← Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin.
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The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen.
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A
A relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him.
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C
Now let's dive in.
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D
Well, saturated is happening, and I thought maybe we would. The roof would not get torn off from the outside, but from the inside tonight.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Crazy.
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A
Yeah.
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C
Who says big churches don't sing?
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A
It's cranky.
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D
Okay, so this is true. I'm sitting there and I'm like, man, oh, something. Something's wrong. Something's wrong. So I text one of our production guys. I'm like, dude, why does the PA sound quiet? He's a. It's normal. Everyone's singing louder than the pa. Wow.
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C
Yeah.
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B
Let's give the drummer some love for tonight. If you were here at San Pablo, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I was worshiping right along with that dude going nuts.
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A
He had, like, a little bit of a shimmer thing going on. That was incredible.
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D
His name. His name is Johnny Nail.
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B
So of course his name is.
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D
He nailed it.
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B
Of course his name is. When I talked to him afterwards, he said he does, like, he grew up in, like, the. He said, like, Mexican Pentecostal. And I was like, I didn't know that produced that. Like, that. Can we get some more of those?
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C
That's kind of Pentecostal.
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A
Yeah.
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C
A lot of spice.
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D
Thank you, Pastor John.
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A
Thanks, mate.
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D
You know, I was thinking as you were preaching that the idea of the hand of God being on a place or a person or a movement, that that is. I mean, before you preached, I was like, that's kind of a nebulous idea. And what I loved was that you pointed out from this text, like, here's some things you could look at and say, that's some signs, some evidences, some key indicators. And don't you think. Pastor Joby, you said recently, don't you think that the hand of God. Well, the hand of God's on this place, but. But God's doing something in his church, and we're seeing things. We're seeing these things and more here and. And other places, but.
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A
Wow.
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C
Yeah. The places that are preaching the gospel, lifting up Jesus, have a high view of scripture, aren't that. Don't take themselves too seriously, that will confess and repent. These are a bunch of our buddies. I mean, we all know. All of us kind of know each other. And you see the spirit of God pouring himself out in a way that we haven't seen in decades.
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D
Yeah.
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C
I mean, like, this isn't the only measurement, but tonight we can't get people to leave. I mean, how many songs we sing, you know what I'm saying? Because. Because who wants to leave the presence of the king?
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A
Right.
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C
I mean, that's what it is, you know? Yeah. There's something going on, and I just. I just want to be a part of it.
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D
That's right.
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C
And. And I also just want to say we're standing on the shoulders of faithful men and women who've been begging God to move like this in this region of the world, in this country for years and years and years and years. And God does not owe us a thing, man. He does not owe us. And yet he is faithful to show up and move in those who would be postured and surrendered for him to do so.
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D
Kyle, which of the five things stood out to you as, you know, like, particularly, like, powerful.
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B
Yeah. So even to dovetail off of that a little bit. So John and I were outsiders for church 1122, but we're admirers from afar.
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C
Right.
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B
And, like, I'll get messages from people that roll through here.
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A
Come.
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They listen to the show or something like that. So they roll through Jacksonville and go. And they're like, dude, what was that? And I'm like, I know exactly what you're saying. Like, you didn't make any sense with what you just tried to tell me. But I get it. I get. Exactly. Because you try to put it into words, and it's hard to do. But the fifth thing you said was a new cultural identity. Because part of the thing with Christians being called Christians for the first time in Antioch is. That was a derisive term. Right. Oh, those followers of the way. Those. Those Christians, those whatever. And we live in a country that is more post Christian than it is Christian now in a lot of ways. But I think tonight you.
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You.
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You gave John. You gave people permission. Like, the biggest takeaway was tell people you love Jesus and then show up every day. Because what is. What does show up? Right. Like, show up is show up in your relationships. You know, companies should want to hire Christians outright because they should be the hardest workers. Because if you're working as under the Lord, you were talking about being a butcher, and you're like, lord, if no one else sees the cuts I'm making on this animal today, you see them and the people that church work that way, whether you got a shovel in your hand or, you know, a quill pen like that, that is what changes A city when everyone's on mission. And I feel like, you know, in your description, you're giving people permission to live that way.
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A
Yeah, I, you know, I went through a pretty intense season. It was very, very hard because I started as a non Christian, had a whole set of behaviors, became a Christian and had to change. But I've. If you can make your work, your worship, and you know that's from the same Hebrew word, root word as work and worship. And if you can get men showing up, you get women showing up and they're saying, lord, I don't need to be at church. I'm offering my whole life to you. It's not just the singing, which I love is mind boggling tonight, but my whole life is an act of worship. You're deploying. I don't know how many folks are here. 20,000 people to deploy. 20,000 people on mission, day in, day out into the city is how the city will change. And if people view themselves as sent. If people view themselves on mission like that there. There's nothing that can stop that. I mean, it's kind of wild.
