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Decoded | Unlock The Secrets of Human Behavior, Emotion and Motivation
The Birth Portal: Why Boundaries, Emotional Resilience & Truth-Telling Matter with Carson Meyer
01:11:12
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- [00:00]
Fizzy
The process of birth is part of our life and death process because it is one of the biggest catalysts for emotional growth if you're present to it. And I do think that in the more westernized medical system, we do give away a lot of our agency and authority. Your brain is wired for deception. But here's the truth. Patterns can be broken. The code can be rewritten. Once you hear the truth, you can't go back. So the only question is, are you ready to listen? Hey everybody. I have known today's guest, Carson Meyer since she was a wee, itty bitty beautiful little teenager. And even back then, she had a rare quality. She questioned what others blindly accepted. And in a city that tends to worship image and approval, I immediately saw that she chose something deeper. She followed her instinct. She, she pursued the truth. And she was always one of the most caring young women I've ever met. Today, she's one of the most sought after duals in the country and the author of a stunning new book that I now have on my shelf. Growing Together. This features a week by week guide to pregnancy, birth and early motherhood. But more than that, this book is a return to inner wisdom in a culture that has completely left us empty. So thank you for writing this book and thank you for coming on one of the very first episodes of Decoded.
- [01:23]
Carson Meyer
Thank you, Fizzy, for having me on. It's so wonderful to get to chat with you and haven't seen you in so long, but it feels like no time has gone by.
- [01:33]
Fizzy
It really does. I think we just did the math and we've known each other for, it sounds like at least 13 years. We were counting by way of children that I've had. So I think 13 years seems to be the agreed upon number. And honestly, I can say for sure you have looked almost exactly the same since you were 15. So I think sometimes that happens with old souls because I know, same with me when I was was like in pictures of me at 9, 10, 11, I look almost exactly like I do now. Now I'm 40. So you've aged well and yet haven't aged at all. So congratulations on that. You're doing something right. So I've watched you definitely carve your own path, even from your youngest years. And I won't name names, but I remember vividly this one moment where we were having a conversation about you being on a private jet with some celebrity chicks who shall remain nameless and you were like, it's just so unfair. They get to eat whatever the hell they want. And like I'm over here eating bone broth, trying to manage my autoimmune symptoms. Like it's just not fair. And I remember just thinking, what a badass chick who's on a flight with these people, who's still holding steady to your inner wisdom. What you know is going to help heal your body. Even when you're watching these other sisters stuff their face with pasta, clearly only to I'm sure inject something or go to a cosmetic surgeon to maintain their look. So I've known since that that was the moment for me where I was like, this girl is different. You stand out in a crowd of people who worship image. And I've just always noticed that you've seen the world differently. What's the earliest memory that you have of realizing that you didn't fit into the Hollywood crowd that you were raised in?
- [03:15]
Carson Meyer
What a good question to start off on. You know, I think I don't know if I can pinpoint like the earliest. Earliest, but I do. And you know my mom well and she fits in in every crowd honestly, because she's just that kind of person. But I remember like being pulled aside a lot and just kind of like being raised with different values and she just had a really strong connection to like nature and just values that I was grateful to be brought up in amongst that world. And it's interesting and this isn't necessarily like a Hollywood connection, but something that somebody asked me recently and I was reflecting back on my childhood and I think was a big part of that was like my parents really always prioritizing nurture and kind of coming back to the book that even in like a really high priority profile and high stress and work and busy and just like a really fast big life, we slept in our parents bed until we were 14. There was never a time where we couldn't call them middle of the night, any time of the day. And that we were always really treated like we were the. Like family was more important than anything else. And so that feels like it's always been a part of life. But I remember being 18 and this is where I think so fondly back to I can remember us having that conversation. Maybe I was in college at the time and just. Just such vivid memories of spending time with you and learning from you and you being one of very few people in my life and that I've just. That really are out there who are unapologetically honest in such a way that leaves a really important imprint. And you did that for me. There's A doctor, a chiropractor who is also a doctor that has been helped me on my health journey. Dr. Monks, he was that for me. And you were never afraid of like what we would think or you know, what, what someone would think of you if you told the full truth or if you would keep your job or you know, if it would make someone feel bad or offend them. You're like, no, like this is what, this is what's healthy, this is what's right and I'm going to stand with it and not be afraid of that. So I've always admired that and I think that it was actually people like, like you in my life in a, in a world and environment that's very much for show who are willing to have that honesty that really.
- [05:53]
Fizzy
Thank you. And I will say your mom is malleable and can fit in anywhere, but she's also a wild woman. You can tell I've met many women in my life where I'm like, okay, they have like that true warrior woman spirit and your mom has that warrior woman spirit and I think she definitely infused that or imparted that into you as well. And I will say, just from being able to be in and out of your home over the years, it's so clear how much love that you, your brother, your dad, your mom, there was always just such a tight knit family dynamic which for many of you that might not have known about my earlier journey. I've been in and out of many celebrities homes and that is very rare. There are a couple celebrity clients that I worked with that had it, but more often than not there's a disconnect and a coldness that happens in the home where everyone has their role differentiation. There's like, you know, three different staff members. This person does the cooking and you lose touch with the actual close knit family connection. And although obviously you know, you lived a great life, I always felt that close knit connection between you and your family. So I'm not surprised that that got you to where you are today, where you're now bringing that into your own beautiful family. So I remember having some of these conversations with you early, even in early years of college about what you were going to do and where your passions were leading you. I do think that in a world again contrasted where everything's about image and even things, you know, I know this is a hot topic, but even things like vaccines. I remember back in the day when working for a few celebrity clients who were personally very opposed to vaccines, but then I saw them during COVID suddenly like a vaccine billboard. So we do know that there's this interesting facade that can happen in Hollywood culture where it's like, this is what I'm supposed to say and then this is what I actually do for my family. I wonder going into this career path that you did, there's obviously, it's a, it's a topic, especially around things like free birth, where people get very divided and people get, I think, very emotional about it. Knowing that you live in a, you were raised in a culture society that is divided and there is very much kind of this front facing facade that you're supposed to keep up. How did you reconcile being able to become a little bit more of this like wild, wild, back to nature version of birthing that you've brought into the world, especially through your work in the book.
- [08:26]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, you know, I think in, in that world it's, there's so much criticism all the time. And so I have a lot of compassion and understanding for like why that happens. Even though it can be, it can, it can feel, it can be upsetting to watch too, because you're like, oh yeah, that's not what you believe and I know that's not what you stand for, but here you are promoting it or being like persuade in another direction of it so easily. And, and yeah, I think that like so much criticism will do that for some people. Just completely break them, break them down. I was pursuing acting for a large part of when you knew me. And side note, you helped me really feel confident in a role where I was in my bathing suit, I think the whole time. That's why I work together. But it was, I think eventually kind of like departing from that was where I felt. It just felt authentic. And some people can really stand the heat and do that gracefully. And that's not, that's not me. And so it felt so, I guess, like liberating to be in a field where I am so much more authentic to who I am, to be in a field as a doula where I could really help support women and like advocate for these ideas and ways that I really believe in and that were so important for me, to me and that I really believe are what change, what will change the world. Michelle Odent says in order to change the world, we have to start with birth. And I think sometimes I can get really overwhelmed with all of the topics, all of the things that I care about, all of the things that are maybe going wrong or yeah, like where, where we can apply ourselves to make the world a Better place or to kind of like, use our voice. And for me, when I discovered this work, it all made sense. I was like, oh, if you start with birth, there's a profound simplicity that actually, in my belief, like, just trickles into every single aspect of our existence and past and present and future.
- [10:45]
Fizzy
It is a radical paradigm shift. And I think, you know, that I've had four kids and every single birth has been radically different from the other one. And I will say that my home birth experiences, both for good and for bad, have been a radical paradigm shift for me in how I present in the world, my level of emotional resilience. I've talked quite a bit about on my Instagram, how the process of birth, I think, is part of our life and death process because it is one of the biggest catalysts for emotional growth if you're present to it. And I do think that in the more westernized medical system, we do give away a lot of our agency and authority. So then we're kind of told what to do. Therefore, we're not really present to what's unfolding during the pregnancy. We're kind of just this passive, helpless bystander, which is arguably not what's supposed to be happening, spiritually and otherwise. So in this process of birth, do you have. I'm sure you love the whole process, but is there one phase of the birthing journey that you feel more drawn to or that you feel like is somehow more spiritual or connected than another?
- [11:58]
Carson Meyer
Yeah. So I think, I mean, I think they're all equally relevant. Pregnancy being one that allows you this really long Runway of integrating. I think that there's. I write about my book, the final weeks of pregnancy being a portal within themselves, because so much comes up around being at this precipice, feeling pressure from, you know, to induce, having us question where we stand with that. Is it the feeling of, like, anxiety, of wanting to just have it be over with? How are we physically feeling? What are the fears and pressures from others? And then, like, as we face this massive change, no matter how many kids you've had before, each one changes you just having to really sit with that discomfort. And so I think that even there, we often don't think of those last few weeks of pregnancy as potent. And in my book, I talk about using that time to, like, stop reading your book, stop preparing, stop Googling, and to be in your creative self. And so, like, even it doesn't matter if you. You're not a painter or you don't kind of fancy yourself an artist, but get out of canvas, like start doing those things, like get into that soft, softer mindset that's of kind going to help you prepare for birth and be in that state of flow and creation. And then, of course, birth carries such a profound. Is a profound portal. And for me, another big part of what I write about in the book and from my experience was so special. And I think we often in our culture don't see it that way. But the postpartum time, and I actually didn't welcome anybody into our home aside from our postpartum doula for the first three weeks after birth. And this is because I believe that that fourth trimester, that sacred window, is a really crucial integration for mom and baby and dad and the whole family, and a process that should not be rushed.
- [14:12]
Fizzy
And it is seemingly socially acceptable for parents and family and friends to apply pressure because they want to meet the baby. Do you have any tips that maybe new moms or moms to be can utilize to exercise their boundaries and maybe articulate why this time or space is so important?
- [14:33]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, so I have a chapter in my book called the Bubble of Peace and about this exact thing. And that children thrive with boundaries. They want boundaries. And for so many of us until parenthood, we may not even have our own, and even through parenthood sometimes, but that these situations come up, be it, yeah, an in law who is eager to come hold the baby right away or a friend who wants to be in the birth, at the birth, or even somebody at the grocery store, you know, telling you a story or telling you something, like projecting something onto you about birth. And in the chapter, I talk about how, you know, these, these situations arise to help us strengthen our boundaries, which will ultimately, everything is in service to what's on the other side of birth. Will help support us in parenthood so that we can have stronger boundaries for our kids, with our children, because it doesn't stop after birth. Like, this will continue to happen. And our role as parents is to be that for our children. And so I say, like, don't. Don't let these situations annoy you or upset you or like, make you feel like you're failing them. Like, use them, use them to strengthen. And then also with the bubble of peace, just like creating an energetic boundary because sometimes it's not something that you can control because maybe you're in a public space and somebody's saying something, or maybe you have a family friend who's really afraid of home birth and is like constantly putting that on you and how you can energetically Separate yourself, push that energy away, and create the seal of the bubble of peace. But really, it comes with practice. And I talk about how, like, the more we practice creating those boundaries, practice using our voices, the stronger they become. And it takes, I think, personal assessment of seeing where and why we don't feel worthy of having them, or we feel that if we are going to have them, we won't. Maybe we'll lose that love or connection or feel like we owe it to somebody else to give them that.
- [16:50]
Fizzy
What if? Because, as you know, I work with couples all the time, and this is a scenario that I see come up quite a bit. What if the pressure is not necessarily from outside, but from the husband to invite other people?
- [17:04]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, that can be really tough.
- [17:06]
Fizzy
Yeah.
- [17:06]
Carson Meyer
And that's where I think it's talking about it before, and that's what I say. It's like, it's a lot easier to be dealing with this if you've had the conversations through pregnancy, come up with a game plan, and helped each other understand your perspectives in pregnancy versus you're in it, and all of a sudden you're in this, you know, perhaps battle of, like, push and pull of who wants what. So I think the best thing you can do is just create a dialogue in pregnancy around. Yeah. How. What. How you envision the postpartum portal. I do think. I mean, I believe, obviously, a father's needs and role in this process are equally important, and the mother's doing very unique and different work through pregnancy, birth, and the initial postpartum. And I think as a child gets older, these conversations change within a relationship dynamic. But it's not just the shared baby that's being born, but the mother has also gone through a tremendous physical transformation. And so I do have a bias that the mom's needs need to be honored in that time because she, too, is healing, figuring out breastfeeding, bleeding, needing rest. Her womb is still, you know, her organs are still coming back together. Her womb is still kind of closing and, like, energetically is changing and transforming and still wide open. And so, yeah, I do think that it's important for the partner to. To recognize that and honor that in the consideration. And for some couples, there's ways that you can kind of make both work and compromise in a way that makes everyone feel good.
- [19:00]
Fizzy
How soon is too soon to start having these conversations once someone gets pregnant?
- [19:05]
Carson Meyer
I don't think it's ever too soon, really. I think it's. It's okay to be like, having them before you get pregnant and then for them to change as your needs change. Right. But like, you know, one little more kind of practical tip for couples who do feel that both want to have visitors, but to limit visitors is have the partner be the. The keeper of the space. So maybe there's a code word that mom uses when she's ready for her partner to be like. And you know, now we're gonna.
