What Taylor's 'Cruel Summer' Can Teach You About How To Go Viral | #9

Summary

Decoding Taylor Swift: A Storytelling Revolution

Episode 9 – "Hyperbole and Heartbreak" (August 26, 2025)

Hosts: Joe Romm and Toni Romm
Main focus: The transformative power of hyperbole in storytelling, with Taylor Swift's "Cruel Summer" as the centerpiece.

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Overview

This episode explores the use of hyperbole—purposeful exaggeration—as a core storytelling tool, especially in Taylor Swift’s “Cruel Summer.” The father-daughter duo break down Swift’s use of hyperbole, its roots in classical literature, and how everyday communicators can harness it to capture attention, drive missions, or simply craft a viral Instagram headline. The episode fuses a deep dive on “Cruel Summer” with playful debate, literature and media riffs, and advice for boosting your own storytelling game.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Hyperbole?

• The Age of Exaggeration: Joe and Toni declare we live in "the age of hyperbole," where exaggeration cuts through overwhelming information streams.
  “This is the age of exaggeration and extreme statements. That's what people are using to get your attention.” (Joe, 03:36)
• Hyperbole is not just for fiction or songwriting—it's vital in today’s headlines, email subject lines, and viral content creation.

2. Defining Hyperbole

• Etymology: From Greek "hyper" (beyond) and "bole" (to throw); literally, "to throw beyond" (Joe, 06:10).
• Distinction: Toni jokes about “hyper-bowl” and stresses the rhetorical purposes of hyperbole—making truths larger-than-life for effect.
• Modern application: The word "hype" itself derives from hyperbole.

3. Hyperbole in Literature (and Swift)

• “Cruel Summer” begins with personification—summer as "cruel," assigning human traits to a season.
• The hosts discuss famous literary openings heavy with hyperbole:
  • Dickens: “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” (Joe, 08:51)
  • Austen: “It is a truth universally acknowledged…” (Jane Austen, Pride and Prejudice, 10:10)
• Toni offers unsparing (and hilarious) literary hot takes:
  “Let me tell you guys something. [...] Comedy of manners are some of the boringest things that anybody's going to ask you to ever sit through in your entire life.” (Toni, 11:19)

4. Hyperbole in Modern Media

• Media thrives on polarized reviews—5 stars or “the worst ever”—to elicit emotions that drive engagement.
• Toni brings up an outrageously-headlined Washington Post article, emphasizing how such hyperbole grabs attention (18:27).
• Advice for Communicators:
  “Your opening has to be a killer thing. [...] Make that headline as much of an extreme version of the truth as you can if you want to get people to click through.” (Joe, 18:20, 21:45)

5. Swift’s Mastery of Hyperbole

• Taylor Swift’s lyrics are steeped in hyperbole, especially in “Cruel Summer,” “Blank Space,” and “Getaway Car.”
• Death and love are dramatized repeatedly:
  “Darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream.” (“Blank Space”, discussed at 13:59)
  “Killing me slow, out the window, I'm always waiting for you to be waiting below.” (“Cruel Summer”, dissected at 31:14)

6. Deep Dive: "Cruel Summer"

a) The Opening Lines

• "Fever dream high": Hyperbolic imagery situates listeners in a surreal, heightened state (27:17).
• References: Allusions to Midsummer Night’s Dream (29:17), Romeo and Juliet (30:09).
  • “I'm always waiting for you to be waiting below”—that’s the balcony scene in Verona.” (Joe & Toni, 33:15)

b) The Persona and Stakes

• "Bad, bad boy, shiny toy, with a price"—double hyperbole, double foreshadowing (30:14).
• “Killing me slow” and dying references abound:
  “She dies a lot in her songs… It’s the same after three months in the grave.” (Joe, 32:00)

c) The Chorus: Metaphor, Rhyme, and Impact

• Analysis of Swift’s playful rhyme:
  • “She has created a quadruple rhyme where ‘Ooh—whoa—oh, it's cruel summer’…” (Joe, 45:40)
• Breakable Heaven: Noted as both brilliant foreshadowing and a metaphor for ephemeral joy (46:27).

d) Situationships & Modern Romance

• Toni riffs on generational dating:
  “Our generation's dating scene is ruined… everybody makes it weird and they're all like, situationship.” (Toni, 47:06)

e) Bridge Breakdown (“Queen of Bridges”)

• The bridge is lauded as possibly Swift’s best (54:01):
  “This bridge takes the song, which is a very good song to this point…and it just goes totally bonkers.” (Joe, 54:24)
• Lyrics unpacked for metaphor and emotional escalation:
  • “I'm drunk in the back of the car and I cried like a baby coming home from the bar.” (55:15)
  • “I don’t want to keep secrets just to keep you.” (56:08)
  • “I snuck in through the garden gate every night that summer just to seal my fate.” (58:14)
    • Joe connects the “garden gate” to the metaphorical Garden of Eden (59:01).
  • The climax: “For whatever it’s worth, I love you. Ain’t that the worst thing you ever heard? He looks up grinning like a devil.” (59:39-60:18)

f) Reverse Hero’s Journey Argument

• Joe argues Swift’s songs (esp. “Cruel Summer”) are “reverse hero’s journeys”—she starts as an extraordinary figure, crashes and burns in the ‘normal world’ before returning to stardom with wisdom for her audience (64:26).
• Debate: Toni pushes back, positing that for Swift, songwriting is self-expression first, not necessarily a cautionary parable for fans (68:02).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Hyperbole as a Social Tool

• "If you want to get noticed, you have to do some extreme version of what you were going to say or do.” (Joe, 03:46)
• “The best way to guilt trip someone is to use really, really gratuitous violence! Use gore, use a lot of blood…” (Toni, 52:45) [tongue-in-cheek]

On Literature

• “Is it Jane Austen?” (Toni, 10:47)
• “No, it’s not the Great Gatsby.” (Joe, 10:56)

Modern Media Satire

• “You might be peeing all wrong. And that's a real article that they wrote… What the hell do they want us to do? We can't pee. Can we all just converge on the…” (Toni, 18:27)

On Swift’s Career

• “If you're not a great singer, you have to write your own hit songs because people will stop writing hit songs for you once you're out of fashion.” (Joe, 37:02)

Feminist, Generational, and Family Banter

• “Bringing feminism to this room, by the way… if you're on your period, I see you. I hear you. I'm there right now with you.” (Toni, 51:04)
• “He looks like a cool person when he wears it, though. He's bald underneath.” (Toni, 36:17)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 03:35 — The need for hyperbole in today's world
• 06:10 — Etymology and meaning of "hyperbole"
• 08:51 — Literary hyperbole: Dickens, Austen, etc.
• 13:59 — “Blank Space” lyric breakdown: “Nightmare dressed like a daydream”
• 18:27 — Outrageous media headlines and attention economics
• 21:45 — The critical importance of bold, hyperbolic openings
• 27:18-30:14 — “Cruel Summer” lyrical analysis: fever dreams, metaphor, and foreshadowing
• 31:14 — Hyperbolic lyric breakdown: “Killing me slow out the window…”
• 45:00-46:30 — Chorus: inventive rhyme and metaphor (“breakable heaven”)
• 54:01-55:32 — The legendary “Cruel Summer” bridge, line by line
• 59:01 — Garden of Eden metaphor in “Cruel Summer”
• 64:26-69:00 — Reverse Hero's Journey and the debate over Swift’s intentions

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Homework / Takeaway

How to Apply Hyperbole for Impact:

“The next time you are writing something or on an interview, whatever it is, your opening has to be as bold a statement as you are comfortable making on that topic. The opening is not the place to be understated.” (Joe, 70:20)

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Tone, Style, and Memorable Banter

• Warm, irreverent, and whip-smart; full of inside family jokes, cultural references, and literary hot takes.
• Memorable running gags: Toni’s period as feminist solidarity, Joe’s hyperbolic literature references, and on-air singing debates.
• Playful boundary-poking:
  “Every time you mention something sexually explicit, you give me $20 for reparations.” (Toni, 60:18)

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Conclusion

This episode is a dynamic crash course in not just understanding but wielding hyperbole—whether in social media, songwriting, or storytelling. By unpacking Taylor Swift’s “Cruel Summer” with wit and rigor, Joe and Toni model how to dissect and apply the storytelling strategies of modern pop’s Shakespeare. Their advice: Don’t be afraid to be bold, dramatic, and a little bit “cruel” in chasing audience attention—and always seize the power of a great bridge.

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For more tools, literary decodings, and lightly-chaotic banter, tune in next week to Decoding Taylor Swift.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Joe Rome and I'm his daughter Toni.

[B]

Welcome to Decoding Taylor Swift, where you'll learn the storytelling tools Swift uses that make her a modern day Shakespeare, but.

[A]

Can make you a better communicator so you can drive your mission and build your tribe.

[B]

Rolling Stone magazine put both me and Swift on its list of 100 people changing America. So I know that the most successful social change makers are the best storytellers.

[A]

This podcast will transform how you think about Swift songs and give you the life changing tools to lead, connect and change the world.

[B]

All righty.

[A]

Welcome.

[B]

Oh, cabaret.

[A]

Yes. It's all over my TikTok page.

[B]

It's episode nine.

[A]

It's episode nine. That's. What is it? That's, that's. That, that's. That's. Hold on.

[B]

That's the last one. That's the last Kylo Ren.

[A]

And what's her face? Rey Kissing one.

[B]

I don't know. That's the final Star Wars. If we were still going to keep doing that, but we're not. Thankfully, we'll be done with that. Thank goodness that we've reached the end of the Star Wars.

[A]

Ruin them for now. Yeah.

[B]

Unless we go to Andor or something like that.

[A]

Andor's good.

[B]

That's what I heard.

[A]

Or Clone Wars. Clone wars took place in between the like first and third or whatever.

[B]

Really excited to be with you today.

[A]

I'm so, so excited to be with you too. I had no idea that I was being. I was being brought here. Yeah.

[B]

He put a bag my daughter's already. She's got like.

[A]

He dragged me here.

[B]

Putting out viral content on our Instagram account.

[A]

Back of a car, which is count the bumps on the road.

[B]

Decoding Taylor Swift, I think is our Instagram account.

[A]

Yeah. Again, I'm just coming out of my chloroform, but I'm pretty sure that that is.

[B]

Who is chloroforming you before the podcast.

[A]

What? No, nobody was chloroforming me. Oh, well, you were right. You like put the bag over my head and you dragged me.

[B]

Yeah, I did. I did forget that. So anyway, this. We're very excited now that we are number two. Number two in the music category of Apple podcasts.

[A]

Yes. Second only to Joe Budden, but you could say that this Joe is budding and that's beautiful.

[B]

Oh, wow. My daughter is on fire. Yes. We were told by.

[A]

I said that twice in the room with the sound designers. None of them laughed either time.

[B]

But our audio engine doesn't really believe in us. Because he doesn't think we can ever catch up to Joe Budden.

[A]

No, he doesn't. He said that Joe Budden, you know, maybe we could do a little partnership.

[B]

Maybe he's one of those teachers who says. I think he's one of those teachers who says to you, you'll never succeed in life. Just to piss you off enough so that you do succeed in life.

[A]

Maybe.

[B]

Is that what's going on here? Audio engineer, yes.

[A]

Audio engineer. Is that what's going on here?

[B]

Smiling. I've uncovered him.

[A]

Yes, it's true. So Joe Budden hit us up in. That wasn't very funny. That's okay. Thank you, Joe Budden.

[B]

No worry. The audience in the, in the, in the. We have a whole focus group going on in the background and they just turn their dials way down. Way down.

[A]

To cope with my kidnapping, I did kidnap all of them.

[B]

So anyway, very exciting because today we are going to talk about one of Taylor's greatest songs.

[A]

Yeah. Hey, keep it down. Sorry. They were trying to scream and leave anyway. Yes, we're talking about one of Taylor's greatest songs. Cruel Sam. Summer.

[B]

Cruel Summer. And what a good opportunity to talk. Use that song. A song that is immersed in hyperbole.

[A]

Immersed, drenched even.

[B]

And hyperbole is. We're in the age of hyperbole.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

This is the age of exaggeration and exaggeration and extreme statements. That's what people are using to get your attention.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

Right. Because there is this open fire hydrant of stuff coming at you every day from your phone and everything else. And if you want to get noticed, you have to do some extreme version of what you were going to say or do. And so we will get into that. This is how you, how do you get the attention? This is in the, in the goal of you produce content. When you're. Or you're talking to someone, you have to grab their attention and you have to keep their attention. Now to keeping the attention that's telling stories.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the grabbing the attention, that's the tricky part.

[A]

That is the tricky part.

[B]

You're gonna need to make some sort of extreme statement and also promise an interesting story. Yeah, that's one way to get people to click on your stuff or share your stuff.

[A]

Use a little bit of foreshadowing, maybe use a.

[B]

But absolutely put some butts in there. The nice thing about Cruel Summer is. Oh, why? What's going on here? How can Summer. First of all, how can summer be cruel? Right, that doesn't that by the way, what is Cruel summer as a figure of speech. Cruel summer is anthropomorphism.

[A]

No, I was going to say personification.

[B]

Personification. Yes, yes.

[A]

And he started mouthing at me and.

[B]

I was like, what are you doing? Giving a human quality to something that doesn't have that isn't human.

[A]

Yeah. Right.

[B]

Okay. And let's play what we're going to.

[A]

Play a little bit. We're just going.

[B]

We're just going to play the opening.

[A]

Two lines just to get people who.

[B]

Aren'T maybe so into Taylor here. Here's the opening of the song.

[A]

I. It's weird if you don't know this. This is like 2 billion streams. People dream high in the quiet of the night. You know that I caught it.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Now they'll never know how that line ends. Listen to the song. Listen.

[B]

As for those of you who are new, the way we do this podcast is the first third or so we talk about the figure. The figure, the main lesson, how you the skill. An important storytelling tool or as we say, memory. Viral memory trick that you need to.

[A]

Know that the great bards use and.

[B]

How to why it's important and how you can apply it actionably.

[A]

Actionably in your life. In this case, it is hyperbole.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Or hyperbole. Hyperbole, some pretentious men would use to say.

[B]

And just so you know, if you look it up on Etymonline, which is one of the etymology sites, it is not an edamame. It is obvious exaggeration in rhetoric. It comes from the Greek meaning exaggeration, literally hyper, which means throwing beyond. Like hyperextension.

[A]

Sure. And.

[B]

And bole, meaning like a bolt. Right?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Or a missile or a beam from Balin. To throw. And so it sort of means to throw beyond. Right.

[A]

Throw beyond.

[B]

That's what you're doing with hyperbole. You're going way beyond cast.

[A]

Cast beyond.

[B]

Cast beyond the normal, let's say.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And it also apparently a word that I have used in a title of my book.

[A]

Omg. What was that word, Joe? Hype.

[B]

Hype.

[A]

Hype.

[B]

Comes the word hyperbole. If you hype something, you are using hyperbole to sell it.

[A]

Or hype something up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Listen to the podcast.

[B]

20 years ago I wrote a book called the Hype about hydrogen, which is about hydrogen energy and why it's been overhyped.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And I actually just this year re completely rewrote it and put it out again. And it is one of. It was my best selling book, I think.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Man spoke at a climate conference well, out there, but. So the idea is, how do you say something in a way that is both truthful but extreme? Now, again, if you're just writing fiction, you don't have to do that. Right, right, right.

[A]

Because you don't have to be true.

[B]

Right. And it's very common in fiction. By the way, we've already seen. If we go back to episode one, when we talked about getaway car.

[A]

That's a really great question.

[B]

Was that episode one, getaway car foreshadow? Right. Nothing good starts in a getaway car. Yeah, that was foreshadow. But there's this line.

[A]

Actually, our first song was really me with Brendon Urie. But then everybody.

[B]

No, it was never threatened us with Bre. I don't even.

[A]

We had three session zeros. Everybody hated it. They recorded for five hours straight. I, I, I, I didn't remember who I was by the end of Feel.

[B]

Like I have lost time from some alien.

[A]

Everybody threatens us. They threaten us if we're not good.

[B]

But the second line in that song is, it was the best of times. It was the worst of crimes.

[A]

So true.

[B]

Right. Which she. Copyright alert, is making an allusion, which is another figure of speech.

[A]

Yes. To A Tale of Two Cities from.

[B]

A Tale of Two Cities, one of the most famous openings of any book or work of art. Which was the best of times, it was the worst of times. Right, sure. This is hyperbole. It was the age of wisdom. Was the age of foolishness. Right. So this is a whole string of hyperboles by Dickens.

[A]

That's why he just has those memorized.

[B]

Opening the song. No, I'm looking at them right in front of me. But the other key line is we were all going direct to heaven. We were all going direct the other way. Right. Which will come back into Cruel Summer. Whoa. Which is about heaven and hell.

[A]

So if you were sleeping, because that was just an insane monologue that you just went on. Just wake up. It's done now. The point's been made.

[B]

Point of minute. I wanted to read one quote from a woman author.

[A]

Wait, that. Oh, my gosh. Wait. No, no, no.

[B]

This is going to shock you because you think I only quote male authors.

[A]

Wait. Oh, my God. But wait, is she a white woman?

[B]

She is.

[A]

That's horrible.

[B]

I don't think when you hear this, you'll think it's horrible. But the point is, it is very common for the first line in a book to be a hyperbole. Right. You may have heard of this one.

[A]

Whatever, man.

[B]

It is a Truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of. Of a wife. Now, you know what?

[A]

Yeah, that's from Little Women.

[B]

No, my D. Oh, my God.

[A]

Wait, cut that out. Cut that out.

[B]

No, we're not cutting that out.

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Wait, wait, wait, wait. Let me look at it. Is the truth universally acknowledged that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of wife? Guys, hold on. This is from one of the books. I'm. Look, I'm leafing through my pamphlet of books by women that I've read because I only read books by women.

[B]

I'm going to give you a hint. One of the most famous titled books.

[A]

Is it Jane Eyre?

[B]

No.

[A]

Is it Jane Austen?

[B]

It has alliteration. The open title. That's good. Great Gatsby is alliteration.

[A]

No, it's not the Great Gatsby.

