He got to have a little prom romance at the end of the day. But, you know, obviously she's from a completely different universe than the Freddie Prinze, you know, man on campus character. Right. And there were times where, you know, she was just sort of really intense in a way that felt like maybe this is like, I'm glad you're bringing a little bit of gravitas to this ridiculous teen movie, but you might be, like, too good for the movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I think, you know, something I kind of wanted to talk about. I'm gonna touch upon that. But something I wanted to. This sort of leads into is like, the whole conceit of the movie, which is mocked often that Rachel Lee Cook is supposed to be somehow undesirable.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Prior to her transformation.

[Millie de Chirico]

Correct.

[Casey O'Brien]

Which is, like, ridiculous. Cause, like, she's so stunning.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And cute. So I guess I was like, what? What did you think? I mean, not another teen movie is basically making fun of that whole concept that, like, whole movie sort of structured around that, like, making fun of this movie. But what did you think about, like, watching it play out in the movie despite it being ridiculous?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I mean, I was like, if she went to my high school, she'd be having sex before any of these jocks, period. Because guess what? There was this whole other underworld of nerds like her that were getting laid on the regs.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

She was hot. Like, and the bathing suit scene is absolute proof of that. I was like, first of all, the fact that she went to the beach with Zach was already, like, a complete betrayal to that character. That character would have never gone to the beach. Probably would have owned a bathing suit, let alone.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But she did. And then, because you ultimately have to have a scene where the nerd, like, Clark Kent becomes Superman, you gotta, like, take the glasses off. You gotta, like, get her in something skimpy and realize she has huge boobs.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Well, they do say this is a quote from the movie. Check out the bobos on Super Freak.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think that was. Was uttered by Mr. Paul Walker. Rest in peace.

[Casey O'Brien]

I believe so.

[Millie de Chirico]

The bobos. Gotta love a teenage boy. But that. That whole reveal to me was basically like, ain't no way she would have been a virgin. Ain't no way she would have been a nerd. She was hot. She was hot. And, I mean, I think there's actually been interviews with, you know, Rachel Leigh Cook and some of the people that made the film that was like, we know she was too hot to be this character, but that was the vibe in 99 is that you had to put a hot lady as a nerd in a movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. But in defense, slightly of the movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

I thought that it was smart that they made her kind of a grouch.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And, like, a louder grout. Like, she was not a. She was not, like, meek at all. She's, like, loud and in your face. And I feel like they made her kind of unpleasant, which I was kind of, like, in a good way. But I was like. I feel like that was. That made it work just enough.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

For me to, like, 100.

[Millie de Chirico]

They made her intense, which is, like, intense is scary to teenage boys. They don't want to deal with any woman who has. Who isn't melting, as I just learned.

[Casey O'Brien]

Exactly.

[Millie de Chirico]

There's actually, like, a weird little speech that Freddie Prinze Jr says to Paul Walker in the movie when he's like, all right, let's pick out the ugliest, nerdiest, boboless fucking chick in this high school for you to make into a swan. And he. They're, like, picking Girls out and like, everybody's. And that whole sequence is actually really fascinating to me. It's not that long, but. But Basically, Freddie Prinze Jr. Is like, you know what? Listen, fat I can deal with. I can deal with, like, ugly. But if you're like, unapproachable and intense, that's too, like, a bridge too far.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I kind of thought about that a lot, actually, and I was like, is that true? Can you be extremely hot? But if you're intense and unapproachable, is it a No? I. I still think guys are trying to slide. I don't know. That's just me.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think so too. But if it's at, like a contained environment, like a high school where they're like, oh, we try. People have tried. And it's a no go, you could see how she could be maybe an outcast.

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Kind of. I mean, I barely, Barely, barely. But, like, it was like, enough to make it not a problem for me. I guess something I was like at the end. The thing I had more of a problem with at the end. I was like, this concept is so mean that they would do this bet to, like, take her to. That she could win prom queen. That I just feel like she forgave too quickly at the end. I guess that was my biggest problem. I was like, this seems almost insurmountable to forgiveness, like, for her to forgive him.

[Millie de Chirico]

I would move schools if somebody bet. If I was like, if I was the victim of a bet between two popular boys, I would probably be like, in inpatient therapy somewhere for 30 days.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then move schools.

[Casey O'Brien]

I would, like, join a nunnery.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

I. I think it's like. It's like, so awful. It's like, almost too awful to, like, come back from. So that was my. That was my biggest, my biggest issue with the, the, the, the movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

I agree. And I don't know. To me, there is a lot of 90s coded things happening in this film besides the fact that the Real World, slash Road Rules slash MTV Spring Break is a huge storyline in this film. But just how many, how many famous people are in this movie? Did you realize?

[Casey O'Brien]

It's crazy. It was really, like, so insane. And, like, we both wrote down Lil Kim as a note, but she is like. I was like, oh, my God, Lil Kim's in this movie. And I feel like I've seen this movie recently. I didn't remember she was in it, but she has, like, two lines and she's like, in the background of some scenes But I was like, why is she even in the. It's like a thankless role.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, you've got, of course, Freddie Prinze Jr. Rachel Leigh Cook as the principals, but then you have Matthew Lillard, Paul Walker, Kieran Culkin, as you mentioned. Kevin Pollock plays Rachel Leigh Cook's father, Usher. Obviously Usher, the star of the show.

[Casey O'Brien]

Star of the show, yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Lil Kim, first movie role. I didn't even realize that she had been, again, in more than one movie or any movie. Then it's like, Anna Paquin plays Zach's sister, Gabrielle Union. Dulay Hill. I mean, Clay Duvall is in this movie. Alexis Arquette is in this movie. Apparently, Milo Ventimiglia is in this movie, even though I don't remember seeing him at all.

[Casey O'Brien]

I saw him for, like, two seconds. He's one of these soccer players that comes over to clean Rachel Leah. Rachel Leigh Cook's house.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. And then it was like, the craziest one, the craziest kind of walk on cameo, has no lines, is Sarah Michelle Geller, who's in the movie for, like, two seconds.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you know that's the same high school that they shot Buffy the Vampire Slayer at?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, yeah. Isn't it, like, Torrance High School or something?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And obviously she's married to Freddie Prinze Jr. Now, so maybe they were dating at the time. I can't remember. But yeah, very funny.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I'm like, it's crazy because there's just little people peppered into this film all over the place. I mean, one of the guys from Styles of Beyond, this like. Like, underground hip hop group, is in the film rapping.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was gonna say he has to be an actual rapper because he was good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think that they're the ones that utter the titular phrase, she's all that.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's all that. Wow. But that kind of speaks to this time period of this huge group of young actors that were really big at the time, that it's almost like this is a universe where people are just kind of like. Like, Sarah Michelle Geller is just like, walking through, you know, is just. And it just sort of speaks to how many famous young people there were at the time making movies. You know, it. That in and of itself is almost its own cinematic universe.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, absolutely. All right, let's discuss, as we have to discuss with these types of films, especially in this era, the soundtrack for the she's all that. This apparently was the movie that made the song Kiss Me By Sixpence none the Richer, a chart topping bop.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

What are your thoughts about this tune?