- [19:37]
Fizzy
And scene.
- [19:39]
Carson Meyer
And now we're gonna go. If you do decide to have people in the space. And that does feel good. Making sure that you've also talked about how those people are going to show up because it's not for us. It felt better just. No, we love our family, but we knew that like my mom wasn't going to come and cook free meals. Like that's just not how she shows love and support. So. But if you do have a family member like that, making sure that you're. I say that we don't have a language really in our culture around postpartum care. Like it is not. It is something that has been so dis. We're so disconnected from and so long forgotten that we have to reteach our village how to care for new mothers. And so if you are welcoming people into the home and you have decided that's best, get on a game plan of what you think you're going to need, what you know you're going to need, what you anticipate needing, what you're. Ask friends what you. What they. But you, you know what they needed. And that can help you understand what you're going to need and then give those people specific jobs because ultimately everyone wants to just feel important.
- [20:46]
Fizzy
I think that's beautiful advice and I will say with my last baby, I had a postpartum doula and it was a complete radical game changer. I wish that I had done it every other time prior. It was the best gift that I could have had because it does take some of the pressure, especially for somebody like me. I'm just naturally a caretaker and I'm extremely self sacrificing even to my own physical detriment. So one of the most challenging things for me in those early weeks of postpartum is trying to keep myself still and not and kind of fighting that urge to go cook for my family or clean because I want to be of service and I want to do the things. So I think having the postpartum duo for their. For that last one actually let me sit and be with my baby and I didn't have to worry about cleaning or cooking and we did meet ahead of time and go over, you know, how, how do you want me to show up in your space? Do you want me to help with the other kids if they need help, or do you want me to let you do that? So I do think to some extent having those conversations is. I think it's kind of the make it or break it for postpartum and whether if you can't afford a postpartum doula, you know, I couldn't either the first three. So you're not alone on that. But in that case, then you'd really need to have some really solid communication with your partner because right then you're. You and your partner have to come up with a co. Clever way to split the duties.
- [22:08]
Carson Meyer
Yeah. And I've, I do, I've just, I've heard a lot of dads say, why do we need that? I'm gonna help. Like, we're good. Why would we need that? Right? Or I like to cook. It's all good. And that's, I always say, like, what a loving. And I hear this with birth doulas too. Like, that's just coming from such a place of love and generosity. And even moms will say that I don't need a postpartum doula. Like I'm, I'm, I'm really, I just bounce back after birth and start doing my thing. And it all comes from such a place of love and generosity and wanting to give. But the more both parents can be present in the moment, like what a gift. You don't get that time back. And so I say to the, you know, for the dads who love to cook and love to be of service in that way, there's going to be so many opportunities for you to do that later. But allow both of you to be taken care of and even still you'll have a lot of work to do. But allow both of you to be taken care of because then you get to really kind of be in the stillness and the connection of it.
- [23:04]
Fizzy
And I think that stillness on a subconscious level is actually what some people are trying to avoid. I know, myself included on this show. We talk a lot about brain pattern types and I was mentioning that mine is more that drive to easily self sacrifice, put others first. Ultimately those things prevent me from ever being in stillness and doing nothing, which is ultimately what I really needed to do to connect with my baby. I had this really unique experience. I have two boys and two girls and my son Zev. We were talking about this when we first were starting off the podcast, I think. I mean, I had met you, I think, probably a year or a year and a half before he was born. But I also knew after he was born, I was working so hard immediately after he was born. I remember he was born October 20th. I had a photo shoot for, like, German Shape magazine at the end of November. So I just. I literally had my baby, and then I went right back to work. I have a picture of me holding my baby in my office when he was maybe eight days old. And I remember vividly this one day when he was 10 months, going into his crib to go give him a bottle and looking at him and being like, what? I don't remember raising this child. Where did the last 10 months go? Have I been asleep? Have I been a walking zombie? And it was literally, like, looking at my kid for the first time. And I was overwhelmed with guilt and sadness and, like, every emotion that you could possibly experience, because I knew I would never get that back. And my son and I have a great relationship, and he's an exceptional young man, and he says his childhood was the best, but I wasn't present for it. So much so that I literally have massive gaps in the first 10 months of his life. So I do think that for some of us, just from the level of brain pattern type and how we perceive reality and then respond from that place, if you're a doer and you like to stay busy, you can literally accidentally miss your kid's childhood if you're not paying attention. And I do think that having a PostPartum duo that SEC or the. With my second son really showed me the contrast of what it's like to be taken care of and being able to sit on the couch and stare at your baby in the eyes for four hours, like, I'd never done that before.
- [25:24]
Carson Meyer
Which has all these different physiological benefits, too, beyond the memory and the experience, but, like, just from, like, a neural pathway for you and baby, for milk supply, for healing, for. Yeah. Postpartum depression. So there's so much value. And I want to say, as you mentioned, like, not being able to afford postpartum doulas. There is something. I don't know if you're familiar with Little Honey Money, but a friend of mine started this company, and I love it, and I think that it's helping to shift the conversation around what we invest in and what we spend money on and also how our village shows up for us. Baby showers. Baby registry is just really the only cultural thing we have right of passage or ceremony that we have in honoring maiden to mother and it usually includes showering the mom and baby with a bunch of stuff and things that she'll probably never use and gadgets that will just end up in the landfill. And so little honey money is all about having instead of it be those gadgets and toys and clothes things that you can get hand me down secondhand. And again, really don't really need often is funding postpartum doula, funding a postpartum therapist, maybe a meal delivery and the things that moms actually need to be present. And I always say like babies need a car seat, some diapers or not if you're doing elimination communication. But at the end of the day, all they really need is a healthy mom that's well cared for.
- [27:02]
Fizzy
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- [29:16]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, we're, we're, I think, selling moms on this idea that if you attain a certain amount of stuff, you're prepared. And I see this all the time with moms, like when, when they want to, you know, do a consult, they're like, okay, what do I need for their nursery? And I'm like, oh, like, this is a way of trying to feel like you can check something off your list. Off, check this box so that you can feel ready. But this is why, like, I think my birth is so different than so many on the market. It's because it's like that's a very, very small percentage of what it really means to be ready. I never even had a nursery for my daughter.
