Podcast Summary: Do You Really Know Jesus?

Podcast: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Episode: Matthew S2E6
Date: March 16, 2026
Main Theme: Living with authentic faith, the assurance of salvation, and discerning the difference between genuine relationship with Jesus and cultural Christianity, as reflected through the final teachings of Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount.

Episode Overview

This episode delves into the heavy burdens of pastoral ministry—especially the responsibility of helping people discern whether they truly know Jesus or have simply adopted the trappings of Christian culture. Pastor Joby Martin, Brett, and a guest pastor reflect on Jesus’ warnings at the close of the Sermon on the Mount, emphasizing the profound need to build one’s life on the rock of Christ rather than on superficial religious activity, cultural association, or self-improvement. They unpack common confusions regarding salvation, works, assurance, false prophets, and discuss living with authentic faith both now and into eternity.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Burden of True Assurance (00:17–06:30)

• Burden of Ministry:
  Joby Martin expresses the weight he feels as a pastor, knowing that many people attend church, serve, and appear religious but might not actually know Jesus:

  “Jesus is talking to people that think they're going to heaven and they're not … imagine if you were at the twin Towers on September 10th. What would you do, knowing what you know? And Jesus knows all things. He sees the end from the beginning.”—Joby Martin (00:25)

• Gospel vs. Religious Culture in the South:
  Deep cultural Christianity in the Southeast means many conflate church participation with faith.

  “People—‘I’m a Christian, just like I like NASCAR or whatever.’ But if you really peel back the layers … do you love Christ?”—Guest Pastor (01:40)

• The Difference Between Knowing About Jesus and Knowing Him:
  There’s a recurring theme of moving beyond "checking boxes" to a love and treasuring of Christ:

  “I would hate for them to read it and not know the author of the book.”—Joby Martin (03:16)

2. Assurance, Doubt, and Works-Based Thinking (04:01–08:50)

• Personal Stories of Doubt:
  Guest pastors share their own journeys of doubt and excessive altar calls, illustrating how common it is for people to wrestle with assurance due to workspace or performance-based theology.

  “I spent so many years with so much doubt. There was so much guilt and there was so much workspace theology.”—Guest Pastor (04:14)

• Critique of Manipulative Preaching:
  Doubt can be unnecessarily heightened by insecure or manipulative preaching:

  “It's insecure preaching, bro. If you want to kill it at a youth camp, just preach wheat and tares every time.”—Joby Martin (08:02)

• Satanic Accusation vs. Gospel Foundation:
  Satan uses ongoing doubts to keep believers from assurance; the solution is not to trust feelings but to root one’s assurance in the finished work of Christ:

  “You’ve got to build your eternal life on the good news of the rock of the gospel. Not just don’t build it on sex and money and status ... you also don’t build it on how you feel about God right now.”—Joby Martin (09:37)

3. Cheap Grace and False Assurance (09:51–11:52)

• The Danger of “Cheap Grace”:
  Claiming Christ’s name without surrendering to his lordship is not the faith that saves:

  “If you're just like, forget you. I do what I want and I'm going to believe in you and go to heaven, then you don't believe in him … so do the demons.”—Joby Martin (10:28)

• Faithfulness Over Fruitfulness:
  God looks for faithfulness, not just external fruitfulness; reward comes from obedience, not results alone (Parable of the Talents):

  “The two talent guy and the five talent guy get the same reward. And the reward is enter into the joy of your master.”—Joby Martin (11:45)

4. Discernment: Fruits, False Prophets, and the Narrow/Wide Way (12:03–21:00)

• Assessing Others by Their Fruits:
  Caution is given in judging ministers—give it time, watch character and gospel centrality:

  “Just because somebody starts a ministry or has a big platform … even if the guy seems to be doing the miraculous … the dragon is going to give powers to do miracles.”—Joby Martin (12:12–13:19)

• Characteristics of False Prophets:
  False teachers habitually tempt people to prioritize feelings (pop psychology, self-help), create enemies to be the hero, are greeded or judgmental—and typically invert the Sermon on the Mount:

  “You're blowing my mind right now.” —Brett (17:18)

• The Importance of Testing by Scripture:
  “Be Bereans”—test all teaching against the Word.

  “False prophets are often very eloquent and very gifted talkers, or nobody would listen to them. But you got to check what they say against the word.”—Joby Martin (13:52)

5. True and False Ministry Leaders; Exposing Wolves (21:00–28:00)

• False Prophet vs. Disqualified Elder:
  There is a distinction—a leader’s sin may disqualify them from ministry but doesn’t necessarily make them a false prophet. A false prophet preaches a false gospel:

  “A false prophet and a disqualified elder is not the same thing ... That does not disqualify the very true things he said about God and the Bible.” —Joby Martin (21:28)

• Calling Out Wolves:
  Pastors are warned: a shepherd must both care for sheep and oppose wolves.

  “If a shepherd won't kill wolves, you're not a shepherd. If all you want to do is chase after the one and lead to still waters and green pastures but you don't fight against wolves attacking your flock, you're a hireling because you run.”—Joby Martin (25:27)

6. “Lord, Lord” and Self-Deceived Religious People (28:00–36:30)

• How Can People Do Miracles Without Knowing Christ?:
  Miraculous acts aren’t proof of salvation—supernatural power or even deception is possible without a saving relationship.

