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- [00:15]
Amy Goodman
From New York. This is Democracy Now.
- [00:19]
CENTCOM Commander Admiral Brad Cooper
Our warfighters are leveraging a variety of advanced AI tools. These systems help us sift through vast amounts of data in seconds so our leaders can cut through the noise and make smarter decisions faster than the enemy can react.
- [00:33]
Amy Goodman
As the US and Israeli war in Iran enters its 19th day, we look at how the US is using artificial intelligence to identify and prioritize targets using a system created by Palantir. This possibly includes the strike on the Iranian girls school that killed over 170, mostly girls. It comes amidst a legal battle between the Pentagon and the AI firm Anthropic, which opposes its models being used for mass surveillance of Americans and fully autonomous weapons. We'll get the latest then. The highest Trump administration official yet. The director of the National Counterterrorism center has resigned over the war in Iran, magnifying a rift within the Maga movement over the war. Plus, we look at the Trump administration's escalating attacks on the media. President Trump says some news outlets should be charged with treason is punishable by death. FCC Chair Brendan Carr is threatening to revoke the licenses of broadcasters. And Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's pushing for Trump allies to take over more of the media.
- [01:50]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
CNN doesn't think we thought of that. It's a fundamentally unserious report. The sooner David Ellison takes over that network, the better.
- [02:01]
Amy Goodman
All that and more coming up. Welcome to Democracy now, democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. Israel says it's killed Iran's intelligence minister Ismail Khatib in a strike overnight in Tehran. It's the latest assassination of Iran's senior leadership. This comes as Iran is set to hold funerals today for its security chief Ali Larajani and bastard siege commander Gholam Reza Soleimani, both of whom were also killed in an Israeli strike. On Tuesday, Iran vowed revenge and launched retaliatory strikes against Israel. Two people were killed near Tel Aviv by an Iranian missile strike, Israeli emergency responders said earlier today. On Tuesday, the US dropped 5,000 pound bunker buster bombs along Iran's coast near the Strait of Hormuz to target Iran's anti ship cruise missiles. It comes as Joe Kent, the Director of the U.S. national Counterterrorism center resigned Tuesday over the U. S. Israeli war on Iran. In a letter to President Trump posted on X, Kent wrote, quote, iran posed no imminent threat to our nation and it's clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby, unquote. Kent is the first senior official to openly break with the White House over the war on Iran. He's a longtime Trump supporter who unsuccessfully ran for Congress twice during his 2022 election bid. Kent hired a member of the far right Proud Boys as a consultant. Meanwhile, top intelligence officials are expected to testify before the Senate Intelligence Committee later today. It comes as senior Israeli officials have told US Diplomats, Iranian protesters will, quote, get slaughtered, unquote, if they demonstrate against their government, even as Israel has been promoting anti regime protests. That's according to a State Department cable reviewed by the Washington Post. Iran's Ministry of Health says at least 1,444 people have been killed and nearly 19,000 injured in U. S. Israeli attacks on Iran since February 28th. This is a worker with the Iranian Red Crescent.
- [04:41]
Iranian Red Crescent Worker
During the operations of the imposed war from the US And Israel against my country, the Islamic State of Iran, we have seen many heartbreaking scenes. Unfortunately, we have witnessed killing and injuring many of our civilian citizens that happened during the attacks to residential places at night or during other times and created tragic scenes.
- [05:03]
Amy Goodman
Iran continues to launch retaliatory strikes against its neighbors in the region. In Iraq, Iranian rocket attacks have targeted the US Embassy in Baghdad and a drone sparked a fire at a luxury hotel in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone. In the uae, an Iranian projectile landed near a military base that hosts Australian troops. Several Gulf nations, including Kuwait, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates said they're continuing to intercept Iranian missiles and drones. On Monday, Iran launched almost 100 drones at Saudi Arabia, according to the Saudi Defense Ministry. Israel launched airstrikes on central Beirut earlier today, demolishing a residential high rise building. The Israeli military issued an evacuation warning for the building in central Beirut, saying it was a facility used by. Meanwhile, in southern Lebanon, Israeli troops have been conducting ground operations, ordering the evacuation of several villages. According to the Lebanese Public Health ministry, at least 912 people, including 111 children, have been killed and 2,221 people have been wounded in Lebanon's assault on Israel's assault on Lebanon. The Norwegian refugee council said 1 million people, about a sixth of Lebanon's population, been displaced. This is Tamim Al Khitan, a spokesperson for the UN Commissioner for Human Rights.
- [06:42]
Craig Jones
In many instances, Israeli airstrikes have destroyed entire residential buildings in dense urban environments, with multiple members of the same family, including women and children, often killed together. Such attacks raise concerns under international humanitarian law.
- [07:03]
Amy Goodman
Iran's Parliament speaker, Mohammad Farrar Khaliba issued a stark warning about the Strait of Hormuz, saying in a post on X that the strait, quote, won't return to its pre war status, unquote. This comes as President Trump blasted NATO members as they inform the US they will not get involved in Trump's coalition to reopen the strait. In a post on X, President Trump wrote, quote, I am not surprised by their action however, because I always considered NATO, where we spend hundreds of billions of dollars per year protecting these same countries to be a one way street. We'll protect them but they will do nothing for us in particular in a time of need, Trump said, this is French President Emmanuel Macron.