- [29:56]
Fizzy
Well, I do think it's, it is a control based mechanism to control your outcome via physical objects. And I think that was one of my favorite parts about your book. When I started to look through it was the level of emotional intelligence that you teach throughout your book and how that ultimately is the best preparedness for birth that you can get. And obviously taking into consideration all the other holistic aspects of the birth process that have to go in tandem with that. But you do such a wonderful job in the book about talking about how to prepare yourself emotionally because pregnancy and birth are going to push you in a variety of ways and there are always unknowns. I think many people that have followed my career know that my career really begun after a very traumatic birth with my first daughter who now has cerebral palsy. And I love the whole arc of my journey from starting off with that birth when I was 25. And I'll give kind of the very, very short summary. I had a home birth on the, on the Big island of Hawaii and we were in a very rural area and I Was actually thinking about this last night when I was thinking about our podcast, because I realized there's actually this one really pivotal moment that I wanted to bring up, because I don't think I really. Maybe I was too afraid to acknowledge the pivotal moment up until yesterday, which. My daughter's turning 15. So sad that it took me 15 years to get here. But on the island where I lived, there were really two prominent midwives, right? When you're. When you're in a very small rural community, it can be like that. And one of them was regarded as the midwife, right? Like, she was the one that everybody wants to be with. And I actually originally started my journey with her. And when I look back on it, it. After all was said and done, I really firmly in my heart of hearts believe that this other midwife would not have made this mistake leading my daughter now having cerebral palsy. But working with this midwife, we got to probably, like, appointment number two or three. And this woman was known as just very tough. Like, tough, cut the shit attitude, and was very much a traditional midwife, so was very opposed to ultrasounds and all of that, right? She. I feel like I don't know what the tool would be called. You'd probably know what it was called. But almost looked like a smoking pipe that she used to. Yes, but it was like wood or something. It was very, very traditional. So going through this whole process with her, she kept. I'm a really stubborn person, and that's served me in a variety of capacities in my life. But the way that she kept trying to meet my stubbornness, I think really worked against us in this scenario, because at one point, she's like, you're not gonna be one of those neurotic people that's just gonna, like, basically call uncle midway through your birth and go to the hospital, right? And she kept, like, taunting me. And I look back on it and think, I. By the way, I love this woman dearly, and I think she's a brilliant midwife also. I wonder if she hadn't have taunted me that way, because I think at that point, I was so fresh in my birth, my first pregnancy experience, that to have somebody push me like that, I was like, why should I? Why am I trying to prove myself to you that I'm tough? This seems ridiculous to me. And my stubborn nature was like, so screw it. I'll go to the other midwife. So I was like, it just doesn't. This doesn't feel like a part of the birth process that felt nurturing. To me, you know, and looking back on it, ironically, you know, again, had I stayed with her, I doubt, sir, I would have cerebral palsy. But also, I do believe everything's meant to happen for a reason. And I. My entire career and my entire journey is a byproduct of having to go through that specific experience with Sarai. So I'm grateful for all of it. And she's obviously turned out to be such an amazing young woman. But I wonder, in your just your opinion about how midwives or doulas show up to the space, there is a certain level of toughness that you have to bring out in your client and resilience. I just wonder, like, what's your opinion on this approach? And what is. What's the line like, where's the balance point where you try to bring out someone's resilience without challenging them in such a way that they shut down? Cause I. I really felt like looking back on, I'm like, oh, yeah, that really, like, shut me down and made me want to just, like, push this whole thing away.
- [34:24]
Carson Meyer
Yeah. No, thank you so much for sharing all that. And it's so interesting. I mean, I've gone through this so many times with clients with midwives with. I've seen them change for this exact reason. And it's interesting. It's interesting to think why we seek it out in the first place, why some turn away from it, why some love it. And I don't. I don't know if there's. I certainly don't think, like, oh, this is how midwife should be, or they. Or they shouldn't. I think that there can be value in different ones. And I always say there's a different doula for. There's a doula for everyone. There's a midwife for everyone. And I actually started off and throughout my pregnancy with a very similar type of midwife, and I made a change, similar to you, for one, who is a lot softer ultimately. So I can really relate to that. And I've had many clients do. Do the same thing, and then I've had clients who. But. But I kind of. I wanted to experience both of it, but.
- [35:21]
Fizzy
And.
- [35:21]
Carson Meyer
And ultimately what I needed in. In birth was the softness. I know you're saying that you think had you chosen the harder one, and it would have been a different outcome. Do you feel at all like ultimately, aside from just you being grateful for it, being a teacher for you and experience, do you feel like there was any. Any reason that maybe, like, unconsciously you. You chose and Made that switch that benefited.
- [35:52]
Fizzy
I think I thought I was picking somebody who was softer and more nurturing, who in my mind had equal experience. But it turns out what happened during my birth was 100% midwife error. And every midwife, like, in the history of the last 15 years of my life, any person who's ever heard my story, they always stop me at this one point and they're like, please tell me. She put her fingers in and guided out her chin. And I'm like, nope. So it's like every midwife pretty much in the world, except mine, apparently, would have done the right thing and I wouldn't have had this experience. But I guess that's, that's. It's kind of another complex question, right? Because you look on paper and it's like sometimes a midwife on paper, like, it looked like they both had 30 years of experience and 30 years of people being like, oh, I love her, I love her. Right? Because you. All you can really go off of is someone's referral.
- [36:45]
Carson Meyer
Yeah. Well, I think what's also like coming up and hearing that is back to the boundary conversation. Right. With. For the midwives. And I see this a lot within you mentioned free birth and the free birth community and the desire to uphold physiological hands off birth. This kind of feeling like it is never a doula midwife, like, should never, ever intervene because that interrupts nature's brilliance and birth. And what I really respect and admired from both of my midwives who I got the privilege of working with because I kind of. I got to have two in switching and they both serve this important part was that they both, even though they were both considered hands off and, you know, respectful of what I wanted, they had boundaries. They're like, no, I will intervene here. I actually know that by, you know, like you said, sticking my hand and helping to guide, you know, the chin, that will actually, that's important. That's where my skills come in and that there comes a time where I do. And I hear this a lot in a lot of, A lot of birth stories or freebie stories. It's like, it's a delicate dance, right, between honoring the. The sovereignty or like allowing. Allowing birth to unfold undisturbed and to trust it. And that we hire these professionals to support us and to bring in their wisdom and experience and to have their own boundaries as professionals of where they feel it's necessary in their role to intervene. Right. It's like such a complex.
- [38:21]
Fizzy
I mean, it sounds like overall the ultimate theme of this entire show is boundaries and expectations are absolutely critical. And I do think that in society we are pitched this idea that we shouldn't have expectations and that expectations are a setup somehow. What is your take on being very clear on expectations as it pertains to the birth process or even like what articulating what your expectation is of your husband and kind of role differentiation? How would you navigate this in the birth space?
- [38:57]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, I think it's such an important interview question in your. With any provider that you hire or just anybody that's going to be around you is what you, what you expect, what's important to you, and how they can meet you there or not. Like, to know that is really important too. Yeah, it comes back to the conversations, I think, in pregnancy and that it's okay to expect certain things from certain people, and it's also okay to leave and change your mind and to seek out that additional support from other people if you're not getting it from them.
