EP 449: Drink Water & Mind Your Business (feat. Dr. Donna Oriowo)

Summary

Podcast Summary: Decisions, Decisions – EP 449: Drink Water & Mind Your Business (feat. Dr. Donna Oriowo)

Podcast: Decisions, Decisions
Hosts: Mandii B & WeezyWTF
Guest: Dr. Donna Oriowo
Release Date: December 1, 2025
Duration: ~1 hour (main content: 02:37–67:59)
Theme: Challenging societal beauty standards, self-esteem in Black women, boundaries, and self-liberation in relationships, featuring insights from Dr. Donna Oriowo, author of "Drink Water and Mind Yo Business: A Black Woman’s Guide to Unlearning the BS and Healing Your Self-Esteem."

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Episode Overview

This candid episode explores how systems like colorism, texturism, fatphobia, and traditional relationship norms uniquely impact Black women's self-esteem and self-expression. With humor and realness, Mandii, Weezy, and Dr. Donna Oriowo unpack the intersections of hair, body, societal expectations, and sexual empowerment. Dr. Oriowo’s insights, drawn from her clinical work, her personal life, and her new book, offer tangible steps for reclaiming self-worth and joy in love, sex, and self-care.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Introducing Dr. Donna Oriowo & Her Work

(02:55–04:40)

• Dr. Donna is celebrated as an award-winning DEI advocate, speaker, and certified sex & relationship therapist.
• Her book, "Drink Water and Mind Yo Business," is a love letter to Black women and focuses on unlearning societal BS and healing self-esteem.
• Dr. Donna’s work centers Black women, helping them heal from colorism and texturism.

2. Texturism and the Politics of Black Hair

Key Timestamp: 05:44–10:48

• Texturism Defined: “Basically, it’s colorism but about your hair...The hair textures that are most desired are the ones they get shown.” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 05:57)
• Explores how European beauty standards shape perceptions of "good hair" and the emotional experience of hair maintenance, length, and identity.
• Stories of vulnerability around cutting hair and the deep embeddedness of hair in self-esteem.

3. Self-Esteem, Body Image, and Comparison

Key Timestamp: 09:53–16:51

• Discussion about fluctuating self-esteem linked to hair, skin, and body size.
• Mandii shares her journey with body image and cultural differences in beauty standards.
• The panel critiques how perfection is idolized and how unhealthy comparisons are fueled by social media.
• Quote: “You cannot inherit somebody else’s body. You can give up pieces of yourself to work for something that doesn’t belong to you...look at your perfect body, not somebody else’s.” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 12:09)
• Critique of diet culture and “healthism”; Dr. Oriowo calls intermittent fasting “intermittent starving” (14:12–14:52).

4. How Systems Shape Self-Worth (Colorism, Fatphobia, etc.)

Key Timestamp: 15:33–20:07

• Dr. Donna reframes self-esteem as a systemic, not just an individual, challenge.
• Body standards, BBL trends, and the performance of body positivity in pop culture (i.e., Lizzo) are critiqued and contextualized.
• “If you don’t have [self-esteem], it’s a we problem...At what point does it stop being an individual problem and start being a systemic one?” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 15:27)

5. Body Positivity vs. Real Health & Moral Judgment

Key Timestamp: 22:28–25:37

• Analyses public backlash against celebrities’ body changes (e.g., Lizzo) and health as another tool for judgment.
• Quote: “We live in a culture of healthism; we’ve turned it into another ism, another thing to judge people by...” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 25:23)

6. Sexual Boundaries and Communication

Key Timestamp: 25:38–33:33

• A frank discussion about negotiating condom use and boundaries in casual sexual relationships.
• Dr. Donna champions clear, early communication: “No one can ever read your mind...those are some of the seeds that sprout these types of relationships that everyone says they don’t want.” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 32:13)
• The role of self-talk and personal boundaries in sexual health decisions.

7. Dr. Donna’s Vulnerability: Dating Insecurities and Self-Perception

Key Timestamp: 33:58–38:58

• Dr. Donna shares about feeling pigeonholed as “the marrying kind” and not knowing how to “have fun.”
• She discusses personal evolution, her relationship with her husband (“Mr. Boo Thang”), and navigating family/cultural pressures.
• Candid anecdote: a date gone awry when a man proposed to her womb on the first date.

8. Self-Esteem and Situationships: Clown Analogies & Boundaries

Key Timestamp: 44:11–55:58

• “From the bedroom to the courtroom” segment: Are women in long-term situationships “guilty” of low self-esteem?
• Dr. Donna breaks self-esteem into a spectrum: secure, fragile, damaged, and vacant.
• “You become a clown when you compromise...the second you become compromised, you wore the red nose at this circus.” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 47:51)
• Differences between casual dating and situationships are explored; being honest with oneself is emphasized as a foundation for healthy connections.

9. Choosing Yourself, Setting Boundaries, and Creating a Pleasure-Filled Life

Key Timestamp: 57:21–62:54

• “They also did not choose themselves. That’s the part that gets lost.” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 57:36)
• Using the story of Penelope to illustrate that self-acceptance—not being chosen by others—is liberating and transformative.
• Boundaries are both “no” and “yes”; prioritizing one’s own pleasure and taking ownership of desires in and outside of relationships.

10. Advice from Dr. Donna & Book Takeaways

Key Timestamp: 63:12–66:43

• "Drink Water and Mind Yo Business" is positioned as a literal and figurative call:
  • Literal: Take care of your body; community is vital for nourishment.
  • Figurative: Mind yourself—focus on what you take in, what you put out, and whose desires you’re fulfilling.
• “Pay attention to the things you say you desire. Do they belong to you? Or do they belong to someone who believes they know you better than you know yourself?” (Dr. Donna Oriowo, 64:32)
• Self-talk is powerful—don't do others’ job of criticizing yourself.

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Memorable Quotes

• On Self-Esteem and Systems:
  “If you don’t have [self-esteem], it’s a we problem...At what point does it stop being an individual problem and start being a systemic one?”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (15:27)

• On Body Image:
  “You cannot inherit somebody else’s body. You can give up pieces of yourself to work for something that doesn’t belong to you.”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (12:09)

• On Diet Culture:
  “I feel like anorexia got a remix and we call it intermittent fasting.”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (14:52)

• On Situationships and Compromise:
  “You become a clown when you compromise...the second you become compromised, you wore the red nose at this circus.”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (47:51)

• On Choosing Yourself:
  “They also did not choose themselves. That’s the part that gets lost.”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (57:36)

• On Boundaries and Joy:
  “Boundaries are not just about no—they’re about what you get to say yes to. If you’re saying yes to a pleasure-filled life...you’re going to make different choices.”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (60:17)

• On Community and Self-Liberation:
  “Self-esteem is not the individual’s failing alone. It is the individual and their community. Who taught you your job is to lower everything about you in order to be accessible to somebody who’s not supposed to have access to you?”
  — Dr. Donna Oriowo (56:08)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |----------------------------------------------------|----------------| | Setting the Scene, Guest Intro | 02:37–04:40 | | Defining Texturism, Black Hair Politics | 05:44–10:48 | | Self-Esteem & Body Comparisons | 09:53–16:51 | | Healthism, Bodily Standards, Pop Culture Examples | 15:33–20:07 | | Sexual Boundaries & Communication | 25:38–33:33 | | Dr. Donna on Dating, Insecurities | 33:58–38:58 | | Situationships & Clown Analogy | 44:11–55:58 | | How to Choose Yourself, Penelope Story | 57:21–62:54 | | Book Takeaways & Final Advice | 63:12–66:43 |

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Conclusion: Takeaways for Listeners

• Self-esteem for Black women is deeply shaped by systems of oppression, not just “personal issues.”
• Healing and empowerment require unlearning, community, and radical self-acceptance.
• Clear boundaries—both sexual and emotional—should align with what you want, not what others expect.
• Communicate directly, both with yourself and your partners. Don't assume mind-reading.
• Pleasure, fulfillment, and self-knowledge are not selfish—they're essential.

