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- [00:01]
Pastor Joby Martin
Welcome to Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin. The Church of 1122 is a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ. And we're praying this message helps you deepen your relationship with him. Now let's dive in.
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Host 1
Well, Merry Christmas, pastors.
- [00:19]
Pastor Joby Martin
Merry Christmas, Merry crema.
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Host 1
It is a time of gratitude, and I'm grateful for both of you.
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Pastor Joby Martin
Thank you.
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Host 1
Well, and I hope you have a wonderful Christmas with your families.
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Host 2
Likewise, brother.
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Host 1
I have loved the bumper videos that we have done for this series. Are you guys into those? You remember the original ones?
- [00:40]
Host 2
Real men of genius. We're back, baby.
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Host 1
Let's go.
- [00:43]
Host 2
I think I've heard a lot about them.
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Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah.
- [00:45]
Host 2
I mean, people are into them.
- [00:47]
Pastor Joby Martin
The. The quality of our video team is. It's just so unbelievable. Like, it's better. It's better. I don't know. They're better than the original videos.
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Host 1
Yeah.
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Host 2
The guys. The guy singing in the studio, Tommy, he. When he. We have some incredible video folks. We also have some incredible worship leaders.
- [01:08]
Pastor Joby Martin
No doubt. Yeah.
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Host 2
Tommy, when we were doing the men's conference, Drew Parker, who's been nominated for Grammys and been on tour with all the people, and he's like, a thing in Nashville, he was here leading at the men's conference, and they were rehearsing, and Tommy started singing, and Drew just snaps his head over and looks at me, and he was like, that's the best vocalist I've ever heard in my entire life. That's something.
- [01:33]
Pastor Joby Martin
And, I mean, you know, his best friend is Luke Combs.
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Host 2
Yeah, Right.
- [01:37]
Pastor Joby Martin
Pretty good singer. Yeah.
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Host 2
So it really turned out great. It's actually really hard to do video, like, church video. Funny.
- [01:46]
Pastor Joby Martin
Well, very.
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Host 2
It's very hard to do.
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Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah.
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Host 2
And, man, our guys nailed it, so I'm so proud of them.
- [01:52]
Pastor Joby Martin
No doubt. It's really good. You also have to have the kind of church that cannot take themselves too seriously and receive some humor, you know?
- [02:01]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [02:02]
Pastor Joby Martin
Which ours does really well. They've been trained in it since 2012, but good on them.
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Host 2
Yeah. I think it's one of the things that you do just so naturally. Well, you're just so naturally funny that we've never had to, like, try to be funny as a church because you're just so witty, you know, Your brain is just so sharp, and you're so witty. And so it's been. And I think humor is the language of the heart or one of the languages of the heart.
- [02:30]
Pastor Joby Martin
And so it definitely drops defenses. Totally. I mean, I can see it. I can See somebody on the third row, it's always a dude. And they're kind of. They're. They're like arms are crossed and they're super defensive. And then they laugh a little bit and then they're leaning in and. And I've had people like, when do you write your jokes? I'm like, I don't write jokes. I don't. I mean, if you read my notes, there's not like punchline here. I mean, I don't do that. I just talk. But I was. I mean, I was raised around a storytelling family, you know, so. And country people just have all those little country proverb one liner things, you know, so that's just in there. So if you shake me up, that's what comes out.
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Host 2
Love it.
- [03:12]
Host 1
Well, it's great to have you back in the. In the pulpit, Pastor Joby.
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Host 2
Amen.
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Host 1
Talking about the Magi, the wise men, we three kings.
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Host 2
Maybe not kings.
- [03:22]
Pastor Joby Martin
Maybe definitely not kings. Maybe three. Other than that, it's great. And the star didn't come in the east. They would have gone Easter. The star would have been in the west for them.
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Host 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [03:34]
Pastor Joby Martin
Other than we got it all wrong.
- [03:36]
Host 2
You're totally right.
- [03:36]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. Manger scene. They're not at the manger. It's not three kings. It's like one guy was comedy sketch. And they were probably all of the same ethnicity. If you ever watch, like, the big, you know, the manger scenes, one guy's black, one guy's like, Asian, and one guy's white. And they all have like these extraordinary outfits on. In fact, tradition gives them names. Like, you can look up their names and people just make stuff up, man. They just completely make stuff up.
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Host 1
Balthazar is one of them.
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Host 2
Yeah, that's one of the names.
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Host 1
I don't know the other ones.
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Host 2
I know there was a movie like Journey to Bethlehem or something. It was like a. It's kind of a kids movie, but it's real humans and they. They like, had like their historical name.
- [04:17]
Pastor Joby Martin
I'm like, where do you get this from? That's not it.
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Host 1
So, Pastor Joey, talk a little bit more about what you learned about the connection to Daniel and.
- [04:24]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, so in the Babylonian exile, Nebuchadnezzar takes over. You know, it's really. God allows Israel to be sacked because of their disobedience, as he promised he would. And so Nebuchadnezzar would take the best and the brightest. This is where we get Shadrach, Meshach, Abednego and Daniel and others in the book of Daniel. And would, you know, he would enslave people, but he would take like their best and brightest and re. Indoctrinate them in the Babylonian way, you know, so. Which was honestly, it's pretty common. This is why, by the way, with like David and Goliath, you see this hero warfare and it's 1v1. So that if my team wins, I don't lose the spoils, which are those people that could work for us.
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Host 1
That's right.
- [05:09]
Pastor Joby Martin
So, so Daniel, after Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego make it through the fiery furnace. The, the kind of turns to Daniel. Nebuchadnezzar is having these crazy dreams and stuff. And so a part of what the Magi did, it's where we get the word magician and all throughout the Old Testament, if the word magic or, or astrology or any of that comes up, it's always negative. All right. I think it's six times in the book of Daniel that same word is used. But there it's not wise men. Like, like these guys knew many things about many things. It was an official government position that worked directly for the king. After Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar's dream and then Nebuchadnezzar goes crazy for a minute and then regains his right mind and begins to worship Daniel's God. Daniel gets a seat at the table with these. It's like they're theologically trained scientists would be like a modern day way of saying this. So they are looking at the creation and Daniel I think is a. You got to do a little bit of filling in the gaps. Introduces the Old, most of the Old Testament to these folks. Okay. Now that gets passed down year after for 600 years. There is this group of people known as the Magi, the wise men, this government officials, either science, scientific theologians or theological scientists, however you want to say it. And they are studying ancient texts that they have, including the Jewish text that probably they got from Daniel. And they're studying the stars and there's some kind of different type of celestial light that they call a star. In Hebrew it just means like so planets, stars, anything up there that would reflect light would be called stars. It's the same thing. All right.
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Host 1
Same name.
