Podcast Summary

Podcast: Decoder with Nilay Patel
Episode: Ford CEO Jim Farley on China, tariffs, and the quest for a $30,000 EV
Date: September 29, 2025
Host: Joanna Stern (Guest Host)
Guest: Jim Farley, CEO of Ford Motor Company

Overview

In this episode of Decoder, guest host Joanna Stern (Wall Street Journal senior columnist and former Verge co-founder) interviews Ford CEO Jim Farley. The discussion centers on Ford's new Universal EV Platform, competition from Chinese automakers, the reality of tariffs and policy in the US, the challenges of building affordable EVs, and the future of digital experiences inside cars. Farley offers rare candor—addressing the risks, failures, and evolving strategies as Ford attempts both massive technical transformation and a cultural repositioning within the broader economy and workforce. Big Decoder questions abound, and even Nilay Patel calls in for an enthusiast’s question about Mustang modding.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Ford’s Current EV Position and Challenges

• Mach-E as a learning step:
  • While Ford has been the #2 EV seller in the US behind Tesla, Farley admits the Mach-E was a product of its time and not Ford’s EV endgame.
  • Quote: "We knew what we knew then five years ago and we now know what we know now. And those are... two different things." (Jim Farley, 06:58)
• Lessons from Mach-E and competitive pressures:
  • Ford learned consumers’ pain points (e.g., charging experience) and where Ford can add value.
  • Increased competition from Chinese brands (BYD, Nio, Xiaomi) and GM’s aggressive low-cost EV push have forced new strategies.
  • Quote: "The Chinese are the 700 pound gorilla in our industry. For EVs, there's no real competition from Tesla or GM or Ford with what we've seen from China." (Jim Farley, 12:01)

2. Announcing the Ford Universal EV Platform

• Details and Timeline:
  • Announced as a “Model T moment for EVs”
  • Not coming to market until 2027
  • First vehicle is a not-just-a-pickup body style, larger than a RAV4 plus a bed and “frunk,” with an innovative digital experience
  • Engineering revolution: Requires radical simplification for manufacturability, all new platform, and an independent “maverick” engineering team
• Motivation:
  • Need to make an affordable EV ($30,000) profitably, to compete not just on price but cost structure.
  • Quote: "If you sell an affordable ev in the US for $30,000, but it costs you $50k to make it, you could say you have an affordable one, but that's not a sustainable business." (Jim Farley, 12:01)
• Risk-centric approach:
  • Ford is candid about high risk, likelihood of failure and breaking with traditional methods
  • Quote: "No one has ever built a car in three pieces. No one's offered his own electric architecture at this price. We've never done it... there's a lot of risk here." (Jim Farley, 16:08)

3. Competing Globally: The China Factor

• China’s Dominance:
  • Massive local EV markets (20 million units, half of them EVs), government subsidies, and vertically integrated battery manufacturing
  • Key advantage: All-new companies and tech, not legacy automakers
  • Ford’s only path: A new, isolated engineering group with radical autonomy.
• Ford’s Home Market Reality:
  • In North America, the Universal EV Platform strategy is right; global competition will require more.

4. The Price Imperative and Manufacturing

• EV Affordability as Key to Mainstream Adoption:
  • The importance of $30,000 price point—more in line with average used car prices in the US.
  • Acknowledges that the car industry talks too much about new cars, not the mass used market.
  • Manufacturing leap:
    • Taking inspiration (and lessons) from Mach-E and rivals like Tesla for radical cost reduction in manufacturing.
    • Relying on methods like simplification of wiring, fewer fasteners, and large castings.

5. Decoder Questions: Org Structure and Decision Making

• Skunkworks Approach:

  • Farley empowered a separate “Skunk Works” team (led by Alan, with ex-Tesla and Apple talent like Doug Fields) to develop the new platform unrestricted by Ford bureaucracy.
  • Integrating back into the main company will involve gradual feature introduction, massive simplification at launch, and controlled risk escalation.
  • Quote: “Let’s make a really simple one first. Let’s not try to add all the complexity.” (Jim Farley, 23:52)

• On Decision-Making (Gemba):

  • Farley adopts the Japanese “Gemba”—go and see for yourself—before any big decision.
  • Personal visits to study manufacturing waste led him to realize Ford’s systems could not compete with BYD without “radically redesigning the efficiency.”
  • Quote: “I Gembaed it and I really talked to people that knew. And I can’t put the company’s future at risk by making people happy.” (Jim Farley, 30:28)

6. Reviving Blue Collar Aspirations in the AI Era

• Broader Societal Challenge:
  • Points to America’s crisis in blue collar/essential jobs (factory, emergency services, trades) vs. the boom in white collar AI and productivity.
  • Argues for cultural shift and investment in trade schools to bolster America’s manufacturing base.
  • Shares personal story: His son learned welding so he’d have the option of a skilled trade.
  • Quote: “We have a complete crisis in the country that’s not talked about... Companies like Ford thankfully have enough resources that we can put our backs behind this problem with trade schools and scholarships and stuff. But our society isn’t doing it.” (Jim Farley, 32:04)

7. Tariffs and Policy Frustrations

• Ford’s Uniquely American Position:

  • 80% of Ford’s US-sold vehicles are made in the US—but it also imports parts with compounding tariffs.

