The Trick That Makes Taylor's Blank Space a Memorable Masterpiece | #6

Summary

Decoding Taylor Swift: A Storytelling Revolution

Episode 6 – The Trick That Makes Taylor's "Blank Space" a Memorable Masterpiece

Hosts: Joe Romm & Toni Romm
Date: August 5, 2025

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Brief Overview

In Episode 6, Joe and Toni Romm break down what makes Taylor Swift’s “Blank Space” a storytelling tour de force. Their focus: the rhetorical device of antithesis—a tool Swift masterfully deploys to create tension, memorability, and viral resonance in her work. The Romms explore why this song stands out as a model for both creative writing and everyday communication, offering tips on how listeners can integrate Swift’s techniques into their own writing, speaking, and brand-building efforts. Along the way, the episode is infused with humor, memorable quotes, personal anecdotes, and actionable storytelling tips.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Distinguishing Writing from Speaking ([01:10]–[07:47])

• Writing vs. Speaking:
  • Writing allows for retroactive crafting; speaking requires proactive fluency in storytelling tools.
  • Toni: “When you know these rules, you can straightforwardly apply them in your writing because you have time to think… but to put it into your speaking, you're gonna have to come in in advance.” ([01:24])
• Becoming Natural in Storytelling:
  • Repetition and deliberate practice are highlighted as the way to internalize tools like antithesis, so they become second nature in both writing and conversation.

Antithesis: The “Beautiful Butts” Technique ([02:00]–[05:22])

• Transition from “But” to Antithesis:
  • Joe and Toni discuss the concept of the “invisible but” in Swift’s lyrics—a way of introducing tension without directly using the word (“But”).
  • Example:
    • Swift’s lyric: “Cause, darling, I’m a nightmare dressed like a daydream.”
      • Joe: “There’s an invisible ‘but’ there, which are honestly the worst kind of butts, but they are the most useful kind in Taylor Swift’s writing.” ([03:59])
• Why Antithesis Works:
  • Introduces cognitive tension, making lines memorable.
  • Can be achieved both with and without explicit connectives (“but,” “yet,” etc.).

The Power of Memorable Contrasts ([09:45]–[12:50])

• Quotable Examples:

  • Martin Luther King Jr.: “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” ([11:10])
  • Oscar Wilde in "The Picture of Dorian Gray": “There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.” ([18:16])

• Explanation:

  • Antithesis places contrasting ideas side by side; the juxtaposition heightens the impact and memorability.
  • Toni illustrates this concept with a metaphor about height: differences become more pronounced when opposites are juxtaposed.

Application: From College Essays to Viral Content ([12:50]–[15:27], [15:38]–[17:52])

• Toni’s College Essay Example:

  • Toni reads a satirical college essay line using antithesis:
    • “‘Dignity can be found in libel and grace can be found in defamation.’” ([16:55])
  • Takeaway: Antithesis is easy to apply in writing—especially in creative or persuasive contexts.

• Repetition as a Tool:

  • Memorable lines are often those repeated or reinforced (see earlier discussion about rule of repetition).

Taylor Swift's "Blank Space": Storytelling in Action ([17:57]–[36:28])

Satire, Parody, and Ownership

• Parody of Media Persona:
  • Swift intentionally parodies her “boy-crazy” media image, employing irony and exaggeration.
  • Joe: “She certainly was trying to make an extreme parody of the media’s representation of her… Taylor has sort of mastered the art of being talked about.” ([18:16–19:56])
  • Toni: “Blank Space is her not only shaking off her haters, but owning the actions… in a satirical way.” ([21:44])

Key Lyrics & Figures of Speech

• Antithesis in Lyrics:
  • “Cause, darling, I’m a nightmare dressed like a daydream.” ([03:50], [27:23])
  • “It’s going to be forever or it’s going to go down in flames.” ([28:35])
  • “I can make the bad guys good for a weekend.” ([28:24])
  • Toni: “Another line of antithesis. And basically what she’s doing here… is saying, look, our only choices are extremes.” ([28:49])
• Similes & Metaphors:
  • “You look like my next mistake.”
    • Joe: “This is another reference… she’s just embracing, ‘Oh, you look like my next mistake.’” ([27:10])
  • “I can read you like a magazine.”
  • “Nightmare” = metaphor; “dressed like a daydream” = simile ([46:48])

Notable Song Accomplishments

• Swift became the first female artist on the Billboard charts to replace herself at #1 (“Blank Space” succeeded “Shake It Off”) ([20:06])
• The song’s viral success is due in large part to her clever use of rhetorical devices.

Personal Storytelling & Actionable Takeaways ([22:31]–[24:51], [47:34]–[49:26])

• Notebook Habit:
  • Swift keeps a notebook for lines; everyone should keep a notes app/notebook for memorable lines or comebacks. ([22:59])
• Practice Rehearsal:
  • Write out stories or presentations for public speaking, work, or even dates.
• Antithesis for Humor:
  • The device also creates comedic effect, as seen in both Swift’s and the hosts’ conversations.

The “Volta” & Song Structure ([35:40]–[37:13])

• The Song’s Turn:
  • Toni introduces the concept of a “volta”—a turning point in poetry/songwriting where tone or perspective shifts ([35:59]).
  • Example in "Blank Space": “Wait, the worst is yet to come…”
  • Songs and speeches often gain memorability by making a dramatic rhetorical turn.

Separating Persona from Artist ([39:21]–[40:54])

• Swift’s Perspective ([39:21]):

  • “Half the people got the joke… half… really think I was owning the act that I’m a psychopath. Which is fine… Even if they’re incorrect.”
  • Swift doesn’t care if critics take her literally or not; either way, people are talking.

• Artist vs Character:

  • Important to distinguish between the singer’s persona in the song and their real beliefs—common to all storytellers, from Swift to Shakespeare.