- [07:54]
CENTCOM Commander Admiral Brad Cooper
We are not party to the conflict
- [07:56]
Josh Paul
and therefore France will never take part
- [07:58]
Craig Jones
in operations to open or liberate the Strait of Hormuz.
- [08:01]
Amy Goodman
In the context Gas prices in the US Continue to increase as Iran has effectively blocked the Strait of Hormuz, which sees the passage of about 20% of the world's oil supply. According to AAA, the national average price for gas reached $3.84 a gallon Wednesday, rising 5 cents a day. Overall, gas prices have jumped 29% since the war began. This comes as the UN warms 40 million people around the world are at risk of acute hunger due to rising food prices sparked by the U S Israeli war in Iran. Here in the United States, Attorney General Pam Bondi and her deputy Todd Blanche are set to testify before the House Oversight Committee on the Justice Department's handling of the Epstein files later today. Committee Chair James Comer subpoenaed Bondi yesterday, writing in a letter, quote, as Attorney General, you are directly responsible for overseeing the department's collection, review and determinations regarding the release of files pursuant to the Epstein Files Transparency act, and the committee therefore believes that you possess valuable insight into these efforts, comer wrote. Meanwhile, a New York Times review of thousands of pages of Justice Department documents found the late convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein spent heavily on a rotating team of search engine optimization experts, self described hackers and content writers. To reshape how Epstein appeared on Google and Wikipedia after his 2008 sex crimes conviction. Senate Democrats late Tuesday sent the White House a new counteroffer to fund the Department of Homeland Security, which has been under a partial shutdown for more than a month. The Trump administration has so far ignored demands from Democrats, such as requiring officers to obtain a judicial warrant to enter private homes and to address the excessive use of force by immigration agents. Earlier Tuesday, the administration signaled it's open to enforcing, quote, the use of visible officer identification, though Trump officials have not conceded to prohibiting officers from wearing face coverings. This comes as Trump's homeland security secretary nominee. Republican Senator Mark Wayne Mullen is set to appear before a Senate committee today as his confirmation process begins. Trump appointed Mullen to replace Kristi Noem, who was fired from the position as head of Department of Homeland Security earlier this month. Several immigrants from El Salvador who were deported by the Trump administration last year have been disappeared and subjected to arbery detention in their home country. That's according to a new report by Human Rights Watch, which said at least 11 deported Salvadorans have languished in detention for months since being deported from the United States to El Salvador. They have not been allowed to communicate with their families or provided due process. Some of them were deported last March, along with dozens of Venezuelans and sent to the troubled Secat megaprison in El Salvador, where there are mounting reports of torture, including sexual violence. A federal judge has temporarily blocked the Trump administration from terminating Temporary Protected statusthat's TPS for immigrants from Somalia. The judge's emergency order came as the relief was slated to end yesterday. The Council on American Islamic Relations, CAIR's Minnesota chapter, said in a statement, quote, this decision brings a critical moment of relief for Somali families across Minnesota and the country who've been living under the weight of uncertainty, unquote. Minnesota is home to one of the largest Somali populations in the the United States. The Trump administration is considering withholding HIV treatment, tuberculosis and malaria medications from Zambia in order to force the country to open its minds to US Companies. That's according to a leaked State Department memo obtained by the New York Times. The memo says, quote, we will only secure our priorities by demonstrating willingness to publicly take support away from Zambia on a massive scale. Unquote. The proposed deal would offer Zambia $1 billion in health funding over five years, which is less than half of what the country received before President Trump took office. In return, Zambia would need to grant US Companies access to its copper, cobalt and lithium reserves and agree to restructure a nearly half billion dollar agricultural grant to require regulatory changes. Mining sector about 1.3 million people in Zambia rely on daily HIV treatment provided through US aid programs. Cuba's restored power after a 29 hour island wide blackout left millions of people without electricity. Cuban energy officials said they'd reconnected the national power grid that had completely collapsed Monday, but blackouts are expected to continue. A US Energy blockade has cut off Cuba from accessing desperately needed fuel as the Trump administration intensifies its pressure to topple the Cuban government. The Justice Department's dismissed charges against an army veteran who set a U.S. flag on fire across the street from the White House last year. The protest, held by John J. Carey, came in response to a Trump executive order that mandated federal agencies to vigorously prosecute anyone who burns the US Flag. Kerry was not charged with flag burning, but faced two misdemeanors, including for igniting a fire in an undesignated area. A 1989 Supreme Court ruling determined the burning of a U.S. flag as protected speech under the First Amendment. A federal judge in Rhode island ordered the Trump administration to restore a union contract with 320,000 Veterans Affairs Department workers. This comes after Doug Collins, the VA secretary, canceled the union agreement back in August. U.S. district Judge Melissa Dubose agreed with the American Federation of Government Employees that the VA canceled its bargaining agreement as retaliation for the union's opposition to the Trump administration's labor policies. Everett Kelly, the president of the American Federation of Government Employees, said the ruling, quote, holds this administration accountable and makes clear no one can retaliate against workers for standing up for their rights, unquote. And in Illinois, Lieutenant Governor Juliana Stratton won Tuesday's Democratic Senate primary in a race to succeed Senator Dick Durbin, who's retiring. Al Jazeera and the Intercept reported dozens of donor groups aligned with the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, known as aipac, gave money to Stratton's campaign. If elected in November, Stratton could become the sixth black woman to serve in the Senate in US History. Meanwhile, Evanston Mayor Daniel Biss won the Democratic primary in a closely watched race for a U.S. house seat that's not been vacant for nearly three decades. More than a dozen Democrats ran to succeed the retiring Congressmember John Schakowski, who's been in office since 1999. Progressive candidate Kat Ubagazzela finished second. Groups linked to AIPEC spent millions of dollars attacking both her and bis. And those are some of the headlines. This is Democracy now. Democracynow.org, the War and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. As the U.S. and Israeli war extends into its 19th day, we turn now to look at how the U.S. is using artificial intelligence to identify and prioritize targets. The system, known as Project Maven, was created by Palantir, and it incorporates the AI model Claude, built by Anthropic. The Pentagon's investigating if the AI system played a role in the US strike on the Iranian girls school that killed over 170 people, mostly girls. This is CENTCOM Commander Admiral Brad Cooper talking about the use of AI in Iran.