• Appeal for Fairness:

  • Farley asks Washington for a “fair fight”—not to be penalized for US-based manufacturing and importing unavoidable parts.
  • Notes current tariffs evaporate 20% of company profit.
  • Policy wish list: Sensible tailpipe emissions standards, production battery tax credits, and tariff relief (especially on parts, not just vehicles).
  • Quote: “We’re just asking for a fair fight.” (Jim Farley, 45:32)

• EV Credits:

  • Ford is adapting its strategy so tax credits are not essential (“...we'll kind of lift ourselves up by the bootstraps kind of company anyway.”) (Jim Farley, 49:02)

8. Digital Experience: CarPlay, Android, AI Companions

• CarPlay Ultra and Openness:
  • Ford is committed to allowing Apple and Google phone integration, not forcing customers into a locked Ford experience.
  • But a true Apple takeover of vehicle controls would prompt Ford to go its own way.
  • Quote: "We do not have the rights, in our opinion, of disrupting someone's digital life when they get in their car... We don't think we can design an experience that's going to displace your phone." (Jim Farley, 52:05)
• AI Assistants:
  • Ford aims to deliver an AI “companion” experience in the car, inspired by China’s progress.
  • Sees the next battleground as software-defined in-car experiences, not sheet metal or drivetrain specs.
  • ADAS (Driver Assist) will be deeply integrated with these systems.

9. Nilay Patel’s Question: Mustang Modding and Locked ECUs

• Mustang Enthusiast Dilemma:
  • Nilay calls in: Locked ECUs in new Mustangs prevent custom tuning. Has this hurt sales? Will customers ever be able to mod again?
  • Farley’s response: No, sales are growing globally, but Ford must balance customer freedom and quality/reliability. Hints at possible official digital adjustments in the future.
  • Quote: “We always want to give customers a chance to tune their vehicles, but we actually know a lot about the reliability of the vehicle. And are we as a brand going to suffer our quality reputation to give that person the ability to modify the vehicle?” (Jim Farley, 42:02)

10. Hiring Pitch to Joanna / The Next Mach-E

• Joanna asks why she should lease another Mach-E.
• Farley touts improvements in affordability, quality, compute power, and user experience.
• But encourages her to wait for the Universal EV Platform in 2027.
• Quote: "...bridge you to something that no one will be able to offer you... you’ll go, 'Oh, my God, this is so much better than anything I could buy, including the Mach E.'" (Jim Farley, 63:42)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "This next inning...is a completely different inning than the first inning...there are no assurances that we can do this." (Jim Farley, 16:08)
• "I can't put the company's future at risk by making people happy. I have to do the right thing in that particular decision." (Jim Farley, 30:28)
• "We have a complete crisis in the country that's not talked about...It's more in a way, it's just as threatening to our society [as a medical crisis]." (Jim Farley, 32:04)
• "[On tariffs:] ...we're just asking for a fair fight." (Jim Farley, 45:32)
• "Ford does not have the rights, in our opinion, of disrupting someone's digital life when they get in their car." (Jim Farley, 52:05)
• "The difference between car companies when you have a software defined vehicles is not going to be what your sheet metal looks like... It's going to be this digital experience why someone buys this or that." (Jim Farley, 59:03)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 06:58 — Farley candid on Mach-E and learning from past mistakes
• 08:37–11:23 — Introduction and vision for Ford Universal EV Platform
• 12:01–16:08 — China’s EV dominance and the drive for affordability
• 23:52 — Skunkworks team, organizational overhaul
• 26:50–30:28 — Farley on personal decision-making, “Gemba”
• 32:04–35:38 — Blue-collar crisis and Farley’s cultural mission
• 41:08–45:11 — Nilay Patel’s Mustang Modding Question
• 45:32–49:02 — Tariff frustrations and policy wish list
• 52:05–59:03 — CarPlay Ultra, digital experience philosophy, AI companions
• 61:17 — BlueCruise, focus on highway ADAS
• 62:19–63:42 — Should Joanna get another Mach-E? Farley pitches, urges to wait for 2027 platform

Tone and Style

The conversation is frank, deeply informed, and discursive—Farley admits uncertainty and risk, avoids PR spin, and offers philosophical as well as technical answers. Joanna brings wit and a user’s perspective, keeping the interview lively, personal, and packed with the “Decoder” ethos: straight talk on how big tech and business actually work.