Deepen with Pastor Joby Martin

Episode: What does it mean to seek God? (S25E3)
Date: December 22, 2025
Host: Pastor Joby Martin
Special Guests: Church of Eleven22 pastors

Episode Overview

This episode delves into what it truly means to seek God, using the story of the Magi ("wise men") from Matthew 2 as a springboard. Pastor Joby discusses the biblical and historical backgrounds of the Magi, challenges cultural and theological misconceptions, and explores how genuine seeking leads to encountering Jesus. The conversation draws connections between scripture, cultural traditions, church practices, and personal experiences of faith, all while maintaining Eleven22's signature blend of biblical depth and relatable humor.

Major Themes & Discussion Points

1. Humor and Church Culture (00:17–03:10)

• The pastors share festive greetings and reflect on the church’s use of humor in services and media.
• Quote: “Humor is the language of the heart... it definitely drops defenses.” – Pastor Joby Martin (02:30)
• Emphasis on authenticity and not taking themselves too seriously, making church approachable.

2. Debunking Myths about the Magi (03:11–04:17)

• Challenges common nativity myths (i.e., "three kings," diverse ethnic backgrounds/names).
• Quote: “Maybe definitely not kings... and the star didn’t come in the east. We got it all wrong.” – Pastor Joby Martin (03:22)
• Historical and biblical context about the Magi as Medo-Persian government officials tied to Daniel’s legacy.

3. The Magi’s Journey: History & Faith (04:18–10:05)

• Drawing connections between the Babylonian exile, Daniel’s influence, and the Magi’s knowledge (04:24).
• The star (or celestial sign) they followed: multiple theories discussed (planetary conjunction, comet, miraculous light). Ultimately, the exact nature is less important than the act of seeking itself (09:56).
• The commitment and cost of the journey exemplify faith: “With very little information... but just in case it might be true, they... travel 800 miles.” – Pastor Joby Martin (07:02)

4. Seeking and Finding: Spiritual Application (10:06–14:02)

• Uses the metaphor of searching for shark teeth: “If you don’t look for it, you’ll never find it.” (11:24)
• The religious elite (scribes/chief priests) missed Jesus – not out of ignorance, but self-interest.
• “The people that look for Jesus find Jesus... he’s not hiding.” – Pastor Joby Martin (11:46)
• Avoiding the posture of Herod (self-focused) or religious leaders (trapped in tradition).

5. General Revelation & Scripture (14:03–18:59)

• Creation points generally to God, but only Scripture reveals Jesus and salvation.
• The necessity of both “books”: God’s Word and God’s World.
• Quote: “The Grand Canyon will not tell you Christ came as a substitutionary atonement for your sins... you need the revealed word of God.” – Pastor Joby Martin (14:45)
• The Magi are seen as an early model of "theologically trained scientists" who worship.

6. Recognizing Jesus: Outsiders & Insiders (19:00–24:33)

• Matthew’s gospel contrasts those who recognize Jesus (outsiders like the Magi, later Gentiles) with those who miss Him (insiders).
• Religious power structures sometimes lead to spiritual blindness.
• Quote: “If you don’t think you need to be saved, you will never find a savior.” – Pastor Joby Martin (24:10)

7. Faith in Action: The Magi’s Sacrifice (24:34–25:51)

• The Magi’s gifts and journey weren’t viewed as sacrifices but a privilege.
• Quote: “How could you sacrifice to be generous to God?... It’s like giving up hunger for a good meal...” – Pastor Joby Martin (25:01)

8. Gifts of the Magi and Their Meanings (25:52–32:08)

• Gold = king, Frankincense = priest, Myrrh = death/burial.
• These align with Jesus’ threefold office (king, priest, savior).
• Discusses personal stories about meaningful and “missed” gifts, highlighting that giving reflects knowledge and love (27:34).
• The Magi’s gifts likely financed Joseph and Mary’s flight to Egypt, paralleling God’s provision for Israel in Exodus.

9. Jesus as the Greater Moses/Israel (33:09–37:19)

• Drawing typological parallels between Moses and Jesus:
  • Escaping infanticide (Pharaoh/Herod)
  • 400 years of oppression/silence
  • Deliverance and exile
• “Jesus is the greater Israel” – the One in whom all promises are fulfilled.

10. Attacks on God’s Order and the Role of Men (35:00–37:19)

• Comparison of ancient and modern assaults on families and manhood.
• The church’s recent focus on biblical manhood, aligning with spiritual growth and health.
• Quote: “When you get that thing right... everything begins to order itself rightly.” – Pastor Joby Martin (36:21)

11. Signs, Guidance, and Seeking God’s Will (39:45–44:44)

• Explores the tension between seeking guidance through signs (e.g., Gideon’s fleece) versus God’s revealed will.
• “If you are genuinely, like, trying to align yourself with God’s will... that’s a prayer he wants to answer. He’s not a God of confusion.” – Pastor Joby Martin (40:53)
• Cautions against reading into circumstances/signs without seeking the Savior and being grounded in the Word, prayer, and community.

