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- [00:16]
Amy Goodman
From Edinburgh, Scotland and New York, this is democracy now.
- [00:23]
Keith Lamar
This is the second time this has happened that I received a reprieve from the governor, which means this is my third execution day. And so in his office, dioxy. But of course, you know, having more time means I could perform a more concerted fight. Even with your best efforts, you still, you know, you know, hoping for some kind of divine intervention, you know.
- [00:50]
Amy Goodman
Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine has granted reprieve to Keith Lamar and two other prisoners on death row. Lamar was scheduled to be killed and January, but his execution has now been pushed back until January 2030, giving him and his supporters more time to fight for his freedom. He'll join us live from Ohio's death row. Then as we broadcast from Edinburgh, Scotland, we'll be joined by the world renowned violinist Nicola Benedetti. She's the first Scot and first female to head the Edinburgh International Festival. And we'll be joined by the prize winning Brazilian actor and filmmaker Wagner Mura. He was nominated for an Oscar for his performance in the Secret Agent here in Edinburgh. He starring in the play A Trial After An Enemy of the People. All that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. I'm Amy Goodman, Edinburgh, Scotland. Now with headlines in New York, Nermeen Shaikh.
- [02:37]
Nermeen Shaikh
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu rejected President Trump's 15 point Gaza peace plan in a public split with the US Leader. The proposal requires Hamas to disarm fully before Israel withdraws and Palestinians gain independence. But Netanyahu demanded complete disarmament up front before any phased implementation begins. Here's Netanyahu on Sunday.
- [03:01]
Amy Goodman
As long as I am prime minister,
- [03:02]
Nermeen Shaikh
a Palestinian state will not be established.
- [03:05]
Keith Lamar
Not in Gaza and not in Judea and Samaria.
- [03:08]
Animated Documentary Narrator (possibly Keith Lamar or a related voice)
Not a Fatastan, not a Hamastan.
- [03:12]
Nermeen Shaikh
Palestinians in Gaza responded to Netanyahu's rejection of Trump's 15 point peace plan.
- [03:20]
Wagner Moura
We wish for the war to end and to live in peace, as they say. Prime Minister Netanyahu agrees with peace. And all this stuff, all of this is a lie. Netanyahu's response was expected. Used to this issue that he always rejects. He doesn't care about peace. He doesn't care about the people. He doesn't care about anything. The most important thing is that he wins elections.
- [03:41]
Nermeen Shaikh
A New York Times investigation into how the participants of the Global Samud flotilla were treated in Israeli detention details beatings, electric shocks and other abuse. Six activists produce medical records documenting serious harm. Fractured ribs, broken vertebrae, a shattered tailbone, a gunshot wound and a collapsed lung. Four said Israeli forces shot them with rubber bullets or beanbag rounds while they were detained on a ship. Three reported being shocked with Tasers while beaten inside shipping containers. Back in May, Israel apprehended more than 400 activists on the global Samud flotilla at gunpoint on the Mediterranean as they attempted to break the Israeli blockade on Gaza. Iran says it's close to a final pact with Oman to define new shipping lanes through the Strait of Hormuz. But Tehran insists the US Must act first by paying compensation, lifting sanctions and halting military threats. According to the Iranian Foreign Minister Abbas Arakchi, the US And Iran are not engaged in direct talks and will not restart them as long as Washington continues to breach the interim deal. This is Iran's president, Massoud Possesskian.
- [04:55]
Keegan Steffen
Instead of sitting down to resolve them, then we need to see how to resolve them now. If a solution is possible, which is currently being worked on in the Oman negotiations, God willing, we will reach a point where we can get out of this state of neither war nor peace.
- [05:11]
Nermeen Shaikh
Yemen's Iran backed Houthis attacked a Saudi Aramco refinery on Sunday, two days after Saudi Arabia forged a defense pact with Turkey and Pakistan. The alliance pledges mutual defense, which means an armed attack on any one member counts as an attack on all. But after Sunday's attack, it was not immediately clear whether Turkey or Pakistan would respond. The Houthis also attacked the Yemeni Red Sea port city of Mocha, close to the strategic Bab El Mandeb Strait, killing at least seven people. Last month, Houthi leaders declared a naval blockade against Saudi Arabia, claiming a Saudi siege on the militia group in Russia. A Ukrainian drone attack has killed at least 13 people, including one child this morning. It's one of the deadliest attacks on Russia since the start of Moscow's full scale invasion of Ukraine in 2022. This comes as Russia and Ukraine traded attacks. On Sunday, a Russian strike hit an apartment block in Khalif, kyiv, Ukraine, killing three people and wounding 37. Meanwhile, in Belgorod, Russia, a Ukrainian drone attack killed five people and wounded 25. Here in the U.S. president Trump's former personal lawyer Todd Blanche was confirmed as Attorney General Saturday morning by a narrow 50 to 49 vote in the Senate. Republican Senator Bill Cassidy of Louisiana cast the deciding vote to confirm Blanche. Republican Senators Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski voted Blanche's nomination. Some Republican senators had questioned Blanche's mismanagement of the release of the Epstein files and his role in creating President Trump's $1.8 billion so called anti weaponization fund. Blanche eventually walked back the fund after two Republican senators threatened to withhold their votes. A federal appeals court ruled Friday that Trump cannot build a ballroom to replace the White House East Wing without congressional approval. The court confirmed the lower court's ruling that the president has legal authority to tear down and rebuild White House sections without Congress's approval. President Trump vowed to appeal the ruling, writing on Truth Social quote it is all tied together as one big, expensive and very complex unit which is vital for national security and military operations of the United States of America. This unjust decision must be overturned by the Supreme Court in its entirety, trump wrote. In Colombia, right wing President Abe Lardo de la Esprila was born in Friday. King Felipe VI of Spain, US Attorney General Todd Blanche, FIFA President Gianni Infantino and right wing Latin American presidents including Argentina's Javier Malay, Ecuador's Daniel Naboa and Chile's Jose Antonio Cast were in attendance. This is Abelardo de la Esprilla speaking from the city of Cali, where he vowed to crack down on armed groups and abandon peace efforts.
- [08:15]
Keith Lamar
There will not be a single place in our territory where criminals can feel safe.
- [08:20]
Wagner Moura
I make my own words of Winston Churchill, victory at all costs.
- [08:24]
Keith Lamar
Victory in spite of terror.
- [08:26]
Wagner Moura
Victory however long and hard the road may be, because without victory there is no survival.
- [08:32]
Nermeen Shaikh
Temporary Protected status TPS for thousands of immigrants from South Sudan and Burma is set to end after two federal judges sided with the Trump administration's efforts to terminate. The move will impact over 200 South Sudanese nationals and an estimated 4,000 immigrants from Burma who will now face deportation. This comes after a U.S. supreme Court ruling ended TPS for immigrants from Haiti and Syria. In related news, the Trump administration has detained dozens of parents and spouses of active duty US Military personnel in its immigration crackdown. That's according to an investigation by the Associated Press, which found more than 50 parents and spouses of US servicemembers have been arrested since Trump returned to office. At least six have been deported. This comes as the nation's two largest private prison companies, Core Civic and Geo Group, reported a combined $1.4 billion in quarterly revenue between April and June as immigrant detention skyrockets under Trump's second term. A record 51,000 immigrants were arrested in July alone. In Texas, rallies continue this weekend to mark one month since the July 7th ice killing of 52 year old Mexican father Lorenzo Salgado Araujo in Houston. The agents involved have not been identified as his family and supporters demand for justice in South Africa. More than 178,000 African immigrants have been forced to flee and return home in recent months amid growing violence and harassment. That includes an estimated 115,000 people who've returned to Zimbabwe since May. Advocacy groups report thousands of children have been removed from schools and HIV patients pulled from life saving treatment in South Africa. Wildfires continue to burn across the western US And Canada as firefighting crews struggle to contain the devastating blazes. Some 20,000 people in British Columbia were ordered to evacuate on Saturday as the massive bold range wildfire nearly doubled in size overnight near the regions of Summerland and Peachland. British Columbia's premier said the fire was, quote, like a bomb going off. There are more than 100 active fires in the region setting off a state of emergency. Scientists warn worsening heat waves and drought due to climate change has led to more frequent and intense fires worldwide. And in Japan, bells rang in Nagasaki Sunday as The city commemorated 81 years since the US dropped the atomic bomb. The attack on August 9, 1945 killed 74,000 people just three days after the US dropped the first nuclear weapon ever used in war on the city of Hiroshima, killing 140,000 people. This is the mayor of Nagasaki.
- [11:32]
Wagner Moura
The atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki forced us to confront the reality that humanity had crossed even in the line of using nuclear weapons against human beings. The theory of nuclear deterrence is extremely risky. Nuclear weapons are not a necessary evil, but an absolute evil. And humanity and nuclear weapons can never coexist.
- [11:59]
Nermeen Shaikh
The anniversary came as the government of Japan's ultra conservative Prime Minister Sanae Takeichi has shifted defense policies to bolster militarization. Take Ichi been widely ambiguous about her long term commitment to maintain Japan's three non nuclear principles endorsed over 50 years ago. And those are some of the headlines. This is democracy now. Democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. When we come back, we'll speak to death row prisoner Keith lamar. Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine has just granted him and two other prisoners a reprieve of execution.
- [12:41]
Keith Lamar
You know, whenever I think about all the struggles and strife I've been through in my life, it's truly hard to comprehend. I mean, I'm sitting inside a cage on death row. Yo. So far away from home, so far away from everything I know. Might as well be sitting inside the hold of a spaceship. That's what it feels like to be here. Yet it's hard sometimes to see how what I'm going through is connected to what my ancestors suffered and survived. Truth be told, I'm lucky to be alive. Real Talk Sometimes when things get too heavy to carry, I close my eyes and drift back to it was a time when everything was all good. A time when it was fully understood that being here on this earth was the biggest blessing. My grandfather taught me that. See, I grew up in a neighborhood called the Village, a small enclave on the east side of Cleveland. Beautiful place, yo, with fruit trees and sweet things on every corner. No lie. I was surrounded by my family and friends. I'm telling you, there was no end to the love we shared. A real community planned by people whose only plan was to live and give everything they had. They gave it all. Children of slaves who braved the worst of it so we, the children and grandchildren could make the most of tell them the truth.
- [14:29]
Amy Goodman
Spoken Words by Keith Lamar Music by Albert Marquez this is democracy now, democracynow.org, the war and Peace Report. I am Amy Goodman in Edinburgh, Scotland with Nermeen Shaikh in New York.
- [14:46]
Nermeen Shaikh
On Friday, Ohio Governor Mike DeWine issued reprieves for three men on death row, citing the difficulty of procuring lethal injection drugs from pharmaceutical suppliers. The execution dates of the three men were pushed back to 2030. This comes after Governor DeWine, who is a Republican, announced in June that he no longer believes in the efficacy of the death penalty as a deterrent.
- [15:11]
Mike DeWine
It is today impossible to make the case that the death penalty is a deterrent. I no longer believe the death penalty is a deterrent to murder. The moral justification I had for voting for the death penalty simply no longer exists. For the state to take a human life, there must my opinion, there must be evidence that in doing so it will help protect the public, that the threat of that action will deter someone from committing murder. For the reasons stated above, I do not believe that argument today can be successfully made, nor do I believe that there's any chance in the future the facts that I have cited to support that belief will change. Therefore, I believe Ohio should abolish the death penalty.
- [16:09]
Amy Goodman
One of the men on Ohio's death row who received the reprieve from Governor DeWine is Keith Lamar. The new day gives Lamar, his attorneys and supporters more time to fight for his freedom. Lamar was sentenced to death for the murder of five fellow prisoners during the 1993 Lucasville Prison uprising. He and his attorneys say he's innocent and was wrongfully convicted. His trial was held in a remote Ohio community before an all white jury. He's now spent over 30 years in solitary confinement.
- [16:51]
Nermeen Shaikh
This is an excerpt from the animated short film the Injustice of Justice, narrated by Keith Lamar and illustrated by Molly Crabapple, which won the grand prize for the best animated short film at the 2025 Golden State Film Festival.
- [17:09]
Animated Documentary Narrator (possibly Keith Lamar or a related voice)
I was on the recreation yard when it all began. A guard came running out of the building with blood streaming down his, followed by a masked prisoner who was carrying a weapon and yelling, we taken over. Against my better judgment, I went inside to check on my personal belongings. A fatal mistake. It was complete chaos. When I made it to my assigned location, I discovered that it was being used as a holding area for hostages, both guards and prisoners. I was thereafter approached by a masked prisoner who gave me the option to either participate or leave. I chose to leave. Hundreds of us gathered on the yard, waiting as the National Guard and Highway patrol took up watch outside the perimeter fence. Because I had gone into the hostage area without wearing a mask, my name would be mentioned among a vast array of potential suspects. Even though the state concedes that I was never affiliated with any of the gangs said to have presided over the riot, the fact that I was already serving time for murder would play a big part in their decision to indict me. Ultimately, I was charged with nine counts of aggravated murder. I couldn't believe it.
- [18:29]
Amy Goodman
That was an excerpt from the animated documentary the justice of Injustice, narrated by Keith Lamar, illustrated by Molly Crabapple. For more on the news of the reprieve and the latest on Keith Lamar's case, we're joined by three guests. Keegan Steffen is a civil rights lawyer with Beldach, Levine and Hoffman. He's representing Keith Lamarr. Joining us in New York, Amy Gordigew is campaign manager for justice for Keith Lamar. She's with us from Cleveland, Ohio. And on the phone from Ohio's death row is Keith Lamar. Keith, we're going to begin with you. I don't know whether to say congratulations or recognizing that this means still have an execution on the horizon, but the significance of the Republican Ohio Governor Mike DeWine putting off giving you a reprieve on this execution for three years. Can you talk about your response and how you learned that you would not be killed by the state next year?
- [19:43]
Keith Lamar
Well, first of all, I think. Well, thanks so much, Amy, for the opportunity, obviously to elevate the profile of my case. I think congratulations is in order because aside from me receiving a reprieve, which I was very relieved, though we anticipated that he would do stick to his pattern, I'm still relieved that I don't have that hanging over my Head. But in the meantime, I've been undergoing a consistent torture since the last reprieve. Guards have been spraying chemicals in and around my cell. Haven't been able to eat breakfast or lunch over three years because of the chemicals that are being sprayed in my food. I'm being harassed constantly. And so, you know, not the death penalty. You know, the execution is one thing to worry about. But I've also, you know, been caught up in this thing called the push off, where guards try to push you off the planet, try to get you to kill yourself. And one of my friends two months ago committed suicide because of the same treatment that I've been undergoing for the past three years. But, yeah, getting into my legal case, you know, I've been working very hard with, you know, a formidable team of attorneys who are right now uncovering evidence that has been withheld for the past, you know, three decades. And so it's been really, really, you know, difficult over the past several months because, you know, with the execution looming, we didn't. We would have it conspir. Concerned about filing under that. Under the impression that we were trying to execute some kind of ploy. And, you know, with that now being removed, we don't have. We're not operating under that type of pressure and that suspicion. So, you know, hopefully the courts will take the motion that we're about to file more seriously because of the reprieve. But I'm thankful, grateful for the time that I've been given because that gives my attorneys more time to develop my claims. Yeah.