[B]

It's better alliteration, the first two letters. In fact, it's got alliteration followed by consonants. Pride and Prejudice.

[A]

I asked if it was Jane Austen.

[B]

Yes, well, I wasn't going to tell you. You were right. You have to know that you're right, otherwise you're just going to strike string a whole bunch of famous female authors. Oh, come on. We've been this through a million times.

[A]

Sorry, I've never read it. Because you know what, let me tell you guys something. I think, and this is a hot take. Charlotte Bronte and I think Louisa May Alcott. I like him better than Jane Austen. I can't lie. We read Emma for AP lit and I think comedy of manners are some of the Boris boringest things that anybody's going to ask you to ever sit through in your entire life. They're like, oh, my God. Oh my God, what's this?

[B]

But did you see the movie Clueless? Yeah. Well, Clueless was.

[A]

Yeah, but that's just because it has Paul Rudd in it. That's why.

[B]

But Clueless was the modern update of Emma.

[A]

See, the problem is, is that at Emma they didn't actually have like the closet that picks your wardrobe. Like, if they added that detail, I might have liked it. It was just so stupid. It's like, oh, my gosh. Like they're in the carriage and somebody sick. Oh, no, no. Oh, my gosh. Yes. Oh, look at this little poor girl that I'm helping. Everybody hates her. There are people dying in G. Afghanistan. I think, like, can you please. I think they making us. Can we just read something that is.

[B]

Like a lot of pies in your face? Over that one. That's all I'm saying.

[A]

One of my best friends loves Emma, and I just want to say. I don't. We read the Invisible man the year before, and I was like, that's interesting. That's cool. And then the year before that. Okay, I think Hamlet's interesting. We read Hamlet. That was like death, you know?

[B]

Let me. Let me talk about it.

[A]

Let's talk about it. Emma. Oh, my God.

[B]

There's no.

[A]

We read 1984. I loved 1984. That's cool, man. Some double double think. Got some double think. Awesome double speak.

[B]

Well, you're all talking about some of the great works of literature, so let's talk about how you think about hyperbole. And so what I'm going to do.

[A]

Yeah. For instance, Emma is the worst book ever. Interesting enough. Not hyperbole.

[B]

Well, it is quite interesting that when we read movie reviews, or it's very often either I really hate it or I really love it. Right. You don't see the middle ground. Reviews. Because nobody wants. Well, it's got some good things and some bad things.

[A]

Well. And also, nobody who's had a meh experience ever feels so compelled to write a review about it.

[B]

Right. And that's why your Yelp reviews and all of that stuff, they're five stars or zero stars. Right. That's the way we live in this world. We live in a world where people love you or hate you. And we talked about that.

[A]

We.

[B]

When we were doing. Oh, man. This is blank space.

[A]

Oh, sure.

[B]

Right. So blank space. Another number one song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Also alternating forms of hyperbole.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream. Right. One of her most famous lines. And truth. This is the alternating of hyperbole. Is.

[A]

Right. Is under purbole. Hypoperbole. If you're being Greek.

[B]

Well, it's also antithesis. Right. We're contrasting one extreme with the very other extreme.

[A]

That's an interesting definition of opposite. I would say the opposite of hyperbole would be, like, under exaggeration.

[B]

I wasn't saying. No, it's not the opposite of hyperbole. Hyperbole.

[A]

Did you just say that?

[B]

No.

[A]

Am I finally going crazy?

[B]

The opposite of hyperbole would be understatement.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And the British are very famous for this. And you.

[A]

Yeah. Which is why they wrote a whole frigging book about it where nothing happens.

[B]

Well, they're understated, but you can use understatement as a form of irony. You can be ironically understated. So I want.

[A]

She's a good writer. Okay. Just before anyone comes for me, she's a good writer. I don't have a problem with her as a writer. I just think she could have picked maybe a more interesting topic. Maybe like, she could write like an epic about some like, turtles. She could write.

[B]

Talking about Jane Austen.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Just like.

[B]

Well, there's.

[A]

I just want to make sure that people don't, like, cancel me. Like, I support women who try and be writers. I support that.

[B]

But this was a while ago, so there was. It was even harder to be a writer then. I don't know.

[A]

I just think people should have, like, stories that are like, gonna resonate with people and not about like, oh my gosh, my upper class life is really hard. You know, I have to ride in a carriage because my. My PA lives half an hour away.

[B]

From me and that's judging old literature.

[A]

With a modern sense of I will. You know what. You know what Oscar Wilde was doing at around that same time? Writing the Portrait. A Portrait of Dorian Gray.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that is a freaking masterpiece. I've never read it, but I've heard good things. And I read a synopsis online and it sounds freaking crazy.

[B]

It's a great book.

[A]

Nobody goes insane in em. Nobody's. They're. They're frolicking in fields. Like, how is that relatable? Everybody lives in cities nowadays.

[B]

That's a. That's a kind of a horror novel. Yeah, where he gets younger and the painting in the closet gets older. Gets older and uglier.

[A]

I've never read it. I just assumed that when you said younger, it meant you should all see. Don't spoil it.

[B]

No spoil.

[A]

I. I have more pretentious things to read, so I'm trying to like, get that out of the way. I got Machiavelli in my room right now. I'm trying to pick that up and read.

[B]

Well, I will tell you that the nice thing about the prince is it's a short book, right?

[A]

It's a pretty good.

[B]

You should read short books. Like famous books rather than the long famous books. I did that, by the way, just so you know, when I was in college, nerd alert. I wanted to read something by James Joyce. Right? Now I was not going to read Ulysses. That's like a forever book.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Right? So I read A Portrait of the Art.

[A]

Same man. Same with the Invisible man. Tbh. That book was a brick. And we had five weeks to read it. Actually, we had three weeks to read it. And we got Threatened if we didn't finish it.

[B]

So I want to give. I think we.

[A]

My high school. It's like people are picking their nose.

[B]

We have hyperbole here by a. A off topic discussion. That was hyperbolic.

[A]

That was so true, King.

[B]

That was. That I was.

[A]

And it's almost like I planned that because plot twist Joe, before you pointed it out, acting like nobody could understand what was happening. I actually planned that. I actually knew that that was happening. Actually actually wanted to do that just so people could understand.

[B]

You're like, sometimes.

[A]

Sometimes women can do things.

[B]

You're like. You're like Sherlock Holmes. You're like.

[A]

And he only puts quotes from white women.

[B]

I'm saying genuinely does not understand. Insane.

[A]

The multitude of experiences that women can have.

[B]

Let me talk a little bit about.

[A]

What quote from one way in this whole show. In this whole goddamn show.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

You should throw some pies in his face. Let's get that started.

[B]

Do not. Do not be.

[A]

Make a really hard pie. Let's get some pecan pies in this guy.

[B]

Pecan pie. Whatever it is, it's got to be glute free. That's all I'm saying.

[A]

Throw a gluten low one in his hands. He'll die.

[B]

So what we're trying to do. And this is true, when you're writing that email subject line.

[A]

Email subject. Oh, yes, this is true for email subject lines.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Listen up, kids.

[B]

Or we're writing the Instagram post.

[A]

Or for presentations.

[B]

Presentation. Yes. Your opening has to be a killer thing. In fact, you were showing me something in the Washington Post.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Can I talk about the. This God freaking forsaken horrible article. It's called. Let me put my Instagram story. I was so mad that I posted about it. I said, another banger from the Washington Post. They said, because apparently there's no more interesting news out there. You might be peeing all wrong. And that's a real article that they wrote because nothing else is happening in the world right now that would warrant this. This space that this article took up. Let me read you some of the things that they said. Don't push. It can weaken your pelvic floor muscles. Don't pee in the shower. For women with pelvic floor dysfunction and man with enlarged prostates, standing up instead of sitting down can make it harder to empty the body. So they say, don't push. Don't stand. Don't hold it in. Don't pee. Just in case. Don't hover over the toilet seat and don't Expect to be empty. What the hell do they want us to do? We can't pee. Can we all just converge on the.

[B]

Washington Public Service message? Wow, we are really delivering values.

[A]

That's the goddamn stupidest thing I've ever read. And that is hyperbole. And you can quote me. And you know what I have. I have a neighbor who writes for the Washington Post, and I will be taking this up with him once he gets back from wherever the hell he went.

[B]

You write a letter to the Post?

[A]

I should.

[B]

I used to get letters in the Post all the time, by the way.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yes. I figured out the secret when I first moved to Washington in the 1800s, after the letters, when they were still writing on papyrus and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, yeah. Yes, I was right. I would read their articles, and if somebody had a Shakespeare quote but had misused.

[A]

Oh, my God, he told me about this.

[B]

Yeah. If they misused a Shakespeare quote, I would point out that they were. That they hadn't quoted the thing correctly or they quoted out of context, or they misattributed, or they got the meaning backwards because Shakespeare was being ironic. People are always quoting Shakespeare quotes as if he literally meant what he said. Almost all of those quotes, folks, they're ironic.

[A]

Yes. But aside.

[B]

The same with Taylor Swift, by the way.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

It's the same with Taylor Swift. You quote Taylor Swift and you should quote.

[A]

Aside from the nerds, what he would do with these letters is he would put the thing that they got wrong, and then he would add something else that he just wanted to say, like, guys, climate change is real. Climate change is real. By the way. You also misattributed this quote just so they would, like, read the letters, which is an insane thing to do.

[B]

That is exactly what I pointed out. But there's no point in writing the letter.

[A]

Jeffrey Epstein didn't commit suicide, by the way. In this line, you've misattributed this Hamlet quote just so they would open up the letter.

[B]

Like, seriously, that's a very good idea. And I wish. I wish to honest goodness that I.

[A]

Had thought maybe, maybe, hey, people are still quoting Shakespeare out here. People are still quoting Taylor Swift. That's what people are doing.

[B]

But the point is.

[A]

What was the point? You're talking about Adele, right?

[B]

If you pick up. If you go to the front page of any online publication these days, the headlines generally are going to be hyperbolic like that. Because one of the things you learned. I think I said it in a previous episode. When you're Writing whether it's email, subject line, your click through rate is very low. You send a cold email to someone, you get maybe 2 or 3% of people running through. When I was blogging, I blogged for 12 years, did over 2000 posts and we had professional headline writers and we would test headlines. Our click through rate was only 5%. Only 1 in 20 people were going beyond the headline. So you better make that headline as much as an extreme version of the truth as you can if you want to get people to click through.

[A]

And Joe, I heard you came with some examples, is that true?

[B]

Well, I have been on LinkedIn, when I knew my book was coming out, I started going on LinkedIn and posting all the time.

[A]

LinkedIn, do what connects you or whatever their slogan is. Please sponsor us.

[B]

There are a billion people on LinkedIn. The main difference is we're doing a.

[A]

Free sponsorship for LinkedIn. Please sponsor us. God, I'll do a funny voice for the ads.

[B]

I don't think LinkedIn is going to sponsor us, damn it. But I will say that you can apply these techniques to any social media site. Just make sure that the opening line is a very, very strong eye catching open line. And my top post, I have had 2 million top post alert in seven months. I've had 2 million impressions, which is basically 2 million views.

[A]

Bam.

[B]

And my top post was top insurer warned were on track for 3 degrees Celsius, which is to say 5.4 degrees Fahrenheit warming, where insurance and finance quote, cease to function and we can't, quote, adapt. But the solutions are here.

[A]

Wow. Snaps so and if you say exactly that in an email subject line, maybe they'll open it up.

[B]

And that had 111,000 impressions. The second one, well, we're just, we're.

[A]

Going to move on without talking about the 3 degrees Celsius thing. That's like harrowing.

[B]

All right, well, just so people know, yes, I do this, this is my main job when I'm not talking about Taylor Swift, is yes, don't quit your.

[A]

Day job, but that's because we're on.

[B]

Track for very extreme warming and if we don't rapidly reduce emissions, then it will have very serious consequences. And this was written by someone who was on the board of one of the largest insurers in the world. And he was basically saying, you may have noticed it's getting hard to get properties insured. Right. If you live in a fire zone like Los Angeles or if you live.

[A]

Near the coast when rich people admit that something that affects everybody has like when we in society have a problem, that's how you know it's bad guys. So believe in climate change, because when rich people start to believe in seems perhaps, like, perhaps it's very bad. And three degrees is actually bad. I don't know if you guys know.

[B]

Well, that's 3 degrees Celsius. That's why I try to convert those numbers.

[A]

Well, 1.5 was supposed to be our limit. Limit, and that's double that. Two degrees was past the point of.

[B]

No. And just to be clear, since we use Fahrenheit in this country, so, yes, we were trying to keep total warming to 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit. Yeah, we're at 2.7 degrees Fahrenheit from pre industrial levels right now. So we're kind of blown past that.

[A]

It's okay.

[B]

But the point is every tenth of a degree is to be avoided. There are tipping points, there are lines that you cross and that leads to very accelerated things. And because you don't know exactly where those points are, you really don't want to take the risk. But anyway, the point is, anyway, that.

[A]

Was our do, do, do, do digression. And we're back.

[B]

I think we should dive into Cruel Summer.

[A]

Let's dive in.

[B]

Let's talk about, you know, Taylor, to be clear, is one of the queens of hyperbole.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, I think it is safe to say all the songs that we.

[A]

Have been talking, especially Reputation, all of her album reputation is pretty much hyperbole.

[B]

Well, all the songs that we have discussed. Right, Sure. I mean, she says it was the best of times, it was the worst of crimes. Right. That's the second line in Getaway Car. Right. And she says in.

[A]

And as we established, the worst of crime is clearly genocide. She's not committing that.

[B]

So betrayal, we've been through that before.

[A]

But what I'm saying is that that's what makes it hyperbole. Right. Because it's not the worst of crimes. It is just like a little light betrayal. So remember, whenever you betray your friends, tell them at least you're not committing genocide.

[B]

But as you may recall, right. Betrayal does get you in the inner circle of hell. Sure, that was the point.

[A]

But that's because in Dante's time, I don't think that they had genocide, because the name wasn't.

[B]

Perhaps there's. That's the ninth circle of hell, I think. So maybe there's a tenth circle of hell for that.

[A]

Feels like a pretty big jump, though. I feel like in reality there are probably Like a couple dozen, maybe. Could be that Dante wanted to leave off because he felt really, like, itched by this one dude who's like, you're the worst.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Like, you're at the, like at the lowest. That's. I'm just quoting what Dante said. That's what exactly Dante said in Italian. Italian is a very angry language, dad.

[B]

But the point is to. The point is that what Taylor is doing over and over again, I mean, in Anti Hero, right? She is like, she becomes a monster. She does, she dies. Right?

[A]

I know. Yeah. Watch the music video to that. That's.

[B]

I mean, that's. And that's another thing is oftentimes music videos are very hyperbolic.

[A]

By the way, I just want to say this is still a family friendly show. In every PG13 movie, there's one F bomb that's allowed to be dropped. So just want to get that out there, guys, showing your kids this.

[B]

Let's talk about Cruel Summer.

[A]

Cruel Summer, Right?

[B]

And yes.

[A]

What makes this summer so cruel?

[B]

Right. Well, that's the question we're going to try to answer. What makes this summer so cruel? And presumably that's the draw. We were sucked into the song. Why is this summer Cruel? Now, the opening words. Fever. That we played Fever Dream High in the quiet of the night. You know that I caught it. Okay, so the first two words are fever dream.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. So what is a fever dream?

[A]

It's when you have a fever and your dreams are really freaking crazy.

[B]

They are freaking crazy. Usually not good dreams. Generally they're not good dreams.

[A]

My fever dreams are just weird.

[B]

That's what they are.

[A]

Well, I'm recovering.

[B]

Wait, how many times have you had a fever and had a dream?

[A]

I've. Hey, I am. When I have fevers, I'm knocked out and I am recovering from a cold. My temperature just got up to like 99, which technically isn't a fever, but it still feels weird.

[B]

Oh, wait, I thought it was cold. If it's a cold, how can it be hot?

[A]

Anyway, so I had this dream that was. I just. I remember I was back in my old high school, but somehow it was also Old Navy. And I just remembered that the Sharks at Old Navy, because it was like a real pier we were on in the Old Navy, but it was a store. And the Sharks were wearing these really cool jeans and they were taking to Sydney Sweeney with a hatchet. And that was.

[B]

This is not a dream. That actually it was.

[A]

There was no Sydney Sweeney, but it was actually my school and it was an Old Navy store. And it was really crazy and there were sharks there. And that's honestly all I can remember.

[B]

That's the point. So Taylor is telling us in the first two words that this song is a fever dream.

[A]

Anyway, I just wanted to share that.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Thank you for letting me share that. We can cut that. I just wanted to share. I have really weird dreams ever since I graduated. Honestly, every single dream that I can remember has had something to do with my high school. And I don't know if I should go to somebody about that.

[B]

I'm gonna let you in on something. I still have dreams about mit. Oh, I do.

[A]

What about your high school?

[B]

I do not have dreams about my high school.

[A]

But you will find my high school is insane.

[B]

Well, I think you'll find this college is going to be kind of a level of intensity higher. That's going to seer in your mind and be the basis.

[A]

I don't know if it's a good school, guys, and you should apply.

[B]

Can we get back to the song, though?

[A]

Yeah. And we were talking about rolling in the deep.

[B]

Yes, we were talking about rolling in the deep. Fever dream. So we're being promised here.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

A fever dream.

[A]

A fever dream. Also reminiscent of Midsummer Night's Dream.

[B]

Well, that's the other point.

[A]

Midsummer Summer Night. Cruel Summer Dream. Fever Dream.

[B]

There's no question.

[A]

Bombs drop.

[B]

There are a lot of Shakespeare references in Taylor, so we know she's very familiar with Shakespeare play.

[A]

So sorry.

[B]

And yes, not only that, most of the song takes place at night because, of course, it's.

[A]

Well, she starts with in the quiet of the night.

[B]

Right. In the quiet night. So this is very good point. So this is a dream.

[A]

Thank you. He, like, poked me when he said that. So that's how you know that it's true.

[B]

It's cruel summer. Fever dream night. Right. So, yes, there is a reference here to A Midsummer Night's Dream by Shakespeare. No question about that. The second line is where we get to the foreshadow, the serious foreshadow. Bad, bad boy. Shiny toy with a price.

[A]

Oh, my gosh. Double entendre. Because price, when you pay for a toy. But price, like, oh, my gosh, there's a price. You know, just in case that wasn't.

[B]

Obvious that I bought it. Right. So there's. She is paying a price. She's. She. She bought it. So we know. She's going to pay a price. We know.

[A]

Again, that's foreshadow.

[B]

This is another bad. This is a double bad boy.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You sure it doesn't cancel out?

[B]

No, I don't think so. Now she, in one of her songs, she says, you know, she's been called a bad, bad girl.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So this is a. A phraseology that. That she certainly uses.

[A]

Phraseology. Whoa, is that a real word?

[B]

No, not really. Really a word, but so we know this song's going bad. I mean, obviously, if the title song is Cruel Summer, it ain't going to end well.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

And so that's part of the. Right. That's also the hyperbole of it. Right. That's what hooks me.

[B]

Yes. Right. Killing. So then we get to the serious part. Killing me slow out the window I'm always waiting for you to be waiting.

[A]

Below I think you have to do a better job reading this man. Like you're giving me nothing to work with. How am I supposed. What do you mean, killing me slow? You sound like you're being like, I don't know, giving him a massage.

[B]

Killing me slow out the window I'm always waiting for you to be waiting below that's good.

[A]

He ruffles his brows when he. When he really is getting in.

[B]

Now you.

[A]

This is just to paint a picture. And his brows are really thick too, so it does make a statement.

[B]

This is a lyric that is all hyperbole.

[A]

Right. Killing me slow that's most of figurative language.

[B]

Right? This is. And.

[A]

And most metaphors are hyperbole, Right?

[B]

Right. Many metaphors are hyperbolic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the point is she dies a lot in her songs, Right. She dies, as we saw.

[A]

So there's death by a thousand cuts.

[B]

There's death by a thousand cuts. She literally has the dream about her daughter in law killing her for the money.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In Annie, hero in all too well. You know, they're.

[A]

He's like, we were dead and gone and buried. Check the pulse. Come back swearing.

[B]

It's the same after three months in the grave. Right. So this.

[A]

And he wanted me to sing on the podcast. So that was what you.

[B]

And that's part of the hero's journey. The hero is dying, or metaphorically dying in a lot of great stories. Now we. We will try to figure out what this all means. Out the window Always waiting for you to be waiting below well, this, I.

[A]

Think it's doing worse things. I think she's like, I. I don't know. I'm waiting for you to kind of make the leap into doing the worst things, which is being like, I don't know. You don't have to talk about that because. Well, it's also itching to talk about that.

[B]

So whether. Freaking freak over here, some sexual connotations, whatever, has been put forward by people we'll come back to, but it also.

[A]

Been put forward by you.

[B]

An illusion to Romeo and Juliet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm waiting for you to be waiting below.

[A]

Right, that's in the famous balcony scene.

[B]

In the famous balcony scene, Verona. Which of course she is familiar with because she wrote a whole song about me.

[A]

Oh, tame me. There you go.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That's some more singing for you, Love story. You need to understand how much he begs and pleads for me to do. To do the lines of the. Of the songs on this podcast. Like, I'm. This is not even a joke. Like, genuinely. Audio engineer, can you give me a nod if he asks me to sing? He's giving me a thumbs up instead, which is not what I asked.

[B]

Audio engineer, could I get two thumbs up if I played for you her singing?

[A]

No, no, no, no, no, no.

[B]

She's actually a very good singer. Is she a good singer?

[A]

Because people don't like when women sing well unless they're like Cynthia Arivo, which everybody loves, by the way. If you've seen her. Jesus Christ, super dark lips. Oh, my God.

[B]

This is a podcast about a woman who sings really well. Okay? So I don't think you can say she's the most popular viral person on the planet. You know what?

[A]

That's actually a fair point because Taylor Swift wasn't a vocalist to begin with. And I don't ever consider myself a vocalist. I like, I do musicals, but I just like acting and I'm a nerd, and that's why I do them. And honestly, like, that's actually a really good point that I don't think you meant to make, because Taylor Swift. People say people are like people when they. When they find out that I listen to Taylor Swift, the first thing that they do. And this is completely a lie, but this has happened to me a few times.

[B]

Wait, is it a lie or is it true?

[A]

Well, this has happened to me a few times where people come up to me and she's like. And they're like, okay. But like, she's just like, her voice isn't really like Beyonce. You know what I mean? And like, like, yeah, like, that's not like a hot take. Like, guys, she's like, not like a singer. She's. Well, she's like, she's not a vocalist. Shall I say? She's just a singer. And honestly, what you just said gave me confidence. And, you know, Maybe I will. That's my arc, guys. Hero's journey right here.

[B]

I. This is.

[A]

Don't sign me labels. Don't sign me.

[B]

You just heard the bridge of our podcast. This is literally like the. The talk sing moment that changes everything. Yeah, it's just mind blowing. I stumbled on to something.

[A]

Maybe I could do a little Hamilton, too. That's my favorite musical, and that's zero singing. Well, I know it shouldn't be my favorite musical by now.

[B]

And by the way, Hamilton, I have often said, is the closest thing to what Shakespeare would be doing today if he were alive.

[A]

Lin Manuel Miranda, please come on this podcast. I'll literally do anything. I won't do genocide, actually. I just wanna.

[B]

Well, then you won't literally do anything.

[A]

No, I won't. That's hyperbole. That's hyperbole. All of this is hyperbole. Guys, this is the most meta episode we've had, and that's also hyperbole. Guys, stop. I can't stop talking in hyperbole. Wait, I can wait. That was hyperbole, too. Oh, my. I'm gonna remove myself from the mic. I'm going to just step back.

[B]

Let me say that. Look, we've heard. We. We went to the ERAS tour and we heard Taylor, and we went to the Cowboy Carter tour, whose hat I'm currently wearing, which very cool hat.

[A]

Has a bottle opener on it.

[B]

It does have a bottle opener on it.

[A]

He looks like a cool person when he wears it, though. He's bald underneath.

[B]

And that's, by the way, it's because I lost my Taylor Swift hat and his hair on the airplane to Chicago. But, yes. Look, we've heard Taylor and we've heard Beyonce, and I don't think many people would argue Beyonce has.

[A]

Guys, we saw Beyonce in concert. Oh, my God.

[B]

Anyway, but the thing about Taylor, the thing about the great singer songwriters is they don't have to be an Adele.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Because. Or a.

[A]

They can be in the case.

[B]

But the point is, if you look at a Bruce Springsteen.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Not the greatest voice in the world, but a masterful storyteller and songwriter, and he is able to have longevity in his career because if you're not a great singer, you have to write your own hit songs because people will stop writing hit songs for you once you're out of fashion.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. So that's the ticket. That's why she. The people who have really long careers are writing their own material. And if you're musicians out there or in here. Yes. You should learn how to write because at some point you're going to peak. Everyone's going to love you. You'll be able to get Max Martin.

[A]

And Shellbach or Shell Drake. There are two of them. There are two of them. The Swedish guy to stop naming their kids these Shell names.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

The. You'll be able to get some people to write songs for you for about a 5 to 10 year window. You'll be like, you know, Brittany.

[A]

That was a crack of my neck, by the way.

[B]

Or maybe Katy Perry, whom we've heard and, you know, not doing so well these days. Oh, guys, sad face. But the point is what Taylor has shown. And by the way, obviously her singing has gotten better.

[A]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

And her overall.

[A]

I mean, she has a good voice.

[B]

Yeah, no, she has a very good voice. And I think she has shown a musicianship also. She's very good at playing the piano. She learned that guitar. So the point is. Yes. Get better over time. People don't just rise to some level and think, oh, I'm the greatest. The people who are the most enduringly successful never stop getting better.

[A]

Okay, mic drop. Can we end there?

[B]

No, we can't. Because we're not done with. We haven't even gotten to the bridge of this song, arguably her greatest.

[A]

But we're at the moral end, right? We're at the ethic. We've had the moral.

[B]

Let's start zooming through this song a little bit. The next line. Go get next line. More hyperbole. What?

[A]

Let me do it.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

My gosh. Oh, my gosh. I'm fully self actualized, you guys. Where is it?

[B]

We're doing devils.

[A]

Devils, rolls, dice, angels, roller eyes. Doesn't kill me, makes me want you. That's beautiful.

[B]

I'm gonna count that as half second.

[A]

That's beautiful. That's my real voice. I don't know what you're talking.

[B]

Not your real voice, but. Devils roll the dice, Angels roll their eyes.

[A]

Okay, I think people could hear me pretty clearly.

[B]

So this is the classic. You got your angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other shoulder. The devil is saying, roll the dice with this bad, bad boy.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And the angels are rolling their eyes because this means once again, Taylor, you're gonna go for the bad boy and you can't hold yourself back.

[A]

Yeah. It's also kind of a jab at the audience because they're like, you know, or you know, critics who was like, oh, man, she only goes for bad boys. She doesn't ever.

[B]

Right. Well, she is labeling her Critics, angels.

[A]

Right, right. Which is also kind of ironic, which is kind of hyperbolic. Like anytime somebody does a little religion metaphor, that's usually always a hyperbole.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Or metaphor. Actually, that's another great.

