Decoder with Nilay Patel — Episode Summary

Episode Title: How Silicon Valley enshittified the internet
Host: Sarah Jeong (filling in for Nilay Patel)
Guest: Cory Doctorow, author, activist, and critic
Release Date: October 30, 2025

Overview

This episode of Decoder dives into Cory Doctorow’s central concept of “enshittification”—his viral term for the decline of online platforms from user-friendly to exploitative, profit-extracting entities. Doctorow unpacks not just how and why the internet got so much worse for users, but also the regulatory, legal, and market failures that enabled this process. The conversation explores the historical, economic, and legal roots of enshittification, analyzes the intersection with the rise of AI, and concludes with prescriptions for rebuilding a healthier internet.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What is "Enshittification"? (Starts [04:11])

• Definition:
  Doctorow describes enshittification as the process by which online platforms—initially optimized for users—degrade as they exploit their dominance to extract value first from users, then from business customers, and finally for their own corporate benefit.
• Origin of the term:
  Born out of a frustrated tweet about TripAdvisor, it stuck due to its humor and accuracy in describing platform decay.

  “Inshidification was just one of those... ways to try and talk about this stuff and bring it home for people.” ([04:20], Cory Doctorow)

• Why now:
  Enshittification isn’t just a product issue—it's the result of eroded market and regulatory discipline:

  “They are bad to us not because they’re worse people, but because they’re less frightened about what will happen if they make things worse.” ([06:54], Doctorow)

2. The Mechanics of Platform Decay (Enshittification) ([07:40])

The Facebook Case Study

• Multi-Stage Process:
  1. Platforms attract users by offering value (often at users’ expense).
  2. Once users are locked in, platforms extract value from business customers (advertisers, publishers), making things worse for users.
  3. After locking in business customers, platforms exploit everyone to maximize profit.
• Notable Breakdown:

  “Facebook has had the same leadership… ran by the same guy… and yet he used to make it better, and now he makes it worse.” ([10:37], Doctorow)

• Lock-In:
  Lock-in is easier in digital platforms than in physical businesses due to network effects and collective action problems.
• Result:
  “...the only way publishers can monetize [is] with Facebook’s rigged ad market… users find that the amount of stuff they asked to see... has dwindled to basically nothing, so that these voids can be filled with stuff people will pay to show them.” ([11:53], Doctorow)

3. Is Enshittification Unique to Tech? ([16:38–24:18])

• Unchecked Capitalism:
  Enshittification is a version of unchecked capitalism, but tech had unique sources of discipline (interoperability, worker power) that have eroded.
• Market and Regulatory Discipline:
  When industries dwindle to a few dominant firms, both market competition and effective regulation collapse.
• The Tech Twist:
  • Interoperability: Used to protect users (ad-blockers, alternative apps), now stymied by IP/DRM laws.
  • Labor: Scarce tech workers once had leverage but widespread layoffs ended that power.
  • Speed: Tech’s universal nature allows rapid shifts in business logic, pricing, and features—accelerating enshittification.
• Memorable Example:
  Chamberlain replacing smart home standards with ad-filled proprietary apps ([17:00], Doctorow)

4. Regulatory and Legal Roots ([29:16–45:36])

• Key Statutes and Cases:
  • Section 230 (CDA): Protects intermediaries from liability for user content, lowering barriers for new platforms.
  • DMCA 1201: Protects DRM, discourages interoperability and user control.
  • Notice & Take-Down, Fair Use (Google Books, Perfect 10 case): Enabled intermediaries and AI training through legal permission for data analysis and copying.
• Doctorow’s Argument:
  The main failure was not regulating mergers:

  “We failed to police intermediary mergers... they bought all the companies that had good businesses because we didn’t stop them when they broke the law.” ([33:25], Doctorow)

• On AI and Fair Use:
  • Doctorow supports fair use and argues that AI training is legally justified, expressing skepticism that expanding copyright would benefit creators over corporations.
• On Labor and Sectoral Bargaining:

  “We do have something that makes workers richer and their bosses poorer. It’s called sectoral bargaining. So if we’re going to do one thing, that should be our one thing.” ([45:19], Doctorow)