[Casey O'Brien]

This tune? I started going to dances when this song was big. So this was a big part of my middle school slow dance experience. I remember slow dancing with girls in like seventh grade to this song. So that's sort of my main memory of it.

[Millie de Chirico]

So I will admit something I've never admitted to anybody before, which is that when this song came on the scene, I downloaded it from Napster.

[Casey O'Brien]

It took 17 hours probably.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it really did. It took like a couple days. Many, many different seeds. I listened to it secretly on my first. No, I would say probably the second or third generation iPod.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

This is again a time where I was listening alternately to NSYNC and the Poison album. Look what the cat dragged in. And then I was secretly listening to Sixpence none the Richer's Kiss Me so that. And I was doing in secret so that none of my roommates or my friends would make fun of me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And like, if they like try to like look at your screen, would you like switch to like pavements like slanted and enchanted or something?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, of course. Like, this is all so stupid. Like I'm like, why would I give a about any of this now? Like I'm looking at this as a 46 year old woman being like, oh, I was like secretly listening to Sixpence none the Richers Kiss Me while telling people. Like while I was wearing a Jade Tree record shirt and listening to like Yola Tango. Like I was like, oh, you know, like I'm super cool. And then like the levels of hiding that I was doing in this era, like pretending to not like in sync. But she's really liking nsync straight up telling lies about my investment in the 6pence none the Richer song. It's just, it feels freeing to be old.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm so glad. Yeah, because you were probably like, no, no, no. I was listening to Butthole Surfers, Locust, Abortion Technician. I wasn't listening to Sixpence none the R.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I was like, of course I'll go with you to see Lucio Fulci's the Beyond. Meanwhile I'm like in with like my headphones and like that on the moon lit floor. Even though that video was very Jean Luc Godard. Right. Or like it was like a Truffaut movie or something. I don't know. It was something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Was it? I see. I get, I get that video. And Love me Mick. Love fool. Love me, love me, say that you love me Song kind of mixed up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, there's a little bit. There's actually, I think there's more than one video. One of them seems very French new wave. And then there's another one that feels like Midsummer Night's Dream, except Freddie Prince Jr's face is.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is kind of floating around in there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that. Yeah, huge. That was a huge hit.

[Millie de Chirico]

Huge hit.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know, they don't really have one hit wonders like they used to. This was sort of the time of the one hit wonder, I feel like.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah, that's because they, you know, were promoting singles like this on MTV and TRL and stuff. Speaking of which, now there was no bones about this at all. I will tell you, in 99, you might not have been able to find a bigger Fat Boy Slim fan than your girl Millie de Chero.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that right? Did you have. Did you have to hide that love or were you comfortable sharing that with the public?

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I. I wasn't. I wasn't. I was. But for the most part, yes, I was very much on board with Fat Boy Slim, who.

[Casey O'Brien]

He had some great songs.

[Millie de Chirico]

So funny to say I was a Fat Boy Slim fan, but I was. I mean, first of all, a lot of people know this who are actually cool and actually in, you know, like a 80s music state of mind. But, you know, Fat Boy Slim, AKA Norman Cook, was the bass player for a band called the House Martins, who are jangly pop, 80s royalty. And I was obsessed with the House Martins when I was in college. And so when I was like, holy fucking shit. Norman Cook from the House Martins is Fat Boy Slim. And now he's doing all these damn jams going off, played at parties. I mean, listen, I love the first. Actually, the first three. I would say the first three Fat Boy Slim albums are really good.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right.

[Millie de Chirico]

And this was like a huge era for dance music anyway. I mean, this is like the late 90s. It was like, yeah, if you ain't fucking with Astral Works in the late 90s, then you were a problem. But there was the whole dance sequence.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, let's talk about that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, it was set to the Rockefeller Skank by Fat Boy Slim. And immediately when I saw that, I was like, oh, I remember this like crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure. Yeah, it's. Well, like, I think maybe you mentioned this already, but the director of this movie is a dance choreographer, and you kind of mentioned that the dance sequence is a little separate stylistically maybe from the rest of the movie because a bunch of high school student students break out into Wonderfully choreographed dance to Rockefeller.

[Millie de Chirico]

Skank, quote, unquote, high school students. What it really felt like was that suddenly a bunch of people in their 20s decided to crash a high school prom and start doing a dance to a Fatboy Slim song. That is what seemed like it happened in the film.

[Casey O'Brien]

And you said they had to bring Usher back in because Usher is like, all right, dance club, why don't you do that dance that I taught you? And I actually thought this is a pretty good fix because, you know, you. I don't know. That worked for me. I was fine with that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it wasn't. Listen, I thought the. The actual dance sequence was great.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

It didn't really feature many of the. The principal actors in the film.

[Casey O'Brien]

None, actually. I would say Rachel Leigh Cook, you see her kind of dancing, sort of doing some of the dance they're doing, but it's basically these. Yeah, other. These other people coming in to do this choreographed dance.

[Millie de Chirico]

But there was a part.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was fun.

[Millie de Chirico]

There was a part where Jody Lynn o', Keefe, who plays the Taylor Vaughn, the popular girl character, does this, like, seductive finger licking down the cleavage move that I remember from the trailer, like crazy. And. And so that came. The memories of her doing that came flooding back. But, like, yeah, it was. It did feel like. It's like, oh, let's tuck in this, you know, choreographed dance sequence a la Dirty Dancing or something. We'll bring in a bunch of professional dancers who will pretend are just the other students in the high school. And then we'll throw Usher back in there where he's doing a pop and lock. And basically, like, has taught all these people effectively how to do this dance.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. But, you know, there's other, like. Kind of like. I don't know if you'd say dream sequences, but sort of, like fantasy sequences. This is sort of stylistically not consistent because there's, like, a part where, like, Freddie Prinze Jr. Imagines he's on the Real World with Matthew Lillard.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's, like, other fan sort of fantasy sequences, but they don't quite work and they're not consistent. And then they had this dance sequence at the end. So it is a little bit of a. A mess of a movie, I suppose.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it's a little messy, a little chaotic.

