Decoder with Nilay Patel
Episode: Why GM will give you Gemini — but not CarPlay
Date: October 22, 2025
Guests: Mary Barra (GM CEO), Sterling Anderson (GM Chief Product Officer)
Episode Overview
In this wide-ranging episode, Nilay Patel sits down with General Motors CEO Mary Barra and the newly-appointed Chief Product Officer Sterling Anderson to discuss a suite of major announcements from GM against the backdrop of industry upheaval. From a new Google Gemini-powered in-car assistant (and what that means for the CarPlay/Android Auto debate) to next-generation hardware/software platforms, EV market uncertainty, new robotics and battery initiatives, and uneasy political/regulatory winds, the conversation covers the strategic bets GM is making for the future of cars — and what actually matters for consumers today.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
GM’s Big Announcements and Industry Context
- New Tech Initiatives:
- Launch of Google Gemini AI-powered assistant in 2026 vehicles
- Next-gen hardware/software platform debuting in Escalade IQ (2028); will support “true Level 3” autonomy
- New home battery & energy business, and a robotics division
- Market Headwinds:
- Trump administration’s tariffs & trade wars affecting supply chains and costs
- Expiration of U.S. EV tax credits, prompting a major EV business write-down
- Growing consumer price-sensitivity, with average car prices over $50,000
- GM’s Strategy:
- Balance of ICE and EV vehicles
- Focus on consumer choice and affordability amid rapidly shifting regulatory and market landscapes
"We have a great product portfolio of both internal combustion engine vehicles and electric vehicles and the customers are responding very well to it...we have the ability to be very resilient and agile."
— Mary Barra, [05:51]
Navigating EV Uncertainty and Financial Impacts
- Slowing EV Adoption & $1.6B Write-down
- Slower growth expected for EV demand due to changing regulations and credit expirations
- Shift in factory planning (e.g., Orion plant pivoted back to ICE)
- Still sees EVs as “the North Star” but acknowledges market will adapt at slower pace
"We need to make adjustments, but we’re going to meet the customer where they are, whether they want a great ICE vehicle or an EV... when you have that dramatic a change that happens in that short a period of time, you have to make adjustments to run the business."
— Mary Barra, [07:17]
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Used vs. New EVs:
- Nilay notes the “out of control” depreciation of used EVs; Mary insists GM doesn’t “play games” with residuals, and disciplined pricing is designed to protect long-term value for buyers
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Long-Term Bet on EVs:
- Early EV adopters tend to remain loyal; broader adoption hinges on wider charging infrastructure
"Once they own an EV, because of those benefits, they very much are likely to buy another EV. But we're still in early days..."
— Mary Barra, [12:38]
Political & Regulatory Pressures
- Pushback on EV Rollback Criticism:
- Responding to Gov. Newsom’s critique that GM “sold out” to Trump-era rollbacks, Barra defends the need for a “single national standard” and consumer choice, suggesting that unattainable regulatory goals would have harmed jobs and consumer access
"I'm a big believer in consumer choice... Once you get into regulations driving consumer behavior, you're already in a difficult place."
— Mary Barra, [17:45]
- Tariffs & Affordability:
- Tariffs are seen as a way to “level the playing field” against subsidized foreign competition, but GM remains focused on managing affordability, efficiency, and unintended policy consequences
GM’s Organizational Structure & Approach to Innovation
-
Functional Organization:
- Centralized product development with brand-specific design teams (e.g., different teams for Chevrolet vs. Cadillac), all leveraging GM’s global manufacturing scale to try to keep vehicles affordable
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Competing with China’s EV Makers:
- GM closely benchmarks Chinese automakers, but regulatory differences (safety, emissions, connectivity) mean that “just importing” Chinese EVs isn’t straightforward
- Acknowledges price wars and excess capacity in China; emphasizes need to innovate efficiently at scale
"We are regularly benchmarking our Chinese competitors... But I would also say we've got to meet the regulations in this country..."
— Mary Barra, [31:13]
- No Skunkworks, But a Systematic Approach:
- Sterling Anderson outlines that, unlike Ford or Tesla, GM’s approach is about integrating innovation into their main organization for scalable impact—particularly in battery technology and manufacturing processes
"What I've seen that General Motors has been doing... is a much more steady approach to this development — electric vehicles designed and developed and manufactured on electric vehicle architectures..."
— Sterling Anderson, [35:04]
Software, Autonomy, and The Car as a Platform
Why No CarPlay/Android Auto in New GM EVs?
- Rationale:
- Original vehicle HMIs were “pretty bad,” so smartphone projection became essential. Now, GM believes it’s built a new, robust system with bigger screens, better speakers, and seamless integration — making external phone mirroring obsolete and clunky
- Argues for a “Jobsian” platform shift akin to the removal of the disk drive: not popular at first, but necessary for the future
"If you're talking to me about CarPlay... take that same analog to the car... You are in a much more immersive environment that can do so many more things. Why would you use the equivalent of a phone mirroring application on a laptop in your car? For us, it's a look, we're taking out the disk drive, guys get on board..."
— Sterling Anderson, [51:12]
- Consumer Pushback:
- Nilay emphasizes that consumers value wide app ecosystems, and feel locked out of apps/functions due to business decisions (e.g., no Apple Music app due to Apple’s interests in CarPlay).
- Mary insists GM is working with both Apple and Google for future compatibility and is not making “broad-based assumptions” about current app availability or partnerships.
