“Wuthering Heights” (2026)

Summary

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Dear Movies, I Love You – “Wuthering Heights” (2026), March 17, 2026

Hosts: Millie De Chirico & Casey O’Brien

Main Theme: Revisiting Classic Gothic Romance Through a Modern, Sensual Lens

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Episode Overview

Millie and Casey take to the (literal and metaphorical) moors to discuss Emerald Fennell’s bold, stylized, and provocative new adaptation, “Wuthering Heights” (2026). They explore how Fennell’s version, complete with anachronistic style choices and an emphasis on tactile sensuality, stands apart from both the Brontë novel and previous film adaptations. The conversation covers the movie's reception, issues of fidelity and casting, gothic aesthetics, and what makes certain love stories so enduringly destructive and compelling.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Moors: Setting the Stage

• [03:02–07:05] The hosts humorously “record on the moors,” getting into the physical discomfort (wind, damp, Victorian costumes) to invoke the gloomy, oppressive landscape of “Wuthering Heights” and set the gothic mood.
• Millie: “How is, you know, eternal love supposed to thrive here? This sucks. And it's windy...I always think we come up with these big, grand ideas to record podcasts, and this one is just maybe the worst we've ever done.” (04:33)

2. Personal Connections and Expectations

• [07:29–08:49] Millie shares her history with “Wuthering Heights”—first as a childhood reading assignment, later as a longtime devotee of the 1939 film version.
• Millie: “All I know is that I thought it was the most romantic movie I'd ever seen for a very long time. And, you know, I just love the kind of gothic romance of it all.” (49:09)
• [08:49–09:23] Both have withheld opinions from friends to “save it for the podcast,” revealing their devotion to film discussion as a social ritual.

3. Emerald Fennell’s “Wuthering Heights” (2026): Approach & Reception

• [08:18, 50:01] The adaptation is explicitly labeled “‘Wuthering Heights’ in quotes.”
  • Millie: “I think she smartly and wisely did it in quotes...like to be like, well, I don't care if you think it's unfaithful. It's in quotes. It's my quote, 'Wuthering Heights,' end quote.” (49:39)
• [51:58] The hosts relay their lukewarm responses to Fennell's previous films (“Promising Young Woman,” “Saltburn”) but agree the gothic IP drew them in this time.
• [54:14–55:18] Both hosts loved the film, despite or perhaps because it did not fully indulge in the maximal violence/sex expected by the “cinema shitheads” crowd.

4. Casting & Race: The Heathcliff Debate

• [58:05–62:34] The film’s decision to cast Jacob Elordi (white, non-ethnic) as Heathcliff in a role canonically described as “dark-skinned” sparks critique.
  • Millie: “I do think that the story changes when that Heathcliff character is not ethnic in any way. Because of the implications of his ethnicity in this society, in this family, in his poverty...” (59:44)
  • Both acknowledge the adaptation’s “messy casting history,” weighing tradition, star power, and Hollywood realities against authenticity.

5. Anachronism and Visual Style

• [63:47–67:35] The adaptation’s bold, artificial visuals are a highlight:
  • Synthy, modern (Charlie XCX) soundtrack, evocative of 1980s music videos.
  • Vibrant colors, fake snow, and set-bound artifice reminiscent of “Marie Antoinette” or “The Company of Wolves.”
  • Millie: “It feels like the walls are alive. It feels like the floors are alive...everything seems very sensual and sensory.” (67:28)
• [68:42–69:53] Practical, tactile set design (e.g., real fireplaces, skin-textured walls).

6. Fluidity and Sensuality (Eggs, Goop, and More)

• [76:41–78:32] Discussion of Emerald Fennell’s distinctive sensuality—eggs in beds, bodily fluids, tactile imagery—connecting her work to Cronenberg and Ken Russell.
  • Millie: “She’s kind of into that Cronenbergian thing of body horror fluids, you know, very tangible, embodied sets.” (77:04)
  • Casey: “She has a little bit of, like...Ken Russell in her. I love it.” (78:32)

7. Relationship Dynamics, Queer Coding, and Power

• [75:04–76:27] The role of Nelly (Hong Chau) as Kathy’s confidante hints at queer subtext and highlights the power dynamics among the women.
  • Casey: “It was queer coded where she’s like, ‘Well, marry the guy you don’t love. Love me instead.’” (76:20)
• [79:35–80:07] The character of Isabella and changes from source material (Edgar’s “ward” rather than sister).

8. Passion Turned Toxic: The Gothic Love That Destroys

• [86:05–87:04] Both hosts focus on the doomy, fatal attraction between Kathy and Heathcliff—“a weight, an evil weight to it where...people are gonna end up dead because of this.”
• [87:51–89:57] The film’s handling of power-play sexuality, particularly with Isabella, is acknowledged as “problematic” by some but considered “shithead-pleasing” and, crucially, consensual in the reading shared here.

9. The Ending(s): Hauntings, Ghosts, and Emotional Impact

• [91:27–93:57] Millie compares the new film’s ending to the classic 1939 version; both feature the iconic “haunt me” monologue but the new film omits the literal ghost reunion, to the disappointment of some.
  • Millie: “Begging somebody to haunt you really just tickles my fancy, to be honest. And that's that goth, that goth. It's my shitty little vampire fixations.” (92:17)
• [95:01–96:32] On whether the ending is moving or “forced”—Millie is emotionally wrecked; Casey less so, but both appreciate the high stylization.

10. Broader Reflections: Fidelity, Adaptation, and Letting Go

• [97:06–98:27] Millie appreciates the film more by letting it be its own “version in quotes” rather than measuring it strictly against the book.
  • “It is what it is, you know, I wasn’t comparing it to anything else, really. So maybe that’s why I enjoyed it so much.” (98:27)
• [98:47–99:15] Casey notes that newcomers to the story tend to like the film more, while book purists focus on what’s missing.

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Memorable Quotes

• “If no one's, you know, eaten ass in this movie, then I'm out.” —Millie (56:58)
• “There were other little bits of shitheadness peppered in, which I'll talk about at some point.” —Millie (56:56)
• “I don't know. That seems like a little bit of a murky area, but Ethan Hawke is very good in this, and he has to play a very short person. And they did a lot of fun camera tricks...” —Casey (33:13)
• “It feels like the walls are alive. It feels like the floors are alive. Everything seems very sensual and sensory.” —Millie (67:28)
• “Both hinted and said it plain as day, explicitly.” —Casey (08:20)

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Important Timestamps

• 03:02–07:05: “On the moors” cold open—setting the gothic tone with discomfort and humor.
• 47:16–51:10: Intro to the new adaptation and host backgrounds with the story.
• 54:50–55:18: Both hosts reveal their love for the movie.
• 59:44–62:34: Discussion of the race and casting of Heathcliff.
• 63:47–67:35: Anachronistic style choices; discussion of production design and music.
• 76:41–78:32: Fluid/egg/“goopy” motif and discussion of Emerald Fennell’s interests.
• 86:05–87:51: The nature of the central, doomed passion.
• 91:27–93:57: Comparing endings—classic ghost imagery vs. 2026’s more stylized departure.
• 97:06–98:27: Final thoughts on adaptation, letting the film be its own thing.
• 101:09–103:14: Staff Picks—Recommended companion films.

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Staff Picks / Recommendations

• Casey: "In the Realm of the Senses" (1976, dir. Nagisa Oshima) — For “doomed, toxic, goopy” love that destroys all, elevated to insanity. Warning: black diamond-level explicit.
• Millie: "Possession" (1981, dir. Andrzej Żuławski) — Another wild, "oopiest, goopiest" depiction of love so destructive and strange it becomes otherworldly.

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Signature Moments

• Tactile skin room: The “skin room” set piece and eggs-in-bed sex games epitomize the adaptation’s blend of sensual excess, horror, and comedy.
• Millie’s new tattoo: Opens up about getting her first tattoo, dedicated to her dog, and connects it to the episode’s themes of love, memory, and bodies.
• Meta-Humor: Hosts consistently joke about being “cinema shitheads”—jaded, gore-and-sex-seeking arthouse sickos—embracing their outlier status among typical cinephiles.
• Tearful ending: Millie describes being “a fucking disaster” emotionally at the film’s conclusion.

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Overall Tone & Language

• Smart, irreverent, joyous, and a little bit dirty—just like the films and directors they admire. Emphasis on deep feeling, sense memory, and tactile experience, balanced with healthy skepticism and pop culture fluency.

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For New Listeners

If you’re new to “Dear Movies, I Love You,” this episode is a perfect sample of the hosts’ style: loving but critical, always personal, always ready to embrace the weirdness and messiness of both movies and movie-loving. Whether you’re a Brontë purist or just along for the comic “goopy” romance ride, Millie and Casey offer new angles on old tales—and plenty of laughs and gross-out moments along the way.

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Transcript

[Millie de Chirico]

This is exactly right. Then she says, have you seen a

[Gia Giudice]

photo of my son?

[Millie de Chirico]

And I'm like, who is this person?

[Host of Boys and Girls Podcast (possibly the creator or main voice)]

Welcome to the boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition hoping to find love the right way. And instead I found chaos, conflict, comedy, and a lot of cringe. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anna Sinfield]

Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield, the host of the Girlfriends. I'm back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriends Spotlight.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm going to climb. This is badness hereditary. Let's see how we can stop killing. I'm not too intimidated by her.

[Anna Sinfield]

What are you talking about? Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Danielle Robay]

Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week we are talking about a monster, or maybe the woman who refused to be one. I'm sitting down with Maggie Gyllenhaal to unpack her new film the Bride. And trust me, this isn't your grand mother's Bride of Frankenstein.

[Millie de Chirico]

What I was more interested in was the monstrousness inside of each of us. You can spend your life running from those things or you can turn around and shake hands with them.

[Danielle Robay]

Listen to bookmarked the Reese's Book Club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DJ Hester Prynne]

When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on Biggie? You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable.

[Millie de Chirico]

Cause I want to get confident.

[DJ Hester Prynne]

This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a new PODC from me, a DJ and licensed therapist. 12 months, 12 areas of your life, money, love, career, confidence. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the thing. I talked to composer Mark Shaiman.

[Robbie Kaplan]

It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang.

[Alec Baldwin]

And journalist Chris Whipple, every White House

[Casey O'Brien]

staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House.

[Alec Baldwin]

Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie de Chirico]

God, Casey, what are we doing here?

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie? This sucks.

[Millie de Chirico]

Whose idea was this to be out?

[Casey O'Brien]

This was. This was your idea to record on the moors, and it looked miserable in Wuthering Heights. I don't know why we thought this would be a good idea.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, you know how expensive the plane tickets were to come to the moors? I don't even know where we are, really. We're like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. I mean, I blasted through, through, you know, my vacation money for the year for my entire family just to come and record this dumb podcast. I mean, this is our worst idea since we decided to record in Antarctica a few episodes ago where it was also windy. It might sound the exact same, but we're in a different location. We're in the moors now. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, let's get serious. When the helicopter dropped us off here, I was immediately like, I have. The clothes that I wear are not appropriate for this.

[Casey O'Brien]

I.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're wearing Victorian era clothing. Why did we even decide that? It's crazy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. My. My collar could not be frillier.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, why? Yeah, it's like, in your face. It's windy. As there's no Gore Tex in Victorian society, apparently so. My clothes are all wet. This sucks.

[Casey O'Brien]

We got trench foot up in here. I mean, this is. This is not suitable for a podcast, frankly. And there wasn't. Was there any moment when you dropped that? You're lying. This is a little romantic.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, this was. This is the opposite of romance. I feel disgusting.

[Casey O'Brien]

I feel draining.

[Millie de Chirico]

I. How is, you know, eternal love supposed to thrive here? This sucks. And it's windy. Like, I. My updo, my very intricate curly updo is completely fallen. I don't even know what is my hair and what is a wig at this point. I just sucks and I. I don't know. I always think we come up with these, like, big, grand ideas to record podcasts, and this one is just maybe the worst we've ever done.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. We're doing one intro for a show. We're not even gonna do the whole show here and just one episode. Just. What a disaster. This sucks.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And the food is bad. And I mean, are there cran.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is there a cranberry bog around here at least? Can we.

[Casey O'Brien]

Right.

[Millie de Chirico]

Can we figure some shit out?

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I relate to, you know, Kathy's dad in the movie more. We should just, like, drink ourselves to death, you know, out here. I understand how that could happen.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

You know.

[Alec Baldwin]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You got to stay warm and you got to stay oblivious to the environment because.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, God. What the are we doing?

[Casey O'Brien]

Not good. I. I'm. I'm positive I don't know how to ride a horse. I mean, we're kind of fucked out here, but it's on theme. Yep, it is.

[Millie de Chirico]

It always is. We are going to do the brand new film adaptation of Wuthering Heights, which is the title quote, Wuthering Heights, end quote, from 2026, directed by Emerald Fennell.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep.

[Millie de Chirico]

Very much a topic of convo right now, wouldn't you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, I would say, say. And I had. I had not seen. I mean, we'll get into this, but I had never read nor seen any version of this story. So I was, you know, a babe just coming to this. Completely unknowing of any sort of background to this. So.

[Millie de Chirico]

Did it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I watched it with pure eyes.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was going to say, did it tug at your lover boy heartstrings at all?

[Casey O'Brien]

Did it tug at my lover boy heartstrings? Maybe we'll get into it. Dot, dot, dot, dot. Put a pin in that.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, let's get the off of this more and start the show. You ready for that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yep.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right. Oh, you're listening to Dear Movies, I love you. Dear movies, I love you.

[Anna Sinfield]

And I've got to know if you love me too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes or no.

[Casey O'Brien]

Check the box below.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, folks, you are listening to Dear Movies, I love you. This is a podcast for those who are in a relationship with movies. And maybe that relationship spans over a lifetime. And maybe that relationship goes away, but then comes back together at some point in a very gothic romantic way. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sometimes that relationship involves a skin room.

[Millie de Chirico]

It should. Anyway, my name is.

[Casey O'Brien]

If you're doing it right.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. If you are doing it accurately, you'll have skin on the wall. My name is Millie de Cherico.

[Casey O'Brien]

My name is Casey o'. Brien.

[Millie de Chirico]

And like we have been hinting at and have said directly, we are doing.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't think we even hinted. I think we.

[Millie de Chirico]

We both hinted and said it plain as day, explicitly. Yes, we are doing 2026's Wuthering Heights, directed by Emerald Fennell, which has just come out recently over Valentine's Day. Apropos, I would say. I don't know. I mean, I feel like this movie is one that a lot of my friends are wanting to talk to me about, and I haven't said shit.

[Casey O'Brien]

Ooh.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because I knew we were gonna record this episode, and I was pushing people. I was like, listen, don't talk to me about this right now. Just listen to my podcast. Because I like to manipulate my friends into listening to my podcast and indulging in my creative work.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I think that's a good idea to just cut yourself off mid conversation and hand them, like, a card that says for the answer. Listen to my podcast

[Millie de Chirico]

gets me out of wanting to talk to my friends directly.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure, sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's really nice. Speaking of devotion.

[Casey O'Brien]

Huh?

[Millie de Chirico]

I have something to show you. I have something to show you. None of these other people who are listening are going to see it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

But if we're in front of each other, I feel like I can show you this. Millie de Chirico pulls up her sleeve and reveals a tattoo. That's right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Can you describe the tattoo to people?

[Millie de Chirico]

All right, so as Casey has said, I got a tattoo. This is my first tattoo.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I talked about this on. I saw what you did. Because, you know, my former co host, Danielle Henderson, has a lot of tattoos, and she was always like, why don't you get a tattoo? What are you, a nerd? And I was like, yeah, I am. I guess I am a nerd. I've never had one. Never even really thought about getting one. And then I was ruminating it. I was like, yeah, you know, I'd probably get a tattoo maybe one day maybe of my dog Sophie. And I had some friends of mine reach out to me about that and was sort of mulling it over. And then, of course, my dog went over the Rainbow Bridge as. As you do if you're one of the characters in Mario Kart.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Which is not where the term Rainbow

[Casey O'Brien]

Bridge, I really thought it was, and I feel stupid. And I'm not entirely sure where the Rainbow Bridge, what that. Where the origin of that is, but I really did think it was Mario Kart.

[Millie de Chirico]

Can I say that? I had a friend reach out to me about that and was like, I laughed so hard when Casey said, I think the term Rainbow Bridge comes from Mario Kart. And then I started laughing, and then we both, like, laughed about this for, like, maybe two minutes where we were like, that seems like the concept seems old, and yet if it only has come from Mario Kart, then it's fairly recent.

[Casey O'Brien]

See, this is the hard thing about having a podcast, is that you don't know everything. And then if you, you know, conjecture on something and you're shooting from the hip, you look like a complete dumbass.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, funny. It's Funny. I'm just saying I feel like we should take away the original. I see. Yes. I think we should adapt it to Mario Kart. Are you kidding?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'd like to, you know, think that my dog shot out in a car being pummeled with tortoise shells next to, like, baby Luigi. I feel like that's a better visual representation of her death. Yeah, right, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Millie de Chirico]

So anyway, it's beautiful. Getting back to the original point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

My dog went over the Rainbow Bridge, and so that kind of fast tracked my interest in getting a memorial tattoo. So I have a Sophie tattoo. And it is cute.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is very cute.

[Millie de Chirico]

Demure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Who designed it?

[Millie de Chirico]

Tasteful. Oh. So let's get into this. So I talked about this on. I saw what you did. My old friend Chatham Helmers, who is probably listening, maybe listening is somebody that I knew in Atlanta, like, 20 years ago. I have never said this to her, but I'm saying it now. For the record, she was my idol. When I met her, she was like, imagine like, you're kind of coming into the city for the first time, and you're, like, experiencing counterculture and the cool neighborhoods, and then you meet somebody who's just, like, the perfect embodiment of, like, who you want to be. And you're like, oh, my God, like a fully realized cool girl. Like, a fully realized, confident, smart, vibrant, hilarious, interesting girl that I want to be. And, yeah, she really, like, inspired me. And then she moved to Birmingham pretty quickly after we were hanging out, and then I lost track with her. And then it wasn't until I saw what you did where she actually, like, sent me a message and followed me on Instagram. It was like, I was just listening to a podcast you did. Do you remember me? I'm like, are you joking? You're only my mentor. So we got back in touch. She's a tattoo artist. And so I went to visit her in Birmingham. I drove to Birmingham. She designed the tattoo based off of a photo of Sophie running on the beach, which is, like, such a cute image and is a very fond memory that I have of her. And she did a little, little tat for me. And it's, yeah, my first tattoo.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love that it has a personal connection. You didn't just go into some, like, gross tattoo parlor, you know, like, that's great.

[Millie de Chirico]

We were actually talking about that. I was like, can you imagine if I had walked into some place and just a bunch of, like, bros descended upon me and we were like, oh, there's a middle aged woman getting the first tattoo, and now she wants one of her fucking dog. Her crusty white dog. What a nerd.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's probably how it would go.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I don't know. I don't know those spaces, but

[Millie de Chirico]

you need to get a bone lake tattoo, girl.

[Casey O'Brien]

Bone lake.

[Millie de Chirico]

But anyway, so that's that. So far, so good. I thought it was gonna hurt a lot, the pain of a tattoo. At least where I got it. I had got it on my arm, which is apparently one of the better places that doesn't hurt as much. I don't know. This is what tattoo people tell me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

It wasn't as painful as I thought. It was more just like an annoying pain. It felt like somebody, like scratching me.

[Casey O'Brien]

Interesting.

[Millie de Chirico]

A lot. In a small. A little, small contained area of my skin. That's kind of how it felt. You don't have any tattoos, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't. I don't have any plans to.

[Millie de Chirico]

You might change.

[Casey O'Brien]

I might change when I'm 47.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

My mom.

[Millie de Chirico]

My mom got her first tattoo when she was in her 50s.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You never know, you know? I don't know. I feel like everything that I thought about myself is wrong.

[Casey O'Brien]

I think the same about myself. That emotion.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think that's just the evolution you experience as you move towards, you know, death, is that you're like, yeah. I used to have all these, like, really hardcore beliefs about the kind of person I was, and now it all collapses.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. As I age, I think if Patience was, like, older, and she's like, dad, let's get matching tattoos, I would think about it.

[Millie de Chirico]

What if she came to you and was like, let's get full sleeves, Dad?

[Casey O'Brien]

I would be like, hell, no.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and I'll tell you, I had kind of a couple different options. One felt like it was cooler and funnier, if you know what I mean. And then one was just cute. And I mulled it over for several weeks, and then I. You know, I told myself I would decide closer to the day. And then, like, the day of, I was like, you know what? I want a cute tattoo. I want a cute one. I don't want to be, like, funny about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because then I would just be like, oh, I'm such a jokester. I have a joke tattoo. But, you know, in the context of it being something about my dog, I was like, I don't know. I already feel like getting a tattoo of your dog is already a lot of conversation. So instead of trying to make it funny, I wanted to make it sweet and I feel like now that feels like the right decision to me. I'm glad I think that direction. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, because the other one you're kind of doing for other people benefit, where the cute one is for you, you know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, the other one involved my, my dog wearing a pair of sunglasses, which was great. Which was. It looked great. The design was really great. But I was like, yeah, I don't know. I'm glad. I'm kind of glad I got the beach one instead. And it's still healing, so it doesn't look like fully formed yet. But yeah, I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is cool.

[Millie de Chirico]

It is now written on my body so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, congratulations, Millie. That's cool.

[Millie de Chirico]

Thank you so much. I just figured I'd circle back with everybody about that

[Spreaker Announcer]

this episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading condition known as podcast brain. Symptoms include buying microphones you don't need, explaining RSS feeds to confused relatives, and saying things like, sorry, I can't talk right now, I'm editing audio. If this sounds familiar, you're probably already a podcaster. The good news is Spreaker makes the whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spreaker distributes it everywhere. People listen. Apple podcasts, Spotify, and about a dozen apps your cousin swears are the next big thing. Even better, Spreaker helps you monetize your show with ads, meaning your podcast might someday pay for, well, more microphones. Start your show [e-mail] spreaker because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour, you might as well publish it.

[Host of Boys and Girls Podcast (possibly the creator or main voice)]

Ever feel like you're being chased by the marriage police? Welcome to Boys and Girls. The podcast by Dating isn't Dating. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show, except the contestants are strangers and your entire family is judging. You're sipping coffee with one, maybe grabbing dinner with another, and praying your karmic Ken or Babi appears before your shelf life runs out. Trust me, I've been through this ancient and unshakeable tradition. I jumped in hoping to find love the right way, and instead I found chaos, cringe, and comedy. And now I'm looking for healing. Boys and Girls dives into every twist and turn of the arranged marriage carousel. The meet awkward, the near misses, the heartbreak. And let's not forget all the jokes. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hi, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the thing I'm speaking with more artists, policymakers and performers like composer Mark Shaman.

[Robbie Kaplan]

Once you've established that you have the talent, it's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. We would sit in kibbutz for hours and then eventually get around to the music. That's what I mostly think of when I the time together.

[Alec Baldwin]

Laughing lawyer Robbie Kaplan.

[Millie de Chirico]

The great gift of being a lawyer is the ability to actually change things in our society in a way that very few people can. You can really make a difference to causes in the United States if you bring the right case at the right time.

[Alec Baldwin]

Marriage equality.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, Windsor's the perfect example.

[Alec Baldwin]

And journalist Chris Whipple.

[Casey O'Brien]

Every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House.

[Alec Baldwin]

Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anna Sinfield]

Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield from the Girlfriends, the number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. I'm back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriend's spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm going to climb it.

[Anna Sinfield]

And then there's Fsaka.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's see how we can stop killing and save lives.

[Anna Sinfield]

Leila dared to ask the question, is badness hereditary? And finally, we'll meet Rosamund.

[Millie de Chirico]

If it wasn't for the air where Ella lived, she wouldn't have died on that first fatal night.

[Anna Sinfield]

You'll even get to meet my mum in that one, who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm not too intimidated by her.

[Anna Sinfield]

What are you talking about? Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gia Giudice]

Welcome to Dirty Rush the Truth about Sorority Life, the Good, the Bad and the Sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent and Jennifer Kessler.

[Millie de Chirico]

Rush. The recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[Gia Giudice]

Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood? Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actions, Rush chairs and ritual keepers. Some call it the best time of their life, while others say it's a nightmare.

[Millie de Chirico]

From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals. What is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses from Alpha to Omega?

[Gia Giudice]

We're taking you inside Sorority Row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship and the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Millie de Chirico]

What else? What else have you got?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I went and saw a few movies in the theater this week. One of them was Iron Lung, which we'll maybe talk about on a later podcast. But they had a short film before the movie. You know, there's this. All this bullshit Marina Maria Menounos bullshit before a movie starts.

[Millie de Chirico]

Tell me about it.

[Casey O'Brien]

And what they showed this AI short film called Thanksgiving. Have you heard about this?

[Millie de Chirico]

No.

[Casey O'Brien]

What they showed because there's a company that makes this pre preview entertainment for movie theaters. I can't remember what it's called, but they held their own AI film festival and this AI short called Thanksgiving 1, and it's about, like, in space, there's like this duck and a bear, and they're like, anthropomorphized and they're like astronauts, and they keep kind of getting in trouble by, like, sending garbage out of their junky little spaceship. I can't even remember the plot. But anyways, this has been a controversial AI short film because AMC has pulled it from their pre scre. Their pre preview entertainment because so many people were mad about it. And it did suck. I mean, it's not good. Yeah, I find it like, you know how AI art, like, cartoony art looks too realistic, but it's like, cartoony. It's like, if you ever see, like, the Simpsons as humans, and it's like, the skin is disgusting. That's, like how this looked. But also, I don't believe that the person who made this didn't use an AI script writer. Because there are things where I'm like, this actually doesn't make sense what you're even saying. Not, like, visually, like, it was hard to follow as a concept, even though it's supposed to be a funny little short film. And I don't remember why it's called Thanksgiving. I think at the end of it, I was like, why is this called Thanksgiving? So it all felt very generated, like artificially. And it was weird. So I just wanted to bring that up because I did see it and it was gross. And this is just to sort of put a button on our. Her episode.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know. And then there was that. That most recent article that came out about Roger Avery, who has, like, an AI production studio and was like, oh, I got funding for, like, a bunch of movies because I'm using AI and, you know, blah, blah. I'm like, yeah, because these stupid companies are, like, a bunch of, like, eager teenagers who want to, like, get in on the new craze so badly that they're just like, yeah, I'm gonna throw money at anyone that is using the words artificial intelligence without even really knowing. It's like we talked about in that episode. It's like people who just want to, like, be around AI, but they don't really know how to use it in any kind of, like, interesting way. I mean, whatever. I. I don't know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, in that article you just talked about, he was like, yeah, if you want to get funding for your movie, just say it's. I just say he's like, if AI's in the pitch there, you're going to get money thrown at you.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's like, crazy.

[Millie de Chirico]

But then it's like. Then you have shitty AI movies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Like, oh, this is a kind of a fork. But maybe, I guess since we're broadly talking about new technologies or new formats of motion pictures and entertainment. I have been watching. I finished the new season of Vanderpump Rules.

[Casey O'Brien]

Speaking of artificial intelligence, period.

[Millie de Chirico]

I know that you are not watching.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm not. And I don't think anybody else is. You're the only person who I've heard is watching this season.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen. I've heard a couple of. Couple of. A couple of goblins coming out of the moors saying that they're watching too.

[Casey O'Brien]

We got out of there.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

We're.

[Millie de Chirico]

We're all kind of creeping out from underneath the moss, being like, I guess we're watching this new up season. You know, as everybody knows, like, Casey and I were huge. Vanderpump Rules pump heads. Like, we've been so in on this. Until the most recent season, which, you know, as you may or may not know, they've replaced the old cast, the cast that had been around for, like, a decade, and they put all new people in there. And it's just like this new version of Vanderpump Rules.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And many, many people are like, nope, I like Original Recipe. That's it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I was curious and I simply had to. And then I simply kept going.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I finished the entire season within, like, a weekend or whatever. We'll have to save my thoughts about that for another time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But something that I wanted to bring up and this is what I'm talking about right now is that one of the characters on the show is this actor named Shane. And arguably this dude is the star. Like, I, I think he's the star. He's the most. He's the weirdest backstory. He'll never be as weird as Jax, but I also feel like it's kind of riding the rails. The Jack's rails.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

There's a darkness is what I mean by that. And he. There's an episode where he basically is on a shoot and. And he is an actor that appears in vertical soap operas. Have you heard about this?

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I've seen them pop up on TikTok, even though I'm kind of off TikTok right now, but I've seen them pop up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. So it's basically like a soap opera that is shot for verticals, meaning for, you know, like Instagram reels, tick tock YouTube shorts, and every episode is two minutes long.

[Casey O'Brien]

And then there's like Quibi.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. 30 episodes. And I was like, is that really happening? Is that like, are we really, really watching stuff like this? It's kind of nutty.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, it's interesting. Well, and I don't like, hate it inherently. I don't think this is like, I'm interested in new forms of media that are being created by human beings. So I like, I don't hate it. And I could see it being something, but it is funny.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and like, here's what I will say about that. I. The pro. I love verticals. I guess that's what we're calling them.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure.

[Millie de Chirico]

I love vertical. Short content. Obviously, I'm a huge TikTok person, but to me, if you're saying here is a movie or a linear story, but then it's broken up in two minutes, I, I don't. I still want to see it. I don't know if the term is cinematically or I want to see it in a proper environment. I don't want to see 32 minute episodes on a phone. If there's a way to like, show that to me in some kind of sit down format that's not on a phone I could be in, but I, I don't know how to do that. Right. I don't know how to. Because I don't know if you ever have. Have you ever tried to watch YouTube shorts on the YouTube app on your TV?

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I haven't.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, looks like it's like you're doing Apple airplay. You're getting this like huge long rectangle. The the. The pillar boxing is so insane.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's just like the letter boxing.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's like, like it's. It's like a tiny rag. Long rectangle. And then there's black. There's all black. And it just.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like a hot dog. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, no, it's not a good viewing experience. So I don't know, I'm just. I think I thought that was fascinating and I don't know, I think that we're all swimming in very murky waters right now when it comes to.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Maybe like bog waters. More waters.

[Casey O'Brien]

Boggy cranberry waters. I. It is interesting. We're like pushing the limits of, you know, because they're trying to make storytelling in like tick tock form, like long form storytelling. And it is kind of like maybe that's just not a form it can take. You know, maybe that's something else entirely. You know, maybe you can't tell a story that way.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And have it be engaging and interesting. I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, this guy from Vanderpump was convinced that it's the way to go, so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Wow. Okay.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, well, we'll see that.

[Casey O'Brien]

That adds some credibility to it, I suppose. Well, let's get to our film diary, Millie.

[Millie de Chirico]

All right.

[Casey O'Brien]

We simply must. Let's open it up. You have one on there that I'm interested in. Why don't you go first?

[Millie de Chirico]

I actually insist that you go first.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right. I saw a movie called We Bury the Dead. This is a Daisy Ridley zombie movie from 2024. Her. There's like a weapon that turns people into zombies that goes off in Tasmania and her husband happens to be down there, so she's trying to find him. This was fine. This was just fine. How did you hear?

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm sorry, go ahead.

[Casey O'Brien]

Trisha. Trisha found it. Trisha, my zombie queen.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, sure, sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

I like Daisy Ridley. I wish she was in more stuff. I think she kind of got the label of being difficult to work with, which a lot of women get that label and then their careers are ruined. And I think she's one of them. So I hope to see her succeed in many other future films.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Then I saw Blue Moon from 2025, the Richard Linkletter Ethan Hawke movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

So, thoughts?

