Seeing 'Red': Why Metaphors Are the Most Important Viral Storyteller Trick You Must Master | #8

Summary

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Decoding Taylor Swift: A Storytelling Revolution

Episode #8: Seeing 'Red': Why Metaphors Are the Most Important Viral Storyteller Trick You Must Master
Hosts: Joe Romm & Toni Romm
Date: August 19, 2025

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Overview

In this engaging, playful, and insightful episode, Joe and Toni Romm dive deep into Taylor Swift's "Red," exploring how metaphors drive the power of storytelling—not just in Swift’s work, but in all forms of communication. Their main argument: mastering metaphor is the single most valuable trick for crafting memorable, viral content, whether you’re a songwriter, activist, student, or TikToker.

With frequent asides, intergenerational banter, and plenty of humor, Joe and Toni break down the craft of metaphor, highlight Swift’s lyrical genius, and provide actionable advice for leveraging metaphor in your own stories.

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Key Discussions & Insights

Why Metaphor Matters (03:33, 07:59, 21:14)

• Definition & Significance
  • Metaphors help explain unfamiliar ideas by relating them to known experiences (08:01).
  • “Metaphors are a shortcut,” says Joe, referencing their role in cognition and memory (21:19).
• A Tool for Viral Communication
  • Metaphors lodge stories into our minds by engaging our senses and emotions (08:31).
  • As Toni says: “Metaphors aren’t just a way to explain something. They’re a way for your brain to become stronger.” (62:41)

Metaphors vs. Similes vs. Extended Metaphors (05:27, 09:48, 10:29)

• Similes use ‘like’ or ‘as’, metaphors don’t:
  • Toni: “Similes are a bit weaker… you have to kind of spell it out” (05:41).
• Extended Metaphor & Allegory:
  • Joe: “Animal Farm is an allegory, which is just a long collection of metaphors” (09:22).
  • Extended metaphors hold a whole song or story together, e.g., Swift's “The Great War” or “Red” (09:48).

Taylor Swift’s Mastery With Metaphor (11:09, 35:09)

• Example Lyric:
  • “Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street / Faster than the wind, passionate as sin, ending so suddenly” (05:12-06:05)
  • Joe: “This song, of any song I’ve ever heard, has more metaphors… metaphor after metaphor.” (34:15)
• Connecting Emotions to Color:
  • Taylor (clip): “This song is about correlating different emotions to different colors… most of the emotions I’d felt… were red emotions.” (35:09)
• Memorable Trick:
  • Joe: “Searing it in their minds with one color is a very poignant way of doing it” (56:37)
  • Toni on repetition: “She’s just trying to figure out different ways of explaining to people: I cannot get this guy out of my head.” (53:16)

Science & Psychology of Metaphor (13:47, 21:14)

• Modes of Learning & Communication:
  • Three styles: visual, auditory, kinesthetic (13:47).
  • Metaphors help you reach audiences with different preferences.
• Pattern Matching as Intelligence:
  • “Pattern matching… is one of the highest forms of intelligence. That’s what Aristotle said: the greatest thing by far is to be a master of metaphor.” (22:40)
• Memory Enhancement:
  • “Because the listener has to do extra mental processing, metaphors are more likely to be remembered.” (63:23)

Metaphors in Pop Music (30:10)

• Joe and Toni riff through famous metaphorical song titles—like “Blackbird,” “Blowing in the Wind,” “Chandelier,” and “Wrecking Ball”—and jokingly assign them bathroom-related interpretations before returning to serious discussion (30:10-33:34).

Humor & Intergenerational Banter

• Frequent, lighthearted arguments about metaphor, driving, and who’s responsible for car crashes (“I just want to envision my daughter driving a new Maserati 18 miles an hour,” Joe jokes. 38:39)
• Toni ribbing Joe for “dad energy,” Joe poking fun at Toni’s college essay opinions.
• Recurring cheeky asides about “sending money” or the value of podcast sponsorships from Metaphor Inc. or the letter 'M' (20:00, 20:12).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Joe: “The greatest thing by far is to be a master of metaphor.” (22:40)
• Toni: “Metaphors aren’t just a way to explain something. They’re a way for your brain to become stronger.” (62:41)
• Taylor Swift (clip): “…this song is about correlating different emotions to different colors.” (35:09)
• Joe (about “Red”): “This song…has more metaphors. It’s like, 17 consecutive metaphors. The entire song is crazy, man.” (34:15)
• Joe: “If Metaphor got paid a penny every billion times it was used, it’d be almost as rich as Taylor Swift!” (20:17)
• Toni: “His love—Rake Jake—is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street. Your love, Rake Jake, is a dead end street. But it’s not any dead end street. I had a new Maserati, ‘cause I’m a new Maserati. She is the damn new Maserati.” (59:29)
• Joe on memory: “The smarter you get, the more connections you get. So, if you have one large body of knowledge, a good way to learn another body is to find analogies between all the stuff.” (23:16)

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Deep Dive: Lyric Analysis & Application

Breaking Down the Lyrics (36:25–58:37)

• The hosts read through “Red” lyric by lyric, unpacking metaphor after metaphor, often in dramatic fashion.
• Key metaphors and similes analyzed:
  • Driving a new Maserati down a dead end street (risk, speed, doomed love) (36:25)
  • Faster than the wind (intensity) (36:49)
  • Passionate as sin (danger and allure) (36:49)
  • Free fall and autumn (loss, transition) (41:01)
  • Blue, dark gray, red (associating emotions with colors) (44:19)
  • Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you never met (the impossibility of letting go) (51:02)
• The song ends on a powerful twist: The first line is “Loving him…” and the last is “His love…” marking a shift in blame and perspective (58:42).

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Practical Advice, Tips, and “Homework”

• For Songwriters, Storytellers, and Content Creators:
  • Use metaphors to make your message visual, multi-sensory, and memorable.
  • “If you put a metaphor in your TikTok, it will stand out” (62:13).
• For Students:
  • Avoid cliché metaphors in college essays (“Be original!”) (11:58, 61:54), but use metaphor elsewhere to paint vivid pictures.
• Homework:
  • “Write out this song and think about all the metaphors here” (64:05).
  • Practice creating metaphors for your own experiences to strengthen memory and communication skills (62:41).
• On Memory:
  • Metaphors create “extra connections” in the brain, strengthening recall and understanding (63:17).

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Timestamps of Important Segments

• [03:33] – Introduction to the episode’s focus on metaphor
• [07:59] – Definition of metaphor/simile; why they matter for storytelling
• [13:47] – The science of learning styles and metaphor
• [21:14] – Pattern matching and why metaphor is the “shortcut” to memory
• [30:10] – Famous metaphorical song titles discussed
• [35:09] – Taylor Swift clip on color and emotion in “Red”
• [36:25–58:37] – “Red” lyric breakdown, metaphor by metaphor
• [59:29] – The final chorus and what it signals about love, blame, and transformation
• [62:41] – Advice on using metaphor, mental exercise benefits
• [63:23] – Metaphor and memory: what the research says

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Key Takeaways

• Mastering metaphor is essential for memorable, viral, and emotionally resonant storytelling.
• Taylor Swift’s “Red” is a metaphor masterclass, combining images, emotions, and narrative fluency.
• Use metaphor intentionally, in various forms—lyrics, essays, content—to make your message powerful and sticky.
• Metaphors boost memory, learning, and connection with all types of audiences.

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“The greatest thing by far is to be a master of metaphor.”
— Joe Romm (22:40, channeling Aristotle)

“Metaphors aren’t just a way to explain something. They’re a way for your brain to become stronger.”
— Toni Romm (62:41)

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Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Joe Rome and I'm his daughter Toni.

[B]

Welcome to Decoding Taylor Swift where you'll learn the storytelling tools Swift uses that make her a modern day Shakespeare, but.

[A]

Can make you a better communicator so you can drive your mission and build your tribe.

[B]

Rolling Stone magazine put both me and Swift on its list of 100 people changing America. So I know that the most successful social change makers are the best storytellers.

[A]

This podcast will transform how you think about Swift's songs and give you the life changing tools to lead, connect and change the world.

[B]

Alrighty.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Welcome to episode eight.

[A]

Episode eight.

[B]

Man, this is going to be.

[A]

What's the Star wars equivalent?

[B]

No, you keep asking me that.

[A]

Hold on.

[B]

We're not getting into Star wars equivalents. We are going to talk about TV series. No, we're just going to erase all this stuff.

[A]

The Last Jedi.

[B]

The last.

[A]

The last Jedi.

[B]

All right, so, wow.

[A]

Welcome in. I feel like the opening is like Pavlov's dogging me so I can like get into a mind where I can do it like this. And every time I hear it, I'm going to feel like I'm on a podcast now.

[B]

Well, I'm glad that you're getting into this because the audience is getting into it. We are getting listeners.

[A]

Yay. Yay.

[B]

We are.

[A]

Thank you guys. We appreciate you. We have been getting, sending you hugs and high fives. We're like, like air hugs that are consensual.

[B]

We're bouncing a little around on the top of the music. Near the top of the music category. I guess we are of the. Of Apple music podcast.

[A]

Yeah, we're pretty popular. No big deal.

[B]

I think we're around top three. One thing is clear from the metrics, people are listening through the whole episode.

[A]

I know. Thank you guys.

[B]

We're really excited about that.

[A]

Interesting. I suppose.

[B]

And you know, I think the ends of our episodes are some of the best parts, don't you?

[A]

Yeah, I think the. The very end. But. But you can't understand them until you listen the whole way through. So you can't, you can't really skip to the end. You have to just listen the whole way through.

[B]

No, we build up to the ending of what, for instance, the song. Today we're gonna talk about Red.

[A]

We're gonn.

[B]

The title song from the album Red.

[A]

So true.

[B]

And we.

[A]

Oh, wait, I was gonna say something really quick, but. But the only, the only thing that I guess could be better is, you know, if you guys like the podcast, feel free to Rate us. But only do it if you're gonna do a 4 or 5. Pretty please. AP rules only.

[B]

All right. That is from my daughter. And I'm here to say, tell your friends.

[A]

Yeah man, tell your friends.

[B]

Share this. Right? Get the word out on this.

[A]

I mean we're trying to be hip with the kids. Tell your children friends if you have friends that are kids and if your parents.

[B]

I know you don't talk to other parents, but if you did, tell them. This is like I talk to a lot of parents and they really like seeing the father daughter connection. They like to hear a parent's perspective on Taylor and why maybe their kids are so into it. And again, why should they be? Yes, she's a modern day Shakespeare. That's one of the. She knows what she's doing and she is using all of these viral memory tricks that. That are the key to being a successful wow communicator. And today we'll be talking about the most important of all the viral memory tricks.

[A]

Yes, we will. We will be talking about metaphor.

[B]

Metaphors. And we've talked about it a bit before, but here we're going to make it a major focus.

[A]

A bit B metaphor and.

[B]

But we're gonna start as is our new.

[A]

Norm.

[B]

Norm is get the opening. Get a key lyric from the song. Just so everyone's on the same page about this song Red, which peaked at, I believe, number six on the Billboard chart. It peaked at number two on the Country Hot 100 country chart. And it stayed there a very long time. It actually set a record, I think.

[A]

Yeah. Red was kind of a crossover album. There's a lot of country esque portions of the album, a lot of reminiscent, you know, instruments and instrumentals. But it was kind of seen as her first sort of transition solidly into pop.

[B]

Yeah. And she was working with Max Martin.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And this has some of her greatest songs. Most notably.

[A]

All too well.

[B]

All too well.

[A]

But she re recorded the 10 minute version, so.

[B]

So the original though Rolling Stone thought it was her best song when she came out with her. So let's play the opening two lines of this just to remind people of this masterpiece.

[A]

Yeah, that's pretty chill, I guess. Pretty cool.

[B]

That is intense. That's a bunch of metaphors.

[A]

Hashtag rich people eras.

[B]

Yes. Maseratis Driving a new. So loving hand is send us money.

[A]

When you get a Maserati.

[B]

And this is a key point. There are two things we're gonna talk about today. We'll talk about metaphors and similes.

[A]

Similes which are A type of metaphor, Right.

[B]

Similes are slightly weaker where you say, use the word like or as, as. So loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street, right? It's not. It's not.

[A]

Because you kind of have to spell it out. So the connection is weaker because you're not. You're not just saying, like, loving him is a blue sunrise. It's beautiful. Like, you have to be like, it's like that. It's like that.

[B]

Right. And that's the difference. Similes are a bit weaker. Now she then has a couple of metaphors. Faster than the wind, right? So she's saying this car is going faster than the wind.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Which. Which I've seen debated on someone. Someone actually posted what the average wind velocity of her hometown was, which is like 17 miles an hour. And I'm like, no, you're missing the point. This is not. It's not comparing the model. Right. To the average wind speed where she grew up. What is really fast wind. So someone else is like, oh, the greatest wind velocity ever measured in a hurricane was in Australia, and It was like 253 miles an hour. Okay. So now we're getting somewhere.

[A]

Anyway, he's looking up, like, wind speeds. You have to, like, send us money so we can, like, take him on a vacation. I'm just to, like, an institution for research.

[B]

I research the songs. I do.

[A]

Genuinely. It's a little concerning, but it's okay. No, no, it's okay.

[B]

As you know, I'm a scientist, so I do get into that.

[A]

Allegedly.

[B]

But anyway, the point is, fast in the wind is meant to be really fast. Not slightly faster than the average wind speed where she grew up. Right. It's not 18 miles an hour, because, like, that would not be what imagine.

[A]

Any meteorologists confirm, Submit to our subreddit, which maybe we'll have.

[B]

And then she says a very nice other metaphor, passionate as sin, which is actually kind of a semi metaphor because she is having sin with this guy.

[A]

The fuck? Why is he being so weird?

[B]

Okay, well, this is Jake Gyllenhaal.

[A]

He's crazy. This is Jake, right?

[B]

This is hashtag faketake, Hashtag Rakejake.

[A]

Rakejake.

[B]

So, yes, when she says passionate is sin, she's actually being literal. She is, but she's comparing the car drive. Okay, let's talk a little bit more about metaphors and why they're so important before we dive into this song.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And we've already talked about some of the metaphors.

[A]

I suppose. We have.

[B]

And so Metaphors are trying to relate to someone an idea that they may not know about or be familiar with by comparing to something that they are familiar with.

[A]

Nod, nod.

[B]

And so it's natural in a song like this, you know, she's like, you don't know what I felt like. I can't convey to you literally what I felt like. So I'm going to use a bunch of metaphors. So you get the feeling that I felt.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's what she is doing here. The point is we're going to focus on metaphors here, but ultimately we're trying to help you become a better communicator in every different kind of situation. Right. Whether you're applying for a job, whether you're writing an essay, whether you're writing a tweet or putting together a TikTok, you can use all these techniques.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And so metaphors are hard.

[A]

That's the other thing is being a writer, you know, you gotta practice. Writing is not. It's not just a talent, it's a skill, you know?

[B]

Right.

[A]

Muscle.

[B]

Yeah. And one of the points that, for instance, George Orwell makes.

[A]

George Orwell mentioned. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Oh, man. And you know, he is a master of metaphor too. And in fact, you know, he wrote 1984.

[A]

1984 is just a bit. Well, Animal Farm is a big metaphor.

[B]

Yeah. Animal Farm is a entire collection of metaphors. The point is, like you can make a whole book that is where the pigs are metaphorically. The Russians.

[A]

Yeah. You could if you wanted to. And he did.

[B]

And he did. And the different animals all are different. It's an allegory. Right. The Animal Farm is an allegory. But an allegory.

[A]

An allegory is just like a really, really, really, really long metaphor.

[B]

Yeah, it's a long collection of metaphors. Right. And that gets to another issue, which is the extended, which is a whole different category which we will talk about extended metaphors. Instead of like saying loving you is red or loving him is like driving new Maserati down a dead end street, you're actually going to make the whole song about, let's say the Great War, one of her songs, where you're going to. Every phrase in the song is going to build towards one metaphor, which is this relationship is like World War I.

[A]

Right. A lot of college essays are extended metaphors, which honestly, I've heard said is just a tad cliche. And, you know, just. Just as a little tip or a trick, you know, you don't have to do too much. Right. You know you can. You can utilize all of the figures of speech. Right. Don't just focus on one whenever you're doing, you know, a piece on yourself.

