Honey is Taylor’s most ingenious love letter to words and reveals her top storytelling secrets

Summary

Decoding Taylor Swift - "Honey" Episode Summary

Podcast: Decoding Taylor Swift
Hosts: Joe Romm and Toni Romm
Episode: "Honey is Taylor’s most ingenious love letter to words and reveals her top storytelling secrets"
Date: December 30, 2025

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Main Theme

This episode is an in-depth lyrical and thematic exploration of Taylor Swift’s song "Honey" from the "Life of a Showgirl" album. Joe Romm, a recognized storytelling expert, and his daughter Toni unpack how "Honey" is not just a romantic love letter to Swift’s current partner, Travis Kelce, but a sophisticated, playful ode to language itself. The hosts show how Swift utilizes double meanings, figurative language, references to her own discography, and literary devices to create layers of meaning—providing listeners with storytelling tools that can be applied far beyond her music.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Opening With the Chorus: Immediate Foreshadowing

• [00:46-01:24]
  • Joe and Toni note that starting with the chorus (“You can call me honey if you want / Because I’m the one you want”) is uncommon for Swift and intentionally foregrounds dual meanings of "want" and "honey."
  • Joe: “She is using the word want in two different ways...which is a figure of speech when you do that. This song foreshadows that words have two meanings depending on how you use them.”
• Sets up the song's meta-commentary about words themselves.

2. Intertextual & Cultural References

• [01:57-04:05]
  • Joe discusses Swift linking "Honey" back to previous songs, notably “Call It What You Want” and “Mine” and the influence of Grease’s “You’re the One That I Want.”
  • Taylor played Sandy in Grease as a child and later sang Grease songs live, blending personal and pop cultural history.

3. Gendered Meanings and Weaponizing Endearments

• [04:07-06:11]
  • Toni elaborates on how supposedly “sweet” nicknames (honey, sweetie) can be wielded aggressively, especially among women:
    • Toni: "It can feel aggressive, which I think is true...it’s more of those softer words like sweetie, honey, hun that can take on more negative meaning."
  • The discussion attributes inspiration to Kylie Kelsey for calling out how these words can be “passive aggressive.”

4. Double Meanings, Imagery, and Color Motifs

• [10:11-11:57]
  • Swift uses contrasting images ("summertime spritz," "pink sky," "wintergreen kiss") and color symbolism across her work.
    • Joe: “Taylor’s big on colors...she often uses colors to try to symbolize different emotions.”
  • Toni notes references to prior songs (“Invisible String,” “Lover,” “Red”) and how color continues to be code for emotional states.

5. The Song as a Key to Swift’s Storytelling Method

• [14:01-15:36]
  • Joe calls "Honey" a “key or legend to the whole album,” directly teaching listeners that Swift’s lyrics often have multiple meanings.
    • Joe: "If you're trying to understand Taylor's songs, you should not assume that the literal surface meaning is the only meaning.”
  • They highlight the frequent use of double entendres, metaphors, irony, and antithesis—hallmark techniques for any aspiring storyteller.

6. Wordplay & Double Entendres

• [17:31-24:15]
  • The phrase “forever night stand” is dissected humorously, mixing sexual and literal wordplay.
  • Lines like “kicking in doors,” “take it to the floor,” “buy the paint in the color of your eyes,” are unpacked for their layered meanings—sometimes literal, sometimes sly, sometimes both.
    • Toni: “It’s written as B-U-Y, but you can also hear it as ‘by the paint’… since songs are often like that.”
  • Swift’s penchant for puns and ambiguity is tied back to Shakespeare.

7. Recontextualizing Negative Experiences Through Words & Relationships

• [28:00-29:57]
  • Swift contrasts the hostility of past interactions (“when anyone called me late night he was screwing around…”, “when anyone called me lovely… not to praise me”) with the genuineness of her current relationship.
  • The theme: her partner gives these words different meaning because he means it.
    • Jen (referenced by Joe): “You stay until the morning answers one of Taylor's longest running questions: Who could ever leave me, darling, but who could stay?”

8. The Word “Lovely” as a Swiftian Motif

• [32:48-36:11]
  • Joe checks the Swift lexicon, showing “lovely” is almost always used sarcastically or negatively.
    • Past examples from “Speak Now,” “All Too Well,” and “Lover” are cited.
    • Joe: “She’s never used the word lovely to denote something genuine. She’s never, ever done that.”

9. Techniques You Can Steal: The Power of ‘But’ in Storytelling

• [37:52-38:41]
  • Joe highlights the song's repeated use of “but”—the most important word in storytelling—because it creates narrative twists and tension.
    • Joe: “Good storytelling has fewer ands, but more buts... twists and turns and tensions that are caused by the word but.”

10. Meta-Commentary on the Song’s Structure

• [36:42-37:47]
  • Analysis of "Honey" starting and ending (almost) on the same lyric, a favorite Swift device signifying cyclicality or closure.
  • Comparison to “Red,” where opening/closing lines subtly change meaning via tense.

11. Miscellaneous Memorable Moments

• [07:55-10:11, 18:08-19:23, 31:13-32:17]
  • Offbeat banter about fidget toys and Irish ancestry.
  • Anecdotes about Joe’s childhood and Bob Dylan.
  • Jokes about "one night stand" literal vs. sexual meanings, with Toni playfully refusing to acknowledge the latter.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Meta and Self-Reflection
  • Joe: “This song, which is a love letter to words, is also a compendium of all of her greatest secrets: word choices, figures of speech.” [38:49]
• On Taylor’s Playful Ambiguity
  • Toni: “No, she has never used the word lovely to denote something genuine. She’s never, ever done that.” [36:08]
• Storytelling Advice
  • Joe: “The most important word in storytelling? The word ‘but.’” [37:53]
• On Appreciating Swift
  • Toni: “I think to appreciate Taylor, you have to appreciate words.” [42:33]
• Word Play & Irony
  • Joe: “You give it different meaning because you mean it when you talk. Right. So this is the whole theme.” [14:01]

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Important Timestamps

• 00:46 — The unusual choice to open with the chorus and immediate foreshadowing
• 01:57 — Interweaving of Swift’s earlier works (Grease, Reputation) with "Honey"
• 04:07 — Discussion of “honey” as an insult or a sincerely loving word
• 10:11 — Decoding color symbolism and song self-references
• 14:01 — Revealing the song as a storytelling "legend" for the album
• 17:31 — The “forever nightstand” pun and sexual double entendre debate
• 28:00 — Bridge/arrangement break: contrasting passive-aggression with genuine affection
• 32:48 — Deep dive on the word “lovely” through Swift’s discography
• 37:52 — Explanation of why “but” is the “most important word in storytelling"
• 41:04 — Praise for the bop’s lo-fi instrumentation and atmosphere

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Tone & Language

The episode is witty, intellectual, bouncy, and playfully irreverent—reflecting both hosts’ love of words, humor, and pop literacy. Joe lectures gently with the warmth of a parent and professor; Toni mixes sharp insights with self-deprecating jokes and digressions, making the analysis accessible.

