The REAL meaning of Swift’s Lover will blow your mind: It’s the sequel to Cruel Summer.

Summary

Decoding Taylor Swift: The REAL Meaning of "Lover" (Feb 24, 2026)

Hosts: Joe Romm & Toni Romm
Episode theme: “Lover” as Swift’s nuanced sequel to “Cruel Summer”—and what it reveals about persuasive viral storytelling.

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Joe and Toni Romm offer a deep dive into Taylor Swift’s iconic song “Lover,” challenging the popular interpretation of it as a simple love song and instead arguing it’s a secret sequel to “Cruel Summer.” Using close reading, music video analysis, and expert knowledge of narrative technique, the Romms unpack the song’s layers, hidden ironies, storytelling devices, and the ways Swift’s choices turn a romantic standard on its head. Along the way, they model how anyone can use Swift’s tactics to become a better communicator and storyteller.

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Key Discussion Points

1. Setting the Stage: Why "Lover"?

• [00:26] Toni: Lover is the last song of her set in the ERAS tour for the Lover album.
• [00:56] Joe: Taylor titling the album after this song signals deeper themes: “...the overarching themes it conveys, like, for instance, love and Lover, but also, as we’ll see, some tumultuous love.”
• [01:27] Toni: Notes that upon deep listening, many seemingly simple Swift songs are “ironic” and contain an “undertone that kind of flips its meaning.”

2. Swift’s Signature Storytelling: Careful, Casual Language

• [02:00] Joe: Highlights the “casual precision” of Swift’s lyrics, pointing out how “even though a lot of these lines appear to be casual... the words are very carefully chosen.”
• [02:41] Toni: Corrects herself on the song’s running time, demonstrating their value for accuracy (“As the top Taylor Swift podcast... we should be accurate about our timestamps.”).

3. Line-by-Line Deep Dive into "Lover"

Opening Lines and Hypotheticals

• [04:48] Toni (reciting): “We could leave the Christmas lights up ’til January...”
   - [05:32] Joe: “This is an odd opening line because it’s hypothetical. We could leave the Christmas lights up til January. It’s not like we did. It’s just something we could do.”
• [05:52] Toni: On “This is our place, we make the rules”—grounding in present tense, but painting a fantasy scene.
• [06:12] Joe: Decodes the use of “mysterious” for the lover and the ambiguity in “have I known you 20 seconds or 20 years?”
• [06:36] Toni: “It just goes forward in time as you go on... it starts with her knowing this guy for 20 seconds... and then, you know, the music video ends—well, let’s save it.”

The Chorus: Sweetness & Skepticism

• [07:50] Toni (singing): “Can I go where you go?... You’re my, my, my, my lover.”
• [08:31] Joe: “It could be very sweet. It also, as we’ll see... seems like he’s gonna go. Why does she have to ask if she can go where he goes?”
• [08:58] Toni: References Swift’s “never say never ever” lyric and real-life relationship foreshadowing.
• [09:24] Joe: Points out the music video’s appearance of two fake board games—one quoting Cruel Summer ("Devils roll the dice, angels roll their eyes"), suggesting a narrative link.

4. Theory Bombshell: "Lover" is the Sequel to "Cruel Summer"

• [10:15] Joe: “This song is a sequel to Cruel Summer. If you go back now to the very opening lines, [in Cruel Summer]—‘no rules in breakable heaven’—here she says, ‘this is our place, we make the rules.’”

5. Verse Two: Fantasies & Doubts

• [13:00] Toni (reciting): “We could let our friends crash in the living room... and I’m highly suspicious that everyone who sees you wants you. I’ve loved you three summers now, honey, but I want ‘em all.”
• [13:38] Joe: Notes repetition of “could” — hypotheticals and fantasies, not realities.
• [14:14] Toni: Analyses tense switch: from conditional into the present, indicating immersion in fantasy or hope.

6. Music Video as Key Evidence

• [14:22] Joe: “The music video is a collection of rooms in a very bizarre house... mimics the House of the Eras Tour actually” (Toni).
   - Rooms: upside-down walk, goldfish bowl/mermaid scene, argument room—all underscoring relationship instability.
• [15:08] Joe: On the “highly suspicious...” line: “She is intensely jealous... the title suggests purity, but there’s a lot underneath.”

7. Meticulous Word Choices & Intentionality

• [17:23] Joe: “When you’re writing, have a reason for every word. If you don’t know why you used a word, don’t use that word. And Taylor Swift... does not choose words by accident.”
• [17:56] Toni: “She doesn’t fuck around, man.”

8. Parallel Narratives: “Cardigan” & Men Who Leave

• [19:11] Joe: “This song reminds me of Cardigan, because the guy keeps leaving.”
   - [19:18] Toni: “He knows that you’d come back to me...”

9. The Bridge: Swift’s Lyrical Masterstroke

• [22:14] Toni: “Ladies and gentlemen, will you please stand? / With every guitar string scar on my hand... / My heart’s been borrowed and yours has been blue. / All’s well that ends well to end up with you. / Swear to be overdramatic and true to my lover...”
• [24:28] Toni: “These are wedding vow–esque.”
• [25:07] Joe: “Those are the four things supposed to bring good luck to a wedding...” (decoding “something borrowed, something blue”).
• [25:41] Joe: “She’s also semi-breaking the fourth wall... talking about herself as singer-songwriter.”
• [26:16] Joe: Connects “scars” and suffering with lines from Cruel Summer (“this summer’s a knife”; “if I bleed, you’ll be the last to know”).
• [27:04] Joe: “I take this magnetic force of a man...she is really, really drawn to this guy, which we knew from Cruel Summer.”

10. Shakespearean Echoes & Ironies

• [29:02] Toni: “All’s well that ends well to end up with you” — notes it’s a Shakespeare play.
• [29:30] Joe: Explains the plot of All’s Well That Ends Well: A woman ‘wins’ a reluctant man and must perform impossible tasks to prove herself. “This was not accidental by Taylor Swift. This is about a woman who’s very desperate to marry a man who does not think she is worthy... in the real world, after all that, this would hardly be a happy ending.”

11. Strange Promises, Unsettling Endings

• [34:17] Toni (reciting outro): “Yeah, and you’ll save all your dirtiest jokes for me / And at every table, I’ll save you a seat, lover.”
• [34:26] Joe: “The best that he’s gonna do... is save the dirtiest jokes for me. Who else would he be telling the dirtiest jokes to? The weirder thing is... I’ll save you a seat. Why would you have to save him a seat? Because he didn’t show up with you.”
• [35:51] Joe: The repeated chorus now “takes on a bit weirder” tone — “Can I go where you go?” is more about anxiety, not unity.

12. The Narrative Trick: Nothing Actually Happens

• [39:50] Joe: “It breaks the rules of narrative. Nothing happens in this song. It starts with a hypothetical and it creates a mood, it asks questions... there is no narrative, there’s nothing that happens in this song. It is quite amazing...”
• [40:42] Toni: Compares it to Kazuo Ishiguro’s Never Let Me Go: so much is in the narrator’s mind, not reality.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On wordcraft:
  “When you’re writing, have a reason for every word. And Taylor Swift... does not choose words by accident.” — Joe [17:23]
• On subtext:
  “...even though the title of the song is Lover and it seems to be a pure love song, clearly there’s a lot going on underneath the surface.” — Joe [15:09]
• On Shakespearean allusions:
  “This is about a woman who’s very desperate to marry a man who does not think she is worthy. And she goes to extraordinary lengths... It does have a happy ending. But it’s kind of dubious...” — Joe [32:16]
• On “Lover” as narrative experiment:
  “It breaks the rules of narrative. Nothing happens in this song... it creates a mood... there is no narrative.” — Joe [39:50]
• On the music video’s twist:
  “...the person who was looking at this little house received it as a snow globe... and it’s their child.” — Toni [38:03]
• On Taylor’s mastery:
  “Like other of her great songs, the close reading can turn the meaning on its head.” — Joe [42:55]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [00:26] Why “Lover” is special / The song as the heart of the album.
• [04:48] First Verse reading & meaning dissection.
• [06:36] Toni on narrative time flow; “Lover” as love over the years.
• [09:24] Hidden “Cruel Summer” references in the music video.
• [10:14] Joe’s bombshell: “Lover” as direct sequel to “Cruel Summer.”
• [13:00] Second Verse reading; conditional tense analysis.
• [14:22] The symbolic, surreal house in the music video; arguments over jealousy.
• [15:08] Jealousy, doubt, complexity beneath the “love song” surface.
• [17:23] Writing tip: “Have a reason for every word.”
• [22:14] Dissection of the Bridge: wedding imagery, breaking the fourth wall.
• [29:02] “All’s Well That Ends Well”—Shakespeare and its so-called “problem play”.
• [34:17] The unusual, bittersweet outro: “I’ll save you a seat.”
• [39:50] Groundbreaking narrative: a mood piece, not a story.

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Style, Tone & Engagement

• Lively, Relatable Banter: The father-daughter dynamic, with witty exchanges and gentle ribbing, e.g. Toni’s “I’m speak talking... like a slam poet in a way, if you think about it” [04:18].
• Semi-serious Analysis + Humor: The Romms inject humor throughout, even comparing in-depth fan theories to MatPat’s “Game Theory” [36:38] or joking about men who leave (“Men are actually trash...well, you guys don’t know this, but I knew this.” — Toni [18:49]).
• Metatextual Moments: Frequent asides about podcasting life, sharing, and their “fidget toy” obsession for comic relief.

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Takeaways: What Listeners Learn

• Narrative Craft: Taylor Swift’s lyrics—especially in “Lover”—are carefully constructed to evoke multiple readings and emotions, often hiding darkness beneath apparent sweetness.
• Storytelling Tools: Hypotheticals, deliberate word choice, and shifting tenses can all create rich, resonant moods in your communication/content.
• Cultural Literacy: Swift layers in references from her own catalog (like linking to “Cruel Summer”) and centuries-old texts (Shakespeare), adding depth for close readers.
• Reading Videos as Text: Music videos provide crucial interpretive cues (e.g., surreal rooms, game references) that change how lyrics are understood.

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Recommended for Further Exploration

• Revisit “Cruel Summer” with this episode’s insights.
• Watch the “Lover” music video for visual storytelling clues.
• Read up on Shakespeare’s All’s Well That Ends Well for parallels.
• Check out Kazuo Ishiguro’s Never Let Me Go for more mood-driven narratives.

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Next episode: “The Archer”—Toni’s favorite, lined up for next week.

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**If you appreciated this breakdown, “save a seat” for Decoding Taylor Swift by subscribing, sharing, and rating. And, as Joe jokes, share your best dirty jokes in the comments!

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Joe Rome and I'm his daughter, Tony.

[B]

Welcome to Decoding Taylor Swift, where you'll learn the storytelling tools Swift uses that make her a modern day Shakespeare, but

[A]

can make you a better communicator so you can drive your mission and build your tribe.

[B]

This podcast will not only transform how you think about Swift's songs, but also give you the life changing tools to lead, connect, and change the world.

[A]

This episode we will be talking about Lover, which is the last song of her set in the ERAS tour for Lover.

[B]

The last song of her love. Because she does the Archer after this.

[A]

Oh, my God. She does the bridge of the Archer. That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who cares? I'm just kidding. If I'm like acting crazy, like, come up to me and just throw pie at me. Anyway, the point is that Archer is my favorite. Lover is what we're doing today. But Lover is very good because. Because.

[B]

Why is Lover very good?

[A]

Well, Lover is very good because Taylor has chosen to title her album Lover.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

That often means something about how the song is portrayed, often how the song comes across and the overarching themes it conveys, like, for instance, love and Lover, but also, as we'll see, you know, some tumultuous love. And it is tumultuous.

[B]

There's. This is. This is a uniquely strange song.

[A]

It is a uniquely strange song.

[B]

I think of as, you know, I listen these songs a lot.

[A]

He listens to these songs like, oh,

[B]

my gosh, I probably, you know, 30 or 40 times in the last couple of days. This is a. A song that, like many of her very ironic songs, like many of them does have an undertone that kind of flips its meaning. And it's particularly important, noticeable. If you see the video. This is one of those songs which

[A]

I watched on the toilet just before we recorded. I have many thoughts on it.

[B]

Right. And in terms of actionable things to take away.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think this is one of those songs where there's. This is a very short song, but she's. In terms of number of words.

[A]

Yeah, right, right, right. Because it's like three minutes and 54 seconds.

[B]

Yeah, right. But she. This is a. One of her most slowly sung songs. I think the, the takeaway on this is she is very careful in the words and phrases that. And even though a lot of these lines appear to be casual.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

We will interrogate these lines so casually cruel.

[A]

In the name of being honest, perhaps you could say.

[B]

Exactly. Yes. She writes a lot of songs where the words are very carefully Chosen just

[A]

to say, like, I know I messed up by saying that. It's 3 minutes and 54 seconds. Actually 3 minutes and 42 seconds. I'm looking at it right now just for the sake of fact. Like, I feel like as the top Taylor Swift podcast on Spotify, you know, we should be accurate about our time stage.

[B]

We should be accurate. Yes, we did fall off the top 50 because it's very hard to please stay on the top 50.

[A]

We have to stay on the top 50 and then we have to eventually beat Joe Budden. We have to like find him eventually.

[B]

So please.

[A]

But I don't know if we're there yet, you know.

[B]

No, but it is number one or number two. But if you like this podcast, please do share it. Seriously with your friends.

[A]

Tell your friends, tell your uncles and aunts, to be honest.

[B]

But this song, we are going to go through line by line.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I think many of the lines, after you think about them and see the other lines in the song, they take on a different meaning, especially when you combine them with.

[A]

With the music video.

[B]

Music video, yeah. So let's start.

[A]

I love how I just know what you're gonna say now. Like, I just know what you're gonna say.

[B]

Well, I will drop. There's several bombshells. I think about what is going on in this song. And I will save the first one for when we get to the chorus because that's when she drops the bombshell in the video. So why don't you start? Cause you are doing a kick ass job of singing these or what?

[A]

I'm not. I'm actually not singing.

[B]

No, your speak talk. Your speak singing.

[A]

I'm speak talking. I'm like a slam poet in a way, if you think about it.

[B]

Well, and she. Yeah. And this is a song that she is singing very slowly. Like often it's close to talking.

[A]

Well, yeah, I would say that the. The tempo is slow.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And there's. There's a few like, beats between when she speaks. But there she sings, as I will show, kind of in a patterish way. Sure, yeah.

[B]

Take it away, Tony.

[A]

This is the intro. We could leave the Christmas lights up till January this is our place we make the rules and there's a dazzling haze I'm a serious way about you dear have I known you 20 seconds or 20 years?

[B]

Okay, first verse, first verse.

[A]

I promise I can sing better. But it's like, you know, I save that for like the subscribers only. We actually don't have a subscription based. Subscribers are my friends. Trust

[B]

so we could leave the Christmas lights up till January. Now, this is an odd opening line because it's hypothetical.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

We could leave the Christmas lights up till January. Right. It's not like we did. It's just something we could do.

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's a little unusual for her. And this is our place. We make the rules. Okay.

[A]

That is the pr. Present tense. She seems. I mean, it's just a way of grounding herself in the scene. But she's not a scene. That does not happen.

[B]

She's living with a guy. She's living with a guy.

[A]

Isn't that crazy?

[B]

I think that's what she's saying. And there's a dazzling haze A mysterious way about you, dear. Right. So she's now introducing mystery. Right. We have to wonder what's mysterious about this guy.

[A]

How they know you 20 seconds or 20 years.

[B]

Right, right. And so now that's a very interesting line. So how do you read. What do you think it means?

[A]

It seems like they've just met. So this song is very interesting and it takes you a few listens to get this, but it just. It goes forward in time as you go on. It starts with her knowing this guy for 20 seconds. It's like love at first sight. And then three summers. And then, you know, the music video ends. You know, not to give it away with. Well, let's. Let's. Okay, we'll save it. Sure, let's.

[B]

The music ending. The music video has a very big surprise end.

[A]

Like, I kind of saw it coming. I can't lie. Like, as soon as it. Yeah, well.

[B]

And anyway.

[A]

But basically it's going forward in time with Taylor Swift's love interest.

[B]

But it's also, she's saying, either I've known this guy for 20 years, so I know him really well, or I just met him for 20 seconds and I don't know him at all.