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For more, follow Dr. Donna Oriowo on Instagram (@rdonnaoriowo) and pick up “Drink Water and Mind Yo Business” at your local Black-owned bookstore or preferred retailer.

Episode available on all podcast platforms.

Transcript

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

This is an iHeart podcast.

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[Mindy B]

I don't think you should say decisions, decisions. It sounded like you was talking it. Cursing.

[Weezy]

You definitely say the.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Welcome.

[Mindy B]

Welcome to the new podcast.

[Weezy]

Oh, wait, you wanna say it together?

[Mindy B]

Decisions, decisions. Hey, guys. Welcome to another episode of Decisions, Decisions.

[Weezy]

I'm your girl.

[Mindy B]

That bitch Mindy B. Hey, everybody.

[Weezy]

I'm Weezy. And you know we don't have many professionals in the house. We don't have anybody with the doctor in the front.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

This is a very exciting episode.

[Mindy B]

She be doing that. We be having some of them. Some people be having for the most part.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

They be like, listen, you know what's crazy?

[Weezy]

I went to dick sucking school. And that's what I know. And they be unofficial.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I know people that teach that.

[Mindy B]

Period.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Do you? And I ain't gonna hold you.

[Mindy B]

Maybe she's saying that because I done had about four niggas with PhDs in the last year. I love a smart man. So they're all doctors to me. They're doctors, they're scientists, they're professors, they're all the thing.

[Weezy]

And an author. We are here to celebrate her book.

[Mindy B]

That's right, y'.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

All.

[Mindy B]

We have Dr. Donna Oriowo, who is an award winning DEI advocate, international speaker and certified sex and relationship therapist based in D.C. but came up to the motherfucking NYC to be with us. She's the founder of Anad, right. She helps black women heal from colorism and texturism while embracing joy and sexual liberation. So, baby, if you thought you was gonna come here and it was just all gonna be preachy, we talking sex in this episode too. Dr. Donna is also the author of Drink Water and Mind Yo Business. I wanna read the other part of that because I like when we add the other part to ours. It is a black woman's guide to unlearning the BS and healing your self esteem. She is also the author of Cocoa Butter and Hair Grease and hosts the podcast in my Black Feelings and desire dialogues. How you like that motherfucking intro, girl? I want y' all to know but photopod, we was arguing about my husband Chatgpt.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Chatty.

[Mindy B]

And what's crazy, she calls him. She got a nickname for my husb. Called him Chatty and then decide to like point out a flaw in something he said. And I just, I. I stuck up for my man.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You hold him down Bad. It's.

[Mindy B]

She said, damn it. You hold him down. Huh?

[Weezy]

Do you use it?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I mean, I've used it before. And then I was just like, oh, nope, I'm done.

[Weezy]

Okay. So that's why I feel like that. So I have friends that are like both side of the coin, so I don't use it. But then I have friends like Mandy that call it their spouse. And I realized we both like butt heads a lot. Like, when there ain't no butting head.

[Mindy B]

Cause that's my man.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You ain't got like, your man, your man, your man. I'm not for your man.

[Mindy B]

You ain't gotta love him.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You ain't gotta sleep with him.

[Mindy B]

You ain't gotta talk to him. It's something that I enjoy, and I think it maybe comes from ptsd, from not hopping on the TikTok train. I know that this is the way of life. And bitch, at this point, AI gonna know me.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You're on it early, I'm saying, and period.

[Mindy B]

And so when y' all get on it, when y' all gotta get on it, I'm gonna be like, see, bitch? That's what she gets.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

But what about the water?

[Mindy B]

You know what I mean?

[Weezy]

I actually have a question about texturism. Tell me about that. Because I don't think.

[Mindy B]

I don't know if I really ever heard that.

[Weezy]

And I'm very embarrassed because I feel like they gotta jump and be like, you wouldn't bitch. Cause you light skinned. So what the fuck is texturism?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I feel like people don't know it as well as they think they know it, but basically it's colorism. But about your hair. Oh, the hair textures that are the most desired are the ones that, you know, they get shown. It's like, oh, yes, we want the Pantene Pro V hair.

[Weezy]

I would love to have a hair conversation with you.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm crazy. I know. I'll take it back a little bit, but I'm remembering this chick that I used to sit next to when I was doing my dissertation, and I was just like, well, look at you. You got blessed, right? Your white hair. Your white woman hair is not stringy. It's. You got Pantene Pro V hair.

[Mindy B]

I was a whole. It was a who about it as well. Black Hair by Chris Rock.

[Weezy]

Good hair.

[Mindy B]

Good hair.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Good hair.

[Mindy B]

Good hair, good hair. It was good hair. And they literally leaned into texturism for the whole film. I think though, it's.

[Weezy]

I've never heard the word.

[Mindy B]

Oh, I've heard that word a Lot. I think it's interesting because of the European standards of beauty. For me, even not ever having to really deal with texture, because white mama, I just have thin hair that fucking, you know, grows thin. For me, it was the relationship between cutting my hair. Because also black men specifically, not only is texture a thing, length is a thing.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yes.

[Mindy B]

Which is a part of a black woman's journey with her hair altogether.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yes. Because they say that your hair is your crown, your crown in glory. So the idea that particularly any black woman, any woman of color would cut their hair, it's like, why'd you do that? What happened? Yeah. And I'm just like, please relax yourself.

[Mindy B]

But not only what happened?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Hold on.

[Mindy B]

Women did it too. We got into that thing where when you get over a breakup to reinvent yourself as a woman, chop it off.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Do the big cut, because you made that hair.

[Weezy]

A lot of people do that with their locs too, saying, locs hold trauma. Like locs hold grief and pain. Like, I've heard of men doing it as well, but I didn't realize it until men having locs.

[Mindy B]

Men locs hold weight. And when that hairline start receding, Let it go, baby. Let it go.

[Weezy]

You know, I will tell you, I had a really crazy experience with cutting my hair recently. Like, to the point where I was so embarrassed. So I asked everybody in New York, what's the best natural hair salon to go to? I wish I could shout them out. I can't remember the name, but it's midtown. So get there. And I'm going for a twist out. And she goes, oh, you need a trim. And I'm like, a trim?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Or did it turn into a cut?

[Weezy]

I said, I'm not ready for a trim. She's like, it's just a little bit. You have dead ends. It's breaking off your hair. We want to keep your hair long and healthy, girl. But you know what? I appreciate black women. Get it? So she takes my hair down and, you know, we're holding on to the length because that's the thing that you gotta have the length like you're talking about. So she gets the scissors out, starts showing me where it's gonna be exactly. Bawling, crying like a child, full on tears. It's like getting really dramatic. And this old lady comes up to me and she's like, baby, this is okay. You're going to be beautiful after. You feel like it's a lot, it's not a lot. It's going to save you. Like, you're going to be Released from this, like, don't let it, you know, ruin your crown. And I'm like, oh my God, bro. When I was done crying, I was so embarrassed. They all, some women were being sweet.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And I know some of the young.

[Weezy]

Girls in their phone like bitch.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And they were crying over 2 inches.

[Mindy B]

Hello. And then one of the girls in.

[Weezy]

The chair goes, but you got good hair. It's 3C. And I'm just like, fuck. But growing up, I didn't feel like this was good hair because I'm the girl that I thought would have that. Oh, you know, every mixed girl's got that Tracee Ellis Ross hair. Let's just say that thick, that curly.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

That sexy big hair.

[Weezy]

And I didn't have that. My hair wasn't, you know, past mid back. And like the way that I attach length to like how I feel about myself is crazy. The relationship growing into like, should I be natural or not? Like I'm trying my best but it's a long journey. So to even hear I would say.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm not going to lie as a gift. That mess with, that messes with our self esteem.

[Mindy B]

I was going to say like. And I was, I was lucky to get this book. That's why I was like, can you send it? But this has so many conversations about specifically black women and their journeys through the self esteem. And hair is one, features is another, skin color is another. For me it was always weight and size. I felt like I was a little lucky coming from the south, which is probably why I have this full on hate relationship with la. Because I had gone to LA as a young adult and completely felt destroyed based on my appearance, my size. But this book taps into self esteem, what it means and later on we'll talk about how it shows up in not only relationships, but the bedroom.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yes.

