Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: The Meaning of Christmas (S17E6)
Date: December 23, 2024
Host: Pastor Joby Martin with Church of Eleven22 team

Episode Overview

In this special Christmas episode, Pastor Joby Martin and team delve deeply into the real meaning of Christmas, exploring how the incarnation of Jesus speaks to the human condition, especially amid suffering, loss, and the busyness of the modern holiday season. The conversation weaves together personal stories, biblical insights from Luke 2, theological reflections on the Incarnation, and reflections on grief, waiting, and grace—unpacking why “What Child Is This?” is still the most important question at Christmas.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Pain and Pressure of Christmas ([00:41]–[08:59])

• Main Idea: Many people come to Christmas carrying grief, pain, or loneliness. The busyness and expectations of the season can distract or even obscure the central message of Christ’s coming.
• Pastor Joby highlights how even amidst a “merry” atmosphere, many are suffering: “Pain can often blur your vision to the Lord, especially when the whole vibe in America is Merry Christmas.” ([02:07])
• Pastor Brit shares personal grief about losing his mother at Christmas, connecting it to the hymn “What Child Is This?”—originally written from a place of pain.
• Grief’s Process: The team discusses how grief begins with “why” questions and, with faith, shifts to “how can God redeem this?”—referencing Romans 8:28 and the choice to allow God to redeem rather than redact hard history ([05:14]–[07:38]).
• Faking Wellness: The pressure to “put on a face” at church is real; faking it too long leads to being “loved for a version of you that isn’t known.” ([09:07])

  “To be known and not loved, that’s rejection. But to be loved and not known is fake. …when you fake it, then you can’t actually be loved because you’re not known.” – Pastor Joby ([09:21])

2. The Real Historical and Social Context of Jesus’ Birth ([12:03]–[29:12])

• Historical Reality: Luke 2 is not a fairy tale but rooted in verifiable history:

  “This is an actual event that can be documented in historical reality. …Not a fairy tale in a galaxy far away.” – Pastor Joby ([13:09])

• Rome and God’s Timing: Caesar Augustus, the most powerful man, is now just a “footnote” in the story of Jesus—a reminder of God’s sovereignty and the upside-down nature of the kingdom. ([13:23])
• Center of the World: Jesus was born not in Rome, the center of power, but in a poor, insignificant place, to poor people.

  “He was like a little poor kid born to poor people in a poor little place.” – Pastor Joby ([18:15])

3. The Significance of Shepherds ([20:55]–[28:03])

• Shepherds as First Witnesses: God’s first announcement of Jesus’ birth goes to shepherds—outsiders, marginalized and “nobodies” in their world ([21:28]).

  “From the highest high of angelic host to the lowest low of shepherd boys…God is truly no respecter of persons. If you are a person created in the image of God then God treats you as very, very valuable.” – Pastor Joby ([21:28])

• Swaddling Clothes and Lamb Sacrifice: The detail of the baby wrapped in swaddling clothes resonates with shepherds who swaddled spotless temple lambs for sacrifice, highlighting Jesus as the Lamb of God ([24:07]–[24:43]).
• Good News for All: The gospel’s message is for “all people”—breaking social and religious barriers.

4. The Theme of Waiting and Fulfillment ([29:12]–[36:44])

• Presentation at the Temple: Even Jesus’ family submitted to the law, fulfilling prophecy and demonstrating faithfulness. Simeon and Anna, who had waited faithfully, saw the coming of the Messiah.
• Advent and Waiting for Christ: Advent is more than remembering Christ’s first coming; it’s also about waiting for His return ([34:42]–[36:10]).

  “We have Christmas built in to think about the Incarnation…But we don’t have the other Advent, waiting for His return.” – Pastor Joby ([34:39])

5. The Deep Mystery and Good News of the Incarnation ([39:06]–[47:44])

• Jesus, Fully God and Fully Man: The Incarnation means God became man—as one speaker puts it, “the King of all glory straight put on a skin suit.” ([40:41])
  • Jesus subjected Himself to time, boredom, discipline, human limitation, temptation, and suffering.
• Why Did God Become Man?