[Casey O'Brien]

I thought it was good. It is kind of like a play. It all takes place in one location and Ethan Hawke is wonderful in it. Although I do question this recent trend of casting, you know, white kind of Waspish men in historically Jewish roles. And that is the case here because. Oh, what's the real guy's name. Hold on, let me look it up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Lorenz Hart.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes. Because Lorenz Hart is Jewish. And then I also think back to Mank, the movie Mank, where they cast Gary Oldman as Mank. I was like, why are we doing this?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

So I don't know. That seems like a little bit of a murky area, but Ethan Hawke is very good in this, and he has to play a very short person. And they did a lot of fun camera tricks to figure that out, but it was a delight. I mean, it was really good. So I enjoyed it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Quite an age gap between Margaret Qualley and Ethan Hawke.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, that's in the. That is in the story.

[Millie de Chirico]

Is it really?

[Casey O'Brien]

He. Yeah. Oh, he's. He's like an older gay guy who's kind of not, like, bothering. Not bothering Margaret Qualley, but, like, hounding her.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh. Because she's like. She's like 20 or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, she's supposed to be 20, and he's supposed to be 48. So in the movie. And he's kind of, like, obsessed with her. But yeah, there's. There's a. So it didn't. I mean, they're supposed. It's supposed to be gross in the movie, too. It's not, like, a good thing in the movie, so. But he's. He's really good. And I love Richard Linklater, and, you know, I feel like sometimes I like seeing movies about, like, the most annoying people on earth, which Lorenz Hart is in this movie, because I'm like, oh, this is how everyone in my life thinks of me. And so I take real. I relate to that.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, Casey, be honest. It's just me. Everybody else.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, no, no, no.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's more annoying. Oh, boy. Okay, well, that's good. You know, it's funny. I feel like Richard Linklater has really been kind of dipping into, like, the past lately. Like. The past past.

[Casey O'Brien]

The past. Yeah, he did Nouvelle Vogue and he did. Well, he did that, like my. My Evenings with Orson or something like that. Do you remember that movie? Me and Orson Welles is what's called. Yeah, he does like to dip into the past.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, but usually it would hover around, like, the 70s or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's true.

[Millie de Chirico]

Now he's going back. Back.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he is.

[Millie de Chirico]

Good for him.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, he's one of those guys. He can do whatever he wants. Him and Steven Soderbergh, I feel like they just don't give a. They're just kind of like, I'm gonna make this now. Yeah, I want to. And it's good.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm kind of here for that. I'm kind of here for that.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yep, yep, yep. I hope he makes another 70s movie again, though.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, that's his bread and butter, really is that era.

[Casey O'Brien]

I love it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Millie, what did you watch?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I went to a Videodrome slash Plaza theater screening of nausea from 1994.

[Casey O'Brien]

Michael making the Circuit. This is, like, around in Minneapolis, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. There's a restoration. I feel like it's Arbollaros or somebody did a restoration of it. It's funny, because I thought I'd. I'd seen this movie in the 90s, because the thing that I remember the most about it is that it had this, like, really great kind of shoegaze soundtrack. Also, like Portish Head. There's a lot of Portishead in it. The Portish Head was out of the print or whatever we saw. I don't know if it was a DC print, to be honest, but it was out of the restoration. And I don't know. I don't know why that happened. Rights, perhaps.

[Casey O'Brien]

Rights stuff.

[Millie de Chirico]

My friend Matt Booth, who owns Videodrome, who apparently had been in New York prior to the screening, and he was hanging out with Michael Almaredo, the director, which was so interesting, I think he said. He asked him why, and Michael Almareda said, well, it was the kind of thing that the record label really pushed us to have Portishead on the soundtrack. He was like, I didn't really care either way, so it doesn't even really matter to me if it's in or out, but probably. Right. So it was kind of that feeling of like, well, and then, you know, I did remember that was a huge thing back then, was. I mean, I'm sure it's that way now, where labels are really trying to get their songs onto soundtracks, because, yeah, you know, that's how you promote, and that's how you get people in the door. So. But anyway, all that's to be said, I remember virtually nothing about Nausea when I saw it. Again. Martin Donovan was great in it. It's a very artsy movie. I mean, it's basically like a female vampire. And it looks great, it's great, and it's very artistic.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very 90s boys in it, Right?

[Millie de Chirico]

Who?

[Casey O'Brien]

My boy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Who's your boy? Oh, David Lia. Because he financed it. Oh, yeah. There's a bit.

[Casey O'Brien]

I didn't know that.

[Millie de Chirico]

There's a story about how they couldn't get the money for it. And then David lynch was like, it, I'll just pay for It. And he's in it. He's. He has a cameo in it. But isn't that great?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

To have a really cool director be like, you know what? I'll just pay for this film, no problem. Yeah, put it on the tab.

[Casey O'Brien]

Somebody did that for Sean Baker was like, if you make a movie for this much, I'll just pay for it. Who was it? Hold on. I look it up. Oh, it was the Duplass Brothers. They were like, yeah, just make. If you make it for this much, we'll pay for all of it. And then I did Tangerine.

[Millie de Chirico]

Can I have someone do that? Yeah, please. Alms for the poor. All right, so Nausea, and then the other film I'm going to log this week on the film Diary is this wild film that I saw. It was called night killer from 1990.

[Casey O'Brien]

Nice. Real.

[Millie de Chirico]

Real weird. Like, it was. It's a horror movie. It's kind of like a slasher made by Italians, but in America. And it's very horny. It's, like, badly made, but I still enjoyed pretty much every second of it. Just. I don't know what else to say. A lot of boobs. So, you know, that's pretty good for people who love lots of boobs.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm trying to see if I've seen this movie. It's ringing bells, but, Yeah, I guess I haven't, but I feel like I have.

[Millie de Chirico]

It's on Tubi, so you can check it out, but it's. It's kind of like. Yeah, I don't. I don't know how to describe it, to be honest. I mean, it's like there's, like a cr. Like a. There's like, a lot of different ideas happening at once. If there's a psycho killer giving shades of, like, Freddy Krueger, there's also, like, a amnesia plot at one point. Very strange. Pacing, like the kill. Like, it kind of, like, eats its own tail at a certain point. I don't know. But it is entertaining. It's entertaining as shit. A lot of bad movie filmmaking, but very enjoyable.

[Casey O'Brien]

That.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm sorry. A lot of bad filmmaking, but very enjoyable. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right. Night Killer.

[Millie de Chirico]

That's right.

[Casey O'Brien]

Night Killer. All right, well, let's close up our diary, shall we?

[Millie de Chirico]

Goodbye, diary.

[Casey O'Brien]

Goodbye.

[Spreaker Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Spreaker, the platform responsible for a rapidly spreading condition known as podcast brain. Symptoms include buying microphones you don't need, explaining RSS feeds to confused relatives, and saying things like, sorry, I can't talk right now. I'm editing audio. If this sounds familiar. You're probably already a podcaster. The good news is Spreaker makes the whole process simple. You record your show, upload it once, and Spreaker distributes it everywhere. People listen. Apple podcasts, Spotify, and about a dozen apps your cousin swears are the next big thing. Even better, Spreaker helps you monetize your show with ads, meaning your podcast might someday pay for, well, more microphones. Start your show [e-mail] spreaker because if you're going to talk to yourself for an hour, you might as well publish it.

[Host of Boys and Girls Podcast (possibly the creator or main voice)]

Ever feel like you're being chased by the marriage police? Welcome to Boys and Girls, the podcast where Dating Isn't Dating. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show, except the contestants are strangers and your entire family is judging. You're sipping coffee with one, maybe grabbing dinner with another, and praying your karmic Ken or Babi appears before your shelf life runs out. Trust me, I've been through this ancient and unshakable tradition. I jumped in hoping to find love the right way, and instead I found chaos, cringe, and comedy. And now I'm looking for healing. Boys and Girls dives into every twist and turn of the arranged marriage carousel. The meet awkward, the near misses, the heartbreak. And let's not forget all the jokes. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hi, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast here's the Thing. I'm speaking with more artists, policymakers, and performers like composer Marc Shaiman.

[Robbie Kaplan]

Once you've established that you have the talent, it's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang. We would sit in kibbutz for hours and then eventually get around to the music. That's what I mostly think of when I think of him. The Time Together.

[Alec Baldwin]

Laughing lawyer Robbie Kaplan.

[Millie de Chirico]

The great gift of being a lawyer is the ability to actually change things in our society in a way that very few people can. You can really make a difference to causes in the United States if you bring the right case at the right time. Marriage equality, yeah, Windsor's the perfect example.

[Alec Baldwin]

And journalist Chris Whipple.

[Casey O'Brien]

Every White House staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House.

[Alec Baldwin]

Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Anna Sinfield]

Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield from the Girlfriends, the number one hit true crime show that puts women right in the center of their own stories. I'm back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriends Spotlight. I want to introduce you to Sylvia.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm going to climb this.

[Anna Sinfield]

And then there's Fisaka.

[Millie de Chirico]

Let's see how we can stop killing and save lives.

[Anna Sinfield]

Leila dared to ask the question, is badness hereditary? And finally, we'll meet Rosamund.

[Millie de Chirico]

If it wasn't for the air where Ella lived, she wouldn't have died on that fatal night.

[Anna Sinfield]

You'll even get to meet my mum in that one, who I can always count on to keep my feet on the ground around.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm not too intimidated by her.

[Anna Sinfield]

What are you talking about? Listen to the girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Gia Giudice]

Welcome to Dirty Rush, the truth about sorority Life, the Good, the Bad and the sisterhood, with your hosts, me, Gia Giudice, Daisy Kent and Jennifer Fessler.

[Host of Boys and Girls Podcast (possibly the creator or main voice)]

Rush.

[Millie de Chirico]

The recruitment, the ritual, the reality of Greek life has been a mystery for those outside the sorority circles until now.

[Gia Giudice]

Is it really a supportive sisterhood that's simply misunderstood? Or is there something more scandalous happening on campuses across the country? In this podcast, we pledge to peel back the layers and spell the truth one Greek letter at a time. Pledges and actives, rush chairs and ritual keepers. Some call it the best time of their life, while others say it's a nightmare.

[Millie de Chirico]

From a perfect rush to recruitment scandals, what is really going on behind the doors of those sorority houses from Alpha to Omega?

[Gia Giudice]

We're taking you inside sorority Row, including the chapter room, as we explore the fellowship in the frenemies. Let's get dirty. Listen to Dirty rush on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Casey O'Brien]

All right, moving on to our main discussion today. Wuthering Heights in quotes from 2026, directed by Emerald Fennell, screenplay by Emerald Fennell, based on Wuthering Heights by Emily Bronte. It's a romance. It's got Margot Robbie, it's got Jacob Elordi, it's got Hong Chow. And introducing little Alison Oliver. I thought she was great.

[Millie de Chirico]

Millie, what

[Casey O'Brien]

is your personal connection to this movie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I think I had said this in a prior episode when we talked about Valentine's Day, because I saw this on Valentine's Day and I absolutely love the 1939 version of Wuthering Heights. Actually, let me back up and say this. I read Wuthering Heights when I was a kid. I have not read it since then. Okay?

[Casey O'Brien]

Now, did you love it when you read it or you just read it?

[Millie de Chirico]

I just read it, and because it was an assignment, okay? This is just what happens now. I want to say that because there's a lot of people who are very obsessed with the original book, okay?

[Casey O'Brien]

That has become very evident since this movie came out.

[Millie de Chirico]

And some real Bronte pets, real Bront Heads out there. There's some. There's some real Braunt heads out there, okay? So I. I am not disparaging y'. All. I understand people who are in love with an original text and do not appreciate when it gets fucked with in any way. I understand that I am not one of those people, at least for this, because the 1939 version of Wuthering Heights with Sir Laurence Olivier and Merle Oberon is absolutely incredible. I've seen it so many times now. I don't know if that one is faithful to the original. And maybe people don't like that one, too. Who knows? All I know is that I thought it was the most romantic movie I'd ever seen for a very long time. And, you know, I just love the kind of gothic romance of it all. And so, you know, that's kind of where I sat with it. And then when I heard that Emerald Fennell was redoing it, and I thought, I think she smartly and wisely did it in quotes. Because I do think that that is a funny thing to do. Like to be like, well, I don't care if you think it's unfaithful. It's in quotes. It's my quote, wuthering Heights, end quote.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I think that was smart to put that out there ahead of time.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, it's just kind of like staving off the haters a little bit, which I kind of appreciate. Yeah, that's kind of a troll. I love it. But, you know, here's the thing about her. I mean, obviously loved her in the Crown because she played Camilla Parker Bowles. I thought she did an incredible job at that. And then shortly after I saw the Crown is when Promising Young Woman came out. Was not a fan of that movie. Then I saw her second film, Saltburn. Thought it was okay. Didn't, like, hate it, hate it, but, you know, I thought it was okay. You know, it was giving shades of Teorima, the Pasolini movie. But, you know, I. So I was kind of like, I've not really had a great run with her as a director. But I like this IP so much that I'm kind of in. So that's where my. This is kind of why I wanted to see it so badly and was willing to see it on opening weekend.

[Casey O'Brien]

So, yeah, I. Like I said at the top, I've never read Wuthering Heights and I've never seen Wuthering Heights. So I had no. I had nothing coming into this movie except I really did not like Promising Young Woman. Yeah, I thought it was bad and people were so obsessed with that movie and I just didn't understand. I just really. That's one of the few times I feel like I just did not. I really missed what was going on. I don't know. Yeah, I thought it should have been more violent. I thought it should have been weirder. I thought the ending, the ending of that. I was like confused at what she was even trying to say. I don't know. It was all. It was just kind of a mess, I thought.

[Millie de Chirico]

Anyways, yeah, no, I. Listen, I want to say to that point because I. I just had this conversation with somebody else about this. I think when it comes down to it, like any. Like, if you're a hardcore. If you're a cinema shithead. Let's just say this. If you're a cinema, okay, and you see a movie like Promising Young Woman and you hear a lot of hype about it from generally non cinema shitheads about it being the craziest movie that they've ever seen, it's not going to appeal to your taste because in your mind, a movie about a female revenge plot should end like the way that Durfan ends, which is that she eats the dude at the end. Kills and eats a dude. This is what we expect as cinema shitheads in this type of plot, right?

[Casey O'Brien]

Bear Men's. She's eating. She's eating a human.

[Millie de Chirico]

If she is not eating a human or dismembering a human, then what are we doing here?

[Casey O'Brien]

Count me out. That's what. That's how I felt.

[Millie de Chirico]

No, it's either that it's dir fan or it's the end of Thriller. AKA they call her One Eye, which is basically like a woman shooting a man to death in a very beautiful, you know, cinematic slow mo way. Or, you know, Ms. 45. This is what we think is Cinema Heads. But then, you know, most normal people are like, wow, what a crazy movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

I just was like that movie was like, wait, what? Because in the. The trailer it makes it seem like she's inflicting revenge upon these men. But in the movie, she's like, shame on you. I hope you feel gross. Bye.

[Millie de Chirico]

Bye.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was like, that was it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Listen, because we have diseased brains, okay? Maybe that's the problem.

[Casey O'Brien]

Maybe we've been cured in everybody else's disease, man. You know what I'm saying? But anyways, I always thought visually she was an incredible director. I didn't see Saltburn, but it looked visually cool. And I thought, promising young woman, like, as a direct. It looked great. Visually, that was amazing.

[Millie de Chirico]

I think that that's her bread and butter.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's what I'm saying. And so I was like, okay, this movie, Wuthering Heights. I was like, she is writing the screenplay, but she's not writing the story. You know? And I thought, this has real promise. And to me, spoiler alert. I really like this movie. I thought it ripped. And I have some criticisms. You know, the shithead in me, it always wants more. It always wants more violence. It wants more sex. But I thought it was pretty good. So that. That. That's my personal connection to this whole endeavor.

[Millie de Chirico]

Do you want to know what I thought about it?

[Casey O'Brien]

I do.

[Millie de Chirico]

I fucking loved it.

[Casey O'Brien]

I did.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay.

[Casey O'Brien]

I was in. I really was in.

[Millie de Chirico]

I loved it. And we'll get into this. I'm sure I loved it in spite of it. Maybe not going as hard as everybody thought it was gonna go, right? Yeah, I still think it went kind of hard, but it wasn't like, again, it still works. It works. And yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And I think somebody post posted this. Oh, I almost said a real. Said something. Really? Minnesotan posted. I. Somebody posted this on line, but was like, you're not going to see Jacob Elordi's dick. Come on, get real, people. He's too famous. Get real. We're not going to. We're not going to see full Margot Robbie bush in this. Get real. You know, they're too famous. There's too much at stake. Yeah. So I kind of am along those lines. I think the. I think what actually could have made people appease the shitheads a little bit more is the very first scene in the movie, there's a hanging. And after the hanging, the guy who's getting hung gets a boner.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And this makes everyone horny and people start, like, making out and getting all horned up. I think that should have been like the scene in the Devils at the top of the movie with. And they didn't have to have, like, fame. They could have had, like, you know, people who are fine, you know, random people. Get Naked and be horny. I think they just needed to throw a bone to the shitheads a little bit at the top. I think that would have appeased everybody.

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay. I listen right out the gate, if there's, if we're going to Bonetown, fine. I'm like. I was like, wow, great. There were other little bits of shitheadness peppered in, which I'll talk about at some point.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But I think that I was, I was, I was wondering if I personally was gonna hold this film to the same standard that I did for Promising a Woman Again, which is that it didn't go hard enough. I was like, if no one's, you know, eaten ass in this movie, then I'm out. Or if, if, like, you know, I don't even want to go down this road. I already said the nastiest thing you could possibly say, which is the last, in the last, very last moments of our last episode. I won't repeat it because I know my mom listens to this podcast. But I, I, I again was sort of like, you know what? I'm fine with it because time and place. Right. Like. But I really think that once we get into the beats of the film, there will be things that come to mind. To be like, oh, that was actually kind of, kind of shitheady. Which I appreciate.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But even though it wasn't like beats per minute. The grossest, most salacious thing that I'd ever seen. Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I think there's a lot to, for the shitheads to slurp up from your bowl. You know, let me just get into the synopsis here a little bit. It's 1771. We're in the Yorkshire moors of England. Young Catherine Kathy Kath Earnshaw lives with her father at the gothic, broken down estate Wuthering Heights. One day, on an alcoholic jaunt, her father purchases a nameless boy who's like, being beat up by his father in town. And he gifts him to his daughter Kathy. And Kathy names him because he doesn't really have a name and he doesn't talk really. It seems like he almost doesn't know how to talk at the beginning of the movie. But she names him Heathcliff after her deceased brother. And he becomes her quote, unquote, Peter. But soon he becomes her protector against her abusive, alcoholic father. And a love is born. And the beginning of this movie is she's a little girl. They're like 10 at the beginning of the movie. One big thing that people have an issue with this movie is that in the book Heathcliff is racially ambiguous. He is said to be resembling a, quote, dark skinned gypsy or quote Lascar, which is a person of like Southeast Asian descent. But in this, it's played by Jacob Elordi. Do you have any thoughts about that, why they did that or if that takes you out of it at all?

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, here's the thing. I do think that the story changes when that Heathcliff character is not ethnic in any way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes, right.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because of the implications of his ethnicity in this society, in this family, in his poverty, etc. Do you know what I'm saying?

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, yeah, it has much larger societal concerns that need to be taken into account when the story is.

[Millie de Chirico]

It makes. It raises the stakes on the whole idea that he was brought into white society, that he has something to prove when he goes away and comes back wealthy. It has implications on the way Kathy treats him and the way that she. The whole kind of con. I know you wrote this in your notes, but the possession part of it, the ownership part of it, right.

[Casey O'Brien]

It has a much darker connotation because so much in this movie is she's like, there's like a lot of like, I own you, you're my pet. That becomes dark, that becomes a more. I don't know, there's a darker twist to that if he's a person of color and she's a white woman saying that on screen, you know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, of course, of course. That is. That changes the conversation. I saw a couple of reviews about, you know, why couldn't they have cast, you know, I don't know, Dev Patel or somebody else in this role. But I think we gotta be serious. This is Hollywood. This is Warner Brothers. Like, this is like a, A company that's like, oh, you can get like the most attractive, like hot young actor right now or, you know, that to play this legendary character, I think you have to. I also think that Jacob Elordi worked with Emerald Fennell before. So it was kind of like a no brainer in that way. I'm not saying that it shouldn't have been a different actor. I think that's a lot of why the Brontes are pissed about it and for good reason. Totally understand that. For me, I just put it away, like in my brain. Like, I was just like, you know what? I. I'm gonna try to see this at face value, knowing that, hell, in the 1939 version, Sir Lawrence Olivier wasn't that either. He's a white dude too. So it's like, you know, like, it ain't pretty. Unfortunately, when it comes to this kind of stuff. So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. Yeah. And it is interesting because there are other actors in the non white actors in I believe, traditionally white roles. Like, was the Hong Chao character always Asian?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, see, I don't think so.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And then the, the character of Edgar Linton, I think was supposed to. Not supposed to be, was traditionally white. And he was played by Shahzad Latif, who is a British actor of Pakistani descent. So I don't know. It's. It's.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I don't know. Well, it's. I think it's something that needs to be noted.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. And I mean, interestingly enough, I mean, you know, in the 39 version, Merle Oberon is Eurasian. She is a biracial actress playing a white lady. So it's messy. Wuthering Heights has messy casting always, I feel like. But I do think it's interesting to sort of like change that a little bit in the new version with some of the other characters.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know. Yeah. There's another thing too about, about this version of Wuthering Heights that I actually appreciated, which is that it kind of has. It's giving like Sophia Coppola, Marie Antoinette, like anachronism when it comes to the. The costumes, the sets, the music. I mean, Charlie XCX does the soundtrack.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And so it's a lot of, I don't know, almost kind of like electro pop. Sounds very 80s. Some of the outfits that Kathy wears in the film feel very 80s to me. And we talked about this when we were talking about the poster, about how the poster, the COVID art with the white background looks very. Almost kind of like an 80s or like a dark shadowsy 70s thing type of thing where it's like very out of time in that way.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, No, I, I really liked that about the movie. It really was stylized in a way that it felt like a 1980s music video a lot of the times. Like the sky is like bright orange red and it's like very unnatural and very highly stylized. And that really worked for me. I loved that about this, this version. And I think that's actually what some of the Brontes don't like about it because it's like they hold this as like high literature and high regard. And to treat it as kind of like pulpy in this way denigrates it in their, in their mind. But I really liked that. That made me like, like even the way the snow is filmed, it feels like it's on a set.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And it feels so fake.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes.