[A]

It feels like she knows him really well.

[B]

Right. I'm just saying that this is the mystery. Right, Right.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

He's kind of a mysterious guy. Because she doesn't really know him. Yeah, right. She seems like she knows him, but she doesn't really know him. That's what I think that line means.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Okay, now.

[A]

I mean, like. Yes.

[B]

Now the chorus.

[A]

Can I go where you go? Can we always be this close? Forever and ever and. Ow. Take me out and take me home. You're my, my, my, my lover. Yeah, that's what it is.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Excuse me, can you applaud me? Thank you. Thank you.

[B]

That was really good. I appreciate that.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So can I go where you go?

[A]

Yeah. How sweet is that?

[B]

It could be very sweet. It also, as we'll see as it goes through the song, seems like he's gonna go.

[A]

Where's he gonna go?

[B]

Right, right. He's. Why. Why is. And we'll get back to this issue of why he's going. And she has to go where he goes. Right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can we always be this close? Forever and ever? Well, that's a long time. That's a long time. And we may remember from her famous

[A]

song, that's how the creator says forever is too goddamn long.

[B]

Well. And she has a favorite famous song, we're never Ever Getting Back Together, where she says, we used to say. I used to say, never say never ever. Right.

[A]

Well. And it kind of foreshadowed her relationship with Joe Alwyn because, in fact, they did end.

[B]

Right. And this is Joe Alwyn.

[A]

This is Joe Alwyn of Shakespeare fame.

[B]

But there are two fake board games that flash at this point in the video, which confirmed a theory I have. So the first is this.

[A]

Devils roll the dice, angels roll their eyes, which is a lyric from Cruel Summer. And the other board game, which I also. Oh, wait.

[B]

It says this is the only game that questions your answers.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

And. And then this is the second thing.

[A]

Breakable Heaven.

[B]

Breakable Heaven right now. So this is two lyrics from the previous song on the album. So I'm also.

[A]

Did an episode on which you should totally watch.

[B]

You should. I'm going to. I'm gonna reveal what I think. I was gonna save this for the end, but then I saw the music video and realized this is not so controversial. This song is a sequel to Cruel Summer. I believe that's what she's doing here. And if you go back now to the very opening lines, we leave the Christmas lights up till January, and this is our place. We make the rules. Well, what's the line right before Breakable heaven in cruel Summer. That's what I tell him. No rules. Right. It's cool. That's what I tell him. No rules in breakable heaven. Right now she's saying, well, this is our place. We make the rules.

[A]

That's crazy.

[B]

Both of us.

[C]

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[A]

I don't know about that one.

[B]

Well, give me some.

[A]

Alright, I'll give you some time, but you kind of sound like a Pizzagate conspiracist right now.

[B]

I'm a pizza gate conspiracist.

[A]

Yes, he believes.

[B]

Go to the next verse, my daughter.

[A]

Okay, the next verse. We could let our friends crash in the living room. This is our place we make the call and I'm highly suspicious that everyone who sees you wants you. I've loved you three summers. Ooh, summers.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I've loved you three summers now honey. But I want em all.

[B]

So here we go again. The opening line of the second verse is also another could. We could could.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Let our friends crash in the living room. Apparently we haven't yet because otherwise I wouldn't say it this way. Right. So now we have two things we could do.

[A]

Oh, she's fantasizing.

[B]

Right. So again, it's not happened yet. It has. Maybe because she doesn't make the rules. Just.

[A]

Whoa. Because there are no rules in breakable. Have you?

[B]

No, there aren't. Even though this is our place. And we make them.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

And. And she says this is our place. We make the call. Right.

[A]

Well, it's interesting, her use of tense.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because she switches from the. The conditional like the could we could to like being in the moment. Like she's. I Mean. And she's doing that to convey the fact that she is like, now in this fantasy. She wants to. To take the listener with her and like, imagine them, like, starting off the fantasy, but now she's in it.

[B]

Right. And if you watch the. The music video is a collection of rooms in a very bizarre house.

[A]

It is. And it mimics the house of like, the Eras tour, actually.

[B]

And one of the rooms is. They. They're. They're walking upside down. Another is a goldfish bowl where she's apparently a mermaid and he joins her. Another one is where they seem to be arguing, uh oh, about what we're

[A]

gonna get to, which is I'm highly suspicious that everyone sees you, wants you.

[B]

Well. And. Well, but yes, let's come back to that. Right. So we have this line. And I'm highly suspicious that everyone who sees you, wants you. Well, she's casting a shadow over this great love.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

Right. She is intensely jealous. And apparently she did think Al Winn was like a real catch and that he would be the kind of guy who would be attracted to him. But the point is, even though the title of the song is Lover and it seems to be a pure love song, clearly there's a lot going on underneath the surface.

[A]

And in the music video, it is very clear that it's not supposed to be taken as just a pure love song. Because half of the video they spend arguing over this line.

[B]

Right. And what they appear to be arguing over, well, let's get there. I've loved you three summers now, honey. But I want them all.

[A]

But I want them all.

[B]

That's what the argument's over. Right. She wants to marry this guy. Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Now, you may remember from Cruel Summer.

[A]

You may remember.

[B]

You may remember, right. The key line at the end of the bridge. And I scream, for whatever it's worth, I love you. Right. The whole point of Cruel Summer was that she didn't. That the secret. One of the secrets she's holding is she loved this guy. This guy wants to play by the no rules game.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Right. Which is to say she was like,

[A]

erm, okay, about that.

[B]

Right. I'll. Yeah, I'll play your game. And then she falls in love with this guy who is not treating her well. Right. Because whatever doesn't kill you makes me want you more.