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Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, yeah. And so they go chasing after it. Now here's the thing. In 6 AD there somehow people that study planets know this stuff. It's like Saturn and three planets lined up and made some sort of significant glow in the sky. And it showed up three times that year. And so the only thing a lot of people. It's amazing how much ink is built around what was this thing. It's not the point whatsoever. It probably wasn't a star because if you look at the stars, you know, but because of the rotation of the Earth, stars from our perspective move west to east. Right. Because we're going this way and they're going that way, right? Yeah, yeah, totally. So Bethlehem is south of Jerusalem. They don't go north, south. So it probably wasn't like a star. Like our sun is a star, could be a comet. Some people think that. And the, the, the literature behind it's kind of fascinating because stars are stable and predictable. And so when a comet would come through, I think a comet, they think Halley's comet came through like when Julius Caesar died. And people would see that as, see there's something unpredictable in the sky and we're about to have a new king. Okay, maybe. But regardless, these people with very little bit of evidence, kind of a prophecy out of numbers 24, I think it's verse 17 about a star will rise out of, out of Jacob and a scepter will rise out of Israel, you know, and so they get very little information. They're 800 miles away without stops. If this is a caravan, which because they're government, powerful government officials, they're rolling strong for sure. Lots of people. I think this is why all of Jerusalem was troubled. It's not like three well dressed, different colored men showed up in robes and asked a question. This, this big garrison of people come rolling in, asking questions. They eventually make it to Herod and all of Jerusalem is like, oh, there's about to be a new king, all right. But however, God. Maybe it's the Shekinah, glory of God, he puts it in the sky and says, follow me, you know. But what would hit me like a ton of bricks is with very little information, but just in case it might be true, they, it cost him lots of money. It costs at least 40 days. That would be without days off. That would be without, like rest for their crew. It would take at least 40 days to travel 800 miles. So this is also how we know Matthew's just writing history. So they don't make it there by the manger. By the time they show up, they're in a house. Jesus is a child, not a baby. And they bowed his feet.
- [09:49]
Host 1
Yeah. I'd kind of be more in favor of the miraculous light just because it says it guided them.
- [09:56]
Pastor Joby Martin
Correct. Yeah, Right.
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Host 1
Like, so it seems like it's not dependent on it being nighttime. They didn't like to only travel at night, but whatever. To your point, doesn't matter as much.
- [10:05]
Pastor Joby Martin
But what's weird is how many Christians, especially commentators. I don't know a commentator, so maybe if I meet one.
- [10:14]
Host 1
Well, I do.
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Pastor Joby Martin
Dr. Matt Carter wrote a commentary on something. Titus or something. Anyway.
- [10:18]
Host 2
Molar.
- [10:19]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, I know Molar. He's. But. But what they'll do is. Crazy how you spend all this time talking about the God of miracles and then always try to explain supernatural events naturally. You know what I mean? Like, well, an earthquake happened. Well, you know, there's a fault line. Okay, but what if there wasn't? Does it matter? Or the Red Sea, you know, like. Well, you know, we found the place with the most shallow. What?
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Host 1
Right.
- [10:41]
Pastor Joby Martin
If he can speak everything to existence and you can't explain that, then why are we trying to always explain by natural phenomenon what the Bible says? Now, I think it's fine to say it could be this, this or this, but anyway, so. But, yeah, and so a part of what I want people to do is. Is. Here's the thing. You find what you're looking for. I didn't share this tonight, but I've shared this with you before. I've never found a shark's tooth in my entire life. And I've lived here at the beach since 2003. You know why I've never. Well, kind of. One time, Gretchen made me walk around with her, and I still didn't find any because I didn't look hard, because I think it's kind of dumb, because I don't want to. Who cares?
- [11:24]
Host 1
Never found one either.
- [11:24]
Pastor Joby Martin
And then the moment I said that, I said that in a service one time, people have given me. I got a thousand of these little shark stage people here, and I'm like, I don't want one. Now, if I could go find one of those, you know, those big, like, whatever. Megalodon. Okay, cool. But whatever. And so if you don't look for it, you'll never find it. And this is what happened. Herod's not looking for Jesus. And then what's worse, the religious guys aren't. Because it's going to upset the apple cart for their lives. And so the people that look for Jesus find Jesus because he's not hiding, you know, he's actually looking for you, theologically speaking. But you understand what I'm saying. And so my friend Josh Howerton, who we talked with today, I can't remember who he got this from. I mentioned it for a second tonight, but there was A guy that's kind of proposing. If you've got eyes to see this. Home Alone is a Christian movie, and I love it. And he just uses. I have no idea if the writer of Home Alone intended this, but when you're looking for Jesus, you'll see him. He goes. Macaulay Culkin, whatever his name is. Kevin goes to church. And when he walks into the church, they're singing oh, Holy Night. And a candle passes before him to represent the spirit of God is there. And when he meets the Christ figure, old man, his name's, like, way. Like whatever his name is. The old guy, right? He's. He's salting the earth. Remember, he's putting salt on the sidewalk. And then in the movie, he's got a bandage on his hand. It's never explained. There's blood on both sides. And then this guy plays the savior role to rescue Kevin from an enemy that's still killing and destroying.
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Host 2
The wet bandits.
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Pastor Joby Martin
The wet bandits. Now, if you've never seen that before, it's because you weren't looking for Jesus in Home Alone. You're just watching. You were just watching. And if you know those things, you'll never be able to see those scenes in the movie again. I want to. There's a real danger. And I love Christmas, so I'm not trying to bag on Christmas. I like it all. I like Rudolph. I like music. I like the funny stuff. I like the serious stuff. I like the Presence. I like them a lot.
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Host 1
But.
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Pastor Joby Martin
But we want to be magi. People that are. And we've been given the revealed word of God, you know? And so where I went is, man, don't be Herod. And we have a tendency to be Herod. You can't see past yourself and don't be the scribes and the chief priests. You get lost in your tradition. Like, Jesus said, man, you know the word and you don't know the author of the word, you know? So I know I kind of yelled at us at the beginning. It was. It got tense. I could see people like, merry Christmas.
- [14:02]
Host 2
Welcome back.
- [14:03]
Host 1
Yeah, well, we're going to talk. I have several thoughts about, like, looking and seeking. I. I remember when I was little, we didn't have the Internet because it was before the Internet, before Al Gore.
- [14:16]
Pastor Joby Martin
Gave us the gift. Speaking of not believing what government officials.
- [14:20]
Host 1
Say, but I remember seeing in the newspaper one time a horoscope, okay? And I asked my parents, I was like, what is that? And they're like, oh, that's like the devil.
- [14:29]
Pastor Joby Martin
I would agree.
- [14:30]
Host 1
And but it made me think, what is the Magi seeing The star? Like, so, yeah, it's probably Jesus or it's probably the Lord's miraculous hand. But what does it tell us about how the natural world can show people signs that point them to God?
- [14:45]
Pastor Joby Martin
Well, the early church fathers, all the way up through the Reformers, this is something that we lost in the Reformation. Catholics do this better than, than Protestants. They say, we have two books. We've got God's revealed word and we've got God's general revelation in his creation. And what's. If you just read the words, though, in Matthew 2, the general revelation of creation will generally reveal God. Like, this can't be an accident. You know, kind of sit at the Grand Canyon and all of a sudden you feel small because you're like, wow, the one that made this is big and I am small. But the Grand Canyon will not tell you that Christ came as a substitutionary atonement for your sins. And you must surrender to him. You need the revealed word of God. So here, when the Magi show up and say, king Herod, where's the king of Jews? And you go, well, ask the Bible guys. And it is the Bible that specifically, like, it'll get you close, it might get you leaning in that direction, but it takes his word to, to get you all the way home to Jesus.
- [15:48]
Host 1
Isn't it funny? Paul in Romans one says that people are without excuse because he says that God's eternal power and divine nature are clearly perceived. So that makes sense, right? Those are the general things. Oh, he's powerful and he's eternal, the higher power, but they don't see more than that.
- [16:05]
Pastor Joby Martin
I would rarely point you to a Tucker Carlson interview, especially these days right now from the Deepen podcast, but he just did one this week and he interviews a chemical biologist, something like that, who is a creationist. And bro, it is. This guy got saved when he was 18. And he talks about how the science that he participates in is not at odds with what the scripture says. It just gives him eyes to understand things that me and you don't understand. And he sat down with many, many, many Darwinian macro evolutionists and says, explain the science to me. And they, they only came from a 30, 000 foot view. He's like, can you imagine if you flew over New York? This is the example. He says, oh, okay, there's structures here, but you have no idea the intricacy of the structures of New York. The, the, the railway, the subway system underneath, the sewage system underneath you know what I mean? There's so much going on there. And he's like, when I. When you get down to the molecular level, this idea of, well, if you just give it enough time, then. Then chaos turns into order with purpose. He's like, this is dumb. It is. It is really great. And this guy gets excited about his walk with Jesus. He's a. He's a magi. He's a theologically trained scientist that has had an encounter with Jesus. And I love that last line that we read. And they departed to their own country by another way. So when this guy met Jesus, he's still doing science, but he does it a different way now, like under the glory of God. It's really fascinating. You should listen to it. I wish I could remember his name, but I can't.
- [17:58]
Host 1
We'll put it in the show notes.
- [17:59]
Pastor Joby Martin
Oh, yeah.
- [18:03]
Host 2
Would it be fair to say that in regards to a human's relationship with God in creation, the creation is a place that. I think the way that I was taught is that you see God in it, but you don't hear God through it.
- [18:20]
Pastor Joby Martin
Not maybe in very broad strokes.
- [18:22]
Host 2
Right. You know, so I think it's a. It's an. It's a senses engaging thing. And so it's like creations there for your eyes to see.
- [18:29]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah.
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Host 2
And, yeah, I mean, obviously you hear the sounds and stuff, but the fact that the sun rises and I have a feeling doesn't necessarily mean that God is speaking to me in that moment with divine revelation, like, I'm having the general revelation that would point me to the specific revelation of Scripture. And so I've always thought that's a decent way to think about it. It's like in creation, I see God in it, but if I want to hear God, then this is. This is where I'm going.
- [18:59]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah.
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Host 2
To the book.
- [19:00]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, 100%.
- [19:02]
Host 1
We're studying Matthew next year everywhere. And what I thought was, I think potentially Matthew's painting a picture here of who recognizes Jesus because there's a theme. Isn't this. Isn't that a theme in his whole gospel?
- [19:17]
Pastor Joby Martin
Okay, so. All right, so let's book it. So you're gonna go genealogy. This is. This is January, by the way. You're gonna go genealogy. And then the first event that happens is that people from everywhere come see the king. The way it ends is the king says, go tell everybody about the kingdom. So it's the exact opposite. Like, it's, you know, this is for all people. This is for all people. And that's the I mean, we'll get into it a ton next year. But Matthew's point is, Israel missed the point. The people of God were chosen for what? So that they could be a Satan, heal a light in the world, take the Gospel to the ends of the earth? The temple was supposed to be a place where God was put on display. His holiness, his justice, but also his grace. And so you get the temple courts. And a big part of it was the court to the Gentiles. And so one of the things that ticks Jesus off is of all the places to defame the name of God, you're using this for the religious people to make money. And, and you've kicked out the people that were supposed to be invited in to come and see the glory of God and follow in his ways because his ways are better than our ways. And then to know that. So, yeah, we'll spend up. That will be, that will be the theme that starts with from heaven to earth and ends with neighbors to nations.
- [20:39]
Host 1
Can you imagine how insulting that would have been when Jesus said to the religious leaders, prostitutes and tax collectors by basically flooding into the kingdom ahead of you?
- [20:50]
Pastor Joby Martin
Correct. Well, well, it's the reason, in my opinion, that the scribes and the chief priests, okay, if your job is to study the Old Testament and know it so well that you would be first to identify the Messiah, because nobody denies that a Messiah is promised. And then these guys, very powerful, smart, scientific theologians show up and go, we think we know where he is. And they don't even go, can we come? Now, a lot of what happened, I read this somewhere. Herod's grandfather converted to Judaism. So he's not ethnically Jewish, but religiously he was Jewish. Obviously that does not pass down to Herod, but Herod had the title King of the Jews and he liked it because of the power, you know, so by the time he comes along, the chief priests are not even Levites anymore. They're not doing it this way. It was a political assignment with a whole bunch of privilege and power. And so they don't need a Messiah because they know from the old covenant the Messiah is going to come here and turn this thing all the way upside down. And they got a bunch of power right there. And so, I mean, a part of the modern day equivalent is, listen, Jesus is Lord, not a lobbyist. And so the. And this is happening a lot. Okay? I think the pendulum is swinging. Like it's real. It's cool right now to be a Christ, to be a podcaster who claims Christ, but if he's not lord of your life if he's not calling the shots. But you think it is. You know, you get more clicks and likes if you kind of play team Christian right now, bro. Oh, my gosh, be very careful. You won't meet Jesus. You'll think he works for you. You think that he's actually a lobbyist for you to get your way in the political and sociological things you think are important. And I mean, I can name names of podcasters, which, honestly, in my opinion, you know who these guys, if you've watched the evolution of Joe Rogan's opinion of God in the last 10 years, he is way more in line with the Magi, who with very little evidence so far, he's just been kind of drawn closer and closer and closer to like, I mean, years ago, dude, he had whole bits about how silly this was. This is just silly in a made up book. Now his testimony is, I'm going to church and these people are legit. And if I've got to choose between a virgin birth or a virgin birth of the universe, his line, I'm going to stick with Jesus. That makes more sense. See, he. And you know, one of the things I think everybody likes about his podcast, he does come with a sense of humility and question and curiosity. Dude, God has a real place in the kingdom of God for that guy. You know, he said, come on, ask your questions. I'll just keep bringing you to me. The arrogance of the religious leaders are we don't need him. We've got the law of Moses. Why would we need him? And I said it, what you need for salvation is need that's blessed are the poor in spirit. Because if you don't think you need to be saved, you will never find a savior.
