Deep Cover Presents: Snowball

Episode 2: The Great Houdini
Release Date: November 10, 2025
Host: Olly Wards (from the Unravel Podcast team, ABC), presented by Pushkin Industries

Overview

In the second episode of Snowball, Olly Wards continues his investigative journey into the devastating con pulled off by Lesley Manookian, a charismatic Californian whose web of deceit left the Wards family financially and emotionally shattered. This chapter focuses on the immediate aftermath of Lesley’s abrupt departure, exposing the scale of the fraud, how she manipulated banks and individuals, and the surreal discovery of the “Great Houdini” persona at the heart of her schemes. Through interviews and document deep dives, Olly and his family uncover just how audacious Lesley’s scam was — and how systems meant to protect them failed along the way.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Collapse Post-Lesley (05:25–15:00)

• Lesley’s Departure: Lesley leaves New Zealand suddenly, ominously warning, "The snowball is about to hit you." (02:07)
• Immediate Fallout: Within months, the Wards lose their investment in the Dragonfly Cafe, their family home, and over a million dollars. The family is reduced to living in a relative’s basement.
• Financial Devastation & Family Toll: The episode recounts how the discovery of Lesley’s financial mismanagement and mounting debts forced the family to surrender the cafe and their house.
  • "We just were destroyed. We weren't angry. We were just destroyed." – Julie (13:32)
• Global Context: The Ward crisis coincides with the 2008 global financial meltdown, making the family’s plight seem both unique and depressingly universal.
  • "There was a parallel with the world economy at that time as well. Turmoil in the US housing market..." (14:26)

The First Hints of Fraud: Forensic Accounting Dad (16:00–23:00)

• Discovery of Faked Bank Statements:

  • David Ward (the father) finds Lesley’s “proof” of a US trust fund—$5 million in Bank of America—which on close inspection is revealed to be a doctored document created by copying and altering a Barclays Bank statement.
    • “I put one on top of the other and held it up to the light and everything merged... she had actually produced the Bank of America statement by modifying the Barclay bank statement.” – David (22:04)

• Bank’s Oversight: Family is stunned that Kiwibank missed the obvious forgery. David confronts the bank, who are deeply embarrassed but unhelpful.

  • "Your janitors should have found it. Why didn’t you find it?" – David to the Kiwibank management (26:02)

• No Compensation from Bank: Kiwibank initially offers compensation, then retracts. Family learns that trusting the bank’s due diligence was a fatal error.

The Search for Accountability (24:00–35:00)

• Lawyer Conflict: The family’s trusted lawyer drops them due to a “conflict of interest”—he was also representing Lesley and appears to have been swayed by her charm.

• Turning to Politics: Desperate, they seek help from Member of Parliament Rodney Hide, who publicly supports their case but fails to get results from Kiwibank.

• Police Impasse: The NZ police cannot pursue Lesley, as she has already left the country. Only a border alert is placed in case she returns.

  • "It’s unfortunate that by the time this fraud or the likely fraud was realised, she was already well gone." – Det. Insp. Harold Jones (37:50)

Peeling Back the Layers: The Houdini Moment (38:00–52:00)

• Digging Deeper—Fake Personas: The family discovers a recurring character in documentation: “Eric T. Weiss, Esq.,” an alleged US trust attorney who purportedly verified Lesley’s trust fund.

• Unmasking “The Great Houdini”:

  • On investigation, there is no real Eric T. Weiss in California or any Colonial Trust Company at the letterhead address. The only real Eric T. Weiss is a Michigan lawyer who has never met Lesley.
    • "I am the only Eric T. Weiss practicing law in the United States." – Eric T. Weiss, Michigan (51:41)
  • The phone number given for Eric T. Weiss traces to Lesley’s parents’ home.
    • "Perhaps Eric T. Weiss, the fake Eric T. Weiss, was really Andrew R. Manookian." (53:09)
  • The name “Eric T. Weiss” is also the real name of Harry Houdini, the famous escape artist… a wink from Lesley at her own cons.
    • "Don’t call yourself Houdini, you know, when you’re doing your fraud." – Simon (54:38)

• Notable Moment: When this realization dawns, Simon reacts in dismay and awe:

  • "It’s a big middle finger. That’s fucking out there. I was just gobsmacked..." – Simon (55:13)

Hacking for the Truth (56:00–64:00)

• Dad Becomes a 60-Something Hacker: David hacks into Lesley’s email, discovering a trove of thousands of messages.
• Family’s Ethical Dilemma: Olly debates whether to use these emails, but decides they’re vital to truly understanding what happened:
  • “Leaving them in the box would have meant not truly understanding what happened. So I decided to read them.” (63:05)

The Many Faces of Lesley (64:00–75:00)

• Lesley’s Self-Portrayal: Olly finds a self-written bio in which Lesley calls herself a “survivor” and adrenaline junkie, painting the persona she sold to those around her.

• Relationship With Parents:

  • Lesley constantly sends money to her parents, sometimes using startup cash from the Dragonfly. Her mother Betty repeatedly tries to set limits, saying, "This is the last time you’re going to use our credit card... we are your poor parents who are in deep shit debt." (70:55)

• Parental Involvement—Willful Ignorance or Complicity?:

  • Lesley’s parents maintain the story of her inaccessible trust fund, and echo messaging suggested by “Eric T. Weiss”. Olly suspects Lesley is feeding them lines to repeat.
  • “It seems like she’s just rehashing what Eric said to say...” (74:10)

• Eric T. Weiss as Lesley’s Puppet:

  • Many of "Eric’s" emails to Lesley's parents are nearly identical to the phrases they send to the Wards, suggesting Lesley uses the invented persona to manipulate her own family.

The Aftermath & Cliffhanger (76:00–end)

• Lesley Files for Divorce: Lesley initiates legal separation from Greg once the accusations fly:

  • "I am sorry that now you will never really know what was real or not." – Lesley, in divorce letter (61:28)
  • Greg’s reflection: "It actually shows that she was holding out… she said, you know, 'You don’t really know me.' Well, she was the one preventing me from knowing." (62:22)

• Search for Other Victims: Olly and Greg believe there must be other people Lesley has conned, so they start searching for records from Lesley’s earlier life in Hawaii.

  • “We are battling them and I will find out the truth.” – Greg, letter to Hawaiian State Police (77:35)
  • Next episode tease: Local Hawaiian police chief remembers Lesley as “the scammer and she’s lucky she left.” (79:12)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Lesley’s Ominous Farewell:

  • "The snowball is about to hit you." – Lesley to Greg (02:07)

• On the Collapse:

  • "We just were destroyed. We weren't angry. We were just destroyed." – Julie (13:32)

• On Discovering the Forgery:

  • "Held it up to the light and everything merged. She had actually produced the Bank of America statement by modifying the Barclay bank statement." – David (22:04)

• On Being Failed by the Bank:

  • "Your janitors should have found it. Why didn’t you find it?" – David to Kiwibank (26:02)

• On Kiwibank’s Embarrassment:

  • "Ooh. Aah. Ooah. Ooh. Ah. Oo. Ah. They were totally embarrassed, very, very embarrassed about this." – Julie (28:20)

• On Uncovering “The Great Houdini”:

  • "Don’t call yourself Houdini, you know, when you’re doing your fraud." – Simon (54:38)

• On Lesley’s Manipulation:

  • "She’s a sociopath. She’s trying to gild the lily, blame other people, manipulation. So what I make of that is just total crap. To be honest." – Greg (61:48)

• On the Family’s Determination:

  • "We are battling them and I will find out the truth." – Greg (77:35)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment Description | |-------------|-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:07 | Lesley’s parting words: “The snowball is about to hit you.” | | 13:32 | Family’s devastation at losing their home. | | 22:04 | The discovery of the forged bank statement. | | 26:02 | David confronts Kiwibank with proof of fraud. | | 37:50 | Detective Inspector explains why police investigation stalled. | | 51:41 | Real Eric T. Weiss confirms he was impersonated in the fraud. | | 53:09 | Phone number for Eric T. Weiss leads to Lesley’s parents’ house. | | 54:38 | Simon’s reaction to the Houdini alias. | | 61:28 | Lesley’s divorce letter: “now you will never really know what was real or not.” | | 62:22 | Greg’s emotional reflection on Lesley’s deception. | | 70:55 | Betty’s (Lesley’s mother) plea about ending credit card use. | | 77:35 | Greg writes to Hawaiian State Police seeking the truth. | | 79:12 | Teaser: Hawaiian chief remembers Lesley as “the scammer.” |

Conclusion

Episode 2 of Snowball intensifies the scope of Lesley’s deception, from forged documents and invented personas to the emotional wreckage left behind. The Wards’ determined, sometimes unconventional, search for answers exposes not only the mind-boggling ingenuity of a scammer but the systemic failures that allowed her to succeed. As the trail heads toward Hawaii, the personal stakes—and the scale of Lesley’s duplicity—grow ever higher.

Next episode preview: The investigation shifts to Lesley’s mysterious past in Hawaii, with a local police chief bluntly remembering her as a notorious scammer the community was glad to see the back of.