[Casey O'Brien]

But like in the best possible way.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. The they. So you can really fall down a rabbit hole. About the production design of this film. Like, there are many articles, a lot of videos on YouTube, like with the production designer of the new Weathering Heights. And it's great. It's great shit. You guys should like all read it. But it's. They filmed it on a set and it is absolutely great. Like, I love that it feels artificial or something. It feels like it's in a fake world and.

[Casey O'Brien]

But rich, rich, fake world.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and like this is something that I was going to get into at some point, maybe later, but maybe it's useful to bring up now. So much of the. The sets, the set pieces of Wuthering Heights 2026 were built around like tactile corporeal things. Does that make sense? Like, it's like, yeah, the skin room, you know, the idea that there are hands in a lot of the. Like, you know, the fireplace and coming out of the walls. There's a video of the production designer for Wuthering Heights talking about how they were building tree trunks and tree limbs into the walls of Wuthering Heights to kind of feel. To make it feel like the earth was kind of caving in on this place. And everything in every scene feels that way. It feels like the walls are alive. It feels like the floors are alive. It feels like everything seems very sensual and sensory.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And then the idea that it feels like it's in a fake environment all hits for me. I loved.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Loved that about this version.

[Casey O'Brien]

Me too.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, I love the feel of worlds like this. And I feel like there's a lot of 80 movie, 80s movies that do. This one that I want to shout out is called the Company of Wolves by Neil Jordan from 1984. That's like, it feels like it's all in a set, but it's all in the woods. And there's something very sensory about that as well. And yeah, I mean, this. That I loved entering this world and feeling just the texture of it because so often we use CGI to help make things feel more epic in movies. And there's a lack of tactility to that that I really appreciated in this movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, there was like, I think it was on the architectural design. YouTube Talking to the production designer, Susie Davies, who I feel like we should name at this point because she's, I feel like, really a huge part of this movie.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

There's a scene, there's a video of her on 80s YouTube channel talking about every fireplace was practical so they actually built fireplaces on the set and they actually had fire and smoke. And then they all like came out of a flew that went outside to the roof of the. Of the studio. So there was actual fire. Like they were using practical sets and it wasn't computerized and they were building things. And I think that's the thing, is that this movie in total feels very tangible, tactile touch, like very sensory. And I've read quotes talking about how that was on purpose because of the nature of the time, which the Gothic period felt very non technological, obviously. But that also love is very handsy, touchy, sensory.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Brilliant. This is brilliant to me. And this is why I was like, yo, I love this movie. What the hell?

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely. Oh my God, yes. I mean, incredible. I'm gonna move on to the second part here. So we flash forward to the adult. They're adults now and Margot Robbie is playing Kathy and Jacob Elordi is playing Heathcliff. Okay. And they have kind of a brother, sister, sort of flirty, teasing kind of relationship, but they're not really together. They're not. It's not like consummated, you know. But then a rich guy moves next door, Edgar Linton, played by Shahzad Latif. And Kathy decides. She's like, I'm gonna court this guy or at least introduce myself. What's going on over there? Because Wuthering Heights is like falling apart. Her dad's a drunk, they have no money, and so she goes over to there to spy. And she, quote, unquote, sprains her ankle or hurts her ankle or something. So they have to take her over at Thrushcross Grange, where Edgar Lytton, that's his house, his manor, and he becomes smitten with her. And it's very clear he's going to propose to her. Meanwhile, Heathcliff is brooding back at Wuthering Heights and Cathy comes back and Heathcliff is mad. And then one night, they're spying. I don't know how this exactly comes about, but basically Kathy and Heathcliff spy upon some servants fucking in the barn. And it's very bdsm. Sexy and naughty. And this kind of makes Kathy go insane. She goes to the moors to do what else but masturbate and Heathcliff discovers her and they kiss. And he's like, I love you. I'm into you. And she is into it too, but she's like, I. We can't do this. We can't do this. No, no, no, no. She runs away. She gets proposed to by Edgar. She Says yes. And she is talking to Nelly, her kind of hired hand who becomes important later and now. But she's like, I love Heathcliff, but to marry him would degrade her because he's a poor servant. She's like, I have to marry Edgar, but do I? I love Heathcliff. And basically, Nelly sees that Heathcliff has sort of started listening, like, halfway through the conversation, and kind of gets Kathy to say that Heathcliff marrying Heathcliff would degrade her. So Heathcliff hears that part, but doesn't hear that she loves him. And as a result of this, he flees, runs away, and Kathy is distraught and she ends up marrying Edgar. Yeah, so. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So this is like the. Again, the implications of the racial component come into play because the idea of Kathy assessing whether or not she could even have this love with Heathcliff is based on his state of, you know, like, race, his finances, his background, his pedigree. And, I mean, I think it's obvious that, like, you know, in this world, you know, as a woman, you have, like, no options. And you. You know, there's strategic, I suppose, in that way where she's like, well, my dad's a drunk. I'm poor. What does it serve me to marry another poor person who I can't even really be with anyway because he's, you know, ethnic or whatever, and I'm just gonna go and cozy up to the rich guy. I mean, it's kind of very, you know, in that gone with the windy and kind of way of a woman who's basically like, well, I just gotta mar rich guy. And that's how it works. I mean, obviously in 2026, you're like, are you joking? But, like, back then, a huge, huge deal. But it obviously is the thing that destroys their. You know, destroys Heathcliff and. And ruins their love. You know, there's always the whole, like, storyline of. In these type of romances where it's like if a person just hung out for two extra seconds. I know, just listen a little longer, dude.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, because he took off. He took off right before she said, but I love Heathcliff, and I think I want to marry him instead of this other guy. She kind of. He kind of left right before that, and it ruined their entire lives.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right? And then there's a little.

[Casey O'Brien]

Leaving a little early.

[Millie de Chirico]

Right. And there's a little bit of. On the Nelly slash Hong Chow part.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, there's some fuckery because she has kind of. She. She has sort of a weird relationship with Kathy in that she's like a hired friend, essentially. And because she is like the bastard child of some lord. And.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, and that's what. And that's what makes it interesting that her character is Asian in this film.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because she also has something to gain by staying with this family. That's, you know. So it's basically like she's going, well, if this woman, like, marries Heathcliff, then I'm out of here. And I don't want that for myself.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm just trying because if she marries the rich guy, I can go move into the rich guy house, Thrash thrush, crush Grange or whatever it's called.

[Millie de Chirico]

And also, too, maybe a little bit of. I mean, I didn't. I wasn't sure if people were kind of viewing this through, like, a queer lens or anything, but, you know, just like, the idea of somebody being like, well, she'll now, like, I won't be as close to her because she's gonna be. She's gonna have a boyfriend, and it's just gonna ruin the friendship or ruin whatever it is that we have.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. So it was queer code. It felt queer coded where she's like, well, marry the guy you don't love. Love me instead.

[Millie de Chirico]

Just hang out with me. And we can. We can sit back and hang out while that guy goes to work. Yeah, for you.

[Casey O'Brien]

What did you think when Kathy put eggs in Heathcliff's bed?

[Millie de Chirico]

Look, this is what I wanted to talk about in reference to Emerald Fennell. This bitch loves fluids, and I love it for her.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, she does.

[Millie de Chirico]

You didn't watch Saltburn?

[Casey O'Brien]

I know. There's a lot of sea seamen in Saltburn and lots of gooey eggs in this one.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes. To me, it's kind of like. I mean, she's kind of into that Cronenbergian thing of body horror fluids, you know, very tangible, embodied sets.

[Spreaker Announcer]

Goo.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oopy, goopiness. I love it, in fact.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, I do, too.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, and, like, part of what I wanted to go back to, because I was gonna point out, like, a little cinema thing, is, like, when they're on the moors and Kathy is like, you know, basically like, I'm so horny, I have to go out to a moor and please myself. And then Heathcliff comes up and he's just like, what you doing over here? And that whole scene of them, I won't give it away, but it's. It's very sexy and very sexy.

[Casey O'Brien]

There was.

[Millie de Chirico]

That, to me, was like a nod to the. Where I was like, oh, yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

They're like, we see you.

[Millie de Chirico]

That went there, baby. And I. I'm Here for it. Good for you.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know, because like I said, I think that that is. That is something that makes her an interesting director to me, is the idea that she's. She's kind of, you know, a little. Little nasty, Little gross. You know, Got a little.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Got a little thing for eggs and egg yolk.

[Casey O'Brien]

She has a little bit of, like. Like you said, Cronenberg. I think there's a little bit of Ken Russell in her. Yeah. I love it.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

I mean, I just would hate if someone put eggs in my bed and I sat up. That would, like, ruin my quarter.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. But then. And then you've got shots of, like, people looking at each other with extreme longing, with, like, yokey fingers. I'm like, yeah, shithead alert.

[Casey O'Brien]

We should send her a hat. Emerald Fennell.

[Millie de Chirico]

Oh, my God. I would. I would die if she wore that hat. That's so fantastic.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's like, what is this? I don't understand. What's a face? Yeah, I. I just want to address Isabella Linda Linton, played by Allison Oliver. She plays the ward of Edgar. What is she exactly to Edgar? Is she related to him?

[Millie de Chirico]

See, at first. Okay, I was again, it's been a long.

[Casey O'Brien]

She's not his daughter, right?

[Millie de Chirico]

Not his girlfriend. I. I haven't read Wuthering Heights in a long time, so I gotta look this up. Oh, it's his younger sister.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh. Because in the. Okay. In Fennell's version, she's just the ward, but in it seems like in the book, it's Edgar's sister. I wonder why she made that change.

[Millie de Chirico]

I do not know. She's like, fuck it, let's just flippy dip it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Let's just.

[Millie de Chirico]

No rhyme or reason.

[Casey O'Brien]

Sure. Okay, next section here. Flash forward five years. Kathy is married to Edgar and living at Thrushcross Grange. And she's rich. But there's some longing for another. She's not quite happy. She's just kind of in the clouds, you know? But she gets pregnant by Edgar, you know, hooray. But she sits on her bed.

[Millie de Chirico]

Eggs.

[Casey O'Brien]

Someone put eggs in her bed. It must be Heathcliff. He's back. And, boy, is he back. He is shaved, he's clean. And guess what? He's rich. Inexplicably, it seems like there's some nefarious piracy stuff going on. Unclear how he got rich, but he's rich now. He's purchased Wuthering Heights. And guess what? He's pissed off because Kathy left him for Edgar, you know, and so he, like, kind of seeks revenge on Kathy. And he attempts to woo Isabella, the ward. Kathy kind of tries to stick it to him, too. But after her wretched father dies, they finally admit to each other that they still love each other and that she regrets saying yes to Edgar. And they start to fucking and they're having a good time, but he does not know that Kathy's pregnant. So this is kind of the fun, sexy time of the movie.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. So

[Casey O'Brien]

we gotta talk about the skin room.

[Millie de Chirico]

Talk about it. Let's go.

[Casey O'Brien]

There's a room that Edgar make, like Kathy's room. Kathy has her own separate room from Edgar. You know, they don't sleep in the same room. And her room is, like, the same color as her skin. And it's like the texture of skin. So it's like a skin room. It even has, like, little freckles on it and veins and stuff. Do you want a skin room? Would you find that romantic?

[Millie de Chirico]

Sure, I want to skin. Like, I have a room that is basically a facsimile of my skin with my new tattoo going up the walls, sweating, being. Being veiny and pulsating. Sure. I could sleep there. I could hang out in there. So I want to underscore this because I feel like it bears to be underscored, which is the hotness of Heathcliff. Okay. Because we all know that. That when you're, you know, destined for someone, when it's in the stars, that you're supposed to be with somebody, as Kathy is to Heathcliff, et cetera. That is a attraction that goes beyond the pale of just, like, being into someone. Right. It's just.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yes.

[Millie de Chirico]

And there's obviously something magical and romantic about that. Heathcliff pre glow up is kind of that like Wesley in the Princess Bride where he's, like a farm boy type. He's got a little scruffy, sexy Jesus sex appeal, you know. And Jacob Elordi is really good at being that person. I personally am not, like, attracted to Jacob Elordi in the kind of classical sense. But, you know, when he's embodying this, like, gothic, romantic, you know, dark hair, Jesus hottie with all the walls sweating in the skin room, I'm like, damn. Yes. Like, again, he embodies this, like, very similar sensual, sexual. And there's a lot of, like, sexual tension in the movie because they're not supposed to be together, but they clearly want each other. That's why they're cracking eggs in each other's beds and, like, putting their hands in it. And that's why the scene where they're spying on the. The. The house workers doing it in the stable. And he gets on top of her with his hand over her mouth. Please.

[Alec Baldwin]

Another.

[Millie de Chirico]

Another moment if I ever saw one.

[Casey O'Brien]

Absolutely.

[Millie de Chirico]

But it's that thing of, you know, he comes back and he's this gentleman now, right. He's got. At one earring, which I was like, what's that about? Is it.

[Casey O'Brien]

Are they.

[Millie de Chirico]

Are they trying to be like. Is that ethnic? I don't know why they had that one or anything.

[Casey O'Brien]

See, he is a gypsy.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. It was.

[Millie de Chirico]

It was very bizarre, but I was like, I'm here for it. Whatever. Like, it is. It is what it is. And all of a sudden, it's like the whole thing about him trying to get revenge on Kathy for basically being like, you didn't want me when I was poor and sweet. You know, and now I'm back to let you know I can really shake him down. Look at. You know, with my suits and my.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Cut hair.

[Casey O'Brien]

I. I think this movie go. There is a tradition of kind of movies like this or stories like this where it's like this love that can't be denied but feels like it's gonna end up killing everybody.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

Like, it's like. There's like a weight, an evil weight to it where it's like. It's almost. It's too succulent, it's too powerful. This attraction that. It's like people are gonna end up dead because of this.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah.

[Casey O'Brien]

And I always like movies like that, have that stakes to it. And I feel like, actually, David Cronenberg has a lot of movies like that where it feels like there's something going on. There's, like an attraction that can't be sustained and someone's gonna end up dying, you know?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah. It's like the end of Zulowski's Possession where you're, like, making out with someone covered in blood and shit. I mean, it's like.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

The most. It's the most romantic goth shit in the world to be.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

Doomed in the doomed love scenario. And, you know, it's very goth. It's very appealing. And we love that about Wuthering Heights. And then the idea that he gets back at Kathy, or attempts to by wooing Isabella, who is. For a virgin. Right. She's like a total virgin. She's probably never even seen a dude naked. And he. That whole scene where he, like, basically turns her out is exactly what we wanted. And, like, a lot of people were like, yo, this is pro problematic. Like, this is like, you know, like, cruel and it's a BDSM thing. It's obviously, like, not in the original text. And I'm like, yeah, but this is for the hits.

[Casey O'Brien]

But I thought it. I mean, I guess it is problematic, but, like, you know, Isabelle is loving it. She likes getting chained up like a dog. And you also get the sense that. But she's like, I'm doing this because I want to. There's a scene where she's like, so let me get to this part. Do you mind if I just say the next section? So basically, Kathy discovers that Nelly knew that Heathcliff heard her say that about him. So she tries to fire Nelly. Nelly then tells Edgar, hey, they. They be fucking. And that makes things more complicated. And Heathcliff is says to Kathy, like, ooh, just tell me to kill Edgar. And I am there. Just give me the word. I will kill him. And Kathy realizes, whoa, this has gotten insane. Like, we have actually gotten insane. And so she breaks up with him, says, this can't happen. I'm having this baby. You gotta go. So Heathcliff, to get back at her, marries Isabella. And they have this whole thing where they're like. He's like, I'm gonna treat you like shit, and I'll always want to be with Kathy. Are you cool with. With being with me? And Isabelle is like, sure, yeah, that sounds great. Actually. We get to. That sounds great. So they have this whole scene where he's like, have you ever had sex? And she's like, no. And he's like, do you want to? And she's like, yes. And he's like, I am not gonna be nice, and we're gonna get married, and I'm not really gonna like you. Is that okay? And she's like, yes. And I got the sense, yeah, Like, Isabella seemed like she was into this. And there's a part where he has her chained up to a fireplace and is barking like a dog.

[Millie de Chirico]

And.

[Casey O'Brien]

But it's all sort of an act, you know, to get Kathy's attention. So. And there's a part where he is like, Heathcliff can't read or write, and so he has to have Isabella write letters to Kathy. And Isabelle's like, I'll do it, but you gotta do some stuff for me, too. And he's like, yes, ma'. Am. So it does feel like she is actually in control of the situation. That's why it didn't feel problematic to me.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I think it was more. When I say problematic, I think was more of a taste thing, you know, based on stuff that I've read where it's like, oh, the whole, like, Isabelle is so grotesque. And, you know, she's like. It's so, like, bdsmy and, like, unsavory. It's supposed to be more highbrow or something.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

You know.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And I'm kind of like, nah, I'm cool with this.

[Casey O'Brien]

I, like, I. I am too. So basically, he's sending letters to Kathy, and Nelly is intercepting them and burning them. So Kathy thinks, like, okay, Heathcliff is just gone, but Heathcliff is like, I'm sorry. Can we make amends? I feel bad. Meanwhile, Kathy is, like, so distraught that she, like, stops eating. The baby dies, and as a result, she dies. She dies because she's so distraught that Heathcliff abandoned her. And the movie ends with Heathcliff running, galloping on a horse to see her before she dies. And he does not. But he does not get to see her before her death. The end.

[Millie de Chirico]

Wow.

[Casey O'Brien]

Now you have a note here. And I don't know what this refers to because I have no idea about anything Wuthering Heights related. Can you speak on that?

[Millie de Chirico]

Okay, so. So the end of Wuthering Heights, the 1939 version, is exactly what sold me on everything. And I'm like, retroactively sold on the original book because of the end of 39 Wuthering Heights, which is that Cathy is on her deathbed, Heathcliff busts in the door, and he's just, like, professing his eternal love for her. And it. And I will say that it was pretty much word for word the same in the new version. And I. And that's why I was bawling, crying at the end of the Emerald Fennell version, because I realized it was the same shit.

[Anna Sinfield]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was like, oh, my God, please, you're killing me. And he goes through the whole machinations of, like, damn you. You know, don't leave me alone in this world. Haunt me for the rest of my life. I mean, it's like begging somebody to haunt you really just tickles my fancy, to be honest. And that's that goth, that goth. It's my shitty little vampire fixations. I just.

[Host of Boys and Girls Podcast (possibly the creator or main voice)]

Right.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's right.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm a goth dude. I think everyone knows this. You know, I love a love a real hikey, like, up romance love of gothic eternal love story of, like, two vampires be in love forever. I mean, this is my life, right? And then at the end of the 39 version, the last scene is basically like, they're ghosts out on the moors, like, together. And I went with a Couple of my friends who are cinema in the same way that I am. And the lights come up and they're like, no, absolutely not. No ghosts. No ghosts. Are you kidding me? And I'm like, that's the whole thing is that, like, you were expecting the ghost and now you don't like it. And you're like, I just can't. I thought there was going to be the ghost thing at the end. And I'm like, okay. So they were, like, really pissed that the ghost thing did not happen. I don't know if I should spoil it. I mean, it's a. It's an old book.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

But there's a flashback sequence to when they were kids, which I feel like it's sort of ghost. Like. I guess you're thinking about the past.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

So I didn't mind it too much that there weren't ghosts on the moors at the end of the Emerald Fennell version. But, yeah, I think that was kind of a big sticking sticky for my friends.

[Casey O'Brien]

I. You know, one thing that people have been complaining about is that they're like, I wasn't emotional at the end of the movie. Have you seen this?

[Millie de Chirico]

Who said this?

[Casey O'Brien]

People are like, it was forced. People are saying this. People are saying this. And you know what? I wasn't really either. Good, I'm gonna be honest. But. But I didn't feel like I needed to be. To appreciate, like, it's so stylized and over the top. I was like, this is a ride. It's like, I'm not weeping at the end of the Fly with David Cronenberg's the Fly. That's how I kind of, like, felt like I was like this. I didn't feel like I needed to be touched to appreciate the ending, I guess, is what I'm saying. You know, Dude.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, listen, y' all are very cool. Very cool, calm, calculated folks. I love that for you. I love your restraint. I was a fucking disaster, Casey. Like, I was crying my eyes out at the end to where, like, the lights come up and my friend Eddie, like, immediately turns me. He's like, wait a second. There wasn't. And then he noticed that I was bawling and then just turned around in his chair and was like, let her have her moment.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'll hold my comments for later. I was like, lobby.