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Conclusion & Takeaways

• “Honey” serves as a microcosmic lesson in Swift’s craft, revealing how she imbues even simple words with multiple meanings, historical baggage, and emotional resonance.
• The song celebrates the power of genuine love to reclaim “contaminated” words and make them sweet again.
• Listeners are encouraged to appreciate the richness of figurative language and to bring similar twists, ambiguity, and depth to their own communication.
• The hosts tease future episodes decoding every song in the ERAS Tour, inviting word lovers and Swifties alike to join the community, practice their own analysis, and share with friends.

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This episode will leave you thinking about the power of language—not just in Taylor Swift’s songs, but in all the stories you tell and consume. It’s a can’t-miss for writers, Swift fans, and anyone interested in the secrets of viral, impactful storytelling.

Transcript

[A]

Hi. This is Decoding Taylor Swift, where we dig into the deeper meaning of the life of a showgirl. One song each week. Today we will transform how you think about Honey with the help of my swifty father, a storytelling expert recognized by Rolling Stone magazine.

[B]

I'm Joe Rome and my daughter Antonia is great at decoding lyrics, writing, and making people laugh.

[A]

Ugh. You're too kind.

[B]

And Taylor Swift is a modern day Shakespeare. But Honey isn't just a love letter to Travis. It's a mind blowing love letter to words themselves. So be sure to stay to the end since this song reveals Taylor's most essential storytelling secrets. Wow.

[A]

Most essential storytelling secrets.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, let's just get into it.

[B]

Yes, let's get right into it. So you can call me honey if you want Because I'm the one you want. Now, this opening is unusual for many reasons. First of all, it's the chorus.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Yes. Most of her songs are not opening with choruses. Maybe one or two lines, but. Yeah, this.

[B]

So she's opening with the chorus, and I think she's doing it for a reason.

[A]

Sure. As she does.

[B]

As she does. She is using the word want in two different ways.

[A]

She is.

[B]

Right. Which she sometimes does. Which is a figure of speech when you do that. And of course, this song that foreshadows what this whole song is about, which is that words.

[A]

Oh, my God. Have two meanings.

[B]

Have two meanings depending on how you use them or who uses them. So this is classic foreshadow from Taylor. Now there's more going on here. I had a little extra time to dive into this.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

So where does the title of this song come from? Well, I think it comes from a mashup.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Of the song she did in Reputation, which is. Call it what you want.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

Which is some people consider to be sort of a good thematic description of what Reputation is about. But interestingly, the other reason I think that this is what she is referring to is because the opening lyric of that song is, my castle crumbled overnight. I brought a knife to a gunfight.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And in the song we just did, it's.

[A]

I brought a tiny. You bring a tiny violin to a knife fight.

[B]

So she understands you better go to your knife fight or your gunfight appropriately armed. But the point is, yes, she has been thinking about that song. But again, I think all of her songs are deeply embedded in her head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. And we'll see.

[A]

Even, like, subconsciously, I think that's how that works. Once you write something, it stays with you even if you don't remember it.

[B]

Yeah. And so sometimes, yes, she does things consciously. We're going to see a lot of references to other songs in this song. Now the other thing that this seems to hit, so that's you can call me honey if you want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because I'm the one you want.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Now there's a very famous song from Greece, you're the one that I want. Right. And it's not just you're the one that I want, it's you're the one that I want. Ooh, ooh, ooh, honey the one that I want. Ooh, ooh, ooh, honey the one that I want.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And not only that, but if you look into it, Taylor played Sandy in a school play in the year 2000.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And she also sang along to Greece live in 2016.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

With Bella Hadid, I think.

[A]

Oh, cool.

[B]

So, yes, she is all about Grease. And you know, this is the flip around of you're the one that I want is, you know, I'm the one that you want.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

So she's combined the lyrics of two songs that she is very familiar to make this very clever piece of foreshadow.

[A]

Yes, that is true.

[B]

Okay. When anyone called me sweetheart, it was passive aggressive at the bar. And the bitch.

[A]

I don't know if you can say that.

[B]

I know I had written in the cleaned up version, it's chick.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But I think it the. She wrote.

[A]

I feel like curse words are usually there for reasons.

[B]

She wrote bitch. And let's be clear, she has referred to bitch in this album. Right. In fact, she has referred to it in Eldest daughter. Yeah, I'm not a bad bitch. And of course, in the next song, the final song of the album of. And all the headshots on the walls of the dance hall are of the bitches who wish I'd hurried up and die.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So again, yes, she is using that word on purpose. We shouldn't just, you know, water it down. And the bitch was telling me to back off because her man had looked at me wrong. So the point is. Used to be honey. Used to be honey was not a word she liked. She had it associated with something bad. And interestingly, when people said, well, where did this idea for this song came from? Apparently Kylie Kelsey. Yeah. Jason's wife and a podcast.

[A]

Oh. She said, yeah. There's certain nicknames. Sweetie, baby, babe, hun. Honey, you can only be called those things by like a waitress and a diner in South Philly. And otherwise in Philadelphia takes on this sort of like, okay, hun, like, almost, bless your heart. Like, sharp. Like it feels aggressive, which I think is true. And I think while I was singing about this song, it's very interesting because I think that often it's more feminine words, more of those kind of softer words like sweetie, honey, hun, that take on more negative meaning. Like you don't see dude, bro, or something like that. You can use them like that. But usually it comes off as more just aggressive. Right. It's pretty clear what you mean. But sometimes with honey, or bless your heart, sometimes, stuff like that, it can. It can come off as. As, you know, more passive aggressive.

[B]

And then, of course, the next example, it follows up on exactly what you said. If anyone called me honey, it was standing in the bathroom, white teeth.

[A]

Which means they were smiling is what I took that to mean.

[B]

Or they were baring their teeth like a. Like animals do when they're angry.

[A]

Right? Well, I don't think. I think it's. I think it's a kind of a play on that. Right. It could be apes when they smile or gorillas. I think gorillas when they smile. They, they. That's like a sign of aggression. Yeah, but here, white teeth. It's just that they're smiling while they're saying it. Like, honey, that skirt doesn't fit you. I think that's more.

[B]

Well, they could be.

[A]

I don't. Who's baring their teeth while they're saying that that skirt doesn't fit you?

[B]

Well, you may be onto something there.

[A]

That skirt doesn't fit you. Like, that's a little crazy.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But it's okay because he doesn't understand that because he has never worn a skirt in his life, even though I keep telling him he should.

[B]

It's true. Well, I was thinking of wearing a kilt.

[A]

Such a shirt.

[B]

Such a shame.