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't. I didn't care, though. I was having fun.

[Millie de Chirico]

You were just kicking back, being like, this is cool. This is cool for me. I'm not gonna.

[Casey O'Brien]

This is also a time where it wasn't really like, thought of as, like a totally bad thing for a high school student to be dating a grown man who was on the Real World. Sure. That wasn't really, like, again, seen as.

[Millie de Chirico]

That problematic again, the late 90s, early 2000s. One fact, and maybe this. I don't know if you have anything more substantial to say.

[Casey O'Brien]

Nothing else to say.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. One fact about this movie that I think is actually kind of funny is that there was controversy for a while much later, like many years after this movie came out, that M. Night Shyamala was the ghostwriter for this film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. He claims that at first they were like, he did touch ups, but then M. Night Shyamalan is like, actually, I ghost wrote it. And then the screen, the credited screenwriter is like, no, you didn't.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, he did apparently write the am I a bet, am I a fucking bet? Line.

[Casey O'Brien]

And that's arguably the best line in the movie. I mean, it was shocking to hear that F bomb dropped in there for a PG13 movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, I think you're how many. You're allowed a couple F bombs at PG13, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

I think it's just one.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, really?

[Casey O'Brien]

And it was used very well in this one.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, very judiciously. What else to say about she's all that from 1999? I mean, again, I think the comedy of calling this an Usher film.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's a joke, people. Lighten up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Geez, what are you, like, taking this seriously? You're so sweet. Isn't that what she kept?

[Casey O'Brien]

She keeps saying, they say it several times. Oh, you really thought that? That's so sweet. Like, four different characters say that to each other. It's a runner.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's a humiliating runner throughout this entire film.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have one last question for you and we can wrap this up. Have you ever been to an experimental theater show?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. Yes, I have. In la, actually.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Have you?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, I have. And I think the funny thing is, like, I've been to a few and like, whenever you make fun of, like, experimental theater like they do in this movie, I'm like, this is. This is exactly what it's like.

[Millie de Chirico]

It is ridiculous. Well, actually, can I scope out a little bit further and ask you, did you go to your promise?

[Casey O'Brien]

So I was kind of hoping you wouldn't ask me this question because I'm embarrassed to say the answer. And it's not the kind of embarrassed you think it is. I went to prom all four years of high school. I was asked to prom my freshman year by a junior girl that had a crush on Me. Wow. And then my sophomore year, I was dating a girl who was a junior, so she asked me. And then my junior and senior year, I just went normally. So I went to prom a lot.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow. So you were kind of popular and.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I was not. I. It's, it's.

[Millie de Chirico]

What are the rules? What are these rules?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, anyone can go to prom, you know, like. But like the girl who invited me when I was a freshman, I would not say we were in theater together, you know, we were. And same with my girlfriend my sophomore year of high school. And then junior and senior year, I did ask girls to go to the prom, but I would not say I was popular. In fact, I would say I had hardly any friends at all. But I was. High school was challenging. So that's why it's weird to say I went to prom all four years because I don't feel like it is reflective of my actual high school experience.

[Millie de Chirico]

See, I think when I was in high school, we were more or less still operating under the John Hughesian rules of high school, which meant that if you were a nerd or into art or into music, or you basically were anything other than James Spader in Pretty in Pink, you didn't date, you did not go to proms, you did not go to football games, you did not play sports, you did not like do any of the things that all these other people did. And it was a very like, hard line in the sand. And I feel like that started to get really fuzzy as the 90s rolled on because I would argue the proliferation of alternative music, which made being an outcast now mean nothing. So all the lines got all loosey goosey. And now effectively you could be the biggest loser of her high school and get asked to prom every single year by someone.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, you just get asked by another loser, you know, but you, you're allowed entry into the prom where it seems like before there was an unspoken rule that you wouldn't go to prom or something.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Even though there was also this in my scenario. I did go to my senior prom, however, I went with a bunch of like, freaks. Like, I went with my punk rock friends and my gay friends who were basically pretending to go with, you know, I don't know, opposite gender people in order to be able to go to prom with their, you know, whomever the girlfriends or boyfriends. It was a total like, fuck you, prom experience. And we, when we got to the prom, we stayed for literally five minutes and then we just went back to my parents house and drank all night long. But it was like. That was like the only way I would have gone to prom in when my high school years is to be, like, anti prom. Right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it's funny because I feel like now there is none of that. Like, I. I feel like this. The prom is available to all, which I suppose is progress, but back in.

[Casey O'Brien]

The day, I don't even know if it's progress, but it's. It's available to you now or something.

[Oregon Home Care Jobs Advertiser]

Sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

You can just be a fucking loser at prom instead of at home.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, anyway, I just had to ask those questions because, you know, we're talking about this movie, and I guess.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's important.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, everybody, we're back for our Area of expertise segment. My area of expertise. And we've got a wonderful guest today, an old friend, a dear friend of mine, film critic for the Tribune News Service, Katie Walsh. Hi, Katie. Thank you for joining us today.

[Katie Walsh]

Thank you so much for having me. It's a thrill to be here and to be talking movies with you on the mic once again.

[Casey O'Brien]

Once again. You were a guest on Fart House.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was.

[Casey O'Brien]

You were a guest on Maximum Film, the show I used to produce. And then also you took over hosting duties for a period of time on a show I produced called Switchblade, played Sisters. And that was when we first kind of got to work together.

[Katie Walsh]

That was. Yeah, that was when we first worked together back in the studio, when we.

[Casey O'Brien]

Were like, in the studio. It is funny. That was a time you. You would never. You would never record a podcast over zoom back then. That would be just a sin. And now it's all that's ever done. So it's very funny. Yeah. The first show. I remember the first episode you co. You. You took over hosting duties on Switchblade Sisters was Adrienne Barbeau.

[Katie Walsh]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Talking about. Is it Three Days of the Condor?

[Katie Walsh]

We did talk about Three Days of the Condor, Yeah. And I was terrified.

[Casey O'Brien]

It was a great episode. And I remember Adrienne Barbeau actually called my home phone and we chatted for a while. So that was a thrill. Yeah. But anyways, we have you on today. We could talk about so many things, right?

