B (2:15)

What are your thoughts, Pastor Joby, on those people who would come. Come down in the universal. More of a universalist type conviction.

A (2:25)

They need to read the Bible.

C (2:27)

More than one. More than one phrase in the Bible? Yeah.

A (2:31)

So I mean, the word there is Desire. And so, you know, just because God desires a thing does not mean that that thing is actualized. And the, like hyper Calvinist person. And I, I definitely had Calvinistic leanings. I don't love the title Calvinist because there was also some wacko stuff that guy did, you know, and like, he believed in a state church and infant baptism. So I'm not. According to those two things, I'm not Calvinist. But the doctrines of grace and, you know. Yeah, I'm very reformed in my soteriology. Just meaning that God is the initiator of salvation. That might be the simplest way for me to say it. There's still human agency. But Rob Bell famously took. This was a part of his love wins theology. And he would ask, well, doesn't God get what he desires? Because he's all knowing and all powerful, and if he desires all people will be saved, then they will. Well, but you got to, you know, you can chew gum and walk at the same time, theologically speaking. And so God's desire, I mean, he desires that all people would be saved so much that he sent his only begotten Son, that whoever would believe in him and whoever is in the all people category, any person from the all people category that would believe in Jesus will be saved. And that is God's desire. Then you say may say, I thought you said you were reformed. I am. The question behind it is how? And the gift of faith is given by God. And we also have human agency. A lot of times people use the word free will. I don't like to use the word free will. It's got too much baggage at this point. MacArthur, he's got a pretty good definition of free will. You can freely choose all the sin that you want to.

C (4:25)

Yeah.

A (4:25)

But you can't.

C (4:26)

Fish is free to swim in water.

A (4:27)

Correct? Correct. Correct. Right.

C (4:29)

As a sinner, I'm free to choose all the sin I want. Right.

A (4:31)

But will yourself to be 7ft tall so you don't have free will. That there's extreme limitations. A better, more complete word is agency. You do have agency and responsibility to respond to God. See a whole bunch of other verses. Okay. So it is a really good idea when you're talking about the gospel to just. You don't have to explain when two verses lean up on each other a little bit. It's just better to let the biblical Jenga be what it is.

B (5:06)

Yeah.

A (5:07)

And it. Does God desire that all people be saved? Yes. Is faith a gift from God and not from you? Yes. How do you explain those Things. Yes. Good luck. I mean you can, I mean, you know, lots of people have lots of books about that stuff. I don't know, I don't know that it's for me to be reconciled.

C (5:30)

And I also think, I mean as we're all dads, there are things you would want but you don't necessarily act on for your kids. You have that all the time as a parent. And the other thing is, I think we often read that and we put ourselves at the center and we make this about us instead of going, this is a statement about God and this is an amazing statement about the heart of God and what an incredible God, that his desire would not be for wrath, his desire would be for salvation. That's who our God is.

A (6:13)

Another way I've heard it said is that God must be stirred to wrath. But God is love. Right, But I mean you hadn't had fun until you bumped into the 21 year old hyper Calvinist is trying to tell you who God is. Yeah, Cage stage. Yeah, Cage stage, Calvinism. And that's the person that says you should not look at an entire room and say God loves you because everybody in that room may not be elect. And I'm like, dude, you, you need to know more Bible verses than you know because.

C (6:45)

And I would say that's exactly the reason why you can say that.

A (6:48)

Correct.

C (6:49)

Like I get to testify to the loving goodness and saving work of Jesus and then let God do what he wants to do.

A (6:57)

Right. And God's desire is that all people would be saved.

C (7:01)

Yeah, yeah.

B (7:02)

For some reason I, I think back about like high school age and, and the question, and you were youth ministry a long time, the question is always, what's God's will? For my life.

A (7:13)

Yeah.

B (7:14)

And I heard this teaching about, well, God has a perfect will and a permissive will, you know, and so you think about God's desire for people to be saved. Like there's a, a heart longing that he has out of love for salvation to be received per that agency. And then there's like the willing that is decisive. I don't know if there's a better way to explain that. Like, but there's, there's a will of God that is accomplished. It's not just a desire.

C (7:43)

You do not have to act on every desire, even every good and wholesome desire. And you can choose to act in ways that are in accord with that, but you don't have to run it all the way out to the end.

A (8:01)

What's remarkable, the problem is most of us even Us three right now have a tendency to see all people in a state of neutrality. And it's like God's playing red rover and picking some. The amazing thing, the gracious thing about verses like this is that the people that God desires to be saved are actually in active open rebellion, trying to tyrannically overthrow the God of the universe and be ruler of their own life with a big middle finger and a spiritual fu. God. Yeah, that's the state of the non saved person. They might be nice at Publix, but spiritually speaking, that's it. And to that person, God's response, His heart is man. I wish he'd surrendered me because that is not. If somebody acts that way towards me. My desire is not grace, it's judgment. Right. So.

C (9:06)

And he says his desires that they would come to a knowledge of the truth. If you go back and read Habakkuk 2:14, it's one of my favorite verses in the Bible. It's the most random, but it says that a knowledge of the glory of the Lord will fill the earth as the waters fill the seas. And so God will bring about a knowledge of him, his truth, his glory to cover this earth and his plan. We can rest in that. That is a blood bought promise in Jesus that he will do that thing and it will be perfect in how he does it.

B (9:42)

Yeah, and I love that he's saying, he addresses that which again we talked about before. But the prayer for a peaceful and justly ruled society is for the sake of gospel advancement. You know, like we support Compassion International and. And you want to meet those physical needs, you want to provide structure in society so that people can hear the gospel. And I love that. And then he's going to go through this text that we're talking about today as like that's that under the underpinning and that foundation for it. Yeah, Talk about that word mediator. He says, for there is one God and there is one mediator. And how does that strengthen his exhortation to pray for these things? The fact that we have that mediator in Christ?

A (10:32)

Well, I mean, first of all, verses like this are the underpinning for a theological category that we call the priesthood of the believer that our mediator is not another man that we have to go through that somehow carries our prayers and penance to God on our behalf. But there is one and final mediator. His name is Jesus. And when the curtain was torn, every single one of us, through the blood of Christ are invited into the heavenly Father's presence for all the things you would need to go for, for prayer, for repentance, for supplication, for request. This idea that a human ordination was created as a mediator from between God and people is outside of what Paul is talking about with Timothy here.

B (11:28)

And that's not just something that's like in the Middle Ages or something that's like today.

C (11:33)

I mean, what immediately comes to my mind is in Hebrews 4:14, it says, since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus Christ, the Son of God. So let us hold fast to our confession and then let us with confidence draw near to the throne of grace. And then he says in 7:25, Since He Jesus always lives. Think about this right now. Jesus always lives to make intercession for them. I mean, this was really one of the foundations of the Reformation was what is Jesus doing right now? And that we have one mediator. You don't need anybody else to go to God.

A (12:18)

Right?

C (12:19)

Like because of Jesus. Right now Jesus is seated at the right hand of the Father, interceding for you and me. Like our world is holding together because Jesus is doing this mediation right now. And if he stops, it all unravels. Like he is actively holding it in his mediation right now.

B (12:46)

Yeah. So you don't have to have your priests give you special blessing or like pray to God to give you special forgiveness because Jesus is the mediator, not that.

A (13:00)

Yeah. And when Jesus pushed up on his nail pierce feet and said to tell us, that was paid in full. Therefore penance is not required to somehow put you back into a state of grace with God when you have sinned.

B (13:13)

Right.

A (13:14)

If that were the case, I mean, I'm just telling you, man, Catholic soteriology is Jesus plus ritual activity. Right. As dictated by, you know, those of the cloth.

C (13:28)

Right?

A (13:29)

It is, it is. It is not a good thing. Hear this. If you continue to do some of those things or you grew up that way and you think, well, it's just different flavors of the same ice cream. It is not. It is not. And there are many, many good Jesus loving Catholics that do some wonky stuff just like all the other denominations, you know? Yeah, but right, Christ is our mediator. He is. I mean, if you remember the old school, like y' all remember this youth group, like if you, you're teaching to share your faith and you draw the chasm of sin with the cross as the bridge. Okay, Bridge and media. Pretty good. That's it. Jesus is the only one that. And it's not like we walk it over he comes and gets us and takes us to. Carries our dead body by appointment only. Right, right, right.

C (14:16)

Yeah. And there is that once and for all mediation of like our sin and bringing us to the Father. And the continual. One of the, I mean one of the things, the longer I live, the more grateful I become that I've got an advocate with the Father daily. Like I have Jesus on my behalf every moment, who is an empathetic savior. He's not distant, he's not far off. He understands. And that is of so much comfort to me every moment of my day. Like I'm not holding my world together. Jesus is.

A (15:02)

So one of the things I like to talk about is penal substitutionary atonement is a way to talk about our salvation and it is true and right and biblical and is a picture of our salvation, but is not a complete and perfect description. Right. Only because there's not enough English words that could be lots of images.

B (15:25)

Yeah, yeah.

A (15:26)

So there's the, there's the shame, honor image, there's the adoption image, there's the whatever penal substitutary atonement is a, is a courtroom image. Right. And it's interesting when you think about who is in a courtroom. And as a Christian, oftentimes we put ourselves in the wrong seat. So we're not the judge. There is one of those and it ain't you. You're not the litigator, that's called the accuser. And the accuser of the brethren is the devil.

C (15:55)

You don't want to sit in that seat.

A (15:57)

So the moment I'm. Hey, all you like Watchdog Ministries, right? Be real dang careful. If you're the accuser of the brethren, you're. You're not playing the role you're supposed to play. Okay. You use the word advocate. In 1st century Greek legal system, the defense attorney was called the advocate for the one that was accused. So Jesus, not only is that, but then in our modern day legal system you can go to mediation and a mediator shows up and figures out how to reconcile the two of you. That's what they do, right. They're kind of an objective third party and they're like, you know, you owe him this much, but will you take that much? Jesus shows up to the courtroom and like, if you really play this thing out and we owe God perfection and we can't provide it and he won't lower the bar. And so our mediator pays for the mediation so that the one that has been accused can be defended and advocated for and made Right. With God.

C (17:04)

And because he did that, you now have direct access. And to your point, you don't need a priest, you don't need Mary, you don't need any of that. And actually, by going those ways, what you're saying is you're diminishing the work of Jesus and the current role of Jesus. And I would just go, do you really want to do that? Like, let him be all that he has said that he would be.

B (17:33)

Yeah.

C (17:33)

And it's so much better now.

A (17:35)

On the flip side, or I do think in the. In the Reformation, we did throw out the baby with the bathwater and a bunch of things. And one of them is confession is not even really a part of the Protestant experience. Yeah. Because we so tied confession only to a priest, you know, to be absolved. But we are supposed to confess our sins one to another. Yeah.

B (18:01)

For healing.

A (18:02)

I'm a priest, you're a priest. We're all the priesthood of the believer. And so God has put us together in a family and for the sake of healing. And when you confess, this is also different. You're not confessing that you sinned. You're confessing the blood of Jesus over your sin. These are different things. This is not, father, forgive me for I have sinned. This is Father. And that little thing is you're talking to a dude on the other side of the screen. Okay. The way we're supposed to confess is, Adam, I sinned. The Bible says be angry and don't sin. I was angry and I sinned. Here are some things that I did. And in that confession, you're shining light. You're inviting the gospel once again into your life. But my confession is. And Jesus has forgiven me of it. Now I'm supposed to walk in a manner worthy of the gospel of Jesus. And when I was sinning, I was not walking in a manner worthy of gospel. So I'm not. This is no excuse. This is confessing that I have the power within me to live victoriously over sin. Not every time, but I do. And I was walking out of step. And so I'm telling you this. And that's where, like, true iron sharpening and iron accountability comes from. Well, I think we lost a lot of that because we just didn't want to be Catholic.

B (19:20)

Yeah.

A (19:21)

You know.

C (19:22)

Yeah, yeah, I've heard it. I've heard it said. And you can't take this too far. You. You repent to God of your sin for forgiveness, and you confess to one another for your healing.

A (19:31)

Yeah.

C (19:32)

And I know, like. But no but we've all seen it play out. Like, the minute you bring something out into the light and confess it, there is healing in that thing, even in that.

B (19:43)

So when I see. When I read that mediator word, I think it does at least two things. It gives you confidence in your faith. I mean, Romans 8 says that, you know, when Paul goes on that big, long diatribe that's so wonderful about, like, the confidence you can have in the love of God. So who's going to condemn you? Jesus is not going to condemn you. He's actually. He's praying for you, is your point.

A (20:07)

Right.

B (20:07)

So it gives you confidence just to stand in that you have a mediator in Jesus. Yeah, but the context here is the prayer that we're supposed to be praying. So it does give us confidence for our prayer life, because we're not praying on our own merit. We're not praying on our own.

A (20:21)

Yeah.

B (20:21)

With some magic formula, you know, and some people might be confused about that when, like, oh, if you pray it in Jesus name, that doesn't mean it's like you. You have to say that to make it work. You know what I mean? It's like, no, you're praying inside of this relationship with Jesus.

C (20:35)

Yeah. And the other thing of this is, like, the grace that saves you is the grace that keeps you and sustains you all the way. And so when you say Jesus is the mediator, he's not just the mediator that came and got you and brought you across that bridge. He is the one that continues to uphold you in your life. And it's not like God went, okay, cool, you're on this side now. You take it from here. Even better is I went and got you, I healed you, I raised you, and I will keep you and uphold you all the days of your life. And the longer I live, the more I just. The more I need that sustaining.

A (21:17)

Well, there's a. There's a real key difference. You know, you don't get the gospel when you're like, oh, no, I screwed up. Don't tell dad. Yep, versus, oh, no, I'm in trouble. Call dad. Like, that's the fundamental difference. And when you know Christ is your mediator, you're like, call dad. Yeah, yeah, I know I screwed up. Call dad.

B (21:38)

What other. What other hope do you have?

A (21:40)

I mean. Right.

B (21:40)

He continues that ministry of mediation. That's what the intercession is.

A (21:44)

Yeah.

B (21:45)

And we're talking about imagery. You know, there's another one in here. It said that there was one mediator between God and men, the man, Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom. So that brings up a whole nother image. Talk about that.

C (21:57)

Yeah. I mean, so great movie.

A (22:00)

Yeah.

C (22:00)

I mean, a ransom is a payment to buy back a captive into freedom.

A (22:10)

Right?

C (22:11)

You've. You've been kidnapped, stolen, bound. You are in a situation in which you can't get yourself out of. And somebody else who wants your freedom pays the price to set you free. That's what a ransom is. Now, every analogy can break down like the ransom is not being paid to Satan. God did not pay Satan for you. Like, we're paying his wrath. That's the propitiation piece of it.

A (22:44)

Yeah. People aren't gonna like this part, but.

C (22:47)

But you are being ransomed.

A (22:50)

Correct.

C (22:50)

Out of your bondage.

A (22:52)

Correct.

C (22:53)

And pay that self.

A (22:54)

Yeah, but yeah, yeah, is the satiation of his prisoner exchange is cool. That works for a minute. You know, like Jesus paid the price for us in our place. That works good. I mean, here's what happens because you talked, you. You let us know that you really wanted to lean in on these two words, which is really great. So I began to think about this. What began to happen? We'll pick on Rob Bell, since whatever. We're not. God is not paying off Satan to get Jesus back. Jesus is being ransomed from. We're being ransomed from the wrath of God.

C (23:30)

That's right.

A (23:31)

We are saved by God. Yay. We are saved to God. Yay. We are saved from God. Everybody's like, wait, what? Yeah, that's where people at. Rob Bell, just in case you don't know, he was like a real famous. He was the evangelical darling for a while because he's such a good storyteller. He has ideas in his mind about what he wants God the Father to be like. And there are some verses about God's wrath and justice against sin that he just doesn't like. It just does not line up with his mental picture of what he wants God to be like. And so instead of reading verses and saying, well, that's bothersome to my own intellect, but it just says what it says instead. He does some hermeneutical gymnastics to make sure that it molds towards the kind of God that he wants to be. The one true God. Yeah. Because it's interesting, right before this, it says, there's only one God, man. So I Bell, you don't get to make you up your own God, you know? And so once again, you're saved by God. Praise God for that. You're saved to God. I mean, he's the prize. And you are saved from God's wrath on you that you earned.

C (24:53)

That's right. And that you can't get yourself out of.

A (24:55)

Correct.

C (24:56)

So praise God. He ransomed you from that.

A (24:59)

Yeah, he's the just and the justifier. Yeah.

B (25:01)

It's almost like if you think it's Satan that you're being ransomed from, you're just not looking high enough. Because it's true. It is true that you're being ransomed from Satan, but Satan's a pawn in the hands of God to exercise his sovereign plan. Just like.

A (25:15)

Yeah, you're also kind of ransomed from your own self. I mean, it's all self afflicted wounds. Right. Like you ran, you disobeyed you.

C (25:23)

Yeah, yeah. I love in this, you go Back to Psalm 49, verse 7. I love this. Truly, no man can ransom another. I mean, this isn't like the New Testament came up with this idea of ransom by God. Like you go all the way back. God has always said, sin will put you in a position where nobody else can save you. And he says, or truly no man can ransom another or give to God the price of his life. You can't ransom yourself for the ransom of their life is costly and can never suffice. And I just went, I just literally wrote, Jesus is can.

B (26:05)

Right, Right. And to the other point about tools in God's hand, just read, you know, Deuteronomy and Isaiah through the lens of God uses what he does to exercise his wrath. He talks about, I'm going to raise up this evil king to come punish you, Israel. Yeah, you know what I mean? But it's still God doing the wrath. Executing. Yeah, it's all in his hands.

C (26:28)

Yeah. And you go on in 49 and 15, says, but God, which I always love those phrases. Like they're the. But God will ransom my soul from the power of Sheol, for he will receive me. Like, because God ransoms you, you get set free from the final enemy of death and you get received by God.

A (26:53)

I forget the, the guy's name. I should know it because I included it in one of my books. But do you remember the story, the guy was on death row and one of the presidents pardoned him. Yeah, but he didn't. But the guy didn't receive it.

C (27:06)

Oh yeah.

A (27:06)

And went all the way to the Supreme Court and they were like, a pardon offered is not a pardon until a pardon is received. It just made me think of this because here's that all language again. He gave himself a Ransom for all. That's not the only verse about salvation.

B (27:21)

Yeah.

A (27:21)

To all who believe will receive the right to be called children of God. So do you have to do something? Well, you have to receive it. You know, that is it.

C (27:33)

Right.

A (27:34)

So, you know, and then what happens is. So really smart theologians have to make up words to talk about how Christ can die for all on the cross, but only those who believe are saved. So they talked about. They talk about general call and effective call and. But. But just. I'm a big fan of just like, the. Just use the words that are right here in the Bible. Okay. And so if that bothers you, well, then, you know, create your own universe and make up the rules. I don't know. Like, this is just what it says about. About who God is about salvation and.

C (28:10)

And Jesus himself. I mean, he says it in Mark 10:45. He said he gives his life a ransom for many. That's what he does. And so, I mean, this all in many. Like, we don't have to reconcile those.

A (28:23)

You just go, yep, yep, yep. That's it.

B (28:26)

Yeah.

C (28:27)

And you fought with the price.

A (28:28)

Anytime, you know, again, somebody gets saved, they get really excited. They start listening. If they're listening to me, they're probably also listening to all the other, like, you know, kind of Chandler Piper reform kind of guys. I mean, it's our same kind of world. And then. And then they. They get. Somebody gives them a little copy of Tulip, kind of for dummies, and they get to L. And they just. Their head explodes. What do you mean, limited atonement? Limited atonement. I'm like. And they will you believe in limited atonement? But of course, I think it's unlimited limited atonement. But. But you got to understand what the word atonement means. It just means to pay for. So when Jesus died on the cross, were all the sins of all people effectively paid for? So all go to heaven. You don't believe that, do you? Right. Believers go to heaven. Right, Right. So then how. So then why did Calvin come up with that word? So the. The example I use. And again, every illustration falls apart. But just hang with me. Let's say I put an ad in the paper. Free subs from Angie Subs. This Wednesday, all you got to do is take this coupon, redeem it, and you get a free sub. Then I show up Thursday and say, all right, Ed, what do I owe you? Well, do I pay for atone for everybody in Jacksonville? No, because they did not redeem their coupon. I atone for the limited amount of people that received my invitation to get a free stuff. That's it. The offer was to anybody. But the atonement was for those who received. So that doesn't mean his love is limited. It's just, by definition, if one person ever rejected Jesus, then the atonement was limited. It was all of humanity minus one.

B (30:17)

So, and it's. It's like Paul is going to sum up those two images, the mediator and the ransom, and he's going to use the word testimony. He said, this is the testimony given at the proper time, which I love. What does that mean? Unpack that a little bit. What's the testimony? Why is he saying at the proper time?

C (30:39)

Well, I mean, we just came out of Christmas and God sends his Son at just the right moment. I mean, that's what it says in the Christmas story. Like, it wasn't haphazard, it wasn't random. God knew the moment from all eternity that would be the day, the time at which his Son would be born into this world, live his years, a perfect life, die on the cross, be resurrected, ascend. And so part of that is you can rest in a God that is in perfect control, like, it is the proper time. He did it at the proper moment. He's not a random, haphazard God. He's a God that knows exactly what he's doing with his creation. And so there is so much comfort, there's so much assurance. Like when your world feels like it's just spinning out of control and you have no idea what's going on, you can go, yeah, Everything he's done is at the proper moment and proper time.

A (31:53)

I think the best illustration of that is the cross itself.

C (31:58)

Yes.

A (31:59)

I mean, you've all heard this before, but if you were there, if you were@golgotha 2000 years ago and you saw and you believed that Jesus was God and you were pumped for the miracles and you, you know, were part of the 5,000 and you saw him walk on water, whatever, all the things. You would look at the death of the Son of God on the cross and you would be tempted to think, God, what are you doing? Have you lost control? Yep. And in actuality, what was happening is Romans 8:28. In that moment, God was at work in the death of his Son for the good of those that love him are called according to his purpose. Like, he's redeeming the world there. So. And I love it. Even Jordan Peterson will say that is the most tragic event that has ever happened. In all of humanity. And there's nothing worse that can happen because you take the best person who has ever lived and you do the worst thing to him you could ever do. Like, not only physically, but he was betrayed by a friend, he was betrayed by a government, he was betrayed by his religion. He was innocent, and yet they called him guilty. He was spat upon, he was beaten, his hair was ripped out, he was humiliated, he was shamed. He was like, you know, you just. And at no point did he ever deserve it. Okay, so if God had a purpose and a plan and not just like a kind of a purpose and a plan, you know, like, oh, no, I left late and I got a good parking spot. This isn't the kind of like, if then situation we're talking about here.

C (33:29)

Right.

A (33:31)

So if God was still sovereignly in control and those of us study the Bible are not. No, I mean, it was prophesied in detail, of course. Then can you trust him with what's going on in your life and trust that he has perfect timing even when you don't understand what he's doing in your life right now? I love that song. There's one of the songs we sing. I don't know what you're doing, but I know what you've done. I mean, that's it, man. That's the light. When you look around today and you're like, I don't see your perfect timing, but you look at the cross, you're like, but I know what you've done. So surely I can believe that you're.

C (34:09)

For me, I mean, I remember I walked through this a couple years ago. I mean, you guys know, like, I went through first round of cancer and all that. And at that moment I would go, all right, I've got 45 years, give or take, you know, whatever, of believing that God is sovereign. I got degrees and all of that and books and everything. And I just go, all right, is it gonna hold weight? And then. It does. It does. The alternative is either God is in control and he's got it, even when it feels like he doesn't, or he doesn't, which is terrifying and is terrifying.

B (34:54)

That is terrifying.

C (34:55)

I would 100 times out of a hundred wanna walk through some of the scariest things and go, and. And not be able to wrap my brain around God being sovereign over that, then to walk through that and go, he doesn't have it.

A (35:13)

I think. I think this word testimony matters a lot. You know, we love to quote Revelation and they will overcome by the blood of the Lamb of the word of their testimony, and love not their lives, even unto death. And then he's going to go on. I mean, there's a little bit of a link here between six and seven testimony. And I was appointed a preacher, a storyteller, a proclaimer of the testimony. Because when you are going through the valley of the shadow of death, don't you remember and look to the testimony of other men and women who have been faithful and walked through it?

B (35:43)

Yeah.

A (35:45)

Something always hits me. Is Jo crazy Uncle Josh who preaches here sometimes? You know, he had a. He has a severely handicapped daughter. And we were buddies when. When his wife Becca was pregnant with her and they had no idea, you know. And then it hits. And all the things, man. And he would wrestle through his big question. And it's one thing for me to have a theological idea about it. He would ask, did God cause this or allow this? And I was like, I don't know why that question you think is going to make you feel better, but whatever. He can ask whatever he wants. He's the dad. This kid they told, you know, whatever. Now riley's like maybe 16, 15. She just preached at a. By the way.

C (36:36)

Yeah, she's at her student event.

A (36:38)

Great, dude. They told her first. They told her she wouldn't live but a minute, then a little while. They never walk. Now she. I mean, she's incredible. What God's doing any. You know what. Like his baseline answer, if you ask him. All right, so what have you learned through all of this? It. With no pretense or arrogance, he'll say, the biggest thing I've learned is I love Jesus. Like, that's his foundation. You know what?

C (37:04)

I'm gonna go. You have the words.

A (37:05)

That's it. Dude, I love Jesus. I wish circumstances would be different. I don't know why he would decide to do it this way. One day we'll know, right? One day. One day we'll get to heaven. I got questions, you know, but one day, man, we're gonna see it. And you don't need to ask because you'll know in full. And you'll be like, look at him. He did it again. So that. That's a part, I think, of this testimony of the mediator and the ransoming effect of Christ.