[Mindy B]

Because boy does it show up, boy does it show up. And it's crazy because we just had a you got decisions listener write in who talked about like, how do I get sexy in the bedroom with this belly? And we looked at a picture of her and we didn't even see a belly.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like is the belly in the room with us?

[Weezy]

But also what do we think is a belly? It's so subjective. Just like that girl saying to me, I got good hair and I'm feeling like my hair is so difficult to deal with. Like the way that we see perfection in body. And like the best thing I've heard someone say to me when I was feeling down to myself, it wasn't someone, it was my therapist. He Was like, yo, you got to start looking at pictures of your perfect body. And don't look at your perfect body when you were 20.

[Mindy B]

You 34 last six months, baby.

[Weezy]

He said, find that perfect body. He didn't say last six months. He said, the last two years. Figure out your find your favorite photo of yourself in the last two years. He said, don't even choose 30. Your hormones have changed your metabolism. Pick out your best self in the last two years and maybe strive for that goal. Because right now, you looking at all these girls on IG like, oh, my hamstrings. I'm a quad.

[Mindy B]

Like this and that.

[Weezy]

He's like, get.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Their bodies are not your bodies, period.

[Mindy B]

It's yours.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like, your body is an inheritance. This is something that I learned from Sonali Rashatoir on Instagram at the fat sex therapist.

[Mindy B]

Oh.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I like. And talks about the body being an heirloom. You cannot inherit somebody else's body. You can give up pieces of yourself to work for something that doesn't belong to you. That's. I mean, if you want to do that, that's you. That's you. But I love what your therapist said. Look at your perfect body, not as somebody else's perfect body. Especially since you don't know what it took for them to get that body. Some of them bought it and did. And then I wanted to let me stop buying it. But some people are trying to pass that thing off.

[Mindy B]

Correct.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I did this extra hard work and I ate wheat every day, and I don't know. I don't know wheat.

[Weezy]

Do you remember when Beyonce told us she eat. And that's when I knew this is a different bitch.

[Mindy B]

Well, no, she did have everybody doing that lemonade and cayenne pepper diet. Oh, yeah, Everybody was on the goddamn lemonade. Cayenne pepper.

[Weezy]

That was a coachella dog.

[Mindy B]

That's what she said. It was. It was that one or one.

[Weezy]

Because I remember she said I have.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Popular opinions about diets in general, and when I hear the words, like, intermittent fasting or.

[Mindy B]

What about the watermelon?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Watermelon? Intermittent what? Starving. That's what we're doing. Intermittent starving. But we.

[Mindy B]

At certain hours of the day.

[Weezy]

Wait, you don't like intermittent.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Intermittent fasting control. I chose to selectively starve myself because somebody said that if I do that, then I will look in X way, which is not mine to look like. And so I don't like who I am in this moment. Don't want to dress the body that I have. Don't want to show up fully in my authentic self because I'm busy trying to wear somebody else's is wild to me. Because if you said intermittent starving, it would feel different. There are other people doing the same thing you're doing.

[Weezy]

It's fasting.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Jabs in the Congo.

[Weezy]

Is intentional fasting.

[Mindy B]

They know the same thing with a.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Starving, but they don't call it intermittent fasting. They just look at us like we are ridiculous.

[Weezy]

But is fasting bad?

[Mindy B]

I mean, it's subjective. I mean, yeah, I mean, she thinks it's.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

If you're trying to get closer to God, I guess it works.

[Weezy]

I was gonna say, I actually think fasting is the best thing to get closer to myself. Meditation, fasting.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I think that if you're doing it mentally, emotionally, that feels something very different.

[Mindy B]

Than I am doing it for weight loss.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Body I'm looking like because I mean, on one end, don't we all sort of intermittently fast? If I eat breakfast at this time and I don't eat lunch until noon, then between the 8am breakfast and the noon lunch, I also, I'm fasting for four hours. But it's just, to me it's just a little bit odd because I feel like anorexia got a remix and we call it intermittent fasting.

[Weezy]

What's the anorexia?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Anorexia like not eating. It just got a remix and we call it intermittent fasting. And we're okay with that. And I think that a lot of things got a remix to and they become these things that we put between ourselves and ourselves. We are asking, where is our self esteem? How come we don't feel it? We, we are blamed for if we don't, you know, that if we don't feel it, like, oh, well, if you don't have it. Self esteem is about your motherfucking self. So if you don't have it, it's a you problem. And I'm like, like, no, it's a we problem. If everybody you see has a self esteem problem, then at what point does it stop being an individual problem and start being a systemic one?

[Mindy B]

I agree with that.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

The system is all up in it. It tells us which skin tones are desirable. It tells us which hair textures are desirable, which bodies are desirable.

[Weezy]

It told us bbls are out right now.

[Mindy B]

Oh, wait, I look like they said.

[Weezy]

You don't see all the girls are doing the reverse. The Kardashians are getting.

[Mindy B]

Oh, I thought they were just mad.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Because Drake got, you know, it's a return to whiteness.

[Mindy B]

I thought they just did No, I really.

[Weezy]

I do think there's a reclamation of, like, being white is cool again. And I think it started from the Ozempic era because what we realized is body positivity wasn't real. And that actually kind of sucks because.

[Mindy B]

Oh, yeah, no one likes Lizzo anymore because she lost weight.

[Weezy]

Right?

[Mindy B]

But the problem, I mean, and probably the lawsuit. But I digress.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

A little bit of a. Yeah, he's a little bit of a home.

[Weezy]

But now it makes you wonder, does anyone really love themselves at that weight? And it's tough because it's like, there's a skinny girl fight of, like, oh, well, it's hard to be this way, too. Which I understand maybe if you're super, super small. But at the end of the day, like, there ain't many antidotes to get bigger.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

People are not. People are not discriminating against people with smaller bodies.

[Weezy]

Right.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

They may be. There's interpersonal violence, right? Like, there's the fuck you, you skinny bitch, whatever. But there is not systemic.

[Mindy B]

Yeah.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

There are not systems in place to discriminate against people with skinny bodies.

[Mindy B]

I've said that.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I love that. And anyone who is trying to say it probably also believes in reverse racism, also believes in reverse colorism, believes in reverse sexism.

[Weezy]

Right?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And I'm just like, if you're going to go ahead and believe in the reverse, then why don't you put on your Santa Claus hat too while you're at it and maybe buy me some gifts and just pretend I like hearing that. Because if you want to live over there in the land of make believe, that's your business. You can do that. But it does not exist. It don't exist.

[Mindy B]

I said the same thing.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm like, me and fat people literally cannot fit. Yeah, literally. I lost the front seat. I lost a friend over the airplane seat.

[Mindy B]

I lost the front over this argument. Like, I had a conversation, especially, like, when I was bigger. I ended up having weight loss surgery. But when I talked about, like, the plight of the things that I had to go through being 230lbs at 5 foot 1, regardless of how y' all think it was distributed. And it looked like, whatever. Cause I've heard that, too. While you were shapely. Whatever. Like, there were, like, I literally, at one point was a size 18. So the conversation of what that experience looked like, from getting into clubs to how people treated me at restaurants, to what partners thought of me, to all the things when I spoke about that. And she's like, oh, well, you know that skinny, like, skinny People have skinny phobia too, and they're discriminated against and all that. And we had to have the conversation and it didn't go well. And our friendship never was the same after that. And she did end up dealing with her own interpersonal things, but literally I wasn't gonna allow her to.

[Weezy]

Is she really skinny?

[Mindy B]

She was. And she had an eating disorder at the time. But regardless of whatever her again, interpersonal relationships with her body looked like, bro, it's. You're not gonna say it's not a worldwide issue. It's just not. So. And I don't wanna get too deep on that. Cause that's a debate all on this thing and I don't want us to appear like a red pill.