- [21:39]
Nermeen Shaikh
So, Keith, you know, we're very, very sorry to hear about this absolutely atrocious treatment that you have been receiving. I mean, if you could talk a little bit more about, you know, is there any recourse? What kind of response do you get when you point out what's happening?
- [22:00]
Keith Lamar
Well, about four or five years ago, they passed a rule that all guards have to wear cameras, body cameras, similar police officers on the street. And ironically, the result of them having cameras has allowed them to do more mistreatment, more harassment, because if it's not on the camera, it didn't exist. It didn't happen. So I followed over 50 complaints with administration here, and they checked the camera. They don't see anything. They claim not to see anything. And because they didn't see anything, it doesn't exist. Meanwhile, you know, my health has, you know, has depreciated. I'm in constant jeopardy. Like I said, I'm losing weight. You know, I'm right now, I'm sitting in A plume of fumes as I'm speaking to you on the phone. But I have to sit at the front of a cell because that's where the signal is strongest. But I'm right now in a cloud, you know, of a bewilderment as I'm trying to communicate to people, you know, the specific details of my case. And this is what I've been operating on under, for the past three, three years since the first reprieve. So while the reprieve is, you know, particularly important, it also means more suffering, you know, and, you know, I'm trying to be available for these interviews, for these opportunities to speak out my truth, but, you know, they're making it, they're not making it easy, you know, and I suspect that the harassment is being done with the approval or at the behest of the administration because it's blatant. They're doing it with impunity, you know what I mean? With no concern or risk of losing their job, you know, and I'm pretty much laughed at on a routine basis whenever I bring it to the administration. It's to the point now it doesn't even make sense to form to file complaints, you know, because all my complaints have fallen on benefit. Right now as I'm speaking to you, my lips are stinging. Yeah, I'm sorry. Go ahead,
- [23:59]
Amy Goodman
Keith. Lamar, Mike DeWine, the Republican governor has come out against the death penalty. Can you explain why? Then he is granted a reprieve as opposed to commuting your sentence, your supporters, you are calling for your freedom. But if you can explain how this works, he just says he can't get the execution drugs to kill you. What are you calling for right now?
- [24:26]
Amy Gordiev
Yeah,
- [24:28]
Keith Lamar
well, Mike DeWine, at the end of the day as a politician, as he himself stated, he was one of the architects who put in place the execution policy here in Ohio. You know, he's about to retire. I think he's well into his 80s now, and so he's thinking about his legacy, you know, but he's at the end of the day as a politician and he's doing the political thing and passing the buck basically for the next person who comes in line, which if it's a Republican, you know, you can expect the death penalty to be the deaths to resume here in Ohio. You know, Mike DeWine asked the voters to vote to abolish the death penalty, but you're asking poor white people, the same people who voted for Trump overwhelmingly here in Ohio, something that they have some type of psychic need for, you know, you know, it's like, you know, I'm in here and they want to see you suffer, you know what I mean? And that. The whole thing. And so they also heard the news that I haven't got a repeat reprieve. It spread around the prison immediately. And even on that day, you know, it's just the attacks are immediate, you know. You know, I know I sound a little hysterical, but I'm, you know, making this call under duress. I'm living under extreme strain. And the reprieve, while good on a legal sense so you can give us more time, it also increases the pressure, the harassment that I'm undergoing.
- [25:51]
Nermeen Shaikh
Keith, Lamar, again, we're so sorry to hear about this distressing treatment and the conditions under which you're living there. I wanted to ask you about comments you've made about the disproportionate number of convictions and executions in. In Hamilton county and whether you think those have changed at all in the duration in which you've been imprisoned and what the reasons are that you've said. All white juries, jailhouse informants, et cetera. If you could just elaborate.
- [26:27]
Keith Lamar
Yeah. When the riot happened, they were looking for prosecutors to prosecute the crimes, and they picked Hamilton county because of Hammer County's dubious distinction of receiving these death. Death penalty cases. I think they were only second to Texas at the time. And Mark Piedmont, from early 1990s up until now, used the same MO of using jailhouse informants, withholding exculpatory evidence. I mean, this is their M.O. this is the DNA, the culture of this particular. This particular prosecuting office. And here in the early 2000s, a lot of those cases that was prosecuted 10, 20 years ago are coming back, you know, with. With, you know, because of the misconduct are being overturned. And the same thing he did in more, all these multiple cases that are now being overturned, he did to me. He withheld the scorpatory evidence. He coached witnesses. I've only seen, based on the estimation of my attorneys, 30% of the evidence that was collected. And they're talking about killing me. And so, you know, this. This prosecutor, prosecutor's office was handpicked. My case was, you know, you know, shoved into this all white County, Ironton, Ohio, where all white ju was all but certain. And they convicted me with absolutely no evidence at all.
