Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: Decoder with Nilay Patel (The Verge)
Guest: Almar Latour, CEO of Dow Jones and Publisher of the Wall Street Journal
Episode Title: Dow Jones CEO Almar Latour on AI, Press Freedom, and the Future of News
Air Date: March 10, 2025

Episode Overview

Nilay Patel hosts Almar Latour for a wide-ranging and timely conversation about the future of news in the face of AI disruption, press freedom under political pressure, the evolving business model of journalism, and the unique role Dow Jones (and the Wall Street Journal) plays in a volatile industry. The discussion dives into newsroom cuts, vertical strategy for data products, Latour's approach to leadership, negotiations (and lawsuits) with AI companies, and the risks of an increasingly unreliable information environment.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Newsroom Cuts and the Structure of Tech Coverage (03:56–10:58)

• Latour addresses the recent cuts in WSJ’s tech and media reporting teams.

  • The changes are part of a newsroom-wide, ongoing restructuring under Editor Emma Tucker.
  • Goal: More exclusivity, depth, and proprietary content instead of simply austerity-driven profit seeking.
  • Quote:

    "Distinctive journalism is what makes the difference, knowing the interesting story, the story behind the story..."
    (Almar Latour, 04:07)

  • Changes aim to integrate tech coverage as a “horizontal” throughout all beats, reflecting technology’s role in every story.

• On resource allocation and profitability:

  • Despite Dow Jones’ rising revenues and profits, Latour frames the cuts as editorial, not cost-cutting mandates.
  • He insists tech remains a top coverage priority and that investments are guided by business logic and value creation, not pure austerity.
  • Quote:

    "Tech will permeate everything. Don’t take a snapshot and say, okay, we’re going to stop there...Talk again in a year, and our tech coverage should be broader, deeper, and probably have a larger following."
    (Almar Latour, 08:23)

2. Journalism's Value Proposition & The Threat of AI (10:58–22:27)

• Latour discusses the challenges of monetizing quality journalism in an age of information abundance and AI.

  • For business audiences, the value of WSJ info is “tradable”; for average consumers, TikTok and AI chatbots create further competition.
  • The core threat: AI may eliminate even the faintest scarcity by summarizing and distributing news without the need to visit sources.
  • On the existential risk:

    "The bar on being distinctive by content or news or information that you create has gone way up."
    (Latour, 15:52)

  • WSJ is aggressively negotiating with AI platforms for commercial agreements, but is prepared to litigate to protect its value when those fail (ex: lawsuit against Perplexity).

• Latour sees opportunity as well as risk:

  • Moments of high societal friction actually drive up subscriptions and traffic for reliable sources.
  • He casts growing demand for trustworthy information as a major, still-untapped market opportunity.

3. Business Model of Dow Jones: The "Rubik’s Cube" Approach (26:10–32:56)

• Latour explains Dow Jones as a platform with multiple verticals—news, wealth/investment data, compliance, energy, leadership, etc.

  • The strategy: build each vertical with four pillars—news, proprietary data, analytics/forecasting, and convening power.
  • AI and generative tools are accelerating integration across these verticals, enabling new forms of exclusivity and value.
  • Quote:

    "Each tile on that Rubik’s Cube is a way to get out of Dow Jones what is important and relevant to you...AI is actually helping a great deal with this and is accelerating this or generative AI."
    (Latour, 26:24)

• Dow Jones is investing heavily in acquisitions, deeper data, and new verticals as a way to future-proof the business.

  • Latour highlights a move to create tailored, high-value products for specific industries, with subscription at the core.

4. Relations With News Corp & Fox: Editorial Independence (32:56–36:22)

• Nilay probes the tension between the WSJ's dedication to factual reporting and News Corp’s ownership of Fox News, often criticized for misinformation.
  • Latour insists on separation—WSJ decisions are independent, and he will not comment on Fox.
  • Awareness of public perception is strong inside Dow Jones, but there’s clarity on independence.
  • Quote:

    "...there’s also a great awareness amongst our staff...that those two things are separate."
    (Latour, 35:49)

5. Latour’s Leadership and Decision-Making Framework (36:32–38:40)

• Latour describes himself as highly consultative, inquisitive, and empowering.
  • Decision-making involves deep fact-finding, curiosity, and a flat management structure that allows for autonomy and speed.
  • Quote:

    "The strength of good journalists is they know how to ask questions and they’re driven by curiosity...I have a very flat structure where there is a lot of autonomy..."
    (Latour, 36:53, 37:25)

6. AI Strategy: Deals, Lawsuits, and the Shape of the Opportunity (41:35–51:42)

• Latour outlines three-pronged AI engagement:

  • 1. Striking commercial agreements (e.g., OpenAI – reportedly $250M, per WSJ reporting) for use of Dow Jones content.
  • 2. Suing companies (e.g., Perplexity) that do not license content.
  • 3. Building proprietary generative AI tools for B2B customers.
  • Quote:

    "If we don’t have proprietary information that is truly proprietary, then we’re going to lose this game."
    (Latour, 43:40)

  • The real value will be realized in selling verticalized, specialized tools—e.g. risk/compliance products, forecasting tools—not in lump-sum licensing deals with AI companies.