[Katie Walsh]

We could.

[Casey O'Brien]

We could talk about so many things, but one of the areas of expertise that you brought up, which I found very titillating, was unhappy rich people on vacation. And you even sent a letterbox list. Now, is this a public list? Can people find this on letterboxd? Oh, yeah.

[Katie Walsh]

It is a public list. One of my passions is making really highly specific letterbox lists. I haven't made one in a while, but every now and then inspiration strike. But this is just. I would say. I don't know if this is my area of expertise. It is an area of enthusiasm for me.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's all we require.

[Katie Walsh]

It is a subgenre of movies that just. It always hits for me. I also just think it's like a cheat code for filmmakers because if they're rich people and they're on vacation, you can be in a beautiful location and it's like, wouldn't you rather see someone break up against, like, a stunning vista? Or, like, you know, just like, gives you, like, extra beauty and cinematic qualities or, like, potential. And you also have, like, inherent conflict because you have, you know, people who maybe are, you know, dealing with things prior to going on vacation, and then suddenly they're in this new setting, and so it's like they're interacting with new people. Their real issues are coming to light in a way that I. I think just, like, it's like, inherent conflict and, like, inherent beauty are, like, baked into this subgenre. So, like, this is just the kind of thing that I will always enjoy watching. It's also basically just White Lotus.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was just gonna say, like, I think that's one of the reasons that White Lotus works so well on all of the points you're hitting upon. You know, just like the inherent conflict. And I also think there's something true to that in real life, like, oh, the fights you get in with your partner and other family members on vacation. Some of the worst fights you'll ever have in your life. You know, it's interesting because it's a wide ranging genre.

[Millie de Chirico]

It is.

[Casey O'Brien]

It encapsulates, you know, silly comedies.

[Katie Walsh]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, I would include Sex and the City 2, which is on this list.

[Katie Walsh]

That was. So I requested. I did solicitations on Blue sky the other day. I was like, what else would you put on this list? And someone suggested Sex and the City, too. And I was like, that's deranged and I love it. But I left it on there because I do think it's funny. Yeah. So you can have, like, a silly comedy. You can have a horror movie. Like, someone suggested Speak no Evil, which I don't know if you've seen that film. There's two.

[Casey O'Brien]

I have not. Have you seen that, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

I haven't, no.

[Katie Walsh]

The original is Danish or something.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Katie Walsh]

But then there's the remake that is. With James McAvoy. I knew it was a James.

[Casey O'Brien]

James McAvoy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Katie Walsh]

That came out this year. Last year.

[Casey O'Brien]

This year. Yeah.

[Katie Walsh]

I. I put the original on there. But the reason why this works is because. So I think that they're the. The key quality to this is that the people need to already have some problem going on when they get to the vacation.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, yeah, that's very true.

[Katie Walsh]

Because, like, someone else had suggested the Julia Roberts Netflix movie Leave the World behind, which I was like, I think they're, like, pretty okay. And then bad stuff happens when they get there. It's like, sure, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So.

[Katie Walsh]

So I. It's, like, kind of hard to pin down a little bit. But the reason why I put Speak no Evil on is because the guy is, like, already unhappy, and that is what sparks him to, like, go on this absolutely misguided trip to go visit these random people that he. Basically, it starts with. He's on vacation with his wife and his. In, like, Italy or something, and they meet this other couple, and this other couple's like, oh, my God, we're so cool. Like, come hang out with us. And then they invite them to come visit them. And then the guy's, like, so unhappy, and he has no friends that he's like, oh, yeah, let's go visit them. And then they go visit them, and horrible, horrible things happen. So it is, like, a really terrifying horror film. But, like, this. What sparks him to go do this is already his, like, inherent unhappiness.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. They have to carry there. There has to be some baggage entering into the vacation.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think a lot of these two, even if they're not horror movies, there is sort of a. I don't know if scary element, because people are so out of their comfort zone. They're not at home. They're. There's someplace else where the rules are different and they have no control over their surroundings anymore. You know, like, even, like. Like the Darjeeling Limited, which is on the list, that's not a scary movie, obviously, but there is some sort of level of, like, things are out of control and something could go really wrong.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, I think vacations are, like, that period. There's always an element of, like. I mean, have you ever gone on a vacation with your parents before?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. That's, like, this one of the scariest things I have ever. I went abroad with them. I went to, like, Italy with them, and I was, like, terrified for all of us at all times.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did anything bad happen when you're. You were.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I. We blew out a tire on the autostrada, and I was, like, absolutely terrified because everyone's going, like 150 miles an hour. My dad speaks Italian because he's Italian, thank God. Because if he hadn't, we would be in the middle of the Italian countryside with, like, no way to communicate. They actually, when they came to pick us up, we had a rental. So I called the rental company. I was like, we blew out a tire. They brought a tow truck. And then the tow truck driver made my mom and I sit in the car on the flatbed, which is illegal in America.

[Casey O'Brien]

Encouraged in Italy and illegal in America.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. Oh, I know. It was. We were like, this is some final destination. Like, if we die in Italy on this flatbed, then that's what. That's what's gonna happen. But, yeah, that's the thing is that, like, it's like, so unpredictable. And so if you're already unhappy and you're. Your marriage or your relationship is already, like, tenuous to begin with, and then you end up in a situation like something like that, that's a thriller, bare minimum, right?

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah, totally.

[Casey O'Brien]

What movies would you say, you know, kind of spot, you know, sparked this sort of connection where you're like, oh, there might be a list. There might be a letterboxed list I could put together based on these few, you know. Cause usually it kind of starts with like two or three movies where you're like, oh, I'm making connections between these two. What were the kind of impetus movies for this passion of yours?

[Katie Walsh]

So the actual inspiration was this movie, Frankie, which is on the list. It's an Iris ax movie from 2019 starring Isabel Huppert. And she plays a really famous French actress who's gathered her whole family in Portugal, and she's got a secret and she's gonna tell them something, and everyone can sort of feel the tension and they don't know what's going on with her. And there's like, she invites Marisa Tomei, who she wants to set up with her son. But then Marisa Tomei brings Greg Kinnear cause she's dating him. So there's these, like, weird sort of relationship things going on, and no one really knows why she's brought them all there. And it's just this very sort of quiet, beautiful, sort of lightly simmering tension. And I remember watching it and being like, oh, I just love this because they're in a beautiful location and there's all this inter familial drama going on. And it literally could be slowest vibe. And I would just drink it up.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely.

