Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: Be Salt and Light – Matthew S2E2
Date: February 16, 2026
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Guest: Pastor Michael Olson

Episode Overview

This episode explores Jesus’ teaching on being the “salt of the earth” and “light of the world” (Matthew 5), diving into how Christian identity shapes our purpose, activity, and mission. Pastor Joby Martin and Pastor Michael Olson engage in a practical, honest, and sometimes humorous discussion on what it means to live out the calling of a disciple, the challenge of authentic self-evaluation, the role of motives, and the daily, relational aspects of following Jesus. Themes of grace, legacy, and the transforming love of the Father permeate the conversation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Meaning of Salt and Light (02:19–05:58)

• Jesus’ Three Metaphors: Salt, Light, and City

  • All are about identity first: "You are the salt of the earth… You are the light of the world... a city on a hill" (02:19–02:30).
  • The Beatitudes and salt/light teaching are a single continuous message; don’t separate them (02:19–03:30).
  • The saltiest (most impactful) moments come “when your circumstances are hell and people are like, how are you upright?” (02:40–02:56)

• Application of the Gospel

  • The Beatitudes are the gospel, and the salt/light command is applying the gospel: “He didn’t just save you for you to be saved, he saved you so that you could be sent so that others might be saved.” (03:31–04:07)
  • Missions is a natural by-product of gospel identity—abnormal not to bear fruit.

• No Such Thing As a Fruitless Christian

  • "The Bible doesn't have a category for a fruitless Christian. It's like, what is that?" (05:08)
  • Being a nominal Christian with no mission is “a complete abnormality” (05:35–05:58)

  Notable Quote:

  “You’re the saltiest...when your circumstances are hell and people are like, how are you upright?...You have the biggest impact.”
  — Pastor Joby Martin, (02:32)

Christian Identity vs. Activity (05:58–08:38)

• Disciple vs. Christian Label

  • “The Bible only calls us Christians...three times. And one’s derogatory...But 168 times the Bible uses the phrase ‘in Christ.’” (06:08)
  • Anyone can use the label ‘Christian,’ so the real question: “Are you in Christ? Are you a disciple?” (06:30–07:25)

• Self-Evaluation and Fruitfulness

  • Self-evaluation is tough—most people struggle to see their own fruit.
  • Three “baskets” that cover the light: Pride, Fear, Comfort (08:01)
  • The impact seen in others’ lives is a better gauge than self-examination alone.

  Notable Quote:

  “It’s like other people or the impact you’re having are a better measure of your saltiness and your light than your own personal, like, navel-gazing evaluation.”
  — Guest/Contributor, (09:07)

The Role of Self-Examination and Community (08:46–16:27)

• Limits of Self-Judgment

  • “Can we actually judge ourselves? No. I feel like the worst.” (09:05)
  • Heavy conviction at home—hardest to be salt/light with family, despite vocational ministry success (09:23–11:39)
  • Discipleship is more about forward, Spirit-led motion than looking backward (11:39)

• Healthy Reflection vs. Obsessive Introspection

  • Biblical self-discovery aims to root out the “seeds of weeds” choking the fruit of the Spirit, not for blaming/excusing (13:23)
  • “You can’t stay there any longer than Jesus did in the grave… because we’re resurrection people.” (15:10)

• Community Encouragement

  • Importance of others reflecting God’s work in you—helps avoid discouragement or blindness (16:01)

Living as Salt and Light in the Everyday (16:27–24:05)

• From Study to Mission

  • Many believers never “come out of the salt shaker”—they accumulate knowledge but don’t apply it (16:27)
  • “The play is go and make disciples.” (17:18)

• The Original Audience’s Weighty Calling

  • Jesus told a tiny crowd they were “the light of the world”—this handful’s faithfulness is why the church endures today (17:31–18:28)
  • Jesus never waited for “critical mass”—he assigns the mission to whoever is present (18:28–19:29)

• Obedience and God’s Responsibility

  • “My responsibility is to do what he said to do, and he’s responsible for all the outcome.” (19:29)
  • Over-planning can paralyze—help one person now rather than wait for a massive ministry (20:05–22:05)

• Practical Living:

  • Salt only works when it leaves the saltshaker.
  • Christians should be obviously different in all professions and roles (23:01–24:05)

Motives: Letting Your Light Shine for God’s Glory (24:05–31:41)

• Motive is Everything

  • Difference between authentic witness (“so God gets the glory”) and religious activity for self-promotion (“so people see me”)
  • “If your motivation is self glory, you were actually at odds with God.” (24:23)

• Wrestling with Motives

  • Most people are somewhat blind to their motives, but those who never question them are most at risk (27:24–28:46)
  • Over-questioning can paralyze—there’s a sweet spot between purity and action (29:21–31:16)

• The “Basket” Over the Light

  • Excessive self-doubt or fear of self-promotion can become its own obstacle to letting your light shine (31:16–31:30)

  Notable Quote:

  "The pursuit of purity paralyzes you from actually doing what the King told you to do."
  — Pastor Joby Martin, (31:26)

Grace, Restoration, and Identity (31:41–35:00)

• Peter’s Restoration as a Model

  • If Peter “doesn’t get reinstated in John 21, I don’t think he does any of the things he does.” Jesus’ “do you love me?” questions restore, not scold, fueling Peter’s boldness (33:31–35:00)

  Notable Quote:

  “I know you’ve screwed up, but bro, you’re still salty and you’re not useless to me... The only way you’re going to be useless is if you don’t feed my sheep, feed my lambs, take care of my lambs. If you don’t do the thing that I assigned you to do, yeah, then you’re a train wreck. But I’m not done with you.”
  — Pastor Joby Martin, (33:31)

• Identity Spoken Into Us

  • “It’s like salt and light. If you don’t act this way, you’re not actually living out the identity of who you actually are, of who I’ve created you to be.” (35:00)

Law, Grace, and Motivation (37:03–50:16)

• Law as Map and Mirror

  • “If you see the law of God as a ball and chain, you’re not looking at it right.” (37:03)
  • Jesus fulfilled the law’s requirements for us—embrace grace and pursue God’s ways out of love, not legal obligation.

• Distinguishing Old and New Covenant

  • Every law cited in the New Testament is expected of Christians; Old Testament ritual laws fulfilled by Christ (47:08)
  • Legalism: elevating personal convictions to universal requirements (49:06)

• Healthy Christian “Aestheticism”

  • Holiness is not measured by how hard or joyless something is. The “holier = harder” mindset isn’t biblical (50:16)

  Notable Quote:

  “For a long time now...evangelical Christianity more or less has considered holy—the holiest thing to do is the hardest thing to do. And...that is a very dangerous way to think.”
  — Guest/Contributor, (50:16)

The Father’s Love, Performance, and Approval (51:58–60:59)

• Receiving the Father’s Love

  • Many struggle to feel God’s approval because of upbringing or church culture focused on “sin management” instead of grace (53:04–54:22)
  • The way earthly fathers treat children shapes how we perceive God (53:08)
  • “You stand by my side and you stood in my place worthy of your name—whatever it is about that line ruins me, man.” (54:22)

• The Gospel Restated

  • “When I get into, like, am I doing good enough? I get back to, well, you did. You took my place.” (54:43)
  • “And the answer is no, you’re not doing good enough. And [Jesus] took my place because he loves me.” (54:55)

• Living in the Approval of the Father

  • Experiencing and living from God’s “dad love” is transformational—whether earthly relationships were healthy or broken (57:23–58:14)
  • Joy and delight in children is a picture of God’s joy in us (59:59–60:59)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “You’re the saltiest...when your circumstances are hell and people are like, how are you upright?...You have the biggest impact.”
  — Pastor Joby Martin, (02:32)

• “The Bible doesn’t have a category for a fruitless Christian. It’s like, what is that?” (05:08)

• “It’s like other people or the impact you’re having are a better measure of your saltiness and your light than your own personal, like, navel-gazing evaluation.”
  — Guest/Contributor, (09:07)

• “The pursuit of purity paralyzes you from actually doing what the King told you to do.”
  — Pastor Joby Martin, (31:26)

• “My responsibility is to do what he said to do, and he’s responsible for all the outcome.”
  — Guest/Contributor, (19:29)

• “If Peter doesn’t get reinstated in John 21, I don’t think he does any of the things he does. … Jesus’ question three times is, Do you love me?...I just want you to know that I know you do. So be salty.”
  — Pastor Joby Martin, (33:31–35:00)

Important Timestamps

• 02:19: Differences and overlap between salt, light, and city metaphors
• 08:01: The “three baskets” (pride, fear, comfort) that hinder our witness
• 17:18: Being salt and light means getting out of comfort and onto the field
• 24:05: Letting your light shine for God’s glory, not personal applause
• 31:26: How the pursuit of purity can paradoxically hinder obedience
• 33:31–35:00: Restoration of Peter and the importance of identity/mission
• 37:03: Law as map and mirror; how Christ fulfills the requirements
• 50:16: Legalism and the dangers of equating holiness with unnecessary difficulty/asceticism
• 53:04–54:22: Our perception of God shaped by earthly parents/church
• 60:59: “If we could get our mind around the Father celebrating us like that, we’d be salt and light in the city way better.”

Tone and Style

• Warm, honest, and practical—often humorous, occasionally deeply vulnerable
• Direct references to lived experience (e.g., parenting, ministry, self-doubt)
• Frequent use of everyday metaphors (sports, cooking, music)
• Equal parts theological depth and accessible illustration

Final Reflection

This episode offers a heartfelt, in-depth look at Jesus’ call to be salt and light—emphasizing identity, authentic mission, and relationship with God over performance. The candid conversation between pastors serves as a permission slip to step into our God-given role, wrestle with motives, and above all, operate from the secure love of the Father—a message as challenging as it is freeing for listeners seeking to deepen their relationship with Jesus.

Resource Mentions:

• Pastor Michael Olson’s book: “Daddy Set the Church on Fire”
  (Available at daddysetthechurchonfire.com and michaelcharlesolson.com)
• The Church of Eleven22: coe22.com