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C
It's so interesting. You talked about destiny releasing, leadership.
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A
Yeah.
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C
So, man, you know what it's like to pastor a church and a growing church and all the things. I don't get a lot of opportunities to like, stop and think about it because I got Thursday comes with amazing regularity around here, you know, and so. And you're preaching and you and you and you talk about that super bloom. And I actually asked you to preach that sermon because I've heard, I've heard that illustration where we were somewhere. I have no idea.
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We were exponential. Yeah.
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C
And. And it was interesting because if you looked at the front of the church while you're preaching, it's just barren carpet.
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A
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.
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And then in the response, it's just praising people.
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Yeah.
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C
And I thought that's. There's a blue.
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Yeah.
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But this thing, I got into it because my football coach that led me to Christ volunteer told me I was preaching.
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Really, bro.
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We're at this little camp that I got saved at. I'm 19 years old. I was like the grass cutter and the lifeguard, whatever. And he said, hey, when the singing's done, you're up, you're preaching. And we were up there singing. I am a C. Like, I was like, dude, it's a 90 second song. What do we do? And he just made me go, no, no prep. None.
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A
Wow.
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C
That's how that his discipleship philosophy was, boy, get in the Truck. And he just. So I get up there, I preach John 3:16. Literally, I knew I could find it in my Bible. And I preached for. I'm sure it was terrible. And kids got saved.
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A
Wow.
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And when I got done, he put his finger in my chest and he said, boy, when you teach the Bible, I see two things happen. I see you come alive. I see them come alive.
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A
Wow.
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C
And I was like, coach, I'm never going. I'm never working at church. And he just wouldn't. He just wouldn't leave me alone, man. You know, And I have felt, particularly the last few weeks, I preached our. Our student camp this summer. It was unbelievable. We took 2,000 kids to student camp. And the spiritual intensity of the students around this place is on 10, man. And every time revival starts, it starts with that generation. And I've been banging the drum here. To our people. We. We have an enemy. Anytime God wants to do a major move that the devil tries to wipe out a generation, dude, that is what he is doing. The transgender craze, the attack on this generation, the confusion, oh my gosh, it's epidemic, right? And so a big part of what I'm calling our church to is to stand on that wall for the provision protection of these kids and not to speak down to them, to speak life into them and say, man, what if the big thing of 1122 is not even what we do, but who we raise? It's been rattling around in my head. So, man, I hope it's not just me. I hope there's an army of adults going to students and college students and saying, I sense God doing a great thing in you that was powerful.
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D
I wonder if you could say more about that, because I thought of that scripture that. That life and death's in the power of the tongue. And we talk a lot about how words cutting people down, you know, it's focus on the death part a lot. But I can look back on my own life and think if there's a few people that don't just say something to me, like, you got to go after. You got to do that. You know, that that was a life giving. It was. People get weird about it, you know, like when they manifest or whatever. But there was a life giving thing that happened in me when they said some words, you know? And so can you say anything more about that?
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A
Yeah, I just wrote an email about this today. People are overwhelmed. This sounds like a great idea. How do I do it? And Paul says in 1 Thessalonians 2, he talks about being A spiritual father. And what did he actually do? He said, I encouraged you, I comforted you, and I urged you to live lives worthy of the calling you've received. That's it. Put a Venn diagram, bingo right there. Encourage people. In Greek, it means to put courage in someone. I mean, it's not simple. It's like, you see someone who's struggling and you speak into that. You can do this, man. I'm with you. You look. You know, I've got a famous story about running this marathon. I did one marathon. I'm dying. It's a hundred degrees. Nothing's weak. Little. Just regular marathon. And mile 25, it's 100 degrees. I'm gonna. I feel like I can't go on. And some guy yells out at me, you look strong today.
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Let's go.
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And I just was like, that's good. And I just ran the rest of the thing. The power of words encourage, comfort. People get beat up, they don't need. When they're struggling. What they need is someone to go, hey, listen, man, I know that's hard. I understand that. They don't need to be told, lectured, judged. They just need someone to empathize with them. And then they need to be urged. That urging voice of like, I want everything God has for you. I refuse to let you settle. You get those three things together, you got something potent. If you only comfort, you're going to produce weak people. If you only urge, you're going to put too much pressure on them. And if you only encourage, it's going to be. It's going to be like a participation award. You get to get those things together. That's what he calls spiritual parenting. I think there's something. Something good in that.
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D
So how does that relate to your foxhole brother concept of, like, what men can do for each other?
