Pastor 1 (1:45)

Yeah, I just heard one on stage at a Acts 29 conference and was impressed by his preaching and his leadership and all of that and just kind of leaned in and we started hanging out and I preached at his church at Rooted. And then, you know, we're also. We're always looking for the best and trying to advance the kingdom and so on. Is going to play a big role in taking what we're doing here with the school of ministry and taking it to the globe, man.

Host/Interviewer (2:09)

Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah. So on Confidence, his wife and two girls are now here in Jack's, one of the pastors at our church, and we're Just pumped. So, anything else you'd share about the journey? I mean, I know it's been a long one. It's been full of challenge.

Pastor Ona (2:24)

Yeah, it's been a long one. But just first, I just want to say thank you. I think it's a tremendous privilege to be here. Thank you, Pastor Joby and the team here. And it's no small thing to join a team that's doing some really incredible things, and. And God is clearly showing up and showing off here. And so I'm thankful to be here and to contribute to what God is doing, not just in Jacksonville, but all across the world. Yeah, it's. It's. It's a journey, you know, flying across the Atlantic and a new context, a new culture. But we're surprised. My wife and I are, like, massively surprised. Our girls have adjusted really, really well. They're enjoying school. But I. I think it's largely because, you know, they're so familiar with the U.S. you know, there's so much of the U.S. out there in the world. They knew what target was before they even went to one. So it's. It's. It's been good, but it. It's, you know, a day at a time. You know, a day at a time. But we've been welcomed. We've been loved. We've been cared for. It's a great church.

Pastor 1 (3:20)

Great.

Host/Interviewer (3:21)

Yeah. Awesome. We're in Luke 2. We're talking through this Advent or Christmas series about different. Different men in the story, and today we're talking about shepherds. Now, Pastor Joby, you've talked a lot about maybe the shady reputation of a shepherd.

Pastor 1 (3:38)

It's true.

Host/Interviewer (3:39)

And so if you're a man in the first century and you're a shepherd, what do you think is the state of your. Your insides? And. And does that relate at all to where many men are today?

Pastor 1 (3:51)

Yeah, that's a good correlation. It's interesting. The humility of the Lord is put on display in, like, Psalm 23, when David would say, the Lord is my shepherd. So there's this crazy high calling in what it means to care, to love for, to feed, to be willing to lay down your life for. And then Jesus elevates it in and says, I am the good shepherd. Because historically, you were probably a boy, not a man. You probably. There was some great land owner. The shadiness of it is you were very transient. You didn't have a permanent address. Because of that, citizenship was usually not allowed to you. You couldn't speak in courts with any transient kind of People, you know, oftentimes there can be some shadiness around there. Not because those people are shady, because that kind of lifestyle attracts people that want to be shady. Does that make sense? And you're just out in the woods a lot by yourself or with other people about your age. And so it was not a high and holy compliment to be called a shepherd, even though Jesus said he was, even though David says God is. Which. I mean, speaking of. Part of the miraculous understanding of Christmas is that God became one of us. And so he stepped off of his throne into a place of humility and then goes after this group of guys to be, you know, the first heralders of the gospel of the incarnation. And he didn't go to the throne room. He didn't go to the king. He didn't go to parliament. He went to these boys out in a field in the middle of nowhere.

Host/Interviewer (5:32)

And there's a. It's not just men, but certainly true of men, that we can often feel like we're Were too far gone or not good enough to be called on by God or to be used by God. And so maybe there's something to something that could preach there, right? Like the fact that this is the group that hears the good news. I mean, anything there.

Pastor 1 (5:58)

Oh, dude, God is the king of column. The. The least of these, the uneducated. I mean, the first witnesses of the resurrection were women. And they, you know, again, can't testify in a court of law, can't own property. There's a bunch of those kind of things there, right? Especially in the first century. The guy that plants more churches than anybody's past is a religious terrorist. Jesus, when he's picking disciples, he doesn't go get the best of the best from the Ivy League schools. He doesn't go to Gamaliel's class and be like, all right, you, you, and you. You have the highest SAT scores. He goes to the fishermen, which means they probably got kicked out of Hebrew school at some point and were told to go learn the trade of their father. So this is just very much in line with what Paul says, that God uses the really the silly and foolish things of this world to confound the wise.

Pastor Ona (6:45)

God loves to do this. If I could jump in here, just. He loves to take the culturally insignificant, to do the eternally significant. This is not unfamiliar to what he does. I mean, you. You go to the Old Testament, if you read the scriptures, you see Moses, well, what's he doing? Well, he's tending sheep. You know, he goes to David if when Israel's looking for a king, he's like, well, let me go find someone who's out in the fields just tending sheep, doing the ordinary. And so there's no surprise after 400 years of silence. You know, it's like you send someone a text message and you're, you're waiting. You see that bubbling little, you know, it's like, is he going to reply? Is he going to reply? Is he going to reply? 400 years later, God shows up and he's like, well, let me go find some guys, you know, out in the wilderness just taking care of sheep.

Pastor 1 (7:31)

And then of all the language that God could have chosen to use for the folks that were going to steward the direction and leadership of the bride of Christ, he uses the same term of shepherd. The pastor and shepherd are the same word. So two things are simultaneously true. That you're a nobody and you have a really big job to love, to care for, to feed, to know, and you know, on staff. You've heard me talk about it a ton. Is that woe to the church that is led by a cowboy and not a shepherd? And I love cowboys. Cowboys are, I mean, I wear cowboy boots. I have a cowboy belt buckle. I'm gonna put a cowboy hat on this afternoon. I don't know, a cow. And there's the problem, because anybody that's a pastor and they love like cowboys love being cowboys more than they love cows. And cows are like a means to a cowboy end. No problem. When you're talking about cows and cowboys, that's fine. But we haven't been called to be cowboys. And if a pastor begins to use his flock as a means to his own end, and he loves pastoring more than he loves the people that he's supposed to care for. You're in a, you're in a real, real, real problem.

Host/Interviewer (8:41)

I also love what you said, that cowboys are often behind making noise, pushing, whipping or whatever, yelling. And then shepherd's in front, gently calling, you know, often like holding them in his arms, like.

Pastor 1 (8:56)

Yeah. And they're cowboy games.

Host/Interviewer (8:57)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (8:58)

I mean, they go to compete to see who the best cowboy is.

Host/Interviewer (9:01)

Right.

Pastor 1 (9:02)

And there's no shepherd games you never seen. There's cowboy stores. You can go and get clothes to look like a cow. I do. There's no shepherd stores. And, and when p. And all those things are true for pastors, bro.