[B]

I think that's one of the most important points we're making here, is that we're covering metaphors here. But we've hit metaphors earlier. Right. We have the famous line, because, darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Which is antithesis. Right. We're placing those two phrases in sharp contrast.

[A]

Right.

[B]

But both of those are. One of them is metaphor. Darling, I'm a nightmare.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Dressed like a daydream.

[A]

Whoa, whoa.

[B]

So she's combined a metaphor and a similar. Similar together in one of her most famous lines. Similar.

[A]

Yeah, well. And. And you always have to remember that each of these figures have different strengths and weaknesses. Right. Like, extended metaphors are better for very specific points and very specific emotions and feelings that you want to capture, which is why, you know, maybe using it in a college essay where you're trying to. To convey a whole piece of yourself, it's not always going to work. But, you know, at the same time, smaller metaphors are. Are. You know, they're quick. They. They end fast. They're not as useful for. Well, y. The.

[B]

What?

[A]

I. I'm just not a fan. I'm just a hater. I'm just a hater of extended metaphor college essays.

[B]

Oh, man.

[A]

Well, I'm sorry. I'm really sorry.

[B]

Some of the greatest, most memorable things. The famous psalm, the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want. That whole thing is an extended metaphor.

[A]

Yeah. I've never read the Bible, so personally, I don't identify with that.

[B]

There you go. Well, how about Bad Romance by Lady Gaga?

[A]

She's just talking about a romance that's bad.

[B]

Well, she's comparing love to bad romance novels and bad Roman movies. Right. That's what she's doing there when she's talking about Rear Windows. Double entendre.

[A]

I like extended metaphors. I think they're great in songs.

[B]

Oh, okay.

[A]

I just don't like them in college essays. Well, unfortunately, my advice, as somebody who only got into, like, you know, their one dream college, but. Well, that's kind of it, since you're. Don't listen to me, actually, because, like, I didn't do too much, guys.

[B]

I didn't do too much except get some pies.

[A]

Kind of a random kid. They're going to throw pies at me now.

[B]

But you're going to be writing a bunch of college essays, so you're going to have to figure that one out. So let's talk a little bit more about exactly why metaphors are so powerful. So this has to do with trying to communicate to the broadest number of people. Right. There is an idea that was put forth by the people who created neuro linguistic programming, which you may or may not have heard of, but you should know something about it if you're going to communicate with people and try to persuade them and be memorable. And it basically says that people have three different ways of acquiring knowledge. Right. There's visually, they see it. Auditory, they hear it. Or third kinesthetic. It's through action or through representations of action.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You'll notice ChatGPT is not on the list.

[B]

No, no. And ChatGPT again, we dissed it I think last time. Do not you. If you use ChatGPT writing is.

[A]

Don't write with Chat GPT. Because the problem is is metaphors are supposed to convey real emotions. And at the end of the day, even if ChatGPT writes something and you're like, wow, this is a pretty accurate conveyal. It's just not from a human. And something George Orwell mentioned twice. George Orwell in his book. In his. Well, not his book, his essay. Why I Write lays out four key points and tenants in writing. One of them is don't use a metaphor that you hear in everyday language. Right. Like toe the line. He was peacocking. I feel so blue. Now in a song, it's a bit different if you're trying to do a whole pattern with colors. But if you're just writing those, it's just cliche and people. It loses the. The reaction, the visual. It just loses that. Right? Yeah. Nobody knows what the hell toeing the line actually looks like. Right?

[B]

Right. And they don't even know if it's toe.

[A]

It's like a sailing term in the.

[B]

Line or to W. Right. Ing. Yeah, but no, it actually is. Well, some people would say it's toe. Toeing the line, which is to say keeping your feet in front of. Which is a mix and not crossing over it.

[A]

Right. Well. Which is. Which is a mix up from another metaphor, which is like you have to keep yourself in line, which is, you know, so one toe out of line. But toeing the line is. It's about boating.

[B]

Yeah. I think that's another toeing the line. The. The.

[A]

A lot of toes on a lot of lines. It's kind of a freaky reference. But it's okay. We forgive.

[B]

There is. And we're not like toe fetishists.

[A]

I don't think so. I just like, I don't know, Just.

[B]

Want to be clear about that. Yeah.

[A]

This is a toe fetish.

[B]

Free space to come back to the, the actionable point. You may use a combination of those. Auditory, visual and kinesthetic.

[A]

Yeah, man, have fun with it.

[B]

But some people, most people prefer have a leaning towards one. I, for instance, I'm a very auditory person, in case you haven't figured that out. Yeah, I'm very into words. I know the words of a lot of songs.

[A]

Oh, that's beautiful.

[B]

But I'm not a visual person. I'm not a person who can close their eyes and visualize an image.

[A]

And I, I'm, you know, good at all three. So that's, you know.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

Well, I'm just kidding. I'm pretty visual. I think.

[B]

I think you're visual.

[A]

I have, I have yet to prove it to him, but I swear to God, I have a weak photographic memory because I got, I got. When I got tested for adhd, they said I had like the highest score on the visual, the retention.

[B]

I don't think that's surprising. My mother was an extremely visual person.

[A]

Not to brag, brag, not to brag.

[B]

But yeah. A little story about my mother. I talked about my father last time, but my mother lor drop mot really the brilliant one in the family. My late mother, her father died when she was 17 and it was the year 1941. She was the oldest child. She could finish high school. She never went to college because she had to go to work to support the family. Now this was 1941. It was World War II. The young men, by and large, were getting drafted and off to war. And so they actually wanted women in the workforce back then. It was a unique period. So they gave.

[A]

Unlike now, to be honest. Unlike now.

[B]

There you go. They gave you aptitude tests. She took an aptitude test and she had incredible visual capability.

[A]

Omg, you and I kin.

[B]

My grandmother, she could look at a set of blueprints. Two dimensional diagram they have seen. And she could visualize the whole building right away.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

I don't know if I could do a whole building.

[A]

Goddamn.

[B]

She became a draftsperson at a military base. She rose to be a head draftsperson. Later she ended up being the top blueprint checking group at General Electric.

[A]

Damn.

[B]

And later she became a kitchen designer.

[A]

Yeah, and then call her a military woman because she was serving.

[B]

There you go. She was a Rosie the Riveter. And then she taught interior design at my local I lived in a small town and we had a very nice community college nearby, so that for 20 years. The point is, my mother is super visual. I'm not visual at all. It skipped a generation, as these things do. And now here you are, visual.

[A]

It's weird that things skip generations. Maybe I'll learn about that. That's odd.

[B]

But the point is that even though I'm an auditory person, I have to communicate and connect with people who are visual and kinesthetic.

[A]

He's doing such a good charity work for us poor, poor visual people.

[B]

Charity work. It's my look. You're a vision for us plebeians. A visual person has to communicate to the auditorium.

[A]

Well, and you haven't talked about this, but you have aphantasia, which means, like, you physically can't really.

[B]

I don't visualize things. I have tried.

[A]

I've tried to visualize. Talk to somebody who's like, aphantasia. Yeah. Sad face.

[B]

It is sad face. Because, by the way, if you can visualize. That is a great power. That is something athletes do. I mean, the great athletes visualize the golf ball going in. They visualize the basketball going in, or whatever your sport is, skiing, Whatever it is. If you can visualize the thing, that turns out to be almost as good as training.

[A]

Right. Like, for me, I visualize Pedro Pascal. I just am like, you know, if I'm taking a scary test, he's just sitting in the corner giving me a thumbs up. And that's beautiful. And you can do that, too.

[B]

It's not the scary version of Pedro Pascal in Last of Us.

[A]

That's not a scary version. That's a really cool version to me. All right, well, nothing Pedro Pascal could do would be scary.

[B]

Well, I'm not.

[A]

I'm sure he could do something.

[B]

I'm not going to. Screw that.

[A]

I hope he's not an axe.

[B]

Can I just say, Pedro Pascal could.

[A]

Be a lizard person.

[B]

I am. He's just too, like. I am giving props to Pedro Pascal for his alliteration. That's on his parents.

[A]

Yeah. Good job, parents.

[B]

Good job, parents.

[A]

I mean, even though, like, his. He has, like, two more middle names that the industry just cut out.

[B]

Yeah. We're just. This is. This is our callback to the last episode, which was, as you may remember, sponsored by alliteration.

[A]

Sponsored by alliteration.

[B]

This episode sponsored by metaphor.

[A]

Wow. Sponsored by the letter M For metaphor.

[B]

Yeah, and metaphor.

[A]

Call up Sesame Street. They got canceled.

[B]

And by the way, that is big bucks for us, because metaphor is Totally rich and loaded.

[A]

It's pretty loaded. Metaphor was a billionaire. It'd be Warren Buffett.

[B]

I mean, seriously, if alliteration was a.

[A]

Billionaire, honestly, it'd probably be like Taylor Swift.

[B]

Metaphor got paid a penny for 1 billion times someone used a metaphor.

[A]

That's crazy, man.

[B]

It would be like.

[A]

Be like friggin.

[B]

It'd be almost as rich as Taylor Swift or.

[A]

So what would be Elon Musk?

[B]

It could be.

[A]

Probably be sending hate comments on Twitter. I feel like that should be a figure of speech.

[B]

So the point is that one easy way to be more visual in your expression is to use metaphors.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

And doesn't have to be strictly visual. It can be sounds too.

[B]

It can be sounds, it can be touch.

[A]

Right. Faster than the wind isn't just like a visual. You can kind of feel the wind whipping past you. We all know what that feels like.

[B]

That's all of the senses. Right. And in some sense, some of those senses are kinesthetic. Right. Fast in the wind brings in kinesthetic, brings in motion. So I just wanted to give a couple more points. Why. So one big reason metaphors are important is they are a powerful way of explaining things.

[A]

You think in metaphor, Right?

[B]

You think in metaphor.

[A]

For all you normal people like me.

[B]

Out there, it's a shortcut. It is a shortcut. It is one of the mental shortcuts that we talked about. Your brain uses mental shortcuts because A, it uses a lot of your metabolism, like 20 to 25% of the body's metabolism, and B, it's not big. Right. I mean, it's limited in size, of course, by the birth canal, famously.

[A]

And I said that.

[B]

So weirdly, the birth canal.

[A]

I don't know why we're keeping talking about this. Well, because I hated that bit.

[B]

Our entire. The least favorite bit we've done, evolutionary growth, was driven by the ability to have as big a brain as possible.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And that was limited by the birth canal. And that's why, unlike most Animals, it takes 18 years for us to grow up, because it takes all that time to get the brain up to full size and learn all the stuff you need to learn.

[A]

So true.

[B]

And because of that, we use all these shortcuts and one of these tricks. This is something that the famous biologist E.O. wilson said. The brain is forced to rely on tricks to enlarge memory and speed computation. And that's why we use things like metaphor for pattern matching. Right. That is one of the highest forms of intelligence is pattern matching. To be able to See how two different things have some similarities?

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

And that's what Aristotle said, the same thing. He said the greatest thing by far is to be a master of metaphor. So this is a shortcut that's very wired into us because stories and metaphors were developed during the hundred thousand years that our brains developed language. Right? So that evolution occurred at the same time we are programmed. And then, by the way, that's what neurons are, right? Neurons connect one thing to another thing to another thing. The smarter you get, the more you learn. More neurons, connections you get.

[A]

Right. They're like adding wires to like a circuit board. Right. They do new things.

[B]

Right. So if you have one large body of knowledge, a good way to learn another body of knowledge. Right. Is to find analogies between all the stuff.

[A]

You know, it's like you have, it's like, it's like you get a free wire to put between your brain and the thing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's a new connection.

[B]

So that's, that's why.

[A]

And that was a metaphor. And that was a metaphor, honey. And we just metaphored you. And that was beautiful.

[B]

Yeah. And I think that, that people should understand that. Yes. That's why you can't talk too much about metaphors and you can't think hard enough about putting them into what you use. And as I, as I said, oh.

[A]

My God, he's bringing up the teenage sex bit.

[B]

I am gonna bring up the teenage sex. See it on his computer story, in part, because as you know, when we talked in episode two, as you know.

[A]

Teenagers have bad sex about all too well.

[B]

It turns out that the big metaphor reveal of that song is what is the scarf? Right? And we learn the scarf reminds you of innocence. That's why he supposedly kept it. But the point is, yes, the scarf represented innocence because that song was really about teenage sex and her losing her innocence.

[A]

I'm putting up a wall between me and you right now. And you have free time to talk about what you want to talk about. And I will repress these memories, if that's okay with you.

[B]

I'm concerned about my 18 year old daughter who's gonna be heading to college and is trying to repress all of. Not think that will end well.

[A]

I just don't. And forgive me if this is kind of a crazy thing to say, but talking about teenage sex with my dad is, I guess not what I would, I guess, want ever.

[B]

But we're talking. Well, see, I hope your mother talked to you about it. That's all I'm saying. And if she did you know? You're covered. But we're not actually talking about teenage sex. We're just talking about the metaphor that uses teenage sex to compare it to sustainable development is like teenage sex. Everybody says they're doing it, but very few people are. And those who are aren't doing it very well. And that metaphor I used a long time ago. And this professor I wrote cold email. It was one of my famous cold emails. He wrote me back and said he remembered me saying this.

[A]

Yeah, we're gonna make this a little bit more bearable. Just a little bit more bearable.

[B]

All righty. There you go. Okay. So the point is that he told me that this was one of the most memorable things he's ever heard. And actually, I looked it up. He was there 25 years ago, and he remembered this 25 years later. So this was very memorable.

[A]

I don't know why adults are thinking about teenagers having sex so much, and I can't say that I love it.

[B]

Well, if we're going to think about Taylor Swift and her songs that she wrote when she was 22 for. I mean, when she was 22 released the red Album. These are songs about Jake Gyllenhaal. And guess what?

[A]

Guess who Jake Gyllenhaal was not a teen. He was, like, much older and. But she Boo him kind of a. Yikes.

[B]

So.

[A]

Well, when my friend turned 20, that's when she texted me that I beat teenage pregnancy, not 18. Anyway, moving on. Sorry I blacked out. What were you talking about?

[B]

I was talking about Adele and her use of metaphor. For instance, in her song Rolling in the Deep.

[A]

I was gonna say set fire to the rain.

[B]

Well, exactly. Set fire to the rain. You know, and I think.

[A]

Should we make an Adele podcast? I love her.

[B]

We could definitely do an Adele episode.

[A]

I'm so sorry. I'm just stressed.

[B]

But one of the points.

[A]

That's just how I yawn.

[B]

This is a very nice segue to the fact that all of the greatest songs.

[A]

Right. Is segue a metaphor? Did people create that as a metaphor, or is it called a segue because people think it gets you from one place to another?

[B]

No, no, that's a different segue. The segue vehicle.

[A]

Why did they. They must have known.

[B]

The segue vehicle is spelt S E, G, W, A Y.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

I mean, I know segue we're talking about, which is a segue from one thing to another.

[A]

I know. And you spell it like a U.

[B]

And an E. I have not looked up the etymology of segway. So you may want to do that.

[A]

I probably. It's French because it ends in a ue.

[B]

But there is an etymology to the word.

[A]

Oh, it's Italian. Very.

[B]

Where does it come? What does it come from?

[A]

It comes from the Italian, which says follows. But I wonder why they named it. Why did they name it Segue? Yes. Is a play on the word segue. I told you, I told you, I told you. I told you. I told you. I told you. David Common. Like, I may. Dean Common.

[B]

Dean Common, one of the great inventors of the last couple of decades, invented.

[A]

The segue because it represents a smooth transist. I told you. I told you, bro. I'm just like Dean Common. I kin Dean Common now, man. He's my dude. Dean Common. Sponsor us. We're sponsored by Segways both edition this episode. Not sponsored by Segway, but sponsored by Segue.

[B]

Well, and the word metaphor, by the way, also means carry or transfer.

[A]

Is that why Mark Zuckerberg named it meta?

[B]

Well, meta means over, right? When someone's being meta, they're kind of standing over everything.

[A]

Meta four is over. Four.

[B]

No, no, over the number four bear. So it's like carry something over. So we're transferring. Right. That's what a metaphor does, is it's transferring knowledge from one domain into another.

[A]

Domain, from the number three to the number four.

[B]

Now I just want to.

[A]

That's why it's called metaphor.

[B]

We gotta dive into Taylor quickly. But I want to just let people know that some of the greatest songs of all time.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

I mean, first of all, I don't think there's any great song that doesn't have metaphors in it, but many of the greatest songs.