[Millie de Chirico]

It was the same that happened during past lives where I was. I had to run to the bathroom to, like, like, cry my out before joining, you know, the group of people that I went with to see that movie. But honestly, I Was emotional pretty much the entire film. I mean, when they're, like, on the moors and I was like, this is gorgeous. This is, like, so good. Like, I'm loving all of this stuff. And again, I felt like when I first came into the movie theater, I just was not expecting. Expecting the level of buy in that I think I ended up having.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's great.

[Millie de Chirico]

Where I loved it. Like, I loved the. Loved everything about it. I loved the ending. I thought it was so good. I cried my eyes out, as I just said. And I don't know, maybe I'm uncool, but I was emotional.

[Casey O'Brien]

That's. I think that's great. I don't think that's an incorrect reaction. I just think people who are like, I wanted to be weeping and I wasn't. I'm like, shut up.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, you should go through perimenopause. Maybe that helps.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, that's a good suggestion.

[Millie de Chirico]

Where I cry over. Literally, I was crying at Maria Menudos talking about AI before the film. Are you kidding me? Like,

[Casey O'Brien]

oh, my God. Any other final thoughts about Wuthering Heights, Millie?

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, quite honestly, I was actually happy at the end of the day that I liked it because I just didn't want to have anything to hate. I'm so tired of hating.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

And being disappointed. And I think I was very happily surprised because, again, like, my track record with Emerald Fennell was so, like, meh. That I was like, oh, my God. Actually, like, I loved this movie. And, yeah, I definitely want to see it again. There were things about it, all the things that I think people had questions about, which, again, are valid. Absolutely valid. I. I don't know. I must have just, like, dissociated from it. I mean, I'm biracial. I should care about the race of Heathcliff, obviously, and I do. But, you know, I just took the story for what it was and meaning it was, quote, Wuthering Heights, end quote. It's. It was her vision. And I was kind of like, okay, I'm just going to sit in the vision and see how I feel without it. Like. And so that's why I think that I wasn't as concerned about it being so faithful to the book. And I know that's probably wrong of me, but I just. It is what it is, you know, I wasn't comparing it to anything else, really. So maybe that's why I enjoyed it so much.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. And I had no expectations of it. I had. I have nothing to compare to. And I. And I feel like the people who go in with that mindset really like this movie. And I feel like a lot of the complaints I'm seeing are, like, it didn't have this, and I wanted that. And I'm like. And it seems like they're Wuthering Heights fans, you know, fans of the book. And so I don't know.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, I mean, like, listen, I'm not saying that I'm above that. There are things that I've hated because it wasn't the thing that I loved or whatever, but I don't know. I was. I was strapped. The. It was Valentine's Day. I was single.

[Casey O'Brien]

Come on.

[Millie de Chirico]

I was loving it. I was loving the eggs dripping off fingers and the. The dog collars on the fireplace. And I don't. I'm a. I'm a cinema in love. What can you say?

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah, there you go. Well, that's it. All right, moving on to our employees picks. This is a film recommendation based off the movie we just talked about. Millie, do you have a film recommendation? I can go first.

[Millie de Chirico]

Please do.

[Casey O'Brien]

Well, I talked about this a little bit in the conversation about. This was a movie where it's like, this is such a. Like, I'll say it. Toxic love. Like, there's such a passionate recklessness to it that it felt like this is heading for doom. I didn't know the ending of the movie, but I was like, this is doomed. And they say that in the movie, too. And it felt like they would destroy everything in their lives for this love. And it reminded the feel of. It reminded me of a movie that I actually really like and is a very controversial movie. Talk about a shithead movie. I can't believe I'm even recommending this movie, but I do think this is a good film, and I think it sort of embodies what I'm talking about. It's a movie called in the Realm of the senses from 1976. Now, something you gotta know about this movie. It's the opposite of the Wuthering Heights movie we just saw, where there is hardcore unsimulated sex in this movie, and there are some sexual acts in this that they actually do in the movie that will blow your hair back. This is black diamond shithead stuff.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, for sure.

[Casey O'Brien]

It is hardcore. So if you don't want to watch a movie like that, you should not watch this movie. But it's also a really good movie, and it just feels like this couple is, like, obsessed with each other to a degree that they throw their lives away, and it's disgusting, and there's fluids. And it kind of reminded me of parts of Wuthering Heights. It did, you know, like just sort of the disgusting, like nastiness that the movie kind of got into. In the realm of the senses really gets into it. And it's a Japanese film and it's based on a true story. Just crazy and. Yeah. Not for the faint of heart. Yeah. But in the realm of the senses.

[Millie de Chirico]

Absolute black diamond ski slope. Jesus Christ. I should watch that again.

[Casey O'Brien]

It's on the Criterion Collection. It's directed by Nagisa Oshima, who also, you know, he's done big movies like Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence. So I mean, he is a somewhat mainstream director, but he made quite a non mainstream film with that movie. And it's pretty wild. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

God bless America. I have so many movies I want to recommend because this is like, I love toxic romance movies. I'm just gonna go back and recommend the movie that I already mentioned, which is 1981's possession. Andre Zulawski, doomed romance. I mean, this is the thing is that it's like this movie is also oopy goopy.

[Casey O'Brien]

Oh, the goop. I mean, maybe the. The oopiest, goopiest movie of all time. Yeah.

[Millie de Chirico]

I mean, I'm not sure what happened in that subway. If they had. If it was eggs. They used all the eggs is what I'm saying.

[Casey O'Brien]

They used all the groceries, milk, eggs.

[Millie de Chirico]

There was a lot coming out, other stuff. Yeah. And I mean, this is again, like a movie about a couple, a married couple that are on the fritz and you know, they're trying to move on but can't in a lot of ways since they. They kind of move on in different ways, but then it's like they just have a draw to each other that can't be denied. And it's goopy. It's up for sure. And yeah, I mean, I just. I just feel like it was the only movie to pick out of several. I had a lot on my list, but I just was like it.

[Casey O'Brien]

No, that's. I think that's a great one because there's just a danger to that relationship that you feel the whole movie kind of like you feel in Wuthering Heights.

[Millie de Chirico]

So.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good, Millie. Well, that's our show. If you'd like to write in if you have a film regret, consensual film grope, or if you have a gripe right into dear moviesexactlyrightmedia.com, you can also send us a voicemail recorded on your phone. Try to keep it under a minute, please. And email it to dearMoviesactlyRightMedia.com that's right.

[Millie de Chirico]

We are on social medias. We are at Dear Movies, I love you on Instagram and Facebook. Our letterboxdles are at Casey Leo Bryant and at M. De Chirico. And yeah, we're on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Wherever you get your podcast, please rate and review the show. Positively five stars would be so fantastic if you did that. And you know, again, write to us, let us know that you have crushes on us that you would like to, you know, put eggs in our bed and let's see where it goes from there. How about that?

[Casey O'Brien]

Love that idea. Millie, what are we talking about next week?

[Millie de Chirico]

So next week, because it's the beginning of baseball season. Are you excited? No.

[Casey O'Brien]

My team is in shambles. Absolutely shambles. The ownership group has like decimated the team. Prospects are. They were supposed to sell it and then they didn't get enough bidders, so they are not selling it now. They took it back off the market, but we like hate the owners. It's a bad situation here. Very bad. No, I'm not.

[Millie de Chirico]

Well, I. My team, my team that won the World Series last year, there's a couple of, you know, like, Anthony Banda is gone, which blows. He was a fan fave, but, you know, a couple other dudes. But then like, you know, come on, you see the videos of my, my Japanese three wise men coming up over the edge of the stadium like AI. And I'm like, fuck. I'm so excited. I am so excited for baseball to be back. And because of that, we are going to watch the Bad News Bears from 1976. A classic.

[Casey O'Brien]

Fabulous. I haven't seen this in so long.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, me too.

[Casey O'Brien]

I'm excited to watch it again. Maybe we'll drink beer and smoke cigarettes while we watch. While we record the next episode.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yeah, maybe we'll shoot it on a baseball diamond and not a more this time.

[Casey O'Brien]

Yeah. There we go. Well, Millie, thank you for diving deep on Wuthering Heights.

[Millie de Chirico]

Yes, it was a absolute pleasure.

[Casey O'Brien]

Very good. Bye. Bye, everybody. Bye.

[Millie de Chirico]

This has been an exactly right production. Hosted by me, Millie de Chirico, and produced by my co host, Casey o'. Brien.

[Casey O'Brien]

This episode was mixed by Tom Bryfogel. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. Our guest booker is Patrick Cotner, and our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

[Millie de Chirico]

Our incredible theme music is by the best band in the entire world, the Softies.

[Casey O'Brien]

Thank you to our executive producers, Karen Kilgarith, Georgia Hardstark, Daniel Kramer and Millie De Chirico, we love you. Goodbye.

[Millie de Chirico]

Be kind. Then she says, have you seen a

[Gia Giudice]

photo of my son?

[Millie de Chirico]

And I'm like, who is this person?

[Host of Boys and Girls Podcast (possibly the creator or main voice)]

Welcome to the boys and Girls podcast. Arranged marriage is basically a reality show and you're auditioning for your soulmate. And who's judging? Only your entire family. I sacrificed myself to this ancient tradition hoping to find love the right way. And instead I found chaos, comedy and a lot of cringe. Listen to boys and Girls on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Anna Sinfield]

Hello, it's me, Anna Sinfield, the host of the Girlfriends. I'm back with more one off interviews with some truly kick ass women on the Girlfriend's Spotlight.

[Millie de Chirico]

I'm going to climb. This is badness hereditary. Let's see how we can stop killing. I'm not too intimidated by her.

[Anna Sinfield]

What are you talking about? Listen to the Girlfriend Spotlight on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Danielle Robay]

Hi, I'm Danielle Robay, host of Bookmarked the podcast by Reese's Book Club. And this week we are talking about a monster, or maybe the woman who refused to be one. I'm sitting down with Maggie Gyllenhaal to unpack her new film the Bride. And trust me, this isn't your grandmother's Bride of Frankenstein.

[Millie de Chirico]

What I was more interested in was the monstrousness inside of each other, of us. You can spend your life running from those things or you can turn around and shake hands with them.

[Danielle Robay]

Listen to bookmarked the Reese's Book Club podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[DJ Hester Prynne]

When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on Biggie? You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable.

[Millie de Chirico]

Because I want to get confident.

[DJ Hester Prynne]

This is DJ Hester Prince. Music is Therapy, a new podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist. 12 months, 12 areas of your life, money, love, career, confidence. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for your entire year. Listen to DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Alec Baldwin]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the thing, I talk to composer Marc Shaiman.

[Robbie Kaplan]

It's about the hang. It's the pleasure of hanging out with the people that you're with. You know, Rob and I was always a great hang.

[Alec Baldwin]

And journalist Chris Whipple, every White House

[Casey O'Brien]

staffer, they work in a bubble called the West Wing. And it's exponentially more so in the Trump White House.

[Alec Baldwin]

Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.