- [27:50]
Nermeen Shaikh
Well, Keith, I'd like to bring in your attorney, Keegan Steffen, who's here with us in the New York studio. Keegan, if you could talk about what this reprieve means and how it came about now, what does it actually mean for what might happen to Keith?
- [28:10]
Keegan Steffen
Sure. I mean, the most important thing by far is that this reprieve means that Keith Lamar, who is one of the most brilliant and loving humans I've ever met in prison or outside, will not be executed for another three years. That is so meaningful to him and so many people who he loves and takes care of and educates on a day to day basis for his legal case. That means that we have another three years to litigate his innocence, which is absolutely critical. As Keith said, we were coming up to a deadline when we would have needed to file to make sure that this case wouldn't have just been tossed at some juncture as being a last ditch effort. And it's not a last ditch effort. We've been investigating now for over three years. We've uncovered, uncovered incredible new evidence, very powerful evidence of his innocence. I've spoken to eyewitnesses, uncovered additional materials in the record that have me believing that he is absolutely innocent. There's no question in my mind. So we are now in the process of putting all of that into a motion for leave and a motion to vacate his conviction. And we will be filing very soon. We will then have all of this time to litigate it, to get courts to decide on it, and hopefully by the time three years rolls around, he will be exonerated and a free man.
- [29:14]
Nermeen Shaikh
Man.
- [29:17]
Amy Goodman
And finally, Amy Gordiev, what are your leader, campaign manager for justice for Keith Lamar, what are you and the supporters of Keith calling for now? How are you organizing?
- [29:33]
Amy Gordiev
Well, we are facing the departure of our governor, Governor Mike DeWine, in January. And right now we're in an unusual moment of his political history where he has the power to do something extraordinary and that is to pardon Keith. We're asking and calling on as many of your viewers and anyone they can share it with to sign the petition to Governor DeWine asking him to look into this case and do the right thing, do the moral thing. He spoke of his morality and, and his beliefs. And we want him to take it one step further. And that petition can be found@keithlamar.org petition we ask people to follow us on our social media. It's all one word, usticeforkeithlamar. And we really need to make our choir sing loudly now and show the government what the collective cry is of people who are feeling and caring and who have come to this conclusion with us. And as Keegan just mentioned, that evidence will soon be made public and available and it's unquestionable at that point. Anybody who's a thinker will see right away that Keith was framed. And it's not just his word. It's all right there for anyone to see. So we just ask everyone, everyone who can help us spread the word because that in our current society seems to be, you know, the squeaky wheel gets a grease, as they say. And the more support we have, I think the more compelling our cry will be when we take our petition to him in November.
- [31:24]
Amy Goodman
I want to give Keith the last word. Keith from Ohio's death row, your final comment. Comment to the world right now.
- [31:35]
Keith Lamar
I mean, you know, one of the things that, I mean, I was listening to the run up to my segment about what's going on in Israel, what's going on all over the world. And, you know, I'm in Bowen always watching your show, Amy, that people are speaking up, standing out. And Audre Lorde once said that your silence would not protect you. And, you know, that's the thing that I want to send out to anybody who might be listening this, who might be going through any oppression or any type of evil or whatever it might be, be that speak out who you are and you will find or discover that you are not alone. And that's been one of the, you know, the big, you know, blessings in my life, you know, you know, you know, and I'm unfortunate, you know, you know, I would, you know, want to thank all the people who support me, but there's too many people to thank, you know, but here we live in a capitalistic country and Frederick Douglass said, you might not always get what you pay for, but you're going to pay for what you get. And so all the people who have been, you know, funding my campaign, funding my legal fund, you know, I mean, I really, really want to thank you. It has made all the difference, you know, all the difference in the world. And I just want to thank you and your team, Amy, for once again helping me highlight my case. I mean, it really really is invaluable what you all are doing for me. And I'm really, really grateful. Really, really grateful. Thanks so much.
- [32:48]
Amy Goodman
Well, Keith, we are going to. Keith, we're going to continue to cover your case. Keith Lamar has been granted a reprieve by the Ohio Governor Mike DeWine for three years, a reprieve from execution. His supporters, like our guest Amy Gordiev, campaign manager for justice for Keith Lamar, and attorney Keegan Stefan, are now organizing to call for the stopping of his execution. Coming up, we are broadcasting from Edinburgh, Scotland. We'll be joined by the world renowned violinist Nicola Benedetti, the first Scott Scott and first female to head the Edinburgh International Festival. We'll then be joined by Wagner Moura. Stay with us. World renowned violinist Nicola Benedetti performing here at the Edinburgh International Festival. This is democracy now. Democracynow.org we are broadcasting from Panmore House, the former home of Adam Smith, here in Edinburgh, Scotland where the Edinburgh International Festival is taking place, one of Europe's biggest arts festivals. We're joined now by the Grammy winning Scottish violinist Nicola Benedetti, one of the most celebrated classical violinists in the world. In 2022, she became the first woman and first Scottish artist to become festival director at the Edinburgh International Festival Festival. She's also one of the youngest directors of the festival, which began soon after World War II in 1947. It's great to have you with us. It's odd for me to welcome you to your city, Nicola, but if you can tell the world what this festival is all about, how it came into being and what you're trying to do, you are transforming this festival. In the last four years you have headed it. One of the youngest directors of ever.
- [36:39]
Nicola Benedetti
If I may first just say what an absolute honour it is for me to be here. I've been watching your show for more years than I care to remember and I'm just such an admirer of you, Amy, and of everything that this incredible show does. So thank you for being here with us in Edinburgh and for having me on. Our festival has a very unusual mix of its origins. Of course. It was undoubtedly a festival of the arts from all over the world with an international stamp on its founding, but also cross arts. So we in equal measures present theatre,
- [37:18]
Amy Goodman
dance, opera and the reason this came out of World War II.
- [37:23]
Nicola Benedetti
And you know, I think what is quite unusual about the Edinburgh International Festival is the humanitarian mission that is woven into all of its origin rhetoric. So yes, it was a festival of the arts, but also one that allowed for Jewish individuals and ex Nazi individuals to be on stage, to be making art and music together that took place in this city. And if you look at all of the original speaking about its purpose and its gift, not only to Scotland, but as a beacon of hope, what is possible and what the language of the arts can bring to people. So much of that was about reconciliation, about seeing each other more truthfully about human relation, about international relation, about the flowering of the human spirit and the opening of our hearts. And I think we know, and I know we're aligned on this is that the language of the arts, but of somehow slightly more abstract presentation can, can, can hit the emotion and the feeling first. And once that is open, then an argument or a perspective or a point of view can be altered and changed, hopefully for the better.
- [38:43]
Amy Goodman
And can you talk about the themes this year? I mean the political climate we face. You go back and forth between the United States and here in Scotland. And as you see this road to authoritarianism in the United States States, if you can talk about, well, the history, many Americans may not know the ties. Since you are focusing on the 250th anniversary of the US leaving Great Britain.
- [39:15]
Nicola Benedetti
So that is very much the theme of this year's festival. We have named it All Rise, but it was a convergence of circumstance, both artistic and more, I guess, guess our overall rallying cry that we're trying to with the themed festivals year on year. We're trying to encourage our artists and participants and audiences alike stand with us in our acknowledgment that the art is an integral pillar in that conversation. It's an integral pillar in being able to heighten people's relation with one another. We have seen the largest number ever in our festival's history, a 79 year history of American artists on our stage this year.
- [40:02]
Amy Goodman
But I mean, Saturday night at Usher hall was astounding. Describe what happened. You introduced it. I mean, there were what, more than 300 musicians on stage. The Scottish Symphony Chorus and Jazz at Lincoln Center.
- [40:20]
Nicola Benedetti
Jazz Lincoln center. And Jason Max Ferdinand Singers, whom I've actually just left one of our other venues. They're doing, doing an uplifting, moving recital for us this morning that was just absolutely outstanding. All Rise, a piece written by Wynton Marsalis, I think really has set the stage for how the rest of the festival unfolds. It's not only a tale of the human cycles of life, so that being birth, death, tragedy, adversity and the sort of rising in the face of adversity, but it's also a piece that draws upon the entire collection of the music of the Americas and what the American identity really is and represents. And that's something that we have tried so hard as a, as a programming team and team of curators to unfold throughout the festival. We are not presenting either a celebration or a scrutinizing. We're not celebrating only dark or dazzling. We're trying to present these things, things alongside each other who suffered as a consequence of some of the most innovative, outstanding achievements of the United States in the last 250 years.
- [41:26]
Amy Goodman
Tomorrow, Bryan Stevenson will join us here. He has a legacy museum. He founded it in Montgomery, Alabama where Democracy now has been. You have for the first time he's internationalized it with the Legacy of Slavery exhibition here. And as you sat here listening to Keith Lamar, you wept. Can you talk about why you have brought this exhibit here?
- [41:52]
Nicola Benedetti
I am so honored that Brian agreed to do that. I think that the United States story is not only incomplete but the integral nature of that aspect of the history is one that we couldn't. I could not in my right mind trying to present and defend broad story of Americanness without that being thoroughly and seriously told. And there are no better, you know, words and depictions than that of Bryan Stevenson, someone who has fought his entire life on this subject.
- [42:32]
Amy Goodman
And if you could talk. Finally, we're going to have Wagner Moran in one minute. And he has brought his play to the Edinburgh International Festival. A man who lives in Los Angeles, but of course is Brazilian Oscar nominated for Secret Agent as he will talk about authoritarianism in Brazil. As we look at what's happening in the United States, your thought about what the Edinburgh International Festival can accomplish in in celebrating democracy if you look at
- [43:13]
Nicola Benedetti
the convergence of simply the things you've talked about. So we are here now in Adam Smith's home who not only wrote the wealth of nations but the Theory of Moral Sentiment which was about these concentric circles bringing together humanity around the world. The content of Wagner Mora's phenomenal performance the other night and through this festival with A Trial and After An Enemy of the People written by Christian Jatahi is a story of injustice, of that indignation against wrongs, against wrongdoings. And you know, I think our event too is really trying to bring to the fore the notion that when you mix dialogue with the profundity of art's presentations and pull these things together, we have the potential to not only change that mind but continually to reflect more on the origin story of this festival. It was intended to make the world a better place and all we can do is bring that into being over and over and over again.
- [44:19]
Amy Goodman
Nicola Benedetti, we thank you so much for being with us. Award winning Scottish violinist, founder of the Benedetti foundation and and the festival director of the Edinburgh International Festival. Coming up we will be joined by the prize winning Brazilian actor and filmmaker Wagner Moura, nominated for an Oscar for his performance in the Secret Agent here in Edinburgh. He's starring in the play A Trial After An Enemy of the People. But first let's Hear more music from Nicola Benedetti. Nicola Benedetti performing Wynton Marsalis Violin Concerto in Myerson Symphony center in Dallas, Texas in 2018. This is Democracy Now. Democracynow.org I'm Amy Goodman in Edinburgh, Scotland with Nermeen Shaikh in New York.
- [47:09]
Nermeen Shaikh
We end today's show with the acclaimed Brazilian actor and filmmaker Wagner Mora at the Edinburgh International Festival. He's starting in a sequel, starring in a sequel to a play by Henrik Ibsen titled A Trial after An Enemy of the People. In Ibsen's groundbreaking 1882 play, An Enemy of the People, protagonist Thomas Stockman faces shame and exile after attempting to expose a water pollution scandal in his hometown. In the sequel, director Cristiane Jattal throws Stockman into a modern day public courtroom in Brazil and it's up to a jury of audience members to decide if he is innocent or whether he is indeed an enemy of the people. Wagner Mora plays Thomas Stockman in the Sequel. His Oscar nominated performance in the film the Secret Agent, set during the Brazilian dictatorship, won him a Golden Globe as well as the 2025 Cannes Film Festival award for best Actor. Wagner Mora is also widely known for his role as the Colombian drug lord Pab Escobar in the Netflix series Narcos.
- [48:16]
Amy Goodman
We're joined right now in Edinburgh by Wagner Moura. Welcome back to Democracy Now. It's great to have you with us. You're a lot thinner than you were as Pablo Escobar. But last night, your performance, Wagner, in A Trial after the Enemy of the People, the takeoff on Ibsen's play. If you can explain this play, it is prevalent in so much of your work that you've starred in, that you've directed. Explain what this was all about. You took the breath away of the, what, 600 people at the Lyceum.
- [48:59]
Wagner Moura
Yeah. Amy, I was so happy to see you there yesterday. I'm such a fan. Everybody was like, Amy's here. It was such a electrifying moment on the backstage. This play is like I, I always wanted to, to stage this play, Ibsen's play, but then I started talking with Christiane Jatay, who's the director of the play, and she didn't want to do the play the way the play was. She wants, she was more interested in the aftermath of those characters, what was going to happen to, especially to Thomas Stockman after he was declared.
- [49:33]
Amy Goodman
And for people who aren't familiar, especially young people, the theme of Ibsen's play,
- [49:38]
Wagner Moura
An Enemy of the People was a play written by Norwegian writer Henrik Ibsen back in the 19th century. And it's about a doctor of this spa resort. And this doctor discovers that a place that everybody lives from this spa resort, this spa resort is the most important resource of the city. But then he discovers his doctor discovered that the water of the spa resort is contaminated and harmful to people's health. So he reports that to the mayor of the town, who is your brother. And the mayor decides that he's going to hide the information from everybody else because he's afraid that the tourists won't bring the money that they bring to the city every summer if they know that the water is contaminated. So this is the dilemma of the play. Should is. And because Thomas insists his moral imperative is like, I have to tell the truth. And he suffers lots of consequences for doing that. And then we bring. So in our production, we bring the audience to the stage every day, and together we decide whether Thomas Stockman, in Today's perspective, in 2026, whether Thomas Stockman is or is not an enemy of the people.
- [50:52]
Amy Goodman
An enemy of the people. And I think of Bolsonaro, who is currently in prison, the former president of your country, Brazil, and the parallels in dealing with COVID 19, what you should tell the people. And you bring up Covid in this new version of the play. But your observations as you were born halfway through the dictatorship in Brazil. You were born, what, in 1976.
- [51:20]
Wagner Moura
76.
- [51:23]
Amy Goodman
Something you know well. And now a president who was admiring of that dictatorship, authoritarian Jair Bolsonaro, is in prison for doing something that President Trump, you now live in Los Angeles, also was involved with as he attempted to overthrow the government in the election. Yeah, the election. And stopped. Why do you think he's in prison?
- [51:51]
Wagner Moura
I think that, you know, I have a theory. I'm not, you know, political theorist, but my theory is that because the same thing that happened in the U.S. the invasion of the capital happened in Brazil. It was the same thing. People invading the institutions and breaking things and all that. And that's because of their leaders. They were like. Bolsonaro and Trump were like, you should do that. The reason that in Brazil we acted really quickly to put Bolsonaro in jail, to find the financiers, everybody.
- [52:22]
Amy Goodman
He was called the Trump of the tropics.
- [52:23]
Wagner Moura
Yes, he was called the Trump of the tropics. But the reason that I think that Brazil did it so fast is that not because I think that Brazilian institutions are stronger than Americans, but I think that we in Brazil, we know what a dictatorship is. We know how harmful that is how horrible that is, how bad that is. That's my only explanation for the difference between. Because they were both election deniers, they both attempted against democracy. And Bolsonaro himself, he is in jail right now because he was found. He was found. A plot of a coup d' etat where he really, there wasit's written that the idea was to kill Lula and the Supreme Court Justice, Alexandre de Moraes. So that's basically why he is in jail right now. But I think when you mention climate, I think he should be in jail for that too, because he was responsible for many deaths during the pandemic in Brazil. Because, yeah, denying the pandemic, asking, saying people should go to the streets, work just a flu, don't worry about it, and didn't buy the vaccines on time. You know, that was something. That's something that we mentioned in the play.
- [53:40]
Keith Lamar
A bit.
- [53:41]
Mike DeWine
Little. Little bit.
- [53:42]
Amy Goodman
So, Wagner, my colleague Nermeen has a question for you from New York.
- [53:47]
Nermeen Shaikh
So, Wagner, just. Hi, Wagner. Just to turn to some of the work, your recent work, which has in fact focused on the dictatorship in Brazil, and Jair Bolsonaro. When you accepted the 2025 award for best Actor at the Cannes Film Festival, you actually thanked Bolsonaro, saying that without him, the film could not be made. And you've also talked about the extent to which, despite the fact that the dictatorship ended more than four decades ago, echoes of the dictatorship remain. And had it not been for the dictatorship, Bolsonaro may not have been elected at all. So if you could just elaborate on some of these questions.
- [54:31]
Wagner Moura
Yeah, we had in Brazil, where we had this dictatorship that took a long time, 20 years, from 64 to 85. And after the dictatorship, we had this thing called the Amnesty Law. The amnesty law was basically something that forgave. You know, let's start from zero. Let's not think about it anymore. Let's have a fresh moment. And then it basically forgave all the torturers, killers, and people that did despicable things to civilians after. During the dictatorship. And I think that was one of the worst things that could have happened in Brazil. Because now, talking about the play again, I think that the notion of truth, the truth is a very important historical landmark. If we erase the truth, we leave people, like, not really knowing. So was the dictatorship that bad? If everybody was, you know, if that was okay, then why we should care about democracy and why should we. And I think that Bolsonaro emerged in Brazil as a political force because of that amnesty law. Because if we didn't do. If we hadn't done that, people like him would never have appeared like a man who showed up as a far right figure. That in the beginning was kind of funny, but then he became like the president of Brazil. He dedicated. When Dilma Rousseff was impeached in that coup d' etat against her, he dedicated his vote to the man who tortured Dilma. And I think that these kind of things would never have happened if we hadn't had this amnesty law that maybe make people forget how horrible the dictatorship is. That's why I think it's important to keep doing films, to keep doing, you know, political issues at the work of the university, historians, journalists.
- [56:37]
Nermeen Shaikh
Well, could you say Wagner, exactly how was the dictatorship talked about after it concluded? You know, you also made that magnificent, your first film as a director, Marigold, which looks at really very closely the way in which dissidents were treated under the dictatorship. But it's also implied in the film that their opposition is not referred to as opposition, but as terrorism. And indeed that that might be what's taught also in schools. So how socially have Brazilians, politically, through education, been informed. Informed of theof what happened during the dictatorship? Yeah, now.
- [57:22]
Wagner Moura
Yeah. When I was a kid, when I went to school, when the books that I read was like, they didn't even say there was semantic changes. They didn't even say the coup d' etat of 64. They would say the revolution of 64 that saved Brazil of communism. That was the kind of stuff that I started when I was kid. That's why coming back again to the play and it was like this play, the reason that I decided to do this play was like to investigate the moment of truth nowadays, what is true. Because I believe that the truth as we know it is over. Especially now with the advance of technologies and the decline of journalism as a pillar of democracy. That's been going on. On forever. So when I was a boy, that was the kind of thing that I. That I was reading at school. That's why I think that my interest in the. In movements of resistance in Brazil is so strong, because we don't know much about it.
- [58:22]
Amy Goodman
Well, we want to talk about movements of resistance. We're going to do this in part two of our discussion. Right now we have to end the broadcast. Wagner Mora, the acclaimed Brazilian actor and filmmaker nominated for an Oscar for his performance in the Secret Agent, will come talk about that and post online@DemocracyNow.org, we're here in Edinburgh, where he's starring in the film a trial after an enemy of the people. That does it for our show. A very happy birthday to Anjali Comet and special thanks to Professor Adam Dixon and staff here at Panmore House. I'll be speaking at King's Theatre Tuesday. Check our website. And in London on Wednesday. I'm Amy Goodman with Nermeen Shaikh.