Practical Storytelling Homework ([48:51]–[49:26])

• Joe’s Assignment:
  • Listen repeatedly to a Swift song, then handwrite the lyrics. Identify what makes lines memorable—they likely use a rhetorical device (“memory trick”).
  • Use these techniques (antithesis, metaphor, simile, etc.) in your own communication.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Antithesis:
  • Joe ([09:55]): “When you read quotation books… these phrases we remember because what we’re doing is we’re making a point by referring to the exact opposite of that point, right?”
  • Toni ([11:10]): “If you’re 5’ 5”, try to surround yourself with people who are 5’ 3”, maybe 5’ 4”.”
• On Songwriting:
  • Joe ([22:31]): “She says over years, she had thought up a bunch of lines… at one point in her life, [she realized] your two choices in a relationship are it’s going to be forever or it’s going to go down in flames.”
• On Memorability:
  • Joe ([06:32]): “If what you say doesn’t get remembered, it doesn’t matter what you say.”
• On Messaging:
  • Toni ([18:52]): “Taylor and antithesis… are both very good sometimes… very bad sometimes, but at all times, they are memorable.”
• On Handling Critics:
  • Joe ([19:49]): “The people who don’t like you can generate as many clicks for you as the people who do like you.”
  • Toni ([31:50]): “The things that people come for her for are things that they would never say to a normal person.”
• On Artistic Intent:
  • Swift (quoted, [39:21]): “Half the people got the joke… half… really think I was really owning the act that I'm a psychopath. Which is fine. Either one is fine as long as they know the semblance of the words. Even if they're incorrect.”
• On Learning Storytelling:
  • Joe ([51:01]): “Van Jones… filled his iPod with the speeches of Martin Luther King and Ronald Reagan… and he would just listen to them over and over again.”
• On Mastery by Practice:
  • Joe ([52:05]): “All of these things are something that you yourself can master, but it’s going to take, take study, effort, repetition and so on.”
• On Taylor as Modern-Day Shakespeare:
  • Joe ([49:26]): “The reason she goes viral so much is because she stuffs her songs with the best examples of these memory tricks since… Hamilton and Shakespeare himself. And that’s why I still call her a modern day Shakespeare.”

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Important Timestamps

• [03:50]: “Nightmare dressed like a daydream”—explained as an “invisible but” & antithesis
• [11:10]: MLK’s “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” discussed as prime antithesis
• [16:55]: Toni’s college essay example with antithesis
• [18:16]: Oscar Wilde’s “worse than being talked about” quote
• [22:31]: Taylor’s use of notebooks for memorable lines—creative process revealed
• [28:24]: “I can make the bad guys good for a weekend”—lyrical antithesis
• [39:21]: Taylor’s own thoughts on “Blank Space”—“Half the people got the joke… half… really think I was really owning the act that I'm a psychopath. Which is fine.”
• [48:51]: Practical storytelling homework—handwrite, analyze, and apply viral rhetorical devices

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Recurring Themes & Takeaways

• Antithesis drives memorability, tension, and virality.
• Taylor Swift’s “Blank Space” is a masterclass in antithesis—almost every killer line features a vivid contrast or rhetorical turn.
• These tools are not exclusive to songwriting: they can be used in essays, presentations, personal branding, and social media.
• Building storytelling fluency takes effort, note-taking, rehearsal, and lots of intentional repetition.

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Action Steps for Listeners

1. Keep a notebook (or notes app) for striking lines, comebacks, or observations.
2. When preparing for speeches or important conversations, write out remarks in advance and look for opportunities to use antithesis or other devices.
3. Re-listen to favorite Swift songs and handwrite the lyrics to uncover storytelling techniques.
4. Practice combining memory tricks (antithesis, metaphor, simile) for maximum impact.

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Episode Tone

Conversational, witty, affectionate, and occasionally self-deprecating; packed with dad-daughter banter, pop culture references, and concrete how-tos.

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For those who haven’t listened:

This episode not only unpacks Taylor Swift’s rhetorical brilliance in “Blank Space” but also demystifies the underlying storytelling tools—making them accessible for everyday use, whether you're writing a song, an essay, or just want to make your message stick.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, I'm Joe Rome and I'm his daughter, Toni.

[B]

Welcome to Decoding Taylor Swift, where you'll learn the storytelling tools Swift uses that make her a modern day Shakespeare, but.

[A]

Can make you a better communicator so you can drive your mission and build your tribe.

[B]

Rolling Stone magazine put both me and Swift on its list of 100 people changing America. So I know that the most successful social change makers are the best storytellers.

[A]

This podcast will truly transform how you think about Swift songs and give you the life changing tools to lead, connect, and change the world.

[B]

Hello.

[A]

Welcome to Episode vi.

[B]

This is episode six and we're very excited about this episode because you're going to learn some actionable things.

[A]

Yes. This is going to be one of the top six episodes of this podcast that has been recorded up until this point that you will ever hear.

[B]

But really, seriously, we're going to start really diving into how you apply these techniques.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And also how you can ingrain them in you. Because that's the other thing. And I think one of the important points we want to draw is the distinction between writing and speaking.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Because when you know these rules, you can straightforwardly apply them in your writing because you have time to think.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But to put it into your speaking, you're gonna have to come in in advance.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're gonna have to hear these things over and over again until they become natural to you. Yes.

[A]

In other words, for writing you can be retroactive, but in speech you must be proactive.

[B]

Whoa.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And you know what? It sounds like an antithesis.

[A]

Right. Does it, does it sound.

[B]

Does it sound like that or an antithesis?

[A]

An antithesis.

[B]

You might say antithesis. And you may remember in episode five, we talked about the use of the word but.

[A]

Yeah. And that's why. Yes, we did. And if you say antithesis, then you will actually be shocked to know that it is antithesis. And Taylor Swift's famous song is actually pronounced anti hero. And that is correct.

[B]

I don't know that that's true. But speaking of Taylor Swift's song, today, our main focus in the song and the way we're doing the podcast, we spend the time up front kind of talking about the idea of the day.

[A]

The idea of the day. Ding, ding, ding. We should add a sound effect.

[B]

There you go. This is the tool that you're going to want to master today. And it is antithesis. It's very much related to the Beautiful butts that we talked about.

[A]

It's definitely antithesis.

[B]

I feel like we it is antithesis. Okay. It is antithesis.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The song we're going to focus on is Blank Space.

[A]

Blank Space. Oh, my gosh.

[B]

One of her masterpieces. One of her number one songs.

[A]

In and of itself, an antithesis because space is obviously so full. Why is it blank?

[B]

Well, there you go. And we will come back to why this strange title?

[A]

Sure.

[B]

But let me play one of the most famous lines from this show.

[A]

One of the coolest lines. Oh, what are they gonna take away from this episode, by the way?

[B]

From this episode, you're gonna take away. First of all, how you can start the transition towards imbuing yourself with storytelling so it becomes a natural thing.

[A]

Yes. This is. This is the episode where you will probably begin to see how you can turn these little tidbits we've been giving you into actionable daily habits.

[B]

Yeah. And I want to. Well, let me. Let me play the blank space and then come back to that. Okay. I just want people to hear this. This will remind people of what this song is.

[A]

But you'll come back each time you leave. Because, darling, I'm a nightmare Dressed like.

[B]

A d daydream so, yes, you'll come back each time you leave. Whoa, whoa.

[A]

Cause, darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream. And you know what's funny about that? There's an invisible but there, which are honestly the worst kind of butts, but they are the most useful kind in Taylor Swift's writing, oftentimes. Invisible buts. What we talked about last episode, the power of the butt, is that it is the sheer voluptuous force of the but, that it is so voluptuous that it need not even be present in the line for it to be felt.

[B]

Yeah. The key thing about the word but is but is gonna introduce tension.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we are programmed as human beings to know when you hear the word but, it may not be what you wanted. Right. I could be saying to you, oh, you've been here at the new job for two months and everybody really likes you, and you know you're doing some good things, and you all know the but's coming. Everyone knows the butt is. And then I'll say, but. And then your heart will sink a little bit.

[A]

Right.

[B]

So the point of the but is to introduce tension. But you don't need the but to introduce tension. You can introduce tension by simply saying, cause, darling. You could say, cause, darling, I'm a nightmare But I'm dressed like a daydream. Yes, you could put the butt in there. But when I say Cause, darlin, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream. Right? That's poetry. That's storytelling. That really sticks in your head.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And so one of the things that I wanted to say is that in this really important point of the difference between writing and speaking is that, you know, because my daughter and the pod and the blog I was doing, but especially, you know, because my daughter, I was very focused on figuring out how to do storytelling. And I studied the great storytellers and, and all the things that you've heard from episode one through this one, this is all about storytelling. And as I thought about it more and more, I was able to put it in my writing. And I wrote a book called Language Intelligence. And that book, actually one of my better selling books.

[A]

Ooh, ladies, you know the drill.

[B]

You know you still have to come up with the new material.

[A]

Well, I said, you know the drill instead of get in line, it's a new bit.

[B]

Oh, bit and drill. Oh, I like that one.

[A]

Oh, my God. That's.

[B]

That's a nice pun synthesis, by the way. Puns are figures of speech. They are.

[A]

Maybe we can do an episode on puns.

[B]

We will. Oh, she loves puns.

[A]

She loves puns. Big pun fan. What were we talking about?

[B]

I wrote this book, Language Intelligence, and it had all these discussions of the figures of speech, these viral memory tricks that you need to learn because they're the components of storytelling. They are what make you memorable. And if what you say doesn't get remembered, it doesn't matter what you say. That's sort of the main point.

[A]

Sad face.

[B]

Now, what was interesting is a friend of mine read this book. This book came out in 2012.

[A]

2012.

[B]

Woof, woof. And they said to me, you know, this is a good book. It's got a lot of good stuff in it. But the dreaded. But you don't talk that way. And that was a snap. That was a very big snap. And I realized that I don't talk that way because I had been over educated in, you know, the high school.

[A]

Disgustingly educated.

[B]

Well, I got a bachelor's degree in physics and I got a PhD in physics from MIT, which is not the way to learn communications. No, I mean, if you want to communicate to a very narrow subset of people who have PhDs in physics, but.

[A]

Also disgustingly educated and annoying.

[B]

But we didn't learn how to actually communicate. So when I studied all this storytelling, I was able to incorporate it into my writing, but I hadn't incorporated into my speaking.

[A]

Sad.

[B]

So what did I do to make this actionable and to break my habit? I started writing out all of my remarks.

[A]

Yes. Including like, you know, and this can also be, you know, stuff that you do for presentations at work. Like every time that you are going to speak in front of somebody and you think it will matter, write it out beforehand. There's no shame in using cue cards.

[B]

And by the way, you want to go out on a date, there's absolutely nothing wrong with rehearsing a story you're gonna tell. There's. There, there isn't.

[A]

I mean I've never done it, but I've never been on real dates.

[B]

Well, you're, you're, you're Gen Z, you're young.

[A]

My dates are like walking and getting like bubble tea and then like sitting and like staring into an abyss.

[B]

I can assure you that you are maybe months away from obsessing over what some guy meant. But the point is when you speak in public or you speak in meetings, and I will tell you, I was at the Department of Energy for a few years and I sit around important meetings. Yes. I work out in my head what I'm gonna say because the frickin Secretary of Energy is in the room and I can't say crazy. I know, you know, you have to say something that's gonna stand out, right?

[A]

So you can't say your silly willy little nuclear power plants are not cool. You have to be like eloquent.

[B]

You have to tell a story. That is what's gonna capture people. So I did, I like.

[A]

Hey, a quote that you used that I've always liked, please. Was that was. This is not antithesis, but it is a very powerful figure of speech that I think is, is important. Is, is. Oh God, what was it? Natural gas is a bridge to nowhere.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And that was obviously clearly planned out, but, but then you incorporated it into your later speeches, which I think is also what you have to do. If you write things down, if you write presentations down, memos down, you're probably going to have to reiterate your point a lot to people and.

[B]

Oh yes, well, we did repetition. We did, we did. You know, the first rule is repetition. Second rule is repetition.

[A]

Why is antithesis? Why antithesis?

[B]

Right. Well, let me tell you. Antithesis. When you read quotation books, these things that everyone remembers or lines in songs.

[A]

Like it was the best of times, it was the worst of times, which is a book, not a song, but if you sing it, it could be a song.

[B]

These are the things that we remember, these phrases we remember because what we're doing is we're making a point by also referring to the exact opposite of that point, Right? And so when I.

[A]

It's juxtaposition.

[B]

When I writing my remarks, I gave a speech. I was actually invited to give a speech, a five minute introduction of a very famous man, James Hansen, very famous climate scientist who was being given the Ridenauer Courage Award for being a courageous speaker on climate change in the face of skeptics. And so I said, oh, geez, I want to make this a good speech. I realized that I could just quote people who were great speech makers. And I got the idea because it was 2013 and therefore the 50th anniversary of the famous letter Martin Luther King Jr wrote from the Birmingham jail cell. He was in. One of the things, he said, a famous line. Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere, right?

[A]

And that, that is. That pretty much is underscoring that entire line underscores what antithesis is really about. Because if you're, like walking down the street and you see like, maybe like a dude who's like 5 5, and you're like, that's like a respectable height. That's cool. And then you see like Shaquille o' Neal walking down the other side of the street and you're like, all of a sudden that's like a really short guy and a really tall guy. And both of those heights, you know, whatever they are, are very respectable for men. You know, shout out men who are five' five. But you can more visibly see the difference when it's situated next to something else that is very, very different. So I guess my point is, is that if you're 5 5, try to surround yourself with people who are 5 3, maybe 5' 4.

[B]

There you go. I wanna read one other quote from King in the letter because it's a quote anyone can use today. I think certainly we will have to repent in this generation, not merely for the vitriolic words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people. So that's.

[A]

He kind of.

[B]

That's a slam that you could say could.

[A]

And that's slam and a dunk.

[B]

The beauty of a statement like that is that it is timeless, right? And it is timeless. It is memorable. It puts the juxtaposition together so poignantly, so poignantly that it sticks in the mind. And that's what we're trying to do here. And. But you told me you have an example that you used, for sure.

[A]

And talking about I do, actually, from my college essay. Not to brag, guys, but I got into college, which is pretty cool, in my opinion. I haven't gone yet, so I'll let you know when I go how hard it is, but. But it'll probably be pretty easy. I don't know. I've never done it before.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[A]

And I. You know, I don't know. I've. I feel like up until this point, school's been like school. And if I can do it one place, it's like, you know, I can always drop out.

[B]

And I think you need to throw salt over your shoulders or knock on wood or something, because this is like the.

[A]

I'm going to double down instead. If I go there and I don't have a 4.0 GPA for all four years, and somebody can find me and they can throw a pie in my face.

[B]

Oh, man, you're going to live to regret that. This is, by the way, what the Greeks used to call hubris, right? That was the tragic flaw that led to.

[A]

If I do not graduate with honors and a 4.0 GPA and I have not received a Pell Grant or a scholarship, perhaps Fulbright or Rhodes. Either one, I guess, would be cool. Or a MacArthur genius fund, which I don't think you can get as an undergrad. If I haven't received all of those, somebody can find me and throw. How about this? Three pies. Final offer in my face.

[B]

I am. I am so proactively proud of you. Tell me, what is your favorite pie? Because this is going to be happening so much, at least people can give you your favorite pie.

[A]

I think the one that would hurt the least would just be cream pie. But I'm going to be honest, apple pie is my favorite. A good key lime probably wouldn't hurt that much.

[B]

I'm trying to think of a pie that won't, like, ruin your clothing and all this stuff that you can wash off, you know, because. No, I'm not gonna give suggestions a bad.

[A]

No, no. Well, now I'm curious.

[B]

No, you don't want to hear my suggestion.

[A]

Were you gonna suggest, like, rock pie? Please don't bring rock pie.

[B]

No, I was gonna suggest a blueberry pie.

[A]

Oh, no, don't. Don't do that.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

I should, like. I'll publish a list on social media of acceptable pies. What were we talking about?

[B]

They're here to learn about how you used antithesis in this college essay of yours.

[A]

Oh, my gosh, yes. And I was gonna zoom out and be general. Yes. Antithesis is something that is very easy to incorporate into, like, pretty much any pieces of writing. And you can trust me because I just received a five on AP lit, you guys. And not to brag, but I feel.

[B]

If I were saying any of this. Oh, I have to say. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Get in line, guys.

[A]

Yeah, get in line, guys. Honestly, I can be. I am literate. And that's why you should trust me. So let me grab my phone alone. We're gonna.

[B]

Oh, man, am I gonna have to temporize here or we just gonna take a break?

[A]

We can maybe take a five minute break. You can do a little humming if you want.

[B]

All right. It's not a five minute break. Go do. Yeah. All right.

[A]

Okay, so I have a line. So I attend a college that has weird prompts. There was a prompt that was too heinous to read aloud, but it involved bringing back slaying words and which ones you would choose to bring back. And I wrote for this prompt, a satirical piece on how I think insults have become dull and need to be more creative. And so I used Victorian era slang as an example. And yeah, hold on. Break, break, break. Because let me find the sentence. What is it? Where did it go? Oh, here it is. By adding these three simple phrases into your vocabulary, you can change the way you slander. And slowly, one uncivil word at a time, America, we can revolutionize the way we ridicule. There can once more be joy and creativity, even in our lowest moments. And here's the line. Dignity can be found in libel and grace can be found in defamation. And, you know, I'll just read the final sentence for kicks, but ultimately the decision is yours. So are you ready to insult with intention? Wow, that was so inspirational.

[B]

So this was your. This is one of your essays?

[A]

Yes, this was for the.

[B]

And you still got it. Oh, my God, I'm so proud of you.

[A]

Yes, I. I still.

[B]

I'm so proud of you.

[A]

I think they started doing, like, dartboards after a certain point. They just would pick names out of a hat. They throw some. Throw some names at a dartboard. I don't know how.

[B]

Well, the point is that there's a lot of uses for this.

[A]

So dignity can be found in library and grace can be. So there's. The other point that I wanted to make is that especially in writing, there's no one way to do antithesis as long as you are using a form of juxtaposition that. That. That. That very nearly puts two concepts, two words to whatever is right. Next to each other in a sentence, so it's very easy to see. And you can do this when you speak, or you can do this when you write. That is pretty much how you. You start not only to become a better storyteller, but a better user of language in general. So they're. They're mic drop.

[B]

And. And another thing it can be used for is humor.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And.

[A]

And. And in fact, Blank Space is one of her more humorous songs because the entire thing is. Is pretty much satirical, as you know.

[B]

Well, it's. Yes. And she.

[A]

Where can I get into it?

[B]

We're about to get into it. I just wanted to give one example before we dive in.

[A]

He's just gonna give one example, and it's not gonna become, like, a million.

[B]

This is from Oscar Wilde. Oh.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

Wait.

[A]

A fellow member of the LGBTQ community.

[B]

He well known for coming up with epithets. You can Google, you know, famous quotes from Oscar Wilde, and you'll find a great many in the picture. Dorian Gray.

[A]

He has a line, not the picture of Dorian Gray.

[B]

There is only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about. Woof. And that's a good intro to Taylor, because Taylor has sort of mastered that art. She has mastered the art of being talked about.

[A]

So this is a perfect trans. Position. The other thing that that antithesis and Taylor Swift have in common is that they are both very good sometimes in the eyes of the reader, very bad sometimes, but at all times, they are memorable. And that, I think, is a very important point in the canon of Taylor Swift. And her legacy as a storyteller is that no matter what, no matter who is raging against her online for valid or unvalid reasons, because there have been valid and there have been unvalid, Whether it's she's dating too men or she's dating a man that's a little bit racist, it's that she has. She's being talked about. And at the end of the day, honestly, like, gang, it's driving up her streams like you can't even debate. And. And, well, this is.

[B]

This is a world in which, if.

[A]

You'Re trying to make money, the people who doesn't matter how it gets to.

[B]

You, the people who don't like you, can generate as many clicks for you as the people who do like you.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that is why she often operates in the realm of extremes. One thing I wanted to say about how great this song is.

[A]

Okay, I'm sorry. One key pointing at. He's Saying, go talk. I won't.

[B]

This song, Silencing Women broke, created a record. It's the first time a female musician.

[A]

Female.

[B]

Did something in the 50 years of the Billboard charts, which is. Blank Space was the number one song. It replaced a number one song that she currently had down, and that was Shake It Off.

[A]

Wait, who had done it before?

[B]

The Beatles? A lot of men?

[A]

No. What do you said. You said 50 years.

[B]

In 50 years, there's never been a woman music artist.

[A]

Oh. In the history of Billboard.

[B]

In the history of Billboard, where a woman had replaced herself with a number one song.

[A]

What was that? That was like 2014. Right?

[B]

This was 2014.

[A]

Jesus.

[B]

And so really just. She was rocking back then, I guess she was rocking.

[A]

And so Shake it off and Blink Space. I think our good partner songs. We'll talk about Shake It Off. Of course we must. I think Blank Space people tend to think that. That Shake it off is a more unabashed look at how. How she's like, you know, shaking off her haters. But ultimately, it's Blank Space that. That created the most memorable profile of her. That. That not only. And this is very important because you, as a person who wants to build a brand, need to do this. Not only brush off people who don't, like, you know, understand your values, understand your vision, you also need to solidify your vision while you do that. You know, Shake it off is a song about how you're just shaking off haters. Cool. Anybody can do that. Blank Space is her not only shaking off her haters, but owning the actions that have brought her to that point in her life so far in a satirical way, you know, and she was. She's.

[B]

And let me. Let me also. And we'll talk about things that she said about the song, but she certainly was trying to make an extreme parody of the media's representation of her. Right, right. And parody is a form of irony. She is just taking a. What on the surface is like, oh, this is a crazy woman. And she's just saying, I'm gonna show you think I'm a crazy woman. I'm gonna take it to like, 11. And, you know, and in that sense, she's gonna own it and negate it. Now, interestingly, when she talks about this song and how she wrote it, here is another actionable thing, something that I myself did, not for songwriting, but just over the course of my life, she says over years, she had thought up a bunch of lines.

[A]

Yeah, that's how she wrote.

[B]

Really like this. And for instance, at one point and she says this. She says she realized at one point in her life that, oh, your two choices in a relationship are it's going to be forever or it's going to go down in flames.

[A]

She was like, that's super clever. Let me.

[B]

So she wrote it down, and she wrote down. And the same for darling. I'm a nightmare dressed like a J Dream. So the point is, she have a notebook. And you should have a notebook or a notes app.

[A]

I use my notes app.

[B]

Notes app. The point is. And when I was at mit, I also kept a notebook.

[A]

Nerd alert.

[B]

Because my parents were writers. And I realized we often hear lines or think of lines. If you don't write them down, then, like, the next day you're like, oh, damn, what was that? I thought of this great comeback line or this great.

[A]

Oh, my God. The great comeback. Comebacks. Yes. This is okay. If you are like a child and you're being bullied at school, thinking up comebacks is a great use of your free time that also boosts your mental acuity, and that. That kind of makes you smarter. It's a way to actually, you know, what? For adults and children of every age, I think they say to, you know, use your brain because it combats dementia. So I think a good way to do that and to use antithesis is creating comebacks. Using antithesis to combat dementia.

[B]

Well, and. And I.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

And I'll, you know, and I will say write them down. Carry something. You have to become very deliberate at writing things down if you want to ultimately become a great writer. Because most people are not gonna have just the stuff flow off the top of their head. And that even the Taylor Swift is saying, I have a notebook of lines. And she said, I had all these great lines and I was saving up for this song, and she just wanted to really use them. And, you know, they're really killer lines. And, you know, I think that she is trying in this song to, as we said, take this caricature of hers. And she says, you know, that, you know, she thought, well, wouldn't this be an interesting idea? She said, I originally thought of this song as a joke, right? But then I realized, oh, I could just take it to the 11th, you know, to 11 or 12, and just make it a coherent story of this crazy woman who. This crazy dater. And so let's talk about the song.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So what is. What is blank Space? What. What. What's. What does it mean? Why the title Blank Space?

[A]

Well, in the chorus, she says, you know, I have a Long list of ex lovers. They tell me I'm insane but I've got a blank space, baby. Which is a pen click. That was my pen click sound. And I'll write your name. Wow. So she says that because, you know, it's just saying that she always has room for more lovers.

[B]

Yeah, this is. Guys, just this. The blank space could not be more generic, right. She doesn't have any particular guy. Right. And if you watch the music video come on down, it's like a generic, and he gets replaced at the end by generic guy. And so, you know, she's saying. And by the way, it's also interesting because the song is about her as a writer, right. She is thinking of this guy not as a person, but as a blank space on a piece of paper. Right. She's a professional writer.

[A]

Well, and that's evidence in how long it took her to write. I mean, she says herself it was kind of like a crossword. Like the lyrics came first, the concept kind of came second. And I think that because she's combining so many, like, literary themes, so, so many uses of antithesis, so many random lines, it can only be a generic song, right? Because that's how you string so many unrelated concepts together while also saying, f you critics. I don't date too many guys because, of course, the. The most antithetical thing ever is human love. And, you know, the. The way that we, you know, view each other. I don't know. I'm not an ap. Well, look, I don't know why I'm talking about this. Who cares about love? Love is for weirdos.

[B]

Well, look, I mean, one of the points of this, of this song is that she is a writer and she makes references, you know, to reading and writing. She says of this guy, you know, you know, oh, my God, look at that face. You look like my next mistake period. Right? So this is another reference to the A. Similar to the opening of I knew you were trouble. Right. Once upon a time. A few mistakes ago. Right there. It's kind of a warning here. She's just embracing. Oh, you look like my next mistake.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And you know, she also says, you know, new money, suit and tie, I can read you like a magazine.

[A]

Yeah, right.

[B]

So she's this guy. This is a. Actually, I. I get a girl. I realized this is just kind of sort of insulting to him. Like, he's just generic, two dimensional magazine.

[A]

Well, sure. And that's part of the satire because, you know, when you try and go out and date somebody, you're not gonna Be like, ugh, I can read you like a magazine. Like, that's not the type of person you want to date, obviously. So. But by saying that she's. She's also kind of implying on antithesis, on another level that she isn't just talking to a guy, she's talking to the critics. She's, you know, talking to the hashtag haters.

[B]

Then we get this line, so, hey, let's be friends. I'm dying to see how this one ends. So she's now talking about the relationship as if it's a story. Right. How does it end? But we know how it ends. Right. So, in fact, it's not a surprising story. Right. We foreshadowed. She's already said, we know how it ends. This is a mistake. My next mistake. But then comes this great antithesis line. Grab your passport and my hand. I can make the bad guys good for a weekend.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Right? So that's. That's another great line of antithesis. Putting the bad guys against the good guys and talking again about how this is a doomed relationship.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Right. So I can make them good. Well, for a weekend, you know, so. And then she says, you know, so it's going to be forever or it's going to go down in flames. You can tell me when it's over if the high was worth the pain.

[A]

Right. Another line of antithesis.

[B]

Another line of antithesis. And basically what she's doing here in parroting herself is saying, look, our only choices are extremes. Right? Either this is gonna be the greatest relationship, or it's gonna be the worst relationship. And guess what? We all know this isn't the Miracle Guy. Therefore, inevitably, it must be the worst of times.

[A]

Right? Right. Exactly. You know, either I get a 4.0 and I get a Fulbright and a Rhodes Scholarship and I graduate with honors, or I get a cream pie in my face. So just keeping that in mind.

[B]

But she was doing a parody and you're, like, actually going to a real college.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And that's why you wouldn't use it in this particular instance unless you wanted a bunch of cream pies in your house.

[A]

And you know what? This is related to the way that people talked about her and her exes, but basically, the way that Taylor Swift handled, you know, haters, I think is a very productive way to do it in her medium. She chose not just to take the pelting. She fought back. But not by using, like, you know, vitriolic language. Not by being angry. She wrote a song about it and.

[B]

And ironic. And she Used irony. She used irony.

[A]

And I think. I think the way that haters responded to that was also kind of good. I mean, you know, for the list of crimes that society has, you know, charged people with on Twitter, dating people is not the worst. And honestly, it's not valid, you know, compared to some of the other ones. But, you know, I think it is important to always make sure that when you experience, you know, prejudice or bullying, stuff like that, you know, or if you perpetuate it, make sure that in your heart, you know, you're thinking about how you can write a song and defame the person in the long run, not just in the short run, how you can be memorable while you can teach the person a lesson, you know, And.

[B]

And she goes into this part, obviously got a long list of ex lovers, except it sounds like Starbucks lovers, right?

[A]

She notes that.

[B]

And she notes that. And she says that it kind of amused her. She says, whatever it was I was saying something about Starbucks, which was kind of like the most delightful misunderstanding about this song, which was written about misunderstandings, right? So she wrote this song because she believes people misunderstand her and what her social life has been. And here are people misunderstanding.

[A]

And by the way, the thing that she got, you know, pulled over by the media for is dating two guys in one year, which.

[B]

One and a half year, 18 months.

[A]

Is what she said. Yeah, one and a half years. Like. Like, my best friend goes on more hinge dates in like a week. Like, it's crazy and nobody cares because I feel like it's. It's also, the things that people come for her for are things that they would never say to a normal person, like a person who's not famous, you know.

[B]

Well, and she says, you know, my ex lovers, they'll tell you I'm insane. Right? Well, and, you know, you know, famously, later she will say, you know, she'll accuse people of calling her crazy. Right. Every time you call me crazy, it makes me crazier. Right. In the song, what is it? Mad Woman, where she's talking about gaslighting, but in this particular case, she has decided to own it and take it up to the highest level. And again, she says, we'll take this way too far. It'll leave you breathless or with a nasty scar. So again, the two choices you're going to either breathlessness, excitement, or actual scar.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And again. Stolen kisses, pretty lies, you're the king, baby, I'm your queen. And then find out what you want.

[A]

Well, also the stolen kisses and pretty lies. Like if you are a king and queen, you don't have to steal kisses, you know. Right, well, yes.

[B]

And she's putting in a lot of. Of oppositional things.

[A]

Sure, sure, sure. Saying that this is both, you know, a secretive mini relationship and also like elevating him to like the king status. Like he's a king, I'm a queen.

[B]

Yeah, well, and then a particularly, you know, find out what you want. Be that girl for a month. Well, right.

[A]

So she's a good amount of times like a trial period.

[B]

Well, it's like also it's like Spotify. I'm gonna pretend to be somebody else, you know. In other words, this is again another short lived relationship. I can't pretend to be someone else for very long.

[A]

Right. Nobody can. But that's also. I think she also does a good job of pointing out what real life is like. Like you always tell me that and shout out my dad for being a cynic. He always tells me that, you know, don't ever rush into things with somebody because it takes them a few months to reveal their true habits. And then once they show you their true colors, maybe then you can decide to stay. But people hide their like bad habits. You know, they're like watching TV loudly, listening to music with no headphones on, chewing weirdly like.

[B]

Well, now I'll give you. We'll have a digression on this point since I have my daughter here. Yes. In the beginning stage of a relationship, first of all, you get the kick in of the endorphins.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

Right. And they're well known ability to make you not see a person's flaws, make the other person seem more attractive than they really are. And at the same time that person is on their best behavior.

[A]

Right, right.

[B]

So the combination of those two things make them seem ideal in your ey and you see my deal in their eyes. But that is gonna fade. People aren't gonna keep trying to be their best self. And that endorphin kick is going to. That chemical boost is going to fade.

[A]

And that's what led to you and mom getting divorced.

[B]

Yeah, I can cut that out.

[A]

It's okay. I'm over it. It was like 10 years ago.

[B]

It was a while ago.

[A]

50% of marriages end in divorce. And honestly I think it's healthy that people. It's better to get out of a relationship that's not helping you than to stay in and be unhappy. I think.

[B]

Well, as we've talked about many times.

[A]

I think it's great that Taylor's running through guys and by the way, running through guys like, she's not. But, like, I think it's good, you know, honestly, because you're figuring out what you like, you know, when you. When you. You can't really tell what you are as a person. So I think it's important to. To be with other people, whether friends, lovers, cats, dogs, whoever. And you can support that how? Based on how they treat you? You can see yourself reflected.

[B]

Well, don't rush into marriage in the first few years.

[A]

I mean, I would have married Tom Hiddleston within, like, a month and a half, but, like, she can do her own thing. Like, I'm fine with that. More for me, jk. You know, she has hair that's a bit too long for me, but that's okay.

[B]

I think the key point here is that she is sort of making a mockery of the entire situation, and that's. We're now at the point where she is going to flip the entire story, which you called a volta.

[A]

Yes, Right. I called a volta. Allegedly. The liberal left is calling it a volta now. No, this is like an AP lit term. Dude. Go to high school.

[B]

Have to go back to high school. So then she says, wait, the worst is yet to come. Oh, no. Screaming, crying, perfect storms I can make all the tables turn Rose garden filled with thorns Keep you guessing like, oh, my God. Keep second guessing, like, keep you second guessing, like. Oh, my God.

[A]

I'm not even looking at the lyrics.

[B]

Well, you should. You should. You can sing this part here. You can sing the part that I played already.

[A]

I don't.

[B]

Whoa, darling, I'm a bunny.

[A]

Yeah, but, like, you can, like, play it, like, on your thing.

[B]

All right, well, we already played it.

[A]

I'm embarrassed. I'm bashful.

[B]

Oh, man. This is from the woman who. Who. Who wanted multiple pies in her face.