[Weezy]

I think it's a good explanation you said about interpersonal. There's a influencer that someone just sent me. Her name is Hallie Bachelor. She's a really popular white girl. She has a podcast as well. And she was sharing a clip with me about the girl talking about having an eating disorder. And there was a TikTok she made. She's like, I know I look disgusting. She's very, very thin and she doesn't look disgusting. She just looks like, oh, it's like an alarming skinny. And she's like, I. I get it. I know what I look like. Like, I don't need you guys to tell me every day. I'm trying. And the next week, for the next time I saw her face, she was at a fashion week show. And all I could think to myself was, okay, there is a skinny thing. You are gonna feel like shit, someone's gonna talk shit to you, but you're still in the rooms. You're still, you're still. You still have the access.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

So I think people don't sell, don't tell them that they shouldn't be visible, that they shouldn't be there.

[Weezy]

Right.

[Mindy B]

Where they have to take what they can get in terms of dating, like all of the things.

[Weezy]

And she can hide herself.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I don't like it when I say.

[Mindy B]

It, but eat that.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Exactly. I'm just like, quite frankly, there is a fat body genocide going on outside and nobody wants to call it what it is. And just like we don't want to see fat bodies. And so we believe that those bodies should not exist in space.

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[Weezy]

Body then in the body positivity movement in letting people know that they look amazing as they are, but then still because that's the Lizzo thing that just happened to all of the Internet, right? Do you love it or do you not? And I Think that's in what, in.

[Mindy B]

What aspect.

[Weezy]

Are we going to believe that the body's positivity movement is real now? That's basically what the Internet is going through. They're saying Lizzo's a liar because she decided to lose weight. And honestly, to me, I think there's a difference from weight loss Journey health. I think they both weigh like, I don't really care that Lizzo said she was on Ozempic. That bitch was posting workout videos damn near every day, like, you know what I mean? So it's like, okay, so you couldn't do both. So I think it's just this whole thing of like, where is the juxtaposition of you're big, stay that way. And also you can do this thing for your health and we celebrate it too.

[Mindy B]

Tim, there's a difference between what society is saying about you and how you should exist and your own self esteem. That's just what it is.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And make it all seem like it's about health. And I'm just like, okay, in that case, if I want to make it true, if I want to make all problems about appearance, about health, you can argue the same thing about colorism, right? That it's actually healthier for you to be lighter skinned. That's the science. You are less likely to be harmed or discriminated against. You're more likely to be in spaces, you're more likely to get paid the money that you should for the job that you are doing. They do not wholly discriminate against you in the same way in a hospital setting. For example, we just went through this whole lovely panini and what they found out is that the pulse oximeter doesn't actually read very well through melanin. So they were sending people home who died at home. So I'm saying that the world is set up also for white people and for light people. Then from that you can argue that you should be bleaching.

[Weezy]

I don't think that's true. I don't want to bleach you too hard on this one, but I'll be.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Honest with you, like some people would.

[Weezy]

We are in the era of my 600 pound life and motherfuckers with them pizzas on top of their ass and that shit. Actually, you know what I would even say the most unhealthy thing a lot of my friends do fuck big is the drinking. They have habits where they just don't give a fuck about their body. It's the drinking, it's the going out, it's the, like, what? Eating whatever they want, just not caring. And it didn't hit me until I turned 30 that, like, oh, I actually got to give a fuck what I'm putting in there. However, what I will tell you in all true honesty is I just started.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Giving a fuck like a week ago, which.

[Weezy]

About your what, you went in? Yeah, my bigger homegirls are actually not the most unhealthy ones I know.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

No, I'm the most unhealthy one I know.

[Weezy]

Like, it's just everyone that's either in the middle or either super skinny and just not paying attention. But, like, I think health could have something to do with it. I just think we don't round it out to everybody.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I think that we live in a culture of healthism. We've turned it into another ism. It's another thing to judge people by. It becomes a conversation about the morality of a person, whether or not we perceive them as being a healthy person or an unhealthy person.

[Mindy B]

I mean, only if.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And what we believe thus, that they.

[Mindy B]

Asking who getting tested and who fucking raw? Cause everybody wanna be healthy until you ask a nigga if he wrap it up. It's so funny. Cause me and my homegirl were having this conversation and we literally just had. She had someone recently, and when I say recently, in the last six months, we both recently had somebody that we were casually having sex with. Both of these men asked, so how long do we have to fuck until I could take the condom off? Not, not, when will we get together? How long until this goes to the next step? The question was literally, so how long? How many times do we have to do this before I could fuck you raw?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

What?

[Mindy B]

And we literally just sat on the phone and was like, bitch, you got asked that too. And I had to tell her who asked me. And I said, what's crazy is we're not even fucking now. He said this by maybe the third. Third or fourth time we fucked. And it was just like. And then.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Well, maybe for him that's the next step.

[Mindy B]

Well, I mean. Well, I guess everyone wants to live like Stepon Diggs out here.

[Weezy]

Doctor, how are you supposed to ask that question?

[Mindy B]

You're not supposed to ask that question. No, no, wait.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

About fucking raw?

[Mindy B]

About fucking raw.

[Weezy]

Hold on, Wait, wait, wait, wait. That conversation comes up.

[Mindy B]

Yeah, but that shouldn't be a question that you ask. Like, that's.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Well, that's my point.

[Weezy]

I'm just saying, how does that feel?

[Mindy B]

We're having a conversation about being healthy. Like, to be fair, it's the same thing. Let's just call everybody at this point a hypocrite. If you said someone believes in a skinny phobia, that means they believe in reverse racism. Reverse all this. At that point, it's a hypocritical, dumbass question to ask if you are casually having sex with someone that you possibly have no intention on being with, marrying, co parenting with, having children with. When can I fuck?

[Weezy]

Wrong. I'm actually really serious.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I mean, some people want to be gender fluid with you and maybe with other fluid bonding.

[Weezy]

That's what they.

[Mindy B]

How.

[Weezy]

What is the appropriate way to tell somebody? Like, can we do this step? I don't think it's a hypocrite.

[Mindy B]

Are we. How often are we get. How often do you want to get tested? Do we need to get tested then every month? Are we exclusively having sex together? Like the idea that anyone would casually want to have unprotected sex with you without wanting to further the relationship, to me is nuts. The fact that we were casually having sex. I'm casually having sex with other people. We're talking. I know you're having sex with other women. When the. When the conversation is that we're both out doing our thing and not really looking to be serious to me. At no point until you're ready to have some sort of an exclusive conversation should you even have the gall to ask me when you can fuck me.

[Weezy]

What if you guys are each other's main partners just because you don't want a relationship? Even if I think it's absolutely okay to have conversations about what level to take the sex.

[Mindy B]

Yeah, so cool. Have the conversation. I'm saying it's.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

It's.

[Mindy B]

That in no way is a question like, me and my friend responded the same way. If we're casual partners, I don't care if you're the main and I fudge you 10 times a month, but I only fudge another guy once every other month.

[Weezy]

That's an open relationship to me.

[Mindy B]

But that's what I'm saying. And for as long as everyone is fucking other people, I personally don't want any man, any of my boyfriends, any of my casual partners to ask me, so, when can I fuck you raw? Especially as a woman who has chosen not to want to have children and does not want to catch anything out here, like, bro. Like, I don't know. To me, cool. It could be a conversation for all of y' all out here that think it feels so much better. But to me, if you're in a casual Relationship. As a man to ask a woman, when can I get in them guts? Raw. As a man who's not pursuing anything further, I think it's a disrespectful question to ask.

[Weezy]

That's a dis. He asked you disrespectfully. But the conversation does come up between casual partners like that.

[Mindy B]

To me, I think it's a disrespectful question nonetheless. Like.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

For you in parentheses. And it's okay that it's disrespectful for you. For other people, it's not disrespectful. Right. For me, it's a conversation of how do you communicate, when do you communicate, and what are you communicating? A lot of people, they be. They talk, but they don't say shit, period. So there's a lot of people who never get to the point. And someone asking you outright, like, hey, when would it be cool for me to have sex with you without a condom? I think that that's a pretty good question to have if they have it. But it doesn't mean that it's a good question for you to receive on your end without the added piece around commitment. I was saying not only commitment. People don't know that until they know that. So if you don't say it, they don't know, which means they've got to ask.

