Decoding Tolerate It, Taylor’s Gothic gem, and an ironic, but tragic “portrait of a trad wife”

Summary

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Decoding Taylor Swift

Episode: Decoding “Tolerate It,” Taylor’s Gothic Gem and a Tragic “Trad Wife” Portrait

Hosts: Joe Romm and Toni Romm
Release Date: May 8, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into Taylor Swift’s “tolerate it” from her album evermore, exploring its haunting portrayal of a miserable marriage through Swift’s signature storytelling style. Joe and Toni Romm dissect how Swift weaves gothic literary influences, nuanced metaphors, and clever writing devices to create a song that is both emotionally resonant and a masterclass in viral, persuasive communication. The hosts also reflect on the broader “Unhappily Ever After” trilogy on evermore (alongside “ivy” and “no body, no crime”) and how Swift’s lyrics provide lessons for listeners on how to craft powerful narratives of their own.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. The “Unhappily Ever After” Trilogy and Gothic Influence ([00:59]–[02:16])

• Evermore’s Dark Heart: Joe notes that “tolerate it” is part of a trilogy about ruined marriages, placing it alongside “ivy” (infidelity) and “no body, no crime” (murder).
• Gothic Roots: Toni points out the album’s “gothic” flavor, comparing its themes of isolation and internal struggle to classic novels like Rebecca by Daphne du Maurier and Jane Eyre by Charlotte Brontë.
  • "I think we should bring back gothic novels. That’s my hot take." – Toni [02:04]
• Cultural Parallels: The hosts discuss how periods of isolation during pandemics (historically tuberculosis, now COVID-19) nurtured gothic literature, which Swift echoes during her own quarantine songwriting.

2. Lyrical Dissection: Verse by Verse ([03:21]–[16:25])

Opening Line Device ([04:38]–[04:51])

• Circularity: “I sit and watch you” opens and closes the song, a technique Joe and Toni call out as a way to give a song emotional resonance—mirroring Swift’s technique in “The Archer.”
• "She’s very intentional about this. Kind of a circular song." – Joe [04:56]

Emotional Distance and Internal Tension ([05:05]–[07:14])

• Atmospheric Stillness: Toni relates the “reading with your head low” lyric to classic gothic still-life moments and emotional distance, similar to Jane Eyre.
• Taylor’s Motif: Joe notes Swift’s repetition of “watching someone breathe,” connecting “tolerate it” to “Afterglow,” “Paper Rings,” “Last Kiss,” “Delicate,” and “Epiphany.”

Infantilization and Power Dynamics

• “Wait by the door like I'm just a kid…” ([08:00]–[09:21])
  • Both hosts note the lyric's deliberate infantilizing: the partner makes the narrator feel childlike and powerless, echoing “Jane Eyre” dynamics.

Color and Perspective ([09:31]–[10:36])

• Double Meaning: The lyric “Use my best colors for your portrait” is an allusion to both painting for love and seeing someone through “rose-colored glasses.”
• "Color is a very powerful metaphor for perspective and how to view things." – Toni [10:30]

Anger and Restraint ([10:36]–[11:08])

• Dropping the S-word: The lyric “Lay the table with the fancy shit” signals the narrator’s bubbling anger amid emotional restraint.
• "The s-bomb is the anger." – Joe [11:11]

Gaslighting and Insecurity ([11:56]–[12:23])

• The narrator second-guesses her experience, wondering if it’s “all in my head”—a subtle self-gaslighting that Joe highlights as particularly tragic.

3. Writing Secrets and Ironic Recurrence ([15:17]–[16:25])

• Irony Through Repetition: Joe explains Swift’s habit of reusing lines with evolving meaning—first earnest, then sardonic as narrative context changes.
  • "She will use a word or phrase the first time, and ... as she moves it again throughout the song, you kind of realize, oh, you know, she's kind of being ironic." – Joe [15:17]
• Not a “Trad Wife” Song: While the narrator is a “grim portrait of a trad wife,” the hosts clarify this is not autobiographical for Swift but rather a commentary on misogynist expectations.

4. The Bridge: Metaphor Masterclass ([16:37]–[21:03])

• Metaphorical Riches: The bridge brims with metaphors: “out building other worlds,” “threw blankets over my barbed wire,” “temple,” “mural,” “sky,” and “begging for footnotes.”
• "Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life." – Taylor Swift (sung by Toni) [17:11]
• Self-Reflection: The “barbed wire” metaphor is noted for self-awareness—suggesting the narrator is difficult to love, a rare moment of self-criticism.

