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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Deep Dive, a podcast series in which Frederick's editor in chief, Dara Caponigro and fellow editors are joined by design industry leaders to share their unique insights, experiences and knowledge on the world of decorating.
- [00:16]
B
Hi, I'm Ohenya Soto, the design and decoration director for Frederick and I'm thrilled to welcome today's Deep Dive guest, Sophie ashby. She was 25 when she launched her eponymous firm, Studio Ashby, with just a single client. Fast forward 10 years later and Sophie is not only an award winning designer, but also the founder of Sister and online and also a brick and mortar retail venture and the co founder of United Design, a charitable initiative with a mission to address the lack of diversity in interior design and so much more that we'll get into. Welcome Sophie. I'm so excited to chat with you today.
- [00:48]
C
Hi, thanks so much for having me.
- [00:49]
B
So let's just launch right into it. So after two years of working with Victoria Fairfax, who's, you know, like a grand dom of the London design scene, and then spending some time at a multidisciplinary creative agency, you started your own firm at just 25 years old and one client. What gave you the confidence to go out on your own and when did you know that it was the right time to do that?
- [01:13]
C
I look back at it and it just, it just wasn't a big thing at the time. I didn't think I was launching a company. I didn't think I was really going out on my own. I, I had an opportunity to take on a project on my own and the design fee was the same as my annual salary that I was being paid at the studio I was working at. And I just, I had nothing to lose. I had no children, no mortgage, no real responsibilities. I was renting a spare room from a friend. And yeah, I really just didn't think very hard about it. I think I got as far as thinking that the, I'll survive financially for the year if I just do this and if it doesn't work out, I can just go and get another job. So there was no business plan, there was no savings, there was no real thought and, and it's all worked out so well. Yeah, it has. I think it took me a good six months to a year to, to realize I'd actually started a business. I just didn't take it all very, very seriously. I think I just, I went into it assuming I'd fail just because I was so underprepared.
- [02:26]
B
But you're now celebrating 10 years of studio Ashby this year. And I mean, it's incredible that you didn't think that you would make it a year. How did you kind of like scale up to that and like how did you, did you sort of like learn as you went? When did it feel like it had become a real business?
- [02:44]
C
I still, I still don't really feel like it's a real business. I think there are certain things that help you realize, such as the book coming out and such as taking on the Blue Coat School, our design studio. There are these key moments in the last 10 years that do make me take stock, realize where we've been and what we've achieved and where we could go. And those are the moments that make me feel like we've really built something and we're here to stay and it's going to last. But I don't think anyone who owns their own business in this climate and economy and who employs staff has a fearlessness that it will all last forever. I think part of the thrill is that knife edge feeling.
- [03:34]
B
That's such an incredible way to describe it. So in terms of your own style, how has it evolved since you began?
- [03:42]
C
I think it's just matured and grown and it's an ever evolving, alive, pulsing, changing thing. You know, we're always reacting to everything where you've been, whether it's your last holiday or the last exhibition you went to, or the latest issue of a magazine that you're reading, or the. The newest recruit in your design team who's bringing a new perspective from wherever they've been. You know, I think it's the studio and the ideas flying around are ever changing and growing. And I'm very clear about not getting in my own way. You know, I don't want to set any rules or boundaries or repeat myself. So I think if you stay in a place of openness and you're willing to absorb and introduce new ideas through whatever medium you find them, I think that is the success of a long lasting studio. You know, we've been here for 10 years, I hope we'll be here for a lot longer. And I think if you stand still or get in your own way, the odds of that happening diminish.
- [04:58]
B
And in terms of trends, you, I've heard you talk about them, about not falling sway to them. How do you create interiors that feel current but still are timeless? And what are some elements that make them feel timeless to you?
