Ep. 216 (Part 2 of 2) | In Part 2 of Deep Transformation’s first episode in the What is Real Greatness Series, longtime spiritual teacher Jack Kornfield declares that in his experience real greatness is a greatness of heart. In Buddhism, greatness of heart is embodied in the ideal of the bodhisattva—one whose life is dedicated to the well-being of all. Embodying compassion is not a grim proposition, Jack explains, but a joy! The whole point of it being human happiness and inner freedom. Because of his deep understanding of compassion, Jack was invited to the Oslo Freedom Forum to counsel global activists on how to prevent burnout, and when talking to them about their outrage, he told them, “You do this because you care—that is not a loss of power, it’s actually the deep power. Tune into the care.” Greatness of heart is the great power.

Jack relates that the experience of awakening can be felt in different ways: it might feel like everything is love, perfection, emptiness, or freedom. For me, the channel is love and my practice is to love everyone, he explains. We have to love both the lion and the gazelle, he continues, and shares a poignant story of how very loving Ram Dass became towards the end of his life, loving everything, even his pain. When the conversation turns towards the potential demise of humanity, Jack wonders, will we be able to do something beneficial with our consciousness now that we’re aware that we are all connected? What is the spirit you want to lead with? he asks. What is the dance you want to do? A thoroughly thought provoking, nourishing, inspiring conversation. Recorded October 2, 2025.

“You think you’re separate – you think you exist. But you’re not who you think you are. You are consciousness in drag.”

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

You think you’re separate, but you’re not who you think you are (00:27)
The bodhisattva vow as aspiration, never off-duty (04:23)
What real greatness is changes with each turning of Buddhism (08:26)
The experience of awakening can be felt in different ways: love, perfection, emptiness, or freedom (12:19)
Jack’s channel & inspiration is love; and a story of how very loving Ram Dass became (19:00)
Teaching activists to remember to hold themselves in their own circle of compassion at the Oslo Freedom Forum (23:52)
Jack’s upcoming workshop: Inner Technology for Outer Technologists (29:18)
How do you embody the bodhisattva? Spiritual practice isn’t a grim duty—it’s actually joyful (31:08)
As Andre Gidé said, joy is our moral obligation (32:49)
What stands out to Jack about all the amazing people he’s encountered? (34:09)
When there’s a greatness of heart…that is the great power (35:04)
The hospice now is for humanity, not for Earth, which knows how to take care of itself (37:42)
What is the spirit you want to lead with? What is the dance you want to do? (40:18)
The end questions: Did I love well? Did I live fully? Did I learn to let go? (41:13)
Your purpose here is to deliver your cargo, your gifts (41:47)

Resources & References – Part 2

Jack Kornfield, founding teacher of Spirit Rock Meditation Center and the Insight Meditation Society, author of A Path with Heart and many more
Stanislav Grof, LSD: Doorway to the Numinous
Ram Dass & Rameshwar Das, Be Love Now: The Path of the Heart
The Oslo Freedom Forum, bringing together the world’s most engaging human rights advocates, journalists, artists, tech entrepreneurs & world leaders to brainstorm ways to unleash human potential around the globe
The Dalai Lama & Desmond Tutu, The Book of Joy: Lasting Happiness in a Changing World
Nobel prize winner André Gide
Malidoma Patrice Somé, shaman, writer & workshop leader, primarily in the field of spirituality
Zen Master Seungsahn, The Compass of Zen

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Jack Kornfield trained as a Buddhist monk in Thailand, India, and Burma. He holds a Ph.D. in clinical psychology and is a founding teacher of the Insight Meditation Society in Massachusetts and Spirit Rock Meditation Center in California. He is one of the key teachers to introduce mindfulness practice to the West, has taught internationally since 1974, and is the author of 17 books which have sold 2 million copies.

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Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell