Deep Cover Presents: Snowball

Episode 7: The Morning After

Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Ollie Wards
Production: Pushkin Industries, in partnership with the Unravel Podcast (ABC Australia)

Overview

In the penultimate episode of "Snowball," Ollie Wards reflects on the aftermath of tracking down Lesley, the Californian con woman who upended his family’s life. Ollie seeks closure—not only for himself and his family but also for the audience—by exploring the psychological motivations behind cons, the human complexity of Lesley’s story, and the long-lasting impact on both victims and perpetrator. The episode grapples with the messy, ambiguous emotional fallout rather than delivering a neatly packaged ending.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The “Morning After” Meeting with Leslie

• 00:53 Ollie and his brother Simon wake up the day after reconnecting with Lesley, feeling unsettled but empathetic.
  • “I did feel sorry for Leslie and I felt that there was genuine sadness and maybe even a touch of remorse from her side of things.” – Ollie (01:54)
• Ollie questions whether he, like others, is being charmed by Lesley or experiencing authentic remorse from her.

Leslie Pulls Away

• 04:09 Ollie receives a text from Lesley, declining further participation.
  • “All the things you asked about is all 10-plus years ago and I have moved on... I do not wish to bring it all back.”
• Ollie realizes he won’t get the full closure or in-depth confession he’d hoped for, as Leslie refuses more interviews.

New Revelations: Leslie’s Hardships

• 06:36 In a coastal town Leslie worked in, a local acquaintance tells Ollie that Leslie was homeless during her time there.
  • “She was homeless for a time... she slept at the campgrounds... she slept in the back of her car.”
• Ollie reflects:
  • “Nobody deserves to be homeless... I just really hope that ... something can jolt Leslie out of this because she's not winning out of any of this.” (08:46)
• Simon responds empathetically, showing unexpected sorrow despite Leslie’s actions:
  • “My heart sinks a little bit, I'm like, f***, you don't really wish that kind of s*** on anyone.” (10:30)

The Psychology of the Con Artist

• 12:21 Renowned psychologist and writer Maria Konnikova explains classic con artist motivation:
  • Quote: “I think it’s a huge misperception that con artists are motivated by money... They’re motivated in the sense of power over other people, control over other people’s lives... that feeling of power is actually one of the reasons ... true con artists are repeat offenders.” (13:04, Maria Konnikova)
• Ollie reflects this back on Leslie’s repeated patterns and possible motivations—a need for control, more than financial gain.

The “Fictional” Eric T. Weiss

• Leslie fails to provide contact details for “Eric T. Weiss,” confirming for Ollie that the character was invented for the con (15:31).

The Question of Leslie’s Parents

• 16:00 Ollie ponders whether Leslie’s parents were complicit or themselves deceived.
• Maria Konnikova’s insight:
  • “Oftentimes ... people like the parents aren’t in on the con ... you have to remember they’ve been living with a con artist for the entire life ... and it’s their daughter... those are families are often the biggest victims.”
• Reaching out to her parents yields no response.

Escalation and Fallout

• 18:42 Lesley grows hostile upon learning the podcast is investigating her history locally.
  • Quote: “Lose my number. A journalist doesn’t slander a person’s character at their old workplace. This is not a story for your podcast. This is revenge trip. So f****d.” (19:22, Leslie’s text)
  • She goes as far as threatening restraining orders against Ollie and Simon.

Reflections and Resolution

Examining Sympathy

• Ollie feels sadness rather than vengeance for Leslie and those affected.
• He wonders if, in the end, Leslie is her own biggest victim, trapped in cycles she cannot break.

Family Recovery and Perspective

• 22:31 Greg, Ollie's brother, reflects with less sympathy:
  • “It’s hard to feel sorry for someone when they clearly have choices... her being homeless ... that will be a consequence of her actions.”
• However, Greg acknowledges his own positive outcome:
  • “I have a beautiful, highly supportive, intelligent wife and we have a pretty magical young daughter... all of the good things are ahead of us.”
• Ollie’s parents also managed to rebuild their lives:
  • “In many ways, it brought us all together... It’s a gratitude. It’s nothing to do with her. It’s how loved and cared for we are...” (25:00, Ollie's father)

The Real Takeaway

• Ollie and Simon agree the ordeal changed but strengthened their family:
  • “I’m actually really proud of us through it as well... I always repeat it, but... the reason that I don’t feel angry with her ... is just because of how close it made us... Love you guys.” (26:10, Simon)
• Greg shares his wisdom on ordinary happiness:
  • “The important things are the things that are pretty close to you, like family and friends ... The good life is hopefully what most people can get ... and there’s a beauty to simplicity that’s hard to replace with money and possessions.” (28:30, Greg)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On remorse and regret:
  • “I did feel sorry for Leslie and I felt that there was genuine sadness and maybe even a touch of remorse from her side of things.” (01:54, Ollie)
• On con artists’ motivations:
  • “They're motivated in the sense of power over other people's lives... that feeling of power is actually one of the reasons that con artists are, more often than not, repeat offenders.” (13:04, Maria Konnikova)
• On family recovery:
  • “In many ways, it brought us all together... It’s how loved and cared for we are...” (25:00, Ollie's father)
• On the beauty of simplicity:
  • “There’s a beauty to simplicity that’s hard to replace with money and possessions. They ultimately don’t really satisfy.” (28:58, Greg)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 01:54 – Ollie's reflections on Leslie’s remorse and his doubts.
• 04:09 – Lesley’s text withdrawing from further conversations.
• 06:36 – Townsfolk detail Leslie’s homelessness.
• 08:46–10:30 – Emotional reactions to Leslie’s hardship.
• 13:04 – Maria Konnikova on the psychology behind con artists.
• 15:31 – Confirmation of Eric T. Weiss's fictitious identity.
• 16:00–16:55 – Analysis of the parents’ perspective and complicity.
• 19:22 – Lesley’s harsh message threatening legal action.
• 22:31 – Greg’s hardline perspective on consequences and choices.
• 25:00–26:10 – Reflections from parents and Simon on family resilience.
• 28:30–28:58 – Greg on the true value of ordinary happiness.

Tone

The episode is tinged with sadness but also insight, empathy, and a quiet gratitude. Ollie’s narration remains gentle, introspective, human, and even self-questioning, refusing to deliver facile closure or easy judgments. The Wards family alternates between cynical protectiveness and deep familial love.

Conclusion

Episode 7 brings the investigation full circle, acknowledging the ambiguity and complexity left in Lesley’s wake. Ollie and his family choose understanding, closeness, and reflection over vengeance or bitterness, offering a deeply human perspective on surviving deception and moving on. As the season draws to a close, the central lesson is that what matters most was always right in front of them: ordinary family, hard-won resilience, and the capacity to find meaning in life’s messiness.

For further reading and extra content:

• Feature article & video at ABC's Unravel True Crime website
• Instagram: @olliewards | Hashtag: #UnravelTrueCrime