C (3:37)

So no one knows the. The interaction of the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit, lavishing love on one another in one essence and being, being God, but three distinct persons. Okay, Jesus doesn't even say, let me talk to my dad and see what I can do for you. You know what I mean? He doesn't consider equality with God something to be grasped. He doesn't. I mean, don't you think, like in Matthew 24, when the disciples are like, hey, tell us about the end of the world. He's like, all right, get ready. You know, wars, rumors, wars, the abomination, desolation. And then he goes, but no one knows the hour, not even the sun. Don't you think if he really was like, come on, dad, you could trust me. Just tell me. There's surely there's some negotiation there or something. I don't know how it works. None of us do. He. Does it even do that. He just is like, I stay in my lane. I'm the Son, that lane's the Father. I willfully submit to the will of the Father. And it's by his power that he holds all things together. And he's preeminent. And he judges the quick and the dead. And it's around the throne of Jesus Christ in heaven that we sing. Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty.

D (4:56)

And all authority in heaven and earth.

C (4:58)

Is given to him, to Him. And yet he says, that's above my pay grade.

D (5:01)

And he also says, the Father is greater Than I correct. I can't wrap my head around that. That makes my fuzzy head explode.

C (5:07)

So, yeah.

B (5:11)

Yeah, it's pretty wild. Now, we, of course, talked about strength when it comes to men, because that's the series that we're in.

C (5:20)

Yeah.

B (5:21)

And. But if. But we have the mom in this story. And I would categorize her as a strong woman. I mean, she is the one walking up to Jesus, airing her opinions and questions as some strong women. I'm just hypothetically speaking, maybe some I know would have the boldness to do. And so where does that. Where do with the strength of women? How does that fall into what we're talking about?

C (5:46)

So this is not a zero sum game. This is not a seesaw. It's not. In order for men to be strong, women should be weak. When Peter says that you treat your wife as the weaker vessel, it really. A better Greek translation of that word is delicate. It's like you handle with care. Okay? They're not to be roughhoused like a boy. They're not to be. You don't jostle around with their feelings. This is. They're not Tupperware. They are fine china. That's what that means. It's instructing husbands on how to treat their wives. Okay? So this is not a zero sum game. Women are also called to be strong. There's no doubt about it. I mean, if you look at the Proverbs 31, Woman, bro, she. It's just strength. It actually says that she is clothed in strength. Okay, so it's not. In order for the man to be strong, the woman has to be weak. That is not true. It usually manifests itself in different ways. That's it. I mean, you know, one of the things we talked about is a strong man as a persevering man that must be able to endure pain. Well, there's nobody stronger than a woman when it comes down to that. I mean, physiologically, you know that, right? Like, yes, God wired it well. You know it firsthand. I mean, there's no greater example of this than childbirth. Right.

D (6:58)

And.

C (6:58)

And I mean, it's half a joke, but it's only half a joke because it's true. You know, if it was up to the men, then it would have been a good one generation, and then it would have been over.

D (7:06)

Can't, Abel. We'd have called it quits.

C (7:07)

Yeah, that's it. Like, all right, I'm out. That hurt. But it's. But it's different, you know, it's different. But yeah, women are called to be strong. I mean, there's no doubt about it.

B (7:18)

Yeah. You know, the video tonight that played before the sermon is this guy, Rick hall, and he's very strong physically. And when this little, like, behind the scenes. If you want to know how we plan our sermon series, we get in a room and we study the Bible and we. We talk about the people that we know in the life of our church, and we try and match up as best we can someone whose story kind of falls in line with where we're going in the sermon. And this week in particular, we said. We said, okay, let's start thinking who are the men, you know, in our church who are strong for and tender with?

D (7:56)

So.

B (7:57)

And we kept saying, like, come on, guys. Who are the, like, crazy ripped dads who, like, have daughters who make them cry at every turn? And then I'm watching the video tonight, and I just love when it all comes together and he just immediately starts crying. His wife didn't have to say anything. He just immediately starts crying. But let's talk a little bit about.

C (8:15)

What does that mean?

D (8:15)

He said, I hate you all so much.

B (8:17)

I know. The strong four. And tender. And tender with.

C (8:20)

Yeah, that. Yeah. Jesus is both lion and lamb. And, you know, I think if the church has aired in the last 50 years, it's all lamb, no lion. So it's not either or. He's not sometimes lying and sometimes lamb. He is the lion and the lamb. He just always rightly knows, like, which foot to lead with. And that's what a godly man does.

D (8:45)

The.

C (8:45)

The trap we fall into is what Jesus is talking about. The gentiles have power, and Lord it over them. It shall not be so with you. So what often happens is the man, the dad, the husband, knows he's bigger, has the loudest voice in most cases, makes the money and all that kind of stuff. Not every time, but, you know, and then leverages that to get what he wants. And Jesus is like, that's not how we do it. We do it the other way. Your big muscles and your loud voice and your aggression is actually supposed to be for their benefit, not for your benefit. And so I need you to be tough with the world to protect them and be tender with them. What most of us fall into the trap of is we're tough with them. We're, like, fussing at our wife because we don't get what we want. We're fussing our kids because we don't get what we want. And then we're like a jellyfish with the world just letting them invade our homes with its own norms and culture and make sense. And we've got to flip that upside down. This is, this is the first time in our series, you know, the first, the first week is like, all right, so what went wrong? So we're just trying to get people gospel here. And then it's like, hey, watch out. Don't get taken out of the fight or everybody will be defenseless. And then we're describing spiritual warfare. This is the, really the first time where we just kind of turn it completely upside down. Like, you think greatness as defined by you is power, prestige, possession, position, passion. And Jesus is like, actually it's not any of those things. Let me flip it upside down. It's about submission. It's about service. It's about, you know, that's what, that's what true strength is.

B (10:34)

Yeah. And it is, it's kind of the, the turning point in the book even too, and in the sermon series. Because now if I think about the weeks we have left. Be a godly husband, be a godly dad, Let all you do be done in love. Yeah, we're kind of take, we kind of took that turn.

C (10:53)

The real butt kicker starts in this one. Yeah, like I. Honestly, man, there's two of those I'm, I'm really wired for or whatever. It is like God made me this way. And the spirit of God moves in my life in powerful ways in regards to my life is rightly ordered. Focus on Jesus a lot. I'm Sabbath, you know what I mean? And enduring pain, you know, no problem. For the protection of my family, for the growth of his church, no problem. You know, I don't do fear, you know, these things. But dude, when it comes to humble and serving, I mean, I am not good. The only reason I'm not a hypocrite is because I just admit I suck. And so the self admitted hypocrite is not a hypocrite. It doesn't mean he's good at it. It just means he's not trying to act like I'm, I'm not. I mean, I can submit to authority, no problem. You know, I have no problem submitting to the authority of the elders or Pastor Jerry, you know, when he was my pastor. But the willfully taking the lowly position without being reminded is not it, it does not come natural to me whatsoever. I mean, whatsoever. It's not good.

B (12:11)

What do you think over there, Mr. Charles Martin?

D (12:13)

I think the older I get, the, the older I get, I think the easier it comes. And part of the reason I was thinking about this in the last couple of weeks, I turned 56 this week.

C (12:23)

Congrats. That's more than the speed limit.

D (12:27)

I know, I know it. But I've realized I'm not as strong as I once was. Like, I'm just not. I mean, I can still.

C (12:36)

Yeah.

D (12:37)

And I can still do things and whatever, but I'm. The thing about it, it doesn't irk me. I don't walk around mad that I'm not as strong as I once was. Like, if I get an opportunity to take a nap at 2:00 in the afternoon, taking a nap, I'm not bitter about it. I'm like, you know, and the way that I work, my, my brain gets tired. So a lot of times I'll lay down in my office and I'll sleep 20 minutes or something. And so I'm the king of the, the 20 minute nap. But I'm not, I'm just not as strong as I used to be. And that's okay. I don't know why I got launched onto that, but it, it, it has hit me somewhere this year I learned that my thyroid had quit working. So I take stuff to help my thyroid. But it, like 20 years ago that would have really bothered me. Like I'd have been mad at the Lord and mad at people and I'm just not, I think. So I get, as I get older, maybe I mellow a little bit more, whatever. And maybe there's some wisdom there. I got more gray hair, so maybe it comes along with that.

C (13:38)

But you're very fit and climb mountains and shot an elk with a bow. Okay, but, but you do notice one of the things. Kyle Thompson with Undaunted Life talks a lot more about resilience than strength. And I think it's, there's a lot of wisdom. I love Kyle. He's great. He's got many great ideas. When he talks about resilience over strength, I think he's like beyond his years of maturity on this one. Because strength over time will wane. You don't have a choice. Even the strongest man in the world after the day of his competition is not the strongest man in the world anymore because he has to recuperate. Makes sense. But resilience is time under pressure. And that you just continuously, you keep drudging forward even though like we, we are not getting stronger, we are getting weaker over time.

D (14:30)

How is resilience different than endurance?

C (14:33)

They're, I think they're very similar words. Um, but Resilience is like, even in endurance, your endurance is going to wane. But like, with whatever I have the capacity, in my limited nature, I am pressing forward towards the prize. That's resilience. You know, I might get knocked down, I might get injured, but in my current state, I'm taking whatever I have and whatever have left and I am pressing forward to what God's called in my life, you know. Yeah, because I mean, I'm at the place, I'm 52, I work out a lot. There's no chance. I mean, I peaked in strength in my like mid-30s. That's when you're the strongest in your life as a man. Really? Yeah. There's no doubt. Same, close.

B (15:16)

Not your 20s.

C (15:17)

No. You're more flexible and athletic, but not strength because muscle and the fibers and tendons and bone density.

B (15:24)

My strongest decade.

C (15:25)

You got it, baby. And now I'm at the point where people are like, you know, wow, you're what you are jacked for a 52 year old. I get that like qualifier all the time. Or when I'm hiking mountains, chasing moose, the guy's like, you're doing pretty good for over 50, you know, I'm like, man, but you just lean into it, you know, you're just like, yeah, cool. That's what like I, I, I. It takes a lot of humility in the life of a man to move from warrior to king to sage. And that's a real transition, you know. And I am, I mean, I'm kind of moving from that to warrior to more of a kingly, like way more than just being on the front lines. Now my job is to create a God honoring kingdom whereby a bunch of warriors are raised up. There will be a day where I don't have authority anymore. I've just got wisdom to pass on to whoever's in the sitting in the king seat. And if you don't have humility as an aging male, you won't be able to transition through those. And there's nothing sadder for an old man to think he's still the warrior. You know what I mean?

B (16:38)

Yeah.

D (16:38)

So here's what I was thinking. Here's my, I'm going to, I'm going to hijack you for about two minutes here, but somewhere or another, I got in 1 Corinthians this week and Paul in the seventh chapter says this and this. He, what he's talking about is not what I gathered from it, but he says, I give my judgment or I give my opinion in this matter. As one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy or is found faithful. And I thought. I just. I thought the Lord's mercy is found faithful. And I used to think my faith was something I could bootstrap up. Like, at least I got credit for the faith. And the older I get and the more I understand his grace. And his mercy, I realize is not. It's God who works in me to will and to act according to his good purposes. So I'm gonna work out my salvation with FAI and trembling. So, I don't know. Just this thing is this week has for me, as we've been talking about, standing firm. And I'm not as strong as. I can't probably stand as strongly as I used to, but I also don't have to because I trust the Lord and He's faithful, and his mercy is new. And so when tomorrow morning when I wake up, I may not be as strong as I was the day before, but his mercy is there, and because of him, I'll be found faithful. So I don't know. There's been this just shift in me and how I look at strength and my own strength. And Paul says, the Lord stood with me and strengthened me and delivered me from the mouth of the lion. So I know there's this thing happening in my head where I'm learning to lean and trust on the Lord for strength because I can't physically bootstrap it up anymore. My body just doesn't produce it the way it used to.

B (18:22)

But would y' all say that the four things Sabbath, perseverance, humility and serving. If your physical strength is on the decline, wouldn't you say in those four things, as you're sanctified and as you walk with the Lord over decades, those things are going in the right direction?

C (18:39)

Yeah. Well, I think Jesus, if I was like, I could bench whatever I used to convenge. Okay. One time I did in a competition, I did £500, so. And I wanted to do it because.

D (18:48)

It'S so much weight.

C (18:50)

I can't even.

D (18:51)

It would take me, like, three lifts to get that off the bench. I mean, like, break it up into three separate weights.

C (18:56)

It would kill me. I still. I try to. I do 315 every year to make sure I still can. But that's getting hard, right?

D (19:01)

Yeah, I do that, too.

C (19:03)

Every year. I just throw that around. But if we bit, you know, whatever. See, that's the thing. So it's like, how do you define strength, right? By bench press or by who can hike the mountain okay. Cuz honestly, a bench press is about the most worthless thing on the. Like, how often have you laid on your back and push something off? You know what I mean? Right. Unless you're so. It's just whatever. So if you were to. If you were like, well, Jesus, I can bench however much, he'd be like, okay, so what. What does that have to do with anything? You know? Now, we shouldn't be weak physically. We need to steward our bodies. But he just. He just completely redefines it. I don't know where this fits. I just got to say this, because this. I think this is incredible. I'm preaching a conference this week in Dallas at Right Now Media, and I've been on. It's conference season, and it's deer season, so my life is the most busy it's ever been. So it's great. So somehow, by the grace of God, at, like, four conferences in a row, Christine Kane and I share a stage, and we kind of take turns.

D (20:01)

She's amazing.

C (20:02)

She is.

B (20:03)

Love that y' all share the stage because you're just so different, but so similar. It's just. It's the best.

C (20:08)

I love her.

D (20:08)

She's.

C (20:09)

She. Look, it's so great. You're right. You're right. So we've been doing podcasts together. We've been sharing stages together. We just. And I didn't pay attention to the lineup, but right now, media is the best. So everybody that's a. A part of 1122, you get free access to Right Now Media. She used to go on there, and I've done a bunch of stuff. Listen to Christine Cain. All the. Almost everybody that preaches saturated has done stuff anyway. It's great. It's like Netflix for Jesus. All right, so I walk in the green room, and I'm just getting my stuff together, and she just comes Beeline. I can hear her coming with her Australian accent, and she's going like, we're gonna be starting rumors. And I was like, I'll start a room with you anytime, Christine. She gives a big hug, and she immediately goes, I love this series on Stand firm and act like men. My husband is devouring it, and thank you so much. Okay, remember what I said when this started? Godly women don't ask, what about me? They say, how can I help? And then she says, the Deepen podcast. I love it so much. And then. And then, like, dives into a couple of things. All right, this is. Listen. Christine Cain has probably been in 25 countries rescuing people out of human trafficking, and Spreading gospel seed all over this place. And God is using this. This is a. She's a really good example of an incredibly strong woman using the gifts that God has given her. And the first thing that she says to me, one is, gives honor. She ain't got to say nothing, bro. She's Christine Kane. She ain't gonna say nothing to me and then just brag on her husband, you know what I mean? Okay, look at this. She. Her life is rightly ordered. She's been through some serious pain. Have you heard her story about adoption and how God used that and her identity? She's humble, she's submitting, she's talking about. She's lifting up her husband and, you know, then we're there serving at this thing together. Like, I just thought it was really, really cool because what the world would want to do is pit me, the author of stanfordman Act Like Men, somehow pit me again, me and Christine against one another. Because I'm, I'm doing this whole man thing, you know, and it's. It's the exact opposite. She's running up, encouraging, high fiving. I mean, dude, it blew me away. And.

B (22:28)

Yeah, and we don't even know, you know, the seeds that are planted in that, in the connections that you make. You just have no idea what then God's going to do with that later on. And she didn't think, she's not thinking strategically 10 years ahead, what that means for like there. It's just, that's just her natural bend. And yeah, I get so excited about that. I mean, that ladies, like, take note. That is because she is a strong, bold woman walking in the call that God's put on her life. I mean, beaten down doors to get the gospel there. And yet we see, we hear that.

C (22:59)

Like, and then she preaches and then I'm right behind her and I just walk out going, is she not the best y'?

D (23:05)

All?

C (23:06)

And. And I was like, honestly, when she got done, I thought this would be a good time to take up an offering and let's go home. But now you gotta listen to me. So anyway, yeah, that's like, we were talking to this girl in the hallway. I love this so much. She came up, she's like, I want to meet that girl Ally, because I am a recovering feminist. That's what she said. And she was talking about she bought into the lies of the world, that she was supposed to hate men because they were in her place. Okay, That's a zero sum game. That's. That's. You think men are on one side of the seesaw, and women are on the other side, and the only way for you to elevate is for them to. To. To drop, you know, and that's not how it is, man. And your words have freed up this girl. And. And I was like, listen, dude, nice job.

B (23:45)

I know I admitted on the podcast last week that I am a recovering feminist, although I don't know if I'm as extreme as this girl.

C (23:53)

Right. Yeah. You know, you were just. Yeah, you're just aggressive, that's all. And it just had to get harnessed a little bit. Yeah. And there was a little bit of.

B (24:01)

In the right environment, there's a little.

C (24:03)

Bit of selfish ambition and. And no doubt a little bit, Right?

D (24:06)

Yeah.

C (24:06)

Yeah. Because you were thinking about me, and I'm gonna bust glass ceilings.

B (24:08)

No doubt.

C (24:10)

But now you walk in freedom, like I mentioned. Aren't you so glad you're not sitting here because you're a girl? Yes. Like, if you're a di Hireman, how can you ever rightly. No, truly, like, feel free. But it's not that at all. I mean, from the time you were in high school, I was like, God's got his hand on this chick. And I. And I made, like, pretty hardcore complimentarian, you know, kind of person fanning the flame of God's gifts in you and kind of plowing a way forward for you. Right?

B (24:45)

Yeah.

C (24:45)

Creating opportunities, connecting you with ministry opportunities, you know, all those kind of things. That's how it ought to work. I mean, that's that we're to complement one another, you know? And so in, like, a good, healthy marriage or in any good, healthy friendship between men and women, their strengths are typically different and rightly ordered in humility. They complement one another. And one plus one equals three. And you can go further, faster together as opposed to, like, competing against one another.

B (25:17)

Yeah, for sure. Just to close the thought loop on this one, I heard a quote from Mark Batterson in a podcast today. He said he was so competitive early on his life. He played college basketball. He just was so competitive to a fault. Not good, sinful. And he would pray all the time, God, remove the spirit of competition from me. Remove it. Remove it. And he just heard God clear, as they say, I will not remove this, but I will refine it.

C (25:45)

There it is.

B (25:46)

And I think with a lot of what we're talking about, that kind of came to mind, as it's not to change how we're made and how God designed us, but we also want to be open to refinement. And want to be refined.

C (26:01)

Just give the reins to Jesus.

B (26:02)

Yeah.

C (26:03)

So remember Strength finders. Remember that thing? My number one is competition. CS Lewis says that's the greatest of all sin. Sweet. I'm winning at sinning. Thanks, thanks. Okay, so here's what I've done with that. You will never. I am not in a competition to have the biggest church. I'm not whatsoever. What I. I am in a competition to sponsor more compassion kids than all the other churches. Because what happens if we lose? That just means more kids get rescued from poverty in Jesus name. That's. You see what I mean? So what you do is you leverage this thing in you that the enemy wants to try to. Like I can play his game. So everything God creates, the enemy corrupts. Well, everything. Got everything the enemy wants to corrupt. What if I just hand that back over to God and say, all right, how are we going to use this? You know, so like my, my desire to work out and all that stuff, I just leverage it now to one of. Another one of my one mores got saved yesterday from the gym guys. Like 70 year old bodybuilder and he just surrendered his life to Christ yesterday. Let's go, dude. We're baptizing Sunday. One of my one mores from the church. I mean from the gym. So that's it. So I, I had an unhealthy obsession at a season in my life when I was competing and it mattered more than anything else. Okay, well this doesn't mean like, okay, well guess what, you get to be weak and fat. That's what you have to do to fight this one. It's like, no, no, no, no. Why don't you go try to be strong for a 52 year old and then leverage that for the gospel. Same thing with hunting, you know, I've just leveraged it. I mean, I love it. And now I've run three retreats so far this fall. Taking men out in the woods and say, hey man, to quote Cookie, the devil has a hard time finding you out here. If you'll listen, Jesus will talk to you. He talks to me out here all the time. So the burning bush is out here. You know, you want to hunt with no shoes on, this is holy ground. And if he talks to me, he talk to you. Ain't nothing special about me, so why don't you listen? And, and that was just taking a thing that I really like and saying, all right, Lord, can I just put this in your hands? And he didn't take it away. He just tweeted. Honestly, Ali, your drivenness to make a difference, I mean, it started out with PB and Joy, which is funny and silly, but it's awesome. It got a little bit, in my opinion, misguided because you were going to go to New York and be driven a little bit for you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then now the Lord has not taken your drivenness away. Now it's just gospel focused for sure. So in Philippians 2, it says do nothing out of selfish ambition, vain conceit. Another translation is vain glory. That means glory for me. So when you get out of that game and say glory to you, God can really use that.

B (28:44)

And let's be clear, I mean, I still have to lay that down sometimes. A lot of times this brother is.

C (28:49)

Doing book signings, like conferences about his own book, you know, but what has he done? He's taken this gift that God gave him, this platform that God gave him, and just pointing people to Jesus. I mean, what author in their right mind, apart from the mind of Christ risks the reputation of all of these? You know, I mean, he's a novelist and then he's like, I'm going to start writing non fiction books about Jesus. What if it's true? They turn the world upside down. You know, it is finished. This kind of stuff, like this is what this brother has done. God didn't say, hey, if you don't act right, I'm taking this away. Because Charles says, hey, you've given me this gift. I'm just going to put the reins in your hands. And he didn't have to stop writing books like stories either. They're just, they're, they're just all saturated with the gospel. This is, this is what a rightly ordered Sabbath man does. It's not just about busyness. The Sabbath is about, it's a first fruit offering. Not with finances, but with your actually your most valuable commodity, which is your time. Because if you run out of money, you can get more money. You run out of time, it's over. And so you're rightly ordering your life that way.

B (30:07)

There's a quote that's been really messed me up that I heard a guy say at a conference. He said, when you become weary, it's oftentimes because you're giving gold time to bronze tasks.

C (30:19)

Wow.

B (30:20)

And yeah, I just can't stop thinking about it, like really taking inventory of even good godly things could still be a bronze task.