5. The Tragic Fantasy of Escape ([22:16]–[23:07])

• Break Free and Leave Us in Ruins: The fantasy of leaving, yet feeling responsible for the “ruins,” reveals toxic self-blame.
• The Dagger Motif: “Took this dagger in me and removed it”—highlighting both pain and the unhealthy burden of carrying it for too long.
  • "She's had a fantasy of breaking free and leaving...but she ends up in the same place at the end of the song." – Toni [23:17]

6. Commentary: Generational Wisdom & Personal Stories ([27:28]–[30:11])

• Joe Shares a Personal Anecdote: He recalls his mother’s post-divorce revelation of a “weight lifted,” contextualizing the generational endurance of unhappy marriages and how much has changed.
  • "At one point, she realized that a big weight had been lifted off of her shoulder. This is literally what she said to me." – Joe [28:27]

7. The Power of Story Structure ([32:39]–[33:17])

• Circular Structure as Storytelling Lesson:
  • The song’s bookended lines gain new meaning as the story unfolds—a writing tactic everyone can deploy.
  • "This is basically a figure of speech, right, where you repeat words, but they have a different meaning because of the weight of what has preceded them." – Joe [33:01]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Swift's Narrative Power:
  • "Taylor Swift is a modern-day Shakespeare." – Joe [00:03]
• Gothic Novels & Cultural Trends:
  • "I think we should bring back gothic novels. That's my hot take." – Toni [02:04]
• On the Trad Wife Irony:
  • "This is a very grim portrait of a trad wife." – Joe [14:08]
• On Self-Gaslighting:
  • "She’s sort of gaslighting herself by thinking, oh, it's not right...I know my love should be celebrated. Harsh." – Joe [11:56]
• On Writer’s Tricks:
  • "She will use a word or phrase the first time...and then as she moves it again throughout the song, you kind of realize, oh, she’s kind of being ironic." – Joe [15:17]
• On Emotional Echo:
  • "In the opening, you don’t know what it means [‘I sit and watch you’], but by the end there’s this weight." – Joe [32:59]
• On Joe's Mom After Divorce:
  • "She said, at one point, she realized that a big weight had been lifted off of her shoulder..." – Joe [28:27]
• On Cat Tolerance:
  • "The cat doesn’t tolerate you...the cat tolerates it.” – Joe [32:06]
• On Jake Gyllenhaal:
  • "Hashtag Rake Jake. Fake Jake." – Toni [34:09]
• Taylor Quote (via Apple Music):
  • "There was a part of me that was relating to that, because at some point in my life, I felt that way. So I ended up writing the song ‘Tolerate It.’ That’s about sort of trying to love." – Taylor Swift (read by Joe) [33:52]

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Key Timestamps

• 00:59 – Introduction to “tolerate it” as part of Evermore's divorce trilogy.
• 02:01 – Discussion of gothic influences and novels.
• 04:38 – Analysis of the song’s circular opening and closing lines.
• 08:00 – Infantilization “wait by the door like I’m just a kid.”
• 10:36 – Metaphors of color and anger in the song.
• 15:17 – Irony through repeated phrases—writing lesson.
• 17:11 – Bridge metaphors and emotional revelations.
• 22:16 – The tragic fantasy of leaving.
• 28:27 – Joe recounts his mother’s feeling of release post-divorce.
• 32:39 – Circularity as a master storytelling tool.
• 33:52 – Taylor herself on drawing inspiration from Rebecca.
• 34:09 – “Rake Jake, Fake Jake”—humor on villainous exes.

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Storytelling Tools from This Episode

• Circular Structure: Begin and end with the same line for resonance.
• Repetition with Shifting Meaning: Use phrases that gain irony or depth as the story develops.
• Metaphor Layering: Stack metaphors (“temple,” “mural,” “sky”) for emotional breadth.
• Emotional Specificity: Use concise, vivid imagery to land feelings quickly.
• Show, Don’t Tell: Let actions (“wait by the door,” “polish plates”) reveal character states.

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Conclusion

Joe and Toni conclude that “tolerate it” is a “tragic, gothic gem” that lays bare the pain of unreciprocated love through deft narrative craft. Listeners are encouraged to try Swift’s writing techniques—not just to appreciate her music in new ways, but to become more powerful communicators and empathetic storytellers themselves.

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Upcoming:
The hosts tease the next episodes on Taylor’s Reputation album—"Are you ready for it?" [35:40]—and invite audience participation, sharing, and comments to grow the “Decoding Taylor Swift” community.

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Joe Rome.

[B]

And I'm his daughter, Toni.

[A]

Welcome to Decoding Taylor Swift, where you'll learn the storytelling tools Swift uses that make her a modern day Shakespeare, but

[B]

can make you a better communicator so you can drive your mission and build your tribe.

[A]

This podcast will not only transform how you think about Swift's songs, but also give you the life changing tools to lead, connect, and change the world.

[B]

This time we are talking about the fifth and usually most emotionally potent song off of her album, Evermore. Tolerate it. I really love this song. When we saw the Eras tour, when we watched it originally, when it came out in movie theaters, gosh, this was one of the songs that I went back and listened to because I had never heard it and I thought that it was really quite good.

[A]

All right, well.

[B]

And I hate Jake Gyllenhaal and I hope that every day he's walking around,

[A]

you think this is about Jake Gyllenhaal,

[B]

ashamed of what he's done? I think it's reminiscent of Jake Gyllenhaal. He's so much older and wiser and he tolerates it.

