Deep Questions with Cal Newport
Episode 365: What Technology Wants (and How to Push Back)
Date: August 11, 2025
Host: Cal Newport
Main Theme: Understanding the evolution of technology from additive to extractive, why we get stuck on tools that aren’t serving us, and how to reclaim our attention and lives from exploitative digital products.
Episode Overview
Cal Newport examines the paradoxical relationship we have with modern technology, especially the shift from technologies that serve us (“additive”) to those that drain our time and attention for corporate gain (“extractive”). The episode weaves in personal anecdotes, listener questions, and expert commentary to uncover why we become entangled in technologies that make us unhappy and what practical steps we can take to regain agency.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. A Tale of Two Technologies: Additive vs. Extractive
[00:01 – 04:53]
- Additive Technology: Cal shares a Substack story of a family buying a landline for their child; the result is more focused, meaningful conversations with family—free of distraction and algorithmic manipulation.
“There’s no scrolling, no distractions, no comparisons, no dopamine hits to chase. Instead, he is just listening to stories, asking questions, and having the comfort of knowing someone who loves him is listening on the other end of the line.”
— [Cal quoting Priscilla Harvey, 02:30] - Extractive Technology: Contrasts this with modern smartphones and apps (e.g., Instagram), which offer fleeting joys but primarily aim to capture attention and monetize it.
“Unlike the straightforward benefits of something like an old fashioned landline, it becomes clear that a tool like Instagram… doesn’t have your best interest as its primary goal. It’s using you.”
— Cal Newport [03:55] - Cal frames extractive technologies as those that extract value from users, as opposed to additive tools that make valuable activities easier or richer.
2. How We Get Hooked: The Example of Facebook
[04:53 – 12:30]
- Nostalgia for Early Facebook: Cal and co-host Jesse reminisce about Facebook’s origins as a fun, additive tool for staying in touch—contrasting it to the disengagement users feel now.
“Who feels delight for Facebook…? No one is really super happy about Facebook anymore. So what happened here?”
— Cal Newport [05:40] - Shift in Mission: Highlights changes revealed by Mark Zuckerberg’s recent testimony:
“Facebook’s main purpose, quote, wasn’t really to connect with friends anymore, end quote. The friend part has gone down quite a bit, Zuckerberg said.”
— Quoting trial coverage [07:55] - Algorithmic Content: Only 20% of Facebook and 10% of Instagram content is now from friends—the rest is selected algorithmically.
- Sean Parker’s Admission: Recalls Facebook’s pivot:
“That thought process was all about how do we consume as much of your time and conscious attention as possible.”
— Recalling Sean Parker [10:10] - Enter ‘Inshinification’: Cites Cory Doctorow’s term for platforms that lure in users with utility, then become worse as they focus on extracting profit, explaining our entanglement.
3. How Companies Make Extractive Tech Stick
[12:30 – 20:30]
- Strategy 1: Slowness in Transition: The move from additive to extractive is gradual—users acclimate to incremental changes (like adding ‘likes’ or algorithmic content).
“They go slow. And then by the time you look up, you don’t realize what is happening.”
— Cal Newport [14:32] - Strategy 2: Reducing Competition:
- [16:23] Clip – Cory Doctorow: “Markets don't discipline tech companies because tech companies don't compete with their rivals. They buy their rivals.”
- [16:51] Clip – Cory Doctorow: “A sector that has been boiled down to a mere handful of firms… can agree on a common lobbying position… they are a slosh in cash, and they mobilize that cash to turn their regulatory priorities into regulations.”
- Example: Google’s worsening search experience is cited—not due to incompetence but because lack of competition removes incentive to improve.
“I just don't think they care because they're doing 10, 20 billion in profit every quarter.”
— Ed Zitron [18:44, referencing Google]
4. The Ongoing Risk: New Tech Follows the Same Path
[21:00 – 26:00]
- AI as the Next Extractive Frontier: OpenAI’s hiring of a Meta-trained CMO signals the looming arrival of more extractive business models (ads/data mining) in AI tools.
“AI is probably doing the exact same thing that the social media companies did 10 years ago. They just hired a CMO from Meta… That means they're looking towards that second phase.”
— Cal Newport [23:22] - Warns that many current “delightful” AI tools are likely to switch to extraction once user dependence builds.