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Yeah. So the foxhole concept, or Matt carriers, Matt Toters, or as Matt Chandler calls them, a king's table. Deputized men who have permission to grab you by the scruff of your shirt and be like, that's not how we're going to do this, buddy. Whether it's how you talk to your wife and children, whether it's how you're handling your finances, whether it's how you are being the spiritual thermometer for your household and not the spiritual ther. Thermostat for your household. But, guys, I've said this a billion different ways, but two ways have come out higher than anything else. Where guys will start to understand is I talk about a 3am friend. And I talk about a guy that'll help you bury your dog. So at 3:00am Friend. Because people stay up until like 1 or 2, like night house. No one's up at 3:00 clock except for like insane people. And so if your life is falling apart at three o' clock in the morning and you don't have anyone that you could call to get you to the next hour, right? You're, you're behind, you're like super far behind.
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Vulnerable.
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Yeah, it's vulnerable. That's exactly it. The number one thing men don't want to be, right. They're right there exposed, right? I talk about all the time how lone wolves die alone. Watch Animal Planet. Like they get, they get kicked out of the pack and then they die alone, right? And the same thing with, when you're getting into this entire concept is like a guy that will just show up. Because when my dog, my best friend died, I had two buddies just show up because they figured I'd be in my backyard burying them myself. And I was 100 degrees August in Oklahoma. That's exactly what I was doing. They just showed up. One guy showed up with some scotch and they got showed up with a boombox and a tent. And we just got to digging, right? Didn't do a whole lot of talking, right? But again, this, this goes back to really everything that you're saying. Because when you're talking about unprecedented generosity and, and category defining community, like that's what that is is category defining community. Because everyone's got fellas, right? Everyone's got buddies, everyone's got guys that'll help them move a fridge or build a section of fence, like if it's not too inconvenient, right? But when you have these guys that are deputized to be able to talk to you in a way, they don't mind interrupting you, they don't mind grabbing you. Because you need guys in your, in your life that aren't too afraid of whether or not like you're going to throw a punch. Because if that's the worst case scenario of me trying to bring you to the feet of Jesus, I'll take that long.
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C
Another word you use that that just is rattling in my brain is you talk about the instinct was unleashed for generosity. Talk to me about the word instinct, because when you said it, I was like, oh my gosh, that's it. You know, like there's something deep in us that wants to be a conduit of the grace of God. And then there's this other thing later, after the instinct has kicked in that talks you out of doing the thing God has called you to do. Right.
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A
You know that lady that got that baseball? Yes, that lady Phillies fan, went and nagged. Here's this dad taking his son out, doing the right thing. He comes and hugs his son. It was a sweet moment. And then this lady comes over. That's not a generosity instinct. See, her instinct was to go, seize, take. No one had to tell her. She was primed, ready to do that. What happens when the gospel hits your heart is it you're set free from self concern. And the reason most people aren't generous is because they're afraid. No one's gonna come through for me. That's the orphan spirit, spirit of bondage and slavery again, to fear I'm not gonna have enough. I'm not gonna be enough, I'm not gonna be able to provide. And so they're just clinging with closed fists. And Jesus comes along and he's like, I got you. Seek first the kingdom, it'll all be added unto you. You'll get a hundred X in this life if you leave it all and you follow me when that hits the heart when you see those moments instead of shrinking back in fear, like I need to preserve myself. Cause there's not enough. Everything within you is saved. There's an unlimited supply. I'm old school Pentecostal. Our theology is so simple. It was like God's will, God's bill. If he can get it through you, he can get it to you. I mean like all of this stuff. I'm running a church in New York on God's will, God's bill. And if he can get it through, he'll get it to you. So every time you see it, you're saying to God, there's an unlimited supply according to his riches in Christ Jesus in glory. So I can draw on the heavenly bank account. So you, you gotta get that in you. And Jesus seemed to be at war with Mammon unlike anything else he was at war with in the gospels because it's an umbrella thing. I just met with a guy that, who's been in my life for quite a while. Very, very generous. I could tell you so many stories of how he's been kind, but he just, he goes to a church somewhere else and he just gave his first seven figure gift. And I said, hey, what was that like, man? He goes, I just wish the whole world could understand how freeing and liberating it was. The most joy filled thing I've Ever done was sell my house and give the money for the church's building program. Because my heart's totally free. Look at all my friends are enslaved. I feel totally free. And they said, I wish someone had preached this to me earlier. You will be free and you will love it. That's what the gospel does.
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D
You say, Pastor Joby, that generosity begets more generosity. And then you mentioned fear. I thought, so we're on vacation, and there's. We're on this lake, and there's this. These rocks that go right to the water. And we go up there, and it's like 20ft. And you get up there, and you might be tough down there in the water, but you get up there, you're just like, whoo. It's one of those things where when you jump, you kind of, like, count a little bit before you hit the water and you're afraid. And then when you jump. And my kids did this, both of them, when they jump, first thing out of the water is, I gotta do that again. So the fear got flipped around to, like. I think that's why generosity begets more generosity, because that fear gets flipped around, and all of a sudden you see the joy in it.
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Keller had this phrase, which I loved. He said, money flows effortlessly to that which is its God and what you worship. Money will flow there. If someone in our culture came along and they said, hey, I want to go to Europe. And they said, I'm going to take 10% of my income and I'm going to put it away for a little Europe trip, everyone will be like, oh, that's amazing.
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C
Great idea.
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A
And if you say to everyone, like, I love the Lord Jesus and I love his church, I'm gonna take 10% of everything I've got and I'm gonna put it away. Oh, what are you doing? All the church. It's just crazy. Money effortlessly goes to that which you value most. Wow, that's great.
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B
So there's something that you said that brought this up earlier. Cause I used to live in New York, and you were. And I talking about earlier, when you would run into a Christian in a city of millions and millions of people in the five boroughs, you'd be like, where have you been hiding, man? That's awesome. Like, there's another one here, which, when you're in Oklahoma, you, like, trip and fall and, like, land on seven churches as you're trying to regain your bal. But a lot of. There's a lot of power in a name. And everyone's kind of said that a Different derivative of that. But in Judges 6, this is the call of Gideon, right? And so. And the angel of the Lord, this is judges 6, verse 12. And the angel of the Lord appeared to him and said to him, the Lord is with you, O mighty man of valor. Now, before that, he's the threshing wheat in a winepress, like, below ground, because he was terrified that someone might see him, right? He was hiding. But the angel of the Lord, So potential Christophany, the angel of the Lord's like, there's like, almighty man of valor, like. And there were some other names and some other translations and things like that, but when you give a name to somebody, I think it kind of goes back. That was like a through point of your sermon tonight. John, is like, it's permission. So Joby said after the sermon, like, every time he hears you preach, his faith is stretched.
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C
That's it.
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B
Part of it is you're getting permission to do that because most other people. You mentioned a plausibility structure right there from the beginning. You know, Chandler talks about that a lot, but no one has seen something like this. When you were here earlier this week for Church Leaders Summit or something like that. You don't know church can be done this way. And so you look at it as an aspirational identity, but when you have an aspirational identity, it becomes a destination. And then when you get there, you sit on your laurels, right? It's people that have goals, but not standards, Right? So you reach your goal, but then you don't have a standard that, like, keeps your discipline flowing for the rest of your life. And, I mean, what you're doing is kind of putting the scaffolding around what the movement of God is currently doing here in Jacksonville and elsewhere.
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A
Yeah, Well, I was just like, hey, look, everywhere I preach, I try and figure out what's God done in the past there. That stuff's still hanging around in the air somewhere. God knows that it happened there. So I was just trying to do a little research, see what's up. And I was like, wow, man. They had, like, this multi ethnic denominational revival. They build a 6500. We got 3000 back here. Imagine something twice this size for a service. I was like, most people would hear that and they would just go, that could never happen again. And I was like, I think these guys are probably ready for a little vision boost. And they probably go, you know what I could see. Billy Graham came here. You know, Billy Graham came here. He got 760,000 people all up at his crusade. But it wasn't in one night. A lot of repeats. A lot of people flying in from around America. Billy's getting old. He's not a local guy. But when you said a local guy, hey, you know, I mean, what's happening here? Genuinely zero. Flattery is extraordinary. You got 1500 people flying in to learn from it. It would be very easy to go, let's just take it from here. Let's run the same plays. Let's keep it on. But to say, what if 115,000 people came to something that God did? I think you take that challenge, you know, a lot of people don't take that challenge.
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C
I'll be thinking about it a lot, praying about it a lot. I mean, again, that's why I closed the way I did. Everybody loves, right, that God will do exceedingly more than we ever hope, dream or imagine. Well, then maybe our hopes, Dr. Dreams and imaginations are too small.
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A
Yeah.
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C
Because if he's going to exceed it and we can hold God to his own promises, then you've helped me dream bigger about what God may want to do in us and through us and to us.
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A
People. People say to me, you know, we're in a season. God's really blessing what we're doing. I'm so grateful for it. I genuinely. You've got all the glory. Because if you have been in New York, there's no illusion that this is me. It's like I have a profound awareness that it's God. But if you study New York's history, that a million people converted in the businessman's revival in 1857. Wow. And so we're seeing God move in powerful ways. But it's like, what is your standard of what God can do in your city? And if I just look at the best models of the recent years, I'm going to have a limited vision. If I study the Bible, who God is, what is possible, I'm going to be asking for a little more. So I'm always grateful, never content. You know, I'm always, thank you, Lord, but I am hungry for more.
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C
That's a good way to say it. Always grateful, never content.
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B
But John, as well, you have. You have Christians that are in the know, right? So they read Christian websites and Christian news and they keep up with Christian Twitter and whatever or whatever calling it now. And so they know where movements of God are taking place. So they're smart enough to know that. Oh, man. Sub Saharan Africa, man. That's where the church is really exploding. Oh, man. You mentioned it. Tonight with Muslims in the Middle east, where there can't be street preachers and things like that. It's all underground.
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C
Right.
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B
You have people getting saved in their dreams because, you know, they have a vision like the Bill Qureshi did, where Jesus comes to him in a vision.
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C
Right.
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B
Oh, you know, Southeast Asia, like, those types of things. And we forget about our cubicle.
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A
Yeah.
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B
Like. Like we forget about where we are. And the number of guys that send me these messages because, you know, maybe they heard, you know, one of Yalls sermons or read one of Yalls books or, you know, something from my show, and they're like, I think I'm being called into ministry. So I. I think that means I'm supposed to be quitting my job. And I'm like, perhaps, but perhaps the ex that you're over right now is your ex.
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C
Right?
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A
100%. Yeah. Listen, I think we do forget Paul made tense.
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B
Yep.
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A
We need to stop rushing past that. This is the apostle writing the New Testament, raising the dead, preaching the areopagus, facilitating citywide riots, raising up discipling. He still was just getting a little manual laboring in the side. And so he just did whatever it took wherever he was to be on mission, wherever God had him end a story. It's a posture of the heart, not a location. And if you're not on mission where you are, why do you think you'll be on mission somewhere later you're not gonna be. They say it's a sense of calling and mentality. I talk. You know, when I was a butcher, I worked really, really hard, a ton of long hours. It was like, when I hear people. When I hear people in the workplace talk about HR standards today, I just want to laugh. I'm just like, what are you even talking about? It was so insane. And I graduated from. I got a scholarship to come to the US at the end of it, and as I was leaving, I won this award called Apprentice of the year. It's a long story. Doesn't matter that much, but I basically worked really hard and was recognized as the best apprentice butcher in my state. So I go to this big award at this. This college thing, and they give me this certificate and all this stuff. And as I'm leading, it wasn't audible, but it was as close to audible as I've ever had. And the Lord said to me, you wanted me in the butcher shop. I will honor the next season of your life. And it was one of those things that, like, if you can't figure out how to glorify God where you are. Why do you think you'll glorify him later? And you will look back later with regret at that season. All you get is this season to glorify God today. And so don't think if the conditions change, then I'll glorify God. If it was better if I. So much of my life I just spend saying, what's the call? And I have two categories called nice and necessary. I've got a million things on my nice list and my necessary list is on mission right now with who's in front of me, with whatever I've got. I don't need more money, I don't need more time. I. I don't need more. I can do everything God's called me to now. That mentality will open the doors later. But if you don't live like that, you won't be the man you are needed to when you're ready.
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B
Because it's the guy that waits for January so that he can post New Year New Me. It's like, no, bro, it's New Year. Same you. It's time to get after it. And so guess what? The bill comes due every morning. So whether you're cultivating spiritual, mental or physical resilience or something like that, you're trying to become mature, you're trying to, you know, get tethered to your sanctification journey, you're trying to be discipled as you're discipling others and all that. The bill comes due every morning. You go, you don't get to spiritually invest in the Bible today for tomorrow. You don't get to work out today for next week. You get today for right now. But most guys don't have that perspective.
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A
It's the con. You've heard of the 20 mile march, Armanson, who was the explorer, that's it to me, man. It's the 20 mile march every day. You can't be sporadic. You got to be consistent. You just stay on the thing that God's called you to every day. If people would take 10 minutes and just before they went into work just said, lord, I offer you this day. Give me a heart for my co workers. Let me be a pastor in this place. Lord, help me do my job to glorify you where it's unto you. And if you just start showing up like that, you said it earlier, everyone will want Christians on their team because Christians will be the best workers there are.
- [25:55]
C
Yeah, if there was a way we could kind of. I don't want to Just get into a semantics thing and Jesus juke people with words. But words matter a lot. And in reality, those of us that feel called to full time vocational work at a church are technically not in the ministry. According to Ephesians 4:20, Our job is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. So the football coach is way more frontline ministry than the youth pastor. Way more. Because he's with lost kids all the time and with them all day, every day.
- [26:28]
A
Yeah.
- [26:29]
C
And so if we could get that shift, like, oh, no, you have to work at church. You don't get to be in the ministry. You're behind the scenes now. Your job is to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. That is a better way to think about it.
- [26:43]
A
We talk about the huddle in the game. Church is the huddle, man. Games out there love the huddle. The goal is not to grow the huddle. The goal is to win the game and come in and enjoy the huddle. But understand what it's for out there is where you're playing.
- [26:55]
C
One of the things I love about your story, I just love being around you, man. The way you talk about God's call and plan in your life, it honestly, the way you talk about it sounds like the book of Acts. So Willie, last night, that's a big part of what he's talking about. He was like, okay, what if they wrote the book of Acts of your life? What would it look like? You went to work, you sat down, you watched TV repeat. Like, what would it sound like? Okay, when you talk, that's what it sounds like. You sound like you could be the next chapter in the book of Acts. I think a problem these days is this. Okay, you've been grinding from the butcher shop until today, but then all of a sudden you pop up on all the Christian social media world. Like, in my world, you popped up a few years ago, you know, And I think you get a bunch of especially younger guys in the ministry that see the John Tyson today and they think, I want that. But what they've never done is dedicate their knives unto the Lord while they're chopping meat in utter obscurity in a place that most people won't even see with their eyes. Does that make sense?
