Podcast Summary: Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: What Does It Mean To Be Truly Free? (S23E4)
Date: October 6, 2025
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Guests: Panel includes pastors/worship leaders from Church of Eleven22
Main Focus: Exploring the nature of true freedom in Christ, the war between flesh and spirit as seen in Romans 7-8, and how worship, honesty, and grace intersect for the Christian life—using the hymn "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" and deep discussion of biblical metaphors.

Episode Overview

This episode takes a heartfelt and honest journey into the meaning of true freedom as described by Paul in Romans, especially the tension in Romans 7-8. Pastor Joby and guests use the classic hymn "Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing" as a lyrical and theological framework, exploring metaphors of blessing, spiritual thirst, wandering, tuning, and grace. They candidly discuss sanctification, personal struggles with sin, the role of honest confession, and how gospel-rooted worship shapes real Christian freedom.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Freedom, Worship, and Gratitude

• The team reflects on the themes of Romans and the rich metaphors in "Come Thou Fount," noting how worship and gratitude are inseparable.

  • “You basically cannot separate gratitude and worship. But I don’t think gratitude comes naturally. I think entitlement is the natural bent of the human heart.” — Pastor Joby Martin [02:19]

• God as “the Fount of Every Blessing” is contrasted with modern, self-reliant thinking; blessings flow not from within or from works but from God alone.

  • Discussion of how, biblically, water and blessing were precious—reminding listeners not to take the spiritual “fountain” for granted [06:24].

2. Metaphor: Tuning the Heart

• They riff on the hymn line “Tune my heart to sing Thy grace,” using the analogy of tuning instruments to an absolute standard.

  • “I’m just guessing, the chances of a piano or a bow accidentally finding itself in tune is not possible.” — Joby Martin [11:21]

• Conversation delves into how “tuning” to God’s truth means active, continual, intentional adjustment, not default or accident, especially as the world’s influences pull believers out of spiritual alignment.

  • “Letting the Holy Spirit of God, you know, turn the knobs a little bit and get you back where you need to be.” [14:11]

3. Romans 7, Struggle, and Vulnerability

• Authentic admission of ongoing sin struggles is highlighted as a key part of Christian maturity.

  • “I preach the guts out of my own guts. I mean, that’s what I do... That the song means ten times as much to me now knowing that...his testimony is that even later in life he was still prone to wander from the God he loves.” — Joby Martin [05:59]
  • “It was helpful to me when I finally realized that the conviction of sin and the struggle of sin is more evidence of the Spirit of God at work in me than the things I ever got right.” — Joby Martin [17:49]

• They critique church cultures where vulnerability is rare and leaders model only victory, confusing congregants who experience struggle.

  • “It made me feel like I might not actually be a Christian for a long time because I never heard anybody say they struggled…” [15:46]

4. Legalism and Holiness – How Much Is Too Much?

• Extensive dialogue about legalism as a personal discipline vs. an imposed requirement.
  • “There are some things in your life you should be a legalist about...Legalism is when I apply what is beneficial to me as a necessity to you and measure your salvation based on what might be beneficial to my sanctification.” — Joby Martin [29:14, 30:24]
  • “The struggle happens in the, you know, moments leading up to the decision point, right?” [26:25]

5. Joy, Discipline, and the End of Means

• The purpose of discipline is unpacked—not to earn God’s favor but to experience joy and fruit. Using illustrations of athletics and music:
  • “The means become the end.” — Panelist [34:07]
  • “The white-knuckle pursuit of obedience for obedience sake will just reveal your humanity…Abiding in Christ, you’ll find victories in areas of your life you never dreamed you could have victory in.” — Joby Martin [49:29]

6. True Freedom = Slavery to Christ?

• Paradox of true freedom found in full surrender and loving obedience to Christ. They give practical, personal, and biblical examples:
  • “If you want to be the freest man ever, become a slave to Christ and you will be completely set free.” — Joby Martin [51:22]
  • Personal testimonies about how what outsiders see as “restriction” is actually the source of deepest joy (e.g., in marriage or Christian disciplines) [54:17–56:58].

7. Evangelism, Brokenness, and the Search for Meaning

• Candid stories of sharing Christ with others—highlighting that brokenness (personal failure, hitting bottom) often makes people most open to Jesus.

  • “The best question I ever ask is, so how’s that working for you?” [41:02]

• Romans 1 and 10 are discussed: general revelation points all to God, but only the gospel saves; people are “tuning” their lives to some standard, inevitably confronted with Jesus.

  • “We all tune our life to something. Don’t we all agree there’s good and bad. Okay. As compared to what? That’s where [Paul] starts.” [43:10]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Grace and Struggle:

  • “That the conviction of sin and the struggle of sin is more evidence of the spirit of God at work in me than the things I ever got right.” — Joby Martin [17:49]

• On Legalism:

  • “There’s almost no such thing as personal legalism...Legalism is a real gift if you only apply it to you.” — Joby Martin [28:15]

• On Worship/Abiding:

  • “So man getting in front of this Word and letting...the Holy Spirit of God, you know, turn the knobs a little bit and get you back where you need to be.” [14:11]

• On Vulnerability:

  • “My favorite is Jim Bergen because he leads with a limp, man. He’s like, anybody else on the struggle bus. Me too. And for real, you know.” — Joby Martin [19:25]

• On Living Water (Jeremiah 2):

  • “People have forsaken me, the fountain of living water. And then they’ve dug for themselves broken cisterns that can’t hold water.” [62:43]

• On Freedom in Christ:

  • “You’re like a thirsty man complaining of giving up thirst for a drink of water. It doesn’t make any sense. Trust me, this is better than what you think you’re giving up. It’s actually the source of freedom…” — Joby Martin [54:17]

• On Pastoral/Eternal Joy:

  • “I have no greater joy than to hear my children are walking in the truth. Think about who wrote that. That dude ate the last supper with Jesus… and yet the first thing that comes to his mind… is ‘I hear my kids are walking in truth.’” — Joby Martin (regarding 3 John 4) [60:32]

Important Timestamps

• Discussing "Come Thou Fount" & Worship [01:18–04:26]
• Water and the Biblical Landscape [06:24–10:00]
• Tuning the Heart Metaphor [10:04–14:36]
• Romans 7, Struggle, and Church Honesty [14:58–19:25]
• Legalism & Personal Discipline vs. Corporate Standards [28:15–31:45]
• Means, Joy, Discipline [33:50–34:37]
• On Freedom = Slavery to Christ [51:22–54:17]
• Testimonies about True Joy in Christ [54:17–57:32]
• Living Water & Wandering Sheep [62:43–64:14]

Conclusion

Tone:
The episode is conversational, vulnerable, and rich with scriptural references, practical wisdom, and “real talk” about the struggles and joys of Christian living. Joby Martin and the team model a grace-filled and highly relatable style, inviting listeners not to hide struggles and to seek honest community, sanctifying disciplines, and gladly-surrendered life in Christ.

Core Takeaway:
True freedom comes not from the absence of restraint, but from being joyfully “bound” to Christ—honestly admitting our need, regularly “re-tuning” our hearts, and celebrating the grace that pursues us even when we wander.

Recommended For:
Anyone wrestling with questions of faith, authenticity, sanctification, legalism, or freedom—especially Christians seeking more honest community and deeper roots in both gospel grace and spiritual discipline.