- [17:20]
CENTCOM Commander Admiral Brad Cooper
Our warfighters are leveraging a variety of advanced AI tools. These systems help us sift through vast amounts of data in seconds so our leaders can cut through the noise and make smarter decisions faster than the enemy can react. Humans will always make final decisions on what to shoot and what not to shoot and when to shoot. But advanced AI tools can turn processes that used to take hours and sometimes even days into seconds.
- [17:47]
Amy Goodman
Israel's used similar AI targeting programs in Iran as well as in Gaza and Lebanon. The Pentagon also reportedly used the AI tools during the recent military attack on Venezuela when US Special forces abducted the Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro and his wife Celia Flores. This comes as a major rift has emerged between Anthropic and the Pentagon after Anthropic moved to restrict the use of its technology for mass surveillance of Americans and for fully autonomous weapons. In late February, President Trump ordered federal agencies to stop using Anthropic products. Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth declared the firm a supply chain risk, effectively cutting it off from government contracts and related work. It marked the first time the Pentagon's designated a U.S. company as a supply chain risk, prompting Anthropic to sue. On Tuesday, CNN reported that nearly 150 retired federal and state judges have filed an amicus brief supporting Anthropic and its lawsuit against the Trump administration. We're joined now by Craig Jones, senior lecturer in political geography at Newcastle University, author of Lawyers the United States, Israel and Juridical Warfare. He's the co author of a new article in the conversation headlined Iran War Shows How AI Speeds Up Military Kill Chains. Why don't we start there, Professor Jones?
- [19:33]
Craig Jones
Thank you. Yeah, I mean the US military, the Israeli military, as your headlines have said, using AI. The kill chain is a, is a bureaucratic mechanism whereby militaries go from trying to designate targets, to identify enemies and military targets to the process of actually killing them. They're in in the process, across the 20th century, early 21st century of speeding that process up. Military drones have helped greatly with that and the latest front of that is AI. As Bradley Cooper talked about, you're reducing a massive human workload of tens of thousands of hours into seconds and minutes. You're reducing workflows and you're automating human made targeting decisions in ways in which I think open up all kinds of problematic legal, ethical and political questions.
- [20:24]
Amy Goodman
The US Israel war in Iran is being described as the first AI war. Explain what that means, Chris.
- [20:34]
Craig Jones
Yeah, I would say it's not quite the first day war. As you mentioned, Israel has used AI in Gaza. I think this was the first major use of AI in warfare. I think actually the history goes back a little longer with computer programs with partially enabled with AI have been used in the background of military systems for several years now. It was used in a major way in Gaza in the first few months where we saw tens of thousands of targets put in a target bank opted by military intelligence. Up to 35,000 suspected Hamas combatants found themselves on this list as Israel worked through that to assassinate them as well as tens of thousands of targets that are ultimately part of the civilian infrastructure. As you said, the US has used it with Maduro and now Israel and the US also using these systems in Iran. The key innovation here is, is twofold. It is the use of AI for intelligence analysis. Intelligence, military intelligence is multi format. There is so much of it, it hoovers up what they call signals intelligence. So mobile phones, Internet traffic, sms, mobile phone tracking, all kinds of things. And the AI systems are being used to spot what militaries call patterns of life. You know, who meets with who, who talks with who, what are the nature of the messages, how are they interacting in, in ways which are deemed suspicious. And the AI systems look for those patterns and make recommendations. Which is the second innovation for targets. They nominate targets to this bank of targets which then has, which we can talk about some technical human oversight. And that's problematic. I think it's problematic because that's a really persuasive technology. It's nominating hundreds, thousands of targets potentially a day and it's working at speeds which are just beyond the evolution of human cognition. Again, ways that are problematic.
- [22:37]
Amy Goodman
Can you explain? I mean this is being investigated by everyone, including the US government and the Pentagon, how Palantir was used, it's believed in the first strikes. The first day of the U S Israeli war on Iran may have been involved in the targeting of a girls school in southern Iran using the tools of Palantir and Claude, which is a property of anthropic.
- [23:13]
Craig Jones
Yeah. So this strike on the girls school is at the moment the leading kind of civilian casualty incident in which around, as you've said, 170 mainly girls were killed, innocent civilians at the start. We should remember some of the history of this. It was denied by the US military, insinuated at one point that it was an Iranian missile. It was later verified that it was indeed a US series of Tomahawk missiles that struck this, this area. And US preliminary investigation has now found and confirmed indeed what many people thought which was that US is responsible. It looks, we're not yet clear the Role of AI in that particular strike. Whether that becomes clear in the coming days and weeks, we'll have to see. What we do know is that the CLAUDE and anthropic model via Palantir have been extensively used to do several things, including the intelligence analysis. So we can deduce that that AI system is not yet capable of detecting or is at least, you know, open to making system wide errors. It did not identify the school as a school in an extremely problematic way in which, you know, within a couple of days, organizations such as the New York Times are able to verify via satellite imagery that there is a wall that's been put up around 13 years ago between the school and IRGC compound that was nearby. If you'd have been watching drone footage from above, as militaries have the capability of do just for, you know, half an hour before or a few hours before, you would have seen, you know, that morning, 170 girls dropped off by their parents. And that would have been identified as a non military target with clearly civilian usage.
- [25:02]
Amy Goodman
But let's get, let's drill this because yes, there was this military facility right next to it as you described years ago. A woe was built between the two. So you've got the school very clearly identified. But how does AI work where you have this old, what, 10 year old perhaps information about it being a military base that's fed in and then it is never updated. Where do human beings come into this?
- [25:36]
Craig Jones
Yeah, this is a really important question. Where it gets, you know, it gets tricky but, but we could, we know a lot already. So it looks like it's just an intelligence failure. That an area marked on a map, this is, you know, the whole entire area has been marked as a military compound. There is obligations, you know, legal obligations and ethical obligations and just political obligations within defense intelligence agencies to check this. So what happens is some of these targets are nominated from US Military bases back in the United States. Some of those people I've worked with over the last several years on what that, what they call target nomination, what it looks like, they hand that over to centcom, who I know you cover. And they have bases in the Middle east, there's a central one based in Qatar where these targeting decisions are executed. There is an obligation for CENTCOM to check and double check that intelligence that it's up to date, that everything's kosher on the target. It's clear that that was not done. Whether that was, you know, there should be a human oversight of that, even if it's, if it's AI recommended, or even if it's human recommended, there should be some human intelligence checking, it looks like, for whatever reason, and we don't yet know why. So what happens also is a really interesting technicality is everything in a society that the US Military is targeting de facto is labeled on a no strike list because everything is assumed to be civilian. And in order to strike it, you need to put it. Get it off the no strike list list to be able to target it. So the question here is, why was this school taken off a no strike list, deemed a legitimate military target? It looks like a combination of AI and human intelligence, failure to produce something.
- [27:19]
Amy Goodman
And to talk about how Palantir interacts with claude, which is owned by Anthropic, especially for the Luddites who are listening all over for. People don't quite understand how this all works.
- [27:34]
Craig Jones
So, yeah, from what we know, you know, Palantir is a system much like a deep software system that, you know, like a video game that has all kinds of inputs that you can look at targets. You have all kind of variables like, you know, what size missile should we drop, what is the compound that we're looking at? What's it made out of? All these human. These variables with intelligence overlays. And then in the same way that software works on a computer is the CLAUDE is that thing which is the background, which is kind of, you know, doing the processing of that data, making those recommendations, and then it provides the human some parameters that the. That the human or operator or targeteer can then kind of play with. Obviously, it's. It's highly sensitive and secretive, and beyond the very few people using it, you know, the designers, even with Anthropic would be a very small amount of people who have the intelligence clearance. And we've seen this stuff working with sensitive military data. We know from some of the things they've released, like the demos that they've released, we can see some of what that looks like. And one of the most worrying developments that I've seen and from what's publicly available, is the lack of attention and ability to track civilian casualties within those programs. And that's something which we've seen, you know, this war on lawyers and war on civilians casualty harm that the administration's built for several years in the U.S. department of Defense has been eroded by the Trump administration. And you actually see that now programmed into the software.
- [29:08]
Amy Goodman
This is Palantir CEO Alex Karp, interviewed on CNBC last week.
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Palantir CEO Alex Karp
These technologies are dangerous societally. The only justification you could possibly have would Be that if we don't do it, our adversaries and will do it and we will be subject to their rule of law. So you, if you decouple this from the support of the military, you're going to have an enormous problem explaining to the American people why is it that we're absorbing the risk of disrupting the very fabric of our society, including the most powerful parts of our society, if it's not because it's about maintaining our ability to be American in the near term and long term.
- [29:54]
Amy Goodman
Craig Jones, if you can, respond to the CEO of Palantir.
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Craig Jones
Paladin has a long history of making serious tens of millions, billions of profit from what ultimately I see as killing people in faraway lands that are too easy not to care about. I think this latest endeavor is as we've kind of started this arms race, it's been good to see at least Anthropic, you know, throw their hands up and say we want some ethical parameters put on that. But even that which seems to be, you know, and meanwhile, as that whole controversy has been playing out, as you covered with the Trump administration, we see Sam Altman from OpenAI rush in and take the contract that Anthropic has ultimately dropped huge profits. There are huge. The DoD is a department of War, is a huge customer customer for many Silicon Valley firms. We've seen Microsoft use their platforms for the Israeli targeting. Apparently Microsoft are looking into that. We see Google AI analytics also used for Palantir and for US DoD contracts. This is huge money. And I think, you know, should the Silicon Valley community wake up to ultimately the consequences of the technologies which they're working on and see their effects on the ground, which is where I work with the people who have lost entire families who've had their homes destroyed destroyed, who've been displaced, who have, you know, had their legs blown off, there's this real disconnect between those tens of billions being made for profits of war and those people who suffer its consequences.
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Amy Goodman
This is OpenAI CEO Sam Altman, who you mentioned speaking at the India AI Impact Summit in New Delhi in February.
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OpenAI CEO Sam Altman
We don't yet know how to think about some superintelligence being aligned with dictators in totalitarian countries. We don't know how to think about countries using AI to fight new kinds of war with each other. We don't know how to think about when and whether countries are going to have to think about new forms of social contracts. But we think it's important to have more understanding and society wide debate before we're all surprised.
- [32:01]
Amy Goodman
So that's Sam Altman of OpenAI and just quoting the Pentagon, Secretary Trump calls him the War Secretary. The Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth at a briefing in the last days. Unlike so many of our traditional allies who wring their hands and clutch their pearls, hemming and hawing about the use of force, America, regardless of what international institutions say is unleashing the most lethal and precise air power campaign in history. B2s, fighters, drones, missiles, and of course, classified effects, all on our terms with maximum authorities. No stupid rules of engagement, no nation building quagmire, no democracy building exercise guys, no politically correct wars. Craig Jones
- [32:54]
Craig Jones
those are two jarring statements, Sam Altman's ideas. I think in some, you know, in what he said, he's right. We don't know about this, we don't know about that, what the future holds. My, my view would be that because we don't know the potential dangers, risks and damages that these technologies brings, we should pause as societies, as companies, as nations, as leaders leaders to have a serious conversation about what kind of AI future we want, whether this is a world that we want to build. Meanwhile, Hesketh, the Department of War in January released a statement, a whole program actually called the AI warfare fighter strategy, which some of the quote that you've just read comes from. And it talks about maximum lethality. As you say, out with the rules of engagement. This is a deliberate sidelining of the checks and balances accountabilities for war, the firing of military lawyers who are the community that I've worked with that give legal advice to militaries and just going ahead with it and saying, Hesketh saying explicitly, you know, just because we don't know how these technologies work, we need this first mover advantage. And it's that classic move fast and break things and, you know, we don't care about the consequences. It's. These are really worrying times and developments.
- [34:09]
Amy Goodman
You've referred to the war lawyer several times since the title of your book explain what you mean and how they've been fired and sidelined.
- [34:18]
Craig Jones
So these military lawyers have been, you know, fighting alongside militaries for centuries. In fact, the US Corps is the oldest law firm in America and they do all kinds of things. But the thing that I've been interested in is they're giving advice to military commanders and decision makers for operations. At any time a single time target has struck in the last couple of decades, you would have a military lawyer present looking at things, doing what's called the proportionality calculation. So okay, here's the military target. What's the risk of civilians? Should we go ahead, should we pause? Are there certain measures we can take to avoid civilian casualties? And a host of other considerations. You know, one would be the girls school. Is this a legitimate target or is this indeed a girls school? So that's, that's military necessity. And, you know, they've had a long history and, you know, I work with them. These are professional, serious people, educated at the best law school throughout America. They're also soldiers. Israel has its own version of them. And, you know, they've done credible, credible work with militaries. And the Trump administration, one of the first acts that he does after he's sworn in, in his second term is to fire the heads of those legal units. So, you know, the Navy, the Army, the Air Force, each have their own heads. He fired them. And then further down the ranks, he fired and replaced them with yes men. And beyond the firing and replacing, we are hearing from reporting and from some of my own contacts that the military lawyers are either just not being listened to when they raise objections, or they're becoming silent in these war rooms where these decisions are made. Because much like in the Trump administration, where his civilian and his advisors are around him, unless you say yes and go along with it, you're simply not welcome there and you'll either be fired or not listened to. And so, again, seriously worrying, especially when you put that alongside this simultaneous war on all these civilian casualty initiatives. So there was something called the center of Excellence, which was to do with civilian protection. It's been a decade in the making. Lots of senior people in the US Administrations, from Obama to Biden through Trump term one have been involved in that. And Trump presses control alt del on day one and gets rid of the civilian center because they're not interested in, in avoiding civilian casualties, which feels like we're hearkening back to Vietnam or something.
- [36:42]
Amy Goodman
Finally, Craig Jones, we just have a minute, but if you can explain this rift between Anthropic and the Pentagon. Anthropic saying its company could not be used for mass surveillance of Americans and for fully autonomous weapons. And then the Trump administration retaliating after they sued President Trump ordering federal agencies to stop using Anthropic products. Pete Hegseth declaring the firm a supply chain risk. But then we hear that Claude, owned by Anthropic, is possibly used by Palantir in targeting this girls school that killed well over 100 girls.
- [37:26]
Craig Jones
Yeah, there's lots to say here. One is that, you know, that seems Like a disproportionate act when a military, when a company just exercises its right to disagree with what the government is doing. And I think the CEO at the time said disagreeing with the government is American as American pie. But the other thing is that this is infrastructure. I think some people think, you know, AI is just a tool. You know, it's something on your desk or it's something in the background, you just press delete it's infrastructure that's embedded in the entire, you know, intelligence apparatus. And so therefore you can't just delete it. So hence why it's still used, hence why it might take up to six months to try and get some of CLAUDE products out of the, out of the software. The other thing is, you know, it was good to see that ethical objection. It seems like the only, you know, know, moral stance which has been taken on these conversations in AI war is certainly in Silicon Valley. I would just object to their objection on two principles. They're against mass surveillance of US Citizens only. They say nothing about citizens around the world. And partly their objection to its youth for lethality is a technical rather than moral objection is to say right now the algorithms are not quite good enough because they have this error rate but they're not necessarily saying that they would wouldn't go along with its use later on. So it's not that they're against lethality and killing per se, but that just technically the algorithms are not quite ready. And so they wanted to press pause. So there's lots to say about that. But it is a disproportionate act and response by the Trump administration, I think.
- [38:56]
Amy Goodman
Craig Jones, want to thank you for being with us. Senior lecturer on Political geography at Newcastle University. Joining us from the uk, the author of the war United States, Israel and juridical expert on modern warfare and aerial targeting. Currently leading a research project on civilian casualties and war related injury in Gaza and Iraq. We'll link to your piece in the conversation. Iran War shows how AI speeds up military Kill chains. Coming up, the director of the National Counterterrorism Centers resigned over the war in Iran, magnifying a rift within the Maga movement over the war. Stay with us.
- [39:37]
Sebastian Zoatski
I don't want to play this game no more the world is changing See the end you're near It's a life of chaos and an age of fear Is this the price we pay? Is this the price we pay? Say us in our truth a lie where we stand when the people decide. Will you give up where you stand and Fight all, and only the strong survive. Welcome to the new world.
- [40:42]
Amy Goodman
Welcome to the new world. This is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman. I cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war in Iran. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, and it's clear we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby, unquote. Those are the words of Joe Kent, who resigned Tuesday as the director of the US National Counterterrorism Center. Kent's the highest ranking Trump official to resign over the Iran war. His resignation exposes a growing rift within the MAGA movement over Trump's foreign policy. Kent served in the Army Special Forces and as a CIA paramilitary officer. Twice ran for Congress and lost. As a candidate, Kent faced widespread scrutiny for his ties to the far right, including Nick Fuentes, who once said Hitler was awesome. Hitler was right, unquote. Kent had acknowledged Fuentes took part in a call to help him broaden his campaign's social media outreach. During his 2022 election bid for Congress, Kent hired a member of the far right, Proud Boys, as a consultant. Kent has also accused the FBI of orchestrating the January 6th insurrection. Last year, President Trump selected Kent to head the National Counterterrorism Center. The Senate confirmed him last July. The Southern Poverty Law center had urged senators to reject Kent, citing what they called his associations with white nationalists, violent groups and anti democracy actors, Unquote. On Tuesday, President Trump was questioned about Joe Kent's resignation. Director of National Counterterrorism Joe Kent, he just resigned today. He said he can't support your conflict with Iran. What's your reaction to that? And did you?
- [42:36]
President Donald Trump
Well, I read his statement. I always thought he was a nice guy, but I always thought he was weak on security, very weak on security. I didn't know him well, but I thought he seemed like a pretty nice guy. But when I read his statement, I realized, realized that it's a good thing that he's out because he said that Iran was not a threat. Iran was a threat. Every country realized what a threat Iran was. The question is whether or not they wanted to do something about it.
- [43:05]
Amy Goodman
To talk more about Joe Kent's resignation from his position as director of National Counterterrorism center, we're joined by another former government official who resigned over another war. Josh Paul, former State Department official who worked on arms deals. He resigned in 2023 to protest the push to increase arms sales to Israel amidst its assault on Gaza. Now Josh Paul is director at a new policy, the lobbying organization he co founded with fellow resignee Tara Kabash to press for a change in US Policy on Palestine and Israel. Josh, welcome back to Democracy Now. Talk about the significance of Joe Kent's resignation. The highest Trump administration official to quit so far.