[A]

There's certainly hints of all too well in this. It's a. A very potent song. According to Swift on the prologue to Evermore, it's part of a trilogy, the Unhappily Ever after anthology of marriages gone bad that includes infidelity, ambivalent toleration, and even murder. So that's Ivy, Tolerate it, and Nobody.

[B]

No crime.

[A]

Yeah, right. So that's good for you, Taylor. Three unhappy marriages on one album. Prep's record. Yay.

[B]

Yeah, well, it was based on Rebecca by what's Her Face?

[A]

By Daphne du Maurier. If I'm pronouncing that right, it is

[B]

loosely, because who cares about French? It's just not even a language.

[A]

Those. Those who've ever read or seen the movie for Rebecca know that it veers into very dark places and it's just a very bizarro plot.

[B]

Oh, maybe I should read it.

[A]

Well, it's kind of like all the gothic novels. It has a gothic novel. Really?

[B]

Ugh. Love gothic novels.

[A]

Even though It's, I think 1938 book.

[B]

I think we should bring back gothic novels. That's my hot take. We need to bring back the gothic period. I don't know why it ever left. This is certainly a gothic album. I think I would say the overall author of the album.

[A]

If you have three unhappy marriages, one of which ends in murder.

[B]

Well, and Willow, I mean, it's about. It's like a mysterious. No, yeah, this is totally a gothic album. I mean, or inspired by gothic literature. It's a modern album. Right. But a lot of the songs are inspired by. I mean, especially during COVID you know, in isolation for sure. It's very easy to.

[A]

We do have to remember.

[B]

This is mirroring how people would isolate themselves during the tuberculosis outbreaks during. When the gothic literature peak was. You know, all the Bronte sisters ended up dying of it, so. And they were very talented writers. Very isolated.

[A]

Yeah. Well, and good news also is that Antonia is going to be singing again.

[B]

Oh, well. Yeah.

[A]

People are listening longer.

[B]

Whether you're deaf or not.

[A]

I hope people tune in to the. To the previous episode, which was about champagne problems. Because that song, people have been really listening to it and so let's dive into this with the first verse. My daughter.

[B]

Sure. Let me pull up that music and

[A]

as usual, stick around till the end where we will take the deeper overall meaning. Now we're going to go through the lyrics and try to, you know, see what they mean, but also see what writing secrets we can learn from Taylor along the way.

[B]

Let me just get the first note and I have to remember the timing on this song is weird.

[C]

I sit and watch you reading with your head low. I wake and watch you breathing with your eyes closed. I sit and watch you. I notice everything you do or don't do. You're so much older and wiser and I.

[B]

We can like end there.

[A]

Yeah, it's interesting this, this.

[B]

I still have an echo on your end, by the way. So probably you should. You should mute yourself when I start singing.

[A]

Oh, there is. Yes, I can do that. Okay. So key thing. I sit and watch you is the opening line and the closing line.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So that's another one of those songs.

[B]

Always like the archer.

[A]

Yes. She's very intentional about this. Kind of a circular song. So reading with your head low.

[B]

So that's kind of not paying attention to her. Yeah, I mean, and reading just to go to the gothic point, you know, very often seeing vignettes or kind of drawn out time dilated pictures of stillness and the disconnect between the stillness of another character and the internal like struggle of another character that's very prevalent in. In gothic literature. And I think like opening with I sit and watch your reading. And of course, nothing more gothic than somebody reading and not paying attention to their spouse. I think that that is.

[A]

Well, and the spouse not doing anything.

[B]

It's all about the tension, the internal tension.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Very much reminiscent of. Of how In. In Jane Eyre. I don't know. I just thought of this, like in Jane Eyre, in the beginning of the book, she is always off reading on her own. It's very kind of solitudy. Very like. Oh. Like, oh, my gosh, she's so depressed and sad because she's being abused. Which is all true.

[A]

Well, and I. I wake and watch you breathing with your eyes closed.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, he's not paying attention while she's.

[A]

And as Genius notes, this is a very common motif for Taylor.

[B]

It like an afterglow.

[A]

It include in paper. In paper rings. Now I wake up in the night and watch you breathe.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Last kiss. Delicate also. And then epiphany. I'm gonna guess, based on that, that this is something that she herself has done. We all do at some point.

[B]

I don't know. I've done it.

[A]

Taylor, of course, being a woman with an amazing imagination, she's always gonna sit there and do it. And then it's gonna come up with lyrics in her songs which, like, this would be good in the song. And I notice everything you do or don't do. Now, that's ominous also.

[B]

It is also ominous because clearly what she's trying to say is he's not doing a lot. Why would you draw attention to the fact that he's not doing something if it is significant to her? So, you know.

[A]

Yeah. And you're so much older and wiser. This is where you get, Jake. You know, that's where you get. You know, all too well is. Is. But. But not the only one. She's, you know, Dear John. I mean, she is. She had the older guys phase.