C (30:30)

Carrie Newhoff, you know, he has a podcast, he's got a book. I'm gonna mess it up. I'm sorry, Carrie. It's a great book. And he. I think he would. He would measure his days in, like, green light, yellow light, red light. And it was like, my most energy when I'm most creative. And then he would put those tasks, the most important task in ministry, in the times of his rhythms, when he had the most energy to put towards it. And he did not prioritize his schedule. He scheduled his priorities. That's different.

B (31:04)

Yeah. Wow.

C (31:05)

Yeah. That's a Sabbath life.

D (31:07)

Say that again.

C (31:08)

He didn't prioritize his schedule. That means the schedule tells me what to do, and then I just try to move it around. He scheduled his priorities.

D (31:16)

That's good.

B (31:17)

So good.

C (31:17)

Yeah.

B (31:18)

Yeah. I mean, I'm experiencing this literally right now, which I'll just share it because maybe someone else will feel seen in it. But I have a podcast, and we record on my days off, which is Fridays, but that's also the only day of the week that I. It's just me and my girls, and I have been feeling tired by it. Like, I love it when it's. When I'm in the interviews. I love it when I talk to someone who's impacted by a conversation. I'm like, I know God has me here, but the thought of it just kind of, like, overwhelms me. I just feel, like, tired from it. And when I heard that quote, a lot of us are giving gold time to bronze tasks. Afterwards, I was talking to another girl who's podcasting. I was kind of telling her, like, I'm just feeling a little tired. And I'm telling her about it, and she was like, I think on Fridays, your gold task is time with your kids. So you're giving your gold time to something that is good and godly, but it's pulling away. And it was just. It was a good reminder for me to take inventory of the things that I'm giving my time and energy to. And reorient, needing to maybe recalibrate a bit of what am I giving my gold time to, you know.

C (32:33)

And it. It's going to change by season. There's not like you make a decision as a parent because parents of kids who aren't in school yet is way different than parents, you know, for sure. I've been traveling like crazy, and guess what? This is so great. I'll say. I mean. I mean, I've been going. I think I've spent the night at my house twice in the last four weeks or something like that ministry stuff. There's been a Lot of stuff. Some unforeseen things. You know, I didn't plan to go to California last week or whatever, and so I just got home today, and. And tomorrow nobody's gonna be home but me. Well, Reagan's at school, and then she's got this birthday party. She's playing forever. JP's up at the retreat center helping Big Kelly work, and that means shoot hogs. And Gretchen's leading a women's retreat at the retreat center, and so I'm at home with the dogs. Here we are. You know what I mean? So because of that, what? I'm going. I was supposed to do some things in the morning. I canceled it just so I could take Reagan to school. Even though it's gonna be 25 minutes, I'm taking it. And then I've rearranged some stuff so Saturday, all day, it's just me and her gonna hang out, you know, and it just changes, you know, it's. That was different. It's just different. It's just gonna be. Every season's different. That's right.

B (33:44)

Yeah.

D (33:45)

I've seen you with the girls. I know you're a great mama.

C (33:47)

Right?

D (33:47)

And. And so just hear that. I know that you are a great mama. I've also been around really talented podcasting people, one of whom is Annie Downs, who I love dearly and is an amazing lady. And whatever gift she has, I've told you this, and you know that, but you might need to hear it again. And I'm not telling you to take time away from your girls on Friday, but here it is, whatever gift she has, which is a gift of talking to people across the table and getting them to open up, especially introverts like me, because every time I sit down with her, I wonder, what in the world are we going to talk about? I have no idea. How is she going to get me out of me? Well, she does. And the hour goes by, and I always love it. You do that. You do the exact same thing. You do it with joy. And you have a presence. You have an actual presence that people want to be around, and it fills them up. You're a filler, not a drainer. And so whatever you're doing in your podcast, don't let the enemy. Don't let the enemy whisper that it's. I don't know whether he's taking your weariness or your tiredness or. Don't let the enemy take that from you, because the Lord gave it to you. Now, I'm also. Your girls are amazing. And I mean It. You're a great mama, so. But you can do both.

C (35:05)

Yeah. Also, don't confuse getting tired with whether God's in it or not in it. Preaching. You've taught me that preaching exhausts me, and I think I was put on the planet to do it. Preparing energizes me for sermons. Like, my favorite, like, week of the year. This happens probably 10 of the weeks or whatever is just when I get to sit down with the Bible with no pressure, performance on the back end of it. And I'm mapping out how we're going to teach this over time. I love it. You know, I'm kind of a pain in the butt if I've been doing that all day. I want to be, you know, and you happen to be the poor soul that bumps into me first. I'm like, guess what I learned? I mean, you know what I mean? But after preaching three times, a little like, I think I've preached, let's see, by Sunday, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, it'll be something like 4, something like 14 times in 9 days or something like that.

D (36:08)

Bed with the COVID Right.

C (36:10)

And I'm. And I'm pretty tired preaching, you know, I really am. But that doesn't mean, like, the fact that I can't stay awake on a Sunday afternoon and the fact that when I wake up on Sunday morning that I'm like, okay, here we go. It doesn't mean that that's not God's call in my life. So just be careful. That feeling of weariness might just be a little bit of a light on the dashboard to pay attention to. So it. It's a gauge, not a guide.

B (36:41)

Yeah, that's great. And you know, you know, one thing that you've taught me that I loved, because this is very countercultural, is going to sleep tired is not a bad thing.

C (36:51)

That's the way God made us.

B (36:53)

Yeah. We are called to run really hard. And we talk about the lie of busy and, and. But there is the living a full life unto the glory of God, like is what we're called to do. And I think there's a lot of power in that.

C (37:09)

So currently my schedule is very full right now. But it's a season. It really is. And I know I've got. I've got a trip with JP next week. That's just different. It's just different. He doesn't start fire school until the. Till January, and he works here right now. So I talked to his boss. I was like, here are the dates he's getting off because he's going with me, buddy. You know, so we've been making memories. It's just different. I also know that Gretchen and I have a trip coming up with just us and another couple. And so that's going to be cool. And I've got Thanksgiving week coming. It's all family all week. You know, I honestly, I'm trying to think at this point in my life, and if you're 25, you don't get to do this. So I'm sorry, but God has blessed us. And for me, at this point, time is way more valuable than money. Way more valuable than money. And so I hire some people to do some things that I. So that I'm not busy. And all. Almost all of my time is focused on gold standard things. Like, if you look at my calendar, there's no junk in it.

B (38:18)

Yeah.

C (38:19)

Because I ain't got time for that, you know?

B (38:21)

Yep.

C (38:22)

And I. I go to. I go to bed very tired and. But again, too, it's also seasonal, man. I got a 20 year old and a 16 year old. So I don't have to. We could just leave them for a long time and they're going to make it, you know. And the other thing that is just true. Charles, you know this to be true. I have a wife that loves me and I've got healthy kids that love the Lord. That just in and of it, you change any one of those things, you get an unhealthy kid, you get a prodigal kid, or you get a spouse that's not supportive. And I am telling you, bro, you ain't strong. Wow. Like, you know it just because then what happens? So. So when Paul is talking to Timothy and Titus and he's like, all right, when you're looking for elders of your church, you gotta look at their household. And I don't think what he's saying is if your household isn't in alignment with God, then you're disqualified because you must not be a good leader. I don't think that's what he's saying. I think what he's saying is. Hold on one second. Your first church is your home. So you don't have extra time right now to be spending at church. You better be spending all of your time at home making sure that your wife is loved well and your children are being raised well. So if anything gets shaky over there, then quit coming to meetings here. You need to go there and get that right. Well, by God's grace, again, I've got a wife that loves me and I've got healthy kids that love the Lord. And, bro, I feel like I could just go, go, go.

D (39:50)

I can't remember who said it, but you cannot fight in two directions. And if one of those things is off, you are. You are fighting in two directions. If the movie 300 taught us anything, it taught us that.

C (40:02)

That's right.

D (40:04)

I have had in this year, this 56th year of my life has been the busiest work, production year of my life. And I say that with gratitude. That is not a complaint. I have loved it. The Lord has allowed me to do things I didn't ever think I'd get to do. He woke me up January 1st, and I felt like he. I didn't. It wasn't audible, but I felt like he asked me a question. And I've just spent the last 11 months answering that. And I finished that last week. Finished it in a box stand on our. On our farm. But I. The Lord has allowed me, and he's wired why. Whereas he's wired him to do what he does. And I don't know how he preaches 17 times in nine days or whatever. I mean, I literally would be. Do you know how far under the.

C (40:52)

Covers I would be?

D (40:54)

But I. But I can write. And I am energized by that. And the Lord will wake me up at 2:30 or 3 or 3:30, and my eyes will pop open, and I may have only been asleep a couple hours. My eyes will pop open and I'll hear either him say or me quoting the scripture that says, I'll show you the light and the darkness. And it's physically dark outside. And I think to myself, I could get up and work. And then my day, I'm much more free like I'm. Because then the busy. The business part of my life crowds in, and so I'll get up and work. And I've done that throughout my career. It's been a real gift to me from the Lord because it's allowed me to work when everybody's sleeping, and then I get to spend time with the kids and Christy and all that. But I'm. I'm so. I've found myself. This week, I had two deadlines. This week I met them both. I'm excited about all that's happening. Not to make it about me, but I'm just excited about that. But the Lord allows, allow. He's wired me that way. And I have found that rhythm, whatever that is, and I can work really hard within. Now, I'm also. You can ask Christy. I'm a Horrible multitasker. I don't multitask well, obviously, I'm very good at doing one thing to completion, which, if you're going to give me a choice, I'm going to choose the one thing to completion. I've done it 32 times now. 31 times. But this week, I was sitting in. November 3rd is my birthday. I got in the stand long before daylight. It was like four. And I'm sitting there with my laptop on my lap, trying to finish a book, and I write, you know, three hours. Sun comes up, and I. I see. I see the sun coming through the glass, and I'm sitting there doing this thing I love doing, and the Lord allows me to do it. And I. I feel like the luckiest joker on planet Earth, the most blessed that I get to. And I'm writing about him, so it's time I spend with him in his Word, and he's showing me stuff, and it's. It's an extravagant gift that I totally don't feel worthy of. But on the morning of my birthday, I woke up and I'm sitting there watching the sun come up through the glass, and I'm like, lord, thank you for this. I don't know how. I don't know how we got here, and I don't know how you got me here, but for this, I just want to say thank you. And I don't. I know he feels that. I know he runs crazy. He, he, he, he. His schedule. I don't know how he does it, but I know he feels that way. I feel that way.

C (43:42)

The greatest way to say thank you to a gift giver is relish the gift. Think about it, all right? When your kids are little and you bought them a Christmas present, the best thing they could do is love it, right? Yeah. Yeah. And we are so blessed. Dude. Here's what I'm thinking about. What Christians in Nigeria are being murdered for right now. We make a living on.

D (44:08)

Jeez, that's right.

C (44:09)

Like, we are afforded. Like, here we are at this podcast, and Christine Kane is saying, thank you for the Deepen podcast. Please continue. It is impacting my ministry, what you know, and I get to live. Live indoors and eat hot food because this church is gracious enough to pay me a salary because I teach the Bible for a living. Yeah, that's grace upon grace upon grace upon grace.

B (44:33)

Will you do a brief your fills and drains? Because that's kind of what we're circling around. I think it's really helpful.

C (44:40)

I learned it. Matt Carter taught me this When I met Matt Carter, I was in this cohort thing for young up and coming preachers. And he was one of the coaches leaders because he. Yeah, he was a big deal. It was a big deal. So he draws this. You know, a lot of people just listen. He draws a big, like, bucket, and he's like, this is your energy level. And you got things that fill you up and you got things that drain you. These are not good and bad. These are just the realities, okay? And we were created. I mean, in an ideal world, in Eden, you are living on 99%. You know, you wake up in the morning ready to go. You work hard all day and you get tired, and there's nothing wrong with tired. And then you go to sleep. And through this miraculous physical depiction of our dependence on God. You ever think about that? Like, you can't go three days without this or you will die. Right, Right. And so it's this constant reminder, I ain't got this. I need God. I mean, think about this. You go into this, like, mini coma. Nobody even freaks out. You're literally unconscious. Nobody was like, no, he's just. It's just he's. He's like a rechargeable battery. It's crazy. And that's what you're supposed to do. You get tired. You know, you say you work down to 75 and then you wake up 99, 75. You know, that's ideal. Well, in our world, what mostly we do, we neglect the fills and the drains. We get too busy. We don't pay attention to things like diet and exercise and sleep. And so what most of us do below tired is exhausted. And what a lot of people do is they live kind of just above exhausted and they survive on chemical warfare, right? So caffeine to wake up and then whiskey to go to sleep is ain't good. And you live at that exhausted for too long. And Matt is the guy when I said I have a theory, he's the first one I heard talk about it. And below exhausted is often moral failure because we make terrible decisions when we're down here. So what you have to pay attention to is what are the things that fill you and what are the things that drain you? And again, these are not good and bad. So I've mentioned before, okay? So fun. Dad fills me. JP is shooting hogs in the retreat center today. I'm trying to get up there Saturday to do that with him. That is a fill. Discipline. Dad drains me. This doesn't mean that you don't discipline your children. Of course you do. I just got to tell you, it's a drain. All right. Happy G is the most feeling, not happy G is the most draining. But it's for better or for worse, right? Another good example. Preparing for messages and series is one of the most filling. Preaching it is one of the most draining. I can't stay awake on a Sunday afternoon because I am out, okay? So it's not good or bad. So then you got to pay attention to fills and drains. And if you have more drains in your life than fills and you're not living in rhythm, you're in trouble. If you live in the exhausted too long, then probably won't be long before moral failure hits in, especially in ministry, because most people are too full of pride, and they would rather hit the eject button to be disqualified than to raise their hand and say, I can't do it. Isn't that crazy?

D (47:46)

Yeah.

C (47:46)

Wow. And they know if I just do that wrong, somebody will find out and I'm out. Okay? So you got to pay very close attention to this. Now. The. The solve is not okay. When I was coming along in the 90s, everybody said, you got to slow the pace because this is a marathon. I don't see that in the Bible. I don't see pace in the Bible. I see you work hard for six days, sun up to sundown, and then you stop and rest for a day. That. It's rhythm, not pace. So to run at a medium pace is mediocrity. I don't want mediocrity. I think it makes Jesus sick. That's like I said, that's South Carolina football. That's what that is.

B (48:25)

That's right. Go Tigers.

D (48:27)

Oh, yeah.

C (48:28)

Well, y' all on the struggle bus, man. But. But you had your years of national championships. That might not be. Those are my years. And Dabo loves the Lord, so whatever. But they're never going to be that great. But they're never going to be terrible. Right? Okay. And so what you got to do is you got to live in rhythm. And if you think about the way God created things, he created us in rhythm. Why didn't you just say everything? He said everything. And one day he didn't. The first three days, he creates the environments that he fills in the subsequent three days. And then everybody gets a day off. And they don't rest from work, they rest for it. And that was a rightly orient themselves in line with who God is first and best in their life so that they were ready to go and work again when you Live in that rhythm. It's amazing what you can do. You live in the scramble. It's like somebody popped a hole in the bottle of the bucket and the drain is just running full speed. So you got to pay very close attention to these. It's a good idea to be honest about the drains and fills and then talk to a few people that love you and you love them and just be honest about it, you know?

B (49:28)

Yes, yes. That practice you taught that I don't know within the first year I was on staff eight years ago. And that single handedly has one been one of the most helpful practical tools for how to avoid busy and pursue full.

C (49:45)

Yep.

B (49:46)

Because yeah, I just had. I never heard.

C (49:48)

So then if you want to take like the varsity level, if you want to go like, you know, master's level of this now, lay the shema over this and say, now let's just talk about drains and fills in your heart. So relationally, what's draining, what's feeling? It'd be a really great conversation to have with your wife. You know what I mean? So you know what fills me up like crazy if I walk in the room, if you could just give me a kiss. I'm just telling you, just here it is. You know what drains me, you know, and you. And, and again, these aren't good and bad, you know, physically, what fills you and what drains you? Like, like I said in the sermon, I got a. I left this morning. I was in Dallas. I preached yesterday in Dallas, flew here today, did a podcast with Vitor Belfort, former UFC champion. He was sitting right there. He's awesome. He's going to plan a church, we're going to help him. And then I got a pre. I get done with that. It's probably 4 o' clock and I told the team I'm going to the gym. Now in most people's mind that wouldn't make sense, but it fills me up and I feel more alive when I preach tonight. So this is like strategy. I'm trying to make me the best version of me for the sermon. And so I know that's a fill, not a drain. Does that make sense? Those kind of things? If you're an introvert, there's gonna be different things that fill you and drain you. If it. Extroverts can be different. Okay, so do it heart, do it soul. So it with Jesus. What fills you, what drains you. Sin is going to drain your relationship with Jesus. Pay attention to that. Right? Heart, soul, mind and strength. You should pay attention to these things. Yeah.

D (51:14)

So good.

B (51:14)

Charles, what would you add?

D (51:17)

Nothing. I don't. I can't say any better. Well, I'm a massive introvert. I have to. Have to gear up for spending a lot of time with a lot of people. I love doing it, but it drains me. I just. We had one of my books celebrated 20 years and so last weekend we had a big thing for it and I signed a lot of books and met with hundreds of people and I love doing it. I do. But for like four days after, I'm a walking zombie. I mean, it's useless. I mean, Christy will walk up and do the hand in front of my eyes. You see, like, are you in there? And I just. Because I've just given all out, so I have to. I have to gear up for that. I'm. I'm Tom. Behind my computer is a fill for me. Social media. I don't do social media because it's a drain. I just don't do it. I don't. I don't. I'm. It's a. It's a mostly evil to begin with, in my opinion, but it. It doesn't fill me up, so I don't waste my time on it. Working out is a. Is a thing the Lord gave me a long time ago. I mean, a long time. I mean, 40 years ago. He gave it to me because it. If my mind. We don't always know how hard our minds are working and. And I feel like mine works hard at times. And the only way I know how to let my mind unwind is get my body to do something. So I'll. That's why I. I'm not trying to work out to be something. I go work out because it lets my brain. I can't tell you the number of times I've been working on something. Can't figure out how to say it. I'll go work out. Somehow it just pops into my head and then I'll go back and work in the afternoon. So those are Phil's. Tom with Christie is a definite Phil. I mean, I just love her, you know, obviously time with boys. This weekend was the birthday weekend at the farm and all my boys are there. I mean, seriously, all of my boys and my wife at the farm. Come on. I just, you know, there were moments sitting around the fire pit, I just tear up thinking like, you. My wife loves me, she loves the Lord. My kids are all walking with the Lord and they love their wives. You know, for the two of them that are married. Married, and they love the Lord and I think this is. This is good. And I'm not trying to be funny and quote Peter, but this is good. You know, those are Phil's.

B (53:46)

That's good. Well, very encouraging. Lots of practical steps for people to take to pursue this kind of upside. Upside down kingdom strength. Pastor Joby, any closing words? And then will you pray for us?

C (54:03)

I. I'd highly encourage you to hold up the mirror of the word to see the place that you need to lean into. Like, I've already admitted, the only reason I'm not a hypocrite is because I admit that I'm such a sinner, particularly in the humility and the serving. You know, I have a tendency at work and at home to expect to be treated away. And Jesus says, it shall not be so among you. And so part of the reason I say it out loud is because gross things grow in the dark. And when you just shine gospel light on stuff and you just admit it, I mean, James says we should confess our sins to one another, that we would be forgiven. And it's a sin when I expect to be treated a certain way, you know, and so we.

D (54:53)

We've.

C (54:54)

We've all got so much. Regardless of how far the Lord has taken us, we still got a long way to go to live up to what Jesus said. I have set for you an example. You'll be blessed if you do likewise. Are you really doing likewise? You know, and if you're serving, because you are the servant, so what? That's not the point. The thing, the reason this is so amazing is the King of kings dressed himself as a servant. He had all the power, and he could have demonstrated it by, like, what, making it lightning in the room? He could have killed everybody, brought them back to life, and be like, I told y', all, right? And of all the ways to demonstrate his love, he humbles himself, dresses himself as a servant, and serves and then perseveres through the cross to be at the right hand of God the Father. So Jesus, like, he is these things, and may we be also.

B (55:45)

Amen.

D (55:47)

Can I interject one thing before you pray this? In the last two weeks, this one hit me. So I'm speaking to all the men out there that are trying to figure out how to stand firm and act like a man. Somewhere in the last two weeks, Christy and I had a vigorous conversation, and I can't fix her, and she can't fix me. And we're just. You know, we're just at that place, and we love each other. It's not. We're not hurling insults. We're just, you know, a husband and wife trying to figure stuff out. And I'm mad and she's mad and I feel the nudge of the Holy Spirit to do two things. One, humble myself before the Lord, and two, humble myself before her, before the Lord and by the grace of God. And I mean that this has not come for me. This is the grace of God. But in our marriage, a bunch of times when this has happened, I have just held out my hand and Christy, to her great credit, will take it and I'll just let me pray. And in that moment, I'm just inviting the Holy Spirit to do in us what I can't do. I'm too mad to start with. And also, I don't know everything. And I'm not all right all the time. And I don't, I just can't. I don't know what to do. And so I, you know, invite the Holy Spirit and I pray. And the prayers are just, if you've heard them, they're not all that eloquent and great and I mean, they're just pretty rot gut, but the Lord is faithful to answer them. So I just thought in the last like two weeks I remembered taking Christie's hand and praying that. And so, guys, if you're out there and you're trying to figure out in these tough times with your wife or even your kids, let me just encourage you to humble yourself in that moment because you're probably not going to want to let you do it. But if you could humble yourself in that moment. And I'm not saying, look how great I am, I'm just saying in that moment, the Lord did tap me and I did listen. But humble yourself and ask for their hand and then pray and ask the Holy Spirit to come do what you can't, because you can't, but he can.

C (58:08)

So that is what a strong man does. Let's pray. Lord Jesus, because you are rightly ordered and endured pain and submitted to authority and served, and your word promises that the spirit of God is at work in us to conform us into the image and likeness of you. May you do that in us, that we can be great the way you define greatness. Pray it in Jesus name. Amen.

B (58:39)

Thank you for listening to the podcast.

C (58:41)

The end. You nailed it.

A (58:47)

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