Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin — S18E8: Church Family (February 24, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Pastor Joby Martin and Pastor Britt, joined by the host, explore the theme of "Church as Family". They unpack how intergenerational relationships and intentional discipleship within the church foster a healthy spiritual environment. The conversation also delves into biblical benevolence, the responsibilities of family care, and finding balance between encouragement and rebuke—anchoring all discussion in the New Testament context and practical church leadership experience.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Value of Intergenerational Relationships in the Church

(00:18 – 04:17)

• Intentionality Across Generations
  • Pastor Britt stresses the necessity of creating church environments that mix at least three generations, sharing a "wealth of wisdom and experience."
    • "There's just an exchange of wisdom... I guess the two things that I see constantly going back and forth are wisdom going one direction and energy going the other. And there's a dignity in that, in that exchange." (Pastor Britt, 01:53)
  • Pastor Joby adds that this approach brings empathy and understanding, countering stereotypes:
    • "If all you know about a generation 30 years younger than you is what you hear about on Fox News, you're not going to have a realistic view of these brothers and sisters in the faith or sons and daughters in the faith that you go to church with." (Pastor Joby, 03:28)

2. Kids Ministry vs. Family Worship: Finding the Balance

(04:17 – 09:49)

• Parental Responsibility & Age-Appropriate Ministry
  • Pastor Joby advocates for parents remaining the primary disciplers of their children, emphasizing the importance of both age-graded instruction and multigenerational experiences.
    • "Don't primarily depend on the church to be the primary discipler of your kids." (Pastor Joby, 05:14)
    • Family worship is encouraged, but some Bible content is not suitable for all ages, so age-appropriate ministry is biblically and historically sound.
• Individual Approaches for Each Child
  • Avoid extremist stances—like "everything together, always" vs. total segregation—and give parents latitude to decide what works best for their families.
    • "You have to parent that child. Not parent the philosophy." (Pastor Britt, 08:18)

3. Key Marker of Spiritual Retention: Serving

(08:57 – 11:12)

• Serving as the Clearest Predictor
  • According to Joby, serving in high school is the top indicator for continued church involvement in adulthood:
    • "The number one indicator is if you can get them serving... the likelihood of them plugging into a church in college... is exponentially higher." (Pastor Joby, 08:57)

4. The Power of Ownership and Participation

(09:49 – 12:44)

• Student Engagement through Service
  • Personal example of a student running lyrics in service, shifting from observer to owner—"I got to" vs. "I have to."
    • "The difference is he now feels like an owner in stewarding an experience." (Pastor Britt, 10:53)
• Welcoming Culture of the Church
  • Approval and belonging offered before performance—unlike in school or sports.

5. Historical Perspective: Building a Multigenerational Church

(12:44 – 16:41)

• Deliberate Inclusion of Older Generations
  • From the outset, Pastor Joby sought to blend age groups, inviting grandparents to serve as ushers and greeters.
    • "One of the greatest desires of like college age students was grandparents... So we did that intentionally from the beginning." (Pastor Joby, 14:01)
  • Seniors are not retired from the gospel; many spearhead service efforts like nursing home ministries.

6. Biblical Guidance: Rebuke and Honor in the Family of God

(16:46 – 29:29)

• Balancing Correction with Respect
  • Instructions from 1 Timothy on relating to older men—rebuke with honor, not harshness.
    • "You're going to do it with honor and respect. You're not just going to tell them all the ways they're wrong." (Pastor Joby, 17:35)
• "Chronological Snobbery" and Generational Tension
  • C.S. Lewis’s term for younger generations looking down on older ones.
    • "You only live in the world they all built. And you want to complain about it, but you don't complain about the air conditioning, the ice cream, or the freedom." (Pastor Joby, 18:46)
• Reserved Responsibility of Rebuke
  • Not everyone gets to correct everyone; encouragement is universal, but meaningful correction should be handled by those with a legitimate role or relationship.
    • "Rebuking others is a reserved responsibility. Not everybody gets to rebuke everybody. But encouraging is a command that we all share." (Pastor Britt, 28:17)

7. The Dangers of Uninformed Opinions and the Power of Focus

(29:29 – 35:12)

• Discernment About What Matters Most
  • Pastors stress focusing on one’s actual responsibilities, not weighing in on every controversy.
    • "The further you are from the situation, the simpler the solution seems." (Andy Stanley quote via Pastor Jovi, 30:15)
• Letting Go of Control
  • Healthy boundaries: allow others their opinions but take responsibility only for what God’s entrusted to you.

8. Benevolence in the Early Church and Today

(37:11 – 57:23)

• Biblical Principles for Care in Community
  • Not everyone gets the same support; discernment is key.
    • "Are they godly women with good reputations and they lost their husband and they're over 60...now they're going to be married to the church." (Pastor Jovi, 46:08)
• Restoring Dignity, Not Just Alleviating Discomfort
  • True help isn’t just removing discomfort, but helping people regain dignity and agency.
    • "The question is, how do I partner with the Holy Spirit of God to restore and repair dignity. Yeah, these are totally different things." (Pastor Britt, 45:46)
• Wise Stewardship: Partnering with Experts
  • The church works with specialized ministries for issues like homelessness, pro-life support, etc., to ensure effectiveness.
    • "What do I know about alleviating homelessness? I don't know anything. But we partner with organizations in town that are experts on this." (Pastor Jovi, 50:45)

9. The Church's Primary Mission

(57:23 – 62:00)

• Discipleship, Worship, and Outflow of Care
  • The core role is making disciples and glorifying God; good works follow as fruit, not as mere philanthropy.
    • "The primary role of the church is not to get money together to give away to people... it’s to the glory of God... make disciples to the ends of the earth." (Pastor Jovi, 61:13)
  • Caution against criticisms that prioritize good works at the expense of worship and disciple-making (Judas as cautionary example).

10. Caring for Family in Later Life

(62:03 – 66:23)

• Balancing Responsibility and Realism
  • Encouragement to pre-plan for aging parents and family, balancing love, practical help, and humility when specialized care is needed.
    • "You owe it to your parents to take care of them, whatever that means... at some point if you can move your mom and dad in, which I’m pro." (Pastor Jovi, 62:21)
    • Acknowledge each family’s uniqueness and pursue wise, proactive planning instead of crisis decision-making.

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Exchange of Wisdom and Energy
  • "There's a dignity in that exchange." (Pastor Britt, 01:55)
• On Serve vs. Attend:
  • "If you want your kid to stick, don't bring him to big church. Have them serve." (Pastor Jovi, 08:57)
• On Rebuke vs. Encouragement:
  • "Rebuking others is a reserved responsibility. But encouraging is a command that we all share." (Pastor Britt, 28:17)
• On Criticism and Church Mission:
  • "Be very careful. That game has been played before. Woman with an alabaster jar... there was a guy that said, you know how many poor people you could have helped with that? And what was actually going on there is he was critical of the worship of Jesus and he was actually filled with the devil of hell..." (Pastor Jovi, 61:13)
• On Letting Go of Control:
  • "You can't make me feel anything... In a good, healthy relationship. It's not, you make me mad. It's like, I need your help because I...it's either ego or insecurity..." (Pastor Jovi, 33:51)
• On Strategic Benevolence:
  • "It was the first century version of what you're talking about." (Pastor Jovi, 47:41)

Important Timestamps

• 00:18 — Intergenerational relationships explained
• 04:17 — Balancing kids' ministry and family worship
• 08:57 — Serving and church retention for youth
• 16:46 — Biblical view on rebuke, honor, and generations
• 29:29 — Opinions, responsibility, and societal dynamics
• 37:11 — Principles of benevolence and systems in the early church
• 62:03 — Caring for aging family (practical advice and planning)
• 67:00 — The church’s true mission and why expository preaching matters

Conclusion

The episode underscores that the church, modeled as a family, flourishes when generations are woven together in meaningful ways. Discipleship and honor, more than mere routine or charity, are the foundation of Christian community. Wise stewardship, clear roles in encouragement and rebuke, and proactive family care are all key components. The mission remains unambiguous: worship God, make disciples, and care for one another as an outflow of the gospel—never losing sight of eternal priorities.

For deeper engagement:

• Listen for moments marked by empathy, practical wisdom, and candid, gospel-centered leadership, especially as the pastors reflect on both personal experiences and New Testament principles.
• See the recommended resources: When Helping Hurts for those interested in effective Christian benevolence, and consider visiting coe22.com for further community involvement or support.