[B]

Hey, you know, older guys. Ain't nothing wrong with that. You know, just because. Just because the wrapper wrinkles don't mean the candy ain't sweet.

[A]

Well, if you pick good guys, which

[B]

is right to do that, even for people who are your age.

[A]

True. And then she does this and I, you know, which. Which is a signature thing. She's doing that throughout the song.

[C]

Wait by the door like I'm just a kid Use my best colors for your portrait Lay the table with the fancy shit and watch you tolerate it if it's all in my head Tell me now Tell me I've got it wrong Somehow I know my love should be celebrated but you tolerate it anyway There you go.

[A]

Yeah. All right. Okay. This is more depressing drawing of this marriage, so. And she's infantile.

[B]

She's infantile. This is so Jane Eyre coded. Maybe it's Just because I really liked Jane Eyre when I read it. But it's like, you know, she, as a girl, she is the governess of the house of like Mr. Rochester, which is like this dude who's older than her by like an insane amount of time, like 20 or like 16 years or something, which I'm like, what. What is up with that? And she does things to try to impress him, but he does things to try to impress her. It's a whole thing. Love them. They're low key. Crazy.

[A]

Well, yeah. And this is, this is the infantilization. I wait by the door like I'm just a kid.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's kind of a double edged sword, you know, you feel the relationship is infantilizing you. Like, I. I feel like that is what she's trying to say.

[A]

Use my best. And this is more infantilization. It continues. Use my best colors for portrait.

[B]

People used to paint portraits for their lovers. Like, Like, I don't know. In Emma there was a lot of portrait paintings.

[A]

And if we're talking about famous portraits, there is the Portrait of Dorian Gray.

[B]

Dorian Gray, which I started reading and I. I have not finished it, but it was quite good. The part that I've read, this guy

[A]

is kind of a Dorian Gray character, a little bit, at least the way he treats her. But. And use my best colors. You know, this, this I get. When you're a kid, it's a common expression. Taylor. It's a little double edged because she has songs like Red in which she talks about all the colors of the relationship.

[B]

Right. And as genius notes, you know, I feel like this is also an allusion to the expression. You know, she's painting him in a. In a better light than he is.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Perhaps.

[A]

Yes. Rose colored glasses.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Yes. She is looking at the world.

[B]

Color is a very powerful metaphor for perspective and, and how to view things.

[A]

And then kind of a little out of the blue, lay the table with the fancy shit.

[B]

I don't think it's out of the blue. I think she's like trying to. She's like oscillating between two states in which she's like, I'm trying. I'm like doing like. Like, I want you to like, love me. Like, I feel like I'm not heard. Like. Like, I'm doing all this stuff for you. I'm doing all this shit for you. Like, why don't you love me? Oh, my gosh. She's frustrated, you know, so this is anger.

[A]

I mean, because. Because a lot of this is a very Restrained song. But. But here. Yeah, The S bomb is. The. Is the anger.

[B]

The S bomb.

[A]

The S bomb. The sh. Bomb.

[B]

Okay. Did you know that I got in trouble at school when I was younger because he would, like, say things like Batman, damn it around me. And then the teachers would get mad. They'd be like, where'd you hear that from? And my mom had to sit down and have a talk with us about it and be like, you can't say Batman, damn it. You have to say Batman. Dang. No, that is why. And I never stopped cursing since then.

[A]

All righty. And so now we get to the chorus and watch you tolerate it. So. So this is interesting. She's watching him tolerate it. So, you know, like, she watches him.

[B]

She just. She, like, feels powerless. Like she can't really do much or. We'll see.

[A]

And then she asks herself if it's all in my head. Tell me now. So now she's doubting herself. Tell me I got it wrong somehow. I mean, this is sort of a bizarre form of gas. She's sort of gaslighting herself by thinking, oh, sure, it's not right. I mean, he didn't say anything. He's just clearly doing it to her. I know. My love should be celebrated. Harsh.

[B]

I mean, it's all straightforward, but it's pretty bad.

[A]

It is a very straightforward song, but there's, as we'll see some things beneath it. Let's go. Let's do the.

[C]

Yeah, I.

[B]

Okay.

[C]

I greet you with the battle hero's welcome. I take your indiscretions all in good fun. I sit and listen. I polish plates until they gleam and glisten. You're so much older and wiser. And I.

[A]

Yeah, it is interesting again because she's. She's connecting the. The verse to the chorus. So I greet you with a battle hero's welcome. Which, of course, is a. Quite different than I wait by the door just like I'm a kid. But it's still very effusive.

[B]

Effusive is a good word.

[A]

Thank you. I take your indiscretions all in good fun. Oh, well, this is the worst line. This is harsh. This is reminding me of Cardigan.

[B]

Yeah, right. Like, you keep coming back and like, he keeps leaving.

[A]

Yeah, he keeps leaving. Yeah, all in good fun. So that's. That's just harsh. I mean, that's.

[B]

That's not great.

[A]

No. I sit and listen and this isn't. And by the way, as much as the mood maybe is Taylor's. This isn't about Taylor. Right. She's not a. She's not a trad wife.

[B]

Right.

[A]

This is. This is a very grim portrait of a trad wife. Right. Taylor's gone.

[B]

That's why. I mean, it's not actually, like, about Jake Gyllenhaal. I mean, not one of the songs that it's been like, obviously, about Jake Gyllenhaal, but it is definitely. I'm sure she incorporated some of the pain she felt in that relationship into this song. Like, she had to. If it's quite clearly, you know, there's so many parallels that I'm sure she would.

[A]

And then we get her. Then we get the OCD response. I polish plates until they gleam and glisten.

[B]

Right. She wants things to be perfect for her.

[A]

Right. And, like, this guy doesn't care. Right. I mean, you're not. You're just doing it for you.

[C]

Tolerate it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then you're so much older and wiser, which is now being a little sardonic, which is.

[B]

That's also a good word, sardonic. Why don't you. Why don't you define for the people what it means?

[A]

Well, it's. It's. It's. It's a bit.

[B]

Very specific word.

[A]

Yes. It's. It's.

[B]

And for the people. I mean. I mean, me. Because it's like.

[A]

I would say it's. It's harshly, sarcastically ironic.

[B]

Right, right, right, right, right.

[A]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, And. And. And in other words, she's not. This time she repeats, you're so much older and wiser. And I think this is a very good writing trick. Right. The first time you use it. And she does this a lot. And I think this is a. A something everyone as a writer can learn. She will use a word or phrase the first time, and you will sort of take it literally. And then as she moves it again throughout the song, you kind of realize, oh, you know, she's kind of being ironic. And, yeah, she gets that. He isn't really wiser. Right. He may be older, but, you know. So. Yeah. And then, you know, we're back to the chorus.

[C]

Be by the door like I'm just a kid Use my best colors for your portrait Lay the table with the fancy shit and watch you tolerate it if it's all in my head Tell me now Tell me I've got it wrong somehow I know my love Whoa I know my love should be celebrated but you tolerate.

[B]

Wait, what is it?

[C]

I know my love should be celebrated but you tolerated.

[B]

Let me go to the bridge.

[C]

While you were out there building porch.

[B]

Wait, what was it?

[C]

While you were out building other worlds, where was I? Where's that man who threw blankets over my barbed wire? I made you my temple, my mural, my sky. Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life. Drawing hearts by the byline. Drawing hearts in the byline. Always taking up too much space or time. You assume I'm fine, but what would you do if I.

[A]

Anyway, okay, yeah, so we did the chorus. So we're not. I don't have to do the chorus again. While you were out building other worlds, where was I? Well, not in his world. That's clear.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Where's that? Now this is. This is another out of semi. Out of the blue line. Where's that man who. Who throw blankets over my barbed wire?

[B]

Which is a metaphor that she's used before in Invisible String, which is probably my favorite song off of. Off of folklore. She's like, oh my God, who wrapped all of my past mistakes in barbed wire? Just to show her that she doesn't need to be afraid of that anymore.

[A]

She wants to touch. Now what's interesting though about the metaphor. Well, first of all, this is the nicest thing she said about him, presumably as he wooed her in the first place. He wasn't this guy.

[B]

He was right, obviously, because he would date this guy right now.

[A]

So the metaphor, to be clear, what she is saying is right. And this is her first self criticism. I mean, she is describing herself as a person who has barbed wire around herself. And he climbed over that barbed wire. By putting a blanket on, he softened her barbed wire. Now you might say that's also a little controlling. But the point is, she is a very prickly person. Right? I mean, that's right. But what does it mean for a person to have barbed wire? You know, that you don't get too close to them. Right. So we know this is a little self revelation of how this dynamic got to this point. Right. We're only hearing her version of it. It'd be interesting if she ever sang a song from his side. But I made you my temple, my mural, my sky. Okay. Three consecutive metaphors. Nice.

[B]

And temples, like I worshiped him. My murals, like I made everything that I was inspired by. And my sky is. I looked up and I. I mean like you look up and you see him and. And it's just he's all around you. Because the sky, of course, I mean, the sky technically is all around you. It's not like the sky does not start at one point.

[A]

Right. And she will do a song. You're bigger than the whole sky.

[B]

Right.

[C]

Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. You were bigger than the whole sky.

[B]

It's a nice song.

[A]

Right?

[C]

You were more than just a shot. Time.

[A]

Yeah. And in fact, the interesting thing about that song, bigger than the whole sky, is a reference, apparently. I checked to Emily Dickinson.

[B]

Ooh, I love her.

[A]

Because Emily Dickinson has a poem about, your brain is bigger than the sky, by which she meant your imagination is the biggest thing of all. But in this case, of course, her imagination here. Not so pretty. Now I'm begging now. Now here is where she gets. Now I'm begging for footnotes in the story of your life. Wow, you are. This is.

[B]

He just does not care.

[A]

No, he is not. She's a non player character, to use the modern term. But also, we've now switched over to writing metaphors.

[B]

People just say NPC and just npc. Yes.