- [05:14]
C
Yeah, I've got a bit of an issue with trends and, and everyone's fixation on them. I totally understand it. But I think it's very difficult for an interior designer to participate in all of that without essentially voiding yourself because they are such fleeting, transient things by their nature that if you succumb, because they are sort of seductive in many ways, in the way you're fed them via Instagram, social media and Pinterest and magazine, sometimes you do sort of, sort of fall for one, which happens in the studio. And then we kind of have to catch ourselves and step away from the trend and try and zoom out and think about it in terms of this long lasting timelessness that we are searching for. I don't really know. It's very hard to describe how you create something timeless. But I think it's about the mix of things. I think it's about fusing old and new and refined materials with more raw materials. I like to keep things pretty simple and honest when it comes to natural materials, using natural textiles and playing with texture. But it's hard, it's. It's a hard thing to describe. How do you identify the thing that you think is long lasting versus a flash in the pan? And it's so instinctive.
- [06:35]
B
So what are some, like, would you. When some of the trends that come your way that you kind of get enamored with and then kick out, what are those types of things that have occurred in recently?
- [06:48]
C
Like the, in the uk, there's a big trend towards almost like chintz, cottagey, scalloped edges, twee. And I love all of that. And if I had a little country cottage, I'm sure I'd start thinking about all those things as well. But I don't know. I think it's. Yeah, it's social media. It just, it just, just expands these things and, and blows them out of proportion so quickly because everyone's so desperate and hungry to ident and jump on that bandwagon, that something which shouldn't be sort of cancelled because it's so trendy ends up feeling like passe. And it's actually a classic like, like Cream Bootle, for example. Lots of people are saying to me now, I can't stand boot clay. And I, I get it, it's everywhere. But at the same time it's, it's a sadness to me to kind of get rid of Cream Bootle because it's really just cream.
- [07:44]
B
And I wonder if some of what you're saying is that if it doesn't feel that it's right for your sensibility, you can kind of sense it, even if it's a trend or something that's really popular and you like it even. Maybe it just doesn't feel right for you.
- [07:58]
C
Yeah, absolutely. But, you know, maybe it's right for the client. Maybe they've fallen in love with it. And in that instance, I'm not going to put up a wall. I think it's. There's to and fro and you can make the argument and against something.
- [08:11]
B
Right, of course.
- [08:13]
C
Well, I think the first thing is to think about the. The building itself. What are you dealing with? Is it heritage, period architecture? What's the light like? Where are you? All those very obvious key early things, and particularly in the uk, when you're working on historic properties, there's huge amounts of rules and restrictions about what you can and can't do. And so there's no use imagining something which you're never going to get permission to do through planning. So you've got to work with what you've got. And then the next thing is that the other thing that you've got is your client and what they want and who they are and how they live and who's living there and all of those important questions about the life they imagine there and what's important to them. And then you get into the creative part about, you know, colour and pattern and art and what all those beautiful things might start to look like. Yeah. And then once you start to formulate a plan about who the house is for and what the house is bringing to the table on its own, one of the first things that I start to think about is the art, because I just feel that an artwork in a room has so much power.
- [09:31]
B
Art plays such a central role in your design process. So if you're working on a project from scratch, where there's no art collection, where do you start the process of building a collection?
- [09:41]
C
It's kind of a beauty parade. You know, we just start weaving into the concept presentation, some of the artwork that we feel would really do wonders for the room. And I'm always looking for artworks that feel like they can kind of reach out of the frame and move you somehow. So interesting.
- [10:04]
B
I love that comment. I've never really heard someone say it quite in that way, but I love that.
- [10:10]
C
Yeah. You know, I think there's obviously just so much to choose from and so many artists and such a lot out there, but when I think about what you actually want to live with and look at every day in your own space, that's what I'm looking for. You know, it's not just nice or it's not just Beautiful. It's not. Not just I like that or oh, that's interesting. It's. It's got to be more than that. It's got to be. Does it. Yeah. Affect you somehow emotionally, in a good way or a bad way? You know, my husband likes work that kind of affects you with sadness somehow, that's kind of moody. And I like that too, sometimes. But it depends on where in the house you are and what you're doing in that space. If you feel like it's a place for contemplation and, you know, somewhere you spend time on your own, perhaps with your thoughts more. But then there's. There's different art that I'd want to live in during the day with my family.