B (37:34)

I think it's. Tim Keller used the illustration of if you have a small kid and they ask you for candy and you say no, and they get upset, and you think about the difference between your understanding of goodness and the plan that you have for their day or for their life or whatever. And they understand the child has whatever gap that is.

A (37:54)

Oh, yeah.

B (37:55)

It's like infinitely more between us. And God's under, like. But we would make the same decisions he makes if we had the information he knows. And we're. And we're pure. Good that like. Like he is.

A (38:06)

I think it's key, though, Binky, your desire for your kid is good. One of the questions. You guys have been enough Bible studies with me to know I. I'll ask often. Where are you not believing the gospel? So I rarely have any kind of hiccups on. Did, like, did it count for me or was it enough? Or am I not. Whatever the desire thing is where I will doubt the go, I will not believe the gospel. Like, sometimes I feel so blessed. I'm like, surely some kind of great calamity must be coming my way to teach me a lesson because I have so much to learn. You know what I mean? And you got like, whoa, hold on, hold on. His. And it may. But either way, his desire, like, God loves me, wants me, delights over me, wants what's best for me for his glory. But I don't know that we think a lot about the way God feels. In fact, we especially the three of us, kind of in the way our bent towards preaching and the Bible is the feeling preachers get on our nerves. You know what I mean? Because they make up feelings that God doesn't say he feels that way. So, you know, I mean, right.

B (39:23)

Yeah, yeah.

A (39:25)

But desire is a feel word.

B (39:26)

Yeah.

A (39:27)

Like when you desire a cupcake, that's not like an ontological kind. That is. Yeah, there's something going on in the inside. Gives me butterfly feelings towards this thing or whatever he desires.

B (39:41)

Yeah.

A (39:43)

Us. And. And he desires all people be safe so that we're together. Like, we get him, he gets us. And it's good to keep in mind that whole, like, he's a good dad, man. He's a good dad, loves his kids.

C (39:58)

And I think too, when this idea of testimony is that Jesus is the perfect testimony, he is the image of the invisible God. Right? And there's so much about God, even as God is graciously revealed in scripture, where you're just like, really? And one of the places you just run back to is when you get there is run back to Jesus. And look at Jesus. He is the perfect testimony of God. And you can trust it in his mediation and ransom, in his life, death, and resurrection. Those things happened. And so you can trust his word about God. You can trust his reflection of who God is. And so when you get confused, when life feels like I can't reconcile this whole thing or I don't understand how you. The all and the many, all that, and you just go, I get it. Go back to Jesus. Go back. He. He is the perfect testimony.

A (41:01)

Yeah, that reminds me of Psalm 42.

C (41:06)

This.

A (41:06)

As the deer pants for the water. Which is not a psalm about peaceful deer. It's not as the deer. It's not. It's. This deer thinks it's going to die and it's on the run for its life. And its desire is just. If I could just get a sip of water, maybe I can stay alive for another day. And, you know, these psalms are so true and so real. My soul is cast down within me. But then where he goes is. Therefore, I remember you at one point in verse five. I mean, listen how crazy this sounds. Why are you cast down on my soul? Because the circumstances are jacked. Right. And why are you in turmoil within me? By the way, we want you to know this is the kind of church where you can ask those kind of questions, like, it's okay to not be okay. And then he gives himself a command like he's talking to his soul. Hope in God, for I shall again praise him. My. You know what the Hebrew word there is? My Yeshua and my God, the Hebrew word for Jesus, for salvation. Yeah, Jesus, God, saves are the same word. So they don't even know in, like, David's time. They're. They're. They're like, hey, when your circumstances are crazy and you're desperate, there will be a day where what you want to do is just come face to face with Jesus. Yeah, that. That is your hope. The way that you're going to hope in God is because Jesus came on a rescue mission as your mediator, in ransom.

C (42:46)

And you get. You get to the end. You get to Revelation 2, 3, 4, and the letters to the churches, right? And he's like, this is good. This I have against you. And what he says over and over again. Turn around and remember. Turn around. Remember, like, put your eyes back. You want to solve this problem? Turn around. Put your eyes back on Jesus.

B (43:09)

It also made me think of Galatians. We studied Galatians and. But the timing, you know, in Galatians 4, it says, when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his son born of woman, born of the law, to redeem those under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons.

C (43:27)

It's a great Christmas passage that nobody Ever picks up. It's a great.

A (43:32)

Yeah, yeah.

C (43:32)

That and just, you know, to crush the enemy. This is the Christmas passages. Nobody wants to.

A (43:37)

I love it.

B (43:38)

And he's talking about the gospel, he's talking about the testimony. And then he gives this phrase that's been confusing to me, so y' all help me. He says, I was appointed a preacher and apostle. That's not confusing.

A (43:50)

I ain't lying.

B (43:50)

He says, I'm telling the truth. I'm not lying. It's like I was assuming that you weren't lying. You know, you are writing in the Bible.

C (43:58)

Peter said your scripture. We're assuming you're good.

B (44:01)

So why go on this little aside for that defense of the truth of what he's saying?