[A]

Well, it's a shame that we're not Irish. Do you know, when I was a kid, I used to be like, damn, I really wish I were Irish or Scottish. Well, I really. I wanted to be Irish really badly. For some reason, I just. Or Scot. I mean, to be fair. Yes. Like, I wanted to be. I just. I don't know. I've always wanted an excuse to go to Scotland and see my crazy Scottish family. And they're speaking their fun little accents.

[B]

I've been to Ireland. That's where I gave.

[A]

Yes, yes, you went to Limerick, right?

[B]

I went to Tralee. Tralee.

[A]

But you flew into the Limerick airport.

[B]

I flew into an airport nearby Limerick.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And Kilcarny was in the same place as was Cork. That was where I gave my Cork.

[A]

They have their fun little names. Ugh. I love Ireland. Ireland calls me. Ireland calls me.

[B]

We will go sometime. We'll go back because got a lot of Taylor Swift. I did a TEDx talk there, which was on the storytelling secrets of Shakespeare and Taylor Swift. Swift. Which is one of the reason Origins ideas for this podcast.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

And yes, the Irish people love storytelling.

[A]

The Irish people are an origin for the podcast. Frankly, I have such respect for the Irish. Irish people. They're so cool. Anyway, so anyway, if you're an Irish fan, you know, hit us up, please.

[B]

They were saying, that skirt don't fit me. And I cried the whole way home. Now, Taylor notoriously cries the whole way home a lot.

[A]

Yeah. Like in Cruel Summer. Famously.

[B]

But not just Cruel Summer. I was crying like Dear John. The girl in the dress cried the whole way home.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

So she's a very emotional person.

[A]

Right. Well, she cries coming back from a bar. Specifically.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

In Cruel Summer. Right. And also, if you hear a clicking sound, you know, that's my new little fidget toy that my father profiled my brain and got.

[B]

I did. This was a holiday. This was a Christmas Hanukkah present. Yes.

[A]

Thank you for Christmas Hanukkah presents.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

They're supposedly supposed to be eight presents. And he got me this and. But that's. Okay.

[B]

Well, but that can be made.

[A]

This can be made into 70 shapes. 70 fun little shapes to keep your crazy brain mesmerized. If you have adhd. So not to plug this, whatever this is. I'm not. I'm not even plugging it because I don't even know the brand name. But if you get this fun little thing, it can make a lot of silly little shapes. You can jingle jangle it in front of your eyes. Jingle jangle. And then it distracts you.

[B]

Man, we're pitching for sponsors here.

[A]

Yeah, I know.

[B]

Hey, we will sponsor.

[A]

Could happen soon.

[B]

Any. If you.

[A]

If you have a great fidget and you send it to me and I like it, and it keeps me mesmerized. I will. I will.

[B]

Personally, this is the one that I bought for myself that she also borrows all the time, which is.

[A]

Look at this. You just kind of move it, which.

[B]

Is the two rolling cylinders, but you can also rub it on your hands.

[A]

I know. Well, Taylor Swift. What's great about Taylor Swift is that she has her guitar to play with. I Don't know how to play guitar. Ugh. It's so freaking annoying.

[B]

I think, first of all, the guitar, which she.

[A]

I play the piano.

[B]

Taught herself.

[A]

I've lost some of it.

[B]

Well, I think. I think the guitar is a great thing because singers often. Otherwise, what do you do with your hands if you're not holding the mic?

[A]

I know you like. My mom is like, don't bite your teeth on the podcast. What else am I supposed to do? I don't have a guitar. I don't have a guitar. You know what I'm saying? I can't be whimsical like that.

[B]

Well, let's go on, but. Let's go on, but you touch my face Redefine all of those blues when you say honey. Summertime Spritz, Pink Sky.

[A]

Right. Both. Summertime Spritz, specifically, was one of the vinyls that she released just so.

[B]

Yes. And Pink Skies, of course, would be your reference to Invisible String Time. Wondrous time gave me the blues. Then purple pink skies.

[A]

I love Invisible String.

[B]

Oh, and someone else pointed out that Pink Skies and the purple, Pink skies are similar to the album Color for Lover.

[A]

Yes, that is true.

[B]

Right?

[A]

That is true.

[B]

So Taylor's big on colors. She writes. Sings whole songs.

[C]

Colors.

[A]

I wrote my whole Great Gatsby essay on color theater.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Taylor is very big into colors. Right. She has red, which, you know, we've discussed, which goes into all the different colors, and she often uses colors to try to symbolize different emotions.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

That's, in fact, the whole point of red. But here she's doing a. The next bit. You can call me honey if you want, because I'm the one you want. That's the chorus.

[A]

And then Wintergreen kiss.

[B]

All mine.

[A]

I know. Wintergreen. Famous gum Flamer Flav.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Well, famous gum flavor.

[B]

Yeah. And of course, summertime versus Wintergreen.

[A]

Yeah, right. That's so true.

[B]

So again, this is. She's doing her antithesis, and they say.

[A]

Opposites attract, so she's comparing kind of Kelsey to the Wintergreen, it seems.

[B]

Right. And of course, all Mine is another song reference. You could say.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

The song Mine, which we have talked about.

[A]

That is true.

[B]

And did we talk about mine? We. We talked about it in the.

[A]

In tortured poets department. Because. Yeah. Or.

[B]

Well, no, we talked about it in the context of all too well.

[A]

Right, right, right, right, right, right. But I was thinking of Guilty of Sin. How they. They talk about mine. Like the fact that the 1975 also has a song Called mine fun fact. And they both do. Oh, Matty Healy, what if I told.

[C]

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[B]

Matty Healy. So here you get to. She just states the theme. You give it different meaning because you mean it when you talk. Right. So this is the whole theme. And, and the point of really the album we. We've had. We've gone through all of these songs.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And even the ones that seem kind of simple on the surface.

[A]

Right.

[B]

All of them. The word. So many words have a second meaning. I mean, obviously would. The whole point of. Of would. Right. Is the double entendres.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. For all those who speak the wrong language. Just we see you.

[B]

But the point is. Yes. If you're trying to understand Taylor's songs, you should not assume that the literal surface meaning is the only meaning.

[A]

And you shouldn't assume that that's what she thinks.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you should not say, oh, Taylor thinks that. Right. She doesn't think that she is going to have. She's going to live on a block with having the two kids and there's going to be a lot of other families around. No, not really. That's not. That's just a fantasy. And so, yeah, this. This, you know, in some sense, this is really kind of a key or a legend to the whole album. Right. This is about as specific.

[C]

Right.

[B]

She has ever been in saying, guess what, people? Words have different meanings.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In different circumstances. And that's what I'm entirely about. This is who I am. I am going to write a whole bunch of songs that take advantage of this fact. And that's what figurative language is about. Like metaphors and irony. Right. A whole point of irony.

[A]

Right. I mean, this is like a love letter to metaphor and to all the figures of speech. They talk. I mean, she really, seriously, she's using imagery, you know, Summertime spritz, Pink skies, Winter green kiss.

[B]

And she's using her antithesis, which we talked about when we were talking about blank space. Darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream. Which is metaphors and hyperbole and antithesis.

[A]

She doesn't use much metaphor, but I guess imagery is a type of. Is a sort of metaphor. What would you say about that?

[B]

It depends. Yeah. I mean, when she's using colors. Right. These are visual metaphors.

[C]

Right.

[B]

That's. What's the whole point of the song. Red.

[A]

Right. That is true. She says. Yeah, right. Redefine all those blues. Right, right, right, right, right. What do you say? Because she says pink skies. Right, right, right.

[B]

So. So the point is. Yes. You can redefine a color.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you can redefine the words.

[A]

That's true. And.

[B]

And you can redefine, as we saw in Father Figure having a bridge.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That changes the key.

[A]

Oh, my God, I love singers do that. There's so many good examples.

[B]

So she. That the keys to the kingdom were being changed.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or.

[A]

Well, and there's a whole. There's a whole, like, deep dive, rabbit hole you can go into of songs that do that. When somebody says the word high and then they. They go higher.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Low, low, low. Yeah. Drop it. Yeah, she took it. Next thing you know, Shani got low, low, low, low.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, that's a good example. It's fun.

[B]

And so you give it different meaning because you mean it when you talk.

[A]

Right. Using two different meanings.

[B]

Right. Now she's gonna dive into a bunch of double meaning, some double entendres and other things. Honey, I'm home. Of course. Which is this famous kind of 50s.

[A]

Honey, I'm home.

[B]

Honey, I'm home. Which was also flipped on its head, famously, in the movie.

[A]

The hell he's talking about. I watch TV shows, man.

[B]

Kubrick's classic horror movie.

[A]

I've never seen Stanley Kubrick movies.

[B]

Yes, you've seen one.

[A]

What.

[B]

What's the horror movie that takes place in the remote lodge?

[A]

I've. I've never seen it.

[B]

You have seen it.

[A]

No, I haven't.

[B]

Because when I dropped the name of it.

[A]

Why? Is it the Conjuring?

[B]

No, it's the one with Jack Nicholson.

[A]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

[B]

It's the disturbing one.

[A]

I've.

[B]

What's the most disturbing? Stephen King.

[A]

It. Or. If you say the Shining, I swear to God it's the Shining. It's not. The Shining is not disturbing. The Shining is, like, not scary. The book is creepy, but the. The movie is like.

[B]

For some of us, the Shining was very disturbing. Yes, but all I'm saying is Jack.

[A]

Nichols to death by aliens.

[B]

Jack Nicholson famously subverts Honey, I'm home.

[A]

I don't know any of these old people that you talk about. You say their names like they're supposed to mean something to me. Stanley Kubrick, like, yes, he's a director, but I could.

[B]

If he directed 2001 A Space Odyssey.

[A]

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

He directed the Shining. A movie you love, right?

[A]

I don't love the Shining.

[B]

Oh, you don't love the Shining.

[A]

It's fine. Oh, I thought you. I like Stephen King's books, but I don't think that some of these movies do them justice. I mean, I think the Shining is a good movie. I just don't think it's scary. The twins were a little creepy. That's because Stephen King knows how to scare people.

[B]

I see.

[A]

Yeah. I love Stephen King. Big fan of his writing. Anyway, I was watching welcome to Derry. You guys should all watch welcome to Derry. It's really good if you're a horror fan. If you're not a fan of horror, you're gonna be scared out of your mind. It's really scary now.

[B]

Honey, I'm home, they say is also a reference to Shania Twain's honey, I'm home.

[A]

Yeah, well, it's also. She's saying it right. Usually it's the guy who comes home and says it right.

[B]

She's saying, right. And then we get to. We can play house. We can bed down, pick me up. Which, of course, can be quite interpreted literally or in a kind of dirty fashion.

[A]

I don't know. If it can. Because. Because they're just setting the bed up in their home. I don't think that's dirty at all.

[B]

No. And if he picks her up.

[A]

Yeah, like from school, like, or from, like work or something.

[B]

Yeah, something like that. That's. That's a possibility.

[A]

Yeah, I think it's.

[B]

Let's go on. Who's the baddest in the land? What's the plan? What's the plan? Now she's already said. So she's calling themselves the baddest in the land.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But we know she's previously said, I'm not a bad bitch.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

So just flipping it just a reference earlier. If she's bad, she's not a bad bitch. She's just bad.

[C]

Right.

[A]

And then you could be my forever night stand, which is just, you know, one night stands and then they leave in the morning.

[B]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. But what's a one night stand? My daughter.

[A]

I don't know. The stand by Stephen King mentioned.

[B]

No, I'm just saying it's. It's a sexual reference.

[A]

No, it's not. It's where you stand together in a room for an entire night and then like the person is like, all right, fuck, I'm done, man. And then they leave. I don't know what you're talking about.

[B]

If only that were true.

[A]

I really. You and your. Well, isn't it just. You stand together in a room.

[B]

Yes, yes.

[A]

For like a night or something. And you just kind of stand there and some people. Well, people get bored and that's why they leave. That's why it's called a one night stand. Because if you stand for so long, then you get uncomfortable and you're like.

[B]

Damn, I want to leave back to. To Hamilton. If you stand for. If you stand for nothing, what will you fall for?

[A]

Well, it's not what, it's when. It's when. And it's usually like after 12 hours. Like, that's a long time to be standing in a room.

[B]

I love your. Your non sexual theory here, except it has one flaw. You could be my. You could be my forever nightstander.

[A]

Because you have to love somebody a lot to stand for that long.

[B]

To stand forever.

[A]

Pots. I get dizzy if I stand for too long. So it's like I would never. Like, I'd have to really love somebody to do. To do a forever nightstand. You know, like, one night stands are a lot for me. And so that's like a forever night stand is like all. Like, I would have to love somebody to do that.

[B]

I think we're running this into the ground.

[A]

No, we're not.

[B]

I think this.

[A]

Anyway, so is that genuinely like, not what it is?

[B]

No, it is a forever night stand. It's, it's. It's her statement that she wants. She doesn't want a one night stand with this guy. She wants a forever night stand.

[A]

I'm saying, is there like something that, that a one night stand like, it's. And it's not just them standing in a room.

[B]

Yes, there is.

[A]

That's crazy to me.

[B]

It's. It's. When two people don't love each other so much.

[A]

Sweetheart, it was passive aggressive at the bar and the bitch was. And then they, they go on and. Yeah, and then the, the way that she repeats the chorus. Usually they. She does two choruses, but then. Or she'll. She'll do three, but she does verse, chorus. So first chorus, bridge, and then another chorus.

