The REAL meaning of Swift’s Wish List, what the critics get wrong, & our amazing Spotify Wrapped

Summary

Decoding Taylor Swift

Episode: The REAL meaning of Swift’s Wish List, what the critics get wrong, & our amazing Spotify Wrapped

Hosts: Joe Romm & Toni Romm
Date: December 9, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Joe and Toni Romm take a deep dive into Taylor Swift’s song “Wish List” from her showgirl-themed album. They challenge common misinterpretations of the track, explore Swift’s sophisticated use of irony and fantasy in her lyrics, and decode how these storytelling techniques can teach us all to communicate more effectively. Along the way, they celebrate their own Spotify Wrapped milestones and share music recommendations and personal anecdotes, all in their signature father-daughter banter.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Celebrating Podcast Achievements & Spotify Wrapped

Timestamps: 00:47–03:23

• The Romms thank their “Franz” (friends + fans) for their show’s success, highlighting three major Spotify Wrapped awards:
  • Instant Hit Award: Debut season was more popular than 98% of other new shows.
  • Marathon Show Award: Listeners stayed tuned in longer than 97% of other shows.
  • Most Shared Show Award: More shares than 97% of shows.
• Playful jabs at other prominent podcasters (“We’re coming for you, Pod Save America!”) and shoutouts to their community for driving engagement.
• Invitation to interact: “Would you please leave us messages on Spotify and we will reply...we really want to talk to you.” – Joe, [02:00]

2. Introducing & Contextualizing “Wish List”

Timestamps: 03:24–05:46

• Toni outlines the central theme: the showgirl persona doesn’t typically settle, and the song is an exploration of fantasy, not reality.
  • “It’s very interesting that she...ideates about settling down...she specifically does not mention actually being able to do that.” – Toni, [03:41]
• Joe references Taylor’s Jimmy Fallon interview, where she likened the song to Adam Sandler’s “Happy Place” in Happy Gilmore:
  • "I just wanted a chorus that basically shows you what mine is... it’s like, this is a unique utopia for me. That’s where I go when I'm stressed out." – Paraphrasing Taylor via Joe, [04:00]
• Key lyric motif: The word “utopia” literally means “nowhere”—this is important for interpretation.

3. Lyric Analysis: Satire, Fantasy, and Irony

Timestamps: 05:47–18:29

Material Fantasies & Unattainable Desires

• Lyrics reference "yacht life", “bright lights”, “Balenci shades”, and “fat ass with a baby face” as intentionally over-the-top.
  • “This is the Barbie doll or whatever you want to call it...she’s foreshadowing that it’s unattainable.” – Joe, [06:53]
• Debate about whether the tone is purely satirical (Joe) or has a hint of sincere desire (Toni).
  • Toni: “I’d say it’s tongue in cheek, but I think...part of her genuinely would like this, and that’s fine.” [09:02]
• Critique of media literalism: Many critics misinterpret these lyrics as Swift’s “real plan,” missing the satirical layer.

On Feminism and Wealth

• Addressing the criticism that “Wish List” is tone-deaf because Swift is a billionaire.
  • “Feminism is intertwined with every other type of equality, and that includes wealth equality.” – Toni, [13:03]
  • Joe defends Taylor as a “new billionaire,” noting that her financial ascent is recent and motivated by the need to reclaim her music.

The Fantasy of Normalcy & Privacy

• Lyrics paint an impossible picture: having kids, living on a normal block, being left alone by the world.
  • “There’s a tinge of...she can’t have this...she can’t have the thing that regular people have anymore.” – Joe, [15:04]
• The line “We tell the world to leave us the fuck alone and they do—wow”—emphasized as clear sarcasm.
  • “It’s basically...she’s not celebrating that this is her plan. She’s just saying, wouldn’t it be mind-blowing, right, for this to happen, but she can’t do it.” – Joe, [16:21]

Contradictions and Satirical Elements

• Examination of the chorus: “Boss up, settle down”—contradictory aspirations.
  • “Boss up is usually the opposite of settle down...this is the having it all, right? Even Taylor can’t...pick both.” – Joe, [17:15]
• “Everything else is the wish list, which she knows she can’t really have. But I just want you.” – Joe, [18:15]

4. Cultural References & Media Critique

Timestamps: 29:27–31:44

• Criticism of literal readings in the media, such as Cosmopolitan’s claim that Swift “rejects fame for Travis Kelce and kids.”
  • “She’s acknowledging that she has a...her fantasy is where she isn’t famous. But she’s not going to pursue the world where she’s not famous.” – Joe, [31:00]
• Taylor draws on “Happy Gilmore” for metaphorical framing—the podcast uses this to stress how "Wish List" is Swift’s own “happy place.”

5. The Bridge: Earnestness Amidst the Satire

Timestamps: 24:09–28:09

• Lyrics describe past failed relationships ("I thought I had it right once, twice // But I did not...").
• Notable wordplay: “You caught me off my guard,” referencing partner Travis Kelce’s football career.
• “What’s interesting about the bridge versus the chorus is...she’s not being sarcastic of herself. This is the earnest part.” – Joe, [28:02]
• Toni and Joe agree: the “I just want you” refrain is genuine, the rest is tongue-in-cheek fantasy.

6. Taylor Swift’s Storytelling Techniques & Critical Plea

Timestamps: 28:42–36:57

• Analysis of Swift’s frequent use of sarcasm and double meanings.
  • “It’s one of her favorite figures of speech because she used it over and over and over...the entire song, Mr. Perfectly Fine...[is] just sarcasm.” – Joe, [28:42]
  • Reference to “Blank Space” and “Shake It Off” as other songs layered in irony.
• Connection to Shakespeare: Songs function on both surface (literal) and subtextual (figurative, ironic) levels.
  • “This is how Shakespeare wrote plays...for people who want more.” – Joe, [35:52]
• Strong plea to critics:
  • “Please stop saying that every line in one of her songs is something that literally she believes.” – Joe, [33:58]

7. Spotify Wrapped Share & Music Recommendations

Timestamps: 36:57–43:44

• Joe is in the top 2% of Taylor Swift listeners with 2300 minutes—a “professional” effort!
• Toni is in the top 0.2% of Clairo listeners and her playlist skews toward indie/alt-pop.
• Both share their top artists and “listening ages” as calculated by Spotify:
  • “My listening age is 27...just like Taylor Swift.” – Joe, [41:37]
  • “My listening age is 57.” – Toni, [41:44]
• Music recommendations: Clairo for Folklore fans, Electric Lady recordings, Chapel Roan, Fontaine’s DC, The Smiths.
• Lighthearted comparison of ages and playful generational ribbing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You guys are like the type of people that I would like to do group projects with in English.” – Toni, [01:52]
• “This song is not a plan. This song is... like Dwight Schrute trying to steal the Mona Lisa. He’s not gonna do it, but he has thought about it just quite a lot.” – Toni, [04:28]
• “To be clear, utopia, the word, literally means nowhere.” – Joe, [05:11]
• “Boss up is usually the opposite of settle down...this is the having it all.” – Joe, [17:17]
• "She is not celebrating that this is her plan. She's just saying, wouldn't it be mind-blowing...but she can't do it." – Joe, [16:21]
• “I made wishes on all of the stars, even though now she does not have to knock on wood. Let's say, use superstition. Please, please, God, bring me a best friend who I think is hot so real...” – Toni, reading lyrics, [24:15]
• “It’s one of the reasons she is very successful is that her songs have multiple meanings...just like Shakespeare.” – Joe, [35:52]
• “Please stop saying that every line in one of her songs is something that literally she believes.” – Joe, [33:58]

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Key Takeaways

• “Wish List” is primarily a fantasy, packed with irony—not a literal declaration of Taylor’s intentions.
• Swift’s “wish list” is unattainable by design; it’s a utopian escape reflecting normalcy she knows she can’t have.
• The chorus’s contradictions and over-the-top materialism are satirical, while the “I just want you” lines are heartfelt and real.
• Media and critics often misinterpret Swift by taking lyrics literally; listeners are encouraged to look for double meanings and subtext.
• Swift’s storytelling mastery, embracing both sarcasm and directness, is what makes her a “modern-day Shakespeare.”
• The Romms celebrate their “Franz” community, share their own music obsessions, and encourage listeners to embrace nuance in both art and life.

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For Listeners & Swifties

If you care about the deeper storytelling strategies in Taylor Swift’s songwriting—and want to get better at decoding layered narratives—this episode is a masterclass in reading between the lines (with plenty of father-daughter jokes and music geekery thrown in).

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Note: This summary skips advertisements and non-content, focusing solely on discussion, analysis, and storytelling technique.

Transcript

[A]

Hi there. This is Decoding Taylor Swift Season 2, where we dig into the deeper meaning of the life of a showgirl. Today, we'll transform how you think about Wish List with the help of my swifty father, a storytelling expert recognized by Rolling Stone magazine. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

Hi, I'm Joe Rowe, and my daughter Antonia is great at decoding lyrics, writing, and making people laugh. And Taylor Swift is a modern day Shakespeare.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I believe this may be the album's most misunderstood song. So be sure to stay to the end, since we're not only going to explain what it really means, but we're also going to discuss the storytelling trick Taylor is using that you can use also. But first, we really want to thank all our Franz friends because the Spotify wrapped France.

[A]

You don't want to think France.

[B]

They're the kind of cross between friends and fans.

[A]

That was it. Yes. That's so true.

[B]

They're friends.

[A]

Wow. That's 2026's Word of the year.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Look, we were just blown away by the Spotify rap.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Seriously, this is one of the three big awards that Spotify gave us.

[A]

The.

[B]

Oh, excuse me, Here we go. The instant hit award.

Your debut season was more popular than 98% of the other new shows.

[A]

Take that, other people who do podcasts.

[B]

Is the second medal we got. We got a 2025 Marath Show Award.

[A]

Say that to all their podcasts.

[B]

And that means fans listen to you for longer than 97% of other shows.

[A]

That's pretty crazy. So you guys are really freaking great, man.

[B]

People are going. Seriously, they are listening. They're going back and listening to the first season where we really dive into the. The. Some of the storytelling secrets that Taylor uses.

[A]

You guys are like the type of people that I would like to do group projects with in English.

[B]

Yes. So all of you guys who are the big F, would you please leave us messages on Spotify and we will reply because we really want to, you know.

[A]

Yeah, we'll interact, man, if you have questions. Not weird if I do it too, because I'm like a young girl especially. So, you know, we're kind of on the same footing, power dynamic wise. And we really want to talk to you.

[B]

Absolutely. And we will read your questions. And.

[A]

And he's an old guy. Think of him as like a sage, if you will.

[B]

Well, and here is the other one. A 2025 most shared show, which means you received more shares than 97% of other shows. You guys are sharing us. Who's the 3%.

It'S something for us to work towards.

[A]

Favreau, Jon Lovett, Tommy Vitor, and Dan Pfeiffer. We're coming for you.

[B]

Alrighty. And Joe Budden, of course.

[A]

Oh, my God. No, we've surpassed Joe Budden. Well, Joe Budden. More like Joe. More like we're Budden.

[B]

There you go. Alrighty. So again, you know, this just really blew us away because we see the statistics for our show, but we don't see the comparison statistics until Spotify drops its big rapped and. Alrighty. So we. Thank you. And now let's dive into Wishlist, because I do. I do think this song seems very simple on the surface, but I think it's. I think it's misunderstood, I think. So let's.

[A]

Yeah, he thinks about, you know, everything being misunderstood. I can't lie. But by the way, great job on that intro. That was engrossing as hell. Why don't we go through some of the lyrics?

[B]

Alrighty.

[A]

I'll give a little overview, though.

[B]

Give a little over. Why don't you start with a little overview and then we will. Yeah.

[A]

I think the album being about the life of a showgirl, you know, you don't typically see showgirls settling down is the main thing that I been thinking about when I think about this. It's very interesting that she. On her album dedicated to her life and show business. She ideates about settling down with her. With her little boyf. In the song, she specifically does not mention actually being able to do that. You know, she's mentioning this kind of imaginary fairy tale world.

[B]

Exactly. This is a fantasy. Said that on.

[A]

I thought you might agree with that.

[B]

Yes, this is a fantasy. She said that on Jimmy Fallon. And I think there's so much critique of this song and as if she means each. Each line as like a plan. This is her plan. This song is not.

[A]

This is her plan.

[B]

This song is.

[A]

This is like if Dwight Schrute were trying to steal a painting, trying to steal the Mona Lisa. Like, he's not gonna do it, but he has thought about it just quite a lot. Yeah.

[B]

Let's. Let me frame this song with what she said on Jimmy Fallon. She said in Happy Gilmore, Adam Sandler has his happy place. This is the. And that's where he goes when he's stressed out. And I just wanted a chorus that basically shows you what mine is and sounds exactly like mine would sound. It's like, this is a unique utopia for me. That's where I go when I'm stressed out. Is that fantasy okay, and to be clear, utopia, the word literally means nowhere.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Right. So this is not a place.

[A]

Well, the other thing is that this song is connected in my mind, you know, based on what you just said. Just thinking about this. I hate it here. It's a very similar song. Talking about going places in her mind that only she knows. But this time, you know, there's a big departure from that. She's talking about bringing Travis Kelce along with her. Well, we can dive in a little bit.

[B]

Let's dive in. Let's dive in. They want that yacht life under chopper blades. They want those bright lights and balency shades and. And a fat ass with a baby face. They want it all.

[A]

Yeah, and some people don't want it because they already got it. Amen.

[B]

So, okay, people maybe dream about a yacht life with a yacht so big you can land a helicopter on it, right?

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

Right. So this is a very elite sort of wish. Again, it's a fantasy. Maybe a fantasy of a lot of people, but it's not like a plan, right? This is just an over the top fantasy. Bright lights, right? That could be show business, something, or just the red carpet.

[A]

Yeah, or like electricians. I'm sure they dream of bright lights.

[B]

It could be. Although I guess you could be an electrician wearing balency shades, you know, because look, electricians have. Make a good living.

[A]

Make pretty good living.

[B]

And a fat ass with a baby face. This seems to be the expression of the difficult female ideal. Right? She's talking about.

[A]

That's so true. Say more about that.

[B]

Say more about that again. This is a fantasy, right? This is the Barbie doll or whatever you want to call it, Right.

[A]

She's foreshadowing that it's unattainable.

[B]

Right? They want it all. And I hope everybody understands you can't have it all. I mean, even as we'll see, Taylor Swift can't have it all. In fact.

[A]

Yeah, here's the other thing, is that she is engrossed in Chopin's ness, but she does also have an absolutely insane amount of money. So if anybody could make some of this happen, it's her. Which is my. Which is my other thought. Two warring thoughts have struck me. One, that the criticisms for this song come from a place, I think of misogyny. I think when you want to talk about feminism, you cannot exclude any type of wishes, right. That women want for themselves. Right? People should be able to engage, disengage, you know, be. And live the life that they want. Now, I think that until we get there, people have to be engaged and really fight for the rights that we deserve. But at this point in time, since she's ideating. Yeah. You know, this is the life that she wants. She just wants to be happy, like we all do. Well, but the other. The other thought in my mind.

[B]

Please.

[A]

She is one of the richest people alive right now. She has a billion dollars. Well, their combined net worth is $1.67 billion.

[B]

Really? 1.67? You. You.

[A]

Yeah, it's 1.67 billion. 1.67 billion. I'm gonna like. Okay, we're done with this. No, I'm just kidding.

Sorry, guys. It seems like she has so much. I don't know, it's this weird space where she's very rich and she's saying, like, oh, other rich people want this stuff with their money, but I just want you. She casts herself as a normal person.

[B]

Can we come back to this all completely?

[A]

A normal person.

[B]

I'd like to come back to this because I think this song is mostly satirical and that.

[A]

But I don't think every song of hers has. It can't be all satirical.

[B]

It can't be. I just think this one is. But let's see. Let's. Let's go through. Why don't you.

[A]

I mean, some of it is. I'd say it's tongue in cheek, but I think it's complete satire.

[B]

Well, let's. Let's. Let's.

[A]

I think part of her genuinely would like this, and that's fine. But I.

[B]

Well, let's see what this is. Why don't you. Let's. Let's keep going.

[A]

Okay, well, you continue.

[B]

They want that complex female character. They want that critical smash Palme Dior and an Oscar on their bathroom floor. They want it all.

Now, that's over the top. I think what she's saying here is she's talking about an actress, an actress who wants a complex female character. The critical smash Palm Dior. Just to be clear, that's awarded once.

[A]

A year for a director.

[B]

Right. For a director at Cannes. Very, very hard to get. Very, very prestigious. And an Oscar on their bathroom floor. Right. Which is so much success. Right. That you're just leaving your damn Oscar on the bathroom floor. Right. It's a casual thing. Again, I kind of view this line as pretty sat. Right. A pretty elite group of people would want this. And I think she's kind of making fun, a little bit of somebody who would want so much recognition here that an Oscar doesn't even matter to them. Right. And now we'll go to the chorus. You want to do the chorus?

[A]

I'm gonna be real. It's. I'm working with one screen today, Joseph, so I can't be pulling up these lyrics. But you. You should.

[B]

We're gonna have to raise your technological capability here.

[A]

Can you pay me more if you start paying. I thought we got you screens as you want.

[B]

Didn't we get you an iPad?

[A]

It's true, we did. And that iPad is.

A good point.

[B]

All right.

[A]

It's a good point. It's a great point, even.

[B]

It's a really nice device for lyrics.

[A]

Sometimes men, I mean, they are. Right.

[B]

I'd say a good one. Out of five times we are shooting for. Certainly my aspiration is 25%.

[A]

Times, like, this is like, okay, wow, I'll do it.

[B]

And they should have what they want. They deserve what they want. Hope they.

[A]

Hope they get what they want.

[B]

I just want. You have a couple kids, got the whole block looking like you.

[A]

A lot of kids.

[B]

We tell the world to leave us the fuck alone and they do.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Got me dreaming Bout a driveway with a basketball hoop Boss up, settle down got a wish list I just want you.

[A]

That's beautiful, dad.

[B]

Okay, that is also a very interesting chorus. I'm gonna interpret it and. They should have what they want. Well, why should they have what they want? They deserve what they want. Well, again, is. Does she really believe that, or is she just saying that?

[A]

Because that's. I mean, personally, I think this is. It's rhetoric. Right. The implied meaning is that. Right. Like, you know, they can have what they want, they deserve what they want. They can get what they want. She doesn't really care.

[B]

Right, Right. Well, and it's. I think she's being a little sarcastic because she said, look, if. If you. You want this, a Palm d' or, and you want Oscar on your bathroom floor and you want a yacht with chopper blades.

[A]

Yeah, it feels a little crazy. Okay, here's a better articulation of what I was saying earlier.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It feels a little crazy for her to say that because she can just, like, if she could. Right.

[B]

She could have it. Well, she couldn't have the Palme d' or necessarily. It's hard to get a Palme d' or in the Oscar.

[A]

But she could have. She could fully have yacht life, choppers, no question.

[B]

So you have some more thoughts at this point?

[A]

Yeah, I tend to be on the Billie Eilish kind of ideology around billionaires where I think there's nothing wrong with wealth. As a concept, if you're living in a capitalist society, if you're working hard for your money, which she certainly has, it's completely fine. You know, you deserve it, you earned it. But a billion dollars is the type of money that could cut homelessness. It's like the type of money that could alleviate an entire college's worth of student debt. You know, the school that I'm in is in a lot of debt. When you have that much money, I think it's. It feels like, you know, running along, having these little fantasies, writing these albums, doing all of this and all of that. Feminism is intertwined with every other type of equality, and that includes wealth equality. You have no comments for that, capitalist.

[B]

My comment is that some people have thought this song is tone deaf because she is a billionaire. Now, I will say a couple things. You know, personally, she's a new billionaire, Right. I mean, she. She. This is all the heiress to her. Right. I mean, those last few years.

[A]

And so you're saying, let her have a few years.

[B]

I'm saying let her have a few years. She wanted the money so she could buy her songs back.

[A]

That's true. Her album has a billion dollars.

[B]

Yeah. No, no, she does. I'm. Well, she has the asset she's worth. When people say you're worth 1.7, they're.

[A]

They're going to calculate have a billion dollars. But I will say that she does have the amount of money that could definitely help a lot of people.

[B]

Yeah. And hopefully she will.

[A]

At the very least, the platform.

[B]

I want to hone in on this notion that this is a complete fantasy she's putting on the table because she says, have a couple kids. Got the whole block looking like you.

[A]

Okay, well, a lot of kids or a big block?

[B]

Well, two kids. Right. So let's come back to this because.

[A]

Hey, it's above the replacement rate, so Right. Above the average in America.

[B]

And having the whole block looking like you, let's be honest. Is Travis Lesbian Taylor going to actually live on a regular block?

[A]

Well, that's why the whole block would look like them.

[B]

Yes, exactly. Because it's only them on the block. Right?

[A]

Yeah, I clocked that. I clocked that.

[B]

You clocked that. Yeah. The. The basketball hoop. Right? That's great. But it's not inviting the neighbor kids over. Right. And they're like, hey, just down a block.

[A]

Yeah. The neighbor kids are like Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco's kids.

[B]

Exactly. This is a gated community or, you.

[A]

Know, I mean, and it's like 12 minutes away.

[B]

So there's a tinge of. She can't have this. The thing that she's describing, this fantasy. It's a fantasy for her because she can't have the thing that regular people have anymore. Now again, we're not feeling sorry for her. It's just her fantasy is feel a little sorry.

[A]

I mean, you can feel sorry for. I mean, I don't know. That's why. That's why. There are two warring. There are wolves. There are two wolves in me. There are two wolves. One is the wolf of woke. The other is the wolf of. Well, damn. Sympathy. Yeah, I mean, she says it's not. I think the woke one is also sympathy, but it's sympathy for. It's a.

[B]

It's a sympathy for other people.

[A]

Yes, right. Sympathy for her versus other people.