[Mindy B]

Not only commitment. And I guess I can only speak so strongly about that. You have a chapter in your book that talks about communication with yourself. Yes. Right?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yes.

[Mindy B]

And how self talk is. Self talk is a real thing. And so I guess, like, where wanting to allow all of y', all, if y' all out here fucking multiple people raw, whoop dee doo in my goddamn Young Thug Boys, like, good for you. You know what I mean? But for me, I think why I can feel so passionate about that is because I've had those talks with myself. I'm very confident in how I feel and treat my body. And like, to me, I know I don't want pregnancy. I don't want an std.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I to don't want.

[Mindy B]

I know that I'm out here with multiple partners. I know that you have multiple partners, especially because the communication between me and my partners is so open and honest. The question about when you get to fuck me raw to me is crazy. Because if that's a conversation with me.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

But other people don't know.

[Mindy B]

Well, three or four times into fucking me, and I know you're fucking other people, I have to assume as well.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm saying, but he don't know you, right? Anyone. Anyone that is encountering you, you have to assume that they're encountering you for the first time. This is my first time in a room with y'. All. Like, I have been aware of y'. All. Y' all have never been aware of me, right? It's like when people be like, oh, I know Obama. Okay, boo boo, you know, TV Obama. You know over there Obama, you know, you know that one.

[Mindy B]

You don't know Chicago Obama.

[Weezy]

Right, right.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like, and even then, even if you know them, they don't know you. Right? Like, in my mind, I know Beyonce, but Beyonce, girl, I do too, does not know me. And I'm just like, true. That's okay. That's okay. So we'll talk about knowing someone. That means that they have questions. They're going to have questions. So however you do your sex life stuff, okay, Actually, however you do stuff in general, the point is this. No one can ever read your mind. And if you are expecting people to be able to read your mind and thus to perform according to what they presumed about you, y' all are always going to have a miscommunication. There's always going to be a misfire. And really, those are some of the seeds that sprout up these type of relationships that everybody says that they don't want because no one wants to take actual accountability, which is different from responsibility. Responsibility and accountability. Responsibility is task oriented. Accountability is outcome oriented. If the shit don't work out every single time, are you doing the same shit like, is your role in the thing? Nobody wants to talk about their role. We just want to talk about somebody else's role. So where it comes to that piece of it, I'm like, well, nobody knows whether or not it's okay to fuck you raw until they ask. So he did. What is responsible for him to do. If you. If you don't even like the outcome that someone would ask you this type of question, that's where you leave. Yeah. Like, hey, you and I are going to be sex partners. I am having sex with other people. You're one of seven or however. And I do not have sex with anybody raw who I'm not in a fully committed relationship with. So please do not ask, please and do not stealth, because that is illegal.

[Mindy B]

Oh, we talked about stealthing. And y' all can read about my stealthing story in the no holes bar, the dual manifesto sexual exploitation period.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I read it and I was just like, both of y' all were very raw and very real. And I said, thank you I noticed the connection between drink water, mind you'd business, and no holds bar. I was just like. And these things go together hand in hand.

[Mindy B]

Both hand in hand. So we're gonna get into our truth and error portion of the show, and we do truth and error. Because you gotta do both. We know everybody gonna choose truth. And I said, no, we're gonna get these hoes dare.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Truth and error.

[Mindy B]

Truth and error. You don't get to choose. You gotta do both. So for truth leaning into self esteem, I would love you to share with us because this is a vulnerable show. What is one of the biggest insecurities that you face in dating? And are you still dealing with it? If not, how did you overcome that insecurity?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Ooh, well, I'm so damn cute. It's just so hard.

[Weezy]

The worst, like, ah. The worst.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Pretty prison. Trying to date as a cute person. Like, ugh, goodness. Okay, let me see. But for real, my, like, I've been sitting in this, and I'm just like, I really do not know. And I think I don't know, because one of the things that often came to me while I was dating, particularly when I was in college, I went to the illustrious Morgan State University.

[Mindy B]

There we go.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

The premier HBCU in all the land. I said all the land. Yes. You with your hands.

[Mindy B]

Girl. They gonna get you a comment.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yeah, they gonna come for me. And that's okay because my bears got me. I know they do. I know they do. But by the time I. When I got there, what I encountered were the kind of dudes that would say things like, you're the marrying kind. I don't know what that. I was just like, oh, so then I can't just. We can't play I'm the marrying kind.

[Mindy B]

Cool.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

But then I met Mr. Boothang.

[Mindy B]

Okay.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Um. And I met him in 2005. I had a boyfriend when I got there.

[Mindy B]

Oh.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Hmm. Um, then I did not have a boyfriend for too much longer after that. And then it was me and Mr. Boothang.

[Mindy B]

Okay.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Um.

[Mindy B]

So your insecurity was that you felt like the perception of you was so wholesome that you didn't get to kind of have fun.

[Weezy]

Yeah.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I mean, and I didn't. I don't think that I knew how either. Right. I knew that my life had, up to that point had been about, how do you do for others? You know, Nigerian parents, doctor, lawyer, engineer. You have to be an example for your sisters. I'm the oldest of four, so it's like, you have to be the one to do everything correct.

[Weezy]

No, no, no, no. Give it to us harder. Make the accent harder than it.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You better not disappoint me. Do you think I came to this country for this thing? So it's like, okay, how do I do what they are asking in a way that still honors who I am.

[Mindy B]

But also get an orgasm.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Be on work. Be on college.

[Mindy B]

Fine.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And I'll say this. I didn't really succeed in that. I didn't start dating until after college, when me and Mr. Boothang broke up. Now, we did come back around, but.

[Mindy B]

Is Mr. Boothang your now husband?

[Weezy]

Yes.

[Mindy B]

Okay, Mr. Boothang. Okay.

[Weezy]

How long was the breakup? We actually just had an episode where we were talking about, do you need to break up in order for. To know if the relationship is worth it?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Ooh. We broke up more than once.

[Mindy B]

How many times?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

This is our third time. The third time's the charm.

[Mindy B]

Okay.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Um, so we got together in 2005, 2006, broke up in 2006, 2007, got back together for, like, two months in 2009. Okay, that's right. That's right.

[Mindy B]

Okay, so almost 20 years, though, of.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yeah, we got back together in, like, 2014, 2015. Been together ever since.

[Mindy B]

Okay, so 10 years.

[Weezy]

One year, two months, and then 10 years is such a. Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Because that second breakup was. Fuck you. Fuck you. Don't call me. Don't call me.

[Mindy B]

Who unblocked each other first?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Who did it? I don't block. Nobody. Oh, you leave.

[Mindy B]

You leave it open.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I don't block. I'm just like, don't call me Just.

[Mindy B]

But so who called who first?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I called it just like a woman.

[Mindy B]

Just like a woman.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

All of our friends deserve the right.

[Mindy B]

Okay, that's just as bad as being the blocker and unblocking.

[Weezy]

Does the double back come from you feeling lonely, officially feeling single, or were you just like, I want some dick? What was the reason for that?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I actually came to terms with the fact that I may very well just be single for the rest of my life.

[Mindy B]

Right.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like, it was one of those things where, like, it was after I had a date where a guy got on his knees in the mud, wrapped his arms around my waist, and said, you, womb is where I want to make my life. Now here's the problem. Whoa. Yeah, it was scary. This is the first. Number one, it's the first date. Number two, it was. Let's go on a. Let's go.

[Weezy]

No, no, no, no.

[Mindy B]

Amanda's at. On the first date. I'm calling the cops.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

9. One was in the vendor. We went to the botanical gardens. All of a sudden it emptied out. And I was just like, what? And I was just like, oh, gosh, I might die here.

[Mindy B]

Oh, I would be scared.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Uh huh. I was like, oh, oh, this is the end.

[Mindy B]

I want to live in your womb.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I was like, oh, that's okay. Yeah. Okay.

[Weezy]

Describe the aesthetic of this man.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I don't know why Hoteppe.

[Mindy B]

Oh, this was a white man. Oh, hell, girl down. Blaming you. You shouldn't have been out with him, girl.

[Weezy]

You had to go back and play.

[Mindy B]

Your bad.

[Weezy]

I'm done. No, no, no.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Come on. Number one, why are you doing that? Like, I got catfished just a little bit. Because I'm just like, well, the picture and the person who came did not match up.

[Weezy]

But.

[Mindy B]

And then he said that.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yes. And I. I was just like, we're here in this space. We're alone. I'm just like, how do I get back to my car?

[Mindy B]

You want to not end up flowers real bad, girl.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm just like, I'm not gonna be pushing up daisies. So I was just like, wow. Oh, okay. I mean, that's cool. We could. We could talk about. We could talk. We could talk about.

[Mindy B]

There ain't nothing to talk about.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I actually called.

[Mindy B]

Okay.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

She started screaming about us.

[Mindy B]

I'm excited. I'm about to make you talk because the dare the day. I'm gonna make you talk. Cover your ears, boo thang. So for this one, because we like to spice it up a little bit.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Okay. Let's keep it spicy.

[Mindy B]

Pretend that you're a phone sex operator.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Mm.

[Mindy B]

Give your opening line in character, in the sexiest tones to assure that the caller gets hooked. I need three sentences minimum.

[Weezy]

Ready?

[Mindy B]

And you gotta get.

[Weezy]

Hey, hey. I've got about 90 seconds. My wife's about to come back in this room.

[Mindy B]

Well, I just need to release.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Well, you know why you're here. I know why you're here. Release. You have my permission.

[Weezy]

I ain't asked for it.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Then get off the phone.

[Mindy B]

All right.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yeah, I would have. I would have asked for my word.

[Mindy B]

But I would have straightforward type something.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like, would you like to have sex with me? I'm not. I'm not baby voice. I'm not anything. I'm like, I. I am short. No, I don't goo goo. I don't gaga. I'm just like, hey, wait.

[Mindy B]

You've never sent a sexy text message to boo thing, like, while he was at work and you was like, ooh. I.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Pictures speak. I don't oh, you don't do that. I'm like, hey, you wanna have sex when you come home?

[Mindy B]

I'm not gonna hold you.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

That's it's a yes or no.

[Mindy B]

I used to tell Nick my sexy was let me get that nut later. You know what I mean?

[Weezy]

Nut emoji word.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I mean, sometimes I'll even be like, hey, you wanna be my sex toy?

[Weezy]

Oh, I like, that's cute.

[Mindy B]

I asked if I can be their sex toy. I always ask that.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I am never the sex toy. He is always the sex toy.

[Mindy B]

I know that's true.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I believe that it's reparations for orgasms loss from other women.

[Weezy]

That's funny.

[Mindy B]

I'm not bad at that.

[Weezy]

I'm good at other women and not in not just your.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Oh not oh no, not no no.

[Mindy B]

She said there's no problems here.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

There's no problems. There's no problem.

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[Mindy B]

Now I wanted to get into another segment. A little rebrand. Cause y' all niggas apparently we can't say homie. So from the bedroom to the courtroom, we're taking this bitch to court. Okay, I'm gonna play a clip and I want us all to decide if she is guilty or if she is innocent. Now when I play this clip, you are going to decide if she is actually guilty of having low self esteem and a lack of boundaries or if she is an innocent victim of a man.

[Weezy]

Okay, Probably.

[Mindy B]

Here goes the clip.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I feel like at this point I've been doing this situationship with Joel for over like 20 years and I really don't know what he wants.

[Mindy B]

I don't think he know what he wants. I'm glad you said yes though. You know, I don't want to seem too clingy.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

What do you mean clingy?

[Mindy B]

I don't know.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You're not clingy enough.

[Mindy B]

Like, it's homeboy, homegirl. I mean, I don't know what. Why you want to put a title on it?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

It's like, why am I here?

[Mindy B]

Why did you invite me out to dinner?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Why are you doing all this?

[Mindy B]

Why did you put the tablecloth and the candle and the flowers and all this extra stuff?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Ma'. Am.

[Mindy B]

Okay, you said you done. You've seen enough.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Oh, that is enough.

[Mindy B]

Is she guilty or innocent?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

She's guilty.

[Mindy B]

Guilty of.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Oh, my. Like, number one, it's not. Jeez. Okay, let me take a moment.

[Weezy]

Okay.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Okay. Number one, it sounds like there is some damaged self esteem there.

[Mindy B]

She's taking weight.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like it sounds like she knows what she deserves and she knows that she's not getting it. But she's also not doing anything about it. So I talk about self esteem on a spectrum. Being from secure self esteem. The next would be fragile self esteem. You die by the likes. So whether or not somebody compliments you will be the thing that either it gases up your entire day or it ruins your entire night. Damaged self esteem is the one I see most often in black women. Because inside we know, we know. But outside we don't say anything. We don't do anything different. Okay. And then there's vacant self esteem. It's just not there. You don't have it. Where do you find.

[Mindy B]

Where do you think she's at the danger?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I don't. I mean, because it's on the spectrum. She could be in several spaces all at once. But number I'm the place I had you pause. I'm looking like you're asking the questions to the wrong person. It's not why did you ask me out? It's why did you accept?

[Weezy]

Mm.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

20 years is two decades. That's two tens, y'.

[Mindy B]

All.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

That's two tens.

[Weezy]

Come on.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Ma', am, you could have two 10 year olds or one 20 year old child that is wild with the same.

[Mindy B]

Can I ask you then in terms of situationships?

[Weezy]

He ain't that cute.

[Mindy B]

Would you say that overall a woman in a situationship has low self esteem? Like, would you if she chose to.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Be in a situationship? If they're okay with a situationship, then really you have. You probably have secure self esteem. You know what you want.

[Mindy B]

Okay?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You've asked for what you want and you're behaving in a way that is also aligned with the thing that you want.

[Mindy B]

Now she clears once more.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

This is the. With love. With love. With love. I mean it. With love. This is the equivalent of saying that you are a spectator at a circus and that you don't know how this clown got here when you actually are in one of the rings. Because you too are a clown.

[Mindy B]

Oop.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

What up, Barnum?

[Weezy]

How long does a situationship last? Until you become the clown for staying in it. As the first clown.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You become a clown when you compromise. There's a difference between compromising and being compromised. The second you become compromised, you became one who wore the red nose at this circus. You gave up yourself. You gave up what you wanted. You gave up what you knew. You gave up what you liked in order to stick around with this dude that won't even. You just. You're my special friend. Now wait, if someone said you the friend that's all you is how long do women believe?

[Weezy]

Because this is how in my opinion, situations start. It's a man saying they ain't ready yet.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

If he ain't ready, move on.

[Mindy B]

Only you want something if you want something. I say that all the time.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

If I go to the Popeyes, drive through and they do not have the chicken ready and they tell me it's going to be like 20 years to, you know, 20, 20 more minutes till this chicken is going to be ready. I'm going somewhere else. I have to now decide whether or not I'm willing to wait here for the time where this thing is going to drop. And I think that we are forgetting the part where we have to ask ourselves, are we willing to wait? And women in particular are socialized to wait, socialized to give up of themselves in order to be with someone else and to believe that life starts if a man, specifically a man is present. Regardless of whether or not you are gay lesbian. As the day is long, they will still be waiting for your true comeuption when you are with a doom. So to see someone that pretty who's probably very smart in other areas of life but not exercising it here, it's like what are all of the circumstances and who contributed to the circumstances? Because I do not believe that she got there by herself. I think other people helped her to be there. I'm wondering who are the perpetrators in your life that help dress you in clown gear? Who drove you to the circus and told you to just wait five more minutes? Just wait five more minutes?

[Weezy]

I would like to say I do think some of these clowns paint themselves. Let me tell you why. I think a lot of the women that end up in situationships are fucking liars. I think they are telling these men that they really.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm good.

[Weezy]

I'm looking for casual shit too. I'm dating other people too. I have had so many women they.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Hoping to get yours. Oh, and you cannot be a picky.