Host/Interviewer (9:16)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (9:16)

There are pastor games. The number of conferences that are just preach offs to see who the best one is. And you get into that stuff and you love pastoring more than you love people, be real careful. Or if you're trying to stand in the back of your church and push a bunch of people to go in places they don't want to go, that's just not shepherding. If you're counting heads of cattle instead of feeding sheep, it's just not shepherding.

Pastor Ona (9:42)

One of the wisest words I ever received. Many, many years ago, you. You put on a church and, you know, things are starting to happen and everyone's excited and you get invited to all these conferences and a wise, wise, wise man sat me down and said on it, the most important thing that you can do right now is shepherd the flock that God has entrusted to you.

Pastor 1 (10:01)

Amen.

Pastor Ona (10:02)

And I'm so thankful that the Holy Spirit was working in me enough for me to listen, to actually sit down and go, you know what? That's actually true.

Pastor 1 (10:11)

Yeah. And when it's going well, like I'm. I speak it all, everything there is, I think, dude, it's not even close to preaching here on the weekends. It's not even close. I love our people. I would, you know, don't. The only, the only reason I do it, I was with Rick Warren a bunch of years ago, and that was kind of on the front end of getting asked to do a bunch of the stuff. And he was like, dude, it's your turn. Like, if. If we didn't do it, where would you be? And I was like, okay. And so he encouraged me to tithe my time to the kingdom.

Pastor Ona (10:44)

That's good.

Pastor 1 (10:46)

So if you just kind of look at the math of it, give about five and a half weeks, six weeks of my year to just kingdom endeavors, not just 1122. And so that's why I preach 37 to 40 times here. And then I try to take a little time off. And then those other times, I'm doing some kind of kingdom investment thing. And then even then, I don't know what the right word. I'm probably just selfish. I leverage all of that stuff for 1122. Like, the reason I know all these guys now that I can bring into saturated, who are the best preachers in the world. I met them at some conference somewhere. And I go in, like, I am recruiting nonstop. You see me at a church conference, I'm just going to tell all the pastors listening, your staff is not safe. God loves you, and I have a plan for your life. And so I know God's working here. And I am on the hunt for the sake of this flock and the glory of God, wherever I go, but not just that, but also to like, you know, build friendships and relationships with other churches, the world for us to partner together.

Host/Interviewer (11:48)

And we've certainly been blessed by a lot of those efforts. Right. You know, Luke 1 is chock full of stuff. And you know, you have the prophecy to Zechariah. He's, he doesn't respond well, you know.

Pastor 1 (12:07)

And, and it must be a heart thing. He says the exact same thing.

Host/Interviewer (12:09)

Mary totally.

Pastor 1 (12:10)

And he gets put in time out and marries. Yeah, got monuments.

Host/Interviewer (12:14)

You have the John the Baptist's birth is prophesied, and then you have Mary being visited by the angel and all these different things are happening. And then we get to two and two is where that famous, you know, Charlie Brown thing, you know, and that, you know, the, the decree is put out for them to return to their homeland. So the reason I'm saying all that is because in verse eight, in that same region, what do we know about Bethlehem and, and where they headed back home for the census?

Pastor Ona (12:46)

Well, we know that, you know, Augustus had put out a command, you know, and kind of forcing Joseph and very pregnant Mary to, to kind of, to kind of go, you know, and then, and to be in this place. And, and when you think about it, it can almost seem like, well, these circumstances are, are wild, but behind the scenes, behind the curtains, God is at work. God is orchestrating a story. And so just the beautiful reality of that, you know, God can take something that seems like, man, this is the worst situation ever. And yet he, he is molding it and shaping it. And so when I look at that, I can almost go, this is, this is the worst, this is not the way to introduce the Son of God. Like, this is. Surely there's a better, there's a better way to do this. And yet God's going, no, no, no, I, I can take anything, I can take any ingredients and put them together to unfold this grand narrative that I'm about to put on display. And so I, I just tend to think, even for my own life and, and for people that maybe, you know, were shepherding and discipling is. Sometimes you can look at your circumstances and go, there's no ways that God could be doing something here of any significance. And, and yet it's like, no, these are the perfect ingredients. You are perfectly positioned maybe for God to do something massive and God's not.

Pastor 1 (14:05)

Reacting to the situation. I mean, this thing has been prophesied over and over and over, and it was really hard for a bunch of folks like, Jesus is later Going to be like, man, you're reading my word. But the author of the words right here. And you don't get it right, because the word is going to say that the Messiah is going to come from Bethlehem and Nazareth and Egypt and Galilee. Well, how the heck do you pull all of that off? And then as you see it unfold, and you see it, you know, looking backwards through an empty tomb, then you see all of what. I mean, they thought the Roman Empire physically was the most powerful entity on the planet and was but kind of a. Just a piece of the puzzle in what God was doing in the fulfillment of all these things that had been written.

Host/Interviewer (14:54)

And it's the city of David that's significant, right? And. And Luke is. You know, each gospel writer has a slightly different focus that he's trying to bring out, you know, and a lot of. A lot of what he's saying is the lineage of David. Now in verse 10, I love this. So the angels appear to the shepherds, and they have this statement in verse 10, which I want to spend some time on. Fear not, for behold, I bring good news of great joy for all the people. So the first part of that is fear not, something that's often said by messengers from God. So it must be true that it's terrifying to see an angel. So what is. What is that about? Like, what's the. Where does the reaction of fear in the presence of the holiness of God really come from?

Pastor Ona (15:42)

Well, I've heard Pastor Joby say this, and I thought it was brilliant, is that, you know, one day when we stand, you know, before God, we tend to think. I've got so many questions that I'm going to ask. You know, I've been thinking about this. Why did you say this in Exodus? It's like, no, you're not. You're going to be blown away by the glory of God, right? And that's what's happening here. They are blown away. There is this holy terror. And we've got to distinguish it between, like, the fear of the world and this fear of God, this reverence. And that's what's happening. They're standing before this glory. And when that happens, and you see it over and over again in the Scriptures, when you're standing before the glory of God, you become acutely aware of how small you are, how unholy you are and how inadequate you are. And so just being aware of that is that this is a holy God who is worthy of all the glory. I would be filled with terror. You know, what I mean, because now it's almost this thing that's happening in me where I'm going, Woe is me, you know, Isaiah 6:5. Woe is me. I'm a man of unclean lips. It's like you're aware of my unholiness and how holy he is. And in that I can only imagine a number of questions that are going through their minds. You know, the purpose of life, eternity, who am I? Who is he? I believe that's what's happening.

Pastor 1 (17:07)

Yet I also think that it's very much what Isaiah is feeling. Listen, our normative response when the Authority shows up is, oh, I mean, this is silly, but it reminds me of, like when I was in the sixth grade, if they would come over to the intercom, I'd be like, joby Martin, come to the office. I did not think I probably won a prize. I thought, oh, they know. And again, back to the shadiness of a bunch of probably teenage boys that were shepherding some flocks in Bethlehem. And the heavens open up and they're like, oh, he knows. They know we are in trouble. And so fear not. Four, like, the reason I don't want you to be afraid is because I got good news. Not I'm here to get you, but I'm here to get you. And those are not the same two gets, you know, I love that.

Host/Interviewer (18:07)

So one. One way to show up when people are afraid of you is to be like, yeah, and you better be afraid, you know? And I love that. The first words out of his mouth, don't be afraid. And I mean, so there's a recognition of the fear, but also a desire to comfort right away, you know, and we know that perfect love casts out fear. And so it's a. It's. It's an embodiment of the. This is a love, a love message coming to you.

Pastor Ona (18:32)

It almost makes me wonder, are they aware of the fact that they're in big trouble? Because it's fear not. And it's, I proclaim good news. There's almost like, I've got hope for you. It's like, oh, no, no, no, no. Yeah, you are. But there's hope, right? You know what I mean? It counters that. And so there's this awareness of, like, oh, no, it's all coming together now. It's all coming together.

Pastor 1 (18:56)

Yeah. The rightly ordered fear of the Lord makes all the fear of sin and shame, all those things dissipate, right? I mean, that's it. That's, you know, where perfect love is. It drives out fear, like you just said. And that. And perfect love means that you rightly see God for who he is and who you are, and then you surrender to that love.

Host/Interviewer (19:16)

I think it's even today a culturally, almost like a cultural belief that, you know, God would strike me down. Like, have you ever heard somebody that you're talking to about church or whatever?

Pastor 1 (19:25)

All the time, oh, I can't go.

Host/Interviewer (19:27)

There because I'm struck by lightning or whatever.

Pastor 1 (19:29)

He strike you here, too? You know that? Yeah, that's what I just always said.

Host/Interviewer (19:31)

Right. So it's like, you think about where they're coming from. They probably had this perception that, like, that's. I don't ever want to be around anything like that because it's not going to go good for me.

Pastor Ona (19:41)

Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (19:41)

And then he says good news. Like, what. What is this? What's the difference between good news and the bad news they might bring? I mean, why does it say good news?

Pastor Ona (19:50)

Well, it's because he's about to unpack the solution to the massive problem, you know, that. That we'll see it later. But then he kind of give as he gives, the angels give the titles of who the savior is, who Jesus is. But the good news is that there. There is hope and there is a solution to your problem that you cannot fix it on your own. You can't. And we tend to think that we can. That's why we tend to either go, no, no, no, I'll fix it. I'll get it together. I'll show up once I've got my act together. It's like, well, you can't on your own. You simply cannot. You need something outside of yourself. You need someone outside of yourself to come and solve this problem that you have. And so that's the good news. They're about to unpack the gospel in such a beautiful, beautiful way.

Pastor 1 (20:37)

And so, I mean, just in case folks don't know gospel and good news are the same word. Eugelion. But here's the thing. I don't think people think about, like, news are not ideas. It's like. It's a thing that happens. Right. It's not good philosophy, it's not good sociology. It's not good psychotherapy. It's not. It's not. It's not. It's not ideas that they say, we're going to tell you. So for news to be news, two things have to happen. One, it had to actually happen.

Pastor Ona (21:08)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (21:09)

And then you have to tell somebody about it. So if you watch the nightly news now, they make Stuff up, but just pretend they were. There was actually a free press. Not. There's no such thing as a free press. Okay?

Host/Interviewer (21:20)

Infotainment.

Pastor 1 (21:21)

Yeah, dude, it's terrible. But, you know, for news to be news, that means an actual event happened and then somebody is proclaiming what happened. Think about that. That is unique. There's no other world religion or ideology that is based on that. Because they would say, well, first of all, it wouldn't start out with fear. Not it might be. So let's just skip the fear part because most religions would say, you should be very afraid. Here's why. Here are the teachings, here are the ideas, here are the philosophies, whatever it.

Host/Interviewer (21:55)

Is, to a certain mindset.

Pastor 1 (21:57)

Correct. Not. Here are the events that are unfolding before you. That our faith is unique because we don't have faith in faith. We don't have faith in ideas. We don't even have faith in doctrine. We have faith in an event that God became a man, lived a perfect life, died on a cross in our place, and three days later was resurrected from the grave and ascended to the right hand of God the Father and will return. That's what the good news is then. Okay, so that's news that's happened. It's got to be told about. Well, good is a relative term. So for news to be good, it must enter bad places. So the angels do not show up to neutral. They show up to darkness. They show up to evil. They show up to sin. Bad news. You're a sinner in the hand of an angry God. Really bad news, bad news. What you do deserve is for the wrath of God to be poured out on you. I've got some good news in light of that, and this is all about to happen. And like you said, the good news is not a thing for you to believe in.

Pastor Ona (23:09)

The.

Pastor 1 (23:10)

You know, it's not like, hey, if you could just. If you could just rethink the way you've thought about life, then maybe your life will go different. No, no. The good news is a rescue mission that God's going to come and do for you what you couldn't do for yourself.

Host/Interviewer (23:21)

Yeah, that's one of the interesting things about Christmas is because I think that what the commercialization of holiday, it focuses on the joy. That's like a feeling. And I don't think that's what the angel means when he says it's going to bring great joy. You know, what's the difference between somebody who's just like, oh, this is so much joy, and they're thinking about warm fuzzies versus the message of good news.

Pastor 1 (23:49)

Yeah. I mean, our whole country on a, in case you haven't heard, is rooted on fundamentally three things, right? Life, praise God. And honestly, what the founders of our country had right, the core of it, they didn't, they did not get this right in execution. But what they had right is that rights come from God and are recognized by government. So that is key. Anybody that says that, that our rights come from the government, they don't. They need to read the founding documents of our country.

Host/Interviewer (24:23)

That's right.