[A]

Right, Exactly.

[B]

And the scar and the bleeding and all the stuff that happens in Cruel Summer. So now she says to this guy. And in the music video, she seems to be saying it to this guy. Right. We've Been together for three summers. I want them all. Which is she again. She dropped the word summers again, Which.

[A]

That is pretty damning.

[B]

Yeah, it is. Because otherwise it's not.

[A]

It's not a rhyme with anything.

[B]

It's also a very odd lyric. We've been together three years. Why would you say you've been together or three autumns. But do we want to get a little. Have they been together all the other time?

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or is it just.

[A]

She could have said something else. Exactly.

[B]

So she could have said something else. And one of the points that we make, and I think this is a point, the actionable thing is when you're writing, have a reason for every word. And if you don't know why you used a word, don't use that word.

[A]

And we can assume that. I mean, Taylor Swift, you know, say what you will about her, but she has been writing for a very, very long time. And she, you know, I mean, to be even successful in any field of writing, especially songwriting, because the medium is so short, you know, you have to be very intentional. The music and. Or the lyrics that you use.

[B]

And she clearly is. I mean, we have seen in all. Many of the songs that we've analyzed. Right. Fame, you know, things like even in All Too well, where she says, you know, you don't return my scarf because it smells.

[A]

Because reminds you of innocence. And it smells like me.

[B]

Smells like me. And the smells like is a reference,

[A]

is an allusion to Smells Like Spirit.

[B]

Smells Like Team Spirit. And so we've gone through many, many songs, and she doesn't choose words by accident.

[A]

She doesn't fuck around, man.

[B]

Okay, so let's. So then we have the chorus again where she repeats, can I go where you go? So now it's taking on a little bit of a. More. Maybe not quite so romantic.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The second time she mentions it, it's like, well, why does he keep going? You know?

[A]

I know.

[B]

This kind of reminded me, even though

[A]

he's a man, dude. Man. Men are actually trash. Well, you guys don't know this, but I knew this.

[B]

Comes out in 2019, the Lover album. In the next album, which is Midnights. No, no, no.

[A]

Oh, my God, you're right. Duh. Folklore, Folklore. What a terrible person I am.

[B]

This song reminds me also a little of Cardigan, because the guy keeps leaving.

[A]

Yeah, he keeps leaving.

[B]

You keep coming.

[A]

He knows that you'd come back to me. And come back to me. And come back to me.

[B]

You come back to me. You come back to me.

[A]

What a silly billy.

[B]

Which glosses over the fact that what

[A]

that means is you keep leaving. I made a heart. Speaking of lover, there you go, My little fidget. Wow. Isn't that beautiful, you guys?

[B]

That is so beautiful.

[A]

Even when I haven't taken my Adderall, I'm still a beautiful. You know, I. I can still produce beautiful things.

[B]

Wait, is this the. Is this the thing I gave you?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Oh, this is the fidget.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Oh, show people the fidget. Because I think this is another.

[A]

I'm gonna be one of those people were like, here are all my fidgets, and I am that person. I have so many freaking fidgets, you guys. It's truly insane. This is a nice fidget, you guys. I can make so many different freaking shapes with this one. I've become, like, avant garde with the shapes that I made. So, like, I will here we can keep talking, but I'll shape talking and

[B]

you occasionally show us shapes.

[A]

So long to figure out that I figured out one day sitting in my. In my. In my high school's health center, like, I was so bored. I was sick and I was like, literally, like, feverish. But I did this shape and I was like, mind blown. And I think my fever just evaporated because of how mind blowing this shape was. So let's keep talking, but I'll show

[B]

you the shape, right? And since we're talking about the song, that's the sequel to Cruel Summer, which starts with a fever fever dream.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

It all makes sense.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

I'm just saying as a sort of sidebar, actionable item, if you know someone who. Who likes fidgets, this is a really good. And by the way, whoever you are out there who makes this, if you

[A]

want, this is such a peak fidget. I love this freaking fidget. I hope whoever made this fidget sleeps really well tonight. Like, seriously, like, I hope you have the best sleep sleep of their, like, entire life.

[B]

And I'm just saying that.

[A]

That

[B]

if you want to be a sponsor for us, we. We will. We will testimonial you.

[A]

I will absolutely be a sponsor for whatever. Who the hell. Whoever the hell made this toy. Seriously, the most intelligent human being on this planet, or at least the most beautiful. So let's speak of sponsor.

[B]

We do have a sponsor and we

[A]

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[B]

Dude, let's do the very, very big deal bridge.

[A]

Okay, let's do it.

[B]

This bridge is really important. She really liked this bridge. She says it's one of her best bridges.

[A]

This is a really good bridge. I do quite like it. I was kind of. I remember seeing this bridge for the first time. Watching it. I think it was either on Stephen Colbert or snl. She performed the song and I remember when she did it because I was watching. And here's the shape. By the way, You sound not amazed. Can you be amazed at this shape?

[B]

I will. I will do my acting job. I've seen them. That's incredible. This is like a Rubik's cube.

[A]

Nobody has ever seen this shape in their life.

[B]

Oh, no one's ever seen this shape.

[A]

It was like phenomenal. Never ever, ever. That's how amazing it is. Yeah. Okay, the bridge. Ladies and gentlemen, will you please stand? With every guitar string scar on my hand I take this magnetic foot force of a man to be my lover. My heart's been borrowed and yours has been blue. All's well that ends well to end up with you. Swear to be over dramatic and true to my lover and you'll see.

[B]

No, no, we'll come. We'll come back to this.

[A]

I was just getting into it. Okay, like, fine. Like, no, like, yeah, fine. Interrupt me. It's fine. Women's History month isn't like quite here yet.

[B]

Just doing the bridge. The bridge is a very long bridge. This is a long bridge.

[A]

My favorite line is with every guitar string scar on my hand because I feel like it's. I mean, we've talked about that line before. Like, I think even before we started this podcast. One of the things, I mean, like, seriously, I remember being. I remember being in middle school talking about this song with my dad. Oh, what a nerd. Anyway, continue.

[B]

So she breaks.

[A]

I'm just kidding. I love you, dad.

[B]

She breaks the fourth wall.

[A]

She doesn't even say I love you back.

[B]

I love you, my daughter.

[A]

All men are trash. I'm just kidding.

[B]

No, sweet buddy. Well, you were saying it kind of ironically.

[A]

No, I wasn't.

[B]

Oh, you were me.

[A]

Love you, dad. Okay, wait, continue.

[B]

So this. She breaks the fourth wall. Ladies and gentlemen, will you please stand? Right. I mean, you know, it's. It's either a soliloquy, it's not really. She's directing to the audience.

[A]

Right, right. And this is supposed to mimic a wedding very clearly. I think most people, even people who are not, you know, song analyzers can pretty much guess that.

[B]

Well, that's be. And of course she says, my heart's been borrowed and yours has been blue. Right.

[A]

Something borrowed, something blue.

[B]

Yeah. And the famous.

[A]

Oh my God. Wait. Oh my God, wait, I never got that. Something borrowed, something blue. Just because that's something that like old people like, oh my God, like, who even cares? Like, the first time I ever heard of that was like in a New Girl episode because, like, who cares?

[B]

Like, it's old. Something borrowed, something blue. Well, something borrowed, something new, something old and something new. Right. Those are the four things.

[A]

Like, what the hell are you talking about?

[B]

Like, well, those are the four things that supposed to bring good luck to a wedding, right.

[A]

Why is that like an English tradition or what?

[B]

I don't know where it comes from. It's just one of those weird old things. Again, she's. These are basically sort of wedding vow, her side of wedding.

[A]

These are wedding vow esque.

[B]

Wedding vow esque.

[A]

And my heart's been borrowed.

[B]

And as you say with every guitar string, scar on my hand is a great line.

[A]

It's a wonderful line.

[B]

Again, she's also semi breaking the fourth one because. Right. She's talking about her.

[A]

She's Taylor Swift and she is a singer songwriter and she learned how to play the guitar at 13. And she played. The first time she played a guitar, she played until her finger started bleeding. So the story goes.

[B]

Yes. And she said that, look, if you marry someone, they have to take you, scars and all.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Right. And now we also know from Cruel Summer here is where we get the iron ironic part.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Which, which is that he kind of causes some of these scars, Right. Where does he say, this summer's a knife? I'm always waiting for you just to cut to the bone.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So devils roll the dice, angels roll their eyes and if I bleed, you'll be the last to know. Yeah.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I'm familiar.

[B]

Yes. So the point is that, yeah, maybe she has scars, but some of them are maybe from this guy.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

But what hasn't a man given you scars.

[B]

I take this magnetic force of a man. Okay, so this guy is. Is irresistible to. To her magnetic force. Like physics.

[A]

Another shape.

[B]

Yes. Wow.

[A]

Another shape.

[B]

This one's more of a DNA type of thing. Double helix almost.

[A]

You could say it's a double helix.

[B]

Speaking of science, magnetic force. You're studying electricity and magnetism, are you not?

[A]

Oh, my fucking God. Hey, guys, if you ever want to study physics in college, don't just decide that you shouldn't do it. Because if you have to ever take electricity and magnetism, you will be crawling on your hands and knees begging your professor to give you extra credit when I tell you that everybody I know was talking about how crazy this freaking midterm was. Dude, there's this rule called the Kershaw's rule. You can look it up. You're supposed to use loops in a circuit. There were six loops. How am I supposed to do that? Like how. And they all intersect. Shut up. Anyway.

[B]

All right, all right.

[A]

No, I'm just kidding. I love you, dad. Okay, but like, I hate this. Anyway, continue.

[B]

Just coincidence that we're talking. You just took your physics midterm on electricity and magnetism. And we have the magnetic force. But the point is, this guy is very. Has a animal magnetism. Right? That's the other magnetic. Right. Is animal magnetism. She is really, really drawn to this guy. Which we knew. If it's the same guy from Cruel Summer, we knew that she couldn't resist this guy. Right? Then we get the line, my heart's been borrowed. So clearly. Right? So she's saying, I've guys have borrowed my heart. But they didn't keep it. They never kept it. Sad face.

[A]

They always wanted to take her out, but no one ever wants to take her home. That's an Ethel Cain lyric. Should like talk about volcano.

[B]

And yours has been blue. So he's been sad. My frowny face.

[A]

Oh, no. A man gets sad.

[B]

Now we get another killer line.

[A]

All's well that ends well to end up with you.

[B]

Right?

[A]

I love this line. I was just thinking about this line. I was like, damn, this is a good line.

[B]

All's well that ends well, not coincidentally, is a Shakespeare play.

[A]

Is it? Actually, that's funny.

[B]

It is.

[A]

I think. I don't know. I don't know if she knew that. I think that's a very common expression. I could see.

[B]

What if I told you what the song. What the play was about?

[A]

What?

[B]

It's a very weird play. It's called one of his problem plays that he wrote later with Problem play? Yeah, those plays after he wrote the great tragedies and the great comedies.

[A]

You know what problem plays are?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So this play, even though the Tempest came later, so, you know, that's.

[B]

The Tempest was near the very end, and that was a masterpiece. But these other ones are.

[A]

These other ones were some questionable plays, you guys.

[B]

This is a very weird play. So in. In this play, the short version, is that a young woman of low means,

[A]

like My Fair Lady.

[B]

Yes. Except she is the ward of a countess and the count and is in love with the countess's son, who will give her the time of day because she's low. Low born. So he goes to the court of the king of France, who is very. Who is very sick. He's taking place of his father, Warren. Now she follows him to the court. Her father was a great healer and herbalist. So she goes to the court, says to the king, I can cure you. And he's like, oh, sure. Everyone has come and said, they can cure me. She says, well, if I can't cure you, may they take my life, but if I can cure you, I get to pick the husband I desire from your court.

[A]

Lol.

[B]

So she does, of course, cure him. She picks this guy Bertram.

[A]

Ew.

[B]

Why is he still can't stand her? So they do get married the minute they're done. He doesn't even kiss her.

[A]

He.

[B]

He just leaves and goes to, like, Italy. Okay. To fight a war. And anyway, it gets very weird because before he goes, he says, I wouldn't marry you unless you have my kid and have my ring.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

So she has to go through an elaborate exercise in Italy to replace this woman that he's trying to cheat with. Replaces her in bed so he can get pregnant by him.

[A]

Duffer.

[B]

Yes. And then she later comes and pretends to be dead. Hello. All of this is to get him finally to see how much she loves him. And in fact, he does declare his. He says, well, you've.

[A]

You.

[B]

You've done all this for me, you know? I do love you.

[A]

Oh, my God. God. Men will make you perform impossible cures and spend your time and money going to a random country and, like, make you replace them in bed. And then after that, they'll be like, wow, maybe you're not, like, the worst. Jesus Christ.

[B]

So we'll see. Why. I do think that she knew the

[A]

reason that it was hated is probably just because Shakespeare was capturing a zeitgeist that came, like, 600 years later.

[B]

Well, now, let's just say that I'm not Alone in thinking that this was not accidental by Taylor Swift. This is about a woman who's very desperate to marry a man who does not think she is worthy. And she goes to extraordinary lengths. And it does have a happy ending. But it's kind of dubious that in the real play, in the real world, that after all that this would be a happy ending. Ending. But that's what happens in this play. And then she ends her vows with swear I. I swear to be over dramatic and true to my lover.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So, okay, that's. You wouldn't obviously actually have that as a real wedding vow.

[A]

I would.

[B]

But the other interesting thing is she never says anything about husband. She's. She says, I take this magnetic force of a man to be my lover, not my husband. Right. This. This vow she's doing is not. She wants to get married, but she won't say it. Right. And I know.

[A]

Always lie. You know what I'm saying? Like, they always never say what's on their mind. They just expect men to understand. Men have it so hard.

[B]

In case. In case it wasn't clear exactly how weird this song is, she throws in the outro, which you may now sing, if you don't mind my daughter.

[A]

Yeah. And you'll save all your dirtiest jokes for me. And at every table, I'll save you a seat, lover.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. So the best that he's gonna do for her is save the dirtiest jokes for me. I mean, who else would he be telling the dirtiest jokes to? Some other guy or woman? I mean, what kind of a request is. That's like the least I would think a woman could ask of a man. Right? Is don't tell other women your dirty jokes. Let's say, please save him for me. It's just not much of a request. The weirder thing is what she promises to do for him at every table. I'll save you a seat. Well, why would you have to save him a seat? Because he didn't show up with you. Oh, that's the only reason you save someone a seat, Right. They didn't show up with you. So apparently he does this a lot. Right. This. This again gets to this whole cardigan idea.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Not the greatest guy in the world. I mean, I don't know else how you read that line. I mean, I. I think so.

[A]

I mean, I guess I haven't really thought about how weird. I'll save all your dirt. Because she could have made the line literally anything else.

[B]

She could.

[A]

Very intentional line.

[B]

She. And yet she chose a Line that suggests like a lot of this other song, right? Can I go where you go? Right. He's always going somewhere else and maybe he shows up to.

[A]

I know where he going. Where he going.

[B]

Yeah. And so then we get. And now finally we repeat the chorus and it again. Now the whole chorus again takes on, you know, can I go where you go? Okay, well now it's a bit weirder, right?

[A]

I know. Now it's like, the fuck are you going?

[B]

Can we always be this close? Forever and ever. Now it's. And take, ah, Take me out and take me home. Okay, well if you take me out, then we'll. I don't have to save you a seat, right? I mean that's apparently again circles. It just turns and that's. Yeah, it just turns the whole chorus. So I do think. I know you're often skeptical of my theories at the beginning.

[A]

Often skeptical about your theories.

[B]

But I hope you will concede.

[A]

I think this is an interesting theory. I don't know if you've ever heard of the YouTuber named Matpat who runs this channel called Game Theory, but he comes up with really, really crazy theory about like the lore and canon of games. And it sounds really crazy because he picks up on details that are definitely there, but I don't think the person put them in intentionally. And it's just sometimes you do that, but it's okay because sometimes he low key, like predicts things before they even happen. And you know what? I'm willing to give this one to you because I think that, you know what? Why not? Thank God, Why not?

[B]

You have made my day.

[A]

Hashtag believemen. Let's start it. Let's start it going.