[A]

I was just trying to elaborate for the boomers who are. And others who are.

[B]

Yes, but I mean, most of them know.

[A]

But yes, this is. So we've switched over to the writing metaphor.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And she'll continue that drawn hearts in the byline. So of course the byline, as you know, as a journalist, is you. The person's name who's written the story.

[B]

Right, right.

[A]

And all she can do is like, yeah, sad. Yes.

[B]

But even doing that, she's like taking up too much space and time.

[A]

Yeah, always. Exactly. And. And the implication, always taking up too much space and time implies some sort of criticism, I guess, that she's given. He's given her, like, you're wasting my time. Or like, you know, or.

[B]

Or an implication that's just like, sorry, I'm busy. Like, I'm so busy.

[A]

Like, yeah, right, right. You assume I'm fine. Okay. So she's not shared this verbally. So she's going around, I don't know, glowering or staring. I mean, I guess she. Can you imagine just it literally if. If I were reading and you're just. You're just staring at me. Right. I don't do it. You're not. I don't. I'm so not paying attention to you that I don't even want to make a remark like that. You're not doing anything while I'm reading. So this is pretty grim. This has been going on a long time and it's not pretty. And now she goes, but what would you do if I.

[B]

And then she just goes into the chorus.

[A]

Yes, a new chorus. It's not the same chorus.

[B]

It's different. Yeah. Okay. Mute thyself, sire. Mute thyself. Okay.

[C]

Break free and leave us in ruin. Took this dagger in me and removed it Gained the weight of you Then lose it Believe me, I could do it if it's all in my head Tell me now Tell me I've got it wrong somehow I know my love should be celebrated but you tolerate it. I sit and watch you anyway.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So yes, this is her little fantasy. So she's had a fantasy of breaking free and leaving.

[B]

Yes. But she ends up in the same place at the end of the song.

[A]

Right. She ends up in the same place at the end. So this is just a fantasy. Break free. But you know, it's interesting how she puts it. Break free and leave us in ruins.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, why is that? Would he's left the relationship in ruins. I mean, this is her. Her very self destructive thinking. Right. She's blaming herself. Right. I would be the one ruining the relationship. Yeah. And then of course took this dagger and now she goes even more extreme. So this guy has put a dagger into her heart. I removed it and she imagines taking it and removing it. Which of course in the real world would be.

[B]

You're not supposed to do. You're actually. If you guys ever get stabbed, just please do not take whatever is obstructing you out. Don't do it. Please go to the hospital. Or a doctor.

[A]

Yes, like same thing. When you get an arrow. All these.

[B]

If you get shot, do not take them out. Go to a doctor.

[A]

Get a doctor.

[B]

You could take them out, but then parts of them are still in you. Or if you. It's like in the Martian. Like what keeps him alive because what's his face? Andy Weiner is the dude who wrote it. Right. I know that it's not pronounced wiener. It can't be. Hold on. Andy. Andy Weir. I need help.

[A]

Andy Weir. Yes.

[B]

And he wrote I love Andy Weir. I shouldn't even be mispronouncing his name. I talked to. Well, he just. Yeah, he wrote Project Hail Mary and it just got turned into a new movie. And the movie was really good. I didn't know he was still out here writing these. I didn't know that the Martian was from 2011. Holy Girl and Artemis.

[A]

Well, that's not when the movie was from. That's when the book is from.

[B]

Yeah, I know, that's what I'm saying. I thought these books were like released in the 90s and then they were like, oh, what if we take that fun little book? No, I love Andy Weir, he's super. He's weird. You could say he's 53 years old. Oh, my God, he's so cool. Anyway, the point is, is that all the astrophysicists at my school who I'm in, I mean, at least the one that I'm doing research with, he really likes Andy Weir. And he doesn't think that project Hail Mary is the most accurate, but he does like Artemis. He thinks Artemis is pretty cool.

[A]

It's interesting you say that, my astrophysics majoring daughter. That is true, because I sent you a video of.

[B]

And he thinks the Martian is great. Obviously. He's like, nothing can beat the Martian. But Artemis is quite good, actually.

[A]

So Neil DeGrasse Tyson was being interviewed by what, Stephen Colbert. And he was talking about the Martian. And apparently he knows Andrew Weir. And apparently Weir sent him a note saying, while I was writing this, every time I was writing a line I wasn't certain of, I was like, wait, is Neil DeGrasse Tyson gonna tweet out that I did something wrong?

[B]

That's funny. Well, hey, you know, Mark, what's his fuck. Who's. Who's. The main character of the Martian canonically went to Uchicago.

[A]

So there you go. So, yes, gain. So she has that on the wall

[B]

in the admissions department. They're like, oh, my God, he went here. She's not real. He's not real.

[A]

Take this dagger in me and removed it. Gain the weight of you, then lose it.

[B]

Believe me, I could do it. Oh, but she couldn't, though. Like, I can't lie, right? She really could not. Yeah, but the point is Sassy,

[A]

you know, he's a burden on her.

[C]

It's all in my head.

[B]

Tell me now.

[A]

And right now we go to those if and. And so, you know, this is just a tragedy. A tragedy of her, not her being stuck. And partly she thinks she is in her head or she deserves it or. Or that if she. It's a perfectly. Maybe this is the way normal relationships are and if I leave, then I've ruined it, Right? She doesn't know. I guess she's. Because she's young, right? She's young and she's like, oh, maybe this is how marriages all go.

[B]

What a silly girl. What a silly billy.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty. But, you know, I think about your marriage when.

[B]

Just kidding. You can cut that out.

[A]

Well, it's interesting. No, no, you know, it's. It isn't how the marriage went. But. But interestingly, I will say, I was wondering whether I should say this or not? My mother. So my mother. My parents split when I was 19 at MIT.

[B]

Oh, you'll find a way to slip in that you went to MIT and

[A]

I. Oh, I didn't mean to. I was not trying to slip it in. They all know that I went to MIT.

[B]

Oh, my God. Did you know that my R.A. knows you? Because he, like, remembers you? Because he's like, oh, he's that dude that mentioned he went to MIT within the first five seconds of me meeting him, I'm like, that's my dad. Love him. Love him.

[A]

If you mean this must have been an RA in physics.

[B]

An ra? No, my resident assistant. My door when you were moving me in.

[A]

Oh, I was talking to him.

[B]

But it's so funny.

[A]

Come up. I don't remember.

[B]

No, he loves. He thinks you're funny. He likes you. He thought you were my friend.

[A]

He's an interesting guy. I don't mention it. I. Trust me, I do not mention it randomly. I'm sorry. But the story I was going to tell you is that when my mother got divorced from my father, or at least knew. Knew it was over, she said, because she didn't know what it would be like to be divorced. But at one point, she realized that a big weight had been lifted off of her shoulder. This is literally what she said to me. She said, because she hadn't appreciated this was. We're talking about a white. They were born in the mid-20s, 1920s. So. And they were married in the 40s, 1950s. So this is a classic of that kind. And it.

[B]

She didn't realize they were old when they had you.

[A]

Yeah, they were. She was 30. Yes. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Good for her.

[A]

Yeah, she was 19, 25. So, yes, she was. She was. But I was the youngest. I was the youngest. No, no, no. The first, my brother David, she had when she was 29, I think. But yes, relatively speaking, for that time.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Because in the 1950s, it is true, people at the average age of a woman at marriage was 21.

[B]

Jesus.

[A]

Cray cray. So, yeah.

[B]

But girl, could you imagine that today? Like, half of these men are like. Like, no wonder women were in such abusive relationships. Like, when you meet a guy and he's 21, he probably sucks.

[A]

Well, he was probably. I think his average age of the guy might have been 25.

[B]

But the point is, people like, that's. That's.

[A]

I'm just saying it's too young for anybody to be making a lifetime, you know? But again, different times. But I'm just saying this is A. You know, this is what. This is how bad. You know, this is the triplet of bad marriages. And this is the. You know, is it better than the murder one or the infidelity one? Except. Except this is an infidelity marriage, too. Right? Right. So this is both in anyway. This is a bad marriage.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And then the tragic last five words. The tragedy of and so do anything. Right. And so you'll never catch me doing

[B]

that if I'm unhappy with a guy cut off.

[A]

Yeah. Well, look, this has gone on a while, right? This is not something that's like, oh, just a month. Right? What does that say?

[B]

It's positive axolotl. Ugh. It's not showing clearly. He's very cute.

[A]

You can read it. Just read it.

[B]

Whatever it says. I may be a tiny axolotl, but I believe in you. Go do your thing. You matter. Axolotl. You can cut that out. I just, like. I don't know. I saw it.

[A]

I'm not gonna cut it out.

[B]

Oh, look at how cute it is, because I'm low key off my meds right now.

[A]

An inanimate object.

[B]

It thinks that, hey, it loves you.

[A]

It believes in you.

[B]

It believes in you.

[A]

Everyone should have something that believes in them. Hopefully animate.

[B]

But if all you got is an

[A]

inanimate object, it's better than nothing. I mean, look, a cat or a dog, that's a great thing to have. Believe in you. Dogs believe in you for sure. That's a lot. Why people have them because you come

[B]

home, they're, like, lonely. Nobody else believes them, but the dog does.

[A]

And the cat doesn't, by the way.

[B]

The cat doesn't tolerate you. The cat.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

The cat tolerates it.

[A]

That's it. This is a cat song. The cat tolerates you for sure.

[B]

No, I think. I think cats. Cats are rooting for you because you're their source of food. And if you die and you're not in the house, then they can't even eat you. So it's like, what is it all for?

[A]

I wouldn't. I don't know that the cats wouldn't.

[B]

I think Sugar, I think Oatmeal believes in me. I think. I think Oatmeal's sad that I leave him, but Oatmeal believes in me. Sugar. Sugar is just terrified. Sugar doesn't know what's going on.