Pastor 1 (24:24)

We have certain inalienable rights. All right. And by the way, these days, this, this, this is a buzzword. Ready? These days, the group of people that think our rights come from God and not the government are classified as Christian nationalists. So if that's what that word means, which I think it can mean about 40 things right now, but if that's the definition, sign me up, right? Me and all the founders, okay, so they got that part right. And because of that they've thought every individual is an image bearer of God and therefore that image bearer of God had certain inalienable rights. Yeah, okay. Now in their application, they got it totally wrong out of the gate and it took a long time for it to ever get right. But the seeds of them getting us getting it right were planted in those two ideas. And then the way that was supposed to manifest itself was life. Dude, Praise God for life, liberty. Praise God for liberty and the pursuit of happiness. What a swing and miss. What a swing and miss, man. I mean, come on, dude. And I know you could take me to, you know, whatever his name is, John Wright, whatever the guy's name is, to talk about all that that meant. But still, what that has manifested itself in is the pursuit of happiness. And happiness is only rooted in happenings. That's it. Originally they were going to say the pursuit of private property, and then they went with pursuit of happiness instead. In our country, the two have meant the same thing, which is a swing and a miss. The gospel is for life, right? You lay yours down because Jesus laid his down for you and you find true life, liberty. No doubt about it, it is for freedom that we have been set free. But not the pursuit of happiness, but joy. Because happiness is found in happenings and joy is rooted in Jesus, regardless of the happenings. There is actually not a lot of happy in the Gospel of Luke. There's not. It's going to end with a crucifixion, by the way. And Luke gets, he writes this Book because the church post resurrection is being persecuted. And he's trying to give an orderly account of how the whole church got started. And he's interviewing eyewitnesses of people who saw Jesus crucified and the apostles brutalized. We ain't talking about happy. And yet in all of that, there is joy because he has seen above the horizon and he has seen this angelic choir show up and say, I got good news of great joy for all the people, that there's a redeemer. And you can believe he's going to come and make all things new because he showed up the first time, did what he said, came out of the grave. So you can trust that he's going to come back.

Host/Interviewer (27:13)

Yeah. That all people. We say it a lot because we're moving over all people. But to. To a Jewish audience, it hits them different. Right. Because probably their understanding is that, no, no, this people.

Pastor 1 (27:28)

Yeah. Nuh.

Host/Interviewer (27:30)

Yeah. So. So how does this news of great joy break down the barriers of. Of the all people?

Pastor 1 (27:37)

Yeah. We'll talk about this ton next year when we study Matthew. So if you go all the way, all the way back, like Genesis 12 and God chooses Abraham not because Abraham's awesome, but because God is. And he says, I am going to bless you that you will be a blessing to all nations. And over time, the people of God, the Hebrew people would say, oh, we've been blessed. Period. And there was a big old. So that. And they just missed the so that. It's what the Pharisees are about. It's what the Sadducees are about. It's what they had turned the temple courts into. Think about this, man. Of all the spots in the temple court that they decided to make bank off of, they. It's the court of the Gentiles. And God's like, the whole point is that you would be a city on a hill, like to the world, so the whole world would know me as the king, you dummies. And then so Jesus gets angry at this.

Host/Interviewer (28:31)

All right.

Pastor 1 (28:33)

John the Baptist says the same thing, by the way. Very similar. His declaration when Jesus shows up to get baptized is, behold, just like they said, the Lamb of God who's come to take away the sin of the entire world. And I'm telling you, the Jewish person that. That didn't get it, that was just stuck in his own kingdom, thought, well, no, no, no, no, no. Don't you mean another lamb of God is here to cover the sin of the Jewish people until next year on the day of atonement and, and John the Baptist and the angels are like, no, no, no, no. That was just a foreshadowing of him. And here he is.

Host/Interviewer (29:09)

Yeah. Pastor 1 I bet you've got a pretty unique perspective on the way that the gospel impacts peoples, regardless of backgrounds, languages. I mean, your, your position in the past was to oversee many, many different tribes and tongues and nations.

Pastor Ona (29:30)

Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (29:31)

And so does anything come to mind?

Pastor Ona (29:33)

Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (29:34)

Regarding the all people, when you think.

Pastor Ona (29:35)

About the story of South Africa, you know, for many, many years a country under the law of apartheid, we pronounce it apartheid. And this law was basically segregating people by the color of their skin. And then, you know, some people having access to adequate healthcare, education, economic opportunities, and others not. And so, you know, 1994 rolls up, there's a new democracy and a new constitution is written. And so now everybody can be everywhere and have access to everything. There was still this thing that was happening in churches where still very much segregated. And, and you go, if I read the scriptures, if we read the scriptures and we see that the good news is for all people, and you're right that God has been forming a family for himself from all people from the very beginning. That's always been the plan. And so when you read it and you go, but then why is this not happening in such a diverse context? And that's realizing, I mean, Ephesians 2, you know, verses 1 to 10, Paul lays out the gospel, he lays out the good news. He's like, hey, here's who you were. But God, you know, here's what he's done. And then the rest of the chapters to go, well, here's a direct implication of it, is that now all people can come together. And I love how Luke puts it here, good news of great joy that will be for all people. Good news brings people together.

Pastor 1 (30:56)

Amen.

Pastor Ona (30:56)

We know this. I mean, we go to a wedding and there's, there's two sides, you know, the bride and the groom, and we don't really know each other. And then, you know, we do the whole thing and they say, I do, and they kiss and then we go, you know, we have a massive party. It doesn't take too long before everybody's on the dance floor. Yeah, it's like, I don't know you, I don't know you. But we're having such a good time because of this good news that has brought all people together, whether it's a sports game and your team wins. I mean, I don't know the people to my left and to my right, I showed up on my own. But when that final whistle blows, man, it's like we've known each other for years. It's good. Good news brings people together. And so it begs the question, if we're not seeing that, then what news are we putting out there? You know what I mean? It's something we must ask. And. And so for the fact that Luke, you know, he. He says that we see it here and the shepherds are being told it, that God's. This is going to change everything about everything, about everything. I still think many of them were not prepared for it. I love that. I love that the gospel does that.

Pastor 1 (31:56)

Yeah. I think too, though, it's important because unity around Christ is the goal, not uniformity. And even unity amongst one another is not the goal. It's unity around Christ. He says that it's. It will be good news of great joy for all the people, not of all the people. And sometimes, oh, my gosh, the amount of atrocities in the past are too long to even list. Right. And so we're not trying to ignore them. We're not trying to gloss over those things. But then the pendulum can swing too far the other way. And the goal is not. Not justification, sanctification, and glorification in Christ Jesus. We're just trying to create this bouquet of humanity for humanity's sake. And, man, when you make secondary things primary, even if they are. Even if they are primary outcomes of the gospel, then even from a good heart, then things get wonky real quick, man.

