Beige Is Anything but Boring with David Kleinberg

Summary

Deep Dive in Design: Beige Is Anything but Boring with David Kleinberg

Release Date: October 29, 2024

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Introduction

In the episode titled "Beige Is Anything but Boring," host Dara Caponigro welcomes renowned interior designer David Kleinberg to discuss the nuanced world of neutral spaces in interior design. The conversation delves into debunking the common misconception that neutral palettes are dull, highlighting how thoughtful design can create spaces that are both serene and captivating.

The Myth of Neutral Spaces

Dara opens the discussion by addressing the belief that neutral spaces are inherently boring. She praises David's ability to create beautiful neutral environments and seeks his insights on maintaining interest within such palettes.

Dara Caponigro [00:24]:
"But we're here today to debunk the myth that neutral spaces are boring."

Balancing Neutrality and Interest

David acknowledges his affinity for restrained color schemes, emphasizing that neutrality doesn't equate to monotony. He explains that the key lies in the interplay of textures, natural finishes, and thoughtful color usage.

David Kleinberg [00:50]:
"Neutrals can be just that, neutral, but they just take more time to know and to open up."

He attributes part of his design philosophy to the late Van de Truax, who advocated for avoiding the "big bowl of porridge" effect that neutrals can sometimes fall into. Instead, David focuses on creating nuanced spaces that engage the viewer over time.

The Role of Materials in Neutral Design

A significant portion of the conversation centers on David's preferred materials, which play a pivotal role in adding depth and interest to neutral rooms. He expresses a particular fondness for oak, describing it as the "most friendly wood" due to its versatility and ability to complement various design elements.

David Kleinberg [04:50]:
"I always describe oak as the most friendly wood. Some woods will fight you. They don't want to be any other color than they want to be. You know, walnut wants to be the color it is. Oak is the Labrador Retriever of woods. You know, it'll do whatever you want it to do. It just wants to please."

Other favored materials include parchment, bronze, burnished nickel, limestones, honed marbles, neutral-toned leathers, suedes, and various woven fabrics. These materials contribute to the tactile and visual richness of his designs.

Symmetry and Balance in Spaces

David discusses the importance of symmetry and balance in creating harmonious environments. Drawing from his extensive training under Albert Hadley, he emphasizes starting design projects by considering the architecture and geometry of the space.

David Kleinberg [06:19]:
"In order to create a pleasant environment, there has to be a certain balance. And that doesn't have to be perfect symmetry with pairs and pairs, but there has to be a balance to the space."

He elaborates that balance doesn't necessarily mean identical arrangements but rather a thoughtful consideration of the room's landscape, including the relative heights of furnishings and decorative elements.

The Importance of Form and Fabric

Form plays a crucial role in David's design approach. He believes that every element within a room—from lamps to chair legs—should contribute to an overall visual dialogue, creating an engaging and cohesive space.

David Kleinberg [07:54]:
"If you can make an interesting line drawing out of the room, then it's going to be an interesting and appealing room."

Regarding fabrics, David favors woven patterns over prints, treating them as integral design elements rather than mere decorations. He uses prints sparingly, often limiting them to furniture with frames to emulate the presence of framed artwork.

Achieving Warmth in Minimalist Design

Despite his minimalist tendencies, David ensures that his neutral rooms never feel cold or uninviting. This warmth is achieved through strategic layering, varied textures, and careful lighting.

David Kleinberg [09:17]:
"A neutral doesn't mean minimal. It doesn't mean an absence of panel details, an absence of flooring patterns, an absence of crown base, door trim, moldings, an absence of layers of pillows and a throw on a sofa, a soft rug over a sisal woven carpet over a wood floor."

He underscores the importance of multi-layered lighting, advocating for a combination of overhead lights and lampshades to create a warm and comfortable ambiance.

Patterns and Carpets in Neutral Rooms

David highlights the role of patterned rugs and carpets in unifying and grounding spaces. He appreciates patterned carpets for their ability to tie together multiple seating areas and provide a cohesive foundation for the room's layout.