[B]

Well, one of the Bible singers best songs, or at least is Take me to Church.

[A]

Oh, my God. Hosier. Take me to church mentioned. I know it's probably. Hosier, I'm so sorry, I love you. If you can. Come on.

[B]

Take me to Church. A very metaphorical song.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And a very hyperbolic song.

[A]

It is a very hyperbolic song.

[B]

And back here though, because this line, what doesn't kill me makes me want you more.

[A]

Which is a play on Kelly Clarkson's what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. I mean, obviously, I'm sure she didn't come up with the phrase.

[B]

Right. She could have kill me. I believe you're stronger is the famous phrase. So what Taylor is saying here is actually all the terrible things this guy is doing to me isn't making me stronger. It's just making me want him more, which is crazy. So this is her at her most masochistic.

[A]

This is propaganda for shit bag men and I don't think I should stand for it. So a little psa. If a man does bad things, you should leave him.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He doesn't fold his arm.

[B]

But we know from I knew you were trouble when you walked in that she knows when the guy's trouble and she still goes out with him. And the opening line of that song, once upon a time, a few mistakes ago, she just does the same damn thing over and over again.

[A]

I only go out with woke self actualized men personally. So I don't know what she's doing.

[B]

She had Maddie, I am so proud of you. You stick with that. My daughter. But all this is important. She is, as is often the case, every single line in the opening of stanzas are foreshadowed, which we will come back to because this is. Although this on the surface is sort of a bop. This is. This became number one.

[A]

It did. It is worth noting the initial release.

[B]

Right. This song came out on an album in 2019.

[A]

Yeah, right before COVID She never released.

[B]

It as a single, which shocked a lot of people. She said later, well, that's because of COVID interfered with it. In 2023, she announced the set list for the eras tour number one. And this song went to number one. This is one of her 12 number one songs.

[A]

He's opening up his folder. He brought a folder.

[B]

I did bring a folder. Just Because I want to read a little bit about what she said about this song. She said so people understand her view of the song. This song is one that I wrote about the feeling of a summer romance and how oftentimes a summer romance can be layered with all these feelings of, like, pining away and sometimes even secrecy. It deals with the idea of being in a relationship where there's some element of desperation and pain in it, where you're yearning for something that you don't quite have yet. It's just right there and you can't quite reach it. And this has some of her favorite lyrics in it. Yeah, so but desperation, I think is the key word.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Desperation is what this song is about. What doesn't kill me makes me want you more. Okay, so now we get to the chorus.

[A]

He slides it to me.

[B]

Real singing.

[A]

This is like. I don't know if I want to do this.

[B]

Come on, come on.

[A]

You know something, guys self actualizing is hard. And I may have been exaggerating. I may have done a little bit of hyperbole. Ding, ding.

[B]

Tell you what I'm going to do for you. I'm going to read the first line. The second line has to be sung, though. I will read. And it's new. The shape of your body. It's blue. The feeling I've got. So she's excited by this guy's shape.

[A]

Okay, I'm shutting my eyes.

[B]

She's also blue. Because this is kind of a hard relationship. Okay, but you have to sing this because this is an amazing.

[A]

But you sang it so funny before.

[B]

I can't do it.

[A]

Fine. Hey, how about this? Let's make a deal. I'll go in 50% for you singing this directly after me. So all. So how about. How about I sing it first and then you do what you were gonna do?

[B]

I'll do it if you sing it first. I will then sing it.

[A]

Okay, I'm only doing this because I just want. I want the audience to be able to experience what I heard before we started taping, which was insane. And it's ooh, whoa, whoa, It's a cruel summer. Now you do yours. All right, that wasn't my real voice either. Guys, I promise. I'm much worse than that.

[B]

And it's ooh. Oh, it's cruel Summer. I can't do it. It's too acapella. I need something to. To bite into.

[A]

Bite into?

[B]

Yes. I need something to connect to.

[A]

Look what Taylor can't connect to. It's O.

[B]

This is an amazing line. In a song. Really funny. Because she has.

[A]

And by the way, I'm going to cut out the first part of me singing.

[B]

No, you're not.

[A]

Yes, I. I'm going to do it.

[B]

You're stuck with it if you want to sing lousy. And. And that's. That's on you. But let's be clear on what Taylor has done here. She hasn't come up with an actual rhyme for its cruel summer, which she turns cruel.

[A]

Yeah. There's no rhyme for the cruel summer. So she does the.

[B]

So she has created a quadruple rhyme where. Ooh.

[A]

Do it, please.

[B]

She does.

[A]

Ooh.

[B]

Whoa. Oh, it's cruel. Some are.

[A]

This is not as amusing for the other people in the room, by the way. It's just amusing for me. So I hope that it's amusing for you.

[B]

To be clear, it's very hard to do a quadruple rhyme. She just takes the vowels out of the second half and just sings them in the first half. Right.

[A]

Amen, brother.

[B]

It's really amazing. And presumably she does it because she doesn't want to detract from the main point, which is. It's a cruel summer.

[A]

Sure, but what is it? Also, do it again. Do the thing.

[B]

I'm not singing again. There is no way I'm going to sing it again. But I will get to. The next line is also one of my favorite lines. I've referred to it before. It's cool. That's what I tell them. No rules in breakable heaven.

[A]

He's obsessed with the breakable heaven.

[B]

I like breakable heaven.

[A]

Probably why I got divorced.

[B]

Metaphor. No, she is describing her vision of a relationship as heaven that can get broken. Right. But is actually. Is a brilliant piece of foreshadow, which we'll get to. But the other thing she's doing here is she's describing her relationship with the guy in his terms. It's cool. That's what I tell him.

[A]

Yeah. Like, it's fine. Like, we don't have to be serious.

[B]

Right? We don't have to be serious.

[A]

Like, it's fine.

[B]

Right. We're not. This is not a thing. This is a situationship.

[A]

Is. You can switch. You know what, by the way, it's not like I haven't dated men. It's just that every man that I've, like, seen has always described it as a situationship. And so would I. Because our generation's dating scene is ruined because the Internet and adults ruined it, and everybody makes it weird, and they're all like, situations. I just Want people to make sure that they know that I'm not a single loser. I'm not unlovable. I'm not weird. I am lovable.

[B]

Oh, she is the most.

[A]

Not weird. Normal. Okay.

[B]

I fell with her.

[A]

Jesus Christ.

[B]

Minute they put her in my hand.

[A]

That sounds really tiny.

[B]

Like, just fit right in my hands. It's cool. That's what I tell him. Right? Because she doesn't believe it. That's just what she says to this guy. Oh, it's cool, right? There's. It's a cruel. There's no rules. Right. So she's saying, I'm going along with your view that this relationship has no rules. Right, Right. That's for you.

[A]

That's for you.

[B]

This is breakable heaven. This is foreshadowed that this is going to break.

[A]

And she's smart. Yeah. She knows that. It's like.

[B]

And then she repeats that line, which I'm not gonna sing again. And you could sing again if you'd like to write this time. Because how people can.

[A]

How about you get it right? How about you learn to sing? It's not so easy, is it?

[B]

I never said I was a good singer.

[A]

People don't like talented, beautiful, strong women.

[B]

Except for Taylor and that's Beyonce and a million other types of.

[A]

I have to keep my brand as a beauty. Less talentless woman.

[B]

Let's go to the next verse because it also more bonkers stuff. Hang your head low in the glow of the vending machine I'm not dying. And then you hear this sort of mechanical male voice. Oh, yeah, you're right. I want it. Well, that's how the song goes, right?

[A]

Yeah, sure, sure.

[B]

So hang your head low in the glow of the vending machine I'm not dying.

[A]

Okay, well, she went from dying from being killed slow to not die.

[B]

Well, she says, what doesn't kill me makes me want you more. So here she's just saying, okay, yes, I don't like this at all, but I'm not dying. In Rolling Stone magazine has the guy named Rob Sheffield, who is the guy who ranks all of Taylor's songs.

[A]

Yeah, she.

[B]

He puts Cruel Summer at 11. Personally, I'd put it at top five for reasons that we will get to. Because this is this. This song let's. I mean, all too well. Is always gonna be number one. I mean, if she can top that. Whoa. She's but ten and a half minutes. But that's not a bop. It became number one. But this is a wildly entertaining song.

[A]

Yeah, this is great.

[B]

As we'll get to. But this song is as layered in meaning as any song she wrote wrote. And I don't know that it gets the credit for that. But the point is, she says, I'm not dying. This is again, another statement that what doesn't kill me makes me want you more. Well, you're not killing me, but you're just making me want you more by treating me terribly. Right. This vending machine. It's not clear what that means, but metaphorically, Metaphorically, people have said, well, the vending machine is like.

[A]

Like a hospital.

[B]

The glow of the vending machine. Well, it's like a hospital, but the point is you get some cheap and easy choices. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

This is what she. He is viewing the world as a vending machine. There are people who believe that this is really kind of describing a woman seeing a guy flip through his phone for all the choices that are there. Because that's what a vending machine is. Right.

[A]

Like, I don't think he's seen a vending machine gun like Tinder. Right, sure.

[B]

Right. So the point is, the vending machine is like unlimited choices.

[A]

That was low hanging fruit. So I don't know.

[B]

I'm all I can tell you.

[A]

No, no, I shouldn't have picked on you for calling a vending machine a phone. And that's on me. And I apologize.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

I'm so sorry. I'm so tired right now. I'm on my period, you guys. This is a really male space, so I don't know. I know that a lot of women are going to be listening to this. I'm just going to be honest with you guys.

[B]

It's hard doing it this time of day.

[A]

Bringing feminism to this room, by the way. You guys. I'm just bringing feminism to this room. I had a really bad cramp before I came here, and I feel like women need to pull up to this club and represent. And that's what I'm doing right now. And I'm representing. So I just want to have that just be in here so we can make this a more woman friendly space. Because people complain a lot that my dad speaks. And they say, as we've established, I guess that people like the sound of my voice anyway. But I just do want to say, though, that for women, if you're on your period, I see you. I hear you. I'm there right now with you.

[B]

And I just want to say to Joe Budden, eat your heart out, because I don't think you've ever had this discussion on your podcast, you know, Joe Budden.

[A]

You couldn't even if you wanted to have this discussion. Except if you want me to come on your podcast, I gladly will. Anyway.

[B]

What now? We're getting into Howard Stern territory here.

[A]

So I think because 9, 11 already happened.

[B]

A real promise. Okay, let's zoom through this here. I just want to say the next line is, we say that we'll just screw it up in these trying times. We're not trying. Yeah, so she's just saying, again, you're not trying to have a real relationship. And then she says, so cut the headlights Summer's a knife I'm always wanting for you just to cut to the bone Devils roll the dice Angels roll their eyes and if I bleed, you'll be the last to know. Well, this is a horror show, but, I mean, but she's looking. No matter how badly you hurt me.

[A]

Right.

[B]

You're going to be the last to know.

[A]

So another actionable thing that you can do is whenever you want to guilt trip your current partner or exes, you can use these techniques. You can say, you're killing me. Please, I'm bleeding out here. You can say all of these very. The best way to guilt trip somebody is to use really, really gratuitous violence. Use gore, use a lot of blood. You can even use the word enema if you're feeling brave. You can use. What's the word for innards?

[B]

I. I think you'd better go, period.

[A]

Entrails. Enema is the thing that you put to pee better for the Washington Post. If you're the Washington Post, the only way they allow you to pee. Anyway, now I.

[B]

By the way, now I get why you're so obsessed with the whole peeing thing that. That now becomes clear to me.

[A]

Because it's a freaking article. I don't understand what they want from us anyway. Okay, whatever.

[B]

So after this, the chorus repeats, and then. And again. No rules in breakable heaven, sure, but. Ooh, it's cruel summer week.

[A]

And what time is it, Father, what time is it?

[B]

It is time for the bridge.

[A]

Amen, brother. And he checked his phone like he was gonna give me the time, but no, no, I checked the phone.

[B]

So I.

[A]

Because I was like, damn, get ready.

[B]

To play the bridge. And we're gonna play a longer cut than I normally would simply because. Oh, my gosh, this.

[A]

In the age of the Internet, possibly.

[B]

I mean, she's the queen of bridges. We've done many of her bridges.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

And her bridges she gets.

[A]

She should have built the one in Baltimore, man.

[B]

She should have. And this is like the George Washington Bridge.

[A]

Oh, my God. This is a regal ass bridge.

[B]

This is considered. This bridge takes the song, which is a very good song to this point.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

And it just goes totally bonkers.

[A]

Pause. Oh, yeah. So the pause is also the emphasis. I mean, we're not like strictly, like a music analysis, but like that's.

[B]

And the. And the. He looks up, grinning like a devil. But let's run through it all to understand what's going on here. I'm drunk in the back of the car and I cried like a baby coming home from the bar drinking.

[A]

Alert, trigger warning.

[B]

So this is PG 13. Audience well, we got a nice.

[A]

Don't do it.

[B]

A simile. Cried like a baby. Except we often don't think people don't actually cry like a baby. But Taylor probably is crying like a baby. But the question is asked, why is she drunk? Why is she in the back of the car?

[A]

Right. Because she's being driven around by this relationship. She's not in control.

[B]

Well, and also, presumably, if this was actually a literal sentence, then this guy must have pulled her out of the bar.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And just dumped her in the back seat. Said, I'm fine.

[A]

Seems specific. Maybe he's done that before. Well, and it goes, I'll look into that.

[B]

Said I'm fine. Well, obviously she isn't fine if she's drunk in the back of the car, crying like a baby. But she said, I'm fine. Once again, she's not being honest with the guy. But it wasn't true. And then she just says that, I don't want to keep secrets just to keep you.

[A]

Yeah. People say that's a Taylorism. And you know what? If somebody said that in the middle of English class, If somebody just came up with that line, people would call it freaking brilliant. The English teacher would be salivating. But it's just because it's Taylor Swift. People are like, oh, yeah, anybody can come up with that line, guys. She's a good writer.

[B]

Right. And by the way, this is. This is another figure of speech whose name escapes me. But when you. When you take.

[A]

When you reverse it.

[B]

When you. No, no, when you use a word like keep. Oh, one way. Keep secrets. Yeah. And then use a different way to keep you. Yes, that's. And Lincoln does that in the Gettysburg Address when he uses the word dedicated.

[A]

We actually had to read that speech.

[B]

For Papulet uses the word dedicated like four times. And they have different meanings each time. Right. So the point is, this makes the reader Think a little bit. And whenever you're forced to think, it becomes more memorable. Right? But the question is, what are the secrets that she has to keep to keep this relationship going? Right? Well, there's really only two possible secrets. One is the relationship itself is a secret from the public.

[A]

Right? And that's why people have speculated that this song is about Joe Alwyn. Because people don't, you know, she didn't want people.

[B]

She kept that relationship secret for a while. Because with Taylor, once she became really famous, anytime she dated with a boy, it would be like headline news everywhere. The paparazzi would follow her everywhere. And so it's possible the boy, you know, Joe or someone said to her, I'm not gonna date you if I have to deal with all this pop, you know, shit that comes along with.

[A]

Dating, which is kind of crazy. Hey, if I ever become famous and I start dating somebody, the press, hey, chew them. Freaking out. I don't want to date a pussy. I don't want to date a loser. If they can't take it, that's on them. Then they can break up with me.

[B]

Well, there you go. And by and large, she doesn't keep secrets that well. But the other point is. What's the other secret she has to keep just to keep him? That she's in pain, that she wants something more serious.

[A]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's in pain because she wants something.

[B]

She's in love with him. Right? We do. That's what we get to the point.

[A]

That's what we get to. That's the whole bridge. Yes, Bridges are so self actualizing.

[B]

But let's go to the next line. I snuck in through the garden gate every night that summer just to seal my fate.

[A]

Sealed her fate.

[B]

Okay, man, seal your fate. Okay, that's like, again, she is just bad. She is. This is her masochism. She's sneaking into this garden every night to seal her fate. Right, but again, there's a metaphor here. What's the garden gate?

[A]

If you say vagina, I'm going to kill you. He texted me that it was vagina and I said say that on podcast.

[B]

How can you just libel me right here in front of. Excuse me. Slander me in front. No, of course I didn't say that. This is the Garden of Eden.

[A]

That's a lot.

[B]

This is the Garden of Eden metaphor. Because again, we're talking about God, heaven and hell here. But the point is, when you. Why did they get kicked out of the Garden of Eden? Because Eve. Oh, she ate the apple from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

[A]

Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Right, right. So that's the forbidden fruit, as it's called. That's what she's going for here, the forbidden fruit. He is the forbidden fruit. And she is. That's why it's breakable heaven. That's what's being broken here.

[A]

But I'm glaring at him and I scream. I'm glaring.

[B]

For whatever it's worth, I love you. Ain't that the worst thing you ever heard? Right? So she's been bottling this up that she loves him.

[A]

She's just being like, oh, man, whatever. I guess I love you.

[B]

No, she's screaming this. Yeah, she's not saying it in his aside.

[A]

Well, but that's why she says, ain't that the worst thing you ever heard? She's just done. She's just like done keeping it a secret. She's like, ain't that right?

[B]

And that's. She's just the little irony. Ain't that the worst thing you ever heard? Except for this guy. It's not the worst thing. But then, then comes the killer line, the line that changes everything thing. He looks up, grinning like a devil.

[A]

Before we get into this, I just want to say, every time you mention something sexually explicit, you give me $20 for reparations.

[B]

Okay? I'm not going to mention anything sexually. All I'm going to say is all.

[A]

He talked about in his text to me, I had to brave this fight.

[B]

I just.

[A]

Anybody who's ever had conversations like this with their parents knows that not only is it harrowing, it's actually just such. I can't describe it using words.

[B]

Well, the question is, what is he doing when she's screaming, I love. For whatever it's worth, I love you? And it says, he looks up.

[A]

That's $20.

[B]

So, yes, there are people. $20, people online who do see sexual connotations in this fever dream of a song about her having sex with this guy every night secretly. Right. They're clearly having sex. I'm sorry, that's what she writes about. She just uses metaphors because she doesn't like to say it right out loud. But I'm going to get to something a lot deeper here because this is.

[A]

That's what she said.