[B]

Now this other lyric, we tell the world to leave us the fuck alone in. And they do. Okay. Another thing that's not possible. And in fact, there's no evidence that she's actually going to pursue this. I'm going off grid or whatever you want to call it, right. I mean, you'd have to. Right? She's not going to do that. But. And the way she signals it. I think my favorite word in this whole song is the wow.

[A]

Right?

[B]

When you listen to her sing the song. We tell the world to leave us the fuck alone. And they do wow. Right? It's basically. It's sarcasm or it's however you want to describe it. She is not celebrating that this is her plan. She's just saying, wouldn't it be mind blowing, right, that this for this to happen, but she can't do it. This is not. She's chosen her fate. And her fate is not one that allows the kids. Playing on the blocks with the. With the other kids and just running around like crazy. Got me dreaming about a driveway with a basketball hoop. Well, you know, her driveway is a very big driveway and she can have a whole basketball court. So my guess is if she wants the kids to play basketball, you know, whatever she wants.

And then we get even more. A little weird. Boss up, Settled down Got a wish list I just want you. I think so. First of all, boss up is usually the opposite of settle down. You can't really boss up and settle down. I mean, maybe, you know, it's like the fat ass with a baby face. It's just. This is the having it. All right? Even Taylor can't. I mean, pick one. You can't really pick both.

Got a wish list. I just want you. So my interpretation My theory is what she is saying here. Boss up, settle down. This whole thing, wow. You know, leave us the fuck alone. And they do. Right. Boss up, settle down. Got a wish list. I just want you. So everything else is the wish list, which she knows she can't really have. But I just want you.

So I'm. That's how I'm kind of looking at what she's doing. Maybe I'm wrong.

[A]

I think that's a fair interpretation. Yeah, I think that's fair to say that. Think that. Yeah, I think I'm inclined to agree. No arguments from Tony.

[B]

And guess what? One of the things that inspired me to think this is the fate of Ophelia is for the eighth week in a row, the number one song. But number five. This is December. We're now into the holiday season. The number five song on the Billboard Hot 100 is All I Want for Christmas is yous Currently. Currently.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yep. It pops up.

[A]

That's okay. Beautiful.

[B]

So, yeah, this is a little twist on that. This is all she wants. And everything else is this fantasy wishliff. And so let's. Let's go back to. They want that freedom, living off the grid. They want those three dogs that they call the kids and that good serf. No, hypocrites. They want it all. So that's, you know.

[A]

Very millennial wishes.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Three dogs that they call their kids. It's funny, because I know somebody with exactly three dogs, and she refers to them as her children.

[B]

And some people were criticizing Taylor because, of course, Taylor has three cats and. And is a famous cat person and.

[A]

Yes. Well, as she should be. Let me tell you guys something.

You know what? You know what? I think if you're a person who is a cat person, it tells me a lot about your level of empathy. It really does. It really does, because you have to be. So I get people who are dog people. It doesn't mean that they're not empathetic. But when you're a cat person, you got to be patient as hell, because these bitches genuinely are the most temperamental creatures you will ever experience other than men. But, like, genuinely, it's just like, oh, my God, sometimes I, like, want to pet, like, Sugar. Like, I'll pick her up, and she will literally, like, she will literally, like, be like. Like, I have to swaddle her. I have to be like, no, girl. I'm going to carry her.

[B]

She's the skittish one. She is. She is the skittish one.

[A]

Yes. Sugar is skittish. AF and I have to be like, no, sugar. I'm going to support your butt. It's fine. And then she calms down. Then she, like, lets me hold her and pet her. But, like, oatmeal will come up to me. I have to seek out sugar.

[B]

Oatmeal is the sweet one. And it's a tale of two cats.

[A]

Or a tale of two tails.

[B]

Tale of two tails. All right, let's. But again, she throws in this. No hypocrites, because, again, you can't.

[A]

That was odd.

[B]

Live in a. There is no. That's unrealistic. You're not going to go through life and never meet a hypocrite. They want a contract with Real Madrid. A very unrealistic goal. I mean, there's not many people, right, who should. Who could realistically even have this as a fantasy, you know?

[A]

Who's she talking about? I mean, like, good for. I mean, I actually. You know what? I do know a few. Few young men who are like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna go pro. Yeah.

[B]

Well, and. And Right. It is. It is the kind of fantasy where, you know, you're also not going to do it. And that's okay to have those.

[A]

Although I do know somebody who's, like, low key, could be an Olympian in gymnastics. It's, like, crazy.

[B]

Well, and it's worth pointing out that Travis has the equivalent of a contract with Real Madrid, Right? He's one of the A list, a plus list, you know, football players, stars I know, with multiple, you know, super bowl rings and at the elite level, they want that spring break that was fucking lit. And then that video taken off the Internet. So they want to be able to have the most outrageous party time.

[A]

Well, here's something.

[B]

Then when they get video doing it, they want that video taken down.

[A]

I have. I have. I have something that. I don't know if it's on Genius, but one of the very famous Charlie XCX songs is called Spring breakers. And it's kind of a satirical.

Little, you know, song about, like. I mean, like, one of the lyrics is like, February 10th, I'm gonna pull up for those of you who don't know. You know, I know that because February 10th is my birthday. So it's like, oh, my gosh, Queen Charlie, please pull up. It's my birthday. Hi. But it's. It's like, hi, it's me. You're all in danger. And it's like part of the. One of the lyrics is like, now I'm on the news with the DUI stare, who Cares. Yeah. Anyway, it's like she's making fun of spring break. And it's kind of a whole song about how she loves spring break. She's just like a spring break. She's just there to party, you know, keeping in line with her, you know, three, six, five, party girl Persona. And I think it is interesting that Taylor has chosen this line.

[B]

Well, she's also basically making fun of spring break because she's saying, again, it's sort of, you can't have it all. I mean, if you want to party out of control, but then you're going to be videoed. And now I have to take that video down. Right. So there's consequences. And this is of course, the world that Taylor herself lives in. Right. She can't do the spring break out of control thing because someone will video her. Right. Constantly. Much as you know, we have seen obviously videos of celebrities and non celebrities doing insane things.

They want it all. And again, the courts. And they should have what they want. They deserve what they want. I hope they get what they want. I just want you. And then polchorus again. Okay.

Okay. So.

We get to the pre chorus. We get to the bridge.

[A]

Let's. Yeah, let's dive into the bridge.

[B]

How about if you do the bridge? Can you do it? Or is that technically infeasible?

[A]

Here's the bridge. I made wishes on all of the stars Even though now she does not have to knock on wood let's say use superstition Please, please, God, bring me a best friend who I think is hot so real I thought I had it right once, twice But I did not. You caught me off my guard. It's a fun little football joke she's throwing in there. I hope I get what I want get what I want Because I know what I want. I just want you, baby. Have a couple kids, you know, the whole block looking like you.

[B]

Anyway, so here she's recounting.

The story of her life that all her fans know, which is that she dated a lot of guys, made a lot of wishes.

And thought she had it right. And of course, famously, she did not. Famously did not.

[A]

I wonder who the twice was. I mean, Joe Alwyn. Yeah. Wow.

[B]

Probably Joe Alwyn. And. And, well, she clearly did think briefly that.

[A]

Yeah. Oh, my Lord, very briefly, that Jake.

[B]

Gyllenhaal was the guy. Because Smelly Jake, she, you know, she went all in on him.

[A]

If I had one night with Tom Hiddleston, he would be the one for me. Like, let's just get that out of all Right. You know, you can pull a. I'm 18 now. I'm 18. Leonardo DiCaprio's doing it.

[B]

Well, you know, you can pull a Travis Kelce and use this podcast to reach out. To reach out to him. Right.

[A]

Imagine I rip off my shirt right now. It says I heart Tom Hiddleston on it.

[B]

There you go. All right. Well, look, it. It worked for Travis.

[A]

I can do.

[B]

But you have to. You have to do what Travis did, which is Travis. Travis listened to all of Taylor's songs and figured out how to be.

[A]

I've just seen the Thor franchise. That's all I've seen.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

So you do like.

Great job.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Well, it's not that I like bad boys. I personally just think that he was.

[B]

A mass murderer, you know?

[A]

Yeah, well, you know, not everybody is perfect. He was a low key mass murderer. Yeah. You know, we all have our drawbacks, but personally, the reason I think he's fine is because he. I can't lie. It's the accent. All right, I really can't.

[B]

There you go. Well, now, now, guys, you. You know, you know what you have to do. But I just want to comment on one line in the.

[A]

Speak Spanish because I have to practice for my Spanish class. So next I'll date you if you can speak Spanish. Should I post an invite on LinkedIn? Do you think that'll work? I think at my school, specifically, if I post a LinkedIn request for boyfriends or girlfriends, I think they'll. I think they'll. They will actually be more receptive to that than anything on Hinge or Bumblebee.

[B]

Well, there you go. I just want to say that what's interesting about the bridge versus the chorus is the chorus, they should have what they want. They deserve what they want. Hope they get what they want. I just want you. But the bridge is.

I hope I get what I want because I know what I want. Right? She doesn't say she deserves what she wants. Right. That's what she says of the other people in the chorus. Right? She says they should have what they want and they deserve what they want. She just says that she hopes she gets what he wants because she knows what she wants. Right? So I think, I mean, that's how.

[A]

Christmas lists work for.

[B]

Yeah, well, I'm just saying she is not.

Being sarcastic of herself, right? No, she's not.

[A]

She's being earnest.

[B]

Right? This is the earnest part. So there's the earnest part, which is she just wants Travis and almost all, I think most the rest of the song Is this fantasy or sarcasm? Whatever you. However you want to view that. I do think that this song is kind of an exercise in sarcasm. I think there's a lot of sarcasm here. That was the. You know, I think that's the kind of figure of speech that she is really featuring in this song.

And it's one of her favorite figures of speech because she used it over and over and over and over again. In fact, the entire song, Mr. Perfectly Fine is in almost every single line is, in fact, just sarcasm.

[A]

Sure. And of course, blank space is all ironic.

[B]

Right. And blank space is all ironic. And. And as we've said, even songs that look very straightforward on the surface, like Shake it off.

Is. She's a saying we should all shake it off. But the point, of course, is she.

[A]

Does not shake it off.

[B]

She does not shake things off. Even in that song, she's been unable. She was unable to shake something off. So.

So, yeah, I mean, I think.

A lot of takes on this song have been. I just want to say that some of the takes. Many of the takes on this song have interpreted it quite literally. And so that. For instance, Cosmopolitan, famous magazine, their headline was Taylor Swift Rejects Fame for Travis Kelce and Kids in Revealing Wish List lyrics. Now, she doesn't reject fame. Right. That's not. Again, this song is a fantasy of a world that she goes to the way Happy Gilmore went to his happy place. And for the record, I did. If you watch Happy Gilmore or simply look up a video online, his happy place. In the original, Happy Gilmore is a beautiful woman in a bathing suit carrying two pitchers of beer who comes outside, lays down on the little, you know, son place and offers one to him. Right. That's. You know, and then his grandmother.

[A]

And isn't that all of our fantasy?

[B]

Right, exactly. So this is just. It's a. And then her grandmother pulls a slot machine and she wins huge quantities of money. So that's very crazy.

[A]

I have to watch this movie. Taylor Swift really likes Happy Gilmore.

[B]

It seems she really likes Happy Gilmore. And there's this theory that she was in Happy Gilmore, too. Yeah, yeah. Floating around. But the point is that this fantasy, this utopia, this is. This is not what she. She's not planning to give up fame. She is not asserting that she's going to. She's not even asserting that she wants to. She's acknowledging that she has a. Her fantasy is where she isn't famous. Right. But she's not going to pursue the world where she's not famous. She is a. I mean, look, she did she wrote the. This album while she was on tour. Right.

[A]

It's about the life of a showgirl, and it's about how every showgirl probably ideates about what their life would be like if they weren't famous.

[B]

Right. You don't know the life of a showgirl, and you're never ever gonna. Right. So that song fits in. This song fits in with that theory. And I, and I think, you know, and you did point out, you know, this, this wishing on a star. I made wishes on all the stars, you know, is a little foreshadow of.

Wood.

[A]

The next song.

[B]

Right. Of the next song. So, again, you know, we said these songs are connected. We know.

[A]

Fun one to talk about with my father.

[B]

What?

[A]

Oh, just thinking about how fun it's going to be to talk about what a. What a. What a fun song to talk about with your father would. What an interesting and fun song. Well, because as we've established that, you know, as we've established being wet means that you've washed your hands. Right. And therefore, wood. Wood is simply a. A fire in a hearth, I think, you know, apparently, sitting with your lover.

[B]

10Ft apart, we will get to wood. Apparently, Taylor Swift said her mother didn't at first notice. Understand all of these references.

[A]

I got everything. I love it. I personally love it. Is this something that I would.

[B]

The point of we will talk about wood, but it's filled with words that have double meaning. The double entendres. Right. The literal and then the dirty meaning. Right. But the point here is that a lot of the songs that we have discussed have a surface meaning of the literal words and then an underlying meaning, I would say.

[A]

And usually that's the one that relates to the life of a showgirl.

[B]

Right, Right. And we've discussed that for many of the songs, you know, and Father Figure, you know, is what's going on under the surface there is what's really happening. So, you know, I. It is, it is my plea to the critics. I, I. You don't have to like Taylor Swift. You don't have to like this song. But, but please stop saying that. That every line in one of her songs is something that literally she believes.

[A]

I know. I don't think you would like saying, like, like, I, I mean, half of, like, I don't know.

SZA's songs, Hozier songs, just to name a few, like, they don't literally mean a lot of that. You know, like one that comes to mind right now is like, you know, I don't know if people know this is a song normal girl, like, you know, she's a very famous artist. I don't know if she really wants to be a normal girl. She's gotten famous off of, you know, not being a normal girl. I feel like that's not analogous, but it is a similar type of ideation. Right. You want to be.

I don't know, it's about slightly different things, but. But it is about kind of wanting to be in a different place in your life. That. That is impossible with things.

[B]

There's a lot of. Of fantasies.

[A]

I'm sure any parents would be happy if their. If their boy brought home Sza. Certainly if I brought home, I'd be happy.

[B]

Well, if you bring home Sza, that's totally fine.

[A]

One night. That's all I need, girl.

[B]

No, I want to hear you. But she's got to put on. Put on the show one night and.

[A]

Then breakfast in the morning where my parents come over and hear you sing.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

I don't know if. I don't think that'd be awkward. That wouldn't. That would not be awkward. But you know, she said a few songs, she's dated a few women, so maybe I could be the sixth or seventh.

[B]

Sixth or seven. Nicely done. I feel that that's going to.

[A]

I feel that that is a. This is a stopping point. I can't continue on like this.

[B]

Well, I think we have maybe six.

[A]

Or seven minutes, I think.

[B]

No, no, I. Look, I think that we basically, I. I feel, you know.

Gotten to the main point of what's going on here. And again, this is one of her major storytelling strategies. I think it's one of the reasons she is very successful is that her songs have multiple meanings. This is the same exact thing we said, you know, she's a modern day. I've said she's a modern day Shakespeare. Again, this is how Shakespeare wrote plays. Very surface stuff. There's a lot of bawdy stuff. There's a lot of stuff done for. To entertain the people who just derive literal meanings. And then there's for people who want more. Right. And. And so she's been able to have multiple. Write songs for fans with. With all of her. Her, you know, Easter eggs. But you can't write a song that just is Easter eggs and, and have it for the.

[A]

Generally at this point is that, yes, she's writing half of these songs for Joseph Jacob Broem specifically because I don't believe there's anybody in the world that is listening to more Tay Dad. How, how. What percentage are you in the Taylor Swift what's your.

[B]

Yes, I did.

[A]

Let's hear about that.

[B]

My daughter is referring to my own. My own personal rapt.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And.

[A]

Oh, let's do like a rap share out. Hold on. Let's do rap share. You go first. You go first. What are your top. What's your top artist? And how. How.

[B]

Oh, well, you know. My top artist is.

[A]

Well, okay, what's your percentage?

[B]

What's your percentage according to. To Spotify? I listened to about 2300 minutes of Taylor Swift this year so far.

And that puts me in the top 2% of Taylor Swift listeners.

[A]

Oh my God, that's crazy.

[B]

That's. That's. By the way, that's about 40 hours. I'm now. But again, I'm professional. You know, I listen to this song. Right. And.

[A]

And by the way, it seems like you should perhaps be in the top 1%.

[B]

I know, I feel disappointed.

[A]

That's kind of sad. I personally did not experience that. My top artist was. Drumroll, please.