David Kleinberg [10:30]:
"I always hate to think of furniture if it looks like it's clutching onto a life raft in the room. And so I do think it can hold. Often our rooms have more than one seating area, so it helps sort of unify the space and give you, you know, a good base to go off from."

Historical Inspirations in Neutral Design

When asked about his favorite neutral rooms from history, David cites Billy Baldwin's apartment as a quintessential example of efficient and elegant neutral design. He admires Baldwin's ability to select materials and furnishings that reflect a clear and cohesive vision.

David Kleinberg [11:17]:
"Billy Baldwin is still somebody I go back to again and again and again and look at the clarity of his vision."

Conclusion

The episode culminates with Dara expressing her appreciation for David's insights and design wisdom. David reflects on the importance of creating spaces that resonate with individuals' lifestyles and preferences, underscoring that true comfort in design stems from authenticity and thoughtful consideration.

David Kleinberg [12:31]:
"Albert lived in a way that was completely resonated with who he was and how he lived."

This episode of Deep Dive in Design offers a comprehensive exploration of neutral design, demonstrating that with the right approach, beige and other neutral tones can create sophisticated, warm, and endlessly interesting spaces.

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Notable Quotes:

• David Kleinberg [00:50]:
  "Neutrals can be just that, neutral, but they just take more time to know and to open up."

• David Kleinberg [04:50]:
  "I always describe oak as the most friendly wood... it'll do whatever you want it to do."

• David Kleinberg [07:54]:
  "If you can make an interesting line drawing out of the room, then it's going to be an interesting and appealing room."

• David Kleinberg [09:17]:
  "A neutral doesn't mean minimal... All of these elements go into creating a room that I think doesn't feel cold."

• David Kleinberg [11:17]:
  "Billy Baldwin is still somebody I go back to again and again and again and look at the clarity of his vision."

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Stay tuned for next week's episode of Deep Dive in Design for more expert insights into the world of decorating.

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast series in which Frederick's editor in chief, Dara Caponigro, and fellow editors are joined by design industry leaders to share their unique insights, experiences, and knowledge on the world of decorating.

[B]

Hi, everyone. I'm Derek Haponigro. Today we're here with a very talented David Kleinberg. So, David, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us today.

[C]

Thanks.

[B]

So we're here today because this subject matter is very near and dear to my heart. We're talking about neutral spaces and how to make them interesting. But we're here today to debunk the myth that neutral spaces are boring. And I couldn't think of anyone better to join us today because your spaces are always so beautiful, and you've been doing it for a long time. This practice in neutrality. And I just thought, I would love to hear your perspective on it.

[C]

Yeah, of course. I mean, I suppose I am somewhat associated with, you know, a certain amount of restraint in color. I do work with color, but I've stayed consistent to my interest. And, you know, I'm drawn to neutrals, textures, natural finishes, and they're very important in the work I do. Van de Truax, who kind of was a great director of Parsons and Tiffany's, used to say, you know, you need to avoid a big bowl of porridge that neutrals can fall into a kind of. Neutrals can be just that, neutral, but they just take more. You know, they take more time to know and to open up.

[B]

So what are your secrets, then, to distinguishing a neutral group?

[C]

I was really lucky. As you know, we've known each other a long time. I was trained by Albert Hadley. You know, he was one of the greats because he could work in so many genres and styles. That's always been important to me. But decoration isn't just fabric. I think with working with neutrals, you need to consider, obviously, the architecture of the space, which has always been incredibly important to me. That's an essential element. What's the geometry of the space, then? It's the shapes of the furniture, the finishes of the furniture. Woods, lacquers, metals, stones, glass, what's reflective. These all go in. All of these elements go into what makes a neutral room not boring. And then within neutrals, there are an enormous amount of textures, weaves, fabrications. So you put all of that together, and I think the rooms aren't neutral at all. They're nuanced, maybe is a better word.

[B]

Yeah, that is a good word. So have you always been drawn to quieter rooms?

[C]

I think so. Yes. Except when I was about 14 or 13 in my own bedroom in Long Island, I had this mad idea. I thought I probably, my poor mother probably figured out I was not going to be the lawyer or doctor I was supposed to be. And I painted one wall of my bedroom. I thought this was very innovative. I painted one wall of my bedroom high gloss pumpkin orange. And then. Which I found out painting high gloss paint was not so easy.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So I have a lot of respect for painters who do that high gloss finish. I don't know. And I was a very neat kid. So I did do all the sanding, I did do all the taping, I did do all of that to make sure it looked as good as a 14 year old could make it. And then I thought that this faux leopard print was the perfect thing to make bed covers with. So, I mean, you can imagine what that room looked like.

[B]

It looks kind of great, though.

[C]

So, I mean. But I guess. But after that, I sort of think I found my comfort zone.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. But I have great respect for people who use a lot of color and pattern. It's not that I don't like it. It's just, you know, you reach a certain point in your life and you know yourself and you know what you like, and that's fine, too.

[C]

Yeah, I mean, I guess that's why it's called the comfort zone.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[C]

You do find what resonates with you. And, you know, I think we all vibrate at a certain frequency.

[B]

Yeah. So do you think neutral rooms do something for people? Do they make you calm? Do they?

[C]

I'm not really sure, but I think the response I always get and continue to get, which means the most to me, is they look comfortable. Somebody might think comfortable is a pejorative term. To me, it is exactly part of the goal. I have always said I design rooms to be lived in and not to be photographed. And maybe that's why I'm comfortable with neutrals.

[B]

In preparing for this, I looked at a lot of your work and I was struck by your use of materials. So we touched on that. Are there any new materials or things that you go to again and again because you find them so alluring?

[C]

Yeah. I'm a real predictable classicist for 20th century masters, if you will. And so I've always been drawn to oak. I always describe oak as the most friendly wood. Some woods will fight you. They don't want to be any other color than they want to be. You know, walnut wants to be the color it is. Oak is the Labrador Retriever of woods. You know, it'll do whatever you want it to do. It just wants to please. Love oak. Love oak. I love parchment. I love bronze. I love burnished nickel. I love limestones. I love a lot of sort of, you know, honed marbles. I like neutral toned leathers and suedes. I like anything that's woven. You know, there are things I definitely go back to.

[B]

It's a good group to have in your arsenal.

[A]

We're going to take a quick break to thank the sponsor of today's show, Patterson Flynn. Since its founding in 1943, Patterson Flynn has been the go to source for the finest carpets and rugs. Its craftsmanship, exquisite artistry, and service of the highest caliber on all their clients. Projects are unmatched. So if you're a designer interested in learning more about Patterson Flynn's portfolio and services, apply to join their trade [e-mail].

[B]

And tell me about symmetry. Can you talk about that?

[C]

Well, it goes back to, you know, because of how I was trained, people say, you know, where did you go to design school? And I said, Yes, I spent 16 years working for Albert Hadley, so I probably had a better design education than lots of people. And that was really incredibly lucky to sort of, you know, have that as my professor, if you will, somebody who would critique my work, you know, so I always start something from the architectural part of it. What's the box? What are we doing? And in order to create a pleasant environment, there has to be a certain balance. And that doesn't have to be perfect symmetry with pairs and pairs, but there has to be a balance to the space. And once I feel that that exists, then you have more liberty to fill that box.

[B]

I mean, one thing that I noticed is that when you do have symmetry, they're not exactly. Your two tables are not treated exactly in the same.

[C]

They don't have to be. But, you know, I always, you know, and I still talk to people in the office about the landscape of a room, and I think that's a really important aspect that has to be considered. What are the relative heights of things? If there's a tall opening to the room, do are you balancing it with a table and a tall picture or a tall mirror? Are you balancing it with an etagere or a bookcase? Is it A mantelpiece with an overmantel? Is it? And so all of those things has to be considered. Decoration is a 3D art form, and you have to think of it that way.