[A]

What about the Happy Birthday song? Everybody sings that. Probably the most popular song that there's, like, around for a while.

[B]

I mean, I'm not gonna call it a great song.

[A]

That's horrible, man. It's like a top 10 song for me.

[B]

I don't know. It's a top 10 song in the way Baby Shark is. And after the 30th or 40th, you've heard it, it kind of gets a little annoying and no one wants to sing it.

[A]

So you're saying that people's birthdays are useless and nobody wants to sing about them?

[B]

I don't think that's horrible.

[A]

We need to celebrate people. We need to get back. And in our society, we are divided right now, and I think we need to get back to a place where we can just celebrate people's birthdays.

[B]

All right, let's get.

[A]

And that's the beauty of the song. It unites what would otherwise be.

[B]

Well, I agree with you. And by the way, yes, it's very Taylor Swift esque in the. In the sense that some people love.

[A]

It and other people hate it.

[B]

Right. So the happy birthday, the most viral things are both loved and hated because the people who love it love it and the people who hate it like to hate on it. Right. That's how.

[A]

And then again, that is how loving and hating works.

[B]

It is. And that is in fact, kind of one of the themes of this song, which you're about to get to. But I just want to name a few songs that famous people wrote with metaphorical titles. Like the Beatles wrote Blackbird, which is also about racial equality and freedom during the civil rights movement, which we saw Beyonce perform.

[A]

And that was pretty cool.

[B]

She recorded Blackbird. In fact, she opens the Blackbird.

[A]

She does.

[B]

She opened the show. She opened coverage. Spoilers.

[A]

Spoilers for a Beyonce concert if you haven't looked up trigger warning. Spoilers.

[B]

But you definitely want. And she covers other songs, but she covers Jolene.

[A]

She only sings Blackbird. That's the song.

[B]

And then she comes on stage, sings.

[A]

Blackbird and that's $800 and leaves. And that's what ticket matters. Masterpiece to our country.

[B]

No great song, but Bob Dylan loved metaphors. Things like Blowing in the Wind.

[A]

Sure. About farts. Famously.

[B]

We. We famously in. In. Let's see, in episode one, we did refer reference like a Rolling Stone.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And that's maybe his.

[A]

About poop.

[B]

That's a metaphor you had. We mentioned Adele.

[A]

Rolling in the Deep. Famously. Also about poop.

[B]

We did Chandelier by Sia.

[A]

That one's a little harder to spin, I think. Diarrhea, perhaps.

[B]

Katy Perry, Firework.

[A]

That's definitely about diarrhea.

[B]

Elton John, Rocket Man.

[A]

That's certainly about diarrhea.

[B]

Yeah. Oh, they even have Taylor Swift red on this list.

[A]

Oh, that's the type of shit that you do not want.

[B]

Oh. The list also has strangely, Nirvana Smells like Teen Spirit. That's just pee, which we talked about in episode two because of course, Taylor references the song because the scarf smells like her. But her happened to be teen. Teen Spirit.

[A]

A little bit problematic. Jakey.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then you got Ring of Fire.

[B]

We had. We had Ring of Fire by John.

[A]

Also about farts.

[B]

We've got Rihanna's Umbrella.

[A]

That's definitely.

[B]

Oh, what a great song. Yes. We've got Lady Gaga. Poker Face.

[A]

When you're trying to fart and you can't let anyone know.

[B]

No, that's not what is a song. But. But that's what Billy Joel's We Didn't Start the Fire was because they couldn't fart, and therefore he couldn't start the fire.

[A]

I think that one's actually just referencing a bunch of pop culture and trying to bring it together.

[B]

Now. The Doors Light my fire. They could. Because he successfully lit the fire.

[A]

Right. And that's also.

[B]

Oh, another one of my favorites. Great environmental song. Joni Mitchell, Big Yellow Taxi.

[A]

That's about a crazy type of poop that, honestly, only one or two people have had in history.

[B]

Oh, man. Big Dale Taxi. One of the great songs of all time. Prince Purple Rain.

[A]

That's some really.

[B]

These are some of the greatest songs of all time. They're just metaphors, people. The weekends, Blinding lights. Lords, Lord, Royals.

[A]

Oh, well, that's when you shit in a really nice bathroom.

[B]

Okay, but do not. Do not. Do not belittle.

[A]

Lord here wrote that when she was 16. Isn't that crazy?

[B]

Lord is a great lyricist. Oh, my God. I love a whole episode on Lord. If you want to do.

[A]

I got nothing on that the whole week. Oh, my God. Her new album, Virgin, which is crazily not about.

[B]

And let's. And.

[A]

And like in a bathroom.

[B]

And Miley Cyrus, Wrecking Ball. Okay, so I think that's enough. Let's dive into.

[A]

I've beaten this bit as far as it could go. I'm so tired.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And. And get me out of here. Please send me money.

[B]

Jump into the Taylor Realm. You got your red, you got your clean.

[A]

Right?

[B]

You got your blank space. You covered it in, the boy. Having the serial boyfriend is like just having a bunch of blank spaces on a page. You're gonna fill in a generic boyfriend. The archer. Right. So let's just dive.

[A]

I can't even spin that.

[B]

Let's dive into this song. But first, I want to play something that when you shoot somebody while they're.

[A]

On the toilet, I guess.

[B]

All right, so let's dive into red because this song of. I think any song I've ever heard has more metaphors.

[A]

Yeah, almost.

[B]

It's, like, got, like, 17 consecutive metaphors. The entire song is crazy, man. Metaphor after metaphor. This is like. And just like a blank space, right?

[A]

Oh, just like Heaven is another good one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Just for when you just have a really cathartic. And it's beautiful.

[B]

Okay, who has the fixation here? You said the things I said.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

Should be worried about. I'm now worried for You. Is there something I don't know, do we need to give you some?

[A]

I'm just constipated right now. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[B]

Some more rice, maybe Milk of magnesia, laxatives. I wish I were back in my boarding school. Yeah. Okay, let's move on from this. Speaking of which, let's get Taylor explaining what she was thinking about the importance of Red as the title of the album and the title of the song.

[A]

Red is a song that I wrote halfway through making this album. And it changed what this album became because this song is about correlating different emotions to different colors. And it hit me all of a sudden that most of the emotions I'd felt in this process of making this album were red emotions. All the intense ones that I'd added at the happy and the angry end of the spectrum. And it really changed my outlook on where this record was going. Because to me, this song is very different, very descriptive, and it has an edge to it that to me, kind of expanded what I wanted to do.

[B]

Yeah, descriptive metaphors are very descriptive. And if you want to be visual and descriptive and. Right, so she was trying to correlate emotions to colors. Right. So this was her whole goal was. And to be clear, that connects to the memory tricks. Cause the memory tricks are about creating emotions. Metaphors are about creating emotions. Right. And so we're gonna describe. We'll just jump into the song, you know, we'll come back to this. Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street.

[A]

Give me more. Give me more. That wasn't really dramatic enough. Imagine you're trying to drive. You got this new Maserati from the dealership, fresh out. Got that new car smell. You're just driving down a dead end street. Now give me that with that emotion.

[B]

Loving him is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street. Faster than the wind. Passionate of sin, ending so suddenly.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Damn. Yes.

[A]

I think I just shit my pants. That was beautiful.

[B]

You can get very emotional about metaphors. I mean, reading someone's metaphor, you can of course, put emotion into it. One of the most important words, by the way, in this is the word new. You're not just driving around any old Maserati.

[A]

This is a new bitch ass Maserati.

[B]

Maserati.

[A]

That is a new Maserati.

[B]

She is saying, by the way, got that new car. Another hint that this is about Fake Jake is it's a new Maserati. This is a very new relationship that crashes this relationship does not last long. She's not been driving this Maserati of a relationship for years. Right.

[A]

This is new Pedro Pascal. She seems like a good dude.

[B]

She only went out with Rake Jake, like three or four months.

[A]

Three, four months.

[B]

But it was intense. How intense? Well, it was faster than the wind. It was passionate as sin, and it ended so suddenly. Now, from my perspective, she is talking about a car crash.

[A]

I don't. And I. From my perspective, respectfully, I think that that says a lot about you as a driver. And personally, when I drive a car down a dead end street, I do so safely and I do so at 18 miles an hour, as we've established is faster than the wind. And then I stop and suddenly maybe, sure. But the airbags don't go off well, first of all. So I'm a little concerned about you. I'm concerned about what you're driving.