- [11:14]
B
So along those lines, if a client has an already existing art collection and you don't feel like it works with. With the plan or the project, what do you. What do you do about it? What do you advise them? Is it about relocating art to a different space, as you say, or is it something sometimes about selling it or putting it in storage? What do you. How do you approach that very delicate thing?
- [11:43]
C
Very delicate thing. Well, a lot of people come. All of our clients really come to us because they like what we do, obviously. And all of them connect with me personally in some way because of this art element. And so more often than not, the client has got a lovely art collection. And also, I have not got such an ego to suggest to somebody who's a grown up who bought that painting because they wanted to, that it's not important. You know, I think things and possessions can hold a lot of power and sentimentality and nostalgia, and those are important things to live with. And so if I don't personally like the thing, then yeah, maybe it's a case of seeing if it can go somewhere else, but only if they're happy with that. And I would make my case as well.
- [12:50]
B
And then if someone, even someone that's not a client. But if. What advice would you give to someone that's intimidated by art or just starting or on a budget, but wants to start collecting, where would you advise them to go or how to begin?
- [13:07]
C
I think a really good place to start is when you go to an art exhibition at a big gallery. Like, for example, I know the one I'm dying to go to at the moment. There's a big Rothko exhibition at the Louis Vuitton Gallery in Paris, for example. If you were to go to an exhibition like that, and after an hour and a half of plodding around you felt moved and connected to that artwork and you thought, I want to live with these paintings or they really speak to me. I think a really affordable, great way to start kind of connecting yourself to art is to buy a framed print in the gallery at the end, in the, in the gift shop. You know, I did that so much when I first started out. And it helps you to kind of connect with these artists as well and build up a little bit of an education in your mind about where art has been and the history of art. And I've got Brancusi prints and Frank Auerbach prints and Chris Ofeli prints. You know, these exhibitions in and around London that I've been to over the last 15 years that just, I loved them, you know, I wanted to just go around again. That's good enough reason to just buy something and doesn't matter if it's not an original, but it's, it's firstly you've connected to it and you love it. So that's a good start.
- [14:42]
B
Yeah, that's incredible advice. I've even actually heard someone, another designer tell me that they've like done that and cut off the museum part when they frame it. So it's just a little cleaner. But I love that it's great.
- [14:56]
C
I would make sure you buy it framed from the museum shop though. That's always an option and I think, you know, just make life easy for yourself. They, they often sell these things already framed and then you're just good to go. Because I, I think again it's just, it's tedious and there are lots of steps when trying to make a house, a home and being, and getting into interior design and you might think that you could buy a frame somewhere else and then it doesn't fit and it doesn't work as well and I think it's just a good ready made solution.
- [15:29]
B
Yeah, definitely.
- [15:33]
A
We're going to take a quick break to thank the sponsor of today's Show, Schumacher. Since 1889, the fifth generation family business has been the go to source for texting styles, wallpapers and trims. Their insatiable passion for luxury, beauty and quality have produced designs that transcend time and rise above the ordinary. So head to Schumacher.com to check it out.
- [16:00]
B
I wanted to ask you about United Design, your charitable initiative that you launched in 2020. Can you tell us a little bit about it and how it's been going and just explain it a little bit?
- [16:12]
C
It's a big one to talk about and it's kind of complicated. Our response to a big, complicated problem, but I'll try and simplify it. We started this charity, Alex Dorley and I, over three years ago with the sole objective of improving diversity in our industry. We. We started the charity in the wake of the murder of George Floyd, and the idea was to provide a toolkit to businesses in the interior design industry who want to do better and improve the ethnic diversity in their businesses. It put the businesses at the front of change. So we ask, you know, founders basically of their companies who are agile and can make decisions quickly and action change tomorrow if they want to. And what we do is via subscription kind of mechanism. So you become a member of the charity and pay a small annual subscription and in return we will help you deliver on a few pledges, which range from supporting our school's outreach program, to taking on interns, to providing work experience to school children, to participating in our apprenticeship scheme or becoming a mentor, as well as Ed and I training. So it's really a toolkit that we have tried to set up in the most straightforward way possible for those who just want to do better.
- [17:45]
B
That's incredible. It's definitely very needed in the industry, as you know. And has it been a really positive response?
- [17:53]
C
It has been a really positive response. There's so much more to do, so many more businesses that we would like to sign up. There was real enthusiasm in the year that we started and things have kind of slowed down since then. So the task and the challenge is to keep people interested in the conversation, keep it front of mind and continue to get businesses to sign up year on year, as well as attract new studios and suppliers. But, yeah, I'm immensely proud and the apprenticeship scheme is sort of the jewel in our crown and it's been so successful. And to think that at the end of this year we'll have injected 15 apprentices into the industry is really remarkable and hopefully will be reflected in years to come when we start flicking through magazines and see who's got their own design studio, who the emerging new talent is. I think giving opportunities to the young people who've applied to be part of the program will pay dividends in years to come.
- [19:07]
B
It's like planting the seeds and you'll see the growth. Not for a while, but that's really incredible. Congratulations.
- [19:15]
C
Thank you. Well, it's really not just me. There's lots of people involved volunteering their time. We've got amazing trustees.
- [19:22]
B
And so tell me about your decision to create Sudhu Ashby's retail offshoot Sister, which opened its first Brick and mortar home at the Bluecoat School in St. James park in 2022. And were you at all scared to open a store when everyone is saying that retail is dead?
- [19:41]
C
Yeah, I felt at the time like I was the only mad woman in London wanting to open a shop. Everyone else was closing down around me, but it seemed like a good idea at the time and I think is slowly proving that it's working. I'm learning so much, and it's really exhilarating being part of another business, you know, and in its infancy and growing something. And I really enjoy the strategic planning and development of a company and all the things that go into making it success. So it's quite fun to be using that part of my brain. But, yeah, I mean, it's. It's a. It's a pretty obvious next move for an interior designer. So I don't feel I've reinvented the wheel at all. But it's a lot of fun and I really believe in its potential. So I'm excited about the next kind of five years and the growth and plans that we have for that.
- [20:41]
B
So exciting. And it seems like your approach to furniture is similar to your approach to art. It's singular pieces crafted by artists and artisans, and I love that all these pieces have such integrity. What speaks to you and what's your philosophy when it comes to the curation for Sister specifically?
- [21:01]
C
Yeah, I think when we first started, we. We were playing around with these words which still ring true today. This idea of Sister being a bit of a playground and a place to experiment and be creative and fun and joyful, not take ourselves too seriously, but really try to create what ultimately we hope is like a future heirloom. Something that stands the test of time, that's very well made, beautiful quality, something that has that timelessness that we look to create in our interiors for everybody else, basically.
- [21:39]
B
And for our last question, what's next for you in cdu, Ashby? It seems like you're launching something every year. Do you have anything fun on the horizon?
- [21:47]
C
You know, I just feel I've had two children in the last three years. And we've also created Sister and United in Design and launched a book. I think I've. I've bitten off quite a lot in the last. Call it five years. I think the next five years is about steady and careful kind of growth and thoughtfulness and taking it a bit more slowly. And the one area of the business we'd like to grow is our international projects in the US we really enjoy working in America and for American clients. We've got a project in New York at the moment and one in LA and finished one recently in San Francisco. And it's a very natural extension of what we're doing here and quite straightforward, we've now discovered. So that's probably the growth area. But I don't have aggressive charts and graphs showing me what we're trying to do with that. It's slow and organic, is the way.
- [22:53]
B
Amazing. Well, it really shows. Your work is so authentic and beautiful and timeless. Thank you so much. Sophie, thank you for joining us. That was incredible.
- [23:02]
C
My pleasure. Thanks so much for inviting me. Yeah, it's been really lovely. Thank you.
- [23:10]
A
Thanks for joining us today. Stay tuned for next week's episode of Deep Dive.