[Katie Walsh]

And then I think also I really do have a passion for, like, New England wedding movies. Margot at the wedding is on this list. Oh, I need to put Rachel getting married on this list.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Katie Walsh]

And there's this movie, Ceremony. I don't know if you guys have ever seen Ceremony. It's with Uma Thurman. Is Ceremony on here? Yes, it is. It's directed by Max Winkler, who is Henry Winkler's son. And Uma Thurman is, like, getting married to someone else, but Michael Angarano is, like, in love with her. So it's this. They're at this New England beach wedding, and there's this weird sort of unrequited crush tension happening. And I just remember seeing it. It's like, no one's seen this movie. I think it's, like, so delightful. So, yeah, I think it was, like, the combo of Frankie and then these weird wedding movies that I love watching. And so you just inspired me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Another one. Have you ever seen the Celebration by Thomas Vinterberg? Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Katie Walsh]

Great. That's a good one, actually. Okay, we're gonna put that on.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's a fucked up.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's very fucked up. I, like. This is, like, a working document. I love.

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. I'm loving this. I'm feeling. I'm. I'm getting inspired just, like, hearing all these movies, and it's just like, you have so many on here, and there's, like. It really is a fertile genre.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah. I got so many from the. The. My Blue Sky Friends one that I had overlooked. But I was obsessed that someone suggested, is this movie Dods? Have you guys seen Dodsworth?

[Millie de Chirico]

No, I just love Dodsworth.

[Katie Walsh]

I love Dodsworth.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Katie Walsh]

Do you want to talk about it, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. I mean, I. First of all, I have to say, like, for the record, I love the spread of the, like, the different movies on this list, because you have, like, older movies like Dodsworth on there. I mean, you've got, like, separate tables, which is another, like, great, great film about rich people on happy home vacation. And there's also, like, like, a lot of these movies on your list now that I'm going up and down it. A lot of them take place on boats, which I think is actually, like, extra chic when it comes to, you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Know, or an island even, like, islands.

[Katie Walsh]

And boats, like, being contained. I like. I think when you think about, like. Like, these older films, like Dodds Worth, like, I. I love those older classical Hollywood films where. Where it's like, oh, I'm gonna take an ocean liner cruise, and then, you know, every night they're getting super dressed up and then, like, meeting some random man in the, like, drinks, cocktail area. Yeah. And, like, I just. Those were. That. That's such a glamorous setting for me. But also, like, because they're confined on this ocean liner, they are, like, they keep running into the same people and they keep being stuck with each other or something. So, yeah, boats are a good setting for that.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think a big part of this genre, too, is, which is something I experience on vacation. Every single time I. Every time I go on vacation, especially when I was, like, a teenager, I would be like, I have a completely different personality. I am a different person now. Like, I am going to, like, be a completely different person. Nobody knows me here. I can kind of, like, be someone new here, you know, And. And I don't know if there's any movies on here that are specifically, like, about that concept, but there is a little bit of that. Like, even in, like, Lost in Translation, where it's like, you're away from who you are until you can be whoever you want to be or, like, even dark infinity pool in a darker sense. Like, these people are like. Like, oh, I can be, like a murderer, sex, insane person.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know?

[Katie Walsh]

Like, why not try the drug orgy?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, exactly.

[Katie Walsh]

But, yeah, I also think there. There's an element of, like, yeah, trying on something new, but also this idea of wherever you go, there you are. I think that there's, like, a lot of expectations that people have for trips or vacations or trying something new where it's like, oh, I have really high expectations for how this trip is going to be. And then it's not that. And it's disappointing.

[Millie de Chirico]

I absolutely love that Sex and the City two is on here. And I'll tell you why. Because I don't know if either of you have been watching the new season of. And just like that. That I am. I don't know if you've watched it at all.

[Katie Walsh]

I. Okay, I have been cursed by a witch to watch all of. And just like that, yes, I am doing it against my will. I do not enjoy the show, but I can't stop watching it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, it's like smoking cigarettes. I'm like, I can't believe I'm doing this. This is gross. But I kind of enjoy it. I don't know. I'm like, I can't totally. And it's like. And now my favorite thing to do is to go on TikTok and watch people make videos bashing the new season of Just like that. I'm like, oh, my God, I'm obsessed. But it's like, it's been on my brain and I now that I'm like, you've made the connection point that sex the City 2 is an unhappy rich people on vacation movie. And then also. And just also how ridiculous that movie is. The vacation on that. In that movie is ridiculous, where it's complete wish fulfillment bullshit. It's like, you know, whatever. Like, like walk into these, like, incredible, you know, hotels and have people, like, wait on them hand and foot. And then they just have all these, like, stupid adventures that are, like, sort of racist. And you're just like, what the is going on? And I just. I love that that's on this list. I just love it.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah, a shout out to the person who suggested that. I have to admit I've never seen this movie because I. But now I kind of want to watch it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, you have to.

[Casey O'Brien]

The rub on it was that it was like, this movie is racist. Like, you mentioned Millie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah. Like, and it has this. It has a very similar vibe to. Is it this. What is the Bridget Jones sequel that it also has this weird moment of, like.

[Katie Walsh]

Oh, Edge of Reason.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, Edge of Reason where, like, white ladies are trying to bond with, like, like the, like, women of the country that they. They've gone to when it's this weird, like, let me show you how American women live, you know? And you're like, what the is going on?

[Katie Walsh]

Or doesn't she end up in, like, a Thai prison in that one?

[Millie de Chirico]

And, like, I feel like very similarly, there's a moment in Sex in the City where the same thing is happening, like, literally, and I just am like, what is this right now?

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah, I need. I really need to watch it. It's like the smoking cigarettes thing. But I. I, like, I have such a fraugh with this franchise.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, me too.

[Katie Walsh]

Like, I. I've. I watched all of the series. I'm pretty sure it gave me brain damage. I watched the first movie. I hated the first movie so much, I refused to see the second movie. And now I have to watch this goddamn series that makes no sense.

[Millie de Chirico]

And listen, in the spirit of being a completist, you got to choke down that second movie just. Just to do it, because you will, like, watch free because you will want to scream. And I only watched it once. I only needed to watch it the one time.

[Katie Walsh]

But yeah, Yeah, I. I think I need to just, you know, really just take it in. Because the thing is, once I realized that. That Carrie Bradshaw is a villain and A horrible friend. Like, now that, like, it makes more sense to me.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, 100%. And like, that's like the one thing that I do anytime I get on TikTok and anybody there is any sex the city discourse at all. It's like, car's a villain. And it is really the funnest way to watch it now. Like, when you watch everything, you're like, oh, yeah, she's.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah, she's a monster. Like, I want Miranda to free herself from that friendship.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my gosh, that is so fun. But actually, now that I'm thinking about it, is Bridget Jones the Edge of Reason. Is that a vacation? That's a vacation movie, right? Or maybe that's a work trip. I don't know.

[Katie Walsh]

Maybe that's. Let's do some research. I can't. I can barely remember that one.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. Somebody weigh. Somebody weigh in and email us. We'll figure it out.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, Katie, are there any directors that come to mind that you feel like would really nail an unhappy rich per people on vacation movie?

[Katie Walsh]

Well, I think, like the two kings of this are Reuben Osland and Luca Guadagnino.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Reuben Oslin did. Most recently did Triangle of sadness, which is like. Like a perfect example of. Yes, things really go wrong on that vacation, I would say.

[Katie Walsh]

And he did force majeure, which. And yes, I was trying, like, there is like already marital tension, but it's like the. The avalanche like, reveals the. The tension in that film. But I think it counts. And I also put the American remake downhill.

[Casey O'Brien]

I saw that. I haven't seen the remake.

[Katie Walsh]

I had to. I had to review it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, and you said Luca Guadadinho is the king who did like, the bigger spot.

[Katie Walsh]

And also probably my favorite Guadagnino movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

And call me by your name is kind of essentially, it's like a. Yeah movie.

[Katie Walsh]

But you could even say bones and all as a vacation.

[Millie de Chirico]

It is true. It's a road trip movie. That's a good one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hey, they. They're in Minnesota for a big part of that. Yeah. And even like challengers and I am love. They feel so vac. They. They're. They're like vacation coded movies.

[Katie Walsh]

They are vacation.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like there's a freedom to them.

[Katie Walsh]

But yeah, queer I think would really count because the guy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Clear wood. Yeah. I haven't seen that. He.

[Katie Walsh]

Well, he's clearly like, wealthy and just living off of his family money in Mexico. Just having a time tying one on. But who could nail this? I need to think about this.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I think Nicole Holliff center could do a really good rich people on vacation movie.

[Katie Walsh]

That's a great call.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I also think Bong Joon Ho could do a good rich people on vacation movie just because he deals with class so much. And a lot of these unhappy rich people on vacation movies, there's an undercurrent of class commentary, you know, with all of this. So, yeah, I nominate those two.

[Katie Walsh]

I feel like maybe this is a little bit of a cheat because I just remembered another one to add to the list, but. Mia Hansen Love. Did you guys see Bergman Island?

[Casey O'Brien]

I did not see it.

[Katie Walsh]

It's like, about this filmmaker couple who go to this, this Swedish island where Ingmar Bergman lived and they have this whole festival and they're both trying to write something and like, they're kind of having dalliances and various things. But yeah. Mia Hansen Love. I think just because she kind of really gets like a certain tone and vibe that I think would really lend itself to this. I kind of like the ones that are, you know, obviously I love the high concept crazy ones, but I do love the ones that are kind of like, like slow and moody and like a Frankie, you know, or, or like a Margot at the wedding or something where it's not super high stakes, but like, I even think like Ruben Osland and, and Luca Guadagnino's movies are like, they're, they're so atmospheric, but like something crazy always happens, like an avalanche or like something really crazy, someone murders someone or something. But so I think. Mia Hansen Love. I think I just want her to like, keep working in that, in that zone.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was trying of a director, I. And this, actually, this movie is again, maybe like having to like, really establish the ground rules or something. But I would think Pedro Malavar is probably my pick for that. But then also the last movie, the Room Next Door that he did, or at least the one I saw, was sort of kind of like that. I mean, I know that it's a, it's very complicated story, but they, I think they like, rent a house in the country, upstate New York or something. And it's, they're definitely rich. So I'm like, I wonder, wonder if that fits. But anyway, yeah, he would probably do a good one if he were to do like a straight down the line, like going to the south of France to make some, you know, some crazy, you know, tense relationship movie. It would be great.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I, I do like, I, I like these vaca. You're kind. Like you said, it's like there's Problems before the movie has even started. And so you're kind of entering in medias, Rey. You're kind of like, in the middle of the action. And a lot of times it's almost like, these people should not be going on vacation right now. But they're like, we're going on vacation. We're gonna have fun. Like, there's sort of like, an obstinance to these types of movies at very. At the very beginning, you know, to the characters.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah. Like, they think it's gonna fix something.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, exactly.

[Katie Walsh]

And, like, maybe the. Maybe. Maybe it break. Maybe they learn something about themselves. Maybe they come to some resolution or maybe everything's broken.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Well, Katie, I. Do you. How do you feel about going. Are you a good vacation taker?

[Katie Walsh]

I think I'm okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. I don't.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel like I don't go on.

[Katie Walsh]

A lot of vacations. Like, every time I travel is, like, for work or something. But it is funny because the past couple years, I've gone out on group trips, which is a really funny dynamic. Like, there's always one enemy. And when you go on a group trip, when it's like, six people, like, there will be, like, factions of people who turn on each other and, like, one person who, like, ends up being, like, the group enemy because they, like, don't get along well.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And sometimes that's an unpredictable person.

[Katie Walsh]

You never know who's going to be. You never know.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I just.

[Millie de Chirico]

I just read that New York Times article. I think it's called how to Plan a Vacation with a Group and Stay Friends.

[Katie Walsh]

Oh, I need to read that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Yeah. I think it came out, like, a couple days ago, but it was basically like, here are some ground rules if you, like, want to still like your friends when you come home. And I actually think it's really practical advice. I mean, I think it's really more about, like, where the. Like. Because I've rented houses with friends, like, at the lake or, like, even on vacation. And that has a little bit. I mean, that. I feel like you really need to set ground rules about, like, who's gonna do what type of thing. But a lot of times when you're just, like, all going on a trip and you're all staying at a hotel, it's a little. I don't know, not easier, but it's like, at least you have your own little space and you. You know what I mean? Whereas if you share a house with people.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You learn a lot about them very quickly.

[Katie Walsh]

Well, yeah, I shared a house with people last year, and it was, like, kind of a mixed group where, like, some of us hadn't met each other before. So there was definitely one person who sort of, like, ended up on the outs. And, like, it was. It was tough, but it also, like, then, like, really bonds you with the people that you're like, oh, we have a common enemy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. That's an important thing to have at work.

[Katie Walsh]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

And. And on vacation. And on vacation.

[Millie de Chirico]

And also, you're just, like, more. I don't know. I. I feel like I always get kind of, like, trying to figure out, like, what people want to eat and what they don't want to eat and, like, what. Like, that whole thing gets really complicated when.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I feel like a big thing is when, like, I feel like so often I'll be like, I'm starving to the point of death. And people are like, oh, I kind of eat lunch late. I don't usually eat a lot.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like.

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Or something like, weird like that.

[Millie de Chirico]

A perfect example. Not calling. Calling out anybody that I know, perhaps, but, like, like, being in the country with, like, nothing around and people being like, if I don't have my, like, single origin pour over espresso this morning, I'm gonna fucking freak out. And you're like, we're in, like, rural Georgia. There's, like, barely even Starbucks around here. You know what I mean? And you're just, like, people who, like, can't adapt to the environment. And the expert. Oh, my God. Like.

[Katie Walsh]

Or, like, my thing is, like. Like, I need people to, like, like, know and take care of their own needs. So it's like, if we stop at the grocery store, buy the coffee that you need, because I don't want this to be a problem in the morning.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Katie Walsh]

So, like, you know, there, like, there was a lot of weird food stuff with, like, on the trip last year where I was like, oh, I'm gonna, like, pop into the grocery store. And this person would be like, why are you going to the grocery store? I'm like, I'm getting food for later. And then they'd be like, five hours later. It's like, hey, Katie, when's dinner? And I'm like. Like, you were yelling at me for going to the grocery store.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, Katie, thank you so much for coming on the show to talk about this. This is a very fun Converse.

[Katie Walsh]

Thank you guys for having me. I love diving in on, like, what. What precisely makes this work. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, no, I. It's. It's fun to kind of hear people, like, things. People kind of glow. Like film fans. Like what they kind of glom onto, like specific types of movies that maybe are. Aren't celebrated as a genre. You know, it's.

[Katie Walsh]

I love hyper specific sub genres. That's something that I really enjoy.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, Katie, where can people find you?

[Katie Walsh]

Yeah, so I review every week for the Tribune. So all my reviews are on Rotten Tomatoes. Just search Katie Walsh Rotten Tomatoes. Or I link. Link all my reviews on my letterboxd where I have a lot more hyper specific lists.

[Millie de Chirico]

Can I point out some, by the way?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, please do.

[Millie de Chirico]

I wasn't sure if you were about to do it.

[Katie Walsh]

No, please. I would love you to do it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Inexplicably large fireplaces. Yeah. Genius. Women be talking to aliens. Yeah. And one of them, this one is. Is absolutely. I am literally about to watch like half of these movies. Iconic himbos.

[Katie Walsh]

Yes, yes, yes. Iconic himbos is a really fun one.

[Casey O'Brien]

30 films I gotta check out.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, yeah, 30 films. Oh, I love that army of Darknesses. This is so good. I love it.

[Katie Walsh]

Bruce, he's such a himbo.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, he's such a hmbo. What the. Especially in the later Evil Dead movies. I'm like, oh, he is a. He's a hot dummy. And we love it. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Walsh]

So follow me in letterbox, it's Katie Walsh stx. All my. All my hyper specific lists are there. I'll try to come up with some more. And I'm on Blue sky at Katie Walsh STX as well.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fabulous. Well, Katie, so good to see you.

[Katie Walsh]

Great to see you guys. This was so fun to talk about.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

That was so great talking to Katie. I love Katie. I miss her.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm sad I don't live in the same city as her anymore.

[Millie de Chirico]

She's so cool.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm glad we were able to explore her letterboxd playlists or her like, letterbox. Those were fun. Yeah, I enjoyed that a lot. That is fun, Millie. One point I was gonna bring up that I didn't bring up during our she's all that conversation is. There was a lot of movies with dead moms or missing moms, like teen movies at that time. Like I was. This is just off the top of my head, but clueless 10 things I hate about you. She's all that crossroads. What was going on?

[Millie de Chirico]

What is going on? Actually, moms are out.

[Casey O'Brien]

Single dads are in. I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Interesting. Well, somebody. I wonder if there's a. There's like an academic paper written about that. I should look.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah, you should go back to school.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, I would kill for that JSTOR access. I wonder if I still have it. I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Your what store access.

[Millie de Chirico]

Jstor, which is the big database of academic articles. It's great.

[Casey O'Brien]

They cut you off.

[Millie de Chirico]

They cut me off.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie. This is our employees pick section where we recommend movies based on the theme of the episode. Today's theme was the Usher Cinematic Universe, which we did not touch upon at all. And we just talked about she's all that.

[Millie de Chirico]

That.

[Casey O'Brien]

But we did talk about Usher, so that's something.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

But Millie, what is your recommendation for today?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I was going to say, I mean, this isn't technically an Usher themed episode and I would like to recommend another Usher film. There's, like I said at the top, there's more than I actually thought. Some of which he is playing a character and not just himself. Right, sure. But I. I obviously feel like I have to recommend 1998's the Faculty, directed by Robert Rodriguez, which was, I, I guess, effectively the movie that he made before she's all that.

[Casey O'Brien]

He might be in that movie. Less than I know. Less than she's all that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Another ensemble cast of famous people. Of course, you know, Jordana Brewster and Josh Hartnett and I mean, Jon Stewart's in this movie. Elijah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Elijah Wood.

[Millie de Chirico]

But yeah, it's kind of like a sci fi thriller horror about high school or so it doesn't.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's fun. Yeah, that's a fun movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's actually. We did it. We did an episode about it on. I saw what you did and it's actually not, not that bad. And there was this like conceit in the movie where Josh Hartnett was like selling drugs. And the way that they would distribute the drugs is through pens. Like they would put it into like a pen. And I was like, that's actually genius. Like, if I was selling drugs in high school, I would totally put them in a pen. I mean, come on.

[Casey O'Brien]

Lessons. The lessons you learn from going to the movies.

[Millie de Chirico]

What's your pick this week?

[Casey O'Brien]

The faculty also was cited recently by the director Ryan Coogler as an influence on the movie Sinners that came out this year. So I feel like it was like in the news recently.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow, that's crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

For that reason. And you can kind of see how they're similar.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, for sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm recommending. So I was sort of thinking about she's all that and I do. I'm such a simp for these silly teen movies of the late 90s because that was when I was like in middle School and really looked up to teenagers. And so I'm recommending a movie that. An ensemble film that came out the year before, which I actually think is pretty good or pretty fun. And that is called can't hardly wait from 1998. This all takes place at a party. It's with Jennifer Love Hewitt, Ethan Embry, Lauren Ambrose, Seth Green. It's like the last night of high school before graduation and there's like a big house party and Ethan Embry is going to confess his love to Jennifer Love Hewitt, who he has been in love with since like freshman year of high school. And there's like a million famous people in this movie too, and it's fun. I like an all in one night movie. I like it all at one location movie. And yeah, I've always enjoyed this movie. And I like the song Can't Hardly Wait by the Replacements.

[Millie de Chirico]

Who doesn't?

[Casey O'Brien]

Man, that's one of my favorite songs of all time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, they're one of my favorite bands of all time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Are they really? I don't know if anyone that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, the more you know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Did you like the new. We didn't talk about this before, but did you like the new version of the album, Tim, that came out, the remastered version? Did you listen to that at all?

[Millie de Chirico]

A little bit. A little bit? Yeah, it was good. Yeah, they're good band, man. They're a good band.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're good.

[Millie de Chirico]

Ethan Embry in this movie and in the 90s, was a huge crusher, man.

[Casey O'Brien]

Mine very crushable.

[Millie de Chirico]

Very crushable. And in fact, I was watching an interview. So I saw an interview with Dave Franco and Alison Bri, who were in the new movie together.

[Casey O'Brien]

Looks freaky.

[Millie de Chirico]

Does look freaky. I watched an interview in which Alison Brie admitted that her. Her celebrity crush as a younger person was Ethan Embry.

[Casey O'Brien]

Hmm.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I was like, ah, yes. That's exactly who mine was too. Great. Besides Edward Furlong, of course, from T2 Judgment Day, but.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, didn't know he was a crush of yours as well, bro.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's almost like you weren't present when we recorded like 200 episodes of I Saw what yout Did.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was listening to other podcasts while you were recording.

[Millie de Chirico]

I knew it. I knew you were off doing some other fandango when we were chit chatting. Yeah, no, I like except for Empire Records. That's like the one. The one movie of his that I cannot stand for him. But even up until Sweet Home Alabama. Shit in Sweet Home Alabama. Talk about a dream. He's a dream.

[Casey O'Brien]

Saw that in Theaters.

[Millie de Chirico]

A closeted country boy, please.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I love Ethan Embry. He was in, like, all these movies. I loved.

[Millie de Chirico]

Loved.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, that thing you do. Vegas vacation.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Can't hardly wait.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Good choice.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you. Thank you. I hope I didn't recommend that one before. I feel like I've talked about it before, but whatever. All right. Well, Millie, God darn it, we did it again. Look at us. How the hell. Jesus Christ. Well, if you like our show, and I hope you do, and you want to write to us for film advice or if you need any specific recommendations or need help navigating a director's filmography or need a film gripe resolved, Write in to DearMoviesactlyRightMedia.com and you can also send us a voicemail. Just record it on your phone and send it to DearMoviesactlyRightMedia.com please make it under a minute, and please record in a quiet place.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right. Also, we are on social media. We are at Dear Movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterboxd handles are Ceylee o' Brien and Decherico. Also, if you want to listen to us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, basically, wherever you get podcast and. And rate and review the show.

[Casey O'Brien]

Cause we tell a friend, too. Tell a friend, tell a lover, tell a relative that you like that this show is out there and it will enrich their lives. And if you tell a person and you show us receipts that you told a friend about our show, you also can get a little treat, a little chocolate or something. We'll mail you a Werther's original for each recommendation. One equals one Werther. That's it, Millie. So next week we are off. We're on a hiatus. We're not going to be here next week.

[Millie de Chirico]

Are you kidding me?

[Casey O'Brien]

No. The week after, though. Everyone buckle up. I'm afraid Millie's taking me on a journey that I'm unprepared for. I have a lot of questions, including when I Google this movie, the words couch, couch, couch, couch, couch scroll across the screen.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh.

[Casey O'Brien]

What? I don't know what is going on.

[Millie de Chirico]

I don't either. I haven't seen it. I haven't seen this yet. So we're both going in blind. Okay, what is this?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, tell the people.

[Millie de Chirico]

All I know is that next week or, I'm sorry, the week after, we are going to be talking about the current juggernaut on Netflix, which is K Pop demon hunters from 2025, I reckon.

[Casey O'Brien]

Another new movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. It's another new movie. I reckon I have a lot to say about it from a certain angle. But I also would like to talk a little bit, if you wouldn't mind, about Netflix movies in general and what makes a Netflix juggernaut. And maybe some animation stuff gets peppered in there, you know, because it seems to be. This is a movie that is extremely popular on Netflix right now. All of the songs from the movie, because it's a musical, are like number one on the Billboard charts. And it feels.

[Casey O'Brien]

Is that right?

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, 100%. It's like, go look it up right now. And it seems like it's enjoyed by both adults and kids. And. And I'm just curious because you have a child if you have any insight on any of that stuff via Netflix, if you know what I'm saying.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay. My child is unaware of culture. To call her a child is even. She's just a little meatball that's running around our house.

[Millie de Chirico]

But you will be indoctrinated into the children's entertainment sphere.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. We already are. We already are. So I do have some. I have stuff to say about it. I do.

[Millie de Chirico]

So we'll be tackling that. So everybody watch K Pop Demon Hunters. Also, I have to tell you, somebody wrote us and said you need to repeat the employees picks again.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I saw this email. You should follow us on Instagram. They're all posted on there. We have a nice little graphic that says them every week. But. But this week, Millie recommended the faculty and I recommended Can't Hardly Wait.

[Millie de Chirico]

There you go. In closing, we do for you. Okay, so stop complaining.

[Casey O'Brien]

It wasn't a complaint. I mean, there were a lot of exclamation points in it, though.

[Millie de Chirico]

Good.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right. Well, Millie, what a treat this was. I love talking about this is like a great episode of the show because it's just an appreciation for movies that I don't feel like get the appreciation they deserve. Deserve. So thank you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. Well, you're welcome. And I'm glad we got to dive into this. This film. So I guess me too. We'll see you guys in a couple weeks.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sounds good. Bye. Bye.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, bye. This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie De Cho, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgariff. Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie de Chirico. We love you. Goodbye. Be kind.

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