C (44:08)

I mean, I think one way you can look at it is to go, what he just said is so unbelievable. Like, he's going, I know this blows every category because honestly, every other religious system in the world, everything we would make up would be some form of self justification, some form of, I gotta work my way to God. I gotta. And God goes, I got a mediator coming to you, and I'm gonna do everything for you. And then he just goes. It's like he can anticipate everybody going, no way, Paul. It's too good to be true. And he goes, I'm not lying. I'm not lying.

B (44:56)

I swear.

C (44:56)

I swear, God, it. I saw him. It's really.

A (45:00)

And especially. Well, there's a couple things. One is, he's also mimicking Jesus because, you know, in our New Testament translations, it'll English, it'll say, truly, truly. It'll say to you. But it's, I tell the truth. Truth. And when you put two words together, it was. It was to modify, to say, this is a really big, big deal. Okay? I'm telling you the truth. Similar to, he who has ears, let him hear, right? So he's doing a little bit of that. But he's also training up Timothy to be the pastor in Ephesus. And there's going to be a bunch of Gentiles coming. And he's like, so remember what he's talking about? God's desires for all people, to ransom all people. I'm telling you the truth, man. Even the Gentiles. That's where he's going to go next. Yeah, like I've been appointed. Listen, all means all. There's no asterisk besides all. And so even those Gentiles that you've been told your whole life were somehow out, they're not out. If they put their faith in Jesus. They're in just like me and you were in.

C (45:55)

Yeah, in, in faith.

A (45:58)

Interesting.

C (45:58)

People are going to come in here and say it's works.

A (46:00)

Yeah.

C (46:01)

And you got to get to the law and you got to act like I'm telling you the truth. It's faith.

B (46:06)

Yeah.

C (46:06)

And it's. And it's for the. Like you just said, the Gentile. It's so good.

A (46:09)

Yep.

C (46:09)

It's so good.

B (46:10)

I want to just. Let's unpack that just a little bit more because that stood out to me as well because he's, he makes a point to say teacher the Gentiles. And Paul's a Jew of Jews, you know, a very, very high ranking Jewish teacher. So the significance of him being called as a minister to the Gentiles, you know, in Acts it says here, Peter, you take the, you take Jerusalem, I'll take the rest.

A (46:31)

Ready, Burke?

B (46:32)

And. But he's called to administer the Gentiles and then he says he's. It's true for the Gentiles and faith and truth. So unpack that a little bit more because it's so rich.

A (46:42)

Well, the bar is not lowered for the Gentiles.

C (46:44)

Right.

A (46:44)

It's not like. Well, you listen, they're not. You guys are going to be. You get your masters and they're just getting their bachelor's in this. You know, that's not what it is like. We're all called to one family. We're going to tear down the, the wall of division that were all adopted that Gentiles like me and you are grafted into the family of faith that was promised to Abraham. But I mean the apostle Paul just had a real. It's crazy. He wasn't even there for the Great Commission. And he gets the Great Commission better than the guys that got that listened to it. I also think the total this conjecture on my part because the Bible's over there. This is just me. When God picking people, God designs people, gives them desires and experiences and history and all for the sake of his glory. And that plays out in the calling in our life. Right. So Jesus originally picks ordinary uneducated men and then he's going to take this thing worldwide and he picks a boss, a guy with a law degree, Pharisee of Pharisees of the right tribe, all those things. Knows his Bible way better than all the other disciples. And he was also an expert. He's going to end up running for his life from the authorities that are trying to kill him all the time. But what did he do before that, he chased down the people. You know, you want to get a bad guy that knows how to elude the cops, or you want to get a cop knows how to catch the bad guys, you get one that used to know how to elude all the cops. You know what I mean? And so God, this is back to the. Like, at the proper time. God did not waste one ounce of Paul's rebellion. Pre Jesus, pre Damascus Road. He was actually training him for the mission that he had to take the gospel everywhere. Yeah.

C (48:36)

And if you kind of run this backwards right from this moment and you go back, so you get back to Acts 1:8, you'll be my witnesses, testimony, witnesses. The courtroom where he said in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, to the ends of the earth. Back up a little bit for that. Jesus goes, okay, go make disciples of all nations, all ethnicities of the world. And then you run it all the way back, which Paul would have known all the way back to Abraham. You were talking about this in Genesis 12. And he's going, this thing I'm going to do you. Israel will be a light to all. All the nations. And here he is doing what he said he was going to do all the way back in Genesis.

A (49:21)

We should also mention that at the proper time has some real historical significance. But then I also push you just a little bit personally. So at the proper time. Galatians says a very similar thing. If you look at the historical realities of a Roman occupied world in the first century with things like Pax Romana, first time that's ever happened in the history of humanity, that you could travel, I mean, the majority of the world and have the protection of Rome so you don't die. A road system was put in. Greek and Latin or Greek had taken over, and so you could speak in one language almost everywhere. This is why Paul does the trade routes, because it's like the mail route. It all goes out. I mean, all these kind of papyrus and scrolls are happening like never before. So the timing, you just can't make that up. Well, you know. You know, I'm glad you mentioned the word witness in my courtroom analysis. The one role you play, it's the only thing. You're not the judge, you're not the accuser, you're not the defender, you're not the mediator. But when the judge calls on you, you give testimony as a witness.

B (50:33)

Yeah. A great study is to look at acts and to see how many times they. They use that word.

A (50:38)

Correct.

B (50:39)

Of this. We were witnesses.