- [39:37]
Fizzy
When it pertains to a birth plan, because I know that this is discussed in your book. Similar sort of concept. There's this fine line between obviously you want a birth plan, you want to conceptualize or bring to life the idea of what you want and what you don't want. How does one come up with a birth plan yet also remain flexible for nature to do its thing?
- [40:01]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, and that kind of ties back exactly to expectations. What are expectations of ourselves, of our births, of our babies, of our experience. I talk, I have different ways of kind of utilizing the birth plan or the birth intention. One is, and I always preface it as this is, and that's why I call it the birth intentions, because we can't really plan how birth's gonna go. We can't plan what it's gonna look like or necessarily what we might need from it. But we can absolutely create intentions and set ourselves up for feeling more support around the whole experience. And so a part of the book I kind of, I talk through, like specifically hospital, like, what different interventions you can choose from or not choose from. You know, the studies behind them, pain medication, all of that. And I invite the reader to create a birth intention sheet where they really like look into each of these and then put it onto a document and so that they can bring it to their provider and talk through these together in pregnancy. I also think it's really valuable as a tool because if you're going into the hospital and meeting your birth team for the very first time, that you're not going to be in the state where you're going to want to talk through these things then, and this can give you them a roadmap to understand your preferences. But none of it is set in stone. None of it is. All of it is moving and changing and flexible. Um, and that you kind of put in that preparation and then throw it away and kind of step back. And I don't mean throw it away as, like, forget everything you learned and don't. Don't apply it, but to not attach to it, but to be present in. In its evolution. And so there's that birth intentions. But then I also have a chapter on just how you emotionally want to show up. What are your intentions for yourself? What are your expectations for yourself, for those around you? So, clinical things aside, you know, whatever this day brings, like, what are. What do you want it to look like and how, you know, we can't always have control over what birth brings, but, like, how do you want to show up for it? And what is an intention you want to set for that in that day, in that season, and how can you achieve that?
- [42:15]
Fizzy
I think that's a beautiful, beautiful juxtaposition, because really, everything about birth is that it's like, be prepared and then also be prepared for anything. So you've got to create what your desire is or what your desired outcome is. And then you basically just have to surrender. I think big picture, if I look at all four of my births, the ones where I actually surrendered went great. And the ones where I was very much in fear and anticipating every next step or every next transition, it just makes it almost impossible to let go. And that's actually physiologically stopping the birth process. You know, at a certain point, one of my midwives had to look at me and be like, you know, I need you to relax. You're literally stopping your own birth right now. And I'm like, okay, gotta calm down.
- [43:01]
Carson Meyer
What was it like for you going from home birth? And I know your second was a hospital birth back to home after a really traumatic first birth.
- [43:10]
Fizzy
So in the birth process, I love my whole birth trajectory was obviously home birth gone wrong. Then I had a hospital birth very much against my will. And actually, my people are always shocked by this. My hospital birth, out of all four of my kids, was by far and away my most traumatizing. Even though what happened with Sarai was horrific. And for a while she did die for 20 minutes. And I thought I was also going to die being in a hospital environment. And I, you know, I did all of the things that you're supposed to do right. At the time, I was working for Julia Roberts. I had our, you know, shared pediatrician there the whole time during the chain of custody to make sure my child wasn't vaccinated. All that. I had prepared all that ahead of time. But once you're actually in the hospital, I forget what the name of the one is in Santa Monica Saint something. But it was that hospital. And I literally, as soon as I walked in there, it was like I lost all of my autonomy and my rights, and I had to fight for everything that when I had originally spoken to them, I wasn't supposed to have to fight for any of these things, but any. Any intervention that they wanted to give me, even something like putting on a heart rate monitor or having an IV line. And I was like, no. I literally chose this hospital because I'm declining that. No. And the nurse would just keep coming in and badgering you over and over and over again. And at a certain point, my entire birth got completely hijacked. And somehow, during a nurse shift change, I had been laboring all night and was great. I was in the shower. I was, like, actually really in, like, for the most part, enjoying my birth. And I had had my doula, who was in Hawaii on FaceTime. So I was with my doula all night, shout out to Laurel, you're amazing. And going into the morning, I was like, okay, this is great. I'm feeling really good. I'm not tired. I felt like I sold so much more energy. And there was a nurse shift change, and the nurse came in and was like, oh, we haven't had this baby yet. I don't think so. And then walked down. I was like, excuse me, What? And next thing you know, a bunch of these doctors were coming in, and they forced me to have an epidural, which I did not want to have. I was like, I'm fine. I've been laboring all night. I'm good. And they're like, that's exactly why you have to have an epidural. They tried to say that I basically was too tired to make decisions for myself, and I was not at all tired. They forced me to have an epidural. And the epidural kept only working on half my body. So when they would give me the pain test or whatever, I'm like, yeah.
- [45:39]
Carson Meyer
And just feeling all of it. Yeah, Half so much worse.
- [45:44]
Fizzy
And check this out. They tried to redo my epidural three times. On the third time, I told them point blank, I'm about to push. And they're like, you couldn't possibly feel that. I was like, I know that I'm about to push. I was literally on my side. They were. Still had the. The spinal tap needle in me. And they were like, she was right. She was right. She's crowning. They pull it out. I have the baby. But at this point, they had overdosed me with whatever is in epidural. I'm very sensitive to it. By the time I was holding my baby, I was shaking so wildly that my whole body was like this. I couldn't even hold my baby. And they had to then take my baby because they're like, it's not safe for her to hold them. So then, because they overdosed me, I couldn't hold my baby. And it just started this whole slew of, like, horrific things. But basically my birth went from basically six hours on my own, pretty much being left to my own devices with a nurse who was pretty great, to just in one shift change. The next four hours of my life were a complete and utter living hell where I basically felt medically kidnapped, honestly. And that was far more traumatizing to me than anything else because it literally felt like it just robbed me of my birth. And even I did love my doctor, but even when I was about to start pushing, at one point, he, like, gets up in my face, and he's from Israel. And he was like, busy. Look at me. Cut this yogi breathing and do what I'm asking you to do. And I was like, okay. Because I was just. I was so. I was trying to be relaxed, and I didn't. I was trying to calm myself down from everything I'd just been through. So just to have all of that aggression and people try to force me and then really gaslight me. Right. You're too tired to make these decisions. I'm not. I'm. I'm well aware of how I feel, and I don't feel tired at all. I ate food. I'm hydrated. So that, to me, was by far and away the worst experience. And after that, then I knew for sure I would never. That was never even an option for me. I would never give birth in a hospital ever again.