[B]

Grinning like a devil. Okay, so here's the million dollar question. Who broke heaven? This is breakable heaven, but who broke heaven? Famously, in Revelations in Paradise Lost by John Milton and Revelations in the Bible, what was the war that occurred in heaven that broke it?

[A]

I don't read the Bible.

[B]

Lucifer. Oh, the fallen angel who is Satan.

[A]

He didn't, like, break heaven. I feel like heaven's still intact if you believe in it, you know?

[B]

Yes, but the point is that that was the war in heaven. This is the devil.

[A]

The person who said, if you had just said good omens, I would have instantly known.

[B]

Ah, well, the point is, the minute he said he. She says that he's grinning like the devil.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

This is the broken part of broken heaven.

[A]

Omg.

[B]

Right? She. This relationship just got broke.

[A]

She got real.

[B]

Yeah, she got real. But the point is, he doesn't want to get real. He has her. That's the point. Why is he grinning like the devil?

[A]

Because men are the devil.

[B]

Because he got her to fall in love with her. With him by just treating her terribly.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

But the point is, she knew this from the start. Bad boy, shiny toy with a price. You know, I bought it. She paid the price. She knew she was going to pay the price. She fell in love with this guy anymore. But look, why is Taylor writing these songs? These tongs are cautionary tales for her audience.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

In my view, she's not telling people to do what she's doing.

[A]

Wait, no, no, not right. Sorry. I was too caught up thinking about how bad everything is. I don't think these are cautionary tales. I think it's just exposition for the sake of writing about exposition. Like, it's. People write songs to kind of express themselves.

[B]

I mean, does she want her fans to do what she did?

[A]

But that's a secondary concern. Right? I mean, if I'm writing a song. Unless it's, like, Hot to Go by Chapel Rowan, I'm not really writing it with the fans in mind.

[B]

Right, but that Taylor is.

[A]

I know, but she's also writing it. I mean, you can't possibly just write something completely with the fans in mind. But, like, it's. You have to kind of employ a certain, like, you know, you have to speak from the heart first.

[B]

This entire song is very metaphorical, and you mentioned the fact that people think it's Joel.

[A]

I don't know. Maybe in Sweden. Maybe Shell Drake and Shell Bach. If those even are their real names. Don't speak from the heart. But in my opinion, songs of hers aren't cautionary tales.

[B]

Well, this is where we differ. I hope they're cautionary tales, because otherwise.

[A]

Explain it better next time.

[B]

But the point is, she fell in love. This is a summer romance. Okay, so here is my cautionary tale to you. She. She don't fall in love with a guy in the course of a summer. Don't. Don't. You don't know.

[A]

You just don't get it.

[B]

You don't know in three months that it's love and it isn't just infatuation and sexual lust. And that's just the world, the way the world is. And she knows better. Here you don't get. The point is she likes.

[A]

He started dating at mit.

[B]

It is true.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But the point here is I. Here's why I think it's. Her songs are cautionary tales because I think they are, in fact, reverse hero's journey stories. Okay, well, then we've discussed what the hero's journey is. The hero's journey is where you start in the normal world as a normal person, and you have a crazy town, you have a call to action that pulls you into the special world. You go through trials and tribulations, you learn a lesson, you gain knowledge. With great power comes great responsibility, or there's no place like home, and you go back to the normal world.

[A]

Inside out is a really good example of this now that I'm thinking about it. So watch Inside out if you do really want a good example of, like, what an actual like you do. They go to a different place physically, and then they return, as does Dorothy.

[B]

In the wizard of Oz. That's the point. The black and white world, even Soul.

[A]

Soul is a great movie. We watched that in philosophy class.

[B]

But the return with the message. Yeah, that's the return of. With the elixir. Right. This is the point that Joseph Campbell made when he examined the Hero's journey stories, which were the same he discovered in every different culture. It's true, is that the hero gains knowledge, but he has to bring it back or she and.

[A]

Or they. Oh, my God. And he looked at me when he said she. Like this was some sort of favor he was doing. I think I'm only like, oh, my God. God. Yeah, but they won't know.

[B]

They now know whatever because of the. Whatever condition that my daughter is apparently in.

[A]

What do you mean condition?

[B]

The one that.

[A]

Oh, my God. And it's because I'm on my period, only I get to do that. You can't do that.

[B]

Well, I'm just saying, if you even.

[A]

Say the word period around a woman, that's automatically a fine that you're gonna get in the mail from Planned Parenting.

[B]

All I'm gonna say is that for you, this is the equation equivalent of your fever dream. And you have been spouting Fever dream nonsense throughout this entire.

[A]

What the hell? I've been spouting gospel truths, boy, let me tell you this.

[B]

This has been.

[A]

He doesn't understand. Yeah, we get it.

[B]

One of the most slanderous podcasts. But what I'm saying is this song, like some of her other songs, are Reverse Hero's Journey. She doesn't start out in the normal world as a normal person.

[A]

She starts out as crazy.

[B]

She starts out as the famous Taylor Swift.

[A]

Right.

[B]

She then leaves the special world and steps into the normal world of dating, where she's just a regular human being who happens to be very into her feelings and kind of goes from 0 to 10.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Very quickly.

[A]

She should get that checked out. She crashes and burns, crashes and burns.

[B]

This is what's happening in the normal world. Then she comes back out to the special world, which is the stage where.

[A]

She'S singing, and she writes a song about it.

[B]

And she writes a song about it to deliver the elixir.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To her fans. To her fans, this is not what you do. This will lead to a crash and burn.

[A]

That's where you're wrong. I think the elixir is for the exes and says, you know what? I'm. That I'm Taylor Swift. You mess with me, you get a song.

[B]

Don't get me wrong.

[A]

And it's an evil song.

[B]

That's another piece of brilliance of what she is doing. Yes, she is saying you men, but.

[A]

I also think that that's. That the true opposite of the Hero's Journey would necessarily have to be one where the information isn't for the public completely. It's for her. She's learned something about herself, and she doesn't necessarily have to share. She shares it because she writes songs. But I think that the elixir that she's bringing back is the knowledge that, yikes. Dating is yikes.

[B]

Well, to be clear.

[A]

And she doesn't. She's. She's taking things, I think, a little healthier with Travis. It seems they don't follow each other on Instagram, but I don't know, who am I to judge? And I'm sure when this gets released, something will have happened, but, you know, maybe not. I mean, I think you always tout how she never learns from her mistakes and she keeps dating these bad men. But honestly, I think that. That. I think that she.

[B]

Well, I don't keep telling that she writes songs in which she says, I have this fake news. I have this thing.

[A]

Anyway, he keeps saying how she makes.

[B]

This older, but just never Was.

[A]

I think that she is slowly learning from her mistakes.

[B]

I agree. I said that from the get go. Yes, she is. Of course she's learning from her mistakes.

[A]

But I think that's the elixir. I think that's the main elixir. I don't think it's so much a warning as it is like just advice, you know, like, it's not like cautionary. I don't think her tales are cautionary. I think they're just.

[B]

This is a crash and burn.

[A]

Yeah, but this is also normal.

[B]

It's a crash and burn.

[A]

But in the. But that's only when you go to the special world. That's where you get the kind of harrowing stuff. But in the normal world, it's just like, I don't know, sometimes this happens. Sometimes you date men, sometimes.

[B]

I'm just saying she's reversing it. That's all I'm saying. I agree with you. Look, all too well. Is a slam on Fake Jake slash Rake Jake. I don't. Yes, this is an empowerment for her that, yes, she has a way of regaining her power by writing songs about the guys who mistreat her. I don't think there's any question about that.

[A]

That's what she said. I just want to disagree a little bit with you because it makes for good ratings to do.

[B]

Now the truth comes out. Anyway. This is a masterpiece of the song because it's wildly entertaining.

[A]

It is.

[B]

And one of the things she does, by the way, that a lot of other people. People don't is when she writes a total downer of a relationship. She just puts it to the most upbeat music.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

She writes a whole bunch of songs like that. And that's kind of amazing. But the point is this is a very deep song. There's a lot going on in this song. The song has foreshadow. It has the ironic twist ending. Right. She's definitely gonna get. This is her being hit by the ironic karma. Right? You go out with the bad, bad boy. You pay the price.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You're going to pay the price.

[A]

You're gonna pay the price.

[B]

You're gonna pay the price. And she paid the price.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the bridge, you know, so what's homework?

[A]

What's homework? What's homework? We have to give homework the homework.

[B]

Is this the next time you are writing something or on an interview, whatever it is, your opening has to be as bold a statement as you are comfortable making on that topic.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And the opening is not the place to be understated.

[A]

Do not be understated. And if you write a whole goddamn book and you're understated, I will come for you, so help me God. Especially if they ever make children read it in AP lit, because I'm telling you. And we had. That was summer reading, too, man. I don't want to spend my summer reading that. Everybody's. Everybody's bored of me talking about this. But I just want to say something. Emma, whoever you are, if that's even your real name, freaking coming for you on Twitter, man.

[B]

I don't think you're coming for Emma because Emma's a fictional character. But thank you.

[A]

Thank you, and goodbye. He looked at me like I should do something else, so I just did that. I don't know what that bit was. I don't know why I sent that out.

[B]

For the exciting episode 10.

[A]

Yes.