[B]

Look, the difference between this guy and Taylor Swift is that we know Taylor doesn't do all the things in this lyrics by accident, right? This is. This is not a whole bunch of accidental lyrics that just happen to appear to make this a sequel to Cruel Summer and not a terribly well.

[A]

And discussing the video, the video does suggest that perhaps there is some difference because in the end they end up married. And it turns out that the person who was looking at this little house received it as a snow globe as a present for Christmas. And it's their child.

[B]

Yes. And whether they're married or not at that point isn't clear. I was trying to see if either of them were married.

[A]

I mean, I feel like. Yeah, I think at that point she

[B]

did get in the music. The music video has a happy ending. Right? And it turns out. But. And by the way, for those of you who have seen the movie Citizen

[A]

Kane, which I have not.

[B]

The twist ending here has echoes of Citizen Kane, which opens with. With Orson Welles as Citizen Kane dying and a snow globe that he was holding drops out of his hand and he says Rosebud. And the whole movie is about figuring out what Rosebud meant. And we never find out until the final scene. The reporter trying to figure it out never finds it out. But the final scene gives the reveal which I would never spoil for what this is considered to be one of the greatest movies of all time. But it. Again, it involves a snow globe and I don't. Again, again, I don't think think it's a total accident that this has a snow globe too and a surprise ending.

[A]

That iconography has become pretty popular.

[B]

It has, but it's becoming part. It's become popular cultivars so much probably by Citizen Games.

[A]

Right?

[B]

Yeah. So yeah, I think that I consider the brilliant song. I just love.

[A]

It's a great song.

[B]

The one other thing that I want to. To say my.

[A]

What is that one other thing?

[B]

What's your real twist song? This song has only one but in. Has only.

[A]

That's kind of shocking.

[B]

It is. And it has like 17 ands. The only but interesting. I've loved you through summers now But I want them all. Here's the amazing thing about this song. It breaks the rules of narrative. Nothing happens in this song. Nothing happens in this song. It starts with a hypothetical and it talks. It creates a mood. And she asks questions. Can I go where you go? Can this. This the ladies and gentlemen. And this is just this hypothetical nothing. There is no narrative. There's nothing that happens in this song. It is quite amazing. I don't know that she's written another song where nothing happens.

[A]

It's true. And you don't even notice it because it just feels it's all in her mind. It's like I'm reading right now. I'm reading Kazuo Ishiguro's Never Let Me Go, partly for my creative writing class. But also we were only supposed to read half an excerpt. But I read the entire thing because I was like, fuck, this is really good. And what's fascinating to me about that book is that for the first part of it, a lot of it, it's all. First of all, it's all told in retrospective. But a lot of it is told retrospective within the retrospective. So you realize that literally nothing has happened in the present. It's just memories. It's just like there's one scene where it's completely hypothetically where it's just her considering and you only realize that it's just her thoughts about a certain thing until like the end of the scene. It's very. It's just. It's wonderfully written. I would recommend Kazuo Ishiguro to anybody who's a fan of literature writing who wants to be better at telling stories. Like, who's. I mean, like seriously. There's a reason that in the introductory course to creative writing for creative writing majors, they will make you like read an excerpt from this. Like it's. It's just.

[B]

How do you spell it for? Because I'm not certain.

[A]

But for those Never Let Me Go is the book. It's very famous. Kazuo is a K, A Z U O and then I S H I G U R O. He's a Japanese British novelist and screenwriter. Won the Nobel Prize in literature. Holy moly. That's crazy. I love him. I love him. He's really good.

[B]

Taylor, as you've seen, likes to experiment with lots of different things. And I consider, and I think this

[A]

is, like I said, his wife is super lucky.

[B]

A very experimental song in some respects. And when you see the music video, you realize she's imagining the whole thing is occurring in the mind of a child. Right. I mean, in some sense. But yeah, look, this is a great song, this song. And so is Cruel Summer. And Rob Sheffield, the guy who is the Taylor whisperer for Rolling Stone, has ranked all 280 of her songs and he puts this song at number seven.

[A]

So yeah, this is a really, really, really good song.

[B]

It's a really good song. And like, like other of her great songs, the close reading can turn the meaning on its head. Yeah, which is what happened with Shake it off where she tells everyone to shake it off, but she doesn't really shake things off.

[A]

She has not shaken. She has not shooken it off.

[B]

Right. Anyway, I mean, but it's shaken alright.

[A]

Well, yeah, I guess so. I guess this is the end, you guys. If you have any fun dirty jokes,

[B]

leave them in the comments and please save a seat for me at your table. I hope if you like this show you'll tell your friends you'll give us a good rating.

[A]

Give us a thumbs up. Ring the bell. Subscribe.

[B]

There's no. We don't have a subscription. But okay, what they should do is go to liquidiv.com if you want to buy a great.

[A]

Because then we actually get paid. Did you know that we don't even get paid to do this. We do it for the love of the game, for the love of the bit even. Hopefully we get paid in the future. That's.

[B]

We're working on it.

[A]

But if you use the discount code to get some liquid iv, then maybe we get paid. So if you want to help out a broke college student and her father who is a single father living in an apartment, you know, help them out.

[B]

Code decoding. The code is [e-mail] exactly. Until next time where we are going to do the Archer.

[A]

I love that song, guys.

[B]

I love that song, which is one of my daughter's favorites.

[A]

It's just a. It's a fantastic song.

[B]

Anyway, we'll be talking about it next week.

[A]

Next week.

[B]

Ciao.

[A]

Bye bye.

[D]

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Close your eyes. Exhale. Feel your body relax. And let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh, my gosh, they're so fun, fast. And breathe.

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