Host/Interviewer (32:59)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (32:59)

And people move away from the thing that actually unifies, which is this good news of great joy for all people. So something that, I mean, around here in 2020 with COVID and race riots and political division and all of that. Dude. Oh, it was. I mean, you talk earlier about what God can use whatever he wants for his own good and glory. God used those days in the life of 1122 to sift out a whole bunch of people that were not here on kingdom business, on the right and the left, politically speaking. You know what I mean? And what is incredible is we just put our nose down and continue to say, listen, man, this is who we are. We're a movement for all people to discover and deepen relationship with Jesus. We're gospel people. This is what we do. Life, death, resurrection, return of Jesus, its implications. This is what we're doing. A lot of criticism on both sides, like, you're not doing enough or you're doing too. Whatever. Okay. I was like, okay, if you're with me, it's all three little bears, man. If you're a leader, it's all three little bearsS, no matter what you do. Some people say it's too hot, too cold. Some people are like, that's right. I'm like, all right. If you're. That's right. Then you're with us. What's really cool from my seat, I mean, I get to stand on the stage and at least see one campus every week. Is the growth in a lot more of the all people, at least ethnically speaking, has done nothing but increase. When we kept the gospel centered and talked about all of its implications in the way you do life, the way you do money, the way you do friendships, in the way you do church. Right. As opposed to taking any one of those implications and saying, this is the goal.

Pastor Ona (34:41)

I mean, in revelation, you know, when this whole thing comes to an end and John gets given a vision of that, you know, it's. The focus is not, oh, look how different we are. And look, man, you speak this language. Oh, this is amazing. Like, that's not the focus. He describes it, he tells of it, but he's like, well, what are they doing there? Well, they are focused on the one who is seated on the throne. And we do that now. It's not a wonder. It is a now reality that we do.

Host/Interviewer (35:08)

One of the things that I love, that many theologians have talked about is that in the Old Testament, there are so many culturally distinct instructions for how the people of God were to worship.

Pastor 1 (35:20)

Yeah, it was. And then prescriptive.

Host/Interviewer (35:22)

And then in the New Testament, those are completely absent.

Pastor 1 (35:25)

Correct.

Host/Interviewer (35:25)

And because the, The. The pinnacle of the message of God and the kingdom of God is trans cultural, you know, it doesn't. It's not limited inside of. You got to look, got to look a certain way, got to sound a certain way, got to be a certain way. No, no, it actually goes above and beyond all those things.

Pastor 1 (35:40)

Yeah. But a big part of that is because of the theology of Emmanuel.

Host/Interviewer (35:44)

Yes.

Pastor 1 (35:44)

So it changes. So in the garden, Emmanuel was God walking around in the garden. In the Old Testament, Emmanuel, God with us was in this. Sitting on the throne of this box in the holy of holies, inside the temple, amongst God's chosen people for the same reason to still draw all nations unto. In the four Gospels, Emmanuel is literally sitting over there by the campfire. Like, there he is, man, six feet away from you. That is Emmanuel. Then post Pentecost, Emmanuel, I'm sitting here with you is inside of every believer. So now. So now what is a worship service? Well, in one culture, in one place, like in the city of Jerusalem, with all Jewish people in order that the world may know that he is God. Here is the prescription of how we do it. All right? Now, when. With the dispersed spirit of God living on the inside of every believer, inside all kind of cultural context, it would be silly to give some kind of cultural instruction on what songs to sing. What do you mean? You think God likes Chinese songs better than South African songs? Like, what are you talking about? No, no, no, no, no, no. So now you've got descriptions of the type of worship God is looking for. And I'm not just talking about singing. It's like, here's the offices, here's how you order, folks. Here's some things that are very essential. But what about this particular detail? He's like, yeah, work it out, work it out. Yeah. Ready, go.

Host/Interviewer (37:15)

Yeah. Something that many missionaries have gotten wrong, bro.

Pastor 1 (37:19)

I think it's so funny. I mean, God bless the. God bless the Southern Baptists. We love them. We partner with them. They've sent more missionaries around the world at least in the last 100 years. Maybe anybody, right? Planted more churches, bro. You ever been, I know you have. For Southern American to go to East Africa to a Southern Baptist church, and you see people dressing Southern Baptist and singing Southern Baptist hymns. And then there's oftentimes this part where they're not singing songs written by Europeans from the 1500s, but they sing in Swahili, like, now we're getting somewhere.

Pastor Ona (37:55)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (37:55)

My favorite story of this that I just love to tell on repeat is some missionaries go to Africa and all the women are topless, you know, and the guys are like, what are we doing, dude? They're just functionally able to feed their kids. All right, no problem. So the missionaries send all the women T shirts. Got to cover these things up. Girls, they show back up on their next trip, all the women have the T shirts on. They've just cut holes out so that they can still access what they need to access in order to feed their babies.

Pastor Ona (38:23)

That is deep.

Pastor 1 (38:24)

Talk about like, we're not trying to make. In that case, you're not trying to make Baptists, you're trying to make like disciples. So our. And bro, we stand on the shoulders of the faithful men and women that done the William Carey's of the world. The missionaries that just. All they did is this is what we know church looks like, you know? Yeah, it's amazing grace. First, third and fifth stanza. It's an offering. Okay. Praise God, whatever. And they took that all over the place. Our strategy these days is to put pastor schools in strategic locations where you raise up local indigenous men who've been called to be pastors and then launch them to shepherd the people of God. And we become a resource. We're much more like a aircraft carrier, you know, where we're just fueling up folks to go to the front lines all over the place. And then our mission trips and everything else is just to support those local churches.

Pastor Ona (39:21)

I love that.

Pastor 1 (39:22)

Local, autonomous, indigenously led churches. And culturally, we're like, y' all got to figure that out. Here's what the Bible says. Okay. But the way that plays out in your culture, this is why we have pastors and elders in your local context. We're not running the 11:22 play right in Tanzania.

Pastor Ona (39:41)

Yeah, yeah. And you can miss out on God's creative genius and all of that.

Pastor 1 (39:45)

Correct.

Pastor Ona (39:46)

You know, the. The richness of the essence. It blows my mind when that happens. Like, you show up at a place and you're like, this feels like something. Like you said, southern baptism. This is kind of strange. Would you wear a tie on a normal day? Why? It's so hot in here, you know?

Pastor 1 (40:01)

Yeah. Or one of the things. Yeah. That'll challenge me. Like, I was in Uganda at a church, you know, like a. The building was. I mean, we built it with like red clay bricks a bunch of years ago. Then I go back to preach and, you know, we don't do an offering time here. And so it's all lights and shadows. So hopefully we. We. We're nailing the first Corinthians part about don't give her compulsion. But I remember in this context, which was not a context of plenty, but of scarcity, you know, and at the offering time, I saw this lady dance her chicken down to the front with its tied up legs and lay it at the altar. A live chicken. And for the rest of this service, I'm watching this chicken and I just thought we could learn a lot from that. So one of the major parts of their worship experience was just bringing to God their first and best, not privately on an app. And I know some people are like, yeah, but doesn't the Bible say, don't let your right hand? No, that's in giving to the poor. It doesn't. It. It doesn't distinguish that now, you know, you can't be given for show anywhere.

Pastor Ona (41:12)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (41:13)

But there's some beautiful, beautiful parts of worship. Experiences from all kind of different cultures.

Host/Interviewer (41:17)

That you'll see beautiful he made it all. Pastor Ona, in your message, you bring out these characteristics that these shepherds demonstrate, you know, talking about their being ready. They're recognizing their need. I want to talk about the third one is how they respond, how they act in obedience. And as I was thinking about that, the, you know, here's a group of people who respond with fear, and somehow the message that they're given overcomes that fear and leads them to action. Pastor Joby, you say that that's what faith is. It leads us to action. So what does it take for. Especially a man or, you know, somebody like this who's overwhelmed with fear. What does it take them to spring into action and obedience like this?

Pastor Ona (42:00)

I think it's first recognizing the difference between earthly fear and the fear of the Lord. You know, there's this. This holy reverence and. And then recognizing who's the one that's, you know, giving the command, who's the one that's. And then responding rightly to it, you know, so there's this obedience that goes, he's in charge. He is who he says he is. And this is what he has called us to do. And so we go. There's no debate. You know, there's no subcommittees that need to be put together to figure out, should we do this, should we not? It's like, hey, here's what the word says, and here's what we should do. I tend to think of it this way, that there is the distance between, you know, what you hear and what you do reveals the depth of your faith. And so, wow, the scripture is, I mean, unbelievably clear on the fact that, yes, this is what God says, and so, therefore, this is what I should do. Now, I may not have everything together. I may not have all the pieces together, but I still take that step of faith. I've heard you say it many times. It's taking that next step in the direction of the good shepherd.

Pastor 1 (43:06)

That's right.

Pastor Ona (43:07)

That's all you got to do. And so just for men as well, it's like, hey, I may not know everything, but what is my next step of obedience? Is it joining a discipleship group? Is it coming up to the front and crying out to God, recognizing my need? I talk a lot about this, that, you know, confession is courage. The most courageous thing that you could probably do is confess is to confess your need for a savior. That could be your next step of obedience in recognizing who God is. And so I think, yes. Is there moments where I'm like, I'm unsure of what's gonna happen. And I don't have all the, you know, the data. I don't have all the information. Yeah, that happens all the time. But what I do know is that God is seated on his throne and he's fully in control. And then all the other things that flow from that. He is good, he is loving, he's compassionate. I just feel like when we, when we don't know that, then we're gripped by.

Pastor 1 (44:10)

Yeah. One of the things, Vicki, I try to do when I'm reading, especially a very familiar passage. I mean, you know, the moment you start in those days, the decree went out, I can just, you know, you see Charlie, you see Linus and everybody pulling up. I can, I don't, I don't have the whole thing memorized, but it's not far off.

Host/Interviewer (44:28)

Right.

Pastor 1 (44:30)

And the familiarity can just, you can just miss so much. So one of the things I try to do, I try to do my own little version of the chosen in my mind and just ask the spirit of God to give me the right kind of imagination to imagine the kind of conversations that may have happened just based on my own experience. Walking with the Lord. So there is shepherds, not a shepherd. So here's some boys, young men, and the angel of the Lord shows up and says, behold, I bring you good news. Go and see. And let's go. Let's say they go, are we going to do this or we're not going to do this? You know, there's one guy's like, we got to. What do you mean? The angel said, there's always that person. There's probably somebody going, bro, let's run. And maybe a shepherd goes where he didn't meet us in the temple, right? Like, if he can find us in this field, he can find us in that field. And that field, in that field. Where are we going to go, bro? Like, I think he's chased this down. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (45:29)

One guy half asleep is like, just go back to bed.

Pastor 1 (45:31)

So here's what it reminds me of. Elder Rusty was talking about this at an elder led prayer. I mean, this was 10 years ago or something. And he was talking about a particular sin in his life, right? And it occurred to him, he, he, he wanted God to see and bless this area of my life. I want you to bless my marriage, I want you to bless my business. I wanted you to bless my family. And I don't want you to even see this area of my life that I'm ashamed of. And he Realized how ridiculous that sound. That idea could be the driver, which is a really good. Like Psalm139, where am I going to go from your presence? If you chase me down here, you can chase me down wherever you want. And so that is rightly ordering, though the fear of the Lord that the hounds of heaven have chased me down. And obedience, not only is it the right step of faith, it is the logical next thing that I need to do if God is telling me to do it. And especially, listen, your rate of obedience only goes as fast as your level of trust.

Host/Interviewer (46:40)

That's right.

Pastor Ona (46:41)

That's good.

Pastor 1 (46:41)

So I like, if your dad is abusive and he reaches out his hand, you probably flinch. If your dad is a loving father and he reaches out his hand, you take his hand.

Host/Interviewer (46:54)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (46:55)

And so we have a good dad. He loves his kids. The. And the best thing you can do is do what he tells you to do. I love to look through the Scriptures at the number of things that may not make sense in the natural, but a miracle was on the other side of some obedience.

Host/Interviewer (47:09)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (47:09)

Like the, you know, in Acts, silver and gold. Have I done what I have given to you? The Bible does not say that when. When Paul Peter says, arise and walk, he doesn't walk until he reaches out his hands. Or John 2 with the water to wine. It's not until the sermons do what Jesus says to do. Or John 9, when he washes his face. I mean, there's all of these things where, like, they would have missed out on the good news of great joy for all the people if they weren't obedient to do what God told them to do, which was go witness the Messiah, the Christ who had been born.

Pastor Ona (47:41)

And I mean, sometimes I can sometimes try to, you know, I'll tell myself, no, I just want to think through this, you know, I want to make sure that what I heard is legit. Let me study it. Let me look at some passages. Let me get a commentary. Let me look at the end of the day, delayed disobedience is just dressed up disobedience. You know, a delayed obedience is just dressed up disobedience. And it's like, no, no, no, no. You know, it's very clear. This is what he said. Now go do. And. And so we just. We need to be mindful of that. We need to catch ourselves when we're thinking. Oh, no, I got to think through it. I got it now, you know.

Host/Interviewer (48:19)

Yeah. You know, there's a line. I don't know the psalm. There's A line in the psalm, it says, just like the eyes of a maid servant look to the hand of her master, her eyes look to you. And it's. The picture is that there's a person waiting in the corner. Like, imagine a king is at his table, there's a person waiting in the corner, just like, kind of like at the end of the service, you know, the MD looking at you. Like looking to see if as soon as, like the hand goes up, it's like, boom, I'm already there.

Pastor Ona (48:48)

Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (48:48)

You know, that's the kind of urgency and immediately we want to have that trust, you know, and it is a great test, you know, because if there's hesitancy, it means I must not have that trust.

Pastor Ona (48:58)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (48:59)

You know, that's. There's often a misunderstood verse when people, that they'll say, well, I'm just waiting on the Lord, you know, that's not what that word means. When the Bible says, blessed are those who wait upon the Lord for they will mount up with wings like eels. And all the things it means to wait with an expectancy. It's the same kind of word that when God says to Cain, sin is crouching at your door. It's the same thing. It's waiting for an opportunity to pounce. Honestly, it's like stand hunting when you're deer hunting. It may look like you're just sitting there, but you, with great expectation and alertness are waiting for the moment where you get to do your thing. So to wait on the Lord is an eager expectation for the good shepherd who promised he's going to tell us what to do. So for you to take your next step. And if you don't know what to do, just do the Great Commission and the Great Commandment. In the meantime, just take the gospel to all nations and love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and your neighbor as yourself. And you will be positioned to mount up with wings like eagles, to run and not grow weary, to walk and not grow faint.

Pastor Ona (50:08)

Come on, Christian, waiting is not passive.

Pastor 1 (50:11)

Right, right, right, right.

Pastor Ona (50:12)

It's not passive. It's when people come and go. I don't know what my purpose is. I, you know, I'm waiting on the Lord. I'm like, no, no, no, he's. He's already told you. Yeah, love him with everything and go love people. That's it, you know, he's already said it.

Host/Interviewer (50:23)

Yeah. Now your last point is that they returned to their work different. And I, I noticed that too, because they, they glorify God. But they don't say, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to leave everything. I'm going to stop being a shepherd, I'm going to go be a priest, or I'm going to go be a missionary. They. They return. I guess they return back to the field. Yeah. Transformed. You know what? Why is that the proper response? Return to your. Your domain changed.

Pastor Ona (50:51)

Because an encounter with the Lord leads to worship. And here's where I think many of us, we miss it. We tend to think worship is just singing my favorite Christian song or singing on a Sunday. It is that and so much more. And so when you have encountered the Lord, it changes everything about everything, and rightly so. They didn't go on this mission trip. And it's not to say that the Lord cannot call you to do that, but for many of us, it's, well, let me go back to what I was doing as a completely different person who acts differently, responds differently, talks differently, that people should look to you and go, there is something significantly different about you. And the only response that you give is, yes, it's Jesus Christ. And so that continues. It's the continual worship of the one that you have encountered who has wrecked your life in such a beautiful way. And that's what we see here. Cause I think so many of us, we go, okay, you know, then I gotta go to seminary, then I gotta go to the. And again, that might be you. That might be your story. But for many of us, it's, go back to your job, go back to your family, go back to your marriage. And what comes out of your mouth now is different. It's a worship of the Lord. And so how you talk to your kids and how you talk to your wife and how you talk to your employees, how you talk to the person at the grocery store, man, all of it is just an act of worship. It's a sweet fragrance to the one who's on the throne.

Pastor 1 (52:24)

And look at what they talked about. Not things they heard about, not things that they read about, not philosophies about all that they had heard and seen. I mean, to the folks that are like, oh, I would love to do that, but I don't really know what I'm talking about, you know, what you've heard and seen. So, I mean, even if you came to church this weekend and you experienced the Lord, are you telling people about what you've heard and seen? Think about this. In Revelation 12, the revelator says, and they the church will overcome by the blood of the Lamb, the word of their testimony.

Pastor Ona (52:58)

Come on.

Pastor 1 (52:58)

And they love not their lives, even unto death. That the word of just declaring what you have heard and seen is in partnership with the effective work of the blood of the Lamb and the laying down of the life of the martyr in order for the kingdom to come. That's a really big deal.

Host/Interviewer (53:18)

And Pastor Ona, you said you. Doesn't. It doesn't take an expert to share your testimony.

Pastor Ona (53:22)

No.

Host/Interviewer (53:22)

You know, you don't have to have a degree. And Pastor, I think that there's probably some men listening, men and women, but who think, well, the most, the most spiritual thing in the world for me to do is to go be a pastor or missionary. I have this friend who's just a baller banker, and he's like, I just feel like maybe I should just sell it all and go, Pastor this little. I'm just like, no, no, listen, you need to be in those rooms. You need to be right testifying to the Lord because there are those people and conversations. You have access to that that nobody else does, you know? So what word would you give from this text to go back into those domains?

Pastor 1 (53:58)

Well, Ephesians 4 makes it sound like when you go into. When. When your W2 says church name on it, that you're not in the ministry anymore because the, the positions given in the church are to equip the saints for the work of the ministry. So again, back to that. I mean, it's more like aircraft carrier thing. Don't you want to be like a fighter pilot out on the front lines of ministry? Not, not just the refuelers back at the, at the ship. That's what we are. We're just kind of the refuelers back here now in our own personal lives, we need to have our own personal ministry of evangelism and care and all the things. But, but vocationally, the saints are in the ministry way more than the, Than the clergy.

Pastor Ona (54:46)

Yeah. And sharing your testimony, like, it's, I mean, it's. You're just telling people what Jesus has done.

Pastor 1 (54:51)

That's it. What you've seen and heard.

Host/Interviewer (54:53)

Perfect.

Pastor Ona (54:53)

And, and it's, It's. It's wild to me. Like, how do you know? I mean, you hear this illustration a lot. But how you know someone. I don't know if people still do CrossFit. Is that still a thing? But how you know someone does CrossFit? Well, they'll tell you. How do you know someone's a vegan? They'll tell you.

Pastor 1 (55:04)

Oh, yeah.

Pastor Ona (55:04)

You know how Someone's a Christian. And sometimes it's like, it's crickets. It's like, wait, how do I know that? And so I, I, you know, I simply ask people and ask myself this. I don't, I don't ask people questions that I haven't asked myself. And that is. When was the last time you shared the gospel? When was the last time you told someone about Jesus? You say, he has changed everything. He is the love of your life. He has saved you. He is. He is your Lord. But when last did you. Because I'll, I'll. We'll talk about sports all day, every day. And I know, I know the stats. I mean, I know how much some of these guys weigh, how fast they are. I know it all. But it's like, okay, but when did you last tell someone that, hey, do you know Jesus? I'd like to tell you about someone who changed my life.

Pastor 1 (55:45)

Yeah. Yeah. And one of the things with sharing your faith, because sometimes, again, I think guys hear us and like, well, of course y' all can, because you're pastors and you know how to do that. But when you hear the phrase share your faith, I think it could be many different avenues. It could be share an invitation to church. Like, hey, man, would you want to come with me to church? That's cool. Sometimes it share. Like, sometimes you're your own little Billy Graham. Like, do the whole thing right? You're created by God for God. Sin broke it, Jesus fixed it. Put your faith in him. You'll be redeemed. Okay? And you bring newly saved Christians with you to church. Praise God for that. Sometimes just sharing your story, especially if your life has been changed recently.

Host/Interviewer (56:27)

Right.

Pastor 1 (56:28)

Or another way is if anybody ever shares a pain point in their life, that is an on ramp for you to share your testimony and how God is faithful in pain.

Pastor Ona (56:38)

It's good.

Pastor 1 (56:39)

Sometimes you share a burden. The best way to do this is to just say, how can I pray for you? Because I don't care what people think about God. They'll always take prayer just in case. And then sometimes you just share another cup of coffee because this is a person, not a project. And the spirit of God hadn't wooed them yet, you know, and there's not like one end all, be all I am. I try to be really sensitive to the move of the spirit in my life as to where that person is and how God has aligned it in my intersection with my one mores right now, you know? So the last I asked this morning, I went to the gym early because I got meetings all day. I'm not going to be able to work out. And so I went extra early and one of my one mores was there early. And I just said, when are you going to come see me next door? Now, I didn't. There was no full gospel presentation or whatever, but he's been on a trip. He said, at least in theory, he's going to attend 1122, you know, and I just said, hey, man, when you go, come see me. And I. And I really did. When I saw him, I literally prayed. I was like, lord, should I say something now? And I felt like, well, why not? And again, that wasn't a full time. That wasn't like the whole explanation. But you just got to be sensitive to those things.

Pastor Ona (57:52)

Yeah, I love, I love that. Because what I hear is you're intentional. There is intentionality here. So. So the last point in the sermon is that, is that they. They went back transformed. But it kind of circles back all the way to the first point. It's because you're alert, you're ready. You're asking the question. There's, there's. There's urgency and expectation that God could do something. And so, Lord, what. What should I be doing? It could be the invitation. It could be being aware of someone's burden and say, how can I pray for you?

Host/Interviewer (58:20)

Yeah.

Pastor Ona (58:20)

And sadly, many of us are. We're just not alert. We're just not. We're not ready. And so when it happens, you miss it. So many of us could miss. I mean, it's wild to think of this way, but we could miss the burning bush.

Pastor 1 (58:33)

Well, think about it. I mean, one of the first things that God says through the burning bush is mo to Moses, take off your shoes because you're on holy ground. He's been there for 40 years. I bet he's like, did it just get holy? Has it been holy the whole time?

Pastor Ona (58:46)

Come on.

Pastor 1 (58:47)

Did I have. I've been walking by, like, help me understand this. Wow. How many times are we walking on holy ground? For 40 years and we didn't realize it.

Pastor Ona (58:54)

Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (58:55)

I think that's a prayer that God really, really wants to answer. Oh, yeah. Give me an opportunity. I think he's more interested in using you to help save somebody than you are.

Pastor Ona (59:06)

Yeah.

Host/Interviewer (59:07)

So when you say, lord, please give me the opportunity. Help me to see it. I think he wants to answer that prayer.

Pastor Ona (59:11)

Yeah.

Pastor 1 (59:11)

The other thing is very, very practical. Team up on people. I do this literally in the gym a week ago. A couple guys that have gotten saved in the past year were talking to me in the gym and they were telling me about, I mean, dude, these are the poster children for what we're trying to do here. These dudes are lost as a ball in high weeds, man. And they're all swole and yolked up, you know, and think they're awesome. And then they get saved here. And now they're like getting married and raising their kids here. They're doing all the things, you know, and I tell them, I'm like, hey, that guy and that guy and that guy. I just want you to know, these are three of my one mores. Let's team up on them. Let's go. It's good because sometimes what will happen is the guy that's getting teamed up on is like, you're the third person that's invited me. I think God's trying to tell me something. He is. He is trying to tell you something. You should listen and show up. So Shaw, Maxwell, and Scott Batch and I used to do this when we coached little league baseball. We would literally. We were the three coaches for our team. And then we would just target the families and be like, all right, let's go for this family next. Well, now all of those, you know, the majority of them are all deacons at our church.

Host/Interviewer (60:20)

Now, sometimes it takes different people, too. I was talking to somebody recently and he's like, I'm trying to share my faith with my dad. And that's just so hard.

Pastor 1 (60:26)

So hard.

Host/Interviewer (60:27)

Like, maybe you need to bring him around other people that he might be more willing to listen to, you know, could be that. Well, I think that's all the time we have. Thank you, Pastor. An word. Yeah. And Pastor, any closing remarks or.

Pastor 1 (60:42)

Welcome, welcome, welcome. All right, man, I'm so glad you're part of this crew. God has been preparing you your whole life and our church for its whole life for you to be here to do what God wants to do in and through you. For us. Welcome to the family. We love you. We're glad you're here. It is cool to know that the same God of the universe that interrupted these shepherds lives, interrupted your life, moved you halfway around the world.

Pastor Ona (61:09)

Amen.

Pastor 1 (61:10)

Because he has good news of great joy for all the people. And you are going to be a herald to the ends of the earth through what God is doing in and through you here in 1122. So welcome. Would you close us in prayer?

Pastor Ona (61:24)

I'd love to. Let's pray. Father, thank you so much. Just for who you are. You're good, you're kind, you're merciful, slow to anger. We are loved more than we could ever imagine. And whenever we doubt that, we are to look to the finished work of your son, Jesus Christ. And so we thank you. We thank you for opportunities like this where we can gather together and dive into your word with the sole purpose of wanting to see you for who you are. And so, God, I pray for those who are watching and listening. Lord, I pray that you would have a powerful encounter with them, that after this time they would move in a completely different way. Holy Spirit, we're asking for you to be with those who need you right now, in this very moment. You know what they need and so meet their needs in this time. And then, God, we pray that the gospel would continue to go to the ends of the world, that one day we will stand and we will give testimony after testimony after testimony of all, all that you have done. God, we love you, we praise you, we give you all the glory. In Jesus beautiful name we pray. Amen.

Pastor 1 (62:33)

Thank you for listening to the podcast the End.

Pastor Joby Martin (62:41)

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