[A]

Is suddenly bashful because then they can't see my blush. Hashtag shy. Hashtag shy.

[B]

Girl, she is. You can tell how shy she is. I think all the listeners know exactly how shy.

[A]

Super shy. We should do a K pop podcast.

[B]

Sing something here.

[A]

Cause darling, I'm a nightmare Dress like.

[B]

A daydream that's not it.

[A]

Yeah, have a. Have a.

[B]

No, no, Try again.

[A]

Cause darling, I'm a knight. Fine. Well, you play it. Play it. You know what?

[B]

I already played at the beginning, but you'll come back each time you leave.

[A]

Because, darling, I'm a nightmare Dressed like a daydream and by the way, period.

[B]

When people talk about this song, they say she talk, sings this. This is A talk singing song.

[A]

Yes. Yes it is. That's the other thing.

[B]

Yes. Right. So this is much more a standout. You know, she is, you know, clearly being very distinctive with this and you know, she keeps going. Then we have the chorus and she repeats it again and now we get to the, the bridge. Crazy alert, crazy alert.

[A]

She just like knows how to do bridges. We can just talk about that one day.

[B]

Now this bridge is even more talk and less singing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know it's boys only want love if it's torture, sing it. Don't say I didn't say I didn't warn you.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

You do it now.

[A]

No. Okay. No, you keep doing it. I loved when you did it. It was genuinely beautiful.

[B]

Well, this is, this is about the boys. Boys only want love if it's torture don't say I didn't say I didn't warn ya.

[A]

Now that was beautiful what we just did.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

What's interesting, have you considered singing like as a career?

[B]

I've considered singing. That's. We'll stop it right there. Yes, we're not. No.

[A]

I believe in you.

[B]

So some people who. One thing I want to say, I want to read something that Taylor wrote about this song. Before diving into that line, she writes, half the people got the joke. She says, half the people really think I was really owning the act, that I'm a psychopath. Which is fine. Either one is fine as long as they know the semblance of the words. Even if they're incorrect.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

And then with a smile, then she smiles and says it was number one for like eight or nine weeks. So I have no complaints as to how things turned out.

[A]

And that is the point. That's the point.

[B]

She doesn't care if you are in on the joke.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or if you take her seriously. And I will tell you, she's the.

[A]

Youngest female self made billionaire. So tbh like right?

[B]

So she isn't.

[A]

As long as you're making bank honeys. As long as you're making bank, don't listen to the haters.

[B]

So you critics out there who are like, she isn't critics. She isn't saying boys only want love if it's torture. Right? This is.

[A]

She's saying, give me money, stream me on Spotify.

[B]

Well, what she's doing is in the guise of the person, the extreme version, this caricature of hers, she's saying, don't say I didn't say I didn't warn you. This is a warning. This is just foreshadow. She's just saying, if I were this person, then I would be telling the boys, if you're with me, it's gonna be torture. Right? She's not saying she's right. So this is the thing that often confuses people. Again, we do have to separate the person in the song from the singer.

[A]

Right, Right.

[B]

As oftentimes with Shakespeare, like I read these Shakespeare critics who will say people get very confused and they think that every single line Shakespeare wrote, he believed. No.

[A]

Lol.

[B]

He's writing a play which has good people and bad people and people who are confused and bewildered.

[A]

Right. People who mistake like a cost for like greet somebody kindly instead of harass somebody. And I don't think he believes that.

[B]

So we're. The point of this song is. No, we're not.

[A]

She did have a lot of sex jokes.

[B]

We're not going to ascribe these words to her. But in the context of the song, she is just saying, I'm warning you all ahead of time. Because of course, if you watch the.

[A]

Music video, which is cray cray Banane.

[B]

Which is just bonkers and off the wall. Off the wall. She burns the guy's clothing. She cuts up the clothing.

[A]

She's a friggin golfer.

[B]

Poisons him with an apple. We're not sure if it's the Sleeping Bat Beauty apple or if it's the Eve from. Cuz she. She bites the apple. When he bites the apple.

[A]

I just want to make it clear Sleeping Beauty did not do an apple. That was a spindle. So get your.

[B]

Oh, sorry about that. I am, I am, I am, I am.

[A]

We have to do a podcast on Hans Christian Anderson.

[B]

Dutifully admonished. But yes. Or it could be the Adam and Eve apple. Where.

[A]

Sure.

[B]

You know. So we don't know that. Except he ends up kind of.

[A]

Or it could be the apple for the apple pie that somebody's gonna throw at me.

[B]

It could be. But please, please mash up those apples, please. Because otherwise you are throwing a lethal weapon. I just want people to know that there will be litigation here.

[A]

It's true.

[B]

If things go awry. No, you can throw the cream pie. Cause that's nice and soft.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you can't throw the dish that holds the pie. That's really, really important. It could be a paper, you know.

[A]

Well, tin. I'd be like, okay with the tin.

[B]

Well, not if they hit you with the tin side, though.

[A]

Though.

[B]

Think about this.

[A]

That's fair.

[B]

Because they may not be good.

[A]

Or it might be hit me with the cream Pie don't hit the. Just. Yeah, well, I'll put out the stipulations on Instagram.

[B]

Look, I think we have to be clear here. Do not. No one really throws the pie. They smash it in your face.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

Right, right. They don't. You would want someone to throw you a pie from like three feet away because you could be hit with any. Ah, right. Angle on for the cream pie.

[A]

I love the sound.

[B]

Sound effect. Jesus.

[A]

That's his actual sound getting hit by a cream pie. And that's beautiful. But yes. So just to be clear. Yeah. And we'll. We talk about symbolism, of course. Because apples, of course, symbolize many things. Red symbolizes things. Everybody knows that. But you know, it's like the point is, is that that antithesis, because of this song is obviously one of her most popular songs. It has like one.

[B]

If that was one of her Kickstarters.

[A]

Basically, like one. One. One point something billion streams on Spotify. It is like literally. I mean, it was the longest. It was one of her longest reigning songs on the Billboard Hot 100. And this is the song that uses antithesis. I mean, that's how important antithesis is. Like, that is like memorability. Memorability, you know?

[B]

Yeah. And I think what you will find is that some of these. So the point is that the use of the word but. And the use of. To create the opposition or the use of antithesis, where you are consciously using some word and its opposite, as you say, it was the best of times, the worst of times to be memorable. These are things you're going to have to think about consciously.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Now I have a question though.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Are we naming the previous episode. I like Big Butts and I cannot lie, because we definitely should. And you guys should go to my dad's house and smash a pumpkin pie in his face. If you don't see that title on Spotify for the previous episode, I think.

[B]

I think it's perfectly acceptable for you to invite pies in your own face. I think it is perhaps antagonistic, frankly, to be suggesting people throw pies.