• He is cautious about over-focusing on one-off deals with AI companies, emphasizing instead a sustainable business model.

  • Usage, recurring revenue, and customer reliance on proprietary offerings are marks of success.

• On the risk of AI devaluing content:

  • The answer is product differentiation: “what our GenAI answer spits out is relevant...in a way that some other provider...is not.” (49:09)

7. Copyright Battles, Platform Power, and Industry Precedents (51:42–56:35)

• Nilay presses on the nuclear option: Would Dow Jones ever block Google the way some have blocked AI crawlers?
  • Latour sidesteps specifics but emphasizes the value of exclusive experience on their platforms.
• On the risks of fair use litigation:
  • Latour acknowledges uncertainty, thinks lawsuits won’t produce one absolute answer, but insists Dow Jones can’t hold back on AI innovation out of fear.
  • Market mechanisms, not litigation, will ultimately set the terms.
  • Quote:

    "I believe in market mechanism, and I think that’s where we’ll end up..."
    (Latour, 56:17)

8. Press Freedom in a Hostile and Polarized Climate (57:28–65:54)

• Latour discusses both the dangers and the vital importance of journalism under threat (from Russia to the USA).

  • Refers to his experience with Evan Gershkovich’s detention as emblematic of global risks.
  • The US now faces new pressures—potential political manipulation of data, threats of government interference (e.g. Trump administration targeting the press).
  • His prescription:
    1. Stick to principles—do not self-censor or omit facts, no matter the pressure.

       "...if you start making concessions and you’re reporting and omitting facts...that game is lost."
       (Latour, 61:18)

    2. Keep a cool head—don’t react to every provocation.
    3. Recognize when to fight—choose moments carefully, always grounded in core values.

• Latour acknowledges that some peers are compromising under pressure (legal settlements with Trump administration, etc.), but avoids direct criticism:

  • "I just think that there are moments where as an organization, you’re going to have to evaluate...you better have a clear view of your principles."
    (Latour, 62:57)

• Advocates for industry solidarity but maintains focus on Dow Jones’s standards and success.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Tech will permeate everything. Don’t take a snapshot...this is a moment in time. Talk again in a year...” (Latour, 08:23)
• “The bar on being distinctive...has gone way up.” (Latour, 15:52)
• “I think we haven’t met [the demand for reliable info] by any stretch. There’s a huge opportunity...” (Latour, 21:54)
• On Fox News & WSJ tension:
  “Those two things are separate.” (Latour, 35:49)
• On AI and proprietary value:
  "If we don’t have proprietary information that is truly proprietary, then we’re going to lose this game." (Latour, 43:40)
• On resisting pressure:
  "You’ve got to stick to your principles. If you start shifting and making certain concessions at the wrong moment, there will be a very high price to pay for that." (Latour, 61:37)

Important Timestamps

| Timestamp | Segment | Summary | |------------|------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------| | 03:56–10:58| Newsroom layoffs, tech beat changes | Rationale, priorities, and philosophy of coverage | | 10:58–22:27| Info value, consumers, and existential AI threat| Monetization challenges in the age of social & generative AI| | 26:10–32:56| Structure: The Dow Jones Rubik’s Cube | Vertical strategy for news, data, analytics, convening | | 41:35–51:42| AI: deals, lawsuits, building proprietary tools | How generative AI fits into the Dow Jones strategy | | 57:28–65:54| Press freedom under threat | Defensive strategies, industry solidarity, principles |

Closing Thoughts

Almar Latour articulates a vision for Dow Jones that's rooted in deep, proprietary expertise, relentless product innovation (especially in B2B data and analytics), and a steadfast commitment to journalistic principle. While recognizing the existential threats posed by AI, unreliable information flows, and political volatility, he sees historic opportunity—and emphasizes doing the hard, often more nuanced work of differentiation, rather than relying on regulatory or legal lifelines. Throughout, Latour positions Dow Jones and the WSJ as industry leaders—pragmatic, principled, and determined to shape, not just survive, the future of news.