[Weezy]

We cannot be that cool, bro. There's not that many cool girls in the world. I'm good if you good. Like if that's what all you look like. No, if you know you want love, suddenly we sound stupid for saying it out loud.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And it's like you can have both have the situationship while you keep shopping, right? To me it's like a job. No, I just put in your application. Now that I think is wrong. You don't say, I want to work at this company and that one only. And that's the only place I'm ever going to apply and hope here's why.

[Weezy]

I think it's wrong. What if that one job is really your North Star?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Let's just say the one job can be your North Star, but it doesn't mean that you don't work until you get the North Star.

[Weezy]

But the problem is if you got Netflix that picks you up for gigs sometimes and then let's just say there's a tubie here and there and the.

[Mindy B]

Other little fucking app that I don't.

[Weezy]

Fucking know, then you're saying like at the end of the day though, when you keep the situationship alive and just fuck other people, it's actually does kill the spirit a little bit because your heart is always tied somewhere and these women got to cut the cord because you never really gonna date for real if you don't do it.

[Mindy B]

My heart be tied to a lot of niggas then.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Okay, I'm hard to tie to one.

[Mindy B]

I mean, well, I mean to me, a normal person. When I say normal, like I don't. I haven't put a label on it, but all four of my partners are aware of each other. We text every day. Like there's time and time that we spend for each other.

[Weezy]

What situationship can we.

[Mindy B]

I mean, a situationship to me is something that's not. There's not a committable title. There's not like plans to move in or do things together. Like to me there's not a. When we think of relationships, right? There's normally this. I don't wanna say hierarchy, but there's normally a path, right? Okay, well, now we have the title after the title, then comes the baby or then comes moving in after that, then it's meeting the parents, then it's that. To me, I think a lot of people would identify the kind of relationships that I'm currently in is situationships. Because I don't have those markers to mark what these relationships are at any given point or the seriousness of them. Because to me we're like, I'm in a place where I genuinely want partners that I can enjoy life with. And so to me, if I'm talking to a person who believes in monogamy or who doesn't believe in someone being able to have their heart in space for a lot of different people at the same time. I think a lot of people would look at my situation as situationships. And I think that that's often what situationships are.

[Weezy]

I don't think a lot of people would because you have four of them a Situationship is generally described as someone that is doing all the things of a relationship, I. E. Title with no meeting the family, that is spending holidays together, and no title. So if you have multiple partners, you're dating casually. But a situationship is generally when there is an imbalance of like. Or I would even describe it as a relationship that confuses others and yourself. So, like, let's just say I'm like, he's not my boyfriend. We've all been around it. Y' all together. Oh, no, we're not.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

But y' all live together. Y' all got. They spending all this time together. Joint bank account, or they're sending all the photos.

[Weezy]

They're the person that you choose for all these things.

[Mindy B]

That's like a situation.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I'm saying that I've heard of some as a therapist, as a sex and relationship therapist. There have been many a person, male and female, who come into therapy talking about the relationship they're in, where that person calls them their friend. Oh, that is how they get introduced. Outside while being kissed on the neck. I'm like, the person kisses on the.

[Mindy B]

Neck as eight at night, but I'm your friend.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Create fights around certain large things, right? Like holidays. Valentine's Day is usually when a lot of people come because they realize that they are not whatever they thought they was. So people come around then they come around Christmas, they come around. Birthdays, birthdays. They come around like, I got this promotion and I was gonna go out to dinner, and this person basically embarrassed the dog shit out of me. I look like. Yeah, because you go with them, they don't go with you.

[Weezy]

Mm, that's angry. I think that's.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

That's your boyfriend, but you not their girlfriend.

[Mindy B]

That's the problem.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

And the thing is, you already knew that. Now you just acting brand new. I'm trying to figure out why we all acting brand new.

[Mindy B]

This is why they lying to keep.

[Weezy]

A situationship while fucking other people. Because I think you're just waiting for that person to speak.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I think that the fucking other people will help you out of that Damn.

[Mindy B]

And it will cause somebody gonna show up bellowing.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Somebody gonna show up. Word. Because part of the problem is that you have. There's a part where you're playing a zero sum game where it comes to a situationship. You are. You are now counting how much time, how much energy that you've put in, and you feel like if I pull out now, I've wasted all this stuff. I'm like, if you stay, you still wasted. If you. I'M not like. And on top of that, it doesn't have to be a waste because too many of us also see a relationship end as a relationship fail. It is not a fail to pivot to say that this thing actually doesn't work. The biggest failure that I've ever seen, I've seen a lot of people that didn't need to get married get married. That's a failure. Oh, you did not win because you got a ring. Congratulations. It's a shut up ring. And a shut up marriage with somebody who doesn't even like you and just wants you to shut.

[Weezy]

You lost the ultimatum, girl.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Word. Cause I'm just like, well, you got married, but what did you get?

[Weezy]

Men don't want you to go anywhere either because they comfortable with you right there. So if you saying, I'm going to.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Leave, you give them everything that they want, but they don't have to give you anything. It's the equivalent of saying, hey, I got this penthouse apartment. It's $20,000 a month. And I accidentally only charge you $300 a month. I'm supposed to call you and tell you, hey, you undercharged me, Please.

[Weezy]

You love an analogy, huh?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I love an analogy. My clients like an analogy. You know, like that Popeyes. Because I'm just saying that, like, sometimes you can see it differently if you take yourself out the situation, right? So if I, because I believe that anyone that I've met is a penthouse, I'm like, you are offering penthouse level benefits. It's nice, it's secure, it's clean, it's got nice windows, it got a beautiful view. It's at the top. It's lovely. And you are treating yourself like you that dingy apartment down on the corner, a basement apartment with no windows, with low ceilings, one bathroom and clearly like the sign of a dead body. So I'm just like, so you are treating yourself like you ain't shit. And I wonder why. I wonder who helped you to learn that that is your place? Because again, self esteem is not the individual's failing alone. It is the individual and their community. So I'm like, who taught you that your job is to lower everything there is about you in order to be accessible to somebody who's not supposed to have access to you. Sit where you are in the penthouse. If they can't, if they can't pay the rent, they can't come. You can meet them outside and have a good time on occasion, but they can't come upstairs. Leave their asses outside.

[Mindy B]

For women who find Themselves constantly in these situationships for women who constantly aren't being chosen, quote unquote or selected or given titles.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I mean, what you said is what.

[Mindy B]

I. I mean, because not chosen is.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

They also did not choose themselves. Oh, that's the part that I think gets lost.

[Mindy B]

And I talk about that while they.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Out here not choosing you, you're not choosing you either. So like have you seen that movie about the little white pig face girl, Penelope? No. I feel like I can't spoil it. She's a girl with the pig. With the pig nose. She got the pig nose. Wait, the cartoon bitch.

[Weezy]

I ain't got kids.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Penelope. It's not a cartoon. But it was a movie. It was like AI, Christina Richie. I don't know, I'm making up names.

[Mindy B]

Wasn't she Wednesday Addams?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Okay, I'm making up names. I gotta.

[Mindy B]

Penelope the pig.

[Weezy]

Okay, but what was it?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Okay, so basically Penelope.

[Mindy B]

Oh, you was right, by the way.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Her name is Christina Richie.

[Mindy B]

Christina Richie.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Watch me work.

[Weezy]

She was in Casper. That's how I know her.

[Mindy B]

Okay, she was in Casper.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Yes, that's the movie right there. Like if you about to be spoiled, just turn away.

[Mindy B]

And Reese Witherspoon, that's a white. I know. Okay, yes.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

So in this movie she has this nose. And the curse is that she will not be beautiful until you can get one of your own to love her, right? To want to be with her. And they think that means get a man to marry her knowing that she got a whole pig nose and that if she kisses at the wedding, boom, she'll be transformed. Cute nose, all that. What they didn't know is that it was not specific to a dude. One of your own must accept her. She had parents who didn't. She didn't accept herself. And that's how she freed. She freed herself because she was just like I like how I am. That's what got her the nose. That's what changed her whole appearance. I'm saying that in these situations people are doing the exact same thing. You didn't give it to you. You're waiting to be chosen. You didn't choose you either. That's the part that I find to be object number one. Not only sad, but it's the shit that pisses me off because it makes me look at mama differently. It makes me look at your daddy differently. It makes me look at what friends did you have growing up? And what the hell did society tell them to tell you to remove your self esteem in that way that it like it pisses Me off and makes me sad at the same time. Because under the systems of oppression that we have, nobody feels like they are indeed the shit that they are. Everybody feels like they some shit, not the shit.

[Weezy]

What are so damn like when getting stuck in these situations that might be almost a roadmap. Like, is it saying no? Like, what does choosing yourself look like?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

It's saying no and yes. I think that when we think of boundaries, we think of the no. I think of what's the part that if you say no to this thing, what can you now say yes to? Right? So if you're saying yes to a pleasure filled life, not just a pleasure filled bedroom, you would make different choices, right? Like the way that you talk to a partner about what you want sexually is very much full of your boundaries because it's about the things that you like and feel good for you and to you. Like, oh yeah, do that again, right? Like, oh yeah, do it faster, do it slower. You are, you are directing this thing so that you can reach the whatever pinnacle of pleasure you're looking for. For some people, just straight pleasure is fine. I mean, we don't need to go chasing orgasms though. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying.

[Mindy B]

To, yeah, give something, you should get it.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

But it's funny. It's like, how do you make your life orgasm?

[Mindy B]

And even with, with a partner, I think is important. Like, even like recently, like I've been talking about the things that make me happy. And also, is that something that I can enjoy with you as a partner? So whether it be traveling, whether it be certain foods, like, I'm not dating a nigga that don't like sushi. Cause it is a pleasure of my life and you're not gonna take it away from me.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

I date a man, I date my husband. And we don't like a lot of the same things. And it's okay because for me I'm just like, he's also not the end all be all. He's not the son of my universe. I am the sun. I am at the center. It doesn't exist without me, nor do I. In my orbit. And he is one person in my orbit. I receive lots of pleasure and I hope I give lots of pleasure to Mr. Boo Thang. But he is not the only source of pleasure in my life. I love that. Right? I have friends, I have family, I have other. I have other people in my life who I'm friendly with, but we're not friends. That's how I classify people. I'm like, yeah, we friendly. We not friends. All of these people can bring pleasure. And I can also give pleasure, both sexual and non sexual pleasure. Wherever I can spread it, I spread it. And I'm like, this conversation brings me pleasure. My husband is not facilitating that and he doesn't need to. So everything that I love, he don't have to. Everything that I want to do, he don't got to. We fell in love over a love of roller coasters, things like that. And I'm not even into those anymore. You cannot give me a ride, girl. You cannot just ask me if.

[Mindy B]

Cause I live in the south now and the fair is coming. And she's like, girl, you do the fair. And I said, bitch, not them rides. They put them up too fast for me.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

You put them up, you take them down. No, I need permanent fixtures.

[Mindy B]

But literally I remember that being like, oh my God, my mom's gonna let me go to the fucking fairgrounds. Especially growing up in Orlando, I just wanted cotton candy. Oh, that used to be the thing. Oh no, now I'm going college. That's what it is for the games. And the niggas was at the fair. It was there, there in the mall.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

People be outside. They was there, they was there.

[Mindy B]

Well, I do want to leave out of here with one last thing. In terms of your book, Drink water and mind you'd business, what would you want a reader to take away from it? And who do you think this book is specifically?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

This book is my love letter to black women. Black women are often not censored in these conversations about self esteem, which makes no sense to me. And there are like 5011 books outside about self esteem. And if you didn't mention racism, I'm trying to figure out what the hell you did right? If you didn't mention sexism, I'm trying to figure out what the hell you did. How did you forget the systems that are impacting people's ability to even access the self esteem that they had when they were kids and that people systematically took away from them. So for me, I know who the book is for. And the thing that I really want people to get from this is that when I say drink water and mind your business, I mean it literally. And I also mean it figuratively. So for me, the drink water. The dehydrated body does not have good orgasms, so drink your water, period. And because nobody else can drink water for you, so you have to do some work, but you also have to find the access to the tap to get it, which means Surrounding yourself in the community of people who will help to pour into you so that you can drink that. The mind your business is not the one that everyone else knows where. It's like, mind your motherfucking. No, no, no. Mind your business. As in the way my mom says it, face your front. Mind yourself. Mind your business. That means actually pay attention to what it is that you are doing. So for me, it's pay attention to what you are taking in, pay attention to what you are putting out, and pay attention to the things that you say you desire. Do they belong to you? Or do they belong to someone who has aggrandized themselves to believe that they know you better than you know yourself? Because people always think they know you better.

[Weezy]

I like that paying attention to what you say out loud is important. The universe listens to me crazy. I get every single thing I want and she gets a little too. I know this or that or I can do that. Even when it's a down thing you say to yourself. I think the best thing to tell others is, like, putting it out in the world that you hate something about yourself, even if you're alone in the room, isn't something any of us want to do.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Like, is it even true? Do you hate that thing about yourself? Or have other people hated that thing about you so much that you have decided to do their jobs for them and take it on as something that now you have to hate about yourself? Yeah, I think those are like, meeting yourself at various ages. And just, like, it's cute, right? Like, the idea, like, people like to push this thing. Like, you know, like, meeting me at this age versus this. I'm like, you probably never met you. I'm sorry, you probably haven't met you. What you have met is the version of you that you have pretended to be in order for other people to feel comfortable, for other people to feel like they own you, for other people to feel like they can like you. A lot of us are the exact people that our parents wanted us to be. We're not who we are. So did you meet you? Or did you meet the version of them, of you that they wanted for you? And at what point do you get to meet you and hold onto that? Because I think we have glimmers. We have those moments where we meet ourselves, and those usually are the moments where other people get big mad. And then we go right back to wearing the mask that makes them comfortable.

[Mindy B]

Girl, stop giving a book out, y'.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

All.

[Mindy B]

Drink water and mind your business. A black woman's Guide to unlearning the BS and healing your self esteem is available now wherever you get books like with us. Please, please please buy from your local black owned women owned, queer owned bookstores. Get it from Amazon, get it wherever you get your books. Sourcebooks.com it says that on the back so there goes that. Thank you doctor. Thank you for joining us. We appreciate you so so so very much. And where can everyone follow you? Maybe hire you because yes please, the call is working. Where are you sending them to?

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Donnaoriowo.com, you can follow me on Instagram rdonnaoriowo and from there you can get everywhere.

[Mindy B]

And those will also be in the description of this episode. Um, as always, thank you guys for tuning in and only because we talked about manifesting earlier. If you're in Atlanta, you can catch me now on Hot 179 off the clock from 6 to 8. Yes, your girl literally went to Atlanta. Got her own goddamn radio show like I said I would. So power of the tongue is real. Believe in yourself. Also, if you guys want bonus content patreon.com horribledecisions we ain't going nowhere baby. And also no holds barred. Available now wherever you you get booked.

[Weezy]

See you next week.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Bye y'. All.

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[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Stay connected with my sister during the holidays.

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She lives across the country.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

Shipt has tons of stores to order from. Groceries from Albertsons, crafts from Michaels, even pet supplies from petsmart. The list goes on. So when we have long distance movie nights, I turn to Shipt to get face masks, snacks and everything else we need delivered to her and to me same day. Download the app or visit Shipt.com that's.

[Vizio/Walmart Ad]

S-H I-P-T.com this holiday season, give the gift of incredible sound with Vizio's full Soundbar lineup available at Walmart. Transform any living into a home theater with rich, immersive audio that brings every movie, show and song to life. Whether you're gifting a loved one or upgrading your own setup, Vizio soundbars deliver powerful, crystal clear sound that turns ordinary watching into extraordinary experiences. Stream your favorite holiday Playlist with the iHeartRadio app and discover how good your music can truly sound. Head to Walmart.com and find your perfect Vizio soundbar today.

[Dr. Donna Oriowo]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Vizio/Walmart Ad]

Guaranteed Human.