[A]

Would you say it's anti heroic?

[B]

It could be. It would be very anti heroic.

[A]

Callback.

[B]

Callback. This would be something that I think that Deadpool might do.

[A]

He's cool. I collect the little Deadpool baubles. They're very cute. Big Deadpool fan over here.

[B]

Well, we are, we are. We just wouldn't really invite him over to, you know, maybe dinner.

[A]

Hugh Jackman should be.

[B]

Well, Hugh Jackman, he can come.

[A]

He can Come over.

[B]

With his claws or not.

[A]

Oh, my God.

[B]

So I think we are winding this one down. I think the point is that you know this when you're trying to come up with a clever turn of phrase. And you could do that in a college essay.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you could do that when you are making a presentation in front of your boss.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Or you could do that on your LinkedIn profile.

[A]

TBH.

[B]

Yeah. And I'll tell you, I'm on LinkedIn.

[A]

He's on LinkedIn. Surprise, surprise.

[B]

I am on LinkedIn. Well, I had a blog for a long time, and then other people shut the whole thing down. Oh, my God, get me started.

[A]

But.

[B]

But I realized I could apply these same. I wrote a book, how to Go Viral and Reach Billions. It has all these strategies in it. Everything that we're telling you. These phrases, they're great X tweets, they're great on Instagram, they're great on whatever you. They're great in TikTok. Right. You could build a whole TikTok around an antithesis. Right. That's why you're trying to do it again. The bottom line is, is it's clearly a memorable phrase. She has stuffed an entire song.

[A]

And my dad clearly knows how TikToks work.

[B]

Yes. Right. Well, you could take a clip from her song and then. But the point is, as one of the things we're gonna see with Taylor is not only does she know these viral memory tricks, but she will often take a whole song and kind of build the whole song around one of them. And she did that for this. And this is.

[A]

That's why it's so great to teach with her.

[B]

Yeah. And as we saw, you know, she loves metaphors. And by the way, I want to be clear here, and this is something that will become clearer as we go through the episodes, right. When she says, darling, I'm a nightmare dressed like a daydream, okay. She is using a metaphor in a simile. Right. She calls herself a nightmare.

[A]

That's a metaphor, like, comma, as similes.

[B]

And the simile is like a daydream. Right. So the point is to be successful at this. This goes back to the episode about Mastermind, where every word is chosen for design. You're not going to just use one of these when you want to write your great thing, if you're delivering a eulogy. And all of us, sooner or later gonna have to give one of these. Right. Or we are, you know, called upon to give a speech. Right. People are supposed to give speeches at a friend's wedding or whatever it is, graduation. We do get called on to give speeches. These speeches should be stories filled with all of these memory tricks.

[A]

Amen, brother.

[B]

Right. That's what we're talking about. But it is using them in combination.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

That is what distinguishes a good or great storyteller from someone who just understands some of these. And that's what I get back to this point in the beginning, which is it took me a long time to go from being a person who understood the theory of this and could stick it in my words written to be more fluent in simply talking this way. And one of the ways I do it is listen to Taylor Swift songs over and over again. So I don't just listen to them to find the lines that bother me. I listen to them because I'm trying to really absorb what she's saying. Osmosis, as we sometimes say through repetition. Because as we said in episode two about all too well, which shout out episode two, which repeats the phrase remember it 17 times. The longer you hear something over and over again, the more it's going to be stuck in your memory. So you, you know, as you want to become a great songwriter. Homework. I know you love homework.

[A]

I do. That makes what we're doing more legit. If we are annoying and assign homework.

[B]

Pick one of either the songs that we've discussed already or one of your favorite Taylor songs that really speaks to you, that has some lines that you love and simply listen to it a bunch of times and then write it out by hand. Right. That's another technique for bringing someone's writing that you like into you and write it out by hand and start to think, what about this line? Why does this line stick in my head? Because if a line sticks in your head, it is a memory trick. It is one of the figures of speech.

[A]

It is.

[B]

Right. That's the point. All of those great quotation books, if you Google famous quotes, 95 plus percent of them will be one of these memory tricks. Right? So that's the point. And what Taylor has succeeded in, the reason she goes viral so much is because she stuffs her songs with the best examples of these memory tricks since, oh, Lin Manuel, Miranda, Hamilton and Shakespeare himself. And that's why still call her a modern day Shakespeare. She still is.

[A]

Or Martin Luther King. The arc of the moral universe. The moral universe. Any philosopher can tell you it's not shaped like an ark, but. But if it were, it would bend towards justice. And that is another example of a good metaphor.

[B]

Yeah. And so the point is yes. And I'll give you one final example, which is my friend Van Jones, who I got to know.

[A]

Yeah. Name dropping, name dropping.

[B]

CNN host Van Jones sponsor us.

[A]

Van Jones, he worked.

[B]

I'm also a fan, you know, I worked with him for a couple years and I had looked up in his New Yorker profile, how did he become a good storyteller? Cause I realized people aren't born this way. So when the I.

[A]

Unless you're Lady Gaga.

[B]

When the ipod first came out, he didn't listen to, like, jazz and regular music. He filled his ipod with the speeches.

[A]

Woof. Nerd alone.

[B]

Of Martin Luther King and Ronald Reagan and other great speeches. And he would just listen to them over and over again.

[A]

Damn. Vanjo's Nerd exposed. Well, look, you've been dubbed a nerd, Van Jones. It's okay. You'll join my dad.

[B]

I'll give you one final example, since you are mocking me, my daughter.

[A]

He's sad.

[B]

Sad face.

[A]

It's okay. He'll get over it.

[B]

Bob Dylan.

[A]

Yes. Big fan of him.

[B]

How did he write that particular language? How did he write this? What sounded like old folk song language with single syllables and still managed to get.

[A]

What did he get? He got a Nobel Prize.

[B]

He got the Nobel Prize in Literature. And if you read his autobiography, he says he would go to the New York Public Library.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

To the microfiche.

[A]

What the hell?

[B]

Like the little you. Microfiche is before your time. But they took newspapers and they shrunk them down into a little plastic. Oh, my God.

[A]

Yes. They have those in Stranger Things. They do. Little thingy of them. Oh, my God.

[B]

So he went back and looked at the newspapers of the 20 years before the Civil War, and he said he did it because he liked the rhetoric that they used. So the point is that he didn't just get born speaking that amazing slam poetry, as you put it, Right? All of these things are something that you yourself can master, but it's going to take, take study, effort, repetition and so on. And that's a wrap.

[A]

That's a wrap, man. Or is it the unfurling of the bands of literary justice?

[B]

It's one of those two things.

[A]

I don't know.

[B]

See you next time.

[A]

Bye.