[B]

Say. I'm very happy that my daughter as, as an emerging teenage driver considers faster than the wind to be 18 miles an hour.

[A]

I think, and honestly, in the District of Columbia, 25 miles an hour is the otherwise posted speed limit. It.

[B]

I'm, I'm.

[A]

18 miles an hour is a respectable pace. I am so will people honk at you?

[B]

Delighted.

[A]

Only because they would crash a car if they were driving down a dead end street.

[B]

All I want, I just want to envision that.

[A]

Sad.

[B]

I want to envision my daughter driving a new Maserati 18 miles an hour.

[A]

If you guys send me enough money to get a new Maserati, I will drive it at 18 miles an hour.

[B]

So.

[A]

And I'll show. I'll do a demonstration if this isn't an auto crash.

[B]

And by the way, the other reason that I view this as an auto crash is, you know, this is about, about Jake and we know Jake's terrible driver, right? Yeah, he already in all too well. Right. He famously almost ran a red light because he's looking over at Taylor and I can understand why he's looking over.

[A]

Taylor almost running a red light. Oh my God, you'd have to be like genuinely such a wimp to be like, oh my God, you almost ran a red light. Like guys. But he didn't though.

[B]

Well, the point is I've almost run.

[A]

A red light and nobody gives, nobody gives two flying red lights about it.

[B]

Wait, this is news to me. When did this happen?

[A]

I don't know. Every time that I almost run a red light and then don't almost.

[B]

This is happening a lot. Do I have to worry about your driving now because I was so happy about the 18 miles an hour.

[A]

Can you see the light is yellow? You speed the up. No, you speed up. You speed up and then you run it and then. Then you don't. You. I guess. And then you could say you almost run a red light. But you don't. You don't. I'm not. Hey, I've never caused an accident.

[B]

I'm just so happy.

[A]

I will never cause an accident. This is my guarantee.

[B]

You're making me so happy.

[A]

Really hard pie at my face.

[B]

You're making me so happy that you don't know how to parallel park yet.

[A]

I actually do. I actually do because. Because my friend came over last night and she actually taught me a great strategy. Shout out a friend whose name I don't know if I can say on air, but shout out her. Shout out her. She'll never listen to this, but if she does. Shout out you, man. Shout out you.

[B]

Okay, let's continue. But let's. Let's just say for a minute that one of the things about metaphors. Because they're not.

[A]

One minute.

[B]

One of the things about metaphors, they're not literal. And therefore you can have one interpretation and I can have another. If she wanted to say it was a car crash, she could have just said this is a car crash.

[A]

Which is why I don't think it's a car crash. She could have just said that.

[B]

But I do. For reasons that we'll get to. But we're gonna come. That's the ending of this.

[A]

Glare. Glare at you.

[B]

Let's continue. Just. Cause this is just nonstop metaphors.

[A]

Okay? Okay. And remember, this is faster than the wind. So you not only have to speak quickly, but you have to speak with passion. Passion. Passionate essence.

[B]

Ah, we'll see. Loving him is like trying to change your mind once you've. We are already flying through the free fall.

[A]

And can you take that line again? Because you stammered. I don't think Taylor Swift would want you to stammer.

[B]

Loving him is like trying to change your mind once you're already flying through the free fall.

[A]

Free fall. Yes. Big black block. Okay, well, this.

[B]

Since you made me read it again, I've had a realization. Wow. Right?

[A]

I'm a great director, man.

[B]

She's driving the Maserati down a dead end street over a cliff. And that's why she's in Flying through the air and freefall.

[A]

I don't know what the hell that ends.

[B]

Just comes right after those two.

[A]

What the hell? Who would end a street right at A cliff.

[B]

That's a lot of psych. And that's where dead ends are.

[A]

Dean Common would never do that. Shout out my man, Dean Common, inventor of the Segway and not streets that end on a cliff. That's an insane thing.

[B]

This is also, by the way, a great pun of hers because she goes from flying through the free fall to like the colors in autumn. Fall, Autumn.

[A]

She kind of ate there, I can't lie.

[B]

Oh, man, that is a sweet one.

[A]

Kind of a baddie move.

[B]

So then she goes like the colors in autumn. Simile so bright just before they lose it all. Oh, man, sad face. And this is again, this analogy she kind of uses in this metaphor, she uses in all too well about the falling leaves sort of being. And by the way, falling leaves do represent the. The end of a life cycle, right? Which then starts again, right? The leaves fall before winter time and then that leads to spring. So the point is, yes, she's.

[A]

And that's science, right? That's science. We've just explained something.

[B]

We did. And again, this goes back to Jake.

[A]

Don't ever say we don't teach you anything.

[B]

We know that the Jake relationship was during the fall because all too well, talks entirely.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Oh, and by the way, little dive, slight diversion here. No, no, no, no, no. This is part of the song. You do not play your damn music. This is the liner notes.

[A]

What?

[B]

The liner notes to this song, Red have Taylor has Coke.

[A]

Like liners, like lines.

[B]

This is a CD liner notes.

[A]

I don't know what that is.

[B]

These are the things, the hidden meanings that she puts in for her songs, right?

[A]

You mean an Easter egg?

[B]

Yeah, but, but she.

[A]

What's a liner note?

[B]

Oh, man, this is the saddest thing I ever heard. But the liner notes are descriptions on physical albums. I realize you only download stuff, so you don't get CDs. You don't get vinyl.

[A]

I have vinyls.

[B]

And by the way, shout out to Taylor. She has single almost single handedly.

[A]

I know what VHS is. Before all you millennials start coming, Taylor.

[B]

Has almost single handedly brought back vinyl. She has Google the top selling.

[A]

Even though I only have two of her records.

[B]

If you google the top selling records on vinyl, vinyl, they're all Taylor Swift.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

She's responsible for like 40 of all vinyl sales because she is old school. Ah. Oh, wow, man. Our engineer, audio engineer, who is a total music guy, did not know this. He's like thinking, taylor, she's not. No, man. No, no, no, no.

[A]

Oh, Man, I hate her. No, I'm just kidding. So sorry.

[B]

Oh, man. Now he's gonna.

[A]

Now he's gonna take out his gun again and start shooting. That's what he does when he gets mad at us.

[B]

He's not gonna give us water. No.

[A]

To take our.

[B]

By the way, once again, you've heard, I don't know, 30 minutes of this, but we've been here for three days now.

[A]

It's 3am in a warehouse.

[B]

Oh, man. God. We've had to cut out so much of this because he's so. He won't. He's a harsh taskmaster.

[A]

It's okay. We forgive him, though, so. But now he knows. Now you're gonna buy all of Taylor Swift's records, Right?

[B]

Right.

[A]

So he's not nodding. It's okay.

[B]

So let's get into the. The. The chorus here. The. Losing him was blue like I'd never known Missing him was dark gray all alone.

[A]

Is that how you speak when something is dark gray and all alone?

[B]

You Miss Actress? I'm not Miss Actress. You're the professional. I never claimed to be a professional actor. I've never been on stage.

[A]

He's having a breakdown. Listen, you are talent. You are light. You are a grace, and you can do this, okay? Acting is reacting. React to the pain in your heart. You have gotten a divorce. All right, that's dark and gray and all alone. Use that. Use that. Try it again. Take it from the top.

[B]

I need you to read the cards.

[A]

No, no, no, no, no.

[B]

I will read other parts.

[A]

Too deep into this bit. Now you have to read it.

[B]

You're going to read the next verse.

[A]

Let's see what your heart.

[B]

You're going to read the next verse. I'm taking messages.

[A]

I'll read a quarter.

[B]

Okay. Losing him was blue like I've never known Missing him was dark gray all alone Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you never met.

[A]

I don't know if that's a question, but I like the choice.

[B]

Loving him was red. Oh, loving him was red.

[A]

That's beautiful. That's beautiful.

[B]

So she's just turned this into a tapestry, a visual feast for the eyes of emotions. Right now, losing blue. We know what blue means. Blue. This is right.

[A]

This is kind of a cliche. The blues.

[B]

Right. That's kind of sad. I want to make one point here because you pointed out that the great writer and essayist, George Orwell.

[A]

Well, of course, he also said, you know, break any of these rules sooner than doing something outright outrageous, and it would be crazy if she didn't use this in this instance.

[B]

Well. And by the way, I should say that he wrote a great essay called Politics in the English Language, which goes at great length into this. The point I was just gonna make is that pop songs do have cliches.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

Pop songs tend to be built around.

[A]

Well, they're popular. They're popular songs, so they have to have cliches. That's what makes them popular.

[B]

And typical pop song is where you take a well known expression, like all too well, and you give it a new meaning.

[A]

Sure, right.

[B]

That's Many, many pop songs are cliches, I think.

[A]

Do have an important piece in being mem. Right. I mean, it's. But it's tipping them on their head. Right? That's what you have to do. You can't use them in a regular way, otherwise that won't stand out.

[B]

But I mean, look, when Dylan wrote Like a Rolling Stone, right, it was the famous. The famous epithet, a rolling stone gathers no moss. Right.

[A]

So whatever the hell that means.

[B]

Well, I will tell you what it means. My daughter, because it's very important in the history of rock and roll, explained.

[A]

This to me like five years ago.

[B]

The Muddy Waters used the metaphor. I don't know if water could. The great country singer whose name will come to me.

[A]

I'm sorry, Dolly Parton?

[B]

No, before him, before her, it was the great Hank Williams. So why did the Rolling Stones, one of the great rock bands of all time, choose that name? Why did the great rock magazine, Rolling Stone magazine, name itself Rolling Stone? And why did Dylan title his song like A Rolling Stone? Why is Rolling Stone a metaphor, a simile that is so important to rock music?

[A]

You can start a podcast about that.

[B]

This is gonna blow your mind when I explain it to you.

[A]

Cause this is such a. I'm sad, I'm waiting.

[B]

This is a total.

[A]

Do it.

[B]

So a rolling stone gathers no moss.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Right. So the point is, if you have a rock that just sits, it doesn't move. Right. It'll get moss on one side of.

[A]

It, and that's science.

[B]

Sure, right. If it's rolling, it can't. Right. So the Rolling Stone.

[A]

Unless the moss is really motivated.

[B]

The Rolling Stone doesn't lock in. My daughter. Yes, it's a metaphor for the traveling bards. What the great musicians are doing. They are all thinking of them. They tour cities. Sure, Right. So in some sense, they're like the ancient bards. They don't settle down. They just keep moving from town to town singing their poetic stories.

[A]

What would Be the mosque, Right?

[B]

Well, if they had roots, if they stayed in the same place, had a family, instead of doing their wild things on the road. Right, but the point is, the reason the phrase Rolling Stone became so glommed on by so many people, five out.

[A]

Of 10 in history, kind of seems obvious. Like if you're moving around, you can't start it like, all right, and that's kind of offensive to diplomats. What about people who are foreign service officers?

[B]

But the point here is that this whole thing, this podcast, is entirely about taking the memory tricks from the great bars and showing that Taylor is a master of them. But she is also. Also a modern day bar.

[A]

No, no, of course.

[B]

So that's the.

[A]

I'm just going back to the metaphor. Is it like a compliment or is it an insult? Like, is it a good thing to have moss? Because I feel like in general, like, moss is pretty, but it's also like, do we want moss on the rocks? Do we not want moss on rocks? There's lichen to. What would lichen be in this metaphor?

[B]

I would say maybe a pet. The way that metaphor is normally used, I think is not as a positive.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's talking to someone who isn't setting down roots. Right? You're not. You're not.

[A]

Which seems pretty heteronormative to me. You don't need roots.

[B]

Well, look, I mean historical happy people didn't travel that far, right, for. For most of humanity, right? We're all just like hundreds gatherers. We're farmers, right. 99% of people are farmers. They just stay on the land, right? So the luxury, the luxury of just itinerantly traveling was not an option for.

[A]

Elon Musk seems to have no problems.

[B]

With, well, rich people.

[A]

That's the point.

[B]

That's the point of the vacation.

[A]

He has 23 non problems right now.

[B]

Let's get back to the song. The point is, yes, we got lost in the blues. Missing him was dark gray all alone. Right? So this is the sad face. This is just. Her life has turned all gray without him. Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you never met. Now that's just a paradox of some sort, which is also a figure of speech. But the point is, this is a very weird metaphor, right? You can't. The point is it's.

[A]

I also spent some time thinking about this one. Here's the conclusion that I came to.

[B]

What do you have to say about this?

[A]

Well, see here, if you look at. Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you never met. Well, it seems that we have to first examine the second part. To know somebody that you've never met, it seems almost impossible. You can't possibly know somebody you never met. But it seems like if you could know somebody that you never met, it would be. It would be through the secondary sources of information.

[B]

It sounds like Chachi PT talking to me right now.

[A]

He's interrupting me. What a disrespectful man. Stay in your place, man. Go back to the cage that we keep you in. Anyway.

[B]

Metaphor.

[A]

Anyway. To know somebody that you've never met, it seems that that would be. That would feel like you just. You just. You have to try because somebody's making you know them. It seems like you're researching them, perhaps, but you've never met them.

[B]

It's an impossible. Can I just explain this in two seconds?

[A]

You forget him. And forgetting him is like that. It means she's saying in actuality, no, don't take this away. Forgetting him was impossible.

[B]

Exactly. That is what she's saying. She can't forget him. That's what she's saying. Right. Forgetting him was like trying to know somebody you never met. You can't know someone you never met. That's impossible.

[A]

In this case, to be serious, knowing somebody would be not loving him. Right.

[B]

Like, I'm just saying that what she's. This is a song about her inability to forget this guy.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Right. Which we know she's unable to forget this guy.

[A]

It feels like she's always loved him or she. The love for him is like she can't unknow him. Right. So it kind of.

[B]

In this album, she wrote a five and a half minute song about how she remembered him. And then she added five minutes a decade later into a ten and a half minute song about how she remembers him all too well. Right. So I think we have it on the record that he. She just can't forget this guy.

[A]

Man.

[B]

Straight. Right. And this gets back to what the scarf is and why this was a seminal moment in her life. That is unforgettable. Understandably so. And that's what this song. She is just trying to figure out different ways of explaining to people. She cannot get this guy out of his head. Her head.

[A]

Sad face.

[B]

Right.

[A]

I think I put it more eloquently. She just to. Just to add that.

[B]

And then loving him was red. Burning red.

[A]

That was really good. You didn't even need my direction for that. Honestly. You're a natural man.

[B]

I think we know what that is. And again, this. Oh. When you had not apparently known what liner Notes was we never got to the fact that the liner note for this song was the capital S, capital A, capital G. Sag, like after. Well, some people have said, oh, maybe it's cause they're both in the Screen Actors Guild.

[A]

But in fact, I mean, you're wearing the Writers Guild of America shirt.

[B]

I am. But other people believe it's cause they're both Sagittarius.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And we know, famously, she's born on December 13th. I didn't realize he was born on December 19th. Ooh. But that's also why in all too well and in the song before this, she talks about the twin flames.

[A]

Right. And flame fire sign.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So not only are they twin flames.

[B]

Flames, they're both fire signs. So it is not surprise that if you bring two fire signs together, it is going to be burning red.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

That's what she's saying here again. Now you can read this part. Remembering. Ooh, Remembering.

[A]

I'm not the artist here.

[B]

Come.

[A]

He's embarrassed because he's so talented.

[B]

I have all day.

[A]

It's really hard, can I just say this? For men in society to accept sometimes that there are softer arts, arts they excel at. And sitting here today, I've witnessed the birth of an artist. One that I don't. I think we would be remiss if we didn't nurture this. This budding talent.

[B]

But unlike that metaphorical birth of an artist you're referring to, I actually witnessed the actual birth of a real artist.

[A]

So what he's doing now is 15.

[B]

Years ago, that was you when you were so tiny I could hold you.

[A]

My hands. Deflection is a popular tactic used because some people are embarrassed of how good they are at things. And right now I'm embarrassed that my.

[B]

Daughter, who is actually a professional actress, she has actually appeared on a professional stage and gotten paid for it.

[A]

People hate when women do things. People love when I don't.

[B]

I love when my daughter does things. And I'm going to sit here and all day until she does.

[A]

I'm going to ask you to read it because I think. Think I think, honestly. Do you want to know the real reason is because.

[B]

Because you're scaredy cat. No, you are a total chicken.

[A]

It's because it's better for marketing if an old man reads something that was written by a 22 year old woman. It's really funny.

[B]

It may be funny, but you would deliver more genuine empathy because you are.

[A]

I've actually never dated Jake Gyllenhaal, so I don't Know what that would be like?

[B]

Well, neither have I.

[A]

You, on the other hand, I have never dated. If you're closer to Jake Gyllenhaal than I am, as gender and age wise.

[B]

Yeah, but he didn't write a song.

[A]

I will put you in the cage.

[B]

Remembering him comes in flashbacks and echoes Tell myself it's time now Gotta let go but moving on from him is impossible When I still see it all in my head Burning red. Burning. It was red.

[A]

I mean, just. There you go. I mean, why fight it?

[B]

So again, she can't forget this guy. And the point of this song is she has tried to figure out as many different possible ways of explaining to the listener what she means by I can't forget him. And searing it in their minds with one color is a very, very poignant way of doing it. And as we. We have discussed earlier, the word red is a metaphor for a great many things. As Taylor says, it can be very happy things like passion and love. But of course, it can also be burning flames. And it can be, as we know, shame.

[A]

Shame.

[B]

Right. The scarlet Letter, which she also talks.

[A]

About in New Romantics. Yes, it's true.

[B]

Okay, we're nearing the end here. Oh, no, skip.

[A]

I believe in you.

[B]

Oh, no, we skipped a verse. I'm sorry, because I just. That was.

[A]

He was distracted by his own talent.

[B]

Sorry, I. Touching him. We skipped. Touching him was like realizing all you ever wanted was right there in front of you. Which isn't really a metaphor.

[A]

Well, I think we've talked a lot about the metaphors in this song. But. But the. The meaning. What are we. What's.

[B]

Let's go to the meaning. Let's. Let's go to the final two lines here.

[A]

Right?

[B]

And that's why.

[A]

And remember. Hey, remember, Use the divorce. Use the divorce. I set you free.

[B]

Okay, last two lines. And again she repeats the chorus again. Loving him with red yeah, yeah, yeah Red, yeah We're burning red and that's why he's spinning round in my head Comes back to me Burning red yeah, yeah. It doesn't read so well on the page, but the final line of the song, his love was like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Now that's the same as the first line, but with a little change.

[A]

She used the past tense.

[B]

Well, the first line is loving him, which is how she felt her role. My loving him is like driving.

[A]

Oh, it's true. That too.

[B]

She switched it to his love. His love. She is concluding it's his way of loving that has screwed things up. Not her way of loving.

[A]

Ah, you cooked. That's actually so true.

[B]

This is a very, very harsh indictment. I'm sorry if Rake Jake didn't realize it cause it was a little sub subtle. But guess what, Rake Jake, this is maybe the harshest diss.

[A]

Get fucked, Rake Jake.

[B]

That she has given you even in the whole ten and a half minutes of all too well. Which is pretty damn brutal. But she is saying that your love.

[A]

His fault.

[B]

Punk bitch is like driving a new Maserati down a dead end street. Your love, Rake Jake, is a dead end street. But it's not any dead end street. I had a new Maserati. Cause I'm a new Maserati. She is the damn new Maserati. I'm a new Maserati, Jake. And I ran it as fast in the wind down this with you. But it turned out you were a fricking dead end street. I went over to damn Cliff. I was flying through the free fall, which was the same time as autumn. And it's all your fault.

[A]

That was the most beautiful display of genuine emotion that I've ever seen.

[B]

I'm angry at Jake now. I mean, I'm you.

[A]

This is not even Gyllenhaal. We appreciated your work in the Spider man universe. Just don't sue us, please. This isn't defamation. We're using what your girlfriend wrote.

[B]

Passable actor.

[A]

Please.

[B]

Passable actor. What? Donnie Darko?

[A]

I think you have a lot of money that you can use against us. We are humble servants of your ex girlfriend. Please.

[B]

I just want to also say that Harrison Ford was much better in the original movie, Presumed Innocent than you were in the TV series remake. And did I snap him on that one? Is that.

[A]

Is that if you're under 20? He just basically said probably the most decimating thing you can say to a person.

[B]

Please watch the original movie, which is a great, great movie.

[A]

Is it about oj?

[B]

It's the same thing. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's about. It's about a. A prosecutor who was accused of murdering a woman that he had. Had. He was a rake. Harrison Ford plays a guy who cheated on his wife, but then he gets accused of murder when that woman he cheated with turns up dead.

[A]

Sure. And for everybody not in a nursing home right now. He's like saying slurs actively against Jake Gyllenhaal.

[B]

Oh, come on. Harrison Ford? Han Solo.

[A]

Yeah, I know. That's what makes it so horrible. I mean, you can't be compared to Han Solo.

[B]

Well, that's why, by the way.

[A]

That's by the way. I just want to say this came back to Star Wars.

[B]

It did, it did. Everything comes back to Star Wars. I'm just saying that one of the reasons they cast him and he took it because he wanted to not always be the hero. Hero, right. You want to play that guy once, right? That's, you know, mostly he plays heroes, right? This movie, little disheveled little dude. This movie, not exactly a hero.

[A]

That's beautiful. Okay, so what have we learned here today?

[B]

We've learned that you can't use too many metaphors.

[A]

You can never use.

[B]

Because this song, unless you're writing a.

[A]

College essay, then God damn be original. I'm so sorry. I'm really sorry. This song, I honestly shouldn't have an opinion. I have. I'm but one college student. And honestly, the college application system is so evil that anything that you do to survive, you gotta do, man.

[B]

Well, you gotta use metaphors.

[A]

As I said, if you put a.

[B]

Metaphor into your TikTok, it will stand out.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And by the way, you can use visual metaphors, right? That's entirely possible. You got a visual medium?

[A]

You know what? Yeah, I recant my statement. You know what? The college board is like the kgb. And I think that if you can survive, if you can find a way to get out, out and go to college, you have succeeded. So do whatever you got to do, man. But I'm just saying, like, if you could branch out, like, you should branch out. Like, I can't lie.

[B]

And I think.

[A]

What's our homework? We're gonna post this to canvas later, so just, you know, don't worry if you don't catch it. But what's the homework? We are. We are given out.

[B]

Well, again, you want to start to use metaphors.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. When you're explaining things, you know, and it's also a good brain exercise, right? Like, I have. I have a good visual memory. I have terrible active recall. Like, the problem for me isn't, like, isn't up with. With metaphors. It's figuring out, like, what things I know that could be compared to something. Like, it's just a good memory exercise, Right. It helps your brain create more connections. Metaphors aren't just like a way to explain something. They're a way for your brain to, like, become stronger.

[B]

And thank you for reminding me of the final reason why metaphors are so powerful.

[A]

Oh, you're welcome.

[B]

Yes, there has been social science literature on this. Metaphors. Because when the listener hears a metaphor they have to do some extra mental processing. Well, it turns out the things you have to do a little extra mental processing for, you're more likely to remember because it's a little complex. It requires some concentration of the mind. Why is this thing like that thing? Because this thing doesn't look like that thing. So I got to spend more time thinking. That embeds it in my head. Right. So that is the full and ultimate.

[A]

Power of the metaphor.

[B]

Of the metaphor. So you want to learn more metaphors? Step one, write this song out.

[A]

He always says I do that.

[B]

Yes, Write this song out and think about all the metaphors here.

[A]

We're writing about candlelight.

[B]

Look, you could listen to this song 50 times like I did. That's one way to.

[A]

You can look up the average velocity of the wind in Taylor Swift's hometown.

[B]

You reminded me about the other reason why I believe this song is about a car crash. Because what else is red a metaphor for?

[A]

Blood.

[B]

Blood.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So this is titled Red Taylor Swift Emo World. And it's about a car crash. And that's why. The other reason why it reminds her of red.

[A]

Interesting. Questionable take. Questionable take on the part of Joe.

[B]

And I'm thinking, why are you thinking.

[A]

About blood so much? You know what? Adios, muchachos y muchachas. And avita Alfita, sane and au revoir.

[B]

Just going to leave you with burning red.

[A]

I don't want that to be the last word. Sayonara.

[B]

Red.

[A]

Okay, that's a little weird. Anyway, bye, guys.

[B]

Bye.

[A]

Chillax this weekend.