- [47:50]
Carson Meyer
Yeah.
- [47:51]
Fizzy
And I think for a lot of people that hear what happened with Sarai, they find it so hard to believe that I could ever go back to having a home birth. But to me, just the foils of having Sarai and then having that experience in the hospital, you know, could something like Sarai, what happened to her, happen again? Yes. But I. I've talked to so many midwives over the 15 years of my life that, like I said, everyone knew what to do except her. So I don't know why that was part of my cards and Sarai's cards, but I really just think that it was a random fluke that maybe spiritually, for some reason, was supposed to happen. And going back to having my next two births at home, it was such a beautiful return and healing for me of what the birth process could and should be. Like Harley, who was my third, she was my biggest baby by far. My birth, actually, with her was really challenging. That was probably, like, my hardest actual birthday because she was, like, over nine pounds. She was a big girl. She had a big head. And that was my husband Gordon's first baby. So when she first came out, he didn't. I saw the look on his face, and I'm pretty good at reading people, but I didn't. I didn't step in that trap right after the birth. But a week later, he was like, babe, when I saw her head, I was really worried that, like, something was terribly, terribly wrong because she was just so big. Her head was very smushed. But that one was beautiful. And just being able to, like, be at home and stay at home, and we had everything prepared, and I. I mostly labored in the water with her. And then my last one, I think, was by far and away my easiest birth. And it was such a gift to my husband and I because it was the exact opposite of Harley. So he kind of got to have these two foiled experiences as well. I was so convinced I wasn't in labor with River. My midwife was laughing at me. I was like, you know, I'm just gonna, like, run down the street and go get a coconut water. And she was like, busy. You're not gonna make it. I was like, what do you mean I'm not gonna make it? She was like, I guarantee if you take one foot of walking steps, your waters break. And I was like, what? So I go, of course, stubbornly, to go walk across the street to go get a coconut water. And sure enough, I look at my husband. He was like, babe. I was like, okay, we'll turn around. So that birth, I was literally asleep in the tub thinking, oh, my God, my birth stalled. This isn't gonna happen. And my midwife just taps me on the shoulder. And she was like, I think you're gonna have the baby now. And I was like, what? No. I'm, like, literally sleeping in the tub. I had the water, like, up to my face and was just so relaxed. My husband was in the next room listening to a podcast. I didn't even have to, like, pull on him. So I basically, like, did this one totally solo. And then I get up out of the tub, and I literally had river, like, three and a half minutes later. And then I was eating pizza in bed, holding my baby for hours. So it is possible. And I often wonder when I see people with, like, seven, eight kids, I'm like, based on the birth experiences I've had, like, hell, no, I would never do that seven or eight times. But if it was the birth that I had with river that I could totally see, because it was beautiful. And for me, it was the. It was the final healing that I needed to know that I was personally done with my motherhood journey and that.
- [51:01]
Carson Meyer
Four kids was really a full circle.
- [51:04]
Fizzy
So full circle for me.
- [51:06]
Carson Meyer
And just how you support and show up for women and couples. Like, I really believe that sometimes these life experiences happen to enrich how we show up for others.
- [51:17]
Fizzy
Absolutely. And I have no. At the end of the day, I have no regrets. I think looking back and reflecting on that one moment yesterday was really more just. I wish at the time I knew more about myself and could stand up for myself at that time rather than just kind of pull back. Because I think that was my. At 25, that was my go to. It was like, I'm not gonna fight with you. My conflict avoidance was to pull away. So I do think that ultimately, everything very much happens for a reason, and I'm grateful for all of my birthing experiences and how much I've personally grown from every birth. Yeah, it's like leaps and bounds every single time, as I'm sure you've watched other women go through with your clients and even your own birth. One of the parts of the book that was my absolute favorite was your chapter on baby proofing your relationship. I think this is absolutely genius. Do you have three tips that you could give to people who are trying to baby proof their relationship? Because obviously, being in the relationship space, I see childbirth break a lot of couples because they don't go into this with the right sort of plan. So what is your strategy here? And what can people focus on?
- [52:29]
Carson Meyer
Yeah, it's, like, left out of all the birth classes, the books, and it is even being prepared for that and knowing that, like, and having the most amazing, solid husband in marriage, like, it. Parenthood really, really grows that part of you and. And, like, breaks that part of you in order to strengthen it. And as you said, for some, it. It doesn't ultimately end that way. But I think for others, whether or not there's ease, there's so much potential for it to be even better through that, through the sludge of figuring out the new, the rebirth of the relationship, the death of the old relationship. But a big part of baby proofing it, I think, is first acknowledging that whatever problems or dynamics that are there before are not going to be healed by birth. Or.
- [53:19]
Fizzy
I'm so glad that you said that. So many people go into childbirth being like, everything's going to be better now, better.
- [53:24]
Carson Meyer
Like, I'll be happy, happy because I have a baby finally. Or, like, we'll have this. Or like, it just. No, like, that's not gonna happen. So I think that's one of them. Something that I don't. Well, I talk about it in my book, not in this chapter, but I think it's really relevant at all seasons of motherhood and busy. And I were talking about a little bit this before, but just like understanding your work dynamic too, and how parenthood is going to change that, what that's going to look like for you and your partner, right? And just starting. You don't have to, like, necessarily have a plan right away, but being real about that, because I think a lot of parents don't really realize that it's not just the first 40 days postpartum, but it's the whole lifetime of how you're going to actually make space within the family and within your relationship for another being and human. That's going to require a lot of time. So I talk about those things. There's a questionnaire that I have. It comes back to expectations again of understanding, like, what. What might be needed to really talk about those things. Put those things on paper, talk about love signs, that book or Love Language, that's, you know, famous book. But I think there's a lot of value in that wisdom around. You know, sometimes I see parents or couples, like, one, you know, the dad maybe is like, okay, baby's here. Like, I did all the dishes and I did the laundry and I'm, like, doing all these acts of service around the house, and my wife's going to be so happy. And then she's up there being like, where are you? Like, I feel so alone. I feel neglected. I want to be told that I look beautiful today and that I'm doing a good job and. And then there's conflict, right? Because what you. The. Your love language or what you're desiring is not lining up with what Somebody's giving, and it's not because, you know he's a schmuck, like, doing nothing. It's because the language is you're not like, meeting each other and where you need to receive and where you want to receive and vice versa. And that can happen on both ends. And so I think that, like, exploring your love languages is a really beautiful way of not having to, you know, I think the greatest part about being hopefully in a healthy relationship is not playing games anymore. Right. Not having to do that.
- [55:33]
Fizzy
Amen.