[B]

There's not really a bridge in this song. People have noted.

[A]

Well, it's. It's okay. I would say that the, the post chorus is. But you touch my face. Redefine all of the blues you give. You can call me honey if you want, because I'm the one you want. And then the second verse is. You give it different. Yada, yada. Sweetie, it's yours. Kicking indoors. Take me to the floor, give me more. Buy the paint and the color of your eyes, which is by and then by. There's by and then B U, Y.

[B]

Right, but let's back up a little bit.

[A]

Well, anyway, I would say that the reason that you know that when anyone called me Late night is a bridge is because the entire, like, the musical arrangement changes. It gets like softer. It's just the piano, but it's not.

[B]

That much different from the previous. Right?

[A]

Yeah, but it's a bridge.

[B]

Well, it's, it's. It's a pseudo bridge, let's call it.

[A]

No, it's a bridge. It's a bridge.

[B]

But anyway, you could. But you touch my face. Redefine all those blues. So here we get again. Literally, she is redefining things. Right? That's what she's talking about when you say.

[A]

And we. She repeats this. So, sweetie, it's yours. Right, Right.

[B]

And then you give it different meaning because you mean it when you talk. Right? Sweetie, it's your kicking indoors.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Take it to the floor.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Also, in a certain universe. Another dirty line.

[A]

Well, once you're done with standing, you usually will probably sit down on the floor or something.

[B]

Yes. And sometimes you're naked with your significant other.

[A]

Yeah, only if you've, like, I don't know, gotten really warm because climate change is getting pretty bad.

[B]

And that's why you kick indoors, because you really want to get inside to do something.

[A]

Well, I was thinking. I was actually thinking of that line as something like, you know, when one door closes, another door opens, and, you know, Travis Kelce's just kicking in a bunch of doors. So, you know, anything's possible with him.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

That's what I was thinking. Kicking in doors also is kind of like a police officer thing.

[B]

Well, the other.

[A]

Or FBI.

[B]

The other floor is what you do. Floor it.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

The line from But Daddy, I love him.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Right. Where she says floor it.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which means put the pedal to the metal. Because we do know she likes the fast cars.

[A]

Yeah, she likes fast cars.

[B]

She likes.

[A]

That's why she says, give me more. You know, she likes going fast.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

And then by the paint of the color in your eyes, I mean, it's written as B U Y, which is like, you purchase the paint and the color of your eyes, but you can also hear it, since songs are often like that. By the paint of the color in your eyes, like by the pricking of my thumb. Something like this way comes like that type of situation.

[B]

You could. Very nice.

[A]

That's what I assumed it at first. And then I looked at the lyrics. That was, like, interesting.

[B]

Well, she does a lot of those verbal puns. We don't even know how much Shakespeare did those. A lot.

[A]

Was it really very nice?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Thank you, Jo. I appreciate that. Well, anyway, can we get a thumbs.

[C]

Up out of that?

[A]

Thumbs up? Thumbs up. Thumbs up.

[B]

It didn't work.

[A]

Can the freaking NSA lock in? We figured out that it's because, like, you give a thumbs up, but I told you, I've been doing these for the past few episodes whenever it comes up, and it just has not been working.

[B]

We don't understand.

[A]

It's like the FBI agent that's watching us has to give the thumbs up.

[B]

According to, like, AI. This is a combination of how Riverside works and how Apple.

[A]

Yes, he's using AI. I know.

[B]

Yes, but maybe the AI was wrong here.

[A]

Yes, well, you know, it could be.

[B]

I'm not a big fan.

[A]

Yes, me neither.

[B]

As we've said. And.

[A]

You'Re feeding my whole damn life, honey.

[B]

Right, so. So this is. Again, she is doing a lot of visual metaphors here.

[A]

Well, he wants. She paints like Travis. Kelsey is kind of this maybe free spirit kind of. You know, graffiti is not Right. It's not like. I don't know. I mean, she argued the word paint, but she could have said, like, pastel my whole damn life, or like, color of my whole damn life or something. Well, she already used color. Well, I agree that this is. Yeah. Well, kicking down doors, graffiti. Like, he's. He's a vagrant, it seems, you know.

[B]

Well, he is a wild guy.

[A]

He's a wild guy.

[B]

We do know from his interactions with his coach and what he does on the field.

[A]

Well, he's a football player.

[B]

Right. And, you know, so kicking indoors. Take it to the floor. Give me more. Right. Graffiti my old house. These are things that are quite wild and fun.

[A]

They are wild and fun.

[B]

And as an aside. As an aside, the season did not go that well for the Kansas City Chiefs.

[A]

No, they did not.

[B]

And there's some talk as to whether. Is this going to be Travis's last season.

[A]

Well, he's probably going to want to end on a high note, I feel like.

[B]

Well, you can't. I mean, we'd all like to end on a high note, but, I mean.

[A]

I think he's probably going to play next season, too.

[B]

Well, I think also a lot of it. Presumably, Mahomes will be back. Like, he's got a pretty serious injury, but he will be.

[A]

I know Patrick. My mom loves Patrick Mahomes. It's really concerning.

[B]

Yeah, I didn't know that.

[A]

Did you not? I was obsessed with him. It's really alarming. She's like, mom, Patrick, Patrick.

[B]

Well, he sounds like he is, you know, one of the great quarterbacks of all time. No one can deny that.

[A]

I know.

[B]

And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So let's keep going.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So now we got. When anyone. This is a whole new thing.

[A]

Yeah. Which is why it's a bridge, because it breaks the pattern of going to a chorus that they've established. When anyone called me late night he was screwing around with my mind Asking, what are you wearing? Too high to remember in the morning but when anyone called me lovely they were finding ways not to praise me or. And when anyone called me lovely they were finding ways not to praise me. But you say it like you're in awe of me and you stay until the morning, honey. That's beautiful, you guys. Wow. And you stand till the morning is also a reference to, you know, another song, which is the smallest man who ever lived, which is like. But you were gone before morning.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, that. You had that down.

[B]

I did.

[A]

I'm just that cool. I just remember.

[B]

And this woman. There's a. There's a website, Swiftly sung songs, which I do recommend to people. There's a woman named Jen. She doesn't give her. She's an English teacher and she does some literary analysis of songs. And she was pointing out that you stay until the morning answers one of Taylor's longest running questions. Who could ever leave me darling? But who could stay?

[A]

Yeah, Travis Kelsey stayed.

[B]

So Travis Kelsey stayed.

[A]

I have a question, though. When everyone called me late night, he was screwing around with my mind. So here's the thing. Like this theme is about calling people words like calling you lovely, honey. But why do they. Why does she suddenly jump into when anyone called me late night? Right. That seems unrelated.

[B]

Well, she's saying here this guy's toying with her, right. When. When a guy.