- [27:58]
A
Yeah, of course.
- [27:59]
C
And it is a real danger. We just did that, that church leaders conference, and I can't tell you the number of 25 year old guys that sit in front of me and go, I want to change the world. I was like, dude, that's great. What do you do right now? Like, well, I'm the young adult pastor at such and such church. I'm like, let me tell you how to change the world. You'd be the most devoted young adults pastor at that church. And if God wants you to change the world, he'll tell your pastor and your pastor will tell you and put his hands on you and commission you. But if you're not faithful, like, if you're trying to step over what God has trusted you with right now, why in the world do you think God would trust you with it anymore?
- [28:37]
A
I tell people all the time. People say, man, how do you do so much? Like, you're always cranking out stuff. It's young leaders. I'm like, how old are you? Like, I'm 28. I'm like, you married?
- [28:46]
C
Yeah.
- [28:46]
A
You got a couple little kids? I was like, when I was 28, you know what I was doing? Breathing through a straw under the crushing obligations of my life. I was tired. I was up at 4 o' clock in the morning so I could get some time with the Lord so I wouldn't be a jerk. I wanted to create the atmosphere of my home so my kids would wake up without stress. And I try to stay married. And I was planting a church in New York. I wasn't writing or mate. I was living my life. And so at 28, you know what you need to do? Live your life. Like all of these, all of these false expectations. And, you know, in many ways I'm just reaping fruit of that I've just sowed for many, many years. And again, you've got to enjoy the season. In many ways, I die to go back and be 28 and breathe through a straw. Man, that was a beautiful season of my life. So, yeah, you've gotta be faithful where you are. Don't fast forward. I can tell you right now you don't have the character at 25 for the kind of influence you want. Half of it is God just beating you up, humbling you, working out the cracks in your character so that at some point, even if he can trust you with it, God has no desire to elevate people with idols in their hearts who will dishonor him in ministry. And you will tear down with your life what you build with the pulpit if God doesn't get that stuff out of you. So there's a lot of. I think there's a lot. You got to just eat some humble pie, bro. Eat some humble pie.
- [30:15]
C
Nobody ever thinks about it. This way. But the Bible, Jesus says he's a good dad. And what, what dad among you, if the kid asked for a fish, would give him a snake. Some people are actually the ministry they're praying for would be a snake in their life because it would kill them.
- [30:30]
A
Yeah.
- [30:30]
C
And God would not be a good father to hand you something you're not ready for. You dummy.
- [30:36]
A
The problem is, as well as they, you don't need any more influence to have a beautiful, fruitful life giving relationship with God.
- [30:43]
B
Amen.
- [30:44]
A
There's nothing wrong with holy ambition. I've got a lot of ambition, but my inner life is absolutely thrilled in Jesus and I'm living for eternal life like you know it. At some point, another thousand people in your church is not going to fix or change. There's got to be something in you, in your relationship with Jesus that is connected to faithfulness, to the call that you have. It's free from outcomes. You know, if you're only as good as your last sermon, that's a terrible cycle to be in. So just spend time getting your heart right with the Lord and I can promise you by the time it shows up, you won't want the influence. You'll be preaching from love. And as I was thinking tonight, I was thinking, genuinely, I was thinking, what am I even doing preaching here? What am I even doing preaching? There's about 50,000 people that would die to preach at this event. I said to you, thanks for taking a risk on me, but I'm not here. Your church can't give me anything and I'm not here trying to take, I'm literally thinking, lord, please pour your spirit out on this church, Lord, keep doing it. I have an orientation towards the people, not an orientation towards the platform. If you gave me this platform at 28, I'd be thinking about how well I'm doing now. I'm just thinking about how I'm doing. God, please help these people get seeds of your word that bear 100x fruit in the city. It's taken me 20 years of Jesus.
- [32:10]
C
Here's why you're preaching here, because I love these people.
- [32:13]
A
Yeah.
- [32:14]
C
You are actually a gift from me to these people. Because I know, I know the kind of things you say. Yeah, that's literally how I think about it. Actually early on in saturated, I had somebody asked me, they're like, do you not get nervous because you're, because of who you're bringing in? They're like. And they, they actually pitched to me like, if I'm a C minus, shouldn't I just bring in Ds, so then everybody would. And I couldn't. I was like, oh, my gosh. If that is how you think, how sad. You were not. You're actually not a shepherd. You're not leading people beside green waters. I mean, green pastures and still waters.
- [32:51]
A
This. This is.
- [32:51]
C
I'm trying to bless our people.