[A]

She's really scared. Sugar is our skittish cat. Is the skittish cat. And she's very cute.

[B]

She doesn't know what's happening.

[A]

Again, this is I think the big takeaway from the perspective of storytelling is the circularity.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Beginning lines, the ending lines. And once again, in the second time it's used, it carries a fantastic amount of weight in the opening. You don't know what it means.

[B]

Gone through the emotional journey.

[A]

Right, Right. So again, one of this. This is basically a figure of speech, right. Where you repeat words, but they have a different meaning and because of the weight of what has preceded them. So, you know, I just think. Yeah, it's.

[B]

It's a.

[A]

It's a. It is clearly captured. I mean, Taylor said when she said in this interview on Apple Music that this came from Rebecca. She says, there was a part of me. It says she's, you know, in the movie, the wife's husband just tolerates her. She's doing all these things, and she's trying so hard, and she's trying to impress him, and he's just tolerating the whole time. There was a part of me. This is Taylor speaking. That was relating to that, because at some point in my life, I felt that way. So I ended up writing the song Tolerated. That's about sort of trying to love.

[B]

I wonder when she felt that way.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I wonder when an older man mistreated her. Several times, actually.

[A]

Yeah. Well, you know, this is. This is a different type of mistreatment than Dear John. I mean, you're right. In other words. And. Or. Or. Or fake Jake.

[B]

Hashtag Rake Jake. Fake Jake.

[A]

Hashtag. Right.

[B]

I know. If he. Listen, guys, if you. This is the per. Like, this is the most important amount, like, empirical proof that we have for that Jake Gyllenhaal is a bad person. It's. Because if he wasn't, why is his name Jake that rhymes with so many words for being a shit person? Snake. Fake rake. That's so many. Like Antonia.

[A]

What.

[B]

What bad words does that rhyme with?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Case codes? Joseph. What? Can't even think. Not even one word I can think of that actually just rhymes with Joseph. None.

[A]

No. And. And. And for those.

[B]

That's why we're good people. And Jake is bad.

[A]

Exactly. And of course, rake is kind of an. A. A. The kind of word you would see in a Gothic novel right of that time that. No. Maybe a little after. It's kind of.

[B]

Could you imagine you. You, like, walk around and then there's just kind of a dude named Jake there. That's kind of crazy. I would see Jacob. Jacob is certainly a name that is like.

[A]

That's my middle name.

[B]

I know it is.

[A]

You know, it is yeah, no, yeah,

[B]

I know your middle name. I've, like, lived with you for nine years.

[A]

Nobody. Nope.

[B]

What?

[A]

Alrighty. We have finished up Evermore, by the way, I realize I didn't hold the sheet up of the errors too early because it's. This is what's coming.

[B]

Okay. Oh, my God. Reputation. I love. I'm ready for Reputation. I'm ready for it.

[A]

We're doing Reputation. And then we have one song.

[B]

Baby, Let the babes begin. I don't even know what to practice, bro.

[C]

Let the games begin.

[B]

Let the games begin. Are you ready for it anyway?

[A]

Yeah, ready for it. Delicate. Don't blame me. And of course, look what you made me do.

[C]

Oh, look what you made me.

[A]

One song from Speak now, which is, of course, a great song. Enchanted. But then we go to Red before Folklore, right? So.

[B]

Got a long way to go.

[A]

All righty. Well, we are. We're getting there. We are. So far, I'd say we're about A. We're 14 songs through 44. So we are almost a third of the way through. And we really appreciate you. Please share this with your friends. We are doing really well. Next week I will talk about where we are in the ranks, but we're doing really well on Spotify rankings both. You can find us on the trending podcast list. All. Every category. We're quite high up these days. Where would we. 38, I think, which is our highest ever. And we're also in the top 50 music podcasts, so thank you again. Please do send us comments. Do like us comment.

[B]

Like, share, share. I know. It's like a whole thing like, oh, nobody's commented. It's like, why should I comment? Let me tell you something. If nobody gave money to a clearly homeless person on the street, doesn't mean that you shouldn't. Doesn't mean that you should. If nobody sees a starving little orphan boy on the street, nobody helps this orphan boy.

[A]

It's not true.

[B]

It doesn't mean that you shouldn't.

[A]

But. Or what you can do is go to our. Where we did Cruel Summer.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because that's got a ridiculous amount of comments on Hasn't.

[B]

And some odd comments. You.

[A]

You don't have some odd comments. The Cruel Summer.

[B]

I'm paying attention to those comments. I don't know what was happening. There was some drama. There was some tea and that was

[A]

kind of drama there. And I don't know.

[B]

Right.

[A]

By the way, if any of you can figure out what is going on,

[B]

we'll give you, like, money.

[A]

Yeah. Just please make a comment. We'll give you a shout out on the show next time. All right, well, I think we're going to wrap it up.

[C]

Yeah. Bye.

[A]

Bye.

[C]

Bye, dad. Love you.

[A]

Love you, sweetie pie. Bye.