A (50:40)

Right.

B (50:41)

You know, whether or not. It's right to do what you say or not. We can't help but speak of what we've seen.

A (50:46)

I was just. I was just with a guy. Adam and I were just with a great pastor named Jason shepherd at. It's called Church Project in the Woodlands, Texas. And he's got a website called Good God Gospel. And it's. It trains up believers on how to have a good conversation, which is this weekend to a God conversation, and then take it to a gospel conversation.

C (51:10)

Yep.

A (51:10)

And he's got all these P words. I'm not going to be able to remember them all. But it's like we. We prepare. So we get ready to. We pray. We, I think present. It's another P word. But. But the last thing he says is, but we never push people beyond where they are ready to respond. This is very much just like the testimony of Jesus was at the proper time. Acts 18 says, you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you. So there's a prompting of the Spirit that we just can't force as we give witness and testimony. And so I thought that was very helpful as I was in conversation with him this week, that we. Our job is not to push people beyond where they're ready to respond. Our job is to pray, is to prepare, to pray, to present the gospel, share our stories, and then just trust the Spirit of God is the prompter to make change.

C (52:10)

And if. I mean, just on this gentile thing, if this doesn't happen, we're not here. We're gentiles. I mean, this is us. We're the non Jewish people. And so thank God Paul did what he did. And because we get to worship Jesus because of this statement. That's true. And it was for the Gentiles.

A (52:40)

Amen.

B (52:41)

The thing you were saying, Pastor Joby, goes back to the conversation about sovereignty and the freedom of sovereignty. That frees you up in a lot of ways, but especially when you're trying to pray and share your faith. The fact that you can trust that God's going to do what God's going to do at the right time.

A (52:59)

Right.

B (52:59)

That the pressure is not on me to close a deal. Like, I'm not.

C (53:03)

Nope.

B (53:03)

I'm not selling them a car.

C (53:04)

Nope.

B (53:05)

It's. It's going to be at the right time. He will do what he's going to do.

A (53:09)

I would say it the other way, too. I think it also pushes you to action sometimes.

B (53:12)

Yeah.

A (53:13)

If you're sensitive to the spirit of God. Sometimes the spirit of God is like close the deal, dude.

B (53:18)

Right?

A (53:18)

Like spirits more ready than you are. You can, right? Like you can. Not only should you try to be sensitive and know when I don't want to push beyond where a person's ready to respond, but also, I mean, take the ball over the goal line, bro, let's go. You know, like, if you sense that's where the Lord is taking this thing, he's in control of either. So you don't have to have any fear in saying, are you ready to surrender your life to Christ right now? Yeah. Because he might save them.

C (53:49)

And if he doesn't. Okay, that was not the proper time, Lord. And I go put my head down on a pillow and go to sleep.

A (53:58)

I've had people ask me about, you know, do you do a salvation invitation at the end of every service? I'm like, no, right. And, and, and, or, and then there'll be other times. There's like six weeks in a row or something. And well meaning people, they're not being terrible, but they're like, shouldn't we kind of let it stack up for a few weeks? And I'm like, no, that's not how that works. Kind of the MO around here for the preachers are, is when the text goes there, we go there, you know, And I mean you can do it whenever you want, but, but that's what we're trying to do. We're, we're trying to like walk in rhythm with this. Like this text is about salvation. Do you want to be saved? And I also don't want it to just be like some little random tack on thing at the end of every time you talk, you know.

C (54:43)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

B (54:45)

Well, speaking of going where this is going, I mean this, what's so cool is that this is kind of a prayer sandwich, you know, he says he's talking about prayer. He, he lays this amazing foundation of the gospel message and then his ministry to, you know, as an apostle and then goes into another instruction about prayer as the text goes on. So we're going to close in prayer in just a minute, but any closing thoughts before we do that?

A (55:11)

Let me give you a warning. Men in this year of stand firm and act like men. He, as a result of coming to the miraculous realization that Jesus died in your place and paid your ransom and was the mediator between your, you and God. Men. The normative right response is that men should pray lifting holy hands. So get ready.

B (55:42)

Yeah, you can put them up for the, for the Jags game. Then you can for sure put them.

A (55:48)

Up for prayer yeah. And you can do it every week at church.

C (55:54)

Amen.

B (55:56)

You want to close us in prayer?

C (55:57)

I'd love to. Let's. Let's pray for all people and kings and rulers. Yeah, let's go. Heavenly Father, thank you that we can come to you through your son, Jesus Christ, by the power of the spirit and need no one else, because he is our mediator and ransom. And so we honor you, glorify you, bless you, praise you for that. And if that's all you did, it would be so much more than enough for us. But Lord, that you would tell us to pray. And so, Lord, we pray for all people. We pray for all, all people. Pray for those in our lives that are far from you, Jesus, to come to know you. Lord, we pray for our rulers, local governing men and women, federal governing employees. Lord, we. We pray for them. We pray for rulers of nations all over the world because you asked us to. And so, Lord, we lay them before you, praying that they would make God glorifying decisions. Thank you. That we get to sit around a table, marvel at Jesus, talk about him. And I pray that things that we talk about would be edifying, benefiting to the people that hurt it today. Right? In Jesus name, amen.

A (57:19)

Thank you for listening to the podcast the End.

B (57:22)

You nailed it.