- [43:48]
Josh Paul
Thank you, Amy. Good to join you. So I think it is a significant resignation in several ways. First of all, of course, on its face, you have here a very senior US Intelligence official who is resigning and saying essentially that the United States is at war, but we are not at war to support our own national interests. We are at war because we have been pushed to do so by a partner country, specifically by a Israel. Of course, in saying that, he is not saying anything that Secretary Marco Rubio, Secretary of State Marco Rubio did not himself say just days into this conflict. The difference is that Kent, and here perhaps his background as a military operator on the ground and special forces for covert operations, you know, coming into the D.C. political scene, I think, you know, probably pretty strongly objects to, given his own experience and of course, course, the loss of his own wife in a terrorist attack in 2018. The second important thing here is that Kent is by my count the 16th US official in the last three years to resign over the U S Israel relationship. That is a trend that now spans both the Biden and Trump administrations. Of course, Kent is the first to resign from the Trump administration and the most senior to resign from either administration. I think a third important factor here is the insight this gives us into the debate that is happening within the MAGA movement when it comes to the U S Israel relationship. We know that there is a very visible, very vocal debate happening in the Democratic Party on that topic. It is clear that there is also a very vocal debate happening within the right wing of American politics. It is just less visible. And that's due to a number of factors, including of course, President Trump, Trump's, you know, management of the political party that is the Republican Party. But I think what we see here is this really coming to the fore and perhaps a leading indicator of further breaks and shifts within the party on this issue to follow.
- [45:50]
Amy Goodman
This is Joe Kent speaking in 2024 about U.S. policy towards Iran.
- [45:57]
Joe Kent
We have to stop making ourselves easy targets in the region. Our presence in the region actually makes us much, much more, more in an unsafe condition. And it gives Iran the ability to access us in a very, very easy way. Deprive Iran of targets, deprive Iran of funding, strengthen the Abraham Accords, Let Israel take care of their own business.
- [46:18]
Amy Goodman
Your response, Josh?
- [46:19]
Josh Paul
Paul, so joke and certainly knows the threat that Iran posed to US Forces when they are in the Middle east. Having been awarded the Bronze Star several times, including for actions in Iraq. I think his point here is that this is again, you know, whatever threat Iran may pose within the region, it is not a threat to the United States. And the reason that we are currently engaged in this is in great part because of our presence in the region that is there to protect Israel in many cases from the consequences of its own actions. And we see that most vividly here. I think it is very clear that we would not be in this conflict if it were not for that presence, if it were not for that relationship. Relationship. And I think at the end of the day, US national security officials, intelligence officials, are there to put America's interests first.
- [47:06]
Amy Goodman
It's interesting how the MAGA movement, the House speaker has just changed the rationale for attacking Iran, saying that this attack on Iran avoided a mass casualty event and the question of whether this could provoke attacks on US soil. It's interesting that kentthis is in Mother Jones magazine. Trump's pick for counterterrorism terrorism called for arresting BLM leaders as terrorists who they were focusing on people like Kent. He said we need to treat antifa and BLM like terrorist organizations. We need to use the tools of the federal government, the FBI, the US Marshals, go after them like organized criminals and terrorists. This is how he spoke when Trump was supporting him. And of course you have Tulsi Gabbard who is head of national intelligence and instead she is spending her time looking at how Trump actually won the election, currying favor with Trump and she was down in Georgia when they were taking something like 700 boxes from the Georgia election office.
- [48:12]
Josh Paul
Yeah, and I mean, let's be clear, Joe Kent is very much within the core sort of of the MAGA movement. At the same time as the Director of the National Counterterrorism center and prior to that as chief of the staff for the Director of National Intelligence. He and the NCTC have provided core support to the FBI's so called 107 or post October 7th task force, of course, engaged regularly in two way intelligence sharing with Israel. And you heard his previous comments when it comes to, you know, advancing Israel's interests in the region and enabling Israel, you know, to take that leadership on its own behalf rather than the U.S. exercising that leadership for it at cost to our own equities. So I think that there are a number of factors here. At the end of the day, I think what's clear is that Kent is someone who has, you know, I think was at the top of his career here, was only in the job for a year. I don't think went into that job with an intention of leaving it, but at the end of the day saw the dreadful impact that we see now on the global economy, on the US Economy, on US Interests of this war that Prime Minister Netanyahu has dragged us into and felt he had to stand up and speak.
- [49:22]
Amy Goodman
You're the former director at the Bureau of Political Military affairs in the State Department where you worked for 11 years. Josh Paul, as we wrap up, what do you think Congress can do at this point? There is a lot of criticism, of course, of Congress members and senators, of what Trump is doing with Iran right now, dropping these bunker buster bombs, for example, today. But what actually can they do?
- [49:51]
Josh Paul
So what they can do, of course, is much more than what they will do. What they can do is, of course, exercise their oversight. At some point in the coming weeks, there is going to be a very important vote when the administration comes forward with a funding request for the Iran war. If members of Congress mean what they say about not wanting to support this war and not believing we should be part of part of it, they should vote against that funding. So I think there are a number of steps Congress can take. There are also, I should note, emergency arms sales that the administration has put through in the last couple of weeks for Israel, some of which are coming out of US Stockpiles. Again, if members of Congress are serious about protecting US Military global leadership, then they should be voting against those sales that are coming out of critically needed US Stocks. So there are a number of things Congress can do. I think the question remains to be seen of whether they will do those things.
- [50:43]
Amy Goodman
Josh Paul, veteran State Department official, resigned in 2023 to protest the push to increase arms sales to Israel amidst its assault on Gaza. Now director at a new policy lobbying group he co founded with a fellow resignee to press for a change in US Policy on Palestine Israel. Coming up, we look at the Trump administration's escalating attacks on the press as President Trump threatens to charge journalists news outlets with treason. Treason is punishable by death. Stay with us,
- [51:30]
Sebastian Zoatski
Sam.
- [52:13]
Amy Goodman
What still remains. By Sebastian Zoatski, this is Democracy now. Democracynow.org I'm Amy Goodman. The Trump administration's escalating for threats against media outlets. In a post Sunday, President Trump said news organizations should face treason charges for disseminating false information. FCC Chair Brendan Carr has also threatened to revoke broadcasters licenses over their coverage of the U. S Israeli war in Iran. Carr wrote online, quote, broadcasters that are running hoaxes and news distortions, also known as the fake news news, have a chance now to correct course before their license renewals come up, unquote. Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut blasted cars saying this is the federal government telling news stations to provide favorable coverage of the war or their licenses will be pulled. A truly extraordinary moment. We aren't on the verge of a totalitarian takeover. We're in the middle of it. Senator Murphy, he said this all comes as allies of President Trump consolidate their control over several major media outlets. Paramount, Skydance, poised to acquire Warner Bros. Discovery, which includes CNN and hbo. Paramount CEO is David Ellison, the son of Larry Ellison, a close Trump ally. Last week, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth made this comment comment about CNN or more
- [53:45]
Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth
fake news from CNN reports that the Trump administration underestimated the Iran war's impact on the Strait of Hormuz. Patently ridiculous, of course. For decades Iran has threatened shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. This is always what they hold the strait hostage. CNN doesn't think we thought of that. It's a fundamental unserious report. The sooner David Ellison takes over that network, the better.
- [54:15]
Amy Goodman
At the Oscars Sunday, late night host Jimmy Kimmel made this remark about cbs, which is now owned by Paramount.
- [54:24]
Joe Kent
We hear a lot about courage at shows like this, but telling a story that could get you killed for telling it is real courage. As you know, there are some countries whose leaders don't support free speech. I'm not at liberty to say which. Let's just leave it at North Korea and cbs.
- [54:43]
Amy Goodman
We're joined now by Craig Aaron, co CEO of Free Press and Free Press Action, not to be confused with Barry Weiss's the Free Press, which is now owned by Paramount and she's head of CBS News. His news article, his news article is headlined warmongers come for the media. Craig, talk about the significance of this moment. Senator Murphy says this. We're not on the precipice or the edge of totalitarianism. We're in the midst of it.
- [55:14]
Craig Aaron
Thank you, Amy. Yeah, this is a very clear abuse of power. The idea that the chairman of the FCC would be, you know, threatening broadcasters with losing licenses for not echoing Trump administration propaganda. The idea that the, the Defense secretary is out there cheering on a mega merger so that Trump cronies can be put in charge of the media to get more favorable coverage. This, we really haven't seen anything like this in recent memory and it has been going on throughout the Trump Administration just a complete abuse of power by FCC Chairman Carr performing really for an audience of one that is Donald Trump, Trump jumping on his every utterance to saber rattle, to threaten broadcasters. And really the threat is the point. They want these companies to be afraid. They want them to change and they are sadly too often willing to do it in order to push through mergers, in order to get special favors, in order to guarantee their other divisions big fat government contracts. They've shown a willingness from CBS on D down to warp and alter coverage to make it more favorable to the Trump administration. And as we've seen, whether it's lawyers, universities, media companies, when the bullying works, you just get more and more bullying.
- [56:37]
Amy Goodman
CRAIG AARON he's talking about threatening news organizations with treason. Presumably this also means the journalists within them. It's extremely serious because if you are convicted of treason, you face death. You have, for example hegseth responding to journalists covering the death of the service members in the U. S Israeli attack on Iran saying that this is unfair to cover this. You have when a reporter asked President Trump on Air Force One to talk about the the deaths, for example of the six servicemembers, he goes next. He doesn't want to answer this question.
- [57:21]
Craig Aaron
CRAIG yeah, this is really unbelievable. You're talking about basic coverage of the most important and serious issues and you have an administration that wants to hide and warp coverage of their own incompetence, of their own failings, of their own crimes like these that you covered earlier in the program and the deaths of hundreds of schoolchildren. They don't want the US Media covering this story and they are showing that they are willing to threaten the use of regulations, of government policy, of changing owners in order to push those media companies into silence in order to have journalists question what stories are they going to cover. Wonder if their bosses are going to back them up when they do serious reporting on the crimes of this administration, whether that's kidnapping people and sending them to other countries, whether that's launching a war. The most serious stories that we need, the newsrooms with the biggest resources covering the Trump administration is signaling you better think twice. And unfortunately the billionaire owners of these companies are signaling back. If you'll give us favors, if you'll give us mergers, we're willing to do your bidding. This works because have backed off and they're going to keep doing it until these media companies start standing up.
- [58:48]
Amy Goodman
CRAIG Aaron CO CEO of Free Press and Free Press Action we'll link to your new article Warmongers Come for the Media. We'll be livestreaming our 30th anniversary event at democracynow.org next March, next Monday. I'm Amy Goodman. Thanks for joining us.