5. How to Fight Back: Reclaiming Agency
[26:00 – 33:00]
Cal’s Three Key Strategies:
- 1. Regular Digital Declutters
- Take 30 days away from optional tech, experiment with valuable alternatives, allow only tools back that truly earn their place.
“A digital declutter is not a detox… The goal is to gain insight that you then use to make permanent changes to what technologies retain a role in your life.”
— Cal Newport [26:40] - 2. Prefer Paid, Transparent Products
- Bias towards tech with a clear financial cost (“if you don’t have a number to answer that question, it’s probably costing more over time than you want to spend”).
- Examples: Scrivener, Things 3 (once-off purchases)—less likely to shift into extractive practices.
- 3. Hacking & Filtering Tech Use
- Impose rules and use tech tools to get only the value you want (e.g., using browser plugins to strip YouTube recommendations, or indie alternatives like DuckDuckGo).
“You take technologies where there’s a value you need out of it, but they're also furiously trying to extract value from you. And you use rules and technological solutions to get your value, prevent them from getting theirs.”
— Cal Newport [29:40] - Key Takeaway: Roles of tools can shift. Regular, conscious evaluation is necessary—don't assume today's good tool will remain so as incentives change.
“Next time you despair about all the rabbit holes your smartphone has thrown you down, remember that kid on the couch having a great time with an old piece of plastic talking to his grandma.”
— Cal Newport [31:50]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Technology’s Shifting Nature:
“A lot of our modern digital consumer tools are like a rotary phone that hooks you on ketamine and then forces you to dial 1-900 numbers to get your next fix. Except I guess with like more emojis or something.”
— Cal Newport [13:36] -
On Competition in Big Tech:
“A sector that has been boiled down to a mere handful of firms can agree on a common lobbying position… and they mobilize that cash to turn their regulatory priorities into regulations.”
— Cory Doctorow [16:51] -
On Digital Declutter:
“A digital declutter is not a detox… The goal is to gain insight that you then use to make permanent changes to what technologies retain a role in your life.”
— Cal Newport [26:40] -
On Tech Longevity:
“There could be technologies you love today that tomorrow are going to be something that is a net negative in your life.”
— Cal Newport [25:44]
Segment Timestamps
- 00:01–04:53 — Additive vs. Extractive Technology, story of the landline
- 04:53–12:30 — Facebook’s shift: from connecting friends to extracting attention/data
- 12:30–20:30 — Strategies of slowness, competition reduction, and Doctorow’s analysis
- 21:00–26:00 — Extractive risk in emerging AI tools; OpenAI’s business shift
- 26:00–33:00 — Three practical strategies for reclaiming your digital life and agency
Listener Questions & Advice Highlights
- [34:55] Project Management Friction: Cal suggests research/scrum techniques (brief daily standups & focus on tasks over granular reporting) for tracking scientific projects efficiently.
- [39:11] Obsessions vs. Productivity: Indulge passions as long as they don’t get obsessive or disrupt other life areas—enjoy them with moderation.
- [43:00] Social Influence & Depth: Have some like-minded people in your life, but avoid homogeneity; diversity in relationships reduces loneliness and weirdness.
- [45:02] Purpose of Platforms: Cal breaks down his approach to podcasting (narrative depth), newsletter (short, technical), and YouTube (repackaged for a broader/younger audience, foreseeing a shift away from current video platforms’ extractive models).
“Video is important, and that’s where video goes these days. That might change. I think YouTube as it is is a great fit for what people want, it’s what their lizard brain wants.”
— Cal Newport [47:55]
Overall Tone and Style
Cal Newport’s tone is direct, analytical, and often wryly humorous, balancing rigorous critique of tech with practical optimism. He uses metaphors, personal stories, and outside experts to cohesively build his argument on technology’s evolving threat to deep, meaningful living—and arms listeners with actionable steps to challenge extractive digital design.
For Listeners Who Missed the Episode
This episode is an essential listen for anyone interested in the creeping costs of modern digital life and how apparently innocuous tools often become attention-trapping monsters. Cal lays out clear, actionable steps to push back—making this episode especially valuable for those questioning their daily tech use or seeking to design a more mindful, focused relationship with technology.