- [24:12]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [24:13]
Pastor Joby Martin
And I'm telling you, I know I railed against us when we act like Herod. And it's easy for the longtime church person is like, you get them, pastor, you, they come in here and worship, then they go sin. And like, man, if you're not careful, we can fall into that religious group real quick too, and think we got this.
- [24:33]
Host 1
Yeah, it's like Pastor 1 said last week, faith has feet. And these and these Magi, they, they moved. You know, they had a little information and they moved.
- [24:44]
Pastor Joby Martin
Not easy moves, right? 40 days there at least. Probably. Probably more like six months because, you know, you got to stop, refeed the camels, all that kind of stuff, and you got to go back home. I mean, this is like. And put your life on the line. At great potential cost themselves. And they did not consider it a sacrifice. Like, I don't even. We use the term because in English it works good. But sacrificial giving man, that's like, how, how could you sacrifice to be generous to God? You know what I mean? Yeah, that's like giving up hunger for a good meal. It's like giving up thirst for a cold glass of water. You know, giving up loneliness for companionship. That's what you're giving up.
- [25:28]
Host 1
Yeah, well, I, you know, grew up in church and hearing all the songs even. Even though they were wrong, many of them. But I was probably, I was well into adulthood before I heard anyone make the connection between what the gifts were and what they signified. And so I think that's just fascinating. Could you talk a little bit more about that?
- [25:51]
Pastor Joby Martin
Regardless of if the magi, their intent is irrelevant, but what they brought is a one to one relationship with the office of Jesus, private priest and king. What the. I've never seen this though is when Pastor o' ney was preaching last week and he said the, the only time the three titles of Christ, Savior and Lord is in Luke 2. And I was like, well, but the evidence of it is in Matthew 2. They give gold because he's a king. They give frankincense. That's what the priest used of God is a very tactile God, especially in the Old Testament. You know, it's like with all the, all the knots and the, and the, just all kind of things that you would do to remember who God is. And so communion, they would, right, they would light the, as the smoke would lift up on the frankincense or the incense. They'd be like, oh, that's like your prayers, you know. You see it again in Revelation 8. I think it's Revelation 8. 1. All of heaven is silenced for 30 minutes because the priests have just lit the incense and the prayers of God's people are rising up and then myrrh. And that's what you would use if you read in the Gospel of John, Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus take myrrh to prepare Jesus's body for burial. And so this king came to not just rule and reign, but to die. And this is who Jesus is. So the connection is, honestly, if you stingy towards God, you don't know who he is. Because when you know him as Lord, Savior in Christ, then you, you fall down on your face, you worship him and you just, your hands just fling open like this is. This isn't Even mine. This ain't my goal. My frankincense and my murder. This is your. This belongs to you.
- [27:34]
Host 1
We were talking before you sat down, Pastor Joby, about Christmas gifts. And I love when you were talking about when you give somebody a gift that show, it shows that you know them or not. Right? Right. Like, you ever given up. You ever just really whiffed on a gift? And it's not just that you missed. It's like, do you even know me at all? You know, especially if it's your wife, it's not good.
- [27:55]
Pastor Joby Martin
Tell me some misses.
- [27:57]
Host 1
Oh, man, I struggle ever. I think I got my wife, like a purse or something, and she was like this. I don't. I don't even care. I could care. So I don't like it at all.
- [28:07]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, I don't know.
- [28:07]
Host 2
I mean, I've missed many times. My wife's a artist. She. Her undergrads in art. I've missed on the art front quite a few times. You know, do a little paint by number and give it to her.
- [28:23]
Pastor Joby Martin
Gretchen used to. This is growing in your marriage, you know, like, I used to guess. I mean, gifts matter to me a lot. Right? And. And I was. I just. I couldn't get it right. You know what I mean? I got us a bed one time. Like, I thought, this is it. She's gonna see. It was like such a want. And I was like, I thought this would be great, you know, Now I use a team of people to shop for Gretchen. I mean, by God's grace, I have a. There's a lot of really smart females that are on our team here. And, bro, I mean, it's a whiteboard session. Like, we go through it and, you know, I mean, I got some ideas and they help. And in the early days, she was like, you can't figure this out? And I was like, all right, do you want stuff that is meaningful to you or. And I need help here or you just want me to keep guessing? She's like, no, get help.
- [29:07]
Host 1
Oh, man.
- [29:08]
Pastor Joby Martin
But the. I got a motorcycle a couple years ago from her. It's. I mean, I. I wanted one bad, and I just. There's. I wouldn't go get it. I just. I just couldn't pull the trigger on it. And the fact that she did that, like, I mean, it. Even now, she text me the other day, she's like, I don't feel like you're going to have enough to open for Christmas, you know, so you get that gift, that pressure, which is kind of weird. And I'm Like, I'm still like, the. The Harley still counts every year, I'm reminded.
- [29:40]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [29:40]
Pastor Joby Martin
And she like went through. I mean, she hit it at the Jeff Kopp's house. And Alicia called us mid mornings, like, hey, you guys want to come over? Which is pretty normal and. But the thing that began to tip off as the kids, like, we'll come. Okay. And I mean, dude, I'm like in my ro and slippers with coffee and we will go all. And they video the thing. And the only reason I didn't show it, I said holy crap about 10 times because I was just like, I couldn't believe. But it really did communicate love. And the Bible will use the word knowledge and love almost interchangeably, you know, I mean, like, wow, she really knows me and value. And so, yeah, if you put your hope in it, you're gonna be really disappointed. If you're the parent of little kids and you think that you're gonna get them the thing and then they're just gonna really appreciate you as a parent. That's gonna be. They're gonna be bored by 10 o'. Clock. But as you get older and you can appreciate those kinds of gifts, you know, it's very meaningful.
- [30:38]
Host 2
I had a buddy in college that his. He was. We were all, you know, you, like, you're in a group of friends and him and one of the. One of our other friends, they were dating and it was her birthday or maybe it was Christmas, I can't remember. But he rolls in with her gift and it's a box of Krispy Kreme donuts. And I was like, I don't think that's probably. I don't think you want to do that. And he was like. He was like, no, man. He's like, dude, she loves Krispy Kreme donuts. And I was like, listen, dude, I'm.
- [31:10]
Pastor Joby Martin
Just telling you probably privately. Yeah.
- [31:12]
Host 2
You don't want to roll in as like the gift. You know what I mean? It's like if you have the gift and donuts and drinks and. Okay, but like the thing that you came up with to give her was a box of Krispy Kreme donuts. Like, I don't think so, bro. He went on with it. They didn't date very long, and it was quite the thing. Oh, man, you said that tonight. You know, it's like, yeah, pay attention to the gift you're giving there.
- [31:39]
Pastor Joby Martin
Maybe I got you a shotgun.
- [31:40]
Host 2
Yeah.
- [31:42]
Host 1
You know, here's another. Another little thing that I discovered later. So they find out that Herod is trying to kill all the boys. And they say, all right, we're gonna go move to Egypt. How does a broke carpenter and his newly married wife afford to go live in Egypt?
- [32:02]
Pastor Joby Martin
He got gold.
- [32:03]
Host 2
Yeah. Generally it's believed that he got bankrolled, that. Yeah, their time away got bankrolled right here.
- [32:09]
Pastor Joby Martin
So here's some more from next year. The same way that the children of God left Egypt.
- [32:13]
Host 1
That's right.
- [32:14]
Pastor Joby Martin
They got gold from the Egyptians as they were on their way out. You know what I mean? So, look, man, it's an old, like, kind of charismatic thing phrase, but if it's God's will, it's God's bill. And it's what you say all the time, man. You can't give me what God has it and you can't keep me from what God has. What's really crazy is the prophecies of Jesus say he's from Nazareth, he's from Bethlehem, and he's from Egypt. So how's that possible? And then what we see here, and especially this, in Luke chapter two, there's this census that happens, right? That forces them to Bethlehem. They don't want to go to Bethlehem. So don't lose that. You might be in a time in life right now, and you don't want to be where you are. And God. And what's crazy is Caesar Augustus is in charge of this census, and he thinks he is the man. Actually, his title was Lord of Lords and King of Kings. Okay? And now he is a footnote in the story of the birth of Jesus. Just a footnote. He's a bit player because he is not the point. And he thought he was the point. And so whether it's our government or your job or your school or whatever, and just know God still holds the whole world in his hands. And listen, man, if he takes care of the birds and flowers, he's got you. He's got you.
- [33:36]
Host 1
And I can't help but also think about Pharaoh did the exact same thing. Looking for Moses.
- [33:43]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yep.
- [33:44]
Host 1
He said, find all the young boys and kill them. They said, why is that?
- [33:47]
Pastor Joby Martin
Important to know the parallel there again, what. What Matthew is trying to paint the picture of is that Jesus is the greater Israel. What God promised to the offspring of Abraham, his genetic descendants, thought that counted for all of them. Paul in Galatians and Romans is going to redefine what that means. I mean, in Galatians, he's like, it doesn't say offsprings, it says singular offspring. This blessing for the whole world was through the Person and work of Jesus Christ. And so he is making that connection. So, I mean, you're going to see all kind of parallels. Moses goes up on the mountain to receive the law. Jesus goes up on the mountain to give the sermon and says, you've heard it said. But I say to you, you know, he is reinterpreting God's law, that this is written on our hearts, not just written on a tablet of stone. You're going to see that all the way through the Gospel of Matthew. And Matthew gives us these clues here that this is how the thing. The narrative part of it, when you get past the genealogies, this is how the thing starts.
- [34:47]
Host 1
Yeah. 400 years of slavery, 400 years of silence between the.
- [34:50]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah.
- [34:51]
Host 1
Prophecy and Jesus coming. They're crying out to God for deliverance. He's going to send a deliverer. It's Moses, Jesus. It's wild. I love that stuff.
- [35:01]
Host 2
We say it all the time. You say it all the time. You know, same demons, new days. And that's certainly a blatant manifestation of demonic at work both in Exodus and in Matthew. You know, if the enemy can twist and pervert culture in a way that it becomes acceptable or legislated to demasculate and. Or all the way to murder an entire generation of men. You know what I mean? And that's what, that's what he's after. I mean, he's trying to steal, kill and destroy. And he's trying to go after, you know, at least half of the. Half of the equation in. In procreation and the health of flourishing civilization.
- [35:50]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah. So everything God creates. The enemy corrupts everything. So God creates a man, puts him in the garden, says, you get this thing in order, then I'm gonna give me. I'm gonna give you a family. Okay, so what does the enemy try to do? He does it through Pharaoh. He does it through Herod. I'm gonna tear the family down. I'm gonna tear this thing apart. I'm gonna. I'm gonna attack God'. Order. Listen, we are. We are walking in the fruits of this at the church of 1122 right now. All the things you can measure. We've grown more than we ever have in all the things. And we spent an entire year calling men to stand firm and act like men. There's something in the supernatural created order of things that when you get that thing right, you go, all right, God, we're going to do it your way. We're going to have men stand in the role that you have called Us to not beat our chest and say, I'm in charge. Not that stuff. Then all of a sudden, everything begins to order itself. Rightly, that's true in your own home. That's true in a church, in a community estate, in a nation. And. And same demons. New days, bro. He's still trying to kill babies and demand men. I mean, this is what is happening.
- [37:01]
Host 1
But the fact that you made that connection, you know, when you zoom out and you think about what's been happening in the past, you know, handful of years to men, or even the attack on gender, and you, you come. You parallel that to the Pharaoh or the. The Herod attack. It's like light bulb.
- [37:19]
Pastor Joby Martin
Correct.
- [37:19]
Host 1
Wild to think about that on a huge. It's a huge, huge level, dude.
- [37:23]
Pastor Joby Martin
And you want to talk about some blinded eyes, man? You know, my algorithm feeds me all these videos, and I watch too many of them. And there's this kid on a young man on a college campus, and I think it's an Ivy League school, and he's getting people to sign petitions to make it illegal. He's like, here's what's happening. They're taking pregnant dogs. And you know what they're doing to him? They are putting their, Their, their putting the dog asleep for a second. And they go in with tools and they tear the puppies apart inside the womb of the mama dog. And they're like, oh, my gosh.
- [37:59]
Host 1
I.
- [37:59]
Pastor Joby Martin
Where. Where do I sign? That should be illegal. And they get him to sign. Then they're like, okay, cool. They're doing the same thing to humans. Will you sign that? And the people are like, no. They can't even make the kid. I mean, what a brilliant take. And all these people have this emotional connection to a puppy being dismembered, but not a person. That's a blinded eye, man.
- [38:22]
Host 2
Some Romans 1 stuff right there, that is.
- [38:24]
Pastor Joby Martin
Dude, that's from. Oh. I mean, you can't. They can't even see their own logical inconsistency, regardless of what they think about God and Imago Day and all of that stuff. And your phone's listening. So those videos are going to pop up now on your.
- [38:41]
Host 2
Not on mine.
- [38:42]
Host 1
Oh, my God. Did you have something you were jotting down there?
- [38:48]
Host 2
No, sir. I may be ahead of you a little.
- [38:50]
Host 1
Two questions.
- [38:51]
Host 2
I'll say something smart in a minute because I got out in front of you.
- [38:54]
Host 1
Two questions about people seeking things. Okay. I've been reading in Judges.
- [38:58]
Pastor Joby Martin
Okay.
- [38:59]
Host 1
All right. And there's this thing that Gideon does, and. And this is even Now, a phrase in Christian, Christian phrases. I'm going to put out a fleece. So he says to God, if you're really with me, but this fleece on the threshing floor, and everything's going to be, dude besides it. And he's like, oh, it happened. Okay, one more time. And then he reverses it.
- [39:18]
Host 2
Okay, Fleece and God.
- [39:20]
Host 1
Yeah. So since we're talking about the magi and they're. They got a sign and these things, all these things are happening. You're. Let's just say your average 1122 or listener of this podcast. And you're like, I'm trying to ask God to tell me if he's leading me in some direction or whatever, and I want him to give me a sign. How do you help that person not go too far in either direction, in the ditch when they're in that position?
- [39:45]
Pastor Joby Martin
First and foremost, we had the revealed word of God. Okay. And so it always needs to be in alignment with that. So what is your role in the Great Commission, in the Great Commandment? All right. What are you doing to make disciples that. Make disciples of all peoples? Be about that. That's God's will for your life. Then are you loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and loving your neighbor as yourself? As you are seeking God's specific will, will for your life? Are you participating in his will for every person's life? Start there. Gretchen and I are in a season. The details doesn't really matter, but there are some decisions that we need to make and we don't know what to do. And I don't have a specific Bible verse that tells me, do we choose A, B or C?
- [40:32]
Host 1
Right.
- [40:33]
Pastor Joby Martin
So we're praying about it a lot, and we're just going to begin to move in certain directions and then sense as we go along, God leading us.
- [40:43]
Host 1
But is it. Is it wrong to say, God, please show me a sign? Is that. Or is that immature? Like, is. Would you advise somebody to do that or to not do that?
- [40:54]
Pastor Joby Martin
So for the. I was talking to the people watching online tonight. I was like, keep seeking. Maybe this is the sun. Maybe me talking to you right now is God telling you I'm here, I love you, I died for you. Come to me. I. I think it. I think it has everything to do with the authenticity, intent and intent of the asker. You know, I mean, if you're trying to, like, do a card trick on God so that you can do what you want and blame him, he, dude, you ain't tricking him. He knows the thoughts before you even had them. If you are genuinely, like, trying to align yourself with God's will for your life, that's a prayer he wants to answer. He does. He's not a God of confusion. He's a God of clarity.
- [41:36]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [41:36]
Host 2
The sign you're looking for is actually a Savior.
- [41:38]
Pastor Joby Martin
There you go.
- [41:39]
Host 2
And so that's what I would say is don't look for a sign. Look for the Savior and think, what would he do? Like, how would he. What would Jesus do? What do you know about Jesus? What has Jesus shown you in his patterns of behavior? What is his teachings reveal to you? Do that. And so that's where I get a little, like, you get a little Jesus parallel at best, and you. Or you can just miss him completely. When you're looking for signs out there in the universe to, like, just look for the Savior and do what he said he would do. And the will of God thing to me is fascinating because I know what we mean. And, and Christians, we've invented all different kind of categories of the will of God, you know, like the revealed will of God and the permissive will and all that. We've put all these words on it. That's fine. Know some really smart people have many, you know, position papers on this. I always get back to 1st Thessalonian 5 when I think about the will of God because it's so blatantly clear. It says, rejoice always, pray without ceasing. Give thanks in all circumstances, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for you. That's what, that's what he says. That's God's will for you. Pray without ceasing. Rejoice always, give thanks in all circumstances. And if you, if you do that, you're going to find the clarity that you're looking for, if you just stay at it. And so make faithfulness the target, not some kind of, you know, just be careful not to chase whims or to chase the feeling or to trust the heart. You know, trust the man.
- [43:15]
Pastor Joby Martin
This is where community matters a lot, too. This is where authority matters a lot. This is where being in the word matters a lot. You know, a good illustration is like a sailboat. You need a sail and a rudder. The rudder is the word of God and the sail is your activity. So if you, if you don't ever set sail and go, then you're not doing what boats are supposed to do. You know, you just got a rudder, but no, no power. But if you don't. But if you don't get out and march in the direction. Listen, Jesus says, my sheep hear my voice, all right? And. And they do what I tell them to do. But then the rudder is the word of God. He's not a liar. He's not going to tell me something different than what he told all of us to do. But community matters, man. You think God told you to do something? I would share that with some people that have authority to speak into your life, too.
- [44:11]
Host 1
I was laughing because years ago you told this. I don't know if this is a real story, but it was before Tebow got married and.
- [44:18]
Host 2
Oh, but it was like I saw.
- [44:19]
Host 1
Orange and blue in the sky and then looked down. There was 11:22 on the clock.
- [44:23]
Pastor Joby Martin
Or like, is this a sign? I was like, sounds like a preamble to a restraining order. It was, man. It was like my favorite song came on the radio and there was something about the number 15 and there was orange and blue and. Will you introduce me to him? No, I will not. That is not God's will for my life.
- [44:40]
Host 1
So.
- [44:41]
Host 2
So it kind of happened last when I preached on Joseph, you know, on Thursday night I played that Nate Bargazi sketch and.
- [44:48]
Pastor Joby Martin
So funny. It's.
- [44:49]
Host 2
It's hilarious. All about the magi, Joseph and Mary and all that stuff. It was kind of long. It played longer than I thought it was going to in the room, but it's still really, really funny. Especially if you know who Nate Vargazzi is the best. Well, we got.
- [45:05]
Pastor Joby Martin
We.
- [45:06]
Host 2
I couldn't play it on Sunday because we got hammered by the YouTube copyright police. And so in the sense that they just shut us down and we were like, well, that stinks. You know, we can't. You can't use it again. Well, God bless her. And I'm. I'm sure she's sweet, but this lady comes up to me on Sunday and was like, I just prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed and prayed, you know, that. That you would. That you wouldn't play that video again.
- [45:32]
Pastor Joby Martin
Sweet.
- [45:33]
Host 2
And, you know, I'm just so glad that you. You were sensitive to the spirit of God. And I was like, yeah, totally. I was like, yeah, thanks for sharing. The YouTube copyright police told. Made it made it impossible for us to do this. You know what I mean? The Lord works in my. Maybe the Lord was working in mysterious ways, but I don't know that I was tended to the Lord on it. We just couldn't put it online. And so I had to. I had to adjust. You know, it's that kind of thing, you know, where it's like, who knows, maybe the Lord's in it, maybe he's not. And that's where I get when you start looking for signs or you're starting to read the tea leaves, I guess, if you will, that it's. It's like you don't have to go, you don't have to do a lot of guessing. He's just not a. He's not. There's not a lot of uncertainty and things are generally more clear than what makes things unclear to in my life experientially is my feelings. I get wrapped around the actual of my own feelings, you know. And if I go to the scriptures looking for me first, then I'm going to have a really hard time discerning anything that's true and good and right and the point. But if I go looking for Jesus, I will find him and he will show me the way, you know.
- [46:45]
Pastor Joby Martin
So here's a, here's something that's kind of hottish topic out in the Christian world right now. Kirk Cameron comes out on his podcast.
- [46:52]
Host 2
That thing blew up, didn't it?
- [46:53]
Pastor Joby Martin
The talking about conditionalism or annihilationism. And what that means is that.
- [47:00]
Host 1
People.
- [47:00]
Pastor Joby Martin
Don'T go to hell forever, that eventually.
- [47:03]
Host 2
They just cease to exist. Annihilation.
- [47:05]
Pastor Joby Martin
Okay. And most of what he talked about, and then he talked about some people that believe this. And so I would echo some friends that have commented on this that I don't think Kirk think Cameron is a heretic, even though he's absolutely wrong about this one. And what it seems to me the, the majority of his case was this idea seems to align with what I think the characteristics of God are. Here's what happens all the time. You've already pre decided on what you want God to be like or to be okay with. And so you don't just read the words for what they say. You gotta like nuance. I hate that word these days. Nuance. You gotta nuance this word. And in the first century and that Greek word didn't mean that then. You know what I mean? You also see this a lot when it comes to sexual identity and what sexual immorality is. These kinds of things. Okay, just be honest. Did you have your feelings and stance on whatever the issue is first and then you're trying to get the Bible to support you or did you actually believe that because your study of the Word led you there? Because if you just study the Word it's going to lead you to all kinds of places that with our very limited broken understanding, we just can't get our head around. You know, that's a. That's the. So people come to the Bible and signs that same way. I need these things to support what I want to do or want to feel or want to believe.
- [48:32]
Host 1
Yeah. It's not that. It's not that God never communicates through dreams or through us. You know, a sign in your circumstance. It's just so easy for you to marry your feelings to that. Be like, well, I saw a bird and then it told me that this was the right. It's just like, well, you get, you get so attached to this side of it and it just gets, it can get real weird.
- [48:52]
Host 2
But even in that man you got, you know, with. Of course you read all over the New Testament, God speaking through dreams and to. Of course the spiritual forces of darkness and the spiritual forces of the kingdom are at work even in our subconscious, you know, around our subconscious for sure. But for me, anytime I run into the dream thing, I'm like, let's, let's get Christological. Here is. For example, there are lots of people in the Muslim world that would say, I saw Jesus first in my dream. All right, now we got something to talk about. And that dream is. That was the starting thing that led them to.
- [49:36]
Pastor Joby Martin
They.
- [49:36]
Host 2
Then it was almost like deja vu. They have this dream and then they have a real life encounter with, with a person of peace or, or someone in the Word and it leads them into this relationship with this man that showed up in their dream. Do I buy that? 100%.
- [49:53]
Pastor Joby Martin
Me too.
- [49:53]
Host 2
100%. So does God speak through dreams? But if the, if it's just a general life circumstance and you have a dream about it, but it's not a Christ centered. I guess that's the thing is if it's not Christ centered, then we should approach that thing with some caution and do a lot of work in order to find the wisdom of it that God might be trying to guide us in.
- [50:21]
Host 1
Okay. Lastly, Pastor Joby, help me and untangle some of the stuff that I'm about to say. We grew up where seeker friendly church became kind of a thing. And we know from reading our Bible that Paul says no one seeks after God. And yet I think a lot of people do. And so how do you unravel the different things about people who are seeking for something? They know there's something more out there. We don't run church with like the seeker in mind, but we also want to be hospitable and friendly to the, to that person, what's the. How would you clarify all those different lanes that I'm probably just mudding with my question.
- [51:03]
Pastor Joby Martin
In Romans, when Paul says no one seeks for God, he's talking about who the initiator of the seeking is, that the spirit of God woos people unto himself. So from my personal experience, we're all searching for meaning and purpose and love and peace and joy. And because, you know, we're all created with that, that God shaped vacuum in our hearts, we are seeking for that and that is found in him. Now the, the primary difference between 1122, the way we do church and what would qualify as like the secret sensitive movement is we have God in mind as the end, not the. What they would call the user or the customer or the visitor. But what glorifies God is lost people coming to Christ and found people being put on mission for the sake of lost people coming to Christ. Another way to say it is that all people can discover and deepen their relationship with Jesus. So both of these things are true. This is a big point of this. The religious people missed it because they were just for the insider, you know, and they didn't make space for all peoples, all kind of people, all nations. And so God uses this star to draw folks, the magi unto himself, unto the person work of Jesus. So we should have, you know, it got real cool and easy to just kind of bag on the secret sensitive mega church. And I understand so a lot of the shadows, but a lot of the lights were Acts 15 when they have the meeting at the Jerusalem Council and they're like, why would we make it difficult for the Gentiles who are coming to the Lord? So let's not put up any unnecessary barriers and let's pay attention to the language we use and you know, those kind of things. Because, because God is seeking after these people and we want to. The church, the local church should partner with the mission of God so that we can make disciples right around you in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria and to the very ends of the earth. But the point is not the comfort and the ease of the people. The point is the glory of God.
- [53:09]
Host 1
I think we were talking recently about inviting one mores and, and you see everything through a different lens and you realize how much you, you assume that everybody knows what's going on, even, even when you are trying hard.
- [53:21]
Pastor Joby Martin
Dude, Steph and I, somebody, you know. So on the second song of the service, I go to my office, I use the bathroom, I get my Bible, I get my stuff. Together. I walk backstage, and at that point, our campus pastor, Trey, is doing the connect moment, right? And I'm just kind of chatting with Big Kelly and Steph. They're backstage, and. And she's usually giving me, like, parking updates. How crowded are we? Are we in overflow? You know, this is kind of all this stuff. And. And Trey was talking about our Christmas Eve services, and I was like, well, I invited one of my one mores. You know, just yesterday. Yesterday. No, this morning. This morning I did. And, dude, it was crazy. It was like, I'm. I'm leaving. There's this kid at the gym, and he just. He walked. He like, daps. Everybody walks around. I've never seen him lift a weight, but he just. He's there every time I'm there. He ever. There's one of those guys go, at 6 o' clock in the morning, he's there. You go 8 o' clock at night, he's there. And I'm telling you, I got my stuff. I'm almost at the door. And I had this overwhelming sense that I need to go invite him to Christmas Eve. I was like, oh, okay. Because I don't want to stand before the Lord and be like, why didn't you do it? So I walk. He's in the locker room. I walk in the locker room and I just say, hey, man, what are you doing for Christmas Eve? And he said, my family goes to some restaurant. I was like, come see us across the street. And here are service times. Okay, so. And she was like, oh, that's cool. Everything changes when you're one more walks into church with you. Nothing is cringy when you're here by yourself. Nothing. If somebody's goofy, you're like, oh, that's just. That's my goofy guy, man. He's cool, right, bro? When. When you're one more is with you, you see all of church through a different lens. Everything. You know, like, when the. When the flag people, God bless them, or waving them, if it's just us, you're like, man, you know, you know their stories, you know where they came from. You're like, cool. They're finding freedom in Christ. If you're one more there, you're like, oh, I got to explain stuff.
- [55:16]
Host 2
It.
- [55:17]
Pastor Joby Martin
It changes everything.
- [55:20]
Host 2
Do you think that people every. Like you said, everybody is on a search, just inherently a Mago Day type, searching for purpose and meaning and. But is everybody searching for truth?
- [55:35]
Pastor Joby Martin
No.
- [55:38]
Host 2
You know what I mean? It feels like to me, and I'm just kind of working this out that there are people who are searching for more and there are people who are searching for truth and that those aren't the same thing. And the ones that are searching for truth, it goes back to your God initiates that desire in you, you know, and so I don't. I'll have to work that out. But I feel like if you are searching for truth, you will inevitably breadcrumb down the trail toward the ultimate truth, which is the revealed person of God in and through Jesus Christ.
- [56:20]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, I think a part of the blind eyes, you know, all Jesus will be like, he who has ears, let him hear. When it comes to the truth thing, if you think you are the arbiter of truth, then you're not going to search because you don't need it. You've got it figured out. This is where you get to phrases like, well, this is my truth. But the moment you begin to realize I think truth or ultimate reality is actually something outside of me that begins a journey of, I don't have this figured out. And I think God really honors that kind of humility.
- [57:01]
Host 2
You know, I think that may be down at the basement of some of the things that you were saying earlier about how the pendulum has swung in some of popular culture around is that there are some people that I think are on a legitimate pursuit of truth beyond themselves. Like, they're trying to find themselves in. They're actually trying to find the bigger thing and then figure out what does that actually mean about me. And then I think there's other people that want to grab Christianity and add it on to their thing because it makes them look a certain way or I agree, you know, and that that's where it's like the purity of the pursuit of truth, I think is the, is the discerning. Is the discerning factor or the discerning spirit in there of what's God, what's actually going on, like what work is actually being done in this person. And so I don't know what you.
- [57:57]
Host 1
Say, Pastor Joe, when you say the thing you need is need. So I think people search for what they need. Like, so somebody starts to realize, I'm, I'm sad all the time, I have no joy, or I have, I'm aimless. And so they're thinking so that those people might be looking for different things. Like, I, I need to find something to fulfill me, or I need to find something to give me meaning. Or maybe they've messed up, or maybe it is the truth.
- [58:24]
Host 2
Yeah, I think God's so good that he will meet people wherever they are, for sure. But I do think as a friend and as a discerner and as someone trying to help people, like trying to really understand what's going on in. On the motivational level, that's, that's the, that's where I posture the question from.
- [58:44]
Pastor Joby Martin
One time you were talking about ways to know that your kids are beginning to really grasp the gospel and the idea of salvation is they will. They will have a heightened sense of a conviction of sin. And I don't think that's just true for kids. So the guy that emails me at one o' clock in the morning from the bar because he's watching YouTube videos, he has realized that my way is not working. And in his confessed drunk way, he's like, I'm broken. I need. I, you know, I need help. That guy's perfectly positioned, according to the Beatitudes, to get saved because he's. He realizes that he's poor in spirit and he's mourning his sin. And those, those are the precursors to. Blessed are the meek. Handing over the reigns of your life to. To the one who can rule and reign your life the way it was created to reign. So that's always a good way. Like, I mean, that's. That guy's seeking truth because his way ain't working, you know?
- [59:47]
Host 1
Yeah. I guess another way to say it is that all of those things that you're looking for, really, the truth is at the bottom of all of them. Right. Because the true way to find joy or peace or comfort or purpose is found in the truth. The way. The truth, the life. Yeah.
- [60:01]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yeah, I was going to say that. And then one of Jesus's most famous verses in John 14:6 is, I am that.
- [60:07]
Host 1
Yeah.
- [60:08]
Pastor Joby Martin
You know, I'm not going to show you the way. I'm not going to tell you the truth. I'm not going to help your life. I am those things.
- [60:14]
Host 1
Yeah. Well, I actually think this is a line from a song, too. Wise men still seek him. And so that is a consistent theme through this. Usually we say that around Christmas, don't miss Jesus. Right. You know, and don't be the person who has all the information and misses them or takes it and uses it the wrong way. Pastor Joby, any final thoughts before we close?
- [60:39]
Pastor Joby Martin
We did Compassion weekend. So the magi bring gifts, like, rightly ordered, appropriate gifts. I said in the beginning, the right gift demonstrates love and value. And so that's why they. They brought gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Well, what do you Give Jesus today. Like, what you going to get him for Christmas this year? Well, what does he want? Well, he wants you, right? He wants you. But he doesn't need gold, frankincense and myrrh anymore. I mean, he's living in heaven with his Father and there's streets of gold there. They don't need to lift up prayer. He's actually, he is frankincense. He is at the right hand of God the Father, interceding for me and you. And there's no more need for any burial stuff because he came out of the grave and he ain't going back. So where do you get him? Well, Matthew 25 makes it abundantly clear. He's like, you want to do something for me? Do something for the least of these. And if the modern day Christians like, well, how do I do that? Sponsor a kid through Compassion International.
- [61:41]
Host 1
We're going to put that in the show notes too.
- [61:42]
Pastor Joby Martin
There you go.
- [61:43]
Host 1
It's a bit like what you were saying earlier, though. You don't have to pray about it. You know, it's like you don't need a sign or a dream. It's already there. Correct.
- [61:49]
Pastor Joby Martin
You know? Correct.
- [61:50]
Host 2
Yeah. Text sponsor to 83393.
- [61:52]
Pastor Joby Martin
Yep.
- [61:53]
Host 2
Do it right now.
- [61:54]
Host 1
Amen. Anything else for us? Want to pray, Pastor Joby?
- [61:58]
Pastor Joby Martin
Nah, man, that's it. I hope you have a very, very merry Christmas. And if you really, really, really want to help some other people, have a very merry Christmas. Sponsor a kid through Compassion International.
- [62:08]
Host 2
Amen.
- [62:09]
Pastor Joby Martin
And then one day, man, I'm. One day you'll stand before the Lord and you know he's going to say, enter into the joy of my father. Because when I was hungry, you fed me, and when I had no clothes, you clothed me. And when I was sick, you visited me. All of these things, right? And a way that you can do that for Jesus is through the least of these. And so we can partner with Compassion like we have for years and years and years to help release children from poverty in Jesus name. Let's pray. Father in heaven, Lord, we love you because you love us first. God, we thank you for this season as just a constant reminder that you came on a rescue mission for us. And the moment we get rescued, we are a part of that rescue team. And so, God, we always ask you and even thank you for all of your blessings towards us. So may we live the kind of lives by doing unto the least of these that blesses you in Jesus name. Amen.
- [63:09]
Host 2
Amen.
- [63:09]
Pastor Joby Martin
Thank you for listening to the podcast.
- [63:18]
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