12. The Danger of Personal Bias in Interpreting Scripture (46:44–48:51)

• Addresses Kirk Cameron’s recent comments on hell (annihilationism vs. eternal punishment).
• Warns against approaching Scripture to confirm existing preferences: “Did you have your feelings... first, and then you’re trying to get the Bible to support you?”

13. Dreams and God’s Communication (49:35–50:20)

• God still uses dreams, especially as initial steps toward Christ (notably among Muslims).
• The ultimate metric: is it Christ-centered? “If it’s not Christ-centered, approach that thing with caution.”

14. “Seeker” Churches, Paul, and True Seeking (50:20–53:08)

• Nuanced explanation of “no one seeks God” (Romans): the Spirit initiates seekers.
• Eleven22 aims to glorify God, making the gospel accessible without catering to comfort.
• “Lost people coming to Christ and found people being put on mission... that’s what glorifies God.” – Pastor Joby Martin (52:10)

15. Keeping the Mission in Focus: Inviting and Welcoming (53:09–55:16)

• Personal story about inviting someone to church and the difference it makes in experiencing services through guests’ eyes.

16. Seeking Truth, Need, and the Human Condition (55:20–60:14)

• Not everyone is searching for truth, but God honors those who admit need (“Blessed are the poor in spirit”).
• All genuine searches—whether for meaning, joy, or purpose—ultimately lead to Christ, who is “the way, the truth, and the life.” (60:07)

17. Responding to Jesus: What Can We Offer? (60:38–62:08)

• The real gift Jesus wants is us—our lives.
• Calls for practical response: serving "the least of these" through Compassion International.

Noteworthy Quotes & Moments

• “Humor is the language of the heart... it definitely drops defenses.” (02:30)
• “You find what you’re looking for... If you don’t look for it, you’ll never find it.” (11:23)
• “The people that look for Jesus, find Jesus... because he’s not hiding.” (11:46)
• “The Grand Canyon will not tell you Christ came as a substitutionary atonement for your sins... you need the revealed word of God.” (14:45)
• “If you don’t think you need to be saved, you will never find a savior.” (24:10)
• “Sacrificial giving... how could you sacrifice to be generous to God? That’s like giving up hunger for a good meal.” (25:01)
• “When you know him as Lord, Savior and Christ, then... your hands just fling open...” (27:29)
• “If it’s God’s will, it’s God’s bill.” (32:14)
• “When you get that thing right... everything begins to order itself rightly.” (36:21)
• “Don't look for a sign; look for the Savior.” (41:38)
• “Make faithfulness the target, not some kind of... whim or feeling.” (42:38)
• “If you just study the Word, it’s going to lead you to all kinds of places that... we just can’t get our head around.” (47:22)
• “Wise men still seek him.” (60:14—paraphrased)

Key Timestamps

• 00:17–03:10: Opening banter, church humor
• 03:11–04:17: Magi myths debunked
• 04:18–10:05: Magi’s journey; astronomical theories
• 10:06–14:02: Seeking, finding, spiritual posture
• 14:03–18:59: Nature vs. Scripture in revelation
• 19:00–24:33: Outsiders recognizing Jesus
• 24:34–25:51: Faith, sacrifice, Magi’s persistence
• 25:52–32:08: The meaning and use of the Magi’s gifts
• 33:09–37:19: Jesus as the greater Israel, family/masculinity
• 39:45–44:44: Signs and seeking God’s will
• 46:44–48:51: Personal bias and scripture
• 49:35–50:20: God speaking through dreams
• 50:20–53:08: “Seeking God”—Spirit vs. seeker sensitivity
• 53:09–55:16: Welcoming guests, church culture
• 55:20–60:14: Seeking truth, the need for a savior
• 60:38–62:08: Application—giving to Jesus today

Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, approachable, and practical, grounded in clear biblical teaching and peppered with humor and personal anecdotes—reflective of the Church of Eleven22’s ethos. The pastors nimbly move from light-hearted stories to profound theological insights, maintaining clarity, humility, and a call to authentic faith.

For Listeners Who Missed It

• The Magi’s story is about the posture of seeking with limited information and great cost—true faith.
• Don’t let religiosity or self-sufficiency make you blind to Jesus.
• God reveals himself through both Scripture and creation, but only Scripture brings you all the way home.
• Real seeking is humble and driven by need for a savior, not merely for existential answers.
• The gifts of the Magi symbolize Jesus’ full identity as king, priest, and redeemer.
• The way to honor Jesus now: offer yourself and serve the “least of these.”
• True wisdom? Wise men still seek him.

To respond to the episode’s final call, consider sponsoring a child through Compassion International.

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