[A]

Right. But that doesn't calls up. That doesn't have anything to do with like calling somebody honey or lovely. Does that make sense?

[B]

No, but I think what she's saying here is. Well, first of all, she wants to make a point to. Through to the. You stay until the morning honey. She wants to do the whole thing. But I think the point is if a guy calls up a girl on the phone doesn't have to be a guy. And a girl could be any.

[A]

Any combination.

[B]

Anybody says, what are you wearing?

[A]

Or they could be agender. Sure.

[B]

What are you wearing? Is. Is usually meant as initiating some sexual talk.

[A]

I don't know what that means.

[B]

It means the person.

[A]

Well, they want to make sure that somebody is comfortable before they come into a room and stand for 12 hours with them. Like you don't want to be naked if you're standing in a room for 12 hours, especially not during the winter. So seems to me like it's pretty clear that he's just being a kind and considerate person.

[B]

Well, that's. That's one theory. Except this particular guy was toying with her because he was high on drugs.

[A]

Oh, he was high on drugs.

[B]

He was high on those drugs. And as a result of drugs. No, but he says too high to remember in the morning.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So that's the point is he doesn't even remember that he called up to flirt with her later on.

[A]

You sound like a narc. You sound like a narcotics officer. Because he was high on drugs. Well, crazy. You're so funny.

[B]

True story.

[A]

He's never done drugs.

[B]

I have not. And the reason why, and this is the amazing thing, because I grew up in a small town in New York State. 20,000 people.

[A]

20,000 people.

[B]

Just so happened that our next door neighbor was the doctor for Bob Dylan.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

And he filled my mother with all these stories of what happened to Dylan on drugs. They may or may not have been exaggerations or whatever. Doesn't matter. This is simply what my mother came away with, that drugs were really bad. And she would fill my head and all of my brother's heads with these stories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And since we're just mentioning Dylan and my next door neighbor.

[A]

Yeah. What's up?

[B]

True story. If you Google it.

[A]

You have a little something here. Yeah, you got it.

[B]

In the mid-60s, Dylan had a motorcycle accident, Right. And he disappeared for a few months. He was living next door to us with his doctor. I didn't know that. But my mother did in fact, meet Bob Dylan.

[A]

So you did not tell me that. Yes. Oh, wait, you have.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's so crazy.

[B]

It is crazy.

[A]

Oh, man.

[B]

Yes. So small world. That it is.

[A]

When you're on drugs, I think it's easier to stand in a room for a while.

[B]

No. I think it's incredibly hard if you're on drugs to stand for. No.

[A]

Because your mind's wandering. You're talking. He doesn't understand my theory. And I'm telling you guys, this goes all the way to the top.

[C]

If.

[A]

You'Re lesbian or gay. Anyway.

[B]

Oh, the other. The other word, however, is the other word I underlined there, which is lovely. Yes.

[A]

Which is lovely because of actually romantic. Right? Is that what you're gonna say?

[B]

It's honestly lovely. All the effort you put in, which is a similar instance of using lovely in a snarky time way.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But guess what else.

[A]

What?

[B]

This album sets the rec. She doesn't use lovely a lot, Right.

[C]

She.

[B]

Two thirds of all the lovelies she uses are on this album. Because in the next song, Right. Thank you for the lovely bouquet. Which she repeats seven times. Right? So she's not just dropping the word lovely here again for no reason. Lovely is on this album, a very.

[A]

Very big, big deal.

[B]

Right? So these. This is illusions. Right?

[A]

Right. And she's saying that every time she uses the word lovely, it's always going to be in a passive aggressive way on the album.

[B]

Well, and indeed, thank you for the.

[A]

Thank you for the lovely bouquet.

[B]

Thank you for the love bouquet. But guess what? You don't know anything.

[A]

You don't know shit, dumb bitch.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's what she's saying.

[B]

I was just saying this song is a love letter to all sorts of words and how you use them and their double meanings and how she uses them entire.

[A]

You could even say it's a lovely letter.

[B]

It's a lovely love letter.

[A]

If you wanted to say that you could.

[B]

And yes, so. And then she goes, wait, hold on.

[A]

Yeah, they were finding ways not to prison me, but you say it like you're in awe of me. Something interesting about the word awe. Is that, like, mo much like terrify. It is. It has two noun kind of adjectives, like awful and awesome. And so I don't know, I just thought it was interesting that you. She used the word awe. Nobody ever says, like, I was in awe of it anymore. Like in songs. Very Taylor Swift thing to do. But yeah.

[C]

Aww.

[A]

One of my friends told me that when they were learning English, they got confused by awful and awesome and they would say, oh, that's awful. Wow. Like, when she told me that when somebody told them they failed a test, she was like, wow, that's awesome. I'm so sorry. It was very funny. And same with terrify. Terrific and terrifying. Terrific and terrifying. Confuse people too.

[B]

And I just checked. This is the only time Taylor uses the word awe. I knew it. In all of her songs.

[A]

Aw is very, very weird word.

[B]

It is a very weird word.

[A]

It's a bizarre word.

[B]

I will also say that you will.

[A]

Aww.

[B]

So say the other uses of the word lovely are also interesting.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, it seems that I was uninvited by your lovely bride to be in Speak now. Right, Disgusting.

[B]

Now the next one. Very famous.

[A]

A never needy ever lovely jewel whose shine reflects on you from all too well.

[B]

That's the idea you had of me, right?

[A]

No, Every single time she.

[B]

But then the next one. But then the next one is the best.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

She would have made such a lovely bride.

[A]

What a shame. She's fucking in the head.

[B]

I know, Right, So she likes the word lovely, but she likes to use it herself.

[A]

She does.

[B]

In a pretty.

[A]

She's never used the word lovely to denote something genuine. She's never ever done that.

[B]

That is.

[A]

No, literally. We're looking on Taylor, we've looked at.

[B]

All 12 uses, of which nine are in this album and are in this.

[A]

Album, and none of them, among any.

[B]

Not a single one, she used the word lovely.

[A]

Never, ever. No, she is. She's Hate that.

[B]

No, she is not. Does not think lovely thoughts about the word lovely.

[A]

No, she does not.

[B]

And so now we're running.

[A]

We come back to the chorus.

[B]

To the chorus, right, which is.

[A]

Yes. When anyone called me sweetheart, it was passive aggressive. At the barn, the chick was telling me to back off because Amanda looked at me wrong. If anyone called me Honey, it was standing in the bathroom, white teeth. They were saying, that skirt don't fit me. And I cried the whole way home and then. But you can call me honey if you want.

[B]

Right. So that's the other unusual thing about this song.

[A]

Right. It has kind of that outro line is.

[B]

The outro line is the same as the intro line.

[A]

Yes, but only the first part.

[B]

But only the first part. Right. In. In red.

[A]

It's the same, right?

[B]

Right? Yeah, almost the same.