"I would say we have a good relationship with Apple... I wouldn't make some of the broad-based assumptions you're making."
— Mary Barra, [54:09]
- Phase-Out Timeline:
- Smartphone projection will remain in existing ICE vehicles until their next major update; new gas models will also make the switch to the new platform in future rollouts
"We made a decision to prioritize our EV vehicles during this timeframe and as we go forward, we'll continue across the portfolio."
— Mary Barra, [57:47]
- "As we get to a major rollout, I think that's the right expectation, yes."
— Mary Barra, [58:23]
Gemini’s Role and the Next Platform Shift
- AI as Platform Shift:
- Google Gemini’s conversational intelligence (coming 2026) will enable natural language in-car assistance and could drive a broader platform shift for applications (including car controls, navigation, and possibly integrating with home/energy systems)
"We're thinking about AI across the business, right? Not just in the product experience, but what it does to our development... What I'll say is, this is one of the really important enablers of speed in a company with a portfolio this broad..."
— Sterling Anderson, [58:58]
-
New Electrical Architecture:
- Debuting in the 2028 Escalade IQ:
- Centralized compute, Ethernet-based networking
- 35x increase in computational power
- Sub-millisecond response times (e.g., for active suspension)
- Enables over-the-air updates and consistent feature/app experiences across models
- Debuting in the 2028 Escalade IQ:
-
On-Device AI vs. Cloud:
- Many safety-critical functions will remain local to the car, with tailored, robust AI systems — not generic, cloud-based large language models
"If it's controlling a temporally sensitive or safety relevant function, it will happen locally."
— Sterling Anderson, [64:29]
- Consistent Focus on Safety:
- Both guests reiterate that safety is a non-negotiable at GM and will always be prioritized over speed to market or showy demos
"We have a safety group within the company that really looks at that and is looking at all those decisions... making sure we're not going to put the driver or passengers into a situation that no one wants to be in."
— Mary Barra, [66:17]
Robotics, Home Energy, and the Future of “GM Everywhere”
- Robotics:
- GM is leveraging its experience with production robots (“cobots”) that operate alongside workers for safety/ergonomics, and sees potential for future home applications
- Goal: Both internal competitive advantage and future commercial opportunities in industrial/consumer robotics
"Look at a business like General Motors and you see a product, each of whose parts is known in detail... That is an enormous kind of database from which to develop really competent physical AI systems..."
— Sterling Anderson, [70:09]
- Battery/Home Energy:
- Emphasizes energy storage as a growth area: Second-life EV batteries powering major microgrids, partnerships with Redwood Materials
- Envisions V2G (vehicle-to-grid) and whole-home integration as part of GM’s offering, helping both customers and the energy grid manage demand and supply
Company Culture: Safety, Trust, and Incremental Progress
- Compared to Tesla/Ford:
- GM prioritizes safety and trust over making risky promises; while this can appear less splashy than Tesla, Sterling argues it’s the better long-term strategic play
"Our customers have driven over 700 million hands free miles with Super Cruise without a single accident attributed to the technology... The reality is far different for GM. Our customers have driven over 700 million hands free miles with Super Cruise without a single accident attributed to the technology."
— Sterling Anderson, [78:13]
- Trust-building:
- Numerous testimonials from customers whose lives were saved by GM’s safety features; long-term loyalty scores result
"I probably get three or four letters a week...many...walked away with just a scratch. I've had letters sent to me from people in a hospital bed thanking me and say, I will be buying a General Motors vehicle for the rest of my life because I know what you do and design into safety."
— Mary Barra, [75:44]
Memorable Moments & Notable Quotes
- The “Disk Drive” Analogy for Platform Shift:
"We're taking out the disk drive, guys. Get on board with flash storage. That's where the future is."
— Sterling Anderson, [51:12]
- Direct Consumer Feature Request:
"I just want to be able to push the seat memory button and have that switch the user profile as well. Can you fix that for me?"
— Nilay Patel, [80:11]
Sterling’s response: "I'm going to take a quick look. That can't be hard." [80:35]
- Safety as a Core Value:
"Safety is not just a kind of a cultural perspective. It is a commitment to our customer."
— Mary Barra, [75:44]
Important Timestamps
- [05:51] — GM’s product portfolio + resilience
- [07:17] — Slower EV adoption & strategic response
- [15:39] — Responding to criticism over CA emissions standard rollback
- [31:13] — Competing with Chinese EVs
- [35:04] — Systematic innovation vs. “skunkworks”
- [49:12] — Rationale for dropping CarPlay/Android Auto
- [54:09] — Relationship with Apple, app ecosystem
- [58:58] — AI as platform shift, new electrical architecture
- [66:47] — Will new/old cars upgrade to Gemini?
- [70:09] — Robotics vision & battery/energy applications
- [75:44] — Culture of safety and customer trust
- [80:11] — Nilay’s feature request for user profiles
Summary Conclusion
This episode delivers a comprehensive, candid look inside GM’s strategy at a pivotal moment: the company is betting big on in-house software, AI-powered platforms, new architectures and battery tech, all while navigating political swings, industry disruption, and consumer backlash over big interface changes. Mary Barra and Sterling Anderson paint GM as forward-leaning but pragmatic — integrating innovation at scale (not in “skunkworks”), refusing to rush showy but risky products, and continually prioritizing trust and safety. Whether you’re interested in the CarPlay wars, the future of AI in your car, or the tightrope that legacy automakers walk between regulation, innovation, and affordability, this conversation is a must-listen.