5. The AI “Slop” Era & Policy Challenges ([49:03–60:06])

• AI “Slop” and User Content:
  • Sarah raises the concern that user-generated content is being replaced by AI-to-AI “slop”—meaningless, decontextualized text and images.
  • Doctorow: The communicative intent of human creators gets lost; most AI art becomes “hack,” and the novelty fades.
• Economic Reality of AI:
  Doctorow is deeply skeptical about the economic sustainability of the current AI bubble:

  “A lot of these questions, they're like questions about blockchain governance... I would not be surprised if the number of foundation models in a couple of years was zero.” ([58:51], Doctorow)

• AI’s Social Impact:
  AI’s main risk is wage displacement in high-cost sectors (e.g., radiology), but technological limitations and financial unsustainability may cause the sector to collapse.

6. Prescriptions: How Do We Fix It? ([63:13–69:09])

• Policy Suggestions:
  • Administrability: Regulation must be enforceable and simple—a focus on data/identity portability, not just content moderation rules.

    “Maybe the best remedy? Make it easier to leave platforms.” ([63:56], Doctorow)

  • Labor Organizing: Renew collective action—unionize tech workers even in the absence of supportive regulation.

    “There’s never been a better time to do it… We’re gonna have to do it again.” ([68:06], Doctorow)

7. Hope for the Future ([69:17])

• Hope, Not Optimism:

  “I have no optimism because I think optimism is a species of fatalism… I have a lot of hope. Hope, you know, is the belief that if we do something, things might get better.”
  ([69:17], Doctorow)

• Antitrust Movements as Reason for Hope:
  Global coalition-building for antitrust:

  “The law of political gravity has been repealed. Water has started flowing uphill… we can do the same thing back to them in every country. We have antitrust enforcement everywhere…” ([70:52], Doctorow)

Notable Quotes

• On Stage-By-Stage Enshittification:

  “They leave just the mingiest, kind of most homeopathic residue behind a value that will keep us all stuck into the platform, and then the platform is a pile of shit.” ([06:37], Doctorow)

• On Lock-In:

  “You love your friends, but they’re a giant pain in the ass... As you love those people more than you hate Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Zuckerberg can make things worse for you.” ([11:53], Doctorow)

• On Labor:

  “That’s what Jeff Bezos will do to his programmers... as soon as he’s not afraid of them anymore.” ([66:33], Doctorow)

• On AI Slop:

  “Eeriness, Mark Fisher says, is the seeming of intent without an intender… Clouds have nothing to say to you.” ([51:58], Doctorow)

• On Hope:

  “Hope… is the belief that if we do something, things might get better.” ([69:19], Doctorow)

Key Timestamps

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------|--------------| | Introduction & Background | 01:48–04:08 | | Definition & Origin of Enshittification | 04:11 | | Facebook as Case Study | 10:37 | | Tech vs. General Capitalism | 16:38 | | Regulatory Failure, DRM & Labor | 24:29–24:18 | | Legal Framework, Fair Use, AI Debate | 29:16–45:36 | | “AI Slop”, Bot-to-Bot Content | 49:09 | | Doctorow’s Prescriptions (“What to do”) | 63:13 | | Hope and Reasons for Optimism | 69:17 |

Memorable Moments

• → Doctorow's blunt summary of Facebook’s decline and Zuckerberg’s role: cheating at Settlers of Catan and “always been a creep.” ([10:37])
• → The “Chamberlain garage door ad” example—shifting from interoperability to user abuse. ([17:00])
• → Lively discussion of why expanding copyright won’t actually help creative workers—the only time Doctorow says he has found himself aligned with the US Copyright Office. ([40:41])
• → Doctorow’s vision of “disinfectifying” the global internet through global antitrust and collective action. ([69:17–73:10])

Tone & Language

Doctorow and Jeong’s conversation is sharp, witty, and at times irreverent (“pile of shit,” “slop to slop”), but always dense with analysis and critical insight. Doctorow uses vivid metaphors, ranging from the mafia’s love of intermediaries to “Murder Rocks” style emails by Zuckerberg.

Summary for Listeners

This episode is a masterclass in understanding the decay of digital platforms—not as an accident or necessary stage, but as a direct result of regulatory, legal, and market design choices. Doctorow makes a powerful case for user agency, interoperability, labor organizing, and antitrust as the lodestars for a less “enshittified” internet. If you want to understand why the internet feels broken—and what it would take to fix it—this is essential listening.