[A]

Yeah. Was driving a new Maserati down a dead end street. Is that what it is?

[B]

Right. But as we discussed, she does switch the words at the end in the.

[A]

Final line, she says was instead of is. Right? Is that what it is?

[B]

No, she says, oops.

[A]

You have to. Yeah. Okay. There we go. You know, you can actually just press the plus button. You don't have to do that.

[B]

I didn't know I could do that. The opening line is. Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street. But the closing line is.

[A]

Yeah, I told you. It was like.

[B]

Was his love. That's the point that we talked about. Loving him was like.

[A]

But it turns out that his. It's his fault.

[B]

It's his love that is driving down the dead end street, not her loving him.

[A]

But the was and is is a very important point too.

[B]

Right. But the point is she is really careful.

[C]

Very, very.

[B]

And the opening closing lines matter. They matter a lot. And by the way, she is closing with one of our favorite words, the most important word in all of storytelling. The word but. But. You can call me honey if you want. And this is a song with four buts.

[A]

Five and five. And making that ratio 80%. 80%. Pretty damn good.

[B]

And as we discussed in episode five, episode five on But Daddy, I love him. The word but. Good storytelling has fewer ands, but more buts. But more buts. Because people like the twists and the turns and the tensions that are caused by the word but and the word and I did this. And I did this. And I did this. It's just boring.

[A]

Okay. Yeah.

[B]

So this song, which is a love letter, two words, is also a compendium.

[A]

Oh, wow, That's a nice word.

[B]

Compendium.

[A]

Compendium. I like compendium.

[B]

Wow. I have.

[A]

I have the other Today. Yesterday. Last night, my friend was talking and they used the word proselytize. And I was like, damn, that slapped. That was really good. I know. Shout out, my friend. You know who you are. They're not gonna watch it. It was beautiful. I Guess that's just people in my college. I know everybody in my school uses words correctly, and it makes me very happy. Except some of these idiot men. Some of them are still, like, not getting it. People who are bizcon majors, they use words like morals and ethics wrong. Because they don't have any. So therefore they don't know.

[B]

But just to get back to. This song is a compendium of all of her greatest secrets. Word choices, you know, figures of speech.

[A]

I mean, other than all too well.

[B]

No, I'm not saying it's the greatest of them.

[A]

Champagne problems, I would say is probably a. I mean, we're gonna. We have to talk about champagne problems.

[B]

Well, champagne problems. We will be talking.

[A]

We will be talking about next season.

[B]

Because that's in the ERAS tour. I want to announce one thing here, which is we've sort of decided when we finish.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Life of a Showgirl. We are going to launch into a year long. We're gonna go through every song in the ERAS tour.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And decode them. And if we've already done it, we will add some stuff on top. We'll decide if we can do a new episode or just put in and update the old episode. And ERIS tour is going to allow us to cover a whole lot of her great greatest songs.

[A]

Willow is one of my favorites.

[B]

We're very excited about.

[A]

We should cover the arrangements too. I just love the arrangement they did for Willow and.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, anyway, I just wanted to say that. I just want to say that. I guess.

[B]

Absolutely. And.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So this song which she calls a bop in the intro.

[A]

I think this song is pretty catchy. And the more I listen to it, the more I like it. It's like low key, but it's really chill. And I. I just like, love the. The. The instrumental, especially to this. It's very calming. It's very lo fi and it's. It's sweet. It's lovely.

[B]

Well, I think that I like the.

[A]

Little piano and then I like the. The kind of the horn that they have. The little. The little. You know, during the. Right. Between and Graffiti my whole damn life. Honey or. No, I think it's between because you mean it when you talk and sweetie, it's yours. But yeah, it's. It's quite nice. But she's looking up whether she's used Fearless in. Or Graffiti in any other songs.

[B]

And she hasn't experienced just in Fearless itself. Yeah, you all over me. Excuse me. You find graffiti from the walls of old bathroom stalls Not a word she uses a Lot.

[A]

No, it's not a very common word. It's in fact an Italian word, graffiti. So we did that. You're welcome.

[B]

You know, I think that.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think, Joe? What do you think?

[B]

This is the penultimate song.

[A]

It's a penultimate song. Another good word.

[B]

This is the penultimate song in the album.

[A]

Penultimate. Do you think that the word compendium and penultimate have the. The same pen root?

[B]

I don't know. Penultimate means like penumbra.

[A]

Right. Which is.

[B]

Comes before.

[A]

Comes before.

[B]

Right. It comes before, yeah.

[A]

Pen. Yeah, I think compen. I don't know. Probably not.

[B]

No, I don't think so.

[A]

I don't know. It was just a theory, a game. We appreciate a song theory.

[B]

We appreciate how much Taylor appreciates words.

[A]

We do appreciate that. I appreciate words.

[B]

And I think again that we both here appreciate words.

[A]

I think. I think. I think to appreciate Taylor, you have to appreciate words.

[B]

And I also think that to.

[A]

Be or not to be, that is the question.

[B]

Yeah, no, I think that to not. And by the way, I saw Hamnet, the movie speaking of to be or not to be. And I will say the following. The last 30 to 40 minutes are great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The rest of the movie is kind of so. So. And if you do love words or you do love Shakespeare or Hamlet, then it's a movie worth seeing. But. And it has Joe Alwyn in it.

[A]

It does have Joe Alwyn.

[B]

It does have Joe. How in fact, Joe Alwyn was not only in the Hamlet movie this year, he was in the Hamlet movie this year.

[A]

Oh, that's correct. Who did he play? He played like a Laert played Leah.

[B]

Hurtiz in the Hamlet movie. That was the theory offered up in our silly, silly Joel episode in which.

[A]

We talked about silly, silly baca Joel.

[B]

The fate of Ophelia, that perhaps he was offered the part when he was still going out with Taylor. So perhaps he rehearsed some of the lines and that may be what sort.

[A]

Of made her think about Hamlet or Ophelia. That's so true. Because Laertes is Ophelia's famous brother.

[B]

Brother, yes. And the one who urges him urges her to stay away from Ford Bluecruise hands free.

[A]

Highway driving takes the work out of being behind the wheel, allowing you to.

[C]

Relax and reconnect while also staying in control. Enjoy the drive in Bluecruise enabled vehicles like the F150 Explorer and Mustang Mach.

[A]

E available feature on equipped vehicles terms apply. Does not replace safe driving. See Ford.com BlueCruise for more details. Right. Hamlet, Silly Silly baka. Joe Alwyn. So a lot of evil men in her life. Scooter Braun. I mean, Joe Alwyn wasn't one of the evil ones. Really.

[B]

No. And in fact, are they on good terms? No, in fact, the, the. It's funny you mentioned that because the song call it what yout Want is about. Is a love letter to Joe Alwyn.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Because the point is she's saying her life was destroyed by the things that happened to her with, you know, Kim and Kanye. But the thing that mattered most to her was she, hey, guess what? I have this great guy to go to. And you can call what you want.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

But this is a great relationship.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, yeah, this, this song begins with a little callback to. To one relation, great relationship, and it ends or the rest of it is.

[A]

Entirely ushering in a new relationship.

[B]

And this is nice because, you know.

[A]

This is a love different than like Opalite, which is kind of saying, oh, all my bad relationships were bad. But you're good. And this one is, oh, there was a good relationship. You're another good relationship. Yay.

[B]

Well, but this is also saying you. You turned a lot of bad words into good words.

[A]

Right, Right. That's the main thing.

[B]

So she. He was in fact like an alchemist.

[A]

And that's so true. Yes, you could say that. He wrote. He rewrote the prophecy. Wow.

[B]

Well, yes, exactly. And. And now we hope. Right. Let's just be clear. They just been going together for two years.

[A]

Two years.

[B]

Right. So she was a Joe Alwyn.

[A]

Six years.

[B]

Six. Right.

[A]

And six or seven years or something.

[B]

Like that, you know. Six, seven years. Exactly. Six or seven. I am not being skeptical of their relationship.

[A]

I think they have a good, strong.

[B]

We saw, we saw. Anyone who saw the two of them interact on the podcast New Heights can clearly see that they're in love. That they're in love. And I think if you watch the six part series on the ERAS tour, you will also see how thoughtful he is to send her flowers before every show. He sends her love.

[A]

Although it's weird that her contact name for him is Travis with a bunch of hearts. Like mine would be Travy Wavy or something stupid like that. It would be Travy Wavy Havimavy or something like that. I don't know. Football. Ding Dong something.

[B]

Well, he would. He's.

[A]

Or just Ding Dong.

[B]

He's a very large guy.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

So I mean, compared to her, I mean. Right. She's tall.

[A]

That's why it's funny when you make his contact Travy wavy. I just think that's so stupid. Anyway, anyway, so we hope you liked the episode. Please remember to drop a follow like and subscribe.

[B]

Yes. And comment below. Questions? Comments. Please send us comments. We're doing very well. We had our highest. Today is Saturday the 27th. We're recording this. Yesterday was our highest traffic day on Spotify.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes, it was.

[A]

You didn't tell me that.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Well, we appreciate you guys.

[B]

And we are currently number 53. Wow. On trending podcasts.

[A]

You were gonna say friend de Araguas for a second.

[B]

No, I'm saying trending podcasts on Spotify. So we really appreciate.

[A]

Speaking of, find any way you can to watch that 60 Minutes documentary, because it is very important to watch Speaking of Trende Aragua.

[B]

And if you know other. If you know. Here's the assignment. If you know one other person who loves words.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Tell them to watch one of the episodes, your favorite episode.

[A]

Aww. Yeah, you should. Or whatever. Tell your friends.

[B]

Tell your friends.

[A]

Tell your friends. And then you can write it to us in the form of an optimization problem or some sort of like. Like.

[B]

Or a haiku.

[A]

Well, I was just gonna say, because I have to practice for math. So if you say, like, I don't know, if you start out with five people and then you. Each five person tells five people for a certain amount of time. Like, I could write that as exponential equation, because I have math to do next quarter, and I. I feel like I have to get back into the swing of it, so. Any math lovers out there, please send. Please send. Send. Equations.

[B]

She is on break, which is why we've been able to record here next to one another. And that's just gonna be.

[A]

What am I doing next? Car. I'm doing linear. Linear algebra.

[B]

Linear algebra, which is not to be. Not.

[A]

Not to be confused with regular algebra.

[B]

Curvy. Curvy. This is linear.

[A]

When I was, like, in high school and I was, like, learning that I'd have to take a linear algebra class. Class, I'd be like, oh, that's so easy. I've already taken an algebra class.

[B]

Yeah, no, I mean, I will tell you, linear algebra is considered to be pretty intense. Yes. It's not tensor calculus, mind you, which is needed for Einstein's general theory of relativity, which I was beyond me. Just to be clear, I did not learn tensor calculus. I never really. Did you learn general relativity in general relativity?

[A]

What about special relativity?

[B]

Special relativity was a. Was a seminar class undergrad at MIT when I was there.

[A]

Special. Yeah, that's.

[B]

General relativity is a graduate level. Yeah, that's just.

[A]

No, every. I used to think that general relativity was the easier one because it's like, oh, it's general. Then there's special relativity, and that's like, oh, it's special. No, special relativity is the easy. I. I've read special relativity, and if.

[B]

We want to send a salute to How I Met yout Mother, we would say, I salute you. General relativity.

[A]

General relativity.

[B]

We salute you.

[A]

We salute you, General relativity. I haven't even watched that show, but I know that meme because my friends do it. General relativity.

[B]

I watched this.

[A]

They'll do like major depression.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Major depressive disorder.

[B]

All righty. So happy by the time you listen to this. No, no, you're going to listen to this. This will be Tuesday. So we hope you had a happy Christmas and a happy Hanukkah and a happy Kwanzaa.

[A]

Kwanzaa.

[B]

And.

[A]

And a happy holiday season for any holiday that you may celebrate. Happy Yule for all the pagans.

[B]

And Next year is gonna be great.

[A]

Next year is gonna be great. 2026 is gonna be our year. Well, anyway, have a wonderful week and.

[B]

And a great new year.

[A]

Merry. Lovely.

[B]

Because after this episode, it'll be the new year when we do the next episode.

[A]

That's true. Happy 2025 and a merry new one.

[B]

Ciao. On January 9th, Greenland 2 is making an impact across the globe. Hang on. Audiences rave. It's deeply emotional and better than the first. I wanted you beginning first. You'll be holding your breath from start to finish. Oh my God. Grappling something. Greenland 2. Migration. Rated PG 13.

[C]

There are names that echo in the world of true crime. Names that carry unanswered questions. Oakley, Carlson. A five year old girl who deserved safety, protection and love. Yet the system built to protect her failed. And Oakley disappeared. Her community still calls her name.

[B]

Or Ellen Greenberg. Found in her locked apartment with 20 stab wounds. A case declared a suicide. But how does a locked apartment tell two different stories at once?

[C]

These are not just cases we have covered.

[A]

They are people.

[C]

They were loved and they mattered.

[B]

Their stories deserve to be told with care, with depth, with truth.

[C]

I'm Ashley.

[B]

And I'm Ricky.

[C]

We are the husband and wife duo behind Crime Salad.

[B]

Every week we uncover stories of the missing. The silence, the misunderstood. We ask the questions that were left behind. We refuse to let these stories be forgotten.

[C]

Because behind every case is a family holding on. A community seeking answers and. And a story that deserves to be heard.

[B]

We invite you to listen to Crime.

[C]

Salad, your healthy portion of true crime. Wherever you get your podcasts.