Claro. My top artist was Clairo. I listened to her. I'm in the top 0.2% of Claro listeners.

[B]

0.2%.

[A]

Yes, because I listened to her. I used to listen to her every night before I fell asleep because charm calmed me down, made me feel like less anxious. And my other. My next lineup. So it goes Claro, Sza Lorde, the Maria's, then the Smiths. That's my lineup. What about you?

[B]

Well, I will say my top song, of course was the Fate of Ophelia. I listened 55 times.

[A]

What are your top artists?

[B]

My top artists are.

[A]

My top song was Slow Dance by Claro. That's my favorite Claro song actually. Amoeba recorded Electric Lady. Guys, if you like Folklore and you know, you kind of like. Actually I can't even. If you like Folklore, then you should listen to charm. It's the same kind of a little bit. If you like good songs, you should listen to Amoeba. The song Amoeba by Claro recorded at Electric Lady. That is the best. Oh my God. Every Electric lady recording is so. Oh, wonderful. Anyway, continue, father.

[B]

My top listens were.

Nicki Minaj was on the list. Really? Yes.

[A]

Oh my God, that's so funny. I love her.

[B]

And yeah, the top. Well, I mean, yeah, she's. I mean, look, Taylor is most of the top songs, but we do get to stop artists. Well, you know, Taylor's a top artist and the first non Taylor Swift song on the list of my most listened to songs is Starships by Nikki oh.

[A]

My God, that's so funny. Oh, that's because I used to. I used to rap a little bit of starships before recordings. I'm pretty sure that's why.

[B]

And I used to. I like to. It gets me in the spirit. Then the next one non Taylor song on my list is Pink Pony Club, which, you know, I like.

[A]

Aw. I know you like Chapel Roan. That's.

[B]

I do like Chapel Roan. And. And by the way, Pink Pony Club, as we've discussed, is also a song that may be part fantasy. Right. If you watch the music video. Right. Most of what she has this fantasy of how great it is, but the beginning and the end show that she's not. It's not really that the Pink Pony Club ain't the greatest experience in the world.

[A]

Yeah, Right, Maya? Yeah, there you go.

[B]

Sorry, there's a lot of Taylor Swift here.

[A]

What are your top artists? Why aren't you sharing your top artists? Top five?

[B]

Oh, well, I'm just telling you. Yeah, so it would be. It would definitely be. Taylor is number one.

[A]

Well, they tell you. They tell you.

[B]

Yeah, no, I'm trying to find that, but I can't find it right now. But I can tell you that the list also includes Nikki. It includes.

Chapel Roan.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

And it includes Britney Spears. I was. I. I sometimes get into a vein where I. I like to listen. I was listening to Oops, I Did It Again.

[A]

He loves that song.

[B]

Sometimes I get into a mode where I listen to that.

[A]

He shouldn't have. He shouldn't have.

[B]

And just so people know, because I do have a photo of it.

Which. Which is perhaps the most amusing thing. I have the photo of, as you know, Spotify gives you a listening age based on.

[A]

Yes. What's your listening age?

[B]

My. My listening age.

[A]

That's beautiful.

[B]

My listening age is 27.

[A]

Just like Taylor Swift. That's crazy. Do you want to know my listening age? Dad, do you want to know my listening age?

[B]

What? What?

[A]

57.

[B]

Was it really?

[A]

Yes. My listening age is 57. Well, that's crazy.

[B]

You're listening. What do you listen to? Art house songs?

[A]

I listen to the Smiths and Ravens.

[B]

Oh, you listen to Smith. All right. Well, there you go.

[A]

Well, I love the Smiths. Sorry not to be that guy, but I love this.

[B]

Well, what else? That's funny.

[A]

Yeah, I love the Cranberries and Fleetwood Mac. Those are the two other.

[B]

Oh, well, there you go. So. Well, yeah, you are 57 and I'm 22, so that's very appropriate.

[A]

That's beautiful, dad. That's beautiful. Yeah. My top songs, just to quickly bang them out. Slow Dance by Claro. Spring into Summer, Lizzie McAlpine, love me not by Raven Linnae and Juna by Claro and then Let down by Radiohead. And then the next ones are no One Noticed. And Sienna by the Maria's and then bugged by Fontaine's DC I love Fontaine's DC.

[B]

Alrighty. Well, we've established why you are 57. And we've established why I'm Fontaine's.

[A]

DC is a contemporary rock band from Ireland. They're very cool.

[B]

You realize if you're talking about Irish erasure, if you're 57 and I'm 22, then we're like one of those teen movies where they switch place with the parents.

[A]

That's beautiful. That's true. Except you're still 65, so.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Maybe I'll try to get 65 next year. You can get 19.

[B]

There you go. Will you still need me? Will you still feed me when I'm 64 as the Beatles? Oh, and I'm listening to Beatles Anthology, which I urge people on Netflix. Very good docuseries. Alrighty. I want to thank our fans again for listening and for listening to going back and listening the first season for sharing this, because your shares are definitely getting us more views and listens and our hours consumed. So thank you all. Please do leave reviews, comments and we.

[A]

Will answer your question, questions, concerns, as they say. Although the only thing you should be concerned about is when the next episode is dropping Tuesday.

[B]

We're trying to drop them. I'm actually trying to drop them like Taylor does 12:01 in the morning on Tuesdays.

[A]

Yes, that is my try to do.

[B]

I am trying to do that.

[A]

Bye, guys.

[B]

Bye bye.

[A]

Adios, muchachitos. And us and es.

[B]

Hasta la vista, baby.

And Doug, here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com Liberty Liberty Liberty. Liberty Savings. Very unwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance company and affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts.

[C]

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