- [55:33]
Carson Meyer
In the dating world. And so to like, take out the mystery of what you need is really helpful. And that knowing that, like, those needs will change from before your parents to after your parents, your love language may change. And so to not be afraid of really asking for what you need. And I think that ultimately that allows your. Sets your partner up for success and vice versa sets you up for success with your partner to avoid conflict and to feel the love that they have to give you and. And to receive it. So that's one I talk about the move on method, which I think is really. I just. That's like a catchy name that I made up. And it's not about, like, brushing things under the rug, but. And I think we. You and I are similar in this way. Are you Scorpio too?
- [56:16]
Fizzy
I'm a Scorpio rising. I'm a Pisces, but I'm not a very Pisces Pisces. I'm. I always seem to align more with Aries than Pisces, though.
- [56:24]
Carson Meyer
I'm technically like, we're fierce and we have like, you know, we. We have that part of ourselves. I think that's very like Scorpio of just like, fierce and we know what we need. And like, that there's a. That's part of, I think so much of my who I am. But learning that, like, that ruthlessness sometimes, like, does isn't really in service to anybody. And so, like, really learning to, like, let things go, which is so much easier said than done. And that again, that doesn't mean, like, not talking about it or not having a moment of frustration, which I have all the time. Um, but then, like, that the hardest days of parenthood are truly when my husband and I aren't united. And so being kind of like, mature enough to be able to be like, oh, I can choose the easy road right now by like, yeah.
- [57:13]
Fizzy
I think emotional resilience actually is when you are quick to reset. So even if something didn't go the way you wanted or it wasn't fair or, you know, it wasn't what you were expecting. You can choose to reset and let the future not be painted by the past. And I do think that that is. It's inherently a struggle for people with very specific brain pattern types. I'm probably too quick to reset in general.
- [57:39]
Carson Meyer
I see. And then I like projected on you that you would be more like, I'm.
- [57:43]
Fizzy
Harsh with truth and I can be direct in that way. But I'm. So one of the things we talk about on this show is our brain pattern types. And there's actually nine distinct markers where my information processing is. Is at the very end of my cycle and I have a very low score in it. So I just, I'm not one to dwell. I'm not one to fixate or replay. I'm not going to go back and try to comb back through for details. I'm much more likely to reset optimistically for the future, even if that optimism is completely unwarranted. I'm much more like the, we're going to figure it out. It's going to be fine. Meanwhile, everyone is like, looking at the evidence, this is not going to be fine. I'm like, I'm gonna figure it out.
- [58:23]
Carson Meyer
I think based. It's interesting. Like, you know, they say, obviously parenthood changes your brain chemistry, but I think my pattern changed after parenthood because I don't mind.
- [58:31]
Fizzy
Did too much.
- [58:31]
Carson Meyer
That too. But a friend of mine and I write about this in my book so perfectly, she told me about the move on method around parenting, and I applied it to the partnership. But she was saying that her best parenting advice was like, you know, when her son did something wrong or I acted out or, you know, there was a moment of like, discipline or parenting that needed to be enacted. She would do it and be firm and direct and have the conversation. And then she'd be like, do you want to go play now?
- [58:58]
Fizzy
You know, she wasn't like, yeah, you redirect all day.
- [59:01]
Carson Meyer
You just, you move on from it. Like, and it's. And there's forgiveness and it's like, you don't have to just be in it and to just make the point, have it done and then go through. And I was like, oh, that's so genius in a relationship too.
- [59:15]
Fizzy
My daughter Harley, who's four, I don't remember what happened, but somehow she hurt herself and she's trying out this new thing where when she gets hurt and she's getting attention, she wants to stay there for a bit longer than she used to. And I taught her something that is somewhat tongue in cheek, but I've now seen her apply it with great success, and it's pretty funny. So she just kept wanting to replay the sadness and stay really stuck on what she got hurt on. And I went up to her and I was like, can I teach you some of. It'll make you laugh? And she was like, you know, kind of like, I don't want to laugh. And I'm, okay, well, you're going to laugh whether you like it or not. I'm like, come here. And I got really close to him, like, are you sad right now? And she was like, yeah. And I'm like, build a bridge and get over it, sweetie. And she started laughing so hard, and then she saw her brother doing it, and she was like, oh, river, are you sad? Build a bridge and get over it, sweetie. So this is, again, tongue in cheek. I'm certainly not saying to, like, mock people that are in pain, but I do think, to some extent, especially in parenting, because I work a lot with kids. Sometimes you need a pattern interrupt like this for a kid who's just like, they're. They like that attention of being sad so they actually can kind of sink into it. And a kid like that, if left unchecked, won't build emotional resilience, and they'll actually keep finding other things to become sad about to get attention and love. So I think ultimately the same is true in relationships. It's like, we need.
- [60:42]
Carson Meyer
Well, and I have this, too, with the Mulan method. It's like. Like, it's okay to, like, help each other out, you know, just like you would with your child. Like, I'm gonna help you redirect and move on. And so I would sometimes will say to my husband, like, I need you to help me do that because I'm not strong enough right now or do.
- [60:57]
Fizzy
It on my own. There are people that are going to be listening to this podcast that have already had babies, and maybe their parenting journey is done. And I, because I've been through so many different births myself, I think a lot of women kind of hear the wisdom that you're bringing into the world and how you're trying to help this current generation maybe do things differently. And while, yes, we're moving more into the future, I think you're bringing back a lot of our more innate wisdom, and we're doing things a little bit more traditionally than maybe our generations would have been 30 years ago. What would you say to somebody who's kind of listening to all this. And they're almost feeling sad regret or remorse about what they didn't do with their births or with their children.
- [61:43]
Carson Meyer
Yeah. I mean, I think. And again, a big theme of this is that every. And I say this to my clients, I say this to myself because I've made so many choices in my own life, around my health, around. I still do, you know, where I. I feel regret or I'm like, oh, I. Why didn't I know enough to make the choice that I would have today? And I really believe, like, everything that we do is in service to. Are growing into ourself as we evolve into our evolution. And to see it that way. Right. Just like with you with the hospital and how you saw this and you experience it, and instead of feeling, like, bad about what, like a choice you made, feeling really feeling like this was actually going to create greater strength and resilience for you in the future so that you can grow in that part of yourself. And so that's one thing I say. My mom and I have this conversation a lot, too. I was born via cesarean, and I think she's always a, gosh, like, why didn't I have a doula? Why wasn't I, you know, like, strong enough to stand up for what I needed? And I say, well, thank God you weren't, because I think it's why I am who I am today, is because you made certain choices that changed the trajectory of my life and inspired my like. And so I think sometimes it can be hard to see, but knowing that, like, it's all. There's all a reason behind it, and to let them all be lessons and teachers and to know that we only know as much as we know until we know more.
- [63:12]
Fizzy
I love that.
- [63:13]
Carson Meyer
Yeah. And that's okay. One, I know we're kind of reaching the end. Well, and one thing I want to add on that is in the book, there's some really beautiful activities. One is the inner child, and then one is from Jessica Silver, who's a dear friend of mine and somatic therapist, and one from Dr. Mora Monahan, who's another dear friend who helps women kind of process and work with birth trauma and childbirth. So for anybody who is feeling that and wants to dive deeper, then those are two great stories from the book. But what I wanted to ask you, and I know I don't have a ton of time, so it's okay if you don't want to share the story, but a story you told me that always left an imprisonment on me, and I remembered so much is about your daughter seeing a pregnant woman in a grocery store and telling her. Do you want to share that?
- [63:58]
Fizzy
Yeah, I'll share that, man. Throwback. I haven't thought about that for a long time.
- [64:01]
Carson Meyer
This came up when I was listening to you tell your story, and I was like, wow, like, talk about Divine and Sarai.
- [64:10]
Fizzy
Many of the people that are listening or watching, they've followed off and on Sarai's journey for a long time. And she's always been a very spiritually tapped in little being. And even from the time that the hospital was trying to convince me that she would never walk or talk or be able to eat on her own, I remember just looking at her and being like that. No, no, no. She's, like, wise beyond her years. I don't. I don't believe what you're saying. Frankly, I'm so, so glad that I didn't. So when Sarai was about maybe two months, she wasn't very old at all. I had her in a baby sling. We were walking around the, like, hippie health food store in Hawaii, and she kept looking at this pregnant woman and kind of like. Like, just staring at her. It was enough for me to notice, even at two months, that she was trying to get this woman's attention. So I went up to her and I was just like, oh, you know, you're. You're pregnant. To start a conversation with her. And, sir, I just kept wanting. It was almost like even like, leaning, like, trying to get as close to someone as possible. And this woman named. Her name was Juju. She looked right at Sarai in the eyes and she was like, who did you. Who was your midwife? And I was like, oh, my midwife was April. And she was like, oh, me too. And I remember just sitting there for a moment being like, like, okay, obviously Sarai wants me to share this experience. And I. It was hard for me at that point because I don't think I had fully processed all the trauma that I'd been through. And I still didn't really even know how to reconcile, you know, fault or error and things like that. But I just. I, like, felt the stirring in my belly. I'm supposed to tell this woman my birth story. So I waited for her to get her smoothie. And I'm like, I hope this isn't inappropriate. And I'm. Because I was not trying to be a fear monger. Right? I think there's always this line where it's like, I felt really convicted about sharing. And I felt like Sarai was really leading this one to your point. So I did share what had happened to me, and she did, because of that story, choose to birth with somebody else. And her birth actually was really complex and complicated. And I really think that Sarai was paying it forward to help prevent this woman from possibly having a really bad situation and moving forward. Another baby just a few weeks later was birthing with this midwife. And I felt the same pull to talk to this person and they kind of brushed me off and were like, you know, I'm a firefighter, I've got this under control. And unfortunately, that person's baby did pass away during the birth with this midwife. So with that one, that was where it started to become really clear that my mission actually kind of shifted to uncover is this midwife actually hiding other issues? And I did uncover that there's actually a large number of babies that have been either deceased or severely handicapped because of birth accidents. And somehow there was this kind of don't ask, don't tell policy in addition to her gaslighting people into convincing them that it was their fault and not her fault. Eventually, now we're 15 years later, a bunch of the midwives actually got together and essentially like booted her off the island. They were like, you cannot practice here anymore because this was not an isolated event, as it turned out.
- [67:21]
Carson Meyer
So.
- [67:22]
Fizzy
Yeah, but that was a, it was a powerful moment and thank you for reminding me of that because I had completely forgotten about it. But you know, there is, we talked about this a little bit, but the birth process, even if you are an atheist and you're not sure what you believe, there's something very connected and spiritual about the process of being pregnant and also going through the birth portal. And even a newborn baby, it's like, it's touching this liminal space between the multi dimensional world and the physical world. And you can't, you can't run from that. There's something different in that space. Which is also why I think it's so brilliant that you talk about the postpartum period the way you do, because the baby's here, but not here. There's. There's something different there and you have to caretake it with a different level of intention, for sure.
- [68:11]
Carson Meyer
So true. Thank you for sharing that. And it's, I love that you pointed out too. It's like fear mongering is one thing. Informing and sharing is so different.
- [68:21]
Fizzy
Yeah. And it's, it's a different intention. Right. Some people will just offer unsolicited fear based conversation I think it, it is. You know, people do have birth traumas and there are things that go wrong. And I remember really vividly, even with river, somebody was talking about something and I, because I had bolstered myself through four births, learned to say, hey, I really appreciate that you went through that birth trauma. I'm about to give birth in a few weeks, so I'm going to step out. I just, I can't have that in my head right now. But I really feel for you. And, like, I've been through it with my first. So sometimes there's also this sort of communication dance that you have to do where you're not kind of like shutting someone's trauma down, but you also are learning how to protect yourself and say, I appreciate that. Also, I have to kind of tune this out right now so that I can stay focused on the birth that I'm going to have. And that can be quite. The dance is learning how to walk that in between space where you're not pushing somebody away or shaming them, but you're also learning how to stand up for yourself. Which, to your point earlier in the podcast, that's a lesson that you have to learn as a parent no matter what. So better to do it as soon as possible. So can you just tell people where we can find this book and how people can follow along with your body of work?
- [69:34]
Carson Meyer
Work, yeah. Thank you so much for having me on. My book is called Growing Together and it can be found anywhere where books are sold. My website is carson-meyer.com. i host circles for Pregnancy and Postpartum, and my Instagram is ccmeyer.
- [69:49]
Fizzy
Thank you so much for being on the show. It's always beautiful just to watch you literally grow up and then also grow this body of work. I love that this book is a permission slip to really return to your own inner wisdom. And I think you've done such a beautiful job of embodying everything that you've been through as a doula, and also just how you show up in the world as Carson Meyer and it's always an honor to know you and be a part of your life. So if this episode spoke to you or you know somebody that's going through birth right now or they're preparing to get pregnant, please share this far and wide and be sure to follow along with Carson on Instagram and definitely go pick up that book and I'll drop it in the show notes. Thank you so much, everybody. I'll see you on the next episode. Your brain isn't broken. It's running. An old code break method is a system that maps your neurological patterns, decodes your emotional distortions and rewires your behavior fast. No talk therapy spiral, no getting stuck in your feelings, just logic based rewiring. In 20 weeks or less. Head to breakmethod.com and see what your brain is really up to. Your brain is wired for deception. But here's the truth. Patterns can be broken, the code can be rewritten. Once you hear the truth, you can't go back. So the only question is, are you ready to listen?