  “How did the magicians working against Moses turn sticks into snakes? There's not only one power out there.”—Joby Martin (27:17)

• Self-Deception and Lawlessness:
  Many believe their religious activity earns merit, but the root issue is lawlessness (good deeds apart from Christ):

  “You workers of lawlessness. … So you can do a good thing without Jesus. And it's Christless.”—Joby Martin (34:05)

• Evidence of True Salvation:
  Those who truly love Christ will not “chest beat their performance” before God.

  “If you love Christ, you’re not going to stand in front of him and chest beat about your performance. … You’re just gonna love him. It's like, ‘Why should I let you in?’ It’s like, ‘It’s so good to see you.’”—Guest Pastor (34:51)

7. The Testimony and Hope of Salvation (36:30–43:06)

• The Community of Saints and Heavenly Rewards:
  Discussion of meeting biblical figures in heaven and the ongoing sharing of testimonies around God’s throne.

  “I mean, amazing. … You're going to cheer for him.”—Joby Martin and Guest Pastor (39:13–40:17)

• Encouragement for Young Leaders:
  Patience in obscurity, faithfulness in the “desert time” (Joseph, Moses, Paul).

  “I love Joseph's life. … He was 80 when he got rolling, boy.” —Various (41:03–41:31)

8. The Parable of House on The Rock (43:52–50:15)

• From Knowledge to Application:
  Not enough to “amen” sermons or decorate your life with Jesus as a guest—Jesus must be the foundation, not the decoration:

  “You could have inspiration, … but if you don’t have application, it doesn’t matter.”—Joby Martin (43:52)

• Digging to the Rock:
  To “dig through the sand” means to reject self- or culture-based foundations, surrender wholesale to Christ, and let him rule every part of life.

  “He [Jesus] wants to uproot your entire life and give you a new life, which is him.”—Joby Martin (45:02–46:54)

• Living by Immovable Gospel Truth:

  “Sand comes and goes… Rocks don't move. Are you the immovable object of the gospel of Jesus Christ?”—Guest Pastor (47:33)

9. Distinguishing True Gospel Ministry (50:15–54:00)

• Pitfalls of Idolatry:
  Even good things (family, church, work) become idolatrous foundations if they replace Christ as the central “rock.”

  “If you worship at the foot of [fitness], it will let you down...” —Joby Martin (50:15–52:01)

• Motives and Order Matter:
  True faith is not about actions alone, but about worship, motive, and proper order—Christ first, then works flow as a result.

10. The Astonishing Authority of Jesus (52:26–59:53)

• Jesus’ Unique Authority:
  Jesus wasn’t repeating others—he spoke as the new Moses, the very author of Scripture, with inherent authority.

  “He is not repeating what other people have said. He is telling us what the new covenant is.”—Joby Martin (52:26)

• Encountering Jesus in the Text:
  Even those unfamiliar with Jesus recognize that his words have supernatural weight.

  “If you read it ... you go, not a normal human said this. ... On the most carnal human levels, it reveals there is a deeper magic at work within this man.”—Guest Pastor (53:55)

• No New Revelations, Only Illumination:

  “The false prophet is the guy that has some sort of special revelation that is not in alignment with the word of God. There’s no new revelation. There’s illumination of what God has said.” —Joby Martin (59:46)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I would rather people read [the Bible] than not read it, but I would hate for them to read it and not know the author of the book.”

  • Joby Martin (03:16)

• “If you want to kill it at a youth camp, just preach wheat and tares every time.”

  • Joby Martin (08:02)

• “You got to believe your beliefs more than you believe your doubts.”

  • Joby Martin (09:37)

• “If you ever protect a shepherd at the expense of a sheep, you’re a hireling, you’re not a shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.”

  • Joby Martin (32:02)

• “If you love Christ, you’re not going to stand in front of him and chest beat about your performance. You’re just going to love him.”

  • Guest Pastor (34:51)

• “If you build your life on things that come and go, … then when the wind blows, you’re going to get tossed around. Storms don’t move rocks.”

  • Guest Pastor (47:52)

• “You could have had new information but if you don’t have application, it doesn’t matter.”

  • Joby Martin (43:52)

Important Timestamps

• The Pastoral Burden & Opening Theme – 00:17-03:09
• Cultural Christianity vs. True Faith – 01:40-02:16
• Assurance, Doubt, Manipulative Preaching – 04:01-08:50
• Cheap Grace, Lordship, and Real Faith – 09:51-11:52
• Fruit, Discernment, and False Teaching – 12:03-21:00
• False Prophets vs Disqualified Elders – 21:14-26:56
• Miracles, Self-Deception, Lawlessness – 27:17-36:30
• Heaven, Testimony, and the Saints – 36:30-43:06
• The House on the Rock Parable – 43:52-50:15
• Proper Foundation and Idolatry – 50:15-52:01
• The Authority of Jesus – 52:26-59:53
• Closing Gospel Plea and Prayer – 60:28-61:42

Final Thoughts and Takeaway

• Assurance of salvation is not rooted in our feelings, religious activity, or even “fruit” alone, but in the finished work and lordship of Jesus Christ.
• Christian culture, performance, and even exposure to godly things can’t replace a real, surrendered relationship.
• Discern false teaching by comparing all messages—even those in the church—with the content and character of Jesus and Scripture.
• Jesus’ authority is astonishing because his teaching is not borrowed or speculative; it is the direct expression of God himself.
• Action steps for listeners: Reflect honestly on the foundation of your life, surrender to Christ fully—not as a guest, but as Lord—and build on the rock, not the sand.

Closing Prayer:

“Father in heaven, may we build our lives on the solid rock of the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ. Amen.” —Joby Martin (61:42)