[B]

That's true. And tell us about Form. I know that form really plays in your interiors.

[C]

You know, I think about the form of, you know, what's the shape of a lamp versus the shape of a chair leg? I mean, I suppose a lot of people think that they're not related, but to me, they are related. I always think if you can make an interesting line drawing out of the room, then it's going to be an interesting and appealing room. Not that, I mean, oh, if the sofa has a curved arm, the chair has to have a curved arm, the lamp needs to be curved, but there needs to be a conversation between the shapes and the forms and the geometry of the spaces. And I think that's true in fabrics, too. If there's a chevron pattern in one thing, does it want to be balanced with a stripe or a more organic shape? And how do those work?

[B]

And in terms of fabrics, you tend to use wovens more than prints, right?

[C]

I tend to use wovens a lot because wovens, to me, are a print. I do use prints. I use them in limited ways. I use them. I like prints on furniture with frames, because then to me, they're like paintings. They're framed. You can see the pattern. You can highlight it, you can center it. I love textures. I always have. I love, you know, I love textures in carpets, in rugs. I love textures on fabrics. You know, whether it's a boucle, whether it's, you know, something, you know, woven.

[B]

Your rooms tend to be pretty minimal, but they never are cold. So how do you achieve that?

[C]

Well, kind of a certain layering and there's a certain, you know, dimensionality to it. So they're not, you know, neutral. Doesn't mean minimal. It doesn't mean an absence of panel details, an absence of flooring patterns, an absence of crown base, door trim, moldings, an absence of layers of pillows and a throw on a sofa, a soft rug over a sisal woven carpet over a wood floor. Lighting. Lighting is incredibly important to create warmth and comfort. So lamp light. I'm a big believer in lampshades. You know, I look at so many rooms that are photographed, and I think, where's the lighting coming from? No one wants to sit in a room with just overhead lighting. You know, at my age, I. I look like a corpse in daylight. I mean, you know, it's just a bad thing. You need level of lighting. So all of these elements go into creating a room that I think doesn't feel cold.

[B]

I noticed that you do patterned rugs sometimes, and you have that beautiful collection for Patterson Flynn of Some patterned rugs. So tell us about the floor. You talked a little bit about, you know, oak and wood finishes, but how about carpet?

[C]

Well, I mean, I do like patterned carpets. And whether they're actually patterned with color or patterned. I mean, we've done lots of pattern rugs with texture. In those days, you used to have graph paper with grids on it, and you do your layouts on it. And I guess pattern rugs still remind me of that, but it's sort of the grid that holds the furniture together. I always hate to think of furniture if it looks like it's clutching onto a life raft in the room. And so I do think it can hold. Often our rooms have more than one seating area, so it helps sort of unify the space and give you, you know, a good base to go off from.

[B]

What is one of your most favorite neutral rooms from history?

[C]

Oh, gosh, they'd probably all be a Billy Baldwin room. I mean, you know, probably Billy Baldwin's own apartment that he had. He had a little one room studio apartment on 61st street between Lexington and 3rd Avenue that I thought was probably the penultimate expression of efficiency, not only of furniture plan, because it was a brilliant furniture plan, but of selection of materials. You know, Billy Baldwin is still somebody I go back to again and again and again and look at the clarity of his vision.

[B]

Well, I got to photograph Albert's apartment toward the end of his life, and I was so struck by how small it was and how modest it was. Yeah, I mean, I thought that was so beautiful. You know, he didn't need tons of stuff, and there was no ostentation. Everything was just perfect and well appointed, and that was really nice to see.

[C]

Yeah, no, it was what was appropriate for the individual. And Albert lived in a way that was completely resonated with who he was and how he lived.

[B]

Well, thank you so much. It was really a pleasure speaking with you and learning all about your amazing work and the thought behind it. And I appreciate your taking the time to.

[C]

Well, you're really nice to invite me. Thank you.

[A]

Thanks for joining us today. Stay tuned for next week's episode of Deep Dive.