- [32:53]
A
This is how I. I went through a season. I was in New York, and God completely freed me from this. I went through a season, and I was getting mentored by Keller, and I knew Hillsong were coming, and up until that point, I was like, a pretty gifted kid having a little moment in the sun. And I was like, I got around Keller, and I just realized this dude has just been deposited by God. A stronger gift on his life than will ever be me on my best. He just has been distributed something different. And Hillsong worship's obviously insane. And I went through this, like, crisis. Why am I in New York? I need to go to another city. I'm gonna be overshadowed. It was heavy. And then I had this revelation, praying on a bridge called the George Washington Bridge. The Lord said, you're insecure because you're a tutor. A tutor. A tutor and not a father. Tutors are competing for students. Oh, you took my student. And he says, if fathers want the best tutors possible to raise their kids to be their best. He says, if you become a father and stop being a tutor, insecurity will leave your life. It was like a spell broke off my life, and I just said I wanted. That's. So the reason you can bring the best folks in is because you want them. You're not a tutor competing for people. You're a father trying to bring the best people possible to raise them to maturity.
- [34:11]
B
John, part of the reason you were even able to be able to come out of that season, because we all misunderstand. Psalm 23. It's not about God delivering you from the valley. It's that whether you're about to go into the valley, you're in it or coming out of it, God's there with you. But you were making deposits, right? So how can you reap a harvest later on is because you were making a deposit when nobody else was paying any attention. And the deposit, the deposits are getting on your knees and praying, spending time in the word, like being in Christian community with. With other brothers and sisters to encourage them, and, you know, raising up your children in the nurturing admonition of the Lord and loving your wife in a sacrificial way to Just like, you know, Jesus did for his bride. And most people forget about the deposits. Like, you know, we talk about that in a man context. Like, if you wait until the day, the 3am situation, before you start investing in the lives of other dudes. Too late. You're way too late. But you were ready for that next season because you had made the deposit. So when you needed to start taking withdrawals, there was something in there.
- [35:05]
A
Right.
- [35:05]
B
You weren't just rattling around your. Your coffee can with a few nickels in there.
- [35:09]
A
Yeah, I mean, I. I think the most important thing is you've got to love God for himself and separate that from outcomes. It's like, number one, I'm building into my relationship with God, period. I'm going to live forever in a new heaven and a new earth and rule and reign as a king and a priest where righteousness dwells, in a new Jerusalem where you don't need lamps because Jesus is light. So that's where I'm headed next. And I keep that in my mind. That's ultimately what I'm being prepared for, is eternal life with Jesus. So part of that, it frees. It just that infinite horizon changes how you approach temporary things. And so I'm living in light of that. And so if I want to get to heaven and really enjoy Jesus, I probably should spend some time getting to know him now. And if I want to get on the Day of Judgment and not have all this stuff burned up and it become nothing like 1 Corinthians 3. It's like, man, I need to work for stuff that's not gonna perish. So a lot of it is preparation to meet God. 1 Corinthians 4. Judge nothing. Before the appointed time, each one of us will stand before Jesus and give an account for our lives. It says, the motive of our hearts will be revealed and each of us will receive our praise from God. So I'm working on standing before Jesus and him just going, you did that for me. He did that one for you. I hope you enjoyed that, but you did that one for me. Good stuff, mate. You know? And so all of that is freeing me up from the frenetic energy of having to be someone or accomplish something. I didn't start there, but I got there. And so then what I'm doing is I'm trying to figure out, okay, what pleases you out of who you called me to be. And then you just. Yeah, you just sow into that every day. And as the Bible says, God rewards those who diligently seek him we say at our church all the time, such a lukewarm culture. Such a lukewarm culture that diligence is rejected as legalism. This is not legalism. This is hunger. This is vision. This is a reward that is promised to me for this diligent pursuit. So, yeah, get your eyes on that stuff, and God will honor you in due time. He's the Lord of the harvest. He's in charge of the timing, the rising, the falling, and just try to get that off your back, get the pressure off. Love people, enjoy God, Be in the season. I think God will take care of the rest.
- [37:32]
C
The other thing is, you have no idea the part that you're playing in God's redemptive narrative.
- [37:37]
A
Yeah.
- [37:37]
C
I mean, think about it. A high school football coach led me to Christ and died before I planted this church.
- [37:44]
A
Wow. He's probably having a good time right.
- [37:46]
C
Now, you know what I'm saying? Like, bro, this is fruit on his tree, man. We were talking about it the other day. The little church that my wife grew up in that was pastored and founded by her grandfather. We would all judge that as not necessarily, like the most fruitful church. There's about 125, 150 people in a little rural community. It's a faithful church. It's a great church. Well, guess what? They raised this godly woman that I married. And at a time in my life 25 years ago, I was this close from walking away from ministry because I thought I was done kind of an Elijah moment under the broom tree going, I think it's over for me. And God sent him an angel to speak some truth, and God sent me one. I just happened to be married to her. And that girl that, that Lone Star Church raised, without her. There's no 1122, dude. That is fruit on the tree of the faithfulness of that little rural church in Roanoke, Virginia, that area. So you have no idea. I do think a part of what Corinthians is talking about when it says, now we see in part, then we will see in full. I'm believing a part of the way that we worship God eternally is that he gets. We talk about this sometimes. He lets us see the dots connected and how he, like, why did he put us together to know each other and be. Be cheering for one another? And, you know, it's. We're going to get to see this full picture. Like, tonight. There's somebody here that got called into ministry.
- [39:12]
A
Yeah. Yeah.
- [39:12]
C
You know what I mean?
- [39:13]
A
Amen.
- [39:13]
C
And it's not even going to come to fruition for a long and you're not even going to know it until heaven.
- [39:17]
A
Yeah.
- [39:19]
C
And then somehow that, you know, jewel in the crown gets laid at the feet of Christ. You get to pilot up with the elders around the throne saying, holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty who was and is and is to come. What a reward.
- [39:32]
D
Well, we have to end sadly, but I wanna. Before we close, imagine a person is in the butcher shop and they're facing that person who's just saying that. You just cuss them out every day. You know what, how would you encourage them to keep going?
- [39:58]
A
One of the things I have right now is objective perspective. I've got distance and I've read the lives of many godly people and I would just say to them, you gotta trust the providence of God. You will get through this, this will work for your good and you can't. You know, my hero of heroes is William Carey, so I can plod. It's like I'm not good at much man. He discipled India. He touched 26 areas of Indian life and culture through plotting. And when you go back through his life, many of those moments that seem like the darkest moments become the brightest moments. Many of those things that you never thought would have any kind of hope, these are just seeds that God's going to activate later. So I'd just say zoom out. Don't collapse in the moment. Zoom out. Look into your future, know he's been good in your past. Look into the future, know he's going to meet you here. And ask him for grace to endure. Because James 1, that's how you are formed, that's how your capacity grows. And I can almost promise you what you're being tested with is a key for what you'll go through next. I can't tell people enough how much people say like, dude, there's so much stuff in New York you just blah, blah. I'm like, this was formed in me at 17 years old. I am still. I have the mentality of a manual worker doing 15 hour days because the truck came in and we're not leaving until it's done. And I had no idea that was perfect training for a Manhattan lifestyle. I even have that in my head. So all of that stuff just got me ready to work with secular people who resist what we're building. And I'm just going to out grind and outlast them because Jesus formed those gifts in me. So I just say, keep going, ask for God's grace, have some community to come and show up at work every now and then and buy a lunch and give you some hope and realize this will pass. Don't miss the lessons in the pain because this will pass.
- [42:05]
D
And Tim Keller say something like, God's doing everything in your life that you would do for yourself if he saw. If you saw what he sees and loved you perfectly.
- [42:16]
A
Right?
- [42:16]
D
Something like that.
- [42:17]
B
I think I missed listen before we let him go.
- [42:19]
A
That's good.
- [42:19]
B
I think we need, like, an official, like, expert opinion. What is the best steak? Like, what is the best available steak from an actual butcher bun and rib off. Of course it is. Okay. I just needed to make sure that we were all on the same page there.
- [42:33]
A
Okay.
- [42:33]
B
1 sure.
- [42:34]
C
You are a Southerner.
- [42:35]
D
You want to pray, Pastor?
- [42:37]
C
I do first, but I do want to say thanks, man.
- [42:39]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [42:40]
C
You know how we're all parents. You know how you really love people that bless your kids? That's what I feel like with you being here.
- [42:49]
A
Thanks, man. Thanks. It was an honor, really. I mean, it was. I loved it.
- [42:53]
C
Well, you'll be back. Yeah, actually soon. For the men's conference.
- [42:56]
D
That's right.
- [42:56]
C
Let's pray. Father in heaven, Lord, we thank you for your faithfulness. We thank you for your sovereign hand. God, we can't get over the gospel that you would even redeem us and then to call us to be a part of your team. And so, God, I pray that your hand of blessing would continue to move not just on us, but through us and God. We expand our hopes, we expand our dreams, our imaginations of what you can do for your glory and your glory alone. We pray it in Jesus name. Amen.
- [43:26]
A
Amen.
- [43:27]
B
Thank you for listening to.
- [43:35]
C
The reality.
- [43:35]
A
Is everything already belongs to God.
- [43:38]
C
And when we give financially, we're acknowledging.
- [43:41]
A
That we trust him. If you just watch this and feel led.
- [43:44]
C
To make a donation, text the word donate to 441122 or visit COE22.com donate your generosity is not only an act of of worship, but an investment so all people can discover and deepen a.
- [43:59]
A
Relationship with Jesus Christ.