  “The biggest shift there is the Incarnation, stepping out of heaven...he humbled himself and became obedient to being a human. Like, he cried. He got real sad and cried.” – Pastor Joby ([43:12])

• Not a Reaction: The incarnation was part of God’s plan “before the foundation of the world” ([46:54]).
• Redemption by Becoming One of Us: Only by assuming humanity could Jesus redeem humanity ([43:39]).

6. Christianity’s Uniqueness: Grace Over Works ([50:25]–[54:36])

• Grace, Not Performance:

  “Christianity is the only belief system…that claims that God came here to get us, to take us there. Everything else is, we must make our way there.” – Pastor Joby ([50:42])

• C.S. Lewis Anecdote: On religious studies, Lewis distinguishes Christianity by grace—not just superficial similarities ([51:54]).
• Who Do You Say I Am?: Christmas asks the question: “What child is this?” which is really, “Who do you say that I am?”

  “He said, I am the way, I am the truth, I am the life…every other world religion and belief system makes truth claims. Jesus’s claim is him.” – Pastor Joby ([53:12])

7. Final Encouragements and Prayer ([57:53]–[59:51])

• Treasure These Things: Just as Mary “treasured these things in her heart,” listeners are invited to cherish and trust God’s plan, despite the messiness of life or the season ([57:53]).
• True Joy at Christmas: Presents and outward merriment are fleeting; lasting joy comes from trusting God’s sovereignty and love ([59:23]).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grief and God’s Redemption:

  "You have a choice to either redact history or to allow God to redeem it. ...God will redeem. That’s Romans 8:28." – Pastor Brit ([05:14])

• On the Humility of Jesus' Birth:

  “If the King of Kings is born as a king...everybody would be confused and try to. Jesus said, I did not come to be served, but to serve. But if you’re the king, then every, the whole system would be set up to serve you.” – Pastor Joby ([17:46])

• On Grace and Religion:

  “They say, ‘all religions are fundamentally the same and only superficially different.’ [C.S. Lewis] erases it, writes ‘grace’...‘No, no, no. They’re fundamentally different and only superficially the same.’” – Pastor Joby ([51:54])

• On the Incarnation:

  “Jesus, for the first time in his existence, had to wait on something.” – Pastor Joby ([40:36])

• On Faking Wellness:

  “To be loved and not known is fake. ...they love a version of you that you’ve put forward, and you know that.” – Pastor Joby ([09:21])

• On the Uniqueness of Christianity:

  “It’s God with us, not us with God. Grace is the game changer.” – Roundtable ([52:10])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Opening Challenge: Why We Miss Christmas [00:41]–[03:03]
• On Grief and Holiday Pain [03:43]–[07:38]
• The Cost of Faking It [08:59]–[10:27]
• Jesus’ Birth: Historical Context [13:09]–[18:15]
• Shepherds as First Witnesses [21:28]–[24:43]
• Continuity with Old Testament Prophecy [28:42]–[30:49]
• Simeon and Anna: The Importance of Waiting [32:43]–[36:44]
• The Deep Mystery of the Incarnation [39:06]–[47:44]
• Christianity’s Uniqueness: Grace [50:25]–[52:10]
• Final Reflections and Prayer [57:53]–[59:51]

Conclusion

This episode invites listeners to:

• Embrace honest reflection and grief in the presence of Christ
• Recognize the astonishing humility of Jesus’ incarnation
• See the radical, inclusive invitation of the Gospel
• Treasure God’s grace and presence above holiday traditions
• Respond to Christmas by answering, “Who do you say Jesus is?”

Final Encouragement:

“Wherever you are right now, I pray that you would treasure these things in your heart. That God loves you and has a plan for you. …the holidays are a great time to focus our attention on the sovereignty of God in the midst of a mess and to treasure those things.” – Pastor Joby ([57:53])

Merry Christmas from Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin!